The Ringer NFL Show - Most Important Players in the Super Bowl, Plus Reactions to Brian Flores's Lawsuit

Episode Date: February 2, 2022

Kevin opens by speaking with PFF’s Diante Lee and The Ringer’s Steven Ruiz about the news of Brian Flores’s lawsuit against the NFL, coaching pipelines, and what could come out of this lawsuit. They follow by listing the most important players heading into the Super Bowl.  Host: Kevin Clark  Guests: Diante Lee and Steven Ruiz Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Derek Thompson, long-time writer with the Atlantic Magazine on tech, culture, and politics. There is a lot of noise out there, and my goal is to cut through the headlines, loud tweets, and hot takes in my new podcast, Plain English. I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know to give you clear viewpoints and memorable takeaways. Plain English starts November 16th. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It is the Ringar NFL show, part of the Ringar Podcast Network. I'm Kevin Clark joined. on a Wednesday morning before Super Bowl week by Stephen Ruiz. Stephen, how are you?

I'm doing good. And pro football focuses Deonté Lee, one of our favorite people. What's going on, Deontay? I'm just glad to be back on. You know, still my mission to get on here with everybody that I have in my group chat. So for missing Ben Solac, so hopefully next time we're out, I'm able to get him on, but I'm glad to be talking with you guys again. We're so appreciative.

so much better than So lax. And so it's just so good that you're in me. Hey, and Ruy, why don't want to say it? I just, I can completely understand having a quota where there's only one Eagles fan allowed on the podcast at a given time. Are you,

USC and Eagles fan? I am. I am. So, I mean, if you want the story behind it, I mean, the Eagles thing was like 100% to needle my dad as a kid because he's a major

Cowboys fan. Okay. And then obviously like Randall Conningham, Donovan McNabb as a kid, black quarterback's a big, big deal. for me and then USC is just local. Like that's the, that's the show. Sure.

Caleb Williams, baby. Yes, sir. Almost as back as Miami, but nobody can be as back as Miami right now. So just a cut below how back Miami is. We'll follow up with you guys and you get a play caller. Still waiting on that. It's not too late to bring on so like, is it, Ruiz? All right.

Okay, so we are going to do two things. We started out with one theme of this. and we will spend the bulk of the episode on it, which is the most important people in the Super Bowl. That could be Joe Burrow, it could be Sam Hubbard, it could be Andrew Whitworth, it could be anybody, Kevin O'Connell, whoever, doesn't matter, that's it, we're going to get dorky,

we're going to get schemy, we're going to teach things you don't know. We are going to try to limit the Super Bowl so that Ruiz can't bring up Brandon Staley. I think he's going to try to bring up Brandon Staley anyway. He's a one-man, one-man ban in trying to bring up Brandon Staley. But in this, time that we came up with this and the recording, there was some major news. Brian Flores filed a lawsuit against three teams and the NFL alleging racism in hiring practices. This is

nothing short of a bombshell. It is one of the most fascinating things that's happened in the NFL in years. There is so much to unpack here and we're going to try to cover as much as possible. Deonti, I'd like to start with you. You not only are a contributor to football focus, but you're also a young high school coach. You have some perspective on this, being in the coaching world just for the last few years. Your media thoughts when you saw this news, because I don't think anybody expected this.

He was interviewing with the Saints. He was interviewing with the Giants. He's still in the process. I think you interviewed with the Saints yesterday. For this to come out now was jaw-dropping. But you thought what? The first thing is that this news strikes a very personal chord with me. Stephen knows because I've had conversations with him about this, but I have been through something similar as a coach.

So to see the news up front, like I just had like a very kind of visceral reaction. Like it messed up my day legitimately to see some of the things that are being alleged with Brian Flores in this process of trying to find a new job since I'm being let go with Miami. Once I got beyond that, like in reading some of the things that were detailed within the lawsuit, when it's illustrated that way, given the context of what this league has been, the issues that it's had with diversity, especially among like executive level decision makers, head coaches, important staff positions, et cetera, et cetera. It's just really disheartening. And then you see things like, and there are so many different ways to attack this. So I'm going to try to stay kind of lasered in on one thing. But the one that was really kind of shocking or jarring to me was the tidbit in there about the Broncos, right?

