The Ringer NFL Show - Marshawn Lynch's Future and Defensive Back Prospects With Dane Brugler (Ep. 97)

Episode Date: April 17, 2017

The Ringer's Robert Mays and Danny Kelly discuss the Marshawn Lynch saga and what it means to Seahawks fans (02:00). Then Dane Brugler of CBS Sports joins the show to discuss top safety prospects Jamal Adams and Malik Hooker (15:00), where Jabrill Peppers fits in the NFL (25:00), and some of the highest-rated cornerbacks entering the draft (36:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The NBA playoffs are here, and we have you covered with the Ringer NBA show posted by Chris Vernon. Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays all through the postseason, you can hear the Ringer's NBA experts, media members, coaches, and players breaking down all the action. Make sure to subscribe to the Ringer NBA show on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. My name is Robert Mays. I'm a writer at the Ringer. Joining me on the other line, it's Danny Kelly.

Danny, how are you? I'm doing great, man. We're getting close to the draft here, which is a great. exciting and the weather's getting better. Can't complain. I love it. And thank you for mentioning that. We are going to have on Dane Brueger from CBS Sports a little bit later to talk about the safeties and a couple of the cornerbacks from this draft.

But before we did that, I wanted to talk to Danny about Beast Mode because this happened, Danny. It was a joke for like three months. Like, oh man, what if Marshall Lynch just came back to play in Oakland? And now we're here. He has reportedly agreed the terms with the Oakland Raiders. Obviously, because Seattle's has his rights that a trade has to happen.

But it does feel like this is on the doorstep, man. This is about to be a very real thing. First of all, just walk me through your emotions. It seems like a very weird time for you and the players that you've loved for a little while. I know. Seriously, it's like first there's the Sherman business, now there's Lynch. Yep. I mean, yeah, when we've gone through some stuff as Seahawk fans with Lynch,

it was always kind of a funny roller coaster of emotions. I mean, obviously he's a really, really good player, was kind of a, you know, hero for a lot of fans. And then the ending when he kind of, the last couple, like the last year of his tenure in Seattle was a little bit weird. You know, obviously he battled injuries. There was the thought that he was going to come back. And then at the last second he didn't get on the plane to Minnesota for the playoff game.

It was just a lot of weird stuff that kind of, you know, they, he didn't really get along with the front office. I mean, clearly. And so there was, it was just kind of. a complicated situation, but I think, you know, just as a player, people really, really appreciate his style as a player. He's really physical, fun. You know, he's a funny guy. He's kind of just a crazy guy. You know, you never really know what to expect from him. So when he retired, I kind of thought, like, well, there's a pretty good chance. You know,

this isn't necessarily the end for it for him just because, you know, he's just so unpredictable. So, you know, this is, you know, you got time to kind of deal with the fact that he wasn't going to be in Seattle anymore. There's an entire season. It's not, that. part of it is coming gone. As a football fit, I find this fascinating for a few different reasons. You know, you and I shot some texts back and forth. I called you actually, after this happened, just to chat it out because I thought it was interesting. He was so good in Seattle. I feel like he was probably the second best running back in the league over the course of his time there after Peterson. And I still think he's got a lot in the tank, but this is a different proposition in a couple

different ways, right? In Seattle, he broke a ton of tackles. He led the league in that area pretty much every single season, but he's running with Wilson as a threat, a lot of shotgun, a lot of reed plays that make it easier for running backs to function. So you have that climate that's now gone and you replace it with what is probably the second best offensive line in the league. So for all the drop-off that's going to happen because the numbers are different, the box is different, you're probably making up for it with the talent of the line. The question, now becomes, has he dropped up off enough as a running back and an athlete to where those things can be negligible? Just from a football perspective, you know, what are you trying to sift

through at this point? Yeah, I mean, there's a couple of questions. I think you touched on all of them. I think first of all, when Lynch got to Seattle from Buffalo, it took him probably like half a season or more to kind of really acclimate himself to the Seattle system. I'm with Tom Cable, you know, it was a zone-based system where, cable's explained it a couple of times where basically he's asking you to do what he's he wants you to do from point A to B and then once you get to B what you do from you know point B to C to D to E is totally up to you but but it's very a discipline based system and it took Lynch a while to get kind of you know acclimated to that so there was that and then like we talked about lynch was really prolific in that read option offense with with Russell Wilson you know he he I think his bow-legged stocked where he's very, very agile, you know, in the short area, it really kind of just worked for him. I think that was a great fit for him.

