The Ringer NFL Show - Mallory and Mina’s Most Intriguing NFL Draft Questions | The Ringer NFL Show

Episode Date: April 17, 2020

The Ringer’s Mallory Rubin is joined by ESPN’s Mina Kimes to discuss some of their most intriguing questions heading into the the 2020 NFL draft. Among the questions answered are who their no. 1 overall pick is, which team will have a draft-night malfunction, who will be Belichick’s next QB, who will be the fantasy rookie MVP, who will be draft night’s fashion MVP, and more. Host: Mallory Rubin Guest: Mina Kimes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network is brought to you by World Central Kitchen. Their relief team is working across America to safely distribute individually packaged fresh meals and communities that need support. They're now serving tens of thousands of meals daily in some of our biggest cities like New York and L.A. And they're launching initiatives across America to deliver fresh hot meals to hospitals and clinics fighting on the front lines while keeping local restaurants and business as well. You can directly help the heroes in hospitals and clinics who are fighting for us, and you can help keep your local restaurants alive. Go to the ringer.com slash WCK to donate. We are trying to raise $250,000, so please, please donate.

If you have the means, it is an unbelievably great and useful cause that helps our hospital heroes, emergency workers, and local restaurants. Please give whatever you can. The money goes directly to World Central Kitchen, and it's a charitable donation. Once again, that's the ringer.com slash WCK. And welcome. The Ringer NFL show. I'm Mallory Rubin, editor-in-chief of The Ringer.com.

Folks, it is an honor and a privilege to say that joining me today, now that she and Lenny have finally pulled themselves away from soaking up all of Pete Carol and Steve Kerr's pearls of wisdom on the Ringer's new flying coach pod, it's ESPN senior writer Mina Kimes, host of the ESPN Daily, podcast, The Mina Kimes Show featuring Lenny, Friend of the Ringer, regular presence in your earbuds, on your TV screens, on your computer screens, your favorite dog Instagram or your favorite Seahawks enthusiast in addition to Danny Kelly, of course, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Mina, welcome.

It's quite the introduction. I just like to say, now, before we get started, I've done a lot of Ringer podcasts at this point. And I don't, I podcast by myself. I don't have a partner. But if I did have a podcast partner at ESPN, you would be my whole pass. Wow.

I'm really touched. I'm blushing. If we hadn't deactivated our Zoom cameras, you'd see that I'm blushing. And I feel the same way about you, pal. I really do. I also right before doing this podcast was taping with Mel Kuiper Jr.

And in my head, I keep thinking Mal Kuiper Jr. now, which I think should stick. Children of Baltimore. Yeah, you know, totally. Got a lot in common. Oriel pendants in our respective homes. I'm sure he's a fan of crab chips, just as I am.

Do you eat a pumpkin pie every morning for breakfast like him? You know, I don't, but now that you've suggested it, I don't see any reason not to. I love pumpkin pie. I think it's delicious. I think the pie is one of the most superior food groups out there. And yes, I think the pie is a food group. I'm going to consider this.

My current breakfast routine is pretty limited, I have to say. But maybe post-quarantine. Yeah, Mel's kept it up during the quarantine. In fact, his, I don't know why I'm turning, I'm completely derailing us into a Mel Khyper Junior podcast. So I asked him, I was like, are you able to get your, you know, your pumpkin pie? He eats the filling, like in a can. And he said, no.

But his wife. Like pudding? Like, yeah. Yeah, like pudding, basically. Like from Safeway, he says. He only likes one brand. But his wife has been making. making him homemade pumpkin pies to eat for breakfast during the quarantine.

So, first of all, that's incredible. And I think that's a real incited to what love is. I do have some questions about how you could get that steadiest supply of pumpkins in April. But I'm impressed. I mean, this is the kind of consistent commitment that Mel is looking for in his prospects when he's scouting for the NFL draft, you know? He picked also the same guy for Baltimore that you did. So if you want to segue back to the draft, we can you sell. Yeah.

Well, no, I think before the draft, you got to quickly update all of us on your life. How's your quarantine going? How's Lenny? Yeah. Man, I'm busy. You know, draft is always a busy time for me because plug your shit. Let's go. Well, I do other stuff you mentioned.

But I was going to say more so because it's a lot of cramming. I'm an NFL person more than a – I watch college football. I watch the big teams, the big games. So, you know, it's not hard for me to talk about your burrow. your Tua's, your lambs. So in other words, you are equipped to help draft for the Las Vegas Raiders because they're only going to take players who participated in the college football playoff.

You're good. You're good to join Gruden and Mayak immediately. Exactly. Yes, I know they like the blue chips there. But, you know, I got to do a lot of cramming for some of the other guys. So it's kind of, the raft's always that weird time when college football analysts have to learn what's happening to NFL, and NFL analysts have to figure out who the heck some of these prospects are.

and we do our best and we try to meet in the middle. I know you were a college football editor at S.I. So this is in your blood. Back in the day, though, you know, you're dating me. I'm like 900 years old now, as you know. I mean, I've always been 900 in spirit and soul. But now I'm also 900 in body,

which you only need to look at my current gray hair count to be able to confirm. You know, I talked about this with Bill a few times during this football season. I have probably watched less college football in the last couple years as at any point in the past, I don't know, decade and a half, two decades just because it's not my primary responsibility anymore as an editor like it used to be back in the SI days. And, you know, there have been moments where I have proclaimed boldly that I'm going to leave college football behind. You know, I just can't stand all of the moral quandaries that come with following the sport. But I kind of can't shake it.

It's just in my blood. And the draft is such a huge part of that because I'm such an NFL fan. I spent so much time professionally working on NFL content and thinking about it. And I really love that aspect of it, you know, tracking a prospect from like one of the reasons that I still to this day, I'm like, you guys want to talk about Josh Rosen for a little while is because I just am still thinking back to his elite 11 days when he was correcting Trent Dofer in the coaching playbook, you know? And so that part of draft season is always so fun for me. I'm cognizant of my own college fandom biases and how I apply that to

scouting the prospects, which I think will surface numerous times today when I basically answer every single question by shouting Henry Ruggs into the microphone and you have to tell me that that's not what we're talking about. So wild for that, by the way. I can't wait. I can't wait. But yeah, I love the draft. I love draft season.

I think right now in particular, a lot of sports fans, you know, kind of almost regardless of your respective investment in college football as a proposition, are really immersing themselves in the draft because, of course, it's one of the only things that's actually unfolding in real time and happening. And, you know, we're a week out. this podcast is going to publish on Friday, April 17th. We're recording it on Thursday afternoon, April 16th. Craig, you're free to cut that if I'm not supposed to say those things. Go with God, my dude. But we're about a week out. So we have a feel for the rumor mill and how it's churning,

but there's also a lot that remains unclear. Maybe we'll see some trades. We're obviously also heading into an incredibly unique situation with a virtual draft, which we're going to talk about a couple times today. And so you put all of that together in the big draft pot and you stir the cauldron. And that's why we thought it would be fun to hop on the mic and chat for a few minutes today. You know, we toyed with the idea of doing a mock draft. And then we thought, what if instead of just going team by team and drafting players on behalf of those teams, we drafted storylines, you know? We drafted the things that are interesting to us, shook it up a little bit. We're going to run through 10 of the biggest questions that are on our minds heading into the draft. Call it Mal and

Mina's most intriguing. That was your idea. I love it. It's like a crossover episode. There will, of course, be the requisite Seahawks and Ravens talk. Our pets will undoubtedly appear. You'll get a, you'll get a Lenny Bark. You'll get a halo stomp on my keyboard in the middle of an important sentence. We will undoubtedly parse Dave Gettelman's Zoom prowess, Roger Goudel's home leisure wear, but also, you know, we're actually going to talk about to Chase Young and C.D. Lamb and whatnot. So with all of that preamble, why don't we just dive into our first question, which is about the first player who's going to be taken in the draft? Who is your number one overall? Is this as easy for you as it is for the Cincinnati Bengals and the bulk of the NFL draft Nick community? Are you going with Burrow?

