The Ringer NFL Show - Mike Macdonald Needs to Trust Sam Darnold More, With Jacson Bevens

Episode Date: September 26, 2025

Jacson Bevens from Cigar Thoughts joins Sheil on the pod to break down and analyze the Seattle Seahawks’ thrilling victory over the Arizona Cardinals on ‘Thursday Night Football.’ (00:00) Intro/cold open(2:33) Mike Macdonald's trust in Sam Darnold(7:05) Sam Darnold is actually good!(13:42) Expectations for the Seahawks(17:17) Jaxon Smith-Njigba is dominating(19:04) Sick of the Cardinals The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.rg-help.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Sheil Kapadia Guest: Jacson BevensProducer: Chris SuttonSocial: Kiera Givens and Brian WatersProduction Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the ringer NFL show. Shield Capadia here. Seahawks Cardinals was not that entertaining for like three plus quarters. But man, what a finish. Seahawks, hang on 2320. What did we learn? What are our big takeaways? What do we think about these teams going forward to talk about it all?

I'm thrilled to welcome in my friend Jackson Bevin who hosts, who hosts, podcast. I've joined him on that many a time. now he's returning the favor and joining me. He's been talking Seahawks. He's been talking NFL for a long, long time. Jackson, how is the heart rate after that ending for the Seattle Seahawks? Oh, there's never a doubt, baby.

Never a doubt. No, of course, man. The Seahawks are incapable of playing a normal game. So, you know, once a week, my heart is used to it at this point. But it's calming down now once that kick went through the uprights. There you go. Calm and down now, three and one if you're a Seahawks fan. You have to be excited.

I did, but I have a take that I want to lead off with that. I wonder if Jackson's going to tell me, you got to shut up with that. Don't, that can't be the first thing we talk about or if he's going to agree with me. So let's take a break. We come back and we will get into what we learned from this football game. This is the Ringer NFL show presented by Fandul and the NFL is officially back. So if you're going to be in it, be in it with Fandul. They've got the goods, futures, live betting, SGPs, Your Way bets, all of it.

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All right, Jackson. I'm going to lead us off. And here is actually my big take. And part of me can't believe, I can't believe the words that are about to come out of my mouth. here. But here goes. I think if the Seahawks want to win big, Mike McDonald actually needs to trust Sam Donald more, was one of my big takeaways from this football game. Let me explain. Let me explain before you. I made Seahawks, I thought, almost blew this game and it really

shouldn't have been close, you know? But if you've watched McDonald through the first four weeks of the season, I think it's pretty clear how he wants to play. It's like he wants to win with his defense. He wants to make sure Sam Donald is not losing games for him. And it cost him in week one in that 49ers game. We all remember that. He got conservative. I thought it almost cost him in this game. You know, there's a fourth and two in the third quarter.

He kicks a field goal. Then in a one score game, it's 2013 with 404 left. Earlier in the drive, Sam Donald had delivered a beautiful ball to Jackson Smith and Jigba down the right side line. It's third and nine. I'm thinking, all right, what's Donald going to do here? You know, step on the throat, put him away. And they run the football.

they settle for a 53-yard field goal that they end up missing that allows the Cardinals back in the game there. And then even on that final drive, Jackson, I'm looking at, they have a timeout. They're at the Arizona 38. I'm thinking, all right, you know, Donald's been nails here. Give him one more chance for a completion get closer. They hand the football off to Zach Charbonnet, who had a heck of a run, honestly, to just gain whatever it was, four or five yards. And they kick a 52-yarder. So I'm adding all those things up.

And I'm looking at it. And it's like these are suboptimal decisions. It worked in this game, but barely. And I feel like I don't know that it's going to work in the long run. Again, I can't believe I'm saying it. Am I nuts or do you agree with any part of that? Well, listen, if anyone was going to disagree with you about trusting Sam Darnold more, it would be me because I am famously skeptical about the decision to move from Gino Smith to Sam

Donald. But you know what? Donald played really well in this game. and their best drives were when they were letting it rip. It's not like, I mean, Seattle's running game is better than it's been in a few years right now, early in this season. But it's not like it's dominant. It's not like they're just getting yards at will. It's still very, very hit and miss.

