The Ringer NFL Show - Mike Tomlin, Raheem Morris, and Sean McVay Tell Stories From Their Careers | Flying Coach With Sean McVay and Peter Schrager

Episode Date: July 21, 2021

Mike Tomlin, Raheem Morris, and Sean McVay Tell Stories From Their Careers | Flying Coach With Sean McVay and Peter Schrager In our final episode, Sean and Peter are joined by head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers Mike Tomlin and defensive coordinator of the Los Angeles Rams Raheem Morris to reflect on learning experiences, unforgettable memories, and favorite moments from their careers (1:50). Finally, we answer some listener emails and voicemails (59:56). Follow 'Flying Coach' here on Spotify! Hosts: Sean McVay and Peter Schrager Guest: Mike Tomlin and Raheem Morris Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nobody knows what's going on, but we watch the Olympics. We just turn on our TVs and become obsessed with sports we haven't thought about in four years. This is why we made the ringer guide to the summer games. I'm your host, Roger Sherman. Each day during the Tokyo Olympics, I'll tell you about a different sport, athlete, or storyline. We'll be releasing new episodes every day starting July 19th. Follow along on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast, so you know exactly how to watch the Olympics. Welcome back to Flying Coach.

It's the podcast that is coaches being interviewed by a coach and a guy who's on the mic right now. My name's Peter Schrager. I'm one of the co-hosts for Good Morning Football on the NFL Network. And my co-host is the former NFL coach of the year. And my dear friend head coach of the Los Angeles Rams, Mr. Sean McVeigh, Sean, what's up? Not much, Peter. You know, I can't believe how quickly this is flown by. Here we are, episode 10, wrapping it up the right.

way. And who better than to end flying coach season two than two of the most charismatic, best coaches, most fun guys I've been around. And Raheem Morris and Mike Tomlin, head coach of the Steelers. Rahim Morris is with us as the defensive coordinator, former head coach of the Bucks, head coach of the Falcons last year for a handful of weeks. And these guys are fun. A lot of laughs. A lot of things that I think the fans are going to enjoy listening to these two. guys chop it up with us really excited about this conversation peter rahe moorese mike tomlin sean mcvay peter shreger it's a party let's jump right in yes sir final episode of the flying coach podcast we've had a blast we've had everyone from kyle shanahan to robert sala to joe judge

uh to matt lafleur we went to cliff kingsbury zach taylor arthur smith but sean i have not been more excited for any guests than the ones we've got today Who do we have on the final episode, the season finale of Flying Coach? Yeah, we got two special guests, Rahim Morris and Mike Tomlin. And these are two guys that I look up to, man. You know, you talk about charisma, presence, ability to communicate with guys. These guys do it as well as anybody. They've meant a lot to me.

But, you know, we'll start this thing off. You know, these guys are two of the best DB coaches, you know, that I've ever been around. And when they talk about off-man technique, cushion race, you know, They usually say let's start slow. Let's increase our speed as we go, but we ain't doing that shit today. We're getting started right away. I, you know, these guys have a lot of history. Their friendship is well documented.

Raheem Morris, never short on personality. Give me a good Mike T. story when you guys have been together to just start us off and just get a little good lather going right away. Hey, before when he even talks, let me be clear, okay? He could do me for this whole interview. Oh, I know. His impersonation of Mike is uncanny. When I actually met Mike for the first time,

I felt like I already knew the guy because I heard Rahim impersonate him so many times. Hey, you know, the guy's classic, man. He's been one of the ultimate teachers to us and when you're around that kind of greatness, you can do nothing but absorb it in. So I had the ability to absorb it in so much that it comes across as me imitating Mike

when times I may just be realistically teaching or doing a board throughout the process. But I definitely imitate this guy really well. He'll give you some classic lines, particularly in a positional meeting setting. But the story I got to give you, the story I got to give you guys is the first day I interviewed at 2002 when I was an opportunity to come down to interview as a quality control coach. And, you know, Monty Kiffin was there as a defensive coordinator. Mike Tomlin was obviously the defensive back coach. Brian Marnelli, our D-Line coach and Joe Barry, form me of a person. the L.A. Rams was our linebacker coach.

And it was the three, the four men sitting in there. And Monty Kiff, the interviews were legendary. You know, he puts you through a process. He puts you through the board. He made you recite the information back to him and give it to you with whatever defense he wanted you to do that day. And they were legendary. And all the guys sitting in, they listened.

I felt like I crushed the interview. And then I got the opportunity to visit with all the other coaches. I went to ride and talked about the issue of the game. He talked about what it means and talked about Chuck Knox and gave me an article. And he sat down with me and talked about football and given back to the game. football. I went to a room with Joe Barry. He handed me a PowerPoint, a document and said,

go recreate this document. So I had a couple of minutes to recreate this document. I was able to give him the document. He came back and said, man, that was great. I walked into Mike Thomas' office at the time was a closet. The only thing he was missing a couple booms and some cleaning materials. He looked at me and he said, hey, man, you're not tricking me, man. You're full of shit. Who taught you the goddamn defense? And where was it? And he said, he said, I'm going to bypass the fact that I knew you already knew this. F*** that.

I'm going to say I like you anyway. I'm going to post that for this opportunity. And there it was, man. The relationship started. And I got a chance to sit around this man for a couple of years and really soak up some good information, try to contribute. And he challenged me every day to bring something to the table that was worthwhile for him to be able to steal for me. And then at the end of the day, I realized he stole it, but it was his.

I was like, he had amazing ability to do that. I tell you what, though, you know, it just kind of speaks to the environment that we were in, man. Just listening to him talk about the names of the men that he interviewed with just through that process. You know, we were young coaches, man. We had that young coach arrogance. You know, we thought we were good. And don't get me wrong. we worked hard, but just to be in an environment with guys like Monty and Marinelli, man, and others,

we were just, we were fortunate to be there, we knew it. You know, it wasn't something that you look back on years later and have an appreciation for it. No, we knew it at that time. We knew that we were in defensive mecca, if you will. We knew we were in the hot spot, and it was just cool to be in your 20s and be coaching defense in Tampa. Florida. Yeah. You know, it is funny because I, and Rahim, you've kind of seen both ends of the spectrum. You know, I look at that staff, Mike, from a defensive perspective, and you talk about the success that all you guys have gone on to have. It's kind of similar, and we haven't done

nearly the things that you guys have accomplished. But when I was in Washington with Shanahan, with LaFleur, Rahim was a part of that staff. Talk about the differences that you saw Rahim and two staffs. Now, you know, you're talking about legends of the game. We're just trying to, you know, We're just trying to keep our head above water, but you know, you got a chance. What were the differences or what were some of the similarities that you saw? You know, the great part about it for me, when I was in Tampa, I was young, had no idea, fresh out of Hofstra, introduction to the lead. I was luckily enough to be a part of some lead-like things when I was at Cornell with Pete McGurion.

But I went down and I really just wanted to suck up everything and learn it all. You know, they had legendary coaches that had just left with Lovey Smith, with Herm Edwards, and then being replaced by Joe Barry and the Mike Tomlin. Being there being around all those guys, legendary coaches that you knew were part of the game, the history of the game, love the game, love playing the game, love doing everything about the game, you know, and being able to grow down there with those guys. And then I was able to go be a part of that Washington staff and be around Mike Shanahan who had done big things as a head coach and his son, Cal Shanahan, who also had Tom Woodson Tampa. I was able to be around you who also had time with us in Tampa. And being part of that staff that we had in D.C. with Bobby Turner and some of those legendary coaches and great coach that done so many good things in the zone scheme. system on offense and, you know, rest in peace today, you know, obviously a legend that's

died in office and line. But being around those guys, you can see the work. You can see the systems combined and come together and see the detail and all of the things that are able to go about whether we're talking about cover two or whether you were talking about that zone scheme keeper game on offense and seeing all those guys in the likelihoodness of the study and the attention to detail, the love for the game, the bond with each other, the willingness to meet all day on whatever it takes and whatever it needed to get done and it not being work, it being fun, and it being what you wanted to do and what you wanted to be.

Hey, Sean. Yeah. I got a simpler analysis of it. Hey, it's funny. You know, when we were in Tampa, you could just tell that we had a group by the way we moved around league functions, right? It was legendary how myself and Rahim and Joe Barry and Joe Woods

kind of moved around the combat. You know what I mean? Yes, I do. I try to keep up with you guys. And it was funny because when I saw that Washington group, I knew. I didn't work with any of you guys. And I knew Kyle, but just to watch y'all move with confidence that you guys moved with, how tight you guys were, that you weren't intimidated in any setting.

And let's face it, man. in our business, man, when you're getting settings like that around, you know, veteran coaches and stuff like that, it can be intimidating. But I recognize the confidence in your group, and I saw the similarities between y'all group and our group and in settings like that that had nothing to do with work. It was just social settings. You guys knew that you had the answers. You guys knew that you were talented, and you guys knew it was only a matter of time before everyone would know your names. and I saw that similarity just in hanging out with you guys that I saw in our group from, you know,

aid or whatever years earlier. Yeah. Now, you know what? It does resonate with me because Peter, and you know this as well as I do, you know, anytime, you know, the football business in general is full of big personalities, guys with a charisma and presence.

