The Ringer NFL Show - Lombardi’s Week 17 Reactions and Regular-Season Wrap-up | GM Street (Ep. 375)

Episode Date: January 2, 2019

The Ringer's Michael Lombardi and Tate Frazier wrap up the 2018 regular season discussing the finalized playoff picture, the ripple effects of the many firings around the league, and the main takeaway from what we saw on Sundays this season. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. After a three-year hiatus, Bill Simmons is back with his NBA trade value rankings for the 2018 and 2019 season. You can check that out, as well as our year-in-review articles wrapping up everything 2018 on the site. Also, throughout the holidays, we will be sticking to a regular podcast schedule, so make sure to tune into your favorite shows as usual. Happy holidays from The Ringer. Welcome to GM Street Park of the Ringer Podcast Network. It is January 2nd, 2019. It is a new year and the regular season of the NFL is finally wrapped up.

And I'm joined on the line right now by Mr. Michael Lombardi. Lombardi, how are you doing? Happy New Year, Tate Frazier. How are you, my friend? I think I'm doing pretty well compared to some of these coaches in the NFL. We've got a lot to talk about. We've got a lot of head coaches that are out, a lot of coordinators that are out. And we've got just a lot, a slew of decisions that will be discussed as we get through this podcast.

Obviously, we do have to talk about Week 17 and a lot of the big picture stuff that's been going on. But before we get in all that, Lombardi, I just want to ask you, as you get into 2019, do you have a New Year's resolution? Anything you're looking forward to as we move into the playoffs? Or are you just keeping things? You're running it back from everything that we learned from 2018. You know, obviously I've connected with a lot of people through the book. And John Gordon is a leadership guy, wrote a lot of good books.

And, you know, instead of making a resolution, I think to me, I'm going to choose a word. They talk about just picking a word. I saw Davo Sweeney talk about this too. Just pick a word. The word for me is going to be consistent. Just be consistent. That's it. So no resolution is just consistent.

Consistent with whatever you plan to do. The word takes more than the act. So if you're consistent, then I think the acts fall into place. So that's going to be the word of the year, consistent. Yeah, consistency. Consistency is key. And we will say that with every day, you have 365 opportunities to make it happen in 2019. So we'll be pulling for everyone to have a good.

year and get things started out right. Speaking of people that I guess didn't get things started or ended off right as you entered 2019, that we're going to talk about the Minnesota Vikings. Obviously, some storylines all around the NFL as we look at week 17. Probably the biggest storyline was a game that you pointed out.

And the reason you pointed it out was because the Chicago Bears actually had a chance possibly to sort of dictate their terms as the three seat heading into the playoffs to see who they were going to play as the six seed. The team that they will now play after the Eagles won will be the reigning champs. The underdogs, they now call themselves and have coined that term just like they did last year.

It was handed the playoffs. But the Chicago Bears, the defense shows up. They beat the Minnesota Vikings. The Vikings are eliminated from the playoffs. We see some back and forth on the sideline in this game, some frustration from Kirk Cousins, the new quarterback they brought in to take them to the promised land of the playoffs and make them be a real contender for the Super Bowl possibly that, of course, did not work out in the first season, feeling cousins, guys getting in it on the sidelines.

It's an NFC North Showdown. Bears get the win. Bears will now take on the Eagles, as I said. But just looking at the Vikings and what happened with this season, Lombardi, what are your first takeaways as you go and you evaluate your team and you look back and say, we did not make the playoffs. What's next for us? I think they have to, the Vikings have to, instead of sitting there bitching about Kirk Cousins making $84 million,

you know, Kirk Cousins has got paid, right? He's on the team next year. There's nothing you're going to do about it. Right. So we have to do something about what we can control and we can only control our offensive and defensive lines. I mean, look, you go back and watch the tape of that game, as bad as the Vikings offense played, and they played poorly, their defense let them down. I mean, they run an outside zone almost get a touchdown. They couldn't stop the run. And they couldn't get off the field on

third down against the Bears. And so they have no one else but themselves to blame. And I think they have to rebuild their offensive and defensive lines. If they don't do that, I don't think it's never going to be the same. I think the Tony Spirano death this summer is unfortunate as it was to lose a man that young and a good a coach as he was. I think that really did impact their team. I mean, you can replace players. Line coaches are hard to replace during the season. And I think that really caused them.

But if I'm the Vikings, if I'm Mike Zimmer or Rick Spielman, I got to fix these offensive and defensive lines because until that gets fixed, nobody else can really, all the skill we have doesn't matter if we don't fix the line. And a lot of people were pointing to the fact that one of the reasons Washington and I want to keep Kirk Cousins. Apparently, this was the leak report was that in big games, he didn't quite show up. Obviously, you mentioned the fully guaranteed contract of 84 million. In this game, the problem was on third down and Kirk Cousins was not able to find a way to figure out how to get around some of these third-d-down miscues. I mean, he overthrew Stefan Diggs on the

initial third-down in this game. The Bears got an early lead. And you know, you could just see that the crowd was starting to churn and turn on him as he was unable to get some of these things to go through. So as much as people are pointing to Kirk Cousins, like you said, that deal is done. He will be the quarterback in Minnesota. That is not necessarily the focal point that is holding them back, even though it seemed like on this day, everyone could point to Couss and say that was the problem. A lot of the Minnesota players and coaches and staff after the game were asked about the security of Mike Zimmer.

They all said that is their guy. So that is nothing to be concerned with about Mike Zimmer being on the hot seat with this team. But like you said, they have to shore up those offensive and defensive lines to figure out really who they are as a team. Should we move on to some of these, the head coaching vacancies, some of the bigger stories as we push into the offseason? Yeah,

I think there's no doubt. I think this has been, I mean, look, one third of the NFL workforce got fired on Sunday after the games or Monday. You know, I don't know if there's eight good coaches out there to replace these jobs. And I think it really goes to a lot to where people don't really recognize what their

problems. Let's just take a team that didn't have an old. open in Jacksonville, right? Jacksonville fired a bunch of assistance this week, right? Jacksonville retained David Caldwell, uh, the general manager, Tom Coughlin's still running the organization. They kept Doug Marone. They scored one touchdown after Nathaniel Hackett was fired. Uh, you know, and now the words coming out, they're going to change their roster. And it's funny, they're going to change their roster, but the people that put their roster together aren't being changed, you know, and so it's always the coach's fault on Tuesday, on Monday,

when all these firings happen, I posted this great quote by Bill Wall. She talks a little story about how the GM and the president of the owners all get together and basically blame the coaches for everything. And that was written. And that was said in like in the mid-70s and it still applies today. You know, I mean, here you go. You've got the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Jason Lites, the general manager. He gets the job because Lovie Smith hires him.

