The Ringer NFL Show - Matthew Stafford’s LA Future, the $40M Backup Plan, and a “Tush Push” Ban?!

Episode Date: February 26, 2025

From Radio Row at the NFL Combine, The Ringer’s Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz sit down in-person to discuss five burning offseason topics: How Matthew Stafford fits into the Rams’ future plans, the Packers’ secret efforts to ban the “tush push,” the ongoing standoff between Kirk Cousins and the Falcons, pessimistic feelings surrounding the 2025 NFL Draft class, and Khalil Shakir’s underwhelming new deal with the Bills. CHAPTERS: Ad breaks (00:00) Matthew Stafford’s future (01:02) A “tush push” ban (12:41) Kirk Cousins vs. the Falcons (18:52) The weak 2025 NFL Draft (27:45) Khalil Shakir’s new deal (37:38) Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Producer: Troy Farkas Additional Production Support: Jake Loskutoff, Nikola Stanjevich and Daniel Comer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode of The Ringer NFL show is presented by State Farm. Bring home a win with an affordable price when you bundle home and auto with the personal price plan. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, state farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. This is Bill Simmons, and I want to tell you about my movie podcast, the rewatchables.

We're each week. I'm joined by Ringer movie lovers. Chris Ryan, Sean Venetcy, Van Lathen, Kyle Brandt, Matley Rubin, we have a whole bunch of people on. We talk about movies. We can't stop rewatching. And now you can watch us cover these movies on video in the Spotify app. We have covered over 350 movies, including Heat, Goodfellas, Boogie Nights, Pulp Fiction.

We have some real heavy hitters coming up here in 2025. Make sure to follow us on Spotify where you can watch every new episode right now. Just head to the rewatchables on Spotify. now on video. Hello and welcome to The Ringer NFL show. I am Nora Prenziotti and I am here in Indianapolis at the combine with Stephen Ries. Stephen, hello from the Indianapolis Convention Center.

How is it going? It's electric in here. I can't feel it. It's radiating through my soul. Can't you? Yeah, I really can. I really can. It's good to be back.

When you sat down, there was like a little shock, like you know, like a little static shock. It was the energy. I'm wearing a very thick wool sweater. That makes more sense. I accidentally do a little bit of a snapcrackle and pop thing. So what we are going to do today is we're going to go through five stories that, you know, they're making the rounds. They're all the buzz and indie.

It's what people are talking about. It's stuff that's on our mind. And let's just get it started. Let's start with Matt Stafford, who seems like sort of the biggest name with an undetermined future. Stafford and the Rams are sort of figuring out whether or not they're going to stay together for next season. Peter Schrager reported that during the Super Bowl week, the Rams gave Stafford and his agents permission to not seek a trade, but make some calls, test the market.

See what the good old market value is. And it seems as though the answers that they've gotten so far from doing that are pretty good. And put Stafford in the conversation to be one of nine quarterbacks who's over 50 million a year, which is more than he's making for the Rams. Where are you feeling right now about where this ends up? I think he ends up in Los Angeles just because of the fact that he is a top 10 quarterback at this point. Like even the last we saw of him, playing in the cold, in the snow against the best defense in

the NFL, a defense that made Patrick Mahomes look like one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL. True. And he looked like the best quarterback on the field that day. And I feel like there are a handful of teams that are not hiding the fact that they are desperate for a quarterback this year. the Steelers, the Giants. I think the Giants said we're going to look under every rock for the quarterback.

Maybe that's their problem. They've been looking under rocks for quarterbacks. That's where you find a Tommy DeVito. It was very funny because Joe Shane was at his doing his press conference. And everybody was asking questions that were basically like, are you interested in Matthew Stafford? Are you interested in Matthew Stafford? Are you interested in Matthew Stafford?

And he can't answer the question. So all of the questions are being phrased and rephrased in all of these different ways where it's like, are you interested in a quarterback in his late 30s? Are you interested in a veteran quarterback who's won a Super Bowl? Are you interested at like, and every single time? Yeah. The history in the Detroit metropolitan area. I had a Joe Shane quote just because I thought it was like very telling.

He was like, he got asked about Sabard. He said, yeah, you'd have to ask the Rams about that. Ask the Rams and talk to them about that. He's under contract for them. So that would be a question for the Rams. He said Rams four times. So many times. There was a real nervous.

energy to that because again, every time you got one of these questions, he would be like, we're going to look at literally everything. We are so desperate right now. But it does seem like I'm, I'm interested in why you think the Rams are ultimately going to get this done and what that says about what Sean McVay in particular sort of wants for the 2025 season. Because I will say, it seems like the Rams general vibe has been one of reluctance to pay Matthew Stafford a lot more money. And I would say that the general vibe you're getting for Matthew Stafford's camp is that his priority is to be paid a bit more money than he is currently being paid.

