The Ringer NFL Show - Matt LaFleur and Robert Saleh on Reaching the Pinnacle of the Profession, Coaching for and Against Aaron Rodgers, and a Deep Appreciation for Benihana | Flying Coach With Sean McVay and Peter Schrager

Episode Date: May 26, 2021

Sean and Peter are joined by Green Bay Packers head coach Matt LaFleur and New York Jets head coach Robert Saleh to talk about how they became friends, their personal philosophies as coaches, how to motivate veterans as a young coach, Saleh’s upcoming first year in New York, drafting Zach Wilson, LaFleur’s first year with Aaron Rodgers, the play calls they regret the most, going out to dinner in their respective cities, and getting pranked by Pete Carroll (6:08). We finish the show by answering a few listener emails and voicemails (56:07). Follow 'Flying Coach' here on Spotify! Email Sean McVay and Peter Schrager your questions at [e-mail]. Or leave us a voicemail and it may be featured in our next episode! [phone]‬ Hosts: Sean McVay and Peter Schrager Guests: Matt LaFleur and Robert Saleh Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, I'm Shay Serrano. And I'm Jinks. We're hosting a new podcast called No Skips. In it, we discuss the most iconic and unskippable albums in hip-hop history. New episodes drop on Thursdays, only on Spotify. All right, episode two, a flying coach. I'm Peter Schrager. I'm joined by Sean McVeigh. We've got two amazing guests up ahead.

We're really excited for this. But Sean, before we get to the guests, let's do a little recap since we last recorded episode one. What have you been up to? Give me a little lowdown. Where were you this weekend? Let's just do a little small talk. What about it? Yeah. So flew back to Atlanta. It was really, you know, to go back to see my high school. I had committed a year ago to go back there. And really, you know, this place, Maris was incredibly special part of my life, special people. It's a special place. I had so many great memories there. This is the Maris School. It's in Dunwoody, Georgia. A lot of, a lot of of, you know, my best friends to this day are guys that I graduated with. We had a lot of great

experiences, great coaches there. And so, you know, they called me last year. So on, we'd like to honor you with a distinguished alumni award. What did you do? You gave a speech? Like, what did you do? Gave a speech. You know, it was more about, hey, you kind of feed off some of the stuff we talked about last week. Have some joy in the journey. Making sure that, you know, you're pouring into people. A couple things. Only one of the few things that really lasts are the relationships you build and surrounding yourselves with the kind of people that make you better, but you make them better as well. And, you know, the kids sure acted like they liked it. Dude, that's how cool for them. I'm glad this guy didn't go on and on all day so we could get

this commencement speech and graduate and go ahead and do our thing and on to the next phase. That's got to be amazing for them. I'm so interested in the seniors who are graduating in the class of 2021. I mean, their last two years were effed. I mean, can you imagine? Can you imagine? imagine remote school, pandemic, not being able to have normal sports. Like, did you get a feel for this class, what they've been through? Can you sense that? Just speaking to them? That was, I mean, that was the theme of the year. And I thought, Maris, when I was listening and kind of getting some insight on how they operated, they did kind of a hybrid approach to try to minimize the numbers where, you know, if it's a Monday through Friday, kids would go Monday, Tuesday, then they'd go virtual

Wednesday, Thursday, and kind of have a half day Friday. It was a pretty thought-out process where they figured it out they navigated through it they won nine state championships they just won the baseball state championship they won the football state championship for the third time last time they had done that you know me and my buddies were uh were able to celebrate that but we won't we relive the glory days but it was about the special people and being back there you know the one thing uh you remember is it is all about the people and merrith was really a special place uh you bring your fiancee with you or you don't veronica comes oh course absolutely is that her The first time, like, walking your high school hall?

I don't even know how, like, if I brought my wife back to my high school, it feels like it's a bizarre, like two worlds collided. Yeah, it was, you know, she's met all my, you know, I still am so close with my buddies. I mean, they'll be in our wedding next year. So she knows all these people. She's had a chance to meet a lot of these coaches, but she had never been over to Maris. And I think she was impressed. And I was impressed.

It was the first time I had been back there in probably 10 years. It brought back a lot of really good memories and it was special to be able to go back there. When you were playing, I know you were. an outstanding high school player, you went to Miami of Ohio, but were you one of these guys that could have gone anywhere? Like, what was the,

where else did you decide between? Yeah, I was, I was recruited as, as an athlete, and then the schools that were running the triple option, you know, the academies I considered going there. But it was, you know,

some of the mid-American schools, you know, I have a family history at Miami of Ohio where I was going to be a third generation, my grandfather, my uncle played there. So I was definitely not a five-star recruit, but I was decent enough

to be able to get a, won a couple, you know, handful of scholarships, but that place felt right. And when I committed there, they were 10th in the country and had done a great job. And Ben Rathlisberger was balling and really putting them on the mat. It's a good segue. Talking about your high school friends. Our two guests today for episode two are two of your best friends. Well, I don't know if Sala is. Like, what's your relationship to Matt LaFleur and Robert Sala for the listeners before we dig in? Yeah. So Matt is definitely, Matt is one of my best friends. And I've gotten to become really close friends with Robert as a result of Matt and Robert's relationship dating back to when they were

graduate assistants together in college. And so, you know, Matt and I first started working together in Washington, going back a handful of years. And, you know, we've remained really close. We obviously spent a year together in LA where he was the offensive coordinator here, did a great job our first year here. He was the guy that I leaned on to really help, you know, set the foundation of a lot of good things that have taken place here. And then I've got to, I know Robert just through the coaching connection, but mainly through his relationship with Matt. Because Matt and I were so close,

and because Matt and Rob were so close, Matt really was the one that kind of brought us all together. And it's special. I'm really happy for both these guys. And they're great leaders, but I think even more importantly, other than being great leaders, great coaches, they're great people.

And I think we'll get a chance to feel that as we talked to them today. Yeah, Robert and Matt, for the listeners, were roommates when they were graduate assistants at Central Michigan. and I think you'll feel their bond. You know what? No further ado, Sean, let's go to the conversation with head coach of the New York Jets, Robert Sala, and head coach of the Green Bay Packers, Matt LaFloor.

Here we go. All right, Sean, let's bring on our first guests of the Flying Coach Season 2 podcast. And we said we're going to bring on friends, but also potential competitors of yours. Yeah, I'm really glad to see these guys, except for when I'm coaching against them. I mean, these guys have done a great job.

I'm really glad. that I only see Robert if it's in that last game. And, you know, fortunately, I've only seen Matt. I'll see Matt next year. But frenemies. No further ado. Let's do it. Head coach of the Green Bay Packers, 26 and 6 over the first two seasons of his NFL head

coaching career. Mr. Matt LaFleur, Matt, welcome to flying coach. Hey, appreciate you guys having me on. This is good. And now let's bring on the second guest. We're going to have four different people on at once. We'll see how this goes. The new head coach of the New York Jets,

the former defensive coordinator of the San Francisco 49ers, Mr. Robert Sala. Robert, what's up? Appreciate you guys, man. I'm pumped to be a part of this. It's awesome. Yeah, I think the best part about this, Peter, is really, you know, these are two genuine friends of mine.

I know you feel the same way. Matt and I go a long way back from working in Washington together. And then I got to know Robert actually through his relationship with Matt. And other than him doing a phenomenal job with the Niners when we played him the last handful of times, I like this, I like seeing this guy a hell of a lot, you know, but. You like him even more now. Hey, it is better in the AFC, you know. Just like I know you feel the same way about having both Rob and your brother, Mike, in the AFC.

we can talk a lot more to each other. There's no doubt. Get them out of the conference and we'll go compete again some of the preseason, just the way we like it. Exactly. I think a good way to start this.