They had a lot of runs for loss of yardage. And so for them to just turtle up when they had proof of concept that letting the passing game go is working, especially against the. Cardinals defense has been very good against the run against everybody this season. It was really frustrating. They had a chance to put the hammer down on this team. You mentioned settling for a long field goal, you know, when it was 20 to 13, they also had a chance to make it 24 to 13 and not even have that be an issue. But they didn't put the ball in Sam Darnel's hands.

And to me, and I say this is someone who so far, Sam Darnold, he's doing his thing. Like I'm not a take lock guy. I want to be wrong. I've been very public about wanting to be wrong about Sam Darnold. So far he's looking good. But their passing offense is a Jackson Smith and Jigva passing offense. And in the second half, he was completely uncoverable. And Sam Darnold threw him a lot of trust balls. And then, and twice on those final two drives, he came through with big third down long completions. And then they just went away from it. And they got bailed out. But I am with you. I'd like to see them step on the throat.

It's very interesting because I think McDonald is such an interesting coach because it's not like he's ignorant to the, you know, game. Like he's, he talked about it after that 49ers game. You know, in my ear, they were saying, that's a go. I chose not to go. And I wondered in that moment was that a learning thing? Was that a, all right, if it comes up again, I'm going to do it differently. It doesn't seem like he wants to do it differently.

And I get it. He's a defensive coach. He's an awesome defensive coach. the defense is really, really good. And so I understand you want to trust that. And I'm not even saying, like, throw it 40 times a game. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying in these kind of key moments in a game where it's just like you can either

gain an edge. You know, he's always saying the chasing edges thing, right? That's been his slogan. It's like, those are, you know, some of those decisions you made, you're not chasing edges there. You're kind of going overboard here. And I think it's impossible to have this conversation without having the darnold conversation.

I think you and I were probably. probably in the same spot with this going into the season. I was very skeptical of this Sam Darnold, Clint Kubiak relationship. I thought it's not going to look the same as it did in Minnesota. Now, we have four weeks here, Jackson. And so I'm going to, I'm taking the L on my preseason take. Now, I want to hear where you are in a second, but I'm taking the L because I really thought there was a low floor for this offense.

Like I thought there was a chance it was going to be a disaster, that Darnold was going to look more like the guy we saw earlier in his career. And that just hasn't been the case through four weeks. I'm not saying it's amazing. He's elite. This offense is incredible. But what I do like a lot is that they are producing explosive plays at a very high rate. And you mentioned it.

That's impressive when you really only have one wide receiver you can lean on. Right now, 21% of their past plays have resulted in an explosive completion. That's the highest rate in the entire NFL. And I thought Darnold looked really good today. Like you said, 18 for 26, 242 yards. He made some big time throws in this game. And so I'm already one month in backing off of my preseason take that watch out this offense could be really bad. Are you willing to go that far?

Let's get the state of where Jackson is with Sam Darnold four weeks into the season. Yeah, I'm pretty confident in saying this offense is not going to be really bad. I think that, you know, I do. don't think a top five offense is within this team's range of outcomes, but it doesn't need to be because they're allowing 17 points per game. They gave up 20 today, and that's the highest that they've allowed all season. And 14 of it came in the final, what, seven, eight minutes of this game. And so you don't need Sam Darnold and the rest of this offense to go out and score 35,

at least so far, to win. And I think that that's where the art has to step into the science in the equation with Mike McDonald because the way that he's coaching about chasing edges in the non-high leverage situations, about squeezing the sponge with the clock in the game with defense and running and all the things that every coach wants to do, but very few are actually able or willing to do, can you in that moment then say, okay, I actually need to step out of that and be. more aggressive. And I wonder if he got spooked by going forward on fourth and one early in the game and getting stuck in saying, hey, maybe we don't have that advantage the way that I would like to

in this game. But I think Sam Donald is absolutely capable of leading an offense that's going to win games when they're only giving up 17. And I don't mean that as like a backhanded compliment. Like there is real value in having a quarterback that isn't going to give that away. Week one, yes, but week one's crazy for every NFL team. Last three weeks, he's been really good. In eight halves of football so far, I think he's had five good ones. And I'll take that. Yeah, yeah.