And so when, you know, you're making one guy miss in front of you and then making a cut downhill, that's kind of his game. And that was really what they did well with the read option thing. And so, yeah, I mean, you have to wonder, like, how different it's going to be when he gets to open, how quickly can he acclimate, you know, how well does he fit in a scheme that's not doing read option very, often. I think, you know, he's so good and he's so talented that I'm not really worried about him,

you know, being a bad player, but I don't think, I think you have to kind of temper your expectations that he's going to be like this. I mean, I don't know if anyone expects this, but you can't really expect that he's going to be the guy he was in Seattle during the heyday, you know, during 2012, 2013, 2014 when he was, you know, just running all over the league. So I think you have to temper your expectations quite a bit. But I mean, overall, like, I think I was looking at PFF, he has 66 more broken tackles than anyone over the last four seasons, and he's only played seven games

in the last two seasons. Yeah, I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous. And that's always the thing that I found interesting about him is that he was able to succeed independent of situation for the most part, right? The Wilson threat and that version of the offense helped him. But it's not as if he ever played with an above average

offensive line in Seattle. Now, 2012 was the best season that he had, 5.40 yards of carry 1,590 yards. That from left to right was Russell O'Cung, some combination of John Moffitt and whoever else played left guard, Max Unger, Paul McQuiston, and Brenda Jocamini. Right. That's a better offensive line than Seattle has now,

but I don't understand. That's all that it really is. You know, O'Cun played 15 games that year. That was probably his better season. Unger was very good. But that's not the Cowboys, and it's certainly not this year's Raiders. So he's walking into a situation that's just,

very different in terms of the blocking and the talent around him from the running game perspective. And I think that's why even if you're not expecting him to be a 1,500-yard guy, he can still be very effective. Oh, absolutely. I mean, yeah, I think that, I mean, you were being kind of, you're being kind to the Seahawks lines there. Like, they've been terrible for years. So, I mean, he did make a lot out of, you know, basically nothing.

And that's kind of been the Seahawks, MO is like. they're just not going to invest in the offensive line in terms of money. So, yeah, he made, and this is kind of funny, and this sort of feels like not really a compliment, but like one of the biggest things that Lynch did for the years in Seattle was he made a lot of plays that should have been like five-yard losses into two-yard gains. And that was huge for Seattle because it keeps him on track, you know, keeps them on schedule.

And, yeah, he just makes a lot out of nothing. So it's going to be really interesting to see what he does, when he actually has like good blocking in front of him like he could he could potentially i mean i'm just not big on latavius murray i didn't think he was you know a very um dynamic back and i think that's probably why they didn't really you know try too hard to keep him in terms of the raiders and i think lynch is so dynamic and he's such a creator that you know he could really make that offensive line you we could change our perception on that offensive line right now you know you kind of look at them like a really solid pass blocking group but we talked

about it, you know, when you called me, it's, he has potential to make people kind of change their mind on this, on this offense line in terms of run blockers. Like, they could be, I think Lynch could bring that, that nastiness to the, to the line. And, you know, Seahawks offensive line and talked about this all the time, but like, they want to block for Lynch. Like, when he goes out there and breaks tackles, it makes them want to, like, go hit guys. And so he could kind of change, you know, the personality of that offensive line a little bit. When you look at them versus Dallas, I think the biggest gap between those two groups is probably the mentality that starts with the center. Rodney Hudson is a cerebral past protection, knowing where all the pieces fit kind of centerpiece, no pun intended, of that offensive line.