The only, I have two negatives for Borough, just two. Okay. One is the one you will hear approximately 4,000. You've already heard 4,000 times. You'll continue to hear, which is, it's not unprecedented, but it's extraordinarily rare for a college quarterback to have, to make the kind of jump he did and then have only one truly elite season. I had Spencer Hall, who's fantastic on my pod this week,

and he mentioned Carson Palmer being the example he could think of, which is a great example. There are very few, right? Because when we talk about Kyler Murray or Dwayne Haskins or whatever, they only had one year, but they only played. They only started one year. So what Joe Burrow has done is somewhat unprecedented. So that's one negative.

The only other negative I can think for him is that he always looks like he's on the verge of getting a cold. That's it now. That's all I got. Otherwise, he is based on his 2019 tape, he is a flawless prospect. Now, again, you can point to the jump. You can point to the fact that he was playing with Jamar Chase,

who I think is the best wide receiver in football. You can even argue, well, he was always out of empty. It's weird, you know, so that he could diagnose defenses with ease. All that's true. But just based on a throw-by-throw basis, the accuracy, the touch, the mobility, the pocket movement, I cannot find a flaw. Yeah, I agree with all of that. And, you know, as somebody who routinely gets colds,

I don't like to discriminate against people who look as though they're always on the verge of sneezing or needing to update their Claritin stash shouts to Claritin. But the one-year wonder critique, it just doesn't bother me with Burrow the way that you would think it would. And it's strange because so many of the facets of that argument when you parse it, they do actually support it. And yet it still doesn't bother me. You know, for example, think about the system that LSU was running. You know, Joe Burrow won the Heisman, LSU won the national title. Joe Burrow had arguably the greatest statistical season in college football history.

He was in the Joe Brady offense. And Joe Brady had this prodigy level ascendance, right? Where he went from one year in the role of passing game coordinator for LSU to making the jump to the NFL, where he is now, of course, on the Carolina Panther staff as the OC. But I think that Borough is just one of those unique prospects where kind of whichever way you like to assess, you know, if you're going to look at the statistics, if you're going to look at tape, the eye test, intangibles, really any of it, it's just pretty hard to nitpick. And, you know, I say that as somebody who has been Team Tua for basically as long as it's been possible to be Team Tua and Tia. Tua is still the best quarterback in this class in my heart, but I don't think it's really possible to defend taking him over Burrow right now coming off the hip injury. And when you add in the tightrope surgery on both ankles,

you're talking three leg surgeries over, in essence, a calendar year. So I'm not going to attempt to argue for Tua. I think we'll return to Tua later when we get into the current. Herbert obsessions sweeping the football viewing public. But let's let's both, let's both attempt to exercise some willpower and save it for later so we don't talk about Herbert for like 90 straight minutes. I can't wait to get into that.

It's really fucking bizarre to me. I can't wait. I cannot wait to hear everything you have to say about Herbert. I can't wait. We're going to spend six foot six equivalent of podcast time talking about Herbert. Don't get me started on the height. You get me started. He's too tall.

I agree. I agree. Borough, Ohio guy, you know, born in Iowa, but an Ohio guy, Mr. football in the state of Ohio as a high school player, Gatorade player of the year, obviously was at Ohio State before he transferred. And that's part of it too. I think whenever you're assessing a late blooming prospect and you're factoring a transfer into that, I mean, just look at the recent draft history, Kyler Baker, Burrow, continuing

a proud trend in that sense. Coach's kid, you know, really strong leader. I find his charisma quite winning. You know, I loved, for example, the way he just leaned into making fun of his tiny hands after the hand measuring at the combine. Like that, I don't know. Some people might hear that and say, like, if you think that matters, you're an idiot. But I think it's important not to take yourself too seriously when you're going to have the kind of pressure on you that a number one draft pick is going to have. But also he has shown that he actually is. able to handle the pressure because he just, again, went through a literally historic season. And then that gets to the way he plays actually on the field.

You know, does he have the strongest arm? No, of course, the players in this draft class who do have the strongest arms have other question marks, and we'll talk about those later. But the pinpoint accuracy, you know, surprisingly elusive as a passer. I think the way that he responds to pressure and the way that he plays under. pressure is up there with his accuracy and his efficiency is the most tantalizing things about him as a prospect. So this nugget from ESPN's John Parallin.

There was a piece about, you know, assessing all of the pressure responses in this quarterback class. And this is, this nugget here is just mind-blowing. Burroughs line against pressure last season, 72% completion percentage, 11.4 yards per per attempt, 20 touchdown passes. All of his numbers from last season are just unbelievable. That's shit crazy. It's unreal.

So crazy. So, first of all, on the cleverness and the time. tweets. I was looking for, sometimes when I start coming up with comps for players, then I'll look and see, okay, have a lot of people made this comp? Because I don't want to be part of a hive mind necessarily. So I was searching Joe Burrow, Andrew Luck, a cast a couple weeks ago. And what came up was an old tweet from Joe Burrow with a picture of Andrew Luck with a beard that said Andrew Luck looks like every Russian bad guy in every action movie ever. And I just, like, could I love Joe Burrow anymore? I don't think it's possible.

I love aspects of his game that are not necessarily exciting or obvious in paper. Because, you know, he has the big play, the insane accuracy at every level. The numbers are bonkers. But a couple of things I just really love about his game are his ability to do the little things. To keep his team, to keep moving the chains, he's a cliche. Like he hits checkdowns. He checks down with his feet, which is what I use, you know, he runs in the right moments. his little subtle pocket movements are so advanced.

I struggle to find flaws that I think will translate at the next level. The only concerns you could have is when he's going to Cincinnati. He's playing behind. It's obviously a worse situation. Although I think the Bengals offensive lines can be better than people think when they get Williams back. They still got A.J. Green. A lot of it really just depends on what Zach Taylor does for him schematically.

But it's just an absolute no-brainer to me. I don't know. I have a lot of trouble making a countercase. Yeah. I mean, the way that you just described everything about his game, it kind of reminds me of like an elite pitching prospect. And of course, you're always going to be drawn to the guy who throws the heat, right? The guy who has the 98, 9900 mile per hour fastball. But at the end of the day, the more important thing is going to be whether you can change speeds effectively, whether you have the. full arsenal and understand the difference between pitching and throwing, whether you're poised and composed on the mound. And that's the kind of prospect burrow is. And it's not like he lacks physical ability. Again, if you just watch his tape the way he moves on the field, there's like a

really surprising fluidity and confidence. He can scoot. Totally. I just, I don't know, I have a really hard time imagining him being a bust. And I think, of course, you want the highest upside when you're talking about the number one overall pick, and I do still think Tua has the highest upside of any quarterback in this draft. But the thing you really, really, really need with the number one overall pick and a guy you're trying to build your franchise around and reboot your franchise around is you need the high floor. And I think Borough far in a way has the highest floor of any of these guys. Mel Kuiper threw out a very disturbing thing on our pod, which he said that he'd been hearing that the Bengals also like Herbert,

And not saying that they're going to take him, but that there was it, if there was ever a reason why they might trade down. And when he said it, I gasped so loudly, it crashed our stream. But can you imagine the state of Ohio and how they would react if that actually happened? No, I literally cannot imagine. I'm someone who spends the bulk of my time reading fantasy literature and pretending I'm a wizard and I'm incapable of conceiving what you just described. It's not possible to me. I don't understand what you mean. Malchiper Jr. says, no.

I got to like work on my hairspray game, I think. All right. Number two, let's lean into the fandom for a second here before we pan back out again. Let's talk about our respective teams. And if we could draft for our respective teams who just so happened to be back to back right now, Seahawks at 27, Ravens of 28, who would we take?

So you are in charge of Seattle's future. You're unmuting on Zoom at 20s. Who are you to take? Well, I've just gotten off the phone with Pete Carroll, and I said I loved your podcast on The Ringer. It's fantastic. What did I tell you in? It reminds me of like a Nancy Myers movie, him and Steve Carey, like the two silver foxes buying. So good.

Only instead of an age-appropriate woman, it's me. Anyways. So I was tempted to take Patrick Queen here to spite you. Wow. That's a declaration of war. I know, I know. And I like the Ravens. They're my AOC team.

We don't need him. I mean, let's be real. They're going to trade down. They're going to take a defensive tackle. No one's heard of. Seahs fans are going to be mad. Then they're going to take a running back with the extra pick. They picked up more of CX fans.

