The Ringer NFL Show - Matchups to Watch in the Championship Games

Episode Date: January 27, 2022

Nora and Mal start by mentioning the most recent coaching and general manager hires around the league (1:01). Then they identify a couple of key matchups to watch in the AFC (7:35) and NFC championship games (26:46). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Mallory Rubin Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely  Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Mallory Rubin. And I'm Van Leithen. Check out the Ringerverse podcast from The Ringer for all things, superhero movies, nerd culture, and fandom entertainment. We have instant reviews and fun takes on all the latest news and more. Available now on Spotify. Hello and welcome to the Thursday edition of the Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Pintziotti.

I am back with Mallory Rubin. Mallory, I've missed our Thursday pod. It's good to see you. It's been a while since it's been just the two of us, bud. Great to be with you. I've missed you. Two of us. Bap, bap, ba, da,

but up, ba, da, but, okay. Oh, wow. We're singing. That's how you know we're deep into January. It's, that's, that is how you know.

That is how you know. The other way that you know is that today on this very podcast, we are going to go through the matchups to watch in the championship games this weekend. The matchups that we think these games are going to come down to. But first, I want to update everybody with. just some news items that have come across the ticker in the last few hours, couple of days.

First of all, it's Thursday morning. And earlier today, Ben Rathusberger officially announced his retirement. And there have been a few updates in the ongoing head coach and general manager cycles. So the Broncos are hiring former Packers O.C. Nathaniel Hackett as their head coach. The Bears are hiring former Colts defensive coordinator, Matt Ibrose as their head coach.

And Quasi Adofa Menza from the Browns is going to be the Vikings general manager. They are still looking for a head coach. There are several other openings. We are going to have all sorts of coverage on those hires and the rest of them on pods across the ringer network. And on the ringer.com, what a great website. What a great website. Great website.

Looking forward to that. And yeah, we'll be, you know, I'm sure Kevin Clark is firing off tweets about it as we speak. We will have the Sunday pod on the championship games, but there will be tons of coverage on all of that as we move through those cycles. But today, the important business that we have to get to is these matchups. Mallory, how are you feeling just sort of like emotionally about championship Sunday? I'm excited. We're coming off an all-time electric divisional round, some of the most thrilling and down-to-the-wire football

that we've had the pleasure of watching, period, let alone condensed into one divisional round weekend. That was just such a treat for football fans. And I am hyped for both of these divisional matchups. I think we have two really fun games ahead of us. And part of the reason that I think we wanted to do the matchups, you know, each toss out a key matchup inside of each game is because there are so many micro and macro matchup keys in these contexts, some fascinating ones on the field in terms of personnel, some fascinating ones in terms of franchise philosophy, coaching scheme, etc. We're in for a treat, Nora. It's going to be a fun Sunday.

How are you feeling? I'm feeling good. And we should say that there are obviously tons of edges and matchups in each one of these games that could matter will matter. We're not going to get to all of them. We're just going to define some that we think are particularly key. I do want to back up just a little bit back to last weekend, Mel, if I can put you on the spot for just one moment, fix overtime. How do we do it?

Oh, it's an imperative. It's an imperative for us as a football viewing public, Nora. It's an imperative for the NFL as a league. It's imperative for football as a sport. That game cannot end based on who wins the coin flip. It cannot end without Josh Allen and the bills touching the ball. It just can't. And obviously Kansas City fans have been on the other side of that

and know that as well as any fan base does, right? So what exactly the right setup is, what exactly the rule change looks like if it's specific to the postseason or extends across the regular season as well? I'm open to any number of scenarios. Other than this one, do you have one particular rule tweak

that you're partial to? Yes. I want essentially a hockey-style shootout except two-point conversions. Okay. So you have a little bit of the college football OT energy in your pitch here. Yeah. So I actually,

and I will say that game was was kind of a big moment for me is because I used to really not care that much about the OT roles. Like I, I just felt like, you know what? Get a stop on defense. Win the game in regulation like too bad. And maybe I have like I just find the bills very lovable.

I find Josh Allen very lovable. I have no real rooting interest, but I will cop to having those warm, fuzzy feelings about the Buffalo Bills as a team. And it was so sad to me to not get to watch them make an attempt it over time, that now I am team change the rules. And yes, I do think I have a little bit of college energy in there. But just, you know, like trick shots, basically. Let's keep it excited.