He wants $50 million. I think he's made it very clear. The one thing that I will say is when Sean McBey has talked about this, he was on Andrew Whitworth, Brian Fitzpatrick podcast. He was like, we want him as our quarterback. But he also is like, but there's money, age, injury and all that. when you hear another team talk about their franchise quarterback and paying him, they don't say that stuff. They go, no, we're going to get a deal done and it's going to be done.

They don't go, oh, like Joe Burrow, oh, he's been hurt a couple times. The Bengals never said that. Right. The charges were never like, Justin Herbert hasn't won a playoff game. They don't say that. With McVeigh on a podcast, he brought that stuff up. So I think they're willing to play hardball. I just think at a certain point in March, if this is still going on,

they're just going to give it. Because what are you going to do? That's the next question. What do you do? What are you going to do from the Rams perspective? Okay. How likely do you think it is that Sean McVey actually feels fairly comfortable going into next year with Jimmy Garoppel? Who they'd have to make a deal with, but who would probably be amenable to making a deal with a coach who is a reputation for making quarterbacks like Jimmy Garoppel look great.

And he's the type of quarterback that would look great. Like I've heard Justin Fields be brought up. I don't think Justin Fields works in a Shaw McMay offense. I know the Sean McVeigh offense is supposed to work for every quarterback, but you need kind of the, I don't know how to put this without being me, like the brainless quarterback, the avatar on the field. Basically, Sean McVeigh is playing Madden with the controller and Jimmy Garoflo is his quarterback. I think there's a part of Sean McVeigh after these, what is it,

in three, four years with Stafford, that wants to go back to the good old things, where you had a quarterback like that. It is like both he and Shanahan do this thing where they really can't decide what they actually want. Like they do the waffle where they're like, no, actually, we can't do the paint. by numbers thing anymore. Like we need someone who, when it's third and long, is going to be able to make a play. And then they do that for a while.

And then they're like, actually, you know what I want? Right, right. It's a play action automaton. And it seems like that's where the pendulum is with this one. Especially where the season went in the NFC this past year, where I feel like the teams of the NFC that did really well, where like the system teams, like our quarterback's not necessarily the horse pulling the card.

And during that conference, they lost to those teams. He lost to the Eagles. they beat the Vikings, but that was another setup where the quarterback is obviously elevated. So I think it's like just in their face. And the other coaches in their coaching tree have also had this. They've had the quarterback that's more of the on-field avatar. And it's working. It's working in the league right now.

The piece that I think is sneaky complicated from the other side of a potential deal, not the ram's side, is what the trade compensation would be. Because 50 million sounds like a big number. It sounds like a big number for a quarterback who I think can still play at a very high level, but does carry a fair amount of injury risk. But you assume that it's a short-term thing. And there's a handful of quarterbacks out there who I think Matthew Stafford is better right now than some of them who make that kind of money. So I don't actually think it's the contract.

I think the Rams, in their case, there are some hang up. about how they structure their contracts and if they're going to add more years and if what Stafford wants right now lines up with their overall roster building timeline. But I do think that there are teams out there like the Giants, like potentially the Steelers, maybe even the Browns, certainly the Raiders are looking for a quarterback, where the 50 million is not the sticking point. But three of the four teams that I just mentioned, their first round picks are in the top 10. That's a good point. I have a hard time seeing even like the giants who seem to be like,

we need a quarterback. Yeah. I just have a hard time seeing them giving up a top 10 pick plus the money for someone who might be like the best possible version of a bridge quarterback, but is a bridge. And then if it's not that first round pick, what is it and does that get it done with Los Angeles? Yeah, that's a good question.

And I also think the other element of this is we don't really know what Sean McVey would want in his next quarterback and how he would go about getting that quarterback. Like we ascribe these things to these guys like Kyle and Sean McVey were like, oh, they don't need a quarterback. They want a brainless guy. But we don't know. We don't know that for a fact. So like that's the part I want to see about it. But I do think the draft compensation in this draft in particular with a top five that isn't full of like blue chip obvious prospects. Like we're going to talk about this later.

but it's not like the place you want to be at this point. And I wonder, like, are the Rans interested in the top five pick? I know they wouldn't get one for Stafford, obviously, but in an ideal world. Do they even want to be in the top five in this draft? This isn't a team that values first round picks. Right, right. Yeah, that's the part that I think is hard to sort of do the math on. The other, the piece of this that to me seems impossible, but tell me if I'm wrong,

is you do hear names like, like Aaron Rogers, like even Kirk Cousins, sort of the other veterans who are moving chess pieces this off season, brought up as maybe there's a sort of a three-team movement kind of situation. I feel like that to the extent that there's an impasse between the Rams and Stafford, it has to do with the fact that, you know, outside of the quarterback position, Los Angeles has become this very young team, and they're sort of trying to rebuild and build for the future. And at a certain point, you probably want to cut bait with the old guy who has long injury history.

If that's where you are, even if it's less money, I find it very hard to believe that someone like Aaron Rogers makes sense. No, I totally agree with you. Especially when the concern is, like you said, it's not can he play in regard to Stafford? Yeah. Will he play? How many games will he play? With Aaron Rogers, I feel like that question is. just as just it's pressing.