But I'll tell you what, anytime that you're around Mike Tomlin and Rahim Morris, you always know when those dudes are in the room because there's a kid, but you know what, though, I'll tell you what one of my favorite things that both you guys have that I think is, as a real separator, is the consistent mental toughness, the no flinch mindset and mentality through it all.

You know, I, I've obviously worked with Rahim, gotten to know him, but I've obviously had so much respect watching you lead from afar. And then when we've gotten to know each other over the last handful of years, Mike T. But, you know, talk about just that mental toughness that's, it just seems like it's kind of innate in both you guys. You know, what do you make of that? And where do you think that comes from, Mike T? You know, I think, I do think you have an aptitude for it,

but I do think that he and I sharpen that skill together. When you work shoulder to shoulder with somebody like he and I work together, and in a lot of circumstances like we were, I think we all looked around when it got tight like you always do. And when I looked around at him and he looked around at me, we always were very cognizant. We were never overwhelmed by moments. And I think we appreciated that about each other.

And I think that strengthened us. And I think we just wanted to share it with others. And so we instilled that in our group. We tried to, you know, as secondary coaches, we tried to impart that on the football team. You know what I mean? Because when you look around and things get tight, man, you can waste a lot of time talking about how bad it is

or wondering who's going to turn the tide, etc. we just took it upon ourselves, man, just from a mindset standpoint, that we were never going to flinch, that we were going to lead our group out of whatever darkness that you can encounter professionally. And really, I think we both came with an aptitude, but I think just the time spent together,

we gained an appreciation for that strength in each other, and we grew because of it. You know, and particularly together, you know, I've always tried to maintain that, mentality, obviously moving forward, but I don't know that I've ever had another partner that saw it as clearly in the same manner as I have is that dude that's on this call with us. I love that. You know, Peter, I love hearing, you know, Rahim tells me the story because, you know, I can remember the various amounts of times, just to advise the perspective when he's

head coach in Tampa and kind of just pouring into me. And, you know, he was telling me some stories about when he and Mike T. worked together. And as a young coach, you know, Mike alluded to this earlier about this young arrogance that we have and he's exactly right. And Rahim, you can touch on this better. You know, you're, you kind of get there.

You guys are working together and you got some suggestions on some coverage principles or maybe some pressure packages. And Mike T says to you, yeah, you're one of those young cats, man, all the answers and no accountability. There it is. So it was great. You know, it was always a great environment

because every week, you know, as this guy's assistant, who's this great coach, who focuses on the details of the work and really can adapt and apply whatever he wanted to apply to the group. And I was sitting in the lab on that Monday or that Tuesday, and I would be in my office waiting for him to call me in the room with my suggestions, my ideas, the things that I thought would work, the things that we wanted to do. And he would always sit down and go, yeah, yeah, those 27 things you got up there sound like great ideas. but you got no account of you to the shit I do and it always gave you great perspective and I was trying to get as many ideas and as many thoughts. Ron, it's a common threat.

I mean, we had Kyle on, Kyle Shanahan, and he said that he would take a second before putting the play call in and Sean would be buzzing in from the box up there. How about we do this? Just calm down for one second. I'm going to get it out. I'm going to call the play, Sean.

It's almost like this exuberance of the young coach. but I find all three of you guys so interesting because you guys went from being assistant coaches to coordinators to then those head coaching jobs at pretty young ages. And Mike, I'll start with you. You go from Tampa to then getting the defensive coordinator job in Minnesota. And then Bill Cower retires and this Pittsburgh job has opened up. Before you walked into that interview, I knew you knew you were ready for that moment, but what was kind of the mental process going into interview for the Pittsburgh Steelers head coaching job?

you know, for me, it felt like I was playing with house money, to be quite honest with you. That's probably why I performed as well as I did in interview, and that's probably why I got the job, you know. I didn't expect to be in that position, and I didn't see a whole lot of negatives in terms of being in that position. And so I just went in there, and I was very comfortable. I was myself. You know, I spent so much time just fighting to get a position to call defense. And particularly when you work in, you work in Tampa and you got raised, like we got raised in Tampa. The veteran coaches in our group, you know, they were just always, yeah, we want to see what

your tape looks like. You know what I mean? And so, like, man, I had poured so much energy into preparing to be a defensive coordinator and making sure that that tape was hot and really not looking beyond that, that I didn't get enough time to really put too much weight on the opportunity, you know? And so I went in there, I went in there like I was playing with house money, and I think that worked into my advantage. And, Rob, what about you that time with Tampa?

I know you were obviously an assistant with the team, but then the head coaching job? I mean, that's a, especially following the steps of Gruden, who was a guy who you guys knew all so well. Sure. You know, the beauty part about it, Peter, is I've only interviewed for 40 things, and the first one was Denver.

and I walked into that interview kind of like Mike Tomlin with the house was money. I had just been named defense coordinator at the Tampa Bay Buccaneers one of the hottest defenses in football taking over for a legend. A lot of a lot of situations people would run from and I had already

embraced it and I was ready to go attack that thing and go hit it and run it with Coach Drew. I didn't get the Denver job and within weeks I was able to take over for the Tempey Buccaneers and be their head coach. And that interview kind of happened. with our ownership over time. I think it kind of happened

when I interviewed with those guys to be defensive coordinator. I think it kind of happened with my relationship that I developed with them over the years. I think it kind of happened with the decision making

and some of the tools that I learned from this guy in the phone. One of the things that he told me that he's always expressed to me as a young coach was if we both got the same opinion and one of us are not needed.

And I always wanted to formulate my own opinion and go into all these situations with the open mind, with the reason to go out there and find people that would not like me would go out there find people that can kind of form.

We talk about now with the Rams, it's this basketball team. We've always had that mentality of finding people to go out there and find out what makes us better, what helps us tick like we had in Tampa or like we had in D.C. I think those things have made us great. I think those are things that got me into those opportunities like last year with Atlanta and then going inside Jacksonville having a chance to interview with those jobs. So I always going to that thing playing with the house is money. I don't think I'll ever go into it in any other way coming from Newark, New Jersey and Irvington, New Jersey,

and that mentality of just, no doubt. Let's go let this thing play out and see where we land. Hey, I tell you what, I'll never forget, man. I think I'm probably in the playoffs, maybe wild card round or something,

and they let Coach Gruden go, and it's kind of a shocker. You know, it's a shocker. I see it running across the ticker. I call this dude immediately because I'm like, they're going to interview you and they're going to hire you,

whether you realize it or not, not because I kind of been in that circumstance. You know what I mean? And I never forget, Roy, you remember you, he was in a barbershop and Brandon getting a haircut. I was like, man, that's good. You get the haircut because you're going to need it. I just saw it, you know.

I just knew that if they gave him a legitimate consideration that they weren't going to say no to him, he wasn't going to allow it to happen. Yeah, go ahead, Rob. I'm sorry, so I got to add to that story. I am in the barbershop. It was a Friday. I'm going to get my barbershop and Brandon and Mike T's calling me and talking about this. And after that, I got called in by Bruce Allen.

And I go to the office and I go into this room. And long story, should I become the head coach. And I'm sitting in the Glazier's house in Tampa. It was Brian Glazier. And I'm not supposed to answer my phone yet or talk to anybody and let him know. Because, you know, you know how this thing is breaking news is breaking news. and how it goes, and Mike T's calling me. And I got to answer this phone call, so I sneak and I answer it.

Hello, Mike, what's up? He goes, hey, man, what's going on? I go, hey, man, you can't tell anybody, but I'm the head coach of Tempe Buccanez. No, shit, it's crawling across the ticket right now. You know, and I'm like, oh, my bad, I didn't know. He thought he was holding on to some hot information. Oh, God, it is unbelievable. You got no time to get anything out.

You think you're telling your buddy something, and the whole world knows. Let me ask both you guys this because it is funny. There's a confidence, but there's a, you know, there's a security knowing that, hey, we've been around good coaches to go shoot our shot and we got nothing to lose when we're getting these opportunities at young ages. Going into year 15, all the great experiences you've had, Rahim, if you guys flip your hat on and you say, I'm the owner or I'm the guy hiring a head coach, what are we looking

for? Like, what do you think stood out about you guys that made, you know, ownership groups say, hey, we can't miss out on an opportunity to let these guys lead and do their thing. What is that that you think is something that you would say is important to you, Mike? I think that youthful arrogance is attractive. It would be attractive to me. There's a lot of reasons to be downtrodden. There's a lot of reasons to be beat up by our business.

We've always thrived on the competition. And I say we, and I'm talking about the guys on this call and the guys that we spent a lot of time with, our crews, right? And to me, you can't put a price tag on that. The journey is a long one, and I'm talking about the journey of our careers or the journey that is a season. And if you're not a generally optimistic person with a can-do attitude, this thing chews you up. And I think your teams feel it. And so for me, I think that youthful arrogance or that can-do attitude that we all kind of displayed that probably was attractive to ownership would be attractive to me. That glass half full, that bring it on.