Lovey Smith gets fired. Dirk Cotter becomes the head coach. Jason Lites still there picking the players. Dirk Cotter gets fired. Oh, by the way, Jason Lites now going to pick the next coach. Are you kidding me? I mean, seriously. Like, and then the best one is Steve Kime.

I mean, Steve Kime gets arrested for a DUI this summer, clearly has had a problem with it. And, you know, put together one of the worst roster of the first pick in the draft, hired Steve Wilkes. Right. And now he's back again. to pick the next coach when what did the Cardinals ever won? Like, when did the Cardinals win four titles in a row that you think that this team's really well built? It's just blame the coach. You know, and then I read Kime's comments.

If you go back to, if you go back to last year at the owner's meetings when they asked Kime about Steve Wilkes and the other people he interviewed, he talked glowingly of Brian Flores, the defensive coordinator for the Patriots. And he talked about how much he loved them and what a great interview. interview, he didn't know him, how surprised he was, how talented he was. You know, guess what, Tay Fraser? He's not interview him this year. Like at some point, like, for me watching this, you kind of know what people leak information to the media because they don't get attacked. They just don't get attacked. I mean, Kimes, nobody goes back. It says

Kimes drafts are bad. You know, nobody goes back and says, you know, the, the Jaguars, the Jay Glacers reporting today that they're going to shake up their roster, which I'm sure they will. Jay doesn't just throw stuff out there. And nobody's going to go back and say, you know, if they would have picked Deshaun Watson, maybe they wouldn't be in this mess. Instead, they pick Leonard Fortin who they're trying to have a contract dispute over guaranteed money. Like, the bed that they're laying in is the bed that they made.

And if you look at the Arizona Cardinals and you look at that situation with Steve Wilkes, I mean, he comes in for one season. He goes three and 13. That ties for the worst in Cardinals franchise history. last time that it happened was in 1988 back when they were the St. Louis Cardinals before they came down to Arizona. Worst offense in the league

around 14 points for game. They were just not able to conjure up any sort of inspired play this entire season for the most part. And Wilkes just seemed like he was a dead man walking at the end of that one. Then, of course, you bring up Dirk Cutter, a guy that we have talked about in this program as a guy that we've sent him to the lamb quite a few times.

Cutter leaves Tampa 19 to 29 career record. 11 straight seasons that the Buccaneers have not been able to make the play. playoffs under Dirk Cutter. And both of those franchises, they keep trying to run it back. I mean, obviously, Arizona had some high times with Carson Palmer and Bruce Ariens not too long ago. Tampa Bay also had some moments, you know, not too, taught maybe dating back to Rahim Morris.

There were some times that, you know, they'd win 10 games and maybe have a chance to make a real run. But it is interesting, as you point out those two franchises, they, they're sort of sitting on their hands. And now that they're making the changes, but there aren't really wholesale changes. It's just we're going to replace the coach and kind of keep the same philosophy that we have in the building with the guys that we are keeping at the top who are making the same decisions as we move on with everything. So that is something to keep an eye on as we look at those two. One of the ones I really want to point out and look at is Marvin Lewis with Cincinnati Bingles.

This is a team that we have seen at times reports. You talked about reports getting leaked. We've seen reports that Marvin Lewis is going to be fired. Then Marvin Lewis came back. Officially the Bengals owner, this time Mike Brown, he fired Marvin Lewis after the team. failed to reach the postseason three straight years. They weren't able to do that. He's the winning his coach in franchise history, 16 seasons there.

He comes out afterwards, and he says something that we both really appreciate here on this program of GM Street. He says that if he were to suggest someone to be the head coach to take his place, his suggestion would be none other than Huey headlines, Hugh Jackson to takeover than Cincinnati Bengals. And when we hear that, Lombardi, how do you feel? I mean, first off, in my heart, I feel pretty good about that. I think that is a good choice for Marvin.

Well, I'm hoping we do get Huey back. I mean, that would be awesome. I mean, I don't see Mike Brown doing that. I really don't. Mike Brown is probably, I think the Bengal job, frankly, is at the cusp of being a really good job. I think they've spent 16 years with Marvin. And I think Marvin was planning on coming back this year to coach. That was the deal that was made.

And I think Mike Brown realized that it really wasn't going to work, that it's time for a change. I think the Bengals are going to change. I don't think they're going to hire Hugh. It would shock me if they did. I mean, their fan base would just show. shrink to nothing if they did that. I think the Bengals job is a unique job in the sense that it's a non-corporate job. You know, you answer to an owner and his daughter and his son-in-law, you know, they've kind of lived in their world for so long. People blame Mike Brown for being

cheap. I don't see Mike Brown being cheap. I see Mike Brown not wanting to waste money. Like, I think that's a difference. I think there's a money doesn't cure all your problems in the NFL. And if you were to ask me what's the best job out there, I would say I think the Bengals is one of the best jobs because the Bengals, you can deal directly with an owner. People say, come on, Lombardi, you're crazy. The fucking Packer job is the way best job. Okay, right?

The Packer job's a great job. I read about it online, how great of a job the Packer job is. The president of the team, Mark Murphy, created a situation where everybody reports to him. The executive vice president, Russ Ball reports to him. He controls the money. The player personnel director controls the player, the coach, coaches the team.

You got three layers. You know, layers didn't work for the mafia, Frank Pantangli, it didn't work for them. It don't work in the NFL either. So if Russ Paul, the guy who's doing contract says, you know, I don't think that guy's worth that contract. You're out. Whether you want to sign him or not, you're out. You can't, he's not signing them.

So it's like the admissions director at Notre Dame. You can say you're recruiting these kids and you can get them into school. If the admissions director says he ain't coming in, he got all the power. So tell me why Green Bay is a good job. it's a hard place to live. It's a hard place to practice once you get into November and December with the weather. You always have to go inside. It's hard to develop players.