Okay. I'm glad you. This is just like a gut check for me because I've heard that rumor and it just seems. It makes no sense. Alex Van Pelt is on the ramp staff out and that's where the connection is. Alex Van Pelt was very famously one of Aaron Rogers guys. Right. If we saw like Jake Cumerow in a RAM shirt, we would be like, oh, it's happening. But that current flows one direction generally is that Aaron Rogers brings the Aaron Rogers guys with him. It's not the Aaron Rogers guys that bring Aaron Rogers. He's down bad right now. He might have the change his approach. Got it. Got it. Got it. But I, he's not better than Matthew Stafford right now. And then you add in the age thing, he's older than Matthew Stafford. He's presumably not more expensive, but it's a financial

commitment. If you're trying to get rid of a financial commitment, a big one on your roster, you're not going to go for Aaron Rogers. So like if you did a pros and cons list with Stafford and Rogers, like it would just be totally in Stafford's favor in every category. I don't even know where, where's the category where Rogers and Proustens from what you've found. Yeah. There is no. I mean, it's, it is just if it would cost less money. Yeah.

And I don't think that that's enough of a priority, particularly if it's, it's less money, but it's not orders of magnitude less. And then you got to sign Randall Cobb and then like, that costs money too. I mean. Oh, boy. I mean, you know, Cooper cut out the door. Would they have the podcast ultimatum, which the Jets now say. that they didn't actually. They have the draft house.

Maybe you can pot. It could be a lot house. Yeah. I mean, look, if there's any team in the NFL that's been a content machine, it has been the rants. Still, I'm skeptical. Okay. Let's move on to number two. The Green Bay Packers trying to ban the tush push.

I love it. They have presented a proposal to the competition committee that'll be looked over ahead of the league meetings. That says that they should ban the tush push. and, you know, we've heard from a bunch of different coaches, people commenting on the rules proposal. There's some support from this, including, I thought it was interesting that Sean McDermott said that he was in favor of it because other than the Eagles, the bills have been the team that actually, like,

has utilized this successfully. He brought up just the possibility of injury associated with the play and said that he was in favor of it. John Harbaugh, not in favor, really, really came out. spicy. Which is interesting because he's a guy that's complained about rules before. Yeah, yeah. Getting beat by the Patriots. Well, but he did have like a bit of a

technicality argument for it, which was that in his view, if you banned the tush push, you would have to ban all forms of pushing. That's good. What other pushing happens? He was like... Like teammate pushing. Obviously... Yeah, yeah. He was like, you can't...

Like, you're not going to be able to push a running back over the, the, it didn't totally make sense to me, but that was his point of view. You might have just been rambling to avoid another topic. Yeah, maybe. So, obviously the Eagles don't want it to be banned. Nick Siriani was very upset that this was something that came up. Do you, are you pro-tush push, anti-tush push? I'm neutral. I'm neutral on the tush-bush. I don't like the argument that, oh, it's unstoppable and that's why we should get rid of it, which the Packers kind of I think Mark Murphy, the CEO, was basically like it's a foregone conclusion, and we don't want that in the game, which I kind of agree with,

but you can't stop it. And if you look at success rates on quarterback sneaks, guess where the Eagles ranked? First. 14. Oh. 80%. So, like, the QB sneak works for everybody. The difference is the Eagles do it way more than everything.

They do it, yeah. Which I can, like, I kind of agree with that argument. I don't agree with the argument that it's not a football play. Like I've heard Jack Del Rio say that. It's arguably the football player. This is what football used to be. The Green Day Packers of all teams should probably know this. So yeah, I don't really have an opinion on it, but aesthetically, it's not fun to watch.

I do agree with that. And we do have rules based on that, the dynamic kick off. But it's like our quarterback sneaks, our normal quarterback sneaks, aesthetically fun to watch either. Like, it's not that fun to watch a team go half a yard. No, yeah. And I don't know that that has to do with the pushing of it all. As a Panthers fan and Cam Newton loyalist, no matter what, I support Cam Newton's rights and his wrongs.

The fact that Jalen Hertz is going to steal the touchdown record from him, it hurts me. So I am in time for that. Yeah. So if we don't count those as touchdowns for individuals and count them as team touchdowns, and I'm all for keeping the touch push. But what I am for, yeah, I'm with you. I don't really, I kind of don't think that this is going to happen. There's a lot of a, the one thing that'll be interesting is if they release any more injury information or injury data.