Frederick is just a out of this world predate naturally talented run blocker. His ability to reach guys a gap over and start those zone plays is there's nobody like him. So that kind of difference in the styles of where the line, the pivot point is, will always help there be kind of just a gap between what Dallas is and what Oakland is. But if you look at the other guys, Ossemalet is a monster, like just straight up a monster. And Donald Penn is a really physical left tackle when you compare them to the other players at that position. Gabe Jackson, I think, was helped along from a physicality standpoint when Oscemole got there. So I think you have pieces of a group that can be a physical,

dominating offensive line, there's just never been that final piece to unlock it. And I think that Marshaun Lynch can eventually be that. And if you add that element and him being able to rip off a six-yard gain that should be a two-yard gain, that's where this Oakland offense gets really dangerous in my mind. Because even though they were exciting last year, we'd like talking about them, Carr's Ascension has been fun. They finished 15th in rushing DVOA. They were the only top 10 offense outside of New England that finished in the top.

top 10 in overall offensive DVOA and outside the top 10 in rushing. So they do have there are a little, there's ways to go for them to get to be exactly where they want to be. And I think this is how you get there. Yeah, definitely. And I mean, I think like he's been such a tough player. I mean, obviously the last season he was in Seattle, he had some back issues. And then he missed, I think he missed all but seven games or whatever until the playoffs. And so there's kind of this impression that like he's frathing.

or whatever right now that his back could be a problem. But he was such an incredibly durable player for Seattle for so long before that that it doesn't worry me quite as much as maybe I think a lot of people are worried about it in terms of his physical drop-off. I just think he's a very rare human being in terms of just his toughness and physicality. You know, peer speed isn't really his game anyway. He's just, I mean, when he runs, he's like made out of cement. Like, guys just bounce off of him.

and he's so good at, you know, deflecting or, you know, making little jukees at the last second to deflect any contact. And he doesn't ever take huge hits. So in terms of his age, I'm not quite as worried about it as I think a lot of people are. I think he's still going to be, you know, a top-tier runner. He's so smart cerebral. You know, he's really, really good at picking the right lane to go through. And so, I don't know, I'm definitely optimistic if he gets in there and, you know, if it all goes down, I think it's going to go down at this point.

It seems like it will that I think he could be a pretty successful running back this year, even though he's 31 and kind of coming off, you know, an injury short in season. And what they give him as a contract is going to be interesting. I don't think it's going to be a top tier running back contract. That would just be silly. He's been out of the league for a year and a half. If you're doing it for a reasonable amount of money and you're covered in that area, then there's really no downside to this.

He's going to give you an element you never had. And when you combine that with Amari Cooper, Michael Crabtree, two really good complimentary backs and probably the second best offensive line in the league, we're looking at what has most likely become the best supporting cast for any quarterback in football.

For real. Yeah. I mean, there's just weapons everywhere. And I mean, yeah, I agree with you. There's no downside to this.

To me, it's a win-win for everybody. I mean, the Seahawks, I don't think they care. I mean, my guess is at the end of the day, it'll probably be like

they'll swap seventh rounders or something like that to send him down. Like, they're not going to, there's not going to be a problem getting the trade done. And for Oakland, it's a no-lose situation too. I mean, worst-case scenario, he just can't stay healthy.

But other than that, I think he's going to be an effective back. He's a kind of guy who comes in and makes the team, you know, they kind of take on his toughness, I think. And that's what happened with the Seahawks for so many years. It's like there's an element of toughness that he brings. And so, yeah, I'm with you. I think it's kind of a no-lose situation for all, you know, for everyone involved. And there's not going to be a huge amount of,

I don't think there's going to be a huge amount of guaranteed money or anything like that. So yeah, I mean, from just a physicality, identity, culture kind of point of view, I think it'll be really fun to watch the Raiders kind of take on that lynch mentality. This is also like if I know it's not going to make up for the fact that they're going to lose their team in two years. But for the Raiders fans, this is pretty much the best PR move they possibly could have made. Like, oh yeah, sorry for stealing your team, but we're going to give you. Marshaun Lynch for a year is that does that help a little bit? Yeah.