Incredible. This is incredible. I love it. You remember the old, the old Grantlin, how we'd fix it? rubric from back in the day. I'm envisioning the Nora how we'd fix it, the outline here that is entirely hinged to trick shots. I feel like this is one you should partner with Roger Sherman on. The trick shot push. This is definitely something that lives deeply in Roger's soul. It would be very exciting. It would be great television.

It would certainly be good television. Yeah. Whether it would be the best on-til product who could say. I have a lot of, I have a lot of ideas that you could find. file under. Well, it would certainly be good television. It would certainly be good television. I think it would also, the makings of a good Taylor Swift song, you know? That's what I was quite on my tombstone. It feels like it had like the rhythmic nature of a of a lyrical ode. Get a stop on the D, win a game before O.T. Is that how Taylor Swift song's going on? Well, that had some real like 1989. You were talking about that. Max Martin Rhythm. MacMath.

You were talking about Taylor on the Zoom before we started recording as you often are. And I'm just here to support you in all of your passions. Yes. I was telling Mallory and our wonderful producers about a fabulous video in which Taylor Swift appearing on Jimmy Fallon's program is

surprised by a video of her post Lasic surgery that her mother, unbeknownst to her, had given them the producers. It is on YouTube. I highly recommend anyone who has not seen it, check it out. It was delightfully funny. And really wonderful to watch.

Speaking of really wonderful to watch, Bengals at Chiefs, this is where we're going to start. Okay. I think we sort of have to start here. Okay. I like getting rematches because it's nice to have recent evidence of the Bengals beating the Chiefs because I think there's a tendency to kind of look at what Kansas City did last week. And I certainly felt this way after the game and still to an extent do

and just think, how is anybody going to beat them when their offense is just like on God tier in that way. But it is helpful to know that just a few weeks ago, these two teams did play. This calendar month. Yes. I remember it all too well. That's a Taylor Swift lyric for you. And the Bengals came out victorious in that. And there's a lot of matchups that we can talk about in this one, particularly, you know, how much pressure Joe Burroughs going to end up facing. Obviously, he's just coming off that nine sack, nine sacks that he had to deal with against Tennessee. But the matchup that I am circling in this one is the matchup that I think won the Bengals the game in week 18,

which is Jamar Chase versus. the chief's outside corners. So Jamar Chase, whether he's matched up on Traverius Ward, Legerius Sneed, some combination. When Chase faced man coverage without safety help on the outside in week 18, he went for six receptions for 166 yards and two touchdowns. Now, overall, he had 11 catches for 266 yards and three touchdowns. It was just an unbelievable game.

And a massive, massive, massive part, I think the number one reason why the Bengals were able to win that game. Because what has happened with Burrow and continued to happen to an extent against Tennessee is he has just found a way to still complete those passes to the outside, win those one-on-ones, even when he's under an immense amount of pressure. And one thing that I'm fascinated to see on the Chief's side, defensively in this game is how Steve Spagnolo sort of approaches the challenge of keeping enough guys in coverage, but also attacking the weakness of the Bengals offensive line.

Because we know the Bengals love to line up and empty. They love to spread it out. They love to just, you know, try to man up on the outside and win those one-on-ones. But what does a guy like Steve Spagnolo want to do when he sees his opponent line up and empty, he is going to want to blitz the crap out of them. Like, fundamentally in his heart, he is going to want to just like, pressure, pressure, pressure, pressure, let's go, get after him, let's do it. But, first of all, and I'm not saying that that's necessarily a bad idea.

And if he does that and they are winning enough of those battles on the offensive line, which like they would be favored to do with their pass rushers versus the Bengals blockers, then it comes down to another interesting question, which is, is Burrow and are those receivers and is Zach Taylor going to just live and die the way that they have been living and dying to this point, which has gotten them where they are in the AFC championship game, and say, okay, bring it on.

We are going to still try to throw deep. And if we get, if Jamar Chase or, Higgins, if they win two, three, four of those explosives, well, each one of those is going for, you know, 40 to 75 yards and maybe a touchdown. So it doesn't matter if you sack him five times or eight times or 10 times or whatever. That's scary in its own way. But they have won games by doing that. The alternative is to say, okay, maybe we will lower the A dot a little bit.