You can't really go outside even though you play outside because it's so cold. It's a different kind of team. You've got to structure your team a certain way. They've been blessed to have two of the greatest quarterbacks in the history of the game. They've masked some of these problems. But I see Cincinnati being a better job because I think you don't have to deal with layers. You don't have to deal with layers. And I think these layers are what causes more problems than solutions.

Well, if we do get Huey headlines there in Cincinnati, we will have a direct contact with the owner just kind of very similar and akin to what we had in Cleveland with the Hazam family. So I'm sure he'll give us plenty of stories about his situation there. But I could see Cleveland. I could see Cincinnati hiring a guy like Don Martindale at the Baltimore Ravens. Guys from Ohio, really good defensive coach, you know, was voted the best assistant coach. I think Yahoo voted him as the number one assistant, done a great job with Baltimore's team.

You know, he deserves to be a head coach based on merit, not based on electability, based on merit, which really should still matter. And I think he fits what they want. I mean, he thinks he gives them a guy that can come in and lead the team and is divergent in thought, because whoever coaches the Bengals has to be divergent and thought. They just can't traditionally run things the same way. But if, like, Marvin, if you do it the right way, you can be successful. I remember talking to Marvin before he took the job. I like Marvin, to me, it's a college job.

You know, Mike Brown's the athletic director. You end up having a couple guys on your staff that can recruit. You let them go out and scout players and you build a personnel department and you have coaches. Pretty old school. I think it works. I do too. And there are some other names that have been thrown out just to what I've seen as far as reports. And again, we've talked about what league reports are.

They're usually just, you know, agents trying to put their guys names out there. But Vance Joseph is a guy that I've seen that's been put out there for that job. Bill Lasers, a guy who was an offensive coordinator there that's been put out as a potential option with the Bengals. And then Zach Taylor, another guy, the QB coach for the Rams is another name that I've seen floated for potentially taking over that Cincinnati job. So we'll keep an eye on that. I do want to stay in Ohio while we're here and talk about Hughes's former team, the Cleveland Browns. Obviously, Greg Williams comes in and does some, I guess, good things. You know, Freddie Kitchens is probably, you know, you and I will point to as someone that's under just a really good job with Baker Mayfield and managing that offense and getting that team to believe in who they are and get a little bit of it.

of an identity. But as you look at guys that are up, you know, for this Brown's job, obviously Huey's out. Greg Williams is one of the people that has been discussed if they may bring him back. I don't know. I don't really foresee that happening. Mike McCarthy is a name that's been thrown out there for the job. Mike Muncheck is a name that's been thrown out there for that job with Cleveland.

Is there anybody just in your mind as you look around and survey the league and you see the situation with Baker? Because that is a job that I think a lot of people are interested in just because of the promise of Baker and what he was able to show late in this season. But is there a coach that sort of fits that identity of, you know, kind of tough nose Cleveland Browns football and a guy that could be able to manage the career of someone like A. Baker Mayfield? You know, I think it's all going to come down to who can get who who who's John Dorsey wants to have with him. I mean, I could see him hiring Brian Flores from the, from the New England Patriots. He gets a really good defensive

coach. He gets a really smart guy, young coach. And he keeps Freddie Kitchen as, as his offensive coordinator and life goes on. So I think it's really about fit. I think it's about relationship with John Dorsey. What I found fascinating is that Adam Gase isn't a candidate for this job. Now, everybody thought he would be, right? Because Jimmy Haslam, when I work for Jimmy Haslam, loved Adam Gase. Peyton Manning would call Jimmy Haslam on the phone and tell him about how much he liked

Adam Gase, what he thought of Adam Gase, how much of a fan he was of Adam Gase. And we tried to talk to Adam Gase, and Adam Gase wouldn't, he wasn't interested in being a head coach at that time. now he's available and the Browns have no interest, which means Dorsey has no interest. You know, and so that I find that really fascinating. Because if you had it, you know, I'm not saying Adam's a great head coach, but, you know, when you look at it on the surface,

you think, okay, guys had some experience. He's been doing it for a while. He can turn around and bring it in and maybe he gets better the second time around, but they have no interest. I think it's going to be somebody that John Dorsey, I want to use the word control, but works for, because Dorsey's going to control the roster. I mean, the Browns are a good team, but the Browns are going to be a lot like you're going to have to take some character guys because Dorsey doesn't really care about that.

They'll take some guys that come in there. And if he hits, great. If he doesn't hit, then it's going to be on you. Is there a chance? I mean, this is one of the names that has been thrown around. And I don't know how true this is, but is there a chance that someone like a Bruce Ariens could go into that building or, I mean, Mike McCarthy is a name that a lot of people have pointed to as well in Cleveland. But those guys seem like more established people than what you've mentioned as far as what Dorsey would want to bring in. is there a chance maybe you get a big name splash like a Bruce Ariens that wants to come in and

work with a Baker Mayfield, a guy that considers himself a quarterback guru to come in and work with this young quarterback? You know, it's funny. Bruce Ariens said he only wanted the Cleveland job, and now he said he would listen to Tampa if they talk. Like, I don't know if does Bruce want to work or not? I'm not sure. You know, I don't know. I mean, I think Bruce is a good coach. I think Bruce is, does he really want to coach? I mean, when a guy retires, does he really want a coach. I mean, I think that's the question, Mark, you got to ask yourself. And I don't know if that's really, I mean, I think the guy that they hire in Cleveland should be a guy that you feel like is going to coach Baker Mayfield for the next. You don't want to go through this again. Now, I know, look,

there's eight jobs open and the chances of finding the right guy are hard. But I think if I were Cleveland, I would take a chance on a good young head coach that I thought could develop in a year or two because I know once we get Baker situated and it might be Freddie Kitchens, you know, it might be him. But I would really say, hey, I don't want to hire another guy. I don't want to go through this two years from now. I want a guy that I'm going to grow with as a personnel guy and as a coach. And you talk about a situation where you don't want to go through it in two years. A team that did have to go through it in two years is John Elway's Denver Broncos. We saw him put the gloves on. We knew that a hit was coming. The hitman himself was ready to get rid of Vance Joseph. He immediately fires

Vance Joseph after the first consecutive losing season since 1971, 72. That's something to that you don't want to stomach if you're John Elway. We have seen him plenty of times, you know, take full responsibility, but also get rid of guys after doing so. The Broncos allowed, you know, 22.8 points per game. That's 15th in the NFL. So they were the middle of the pack as far as the defensive unit. And that was supposed to be the identity of this team. We've learned, you know, just by watching what Elway has been able to do.

