The Ringer NFL Show - Malik Willis's Future, John Harbaugh's Workouts, and Stories That Have Our Attention!

Episode Date: February 20, 2026

Sheil is joined by The Ringer’s own Billy Gil to take a hard look at some of the week’s biggest NFL headlines and talk about how they're shaping the league’s offseason.(00:00) Offseason NFL stories that have our attention(3:16) Would signing Malik Willis be a good idea?(13:58) Anthony Richardson’s complicated future with the Colts(26:05) John Harbaugh’s frantic first 30 days as Giants HC(43:56) 49ers are playing in Mexico and Australia next season(47:42) Could the 49ers trade Mac Jones to the Vikings?Quit overspending on wireless with 50% off Unlimited premium wireless. Plans start at $15/month at mintmobile.com/RINGERNFL.The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.Host: Sheil KapadiaGuest: Billy GilProducer: Chris SuttonVideo Editor: Stefano SanchezProduction Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm your host, Shield Capadia. Today we're going over stories that caught our attention this week. We got Malik Willis. We got Anthony Richardson. We got some very interesting things going on

with John Harbaugh and the New York Giants as well. And then Matt Jones is another one. A lot of quarterback movement this offseason. What's going to happen with a bunch of these guys? That's what we're going to talk about. My guest today is our friend, the ringers, Billy Gill. Let's take a break. come back with Billy and talk about stories that have our attention.

Right, we are back here on the Ringer NFL show with Billy Gill. We have identified some stories and some headlines, Billy, that have our attention because we're not quite at the combine. We're not yet at the start of free agency, but things are going to be happening pretty soon here. So hopefully you enjoyed like your three-day break from football or whatever it is. And now you're just ready to talk about the offseason. I was going to ask you, by the way, I miss you.

And it's only been a week since we've done this show together. Maybe a little bit more than a week. But it hasn't been very long, but it feels like the Super Bowl was a month ago already, right? Or do you not feel that way? No, I feel that way for sure. And it's just like, you know, you're seeing this stuff come across the timeline

with people tweeting out clips of like this Cincinnati wide receiver, really like him in the fourth round. And I'm just like, I'm not ready for that. Like, I'm ready to talk Malik Willis. I'm ready to talk about some of these other things. I'm not ready to hear about your, day three sleeper. Really?

Are you a combine guy? You're not like knee deep in the combine situation? Not knee deep in the combine. Free agency. Free agency always gets the, what's it called? The short stick. Is that what people say? Sure.

Whatever it is. Yeah. You know, it's like these are, these are going to be big moves, trades, free agent signings. These are important. We got to focus on that for the next month or so. And then I'll have time for your draft needs. Can I ask, why is there like a league approved, like period where,

it's okay to like, hey, we're having these conversations. But it's not like, unofficially, like, it's, what's the word I'm looking for? It's league approved. Not tampering. They don't like, it's probably the word you're looking for. Yeah, it's league approved tampering period. It starts like March 9th or something like that. It's like, why even call it league approved tampering?

Like that is such a weird way of putting it. Just say like, there's an open window now. You can talk to people. Well, the way it works is that next week at the Combine, basically there will be agents and GMs and they'll have dinners and they'll have drinks and they'll have off the record conversations where you really know where you stand with each other after next week. But that's all off the record, see nothing, say nothing. And then after that, you're right. They have that two-day window, which is now just the start of free agency because all the deals start to get reported. So that's

what we're looking at next month with the start of free agency here, Billy. And it's a great segue to the first story that has my attention here. Because, you know, I'm looking around. I like to read the local beat coverage. And then I check the national sites. They are, what are they talking about? And you know the name that comes up all over the place is Malik Willis. Malik Willis could cash in.

That's from pro football talk. And then you go to any of these other sites with the local coverage. They need a quarterback. They're saying, should we sign Malik Willis? Is this a good? Basically, the whole conversation about Malik Willis is, is this a good idea? You know, because this is one of the most intriguing free agents we've had in recent memory, where he's only started six games in his career, but he's also only 27 years old.

And when he did play for the Green Bay Packers, it was like, huh, it kind of looks pretty good here. Should this be someone we pay a lot of money to? And the other thing, Billy, that I think has my attention is let's call it the Sam Darnold Daniel Jones effect. You know, these NFL teams, they have a recency bias where they're going to look around, And they're going to say, hey, you know, anyone could have signed Sam Darnold last offseason. And they won the Super Bowl. Anyone could have signed Daniel Jones last offseason. And they had a great offense until he got injured.

Hey, our team, we have a good roster. We've got good offensive coaches. Let's go find a talented quarterback who maybe hasn't succeeded elsewhere. And maybe that guy is Malik Willis. So where are you with this? You have a team in the Miami Dolphids that might need a quarterback. I do have a team in the Miami Dolphins who seem like they might. might need a quarterback, but their front office is doing everything they can to not officially

comment on the situation officially. And it's like the combine, like you said. It's like, all these unofficial comments are going out there. They had like a fan, I guess like a season ticket holder gathering with the new general manager and the new coach. And they asked about the quarterback situation last week, I think it was. And they did everything to like kind of make it seem like they're moving on from Tua, but said like Tua will also be the first person to know when we do. So it would be inappropriate for us to comment here. But after we let him know, we'll let you guys know. It's kind of like, it sounds like you're telling us that you're moving on from him.

But also with two, I think you need to wait until after June 1st to let him go because of salary cap constraints and all of that, which puts the dolphins at a disadvantage because there's other teams. They're going to be looking to scoop up a quarterback. And if they wait until June, someone like a Malik Willis might not be available to them unless you have your unofficial conversations going on there because they have that Packers connection where they say, hey, Malik, guess what?

Like, we have this sweet job lined up for you. Just wait around a little bit. But the longer teams wait around on Malik Willis and the longer Malik Willis stays out there, it seems like the more money he may get from what you're saying, six games, which is kind of crazy. You've seen him do it in the spots that he's had.

He's had good games, then he's had games that he's coming, he's taken over. He hasn't really had a terrible, performance, right? I mean, he was in Tennessee and that didn't work out. And then in Green Bay, he's just kind of been around in case Jordan Love gets hurt. And when they plug him in, he

does a good enough job. But when you look at who's out there, he's not the most proven, but he's also not someone who's proven that he absolutely can't do it, which is what a lot of the other names out there are if you're looking

for a quarterback. So you have Russell Wilson. I mean, you kind of know the situation with Russell Wilson. He's at the end of his career. You know that Russell Wilson's not going to be your guy. The Giants kind of gambled on that situation to see if that worked out. That didn't work out. You have Marcus Marriota, who seems like a lovely guy. But we also have, what, a decade and a half of what Marcus Marriota could be. And he's, again, at the end of his career. You have Joe Flacco who will come in and he'll give you a game or two and it'll be like a jolt of electricity. You're like, oh, wow, Joe Flacco might still have it. And then you realize like, no, Joe Flacco's

like 47 years old. He doesn't still have it. Tyrod Taylor, you know what he is. Kenny Pickett, you know what he is. Zach Wilson, Jimmy Garoppolo. Are you just going through every quarterback in the NFL? I've been looking at who's out there. Oh, that's who's out there. Okay, I wasn't sure if you're just reading the lens.