Maybe we will try to institute some quick game here to a degree. And if the chiefs test them by giving Burroughs some underneath stuff and saying, I don't think that you're going to be able to be patient. I don't think that you're going to be able to wait us out all game. See if he's willing to take it because they want those explosives so badly. I think that is another sort of configuration of how this could play. out that still comes down to Chase because how do you manufacture explosives if you're bringing that AdD in a little bit? It's the playmakers after the catch. And as much as we've seen

later on in this season, so many highlight real moments of, you know, Chase just catching a 30 air yard pass and taking it all the way for a touchdown, he can do that with a dump off screen pass just as easily. Right? Yes. And given, you know, we don't know, we don't know what the status of the Honey Badger is for this. I think we are going to see if he's not 100% or if he's not playing. Like Kansas City is going to be stressed sort of over the middle of the field, how they get coverage from those safeties, even more than they already are, right?

Like, this is a team that still plays Daniel Sorensen, even when they are at full strength. Right. I just think that even if the game plan is a little bit. different in how the chiefs try to bring pressure and how quickly the Bengals in turn try to have Bro get rid of the ball. It is still ultimately going to come down to the fact that they are built to just have to win those matchups on the outside. That's how they beat them the first time.

I think if the Bengals have a shot in this game, they're going to have to do that again. I'm with you. I mean, watching Chase, watching the Chase, Burrow connection is something we've talked about all season long. long, right? Going all the way back to like quarter season awards. And it's been one of our favorite things to watch and enjoy all season. And obviously that success has continued into the postseason. I mean, Chase is, what, 18 years away from breaking the postseason rookie receiving record. That's Tori Holtz right now, 242 and 99. I mean, that's, we're talking about one

reception or two before he breaks that in this one. Like, that's how dominant he's been already. And I love the the average depth of target point you're making because you think about these home run plays and these big field stretching executions, which have defined so much of the success. You know, looking at the week 17, KC, head to head, so much of that yard is a huge chunk of it came on home run plays, the 72 and 69 yard touchdowns.

But the other thing that defined the outing was the yards after catch, as you noted. That is just so key with Chase, who is not, who was a field stretcher in myriad fashions, right? And it's not just going to be about whether KC can defend the point of the catch, but whether they can hang with him and tackle him, whether they can bring him down after the ball is in his hands, because he has the ability to do so many things there.

And you combine that with everything that's happening on the O line and the O line concerns for Cincinnati coming off of that nine-sack outing against that blitz-happy Kansas City unit with Ingram and Chris. Jones pressuring bro, it's just going to be incredible to watch. I honestly can't wait. And, you know, that gets us to my key matchup that I want to throw your way, Nora, and I'm going to admit up front, it's a little bit of a cheat. My NFC one's a little purer in terms of the spirit of the exercise, but I couldn't help

myself here. And I'm going with Patrick Mahomes ever heard of them versus history. because I think we have to think about that based on what we've seen the last couple weeks and what we've seen from Mahomes in his career so far. And obviously, this connects directly and extricably with your key matchup because I think we can safely say

that we and much of the collective watching this game, breaking down this game agrees, it's not going to be a question. of thwarting Mahomes or stopping Mahomes. It's going to be about what Bro and the Bengals can do to keep pace. That is ultimately going to be the calculus, right? And what are they keeping pace with?

We were just talking a couple of minutes ago about what an instant classic, the Bill's Chiefs game, was this just genuinely, like viscerally thrilling showdown of elite teams, elite quarterbacks. You know, we're going to be watching Allen and Mahomes go. head to head for like a decade. It's a very exciting time to be a football fan, right? As much as we talked after the divisional round game rightly, rightly, and we talked heading into it, of course, too,

about Allen going toe to toe with Bohmns, cementing his status. The matchup and the outcome also reinforce, the need to fix the overtime rules as we already discussed, but digress. It reinforced that Mojones is never out of it. Never, never, never, never, right? He got the ball back with 13 seconds left in regulation and forced overtime.

We can never say that out loud enough. We should never stop talking about that enough. That is the thing that we all just witnessed. 13 seconds, Nora, and they forced overtime. That is astonishing. I love hearing this week about the Grim Reaper nickname that everyone's tossing around after that. It's like, of course, so fitting and so apt because, you know, death, not to be too grim here, Nora. Grim, Grim, Grimper.