Yeah, we all have been knocked down a peg of two through the life experiences, but just in spite of it, I just think that general approach to the game and to the competition that makes our game what it is, I think, is a winning edge for all of us. And I think that's why we're friends, to be quite honest with you. I think that's the tie that binds all of us where we smile and, you know, give the chin up when we see each other. And it's the same thing that you know when that dude stand on the other side line, like, oh, shit, you know, I know what type of day is going to be. And I think that's probably the single characteristic from an ownership perspective that would attract me. to anybody in our group.

Yeah. How about you, Ra? You know, for me, we talked about this a lot, but a lot of guys spend a lot of time trying to avoid distractions. We kind of embrace those things. We kind of embrace those roles, you know, the thing that we all have in common,

I believe I'm talking about, you know, the Kyle Shanahan's, the Sean McBays, the Mike Tomlin's of the world, and all the guys in our small circle that we all know about. They're more. But we embrace this. We embrace distractions because we're comfortable

with the uncomfortable conversations. And when you can have those comfortable conversations with anybody at any level, whether you're talking about ownership, your team, your coaching staff, delivering those type of messages to people, I think those are the things that make us different. Those are things that separate us. And not to be, you know, to embrace so much of the arrogant young coach that Mike T's talking about, but I'm a little older, but I'm still an arrogant young coach because I'm the best, and I perceive myself as the best.

And not in a nasty way or a bad way, but it's got to be a mentality that's just just goes through you that way. You know, there's some jobs that a lot of people won't take in this profession because they're scared to embrace some of those things and some of those roles. Bring those roles on, man. Like, I love the role that I'm in this year. I love the role that's going to happen for us this year.

I love the role that I've been able to be put in for the last couple of years. A lot of people call those things tough roles. I call those things ways to go out to improve yourself and adjust and make those things happen. And, you know, to piggyback on what he said, I think about this often. You know, we say we were willing to have the uncle comfortable conversations, man, it was beyond that, wasn't it?

Like, we sought the uncomfortable conversations, you know, and there was a legitimate closeness because of that, you know, I'm going to make raw laugh, but, you know, me, Rahim, Joe Barry, man, we're thick as thieves, right? Man, you couldn't divide our group, man. Like, things that you wouldn't and probably shouldn't talk about in the work setting, man, we chewed on that every day. like hot topic racial issues man oh yeah hey remember we used to say if you're race

sensitive you're a racist they're probably a racist I mean real talk no man just you know it was cool to be in an environment with guys that you respected and guys that you were so close with that there was nothing that was out of bounds

and you might have a different perspective on something but we all just had so much love and respect for each other, that we always walk away from the conversations better because of it. You know, those things are very difficult to duplicate. And that's what I mean when I say that when we were there, we knew. It wasn't looking back saying, man, that was really cool. No, we knew it was cool then. We knew that environmentally.

And maybe it's just it was the men, but it's also just kind of where we were in our careers and all of that. It was cool to grow together. You know, one of the things, Peter, that I would say about Rahim and Mike, just being around these guys is just, I think one of the best compliments you can give people is anytime you spend time with them, you always leave feeling better about yourself, you know. And then these guys have such a rare ability, you know, you talk about embracing the uncomfortable conversations. What I've learned, especially being around Rahim as much, I mean, this guy can say the most outlandish stuff that you just can't even believe. And, you know, because of the emotional intelligence with the timing and telling people, just, just say, oh, that's funny, Rahim, where I'm like, if I said that shit, I might get punched

in the face. You know, it's uncanny. But, like, this gives you some insight into, like, how refreshingly secure Rahim is in himself. And, you know, and I know Mike T is a lot of the same. So we're all working in Washington. Rahima just left the bucks, okay? It's me, Rahim, Matt Lafleur, and Matt's wife, Brian.

All right? And so we open up the cupboard. We're having a couple adult beverages. and there's some bucks glasses, all right, sitting in the cupboard. And he had just left there and she says, oh, bucks, don't you hate the bucks? He says, hate the bucks. They made me rich, bitch. I love the bucks.

And that's like, that's such a great insight into like how this guy is just, he always is the glass half full. And I'm telling you what, I love being around him. He's a great coach. And, man, you know, I tell you what, you two make me feel like I have no personality being around you two guys, man. Hey, hey, Sean, I got to give you another raw story. I love it.

Hey, so he's coaching the Bucks. I'm coaching the Steelers. I come by interview rooms, man, are right next door to each other. It's perfect, right? It's perfect. So every night he finishes, you know, he comes over in our room. And, you know, everybody knows the nature of our relationship. Everybody likes Rahim.

Hakeet, not like Rahim. But, like, I cringe whenever he was in the presence to Joe Green. Because, you know, you just never know what the hell is going to come out of Rahim's mouth, you know? Is that the truth? Yes. It's legend.

And Joe's nickname is, you know, kind of well earned, you know? And, man, Ron walks in there one night, man, sees Joe, and he lights up. He's like, Joe, what's up? Your old mean ass. And Joe probably loved it. It was like an eerie silence for about five seconds. And then Joe just fell out laughing. And it just signaled the rest of us that we could laugh too.

You know what I mean? Yes. So good. I've never seen anybody like just forced themselves on Joe Green in a social type way like he's capable of doing as you outline. You know, and Sean, the beauty about all that, man, is being able to say some of those things and do some of those things because of the people on this phone and the relationships that we're able to build

and some of the things that I've learned from Mike Tomlin, I've learned from you. When you build those relationships and people get comfortable with you, you find ways to make that thing real comfortable and easy and easy to talk to, and easy to give back and forth information to. And I think that's the importance of our profession.

Whether we believe it or not, once we form our relationship with our guys, they know we're in for them, and we got no other arterial motives, and that's why they get back to us. Yeah. No, it's, you know, hey, Mike, you'll love this. So, you know, Rahim and Nikki move out here and they're getting settled.

They got an unbelievable pad. And so, you know, this little maniac Jalen that he's got as a son, all right? You know, I mean, if this isn't his dad, I don't know what is. So we're, so they're showing me and my fiance, Veronica, around the house. And so they say, you know, hey, Jalen, you want to, you want to show coach your room? He says, yeah, but first we were overlooking the patio, it's unbelievable view from the master bedroom and he can't remember my name and and he's yelling hey hey new guy hey new guy i said i said listen he's calling me new guy he couldn't remember my name he's yelling hey new guy i want to

show you my room he's running around i mean the apple doesn't fall far from the street oh hey hey i got tell this story this is another classic right man we're working in tampa my sons who are 19 and 20 now, man. At this time, you know, they're probably three and four and in that age group, man. They thought they were Batman and Robin. I mean, these dudes were cakes every day. They got out of bed, man. They put their cakes on, right?

They were crime fighters. Dude, Rahim was the Joker. Yes. Like, like, the energy that he brought to my kids, like, man, my kids called him the Joker to this day. And we'd be at my house post game, man.

The Rahim would sleep in their playroom with them on Sunday night. You know what I mean? I get up Monday morning and Rahim and my two boys are laying in the floor, man, with tapes on and stuff, man. I'm like, I kick him. I'm like, come on, man, we got to go to work. I mean, just the energy. And, you know, it's cool to watch him do the parenting thing now.

because, man, he had great parenting skills, man, and patience and attention for kids, man, that I can imagine the activity going on around his house these days. It's never a dull moment. Wait a minute, Sean. I want up on that with Mike Thomas because I can fast forward a little bit and I'm in Washington. And, you know, I got my beautiful young daughter, Maya, and she's about three or four and old Sean McBay will come over. And we have a bunch of time And he would sit there and watch

Dorah, one or two She fell asleep. Sometimes he fell asleep. That's right. I could kick him in the morning And say, let's go to work. So I returned to favor. Oh, dude.

Isn't that cool? Yes, it is. Hey, how about, do you remember, Mike T, the last time that we were all together at Rahim's wedding with Nikki and we were having a ball at the pool?

Rahim, do you want to tell that story from after the wedding day? what a blast we all had. Man, what a great day. Who knew that Sean Phelps over here can swim as many lapsed as he did. Are we doing lapsed, Sean?

He absolutely. I was challenged. It was a friendly wager on him getting back and forth. I forget the amount of times. No, you don't. It was four. He crushed it. He crushed it and popped out of the pool

and you would have thought we would have won the NFL. Super Bowl, the NBA championship, the Stanley Cup all in the same day as the pool just erupted with elation. And he jumped out of the pool like a champ, a true chance. Well, no, you and you talk about the young arrogance, Peter. So there was somebody that was part of the, you know, it's the day after the wedding. We're all hanging out at the pool, beautiful place, a bunch of good company. Somebody goes down and back underneath the water. And everybody's like, that's unbelievable. pool you know my t's like hey that's some shit right there and so i said you know what this goes to show you what a real dick i used to be i still kind of am i said i'll go down back down back under water

they're like i'll kiss your ass they're like no way you'll do this ream says you do that i'm buying shots for the whole pool yes and he starts making his call his kuku call and everything like that so now i'm telling you right now i would have drowned it before i came up failing this mission. So I come down back and you would have never let on, but I'm telling you, I was two swim lengths away from drowned and I popped up like Wolverine out of this pool. Everybody goes nuts. The music's going in the background, dove step, whatever it's.