I'm trying to see who's out there, Sheel. And this is why he's interesting. Because who else could be available? Kirk Cousins could be available. Yes. But Kirk Cousins, we might get to later, maybe a little reunion in Minnesota. Like, who knows what goes on there?

Aaron Rogers is technically available. But if he's going to go anywhere, he's probably going to go back to the Steelers. Daniel Jones is going to go back to the Colts. Kyler might be traded or released. Who knows what's going on there? Tua might be traded or released. There's just guys out there that are just guys.

So if you can roll the dice on someone like Malik Willis, who's pretty much unknown at this moment, but what you have seen has been good in spurts, that's why he might get $20 million plus this offseason from a team while not really having proven anything other than he's not going to poop the best. Yeah, the contract is very interesting because you mentioned it. Justin Fields last off season got two years, $40 million with $30 million guaranteed.

And it's different than Malik Willis. Because to your point, Justin Fields kind of had a big body of work where there were some flashes. But statistically, he was like terrible. If you just kind of looked at it, like, no, this guy's not going to be able to turn his career around. And the Jets were like, that's okay. You know, we're going to him two years, $40 million with $30 million guaranteed because he ran around a little bit against an Aaron Glenn defense once or twice. So that's what he's going to do against every other team.

That didn't work out well. But I do think that's the neighborhood we're talking about with Malik Willis. It's kind of in the 20s. You know, it just kind of depends. Do you start a bidding more? I do think the dolphins are interesting because of their connections to Green Bay where they're like, hey, our GM, our coach now was their defensive coordinator. You know, you can hear them at the press conference.

We saw this guy work every day. Man, Jeff Hathley's up there going, man, Maloney. Alec Willis, when he was running the scout team at practice, he was carving us up. This guy has great armed talent in athleticism. So I could see the dolphins selling it. And then the other team that's on my radar, Billy, is a team that is just the most irrelevant team in the NFL right now. You know, if we did like relegation, I feel like they would have to play the top college team. And then if there was some way to make that work where we could just bump them down to college, that's the Arizona Cardinals.

Wow. Because their head coach is Mike LaFleur, who is the brother of Matt LaFleur. So is there a little sibling rivalry where he says, you know what? My brother's getting all the credit. And, you know, oh, he did such a great job with Malik Willis. Well, guess what? I'm going to go get that guy. And I'm going to bring him into my building.

And he's going to be even better. And we're going to settle this once and for all that I'm the better LaFloor brother coach. So that's the other team that's on my radar because he does have that LaFloor connection there. in Arizona. So I was thinking that you were suggesting maybe some LaFleur insider trading there where older brother helps out Younger versus. I didn't know what direction to take it. Oh, you know what? I don't want, I don't want Mike to look bad his first gig. Ogy, we have this extra quarterback. We don't really need him. Jordan loves is enough for us. Like, let's toss them your way. But you're saying that Thanksgiving at the Lefleur household might be more tense where there's a sibling rivalry

going on and they're not helping each other out. Matt is hoping for Mike's down. So he might send him something, you know what? Maybe. I know where you're going with this. Where Matt knows where all the shortcomings are with Malik. And he sends him over to Mike. He's like, this is your guy. But it's really just a situation where he knows,

this guy only works six passing attempts a game. He only works in the short purse. There's a reason he ended up here. Let me send him my brother's way. So I will forever be the more successful LaFleur. Interesting. Sabotage, you're saying. It could be.

It could be. We don't know the whole background, the family situation, the dynamics of them growing up, was there a rivalry, is there resentment from one to the other? I think, you know, Matt LaFlor could very much say, hey, we disappointed last year, but you know what? I'm going to make sure that when we go to Thanksgiving, there's one son getting made fun of more than me. And that's going to be brother Mike.

So I think you're on to something. Maybe he calls him and says, hey, run this system. You know, this system's really, and it's a system that Malik Willis cannot operate. It's actually one that he struggles in. And now all of a sudden the Cardinals pay him two years, 40 million, 50 million, whatever it is. And he stinks with the Arizona Cardinals. I was going to ask you, what do you do if you're Malik? Do you say, you know what?

If someone offers me multi-years, I'm here and I'm going to cash out and I'm going to get as much as I can. Or do you do what some are suggesting that maybe he does is you take a one-year deal, you prove yourself, and then you get a monster deal. because if I'm a league and someone's offering me $25, $30 million for like $2, $3 years, so like $60 million, it's hard to say no to like $60 million if you're in his position, right? Especially like a third team.

Because you would think, Sam Darno got $33 million a year. He's not going to get $33 million a year on what he's shown so far. So it's going to be in the 20s, you would think. Even if there's a bidding war, they can't go that high with him. I agree with you, and it's the ultimate, you know, bet on, do you bet on yourself?

I'm usually a bet on yourself type guy. I like betting on yourself, but you also have to have self-awareness, Billy. And if I'm Malik Willis, I'm looking at it going, all right, that was a pretty good situation in Green Bay. And I only had to play in six games. I'm not going to overthink this and be like, I'm going to sign a one-year deal and the next off-season. No, I'm saying, give me the money now. Give me the guarantees now. You know what?

If it's a two-year deal, like the Justin Fields one, I'll take the guaranteed money. And then two years from now, if I'm playing well, I can go and I can make more money. But I'm not doing, this isn't a bet on myself situation for me if I'm Malik Willis. I'm saying, give me the money now. Let me maximize my opportunity now. Because remember, a team could use the franchise tag on him or something down the road. So this is the only situation where you like can go out there and start a bidding war and see what your actual worth is. I'm going to call my shot and say Arizona Cardinals, two years, $50 million for Malik Willis.

Because let's be honest, the Cardinals have nothing to lose. Like if he stinks, it actually doesn't matter because they already stink right now. And they don't have, what are they going to play Jacoby Brissette? Like, why not at least take the flyer? So that's what I'm saying. Malik Willis ends up in Arizona. There you go. I like it.

You like it? Sure. You're on board. All right. Yeah, you were going through a bunch of quarterbacks. I did notice there was one name you didn't mention, Billy. And this is the next story that has my attention. Why Anthony Richardson's future with the Colts has become complicated.