For real. I mean, he's like, he's a, he's an Oakland icon. He's a legend down there. Exactly. You know, universally beloved by Oakland fans, I have to say. And so, you know, it's, yeah, like you said, it kind of takes some of the heat off of Oakland for, for moving to Las Vegas. And it's kind of one last hurrah in Oakland, I think, you know, and for Lynch, too,

like it helps him potentially get those stats he needs to get to the Hall of Fame. you know, if that's what he's missing right now, you know, gives him a few more reps, at least trying to get these yards up and touchdowns up and all that to kind of make a better run at the Hall of Fame. I've always thought this, and this is a conversation for way later,

but counting stats and how much those should play a part only matters to a certain degree. I feel like if you were an iconic player for an entire generation, that's more important to me. And like I said, I think that maybe there was one better running back in the league for a five-year stretch.

And in my mind, he's a Hall of Famer already, but I think that you're right. This could be the final thing. If he is able to really help the Raiders fill that one last gap in how good of an offense they can be, this is the kind of stuff that can put you over the top. It absolutely is. All right, buddy.

That's all the time we got. We're going to start talking about some DBs later. I appreciate you doing this, even though I'm sure it's slightly emotionally problematic for you. I mean, I'm good with it either way. I'm just going to be happy to see him play. So I'm happy that it's happening. and yeah, thanks for having me on.

And, man, we're just getting, we're so close. Let's get this draft going. Here we go. All right, bud. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you. All right. Later.

All right. Well, welcome now by Dane Brugher from CBS Sports. And I wanted to have Dane on to talk about the safeties, the corners in this year's draft. And this is the position group, just defensive backs in general, that I feel like I need the most help with. I feel like I can easily make a fool of myself without the right person on the other side of this conversation. So, Dane, thank you much for doing this.

I appreciate having me on a fun time a year where we can, you know, we're counting down the days, only a few more days left. And so it's fun to talk about these guys, figure out where they might fit next level. And with the safeties in this group, I feel like we would normally do this the opposite way. Corners would go first because they're the higher profile players. But in this draft, you have two guys, Jamal Adams from LSU and Malie Cooker from Ohio State that are potential top 10 top 5 type talents. And that's just not something we see at this position very often.

The comparison that makes the most sense of Alabama goes to the Giants. I think the big issue with Collins was very good and run support. Then there's some questions about holding up in coverage. I mean, you saw it routinely on his Alabama tape. You know, the whole missed game still. I can replay in my mind. The touchdowns he gave up. But then he goes to the Giant and he shows considerable improvement with his ability

in past offense. And I think Adams is similar where he's kind of a well-rounded safety where he's not really, you know, elite in anyone area. I mean, he's very good against the run. He holds up well versus the pass. You know, it's a very, very good athlete at 6 foot, 215 pounds. But is he truly elite in anyone area on the field? I don't see it. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

But I think he can be a Landon Collins in the NFL. And to me, you know, that's a Pro Bowl safety. is that worthy of a top five pick? Now, that's something that different teams will have different opinions on. I think a common thought among the NFL team, kind of the old-school way of thinking, is only true difference-making safeties are worth a top-five pick. You know, the Sean Taylor, the Eric Barry, those types of guys, and it's Jamal Adams in that mix.

Now, the one thing that Adams has really going for him, the intangible factor. his leadership I've done thousands and thousands of prospect interviews over the last 10 years and I would say that two of the best probably top five, top 10 two of the best I've ever done are in this class

just interviews talking to them getting to know them versus Cooper Cup the wider senior from eastern Washington and then the second is Jamal Adams and you talk to people at LSU they just rave about this kid's demeanor his mentality

the way he leads other people on and off the field in practice and in games. I think that is something that will really resonate not only with the scouting staff, but also with coaches. And I think that's a big reason why he's being considered in the top five. Now, on the field, he's a very good player. You know, I think he has a chance to compete for Pro Bowls,

similar to Landon Collins. But I think the intangible factor is something, you know, he's the heartbeat of the defense. He really is that alpha. And that's something that I think NFL team, that's what coach will be banging the table for is that intangible factor that he brings. What stood out to you about his interview?

