The Ringer NFL Show - Looking Ahead to the 2020 Season With Adam Lefkoe. Plus: Underrated NFL Draft Prospects | The Ringer NFL Show

Episode Date: April 2, 2020

Bleacher Report’s Adam Lefkoe joins the show to talk about how COVID-19 will affect 2020 NFL training camps as well as the regular season, and how hard it will be for teams to hit the ground running when the season begins (1:05). Then, The Ringer’s draft expert Danny Kelly joins the show to offer up the prospects we’re not talking about enough, including QB Jalen Hurts, WRs Brandon Aiyuk and Bryan Edwards, cornerback Jeff Gladney, and more (37:45). Hosts: Kevin Clark Guests: Adam Lefkoe and Danny Kelly Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Redeem at DC Universe.com. slash join. Join for a free seven-day trial. Visit DCuniverse.com slash join. It's the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Kevin Clark. Great show today. Two guests I love. We have Danny Kelly to talk draft specifically the guys we're not talking enough about. Really interesting discussion. I learned a lot. I feel a lot smarter having done it. And we have Adam Lefco from Leachre Report and Turner. One of my favorite people in media. Let's get to Adam. Okay, we have Adam Lefco.

One of my favorite people in, I was going to say football media, but you're in every sport at this point. Adam, you're the host of Tuesday nights on TNT MBA, which we all miss very much. You did. The one, I will say this, I'm very, very rarely jealous professionally of anybody.

I think we're all very lucky to do our job. Yeah. When you were chopping it up with Phil Mickelson and Tiger Woods, that was the one thing where I was like, I wish I was on that stage. And what's funny is they weren't even in the top two people there. Like Phil Mickelson and Tigerwood's short, but I was also with Samuel L. Jackson and Charles Barkley.

You know, like sitting next to Samuel L. Jackson and he looks over and he goes, Adam. And my first, I went, he knows my name. And then he goes, these guys suck. And I was like, they do suck Samuel L. Jackson. What a conversation. Yeah, dude, it was wild. Wow.

Do you want those guys to play again? These rumors now that they might pair up with Brady and Manning now. Ooh, they need more people out there. I still wish people could have heard Samuel L. Jackson, Pat Perez, and Charles Barkley talking the entire time because what they were saying was comedy. But they needed, you know, the social lubricant to talk a little bit more. But I don't, Manning is good. I don't know if Brady will be good for that.

I'll be short. I did a piece of years ago on Manning and about how much trash. Not necessarily trash he talks, but what he liked to do was take his rookie lineman or rookie receivers out golfing and kind of micromanage them just to get them up to them up to speed on how he acts in practice. Like, I mean, if you play golf with Peyton Manning, you're going to understand how to practice with Peyton Manning because he's telling you exactly what to do. He's telling you where to put the put the putt, all that stuff. So he liked to do that sort of thing at the rookie golf outing. So I always thought that was interesting. I did like

Kyle Porter had an idea from CBS that to spice it up, you have Tiger and Phil. And then each guy gets paired with one of Obama. Trump. That's how you raise money for coronavirus. Yeah, if that's possible, that'll take it over the top. So I actually heard this. Mahomes has been golfing like all off season before all this happened. Now he's obviously quarantined. But I heard on one of the trips, one of the person, people in his foursome was Jim Nance. And I hear that apparently Jim Nance will broadcast your strokes while you're golfing. I know Mahomes was like, bro, it's crazy because like you line up and he goes, Mahomes from 160 looking for Bertie.

And they just couldn't handle it. They were like dying laughing. So I recently saw some videos of this, of Nance calling this, and they were on somebody's phone. Some people, like golf writers that put them on Twitter and stuff, but there was someone who showed me this that was in their cell phone. And what killed me was exactly what you're said, you know, Mahomes from 160. But the funniest thing he does is he does a pitch perfect.

he'll throw promos in there. It'll be like so-and-so from 160. Take a break right now. We have a wonderful CSI on Sunday. And he just crushes it and then he seamlessly goes back into the stroke. Jim Nance is a pro. All right. So like you mentioned me doing MBA.

The thing is is when you watch the best broadcasters that can go from sport to sport, it doesn't even seem like they're human. Like Toriko, Nance, Ernie. I would even say like Kevin Harlan, there's a, Dan Patrick, like they get on and they have like that Ryan Seacrest vibe where you go, I don't know if I've ever seen them make a mistake. Like they just seem so perfect. And it's just wild because they can do it from the green at your local course to Augusta.

And it doesn't matter. All right. Well, I could talk about Jim Mance and Ryan Seacrest all day. But we're going to get to football because you host a very excellent football podcast called the Lefco show. Used to be Sims and Lefco. And now and now you guys. are dead weight and now we're killing it.

Yeah, he's just kicked him out. He kicked him out. And so I want to talk to you about this season and the weirdness of it all and what's going to happen once we get games. So the NFL says it's business as usual. I don't, you know, first of all, OTAs will be canceled. I think that there will be training camp at some point, you know, the fan stuff is interesting to me whether or not they, I would assume that the first thing that goes is, you know,

not only open training camps, but probably some preseason games. as well, Hall of Fame game type stuff. I don't think it's going to be business usual, but I also don't think they're going to cancel the season. If you think about knowing, you know, we both know NFL players, you both know how they operate, we both know just how either how locked in they get, you know, during OTAs or whatever,

and then they have their Fourth of July lull. How does this change things when we think about just they're not, almost like 2011 where there's a lockout, but it's a little different because we don't know anything about the future. How does this change the 2020 season? First, I'm like taking aback at the brashness of the NFL right now. And I always go back to the Mark Cuban quote about, you know, pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered because the NFL is literally the only entity right now that's like,

it's business as usual. By the way, the schedule comes out May 9th by season tickets. It's crazy. So I feel like they are, they're like, oh, we're a fall sport. We're good. And I think in terms of like real football, I think a lot. a lot of the new coaching staffs are in trouble. And three of them are in the NFC East,

like Giants, Dallas, Washington, Carolina, and Cleveland. Like, those are new coaches. And they usually get extra time and now they're getting less time. I'm hearing people say it's not going to affect scouting. It's not going to affect the draft. They say, yeah, you know what? How about the draft from the Pittsburgh Steelers back in 1974? He did that without a combine.