They'll be angry. The dream scenario for me is that one of the five tackles, there's, I think, five, maybe six, but I would say five offensive tackles were, I think, in the sort of top tier category. And if one of them were to drop down to Seattle and be the left tackle the future, right tackle, that'd be nice. The big need, as everyone knows, is edge.

Nobody really knows what's happening with the Judevian Clowny. Everson Griffin is still looming. They signed a couple, they signed Benson, Mayoia, Mayoa, Mojoa, and Bruce Irvin, but they clearly need edge. So if they were to draft for need there,

there's a couple of options. Yitor Grosados out of Penn State. He's very seahockey. He's like a crazy athlete, crazy long. He's got like 300 foot arms. He is raw. So I don't know if like the timeline quite makes sense. He can move him inside, which is if they don't have clowny, I could see him doing that Michael Bennett thing. So I kind of like him. I also like Jonathan Greenard out of Florida, but that would be a bit of a reach there. But if they traded down, that would be a guy. I would see them. taking. I love it. I love it. Trade down. Get out of there with your Patrick Queen talk and leave it to me and Eric Dacosta to plot Baltimore's future. So interesting draft for the Ravens. I, as you know,

when I chat about football with often, I refuse to acknowledge last postseason in any capacity, personally or professionally. I will just say that the Ravens have a championship quality roster. Nine picks in this draft. And so I would like to see them potentially move up in the first round to try to get Henry Ruggs. It's important to me that this happened. This is crazy. This is one of my dreams. This is one of my dreams.

So areas of need, you know, again, it is a pretty complete roster, but need offensive line help. this was true before Yonda's retirement and is certainly the case now. Need some more past catching talent around Lamar. You know, I love, I love Hollywood. I'm really excited to see what Boykin can do in his sophomore season, but got to get a couple other bodies in there. And

absolutely have to address inside linebacker. So if, you know, we're going to talk about C.Lam and Jerry Judy later. Assuming those guys go, somewhere in the like low top 10 top 12 top 15 round range and henry rugs is still sitting there as the third guy i would love love love to move up i it's important to me we'll get it to the rugs thing later but the you know the field melting speed is just that's what you want for the to me.

Yes. Do you don't feel like that's duplicative? Duplicative with Hollywood? No, with Hollywood. I don't. I know a lot of people think that, but to me, there's just really nothing more energizing than the prospect of continuing to fuel the speed on that offense and the ability to just go over the top.

And, you know, obviously, Marquis Brown had a couple injuries in this rookie season. But when he was out there, when he was healthy and when he could just go, take off fly, the offense was close to unstoppable. And the idea of doubling down on that capacity is just absolutely thrilling to me. Like my heart races when I talk about it. Now, this is an unbelievably loaded wide receiver class. And so given the need that the Ravens have at linebacker, I do rationally understand that it probably makes more sense to address receiver a little bit later and try to get either Patrick Queen out of LSU or Kenneth Murray out of Oklahoma. Now, both of those guys could be gone at 28 also.

You know, Patrick Queen, I think especially has like a lot of juice around him right now, a lot of buzz. And I don't think that there's really a world where you could just sit confidently at 28 and expect him to fall, right? That's not going to happen. So there might be a move up required either way. I guess if Ruggs is not on the table and you're sitting at 28 and there's a world in which Queen and or Murray is available, I would at that point prefer to address linebacker with one of those players than say Justin Jefferson, you know, at that point I'd rather go LB. I mean, I think that the team has spoken very openly about wanting to address run defense in particular.

I think that there's a chance that Murray, who's a little bit more established as a college player than Queen, fits that vision and feels a bit more Ravensy in that respect. But Queen is the more tantalizing prospect to me, you know, very versatile, three-down linebacker. And he just has, again, this incredible sideline to sideline to full field speed. You know, I was slacking with our buddy Danny Kelly earlier about a play where. Queen just despite, because you hear his lack of game experience come up often as a mark against him, but DK clipped a video for me of Queen picking off Tua, and he was like, this is kind of all you need to see. You know, the instincts that are required to make a play like that are just not common. And I think that that raw talent and the capacity to have that kind of ceiling at the center of that defense is pretty energizing to me. So I know that Robert Mays would want me to say, let's go O'Line, but I can't do it.

Oh, Mal. Mal, Mal, Mal, Mal, Mal. I would like to say with extreme overconfidence, what I want to say, which is there's absolutely no chance in hell. Henry Ruggs drops past the Denver Broncos, and you will have to give up. But the last time I made a prediction with extreme confidence with you on a podcast, well, it was on the Bill Simmons. show and we know how that turned out. So I won't do that. I won't do that. I like Queen for them. I do. And I think I like him at that spot if he's there because I really like him. I think he's got, you mentioned he has a lot of juice lately and I think that's true. And I think he's being a little

bit overhyped right now because of recency bias with the Natty and how ridiculous he was at the end of the season there. That maybe isn't commiserate with his performance in the rest of the season. But at 28, if he's there, 100%. I like that value. And obviously it's. indeed. I am married to a Bronco fan, so I can't decide if that would be like a decent consolation prize if I got to watch Henry Ruggs play for Denver or if it just would be absolutely maddening to me to get to see Adam experience joy. You know, real incited to marriage there for you, folks. And on that note, number three, which team, and this is just a rich and deep text of possibility, which team is most likely to have a tech malfunction on draft night.

The prospect of hacking tech malfunctions has been like one of the most dominant talking points in the last couple of weeks once it was confirmed that the draft would be virtual. This is freaking out a lot of teams. A lot of GMs think that they're worried or at least are putting out into the world that they're worried that there's going to be a real negative effect on their ability, not only to scout and assess the players, because of, obviously that entire process, pro days and team interviews has been disrupted, but that draft night itself could go horribly wrong. So who are you waiting on to fuck up spectacularly? You know, shouting into the mic with the pick, on mute, and then getting jumped, accidentally sharing their desktop when they're trying to change the background, whatever you might anticipate, who's on your radar? So the easy answer.

The obvious answer is one, Dave Gettleman. I mean, it's almost, it's too obvious. It's almost not fair. Like, you shouldn't be in the consideration set, but I'm with you. That picture, I don't know if, I think the Giants put out that photo of his workstation. Station is a generous term. It's like, he's got this gigantic binder. And then behind, there's a hand sanitizer and then a large container of lotion.

Again, just that somebody should have just gotten in there and said, let's take this out of the phone. And behind him, it's like almost taped to a wall. There's a photo of the New York skyline that somewhat, like, it was like at the last second somebody realized he's going to look like a psychopath if there's nothing in this room. Other than jugs of lotion? But I'm going to say not Gettleman. So I've thought about this a little bit.

And I realized, okay, okay, it's not about the question you're asking, who's most likely to screw this up. It's not about who is best with technology. It's about whose IT guys are afraid of him. Right? Oh, interesting. Yeah. So as you know, as a team who has a coach in John Harbaugh,

who's very open-minded and good at listening to people and delegating and like, you know, embracing analytics, that doesn't mean John Harbaugh is good at analytics. It means he listens, right? And I think the same thing applies to the IT. Like, who's the guy who walks into a room with food? in his mouth and no one tells him and the answer is Matt Patricia. Oh my God. Incredible, incredible stealth pick. Here's what I really like about this pick. It gets into a larger aspect of this discussion, which is, and I say this with full apologies to Kevin Clark, who tried to ask

me about this on Slow Newsday last week, and I, no exaggeration, flat out was not paying attention to what he was saying because my cat had jumped up onto my lap and I just was talking. to my cat for 10 minutes uninterrupted. And then he started knocking down my Game of Throne pop dolls behind me. And I just paid attention to that instead of Kevin. But the thing Kevin was trying to ask was about Bill Belichick and

who he and the Patriots might hack and disrupt freak out in some way. And the idea of Patricia running the long play here as a Belichick Patriots

mole. I love this theory. Somehow fucking up the third pick and sparking a true sign of the apocalypse. If you remember that old S-I feature level scenario where somehow the ripple effect results in the Patriots being able to trade up and get Tua, that is hell to me. Now that you've planted that idea in my head, do you watch Westworld? not been a great season. How long do we have?