Matt, why don't you tell us how you know Robert and how far your relationship goes back? You want the clean version or the uned-ed-old? Sal and I go back all the way to 2004 Central Michigan University. I was set to be a defensive

quality control. and here comes this big guy in from Michigan State, and they bumped me over to the offense real quick. They wanted him in the door. Really? You know, what I remember when I walked in, me and him shared an office about the size of a closet. Really?

Oh, yeah, we're, I mean, shoulder to shoulder. And we just, I mean, it was a quick connection. Had the same interest and all that stuff. Came roommates and true, rest of history. All right. I mean, become roommates and then what? Because fast forward a few years later, wasn't one of you the best man and the other guy's wedding? Well, unofficial best.

Unofficial. Because our brothers were the official best man. Salo wanted to create headlines. So he told some reporter that. You never know. But no, there was a lot of non-rated G times Maddie and I had. But it was just one of those deals, you know, when you're, When you spend every waking moment with somebody, you live together.

You guys are in the same office together. You guys know how it is. You just create a pond. You get a lot of interest. You get to know about one another. And what was cool was that his family was also in Mount Pleasant. So it got to spend a lot of time with his mom, dad. And obviously, Michael, who's here now as our offensive coordinator, him and his now wife were little high schoolers.

Is that right? Oh, yeah. They were in high school. And when Matt went and played for the Omaha beef and left me by myself in Mount Pleasant for for the summer that Mikey and Lauren were my best buddies. We hung out almost every day, went to ice cream shop down the street. Doozies. What to dozies?

They kicked me out of my apartment a couple of times so they can hang out. So it was good. I love it. All right. So here's a question for you guys. Matt will remember this. So solid. In your first team meeting, okay?

If you were to say, I know you've got all your core values, your philosophy figured out. If you said, I'm a New York jet player and I want to take, I want these guys to be able to say this one thing, what would you have one of them to take from that meeting? For me, it's that model or that model of all gas, no break. I know there's a little contention there, Maddie. I got you. I don't know. You heard it first.

But my definition of it might be a little bit different than most people. I just, I've, it's, you know, you hear it a million different ways. There's that get better mindset, but it's, it's to understand that, you know, these are young men still trying to figure out life too. And, you know, a lot of times we get them mixed up with these adults who have everything figured out when they're just entering the big part of their lives and they're still young and there's still a lot of things that they're trying to accomplish off the field, whether it be personal or whatever it might.

be. But the one thing that they can't lose touch with is the fact that they need to find a way every single day to go to bed better than when they woke up. And that mindset and how you do that from when you wake up to how you eat, how you dress in the morning shower, prepare, rehab, regent, practice, study, all of it. It's all geared towards that mindset. And that's what that whole gas, no break mantra kind of means to us. in terms of you are going to bed better than when you woke up, not only through our help, but through the investment being put back into yourself. I got a question.

I got a question on this one. And Matt, I'm going to get you involved too. But when you were in San Francisco, Robert, you had Richard Sherman, who was a corner who had already been a three-time first-team all-pro, has already been one of the best corners of his generation. You come in, first-year defensive coordinator, and you're preaching all gas, no break. You've got your whole mantra. how do you convince a veteran that, hey, I'm the first year defensive coordinator, but here's my mantra, here's how we're going to operate.

How do you tell him, no, no, here's how we're going to do things? I think with all these guys, and like I said, it doesn't make it right. Everyone's got a different way of doing things. I've just always believed that players have to know that you're in it with them. And it's not a coach's coach, players play, shut the F up, do your job. It's, we're all in this together. We win together. We lose together.

We're locked in arms. And so a player, I've always felt like players, coaches people in general. It doesn't even matter, just people in general life. When you invest in an individual and they feel that investment through personal love and helping them get better and make the plays that they need to make on Sunday in our situation, the player just can't help people, human beings can't help but reciprocate that same investment back into you as an individual. And when there's reciprocation of investment on both sides, it becomes a very personal

transaction. And when something becomes personal, it is very, very hard for those people to allow each other to fail. And so the investment part of it from both of us, from all of us, from a coaching staff, all the way down the players, the investment has to come from both ways. And when it does, like I said, it becomes very personal. And that personal connection is what makes these championship teams special. Matt, you guys went 26 and 6 the past two years, 13 and 3. You two were a first year NFL head coach. You walk into a locker room. with Aaron Rogers and Bakhtiari and all these veteran stars, how did you establish yourself right from Go and say, hey, here's my way, but we're going to work together and do this thing?

I think it's just that. First of all, I think all these guys, you've got to be sincere and you've got to be genuine because these guys are smart guys. And there's a big reason why they've gotten to where they are, because they are smart. And they know how to work on a daily basis. And they know what to believe. And you have got to be true. You've got to. believe what you say, you've got to surround yourself with the right people. And like Robert was talking about, it's a, it's a total team effort from the coaching staff to the support staff to the players all buying into that team concept. And that's what we, we've stressed every day. And thankfully, we've got a great support staff around myself and, and the players just taking the

reins and being a player led team. Because one thing we always kind of talk about is, is the most powerful teams are player led. And you've got to try to empower your guys to step up and take charge. Yeah, I love that. And Matt will remember this because when Matt and I first started, you know, our first year in L.A. and obviously our relationship and how important he is to me and how much I'd lean on him for kind of how we do things.

So our first team meeting, I'm fired up. All right, I'm going through about 30,000 things, okay? And so, you know, I got, I'm playing up about this culture and talking about all this stuff. Hey, here's how we practice. Here's what we want to stand for. Here's what a ram is, all this stuff. So, I mean, I'm throwing a lot of stuff out there. So the next day, Robert, we go to, we have our team meeting.

And I kind of talk to a couple guys. But, you know, I want to say, hey, you got to force some feedback to make sure, you know, it's not just transmitting information. It's making them give it back to you. And so, you know, if you said, you say, oh, gas, no breaks, if I said, okay, there's a couple things that I want us to help us establish and maintain our culture of we not me. And so I'm looking for character and communication. You know, that's what we had talked about. And so it prepped one of our guys.

You know, I say, hey, I'm going to set you up, you know, help me out here. And so I come back and I say, okay, help me, remind me, talk to the guys. What is it? He says, character commitment. And I say, not so much, okay? So then I ask, so then I ask another player, and he's really not getting it. And then, you know, you know, when you get that body language from somebody that they're like, yeah, call on me, I got this. So one of our coaches, I thought, was giving me that body language.

I say, hey, help him out right here. And he's like, I got no idea. Why did you just call on me? So I said, okay, guys. All right, we got three very important people that I asked on this call. So, you know, I come in on Wednesday. I say, this is redemption Wednesday, all right? Next thing you know, every team meeting from that point on, you know what?

You know what you got? Everybody's scrambling, busting out their notebooks, writing stuff down. I had our equipment manager at the time. He says, I'll tell you what, watching you ask those three people the questions. He says, I haven't taken notes since, you know, high school. You've got me taking notes at a team meeting because I don't know if you're going to call on my ass or not. And so, but what I learned about that is, is, hey, let's have some core values, but it's best delivered in bite-sized increments. You know, you get excited about teaching all this kind of stuff.

But, you know, that second day after I had kind of prepped one of our players, a confident player in the secondary, he spit out character and commitment so confidently. I had to think to myself, am I messed up here? What is the answer to this question? But, oh my gosh. All that stuff, though, is it's what you just said, Matt. If it's true to you, these guys feel it. When I've gotten away from those values is really when you start to say, man, I should have been better.