And I'm like, it's 1974. There's a reason you're going back that far. I think that players themselves, a lot of them, because of Tom Brady, because of Lombron James, are investing in big-time home gyms and nutritionists, where I think when this first started, I know a lot of guys that were getting two to three weeks of meals prepared for them. I think that the at-home in terms of keeping their bodies in shape, now I think there's a lot of dudes that really take the off-season kind of easy.

And it's going to be harder for them to come back. But I think about coaching staffs and just, I don't know, the way the NFL is pushing along, like there's no issue, I have a feeling that, you know, come September when we're trying to file in for preseason games, it's going to be messy. Do you think this is something Chris Long and I talked about on Sloan Newsday, he thinks it is an advantage for a team like the chiefs. I think the one thing he said that I didn't even think about was when you win a Super Bowl and he has, you're strangely just kind of ble about football after because you just got so much of it.

And you're just kind of not, you know, you're still, you don't want to say a Super Bowl hangover, but you're still in, I won the Super Bowl mode. And he thinks that this is actually going to help the Chiefs in the sense that they're going to be football starved. They're not going to be able to go into OTAs. And, you know, if someone wanted to sleepwalk through those, that's not going to happen because they're just not going to happen. And so I think that there's going to kind of be a recharge there. I think it'll favor teams like the Ravens who are just, you know, we know what they are and they're at it, they're only adding veterans. And I also see the, the idea that maybe things are going to be so weird. There might be just so much randomness because there's not training camp that that maybe there's a couple of surprises. But I am inclined to think it's going to favor more of the chiefs and the Ravens than a more kind of random team that might get, might get lucky because the season's going to be so sloppy. I think you're, look at the offseasons of Patrick Holmes. After his first offsees, in the big storylines where Patrick Mahomes turns down endorsements to focus on football.

Last offseason, I mean, Patrick Mahomes did, he did as many commercials as Baker Mayfield. They were just local in Kansas City. You don't have him going on a media tour. You don't have him doing commercials. There is no distraction. You know, you're not even getting, you're not getting anything. These guys are locked at home. I agree with you guys completely about Kansas City.

The other team, though, that I think has wild consistency is the Saints. I think of all the teams in the NFL. They added Emmanuel Sanders, but they kept all of their other running backs, wide receivers. They got all of their offensive lineback. They have all of their D-lineback. They added A.J. Klein. And now when you add Malcolm Jenkins,

who already knows that team and knows Sean Payton, for me, I'm very inclined right now as it's March, or excuse me, April 1st, 2020 to say, like, the Saints are my Super Bowl pick in April 1st. I just, the consistency, the year for Drew Breeze to go out in style, he finally has a number two. And with all this craziness, I think Sean Peyton and Drew Breeze are made to start hot. I completely agree with you. It's one of those things.

I've talked to a lot of old quarterbacks who went into advanced age, where that's Matt Hasselbecker, Rich Gannon, or whomever. And they said that the best argument for keeping a coordinator or a play caller and a quarterback together for the long haul is that they have an institutional knowledge where Drew Breed, can go up to Sean Payton on a Monday and say, hey, we ran this play in 2008. Let's just do this again. And you don't get that if you're a new quarterback or a new coach or a young quarterback or a young coach. I mean, the ability to hit the ground running is going to be so massive this year.

And Breeze and Payton can definitely do that. It'll be interesting. All right, I want to talk about what happens once we have a season because I think that the biggest thing last year, even though Brady's going to Tampa, even though we just sang the virtues of Drew Breeze. I think the biggest thing that happened last year was the passing of the torts between the generation I kind of called the forever quarterback, Brady, Breeze, Rivers, obviously Peyton Manning's out, Carson Palmer's out, that kind of crew.

And some of the guys who retired before that. And Elon Manning. I believe he is no longer the highest paid player in history of football, but he's still in the top three. Who passed him? Over the cap guy said Drew Breeze passed. him last year. Without a doubt, Breeze is going to pass them this year. There's some,

there's some debate about the leaderboard, but no matter what happens, Breeze in 2020 will become the highest paid player in history. But then the over-the-cap guy says that already happened. Jason Fitzger. Interesting. Okay. Either way, a lot of money flowing in his pockets, especially Eli Manning.

And they really only made four times Chase Daniel, which is incredible. I want to talk about this. Are you worried? because I am, that Chase Daniels' podcast can be so good that we're all going to lose our jobs. No, I think you're crazy. When you respond, you're like, Chase is the man. I was like, look, Chase Daniel is to me, he's known for taking Drew Breese's itinerary, going to the Chiefs with it, going to Nick Foles, being this incredible locker room.

I'm reading articles right now about Gary Pinkle saying, check out his record, you know, like 11 of the, eight of the 11 years, he's been the league, his team's gone to the playoffs. And I'm like, he's a winner. I'm like, come on, guys. It's, is Drew Brees and Carson Wentz? What do you guys talk? I don't know. I think that his ability to want a day where there was a million quarterback

storylines, it was a week where Tom Brady goes to the buck, Sillop Rivers goes to the Colts, Cam Newton gets released, one of the busiest quarterback weeks in history. And our guy just calmly and quietly collected $13 million. That was my favorite thing too is that Patricia said, you want to have winners in the locker room like Chase Daniel, because if I'm getting down to my final 50, I'm taking Chase Daniel over Darius Lay every day. It's just sometimes the rhetoric is insane.

Could you imagine like Matt Stafford practicing next to Chase Daniel? Like one of the best arms in the history of football against Chase Daniel and Matt Patricia called Chase Daniel a winner. Chase Daniel has made $34 million in his career. And at the end of this contract, if he lives to see it, from a football standpoint, it will be $47 million. I love it. The Kirk Cousins of Backups. Just a king. Just a king.