Was it a particular answer to a question? I mean, what really sticks with you? I mean, when you say that, that's remarkable, but was there a specific factor that just jumped out? I think you can tell when answers are pre-programmed, you know, just the generic answers that you receive from a lot of these players. They go through, you know, the PR testing with their agents and, you know, they know the questions

are that they're going to come, and they just kind of rattle off what they've been pre-programmed to say. And I really, you get the sense when you ask Jamal Adams the question, he thinks about it. He truly is, you know, the mental process is going,

and he gives you a very thoughtful answer. And then we just see him interact with his teammates. You know, you see him at practice. You see him interact with, you know, at the Combine, interacting with the guys that he just met a few days ago or, you know, maybe guys that he's not necessarily

close with. It's really, I mean, he is a true alpha. He's the type of guy where he might not be necessarily the loudest guy in the room, but he is someone that when he speaks, everyone stops and listens. And what's interesting with him is that when you consider a guy in the top five, that's the range where you want superstars. That's what you're trying to shoot for in that spot. I think, you know, you probably say the top 10 is that way.

And when you look at him, everything that people have written about him and just watching him play, it feels like his floor is extremely. extremely high. No matter what, he's going to be able to give you this, this, and this. He's going to be great in run support. He's very instinctual. He's going to be a incredible locker room factor. But then you think about how much range he has as a deep half or deep third player, just being able to be a difference maker in coverage. And that's not necessarily the same what he does the best. So those are kind of the conversations you have to have internally. We know the floor is high, but with a fifth pick, as a Bears fan, with a third pick, is high floor the

most important thing. And I don't know the answer to that because we see so many misses at those spots that isn't getting a really good player enough. I honestly don't know what to say. And I think that's probably the internal dialogue a lot of teams are having about him right now. Right. And I think that's a great way to put it. I tweeted out a few weeks ago that to me, with Jamal Adams, you're more excited about his high floor than you are his feeling. And that's, there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, that's, you need guys like that on your team. you know, that help you win football games. But again, going back to the notion of a top five pick, you know,

ideally that should be a superstar. You know, you don't want to be picking in the top five very often. You take a guy in the top five that helps you get out of that basement. And it's something that, you know, not every draft has five top five players. Not every draft that's 10, top 10 players. You know, it's not how it works. You know, and so I think that's where fans have some disconnect with, well, is he truly a top five player?

Well, I mean, are there truly five better players in this draft? I mean, there might not be five through top five players, but again, he might be, you know, the fifth best player just in this particular draft. That's just kind of how it worked out for me personally. I have, to me, there are two difference-making players in this draft. Miles Garrett and a guy we're about to talk about Blake Cooker. To me, those are two true difference makers, guys that I would consider, you know, top five picks, potential superstars.

And then after that, we have, you know, the next tier. that are going to round out the top 10. And so, you know, those guys are going to make up, you know, three of those guys. Well, and Cooker even goes top five. But some of those guys have to make up the rest of the top five, and it might be a little different than, you know, your normal superstar. And Malie Cooker, I can guess why you'd say that about him, but, you know, he's that guy as a center field free safety ball skills,

making plays in the passing game. And when you're thinking about true safety impact and the way the league current, works, the reason that Eric Berry is worth what the chiefs just paid him is because he's changed his game enough to where he can affect the game that way. 2014 Eric Barry wasn't worth this contract. And that's kind of the disconnect between Hooker and Adams in a way. Hooker is more like the current version of Eric Barry, where Adams is going to be maybe more like the 2014 version.

So that's why you think he's probably a better fit as a potential superstar in this version of the NFL. Tell me if I'm wrong. No, that's a great way to put it. And I like your comparison with Eric Berry because that makes a lot of sense. With Jamal Adams, he's a very good player, but I don't think he gives you the difference-making potential. You know, a guy like Billy Hooker can change a game. He can take over a game with what he can do in the back half of the field.

And when you evaluate the safety position, ideally, I mean, you're looking for three main traits. You're looking for range. You're looking for instincts and in tackling skills. And I think Hooker has the ability to be above average in all three areas. You know, we see it on tape. It's change direction skills. It's play speed. The overall range, it jumps off the film.