Okay, we'll just end here. I think it's totally, completely viable that Matt Patricia is the teddy to Bill Belichick's Dolores. Okay. Are you going to tell me that every coach is actually Bill Belichick? Spoiler, spoiler, I guess.

I will say, while I respect your approach to this question and eliminating Gettleman, because he almost seemed too obvious. I do just feel compelled to note, as Roger Sherman tweeted the other day, that Gettlement, Roger tweeted a screenshot from a Giants Wire USA Today piece,

where Gettlement was talking about how part of the unease about entering the draft this year is that he can't, quote, smell or feel a guy? Incredible. I love him. Is it a bit? It has to be a bit at this point. right? I don't know, man. I just don't know. But if you can't smell the players, how are you going to be able to conduct your draft virtually? I'm just not sure. I think the other contenders, again, maybe too obvious, but the Browns feel like a team we have to at least throw out. They're the nerd team. It's true. And the GM is 32. If anyone knows how to use the internet, it's got to be him. This is less about tech savvy with the Browns and more about.

the inescapability of some sort of snake bit curse. Fate, yeah. Where you think, okay, if anything should favor the Browns, it's this setup. So how will it end up working against them in some capacity? Just can't help but think about that when it comes to the Browns. And then this is almost more like aspirational. I hope that the Raiders give us some sort of internet fodder. And it, you know, really has Gruden ever failed us in this respect.

Content machine. Yeah, I just, it's hard for me to envision a scenario where we have some sort of direct digital line to Gruden and Mayok and the entire Raiders operation and do not get some sort of new meme out of it. I mean, I think that Gruden is clearly the meme candidate of the night. Has to be. Although Mayok's been doing this for years, right? Because he's one of us. He was a media guy. You're right. There are dozens of us. from tech mishaps to cornerstones, foundations. You're going from internet defense warding off against the hackers to defense on the field, Mina. You have the ability at number four here, not number four in the actual draft,

but number four in our list of most intriguing questions, to select the defender that you want to build around. And this is not a Seahawks fan thing. This is not about any specific team. This is just the one guy who you look at and say, the things that you could do with this player could alter the course of your franchise. Who is that guy for you? I think we have the same player here. So the correct answer is Chase Young, but I don't want to talk about Chase Young because

like everyone else, like there's so little draft content right now about Chase Young and you know this. I mean, like you're an editor, like, because there's not much to say. It's just not interesting. His excellence is what it is. is and it's sort of, you know, preordained that he's going to go to. So I'm going to talk about a different player. And I'm going to actually stay in tech and continue on the sort of Westworldian theme. You know that? I just got to say, like you're talking about preordained. It definitely

sounds like you're about to tell me that Chase Young plays a role in the finale of devs. I'm not watching devs. I want to. Should I? Maybe you should be if you're interested in determinism. Yeah. Okay. So you know that those, it's one website where it generates an artificially intelligent, constructed face that's not a real face. It uses every face in the world to make a new face

and it's not a face that exists in reality. Okay. That face is Isaiah Simmons. I'm already annoyed with Chris Collinsworth for calling him a Swiss Army knife and it hasn't even happened yet. But you know

he's going to do it approximately 300 times. this season. My comp for him is like eight football players. Yes. Derwin James, Levanté David, Cam Chancellor, Thomas Davis. Like, it's just he is every player. Now, all of that said, I think there's a very realistic universe where he does not have a

good NFL career if he's with the wrong team. And that is my concern about him. Interesting. Okay. We have the same answer here. You know, I think that it would be a dereliction of duty to not say that Ohio State, but really both of Ohio State's top defensive prospects, Chase Young and Jeff Okuda are, you know, foundational players for any defense that drafts them.

But it's just hard not to pick Isaiah Simmons would be totally smitten by what you could do with him on a defense. You know, I like the way that you described him as this kind of mash up as all of these different players. because that's exactly what's so interesting about him as a prospect. He defies categorization. He is the embodiment of this new prototype for an NFL defender, the versatile positionless player who, you know, positionless used to be something that was like a bad buzzword in draft circles. And now it's thrilling for the right team and for the right coordinator,

which gets to the last point you made. You know, it is contingent on ending up in a system that knows how to use you, But like Danny Kelly and the ringer draft guide, which I would encourage everybody to check out the ringer draft guide if they haven't. But he described him as, you know, there's always a player cop there. And he he described him as a mega Derwin James because there is that Darwin Jamesian ability to say he can do everything, right? He can blitz. He can stop. He can defend the run. He can defend the pass. The freak nature of his athletic ability is almost. peerless in the draft class. And the fact that you could slot him into any position in the back seven is the kind of thing that I think just has to absolutely thrill the right kind of coordinator. You know, like, think about his arms.

He's like, I often do. Mr. Fantastic from the Fantastic Four with how long his arms are. But like if those arms and Mr. Fantastic's arms had. grapefruits and watermelons on them instead of like stretching out. You know, there's just, you look at him and you're like, this is not, there's, there's no way that this kind of athletic ability should be possible. I mean, he ran a 43940 at his size. That's like typo shit.

That's like, did all of us enter this wrong in our systems? You know, how is that possible? He does everything well. And if you put him with a defensive course. and a coaching staff that is open-minded and embraces that kind of experimental approach to defense, he's going to be an all pro for his entire fucking career. He played 121 snaps at inside, 160 at outside, 303 at corner, both slot and outside, and 218 at safety last season. You know the thing that Kyle Shanahan does on offense where,

George Kittle, use check, Debo, you never know what position they're playing on any play. Like they could be

a blocker, running back, running sweeps. That's what he can be for a defense. He can be the guy who is on the football field and the

quarterback's looking at him and he's like, oh, fuck, is he going to cover? Is he going to blitz me? Is he going to stop the run? And so it's, he would potentially give

a defensive coordinator the ability to dictate what the offense does and sort of flip what's been happening. you know, in the NFL on its head. That's a great point. He's like one man camouflage.

One of the only players who you could do enough things with that the fact that he's out there tells the offense nothing and can completely mask and inhibit their ability to understand what you're trying to do. You know, you made the Swiss Army joke. It's like the real thing he is is a skeleton key. He can unlock anything for you. I think he's just tremendous. He's definitely, for me, he's the player in the entire draft class that I just enjoy watching the most. most. He is just riveting. I think, again, just to be clear, this is a pro Chase Young podcast, and we both think he is outstanding. You know, he just quickly. I would take to Chase Young front.

Like, he, he basically broke the PFF grading scale. Like, he was just so off the charts at every respect. The PFF was like, we've just not seen a college player like this. It's kind of amazing to watch. And I think also when you get into, again, the intangible aspect of a prospect, I thought the way that he dealt with the utter horseshit of his NCAA suspension, which he should never have had to deal with and was complete nonsense, showed a level of maturation and poise that I think NFL teams really prize. So he's tremendous. And again, Akuta, you know, he's going to be an elite shutdown corner in the NFL. for years. I think one of the things, you know, if he goes to, if Matt Patricia and the lions are able to make a pick at number three, despite your, despite your omen, you know, if he goes, if he goes to the lions and you've got Chase Young going second, Nukuda going third, and of course, Burrow,

obviously played at LSU most recently, but was at Ohio State. I mean, the Buckeyes could, could credit and claim that they had the top three picks of the draft, which would be pretty amazing. Hey, it's Bill Simmons. I just wanted to make sure you were listening to podcasts on Spotify. Here's how you do it. First, search for your favorite podcasts on Spotify's app. They have a library of over 750,000 pods at this point. So let's say you're searching for the rewatchables or the Dave Chang show or the ring or NBA show. Once you find them, click on the follow button. That's how you subscribe. Then click on those letters near the top of the app that's a podcast. All the pods

you're following will pop up separated by episodes, downloads, and shows. Wait a it gets better. On Spotify, you can adjust the speed of the pods to seven different speeds. 0.5 times is the slowest. I actually sound drunk at 0.5. You can do 0.8 times, 1.2 times, which is my favorite. Everyone sounds like they just had a good cup of coffee. And then there's 1.5 times, 2 times. And if you're completely insane, three times. Anyway, Spotify's app connects directly to many of the best automobiles in the world. It even has a car play feature. That's pretty cool. Best of all, it's free. Downloads Spotify on any device and you're good to go. Should you be embarrassed that you're not listening to podcasts on Spotify? Well, I don't want to app shame you,

but the answer, unfortunately, is yes. Make the move. Listen to podcasts on Spotify. Back to yours. All right. Number five, we talked about Belichick a little bit. Which quarterback is Bill Belichick going to try to turn into his next franchise quarterback? And I guess the, the, you know, attended part of this question, the subhead to the head here is, do you actually believe that they are content to ride with Jared Stidham or Hoare and potentially not invest in a quarterback in this draft? I do. I think they are. If you had told me that a month ago, I would have been shocked. I'm still shocked. It's still crazy to me. I was the person who thought they should go for Cam or James and I was perplexed.