This is from ESPN's Stephen Holder. So the Colts are an interesting team. We don't know exactly what they're going to do at quarterback. We think they're going to bring back Daniel Jones, even though he's coming off the Achilles injury. They've got Riley Leonard in there. If they need someone to start a couple of games in the beginning of the season, But what do they do with Anthony Richardson

and is there a team that would actually still trade him? What do you think? Is this just irrelevant? Are you saying, why are we even talking about Anthony Richardson right now? Or is there any interest to you in this situation? I am interested in this situation. But I don't know why I'm interested in this situation.

I think I'm interested in this situation because the Colts are very much saying nothing. about him. They've come out and they've made it clear that Daniel Jones is going to be their guy, so they want to kind of work out something with Daniel Jones. They have gone out and they have endorsed Riley Leonard and said that he did a good job for them last season. But when the topic of Anthony Richardson comes up, their owner, Carly Ursa Gordon, said, I don't know that it's appropriate to discuss this situation like from my position. It's kind of like, hmm. So we're going endorse everyone but Anthony Richardson, who also, as of now, still has not officially

requested a trade, even though it seems like his time in Indy is over or will be over soon enough, but he's not letting go of that situation. They have a decision to make with him. May 1st, I believe is the deadline for the fifth year option on him. Are they going to pick up his fifth year? It seems like, why would they do that? Right. So he will be going elsewhere. He will be going elsewhere. He's had an up and down career. He's battled the injuries. He had the weird eye socket orbital bone situation last season.

Is that the biggest unsolved mystery in the NFL, Philly? That this guy was, he was getting ready for a game stretching and something happened with an elastic band. You know, I think about this when I'm doing my, you know, physical therapy, uh, rotator cuff exercises they have me doing at home. I have the elastic band. And I'm looking at him going, should I be wearing goggles? because Anthony Richardson did something with an elastic band

that affected his eyesight and a fractured orbital bone, Billy. We don't know any of the details about this. I got to be honestly, now I'm more intrigued about your physical therapy and what's going on with your rotator cuff. Like, were you throwing too many footballs? Like, is this a sports injury?

Nobody knows, Billy. Nobody knows how it happened. This is what happens. When you get older, you wake up and you can't do certain things with your shoulder and you think it's going to go away in two weeks and it doesn't go away. and then you're like, fine, I'll go to a doctor.

And the doctor's like, all right, go to physical therapy. And then they give you some elastic bands. And here we are talking about Anthony Richardson. Yeah. I mean, so here's the question with him. Because you said this during the season where you were trying to figure out, where do the dolphins move to a how do they get out from all the two of money? And you threw out there the idea of maybe he ends up with the Colts and they eat some of that money. And along with him, you send along like a first or second round pick.

and in exchange you get Anthony Richardson. I would think that's not going to happen because they have come out and they said they're happy with Daniel Jones and Riley Leonard for whatever reason. They're happy with Riley Leonard. So it doesn't seem like that's a destination for TWA, but are the dolphins then a destination for Anthony Richardson? I don't know because they have to clear out a lot of money

the dolphins do with the Tua thing. So do you take on Anthony Richardson? He doesn't have that same relationship with the Packers Brass that now runs the dolphins that Malik Willis has. So Anthony Richardson, you would think, ends up somewhere, right? It's not like this is the end of the road for him. You have teams that could benefit from having him.

I mean, what happens, you know, if Malik goes to the dolphins, then to the Cardinals say, hey, let's take a look at Anthony Richardson. The Jets have any interest in Anthony Richardson. There's teams out there that might like him because he's also somewhat of an unknown. I mean, he's been bad at times, but he's also led game-winning drives against the jet. against the Patriots. He's shown that he can do it if he can stay healthy. He just can't stay healthy.

So do you roll the dice on him? There's not great options out there at QB right now. And in the draft, you basically just have Fernando Mendoza and then you have to wait until, you know, borderline end of, you know, Ty Simpson at the end of the first round, maybe a second rounder. So it's not like the solve for a lot of these teams is going to be in the draft. So I don't know what you do with him. What do you do with him?

So I think that the Colts are going to trade him because he would, he would otherwise be their third string quarterback. I think they're going to have to work something out with Daniel Jones, which I don't know if that's going to be a great situation, paying Daniel Jones a lot of money coming off in Achilles, but it sounds like that's what they're going to do. You mentioned their owner. Why are they so public about that, by the way?

I don't know. They love Daniel Jones with Daniel Jones. Daniel Jones is coming back. It's like, he's a free agent. If you tag him, you're paying him one year $47 million. That to me does not sound like a good idea for Daniel Jones coming off in Achilles. And then if it's a long term, deal. You mentioned the Darnold contract. I don't know that I would love to pay. You know, Daniel Jones,

$34 million per year going off of a 10 game sample. But I said that last year. They loved it. They seem to love Daniel Jones and they're like he's going to be our long term quarterback. Don't say that though. Just don't say that out loud. Why are they saying that out loud? Right. They could be like, we don't know. And then you're wondering, wait, would they make a play from Malik Willis? You're right. Because they could be a mystery team for some of these quarterbacks for a Kyler Murray. But it doesn't, you know, they seem to have no interest in playing that game publicly. So Anthony Richardson, I think is interesting because, not because I think he's going to be

great or even good or even competent. But you know what he is, Billy? He is cheap. And I don't think it's going to take more than a day three pick maybe to get Anthony Richardson. So low risk. I like that. Always stockpile quarterbacks, you know, some of these franchises. The Eagles like to do that.

hey, if there's a quarterback, let's just go out and get them. It's low risk. We're not giving much up. But here's the other thing I was thinking. I want to run this by you. How often are we watching these high leverage games, these playoff games or even maybe regular season? And it comes down to, hey, it's third and one, fourth and one. And a team has some weird play.

You know, we saw, remember that Broncos game against the Patriots? We saw that, right? They went forward on fourth and one. They run some play action with Jared Stidham. it's a disaster, and all of a sudden, everyone's going, that swung the game. Why would it be worth it for me if I'm a team? To give up a day three pick and say,

hello Anthony, nice to see you. We are going to work on quarterback sneaks with you before you even attempt one pass. We are going to make this, you're a monster. You're one of the strongest guys in the NFL at quarterback, and we're going to come up with just, here's how we're going to run the quarterback sneak. We're going to watch that Tom Brady,

film from back in the day. Maybe we watched a little tush push film. And this is going to be unstoppable. And we're not paying you a lot of money. But guess what? Every time it's third and one and fourth and one this season, you are going to come into the football game. Everyone in the stadium's going to know we're running a quarterback sneak.