Not to be too bleak, I should say, I guess. Switch up the phrasing a little bit. Death comes for all of us, and so does Patrick Mahomes. You know, that's just where we are, right? Here's a little stat for you. Our pal, Kevin Clark, we'll call it a nugget. From ESPN, stats and info. This is a tweet from Thursday morning.

This is outside of the Kansas City Buffalo matchup. This is outside of the specific scenario. a general snapshot to attempt to put some specificity around Mahomes' wizardry, though. I loved the quote tweet on this ESPN stats and info tweet from friend of the ringer, pal, colleague, Rainey, who is, of course, Rani is a huge Kansas City fan, and he quote tweeted this by saying, you, the statistic that perfectly encapsulates the greatness of Patrick Mahomes doesn't exist, you know, and then the meme where you cut off the thing mid-sentence and then have the other thing. And here's the other thing.

Quote, the chiefs are three and one in the playoffs with Patrick Mahomes when their in-game win probability dips below 5%. The rest of the NFL is 1 in 38 since 2018. Like, goodness gracious. What could you point to that more succinctly sums up the fact that we are watching a superhuman player generate superhuman results, right? This is just not a normal thing. Mahomes is the first quarterback in NFL history to start four conference championship games before he turns 27. If he wins this game against Cincinnati, he's going to be the youngest quarterback in NFL history to start three Super Bowls. Per of the NFL, only 13 quarterbacks have started three or more Super Bowls ever.

Ever. Mahomes is one win away from doing that at the age of 26. So we can't just look at what is happening on the field in this game. We have to look at the history around it. What is what is unfolded to get to this point? What is at stake after this moving forward? What sort of historical pace we're looking at? What records could fall?

And you know, you mentioned that week 17 head to head. Like I think in terms of Mahomes and the Kansas City results specifically, yes, take nothing away from Cincinnati. That was a hugely impressive win that they needed, right? And it's fun to be able to say, like, oh, Jumar Chase had more receiving yards than that game than Patrick Mahomes had passing yards. That's a fun thing to be able to say. But also, like, Kansas City sprung four consecutive touchdown drives in the first half before falling off late. They're not going to vanish in the second half against this Bengals defense in the championship game.

They just aren't. And they were also depleted in that game, which we have to remember, you know, among other issues, they lost their left tackle, Orlando Brown. In the pregame, hurt his leg, warming. up that caused the Jotuni slide down the offensive line and recalibrated a good, a good chunk of what they were doing in that game. And then even if there was nothing that was going to improve health-wise or roster-wise, which there is in this game, it's historic record that Mahomes bounces back when he does suffer one of these losses.

Here's another, a little nugget for you from the NFL. Patrick Mahomes is four and one against teams that he has lost to in the same season. The only loss on that ledger is against New England in the 2018 title game. So you look at something like the Week 17 matchup and say Travis Kelsey was not a factor in that game. He will be here, right? The Bengals defense is not going to be able to silence Kelsey in this matchup the way they did there. I definitely think the Bengals have a chance. I think that this will be close.

I'm expecting a shootout. but Mahomes is not just facing down Hendrickson or Reader or Burrow as the other quarterback. He's facing down history as much as anyone else. And I can't wait to watch it. Wow. Wow. What do you think? That felt like a hype video like voiceover.

Isaiah, give us some hype track music. On the other side, history itself. I think it's good to. What flavor gatorade do you think history likes to drink, you know, over there on the other side? line. Oh, wow. Yeah. I like to drink cool blue Gatorade. When I have a rare Gatorade, Cool blue is the, no, cool blue is the elite Gatorade. It's delicious. I just had an argument with my husband about this because he's on a real weird Gatorade

kick and he keeps buying orange and red and I'm like, let's get some blue in the mix. Come on. Yeah. I do love it. I know. I hear that and I respect it, but cool blue with the twist top is the platonic ideal Gatorade. Were you a big Gatorade Frost kid? Taking a cool Gatorade Frost down to the beach and an Outer Banks visit, one of the through lines of my youth. Wow. Yeah. Wow.