It was a wild day at Rahim Morris's wedding. Oh, we had a ball. I love it. I love it. Rob, one of the things I love about your career is you've taken on different roles. In Atlanta, one of the big stories in the media was, wait a second, Rahim Morris is going to be coaching wide receivers, but you embrace that role. Talk to us a little bit and some of the coaches that might be listening to this about what the challenge is, what you've been presented and taking it on headfirst. Where I got lucky, man, it started from the beginning with Mike T. I don't know. A lot of people don't know Mike Tomlin played while receiving college.

A lot of people know that he embraced that offensive mentality and brought to the defense first. And that was kind of what we started our growth and development from, London office of football, being able to sit. and Gruden's classrooms, being able to be around Sean, being there to be around Cal in Washington and D.C., along with Mike Shannon. So we had this pretty nosy type mentality when it came to coaching football anyway. So when I get to Atlanta and we're there for a year, we lose Terry Robiskey to an officer coordinator to go to Tennessee Titans, and we're looking, and I'm helping Coach Quinn. I'm the assistant head coach at the time, final receiver coach.

And my advice then was, hey, I don't think you need a great receiver coach. I think you need somebody that can help out Kyle Shanahan relate to these players and make him better and help him out. And somebody he can bounce some ideas off of whether it be defense, offense, or special teams of somebody that he respects that he can go to when he needs somebody to lean on a little bit. And we turn around, we interview a couple people. He asked me call a couple guys kind of laying out the groundwork. And later that day, man, he calls me and walking around Buckhead Mall. He says, hey, how about you doing? And I just told him, I said, hey, man, I'll do whatever best for the team.

You know, kind of like Sean talks about that, we, not me mentality. And a lot of people thought I shouldn't have done it because it was set me back and put me on a different track of being a head coach. But I didn't look at it that way. I looked at another opportunity to learn, another opportunity to grow, another opportunity to advance my career and show you can do whatever you put your mind to, set an example for my kids, did it go out there and do just whatever. And also it wasn't too bad that I was going to embrace coaching the best receiver in football

with Joe. I also had Mohammed Sanoo, was able to draft, go out there and get Taylor, Gabriel, come back with Calvin Ritlin. really learn some real detail stuff about the received position. So talking about the movement, the separation skills, some of the things you need to be just a part of it. But embracing those things from young Mike McDames, a Mike LaFlead,

Kyle Shanahan, Matt LaFleur, you know, all those guys are there, having an outlet like a Sean McVe who was in the system where I can talk to and kind of walk myself through. I never forget, my first year on offense, Sean comes to me in the combine, he's all fired up. Hey, man, give it to me. Your first 33 down call, I'm like, fuck,

son. I'm just trying to find out what Tio Bow is right now. Back away from me. You know, he's all excited. And he's recapping every game he's ever played and called on office. I'm looking, I'm like, man, I just got the formation down, man. Back up. You know, but I really enjoyed it.

I really felt like it's helped me grow. It's made me develop even more. It's given me more of that young arrogance that Mike T. talked about. It helps me fit in any room. And it definitely prepared me for my next opportunity to be a head coach whenever that occurs again. You know, I think that's the thing that, you know, we, we probably don't acknowledge enough, and it probably be negligent for us to, you know, get off this call and not to share it with the listeners, man, is that, man, we worked our

tails off, man. And really, our confidence was kind of really steeped in the work. It was ridiculous how we worked at that time, man. I can't speak to you guys, but I'm incapable of working like that now, you know? I don't have a gas, man, the way we used to work. I don't believe you. But we were, you know how it is, you know I'm a sandbag, so I'm. But, like, we were around cool dudes. Like, you know, you're talking about offense and defense. Man, we talk the game, we learned the game, we worked a game from a 360-degree perspective.

We had a cool opportunity to work with a dude like Richard Mann. Remember this, Rob? Like, we'd be in training camp in a couple nights a week. we would watch practice tape with the wide outs and Richard Mann in the same room. And so we're watching us going against them, them going against us. We're watching one-on-ones. We're watching seven-on-seven. And we're hearing his coaching points, and he's hearing ours.

And not only that, but the players are too. And it was just the type of environment, the type of men that we were around, man. And, you know, we're giving flowers to Monty and Rod and appropriately so, man. But we had, man, we had some coaches, man. Richard Mann, guys like that that didn't mind sharing a space with us. You know, we benefited from that more than Richard Mann. You know, Richard Mann was a grizzly veteran, man, at that time. And so to be in a work environment where people were open to sharing space with us

and helping us get better and not turning us away when we had a wild idea like, hey, let's watch tape together tonight. You know? And agreeing to it, I just, I can't say enough about those things, man. We had a lot of fun.

We worked our tails off, but we just, we were around some grisly veteran coaches, man, that poured into us. Bill Mear, you know, not only on D.C. but on offense. We have some grisly veteran coaches, man, that raised our asses. You know what, though? And what I love about that is I've been the beneficiary of it because you guys had such

great guys like that. And then I feel like it's the same thing you guys have done to me. You know, since I got to work with Rahim, so much of what I know about the defensive side of the ball has been the teaching progression that he's teaching that you guys talked about all your years working together. I appreciate so much when we start going to these owners meetings and stuff, how quickly you kind of take me under your arm. And, you know, it's, it's that thing where you just kind of keep giving back to the game. And that's what's great about the game. You know, I think there's this narrative, hey, we can all compete and we're expecting to compete the best of our ability when we go against each other. But the best ones, they still have a willingness to share and get back

to this game. And that's what you guys have done. And I couldn't be more appreciative of it. Going back to the receiver thing, though, Mike, you'll love this. So when Rahim, you know, he's going through and, you know, is the assistant head coach and Dan Quinn relies on him. so heavily. So he says, hey, Reim, like for you, you know, you've done such a great job, but I'd like for you to, you know, what do you think about coaching the receivers? And Rehams, like, so what do you think about that? I said, well, Reham, you know, you're a great coach, you know, the game, but you haven't coached receivers, you know, how the hell that going to work? He goes, it's easy. Good job, Julio.

I mean, I'm dying, laughing. I'm falling out. I mean, but I'll say this, too. You know, and I'd be interested here this, Mike, because unfortunately, you know, it kind of coincided when we played each other a couple years ago. But I love, you know, and you've kind of touched on the relationship with you and Minka Fitzpatrick, but you talk about guys playing their best under your guys' leadership, guidance, your tutelage, and, you know, all the things that you see that your guys are really coaching to be at an elite level and to see the game through a coach's lens, talk about that relationship because I have tremendous respect for Minka and obviously what he's done since

you guys have started working together. I mean, he's established himself as one of the, if not the, the, if not the, Premier Safety in the game. Talk about that. I spent a lot of time with Maker. And guys like him with his talent level and perspective on the game required the time. And it's interesting because I just,

I've learned over the years that I probably ask more questions of him than I do. Because I want to know what he sees and why. Yeah. So that we can reproduce it on a more consistent basis. And Ron can agree with this. Man, we're you coaching players like that? They bring the best out in us.

I learned the skills to coach Mika down there in Tampa coaching John Lynch, gold jacket, John Lynch, and Rondie Barber. Right? Well, you're 28, man, coaching 29-year-old John Lynch, you know, and Ronday, shoot, I played college ball against Ronday. Man, just the level of preparedness that you have to be ready for. The challenge of coaching great players and not only great players with great physical skills, but guys with great intellect. Man, it brought the best out in us, and it probably accelerated my growth and development.

It really made me view the game from a different perspective. For example, Rondie was so sharp that I started coaching Rondie like a Sam linebacker, even though he was playing nickel. He keyed the box and he played the run and he fit runs like a Sam linebacker. And really prior to that point, I didn't know any secondary coaches coaching Nichols in that way, to be honest with you. Without a doubt, Rondy is the first nickel I saw in the National Football League, chase a puller on a counter scheme and go make the tackle on the other side of the ball and not stumble into it. I'm talking about he keyed it and played it. And I say that and I tell that story.

because it's really the same approach that I take in terms of dealing with Mika. Mika has that level of football intellect. And so, man, there's a lot, there's a lot more meat on that bone than under normal circumstances. We're in the process right now this summer of talking about dealing with his alignment depth based on the nature of the offenses, right? RPO's versus play action and formational structure and things of that nature. conversations quite honestly that you could not have with most guys. He's able to digest things and make it turn up on the field that other guys can.

And so if you don't first recognize that, shame on you as a coach. But then you also got to come up with a formula to reproduce it at a consistent level and to help him play a ball. Moni used to tell me, and Rao remember this, he's like, man, it's easy to get a C player to play B. Get an A player to show up and play A every week, you know, and it's real. And, you know, we always want to pat ourselves on the back when we get a backup and he plays good. You know, uh-uh, man, no. Like, I'm going to be interested in seeing what Aaron Donald plays like week in and week out.