It's either Elway or the highway. And, you know, John Elway is making these decisions. He is saying that, you know, the past will not dictate the future for you. this team, but they are trying to find a guy to come in. One of the names that had been floated originally was Adam Gase, a guy like you said, had such a rapport with a lot of, you know, big name guys in the NFL and a name that was going to possibly go somewhere to Denver at some point because people thought Elway really liked him. He sort of dismissed those talks. So as you look at the Broncos job, obviously you do have that defense to rely on. But as you go through names

that have been floated so far, it is interesting because, you know, John Elway is calling the shot. so whoever's coming in is going to be working underneath Elway and answering to him for the most part. So is there a guy that does have that youth, a guy that could come in there to that situation and be able to maybe work with A.K.'s Keenham and be able to figure out what's going on with that offense and be able to build something out like a Zach Taylor, you know, the Rams QB coach's name that's been floated around a little bit. Is there, or Chuck Pagano could maybe come in? I have seen that name be floated to go down to Denver and to take over that team. is there someone like that that you kind of can spot and point to and say, that looks like someone that Elway would work with? Or maybe Josh McDaniels. Maybe he reunites Josh McDaniels with the mile high city.

That won't happen, Tay Frazier. But I'll say this. I'll say this. I think that the job's really a hard job. I think John Elway should just make himself the head coach. McCubiak sitting there, he's going to be the offensive coordinator. If that they go defensive coach, I would suspect. I mean, Kubiak wants to coach.

And if he wants to coach, why not coach the Broncos, right? He doesn't want to be the head coach. Why not just be the coordinator? So I could see him hire in a defensive guy. Chris Richards be a great hire. I think Chris Richards done a great job with the Cowboys this year. So that'd be a great hire. But to me, it comes down to do you want to work with John?

You want John picking all your players. John's in the coach's box on Sunday with you. John's as much, I don't know why John just doesn't coach. I mean, he's doing Al Davis's role. And he's really playing the Al Davis part. And look, he doesn't have to have any accountability. I mean, he gets a pass on all of it. I mean, you know, whether his drafts are bad or not,

nobody's going to question that because he's John Elway. There's a statue in front of the stadium towards them. If there's another general manager in football that has had this kind of record, I mean, look, Peyton Manning has saved them. You take Peyton Manning away from this franchise, where are they? You know, I mean, let's face it. Where are they? You know, and so it was John Fox's problem before.

I think it's a hard job. I think this one's a really hard one. I think this is why Bill Walsh said back in 1984, they were only competing against eight. This ain't one of the eight. they can talk about the Broncos being a historic franchise. They're not set up to be one of the eight. They're just so dysfunctional.

They have no real because the guy has all the power and he's working it. And he doesn't understand what it really takes to have all that power. And winning has almost hurt them more than help them because they've won. They just don't, they haven't figured out how they won. They won because they had the great one, the quarterback. And he masked a lot of the problems. But, you know, I think that's where they're going to have to try to win games, but they don't have a quarterback. They have had no track right of drafting

quarterbacks. It's going to be a challenge. I think, I think this is going to be a hard job, whether they, you know, they talk to Flores, they talk to Zach Tal. I think it'll be a young guy that Elway can control. Is there a chance that we get someone like a Vic Fangio who's done such a great job building out that Bears defense? And obviously, we talked about the identity of the Broncos. It is their defense. They do have Chub. They do have Von Miller, a guy who is, you know, that supreme talent, that elite talent that you have as a pass rusher. If you bring in a guy like Vic Fangio, and you get that defense to completely buy in and maybe become what they were the year

that they won the Super Bowl where they do have the front four that gets pressure up front with what they had Sylvester Williams, Vaughn Miller, all those guys up front. So if you do have that and you bring in a Vic Fangio to kind of validate everything, is there a chance that maybe John Elway pulls back

and is a little bit laissez-faire with things or is he's set in stone on who he is with this team and being that Al Davis role? Because it does seem like that is the case. Yeah, I just think to me, it's hard to run the NFL team from the G, from our, Davis's chair. It's really hard. It's hard to do it. And it's it's problematic. It creates so many

problems, you know, and I just don't see that really be in the case. And, you know, look, I mean, always got the authority to do what he does. I mean, is he willing to put the time and the effort into doing those things? I mean, that remains to be seen. And, you know, it's not all that. I mean, look, he picked Bance Joseph. You know, he picked Bans Joseph after Bance's defense, I think, was ranked in the bottom third of the NFL that year. So I'm not sure what he's Saul in Vance that thought he was going to be a good coach because it wasn't on the Miami tape, but he went ahead and picked it anyway. So I think it's a tough job, Tate, Fraser. I really do. Yep, it is. And it is something that we will keep an eye on as we both like to talk about what's

going on with the Denver Broncos and John Elway and all that sort of stuff down there. The next job and the next team that I do want to bring up, I guess I should start with the coach that I just mentioned. And you said there's no chance he's going to go down to Denver and reunite with the Miami City. But Josh McDaniel is a guy that we saw last year. Take the Colts job and then back out last minute and go back to New England. Now he is up and a lot of people were talking about the chance for him to go to Green Bay to take on and work with Aaron Rogers, a guy that is obviously offensive-minded, a guy that knows how to work with an elite quarterback because he has worked with Tom Brady so many times over the years. When you look at McDaniels

and you look at that fit in Green Bay, Green Bay and Denver is sort of the same thing. And you just mentioned that from the outside looking in, you say, well, this has got to be a great job. I'm going to go work with Aaron Rogers. Well, this is going to be a great job. I'm going to to work with John Elway and have Von Miller and have this whole situation. But there's a lot of pressure that comes with that. And obviously, looking at Green Bay, Rogers is a guy that, you know, is not very happy with his situation, goes six, nine and one this year. He continued to play out the rest of the season, despite, you know, he was not 100%.

Joe Philbin keeps him out on the field. That probably, you know, nulled and validated to the fact that he would not return as the head coach in Green Bay with Aaron Rogers, seeming a little bit frustrated with that. But is there a fit there with Josh McDaniels? Would he jump ship from the Patriots to go to the Packers to work with, Aaron Rogers? You know, that's a hard one, take first. I don't know. I mean, if he didn't like the Colt job, I'm not sure how he can like the Packer job.