He has exceeded my expectations. And if, you know, long-time listeners of the show, be like, Sheal, we had the same conversation last year where I was just hanging on. I was going, well, all right, he's done it for four. weeks for the Vikings already he's done it for six weeks already he's done it for eight weeks and I felt like it was just going to flip at some point and flipped

but it was the last it's the last two games of the season they had already won 14 games so that's a different that's a different animal I mean his teams are 17 and 4 in their last 21 games I saw them flash that stat on the screen and I was looking at the advanced stats you know right before we came on Jackson

and again it's a four game sample so I don't want to get carried away but EPA per pass play and success rate. He's actually performing better this year with the Seahawks with Clint Kubiak than he did last year with Kevin O'Connell and Justin Jefferson and the QB whisperer. And it's like, so I don't know if that's going to last the rest of the way, but he looks confident. He was making big time throws and he was avoiding those big mistakes. So I feel like, you know, if you're a Seahawks fan, you feel good about how this experiment's going so far. The Seahawks have only run, I think, like, 50s.

15% of their plays when they've been behind so far this year. Okay. And so that opens up a lot of opportunities that those weren't game scripts. Minnesota was in last year. It was a lot of shootouts. It was a lot of high scoring games. It was a lot of defenses expecting the pass. And how you perform passing against the defense that is expecting the past because it's

tied or it's high scoring or you're behind is different than when you're playing big stack poker. and you have more chips than the other guy, and you can just lean on them. And then all of a sudden, you can surprise them with a big shot down the field. That is what the Kubiak system was doing last year in New Orleans before all the injuries hit. And so, yeah, it is an advantageous position for a quarterback to be in, but you still got to perform and Sam Darnel's performing. Okay.

Let's take a break. I want to come back and just get your sense of like expectations for this team. Are you allowing your mind to wander to those, know, weird places of January and February, or are you keeping it in check and being like everybody settled down? So let's take a break and come back and talk about that. The Ringer NFL show is brought to you by Fandul. It's one of the biggest weeks in sports and Fandul is turning it into a full-on celebration, introducing Fandul Boost Fest, where every day from September 25th to 28th brings you a 50% profit boost on the biggest matchups in football,

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1-800 gambler or visit RG-dash-help.com. Call 1-88-7-8-8-9-7-7 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. So they're three-in-one, Jackson. They entered the week with the highest point differential in the NFL. They beat the Steelers by two touchdowns. They crushed the Saints. This game, honestly, the final score is 23-20. It wasn't that close for, what, 54 minutes of the game? It felt like they were the far superior team. Where is your, as a long time, Seahawks fan, where is your mind?

Are you like, well, hey, NFC's wide open, you know, anything can happen? Are you like, all right, I like where it's going so far. I'm trying to just go week by week. Take us inside the psyche because we know you know Danny Kelly at the ringer for a long time. We know you know Mina Kheim. so we know some of the group chats that you're potentially on here. What is your feeling right now? You know, just this week, we did our show with Brady Henderson from ESPN,

and we talked about like the question I asked him at the end of the show was, when does the Seahawks season end? And this is before this past game, but we both thought Seattle would win this game. And he and I had the same answer and it was like, if we win a million dollars, if we get exactly right, it ends in the divisional round, which is progress. So like, am I allowing myself to dream? Yeah, because I think that this team is good enough to be in the final eight.