But it's going to be worth it for us to give up a day three pick just to do that. I think that would make a lot of sense. I would do that, Billy. What do you think? I guess why wouldn't the Colts just keep them for that purpose then, right? Like, the problem with giving up a day three pick is you know how this ends, is he's going to get injured on that play at one point in time in the season. Like, that's exactly how he was getting concussed and injured the first season.

He was just always running. Wasn't it Trevor Lawrence that went up to him and told him like, hey, maybe stop like running like that. You're going to get yourself. It was another quarter about, was it C.J. Stroud? I can't remember. Yeah, somebody, was it? People kept whispering to Anthony Richardson.

Do you remember that? Kevin O'Connell whispered him, whispered to him. at the end of the game, you're going to be a great quarterback in this league. Like, what makes a quarterback worthy of so many postgame whispers, I don't know. Yeah, just a nice guy, maybe. Approachable guy. Especially someone who like, we didn't see a ton in college. We kind of were gambling that this would work out in the NFL.

Haven't seen a ton of the NFL, but everyone on the limited stuff that they've seen with Anthony, like, this guy's going to be great one day when he finds a right opportunity. It's kind of like, what are we going to get there? Maybe this is it. Maybe this is the right opportunity. Who knows? Yeah. So I'm looking at the teams.

You mentioned a bunch of teams that need quarterbacks. So dolphins, jets, Steelers, Browns, Vikings, I just said, KOC whispered to him, Cardinals, Falcons. But I almost think that maybe one of these teams that already has a quarterback is like, they're like, this is the right guy to take a flyer on. It does, again, it doesn't cost much. If you're the Ravens, for example, would you want him as a backup to Lamar Jackson? That could be interesting. If you're the chiefs and you're not sure about Patrick Mahomes to start the season or you just need a backup, you know, you know, Andy Reid loves, you know what Andy Reid loves.

I'm going to take that quarterback who no one believes in. I'm going to develop them because I am the greatest quarterback developer in NFL history. You know, the Eagles would love to do it. Howie Roseman would just do it and then he would go on social media. And then he would just, oh my God, send me all the tweets about how smart I am. We're such a smart organization. I have a sleeper for you. Okay.

I don't know if you remember this. When Anthony Richardson was coming out, there was a lot of buzz that the Seattle Seahawks were interested. and Anthony Richardson. That one came to mind. The Rams, your quarterback's, what, 38 years old? You just say, hey, bring Anthony Richardson in for a year. So I think there's actually a lot of teams where it's part quarterback sneak guy, it's part developmental, number two or number three quarterback.

We're giving you a day three pick. I think Anthony Richardson gets moved in one of those situations. What do you think? Now, I have a question for you. Let's say the Eagles do say, you know, what, we're going to bring them in, and we're going to have him be like our backup for like, you know, the tush push or whatever. We're going to have them come in for like the short place. Do we then have a controversy in Philadelphia where Jalen Hertz, one of his values is the tush push?

And this is so unstoppable with him. And now they bring in Anthony Richardson. And now it's like, whoa, hold on. Like this is my turf, the short distance gain here. I think Jalen Hertz will be so happy to never have to run the tush push again. I think everybody involved in it finds it a little painful. and uncomfortable. And so I think Jalen Hertz would be fine. Go ahead. You take the tush push. I'll come back in for the next down. So we'll see. But I'm wondering, how is this going to impact

his stats? You know what I mean? Because how many touchdowns do we have on those plays? I could see that. Maybe Hertz is like if we're at the goal line, I'm doing it. If we're anywhere else on the field, you're doing it. Okay. Yeah, maybe something like that. You're the expert. Yeah, you can work it out. All right. Let's take a break. That's Anthony Richardson. I think he's going to get traded. We'll see if you end up getting traded. We're going to come back. And there's a story that I'll be honest, this is the one I've been waiting to get Billy's take on all day long. So let's take a break. We'll come back. We'll get to that. This episode is brought to you by Mint Mobile. Quit overspending on wireless with 50% off

unlimited premium wireless. Plans start at $15 a month at mintmobile.com slash ringer NFL. Limited time offer, upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for 12 months, plan required $15 per month equivalent, taxes and fees extra initial plan term only, over 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy, capable devices required, availability, speed, and coverage varies. Seamintmobile.com. All right, we are back here on the Ringer NFL show. and Billy, the John Harbaugh content has been just out of this world, in my opinion, so far. We did a whole segment on them taking him out to dinner, what he was ordering.

There's so many details because it seems like a longtime reporter Ian O'Connor of the Athletic. He obviously has some type of great relationship with John Harbaugh, where he can basically call him up at any time, ask him anything. And Harbaugh is like, I'm going to give you every single day. detail that you need. And so it's great for us in content because you don't get this kind of detail on other coaches. So there's the story in the athletic. Inside Giants coach, John Harbaugh's frantic first 30 days in office. And I'll be honest, of anything we're talking about today, I have more notes on this than anything else. But I want to see the floor to you. You did you, read this story, right? Did you do the homework? I did read it. I read the story. Honestly, I was hoping for

more crazy details than we got. Because we didn't get like, when I hear frantic and I saw that headline, I was like, wow, this team must be in disarray, things must be falling apart. And it was really more just highlighting how weird John Harbaugh is, right? Like, and to your point,

it seems like he's an open book if you want to kind of highlight how weird he is. Like I guess he just thinks like, this is very normal. And when we go and we put out all these details about John and Jim and all the Harbaugh, Their life is so normal to them that other people highlighting what they do.

They're like, yeah, this just looks great. And everyone reading it's like, what's wrong with them? Like, why are they the way that they are? It's the strangest thing. The fact that he has these trainers and he has this schedule, I mean, he has like the schedule that everybody assumes that all NFL coaches have, right? Get into the facility at 4 a.m., get out by 8 p.m., hopefully.

And then we went through like his workout routine in this article. I was so intrigued by that. Were you? What was the part that you liked the most about it? Let me just read it to the audience. I don't think everybody has probably read this. So to your point, it says he gets into the facility at 4 a.m. And he works out with a member of the strength and conditioning staff. So whoever that guy, they name a couple names here, those guys are like,

I didn't think we were going to have to come in at 4 a.m. To work out with the coach. Like we have a day-long thing to do with all the players. We're trying to get them ready for the off-season program and, you know, the training camp and all that. but they're coming in working out the coach who's 63 years old. And it says, Billy, that it's a program merging of the Ravens and Giants philosophies and is broken down into three-week cycles defined by different exercises and tempos.

