The Ringer NFL Show - Lombardi’s Week 11 Reactions | GM Street (Ep. 349)

Episode Date: November 20, 2018

Andy Reid and Sean McVay show their offensive prowess on 'Monday Night Football,' discuss the pace of play in the league, and hand out awards for the week. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to GM Street part of the Ringer Podcast Network. It is Tuesday. It is November 20th, and I am joined by the great Michael Lombardi. Historic performance last night. The narrative is out. People are saying this was the greatest NFL game of all time. You are the historian here on this program. Do you agree with that?

Is that true? Is that possible? You know, we've got a lot of games to pull from. You know, I don't know. It was certainly this generational game, and I think it was truly a big 12th. game that people have seemed to embrace this lack of defense. I mean, if the NBA is a three-point shooting league, the NFL is becoming a whoever gets to 51st wins league. And I think that this game

appeals to people because we see so much offensively. We see so much the ball up and down the field. And look, let's face it, both quarterbacks are playing really well. And I think what we admire the most is great quarterback play as football fans. Both those quarterbacks, that game last night, obviously Pat Mahomes and Jared Goff. Guys that people have had their eye on all season, obviously these two teams coming into the game. Mahomes throws six touchdowns. Jared Goff throws four touchdowns, including the big throw to Gerald, whatever, late in that game for 40 yards and the go-ahead touchdown with the 149 left.

The thing that we saw last night, Lombardi, right, just with these two guys is they are very sure of themselves and they are both stars. I mean, Todd Gurley was barely heard from last night. This was the Jared Goff show, and he came up big time. at home like he has been able to do in the past. You know, I think something was wrong with Gurley. He must have got rolled up. I mean, Brown had four carries in the game.

Gurley only had 12, which is not indicative. And usually Sean McBey wants to run the ball. And anytime Gurley carries it less than 17 times, the Rams have an opportunity to lose games. We know when he carries it over 17, he doesn't. And I think there was something wrong with Gurley or, you know, for whatever reason, they just lost sight of it. And, you know, it's not like the Chiefs were ever really stopping.

from running the football. I mean, the guy averaged four, six a carry. And so I don't know. I think there was something wrong with Gurley, but the reality of it is is they were able to make enough plays. I mean, look, it's a close game. It's a fun game.

But the reality is the chiefs have a chance to win this game, even though they had 13 penalties for 135 yards, Tate Fraser. I mean, the Buffalo Bills don't get 135 yards of offense. You know, the Arizona Cardinals don't get our 135 yards.

of offense. They gave up 135. The Jacksonville Jaguars do not get 135 yards of offense. Don't be picking on Blake. Don't be picking on Blake. God damn it. Anyway. And so, you know, and then they were minus three in the turnover takeaway column. And yet, in spite of all that, they're sitting there with a chance for the minute 50 to go in the game and three timeouts and can win the game. I mean, that just shows you exactly what's going on the way football is. But to me, great games to be qualified as a great game. I like the chess match, the strategy of a great game.

And in this game, I think it fell short. I mean, for example, when Kansas City gets the ball back with 633 in the game, and the Rams only have one timeout, and they run that fourth, and the Rams call the timeout their last time out before the fourth and two play. The Rams, the Chiefs run,

really just a tremendous play, a tremendous play, misdirection. It's got all sorts of variables to it. And they hit Kelsey over the middle and he gets the first out. Now, at that point in the game, I think there's four and change left to go. The chiefs don't adjust their thinking. They're in this, we got a score mentality when at that precise moment,

the game is about the clock as much as it about scoring. But of course, the chiefs don't give a shit, right? They march start marching right down the field. And of course, naturally, one of the biggest plays in the game never gets discussed. The Tye Hill helmet to helmet, which advanced stop the clock, it advanced the ball 10 more yards, was the greatest thing that could have ever happened to the ramps. Because A, it saved 40 seconds, okay, because Harris got tackled in bounds. It saved 40 seconds, which the way people that listen to Grid Iron Genius must think,

40 seconds is at least six plays. Okay. So it saved the Rams six plays. and it moved the ball closer to the goal line and of course naturally the chief scored the very next player the play after and got the ball in the end zone. So that play there never mentioned.

Never mentioned. We were too busy talking about, you know, the swim moves by the three technique. And then the Rams get the ball back to, Frazier with, you know, with now their objective is we got to score, but we also got to take some of these timeouts away from the chiefs, right? You know?

Yep. And what do the Rams do? They don't give a shit. They score and the Chiefs get the ball back with all three of their timeouts. And, of course, nobody's talking game management. I mean, just Bella and I are sitting there watching it. And Bella's looking at me like, is somebody going to pay attention to the clock here? I mean, you know, and the Chiefs get the ball with 150 to go and have a chance to win the game.

And it takes just a ridiculous play for them to win, for them to not win. And then they still have another chance to get the ball back to win the game. It's just remarkable. So for me, great games have to have to have some kind of strategy, and I didn't see that last night. Yeah, the strategy in this game, it seemed obviously it was just, it was a shootout all the way across the board, and you mentioned that.

So this is the first time in NFL history we have a game with both teams scoring 50 points, 1,000 and 1 yards combined in this game, which is pretty impressive. And Lombardi, I have to ask you, I mean, do you know what the, this was not the highest scoring game in NFL history, despite that? And I wanted to see, do you remember what? what game that was. Everyone's saying this is the future of football,

but this happened a long, long time ago. Well, you know, I don't know. I mean, I remember the Redskins played the Packers in Lambo and it was like 48. I mean, it was one of those kind of games,

but obviously that doesn't, that doesn't beat the, tell me, Dave Frazier, give me a little history lesson. I need it. You were good. The Redskins were in this game.

It was the Redskins and the Giants. Nine touchdowns of this one of 30 yards or more. Pretty wild game. The Redskins beat the Giants at this one, 72 to 41. So 113 points in total there. This is where we're going with football, obviously. The NFL wants Big 12 football.

Everybody seems to like it. But I do think that if Bill Parcells was watching last night, you know, he would be saying, you know, you got to play the game in a different way. I mean, I kept watching the game last night. And every time Tyree Kill made a play, I looked down at my phone and I was expecting a call from Al Davis saying, oh, fuck. Why isn't he on my phone? fucking team. Mr. Davis, well, you know, he got caught with, he completed guilty to domestic violence. He got thrown off the team in Oklahoma State. He got thrown off the track and the football team. I don't give a fuck click. And then that would have been the end of that conversation. But then again,

when he made another play, it would have been, oh, fuck. Why isn't he on our team, you know, and go from there? So, I mean, I wrote about this for the athletic today, Tate Fraser. If the New York Giants called the Kansas City Chiefs and offered Odell Beckham Jr. signed. to a contract, straight up for Tyree Kill, not signed to an extension, the chiefs would laugh at him. But that's because he is a complete game breaker, and we keep seeing that over and over again. You know, after that game, I mentioned that Redskins game, the coach at the time, Otto Graham, when he got to the press conference, he joked it was a great defensive battle. I think that's sort of become the punchline of this game, but we have to point out Aaron Donald,

the defensive player of the year. I mean, he gets his 14, he's got 14 and a half sacks on the year, two force fumbles in this game, a Bucon picks one of those up and takes it back for a touchdown. But, I mean, he was an absolute force up the middle for that Rams defense. And as much as this game was an offensive game, I mean, Pat Mahom set it after the game. He said, I gave up 21 points, and you can't do that against a team like that. But I think this, too, Tate Fraser, I think this is another important aspect when I'm watching the game is conditioning, right? Aaron Donald was sensational in the first half.

His presence in the second half, yeah, the chiefs did some things to try to take him out. But the Rams defense got tired. There's no doubt about it. And what I don't think fans truly understand is when you play so much man to man, you know, you're a basketball guy too. When you play fast break, your basketball players take a break, right? How many times have you watched a receiver run a nine route? And after the route's over, incomplete, he sticks his hand up in the air and says,

and says, you know, I need a break. But the DB's got to stay on the field and keep covering, right? Like, you can't play man to man constantly 60 minutes and play effectively. You can't rush the passer 50 snaps and be effective on the 50th one as you were on the first one. You just can't do it. You're conditioning. And what happens in the NFL so often is teams that don't condition, especially in November and December, conditioning really matters. And I thought it was last night.