And it's a lot of the things that Matt, you and I were talking about. And I know Robert, you and I have talked a lot about this stuff because we're passionate about it. And we love football and we love pouring into guys and trying to help. them get better and all these things go hand in hand, which I think is the coolest thing for us. Well, how do you handle that? You're going year five now. And so you've got, for us, we believe that it's okay to say the same thing over and over again and have the same message, just deliver it different ways. But the old Dems who don't make stuff up. You know, it's so at year five, how hard is it

or how disciplined do you have to be to maintain your messaging so that way they understand that it's, is it okay to be boring or not boring, but is it okay to keep the same messaging or do you think you have to change it up? Yeah, I think it's important to establish and find those four values and still reiterate them in creative different ways. But really, you know, I'd always talk about communication and in a lot of instances when you're really committed to doing it, you feel really good about the importance of that and how you help get ahead. you're really able to be proactive and not reactive to a lot of the things that inevitably come up in our business, in our roles. And then the times when you say, man, I should have been better.

Usually it's because I didn't communicate well enough. No, it's when I've tried to feel like you have to make stuff up, Rob, is when you get away from those poor values and going into year five, you really look back on year one and some of the things that, you know, the last four years have entailed. And you say, don't get away from those things that you really believe in because that is what. what ends up, you know, expressing itself as you navigate through the ebbs and flows of a season. You know, I be, I'm careful here because obviously we're not trying to make any crazy headlines, but I do just want to put it out there. You know, Robert, your month of April, you had a child, you got a new job, you got a new home, you got a new quarterback, so much going on at once. How did you kind of compartmentalize and try to put it all together? And can you take us through

year month of April because I can't imagine a more wild new beginnings on so many different fronts. Well, first off, my better half is 10 times a person I am. So she's a, oh, wow, major points right there. Seventh kid? No, it's number seventh. And she's the one that lifts us all up over her shoulders. And I mean that. So she's, she's phenomenal in every way. But it's, I don't know, there's, you know, Kube, when I first got the job, Gary Kubey. I was talking to him. on the phone and he said, Rob, the Jeff Fisher, I believe it was Jeff Fisher, when he got his first job, said, hey, no matter what happens, just remember, it'll get done. And so, you know, you write down your, all the things that you need to get done. And, and his voices, his voice is actually been in the back of my mind to this day that don't worry, it's going to get done. This, this, this to do list is going to keep checking off. It's going to get done. And, and you, and you just, you always prioritize the things that need to get. get done today and know that eventually you're going to get caught up and take care of it all. So no panic.

No panic. And yet new quarterback. Can we at least touch on the decision of Zach Wilson and maybe how excited you are to get your hands on him? Just going through the entire process. You know, we first got here and we start on the quarterbacks immediately, obviously, with Sam, who is a talented young man. And I am excited for his opportunity that he has in Carolina. but just going through the entire process,

evaluating the quarterbacks. It was clear to us that there were two young men head and shoulders above everybody. Well, not quite head and shoulders, but you get my point. On your list, yeah. Yeah, on our list. And we just kept going through all the checks

and going through the evaluation process. And it became clear that Zach was worthy of being one of the top two quarterbacks taken in the draft. and once he cleared all those medicals and more discussions were being had, it was just one of those deals that couldn't get passed out. What's he like? Because I see him on this Islander's game during the playoffs, and gosh, the cameras couldn't stop.

I mean, he's a good-looking kid. What's he like as a guy? He's great. He's a good-looking young man. He's he is relentless. He's relentless in his want to learn. He's relentless in film study. He's relentless.

at the details of football that you wouldn't expect out of a rookie. And we're excited for him. You know, he's going to have a lot of ups and downs. We're a young football team. There's going to be some hair pulling moments. But at the same time, you love the intent of the young man. You love the deliberateness of the young man. You love the questions that he asks because they're all, they're smart questions.

They're with purpose. So we're excited to get to work with them and continue to work with him. Rob, if Matt was not the head coach of the Packers and he was a free agent, who would you rather have coaching him? Mike Lafleur or Matt Lafleur? Great question. Oh, man. I can't hire both the Lafleurs.

No, you can't go wrong. You don't have to answer it. You don't have to answer. We know the right answer. You don't have to answer. All right. Hey, big shoes to follow when you just look at the six. success that Matt has had with these

quarterbacks, though, over his coaching career. You almost look at it. It's unbelievable, but I was hoping I'd get a good answer out of you, Rob. You know what? I'll tell you guys, Matt Lafleur's first year as a play caller, it wasn't at Tennessee Titans. It was at Ashland University,

small division two school. And in his first year, what were you guys? Like, one of the top ten offenses in the country went to the playoffs for the first time. He's going to tell you exactly where they were. They were a lot higher than top ten. Go ahead, Matt.

I can't remember. Yeah, you can. But I'll tell you this. Show me a great player. I'll show you a great coach. It's about the players. And if you can get them and, you know, they're talented. You got a chance as a coach.

So who was the quarterback at, who's quarterback at Ashland? A guy by the name of Billy Kundif, not the kicker. Really? A different Billy Kundif? A different Billy Kundif. He was a transfer from Akron. I'm sorry, Yukon. that transferred in. We had actually two transfers. One from Akron, one from Yukon. He transferred in. And no, he was a baller. He actually had a short stint with the bengals. I think it might have been a rookie tryout camp. But no, for Division II guy, again, he was one of the best quarterbacks in the country. Matt, I know we're not going to get into the current state of affairs, but just when you get there to Green Bay and you see Rogers for the first time, I mean, just what is your reaction to seeing that guy

at practice. It's pretty unbelievable. You know, I've been around a few really good quarterbacks, you know, Matt, Matt Ryan, Matt Schaub, guys that were unbelievable throwers, Donovan McNabb. And this guy's something else, man. There's nothing he can't do on the field. And what's equally as impressive is his mind and just the things that he can see that it's just amazing.

There was a clip earlier this year versus Detroit. And I'm always watching the shot clock and I'm watching it going down. And I think we had a motion on a play and they're an all out pressure look. And I'm looking at the clock and it's at five seconds. And he's still talking to the tight end. And the amount of things that he got done in five seconds was mind blowing. Well, I didn't think he was going to get it done. I popped the time out before he could get the ball off.

Of course, he got everything done. He got the ball snap, and it was a premier look that was going to be a little dump off to our tight end. It was going to be wide open. And I'll never forget. He ripped my ass, man. Yeah. So he had it under control. Hey, you talking about that, though.

How about the one sequence when you played Robert on Thursday night, same type of situation. This guy changes his tendency, not a big zero guy in the tight red area. But unless you're playing the Packers, I guess. He did that a couple times a couple years ago. But how about for him to be able to get to the hand signal, extend his cadence out, he gets it, end up drawing a PI right there. But I just thought to myself, you know, you know how exciting that is to see what he just did right there? I mean, that play was unbelievable just watching the command.

It's, Robert, I know you remember that one. First off, it wasn't passive appearance. That was a clean play. That was not passing appearance. But spoken like a true defensive coach. It's never passed interference. You know what stood out to me, though? You can't appreciate it unless you're watching it in person.