Sometimes the emphasis was on explosion, other times on deceleration. Monday's circuit training, Tuesday's leg days, Wednesday's upper body, Thursday's cardio, Friday's core shoulder and arms. And if Harba, it says if Harba doesn't look his age, this routine is why. His leg squats are impressive, and he still looks like he can match his career best bench press of 335 pounds, Billy,

as a college safety at Miami, Ohio. I mean, I read this. I said, I want video. I want the old New York Giants.com. Give me the behind the scenes where you're filming. him coming in at 4 a.m. I want to see him doing these squats, these, these bench presses. I want to see every aspect of this workout routine. Is he listening to a podcast? Maybe he's listening to us right now. Hey, coach. Does he listen to music? Hey, coach, how are you? Good to talk to

you again. So I found that just very, very intriguing. He's a 63 to be doing this workout routine. And like you said, clearly he's like, I want people to know this. I'm in great shape. And here's what I do. I caught a little flex by you there. That great to speak to you again, Coach. So it seems as though you're putting it out. Hey, remember me? It's Shield.

That was many years ago. I caught a flex from you. Who were you? Michael Scher. Was that on tailgate? That clip that came, yeah. You subtly will name drop a little bit. And I like it.

I think it's good for content. I just want you to know I'm noticing. I didn't like it. I didn't want to do it because here's the thing. Was it you that I told that I usually lie down about my height? like I say that I'm shorter than I am. That was me, yes. Yeah.

So it's the same with that. I don't like doing a name drop like that because I don't want people to misinterpret and think that there's a closer relationship than there is. Like, I want to be very clear. It's not a close relationship. You know, it's not like we've ever gone out and had dinner together or anything like that. Like, it's just, I feel uncomfortable. But that's your move, I find.

You do the name drop, but then you do the immediate caveat that we're not actually that good friend. False humility. Yeah, I think that's it. Interesting. John Harper. Wow, geez, shot fired over here by his shield. Do you think he really benches 325 or whatever?

No chance, right? No, 63, that seems very dangerous. Like, you shouldn't even be... I was you. Right? Things just... I mean, look at you. You're out there, not that you're 63,

but you're out there just saying, like, I don't know what happened in my rotator cuff. Where if something happens to his, it's like, coach, maybe it was the 400 pounds you were trying to squat the other day that happened to you. Like, stop doing that. Also, to your point, this training step has to be like,

what are we doing? Why are we doing this? Coach, can we do this like an 8.30 workout? Like maybe get in and check some emails at 4 a.m. Like, why do I have to be in for this situation? How do you think you would do, Sheel, if you had a job where it's not part of his job. He's made this part of his job, right?

But I guess he's in charge and he only reports to, you know, the owner. So he doesn't have to answer to anyone else. So he can just kind of do whatever he wants. And part of his job seems to be the daily workout. and he has his people coming in, working him out, when it's like, coach, some people might wonder, is this abuse of power or we're just using the facilities

and the staff to kind of benefit ourselves? Not I. I wouldn't say that, coach, if you're listening right now at this 4 a.m., and this is what day is today. The show will be out, what day is, Friday morning? Friday. I don't know what day it is anymore. After the season end, I don't know what day it is.

Anyway, how do you think you would be if part of your job was just exercise every day? Do you think that you'd be substantial, different built? I would love that, first of all, if that was part of the job, you know? And I actually wouldn't, you know, I think I could get into a routine where I was waking up that early and making it, all right, we're going to have a very structured routine. We're going to get, but I would need to go to bed at a reasonable hour.

Like, he is still, it sounds like, because, you know, if you're going to focus on the health, you can't be getting like four or five hours of sleep and doing this, you know, especially in your 60s. that doesn't seem healthy, but I don't know if it's an abusive power or not. Like, obviously one great part about working for an NFL team is you get to use the training. You get to use the workout facility. That's like a world-class gym with all the best stuff in there for professional athletes making millions of dollars. But yeah, once you bring in the strength and conditioning coach to it, that's very interesting to me.

Like, are those guys just complaining to their whoever, their lives, they're just, oh my God, sorry, son. I'm not going to see. Yeah, well, I'll see you on the weekend because I'm out of the, literally out of our house at 3.30 because I have to be there working out our coach at 4 a.m. in the off season. It's February, Billy. This is usually when they get to at least relax a little bit. That's crazy. That's crazy. Like, this is the time like, oh, I could finally take my kids to school. It's like, nope, you can't do drop off today. Got to be in 3.30. Because not just the coach, the boss, because of the way that this, you know, power dynamic has been structured is saying you got to come in. And you know what? Here's the importance, I think, as someone who is not in good shape. And this will be one of my followers. But you are a former college athlete, Paul Volta. I am, yes. But here's the thing. A very important thing in getting in shape I've experienced

and having that routine is having a good gym buddy, you know, having someone there that's going to push you. If you have a trainer, it's the same, I guess, because you go and they push you, they tell you what to do and they're helping you a long way. But doing it on your own is very hard to do. and it's hard to kind of have that discipline if you're really just working out by yourself at a gym.

So he's forcing gym buddies. These aren't bonds that have actually been created with these trainers. It's kind of like they're there, but I almost wonder, do they want him to succeed? Are they kind of coaching him the proper way? Or is this just a, it's 415 on a Tuesday, the third week of February. Like, let's just get through this exercise

and get on to whatever is next in my day. you know? And then if we're just kind of going through the motions in the gym, could this potentially be putting his health at risk? Could he now get some sort of injury? Imagine if we have to see Jim Harbaugh on the sideline at some point this year. And he's on one of those like those scooters. Wheel around. Yeah, that you just put your knee on and you hold it and it's like one knee is on it. Yeah, because he like tears an Achilles or something in the gym because, you know, his trainer's not paying attention because they're being forced against their will to be in there.

at 4.17 a.m. Well, listen, the power dynamic is something else that was in this article, and that's in pretty much all the coverage of John Harbaugh, where in everything I read, he tries to say something about Joe Shane, but he also makes it very clear that Joe Shane has no power, and it's basically there to get him coffee. You know, like he hired Don Aponte, who is a senior VP of football operations and strategy, and he's basically like, all right, she's going to, you know, be the one in charge of a lot of stuff. And then he's, He retells the story while I was flirting with the Titans because I needed to make sure that I was only reporting to the owner. I'm not reporting to Joe Shane.

So yes, I think everybody in the building right now knows that John Harbaugh is running the show, including the strength and conditioning staff. They're like, yeah, of course we have to show up here because this guy could have us fired. This guy could have us hired, whatever. So I understand that. But then the other aspect of this, Billy, did you notice what he's eating for breakfast? It got into what he eats a little bit during the course of the day. There was some oats in there, right? I've been reading conflicting things on oats, to be honest with you guys as late.