You know, we kept seeing people go into the locker room. I saw Brandon Cooks go in there. I saw Ty Hill go in there. And, you know, we've got bugger down there on the field, got Lisa Salter down there on the field. Yeah, we're not getting in information. They were getting IVs in a lot. locker room. I mean, this was an exhausting game. This pace of the game exhaust players. I mean, there's no way either one of these teams would be able to practice until at least Thursday of this

week, and it would be a light walkthrough if they didn't have a buy. I mean, that game took so much out of them. And you have to understand conditioning is so important. I mean, Tyreek Hill's conditioning is fucking remarkable. He never gets tired. He's faster on the 60th. He's faster on the 60th. play as he is on the first play. And do you have a corner that stays that in that kind of shape? I mean, think about it. You know, football's a game of pad level. Football's a game of leverage.

Football's a game of those things. And when you're tired, like boxers, their hands go down. Well, football players, when they're tired, they're leverage. They lose their leverage. And all of a sudden, they get their asses whooped. That's to me the other thing that I noticed in the game. Of course, you know, nobody's talking about conditioning because it's not, it's not on people, the tip of the tongue.

But the interesting thing to me with that, Lombardi, too, is this game was supposed to be played in altitude, played in Mexico City on condition. You know, is that game completely and drastically different if we play it outside of Los Angeles? Because it seems like it could have been. It could have been maybe a low-scoring game. And you deal with some of that conditioning stuff on the front end

just because of the altitude. I would say without a doubt, if the game were played in Mexico City, I think some players would have not been able to come back in, whether they had the IV or not. I think it would have affected the depth of the game. And also, I think the game would have probably been in the high 30s. I don't think it would have gotten to the 50s.

I think there's no doubt that game would have changed dramatically based on altitude. And let's talk about a guy also in this game that made a difference. I mean, we talked about people wearing down. But Bucom gets the two touchdowns, you know, one of a fumble recovery. And then he also, you know, in the last play, I mean, he gets to the first Mahomes pick late in the fourth quarter when they're trying to come back. I mean, he's the one that gets the hand right on. the homes, he dives, gets around Travis Kelsey, and that ball floats up. And then, you know, ironically enough, Marcus Peters, a guy that was on the chiefs just last year and gets traded in

March. He's on the receiving end of that. And he said, all he said was, you know, don't drop that motherfucker. And he caught it. And from there, I mean, the Rams, it seemed at the time had the game sealed, but still, they were not able to manage the clock. And that's the other stuff I want to ask you about. So the touchdown that Goff throws, you mentioned the Rams scoring too quickly, he throws a 40-yard pass, which is a beautiful pass there, and they go down and Everett scores that touchdown. But they give them that time. But that was, once again, that's what McVeigh is good at. He makes those big throws. He goes on first and second down. So that's a good thing about McVeigh. But he's a lot like Andy Reid. And we saw these guys both

kind of, they can shoot themselves in the foot a little bit because they are so offensive-minded and they're so good at making people play left-handed that, but when they need to stretch out a game, they don't necessarily want to call it that way. At first and 10 at the Can City 40 with a minute 56 to go in the game is when golf throws the 40-yard touchdown pass to Everett. At that precise moment, I'm thinking in my head is you've got to run the ball here. You've got to start the clock. And if you run the ball there, you're going to at least Andy's going to make a decision.

Do I take a time out or do I let this thing play out? You've got to put some pressure on Andy. See, this game, the clock was never part of the equation. And both teams and all everybody's talking about will be the scoring of the game, but the mismanagement and the technical aspect of how play selections affect game management. I mean, that first and 10 call should have been a run. It should have been a control pass. You could have come back to the big play to Everett.

You could have set that up with another down. Now, it obviously hit and the Rams won. And look, I'm not taking anything away from McVeigh's brilliance as a play caller and all that. But as a game manager, he had to think to himself, oh, shit. We're up by three points and they got three timeouts. And all they need is a field goal to get this thing into overtime. Maybe I should have milked the clock a little bit, right? And then he got bailed out by.

He hits his arm. But I mean, that doesn't belie the point. And then not to be outdone when he goes back and he throws it on, when he throws it on the second and 11 and he gives the chief another timeout again. By not running it there, he gives the chief five, the chief's five more plays because they get their timeout back. He's giving them five plays. So instead of looking at it that way,

just look at it as we're passing plays across the field over. Here's five plays, Andy, you can have them. And we know that, A, field position doesn't matter in these games anymore. Fucking scratch field position. It's non-existent. It's like the whole conversation,

why did Belichick go for it with, when Peyton Manning, when he threw the flat to Kevin Falk? Because what Belichick was saying, it's like, field position doesn't matter. They're going to have the ball back here. in like three minutes anyway, in three seconds anyway.

So it's inevitable. You know, and so field position doesn't matter. And yet, you know, you give them those times. You give them plays matter. Plays matter. And you gave them five plays by just throwing the ball there. These are two larger things I want to take from this game that we can stretch this a bit further with all this stuff and what it kind of means moving forward for the

rest of the season. But the first thing I want to ask you about Thursday night football when we start week 11, we have Aaron Rogers. He has a fourth and two. he's in Seattle territory. Mike McCarthy says, I'm going to trust my defense. I'm going to punt it back to Russell Wilson. Russell Wilson is a game manager, but also a superstar quarterback.

So he knows that he's going to milk that clock and make sure they don't ever get that Aaron Rogers never touches the ball again. And the interesting thing to me is that Andy Reid does trust, you know, and lets Mahomes go for it on that fourth and two. It's a big play to Kelsey that you brought up earlier. So we see that happen. And you see the philosophy is so different. tweet an old school guy like Mike McCarthy and what Andy Reed and Shaw McVay and even like people like Doug Peterson and maybe even Frank Reich and some of these other guys, Matt Nagy for sure, that would go for it on fourth and two. So we have a clash of style. So when we get to the

playoffs, you're going to have some of these teams like maybe a John Harbaugh and the Ravens. You know, don't go for it on fourth and three. But, you know, Andy Reed and Doug Peterson are going for it every time. So it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. And if you're Aaron Rogers, how upset to you when you watch Andy Reid believe him homes and you have to sit on the sideline? Yeah, I mean, look, I wrote about it today for the athletic. I wrote that this old school thinking of game management, this old school thinking that the defense is going to get me the ball back has got to stop. I mean, it's just not happening. You're not watching the same game I'm watching. You're not watching this at all. Like, you have to win the games with your offense. Offense is what

wins game. I've been talking about this now on this podcast for a while. The reason Bill Wals was so effective on the road was because his offense was able to do that. You know? And so I think to me, if you're going to be Mike McCarthy and you're going to operate as if it's 1990 and you think you're going to get the ball back because they're going to run three dives, you're living in a different world. You're not living in reality. And I think that that's the biggest problem of all time. And you've got to change your thinking. The column that I wrote, Tate Fraser, I wrote as if like when you're in the NFL, you're watching games you know, you're sitting at your desk watching games.

You're thinking about your, you're evaluating players, but you're also evaluating your team. How does my team match up to their team, right? And Al Davis was huge on this. He loved this. He always wanted to have a matchup board. So in my computer, I always had how our team ranked in the AFC West against the other teams.

And so our free safety against, you know, their free safety, you know, we have the fourth best free safety, the chargers, let's say, have the first best. And you just go down there and you total points up and see how it goes. Sparky Anderson, the former baseball manager of the Cincinnati Reds, used to do this all the time in baseball. He would give his, he would give power points to the positions and then he would rank it. So when you're watching tape, you're always evaluating how does my team rank here? So that's one. But you're also watching like, where's the trends of the game going? And the game is very clearly going in a direction where we can't play good enough defense to be able to get the ball back.