All right. So let's play a game here because I think that the passing of the torch has happened to the younger generation. I think that there is, I think that that's fluid. And I think that you might see, you know, on January 1st of last year, people were talking about Lamar Jackson. And in a weird way, they'd almost forgotten about Patrick Mahomes. That reversed itself. In fact, Greg Bishop from Sports Illustrated went to Kansas City in December and literally wrote

like, I'm still here story interviewing Patrick Mahomes. as people had just forgotten about how good he was. And part of that was the injury. Part of that was just the weird year. Part of that was just how dynamic Lamar Jackson was. I want to play a game here. So I want to go, who do we think is the best quarterback after this year? Who do we think it's going to be in five years and ten years?

And I also think that we can't pick the same person for more than one thing. So you have to prioritize. Take me through the next 10 years of quarterbacking, Adam Lefco. Oh, you want to start off with 10 first? No, no, we'll go one first. Okay, well, move up. Because I can't pick the same guy. So for me, this is a draft.

You want to pick Mahomes for all three, don't you? Kind of, but I really like my other ones. Okay, go ahead. For one year, I am going to take Drew Breeze. And I'm not saying it's going to be the best quarterback play, but the reason is, one, he's desperate, right? One, we're going for a title. Two, Tom Brady is now in his division.

And he is a few thousand yards ahead of him, six touchdown passes ahead. when you only count regular season. We know the statistics matter. And he finally has Emmanuel Sanders and in my mind the most consistent offensive line play, barring injury, but they're all back right now. I feel like when I look at Drew,

I want him for one year. And I'm not even a big Drew Breeze guy. Like I will get in a fight with Saints fans online about how I'm not sure he's a top 10 quarterback. Like I get a little crazy, but I want him for one year. For five years, I'm going Kyler Murray.

I'm going, Carla Murray. I love that. I know I'm going to have DeAndre Hopkins for at least two or three. I think Larry Fitzgerald's crazy enough to maybe even give me two more. I don't even think he's a top guy, but having him in the locker room with other wide receivers is huge. I also think the meat of Kyler Murray's contract allows me to flesh out that O line, talent around him, get more defense than there. I think that they've had a pretty good offseason already. But I just think you get what I want, which is three years on a row.

cookie deal so I can spend all the money elsewhere and I was so impressed. And then I'm going my homes for 10 because I know that I'm going to get Andy Reed for at least five, six, seven more of those years. I think that Patrick Mooms is the most talented quarterback of all time. And everyone's talking about how all the free agents want to flock down to Tampa Bay. I look up and I see DeMarcus Robinson re-signing with the Chiefs for like pennies on the dollar. I was hoping the Eagles were going to sign that guy. And they got him as their fourth wide receiver. Look at the roster. I mean, the line is back. The weapons are back. It's me called. It's, it's everybody. And Chris Jones is still on the team, but all of that plus Mahomes, I want him for as long as I can

get him. Yeah, I was good. I'd pick Mahomes for 20 years at this point. And if, if we wanted to be boring, we would just, you could pick Patrick Mahomes for all of these things. I think for one year, and I think that this, he has the case to be five years and quite frankly has the case to be 10 years. But I think the infrastructure Baltimore is built around Lamar Jackson, right? now is so unbelievable. And the Eric DeCostate team building job is so good. And his ability to Lamar's ability to capitalize on that. And I think he was one of the, you know, one of the smartest players in football last year. I think that what's interesting to me is that everything, that Baltimore did such a good job coaching him, that Baltimore did such a good job building around him.

that I think he in a weird way gets, I think I want him right now. And what I'm intrigued to see is what happens if, if, and maybe Eric Takasca becomes the best gym, but like Ozzy Newsom was, and we never see him on a bad team. But I'm intrigued to see what happens

if he gets kind of a Russell Wilson situation where he just doesn't get help one year. And we have to see Lamar Jackson where he doesn't have one of the best team-building jobs last decade around him. And I think he can be really, good. I just don't think he's the MVP in that situation. So having said that, Lamar Jackson, who I just absolutely adore as a football player, I want him for the 2020 season. I actually think

that he's probably going to be top three again in the MVP conversation along with Mahomes. And this is why I'm going to say my next guy, because I think this guy's going to be good for the next five years too. It's Russell Wilson. And part of that is, I think Kyler is an amazing option here. And I think it's a good reasoning. And I think, Cliff Kingsbury, his ability to adapt as a season went along was unbelievable. Not unbelievable is a stretch, but surprising. How about that? And I think that there's a lot going right in Arizona.

But I think that Russell Wilson's ability to compete when his own team was stacking the deck against him, suggests that he's going to be able to continue to have sustained success. Now, the contract is what it is. He's going to make next four years, every year's under 40, which is okay. And I think that in a year, in an era where, Jared Goff's making 36 this year. I think cap hits of 31, 32, 37, and 39 are fine. That takes up to the 2024 season when he'd be a free agent again, and we'll see where that goes.

But he's going to be 31 through 34 during that contract. I think he's going to age gracefully. I think he's such a smart quarterback. I'm taking Russell Wilson for five years. And then 10 years, I'm with you. Give me my homes for as long as we can possibly have Mahomes. What's incredible about Russell Wilson is the Aaron Rodgers had to get hurt for him to move on from a very conservative coach because the team did so

poorly. And that's never happened with Russell Wilson. So we've kept the same guys there and the same mantra of running the ball and pounding the ball. And one of the things that I use every year when I'm picking records for the following year is I look at scores in one score games. It's very known that this is a regression stat that if you're incredible in one score games in one year, it'll probably go back. Like 2018, the Chargers and Cowboys were like nine and two and one score games. This past year, they were like two and nine. But the one team that bucks that trend every year is the Seahawks. And in my mind, the only reason it's because of Russell Wilson. They were like seven and three and one score games. Two years ago, they were nine and two last year. Every game

was Russell Wilson at the end making a play. And with consistency with Russ and Pete, it's, Ross is my favorite quarterback to watch in the NFL. It's just incredible how long he's been carrying him. And I always wonder how much better they could have been if there was more around him, like an O line. Oh, like an O. I mean, at least the line around Ross has gotten a little bit better. The philosophy around him hasn't.