They both had good quarterbacks. I mean, I know Rogers was coming. Luck was people were debating whether he was going to be healthy or not. But like I've mentioned earlier, the structure in Green Bay, for a guy that wants to put in the Patriot program would be a challenge. I think the Bengals, I know they're interested in Josh. They're going to try to talk to him this week. weekend. You know, the Bengals are a team that I think on the surface, if they want to go All Patriot, that's a place that if Mike Brown says he's willing to go All Patriot, then that might actually be a

better job. But that has to come from a conversation. But look, I don't know what it's going to take for Joss to say yes. I think the situation in New England is, is obviously not as good as it was last year as everybody's a year older. The team certainly isn't as good as it was last year. So I think it's going to be one of those you're going to have to keep looking at. I don't know what's going to get Josh to say yes. I'm not sure anybody knows, including Josh, what it's going to be to say yes. But he's got two interviews. We'll see what happens. I think the team that takes them, it says they want them as their coach. They got to make damn sure he's actually going to show up. And, you know, look, the Patriots play a home game

next weekend, not this weekend next weekend. There's a good chance they win that. There 8-0 at home. And then they play the conference championship game somewhere, could play that at home. I mean, they could get to the Super Bowl of Kansas City. I mean, if they play two home games, Not that I think the Patriots are very good, but they could easily get to the Super Bowl again because of their home schedule and their number two seats. So you might have to wait a while to get them. And I think that's why that becomes problematic.

And it does become a situation where, like you said, and you mentioned the Colts job, where if you are hiring guys but you're having to wait for the end of the season and wait for the Super Bowl, for that decision to be made and for McDaniels to come join your team, there's a chance you get behind the eight ball. And if you have the precedent where he did, of course, back out last season.

And obviously it worked out from the Indianapolis, Coles. Frank Wright comes in and gets them to the playoffs. Everything's fine. Everyone's happy. But you do have to worry about that if you were a team,

just having the precedent already be set there. The final team, I want to talk about a team to get rid of their head coach before we get to the guys that are going to stay with their teams. Todd Boyles and the New York Jets.

Bowles is obviously 4 and 12 this season. We ended up being 24 and 40 during his time with the New York Jets. And the best season came in 2015. They missed the playoffs, even though they won 10 games. But now looking at this team, you have Sam Darno.

It's sort of similar to the Cleveland Brown situation where you do have a quarterback in the building. You do have a foundation to build off of moving forward. So if you lose bowls and you look at this Jets job, and obviously I think this is a job that's actually more appetized than a lot of people are even putting out to the world. And there's been a lot of names that have been floated for it. One of the funniest ones, or I guess I should say the funniest ones, one of the ones that actually shocked me a little bit, despite him taking a job with USC was Cliff Kingsbury was a name that I saw floated. it out there. And I mean, I know how that works with agents. So maybe maybe that was floated for a reason. But do you see like a young guy coming in there and working with Darnold and maybe being able to build something different and new with this New York Jets team? Maybe something like a

Sean McVeerer where you take a chance on a young guy who has some radical ideas and is able to build an offense around this guy, Sam Darnold? I think with the Jets need really as a program. I think they need somebody like I saw today that they thought Matt Ruhle could be a possibility there. And I think Matt Rule done a remarkable job at Baylor, you know, being able to take a team that was almost had the death penalty to win one game to then win a bowl game against Vanderbilt. Pretty remarkable. So I think the Jets need a head coach who could install a program. I wouldn't be shocked if they went a college route. I think Cliff Kingsbury is an interesting name.

I mean, look, everybody's looking for the next Lincoln Riley. Everybody's looking for the next Sean McVeigh. Well, Cliff Kingsbury is that guy with head coaching experience. Now, he needs a really good defensive staff to go with him. but he's a bright offensive mind, and I think that Donald's going to need somebody like that. I think the Jets, you know, Mike McCagan is the general manager. He's going to control everything again.

You know, he's been there. He got hired. He and Bowles came together. Bowles is gone. Mike stays. You know, they're going to, you know, when you look at the Jets, I think anybody, they got a lot of money to spend a free agency, they're a bad team.

Even their free agents last year. I mean, Tramaine Johnson did not play well. I mean, they cut, they cut, uh, they cut Terrell prior. They sign him as a free agent. Isaiah Crowell, very disappointing. I mean, they've got some issues with that team. And, you know, they're going to have to fix that.

And Mike's going to have to say that to people in the interview about his role because he obviously picked all these players. He and Mike, he and Brian Heiminger are going to have to handle that when they, when they sit down with coaches. And I, I think, you know, is it a college coach? I don't know. But I think it's going to be an offensive coach because they need Darnold. They need to get somebody to handle Darnold.

Yeah, so we'll keep an eye on that as that kind of rotates around. I mean, it is interesting because I think Sam Donald is a unique talent, and it does seem like they are very excited about the future with Donald there in New York. So the AFC East, there's a chance for someone to take that job there and maybe try to start something new as we maybe see the latter part of the dynasty with New England Patriots as a chance for a team to make a run there. Talking about coaches who are safe and not on the chopping block, despite some of the reports that they maybe could be.

John Harville with the Ravens comes out that on December, 21st, he would remain head coach in 2019. And they're working on a possible contract extension. We'll see how that plays out. Another guy, Doug McRone, you talked about teams that, you know, were able to keep the same infrastructure at the top. The Jacksonville Jaguars, despite missing the playoffs after making the AFC championship a year ago, they're going to keep Doug Marone as head coach.

They're going to keep Dave Caldwell as a general manager, and they're going to keep Tom Coughlin on staff. So the big three there in Jacksonville will stay on and continue to run operations there. So that's something to keep an eye on as we move forward in the next season. And also the Carolina Panthers. And a lot of people were speculating there's a chance. Ron Rivera and this Panthers team could move away from each other with David Tepper taking over as a new owner.

They come out against the Saints in this game, despite, you know, Camerre doesn't play, Drew Brees doesn't play. We got, you know, young guys out there. Cameron Art of Spain is probably the biggest star of this game. But the Panthers showed up and played well in their finale. And they probably will be saying goodbye to Ryan Khalil, Julius Peppers, and potentially Thomas Davis. just some of the big names out there that have been around with the Carolina Panthers forever. They played hard in that game. And Ron Rivera apparently will stick around moving forward with the Panthers.