And, you know, the other day on Twitter, you know, some fan was like some, some, Bears guy was like, I was more upset with you because you called the Bears a situational defense as opposed to Mitchell Tribesky. I mean, seriously, like, that's the only way you play defense in the NFL is situational defense. Like, there is no great defense in the NFL, including the fucking Bears, okay? Yeah. Like, they're a situational defense.

They play from in front. They got a great pass rusher. They got a humongous human being inside named Akeem Hicks, who we should have to go from the Patriots. Meanwhile, back on that later. You know, and they can dominate the game because when they play from in front, they can do it.

When they play from behind like they did in the Patriot games, they're not exactly the same defense. So, like, that's just, that's not a knock. That's a compliment. And so you've got to understand, you got to play. If you're Mike McCarthy, you don't even have a good situational defense. You got a shitty defense. like what am I playing to?

Like what am I playing to? And then he made that comment like, well, the numbers back me up. What fucking numbers are he looking at? I love doing the whole narrative stuff with you. And we used to do it last year, Sunday nights. But we're so deep into it down on Tuesdays that we just read everything that comes out. And this game after last night, everyone is, this is the face of the NFL. These are the two teams that the NFL would love to see in a high-octane offense Super Bowl.

Pat Mahomes versus Jared golf, two young quarterbacks, two likable guys, two really big-time players. The confidence that Jared Goff has in his third year, as opposed to what we saw his rookie year, is tenfold. But these two teams play the same way. So what happens in the playoffs? Let's say the Seahawks get the wild card. What happens in that game if McVeigh does the three-and-out thing, and Russell Wilson does get the ball back? And Russell and Bustle comes down, and he doesn't just get a field goal to tie the game. He throws a late touchdown to Doug Baldwin.

And they win a game like that because Pete Carroll does not. He's not going to coach and play the exact. Like Andy Reid and Sean McVay were both hurting, simultaneously hurting themselves, but also playing into the hands of the other guy because they coached and are doing pretty much similar things. But there's going to be teams in the playoffs that will be able to be smart enough to stretch a game out and take away some of those possessions.

And that's what I want to see when it gets tight, because it's one thing to see these two teams play each other, but they play the same way. So to get them to play a contrasting style, I think is more of it. an interesting proposition for the playoffs because I think people watch this game last night. They're like, these offenses are amazing. Look at these defensive stars. These teams are going to be in the Super Bowl. Not to say that they won't be in the Super Bowl, but teams will, they play

into each other's hands entirely throughout this game and teams will play them differently. And that's what I'm excited to see once we get down to the nitty gritty in the playoffs. Hey, Tate Frazier, that's 1,000 percent correct. There's no way that someone, I mean, if Bill Parcells was watching, if he stayed awake for it last night, he's probably sitting there thinking, these guys, you can't play a track meet versus a track meet team. Yep. You got to slow this game down. You're a basketball guy.

You understand it because you see basketball and you hear those coaches talk about pace of the game. Hey, we got to play this game in the 50s to win it style. And I don't think the fans truly comprehend that. I mean, for both teams, look, the Patriots did it very clearly. The Patriots had no interest in playing. I mean, even though the scores. were huge, even though they were, you know, even though they were, you know, both teams were able to move the ball up and down the field and yada, yada, yeah, y, and it went back and forth. The reality of the

game was that the Patriots, you know, it's 43 to 40, but the Patriots were not wanted to play as different pace. They were, they were convinced they needed, they ran the ball 38 times in the game. They wanted pace. Now, they gave up 40 points, but they wanted pace. And I think other coaches, I know Sean Peyton will want to have a better pace if he played the Rams, again, if he plays the Saints, if he plays the Chiefs in the Super Bowl, they would

want pace. And I think good head coaches will set up their game plan to have a pace where in all three phases, we'll understand what the pace of the game will be. And we're going to keep an eye on that moving forward. I mean, a lot of teams, you know, as you see in professional sports, when teams do things that are

flashy and they turn heads of fans and they give viewers, people We'll try to copy that and emulate that. But like we said, these are the two teams that play a little bit of Canadian football and definitely play Battleship Defense terms we like to use here on GM Street. But at the end of the day, it was very impressive to see those young guys, Mahomes, golf, and then, you know, to see a superstar like Aaron Donald be out there and make those kind of big plays on Monday night football. We're going to take a break right now. We're going to come back on the other side of this. We're going to do performances from the week 11 that jumped out to Lombardi.

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That's fendool.com slash the ringer. New users only, bonus not available for withdrawal. State and age restrictions apply. For full eligibility rules and terms and conditions, go to fandul. com back to GM Street. All right, we're back and this is in our week 11 special. I mean, there were so many games, so many talking points. As we get to this part of the season, you know, things matter more than they may have mattered in September because we're getting right in Thanksgiving.

It is Feast Week, Lombardi. So a lot of college basketball going on in the world. But a lot of NFL talk as well. And when we talk about headlines in the NFL guy that always draws headlines, the Clapper. And of course, the Clapper's fervent leader, and that is Jerry Jones and his cowboys go down to Atlanta. And they get a nice little win, a nice field goal win for them, 22 to 19. He was very excited after the game. He was, according to reports that were put out, he was going in the locker room.

Do you see this Lombardy, and he was doing the Rick Flair. Woo! He was doing that all in the locker room. So Jerry Jones is back. The NFC East Race has been a rollercoaster to say to least. It keeps going up and down. And then, you know, unfortunately, Alex Smith goes down with a season-in-y injury, you know, does the wave goodbye on the cart, and Colt McCoy is now the guy there.

So that race is completely open, and we saw the Cowboys get a night. win on the road. Just looking at this one, Lombardi. We can talk about the Falcons a little bit here also. They hold out Dion Jones in this game, thinking that they could beat the Cowboys without him. That was not the right choice. And again, the Cowboys get a nice road win. Yeah, I mean, I thought the Cowboys defensive front play great. I thought their defensive line dominated the game. They put a lot of pressure on Matt Ryan, and Matt wasn't comfortable. He was sack three times. And look, this is the formula the Cowboys have to play with. They were finally good on third down again. I mean, this is what they're back to, they were back to the 2016 Cowboys.

really effective. They're 54% on third down. They controlled the football almost 32 minutes. They were able to run Zeke. They utilized Zeke. And I think for cowboy fans, what's coming down the road for you is, and it's good for GM Street, because we're a big supporter is, I think a couple more wins and they win the east. We're going to get a clapper extension. And could there, I mean, there'd be nothing better than that, Tate Frazier. Clap on, clap off. The clapper. I got the star on my chest right now. I'm rooting for it. I mean, I think it is. And, you know, look, the Falcons, the Falcons offensive line played like crap in the game. And, you know, their defense played as well as they can, considering the injuries and all that.

And they had an opportunity. They scored too early. They scored to tie the game up. And you just knew they were going to get beat late in the game. And it happened on them. So look, but I think the key thing here is the Falcons only had eight possessions in the game. This is the pace and style that the Cowboys have to play. The Cowboys are not a track meet team.

They're not going to play that game. They play this way, limit opponents to a number of possessions. I mean, the Falcons only had the ball 10 minutes in the second half in the game. So they did a nice job in that area. And you got to hand it to the clap. He's on a two-game win streak. And he's got Colt McCoy coming into town. And while we're here, I think you're going to underestimate Colt McCoy here a little bit.

Now, look, I had a shitty week last week picking games. I was a fucking disaster, okay? It was horrendous. I got screwed by your Panthers. Ron Rivera. We'll talk about that later. You know, I got screwed by the falcons. We'll talk about that later.

And, you know, the Eagles never showed up. In a do-or-die game, the Eagles decided to play their shittiest game of the year, right? So anyway, back to the – meanwhile, back at the ranch, I think Colt McCoy gives the Redskins a better chance than Alex Smith. Only for this reason. I think Alex Smith was a system quarterback for Andy Reid, Utah, West Coast college offense. But I don't think Jay Gruden really understood what Alex Smith could do well. And he was trying to fit Alex Smith into his Redskin offense.