And once you get to the final eight, now you're talking about winning a series of coin flips. And I think Seattle is good enough to get to that point. So sure, I'll let myself dream. But also, even with my misgivings about some of the offseason moves, I still thought this was a 10-win team because I was, I was looking at what I thought was the top five defense. And so far, that's what they've been by just about every measure. I think that one of the craziest stats that I've heard about any team this season is that Seattle has the highest pressure rate in the NFL and are blitzing at the 31st highest rate.

They are manufacturing elite pressure on opposing offenses without a marquee, edge rusher and without blitzing. And that is the hallmark of a Mike McDonald defense when it's clicking. So if that trend continues, and if you're not relying on a Miles Garrett or a Micah Parsons to essentially put the opposing offense off of their mark and you can do it with all different kinds of guys, then it opens up so much. You can keep seven guys to cover five in coverage. And that is game script proof. You get to have your entire back half. of the defense playing with their eyes forward instead of their eyes back. And so that is why I saw this as a 10-win team anyway.

And yeah, I'm starting to entertain thoughts of them being a little bit better than that. Now that we see the offense being as efficient as they are. Yeah, I thought I had them as the top defense in the NFL coming into the season. I really thought they had a chance to kind of make that leap. It's been very good. The corner play at times makes me a little nervous. You know, Rick Wholen gets called for a couple past interferences. But to your point, that is the McDonald's.

like sort of superpower is just coming up with ways with those simulate, hey, we're only rushing four. You don't know which four are coming. And we're going to break down your protections. And all of a sudden, we're going to have a free rusher. And we've seen that pretty consistently through the first month of the season. So yeah, the defense is really, really good.

Like you said, you didn't need the offense to be top five. You need them to kind of reach a certain threshold. And they've reached that threshold so far. I mean, Jackson Smith and Jigba is just like, I mean, It's got to be amazing to just root for him every week. At the end of the season, I think people are going to be forced to have a really honest conversation about where JSN ranks in the pantheon of NFL receivers.

Because he's not doing it with elite quarterback play. He's getting good quarterback play. He's not doing with elite quarterback play. And he's not doing it in a high volume offense. But he is dominating targets. He went without a target in the first half. And he was coming in with a 40% target share on the season. one in the NFL. And then in the second half, it was just like, well, trying to do all the other stuff isn't

working. Yeah. Let's just build the whole plane out of Jackson Smith and Jigba. And that's what the second half was. And they won. Yeah, such a huge heads-up play there at the end. The catch and then twisting out of bounds. They don't have to use the timeout. That was a terrific play. The stutter go on the third down, where Sam Darnel just lays up a beautiful ball for him down the right sideline. So yeah, He has been an awesome player so far this season. All right, let's finish with the other team. Yep. Jackson, the team, you know, you watch this team a lot over the years.

Here's my take. That was the perfect Cardinals game, you know. They just tease you a little bit into thinking, hey, maybe there's something here with those last two drives, but ultimately they end up losing. That's pretty much the story of like the last seven years with the Cardinals. I mean, when they were down 20 and they made, you know, the coaching stuff too with them was not going to.

great. They're down 26 and the fourth. They score a touchdown. A lot of coaches in the NFL will go for two there because then you have a chance to take the lead. If you score that second touchdown, they did not do that. Now, ultimately, it didn't end up mattering because the Seahawks kicked the field goal. But I have to be honest, I'm just like pretty much sick of this team. I'm like sick of the hipsters telling me, watch out for the cardinals. They're good. The things they're doing defensively. I mean, during the broadcast, they call Jonathan Gannon a defensive guru. Jackson. Since he took over, three year, we have a three year sample here almost, well, two plus the Cardinals ranked 32nd in defensive success rate. 30, you literally cannot be lower

than where they rank in defensive success rate since Gannon took over. And if you say, well, Sheila, that's not fair. The first season, he didn't have his guys. Okay, since the start of last year through four games this year, they rank 31st. They've bumped up one spot. So I just look at them. You call that progress. Yeah, progress. You would think, You would think the way some people talk about them. They must, here's what really annoyed me. They're doing a Gannon-McDonald's comparison, like two defensive coaches. McDonald's calling his defense.