So those three coaches all in situations where they were continue to stay with their teams. And you can tell that those franchises believe in the culture that they have installed and built at the moment. Is there any one of those three, Lombardi, that kind of sticks out to you where you're possibly surprised that they are willing to come back? I know Harbaal is a name that a lot of people thought this could be his final hurrah with Ozzie and the Ravens and maybe move on somewhere after being there. 11 seasons, but he will continue to stay on next year. I mean, look at, look at Tafraser. You can see why the, why the Ravens decided to keep John Harbaugh. There's eight jobs open.

John Harbaal will triple his salary if he was a free agent. I mean, he would triple his salary. If they fired John Harbaal, he'd say he's making $8 million, he probably makes $17, $18 million. I mean, think about it. If John Gruden's worth $10 million, what's Sean Payton worth? 20? What's Bill Belichick worth? 25?

Seriously. I mean, no disrespect to John. You know, I mean, John just hired Mike Mayock to be his general manager. You know, good. I'm happy for Mike. I like Mike. Mike lives in Ocean City in the summertime. He and Paul Gunther lived nearby. We always hang out. I always see him have a beer talk. I think it's great. But, you know, John's going to have to rely on Mike to do a lot of scum. People say, well, Mike's never been a GM before. Well, this job for Mike really is going to be more about being a scouting director than a GM. The Raiders are well versed in the cap. They've got Dan Ventrelli, Tom Delaney. Those guys can handle the cap. They can handle the day-to-day operation of the team. All Mike's going to have to do. is really put his blueprint and put his grading system and put his system in place to be in harmony with Gruden.

But so I don't think that's going to be too much of a of a challenge for him to learn that craft as he moves forward. But these other, you know, some of these jobs, I mean, you look at them and you just say like Jacksonville, like I don't know, you know, how Jacksonville sits there and or David Caldwell comes to work and says, you know, this wasn't my mess. Look at the first round picks that are there, they're not there. And David Caldwell is on the A list of potential general managers to be hired. He's on the A list. And he's had one winning season since he's been down there.

And, you know, it just goes through the league. I mean, the problem with the league is nobody knows why they're losing. Everybody thinks they know, but they have no real reason why they're losing. And so they just plain the coach. We end up calling those fall guys. So he ended up pointing, you know, one person out and you say that's the reason we're losing, despite all the guys at the top of the decisions. Like you take the Redskins, for example, there can't be a more dysfunctional team.

Now, they could fire Jay Gruden, which is fine. You could fire them. They're not going to find somebody who's going to put up with the crap that goes on there. I mean, they have no chance to win. They're definitely not one of the eight. I mean, the one thing I think it's pretty clear is these teams that are making all these moves because their organizations are so screwed up. They're not one of the eight, no matter who they hire. And all these coaches are doomed in the future.

I mean, eight jobs open. Do you think there's eight great candidates? I don't see it. It's going to be funny to watch. It really will be. And does that come down to? So if you're one of these teams, is it better to move quicker than to wait it out for a guy like a Josh McDaniels

who has to go through the whole process of, you know, being in the playoffs, you know, with his current team. If you're trying to strike first and get ahead of this, I mean, you're just trying to get a guy quickly. So if someone in the playoffs goes out, you immediately get them on the phone and try to make that move to get ahead of everybody else. Or is it still trying to be? be patient and play the waiting game and trying to fight the right guy because, like you said,

I mean, it is eight jobs and possibly more depending on what happens with, you know, with Jay Gruden as we move forward. So, you know, you kind of have to get ahead of everybody else to try to get the guy that you want and everyone's kind of fighting for, you know, the same four or five guys. Yeah, I mean, look, the problem is, is, look at the list. You never know what people want, right? They want, they want often, you know, it's all about different things and they never really know what they want. So there's no symmetry. Like if you know what you're looking for, you can find it. Like here's what I'm, here's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for, uh, these qualities and this type of coach. And then you go find it. It's like writing a book.

If you don't write a paragraph about what the book's about before you start writing a book and then go back to it every day, you're going to get off track. Most of these teams just get off track. So I think, yeah, moving quicker is better. I think when you look at the Detroit situation, for example, Detroit's, they fire Jim Bob Cooter or they had. mutually agreed that they're going to part ways. But the reality here is is that, you know, when when Matt Patricia took over that job in February, he had to put together a makeshift staff. So now he's going to adjust the staff. You know, it's hard when you get these jobs late to get the right staff together. And that's what causes changes when you come through it. So the quicker

you can put your staff together, the quicker you can get this thing handled, the better off you are. And then you can start getting assistance and start building the right staff. So if I'm the Jets or If I'm Arizona who's did it last year, they've gone through this before, you would think they would act pretty quickly. Or like Cleveland, who's known that they've had an opening or Green Bay. You know, you've known this. There's 14. You've got to act quick. You got to know what you want, identify it and hire it.

And, I mean, another team that is going to do that. I mean, they're not going to make a change at the absolute top with Dan Quinn. But the Falcons are, you know, we talked about Steve Sarkisian ad nauseum on this program and what he has not been able to provide for Matt Ryan after having his MVP. and after Kyle Shanahan moved on. But Sharkeesian is now out. They also fire Manuel, their defensive coordinator, and they also fire the special teams coordinator, Keith Armstrong. So now, you know, the Falcons are a team that are out of the playoffs.

You know, obviously they have time and operational time to try to find that next guy. I mean, there's been a lot of reports at Darrell Bevel, who was obviously with the Seahawks back with Dan Quinn. When he was a defensive coordinator there, a lot of people were saying there's a chance that he may bring him in. But the Falcons are a team, like you mentioned with the Brown, or the Jets or one of these teams that, you know, we're out of the playoffs. We're completely done. We have wrapped up our 2018 season.

So now we're moving toward the future. And we're going to try to label and find these guys that fit into our program. And as we move forward, we can make the big name splashes with some of these coordinator hires. So we can move forward and get guys buying into who we're going to be in the future and get them in the building so they can start bringing out and planning out their program as they move forward. Yeah, no doubt. I mean, and that's what you've got to do. You've got to act quick, but you've got to know what you're looking for. I mean, you've got to know what you're looking for and you've got to be able to hire it and go quick.

And if you do that, you can. but the longer it drags out, then if you're not sure what you're looking for, then it's hard to find it because you keep searching and you'll never get it. Yep. One more thing I do want to point out as far as guys that may not necessarily be back with their teams as we move into the 29th season. We have the Giants GM, Dave Gettelman, comes out and he says, we will not commit to Eli Manning as a 2019 starter.