That doesn't work. I think Colt McCoy can work. Now, I don't think Colt McCoy can last for 16 games. He doesn't have the body for it. But I think he can last for six games, seven games. And I think they'll throw the ball more effectively in Washington than they did with Alex Smith. It's still going to come down to can they run the ball and can they play great defense. And that's what beat the Cowboys the last time they played them.

That's going to have to be the formula as they move forward. And we did see on Sunday. I mean, that Texans team does get a win on the road going against the Redskins. But a lot of people were talking about this one. happened. But, you know, 33 years since the Joe Thaisman injury when Lauren Taylor came around and took him out and, you know, it was very sad to see Alex Smith go out in this game with that gruesome injury. But like you said, I mean, Colt McCoy is a guy that has been around the block. You know, for people that don't remember, Colt McCoy was the one that, you know,

Marcel Darius knocked out of the national title game. And, you know, who knows in a revisionist world, you know, if the Texas Longhorns and Mack Brown and all those five stars have Colt McCoy, you know, they may win that national championship in the Nick Sabin era. is a totally different talking point. But back to the current times, Colt McCoy is a guy that, you know, like,

kind of is a lot like Case Keenum that way, right, Lombardi, like he can come into a game and he knows what he's supposed to do with the football, basically protect the football, and he does have an arm

and can make the throws. I mean, he is a professional quarterback. No doubt. I think, and he, and the thing that gives him the biggest advantage is he's comfortable with Jay Grude,

and Jay Gruden's comfortable with him. Yep. And I think Jordan Reed's comfortable with them. And I think, they're going to have to find ways to manufacture points. There's no doubt. Their defense has got to create turnovers. They've got to be able to play a certain style,

much like what the Cowboys style has to play. But don't underestimate Colt McCoy making some throws in this game. And if the Cowboys think this is going to be an easier game because the backup quarterback, Colt McCoy went in there and beat them on a Thursday night a couple years ago. And I wouldn't be surprised if they played well in this game. I think the line got up to eight and a half. It's starting to come down a little bit. But the Redskinned defense will be a good defense.

They'll play the run effectively, and they'll put pressure on DAC to make plays in the passing game. And I just think Colt gives them a little bit better of advantage than Alex Smith, even though most people think Alex Smith does. I just don't see it that way. And we must be honest, Lombardy. You know this, you know, having a family down in Texas right now. But when guys from Texas play in Texas and if they're playing football, sometimes they just play

a little differently. You know, it's like point guards playing in New York. It's just a little bit of more cachet, a little more. confidence. And, you know, like you said, Colts already gone into Dallas and gotten a win before. So that'll be fun to watch. We'll keep an eye on Washington. And that NFC East race in general has been crazy. A race that, you know, a lot of people were excited, you know, to see at the start of the season before the New Orleans Saints went wild. The NFC South and the Panthers really just, you know, dropped the ball this week. They've fallen out pretty much no chance at this point to win the NFC South unless something drastic happens with that loss of Detroit. The big storyline in this one, Riverboat Run added again,

the Panthers decided to go for two and go for the win instead of going for the tie. You know, a lot of opinions going back and forth on this one. You know, people still think, you know, staff could have had some time to get in field goal range, possibly for the Lions. But regardless, as you said, Lombardi, this was a bad loss for a team that has struggled to find an identity on the road. Again, you know, their road win that sticks out that people remembered, you know, that sort of trick people in the thing of they're, they could. could be a good road team was that comeback against Philadelphia.

We can talk about Philadelphia a little bit later when we talk about the Saints. But in this one, Lombardi, first off, your thoughts on the decision to go for two. That's an old sports thing, you know, go for the win on the road. But it didn't work out for Riverboat Run. And now that Panthers team is reeling a little bit. Not too much, but they're reeling a little bit. No doubt. I didn't like the decision.

I mean, there was too much time to go in the game. The Lions had two timeouts. There was still a minute. And even so let's play it out. Let's go forward. Let's use false duality instead of A or B. Let's go to C, D and E. So let's say they score and they make it 21 to 20.

Now the mindset of the Lions is simply this. We've got to score or we lose. So they don't give a shit about anything, about preserving the clock. They don't give a shit about anything other than scoring. If the score is 20 to 20, Matt Patricia's thinking to himself, okay, I don't want to give the ball back to the Panthers. I got to utilize the clock a little bit here. I got to make sure I'm conservative in my approach, but yet have the ability to try to kick this field goal to win the game. I'm a little bit reticent to not go full force.

So my mindset's different. If I'm behind, I got a completely different shape of mine. Okay. I'm going all out. So that, to me, even if they scored the two point, I think it actually would have hurt them because it would have changed the way the lions approached the game. Now, you could say, well, the Panthers could have intercepted a ball. The Lions would have made a mistake. Yeah.

dealing with Matt Prater, who's a really good long-distance field goal kicker. And the whole notion that you didn't want Graham Ganoe to kick an extra point, even though he had a horrendous day, there's something must be going on in the water at Ford Field because Mason Crosby sucked it off up there and then Graham Ganoe, who's never missed a kick this year outside of 40 yards, including 50-yarders. So he had a bad day. I didn't like the decision. I thought when you handicapped the game, the Panthers did exactly what I thought they would do. They moved the ball effortlessly up and down the field. They converted third downs.

They didn't put the ball in the end zone. They missed the field. I mean, DJ Moore gets tackled. He was like, it looked like me running out there. You know, like, get in the fucking end zone, bro. Like, you're a fast guy. It was a lot of, it was a lot of that in this game. I mean, Moore did lead the Panthers in this game.

You know, seven catches, 157 yards and a touchdown. I think the biggest stories are what you just brought up. I mean, Graham Ganoe, 34-yard field goal that he missed. You know, obviously, that comes back to bite you when you lose a game by one point. So a lot of people are pointing to that. and, you know, this is a person, you know, a guy that made a big kick earlier in the year against the Giants. So you've seen both sides of that. So, but once again, you know, a kicker is a storyline, which is pretty interesting, especially if you're Dave Tobe or you're any of these special team guys, a lot of errors, you know, randomly coming up.

And another guy that is making a lot of mistakes that people are pointing to, even though he is, you know, well known around the building as a constant great teammate, you know, Funches is just really struggled. He had an awful game in this one, four drop passes. Horrible. Oh, my God. and a chance to have a touchdown that he drops. And, you know, people start pointing the finger at Cam. But, you know, he is, again, you know, he's a lot of the running game. And when you have guys that are open dropping balls, you know, it's tough to overcome that. You know, you would think Funches would, you know, he's a, he's a Michigan kid.

You would think he would have played his best game back there. Yeah. You know, and he played his worst game. I mean, he was killing me. There's one I lost there. You know, the Houston Texans, you know, I watched that game. I'm like, how am I going to lose this game? How are the Texans not going to win by a touchdown?

And yet, you know, Their kicker misses a field goal, you know, a chip shot field goal in that game, too. So I lost that one. And, you know, they turned the ball over, like, ridiculously, like stupid turnovers on a screen pass. They get a turnover. So, you know, it's one of those days where I made horrible picks, but I looked at the games and I'm like, shit, other than the Eagle game, which we'll talk about in a second

here, that really wasn't bad. But let's talk about the Colts. As it relates to the Eagles, I think these two games go hand in hand. What we're seeing from the Colts is unbelievable. their offensive line is playing well. Luck's standing on his two feet. I think what Frank. I mean, they're all been great.

I mean, they've all been good up front. I mean, my man Gooch, the line coach there, has done a great job. They've done a good job on third down. And what people don't seem to realize is, you know, Frank Wright ran the third down in Philadelphia last year for the Eagles. And the third down magic that used to exist on Broad Street no longer exist anymore. It's in Indianapolis. You know, and so they're converting third downs at an unbelievable.

pace. Their defense plays hard. And look, I've said it all along. They play great in a dome. They're a good turf team. They're a good dome team. They get after the quarterback. They were able to stop the running game of the Titans. And, you know, they got the quarterback. Mariotta got hurt again after he was sacked four times. The speed of their defense was impressive. I think this cult team, I said at the beginning of the year, and I got off of them, but I think because of the schedule and because of the way they're coaching, I think Frank Wright has done an unbelievable job. I mean, talk about coach of the year performance. Remember, last year the Colts were in so many games into the fourth quarter.