and seeing what was going on with Joe Ellis and John Elway and how unsurious they were with that end of the interview process, right? Like the story of a coach, you know, mistakenly texting a guy to congratulate him for a head coaching job because the decision was already made before the interviews have been completed. I don't think that that's novel, right? That might not even be particular to any issues of race, right? Like, I think everybody could have looked at that

and seen that, hey, you hire a GM. I'm sure that the first guy he's going to want to bring into the building is the person that he's been working with that he knows is pining for a head coaching job in the first place. So it sucks, and I hate that it's another, yet another example of a violation of the Rooney rule, but I wasn't so blown away by that. It was the Broncos information that really kind of took me aback. And then you kind of put all of that together. And, you know, and I kind of tweeted about it, but when you start looking at a guy like Brian Flores's pedigree and really holding, it up as far as like a coach on the open market and what he should be

attracting. We're talking about a guy off the Belichick tree, right? Like he's worked with special teams, he's worked a position, he's worked as a coordinator, you know, I guess not in title because Bill Belichick held the title, but we all knew his time in New England. He was doing a whole lot in terms of crafting the game plans

and putting things together, right? And you can just see the development. Like a lot of the developments that the Patriots made in terms of their recommitment to playing man coverage all the time happened with Brian Flores in tow. And that has continued since the pressure stuff too. Exactly. Like all of that cover zero stuff that, you know, that was able to kind of get New England by defensively when they weren't as talented defensively as they have been the last couple of seasons. And you see that

carryover in Miami, right? And you can look at the players that they've drafted and there have been a lot of draft misses. There have been a lot of pre-agency misses. But you can take their time there and see a pretty clear linear progression in terms of improvement, especially on the defensive end as well. obviously finishing this season on the stretch that they did winning all those games, but I don't think anybody on this podcast, and I'm sure a lot of people listening, don't believe that they were a seven-game win streak type of team, especially not in the second half of the year.

So you take all of that, you put that on a guy's resume, and you're still telling me that he can't be taken seriously as a candidate, or given the dignity of a proper interview, or given the dignity of just going through this process the right way or whatever, you know, whatever that version of right to be for someone. It's just, it's really disheartening and it just leaves me thinking about guys like Eric B. Enemy, right? Somebody who's working off a tree that has a strong pedigree, where there's been winning by guys like Sean McDermott.

Obviously, we know Doug Peterson has a Super Bowl and he's a hot name still in coaching candidacy, right? Like you saw Matt Nagy be able to hold on to a job that I think he wasn't qualified for for a while. I think off the strength of his pedigree coming from the Andy Reed tree and you see Eric Bienerty's stuck in his spot. You know, we'll have these conversations about Anthony. we land. There are a whole list of names that we can bring up in these instances. So again, to just see these guys with these strong resumes not be taken seriously out on the coaching market, it's very frustrating, it's personal to me. And hopefully, while I hate that it has to come at what I believe is the expense of Brian Flores' head coaching career,

at least, I almost want this to stretch out in court. I want a lengthy discovery process. I want everybody to have to give a deposition. I need this. this stuff to be public. I need conversations to be had and I need it to be in a way where it's not just murky the way that they were able to kind of finagle through the Colin Kaepernick lawsuit, right, and keep a lot of that stuff on

hush. So hopefully we get all this information out in the open and we can actually really address the Rooney Rule. We can address these hiring practices and see if we can actually get an improvement out of this because the way that we're going clearly has shown that people are more invested in circumventing the rules than following.

It's amazing, Deontay. And that was said because so many of the excuses that owners or GMs have or team presidents have about the lack of black head coaches or black general managers is oh the pipeline and the pipeline is broken we got to repopulate the pipeline and part of that is that the only people who get analyst jobs at 22 are the sons of coaches who are white and there's that but you see the BS of the pipeline excuse when Brian Flores who should be maybe the top coach on the market. for what he's been able to do. He would, by the way, if he never coached the dolphins,

he would be the top candidate for the dolphins if you just look at residence. Okay. And this is his experience. Okay. So I can't, I don't want to hear anything about the pipeline anymore. The problem with the Belichick texts in my book is that it shows you that a lot of people are right, everything, so many things are rigged in this, right?

And you look right now and it's not, not necessarily. This is not localized to the giants. Look right now with the Texas. They're trying to rig this thing for Josh McCown because he's friends with Jackie's. Okay? Like what, this is not a level playing field. There's no concept of hiring for the best man.

It's we're trying to hire Josh McCown because he's our buddy and he'll let us do what we want to do and maybe he's shown some smarts in the quarterback room before. Okay. D'Amico Ryan's, who obviously has a history with the Texas, where maybe he doesn't want to interview there. They should be begging him, okay, instead of rigging it for Josh McHale, right?

You look at Jacksonville right now. Reports are that Byron Left, which was a top candidate there, he wanted to bring in Adrian Wilson from Arizona. That would have been two dynamic African American executives and coaches. And the quote was, 11th hour concerns about a first time coach and GM pairing. I have first hour concerns about Trent Balthee.

Okay. I'm not waiting for the 11th hour. Okay. So that's rigged for Trent Balky being in power. And if you're a black coach right now and you're trying to get your first head coaching job or your second and four versus case, I don't know how you look at this landscape right now and say that this is anything fair. Stephen Ruiz, what do you got? I think one aspect of this story that's easy to overlook when you're looking at it from the race point of view is the $100,000 to lose a game. because this continues a pattern of black coaches being put into situations where it's impossible to win and in some cases where they're incentivized to not win. And it's not just Flores. Hugh Jackson is active on Twitter now saying that the Browns did the same thing to him. Steve Wilkes in Arizona was basically brought in to coach a terrible roster. When they got the first round pick, he was immediately shown the door.