That's, I feel like I can see it. It's a vivid. A copy of Catch 22 in one hand and a Gatorade Frost in the other. What if it yet you've painted for us, Mallory Rubin? That's fantastic. I'm glad that we are, you know, painting with. all of the colors and expanding the focus to include the lens of history itself when we look at this game because I do think that it is a game that you have to get a little bit romantic about

and and hype up a little bit to see maximum intrigue in, right? Because the chiefs are clearly the favorite here. But what is so compelling to me is along with all of those stats that you just mentioned about Mahomes' success in the playoffs, the only question, the only question quarterback who's ever knocked Patrick Mahomes out of the playoffs is Tom Brady himself. Right. And Joe Burrow is trying to become the second one. And Joe Burrow, I mean, he plays for the Bengals, for goodness sakes. But he's like the coolest guy in football right now.

And he doesn't like hip or cool as in like calm, poised, measured? I guess it's more. more the latter. More the latter. Yeah. Because I have some notes on the, on the jacket

that we saw in the, in the post game last week. That's all. Look, he's working. He had the Sydney Sweeney glasses. The glasses were good.

Yeah. The glasses were good. It's true. But he does, he does seem like he has a chance to be, yes. One of the next guys.

And the AFC is stacked with those guys right now. And he doesn't, you know, he doesn't have Josh Allen's athletic ability. He doesn't have tools of a Lamar Jackson.

But what he does seem to have... I appreciate you mentioning that Lamar Jackson is a young talented quarterback in the AFC on like the broadcast booth in the Buffalo, Kansas City game. But carry on. I'm here to make you happy, Mallory. But he is unflappable and expects to win. He will not let anybody call them an underdog this week, which I find sort of like every football team in history wants to be like nobody believes in us.

And the Bengals are like, absolutely not. And there's something very charming about that. And I do think that it's really, really, there is something about Burrow that makes me think that if, that he is someone who has a chance to do it. And it's a great point. There's an intangible there for sure in terms of not feeling like daunted by what awaits.

And it's an intangible for the most part, but it's also part of that I think feeds into, he does not care when he gets hit. Now, I want him to get hit a whole lot less. Like I think there are some very real concerns about his long-term trajectory based on the amount of pressure and the amount of hits and socks that he's been taking. But when you watch him just take so much punishment in a game and still be firing completion after completion and just hanging tough, there is something that I do think other people on the team respond to that the guys that he's playing with notice that he, you know, I wrote a story about them that is not up on the ringer.com great website yet.

it will be soon. And one of his teammates just said he is the exact same in the huddle after taking nine sacks as he is on the first play of the game. And there's real confidence that comes from that. So it is Patrick Mahomes versus history. And it is also Joe Burrow versus the history of Patrick Mahomes. And that is very, very exciting. So I'm glad that you pointed that out now.

I would love for Burrow to not take nine sacks per game and for the Bengals to protect him and for him to have a long, healthy, vibrant career. Very worrying. Hard same. Just like a full same. An enthusiastic same. All right. Shall we get to our next matchup?

Let's do it. I am hyped about this one too. What? Oh, yeah. These are juicy games. Like rematches are just juicy. And 49ers at Rams is certainly a rematch. And I will get straight to it and say that the matchup that I have highlighted here is,

I think, sort of at the core of all of those. This is a multi-time rematch. And it is Sean McVey versus Kyle Shanahan. You may have heard that San Francisco has won six straight games against the Rams. And that this may be a fact that bothers Sean McVey to a certain degree, given that Kyle Shanahan is a friend, a former colleague, one of the engineers of a different version of, the same type of offense that they both run.

I would highly encourage anyone to read Ben Solax piece up on the ringer. A work of sincere scholarship. Incredible read. It really like earnestly, when someone is able to take, and the piece is about how they both took these sort of wide zone running game plus play action, working in the middle of the field offenses that evolved out of what Mike Shanahan used to run. and taught both of them and took them in different directions based on their own choices,

based on personnel in particular, the 49ers having a fullback and called use check. And where those schematic diversions came from, where they went, and why some of them have given the 49ers the edge thus far when these teams have gone head to head. And it's just a fantastic piece. it explains something that's really fundamentally important about these teams and this game really, really well and clearly. Like, it is no secret that Ben has just a great understanding of the game and of offenses. But it is so impressive when someone is able to explain that so clearly in a way that teaches people. So I love that piece and I think everybody should read it.