They had a chance to win so many games and they just couldn't do it. They couldn't put games away. And they lost them. This year, it started out the same way. Had the Bengal game, they're driving, they turn it over. I mean, the only game they're not in is the Patriots game on Thursday. All the other games, they got a chance to win on the final drive of the game. And you talk about growth and you talk about scripting out plays.

And you can see it even, you know, Frank Reich, you look at that Eagles team last year. everyone wants to point to the Philly special play. You know, he calls that in the game this week. Eric Ebron, you know, barely, you know, misses on a toss to Andrew Luck. But you see the creativity. And you know, for, you know, just as NFL fans, people that were watching Andrew Luck early in his career, the knock was, it was always slow starts. And it seemed like Andrew Luck, you know, they would be down 24 to 3. And it was on him to make a miraculous comeback.

But Frank Reich is calling these games. He's putting these guys in easy spots. He's letting Andrew Luck make, you know, simple throws to guys like Eric Ebron to the tight ends. And then when you have a guy like T.Y. Hilton, it's sort of the same thing as, you know, Tyree Kill, where if you have a game breaker, a guy that single-handedly can get open at any point in game, then Andrew Luck, you know, can make easy and early throws. And then once the game, you know, opens up a bit, Frank Reich's not afraid to make big calls. And I think you're totally right. I mean, you talk about values in which you lose when you win a Super Bowl. Frank Reich is, to me, just watching this Colts team in the past four weeks, I've been really impressed. It looks like the Andrew Luck. We always hope. he would be when he was the number one pick. So that's kudos to the Colts. Yeah, and transition into the Saints game. I mean, here are the Eagles. They can't convert a damn third down. So the eagle game, I mean, so the score is 48 to 7 and it's a blowout, right? It's a little bit like the Redskin game on Monday night. It's a close game until the safety for the Redskin

Nicholson had the stupid penalty on him and then he missed the tackle. But this is a, so it's 17 to seven and the Eagles have the ball late in the second quarter and they're driving down the field. They have a third and two. And I don't know. know what the Eagles, they ran, a really shitty play action pass. And it would have drove Al Davis crazy because, you know, Al Davis hated play action passes that never really held the linebackers. He never wanted play action passes that, that, you know, we're just like, you just pretend your hand in the ball off, but everybody knows it's a pass, right? It's like, why would we do that? That's dumb, you know? And so they ran one of those, and, of course, Wensk gets sacked and they get

kicked, because they were in four-down territory right there, right? They were in four-down territory. They got a chance to, you know, go into halftime 17-14, and the Saints get the ball back to start the third quarter, but at least you got a chance to put some points on the board. But naturally, you know, they run, they get sacked and they get taken out of field goal range. And you know what happens, Tate Fraser? Yep.

You know, now it becomes fourth and 13, and it's 24-7. And then it becomes 31-7. And the game's over now. You know, it's the Peyton Manning effect. You know, they scored 14 points. when the Eagles had no chance at score in any points. And they put the game away. Now the game's over.

Now the game is over effectively with 1120 to go in the game. The game's over. So, I mean, for me, it was one of those where I just, you know, and I look at this Eagle team and I'm thinking, desperate teams, when you're a desperate team, you've got to play better than that, right? You're fighting, scratching, and clawing. And all week long, because I live in the Philadelphia area, You know, I watch the evening news here.

All week long, they talked about how great a practices they have and how the players' attentions were focused, and they thought they would really play a great game. And like a fucking idiot, I bought into it. You know, I'm thinking, okay, they're backs through the wall. They're going to come out and really fight. Shit, it wasn't even a game. Take Frazier.

Never listen to practice reports because they get 20 minutes, and it's whatever they see out there. It's sort of a, we're going to get to Lamar Jackson in a second, but, you know, he wasn't practicing because of an illness. And, you know, it was getting reported that our, G3 may start, even though Lamar came out there and started. But I do want to point to what you were saying about the Saints. I think the big takeaway for a lot of people from this game is, one, if you're playing in that dome in New Orleans, you can lose a game in the first quarter.

You know, like you said, it's a compounding effect. If they get ahead early on in these games and Michael Thomas is rolling and Drew Breeze is throwing the ball around and you're making mistakes turning the ball over and you can't get anything on third down, you might as well kiss a goodbye because it's pretty much over with at this point. This Saints team is rolling. And if you just watch the interviews after the game, I mean, you were saying the Eagles were saying how much they're jelling together. You listen to Mark Engroma and Camara and Thomas and Drew Brees talk about this team.

And Sean Payton, of course, they all seem to be on the same page. And they're obviously clicking and rolling. And then you see a rookie like Traquan Smith. I mean, he gets 10 to 13 targets, 157 yards in the score. And you're not even thinking about Traquan Smith. and Camara had a girly game here. He didn't really do too much for him, and they still dominated and blew out the Eagles.

So once again, the Saints make a statement. And who do you think the finger, when does the finger pointing start on offense with Carson Wins and the Eagles? I mean, obviously a lot of injuries. Kelsey goes down. Two more corners go down. Tate Fisher, they don't have that many injuries. Look, they don't have speed.

They don't, no one is worried about the Eagles. I've said this all year on the podcast. Nobody's worried about the Eagles taking the top off the defense. They don't have anybody that you're, worried. I mean, look, I love Alshon Jeffrey, but he's a jump ball receiver. He's always going to be in a crowd. Okay. And they've got, they're a basketball team that has way too many small forwards. You know, Golden Tate needs to play in the slot. Jordan Matthews needs to play in the slot. So does Nelson Aguilar. They all need to play in the slot. Their offensive lines not playing

nearly as good. And they don't have a running back. I mean, they can kid themselves into thinking that Josh Adams is going to be a great back. But nobody's worried about Josh Adams, beating him. Josh Adams needs to get the ball. He's not great in past protection. So, I mean, they start the game off. The script, the famous script of Philadelphia, three and out, down seven nothing, come back out on the field. Famous script again, three and out. Okay.

Now I'm down 10 nothing, come back out, two plays interception. I mean, seriously. Like, they don't have any, they don't have, everybody's looking at their defense, which certainly has its issues. But their offense sucks. They don't have any skilp. They don't have any juice. They don't have any, and then their offensive line isn't very good.

And Wince, I don't think Wince's, I don't think Wence is. arm feels good. Like I just watch him. He always wears a sleeve. Like, I know he can throw the ball from here to Topeka, Kansas, but like, it just doesn't look right to me. Like, there's something there. Like, I don't know if he's got tendonitis in his elbow. Again, it just doesn't look right. The ball seems to sail high on him. I don't know if it's the knee, but something ain't right there with the kid. And he's a better player than he's played. And he's taking big shots. I mean, you talk about the offensive line. I mean, he is running for his life. And it does seem a little bit like last year, as far as play calling, if you want to point to Frank Reich, you know,

they still had the reins on Carson and they were making play calls to make him, you know, have some easy throw. Sort of, you know what, it's a scheme to get someone open, a scheme to get him out of the pocket and get him some free room. And now, you know, he's taking the brunt of, you know, all this stuff. I mean, it's third and 12 people were expecting Carson wins to make a wonderful play. Like you did so many times last year. But like you said, when you don't have the separation on the back end, I mean, Alshon

Jeffrey, to me, and I mean, you can correct me if I'm wrong here. I mean, he kind of reminds me of just a Hakeem Nix type guy where he can't have his big moments, his big games, but as he gets older, there will be less and less separation, sort of what we saw with Des. No doubt. He can still go get the ball like he did last year, but I mean, I know this sounds crazy, but they don't have Tori Smith on the outside that you have to worry about. They don't have anybody that you're worried about outside.