I mean, it's almost, it's unbelievable. I remember someone once told me the rules of a sitcom are you spend 20 minutes getting your character in hot water and then spend 10 minutes getting him out. out, right? That's how you write a sitcom. And that seems to also be just the Seahawks game strategy, which is just like, let's see how we can not utilize Russell Wilson to the best of his abilities and get him in a one score game with the damn Cardinals or something or something like that. And where they're underachieving or playing down to the level with their competition, and then we'll give him a few minutes to make some unbelievable plays and he normally does.

I mean, I wish, I think he's appreciated because he won that Super Bowl and because, He's a genuinely likable guy, and I think that people, you know, tend to gravitate towards him. But as a football player, I feel like in a strange way, he doesn't get enough credit for the ability to overcome some of the obstacles put in his way by people who, but people like Pete Carroll who can, who I think is still a really good coach. He just, I just, I just don't think his philosophy jives with what, what, what, what Russell Wilson should be doing. I just wish that every quarterback could get two years with Kyle Shadahan, just so we. could see like the peak of their height and then we can really compare them because russell wilson in the second year with kyle shanahan would be the greatest offense that the world's ever known is that is russell wilson your number one i want to see him coached by kyle shanahan guy

oh yeah because then what he could do with like the read option like we we've seen a lot of kyle shanahan with matt ryan uh we saw him turn uh matt shob into a stud but what he did with that one year of RG3, to me, it shook us to our core. Like, even Matt Ryan putting up all those stats with the Falcons, it was great. I mean, he had a huge year with the Browns. I mean, he was doing big things with Brian Hoyer and Johnny Mansell. So for me, Russell Wilson is definitely up there. We're past, I mean, Mahomes is number one for anything.

And then I look at guys that I want to be saved right now. And if anyone could hit the escape button for Deshaun Watson, I'd love it. God, Deshaun Watson's my number one. Let's get him coached by anybody who's not his current coach guy. I mean, offensively, he is private Ryan, and we must do what we need to break him out of there. I think that Bill O'Brien might be the luckiest man ever. And stay with me, I think that he's been really trying to destroy this team.

And then every year, he's just so lucky they make the playoffs. I think we're actually looking at wrong. He's trying to mess it up, but he can't because he's the luckiest. man alive. He is, he's very, very much, I think he may have succeeded this year. I think DeAndre Hopkins to Arizona. And the other thing that I don't understand about the Hopkins trade is if you're going to, if you're saying that he's, he is, you need to get him out or whatever. If you say, he's become such a distraction or whatever, you got to get him out of town, whatever. But don't trade him to Cliff Kingsbury and Kyler Murray. And where they're going to go.

and spread it out and he's going to get a trillion yards. And I saw Mike Sando on the athletic had a piece today. And he had an anonymous scout or an executive kind of say that the word is the Hopkins skills have slightly diminished the last couple of years, his physical skills. And that might be true, but his numbers are probably going to go up because, I mean, they're going to be throwing the ball over the place. That's a wide open offense. I think Bill O'Brien traded him into a very bad place if you wanted him to have some bad

numbers. There's a lot worse quarterbacks and a lot worse offensive coaches that I would have traded him to if all I wanted was a second round pick and a mediocre running back. Right. I don't know where David Johnson is in terms of his athletic ability, but also it's a second round pick in a year where you're not having pro days, in a year where you can't meet with players, and in a year where you're suddenly the GM, your scouting departments all over the place, the value of that second round pick now is so muddled. So in our in our trade mind, we go, oh, that aligns with Jimmy Johnson's values. But right now I look at it and go,

there's even more doubt about a team that got absolutely hosed by the Eagles when they traded up to get Andre Dillard last year. Like that was the flub of the draft. And now you're giving away Hopkins for a running back that we don't know and a second round pick in a year that we have no idea. It's Bill O'Brien. It is Bill O'Brien. All right, I want to talk about the NFCEs so quick.

You are an Eagles fan. Are you, I see this right? You're Twitter, you're streaming Madden games this week? Yeah, so Bleach Report is doing the BR Goat Sims, where they're putting the best player in the history of the team's franchise at each position. So for the Giants, it'll be like Michael Strayhan, Lawrence Taylor, all those guys.

And yeah, I'm going to go hard. Like, I'm going to wear a blazer. It's going to be on the Bleach Report Twitch Report Twitch stream. But also, I just, I want to do play by play. I'm in my apartment. I need to talk. It has to happen. So you're, the Eagles.

and Giants is the next one up. In real life, that's not much of a competition. But I want to talk about the NFC East because on this podcast, we default towards overrating the Eagles. That's my fault. That's my co-host, Robert Mays's fault. We picked them to win the Super Bowl last year,

and we regretted it almost from the moment the season started. From an Eagles fan, a very educated Eagles fan, where should I be picking the Eagles this year? So if we're looking at, Looking at the NFC as a whole, in my mind, the two teams that are definitely staying in the playoffs for the Niners and Saints. The Niners had so many injuries and they were still there. In terms of teams, I think, could fall out, I think the Vikings, teams that I have doubt of, but it's still Russell Wilson and their Rogers, it's Packers and Seahawks.

I see the Eagles kind of right where they were last year fighting with the Cowboys for the NFC East. and then it's almost like fighting with the bucks if they don't get it for the wild card. I see them a little bit ahead of the Cardinals, Falcons, Lions, Giants, Rams. But I see them, man, I got questions about wide receiver still. You know, this Alshan situation is a mess. And Howie Roseman, look, this is the best wide receiver draft in years, but he took Arthago Whiteside last year over Metcalf and McLaurin. So I don't know if he's going to take the right guy.