He's that true center fielder, deep half of the field who can, you know, really change a game with playing both sidelines, it's all skills. You know, downhill and run support, there's no question. He needs to get better. But it's not a question of want to or effort. It's just more of a question of technique and, you know, getting better, just kind of breaking down and being a better finisher, which I think he can do. You know, with Lee Cooker, you know, we have to mention how he's a one-year starter,

and that's something that it matters into the evaluation. You know, we only have 13 games of tape to really watch this guy. Now, there's 13 really, really good games. You know, he had seven picks. And he was, whenever he got the ball in his hand, he made an impact. On those seven interceptions, he had 181 return yards. That's an average of 26 yards per interception. Now, if you have three interceptions,

on the season, you average 26 yards per return. That's pretty good. But when you have seven interceptions and you're averaging 26 yards per return, that's really impressive. And it's something that translates to the next level, something that I think will help them be a playmaker in the secondary. And, you know, the Lossie, I mean, it's something that you don't want to put that on a player who's, you know, so young, still yet he's already being compared to a future Hall of Famer.

And what you think he can mention that name when you talk about Malay Coker. It's funny because you know this probably as well as anybody, just as someone who's around the scouting world a lot. We see what we want to see in prospects. And if you think Malie Cooker's a really good player, you want to throw Ed Reed's name out there. If you're a position coach and somebody says to you, well, he's only been a one year starter, your response is probably, yeah, he's only been a one year starter. Can you imagine what he can be? And that's always so interesting that these weaknesses and these traits are either good or bad, depending on what we think these guys can be.

So when you throw Ed Reed's name out there, I totally understand it because I think when I watch him, I see a long-time difference maker. So it's not ridiculous to me, but I'm probably seeing this through my own lens. Yeah. You know, I think we talk about upside. It's a popular word this time of year.

And it's, you know, arguably the toughest, the toughest thing to evaluate as a scout is, you know, how much upside does the player have? how far from his ceiling is he right now before he even takes an NFL snap? And that's where the evaluation process is so tough because you have to predict the future. You have to, you know, a general manager wants to know from his scouts. When they're sitting in the war room, when they're doing their draft meetings and building their board, they want to know, okay, the player right now is X.

Well, how long before he gets to why and what is that why? How long, or, you know, what's that feeling of what he could be? And it's tough. And that's why we do see, you know, so many misses in the first round because projecting upside and projecting how a player will react to the speed of the NFL, the lifestyle of the NFL, the competition in the NFL. It's something that it doesn't matter how good of an evaluator you are. You know, it's still something that is extremely tough to project. And that's why I think, you know, moving on a little bit further down the safety position, why I think your bill preppers is such a fascinating just entity in this entire process. because we've heard through this, ever since the draft kind of got going, since the combine

happened, everything else, there have been conversations about, what, what position does he play? What is he in the NFL? And part of the difficulty in judging that is because we didn't see him do that in college, but that doesn't mean he can't do that in the NFL. So that kind of, like you said, the gap between point A and point B becomes more important and more difficult for certain players. And in my mind, Peppers is that because it's really hard to answer what is he now and what is he then? Because he was asked to do so many weird things in college.

Right. You know, we're talking about quarterback and, you know, has to do certain things in an offense. Well, it doesn't mean he necessarily can't do it. We just haven't seen it. And so it comes down to, you know, value. And where do you feel comfortable taking a player like that where you're basically asking him to do something that he's never done or is done at a very, you know, rudimentary level. And he's an elite athlete.

And 5-11, 215-15 pounds. He was a legit 4-4 guy. You know, if we see him fly all right. Tight ends were able to separate from him. He would get dominated near the line of scrimmage once a walk. Something to be said about once he gets into an NFL camp and he's given one set of responsibilities and he's not stretched in between, you know, at Michigan, he was played.