So people pack the middle of the field against them. They have no real running game. People want the Eagles to run the ball. But the reality of it is, is who are you? you worried about running the ball? And then they can't convert third downs at this record pace. So, and then their defense can't play from in front because they're always behind. They've scored 21 points in the first quarter. It goes on and on and on. So, you know, can we talk about the, can we talk about the Steelers and the Jags game? My favorite stat from this game is that,

you know, Ben Rothensberger not too long ago. I guess it was two weeks ago at this point. He had a perfect pass-er rating, right? Lombardi, remember this? At one point late in this game in the first half. He had a pass a rating of 1.7. So at least, at least Blake is rubbing off on his opponents in the AFCs. You know, that's the best thing I think he's doing, right, for this team? This was one of the Blake's finest hour. First of all, let me just say this. Okay. I don't give a fuck what anybody tells me. Okay, I'm done listening to anybody, all right? This is it. I'm done with this one now. Okay, they've done, I don't give a fuck. What comes out of Jacksonville, what Tom Kaufflin says what the great David Calwell has to offer.

I don't give a fuck, right? I don't care. They went into this game basically saying, we hate our quarterback and he's not going to beat us. We're going to do everything in our power to make sure he doesn't fuck us up. Okay? That's what they did. I don't give a shit what anybody says.

Okay. Watch the tape. That's what they said. Okay. And so they managed them the entire game. And they couldn't even keep them from beating themselves. So they get this great lead. They're playing defense.

for the first time that they played defense all season like they did last year. Great game by Ramsey. Ramsey had that beautiful pick on Antonio Brown in the end zone. They're all playing great. I mean, Miles Jack looks like the Miles Jack. I mean, they're playing fucking awesome, right? Okay. So, but of course, naturally Blake, you know, they're trying to run for net, you know,

two plays and have Blake throw crossers and of course Blake runs for first down. But to me, here, so they got this lead and it's 16, it becomes 16 to 6. We start the fourth quarter, okay? Jacksonville starts the fourth quarter. They go with three and out. Okay, no big deal. They got a third and 11, and Bortles throws the check down for seven. Okay, now the Steelers come back.

Jacksonville, great job, holds them again. And not only do they hold them, Jacksonville gets the ball. Westbrook has a good return. It gets the ball on the Pittsburgh 41-yard line. Okay, now remember all I talk about on this podcast is there's places on the field. You can't take a sack, right? You can't take one. We're not taking one.

We're in plus territory. We can't take a sack. We're not taking a sack here. We're going to throw. If we got to run the ball, we're going to just keep. We're not taking a sack, okay? First and 10, two yards. Second and eight, of course, what happens?

Sac. Third and 17. What happens? Sack. Now you could say, well, it's not Bortles as fault. Yeah. Okay. All right, good.

Not good enough. Jacksonville's defense comes right back down the field. Stop them again. Stop some again. They get the ball. Now they get the ball at their own 44. Now they're determined. to not let Bordels play in the game.

After that witness, they're determined to not let them play in the game. They hand it off twice. They basically they lose a yard on two handoffs, third and 11, and of course, naturally, he can't make a fucking play. They're putting again. So they go through the fourth quarter, okay? They got a 16 to 6 lead as they enter the fourth. They basically have three and outs every possession

until they're behind in the game until they get behind in the game. Yep. No, I take that back. They go three and out in every single possession in the fourth quarter. They do not get a third down converted. They're 0 for four in the third down and they lose 20 to 16. At that point, you're driving home from the stadium. You've got to say to yourself, either we get a new quarterback or this is going to,

we're never winning here. You got to say, I mean, this to me, I don't give a fuck about what anybody tells me. This is exactly why you can't win with Blake Bortles because you can't even manage them anymore. When the game manager can't manage, it really devalues the whole process. And you did, I mean, you mentioned the fact. But I mean, we saw in third and ten, they're handing the ball off to Fournette because they have a better chance. They know it's a safer decision. They have a better chance to get 10 yards with eight guys in the box than giving Blake the chance to roll out and try to make a throw.

But my question to you, though, I mean, they had this decision to make this offseason. They get tricked a little bit, a little hoodwinked by the postseason run. that they had in the AFC. And that was, as we all know at this point, I mean, that was all defense. But you can hear in these guys Barry Church, you know, Jalen Ramsey after the game, when, you know, throughout the year when they would bring stuff up, you know, they're doing their job. They're doing their part.

They're like you said to me. They had a great game this week. They did enough to win a football game, but they have no faith in their quarterback on the offensive side to do anything to help them out. So, you know, that's kind of a damning proposition. And it's kind of hard to go into games. It's sort of like what we see, Broncos. It's kind of hard to go into games and thinking you're going to win because you know you're so limited offensively.

Yeah. I mean, like at some point, you're going to have to have the realization. Like, it's got to stop. Like there's just no, like at some point, I don't, like, I really want to know. I'd like to do a 30 for 30 on this. I would like to know how David Caldwell has convinced two really good football people, who I have great respect for. the head coach, Doug Marone, and the vice president of player personnel, King of All Football Operations, Tom Coughlin. How they were able to, how Caldwell has convinced them that you can win a title with Blake Bortles.

Like, I want to know. Like, I think there's a 30 for 30 there, Dave Frazier. Like, there's got to be something in this. Like, I don't understand it. It's so fucking obvious to everybody. Like, it's like we can't win with them. You know, they tried to get into the Kirk Cousin's situation last year. but they did it half-ass.

Like they called up Cousins' guy and they basically found out what he was, what he wanted. And they're like, okay, that's it. You know, we're out. You know, we'll sign Bortals to an extension. Like, seriously? You know, they catch, you know, it's remarkable. It's really funny how the way, you know, the media shifts its attention.

And if they like certain people, they won't write. Like, they passed on Watson. They've passed on Mahomes. Get no shit for that, right? Yep. They get no shit for that. Could you imagine if Mahomes was playing in Jacksonville? Or could you imagine?

Imagine if the Sean Watson was playing in Jacksonville? But isn't it interesting Lombardi? I mean, the two guys you bring up, Morone and Coughlin, I mean, Cawflin at the end of his run, he's dealing with, you know, whatever Eli Manning is at this point. I mean, despite the fact that the Giants have went back to back, and we can mention that. But he was dealing with that at the end of his run. So that's what he's watching at the quarterback position.

Marone, I mean, he was in, you know, Buffalo. He's got E.J. Manuel and Thad Lewis and, you know, a slew of other guys roaming through. So they were built on defense. They believe that you can just win. with defense and building a solid defense. But I feel like that philosophy is like what we mentioned earlier in this podcast. It's an old school way of thought because there's too much pace. There's too many possessions.

And there's too many free access touchdowns across the board in the league. No doubt. I mean, and so like I just, that's my ran on. To me, of all the game, and I've watched every Blake game in my life. I've seen everything because I'm a, you know, I'm a Blake officiato. And I'm just telling you, that was the worst performance because everything that Jacksonville try to do to limit Blake from beating them, they couldn't do. Can I ask you one last Blake Bortle's question?

And then we'll do, Eli. How many quarters does it take for Blake Bortals and the Jaguars to score 54 points? Well, against there, probably would take them eight. If the defense wasn't even on the field, they would probably take eight because he's going to overthrow a couple. Yeah, he's going to miss some guys. Yes. He's going to miss some guy.

There's no doubt. Yeah, I mean, I think the fact, look, their offensive line is beat up. They're on their fourth left tack. Eric Flowers play left tackle this week. So, I mean, I understand there's some liability within their front. But look, the liability starts at end with the quarterback because Nathaniel Hackett's call sheet is so fucking small. He can't call anything. Like, what's he going to call with Blake?

Okay, let's open up the formation. We're going to call crossers. Here we go, cross. Everybody knows they run crossers. It's like the biggest joke in America. They've got no passing game. Here comes another crosser. You know, meanwhile, the guys are getting a shit beat out and they come across the field.

They're like, oh, third and seven crosser. like what are you going to run? You can't run anything. You're protecting yourself against them. And it's like to put it in baseball terms, you know, it's like we know a guy has no power. We're going to move in and we're going to slide over. Exactly.

Yeah, like we know exactly what Blake can do. So if he's going to decide to throw a post pattern deep on us, good luck. Well, you know, we'll see if he can do it. And if he does it, then we'll adjust after that. You know what I mean? It's a pretty, they have the tape on him. And we've seen that before with guys like Blake, you know, who who can depend on their feet and run and get away from pressure.