Yeah, I love it. You know what I mean? Because the challenges for us and the standard that we held ourselves to as coaches was just that. Hey, forget making an average player play good. Can we get the great ones to play great every week? And that's the approach that I still hold to this day. And that's the spirit in which I coach maker. Peter, man, it's funny, man.

Listen to Mike Tom to talk right now. and a lot of coaches get pressure from the media guys, right? They get pressure from the media, whether the guys play well. No, my pressure comes from knowing that Mike Tom is going to watch my take. True, I get it. It comes from internal sources that you know who you value their opinions so high that you've got to get your tape right. And no disrespect to anybody else watching,

but your pressure should come from those who you know exactly what you're trying to get done, how you deal with mental situations like Sean talked about earlier, how your player A players play A-style foot. And I remember going to work with DeAngelo Hall, an A-style player who wasn't playing A-style football when I got there. And when I left, he was certainly playing A-style football. And those are the things that make you feel really good as a coach who kind of alluding and carried on what Mike Tomlin was talking about. You know, I still want to make those Cs feel like these, but definitely want to make those A's feel like A's every week. Yeah, and it's great.

And I work with D. Hall now on NFL Network. And he's getting better and better at the broadcast game where it's cool to watch his skills evolve. and have opinions and have takes, and he's a fantastic guy and obviously had a great NFL career. Sean, now there's this different dynamic where you're the head coach and Ra's the defensive coordinator. How's it going so far? And how much have you relied on Rahim? And Rahim, how much have you seen Sean grow in the four years he's been the head coach? Yeah, well, for one, you know, I've continued to rely on Rahim from afar because of our friendship, you know, going back to when we were just kicking it in Tampa and you never realize how many things you draw on.

until you get into this role where so much of this stuff comes up. But to have him there as somebody that's been through it, that is a genuine friend but got such a capacity for the game, he's got an elite feel with people and how to handle some of those conflict conversations. You know, I always say, like, truth is just simply meeting the truth head, or, you know, difficult conversations is really just about meeting the truth head on. And he's as good as anybody I've been around about that. Couldn't be more grateful.

And then, you know, there is something to be said. that consistent energy, man. It rubs off on people. You know, you got a tough time. You know, sometimes that you get some naturally things come across your desk, but he's on phase by it. And that helps me. And, you know, I couldn't be more grateful to be reconnected with them.

And, you know, it's been fun. And, you know, when I called him and I said, what do you think? And, you know, he's got a chance to see Aaron Donald and Jalen Ramsey and come out to L.A. said, shoot, sign me up, man. So it's, it's been great so far. You know, Pete, to answer your question about Sean, man, I tell him, I tell him daily. I try to tell him every day because, you know, a lot of times you don't hear this enough when you're in that position because people don't want to come to you because they feel, you know, somewhat intimidated. But I tell him when I think he does a good job.

And I tell him when I think he can do something better. I think that's part of my role as being able to be that honest, that truth, that truth teller to him. And to watch him in this position absolutely take control and ownership of a building. it is one of the most impressive things I've seen since I've been coaching. I am as proud of him as anybody, and not to put him as he, like, my little brother. I am. I am at all doubt,

but I am so proud to see him and how he leads the room and how he leads the team and how he leads out building and our organization in our city, more importantly. I think those are some of the things, some of the trace that's going to make him one of the EADC coaches in his league for a long time. I've been fortunate enough to be around this guy on the lower half of my screen for a long time,

I knew he was going to be a great head coach. before he was a great head coach. And I watch it evolve every year, and I watch him get better. And now I got a chance to be a part of Sean doing that. I can't be the first person to help him, man. I can't wait to do it. Sean, what do you see from Mike Tomlin that you say, okay, that's a guy that I can emulate my coaching skills after.

And what have you learned from him? Well, yeah, I mean, I think both of these guys, you know, I talked about it. I said, when you're looking at coaches, number one, you're looking at, all right, let's have a great guy, but then let's be a great communicator, a great teacher that can help bring out the best in players. You know, these guys inspire players. You listen to the way Ronde Barber, D. Hall, Minka Fitzpatrick, these guys that know, you know, and all the guys that Mike T. and Rahim have been around, they know. I mean, these guys are the epitome of what's right about the game. And then I think just, you know, I've talked about it a lot on this podcast. There's a zest for life, man. These guys are funny. Like, I just think there's so much to be said for that. You know, there's a lot of pressure and stuff like that. But it never feels that way. You know, like that stuff is a privilege. And these guys truly believe it and they live it where a lot of people say, it, but they're really, they don't really want that shit. You know, these guys, they love it.

They love the challenge of what every day entails. And I think that's why you see guys that have such a resume like both these guys just consistently bring it. And that's why I know my T was BS and about not having the energy earlier. So it's, it's been awesome spending this time with you guys. Can't tell you how much I appreciate you taking some time out of your schedule. And, you know, everything that you guys have meant to me, you know, as mentors, can't say enough about how appreciative I am for real. Hey, you know what's interesting? You know, my wife laughs at our relationships and the complexities of them.

And I'll, you know, and Rob made a point talking about the encouragement, interaction, the challenging, and things that we do and we do. We run to the fire as opposed to away from it. But it's really interesting. And, and Rod, I don't know if we've ever talked about it. But it's like one thing that we would never do is call and check on each other when things are really bad. You know what? That is. Hey, like, my wife would be like, hey, you want to call and, you know, you want to call and check on the guys in Atlanta?

I'm like, in no way would I disrespect them that way by calling. Yes. Yeah, it's like, I don't need that sympathy call. They'll be giving me that. They don't call me with the hanging there call. There's no hanging their calls. They do. And people will have a tough time understanding that about the relationships.

But the interesting thing about it is when you're really up against it, you're not going to hear from any of these guys. I love it. And, Ron, it's like you have almost too much respect to give the how you doing call. There's no question. There's no hanging there calls, Pete. In our business, that's when you know you got real friends because when you're really up against it, you don't even hear.

hear from. I love that. That's awesome. I would ask this, you know, Mike, you're going into your 15 or 16 here. Do you still have the same love for it? And how do you challenge yourself as you you get into this, I guess the second half, second decade almost of a head coaching career? How do you find yourself each off season still getting excited for that random week three preseason game that you got to coach and got to give the same zest that you had year one? Man, I think it's kind of been said kind of a lot of ways throughout this conversation. I love what I do. I love the misery, you know,

what people might perceive to be misery. Nobody loves camp like the way we love camp. You know what I mean? Wednesday night blitz meetings. What have you? Just every element of the process I've always enjoyed. And that's the blessing, I think, in terms of, you know, aptitude for the job.

Sure, there are some things that kind of come with the job, man, but, you know, you can waste a lot of time worrying about that stuff, man. Like, there's so much about it that I love, that's challenging, that never gets old. It never gets old because the variables change, right? The players, the men you work with, you know. And Ross said it earlier, and I want to reiterate it, we pour all of our energy into the experience of the men that we work with that play the game.

We got so much respect for the guys that play the game. the urgency, you know, how quickly their careers happen, the opportunity to man earn a lifetime of money in a short period of time. We've all been really highly sensitive about that and we coach in that way. Man, I've seen multiple generations of players come through here in the time that I've been here. But I don't walk around like that because the guys I'm working with aren't walking around like that. They're trying to get it right now. And they don't know how much time they got to get it.

And so I show respect to the men that I work with by bringing that same energy, by bringing that same urgency. And so I don't focus on what's going on with me. I just look into the eyes of the young men that I work with, man, that's chasing dreams and trying to make life better for themselves and their family. And understanding that if we do our jobs and prepare them and set them up for it, it's significant. There's nothing better than, you know, watching a guy you work with live out his dreams, man, is secure financial security for himself and his family and change the course of life for generations to come.

We all been in it long enough now that we can see it and it's cool, you know? That's why we get down like that. That's why we bring it all on a day-to-day basis. at work because we expect them guys to do the same thing and we want to honor them without urgency and work. That's why you see the response from both these guys, Peter, that they get from their players consistently year in and year out. You can't fake that.

And they feel it. And I always say those who know, no, and the players that are in the building working with these guys, the coaches on a day-to-day basis, you can't fake it. They see it. And that's why these guys are as great at what they do and even better people. And like I said, man, appreciate you both taking the time. guys mean a lot to me and couldn't think of two better guys to wrap up the flying coach podcast that Peter conned me into doing with him.

Yeah, that's such a con job. I mean, guys, Sean did 10 hours worth of podcast hosting in the off season. I mean, this is maybe my greatest achievement yet. It's unbelievable. I've been to do this, Sean. And yet, I think you liked it, Sean. I think you enjoyed it. Conversations like this make me enjoy it, Peter.