He had a known. So he was just stretched so. thin. And I get that for me. I use him however you can. The abilities, I think he'll be able to grow and develop even more that you kind of cross your fingers and hope that he's able to do it on the instincts that he does show because he does play like, don't worry about what peppers. And I think that's why either in that late first, early second round range because of the questions and his potential fit with an NFL team. When you think about that range, whether it's 28 to 35, is there a team in there, a scheme in

there that you say, well, he could probably fit with what they'd ask him to do? The one that really intrigued me is that 30 had that Trussmaker, and then that's too much to say because no one's filling Troy Paul and Molley's shoes a little bit in cover. He could come in a potential. And you look at that. Obviously, they drafted Davis last year, but, or maybe two years ago, I'm losing my timeframe.

They've drafted like 17 defensive backs in the last two years, so it's hard to keep track of all of them. But Mitchell, I believe all the guaranteed money is his contract is already gone. So when you're looking for an upgrade, there's nobody blocked. locking him there where you'd say, well, they've already invested so much in those positions, why would they keep going? That's still probably the area of the roster where they could use the most help. So that's fascinating to me.

And you know the other encouraging part about that franchise is overall, they've let guys come along slowly. So if you feel like you need a little time for him to really understand what he's doing at those spots, they're going to let him do that. Yeah, Mitchell is 1.8 and guaranteed money after this season. So that's a good one. I had not thought about that one quite yet, but I'm honestly, now we're in the range where, like, we're starting to see what those guys are going to look like in the uniforms and I'm getting excited about it.

And you did that for me, which I appreciate. That's good. No, it's one of those intriguing fits that, you know, maybe it's not a perfectly ideal fit, but you can see it and it wouldn't be a complete shocker if it would happen on draft day. So let's one more safety I want to talk about just because, you know, his name was in the news and being talked about so much. as we were going through the combine and everything else is Obi Melo Phonu from Yukon. And one of those reasons is that as soon as those guys get on the turf

and people have stopwatches in their hands, some guys are going to look better than others. And what he did at the combine is it still doesn't make any sense. 6'4, 224 pounds. He ran the 40 and 4-4. Just 4-4 even. No other need, nothing else needed there. 44-inch vertical, which that doesn't even,

that humans shouldn't do that. And his broad jump was 141 inches. So last year, we all freaked out about what Jalen Ramsey did at the combine, which we should have because it was very impressive. This guy outweighs Jalen Ramsey by about 15 pounds. He ran the 40 faster. His bra jump was six inches more and his vertical was two and a half inches more. So describe to me why this guy isn't a top 10 pick.

Yeah, and a 10-yard split was 151, which to put that perspective, John Ross, you know, the fastest 40 ever at the combine, was a one-four-nine. So, I mean, just right there in terms of that initial burst, that initial explosion. I mean, just a silly number at 225 pounds. Because it's not like Obi-Melent Bond was kind of, you know, a one-year starter. I mean, he was a four-year starter at Yukon. He had over 350 tackles. He had four picks last year.

So the body of work is there. and that gives us a reference point because we can watch four years of film and see, okay, how does that athleticism translate to the field? And that's my biggest worry. Before the combine, I gave Melanfanoa a third rhyme grade. And then he goes to combine, blows it up. And, you know, I think we all expected him to do well.

Sure. At the senior bowl, seeing him up close for the first time. I mean, the guy is shredded. I mean, obviously he takes care of himself. I mean, he's trained well. but after the senior ball, after the Combine, I'm sticking with my third round grade.

I'm kind of, I don't know, maybe I'm being stubborn about it, but when I watch him on film, you do see flashes of that athleticism, that size. He's a very unique size speed athlete, but I think the mental trigger

is not where I need it to be for a top 50 safety. Now, he's going to go in the first round. When he just, he needs a moment to see the play unfold. And so he's making a lot of his tackles down the field, you know, there's a popular clip out there during practice

or maybe it was during the game with Donald Pumpery, 175-pound running back, you know, initiates contact in the hole and Melan Boney was on his heels going backwards. I mean, he just doesn't have that bump that you want to safety and then with the speed and the range, yes, he can cover a lot of ground, but the mental trigger for me is the issue

because he doesn't see the plays happen before they do. He doesn't have that anticipation. And so, you know, he's a step late often. And so it doesn't matter how good of an athlete he is. If you're a step late reacting and anticipating what's about to happen, you know, not, you know, no one has the athleticism to make up for that in a time that he, that he needs to. So can he get better at the next level, potentially? You know, maybe he will.