And it works for a little. little while, but once you get the tape and you're not able to draw up new plays or find ways to make him, you know, be able to make easy throws. Because he's a lot like Fitzpatrick at times where he's so hot and cold. You don't know what you're getting going into a game either. So even if you do script out plays, you don't know which Blake is going to be out there. And even if you have 30 plays scripted out and you watch his first pass and it slips out of his hand and, you know, and it lands at a guy's feet, you can't call a game the way you wanted to call a game. Everything changes. I really wish somebody would ask, like 10 years from now, someone's going to ask Blake,

Blake's going to say, yeah, man, I never expected to make this kind of money. I just, you know, I'm happy I did, you know. I don't even think Blake thinks he can play. I really don't. I don't think Blake thinks he's great. I think Blake just, you know, like I watch his body language. Like, he just has nothing that looks like he's a commanding leader. Like he doesn't, you know, I mean, it's unbelievable.

Anyway, let's talk about the great Eli Manning. Let's talk about a commanding leader, Ferris Bueller and the New York Giants. They are. They're back. They're officially back, right? That's a good news for all. The NFC East, I mean, for as much as they've been maligned by a lot of people in the media this year. And, you know, people have talked kind of down on all those guys, you know,

include, you know, the Giants, obviously probably the number one of that group, maybe outside of the clapper early on. But Eli Manning, you know, things are going better for those guys there. I mean, they're winning games that they should and are supposed to win. But OBJ, Ferris Bueller did tell us two weeks ago, Lombardi, they were going to win eight straight. And so far, he's two for two. No doubt. I mean, look, Eli, through one incomplete pass.

I mean, you better slow down this joggernaut. And he's got the Eagles coming this week who have really nobody playing in their secondary. I mean, you know, watch out. They could really move. They could be a dangerous team coming down this track. I mean, Barclay was incredible in this game. But look, I mean, the story here is how badly coached the Tampa Bay Buccaneers are from

from everywhere. I mean, I'm at the point now with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers that, you know, as critical as I've been on James Winston and I've been hard on him, I think that the environment and the culture is so bad in Tampa that I don't know if I would give up on them. I would probably, if somebody said you become the president of the team, you've got to clear out the culture, you've got to change what's going on down there, and you've got to see if you can have this kid do it, because that's really a bad organization. I mean, they're bad.

They don't have, they have, what they are, the classic example of an organization that has players and they have no real direction. they have no symmetry, they collect talent, they don't build a team. To me, they have no chance. I mean, whether they keep Jason Light as the general manager or not, whomever walks in there, what the bucks better do is the bucks better hire one guy to run their franchise. Now, you know, they tried to do that a couple years ago when they fired Grude. And, you know, they've gone through this.

Look, the glazers will go out and pay whatever they got to find for the coach. You know, could you see Brian Kelly from Notre Dame going down there without a doubt, right? Without a doubt, I can see that happening, right? And whatever they do, they're going to turn the team over, but they better start. They got to start with the right culture. I'm not sure Winston is in that environment, the way it's so poorly organized, and there's no attention to detail that I don't know if I'd give up on him. I think he's part of the problem, but I'm not convinced to that.

And I learned a long time ago, you can't get rid of a player unless you really know for sure. And I think I don't really know for sure. But I know one thing for sure. The bucks are really, really poorly organized, poorly put together. and poorly, fundamentally coached, they have no chance. And Lombardi, here's my staff for you to show that. This guy, Trevor Sycamah, I think, is the way to pronounce this,

but Tampa Bay Buccaneers reporter. Here it is. Buccaneers had more yards against the Redskins this week than the Rams did against the Kansas City Chiefs. We both know the Rams scored 54 points and the buck scored three points. There you go. So that's what you talk about. You may have the talent, you may have the numbers,

you may have the people out there on the field that can produce, but you are not a collective unit. were not built to win football games as a team. And that is a tough spot to be in. The interesting thing with Winston, and we talked about this a couple weeks ago, is if he does go out there and unfortunately get injured, he is due $20 million.

So then the bucks really don't have a choice. I mean, it is his team. Yeah, well, you know, look, they're going to start him this week. And if he gets hurt, they're on the hook for $20 million. But I think at this point, you almost have to do it because, you know, you got to see what you got to let him play. Fitzpatrick isn't going to do any good.

and you know a new coach is coming in. I don't know if a new general manager is coming in. I don't know that, but I think you definitely have to do it. And so, look, I just think to me that it's as bad of an organization as, I mean, they're disorganized. They can't, I don't even know that they practice. Look, I think when you run the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, you have to be really, really concerned about where you are.

Tampa's a really an interesting town. There's a lot of shit going on down there. A lot of strip clubs, a lot of stuff for the players to do, a lot of things outside of football that can affect your team. and you've got to have a lot of guys like they did have it one time when they had the saps and the lynches, even though, you know, Warren may have had some issues off the field. Warren was love football. He was passionate about football, right?

Lynch, those guys, Brooks, those guys love, you better get a bunch of guys that love football on your team when you're in Tampa. They don't have that right now. And unfortunately, that was one of the things that people loved about James coming into that situation and coming out of the draft was he was a very passionate guy. on the football field and was always, you know, the guy to give the hype speech, even though they may not make sense, he just seemed like he was very invested and involved in the game of football. You know, you don't see that as much anymore and that, you know, may come down to culture. And, you know, what happens if, you know, James does perform late this year? And a team like Jacksonville says, hey, we need to try to figure out if we could trade for someone like James.

I mean, is that a possibility? And that's a way that maybe the Buccaneers could get some value back for James? I mean, is that best case scenario? You know, I mean, where are they going to turn to? I think to me, they've got to be able to, they've got to find out what's going on. I mean, I mean, to me, this is the problem. The glazers are not going to know what's going on. They're relying on Jason Light to tell them.

They don't really have a true president who understands football in their order. I mean, I think to me, what the glazers don't understand is culture matters. In fact, maybe I should send them my book, you know, because that we might help them, because that's really what they lack. They really don't have a, they don't get the culture element. See, here's part of the problem. They didn't understand why they won in the first place. They didn't understand why they won in the first place.

And so since you don't figure out why you won, you can't figure out how to continue winning. And we've seen so many weird years in Tampa Bay where, you know, or Rahim Morris year where he wins 10 games, but they're just in a really tough division so they don't make the playoffs. And then that, you know, that regime and error is over and they move on. I mean, they've dumped so many guys and tried to find that formula for so long. And, you know, we should point out, I mean, being in the NFC South is no, easy journey at this point when you got, you know, the Falcons who have obviously, you know,

had an MVP and Matt Ryan, going to a Super Bowl, the Panthers. Same thing with Cam Newton, get an MVP going to Super Bowl. We all know what Drew Breeze is. I mean, one of the best quarterbacks we've ever seen in football and, you know, a guy that won a Super Bowl with the Saints. So they have been in a tough position for quite some time. And, you know, who knows? I mean, as that group of quarterbacks leaves and they find a new guy, they can maybe

get ahead of that, you know, that next curve if they do find someone to come in. Like what we've seen in Indianapolis with Frank Reich. You know, you get a guy in there who knows what he wants to do and he makes it happen. So there is a chance. But can we do awards and can we start with on the lamb? Because it seems like Dirk Cutter and maybe the whole buck. Maybe Tampa Bay should take a break and go on a lamb this week, Lombardi. Oh, I think there's no doubt they need to go on the lamb, Tafrasier.

I think there's no doubt they need to go on a lamb. That just goes from worse to worse to worse. They definitely go on the lamb. And the next word, we have the Fred Palermo Award. so this is all about preparation getting a game plan together. I mean, Andy Reed and Shaw McVeigh pretty much had the same game playing going up against each other, so I don't think those guys qualify.

But Lombardi, what game stuck out to you and which team do we have this week? I like the Ravens. I think what they did with Lamar Jackson. I mean, they didn't overburden them with the game plan. I thought they did a nice job with them, and he ran the ball effectively. They won the game by three points.