Like when we played them this year in the divisional round, I was so impressed just watching. Like when people talk about the game is in slow motion, this is what it looked like in terms of, you know, the command watching our sideline. All we talked about all week, okay? Hey, be ready. if they catch you in a sub and they haven't sub,

he's going to get to the line of scrimmage and he's going to get a free play. I mean, the stats with what he's gotten on free plays down the field is unbelievable. Lo and behold, the first play, I'm saying, you've got to be kidding me! But it was unbelievable. And just the way that he's watching,

the way that everything is going around him, it truly felt like he was just totally present in the moment. He's seeing things. He's using the case. I mean, he's doing all the things that you want to see happen, but I don't think you can appreciate it until you watch it in person that operation. And I'll tell you what, I thought you did an unbelievable job, too, in terms of, you know, you could feel how connected you guys were as a quarterback,

as a quarterback play caller, you know, and I know Aaron alluded to it a lot throughout the course of the season, but there was a lot of times, and I think one of the best things is just that ebb and flow of, hey, you kind of know he's in a good place and we're able to play off with one another. And I really thought you had the same thing going with Fred Warner too, Rob. You know, you could really see like in a totally different light, but the amount of information that you were able to put on Fred and the pressure that you could put on people and those known past downs but still having an identity on the early downs, you know, it's, it was fun to watch, you know, just from both sides of the ball, seeing you guys do your thing,

except for reverse me. goes back Sean great players make great coaches it does you know what we've been we've been fortunate to be around some really great players that you know that's why I know that you see Robert Sala in the in the New York jet seat right here all right so as play callers you know because I do agree you know and I think the one thing that you guys say we know this is a players game you know anytime we're a better coach it's because we've got great players you know one of our former coaches I saw Aubrey recently said

Aaron Donald is the best cornerback in the NFL and you know doesn't you know but but these guys are special players that we've been all fortunate to be around I think what does say something about you guys is those great players play their best when you're helping you know put them in situations and that's what I think you've seen from you guys but what about a moment and I'll start us off here all right when we say as a play caller

it'd you say man was that not a good thing I just did for our players. Okay? So I'll paint this picture and I'll let you guys think about a moment that you said, why the hell did I do that? Okay. So I'm in Washington. It is,

it's my second year call and play. So, you know, Jay Gruden comes in and he, I mean, you talk about a guy that I never appreciated how much he put his arm around me, but he was also very honest with me, which I appreciated too, looking back on it.

And so we're playing at Philadelphia. okay and we had you know Jim Swartz is doing a great job at the defense so we had gone no huddle a couple times on them out of a bunch formation we hit the Sean Jackson verse quarters over the top for a long touchdown unbelievable catch then we ended up running a variation of four verts hit him on a wide and go and so we're up two possessions at at this point so I'm thinking all right leotis mkelvin is definitely not going to squat on a speed out route okay so we go no huddle again, try to present the same look out of a bunch formation. Deshawn Jackson runs a speed out.

Kirk Cousins, back foot hits. He's letting it go on no hitch timing. Leotis McElvin undercuts it, goes to the crib the other way, and cuts it to a one possession game. And Jay Gruden comes on the headset. He says, you know, Sean, I've made some dumb play calls in my life, but that takes the cake. That takes the cake.

We are up to possessions. You want to get cute. and call a speed out right now, and now it's a one possession game. Well, fast forward a couple quarters later. We're going in to try to win the, to ice the game. But it's a situation where, like, it's a debatable situation. You know, we go back and look at the analytics,

but we were running basically like a jet motion toss crack, and Chris Thompson ends up scoring. But in the situation, you know, Jay's like, all right, hey, it's going to come down to, we'd probably be better off, you know, percentage-wise, getting the first down, let McCluck bleed down and then kicking a field goal to win the game because we were down two or something like that and scoring it actually gave Philly a chance. So it kind of told me that late and I didn't get it communicated.

Chris Thompson scores. I'm thinking, oh, shoot. And so Wentz gets a drive going and he's making unbelievable escapes. And, you know, I'm kind of on the edge set up there. You know, and these Philly fans can look up right at you in the coach's booth. I know, Matt, you've been up there with me. And so Jay's on here. He's like, I'm going to kill you, Sean,

if they end up for him right now. And so, thank God, Joe Barry's defense gets a stop. I'm up there. Let's go. I'm leading over to try to talk because these Philly fans are looking up in the box, tell me what an idiot I am. I'm like, you won't look up here now. But that was about as stressful.

You talk about the ebbs and flows during a game. I was exhausted. So, uh, What about a moment that maybe you'd want to have back as a play caller, Matt? What's one of those moments where you're saying? You know, maybe I shouldn't have called the speed out and no huddle when we were up to possessions. You know, that's one that was regrettable for me. I think there's a lot of moments.

But the one I remember the most is when we were playing the Baltimore Ravens when I was in Tennessee. And I think we had just over about 100 yards of offense for the entire game. And my kids are in the stand. and my wife's there and the whole stadium is booing me. Every time our offense goes out on the field, it's just boo after boo after boo. And I'm like, oh, my God, you feel like you just want to stick your head in a hole because you can't avoid it.

And it is what it is. And it was just, it was a really rough day, a very humbling experience. Hey, I felt that way against Baltimore on Monday night a couple years ago, too. And I can promise you that beat down I took was way worse than one. that you did. I don't know, man. We had like literally 100 yards. What was a play that stands out that you're saying?

I mean, I had a chance to get us into a rhythm and I just missed my chance. Oh, I mean, you go back and you second guess every play call. I think, you know, I'm not like you, Sean. Sean's like Rain Man and we all know that. He can remember every play call he's ever made. But yeah, there's a lot of experiences. I feel like every game you go back and you're like, oh my gosh, why did I just call that play?

It happens at least once a game. And I think, you know, we're so critical on our players. I think a lot of times you always got to look back at yourself and make sure that you're doing what's right by them and putting them in the best position to have success. Yeah, no, I totally agree. How about you, Rob? So it's going to be a little bit different on the defensive side,

but I got some funny, funny, funny stories. So my first year, man. It is my first game as a coordinator for Kyle. But wait, is Kyle tough? Is he tough on the headset? No, no, Kyle's great. Kyle's great. He is, but this is really funny.

He is great. He is great. He's great. He's great. He's great. He's tough, but I think we'll have to hold on a discussion. Maybe next segment, next segment. So we're at home.

We're playing the Carolina Panthers. First game is the coordinator, and we're losing. That's 2017. And the game's over. They're in four-minute mode. It's like third and five, if I remember right. And I threw dime on the field. And, or a nickel.

I threw a nickel on the field because they were in 10 personnel. It's like, oh, crap. And I'm looking for time. Because I wanted a time out to get the right personnel on the field. And I can't find Kyle. So I burn the time out. Hey, how mad would you be mad if somebody burned a time out on you? So Kyle, I'm trying to be pretty upset.

That'd be pretty upset, Sean. And Kyle's like, and you. no Kyle. He just running neck. Nostro's flaring and he's like, I've been a coordinator for nine years and I never call the time. And he's just, he's just going eight. He's going eight. And so I get the right personnel group out there. I call the play I want and they run the ball with Cam Newton on power and he gets the first down. I was like, oh shit. He says in my ear the rest of the game. And finally, obviously He couldn't, that was probably my first learning experience. Never call a timeout when you're a defensive.

Hey, Matt, I don't care who you are. That's funny. Yeah, that is funny. What's going to happen next year when, you know, Michael Fleur calls a play, and, you know, he's not feeling good about it, and he pops the time out. How are we going to handle that one? He's in the box, so he's going to have to call it down to me. But offensive guys, you know, I've learned.

I learned in my four years of coordinator that timeouts are not for defensive guys or for offensive. No question. No question. I get just abused for some of the timeouts I've wasted in my time. It just brings up a, oh, it just brings up some bad memories, Rob. I got a question here. I got a question because I think, Matt, you know Sean from a different life when Sean was a coach, an assistant coach, and you were a married man in D.C. Sean was single guy, whatever, but I feel like you're not about to get me in trouble at home.