I don't know how many times I've seen this story or this headline written in a certain way where one time, two weeks, you know, when he has a good game, they say Eli Manning will be back for 2019. Then when he has a bad game, you will not be back for 2019. Obviously, there's mixed signals coming out of New York. But looking at that situation, Eli Manning was a guy that you did not necessarily believe should be the quarterback going into this season with Sequin Barclay and OBJ after he got his contract. I mean, it didn't seem like it was going to fit a workout.

Obviously didn't for that team. But as Eli, as you come to this year, I mean, when do you make that decision? Because you have to make that decision sooner rather than later, because if you let it linger, then you get in a world in which you know, you're missing out on guys that you can possibly sign or trade for and try to find a real chance to contend in that NFC East. I think what get them in saying is, look, Eli's going to be back.

We're going to draft a quarterback. We're going to sign a quarterback. There's going to be competition. I'm not giving them anything like I gave him last year. And if we draft the quarterback, he'll probably play one more year here and we'll pass the baton and we'll move forward. I think that's really what he's saying. He's not going to give up Eli until he gets somebody better

or he thinks he can get somebody, you know, whether it's Joe Flacco, whether it's whomever. You know, Teddy Bridgewater, I mean, Teddy Bridgewater is not going to the Giants. But, you know, if it's who is it, you know, and I think that's going to come down to it. And I think that, I think that that's what will happen. The team we didn't talk about is Miami. You know, the Adam Gays firing was, I mean, Tanembaum getting fired was like nobody really

at the salt. I mean, that was like every, you know, you know, Tanibom's made a career out of convincing people that he knows the Patriot program because he was in it for a little bit of the time when, you know, the closest he got to understand the Patriot program was when he read my book. Like that's actually, you know, the closest he could get to it. So now they cast him aside and Gase is sitting there who really needed a lot of help as a head coach. I mean, now Gase is going to interview in Arizona. I mean, to me, I think Miami, I don't know what to make of the Miami job. There's layers. You got Bobby Greer's son, Chris Greer as a primary decision maker. I don't

know what the owner wants to do. The owner is kind of off and off on Tanty. I mean, the team is not very good. I thought we talked this summer. I thought they would have the first pick in the draft. People laughed at me. There are some people picked them going to the playoffs, you know, and they got off to a three and oh start and what do they end up, what, seven and seven and nine and, you know, I mean,

you got off to a three and oh start and went four nine the rest of the years. So they're not very good. I mean, I think that's going to be a hard job because I'm not sure what you have. You don't have a quarterback and you don't have an owner who's very patient. Those are not too good combinations. And it also, I mean, it is kind of, you know, if you were a coach like Adam Gase, who was a hot ticket in name as far as, you know, we mentioned some of the teams that we want to bring him in. He goes down to Miami. You know, he's there for three seasons.

You know, he has some ups and some down, some good moments. Obviously, you mentioned starting out so well this year. But now he's not getting some of the interviews that may, he may, you know, would have gotten three years ago because he goes down to Miami. And now he's sort of not tarnished his reputation, of course. But, you know, it kind of does, it sets you back a little bit. And obviously there are ebbs and flows ups and downs and the hiring process with a lot of these coaches. But that is something to keep an eye on. If you are a young head coach that has a lot of promise, you don't want to go down to Miami

and be in a situation that's in flux. And it hurts you and your chance to have, you know, future earning potential, you know, as a head coach in the NFL. So that is something also that I'm sure teams and agents will keep an eye on because Gase was a guy that was, you know, beloved by a lot of GMs around the league. And we'll see what happens with him moving forward. Well, you know, Gase has got Gase's sponsorships. is Peyton Manning.

I mean, that's his sponsorship. So, you know, the Browns, like I told you, Jimmy hasn't wanted them bad. Now he doesn't want them at all.

That's really weird. You know, Elway's had them and doesn't want them. You know, it's like these movements like, okay, like I talked about the beginning of the pot. Steve Kime loves Brian Flores,

not interviewing them now. Like really, seriously, like who's making the plans for these teams? Like, everything is just lying out of them. Everything is just day to day. There's no sustainable plan.

Like, if somebody showed me there's a blueprint to some of these teams, I would say, okay, I get it. And then everybody says, well, Lombardi, you're too negative. The reason I'm too negative is because Bill Walsh said this. We're only competing against eight. The reason there's so many openings is because that is so true.

These teams aren't in any position to be able to, unless they change their organizational culture, they have no chance to win. They have no chance to win. The Redskins won't win. The Cardinals until they change their organizational, their culture, they won't win. I mean, it's just not going to happen. It's just never going to happen. happen. And where they can keep replacing coaches, the Packers culture at one time was now they're

going to move to another culture type. The Jets is the same thing. They need a culture builder at the Jets. That's what they need. You know, they're worried about Sam, Darnold, which is all fair, but they better get somebody in to be a head coach because the head coaching position in the NFL is a lost art. Very few people can do it. Yeah. And it's, it's interesting too because you talked about the culture that was with the Packers with Mike McCarthy. Mike McCarthy now interviewing with the Jets. I mean, there's a chance that he could go to New York and bring in that culture that he built with Green Bay there with Sam Darno. So that's something to also to keep an eye on. One last story before we get out of here.

And, of course, we will be back on Friday to preview all the wildcard games this weekend. So that's something to keep an eye on as well. But Big Ben came out and said Antonio Brown has not returned. His calls or texts that's been reported that Antonio Brown is asking for a trade out of Pittsburgh. He went through a walkthrough in Sunday's finale and then ended up not playing in that game. And a lot of people were pointing to the fact that, you know, he wants to. to be out of Pittsburgh. Just this situation as a franchise, if you're Mike Tomlin,

Mike Tomlin is sort of dismissed it, said it's been a little bit of a distraction, been more than it should be, more of a headache than it should be. But if you're a team who is looking for that game breaker-wide receiver and you hear about this situation, if you are a team like the Carolina Panthers, or if you are a team like, you know, let's say the Miami Dolphins or whoever may be there, you wanted to make a big splashy signing or a big trade in this offseason. And if you're the suit and you're tired of putting up with this head, headache of Antonio Brown.