You're right. Let's wrap with the one thing that we've asked every coach who's been a guest on this thing. it's been the most rewarding part of this. And we'll start with Rahim, and we'll end with Coach Tomlin. If there's a 21-year-old coach who's coaching at the high school level right now, and he's wondering whether he shouldn't get involved in this profession, and he gets in an elevator with Rahim Morris at the Combine. And he says, hey, coach, what's your one tip or your one thing you would like to pass along

in the next 10 seconds that we're getting in this elevator? What would you say to that young man or woman as you take that ride with them? You know, it's funny you asked that because that happens all the time to us. And that's a part of my part to give back to these guys. And the first time I'm saying about that, so I'm not going to give him just 10 seconds. I'm a pouring to that young man the way I was poured into by Mike Tomlin, by Herm Edwards, by Lovey Smith, by Roderine Kiffin,

by all the guys that poured into me, Joe Gardy, rest in peace. All those guys invested into me. And if I came to them with a problem or question, they had an answer for me or the answer that they felt was the right one. So I like to give those guys the advice that I've given those guys is to work head up the crafts and to constantly pursue to be the best you can be at what you're doing to be the very best. Mike Tomlin told me a long time ago, man, our only job is to be the very best. And the only way you can be your very best is to go out there and force your will and your opponent.

And that's what I've been trying to do my whole career. And when you talk to those guys with that mentality, you talk to those guys with that type of energy, they'll come back and you try to help those guys, no matter who it is, where it is, or what it's for. And coach? You know, it's interesting. I get it a lot. And so I've had an opportunity to kind of shape this answer over the years. And I think one of the things that's probably most valuable looking back at it now, you know, from where I sit today, I think I would challenge them to find their voice, to be themselves.

Particularly in our profession, man, we're shaped by the dynamic men that we're. come across and we and we steal from them we gain perspective from them we learn from them and that's cool but i think you got to find your own voice if it's if it's really going to happen for you if you want to be authentic if it has to be real i think you got to find a way to take all the things that you learn but make sure that you don't lose your voice in it i think that's probably the most significant lesson that i that i learned from from being around coach dungey to be quite honest with I was around him

and it didn't take very long before I realized that man I can't do it like him you know what I'm like like yeah I was just so in awe of his manner and how he moved and I said you know I could emulate

it but I couldn't emulate it all day every day you know and so this is a guy that I had admired from a distance and looked up to obviously for on a lot of levels in terms profession and all of that. And when he hired me and I had a chance to be around him day to day,

I think that's the most significant lesson that I learned. That, yeah, I can glean information from him. I can gain perspective from them, but I better not try to do it like him. I better do it, take those lessons, and find a way to put it in my voice. And so that's why I challenge all the young guys. man, I take all my young guys and really try to put them in the presence of guys like

Ra and Sean. And that's what I always talk to them about after I said, hey, man, you know, you had a chance to break bread with that guy. You know, what did you think? Then I say, yeah, but you got to be you. Because the personalities are so strong and so dynamic that if young guys aren't careful, they'll lose their voice. and they have those own capabilities.

And I think in an effort to get the most out of what they're working with, I think that's a perspective that they can never lose. That's outstanding. I love that. Fantastic. Guys, we can't thank you enough. This was so great. I know it's your offseason.

You could be doing a lot of other things in both you. Rahim Morris and Mike Tomlin, tremendous hour of conversation. We could do this for 10 hours. And I know on behalf of Sean, I really appreciate it. And Sean, I'll let you wrap it up with these guys. Yeah. Couldn't, you know, same thing. Really appreciate the guy, you know, your guy's time.

Appreciate everything you guys mean to me. And what a great way to wrap this thing up and call the podcast career for me a finality as well. Would Vince Carter, Shaq after Vince Carter, it's over. That's it. It's done. Much love, man. No doubt. Hey, thanks, Mike T.

Rob. Appreciate you, brother. My dog. No problem. I got, man. Thanks guys so much. That was amazing, Sean. I'm still laughing.

This is why we do this podcast. This is why we agreed to do it. It's episodes like that where we see sides of guys that we don't usually see and we get a side of them that we pray and hope that we can ever access as fans and as myself a journalist. But Sean, you know those guys well and that's how you know them. Yeah. I think in the least surprising news of the podcast season, Rahim Morris and Mike

Tomlin delivered in a big way. These guys are awesome. They're fun to be around. You see why the players and the coaches that have been around them love being around these guys because of the presence, the charisma. But these are real dudes, too. I mean, they've just got such a great way. You know, I think they embody everything that leadership's about, that coaching's about.

I've got tremendous respect for these guys, two mentors of mine, two friends. And there are some funny dudes as well, that's for sure. They're awesome. And I wish you in Ra the best this year for the Rams. but it's hard not to say that, you know, pulling for Tomlin in a way, too. I mean, what a dude. He's so great, and these players love playing for him. So, so awesome to have those guys on the podcast.

And I say this with, I don't know, I've got like a sentimental tone right now. This is weird for me. Okay, so I used to go to summer camp as a kid, and the last night of summer camp, and it was sleepaway camp. I'd go away for weeks. My parents would kick me out of the house, and I would go out to upstate New York. And the last night of camp before you go back was called Nostalgia Night.

And they would play you a video of like the best moments of the summer. I loved Camp La Conda. That's where I went. But I also loved Flying Coach. And I used to get really upset on Nostalgia Night. I'm getting upset, guys. This is our final episode of Flying Coach season two. What kind of camp was this nostalgia night?

I don't even know what the hell that means. And I'm 35 years old. Very touchy feeling. Nistalgia Night was the deal where you'd show all the highlights of all the athletics that we did. And it was like, you know, I'm going to see you guys next summer, but for 10 months, I'm not going to see you. And it's, that's how I feel right now. Because now, Sean, let's not, let's not kid ourselves. Once I hang up from this podcast, you're going into dark mode and you will be fully dialed in. This was the last of the Lucy Goosey

Sean McVe that I know. And I think Andrew Whitworth hit that this week in a quote saying, he doesn't talk to you Monday to Thursday. He just waits until the game plan's ready because he knows you're in your mode. Sean, I say goodbye, I bid farewell. I feel like this is the end of a beautiful relationship. We'll pick it up in 10 months. It has been the end of a beautiful experience with Peter and Craig. And I don't know what the word is for nostalgia because this will be the end for Coach McVeigh on the podcast network. Don't say that. All I get from these fans on Twitter are like is, I'm like, I can't commit to anything. Sean agreed to one year as a favor to me. And we're having a blast doing it. But Sean, let's

bringing Craig Holbeck, our amazing producer. This is a three-person job. Let's just say that Craig does a lot of the heavy lifting on this one. And Craig, we can't thank you enough for all your work. And I think the listeners and a lot of the readers on Twitter, they appreciate your input as well. So, Sean, I'll just say, Craig, it was a pleasure working with you on this thing, man. Likewise. It's been an absolute privilege to work with both of you. And I'm bummed now to hear that Sean's out because that means I'm unemployed next season. Oh, wow. Solid guilt trip right there. I got no problem believing that you two will find a third and you don't even really need a third to make this thing as special as this season was. I feel the same way both of you guys are

saying it really has. You know, you throw the headset on, you get on here. It hasn't ever felt like work. You know, we've had great guests or first episode, how long ago that seems and how much I enjoyed the conversation. And then when you get on for, you know, these latter segments, Craig, and just working with you and you being able to kind of chop it up and make us sound a lot better than what we are. Really appreciate both you guys and you certainly have made this enjoyable for me and didn't know what to expect getting into it. But like I said, I want to do it with anybody but you, Peter and then getting to know you

over the course of this, Craig, it's been a real pleasure, Bo. It's been great. And big thanks to Bill Simmons and to all the people who have been listening and sending us tweets. And of course, to all our guests who guys, let me tell you, they do it for free. They devote hours of their lives, and the feedback has been consistent from them. Thanks for having me on. It was a different kind of media experience, and I think that was our goal, and you heard it

today from Tomlin and Raw. You heard it last week from Joe Judge. You've heard it throughout from whoever it be, Arthur Smith, Zach Taylor, Sala, LaFleur, Kingsbury, Shanahan. It's been awesome. And let's end it the way we've ended every podcast. Let's get to the emails and the voicemails, which I believe we are now calling airmail courtesy of Sean's friend from home named Rusty, who thought of that idea and kind of fed that along. So Craig Horlebeck, our great producer, what do we got this here? Let's end it the right way.

What do we got as far as emails and voicemails? All right, this one is from Zach in Des Moines, Iowa. He says, we always hear about how the players have to adjust when they have a Thursday night game, but what about the coaches point of view? How does a different time span between games, for example, Sunday into a Thursday, Monday into a Sunday, affect how you approach your week? It's an absolute nightmare. That's why the first thing that I look at when the schedule comes out is where is our Thursday night game?

Because when you have a little bit less inventory, you don't have a chance to overthink and feel like you're short in the process. Having had a little bit later Thursday night game this past season against the Patriots, I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. All right, there's too much film. There's too little time to get prepared. but you always find a way. But you don't really ever practice full speed.