No, no, don't worry, Sean. I got your back. I got your back. I won't tell any stories. I want to know before he was the boy genius, before he was Rain Man, before all this. Was he crashing on your couch? What was the relationship there and kind of as you were the elder statesman of so to say of this relationship back then in D.C.? Yeah, he was over quite a bit for dinner. He would always cook up dinner for us. And, you know, I had no kids at the time until a couple years into our tenure at Washington. Matter of fact, Sean is the guy that came up with our son's name.

Really? We couldn't think of a name. Oh, yeah. And he said, hey, what about Luke? We're like, oh, Luke LaFleur. You know, we had to talk free into it. But after a while, she came around, and sure enough, we got Luke. I was definitely third wheeling it a lot.

I feel like that they are definitely, Matt's my big brother and Bree's like my big sister. And, you know, she definitely was not afraid to coach me up. That's for sure. You know, and I love it. I love every bit of it. It was, those were special years, though. I mean, I'd walk right across the street and come hang over. And, man, that outdoor area, you know, Matt was, that's a good cook, too.

I mean, I don't know. He'll get out on the grill. he can do some work. I mean, I'm known for just peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. That's about it. Matt can do some good work on a grill. I've seen it firsthand. I've gotten worse. I've gotten worse. Not enough time. Now my wife does, she'll do the ribs and the steaks and everything. So, you know, we get busy now. Robert, have you gotten to meet like the Jets fan yet? And I say that as like a prototype. Like, have you been approached in the supermarket? Like, have you gotten to meet Joe Jets fan? because it is a unique breed, dude.

Oh, they've been great. They've been great so far out in the Jersey area and me and everybody. And I don't think a lot of people know who I am with the Mascam, but some of them. Oh, they know you, buddy. They know you. So far, he said. You're not going, you're not going undercover anywhere, bro. Hey, he's still on the honeymoon stage.

Everything is great. We're zero and zero. We're undefeated. it's been great so far. I've been very receptive. We went out to dinner, Robert and I, in New York City, and I'll tell you, and you could tell me, Robert, if it's not right, no one bothered you, no one even recognized yet, and I told him, I said, this is the last time that's going to be the case. Like, enjoy it, savor it. Matt, Sean, can you guys go out in Green Bay in L.A.? Like, can you just have a normal dinner?

Yeah, I mean, I go out all the time. Everybody here has been really respectful and really great, especially when I'm with my family. I go to a lot of my kids' events and, you know, people leave you alone for the most part. They might say hello and every now and again, you'll get asked to take a pitcher, but that's part of it. That's, that comes with the job. And we've been around some pretty humble people like in this business. I'll never forget the first time being around Mike Shanahan and just seeing how welcoming he was to all the fans. And that was just a good, that was just good for, I think, us to see as young coaches. Just how do you how you handle people and it just it's it's part of this business and you've got to accept it and embrace it.

How much do you pay attention to like the media or the local radio or that stuff? Is it just, I mean, especially now with what's going on, Matt. I mean, do you try to keep a tunnel vision or do you listen to it and kind of keep tabs on who's saying what and what the fans are saying? No, you definitely, you put the blinders up and you go about your business and that's just, at least that's how I operate. matter of fact. I'll never forget a couple years ago when I was in Tennessee.

We came off a big win and just so happened to have sport radio on in my car on my way to work. And they're talking about what a great job our offense did. And I think the next week we went out and laid a nag. And that was a good lesson for me, man. Just don't read your press clippings. Don't listen to all the hype and just try to keep your head down and block out all the noise. Sean, how about you? Well, so I give you, yeah, I've had a lot of mean things said to me if that's what you're wondering.

I went to a Lakers game after we had gone to the Super Bowl. And I'm, you know, I'm with my fiance and we were with another couple. And, you know, we're going out to our car and we were getting ready to go have dinner after the game. and this guy's yelling at me across the street, offensive genius, my, you know what, three points, three points in the Super Bowl? You've got to be kidding me. You're a joke, man. I said, why don't you come over here and say that to my face?

Did you really? Oh, I didn't say that, Peter. Yes, I did say that to him, actually. And you know what? I'm glad that I didn't. I'm glad nothing came of it because, you know what, I had some liquid courage and I was going to be stubborn, too. No, but I've had a lot of people give me a hard time,

but I do remember a time, Peter, that you can probably help me out with this story. When you came to visit, this was before we had coached a game, similar position than what Robert Sal is in, and Aubrey Pleasant, who's now coaching with the Lions, he had found a spot, and me and him and Chris Schuller were going to go to watch the NBA finals. And we were going to go to this supposedly kind of cool spot to check it out. Supposedly. Yeah, it didn't make me feel very cool, that's for sure.

So we get there and, you know, it's like, you know, do they have a spot for us to sit down? So we go basically sit down and, you know, we supposedly had some stuff set up. They're like, we don't give them crap who you are. You know, go sit down. You know, we got bumped. And me and Peter are just right next to one another, just shoulder to shoulder, kind of just hoping to be able to see the TV. Peter with his broad shoulders and he is walking around with ILS, his invisible latch syndrome.

He bumps a waitress, spills the drinks everywhere. 30 shots everywhere all over me. But Matt, you'll remember this. I do, and this will be quick and then we'll keep it moving. But I do remember thinking, all right, hey, here I am this cool guy coming to L.A. You know, you get the Rams job. So we're going to go out to catch this really cool restaurant, you know, that a lot of people go to. And so we went there with a bunch of the coaches, but the whole party wasn't there.

So I'm thinking, you know, when we get there, everybody's going to be excited. Oh, yeah, coach, great to have you, you know, whatever. And, you know, there was, there was something going on, Matt. I can't remember if it was like during the SBs or if it was going on, like, during the Oscars. But there was a lot of people in town. And so I was about as relevant as, you know, I wasn't relevant. You know, that's what I'm going to point out making. So I'm thinking, I'm going to get there and they're going to say, hey, you know, can't

wait to, you know, glad to have you. Welcome to L.A. And, you know, so the nice hostess, they say, hey, you know, Sean McVeigh here, got a party of however many people we had. And I'm thinking they're going to be ready to take good care of us. He said, is your whole party here? I said, no, we're still waiting on a couple people. They said, they go sit up at the bar and call and we'll, we'll seat you when you get your whole party. And until then, well, the next person walks up, you know, Floyd Mayweather, he comes right up afterwards. And I don't think he had to wait until his whole party got there. They sat him down.

But they take great care of us. But yes, there's many moments, Peter, that whether people recognize you to say some mean stuff or they say, I don't know who the hell this guy is. That looks like a little kid. Well, let's be honest. That wouldn't happen anymore, Sean. Guaranteed, you'd be seated. They're very, they take good care of us now.

But that was a funny story. Sean and I went to dinner at Benny Hanna once in Encino or something. I mean, this guy, don't get a twisted. It's not catch LA every single time we go out. Benihana is a phenomenal place. Phenomenal place. Hey, listen, you want to leave with a full stomach feeling good. Get that volcano.

You want to Benaughian. The Emperor's Feast. You want to calm seven kids down. You go to Penny Hanas and go to Penny Hanas and just want to get mesmerized by the chef. Hey, say, hey, when was the last visit you made to Betty Hana? Sounds like it was pretty recent. Yeah, about a month ago. Matt, give us a good story about you and Sean and coaching together.