Is there a chance that a team could go in and try to make a trade for him and do something before the draft? Zero chance. Zero chance. I mean, the cap money is ridiculous. The same thing with Odell Beckham. The zero.

They're not trading O'Dell Beckham. They're not traded Antonio Brown. They'll be talked about it all the time. The contracts won't let you trade them. So people say the NFL doesn't have guaranteed contracts. Well, they kind of do. You know, it's called year to year. And these are pretty massive and they take 21 million away from the Steeler cap.

I think the Beckham deal will take. take it away. Look, this is the bed they laid him. When they gave Brown the money, they knew who he was as a person. This is the bed they're going to lay in. The same thing with Beckham. The Giants have nobody to blame for the situation they're in, but the New York Giants. Because the New York Giants refuse to listen to voices of dissenting that are outside. They refused to hear that Eli couldn't play anymore. They refused to believe that they keep thinking they're this great team that's so close. And once and again, they're five and 11. We just do the, just do the, the total, the win totals over the last five years for some of these teams, including like the Cardinals.

I mean, it's just comical that the Cardinals have this notion that they're this great team. They went to the conference championship game and got blown out, right? You know, and so like, but that's all they remember. Remember this, Tate Fraser. Remember when's the lowest form of conversation we can have according to Tony Soprano. So like, it's just remarkable. Like do a five year study of where you are or where you've been. The giants, they're hard five years.

they're horrible. The Redskins, five years, they're horrible. Like, it's no secret. Like, get people in your building that'll tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear. Like, the fact that they're asking him questions about Eli and he's dodging them is a joke. He knows he now realizes a year later that Eli's probably towards the end. Oh, really? Remember, we get paid to realize too soon, not too late. That's the expertise of an executive. You know, you know Trent Richardson's not a good player. If we trade them now, we'll get something. If we wait six weeks, I can remember walking in a batter's office and said,

if we don't trade fucking Jet Trent Richardson right now, we'll get nothing for him. And once we saw it, we could do it. And you got people that could see it. But this league's filled with everybody just wants to protect themselves. Like Jacksonville, they went to practice every fucking week and watch David Calwell, watch watch Cody Kessler and watch Blake Bortles and now he's going to rebuild the team.

He went out there. He knows Jalen Ramsey, who he is as a human being. Drafted him. They're going to get rid of. They're going to dump him. He knew Leonard Fortinette, don't dump him.

I mean, at some point, like, how do you sit there and say, you know, I'm as accountable with this as anything? Yeah,

it's one thing to say. It's another thing to be about it. I think a lot of, a lot of that we've seen. You've got to be joined at the hip with these guys. You've got to come in. John Snyder comes in with Pete Carroll. they're joined at the hip.

That's how you win in this league. You know, Mike Tanabombs down there to, I know the Patriot Way. He don't know one thing about the Patriot Way. He couldn't understand one thing. In fact, if you brought that conversation up to Belichick,

I would pay to, to broadcast that reaction. It's a comedy. Well, maybe he knows the way after watching all the, he only knows the way from reading the book. Like, he has no clue.

Yeah. It's a, it's interesting. that anticipation, both in the game itself and outside the game if you're in a managerial position, anticipation is everything. And if you were able to anticipate and get ahead of things and realize and try to connect the pieces and play the game of chess, it works both in the front office and, of course, on the field itself. So those are two things that keep an eye on. I'm going to do one award for Week 17 before we got out of here. And if you don't know,

Lombardi, looking at the 2018 regular season. I mean, you kind of just laid out a lot of things that we do know But if there's one thing, we say, if you don't know, now you know, the 2018 regular season in the NFL, is there something that we particularly know after what we've seen this entire year? I said it at the beginning of the year. This is the most fertile time in the NFL in terms of young quarterbacks. And that was before Mahomes is going to become the MVP of the league. But where we are now with quarterbacks in the NFL, with the way that Mahomes has played, Deshaun Watson's come back and played well. I mean, we are at a perfect storm of a lot of talented young quarterbacks. and I think it's only going to get better.

And I think it's a great in the rate in football, as much as some people think the NBA's taking over football comedy, right? The NBA, the NFL is going to, we're not going to know what the NFL was in three years. Like, no, stop. Okay, the NFL is a really popular. Watch how more popular it becomes in recent weeks, because the college playoff system is a joke.

And until they fix that, it ain't going to happen. It's going to continue that way. So the pro game has never been more popular. and it's going to continue that way. And if we could ever get the Redskins, which is one of the greatest franchises in the NFL's history ever turned around, it'll be even better. Yep.

And that is something to keep on eye on. You mentioned the playoffs. We do have Clemson. We have Alabama that's going to be this Monday night for the national title up in Santa Clair, California. So that's something to keep it out. We get dab over, Nick Sabin.

We saw Lincoln Riley and Brian Kelly leave on not so harmonious times with their games against those two teams. Does it do anything, Lombardi, four years in a row to have these two teams kind of battling it out for the top? I mean, does that hurt college football at all? Do you enjoy the fact that we both know that Clemson and Alabama are by far, as far as programs, culture and what they've been able to build with Davo and Nick Sabon, those are the two top programs in college football?

So we do want to see them play each other. I know some people were upset saying that, you know, they're kind of tired of it and all this sort of stuff. But is that something for you that you see or do you appreciate the fact that you do have these two guys who have built such great programs at these two schools. You know, I think, I think to me, nobody gets tired of watching good football. And I think if these are the two teams are the best football, we're all going to enjoy it. I think what people get tired of is what's happening in college football.

Guys aren't playing in the bowl games. The bowl games aren't as good. And I think it's just trickling down. I think they're going to have to do something about it, you know, and I think it's going to have to change. Yep. And we'll keep an eye on that. We'll obviously be back on Friday.

We'll do our preview of all the NFL wildcard games. we'll do a full breakdown. We'll do our Friday forecast, which we're very excited to do as we get into the wildcard weekend. And also, as we come back on next Tuesday, we will probably wrap up the national title game at the top of the show and talk about what we saw in that Clemson, Alabama game. Any more thoughts to Lombardi before we get out of here? That's it, Tate, Frazier. Happy New Year, my man. Enjoy.

Happy New Year. We appreciate everyone that's listening to GM Street throughout this entire regular season. We're excited for all things in 2019 and for the playoffs that are ahead. Again, appreciate all you listening. And we will see you on Friday. Thank you.