Yeah. Well, do you want to share that before? I've been reading it's not as good for you as some people are leading on, which, by the way, what a time we live in, right? We're back in the day, just four out of five dentists could tell us which is the best toothpaste to use and you'd say, all right, good enough for me, right? But now there's all these diets out there and some people are saying, hey, you should only eat me. you should be like on this carnivore diet. You should be vegan or there's a Mediterranean diet where there's only fish involved

and then there's gluten-free and then some people say, you know what, you should be eating more of this, less of this. Atkins, no carbs. Intermittent fasting. No carbs, only carbs. Some fasting, no fasting, only water. Can we kind of come to a resolution here as a people on what it is that we should and shouldn't be eating?

Because then I'm going online and I'm seeing like, this is what, not to mention any names of brands, but this is what this orange soda looks like in America, and this is what the exact same orange soda looks like in Europe. Look at all this artificial coloring, and there's 46 grams of sugar in this one, and only 12 grams of sugar in this one, and it tastes exactly the same.

It's like, where do I live? Like, where should I live so that I can have the best possible bread that's healthy for me that's not going to slowly kill me? Because every article that I read about anything is basically telling me, this is how this product is giving you cancer. I can't light a scented candle because I'm going to get sick from the scented candle. And I can't eat this bread because of the way that it's processed.

And I can't take a shower after this time of night because that's going to get me sick. And I should only be having cold showers because the hot showers do something to my body in the morning where the cold shower is the equivalent of drinking coffee, which I shouldn't be drinking anyways because that's a problem. I can't keep track of this anymore, Sheel. Like, it's not working out for me. Absolutely right. I mean, I mentioned my Instagram algorithm when we were in San Francisco. And yeah, I scroll on one thing and it's like, have this much protein.

And then the next one's like, all right, you don't need the people are lying to. You actually don't need that much protein. And then one's like, oh, you should be taking this at this time of day. And then the next one's like, biggest lies ever told, you have to take protein at a certain time. Which one is it? I don't know who to believe with these Instagram trainers. Chris Long told me to take creotene gummies in the morning and that that will be helping me with my body when we were at the Super Bowl. No, I started looking it up

and I was seeing mixed reviews on that and I was like, I don't know if Chris Long thinks that I have the same workout regimen that he does and that I should be taking the same supplements that he's taking because we have very different body types and the effort of the gym between the two of us is very different.

We're probably similar in age, but he is biologically a lot younger than I am. Yeah, okay. So can I tell you one thing in the article that I read before because I feel like you're moving on to the next thing? You know who I felt got the most pressure out of anyone in this article

by John Harbaugh. Matt Nagy. You saw it too. Yeah, go ahead. Tell the people what he said. He said that he expects Matt Nagy to be the best offensive quarter to coordinator to coach the game.

Ever. Where is he getting this from? I understand you want to support your guys and your hires. That's a crazy quote. How did that not get aggregated everywhere? That should have been, my timeline nonstop. I had the same thought. And, uh, you know, I'm looking at this because if

you're a Giants fan, you went through the excitement of landing John Harbaugh, where you're like, this is the best case scenario. We got John Harbaugh and, you know, Joe Shane doesn't have power. It's a good situation. And then John Harbaugh put together his coaching staff, Billy. And Matt Nackie is his offensive coordinator. And as he said, I'm hoping he'll be the best offensive coordinator to ever coach the game. That's what we're shooting for. I expect. Matt to be the best ever. Actual quote from John Harbaugh in this athletic article. They're too intense.

Tone it down. Harbaugh's like, relax. Then Brian Callahan, he hired as the offensive coaching staff, who was one of the worst head coaches we've seen in the last decade. I know it's a different job, but he was like legit, like, oh my gosh, this guy, I don't even know how they're fielding a team right now. This guy is so lost with what to do. By the way, he left the Bengals and the Bengals offense got better after he left.

But all right, so he got Brian Callahan there. And then, Billy, he brought in Greg Roman, who Chargers fans like threw a parade when they got rid of Greg Roman this offseason. And Greg Roman is literally going from brother to brother. He was with John Harbaugh with the Ravens, got fired for Todd Monkin. Jim Harbaugh takes over the Chargers.

He gets hired by Jim Harbaugh with the Chargers. Jim Harbaugh has seen enough after two years, fires him, goes to Mike McDaniel. Now he's going back to John Harbaugh with the Giants. Now, this is the offseason. So I'm getting caught up on some TV, Philly, and I don't know how many people will get the right. He's like Isabel Conklin. Am I right?

I don't know who that is, but you're right. Some right turn pretty. No, okay. Basically, you can't decide between the two brothers. Whose side are you on? Not to spoil anything. I think, you know, it's been out for a long time. But, you know.

Did you see who was also floated out there? Because it was reported, like he filled out this 30-person staff, but he really reached out to hundreds of people over calls and texts. And one name that was highlighted as a person he was discussing, but did not end up agreeing to terms with was defensive coordinator, Rex Ryan. Rex Ryan. It's so great there. It wouldn't have worked, but just throwing Rex into this insanity would have been so good.

When's Rex going to get another shot? Where's Rob, by the way? Is Robb still out there? Rob was an assistant somewhere last year. I don't know. But yeah, you know, I read the name, you know, I saw who he ended up with, and then I saw who we spoke to. And as someone who has kind of defended John Harbaugh and thought he was a very good coach, I did sort of land on I'm not sure how this is going to go. But you know what?

Fantastic content. And by the way, the breakfast was consisted of energy bars, oat bars, and oatmeal packs that his assistant lifted from her hotel lobby, which I thought, can we do a little bit better for the $20 million a year? Yeah. Can we have someone make a smoothie ready for it? ready for him and leave it in the fridge at the cafeteria or something the night before. Because that felt to me, like if you're putting in the effort for all the workouts, we need to focus on the breakfast a little bit more. Pay for your meals. What are we taking for the hotel lobby for?

Also, Rob Ryan is at USC in case you were wondering. There I was. I was kind of on the edge of my seat there. If I'm being honest, I wasn't sure. Okay. John Horbaugh, Ian O'Connor, the athletic. The content's fantastic. I am more interested in the Giants than I have been in a very long time.

Giants social media, Giants video content team, if you're listening to this, let's get some more details. If we see the workouts, maybe Billy and I, maybe he pops a creatine gummy, and then he does a John Harbaugh workout.

We get a little video for that, and we're just, the views are going through the roof. Giants, if you're out there, you want to invite us up for a workout? I will happily go up with Shield and workout with Coach Harbaugh, you know? Let's do it.

If we have to do 4 a.m., like one day, we can, we'll be there. We'll make it work out. I'll be there at 345. There you go. Let's do it.