Oh, about me and Sean coaching together? Well, the best story that I have about us coaching together is we're out of a walk through. And Sean and I would, we like to challenge each other all the time. And that's one of my best friends. So I obviously would always. respect the position because you have to do that, especially in front of everybody else, but you were never afraid to have honest conversation with them. And so we got into an argument out on the field and one of the other coaches got involved and I kind of felt like it was

kind of a tag team on myself. And so I walked into his office afterwards and I was just, I was pretty upset. I was, I was pretty pissed. And needless to say, I said, hey, Sean. with all due respect, why don't you just fire me right now? And he looked at me and he got it, he got on me pretty good to start off. And then about, I don't know, a few seconds later, he's like, you know what, you're right. I'm miserable. I can't stand this job. I'm like, hey, no, you can't say that.

You're the head coach. And, yeah, we ended up hugging. it out right afterwards. But that's the nature of our business. And that's a lot of stuff that happens on a daily basis behind the scenes that nobody sees. And sometimes you have to go through those moments to really come out the other end of it and be better for it. So, but I'll always appreciate that about Sean is, you know, being able to go on the head coach's office and tell him whether he wants to hear it or not. I know I appreciate that when guys come tell me things as well. And sometimes I agree with them and sometimes I rip their ass for it.

Well, hey, I will say this, though, it doesn't make it right, but it's almost kind of like when you're so close to somebody, you're taking on a role that has a lot more stress and responsibility. And unfortunately, whether it definitely is the wrong thing. But Matt's one of my best friends, which is why he was so good and why I appreciated him being so honest and being able to tell me what I needed to hear, not what I wanted to hear. Well, And then you end up being so comfortable. And sometimes you can be, you know, not the best version of yourself and your responses as a result of our comfort level.

And so he was not out of line. You know, I actually, when you reflect back on it, you're saying, you know, Matt, I'm sorry, I should have been better. You know, I hate this. I hate who I've become. I'm not proud of myself. You know, you're right. I think I don't know if this is for me.

Oh, wait a minute. You know, it was the ultimate. reverse psychology that I tried. But no, it was, we had, I mean, if we had recordings, I can't even remember because, you know, everything you say, I tell guys on the headset, hey, guys, I can always promise to apologize, but I can't promise it won't happen again. Yeah. And there is so many times because Matt and I would be the ones that we were communicating

so consistently throughout the course of the game. And, you know, I think he actually liked to fire me up, though. He would intentionally try to get me pissed off. And, you know, maybe it had a good effect. I don't know. But we had some good times. Needless to say, we made it through that moment. And here we are now with you, Peter, and Robert.

Yeah, that's awesome. I'll tell you what, just don't mess up the personnel for Sean. There's nothing that would get him more hot than missing the defensive personnel. So whoever is your personnel guy out there. It's a thankless job, man. It's a thankless job. I mean, you know, Andy Dickerson has done a great job the last couple of years.

We'll see who draws the short end of the stick now. That was good shit. I love it. Well, the other one I had was on Peter when Pete Carroll. Yeah. Do you remember that? No,

that's, I can tell, Matt, that wasn't the story you were talking about. Remember the Pete Carroll story, Peter? Yeah, I know. No, this is good.

I want to see Peter get in on this. I just remember before that game, we're playing the Seattle Seahawks at Atlanta Falcons Seattle Seahawks 2016 in the playoffs And what are you? You're with it You're with Atlanta right?

I was with Atlanta Peter comes running across the field And all of a sudden I see Pete Carroll yell at him Hey, I know what you said Yep And Peter got white as a ghost You're a pretty white guy anyways

But you got white as a ghost And oh man you couldn't You were at a loss for words Hey, hey, he shit himself, didn't he? Yeah, I did because it's before the NFL playoff game. It's my first NFL playoff game on the sidelines. And Pete Carroll's shouting at me. And I have no relationship with Pete Carroll previous to this.

None. I know what you said. And, you know, I'm on a television show three hours a day talking shit about all these teams. I have no idea what he's alluding to. And then he gives me a hug and says, I'm just kidding with you. And I'm like, what my God. What a bad joke. I don't even, but like, who is the joke?

Dude. It was a great joke. John Lynch loved it. Lynch and Burkart were the broadcast guys, and they're sitting at the middle of the field, and they're dying laughing. And to this day, I have no idea what was going through Pete Carroll's mind. But Maddie, you saw it. And I mean, everyone saw it.

He was shouting at me from the goal line to the 50-yard line. I know what you said. Hugs me. I'm just messing with you. I have no idea. Hey, good thing you didn't say, coach, I'm sorry about saying this. And you end up admitting to guilt when you didn't have anything to be guilty. Of course.

I don't think you should retire, Coach. I didn't mean what I said. I don't think you should be out of the game. I know. Somebody had to put him up to it. Absolutely. I think it was probably John Schneider, but he never,

no one fessed up. So to this day, it's still a, still a conundrum. That is outstanding. That's a good one. I remember you telling me about that, man. I forgot about that one.

That's a good one. Coach Carroll, he totally punked you. Of course he did. I love his white sneakers that Sean wears, too. He rocks. He rocks.

He rocks. those like sneakers. I got nothing. All right, we're going to wrap it here. I know you guys have places to be. We can't appreciate it more. In closing, because we always like to end it here with the guests. Robert, your one message to a young coach,

whether it be a college coach right now, a high school coach or a Pop Warner coach, your one message to the guy who wants to get into this profession and is diving in head first. Squeaky will gets to grease. This is a very, very hard. profession to get into everybody for every job that's open there's 100,000 resumes and and to continue to build relationships, continue to make connections and and continue to keep knocking

on doors and as soon as the team allows you to put your foot in the door, it's your responsibility to blow that thing open. So squeaky will get some grease. Matt, what about you, bud? Yeah, I think whatever your role, whatever your job, you own that, do the best job possible. I think for a lot of us, I know I'm speaking for myself here, I don't think anybody really gets into this profession to be an NFL head coach or to, at least I did. My dad was a Min American conference coach. I was just trying to get to the Mac. My goal was to get to the Mac before I was 30. And I just think if you take pride in what you do and you own the job that you do and do the best job that you can, somebody's going to notice.

good things are going to happen to you. And so you just keep your head down and work as hard as you can and just do the best job you can. But I also think it's important to surround yourself with great people. And there's a big reason I'm sitting right here. And it's because of these two guys, you know, Robert and Sean, I know I would not be sitting here right now if it weren't for either one of these guys. Robert got me into the league as when he was a quality control coach for the Houston Texans was pounding the table for me. and, you know, shoot, Sean gave me an opportunity as a coordinator, although I wasn't the play caller.

I mean, it was still a big step up in my career and one that I needed to take. And, you know, so I've been very fortunate to be around two of my best friends in life. That's awesome. Appreciate your, bud. Yeah, you guys, yeah, no, shoot, I appreciate all you guys on this call. And the same thing that you're saying, Matt, I feel the same way about both you guys, even though we've kind of never worked together, Rob. You know, I feel like with the connections and conversations we've had over the years

of the time that we all spend together, we're always kind of pouring into each other, and that's what it's about. Like you said, a couple years ago, there's enough good stuff to go around for everybody. Enough pie for everyone, brother. All right, boys. Thank you so much for joining us. Go coach your quarterbacks and go coach your defenses and go enjoy the rest of your offseason. I appreciate it, and I know Sean does.

Thanks so much for coming on, guys. Thank you. That was great. Appreciate it, guys. It's good. It's good. Love you guys. Beautiful.

Love you too, brother. Salah and LaFleur are great. We're going to try to bring on guests like that every single episode. We only get 10 of them. That was the episode too. But as part of this podcast, Sean, we also want to open it up to the listeners. And a lot of these listeners are not only young NFL fans, but it's also aspiring coaches, aspiring entrepreneurs, aspiring sports media folk. And our producer, Chris,

who's going to come on now. Craig, what's up, big guy? How's it going, guys? All right. So let's talk about Craig Horelbeck a little bit. Sean, you and I couldn't possibly figure out how to do this together. I'm in New York. You're in L.A. without Craig's input and guidance.