I'm like, Gannon does not belong in the conversation with Mike McDonald when we're talking about, you know, defensive gurus in the NFL. One of them has a track record. The other doesn't. So to me, there's just no reason to take this team seriously. They're just so inconsistent offensively. The defense is below average. They're a mediocre team.

and they're going to continue to be a mediocre team. Am I wrong about any of that? Do you want to pile on? Where are you with this Cardinals team? Yeah, you know, you mentioned group chats earlier. I'm in a Dynasty Fantasy League with some of your contemporaries, all the Ringer Fantasy football guys, Danny Kelly, Danny High Fitz, Craig Holbeck,

Nate Tyson is in that league, a few others. And one of the things I texted to them during this game is the Cardinals are an adolescent franchise. There are three adults in the room in that division. And then there's a promising precocious teenager who has moments where you're like, oh, this gets pretty, it's getting pretty sharp. And then they remind you that, you know, it's like, do you put on deodorant today? It's like, you know, I went in your room and that's not a grown-up room.

And that's who the Cardinals are. And until they can mature. And we saw it like, again, we saw moments of excitement and precocity in the fourth quarter. You're down four points. You're, excuse me, 14 points. You've been dominated for four quarters. And you come out and you just let it rip. You should have been letting it rip all game long.

You're just letting it rip. All of a sudden, you're tied. And then you kick it short. Yeah, right. And you just make the team go 20 yards to beat you. Little stuff like that, right? Yeah. And top.

down. It's a low rent cheap ownership. It's a quarterback who I really like watching, but I'm glad isn't my favorite team's quarterback. It's a head coach that just seems a touch overwhelmed. And you're just waiting for their best players to make big plays when the game is on the line. And they just don't do it against good teams. That was beautiful. I mean, adolescent French, I'm just going to steal it. I'm telling you right now, the deodorant.

That was beautiful. Yeah, I don't know. That one, I'm like, man, I wish I could come up with stuff. You said it perfectly. Now, to their credit, they put together the drives at the, I did not think they were going to score that second touchdown. I was like, this is going to end in some disastrous sack or. And Marvin Harrison, Jr., what a roller coaster of an evening.

I'll be honest. There was a time in the first half where I was like, I should probably text Jackson and be like, we're going to have to leave the show with like, what's going on with Marvin Harrison, Jr. I mean, that was a horrible first half. he comes back. So good for him. Like I think we want him to succeed. He's a talented player. He's fun to watch when he's on.

But it was going bad until he bounced back there in the second half. But yeah, you said it. It's like they're just a tease. They're an adolescent franchise. Like to me, it's just, I just had enough. I'm just tired of people telling me to care about them. You know, it's like I don't need to care about the Arizona Cardinals. They're going to probably win seven or eight games.

If they're lucky, maybe they win nine or they're in the playoff race. It's not out of the race. realm of possibilities that they sneak into the playoffs. But like, ultimately they're not going to matter. And until that changes, I'm tired of people telling me otherwise. So there you go. Stick them in the AFC South. We can have a conversation.

That's right. But this is a big boy division. Can we do that? It feels like that's where they belong, the AFC South. Or yeah, that would be a lot more fun. All right, Jackson Bevins. That was terrific. Check out his podcast.

Cigar thoughts. He is feeling it right now as he should. a nice Thursday night victory. But Jackson, thank you so much for joining us. I will be right back with my Ringer 107 picks for the week. Appreciate you, brother. This episode is brought to you by American Eagle. Listen up.

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You can check it all out at a.e.com or just head to the store. Today's Ringer 107 is brought to you by Fandul every Friday at the end of the show. I will be giving you my five picks for the Ringer 107 contest. Now listen, I went two and three again last week, six and nine. Not proud of that, but luckily the other Ringer pods I'm competing with have also been bad. Nobody is above 500. So it's early. I'm within striking distance.