All right. Let's take one more break. We come back. We've got some other stories that have our attention. All right. We are back here on the Ringer NFL show. Billy, I don't even know what to say about this one, but I just wanted to get your take if you have anything interesting about it.

If not, we can move on. But the 49ers are playing in Mexico and Australia next year. Two international games they're playing for the first time ever. they give up a home game to play in Mexico City and then they're going to play in Melbourne against the Los Angeles Rams. Do you have any strong takes on the international play or do you want me to just move on?

No, I saw that they're traveling over 38,000 miles next season, which seems absolutely brutal. It seems as though the NFL is seeing what they can do to the 49ers and their bodies. There's that substation situation where they were looking into that or not, and that was leading to injuries. And I said, you know what?

We hear your complaints. Let's get you away from that a little bit. Let's make sure that you have some time away from the substation and your body gets, why don't you get on a plane for 20 hours and go to Australia? How far is Australia from? I guess California is not as far,

but it's still, it's not a short flight. And if we're going to be honest, I understand, you know, globalization of this. We have a lot of international fans of this podcast. I'm just telling you. Be careful. That's fine.

That's fine. I got you. I got you. Do we really need to play a game in Australia? Honestly. Like, do we need a game in Australia? Like, is that super necessary to send teams to Australia?

Well, you could ask that about any of them, right? Like, is it super necessary to have them play in any? You know, they're playing in Paris. They're playing in. Germany. They're playing all over the place. So, yeah. Mexico City.

Mexico City, we've had Mexico City games before. Have we not? We had a Monday night. I remember we had one of the best games ever in Mexico City, right? Wasn't Rams and Chiefs a couple years ago in Mexico City? Like that Monday Night game that was really high scoring? I think that's right. I think that was in Mexico City.

So Mexico City, that's fine. That's not that far. Australia and the same team. Like, what are we doing to the 40? These aren't the Jaguars. Like the Jaguars we can send all around the world. The Jaguars are essentially a European team. If you were in Europe, if you lived in London,

you probably think, wow, the Jaguars are one of the most popular teams in the NFL because that's the only team that you see every single season. Now the Jaguars are good and I guess like, yeah, we can't keep doing it to the Jaguars. So who do you do it to? But not the 49ers. What do we have to do this to Kyle Shanahan for? What did he ever do?

Listen, our Australian listeners, I love you, I appreciate you. And I believe you deserve at least one game. A pre-season game. I would have given you two. if we're being honest. Is that so? Yeah, I don't, listen, I don't know where this is going to end. I'm happy for the fans who get to watch it.

As someone who sits here on my couch and watches the games, I don't necessarily love it. You should go. Yeah, I would be in on that. I'm going to put it out there, Sheel. I think this is going to be, do we know what week it is or no? No, we know they're playing the Rams in Australia.

We don't know who they're playing in Mexico City. That will be in December. Okay. Mexico City's in December. Yes. And Australia is in September. So the Australia game then is not going to be like a Saturday night game because it's too early in the season. I'm going to go out on the limb. I'm going to say this is going to be a Sunday night or a Monday night game.

Okay. There you go. You heard it from Billy first. All right. The last two headlines here, Billy, I think they're connected in my mind. And I don't know if they're connected in your mind. But let's do them together. So the first one is 49ers say they'll keep Mac Jones. Jones, but stars could be aligning for a trade. That's from Matt Barrows of the Athletic.

And then the next one, this is from the athletic, and I don't know that this is the exact headline, but this is my headline. Are the Vikings done with J.J. McCarthy? Now, I know what you're saying. How are those two things connected? You called your shot with the Australia game? I'm calling my shot here.

I was wrong about that, by the way. They've already said it's going to be Wednesday, September 9th or Thursday, September 10th. So it will not be a Sunday or Monday night game. Listen, we all shoot or shoot, right? Yeah, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. That's the thing about

basketball. You just always got to be prepared to make the next shot, you know, even if you miss it. So I'm picking you up as your teammate because, you may have just missed one, but now we got the ball back and I'm calling my shot that Mack Jones will be the starter for the Minnesota Vikings in week one of the

2026 season. So I was reading all this coverage in the athletic. And the 49ers like, Kyle Shanahan says, there are no rush to trade Mac Jones. And I actually believe him because Mac Jones is on a very cheap contract and the 49ers are trying to win a Super Bowl. And Brock Purdy is at injury issues. And they just showed last year that they can win with Mac Jones. So I don't think they're actually lying there. However, there's always a price where you say, oh, this team offered this. now we actually have to consider it and have a meeting. And I'm looking at the Vikings, Billy, as maybe the most interesting team of the offseason

because Kevin O'Connell won the power struggle over Quasi Adofa Mensa. O'Connell's running the show now. He obviously wants a quarterback. They went nine and eight and their quarterback play stunk last year. So all these quarterbacks I'm looking at, would it be Kyler Murray maybe? Anthony Richardson, is that going to be good enough? I think Mack Jones, the Vikings might look at this and say,

let's give a day two pick to the 49ers, maybe a second rounder, maybe a third rounder. That's going to be enough for them to say, hey, we can't keep a backup quarterback when we could get a second or a third round pick. And the Vikings are going to say, we don't have to pay them a lot of money. We've got a great defense. By the way, we just watched the Seahawks. Great defense, good offensive coaching, great number one wide receiver. It was good enough for them to win the Super Bowl. Kevin O'Connell is going to say, why can't that be me?

We're going to be the team that surprises everyone in 2026 with Mack Jones as our starting quarterback. What do you think? Mack Jones is interesting, right? We saw him last season. He beat the Rams in an overtime game. It was a heroic game where he's vomiting on the sidelines. He has a knee injury. He's doing all that.

His first season in the league, we thought, okay, like, Mac Jones. Mac Jones can do well. He succeeded under Josh McDaniels. He was a pro bowler, I think, his first season. And then Josh McDaniels heads out of town. And then they say, you know what? We're going to bring a map for Patricia and Joe Judge will be in here. And then things fell apart.

And then Bill Belichick, who's known, you know, as a teddy bear to everyone, said, you know what? This is come over here, come under my wing. I will nurse your back south. No, he didn't do any of that because he's a cactus. And Mac Jones situation didn't work out with Bill Belichick. So he's gone. He goes over to San Francisco. And now he's just learning under Kyle Shannon.

which, by the way, you alluded to this earlier or we were talking about quarterbacks on the move. And I think it was Kyle Shanahan that you said, oh, Kyle Shanahan took a look at this quarterback. I'm so sick and tired of hearing coaches say, oh, yeah, come over here. We thought about drafting you. That happened with Todd Munkin and Chador Sanders.