I mean, look, you know, Flacco being out, it was funny. Flacco didn't drop the line when he was hurt. So I thought the Ravens did a nice job. They played well. I mean, look, the Bengals defense isn't very good. But I think they did. And then look, I'd like to give it to the Denver Broncos,

but I don't think the Broncos won that game. I think my man, Anthony Lynn lost the game. I mean, Anthony Lynn, by running the ball on that second down, and third down play basically gave Vance Joseph five more plays to move the ball down the field and you got beat on a field goal. So as much as I like to say, you know, Denver won the game. Denver didn't win the game. And, you know, same thing in Chicago.

Like, you know, I mean, did you hear much from your Trubisky fans for on Twitter this week? Did you hear it? Well, they're diehard Lombardi. The Trubisketz, I call them the Truthers, the Mitchell Truthers. They're always in a good spirits, especially now that the Bears are winning. But Tate Frazier, I fucking love this. I had a guy. And he's not Carolina Mitchell Trubisky fans.

These are Chicago fans. I had a guy send me on Twitter how Drew Brees didn't move the ball on the Vikings and that I'm being not partial to Mitchell. Okay, you know, like to me, like I think Mark Twain one said you can't reason with unreasonable people because they'll beat you with experience every time. Like that's that you can't, you can't, you can't. Like, just leave that alone. Like, if you watch that Bears game on Sunday night and you're telling me you thought

Mitchell played well, good luck, okay, God bless you. We shouldn't have a conversation. Like, there's no point in us having one. There's really none. Be sure to tweet Lombardi your Bears' thoughts as much as you can. I'm really enjoying it. I will say this, Lombardi. The thing that we pointed out both about Mitchell was that the bears continue to start these games out hot.

I mean, we saw it halftime. They're out gaining the Vikings 202 to 77. But they're only up 14 to zero in that game. And that's really the difference because that defense, I mean, as the game wears on, they are not as dynamic because that's just that's what happens. You talk about conditioning and you talk about the fact that, I mean, these games are long, seasons are long, defensive linemen. I mean, it's tough to continue to build a pass rush in a game. but the separation that should be made, you know, stretching out games more like we saw earlier with the Packers when they lost them this season, there was room for improvement where Mitchell

can stretch out these leads. And so far, he hasn't been able to do so all the time. So to me, I think that is the fairest criticism of Mitchell is because the defense has been so great. They put him in great situations to take big leads. And, you know, we've seen, you know, 10-0, 14-0. It's sort of like a Jake D'Alome thing that we saw back in the day. where they've already had three turnovers, but we're only up, you know, 9 to 0 because we had three field goals.

Look, I think it really comes down to the fact that, you know, Mahomes is so good, Watson's so good, and the Bears fans are just so desperate to have Mitchell be in the same conversation. And yeah, he runs the ball around there because, I mean, look, they traded an asset to get them. It's more of about their verbiage is more desperate. As Springsteen would say, sometimes I can't tell my desperation from my courage. I think it's more desperation than them courageously believing in Mitchell. I think now look, that being said, maybe he'll continue to improve, maybe he'll get better. The accuracy to me is always going to be an issue, but we'll see how that goes.

But yeah, give him credit where credit is due. He's 41 rushes going into the game. He had five more carries in the game. His feet cause your problems. There's no doubt. His feet cause your problems. And if you don't handle his movement in the pocket, like the first third down of the game, he's going to beat you.

You've got to account for it. you've got to have a good rush plan when you go against him. You just can't go in there and say, let's get up the field and let's make some plays because his feet can beat you. It's no different than Lamar Jackson. I mean, you know, to me, Mitchell and Lamar are similar in what they can do. Lamar's not very accurate either, but his feet can beat you. And I think that's where Mitchell's in the same category.

And it's, to me, I mean, the thing with this bear's defense of what I kind of, you know, liking it to too, because now people are speaking about the bears as if, you know, they're in the category to be a Super Bowl contender at this. point. And I think the fair comparison to Mitchell at this point, and it may, he may not be even at that level. But what we saw, you know, with the with the 49ers, when Capradick made the run in, you know, 2012, 2013, just having the ability to be a threat and have to have a defense account for him in a contained situation, just put enough pressure in the playoffs where, you know, he made enough key third down runs to, you know, elongate drives. And then from there, you know, they go on and

win some big games. But, you know, there were limitations. I think you just made a great point there, one of your many great points. But I think that you, what you said, take the political aspect out of it. Capernick. I think Capernick and Mitchell are very similar. I do. I think Capernick coming out of Nevada Reno was very inaccurate. He was really, and I did a lot like him. I thought he was way in. And I thought he got better. And they did a great job with him in San Francisco, you know, in terms of protecting his accuracy and they ran an offense around him. So that being said, you know, I think there's some similarities. Now, I think the reality of it is, is can he develop and change and find a different way to improve on that? But I think the

Kaepernick, as just football player, I think the Kaepernick analogy is really similar. Because they are great athletes. And then, you know, you talk about Lamar Jackson, too, I think when the offense is being tailored to make you look better, I mean, the fact that the Ravens open a game and they were no, they did not throw a single pass. They go 75, yards and they score a touchdown. You know, that is, that is an offense that is being tailored to the skill set of Lamar Jackson as he currently plays football. And that's good to see.

You're not just throwing a guy out there in your system and being hardheaded about it, which I think for a lot of these young quarterbacks, I mean, we saw Andy Reid let, you know, Mahomes learn, and he tailored the offense to his game and the throws that he can make. And Nagy's obviously doing that with Trubisky. And, you know, you see that kind of stuff in the NFL. Obviously, we all know what got's been able to do with Big Vey. But then you watch, you know, Blake Bortle, in that's two-year's game, and it looks like a totally different game.

Don't get me going. You had to ruin my day. Can we do our last award for the week? If you don't know, now you know? I was going to ask you this question. Now, you know, what is it that we need to know now? What do we know? To me, I think we know, that's to use a Michael Lombardi qualifier.

I think we know that the New Orleans Saints are the best team in football. Like we talked about the top of this podcast, as much as everyone's enamored with the idea of what we saw in that Rams Chiefs game as far as the offense and the big plays, the New Orleans Saints can play different styles. And I think that they have the ability to match up with a lot of different teams, a lot of different ways. And I think that they've had to adjust in games to win games. And to me, I think the Saints are the best team in football.

What about you, Lombardy? I do think they are the best team in football, but I also think that they are, I think they're well coached. And I think to beat the Rams, to beat the Saints, you're going to have to be really well coached. You're going to have to manage games differently. And I think there's one thing you've got to know for sure now is old time game management don't work anymore. It's a different league. It's a different time. Even though they were doing this back in 1966, everything apparently has changed in 2018.

It was fun to see Andy Reid and Shaw McVeigh, you know, both worked the clock. They were running the two-minute offense from the start of the game. It's fun to watch football like that. But, you know, it is good to talk to you, Lombardy and get perspective on all this stuff. We will be back, you know, next Tuesday to do the full breakdown. of all things over Thanksgiving. We hope that everyone has a happy Thanksgiving with their families and they're able to watch football and enjoy themselves.

Have a happy holiday. Lombardi, any more thoughts before we get out of here? No, I'm good, Tate Frazier. Have a great Thanksgiving. One of the greatest weekends of all time. I love it. Enjoy it. Enjoy the games.

Enjoy everything. And thanks for everything. I'm thankful for you, Tate Fraser. I appreciate you. I'm thanking for you, Michael Lombardi, even though the Mitchell Trubisky fans, I'll try to stop them and keep them at bay for as long as I can. We'll be back next Tuesday. And again, we hope everyone has a happy Thanksgiving,

and we appreciate all of you who listen to GM Street. Talk to you soon. Thanks again to Fandul. I am so excited to be playing on Fandul this football season because over at Fandul, you get the excitement of researching and building your team each week, regardless of the outcome. Plus, they have tons of ways to play, like the Grit Iron Pickham contest where you just pick winners, no spreads.

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