If you can imagine, let me just say, hey, take seven days or six days of preparation and I'll bundle that up into three and we're already squeezed for time as it is. So you can imagine what that looks like. But I am glad that our Thursday night game is earlier this coming season. That was kind of reflected in the previous seasons

up until the 2020 year where we played the Patriots later on. But everything is condensed. If you can just imagine, you know, whatever you do over the course of two days, you're doing that in one day and the turnaround is brutal on the players. So they're the most important parts of everything that we do, but it does restrict. I think a big part of is making sure you get your rest and you're a little bit more,

you're running on a little bit more fumes, but you do get that mini buy afterwards, but everything's just condensed down into, you know, you get twice as much done in the, and one day as you would in a normal weekly preparation. Okay, this next one is from, I apologize if I mispronouncing this, Eaton from Israel, which is pretty cool. Eton. Eton. Thanks, Peter. I don't know. Eton, all right. I don't know. He said it so confidently. You're like, you're like, you know, my dad, he always tells me, he's like, you know,

because I'll say something so confident and I'll be wrong. He says, you know, sometimes in error, never in doubt. He's like, you know, you say stuff so confidently. I know I'm right. You make me question myself, you jerk. That's what you just did right there, Peter. His name is E. You don't even know. You didn't even have any spelling to even get. You know, you just decided to throw the O in there, but you said it so confidently. Craig, you and I both are thinking, well, shit, you must know what he's talking about. Let it rip, Eton. All right.

This is for Peter. He says you've spoken many times about how you don't really watch tape to see what you've done and critique yourself. How much feedback are you and your fellow Good Morning Football hosts giving each other after or during a show? Oh, that's tricky. Let's think. I think we talk about it as a collective.

Like, here's what we can do, but gosh, I would never, like, point to Kay or Kyle and be like, you know, you read the prompter wrong this time or you didn't get to commercial properly. But I think, you know, if Nate's going long and sometimes he does, and it's like, you know, Nate's going three minutes on some conversation about the Falcons and he's just listing names, I will bust his chops on air. And then he knows it's with love. And I'll be like, all right, Nate, are you done yet? You know, something like that. I'll say, whatever it is. It's that kind of stuff. But. I know, I know Kyle Brant's not afraid to shoot his shot and throw out some haymakers. What's the biggest criticism that he gives you? Get a little long-winded? Not long-winded. The shit that Kyle hates that I do and that Nate and Kay will roll their eyes in, I'll be like, all right, let me tell you why Anthony Firkser is going to have an amazing season. Anthony Furkser is a tight end from the Titans.

And he's like, all right, stop showing off. We get it. Like, you know players that other people don't know. I went big on Dan Arnold a lot last summer. Solid, solid going in on him. He's a much better player than he's given respect for, I believe. Sure. And he was a Cardinals tight end.

He's now a Panthers tight end. But by the end of the summer, when I was talking about Dan Arnold and how great I thought he was going to be, it became their joke of like, all right, let's talk about Dak Prescott. And maybe if you want Tom Brady or Aaron Rogers, we don't need to start the show with Dan Arnold talk. So that's what they'll bust my balls about a lot. They'll say that I'm trying to find that hidden gem a little too.

often. But in truth, you know, our show is pretty fine-tuned, find-oiled machine. The producers speak our language. We speak it. And if there is an actual criticism or if a segment isn't working or if someone actually says something that came off as insulting or patronizing or, worst of all, it wasn't genuine, I think we would address it in a respectful manner. But I don't, I don't watch episodes back too often. And I certainly don't like the sound of my own voice. So it's It's one of those deals where, you know, I appreciate any feedback I get as long as it's constructive, but I'm certainly not in the lab watching clips of myself all day long. So, Eton, that's Peter's way of saying he's the man.

He doesn't make any mistakes. No, film necessary. Hey, Eton, you wish you could be it. No, I'm kidding. All right, let's just keep rolling. Okay, this is from Leo here. He asks a question for Sean, please take us behind the curtain, how you contrast the personalities of the three men you've entrusted to run your defense.

How could you approach a legend like Wade about making changes to his long developed scheme? Did you have more input with Brandon Staley? Does being friends with Rahim Morris make it difficult? So essentially he's just asking like, was it hard to walk up to a legend like, like, you know, Wade and be like, hey, I don't like this. Great question. Yeah, that's a really good question. And I think, you know, number one, anything that you're doing, first of all, everything that we do, even though I'm the head coach, it's all about collaboration. We're working together.

It's not about guys working with me. It's about working with me. And I alluded to it earlier in this podcast that I heard Wade Phillips say that to his defensive staff right when we first started working together. And so you got to build a foundation on a relationship. We've got to be in alignment and we talk through a commitment to a philosophy. What's the teaching progression? And then how do we want that illustrated weekend and week out,

number one, starting with our players, how we feel like the best way to put pressure on the opposing offense. And then ultimately, how does that fit into the way that our offense and our kicking game helps us win the football game and come away with the result, putting all three phases together. And so, you know, it was very similar, but the relationships are a little bit unique in terms of, all right, how much experience you had. Rahim and I have more experience than I did with Wade and Brandon going into those scenarios. But all three of those guys are great coaches that are teachers, number one, number one, they're great men. That's the most important thing.

All right. Number two, they're great teachers. They have a commitment to a philosophy. And then they also know how to put their players in the best positions to be successful. I think one of the best things I can say about all three of those men is they've been around a lot of great players, but I don't think it's by coincidence that a lot of these great players have played some of their best football when they've been with a Wade Phillips, with a Brandon Staley, or with a Rahim Morris. And so it's about that collaboration, that relationship and being able to have that agility year and year out based on our players, our team, and then how we want to operate. But I always say, you know, we will compete with our schemes, but we're going to win with our people.

and that'll never change as long as I'm coaching. Guys could a quick follow up because I think this is interesting. Sean, you've had all these great coaches that have been on your staffs and you've elevated from within several times. With Brandon, you hired from the outside when I'm sure a lot of guys, both in the building and outside the building, would have loved to be the defensive coordinator. What was your relationship to Brandon Staley?

And, you know, he was an outside linebackers coach for the Denver Broncos and a bad Denver Broncos team. How did you identify him and how are you so sure he can get the job done? Well, it's all about, you know, relationships. Coach Judge alluded to that. there was a handful of guys on our staff or people that I had crossed past with that had worked with Brandon and spoken really highly of him.

I was obviously very intrigued to spend some time with him based on his experience and exposure to coach Fangio. I've not shied away from the tremendous amount of respect that I have for him and what the consistency that his defenses have operated with at a bunch of different stops, whether you go back

to San Francisco, Chicago, Denver as of late, but there was a lot of history even preceding those stops. that he's been at the upper echelon for a long time. And so I was interested by that. Then when you get a chance to spend time with Brandon, you can feel the ownership of the game, the passion for the game,

the relationships he's building, the vision that he had for our players. And he had really been working at it. I felt like he was ready for the opportunity. And obviously he answered the bell with flying colors. And I thought he was surrounded by some really good coaches. You know, I think you're always a reflection

of the collaboration amongst the coaches. and the players that you're working with. And I thought Brandon did a great job of empowering his staff, putting our players in the right positions. And then, you know, ultimately he did such a good job that he earned a right to compete for head coaching jobs and won that op in, you know, in L.A. with the Chargers and excited for him.

Great answer. Okay, before we get to the email here, there's one more, or before we get to the voicemail, there's one more email that I thought was funny. I don't think I haven't seen one email about this question. I don't think I've ever heard anyone ask a coach about this. He wants to know about what you think about coin tosses at the start of the game. And if you have a philosophy on coin tosses, he says,

one thing that I've always wondered is why teams keep deferring when they win. Last year, teams that scored first, regardless of three or seven, won the game 55% of the time. I know the argument is you want to score at the end of the half and double up at the beginning of the third. But is my math wrong here? Why do people still insist on deferring? Yeah, but I mean, who scores first?

I mean, that doesn't necessarily mean who takes it. I mean, we're still talking about a 55, 45% discrepancy. I would say this, you know, I thought you were asking about whether you call heads or tails at first. Oh, well, do you have that answer that too? Do you have that answer? You know, I defer to our players on that, you know, whatever their feel is. And, you know, I know Cooper Cup like to have a lot of an influence on whatever Jared would call. And he was, you know, it was uncanny the amount of coin tosses that we won when we were, you know, when we were actually making that decision.

But, you know, I think in a lot of instances, it's about. trying to steal that possession at the end of, you know, based on how you want to play out the first half, is trying to get a possession, kind of a two for one, if you will, where you get a possession before you go into the half, and then you know you're getting it out, getting it coming out of the half. But, um, like, do you have a philosophy? Does it change game by game what you're going to do? It could. I mean, I would say this, for the most part, if you said the overarching philosophy, what I've done the majority of the time would be defer, but if you felt like, hey, man, uh, you know, needs a momentum or we're going to come out. We're going to, we talk to the team about,

hey, we're taking the ball, we're going to go right down the field and score. You know, you might take the ball first. But if you said general philosophy, not kind of pigeonholing yourself into an all-encompassing approach, you know, the weather plays a factor, the wind. All of those things are the things that would be the outliers that you can't be naive to ignore as a head coach. But generally speaking, if the weather and the elements or if the specific approach by that week, you know, you're typically deferring.