Hopefully I can bounce back this week. Let's get to the picks. Pick number one, I got the bucks plus three and a half hosting the Eagles. We got two undefeated teams in the NFC. But they both played close games every single week. Neither team has a win by more than one possession. I think they're pretty evenly matched right now. And if you look at the history, Jalen Hertz has had a tough time against Todd Bowles.

He's one and four against the bucks since Todd Bowles has been there in his career. And, you know, he's been a little shorthanded some of those games. no AJ Brown, but still, there's just no doubt if you've watched it, the Tampa scheme has given the Eagles problems. And then on the other side of the ball, Eagles defense has not been great. They're a little banged up. I just don't really trust the Eagles pass rush right now.

So I'm banking on a close game here. I'm taking the points bucks plus three and a half. All right, second pick. Chargers minus six and a half at the Giants. Jackson Darts first start. We talked about it earlier this week. Definitely add some juice to the game. but I continue to think that the Giants are just a bad team.

I mean, I think they're weak to offensive outburst against an awful Cowboys defense, threw some people off dissent. But Dart and Brian Daibald against Jesse Minter and this Chargers defense, I mean, I am giving the Chargers a huge edge there. And Justin Herbert is playing at a high level right now. So Jim Harbaugh's team takes care of business on the road. Chargers minus six and a half. All right.

Third pick, we go to L.A. and give me the Rams minus three and a half at home against the Colts. Now, listen, I could be totally wrong about the Colts. They have burdened me already multiple times this season. Maybe they actually can sustain something close to this level of play offensively. I mean, they've legitimately been the NFL's best offense through three weeks, but I really like this Rams team. You know, their offense, their run game.

I thought it was really impressive last week against the Eagles. You could just see that is a well-coached. offense. Now, if the Colts go to L.A. and beat this Rams team, it's going to be hard to doubt them anymore. I mean, that would be a really, really impressive win. So maybe that's what we're talking about next week. But I think the Rams are going to come through here and cover the three and a half. All right, pick number four, game of the weekend, I'm going Chiefs plus two and a half at home against the Ravens. I was on the fence with this one. It's tough. Either Lamar Jackson's team or Patrick Mahomes' team. One of those teams is going one and three. And I think we all came into

this season thinking, hey, the Ravens are one of the NFL's most complete teams. But now do we still think that, you know, the run game has been mediocre, which seems wild to say with Lamar Jackson and Derek Henry, but it's true when you look at the numbers, their defense right now with a couple of key front seven players, Namdi Matabouke, Kyle Van Noy, both those guys are out for this game. the defense did not look good at all Monday night against the Lions. And I think the Chief's offense, it hasn't looked great, but they're still eighth in EPA per drive. In other words, maybe it's not quite as bad as our eyes tell us.

It's a lot of Mahomes scrambles. It's Taekwon Thornton. I understand. I don't know if it's sustainable, but I just think they found a way to be a little bit more efficient than they've been given credit for. So I like Mahomes, big spot at home. I'm taking the Chiefs.

us two and a half as home underdogs. And then finally, this is probably a bit of a square pick, but who cares? Give me a winner. I've got the Packers minus six and a half at Dallas on Sunday night. This is a bad spot for the Cowboys. Obviously, it's the Micah Parsons game.

He goes back to Dallas. But this Cowboys offense is down three key starters. C.D. Lamb, out. Rookie guard, Tyler Booker. Out. Center Cooper Vee. out. I mean, I think that Dallas offense is going to have a really rough time in this game. And then on the other side of the ball, I mean, the Cowboys might have the worst defense in the

entire NFL. So I said it earlier this week. I think it could get ugly for Dallas. I'm backing up that stance by taking the Packers minus six and a half. So there you go. Those are the picks. Today's Ringer 107 was brought to you by Fandul. Odd subject to change. Thanks to everyone for listening. Thanks to Christopher Sutton for producing Kira Givens on social. Additional production supervision by Connor Evans and Arjuna Ramgopal. I'll be back Monday morning, breaking down the biggest week for storylines. Have a great weekend.

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