But everything I've read, everything I've heard from like the people who know about this stuff leads me to believe that they're content to ride with Stidim. I think it's completely plausible that they don't take a quarterback. But if they do, I have been thinking about Bill Belichick and what he wants, what he said he's want, the things he says about younger quarterbacks, we know he wants a guy who can move. I think he would go for the higher upside guy. And, well, have you seen Jordan Love? My comp for him, Mao, is Patrick Mahan?

Oh, my God. Because that's the sound I make watching him play football every time. I mean, it's just nonsense. Like, he does so many dumb things. But then every now and then, he's the only quarterback, not the only quarterback, but he, he makes throws where I just first. into uncontrollable giggle fits while watching him play.

They're just so stupid. As the kids say, Mina, it's not what you want. It's not what you want. I mean, I just, I don't know. Are there any other quarterbacks that you think make sense for him? So. After the first two, obviously. I have so many follow up questions to what you just said.

I also kind of think that they might be serious about riding with Sidham, who I should say, I like. You know, I enjoyed watching him at Baylor. I liked watching him at Auburn. I think he has legitimate ability. I wonder, like, do you think that there is a chance that they could still go for Cam or Winston if they don't land a quarterback who they like in the draft? Like, is that a wait and see possibility or is that just off the table for them?

Yeah, I do. What we've been hearing, and I'm not like a, you know, I'm not Adam Schefter. I'm not a darn Schefter. But apparently, the asks for those two quarterbacks is still too high for a lot of teams, which I don't understand how your ass can be high

when there's no buyers, but that's what everyone says. Dude, welcome to the L.A. real estate market, you know? How indeed. Yeah, if it, like, to me, Cam makes it sense. I don't know why they went. do it. But yes, I again, it's, didim is what we're hearing. It's crazy. So I'm, I'm, I'm,

I'm confused by the lack of movement on the camp front as well, truly. In terms of Jordan Love, I like to like go all in with the courage of my conviction, right? Whether or not I'm right or wrong is like, that's good. As they say at the end of the Irishman, it's what it is. You know, we'll see. Spoiler alert. Yeah, get back to me in 97 hours when you finish the Irishman. My take on the Irishman is actually that it was too short and should have been longer. Incredible. I haven't watched it, but I know everything I need to know now. It's great. That's great. The thing with Jordan Love and the Patriots specifically that just feels to me like an unbridgeable barrier is the turnovers. Like I just, I don't know, you know, 17 interceptions. That's a lot. lot. And like, look, plenty of of highly drafted quarterback prospects in recent years have been coming off high turnover seasons and teams were smart enough to not care about that. You know,

imagine not wanting to take Deshawn Watson because of his turnovers. That would have been patently absurd, you know, I can feel the Bears fans listening, just like recoiling into themselves. not saying that's why they didn't take them, but, you know, Biscuit. I just think that given that kind of like Jekyll and Hyde nature of Love's game, which I agree with you is like pretty scintillating to watch, but also at times actively confusing, it's just hard for me to imagine that as a fit with Belichick. I don't know, though I think you're definitely right that we know

that Belchek and McDaniels and the Patriots have a keen appreciation for how hard it is to stop a quarterback who allows you to do a lot of different things, who unlocks different variables for you on offense, right? And they covet that. And that brings me to my other option for him, which is something there has been smoke around Jaylon hurts? Yes.

So this is my guy too. Yes. Okay, let's talk about Jalen. I see this. I really do. For basically every reason. Great kid, great heart, great leader. yes, he needs to be in the right system, but I mean, you can say that about almost everyone.

And I think in the right system, he allows a creative team to try to do a lot of different things with him. And I think that that's something that Belichick and McDaniels are probably thirsting for, you know. I do not personally subscribe to the notion that Hertz is just a product of the Lilincoln Riley Oklahoma machine. I mean, certainly it's actually irrefutable that the uptick in his production after he left Alabama and went to Oklahoma is notable.

But I think that he possesses enough skills as a passer and as somebody who can opt in fully to whatever his coaches are asking him to do. You know, the things I worry about with Hertz are like, the ability to make a quick decision. The confidence. I think he has confidence as a player, but the confidence to always make the throw

when the read opens up. But I think that's also the kind of thing that good coaching can help you move beyond. Yeah, he's got a late trigger. I mean, I... For sure. He's not my favorite prospect. He seems like a delightful person.

He also, I remember someone told, me, he told them that he related to Nick Sabin. He thought they had the same personality, which is just such an insane thing for a young human being to say. Incredible. And I feel like him and Bill Belichick are like, you know, pies, like, there's something there. There's a mind-milled. Music to Belichick's ears. I wonder if Jalen Hertz also has an oatmeal cream pie for breakfast every day and wakes up and shouts, champions never sleep. Is he on the phone with a recruit right now? probably. I agree with everything you said. I just, I get guys who aren't accurate in college. That's just kind of a deal breaker for me. I think he got bailed out a lot by CD, which is probably a good

transition to question number six here. Yeah. I will say very quickly that the other guy who kind of intrigues me is from for the Patriots, just. Oh, no. Not because I think that he's worth drafting highly or reaching for in any respect. But I think if they're going to take a weight approach in the draft, somebody like Fram is going to make more sense than Isan in the Belichick universe. I think somebody who is like a control guy. You know what you mean a kid who is already, you're like, I already know what you're going to be like when you're 38. Yes. That's how I feel about Jake Fromm. Like he's already 57. That's just out there with the fish hook in his leg. and sounds so much meaner than I mean.

Anyways. It's the fish hook I love to bring up because I think that people often, you know, rightly and reasonably talk about Fromm as a cerebral quarterback, somebody who, you know, does not possess great arm strength, but reads the field well, sees the field well. And it's just really hard to not immediately say he cast a fish hook into his own leg. Troubling. Troubling. Okay. Stidum. I think you might be right. I do. Receivers. Who is your top receiver in this loaded wide receiver class? It is an unbelievably deep. It's one of those great receiver classes that is both top heavy and deep, that rare tantalizing combo. Who are you most excited about?

I have changed my mind literally every day. Some days I wake up and first thing I say when I get out of bed, I move. move Lenny off. He's lying on top of me. I said, get off of me. I need to get up. And I need to text Mal and tell her she was right about Henry Ruggs. That's what you say to Lenny every morning. I say today's a Jerry Judy day. Some days it's a CD Lamb day. It's never a Henry Ruggs day. But today's a CD Lamb day. I mean, yeah. Yeah. It's the Newk Hopkins comp feels lazy because every single human being has made it, but it's also accurate. And he has the same ding on him that Nuked. It's the only ding is that

he's not fast. I mean, he is fast. It's so stupid. I love it at the draft time we're like, he's not fast. He's faster than 99.99% of the population. He's not as fast as Jerry Judy. He's certainly not as fast as Henry Ruggs. But he has some of the most incredible hands I've seen on a wider receiver

in years, frankly. And he is incredible after the catch. He's a good, he's not super elite in terms of his speed, but he's a good Route Runner. Here's what you need to know about him. His name is Sedarian. It's Sedarian Lamb, which is almost his Game of Thrones sounding as Jalen Rager. And the reason his name is Cedie Lamb is because he was so good at football as a kid, the coach was like, yeah, we're going to need something shorter because people are going to want to get the ball to you quickly and say your name

quickly, which is just the most baller reason to have a nickname. Amazing. Amazing. I love it. I'm going Sedarian Lamb, number one. Jailen Rager as a throne's name is almost like a touch too painful for me because it it just makes me think so forcefully of the Sam Gilly Raga scene that Sam you know then took credit for Gilly making one of the greatest discovery in Westrocy history but hey that's for another podcast check out your leisure Patriarchy is real so yeah I mean my my answer is is lamb as well despite my personal obsession with Henry Ruggs. I think that everything you said is completely true. And, you know, he's a representative player, the difference between speed that you measure on a stopwatch and speed that you can

see on the field, you know, and how sometimes that difference is really more arbitrary than people like to admit, you know, you watch him play and you see what he's able to do. And it just doesn't matter what he clocked in at in the 40. It just doesn't. He is so exceptional at winning the battle for the ball, like period. And I, I don't know that there are too many more important traits in a receiver. Like, his ability to track the ball, he reminds me of like an elite, elite centerfielder. I can't believe I've mentioned baseball. Well, I can't believe it.