It will certainly help them prepare to watch this game. You think Sean McVeigh should read it? Ouch. No. Ouch. Maybe not. Maybe he should skip that one. Might get it his head.

Yeah. The thing that I kept coming back to is that if there's a sort of on-field matchup that strikes me as the most important here, I think it is Stafford and Odell Beckham just working the outside against San Francisco's cornerbacks. Like, the more I think about it, this is the. game that if you're the Rams, you have Odell Beckham on your team for this moment. But even that, it is one sort of coming down to which Matt Stafford shows up. And there's just like, there is no way of knowing that.

I cannot predict that. You cannot predict that. Matt Stafford cannot predict that. It is not a conversation for us mere mortals. But even beyond which guy shows, the ability to work that potential mismatch is also feeding into the coaching matchup because what we've seen this season is this sort of ebb and flow, particularly on the ram side of how explosive of a passing offense they are willing to be because that is not

what these types of offenses were originally built to do. They wanted to run wide zone. And then in the spaces vacated in the middle of the field, they wanted to work the passing game. But part of the reason that the Rams had to go get Stafford in the first place was because golf over time was less and less capable of working those spaces in the middle of the field. So they went and got a guy who they said, okay, well, Stafford's not going to have those same weaknesses and he's going to be able to air it out. and we're going to dig and have a different way of generating passing plays. And that worked for a while, right? But then they went away from it.

And part of it was because Stafford was making mistakes. He's made mistakes certainly against the 49ers this season. He threw 17 interceptions this season. Four of them were against San Francisco. But I don't think that this Rams team, which I think is more talented than this 49ers team, has any interest in getting into a game that is fundamentally going to be won and lost in the trenches against San Francisco. And so it's going to come down to what they can do to attack the weak spots a corner on the other side

and how much they can rely on the passing offense that they did so much to build through personnel and through acquisitions, but which coaching has not always been willing to live and die with. So when, you know, really I think a lot of it has to do with McVay. Like on the, the Shanahan piece of it is kind of can he retain the throne by finding yet another counter to whatever McVay wants to do. Right. But I do think that there's just so much on him when he shows up to press the right

buttons with the quarterback with the offense. and to not get overly conservative because it is his tendency to do so in in certain games and in certain big spots. I mean, the 49ers would not be here if the Rams had been able to just get a first down at the end of their week 18 game and knock the Niners out of the playoffs. Instead, they had a minute and 50 seconds to go and they ran the ball three times, got stopped. San Francisco scores a touchdown wins in overtime. We just saw them turtle similarly against the bucks. And I think there's a real chance that that happens again here and preventing it from happening.

I think it's one of the biggest factors in this for the Rams, particularly because of who is going to be on the other side. And it's fascinating because both coaches understand what the other wants to do so well. they know how to attack it. It is schematic, but there's just a mental piece to it, too, that I think we're going to get a vibe for when we watch this one. I agree. This is the key, not only to this one,

but probably the number one key matchup for the entire weekend. I mean, this is just such a rich and nuanced text. And I'm glad you shouted out Ben's piece. And I think, you know, the thing that really stood out reading that and moving through the years is this kind of core thesis that when there's a tendency to observe like shared history and connections and similarities, the key is often in the distinctions and the differences, right? That's ultimately where the edge is going to be. And, you know, when you look at the 6 and 0 at the prospect of that, maybe moving to 7 and 0, like, that is like a

heavy, weighty thing. And like, these are two coaches who have made Super Bowls already. Like, they're both trying to get to their second Super Bowl in their first half decade. with the team. Like there's, there's a remarkable amount of success here, but in this smaller, shrunken scope and sphere of the head to heads, inside of the same division where they will continue to face off against each other. That just feels like consequential well beyond what unfolds in this specific context. And like, you know, the fact that they both wanted to trade for Stafford, it's just like such a delicious little element of this, right? Stafford, Stafford and his family, I don't know if this is out there.

It probably is. Stafford and his family had chosen which Bay Area town they were going to live in. Which one did they pick? I forget. I don't know California enough. It's so like, I really, if you gave me like a sub-neighborhood of Manhattan, I would be like, oh, which block? But I just, I don't know.