And he's been an outstanding producer, just even launching this thing. He is definitely the man. He came and got everything set up. And you can see why the success speaks for itself with everything he's been involved in. So I think he embodies urgent and joy. I also think we'd like to include him in this final segment every single episode. It's called the emails and the voicemails. We'll probably have to come up with a better tagline for it.

I mean, did you just think of that on the spot? Yeah, you definitely thought that way. It has a ring to it. You did that kind of delayed, lay it out as you were thinking of like, what the heck am I going to say right now? That was, you know what? You are the man. That was a rough moment right there. Yeah, you know, Jerry Springer had the final thought.

But David Letterman had the top 10. Mine is the emails and the voicemails. Well, we'll see if the actual questions are better than your naming of this segment. I think we've got a name now. The emails and the voice. Craig, why don't you read a couple to us? We opened it up to the listeners. And Craig, how can they send them in for next episode?

Yeah, so you can email us at Flyingcoach podcast at gmail.com. Or you can send a voicemail, which we will get to one at the end of this show. you can send a voicemail to the number in this podcast's description. You just call it, leave a brief message, and you're good to go. Now, I hope these questions are screened just like the fan mail that just buries me sometimes. I'm going to say, Sean, Sean nor I have seen these yet, but Craig has, and he has apparently filtered through dozens of them. Hopefully we'll get to thousands and millions, but Craig, have at it, bro. First email. What do you got? All right, this first one's from Matt, and I encourage you guys, tell us where you're from. Matt didn't say where he's from Matt.

but this is from Matt. Coach McVeigh, what is something you used to believe about building a team or culture, maybe as an assistant, as you were starting to think about becoming a head coach or early on with the Rams,

that you no longer believe or practice today. As a young college coach, I appreciate you guys doing the pod. Love it. Oh, that is, that's a good question. And, you know, I would say this,

I've had so many great examples that there was a lot of things that I've seen what it should look like. But I think as a young leader, especially, I used to believe that you have to have all the answers to be a great leader. And I now know that there's strength and vulnerability.

You know, you don't have to have all the answers. It sometimes is great to be able to say, you know what, I don't know, but I'm going to surround myself with people that have the experiences or the answers. And if I don't have it, I'm not going to fake it. I'm going to figure it out. And then we're going to try to get back to you. But I think more than anything, there's this narrative that leadership means that you are

all knowing and you have answers to everything. And, you know, that just isn't the case. and I think one of the things that's been helped was surrounding yourself with people that might have those answers. And if you don't have it, you know, that doesn't mean anything, you know, that doesn't take away from anything as long as you figure out, let's have a solution-oriented approach and try to figure out that answer. But don't make stuff up. What you got, Craig? Email too. I love that.

All right. Next one's from Harry. He says, love the first show. Sean, can you please describe what a typical week of preparation for a game is? And Peter, can you please also describe what it takes to prepare for. typical show. Go ahead, Peter. Why don't you start off from your end?

All right, so ours is daily. So I wake up around 4.30 a.m. every morning on the East Coast, and we get on a.m. We get on a.m. and we used to do it in person before COVID and all this. And the four hosts, which is myself, K. Adams, Kyle Brandt, and Nate Burleson, we'll go through the show with producers. And one of the key things is, don't show all your cards. One of the magical things that I learned working on inside the NFL for years with Chris Collinsworth and Phil Sims and James Brown was that you don't tell them exactly what you're going to say. You just kind of give them the broad strokes. So for example, if we're going to be talking about Julio Jones

and the topic is, what do you make of Julio? I'll just say, hey, get some Julio footage of him in big games for me. And then I can fill my thoughts and then Berluson might come out and say, hey let me get a screen that shows all the veteran wide receivers traded in the last three years who've had the best seasons so he'll get like Stefan Diggs or D'Andre Hopkins or whatever and we don't tell each other what we're going to say but we kind of know what we're going to be saying ourselves we go through the show for about an hour then we do a three-hour show and then the rest of the day we're answering emails we're getting into it and then it's almost like all right you're getting psyched up for the next day it is an ongoing cycle and then by eight o'clock nine o'clock we

know the broad strokes of what we're going to talk about. We kind of fill in the holes, but we are in constant communication with each other and with the producers. And it's, there's really not much time to relish on the past show. And I think it's kind of similar to what a cornerback or what a head coach would say about a game in an NFL season, you're on to the next. And our show is pretty fluid. But as far as preparation goes, it's all day. But it's, it's not showing the other host what you're going to say. Because that spontaneity, it's what makes Barclay and Shaq so good together. It's what makes Strayhan and Jimmy and Howie and Terry so good together.

And hopefully it's what makes our show special. If we knew what the other person was going to say, it would be too scripted and you at home would know. So you prepare your ass off, but you don't show your cards to the other hosts. That's good. Very similar to us. You know, you kind of have a weekly rhythm that you try to establish. But after the game finishes up, let's just say on Sunday, Monday involves, all right, making the corrections from the previous days game going through. it with, you know, offense, defense, special teams.

Our players come in, they get a lift in, and we go through any of those game corrections, and then we'll kind of introduce them to the personnel for the upcoming opponent. Tuesday serves as the players day off, which really ends up being the heaviest game planning day for us as coaches, where you're kind of putting in what we refer to as our kind of normal down and distance calls. You know, the game plan that revolves around your first and your second down and, you know, one to seven type of calls. Sometimes you'll get into some of your second and long calls.

And that takes up a good portion of it. And then we try to get started on the third down preparation. The main days of prep with our players is Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. Wednesday, we're focusing on our first and second down plans. And then you go through, you practice, get the guys out of the building. And then you come in the next morning and you make any sort of practice corrections. and then you really go into the third down and some of our situational stuff with the two minute. And really, that's all third downs, any sort of short yardage type of situations.

And then Friday ends up being your red zone day. And we get any sort of situational calls, kind of those end of the half, end of the game. But really you're saying Wednesday's first and second down with our players where we have a good practice. Thursday is the heaviest day of practice where it's still first and second down. Then you're focusing on some of your second down and long calls, your third down, preparation. We'll get some two minutes spliced in there, get the players out of the building, and then we game plan the red zone, come in on Friday morning through the red zone, any of those type of special situations that can come up that you want to make sure that you're

on the screws with. Saturday, you're kind of tying it all together, and then Sunday, you roll it out there and you go play. But that's in a kind of quick overview of how we put the game playing together. But the main days of preparation with our players are Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, and kind of do it on a three-day workload where, you know, the first day is usually kind of that intro, the second day that Thursday ends up being our heaviest work day of the week. And then we kind of try to delode our players on Friday to go, you know, we say fast Friday where we get them, get them in, get them out, get them off their legs. And then Saturdays will walk through. And Sunday, hopefully they're peaking.

Naive question for me. I'm going to follow up. When you always hear that the first 15 plays are scripted, what does that mean? Yeah. So those really end up being, you know, kind of your priority calls in your normal down and distance, Peter, you know, because everything is, is usually a result of situations dictate some of your play calls. So if you go right through your first 15, that's usually reflective of if you're going right down the list, that means you're extremely efficient, you know, I think the best play callers too, and I think a lot of these guys would tell you the same, they have a good feel for the flow of it. Those are more priority calls that you want to be able to get to. But those different situations, third downs, get back on track,

you're in those second down and longs, and then you get into the red area. You know, those are separate parts of the game plan, but usually those first 15, at least for the places that I've been and where, you know, the really great coaches I've been around, that's reflective of, you know, stuff you want to make sure that you don't leave that game not getting to. There's been times where we've been really in a good rhythm, but you only get 60 shots and, you know, you might only have 30 normal down-and-distance calls. And so you might get to that 15th play on that script to start the second half.