But I still think that that's one of the toughest things. You know, I think that instinctively kind of you are who you are, usually instincts don't get better at the next level. that's the biggest issue for me with Melan Fondo. I take him the third round, but I'm going to let someone else take him to the first round where he's likely to go. That makes total sense. And it's interesting when you have that disconnect between how much,

how fast the guy moves when he's not reacting to something and how fast he moves when that's all you have to do. And that's, it makes sense that that's how a guy that moves like that shouldn't deserve to go in the first round. All right, let's do five quick minutes on the corners here before you got to get out of here. And let's start with Marshaun-Ladamor because as a Bears fan,

and that's really the guy I've thought about the most and considered the most with that third pick just based on the other needs that they have. Just in comparison to other corners you've seen come out lately, who does he compare to and just where do you think his sealing exists? To me, reminds me a lot of Norris Jenkins. You know, former ex-Florida transfer for a senior year had some off-field issues.

And the Rams really got to steal with him. Obviously, now with the Giants, signed that lucrative deal last off-season. But he's just, he's a very, fluid athlete, very twitching, very sudden. And as a corner, when you know, when you watch him on film, you just don't see that separation between him and receivers. Now, he'll often play press.

He doesn't jam much. The Ohio State corners really weren't asked to do that. But they do play press. They do get up in the face of receivers. And Lattimore, he just plays sticky. It's hard for receivers to really escape from him. And even when he does give up a little bit of spacing at the top of route, he has a closing burst to react in a moment's notice and make up that space and make a play on the ball.

So the biggest issue for me with Lidomor is just the soft tissue injuries, you know, the hamstring. How does that play into the final evaluation? That's where you just have to kind of trust your medical staff and say, listen, is this something you think is, you know, is this going to be a continuing problem at the next level? And whatever my medical staff, the doctors and trainers, wherever they tell me, you kind of have to go with. When is the last time you heard about a guy having surgery on his hamstrings, especially in college? I mean, I don't, that's a genuine question. I can't remember ever happening.

And when you have guys that have really bad lingering soft tissue issues, surgery isn't even an end point or a solution for those players. So that gives me pause for sure. Yeah. And these issues go back to high school. He was expected, he was the top of crew. He was expected to get on the field immediately for Ohio State. but those issues from high school caused him to have the surgery and red shirt in 2014.

And then in 2015, it was the opposite hamstring that was basically, you know, he had like five tackles in 2015 because he barely saw the field because of his other hamstring. And, you know, to his credit, at any time as a redshirt sophomore in 2016, started all 13 games. But nonetheless, I mean, the best predictor of future injuries is passed away very heavily when you consider taking him in the top 10. When you look at him and Marlon Humphrey from Alabama, who a lot of people to consider the second best corner in the draft,

how large is the gap between those two guys for you? Humphrey's a little different. I mean, he's bigger, and I think he's probably the most aggressive corner in this draft. He is so physical, so violent the way he plays the game. But he kind of, if you're going to draw up the corner, that's what you want a corner to look like. He's north of six foot.

Head turns, finding the ball, locating the ball, making a play on the ball. and that's kind of something that you see him doing flashes, just not on a consistent base. 21 until it's not pick. It's because all the skills are there for him to be, you know, a blanket NFL court. Awesome.

Well, Dan, I know you got to go. Sincerely appreciate the time. This was incredibly informative. And thank you for letting me inform some people about a position that I have absolutely nothing. I know nothing about for the most part. So thanks a bunch. And best of luck, enjoy the draft.

And I'm glad there's a light at the end of the tunnel for you. Well, you too. I enjoyed it. Appreciate me on. Absolutely. Talk to you later. All right. That's all we got. Thank you very much again to Dan for doing this. Thank you, as always, to Danny Kelly for coming out to talk about the Seahawks knowledge that we so desperately need. We will be back next week because the draft is almost upon us. So we need to do a couple more of these to really get ready. Thank you for listening as always,

and we'll talk to you guys soon.