They looked at it in 2023 because it was, it never went to a vote, but the competition committee at least talked about it ahead of the 20203 season. And they did an injury study. It was on a pretty limited sample size at that point. They didn't find that there were injuries occurring on that. play at any sort of significant rate. It's possible they can take another look at it now, and I do think that that would be the thing that would garner a lot more support from it for it. Absent something like that, I just don't, I have a hard time seeing them getting 24 votes

for this. I agree. Just because I do think that there are a lot of teams that are like, it's a little soft to complain about this. That's what it is. that's what no one was complaining about the kickoff because there's no like softness involved but it is like yeah we can't stop it and you guys are bullying us and this is mean and you guys shouldn't be able to do it i honestly the other 31 teams just need to lean into it and if everyone starts doing it i think it will be easy easier to vote it out of the league because there's not one team benefiting from it and the team also happens to have the best offensive line in football and a quarterback who can famously squat i don't even know how much pounds you can squat 600 pounds so i don't know but it works for for everybody. Like I said with the numbers, like 80% success rate, that's not that high.

Right. And it's, it's also relative to a, like, what is the, what is the success rate for a normal quarterback sneak? I feel like it's in the, the 70s, probably. Probably. But I feel like the injury thing just is a non-starter for me. Like, can you remember a famous push injury? No. The only quarterback sneak, injury I can remember is Patrick Mahomes. It was a regular one. Yeah. I mean, also, not this is such a callous thing to say, but like, the two, teams that run it a lot are the ones that are incurring the injury risk of it. It's not like... That's a good point, too.

Like, the Packers don't have a serious injury risk because of this, because they tried it once, it's Jordan Love, and it failed spectacularly, which also sort of seems like it's maybe part of the thinking here. I did see a tweet that said, first of all, what I am definitely in favor of is more stories where we know that there's been something relatively spicy that's been proposed. And at first, we don't know who did it. And then it comes out. like it was the packers in the living room with the toothbrush.

It was like 15 minutes later too. Yeah. No, that was good. I really enjoyed that because there were a lot of funny tweets. And I did see the one that was like, I hate that we'd rather be Drake than get an interior defensive lineman who's 330 pounds. And like, that's pretty, that's pretty fair. Yeah.

And that's why I don't think this is going to work. It's not going to work. Not in this sport. That's the thing. If this was basketball, I think it would pass. But no. Speaking of pettiness. the Falcons and Kirk Cousins

are in a bit of a spat. Yes. So the news, the news today was that Terry Fontenow reiterated that they see Kurt Cousins as their backup. $40 million. They're $40 million backup. And this man is so committed to just staring

everybody in the eye and with a straight face saying, we'll do it. We'll pay $40 million for Kirk Cousins to be our backup. It's a chicken situation. It is a real chicken situation. And I think it's more of a chicken situation with Kirk than with it is, than with teams that could potentially trade for him. Because Kirk Cousins has a no trade clause.

And they are going to have to get him to buy in on going somewhere else and what that looks like and what the terms of that are. And only doing it if it's compensation that Atlanta is happy with and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And again, the Falcons and Kirk Cousins don't seem to be getting along right now. Right. So I took this as Terry Fonino essentially being like, Kirk, if you don't start working with us on this, you're going to sit there. This is the wrong quarterback to do this with it. I know.

It gives no quarter when it comes to contracts. Like the Washington thing was stretched out over like three, almost four years. It's a tricky situation. but I do think You know what you should do? You should bring back calling him Kirk. Kurt.

Kurt. That was the Washington. Yeah. Bruce Allen. Yeah. No, I honestly think they're going to get there at some point because this, they cannot go into the season with a $40 million backup. I looked up like the most expensive backups in recent history.

12 million, Jimmy G. in 2022. That was a Trey Lance here. Beyond that, seven million and nine million. more than tripling that. Yes. It's really funny. Why is this so funny? There's something about just like the pettiness of this whole thing of them being like,

no, we'll do it. We'll do it. What makes it funny is there's no winners in this. Both of them are going to come out. Right. There is something about like shooting yourself in the foot just out of spite that I love to watch. Yeah. But what I hope for, because if you are Kirk and you're like, okay, I'm resigned to be in a backup,

all right, that might be my future for this next season. Why not go to San Francisco? and finally get that Shanahan, Kirk Cousins, the flirtation is over. Totally. They've always, they've, they've always eyed each other from afar. Do you think that, I mean, I don't think that there's a scenario in which Kurt Cousins actually is the backup for the Falcons at $40 million next year. Like there's somewhere, some way, there are enough teams that are in need of a veteran quarterback. You can't even restructure it. It would have to be getting Kirk Cousins to take a pay cut, which like I said earlier, maybe the hard to stick. It's harder than stopping a push push.

He's getting him to take a big cup. The most dangerous place in the NFL is between Kirk Cousins and a pile of money. The other thing that came up was that they're also discounting Kurt Cousins' claim that he was injured at the end of last season. So during Super Bowl week, Cousins did an interview where he said that in week 10 against the Saints, he hurt his right shoulder and his right elbow. and then his arm kind of never got back to what it was supposed to be. Obviously, Cousins got benched towards the end of the season. Panics came in, looked okay, certainly looked a lot better than Cousins had been looking. And so Terry Fontino said that he, you know, anybody who's injured is on the injury report,

cousins did pop up in the injury report with that injury one day. and it was a day when they would have had a walk-through practice. But he was asked about it afterwards, and he said that it was a clerical error. Wait, who said this? Kirk cousin said it was a clerical error. This is why he's a legend at the bank. This is like, we need like Andy Cohen.