Like, oh, we tried to get you, but now, now here we are. We're together again. It's like, if you really wanted that quarterback, you would have drafted that quarterback. Like, you could say you were flirting with him and, oh, I really wanted you, but circumstances didn't let me like, no, no.

I have a great idea. Okay. Sorry. You just burn. Sometimes you bring some ideas out of me. Yeah. And I thought, this is an idea for a business or a company or the NFL or whatever to make more money where they should say NFL, NFL, assistant coaches, GM, scouts, whatever.

After the draft, you may send us your actual takes. Like if you're someone who's like, I loved Patrick Mahomes in this draft, my team didn't draft him, and you send it to some organization. Maybe it's the NFL. Maybe it's a third party organization. And they keep all this stuff in a vault. Locked up. Locked up.

And then down the road, if you ever want to claim something like this or a report comes out, we go to that central organization and we look back at the date. Okay, Todd Monk had said they okay, let me look back. Did he turn anything in? And if he didn't turn anything in, then we all say, liar, you're lying. Lyer. You're just hindsight. Yeah.

And you can't do that. No, what do? I think there's the, I didn't really have a fully, uh, fleshed out idea there. But are there, are there seeds of an idea there? There's definitely seeds. I was thinking maybe we, we, we, I think we definitely have to have the coach on a camera and we have the player on camera also. So you see it.

And then you have a third party open the vault or scratch. If it's like a scratch off thing and it reveals what the true feelings are. And then you have a camera on each of them while someone, someone like a, we need like a real intellectual to read it. Someone who's not necessarily tied to the situation at all, but someone who's just like very prim and proper just kind of reading what it is that was said about the person. And then a camera on both of them where we see what the actual thoughts were of the person at the time. I think there's something. Let's think about this a little bit more. sold for a lot of money to a street. Maybe Netflix, we've come up with ideas for Netflix before.

Yeah, yeah. Let's just pass this along to them. Yeah. So here's the thing about Mac Jones. Why would you get rid of him if you're Shanahan when you have him for so cheap? Like, what is it? Because you're going to then have to fill the backup role. We saw backups last year.

Like, James was getting like, I think James signed like a two-year, $8 million deal, so $4 million a year. Zach Wilson, I think, signed a one-year. a million dollar deal as a backup. He's a serviceable backup. And he also, from his own, like, quotes, doesn't want to go. He wants to continue to learn from Kyle Shanahan for another year, which you don't believe him.

You think he's a liar here. I mean, that's something you say, you know, I don't think he wants to go to a terrible team, but if it was like, hey, let me go to the Vikings, I think he would probably be okay with that. But you bring up a good point. Would you take Mack Jones or Malik Willis? Not to connect all of our stories today. but if you had the option,

and it only takes you a third round pick to get Mac Jones, would you take Mac Jones? I think if I were the Vikings, oh, that's actually, I think if I had like the system in place and the infrastructure, I want Mac Jones. So I think if I'm the Vikings, I'm like, listen, just do what I say.

I'm going to tell you exactly what to do. Do it every single time repetitively. You don't have to be creative, anything like that. Then I'm taking Mac Jones. But if I'm like the Cardinals, Mac Jones doesn't get me anywhere. I would rather swing for the fences with the Malik Willis. Here's the thing about J.J. McCarthy and the Vikings and Kevin O'Connell that kind of stinks, right?

It seems as though if we interpreted the story correctly, the reason that J.J. McCarthy is still there and Sam Darnold is not is because it was a power struggle between their GM that has now been fired and Kevin O'Connell. and the GM1, which is why J.J. McCarthy is now there. So the Vikings are now trying to figure out their own situation. And I think you even said it before, maybe the Vikings can be the Seahawks of next season. And the Vikings could have been the Seahawks of this past season had they not given up their quarterback to the Seahawks. So now they're going to bank on Mac Jones potentially coming in

to take them to the promised land, where again, And with the perfect fit, it seems like he can thrive, but is the Vikings going to be the perfect fit? I mean, you have Brian Flores' defense, which is going to be great too, and that'll help him out. And, you know, you have great receivers.

He's going to have weapons there. So you're talking me into this Mack Jones, the Vikings situation a little bit. Well, listen, because the Kirk Cousins thing is picking up steam, but it's like, is it Mac Jones, like a younger Kirk Cousins at his best? Yeah, Matt Jones? I would almost say this could be a longer term fit.

I just feel like the Vikings, Kevin O'Connell's going to do something drastic this offseason. I feel like he's so annoyed that Darnold left, won a Super Bowl, and he's like, it's my. And by the way, the Vikings still went nine and eight. Like if I'm O'Connell, I'm like, we still did a great coaching job being Brian Flores. We still went nine and eight,

even though we got nothing from our quarterback. Well, guess what? We're going to go get our quarterback. The third round pick, 98, 82nd, 98, something like that. overall to the 49ers, do the 49ers do it? Do you have to throw in a conditional pick? I feel like there's something there where it could make a lot of sense. Yes, the 82nd overall pick where the 49ers would say, we need to get draft capital. We need younger players.

We need to get a better, you know, a younger roster where we don't have the luxury of just holding on to a backup quarterback. And also, Kyle Shanahan's looking in the mirror going, please, I can find another guy who could give me Mac Jones level play. You think that was him? That was all me. We don't need Mac Jones. Let's take the third round pick. So I'm calling my shot with that way. I think if I'm Kyle Shanahan,

I don't want to have quarterbacks go for me to Kevin O'Connell that then Kevin O'Connell can try to kind of take credit for. But also, on the flip side, if you're Kevin O'Connell, do you want to keep getting Kyle Shanahan guys that are always going to be credited with Kyle Shanahan, turn them around? Because that happened with Darnel.

Darnal was like by one year with Shanahan and Purdy, man, that really is what fixed me. This is a weird situation. for the Shanahan O'Connell. I feel bad for Kevin O'Connell, if I'm going to be honest with you. Imagine living in a world where Sam Darnold

is the one that got away. That is kind of sad. All right, you convince me. It's not great, but you know what? Now he's got his chance to write his wrong. I'm telling you,

Vikings, one of the most interesting off-season teams because they're doing something at quarterback. I just don't know what it is. All right, there you go. His name is Billy Gill. Those are the stories

that caught our attention. this week. Thank you to Billy for joining me. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing Stephano Sanchez on video editing and additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna. Ramgo-Pal. I'm Shil Kabatia. We will talk to you next time on the Ringer NFL show. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-G-Halt.com. Call 1-88-7-9-7-7 or visit ccpd.org. Chat in Connecticut or visit MDGamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline, MA.org or call 800-32750-50 for 24-7-supported Massachusetts or call

1877-8-N-Y or text Hope, NY in New York for Louisiana. Call 1877-777-7-867-7-867.