I'm not sure if Andre Dillard is the left tackle playover now that Jason Peters is gone. I love the defensive line. But it's also, what are we going to get out of Carson Wentz? So I look at them anywhere between and 9 and 7, 11 and 5, like fighting for a wild card or maybe winning the NFC East. I see them around there. You don't see any path barring some huge move towards getting in the upper echelon with the Saints. I can because of what I said earlier. about coaching because the Giants, Washington, and Dallas all have new coaches. You know, that's six

of your 16 games. If they, you know, usually they split with the Cowboys. If they can do a clean sweep, now they're talking about possibly moving into that top tier record wise. Right. I think I, I can't tell. I did mean a Kimesis podcast yesterday. I couldn't, I can't get a read on Dallas because I think Dallas and Cleveland are in the same boat, which is I think that I think Dallas has a more talented roster than Cleveland, but I think Cleveland has a really, really talented roster. But I can't tell how many wins I should be adding to their roster because they just have a more competent coach. I can't tell whether or not the Cowboys, you know, I think there were probably 10 to 15 coaches last year looking back on it that could have won 12 games with that Cowboys

roster. So I look at the Cowboys, like if you look at the last six years, you know, if you look at the last six years. They win the division, they fall off. They win the division, they fall off. They're inconsistent. You know, teams are like their owners. Jerry Jones made his money and oil. Hey, we found it. Oh, we need to find another one. Hey, we got it. They were 0 and five in one score games last year. They were nine and two the year before. So that's going to come back. I worry about Travis Frederick being gone. Like, you lose your center. That's crazy. And they also swapped out their D-line for the Panthers D-line. They got Gerald McCory and Don Terry Poe. Poe's coming off a and quad.

So I look at it, Dallas was 10th against the run last year. The Panthers were 29th. So they're right there with the Eagles where I see a lot of talent, but I see a lot of holes in the new coach kind of scares me. Yes. But again, I feel that's why he's more consistent than Garrett. Yeah.

Right. And that's why, and I just think the philosophy is probably better. Having spent, I'm not saying this is going to change his philosophy, but the guy studied analytics all year last year. He probably has a little more open mind about certain things. I think Garrett just believed in execution over philosophy and quite frankly, even play calling

to the point that I just feel like everything in a run stale there. I think McCarthy might open it up a little bit more. Man, I'm just envisioning McCarthy studying analytics. And I'm like, he went to PFF. Does he think that means like memorizing numbers? Like they all do. McCarthy is studying analytics learning when to listen to analytics? I think it's more about, yeah, when to listen to it.

I think it's more than just going forward on fourth down. I think so much of it. I actually talked to an analytics guy this week, and we're also bored. We're all just talking to each other just to let, you know, whatever. But I think that a lot of it, and this is stuff they've been doing for 100 years in football, but just tendency stuff and saying,

hey, you know, when this team is in third and six, they always go over the middle of the field. And if they're third and four, they always go deep. And I think that that's, I think that that is just probably processed better now and it's more real time and you can get that kind of stuff in the booth. That's why people have analytics guys in the booth, not just to say when to call timeouts or go front and fourth down, but also give play calling suggestions. So I think it's more, I think the ability to listen to analytics is important. And I think that the coaches who have that information on the sideline are always going to be smarter than the ones who don't.

See, I hope it's true. I just hear Mike McCarthy studied analytics and I feel like it's somebody that, claims they went to anger management. Like, I, I, because it's, it, what happens is it comes down to game day situations. When it is fourth and four, is he going to go with his gutters are going to listen? And he's got, you know, 15 seconds to make that decision. But you mentioned the Browns and the thing I'm excited about is they, they loaded up on big people. They got a new tackle in Conklin.

Jack Conklin. They got a tight end and Hooper that can block. And they got Andy Janovich, the fullback. And I, bringing in Stafansky, I remember, look, I did a podcast. with Warren Sharp last year. And one of the things we talked about was they went into the year wanting to run a ton of double tight-end sets

to go heavy because that's how Baker was better is when you expected the run, he could do play action. And when they lost Injoku in that Jets game, when he flipped over and broke his wrist, it threw everything off. So now that you have Injoku and Hooper, you have Janovich,

you have a better tackle in Conklin. I'm hoping that they can use the play action for Baker because that's when he was so good. that first year. Yeah. I mean, I think that if he can split, I think he was really bad last year,

and I think that he inexplicably developed some very strange tendencies, and I think that they can be coached out of him. And I think that we just all overlooked how bad of a coach Freddy Kitchens was. And I just, and the fact that, by the way, both coaches who were fired

that we're talking about here on the same staff this year as with the New York Giants. I think there's probably some lesson in there about that team. We were making fun about Chase Daniel earlier, but it can mean so much to these quarterbacks to have a guy. For the Browns to sign Case Keenham excites me a little bit, not because, you know, hey, in a pinch, he can come in. But Keenham had his best year when Stafansky was in the building.

And I think cases at that time where he'll compete with Baker, but it's not going to be like Baker, Tyrod. And I think it'll be really Baker's first real mentor that he knows is there for him. And Baker's arm strength is so much better than cases. But having a guy in there that's that it's just a whole new respect system. My hopes are high for them. I agree. Speaking of the AFC North, Joe Burrow at the end of 2020, we think what about what will we what this time next year? What will we be saying about Joe Burrow?

I hope what we're saying is, man, it's like they got two first round picks because Jonah Williams is back after being out all year. Like I really hope that that dude from Alabama comes back and creates some time for Burrow, because Burrow has such good feet and such good timing. I think Mixing AJ Green and Ross can all be talented. But honestly, I don't know because I don't know about Zach Taylor. I think it's going to be a rough year for Joe Burrow. But I think that he's going to make some plays that gets a lot of hope. And then if the Bengals do what they did this offseason actually spend money,

Like when the Bengals signed DJ Reader, I was floored. I just didn't know the Bengals spent money in the offseason. If they can convince some people to come to Cincinnati, I think Joe Burrow could be great. But after this year, I do think it's going to be like a, you know, a five and 11, four and 12 type of slow start. All right. We'll get you out of this.

Get you out of here on this. Give us your early highlight. It's only been a little bit of hosting TNT on Tuesday's football. Excuse me. Basketball. not long after the show launched. And you guys were getting a lot of attention for being a very good pre and halftime and postgame show.

And we miss it. But what's been the highlight so far with Shaq and Dee Wade and Candice? I think for me it's, dude, there's something about being around people that are not just famous. They're famous, famous. And like when Shaq walks into a room, it's like everybody's heartbeat stops. That don't know him or have worked with him.