He is doing, I think Kirk is saying this stuff for the other 31 teams. Because if you do look at the splits from the Saints game on, before that, he was top 10 in EPA. He was top 10 in yards per dropback. He was top 10 in. He was 15th in success rate. After that, though, 30 second in EPA, 15th in yards per drop back,

and dropped down to 21st in success rate. So there is a clear marker there, a clear split between when he says he got hurt, and especially if it was his right shoulder when you watch the tape, like, that tracks. That tracks for you. He lost his arm strength. What do you think, it's hard to put a number on it,

but how much do you think his limitations last year came from that after week 10 versus, like, to me, a huge part of his struggles last year came from just total immobility. Yeah. They couldn't run the plays you typically run with their cousins because of that lack of mobility, which is the concern. And I think if that's the only concern, it could be easier to overlook a guy coming off a major Achilles injury one year on, he's going to be a lot better. He's going to be able to hand the ball off on outside zone if they want to call. They just couldn't call like the one play that you have to call. They couldn't call the Kirk Cousins plays.

Which that would be the one concern if he does end up with one of these like Shanahan McVey coaches, which I mean half the league is that offense now. So that doesn't really narrow down the field of potential suitors. But if he can convince teams that yes, the reason why I fell off in the second half is because my shoulder and had nothing to do with the Achilles injury. The Achilles injury is progressing as you would expect. I think it makes it more, it makes it easier and more plausible to have Kirk Cousins as your starting quarterback in week one.

if there's no explanation for why his play fell off, how do you get a fan base excited about what they saw over the second act, when he was actively holding the five and his back? Right. Who were a decent offense around him. But the thing here is, and now it's possible that the way that they'll play it or the way that it was is that,

you know, Kirk is saying that he was injured, but he says he never told anyone, and so they didn't know. This isn't allowed. No, yeah. If he was hurt, then the Falcons, if they had any idea that he was hurt, And even if, like, he should have reported it if he was,

you're not allowed to have an injured player who's not on the injury report. That's what makes me take the comments saying, oh, we didn't know about this injury with a grain of salt. I think they're just CYA just covering their own asses with this one. Sure, sure. I do find, I think it's going to be interesting because if Kirk does make it to the open market, whatever that looks like, whether it's trade, free agency, if he gets cut. I don't even know if that's plausible right now. Rahim Morris is very much in that Shanahan McVeigh-Mecay coaching tree, just on the defense.

defensive side of it. Like they all look up to him. So I think there's going to be a dialogue. And I think if one of those guys goes for Kirk, maybe he was right and he is healthier now than he was. And that's the reason he was so bad down the stretch. Morris was asked about it and he said, you know, I don't know.

You have to talk to Kirk. He did say he kind of went out of his way to say the benching was all about performance. Which again, I like your idea that Kirk is basically talking to the their 31 teams, but it also would be in the falcons best interest. That's a good point. But I don't think it matters because I do think that there is enough spite here that they just, and with a tad bit of like they don't want to get in trouble, that they just can't bring themselves to be like, to say something nice.

I totally agree with it. I do wonder, I think the only way we get to week one and he's still on the roster and he's still making $40 million is if it is like a standstill. Like, they're just, like, sitting there playing chicken, and none of them want to budge. Because it seems like there are egos involved at this point. I can't totally put my finger on what it is beyond just the fact that there are elements of self-sabotage going on in both camps here. This story, to me, really has a, like, I will take myself down if I can take you down with me. A hundred percent.

It's also saving embarrassment, especially from the Falcons, because it's failed. in such a telegraphed way. Like, we were all like, why you pay this guy $40 billion in drafting a quarterback in the first round? They were like, no, this is actually a very smart plan. If you just watch it play out. Then we watch it play out. And it appears to be a very dumb play and a very bad plan. Now, in fairness, I thought the thing that they were going to regret was the draft pick.

I agree with that. And it's not. No, no. So, you know. Where would they be without that draft? Where would they be without that draft pick? They would be $180 million in the hole for Kirk Cousins. we wish them well.

All right. Fourth topic, less of a specific news story and more something that just I think is sort of in the air. Everybody, I feel like every year at the combine there is a little bit of a narrative of like,

ah, everybody hates this draft because everyone loves to complain. I do feel like everybody hates this draft class. Especially the top of the draft. The top of the draft. Nobody wants these picks. The Titans GM was talking about how many calls they've been getting, how they expect a big return. And it had a real sure jam.