I've mentioned baseball multiple times. I'd like to apologize to all of our listeners. But he has that ability. Like, I watch him and I think, what would he grade out as a center fielder on statcast? And that is a pretty uncommon kind of thing. And then his body control and his footwork and his hands, it's just impeccable. And you brought up, you know, you brought up his production after the catch. I mean, he is an absolute yak monster.

Like his production is insane 19 yards per catch average. What the fuck is that? That's unbelievable. And it's no shade at all on Jerry Judy to not be picking him. I mean, I think that other than like a, slender frame and the occasional drop. He is basically a flawless receiving prospect and is particularly exemplary when it comes to route running.

I think the lamb is just slightly more captivating. You know, the Eagles aren't the only ones out there saying that he's the apple of their eye. I will, however, insist on speaking about and soliloquizing about Henry Ruggs for just a moment here. I was going to say we should do the Rugs thing here because I feel like I need to like go back, get my hose and spread you down now or something. And drop some cold water on you.

I like him a lot, but here's the thing. I love cold water. And I love Henry Ruggs. So bring it fucking on. Mina, let's go. I have a basically lifelong tradition as a college football fan of just becoming obsessed with one receiver every year. Like when I, this is really weird, but when I was in high school, I was never a USC fan. But the Mike Williams USC teams, like I was so obsessed with Mike Williams, who's on the Trojans, that I hand.

made like a number one jersey so that I could wear it to watch games alone at home. Very weird stuff. So Ruggs is just part of a long tradition in my life and in my heart. And that, that speed, oh my God, a 42740. I mean, he's the kind of, he's the kind of receiver that you need to develop new terminology for. Like we're always, oh, you know, he takes the top off a defense. It's like, I need something else.

He's invented a new type of electronic can opener that you can remove the top with your mind before you even hit the power button. Like, I need something like that. You know, and I will acknowledge, of course, that he does not have even close to the level of college production as Lam and Judy, who, of course, Judy is his, you know, that I'm a teammate. You're trying to aimile me now. You're throwing out the dings that I have prepared for you to undercut my. my battle wrap, because I was about to say, Jerry Judy has twice the number of both deep, deep, just deep, targets and receptions. That's fine.

I look at Henry Ruggs's 40 receptions, and I don't see a problem. I see infinite possibility for a team that's willing to throw to him more. I'll keep this, yeah. Touchdown machine, touchdown machine waiting to happen, Mina, this great nugget from Danny Kelly's draft guide. 24 of Ruggs's 98 Bama receptions ended up being touchdowns? That's amazing. That's really absurd.

I love him. I'll try to keep this short because unlike Henry Ruggs, we're not being very fast. We are the D.K. Metcalf three cone of pods at this moment. I'm shocked. Shout out to my boy. Who's not coming? I love him.

I love Rugs. He is not in the same tier as Judy and Lamb. And I think the production speaks for itself. obviously anyone who played in that Alabama receiver group, which is bat-shit crazy, by the way, benefited from playing with each other. I think he benefited from it more than anyone else. I think speed is great, but we have seen super fast guys come into the league. Most recently, the guy who ran faster than him, John Ross, and not necessarily. Now, I think Ruggs is a better route runner than John Ross. Shout to my Huskies. But I feel like part of the hype for him is the fact that

we were coming off the last two years in the NFL, particularly last year, and we see what the chiefs did. And we think, great, let's get the next Hill or Hardman for getting the fact that they have Patrick Mahomes. And that's why they're so meaningful and so impactful and field tilting. So I think with rugs, the wrong fit could be deadly. That's, that's it. That's all I got. I think we might be identifying the problem, which is I draft John Ross every year in fantasy football. This is going to be a zero. Boy. All right.

From the rookie receivers to the wider rookie skill position pool. Number seven, who's your early pick for fantasy football rookie MVP? I'm going to go with a running back here. Yeah. That's good. That's a safe choice. Safe, right? And I've been risky with some of my other answers.

I need to rein in a bit. And risk gay. Well, always. I'm going to go with Jonathan Taylor, Wisconsin running back. I think that, again, with fantasy football when I'm projecting this far ahead, I want someone who I know is going to see a certain level of volume. And I just have a hard time imagining a team taking Taylor late in the first round or early in the second if they don't intend to fully incorporate him into their offense.

I'm thinking about a team like the dolphins who have so many early picks, you know, three first-round picks, two second-round picks, have the ammo to really amass exciting young skill position talent. His college production is fucking incredible. Like, to the point where I do think that one of the knocks against him will be, is there too much mileage on the legs already? But I'm not talking about a 15-year fantasy dynasty strategy. here. I'm talking about, you know, next season. Should we all be lucky enough to experience next

football season? And he's got that unbelievable burst and quickness for someone his size, just unbelievable. I worry a bit about the fumbles, certainly. But I think that of all of the, I was always going to pick a running back for this answer. And I think of all of the rookie running backs, he strikes me as the one who's best equipped to just make an impact from day one. And that's what I want when I'm thinking about my fantasy strategy. Who are you going with? I think that's a good choice. I will say it's a bit of a cop-out in some ways,

but it's so dependent on what team drafts. Of course. Of course. And I'm lucky enough to be in a dynasty league where we redraft later. It is a league that I won last year beating Danny Kelly and all of his high school friends. Yeah. With some shenanigans about when trades.

From Danny Kelly. Don't get me started. but so I do have my eye on all these running backs and like basically I'm like whoever Tampa Bay picks is the running back I want quite frankly. I really like DeAndre Swift who has shades of Dalvin Cook if he ends up in a outside zone offense

right? If he doesn't I do not like him so I'll go swift but I reserve the right to dial that back immediately if he's with the wrong team. I love DeAndre Swift I think also as people who really carry a lot of affection for Amanda Dobbins, we would be remiss if we didn't mention

J.K. Dobbins, who has just alighted her interest in the NFL in a way that I didn't think was possible. I'm trying to convince me to buy a jersey. Oh, just incredible fantasy team like LOLJK. Although Jonathan Taylor, my dream is to draft both him and Michael Thomas and then be

Jonathan Taylor Thomas. Holy shit. You just really took me back to my tiger beach. Then my tiger beat days. Were you at Thomas? JTT or Sawa? Oh, I mean Sawa. Always. Little giants?

This is why we're friends. This is easy. Shout out to 99% of the listeners who are like, what the fuck just happened? Rolling on. Great stuff. All right. Which mid-round pick? Never a shortage of candidates for this honor.

will be the guy who, for the rest of his career, we're saying, how is this guy a mid-round pick? I've got two. Let's hear him. Okay. First, Zach Moss running back out of Utah. Cousin, I believe, of Santana Moss. Feels like a safe bet.

I feel like I read that somewhere, and I'm going to roll with it. Danny Kelly, who's been mentioned many times this podcast and I were texting. He's obsessed with Zach Moss. So my comfort, and I think he is obsessed for him for the same reason that I am, which is that he reminds us both of Marshawn Lynch, insofar as he runs like an angry centipede. I thought you were going to bring up Westworld again. He's actually been pretty good at Westworld. Shout out to Marchand.

Anyone who breaks as many tackles as he does, I think, will succeed at the next level. I don't think, I don't know if he's guaranteed to succeed in the long term. He's not the fastest guy. I think, though, to go back to the fantasy question, he's an incredible goal line weapon, and I think he could get a ton of production there and points. I just really like him. The other name I have for you is the sexier, weirder name. Okay.