But they were, like, that I'm glad that that has sort of reentered the conversation this week. because that's a major piece of this. Like, I think Kyle Shanahan really thought he was going to be coaching Matthew Stabbard. I agree. And yet, he's coaching Jimmy Garoppolo. Incredible stuff. Jimmy. One of the, one of the knocks to connect your key matchup to mine here, one of the knocks, of course, on McVeigh

over the last few seasons is this pattern. setting, right? The predictability, the delays in adjusting, you know, who is he going to be more vulnerable against ultimately than the guy who knows him and this offense the best? Well, one of the keys then is going to be who can make an adjustment and who can account for what the other person is trying to do. And I agree completely with everything that you said about Stafford, everything you said about the passing game. When we look at Sanfran and Grappola trying to take advantage across the middle of the field. Everything that Chanahan is going to scheme open with Debo, with the running game more widely.

Everything is going to connect back to one of the other things you mentioned already, which is the battle in the trenches, right? Can these offensive lines contend with the defensive lines and the pressure that they are going to attempt to generate to disrupt the offensive schemes? I think that there are a few different key ways that this can manifest. Which team can break through the opposing line and disrupt the quarterback with four rushers? Which team can do that consistently without blitzing? Which quarterback can beat the blitz when it does come?

We'll dive into all of these and a little more specificity in a second here. And potentially most crucially of all, especially when we're talking about Stafford and Garoppolo, which quarterback can limit the mistakes if the pressure does come and if it is disruptive, right? Who can avoid the fatal, fatal error? We're talking about two of the most formidable

defensive fronts in football. The Rams and the Niners are two of the top three teams. Rams are number one, Niners are number three, in PFF's pass rush unit grades. Two of the top three. We'll start with the Rams D line.

we should probably end on the Niners D line against Stafford. That's a, that's a juicy one. Aaron Donald ever heard of him, Nora. It almost feels like absurd. As absurd is like, oh, Patrick Malhombs is going to be key to this game to talk about Aaron Donald, but you have to, right? I mean, he's obviously one of the best players in all of football, best defensive players in all the football,

and his ability to blow up a game and what the other team is trying to do is Supreme. And then you build an ad around him, right? So the fact that Von Miller has been coming on for the Rams in the past couple of games is a big deal. You know, he had a sack. He had a forced fumble, fumble recovery against the bucks. He has at least one sack per the NFL in four consecutive postseason games. Like he is going to be determined to find a way to get to Garapolo. And so when we look at Garoppolo, the question is, as always, really how and when the mistakes come, more so than if, right?

and how many of the Rams pass rush can force. So in that 310 game, the 310 San Francisco went earlier in the season, the first head-to-head of the season, Jimmy hammered the middle of the field. Like we often talk about Carapolos reliance on the middle of the field, but it was particularly notable in that game, especially because of how reliant he was on quick throws to beat the pressure, right? And it worked. Like, it worked. This is per next gen stats. This is a next gen stats tweet from the wake of that game, that 31-10 matchup.

Quote, Garapolo averaged the second quickest time to throw of his career, 2.3 seconds. Garapolo on quick passes, so passes that are coming out faster than 2.5 seconds. 12 for 14, 138 yards, two touchdowns in that game. Plus 16.5% completion percentage over-expected, plus 14.2 EP. So this connects to your matchup, your key matchup and the coaching head to head in a few different ways. But Shanahan knows this.

He knows that he needs to scheme to protect Garapolo from what the defense is going to try to do to disrupt him. What about on the other side? Niners D-line. Okay. So for the Rams and the offensive line, which is one of the best in the sport at combating pressure, right, and holding up and standing up to that pressure, Andrew Whitworth should be back for this game. Damn, it is looking like he will be back at left tackle for the Rams. So that is huge.

That's a big deal. Because the Rams offensive line has to go against Eric Armstead and Nick Bosa, right? Who are the head of that penetration monster for the San Francisco front. They were so dominant and so fun to watch against Green Bay. Two sacks, three pressures each. The way that Bosa was not only breaking through the Packers front, But then the instinct to know that Rogers is going to move up in the pocket when he starts to crumble and just like a suction cup moving up right behind him. Yeah.

It was just amazing to watch. Like a sandworm. Oh, Nora. It always comes back to the spice and the thumpers, you know? When you hear the thumper, you got to move. That's what I've always said. I know you're a big thumperhead now, a big spice scholar. I love it.