Yeah. Are the calls with us in the room? Is the big return with us in the room right now, Mike? Is it really? How are you looking at the top of the draft right now? Obviously, a lot can change between February 25th and April. I wouldn't want to be drafting in the top five either. Like, there are no blue chip prospects outside of Mason Graham, who plays defensive tackle and played through a knee injury last year, which is a little concerning. A running back, Ashton Dainty is, that's one of the blue chip prospects in this. So it's tough with like the positional value. And then you also have these other questions, like Abdul Carter, very explosive,

but he's an undersized defensive end, which you don't want. You want a big defensive end. Travis Hunter is, I think there's a lot of questions about, is he just like an eight out of 10 corner and an eight out of 10 receiver? And that just gives you an eight out of 10 player. And then even like Shador Sanders in the quarterback, Like, even if you love Chador, I don't know what the upside is there. Like, he's like a quick game quarterback.

He's not Joe Burrow, but he kind of has to be Joe Burrow for this to work because he doesn't have the big arm. And then there's all, I mean, then there's the whole circus of just what's it going to be like if you make that guy. A hundred percent. And honestly, I think that honestly helps because we've been watching him for the last two years just because of who his dad is. And then he hasn't been terrible.

Like, as long as you're, you look decent as a prospect for two years, you could be a first round pick as we see. So I don't know. It's a hard draft to get excited about. Like as an analyst, I'm like coming up with ideas for draft season. There's nothing sticking out. There's no like, there's no Anthony Richardson who was interesting because we hadn't seen him play a lot of football. Right. Obviously at town. There's no Kyle Hamilton who can like do all these things. And there's a blue chip prospect, but we don't know how to value him. I mean, the most interesting thing is maybe where do you draft Jainty? And even the running back discussion is tired at this point and I think it's starting to shift the other way after what we saw from

Saquan and Derek Henry. So even that's a tough conversation to have. So I think it's partly a lack of blue chip talent at the top and then a lack of interesting topics to discuss for people like us. I do wonder if it influences what happens with the veteran quarterbacks in particular because I'm going to contradict myself here. I still think the idea of, you know, the Giants giving up a top five pick for a Matthew Stafford for someone that age at that point feels a little rich to me. On the flip side, if they're this desperate for a quarterback, I do not think that they are going to be in on Sanders.

I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. That the New York Giants, that he's going to be someone that they want to commit to. And they're not going to be able to get Cam Ward, I think. Right. then what the hell? I mean, why not?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's a good point. I think that the concern is like you're not getting the value of a rookie quarterback contract. You know, it's a financially imprudent decision. Right, right. So what team, I guess if you're a desperate team like the Giants, maybe you would consider it. But I think these other teams, they have new regimes that aren't desperate to win right now. And then the Steelers are just in their own. I don't know what to consider them. They don't rebuild, but they don't. Yeah. They're not good. Yeah. So that's a tough one. Selfishly, just as a football watcher, I hope they, if I'm Matthew Stafford, I don't really want to go there.

Yeah, 100% not. Because I don't think, I even think I would rather go to the Giants and try to compete with that roster, which is not good, but has some pieces. Yeah. Then go to Pittsburgh. Go to Pittsburgh and compete with Lamar Jackson and Joe Borough. Like, I think Matthew Stafford realizes he's not. out Lamar Jackson at this point in his career.

I think he could do like an adequate. As opposed to earlier in his career when he was definitely Lamar Jackson. He honestly scrambles more than he ever did. So maybe he is feeling himself as a Lamar type, a zonery type. But now, like, I think he's realistic about what those teams have and what he has left in the tank compared to what those quarterbacks have. And that would be, you're finishing third every year almost to start. Like, that's your ceiling.

I guess they finished above the Bengals this year. but I don't think the Bengals are going to have the year they had last year. So I do wonder what Stafford would want. Yeah, do you think he would, so of the four that are the sort of most obvious suspects, so the Giants, the Browns, Pittsburgh, and the Raiders. How do you rank those as destinations? Is this going to sound weird? And if I told myself this a year ago, I'd be like, you're on drugs, but maybe the Raiders.

I mean, Pete Carroll, it's not even just the Tom Brady thing. I do think Tom Brady brings some legitimacy to it. I don't know why. I don't think he's earned it because he was good at playing quarterback. I don't think that's going to help him with this. Yeah, but you know that Brady could find a way to, like, get himself to whatever this year's Cancun is to make a real, like, and he would be excited about that, you know, like a sort of a boy strip. I feel like Tom Brady probably actually kind of wants that in his life right now. I do agree with that.

And Pete Carroll, definitely down for that. What a funny bunch that would be. It is a funny bunch. But I do think like Carol brings something to the table where it's not Josh McDaniels. They are rebuilding. They are starting over, but it's not Josh McDaniels. He brings something to the table and that something is not being Josh McDaniels or any other Raiders. I'm not trying to single out him.

He's not Antonio Pierce also as another good. Check, check. Yeah. They set the bar very low. But I do think P. Carroll is a guy that I, quarterbacks who played during that era, during that heyday that played Seattle, Detroit played Seattle a lot. I think they played in the playoffs one or two years.