So for me, when we're shooting one of these things, he looks over and he goes, you ever see that video of that football player falling? And I was like, do you mean like that weird Bruce Smith interview? He's like, you know it. Lefco, we're doing a prank. And I was like, wow, he knew my name was Lefco. That's dope. And then he goes, all right, just start talking.

And I'm like, all right, Janice Ante Coupo. And then he just fell back. And to watch a room of like, I don't know, 60 people freaking out. Cameras are capturing it all. Everybody's going nuts. People are yelling. The producers are going, roll with it, roll with it, roll with it.

And then Shaq just kind of looks up at me and smiles. And you're like, what the hell just happened? Like, you begin to see that there are certain people, they take one step and they create an earthquake. And Shaq is one of those people. And to just kind of be in the back kicking it after that and like laughing about it, that's when you realize the power of some people. And it's been really, really cool to mess with that and have a good time with that. Let me ask you a question, because this is important.

I feel like Shaq is in the zone where there are no norms about leaving him alone because he's famous. Do people just come up to him if you guys go to get a cup of coffee or something? Oh, no. You think he's getting to get a cup of coffee? I asked him, I asked him one time, I said, man, what do you think about, like, go to a Kendrick concert? He's like, I don't go to concerts.

He's like, when I was, like, in Orlando. one time I tried to go to a public place and a shot went off and I'm never going out again. No, he wants to, he wants to DJ. If there's a meal and we're at work, someone's going to, like, someone's going to get it for him. Like, he can't go out. He hasn't been on a plane in forever. It's just in, you know, like the, the, Andre the Giant documentary. Yeah.

Where they talked about, oh, he couldn't sit on a plane. It wasn't comfortable or he could. I mean, that is Shaq. And one time I tried to say Rick Flair was the greatest wrestler of all. all the time. And it was the first time that he looked me dead in the eye and said, you're wrong. And I was like, what do you? It's Andre the Giant. And it made it just clicked for me. And it's, Shaq is larger than life. The cool thing, though, is every time we have a little kid come in, Shaq is the best with them. Like it's, and I judge people based on how they are with kids. And it's,

it's cool to watch. Awesome. Well, Adam Lefco. Thank you for coming. So just, just so everyone knows, Adam was unclear on whether or not this is on video or not. So he's wearing. a very nice jacket. Not only did I have a jacket, I made like an espresso and I cut a little piece of lemon peel and I was going to just casually right in the middle, go around the rim. But we'll make something happen. Just know that I can prepare. You will be on slow news day.

We're trying to do them weekly. This will happen. And we can't wait for it. Adam, thanks for coming by. Appreciate you guys. Thanks, man. Danny Kelly, draft guru, DK, the Dark Night. Danny, how you doing, buddy?

I'm doing excellent. How are you doing? I'm doing okay. You were just telling us you've discovered, you're the first parent to ever discovered that putting an infant to sleep is hard. Yeah, I mean, I think there's multiple challenges that come with being a parent, but getting your child to go to sleep is got to be the most frustrating and challenging one of them all. And I learned that this morning when my son would not go to sleep. So I had to take him on about a two-hour walk and he just stayed up the entire time. So it is what it is.

It was actually kind of a nice, nice little walk, so made the most of it. Really early on in my career when I was in college, I had to cover a Marlins game, and they were playing the Giants. And Barry Bond's obviously famously hated the media. And there was a crowd around him, and he didn't want to speak to the media. And so me and this other reporter who were camped out there was like our job to get a quote from Barry. He just filibustered by talking about how to tire out your children so he would go to sleep.

He was like, just put him in the front yard and give him a football. and let him rip. It's actually, yeah, that's smart. And that's that. Okay, we're going to do the prospects

we're not talking about enough in this episode. And hopefully we talk about them so well that people start talking about them. I want to start with, we've done the quarterback thing so much. And I think that there's the Tua narrative, the Joe Burrow narrative,

even the Jordan Love narrative, the bunch of teams are doing virtual meetings with Jordan Love, I feel like Jordan Love is probably going to get overdrafted. Yeah. Okay. give me a quarterback. We're not talking enough about Danny Kelly. So I still feel like Jalen Hertz is flying under their radar a little bit now.

Okay. Tell us why. He's obviously a big name in terms of he played for Alabama. He led them to a couple of championship games in his freshman and sophomore seasons. You know, the story is he was replaced by Tua in the title game, ended up being the backup in 2018 and kind of had to transfer from there to Oklahoma. But I think what he did at Oklahoma, in addition to what he did at Alabama, obviously his leadership skills, his mobility,

all that is going to be a part of the evaluation. But I think the improvement that he showed at Oklahoma this year as a thrower, I think is really, really important. And I think it still feels like we're overlooking him a little bit and maybe not talking about him enough as a day one slash day two guy. Like there's actually now sort of these rumors and whispers that he's going to be one of those quarterbacks that teams trade back up to like the 30, 31st, their second spot in the first round and grab.

So I think, I think, you know, Hertz is going to be a... You made a Paxton Lynch type? Well, hopefully not, hopefully not a Paxton Lynch in terms of his career. No, I know. I'm just saying kind of the late, late first round guy that everybody starts talking about. And all of a sudden someone trades late first round and picks him maybe a little higher than he was supposed to go. I could definitely see that happening.

I'm not comparing the players. Well, you could compare him to maybe like Lamar Jackson too. And the Ravens came back up into the first round, grabbed him. That turned out to be a good pick. They do not regret that. They maybe regret taking Hayden Hurst first because they just traded him. But, you know, that, whatever, it's water under the bridge. So, you know, just to kind of run through some of the accolades, I think, about Hurst.

He's going to be a little bit of a controversial or, you know, not everyone's going to love him as a pro passer. He's not necessarily like a prototypical pocket passer. But as we've seen over the last few years, you know, the NFL is more and more willing to work around guys and build offenses that fit their skill set. And Hertz, you know, he showed a lot of improvement in accuracy this last season.