My current obsession. My comp for him is, what if Gardner Minshu took more substances? It is Anthony Gordon out of Washington State. Maybe my favorite quarterback in the draft. Not the best. Not at all. Oh, my God. He's, what is he being mocked?

Like, fifth. I love him. He is crazy. The way he plays is so hilarious to me. So how much of this is Minchumania, the Mississippi mustache effect, and how much of this is purely about?

You know how you know it's real? So I'm a Washington Huskies fan. He sucked against Washington, right? So I tend to be biased against guys who were good against Washington. I think it's why I like a lot of the Utah guys in this draft, like Jalen Jocelyn.

He was not good. And yet I see. still think he's great. He's a baseball guy, Mallory, so he throws it hilariously and like kind of whips it around. He is the most yolo quarterback in the class. He does crazy stuff all the time. He doesn't have an incredibly strong arm because he's got a lot of, he's got what they call a live arm. I just adore him. So that those are my two picks. Okay. Incredibly bizarre Apple Cup centric answer, but I respect it and I respect you. My pick is... 12 after dark, baby.

We'll be shifting to Maction before everyone knows it. Then we can call Roger Sherman. My pick is Lynn Bowden, Jr. Kentucky's all everything extraordinary. Receiver, running back, quarterback, return specialist, like really bar none the most unique prospect in the draft. And I think, again, I think you'll notice a theme in a lot of my answers, which is I'm drawn to these players who present possibility, you know, who can allow a creative,

inventive mind to try new things and innovate. And I think if he ends up with an O.C. and a coaching staff that views all of his ability as what it is, which is the exciting prospect to try new things and not be boxed in by one skill set, as opposed to like some sort of tisk, tisk, you're not a traditional X, Y, or Z, then he could do really remarkable things. You know, he went from being the team's number one or Shaver to its starting quarterback in one year.

And obviously, I don't think, I'm not saying that I think an NFL team is going to use him that way. I don't think he's going to be a starting quarterback in the NFL. The, the comp right now that's kind of hard to escape when you're researching him, watching his tape, reading up on him. Everyone was talking about Taysom Hill. Yes. And I think my favorite thing about it is that his response to that is like, I'm just a much better athlete. I fucking love that. It's so good. It's so good. And I think like that, you know, he didn't participate in

combine drills. So, you know, draft season. Everybody's looking for the times and the measurable and obviously part of the quarantine ripple effect around draft season is that, you know, the pro day circuit and workouts all played out very differently. I think that that has, even though he has clearly emerged in recent days and weeks as this very intriguing, hyped mid-round guy, I think that the lack of participation in that respect probably delayed him emerging in a more forceful way on some of these draft boards and draft discussions and the kind of the internet's radar, maybe if not the actual team radar. I mean, his ability as a runner and an athlete, you know, the division that he has, the ability

to read the field because of every different position that he's occupied is pretty unique and I think pretty exciting. And, you know, draft him as a receiver, use him as a return specialist, put him out there for some read option, pass run potentiality. shenanigans. And get fucking funky with it. I just want all shenanigans all the time. And one of the questions you guys suggested that we didn't end up doing was who's the player that will make college football fans excited to watch the NFL? And yes.

He was the guy who actually came to mind for me for that. You pretty much said it all. To me, it would just all, it all comes down to where does you land, right? I mean, can you imagine what a Kyle Shanahan would do with him, for example? Just incredibly, incredibly exciting to think about. It is interesting, right? Like, Taysam Hill is Taysam Hill, but there's just not, that has it taken, like, other coaches do not want to use a roster spot that way. So I don't know.

There's no like trend there with Taysom Hill, you know, the idea of having this sort of multi-purpose players. So I don't know if some coach will see fit to use him a lot, but I sure hope so because he's extremely exciting and fun. Yeah, I think that there's a chance. that weirdly, even though the Taysom Hill thing has been such an inescapable part of the New Orleans Saints and general NFL experience recently, I think that there's a chance that that comp actually hurts Boden more than it helps him because of what you just described, that question of, well, how many teams are really going to be in a position to think about devoting a roster spot to something to someone like that. But I think, again, you could try to develop him as a slot receiver. You know, there is a more traditional route to take with him as a prospect. and then you still keep open all of the possibilities of plugging and playing in different respects. I'm really, really, really hoping that he lands in a situation where that coaching staff is going to want to get weird and try new things. I think it could be really, really cool. Speaking of coaches making decisions, though, that gets us to number nine.

Head Scratchers. What do you think the biggest draft weekend? head scratcher is going to be. This could be something from round one. It could be something from any point over Thursday, Friday, Saturday. And I think despite opening it up to the entire draft, we probably have the same thing here, which is, to me, just the prospect, the suggestion whispering in any corner of the universe that Justin Herbert should be drafted over Tua. Yeah, the only other one I think is, I think, he's in.

Jacob Ezen out of Washington is going to go a lot earlier than he should, but I don't want to talk about that. Can I embarrass myself further and tell you that I'm kind of indecent as a prospect? Look, if he goes into the second round, sure. This is my thing. This is my thing with him. That's exactly it. At a certain point. Right.

It's all about value. At a certain point, just give it a go and see what happens because he has a fucking cannon for an arm. Obviously, his decision making is confounding at times. and when you lose a job to Jake Fromm, someone we spent 12 minutes making fun of earlier in this podcast, that's going to follow you around for a little bit of time. But, you know, again, this is, I think, where I have a little bit of a,

my brain operates on delay with like shaking the five-star prospect aspect of this and thinking about all of the balance possibility I always saw for Eason's future and not really being able to give up on that yet, even though he is exactly the kind of pro prospect that I usually get like, furious about NFL fans liking over the guys who I just sit there and say, like, I watched this guy playing college for three years. And I just don't know how you could think that. Ison is that guy. And yet, I don't know. He, I just have not seen evidence that he can, he knows how to play quarterback. I think he has all the tools. I mean, you know, the, in Washington, like, the Huskies

have a lot of, use a lot of RPO's and he can execute that offense. But I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm not convinced he can execute an NFL offense. And actually, that brings us back to Herbert because yeah, his his dings are all pretty much mental. That said, the defense of him, first of all, if a team knows something about two of them medically, and that's the reason, whatever, what can we say? You know what I mean? Like, you and I can't, we don't know anything about, I assume you're not a doctor or not. I am not. I do study at the math. I am not. I do study at the math. Adam Pompfrey School of Pepper Up Potion. Is that a Harry Potter thing?

It is. Yeah, great work, bud. I got, I did, I took that character quiz online and my, did you take that the psychometrics thing that was going around for a while? No. You said okay with such dismay when I confirmed it was a Harry Potter thing. I'm sure you didn't, wait, you didn't take this, this, uh, character test. It was like, it went viral, basically. I saw it.

I did not participate. it. I'm surprised that you didn't take. Well, so, because my results, I was actually pretty thrilled, if I'm being honest, because I got Lisa Simpson for my number one, which is amazing. But then there was a Harry Potter character I hadn't heard of who landed. I only know, like, the, you know, main characters, I suppose. It's Phileas Flitwick. Oh, my God. Really? I don't want to do it. The Charms Professor? That's incredible. You're a Charms Professor? I hope. Oh, my God. He's probably like a nerd, right? It's like a nerd thing. They give me the nerd. But you put in a great way. I think I also got Hermione pretty high as well below that. But I mean, now you're just bragging. Now you're just bragging. Actually, Justin Herbert has a lot of Hermione qualities, right? He's supposed to be this big nerd. And it makes me feel bad about ragging on him. Because like, the scoutdings are like, he's not a leader. He'd rather read books. And I'm like, oh. But I, you know what, yeah. I can't stand that shit.

Like I still am pissed off about all of the NFL teams that held it against Josh Rosen that he had a brain and cared about issues. Did you see the today's anonymous scout report was that Mackay Beckton likes to cook? And I was like, so he's my dream man? You're dinging an offensive lineman for liking to cook. Okay, but back to Herbert and Tua and all that. So I think the defense of Herbert is that Oregon offense, not only were the skill player bad. Like those players

and the receivers burrow and Tua with do not even exist on the same planet. Also, the offense was bad. He was not, I don't think he was put in positions to succeed. Well, and he had to adjust to multiple different coaching staffs. That is the other thing

over the course of his Oregon career, which is not an easy thing. But the dude just doesn't have poise. Like when I watch, he just panics a lot. Now, maybe that's something he can change. I don't know. But to compare that to Tua, who's like this unbelievably poised sophisticated processor is just wild to me. Yeah, I just don't understand this one.