Probably respect Pete Carroll more than maybe the general public would in 2020. That's right. And he's, you know, he's sort of known as a player's coach and someone who Stafford probably views as like a known quantity at least. What about cousins? That's a tough one. Well, the next one. one's Rogers. It doesn't get any easier, does it?

I think for him, I would, I would, I don't think any of those four work. That's the problem. Yeah. I could see a Steelers thing that work. Not work like in that it's going to lead to good results on the field. I think it would work him and Tomlin together. Makes sense to me. I don't know why, but it does.

You expand on that a little. They are, they do both have like, they're both a little corny in their own way, Not in the same way, but in their own way. A hundred percent. They love a saying. Oh, yeah. Kirk Cousins would be in, he would buy into Mike Tom. Yeah.

He'd he selling like right away. And I do think that's the quarterback that, that's the style of quarterback, for better or worse, that Mike Tomlin really wants. He's a guy who's not going to mess things up. And Kirk did mess things up for Atlanta, but not in, I guess you did, because he did start throwing some bad picks, but a healthy Kirk Cousins. Did he throw like eight in reception? It's pretty bad.

But a healthy Kirk Cousins, he'll, He'll throw the check down. As long as he can, like, pivot to the left and find the running back. As long as he can move. He honestly couldn't move, and I think that was a huge problem. Quarterbacks are, they have to be able to move. They have to move. You heard it here first.

Contrary to the success of Jared golf in Detroit, they have to be able to move. All right. What about Rogers? Just retire, man. I don't, I feel like that's not happening. No, I don't think so either. There's no way he's going to go out the way that he did. I think he's a guy that would consider the Giants

just because of the storyline of him going across town and be able to stick it to the Jets. But I just don't see any team that would want him. Yeah, I don't think the Giants are just so, they're so sort of like media circus averse. Yeah, that's good point. I don't know where he would end up.

He's not going to go, I don't think he's going to go to Las Vegas. So what's left open for him? The thing is he's a good quarterback still. I know that even that's a controversial statement, but I think he's a top 15 quarterback still. Everything he brings to the offense, you have to run just, it doesn't matter.

Yeah. It doesn't matter. You have to run a certain offense, which doesn't work in the NFL right now. I will say the flip side is I don't, I just, I don't think he really cares about money. No.

I do, like maybe as a measure of pride. What does you care about that? I think he cares about it. being on a team. I think he cares about having people to be around. I think he just wants one good year. One more good year and he's out. I don't even think he wants to win. That's why I think

a team like the Giants where he has Malik neighbors, the defense has talent on that side of the ball, in theory, on paper. I could see him doing that. I'm trying to think of him with like a Shanahan guy and a Shanahan offense. I just think back to the growing pains with Matt before and all the

tension before the games were even played about audibling and the sequences of plays. I just don't think he's going to sign up for that at this point is true. All right. Last thing. Khalil Shakir and the bills have agreed to a four-year extension. It is worth $60 million, $32 million guaranteed. Thoughts on the state of the bills receiving core after this news? I mean, that is a very good deal and I'm very concerned for not only Shakir, but his agent.

What is going on? there problems at home? Like, is he desperate for money? That's 75% of Christian Kirk. And that was three years ago. Remember that Christian, that Christian Kirk contract has like a very strangely long tail, I feel like. We're going to be talking about it for the rest of my life. It's going to outlive us. Yeah, it's interesting that he wasn't able to get more. I mean, he led them in targets and receptions and receiving yards last year. Obviously, that was a career year for him. They weren't incredibly explosive numbers just because that's not what the bills... Eight out of five. Yeah. So, I don't know. It is certainly feels a bit of a modest deal,

but I don't know that he should have been expecting to get like a market breaking contract. No, I agree with that, but he is, I think he was one of the receivers, one of the holdovers from the team before that was really affected by the everybody eats mentality they had on offense like they were a run first team on first down they were kind of a run first team on second down and I think there was such an emphasis on spreading the ball around that his numbers he didn't take the step that I thought he would take you look back at his numbers after Stefan diggs kind of got phased out of the offense after Joe Brady took over like it was I'm on Ross St.

Brown level like in terms of being able to move the chains being able to you know be that like slot option who can get like a five-yard game when you need five yards. But also he was making plays downfield and we kind of saw that go away. So he just seems like the ultimate team player to me. And I don't see how this contract would ever like backfire. This is the type of deal you need to make when you have a quarterback making as much as they do to be able to sustain the success that they had on offense last year. I agree with you and that the contract is very team friendly. So even if this doesn't happen, I think the bills probably will look at this as a good. good thing, an obvious move. Do you think, because as of right now, they're looking at, you know,

the top three pass catchers being Shakir, Keon Coleman, and Dalton Kincaid. Is that enough? Do you think he can grow into a little bit more, like, I don't think the way they run their offense, they need a true, like, number one, number one, but can he do enough? so that that's okay? I think the price tag tells you what they think the answer is. Because I don't know who his agent is, but I would imagine that the agent wants more money no matter what. And if the bills were willing to offer it,

they saw him as a wide receiver one. Even if it's like not, you know, the true ex-receiver he lines up. You can have different types of number one receivers in this day and age. But I think that tells you that they think they need someone else. Maybe it's Keon Coleman. I think they draft it. I still think they believe in him. He obviously didn't play a lot.

down the stretch because he was hurt. From what I saw, I don't know how confident I would be in him becoming that player. But they definitely need that. And you can go back to Bean's comment, the GM's comments, like, over the last couple of years. And he's like mentioned getting to Jamar Chase, getting to T. Higgins and how hard that is. So obviously he's thinking about, hey, I would love to have one of those guys. I think they're going to still look for like an alpha receiver. I think they still need that.