There's spice in Star Wars too, so that's going to be how I try to get you into the Star Wars tattooing of it all with me. I'll get you there eventually, I promise. D'Meico Ryans will have a outstanding game plan in place for this contest. He will. And he's not going to be working with that cross-the-field roster full of stars, right? He's got Bosa, he's got Armstead, he's got Warner. The ability to,

overcome the personnel set among the defensive backs has been one of the stories of the season, right? And so when they're facing off against Stafford, they know, as we know, that he is outstanding against the Blitz, right? As is cup, this was one of my favorite, great, great Kevin Clark Pod this week here on the Ringer NFL show. One of my favorite little bits of that conversation that Kevin had with Sheal, Capadia, was that cup is just so dominant against the Blitz that Cooper Cobb has 636 receiving yards against the blitz the most by a wide receiver. This is per shale on the pod in a single season over the last 15 years. But of course, the Niners don't need to blitz, right?

They don't need to blitz to muddy the pocket and disrupt Stafford's timing and let him capitalize on that. They don't need to let him take advantage of the blitz. You mentioned those four turnovers, Nora, that Stafford has had against San Francisco this year. So he was better overall, much better overall in the second game. But the turnovers were split across the two contests. And he was absolutely under fire, even with that protection savvy line, absolutely under fire in that second contest in particular. He was pressured 16 times, sacked a handful of times. This is per the athletics, Jordan Rodriguez, quote, in week 18, the 49ers front pressured Stafford at the highest rate he's faced all season, 48.

6% of dropbacks. If you do that and you know it works and you win the game, you simultaneously, and this is one of the keys overall to the Shanahan approach across the field. We often talk about it on offense, but it permeates through the entire way the franchise's run. Do the thing you know works and then build on it and adapt, right? This is going to be incredible to watch.

Yeah, it is going to be really fascinating. I just want to add one, to your point about Jimmy working in the middle of the field. One thing that was really interesting at the beginning of the season was, how much more the Rams were asking Jalen Ramsey to play in the slot and to really move around the field. And early on, I had some, I wasn't in love with that idea just because I think flexibility is great. A dominant outside corner is still ultimately more valuable. But in this situation, I think it's fascinating because Jimmy in some ways can thrive over the middle of the field.

That's where that offense is designed to have him throwing a lot. It also means that that's where his picks come. Like, Jimmy completes a lot of passes over the middle of the field. He also throws a lot of interceptions over the middle of the field. And I do think that the Rams have the personnel to potentially capitalize on that. The other thing I think is that this is going to be an Aaron Donald game. You know, like the ways that L.A. gets pressure. We've seen Vaughn Miller coming on so well, taking advantage of the space opened up by all the double teams, triple teams that Donald command.

You know, we've seen Leonard Floyd have his role for similar reasons. I just think there's always going to be some of that, right? Like, Aaron Donald is always going to command a ton of attention and that's going to open things up for others. But interior pressure is so critical because there's less space to cover. You get there faster. And all Kyle Shanahan wants is for Jimmy to get rid of the ball quickly and do not go past that five-step drop.

Right. Jimmy, like, up to that point, good quarterback. Once you get past a five-step drop, things get really, really, really, really not good, really, really quickly. So it is a getting to the quarterback quickly challenge. It is a first and second down thing. Like, if Jimmy is in third and long,

all day against this Rams fast rush. I think that is really, really, really good for L.A. But how do you make that happen? I think you need interior pressure that's going to disrupt him quickly at the outset of a play. Agreed. This has been the Ringer NFL show. Ben, Stephen, and Kaelin will be coming up next on this feed.

They will be previewing both championship games this Friday. Kevin, Ben, Stephen and myself will be live on Green Room immediately following the NFC championship game to break down. both conference championship matchups. Mallory will be back on the ringer verse feed with Joanna Robinson this Friday to break down book of Boba Fett episode five. That's exciting. I will be back on the prestige TV podcast with Joanna on Sunday to break down the fourth

episode of Season 2 of Euphoria. See if we can get a Joe Burrow reference in there. I believe in you. Thank you to production assistant Isaiah Blakely for production on this episode and to Arjuna Ramgapal for additional production, super. Thank you.