He actually threw for 3,800 plus yards, 32 touchdowns, in addition to his dynamic ability on the ground. He's not a Lamar Jackson type runner. He's more like I would say Russell Wilson-esque in his ability to run. He's kind of, you know, a compact build. He's a tough, rugged runner. He scored 20 touchdowns on the ground last season.

So he's clearly dangerous in the red zone. Ultimately, like, he's not a perfect prospect. None of these guys are. He struggles dealing with pressure at times. He bails from the pocket a little too early sometimes. All those things are a concern going forward. But if you look, I was actually, I like to do this with draft prospects, is look back at scouting reports of players coming into the league

and kind of just see how those scouting reports captured a certain player as they were thought of as a prospect. I was reading Lance Zerlain's report on Dak Prescott, and there's some actually pretty interesting similarities between Dax. His scouting report and the scouting report for Jalen Hertz, like the consensus scouting reports of Hertz. And a lot of the things that are similar,

his accuracy is a little bit of an issue. People worried about his pocket poise. They were worried he was a little bit too willing to go run. And this is all talking about Dak Prescott. So this is like some very similar things to what people are saying about Jalen Hertz. And then also similarly, Prescott's accuracy has, I think, gotten better based on where people saw him, you know, in college. People were worried about that coming into league. and he's become a very, very good, accurate passer.

And I think looking at what Hertz has done, you know, in the last couple of seasons, I think there's enough improvement there to think that teams can see that he has that skill set and they could improve his accuracy. They can sort of massage that part of the game in for him. And so I think, I don't know, I'm just very, very intrigued with Jalen Hertz, where he's going to land, what team he's going to get with and kind of see if they can build an offense around him. Because I think he's got a really dynamic.

skill set. He's not, like I said, he's not a prototypical pocket passer, but I do think he has the type of skill set that can succeed in the NFL. So I'm with you. I think that a quarterback like Jalen Hertz who has shown a lot of ability and may not be and has flaws, like you said, and he's not going to be a top 20 pick. I think that's the type of guy you take a flyer on because, you know, getting, taking your scheme and using it to match a skill set of a player who has a lot of skills, I think it's easier than ever. And we've talked a million different ways that that's true as far as the rules have changed. Offenses have changed.

Receivers, you know, it is easier than ever to put a square peg in a round hole, so to speak, if you're not taking a quarterback who's ready. Remember, Dak Prescott came in for an injured Tony Romo and looked great immediately. You can do things you weren't able to do 10 years ago at the quarterback position because it's easier because coaches are better. So the number one thing for Jalen Hertz is to get in a good coaching staff and get in a good offense and have success right away. If he doesn't do that, it might take a couple of years for him to develop.

But I agree with you that I do like Jalen Hertz. All right, next one. So wanted to move to receiver real quick. Brandon I.Uke from Arizona State is one of these guys that I'm sort of just, he's one of my guys, I'd say. Like, I really think he's an interesting player. he's flown under the radar a little. I mean, people definitely know about him,

but he's flying under the top, like, three or four receiver group of Judy, C.D. Lamb, Henry Ruggs, even like a Denzel Mimps, these guys. I think Ayuk is really dynamic. He reminds me a little bit of DJ Moore in the sense that he's very, very good after the catch, very big physical guy who has explosiveness in his short area. You know, he can hit the home run. You can take a slant and take it all the way. to the house. He's a very good

returner. So I think he's one of these guys that he might fall into the late second, into the early third, but he's got a really interesting skill set, a lot of explosiveness. He's a former juco transfer. So he took a kind of circuitous route

to the draft. But I remember Jim Nagy from the senior bowl was saying that he's spoken to a few teams that have this guy graded higher than they had Nikiel Harry coming in last year. And so, and Harry was obviously a first round pick. Now, every team grades a little differently. Some teams might have had

hairy lower, so there's obvious caveats there. But I think Ayuk is a very interesting player. He's very uniquely built. He has like really, really long arms. Kind of a shorter guy. He's like six foot, six one. But he's very, very explosive. So I think he's going to be

a fun player to watch. I can't wait to see where he lands as well. Give us one more receiver. Brian Edwards, South Carolina. Another one of my favorites. He's just kind of, and a lot of the guys that I've got on my list today kind of are maybe not getting talked about enough because they went through injuries in this last season or they had to skip some of the Combine, Senior Bowl, things like that. Brian Edwards is that guy. He broke his foot, I believe, and so he had

to miss the Senior Bowl and the Combine. Otherwise, he probably would have ended up being, you know, talked about as maybe like a second round pick. Now he might fall into the third or fourth, but I think he's a very good player. He was a four-year contributor for South Carolina. I mean, he put up pretty impressive numbers. He had 44 catches for 590 yards and four touchdowns as a 17-year-old playing in the SEC. So I think he's got a lot of potential. He reminds me of James Jones a little bit in just a sense that he's, you know, thickly built, very physical, like strong hand, strong route runner, can run after the catch. He just kind of has a complete skill set.

He never posted eye-popping numbers at South Carolina because, you know, just, their offense just wasn't that high, high octane type offense, but he's always had a good share of their production, and he's just a good player, I think. And so he's another guy, I think that people aren't really talking about a ton because he missed the combine,

I miss the senior bowl, but he has a chance to be really good in the NFL. I like this rubric of us just building out of a team. So give us two corners. Yeah, so let's see here. Going down to the corner group, Jeff Gladney from TCU, one of my favorites.