They need a reference point on their offense where... Right. That's a good way of describing it. And that's what they don't have. Right. If I put this guy here, the defense is going to do this. If they don't do this, that means they're doing this. That type of thing.

That's what they lost with Diggs. I think Diggs wasn't going to be that player, obviously, going forward. Right. So they had to cut bait with them. But they definitely need that player again. And I think we saw that kind of hurt them in the playoffs, especially against the Chiefs. Like, think about how well the Eagles have done against the Chiefs in these big games

and how the bills have moved the ball, but they haven't put up, like, monster games. And it's because of AJ Brown, especially in this last Super Bowl. Like, whenever the Chiefs played man coverage, Dailette Hertz just automatically threw it up to AJ Brown and he made a play. The bills don't have that.

They can kind of, like, neutralize the spags of it all, the game plan aspect of the defense. And if they don't have that, I think it's going to be hard for them to kind of compete with these teams where they don't have a coaching pitch. Right. I mean, they have three people. in the first two rounds.

So I wonder if that's, you know, because those receivers that you've heard them mention, you know, those were sort of draft and develop guys. And I get the sense that that's probably what they would love to do. And they do have the draft capital this year that they can go look for it. Obviously, it's not a draft where people are like screaming about the amazing wide receiver talent. But still, maybe they find someone, I will say. the, just, just in the process of checking in with the bills, checking in with the bills, skill position players, for at least the fourth time in the last four months,

I re-learned that Amari Cooper was on the bills. Yes. Which as soon as I learn it, I forget it. Yeah. I think the bills forgot about it. Yeah. That, yeah, that's a tough one. Like, that's, it's hard to judge his season just because he joined mid-season.

And I think, like, that's an underrated thing about wide receivers is. We always talk about how important chemistry is and, like, getting with your guys in the offseason and working out and getting your timing out. He got dropped into a division title race. And they played the Chiefs, like, the next week. Right. Like, I don't think he really got a chance to breed. So I would wonder if they do, they aren't going to give up on that idea completely. Obviously, like, he can move on if he wanted to.

But I would be a little more excited if he was still on the roster. I would give him one more year and just try it out. Because you're not going to find a guy in the draft because you're not drafting high enough to get Ted McMillan, who's the only one that profiles as like this A.J. Brown style of receiver where I'm going to dominate my matchup physically. So I honestly think just waiting for another wide receiver class to come along because they're going to come along eventually. This is a rare year in terms of wide receiver prospects. I think it would make sense to kind of use those picks you have. You have the three picks and kind of just build up your capital for next year where you could attack. a problem that isn't necessarily a problem for them yet.

I think it's a problem in the AFC championship game. It's not a problem from weeks one through weeks 18. Although if you're the bills, you're sort of, you're thinking, you're fine weeks one through 18. You are. You're not fine after. And that's sort of what you have to be building for. All right.

Anything we missed? Any other stories? You're just rearing to cover? No, no. I'm telling you, this draft doesn't, it's not moving me. I don't know what that says. Is that something about me or does that say something about that? There's still time.

There's still time. I do. I feel very confident that every year, whatever we're thinking about at the combine, by the time we actually get to the draft, there's going to have been, somebody's going to have a pro day in the rain. Oh. Somebody's going to, yeah, there's nothing like a pro day in the rain. So have faith.

There are some quarterbacks on the periphery of those top two that I don't understand. at all like Tyler Show who's been in college for like he was in the same recruiting class as Pena Sewell they went to Oregon together I have what's the opposite of a soft spot I have a hard spot like for Tyler show I once bet on Oregon it was like a 17 late parlay I was very desperate I was trying to buy a PS5 and I missed out on it and I was like all right I'm gonna buy it on the secondhand market I'm gonna have to pay $250 extra I'm gonna put in this parlay and if I I'm going to buy a PS5. Hit the first eight legs of whatever it was.

No. The show. Civil War. It was a fog game. I'm not making this game up. Oregon fans will tell you. They were up 17 points. I took an Uber home from my friends house.

I'm going to get a PS5. When I get back, they lost the game through three picks. Devastating. I would never draft. Devastating. Off your board. All right. This has been the ringer NFL show.

I'm Nora Prenziotti. He's Stephen Ruiz. Thank you for listening.