So you get the ball coming out of the second half and you try to be smart with how that thing you know, unfolds and maybe get a two for one at the end of the first half. Like if you're going up against Mahomes or Rogers, what's the play there? Is it like we don't want, I mean, is that one of those deals? Does that ever matter? Like the player on the other side? Certainly, I think it does. You know, if you get behind on these teams and there's some of these teams that put the,

you know, put their freaking foot on your throat, you know, that's something that I think would certainly dictate to determine maybe a little bit different response. But it'd be a week by week, but overall, you know, I'm typically deferring, which I think is kind of a standard operating, not necessarily standard, but I would think that's the majority of the league's approach if you just look at what guys did when they won the coin toss this past year. Okay. All right. Let's get to the voicemail. Hey, Pete. Hey, coach, question for you about the night before a big game. How do you shut your brain down the end of the night so that you can get to sleep? And do you keep a notepad and a pen

next to the bed if you've got ideas? Just how do you kind of unwind yourself at the end of that day? And then the next day, how do you start it off? How do you kind of keep yourself in check so that you're focused mentally and emotionally where you peak at game time and you don't get too high early in the day? Love to hear your take on your process for that. Thanks. That's a good question. I would say this.

Peter mentioned it. My man Whitworth talked about how it isn't like to talk to me through Tuesday until Friday afternoon. I think it's trusting in the preparation. You try to settle down. I always try to get a good amount of sleep, especially the two nights preceding the game so that you're as sharp, because I am a big believer in how much that affects your mental clarity

and the ability to make sound decisions and be steady throughout the course of the inevitable ebbs and flows that a game entails. But if the weekly rhythm is in alignment and you trust your process and your players and the people around you, I really don't have trouble sleep in the night before a game. And then typically what I'll do is I'll get up. You know, I want to try to make sure I'm getting eight hours of sleep. you get up and usually go through some form of a workout to kind of get a good sweat in. And then you're kind of going through, you know, playing the game before the game with a lot of the decisions, especially as a play caller.

You know, what's the best way, you know, to put all three phases together. But it's more just kind of reviewing your call sheet, your calls, playing the game within the game. I typically am a guy that I do a lot of that kind of, it's not last minute, but you're getting those thoughts together for the couple hours preceding the game. And then I'll come out, you know, probably about 45 minutes, you know, when we're warming up before kickoff. I'm not one of those guys that's out there a few hours before. I'm usually in kind of a quiet space and getting my thoughts together. And then, you know, that's kind of that, that rhythm and that process that I'll go through. But really don't have trouble sleep in the night before a game as long as you feel like, you know, the weekly rhythm is in alignment with all the things you believe.

And Thursday nights are maybe the only exception to that if I feel like we've got to condense six days into three. From my standpoint, my Saturdays have changed drastically. So I used to do sidelines and I used to report on games. And Saturday night was just one of great excitement for Sunday because I knew no matter what a story was going to unfold. And I was able to share that with either my readers or the viewers. I'll never forget Sam Rosen, who a lot of people know as the voice of the New York Rangers hockey, for years did Fox games.

And I would occasionally do games with them. And his tradition, I loved. He would watch Saturday Night Live. live every Saturday night because he wanted to laugh and just loosen up. And he would stay up to like 1130. And I'm like, that's nuts. And Sam would love it. He's like, I watched SNL. I like it. I shut my brain off. I can watch comedy, see a musical act, turn it off. And then in the morning I start fresh. My whole thing changed when I began doing inside info type stuff and was the reporter for Fox's NFL pregame show Fox NFL kickoff. Now Saturdays are are nerve-wracking as hell. And

I'm sitting by my phone and I'm trying to get information. So on my own network, I've got Jay Glazer following me an hour after me who's going to have something that I certainly don't have. Then ESPN's got Adam Schaefter. NFL Network has Ian Rappaport and Mike Garifolo and all those guys. And they're all doing the same thing. So it's a rat race. And my goal is to get one big piece of news every week.

And it's not necessarily ankle injury or this guy's unhappy with a situation. It's a story. It's something that the coach has told me leading into the game. It's a piece of film. Sometimes they'll send me footage. Hey, here's something that is worth watching for or worth sharing with your audience that we want to call to attention to. But if I can get that one or two things that no one else has,

I know I'm doing my job and I'm earning my keep at Fox, but it has become far more stressful and far more on the phone, texting, whatever. But to Sean's point, that morning for me, I wake up at 4 a.m. Pacific time. because I got to be on East Coast hours. I got to keep that. I'll wake up at 4 a.m. Pacific time, which is 7 a.m. Eastern. And I am on the phone for 24 hours leading up to that point, just constantly trying to get information in gathering and just grinding away.

It's a lonely existence in a lot of ways because you can't do the socializing dinner. You can't necessarily go to a movie or a concert. You're sitting in a hotel room, sitting on a phone, just trying to get some information. Wow. Well, that does it, guys. Is that depressing way to end this? It's a lonely existence. No, it's a great insight.

I mean, no one really thinks about that what the lead up is like for reporters. Dude, Schefter's tweeting, Schfter's tweeting at 4 a.m. Eastern on Sunday mornings, if you notice, and Rapoport's tweeting at 4.30 a.m. Eastern. Like, it has become, and it's great. It's competitive.

It's our equivalent of, hey, there's a scoreboard, who's got what? You know, it's what we do. And it's the same thing as Sean preparing for a game plan against a divisional rival. Like, it's the same deal. And I think you have to appreciate the hustle

from everyone. And it's a billion dollar industry. We all play a role. Well, that was great. Where are we ending this podcast, Sean? I feel like, do you want to sing, you know, Shania Twain or McLaugh, Sarah McLaughlin on the way out, just kind of have a sentimental, teary-eyed, you know, goodbye? What do we want to do here? No, we're going to end this, the way we started it with excitement and joy. This was a great 10 episodes, a lot of different, you know, things that we touched on throughout. But if there's one thing that I think we would all, you know, Craig and Peter and myself would hope is that people had fun with this.

You know, you get a little bit of insight into kind of leadership coaching. You have Troy Aikman on. But, you know, guys having fun chopping it up a little bit. And, you know, what my favorite part about this whole thing has been, you know, obviously spending time with a good friend and Peter, getting to know Craig. But I've also really appreciated the different lens that you're able to see a lot of these coaches through, you know, and even just, you know, a little bit. on me, you know, we have to be so structured and strategic when you have to, you know,

get up and you're talking for the media and, you know, you still have to be cognizant of everything you say, but I think you get an insight into, you know, these are real dudes that are, you know, fun to be around, even though they, you know, they get an opportunity to do something that is a hell of a lot of fun coaching football and can be a lot of stress, but there's a lot of fun. There's a lot of great stories. And I think we've gotten a chance to see, you know, what a bar. bunch of great guys we've had on this that maybe you don't always get that perspective and a lot of the media stuff that they do or appearances when you hear them speak. And that was fun for me.

Yeah. And it was fun for me too. And I loved that we were able to provide a platform where you saw a different side of Cliff Kingsbury or you saw a different side of Zach Taylor or you got a chance to really dig into what makes Joe Judge Tech. I love that stuff. That's my dream. That's what I want to do. It's my passion. And Sean, I cannot say enough how much I appreciate. you doing this. You're not required to do this. You obviously didn't have to do this. But we thought about this about last year during the pandemic. Like, we should try doing something together for the fact that it actually came together and was as successful and as enjoyable as it was. I can't say enough about it and as you as a friend. So good luck to you this season. I appreciate you doing this podcast.

I know the listeners loved it. And gosh, you know, if there's anything that we could take from this, it's that these coaches, they're real people too. And at the end of the day, there are wins and losses. But everyone's in it for the same reason. We're all trying to get better every day. And Sean, your great media personality. And when you're done coaching, there will be a seat at any of these networks waiting for you. I'm just appreciative that you gave me and Craig a chance to get first dibs at you.

Well, I don't know about that. But it was fun. Like I said, you know, you kind of put it all together. Really happy to do this with a genuine friend. I think that also showed, you know, is that we, You've got a real relationship. I think the immediate rapport, it was just us being us. And, you know, going back a handful of years and mentioned it a couple times.

But Craig, you've been outstanding. And it's easy to enjoy what you do when you're doing it with people that you really enjoy being around. And I think that was felt weekend and week out. And now it's time for me to get back to being a dick as a head coach. Yeah, go for it. Now, on nostalgia night at Camp La Conda, the last thing we did is we would burn the numbers. They'd put them up in sticks. and then you'd burn it down of the year.

So 2021 Flying Coach, Season 2, we're going to burn it. We're going to let it go to the ground. And then, Sean, you better believe I'm going to spend the next 10 months trying to convince you to come back to this thing. Well, I'm excited to get training camp kicked off the right way. You know, with a lot of coaches and players I'm excited about. And then we'll see what the hell happens after that. Good luck, my friend.

Craig, awesome, as always. And to the listeners, thank you guys. Flying Coach, season two, that's a wrap. We had a blast. I hope you guys enjoyed it too.