He's the kind of guy. So I remember very vividly popping on the tape and I was like, okay, I love this guy. He's just really fun to watch. He's really, really physical, really, really aggressive. He's only 5'10, 199. He's really kind of a skinny guy, like rail thin, but he's very, very athletic and very, very strong. I saw on Bruce Feldman's Freaks List from the Athletic, which is a must read every year. He apparently squats 620 pounds, which is, again, is Sequin,

Barkley range. And this guy's 191 pounds. Benches 400. Power Cleans 400. So he's like country strong. He's very, I just like watching him play like really lightning quick feet. Good ball skills. He has three interceptions, 26 past breakups in the past two seasons. He can kind of play outside, inside. He got some reps over the slot. He is sort of the definition of a scrappy corner. So I like him a lot. Yeah, I would say that you mentioned the freaks list. I was actually thinking about the freaks list earlier today because obviously one of the things that I value is athleticism. I think that a lot of times you can just draft the athlete and if you're good enough coaching staff, you can kind of figure out, figure out the nuances of it all and make it fit. And I think that

the freaks list is usually kind of a prequel to my draft crush list. Like two years after they appear on the freaks list, they appear on the April 10th podcast I do. And I'm like, man, I love this guy. Pick him in the third round. All right. Who's the other corner? The other corner that I like, again, he was injured last season, so he kind of fell to the wayside in terms of the hype. But Bryce Hall from Virginia, I remember last season, towards the end of last season, people were talking about him as a potential future first rounder. He led college football with 21 pass breakups in 2018. And Bryce Hall, Virginia, good size. He's a tall guy.

I think he's like 6'1. He's a former receiver who switched to defense, so he's got those receivers. type ball skills, his ability to turn. I love those guys. You're Richard Sherman's. Exactly, exactly. He actually reminds me a lot of... You know, Sam Shields was like that, too. Oh, really? Interesting. Yeah.

I think it helps too just because, you know, you're coming... You're playing defense with a mindset of you know what receivers want to do, the things that they're trying to do to set up cornerbacks. And so having that experience, I think, can certainly help you. You're able to kind of understand what the offense wants to do better, too. And so I always kind of like, I like that bit. I mean, a lot of guys play both sides of the ball in high school, but he was a really good receiver.

So I think he's very interesting. He reminds me a little bit of Marcus Peters in the way that he, I think, you know, he can play press. He's got the size and length to do that, but he likes to play off where he's sort of reading in the backfield, watching routes develop and jumping into passing lanes. And so he's got that sort of Marcus Peters mentality where he wants to sort of bait quarterbacks

into throwing the ball and then jump in into the past and thing. So he's one of my, I think he's probably going to be like a third or fourth rounder with a chance to raise up a little bit higher than that. But I think whoever picks him is going to get a good player. What switch sides of the ball? Let's book on the tackles here. A couple guys I really like. Another TCU player, Mark, sorry, Lucas Nyang, who, again, injured last year.

He had a hip injury that kept him out the last part of the season. And even when he played early on the season, he kind of had to play. around the injury. His pass set is really funky looking. If you watch the tape, he just kind of, he backs up almost like straight backwards instead of getting into sort of like the kickstep or whatever. And so his techniques were a little bit weird. And apparently that was related to his hip injury. He just kind of had to like mitigate that injury and it just didn't feel right to him. So he quit or he didn't quit. He had, he elected to do surgery halfway through the season, missed kind of all the postseason pre-draft stuff.

But when you look at him, he's a very athletic, big guy, really long, you know, easy mover. I think he's a perfect fit for a zone blocking scheme. He's a right tackle only, so I think that could limit his value a little bit, or at least it seems that he probably hasn't. No one's going to project him as a left tackle, I don't think. But I think you could plug and play him at right tackle. And so he's an interesting guy to me. The other guy that, you know, everybody's talking about Mackay Beckton from Louisville and with Good Right.

I mean, he's a huge, huge do with amazing athleticism. But Isaiah Wilson from Georgia, another guy with just prodigious size, absolute unit size. And so he's six foot six, three, three, 50. Absolute unit is what I want to hear. You also called, you also said this guy is, quote, just a badass. He is, man. He's just one of those guys that's fun to watch play. He likes to, you know, reach out and touch someone if that, you know what I mean?

And like, he has heavy hands. He's a former five-star recruit. He was a three-sport athlete in high school. He also did lacrosse and wrestling. There's a hilarious and awesome video of him being like a situational wildcat running back slash quarterback in high school. He's just like, just running down like these 160-pound, like, high school kids. And so definitely look for that on, on YouTube.

because it's hilarious. But, you know, he's got, he's just got really good power. Like I said, really strong hands. He's probably a right tackle only. But I think he's the kind of guy who in like a power scheme or just like a straight downhill blocking type scheme. He could do really well. He's not super fleet of foot, but he's just really powerful.

So he's another guy to keep in mind. All right. Lightning round, one line on each. Safety. I love Ashton Davis from Cal. And I'm definitely, I just want. want to say I'm not comparing him to Earl Thomas, but he does have like that's on field speed. Danny, Danny, I said one line, which means you are comparing him to Earl Thomas. We had to stop the sentence

in the middle and compare him to Earl Thomas. No, no, no, no, no. I'm not going to, you're not catch me in that. I will say he, his on field. His on field speed, his on field speed is ridiculous. And that is the thing that's kind of reminiscent of Earl Thomas. He's got to, he's got to figure out his instincts and develop as a as a safety but really really exciting speed on the field so i love him um going to the edge position two guys that are kind of like third probably third rounders maybe you know they might sneak into the second round but two guys are really really like darrell taylor from tennessee jabari zuniga from florida both of those guys are as explosive as you can imagine zaniga actually blew up the combine he's one of the most explosive guys at the combine uh 4-6-440 33

inch fur, 10 foot 7 inch broad. He, again, was injured this last season, so that kind of like made him fall to the wayside. And then Taylor's just a big, strong, explosive guy, so I really, really like him. And then finally, moving to defensive tackle,

Rayquan Davis from Alabama, 6'6, 311 pounds. He's about the beefiest dude that you could imagine. He's just, he's got like tree trunk legs, like massive, massive arms. You can't move them on the field. He's just the type of guy that you plug in. I bet you the Steelers will like this guy.

Just plug him into the defensive line. He just kind of dominates in his spot. If he could unlock his pass rush, I think he has all pro potential. But that's a big if. And so I think, you know, if he's not in the second round, he might fall a little bit, but it's just because he needs to still unlock his pass rush potential. Danny Kelly, I feel smarter. I feel smarter after that 20 minutes.

Thank you so much. enjoy your son's nap and we'll talk to you next week. Sounds good, man. Thank you.