Again, what you said is, what you said is right. If a team is concerned about two as hip and about two as medical history in general, I get that. And if he's not on somebody's board or they think, okay, well, there's just a point at which it's too risky and that point is point X, that's fine. But if he's on your board and you think that he's somebody you would draft in the top 10, but you decide to take Herbert instead, I actually just don't get that at all. I mean, Tua had one of the best careers in college football history.

That is not hyperbole. That is a fact. And when he was healthy, watching him was like watching magic unfold in real time in front of you. It really was. And I as a Tua fan and a college football fan really, really, really hope that he heals fully and he's able to play and have a rich and successful NFL career. Well, along those lines, Mal, you know, the crazy thing is if Herbert does get bumped up and he goes to the Dolphin, this is Mel Kuiper, not Mel Kuiper, his current board, you've got two to the Chargers. That's actually a better spot. So maybe this is good for him.

That's true. I mean, it could end up with Tua in a better. situation overall. I just think it's a borderline and defensible choice to make. And again, like, I also I don't want to rag on Herbert. I think there are a lot of things about his game that are really strong.

You know, he obviously has an incredible arm. He's very tall. Not sure if you've heard. Too tall. You know, he's like the classic NFL measurables guy. And despite what I said about not being willing to give up on Jacob Easton quite yet, I, again, I

typically get very annoyed when the tall check big arm check guys shoot beyond the clearly superior players and I don't know there's something about Herbert that has just never quite unlocked for me when I watch him like he he I thought it was very interesting that he chose to go back for a senior year and he

actually did improve in a lot of in a lot of ways but there's just this is like a really weird thing to say about a potential top five draft pick there is a lack of a wow factor when you watch him, then I kind of can't shake. You know, he needs better touch on his passes. He needs to work on his anticipation. He needs to learn to trust his instinct. He needs more umph on his plays. And so I totally get if that's a, if the, the physical tools are so tantalizing that you want to opt in around 10 or in the early teens, but over Tua, who has a chance, if he's healthy, my, my, uh, I'm in a, uh, Bill's league of dorks.

fantasy baseball team, which league, which is an AL-only keeper league. Weird, weird thing that I've chosen to spend my time on in my life. And my co-manager is Jeff Chow, president of the ringer, great dude, Eagles fam. And he makes fun of me all the time, whether it's fantasy football drafts or baseball drafts, because my, it's like a, I can't, I can't get through a draft without saying 47 times. Well, if he's healthy, it's like an obsession of mine. So I recognize that that is not necessarily a sound way to project into the future. But, But I don't know. I think at a certain point with the way that this quarterback class,

this is one other thing that's worth mentioning. You know, you brought up Cam and James and the prospect outside of the draft of acquiring a quarterback in another way. I think also you have to think about next year's draft. You know, there are potentially generational quarterback prospects in that draft with Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields. So if you're not digging one of these quarterbacks, you know, Maybe Jordan Love is a perfect raider.

Maybe. It's definitely possible. But if I'm a team that's considering trading up to try to get Justin Herbert, I hope I'm also spending at least a minute thinking about what it would be like to try to get Trevor Lawrence next year instead. That's all. Don't reach. Don't reach. You know what I mean? I agree.

I mean, I think Lawrence and I arguably feel it's just after the first two, again, for me, bro, and two are better prospects. Yes. Undoubtedly. Don't reach with your super long arms on your six, seven frame. Don't reach to get to the six foot. It's so weird too because he's like this nerd we hear, but he looks, he doesn't look like. Yeah, I don't know. Name me a six foot six quarterback who's been consistently good for a long time over.

I don't know. Maybe Brock Osweiler wants to call in. No? No. Too soon to mention Brock Osweiler? No. Oh, Brock. Good old Brock.

Okay. Let's bring this home with the most important question of the night. Let's talk about fashion. You know, this is one of the things that is really going to feel different about this draft experience. Obviously, the draft was supposed to be in Vegas. There was a lot of talk about water features, Mina. Fountains. Boats.

A canoe. What could have been? What could have been? And, of course, draft fashion, always an important part of the. the draft experience. So who is going to bring some sort of notable fashion to the virtual experience? Because a lot of the players are still participating in the draft digitally, remotely. Is there somebody, whether it's a player, a coach, a GM, a media member, anybody who is on your radar as the person who is most likely to wow us with a new pair of

kicks, some sort of hype beast worthy choice on draft night? It's funny that. It's funny that you ask this because on today's episode of ESPN Daily, the daily show I do, we had Sabrina Yunescu and the WMBA draft is Friday and I was like, so, what are you going to wear? She was like, uh, pants. I was like, wow, no NFL prospect. Like, they are so pumped, uh, to show up their looks. I mean, listen, to be fair, in the social distancing quarantine era, putting on pants is like, it's what I said. You're making a huge effort at that point. Totally. So I can't remember. remember the last time I put on pants. Have you done it?

Have you done a Zoom where you're like, oh, I'll get up and get that. And then you'll realize, oh, wait. I can't. Yeah, like 16 times per day. So I'm actually going to continue with the guy we were just talking about. And I think Tua, Tungavala, has incredible. So did you see what he wore to the Heisman? Oh, yeah.

So the Burgundy suit, yes, Bama. But then this resplendent lay, just resplendent, right? And so I think he's going to bring the Aloha style that this draft so desperately needs to Zoom. I love it. I love it. I'm going to go with Ohio State Corner Jeff Okuda. Here's why. This is less about any specific footwear or outfit, any particular fit king moment that Okuda has delivered in the past that I'm aware of.

And this is more about his absolutely mesmerizing charisma and confidence in general, which leads me to expect big things. So this is hopeful. You know, his alter ego, Hefe, free Hefe, I just wonder, like, is Jeff going to be there with us on Drav Night or is Hefe? And what choice might Hefe make? I can't wait to find out. You know, he's been doing so many interviews lately. And I just find him so compelling in all of them, you know, campaigning to have Ohio State known as BIA best in America instead of DBA or cornerback you or something like that. He's just out there thinking about the branding all the time. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. That was like his idea, BIA. He's out there every day saying BIA. Get out of here. It's not that catchy. It's not that catchy FAA. Listen, he's thinking, he's thinking about the acrony as he's thinking about the branding and that's what matters. He also,

ESPN had the, I think it was on the 14th, the draft special. And I, he came on for an interview and I just was so amused when he asked Mel Kuiper, just called him out. It was like, why isn't,

why isn't Damon Arnett, his Ohio State teammate, higher on your mocks? Why aren't you rating him more highly as a prospect? I just, I love his energy. And I'm hoping for big things. I thought you were going to talk about,

Roger Goodell, king of casual wear. I just feel like this could be a real moment for Udell, you know. He wears those quarter fleeces all the time. But like, let's see him step it up a little bit with like a shawl collar sweater. Also, Roger, if you're listening, have your children boo you. It will endear so many people to you. But of course, he won't. I feel confident that NFL fans,

nation and worldwide will find a way to tap into that experience in their respective homes. Probably, yes. Especially, yeah. Especially us if we don't get our guys. I know. Mina, this was a true delight.

Now, you are my BIA. You're my hefe. Thanks for joining us. I wish you and the Seahawks in general, nothing but luck. Though I do hope that the Seahawks make some sort of colossal mistake at 27 and that it benefits the rate of 28

just to be clear. I look forward to listening and watching and reading all of your exemplary work over the coming days and weeks. I look forward to telling you I was right about Henry Ruggs every day for the next 18 years and keep the Lenny pictures coming.

I will. Thanks so much, bud. All right, everyone, thanks for listening. That was a lot of fun. Thank you to Mina, who is an absolute delight. The NFL show feed will be back for you loaded programming slate next week, Monday through Thursday, including a reaction pod on Thursday night after round one of the draft. See you next week.