You know, I know Kyle does a little bit more than that. You know, Matt, Kyle and I and a lot of the other really good coaches I've been around, Coach Gruden, take a very similar approach. But that's usually just reflective of, you know, those normal down and distance when you can kind of present 50-50 run-pass scenarios. Email three. What do we got, Craig? All right. This is from Keith. Hey, guys, great first episode. I would love to know more about Sean's high school career and how he beat out Megatron, aka Calvin Johnson, for high school player of the year in his state of Georgia. What was he like as a quarterback? Are we talking Julian Edelman? I know you're modest,

but what fascinates me, it fascinates me that you were such a good athlete. I don't know whether to be offended about that though. Chief. Yeah. What do you mean? But you know what I was, here's what I really believe. I was a solid high school football player that was on a state championship team and I was the quarterback. And so like anything else, you know, when good things happen, get some credit. I think my dad found the way to be on the voting committee for that. Is that right? I mean, not really, but it might not say it wouldn't shock me.

I mean, there was, let's put it this way, okay? I might have won player of the year. There was never a debate on who was a better player, okay? I just happened to be the quarterback on the state championship team. There was never a doubt that this guy was the five-star top recruit in the country, offers from everywhere, everywhere I wanted him. I'll tell you who else was an unbelievable recruit. that was a way better player than me as well in high school was Thomas Brown, our assistant

head coach. He played at Georgia, started as a true freshman. I was joking with Stafford that we have two guys that he played with on our coaching staff. Thomas Brown was his running back when he started as a true freshman and Nick Jones was his center. I said, you're getting old, man. Yeah. But no, there was no debate. Calvin Johnson, who is now going into the Hall of Fame and I've been coaching, no debate on who is a better player. I just got the award for being on the best team. modest. Did you think you were going pro when you won that award? Did you ever think I'll be in the pros? I expected to have a good college career. I think you're going to compete, but I always knew I wanted to be involved in football, but to say that I didn't have a realistic

expectation that probably, you know, playing was not going to be the way that you made you live in. I had a realistic understanding of that. I'm not trying to get too into it, but like in the championship game, Sean, you would you ran for 140 and had three rushing touchdowns? Like you were a dynamic high school quarterback. Don't be modest, dude. Okay, listen, go to a high school game and then watch the difference of the speed and the athletic at high school compared to this.

This is, I was a solid high school player on a really damn good team. There was never, hey, listen, and I'm not being modest. You know, I would tell you the truth, but we're talking about a guy that's a first ballot Hall of Famer whose nickname in the NFL is Megatron.

And I'm, my nickname is Mini Me. So, I mean, we're talking about two. It's disrespectful to even mention that. I almost roll my eyes on that one. Calvin's the man. Last one here. This is going to be a voicemail. So play it right now.

You guys, check the number in the pod description. You can call in. All right. Here we go. This is Eric, a lifelong Rams fan from Salt Lake City, Utah, and a 2021 season ticket member of the Rams. Go Rams. So my question is, first, do you believe in the value of failing fast or that failure can be good?

And second, how have each of you benefited from it? And third, how do you ensure to build into what you do the allowance of self and others to fail fast and use it to ultimately drive down that path of success over time or consistency? see. Thanks again, guys. Go Rams. Awesome. I love it. Do you want me to go first, Peter? Of course, dude. Go first, yeah. I do believe in that. I think the important thing I believe in is building safety amongst people to feel comfortable and failing. You know, that's one of the things I think is really important is, hey, how can we build safety in the atmosphere and the environment where people

feel comfortable to shoot their shot? And then if we do fail, let's use it as a learning op to be able to move forward, not something that deters us or takes away from our confidence. So yes, some of those setbacks have been the biggest, you know, learning lessons for me in the short amount of time, but just really in general. You know, one of my favorite questions I like to ask people is, what's the biggest adversity you've faced and how did they respond from it? Because inevitably, you're going to go through that. And if things are always good, that's easy. But when things are bad is when I think people truly separate themselves. And so I do believe in that. I think those failures can be the best setups to learn.

from, and I think the important thing for us in leadership positions is to build safety amongst the people that you're working with so that people have a confidence in, hey, I'm going to try different things. You hear about all these great cultures, you know, and I think there's a, there's a safety that's built in that culture that people feel comfortable to put themselves out on a limb and really take a chance. And if it doesn't work out, we're learning from it. We're not letting it take away from the confidence that we've already established. Yeah, I'd love that answer. And I think with my career, and I think a lot of people in my industry, like my entire 20s are kind of a wash as far as if you look at what I accomplished and what I did, it was one swing and a miss after another. I mean, I literally had full-time jobs. I worked at a hospital full-time preparing message points for physicians while I was freelance writing for Fox Sports.com at a college. I worked at a PR agency at one point, like assisting with their sports work. And then, you know, if they were working, working with an athlete, like how we can message with the...

While all the same time, I was freelance writing and trying to get any writing gig I could, it didn't really click until Victor Cruz gave me a real shot and asked me to write his book with him in the early 2010 after he had his breakout season and was like, you know, I want you to write my autobiography with me and it was a bestseller and it helped open doors. But gosh, the amount of different publications I wrote for, the free Metro Subway newspaper that would literally pay me $25 an article, and I would write one every week and thought it was the biggest deal.

The amount of emails that I probably sent to NFL teams, to executives at networks, to editors at newspapers that just went unanswered. And I guess I was almost too naive to think, okay, you're embarrassing yourself here. I just kept on shooting my shot, and eventually things started clicking, and I think that hard work paid off.

But I'll never forget the guys that used to respect, to me, I used to send Jim Nance emails when he was the lead voice on CBS of the Masters, the Final Four, football, everything. And I would send Jim Nance an email and be like, hey, here's an article I wrote for Askmen.com. I would love for you to give it a read. It's about the top five moments in Houston sports history. And he would respond. And like you never forget that. You never forget that stuff. So names like Jacob Olman from Fox who would listen to my nonsense takes on local sports radio if I would clip it off and send it to them

and would give me advice, you never forget those early guys and gals who gave a shot. And then you also never forget the people at certain radio networks, people at certain sports websites, the people at certain sports networks who never responded at all

or just blew you off when you introduced yourself in person. And you have your list. And I think the key is to go through all that in your 20s or your 30s or whenever you really want to go for it. And then remember, remember, just keep your eye on the prize. And if you do the hard work and you're not an asshole and you're a good person, things usually do work out. And I think that's my lesson. So if you consider it

failure not getting that job early on, I suffered that a lot. And then in the end, I'd like to think that all those years and all those shortcomings and all those failures actually made me stronger and ready for the moment when I was ready for it. Build up your resilience. That's great. That's awesome. That's it. That's all. I love it. Craig, why don't you tell them? once again, where they can send the email and then we'll wrap this thing up. Yeah, Flying Coach Podcast at gmail.com. It's also, it'll be in the pod description. If you're on a run right now or at the store, you can't write it down.

And the phone number is in the pod description as well. You can send us a voicemail. And I would encourage everyone. Just email Jim Nance, everything you've ever written. And I assure you he'll respond. All right, everybody. So subscribe on Spotify. We got great feedback from the first episode.

Keep it coming. Negative, positive, everything. We like to be coached. It's Flying Coach. All right, Sean, break it up like you did last week. Give me some jeezy. I can't, man. The way I left it, I just was embarrassed.

No, that was almost as bad as taking my shirt off on hard knocks. I like that. All right, boys. We'll see you all next week.