He didn't get to enjoy the fruits of that labor. And there are other examples, David Cully. I was going to say, that you said, an example is perfect for David Cully because everybody, the day that that was announced, knew exactly what was happening with that job. And they signed up to...

That was a one-year gig. They didn't even give them a four-year guaranteed deal, according to some reports. They gave them... Everything was, okay, well, the conservation prizes it gets paid. He didn't even get what you should be paid in that spot. I mean, that this is... There are so many sham situations

that black candidates have been put in. It's mind-boggling. And that's the case. I mean, like, Josh McCown is the freaking case. To find, listen, I was no fan of David Cully. I don't think David Cully, I mean, he won more games than he should have last year. But I think last year, going through the process, David Cully's hiring was the sign of a organization that couldn't attract a different candidate. Okay.

So he gets hired because they, because, by the way, the fault there lies with Jack Easterby and Cal McNair. That's not David Culley's fault, okay? but you then fired David Cooley to try to bring in a friend of Jack Eustrabee and that to me is and first of all if you're a friend of Jack Eustraby that's a red flag to begin with good for David Cooley for not being a

friend of Jack Eustraby but that to me it's just the sham situations over and over again it's just brutal to me like and then when you start thinking about trying to be solution oriented with this another point of frustration with me is like when you look across different workplaces

or just different industries within the entertainment world, right? Like a lot of times we hear about these practices of racism, but we don't know who the executives are, right? They're all hidden up in some C-suite office. We never see their faces. They are never out in the press. We never get their names. We never hear from what they're into the process is.

Their feet aren't held to the fire. It gets especially frustrated with me in football or in sports in general because we all know who these goddamn owners are. And they still have been able to escape, critique, escape the scrutiny of going through this process time and time and time again. And this is why to me it becomes so important that for the people who can recognize, and I say this is the Philadelphia Eagles fan, right? When there was entire fallout about Howie Roseman and the power dynamics there with Doug Peterson,

everybody can look at that and point that out and say like, okay, this is a toxic workplace. And everybody has their opinions on it. And, you know, this was not a good job by Howard Roseman, et cetera, et cetera. So people can recognize it in these scenarios. but then sometimes, for whatever reason, when the dynamic of race is brought up, all of a sudden, everybody gets even handed to a fault, right? Now we have to consider all these different factors. Well, what about X? What about Y?

Maybe they're just doing this. Maybe they're just doing that. We can't assume any malice in X, Y, and Z. And not only is it intellectually dishonest, it just, it prevents us from ever advancing the conversation to what we need to do to address this problem. Because the data and the statistics don't, will never suggest. if you're looking from now all the way back to the 1930s or 20s, that there has ever been proper representation for black people, period, in the NFL, right? And now that black people make up such a large share of the population of talent here in terms of players,

that there's still these issues with getting guys set up in these pipelines, like you said, whether it's working for certain coaches that have a track record of creating head coaches or being able to get these positions that have a fast track to being a head coach, whether it's special teams coordinator, whether it's being an offensive play caller, whether it's being a quarterback coach, right, being the head of personnel, being a GM, working in analytics, right? Like there are just so many layers to this. And I don't understand how it is that we are this far along in the conversation

because I remember being a child turning on a sports center and hearing debates about the Rooney Rule. And I feel like I turn on the TV today and I'm hearing the exact same conversation from the exact same pundits in the exact same context. So I'm just, I'm waiting for the day that somebody is actually going to be able to stand to these owners that isn't somebody filing a lawsuit because we need something from public scrutiny to be able to hold these guys' feet to the fire.

And unfortunately for this, you know, when we changed gears in this conversation, we're about to talk about the biggest TV show that we'll have all year. And everybody will be tuned in and they get to cash out on it. And we'll all forget, you know, by 5 o'clock next two Sundays from now, nobody will be thinking about Brian Flore. And I think that even that to an extent is a failure on our end as a public.

Not that we shouldn't be watching a Super Bowl because I don't hate watching something that entertains us, right? And this is my job at the end of the day. But it's easy to lose sight as we go through like the sports calendar of the fact that something like this is even happening. So I'm hoping that this stays at the front of everybody's mind. But, you know, the pessimist of me completely expects that by, you know, two weeks from now that we're just talking about Odell Beckham Jr. and Joe Burrow. and not at all about what we need to do about Stephen Ross and Joe Ellis and the Broncos ownership and the Giants ownership and all of that. So it's disappointing on just the whole different levels. I think what's interesting about it is the conversation is different when it's a black candidate.

And what I mean by that is like you look at a guy like Gerard Mayo right now who isn't the full-time D.C. And obviously, as you alluded to earlier, there's always murkiness with the responsibilities with New England. but unless you have the DC title, there's always going to be questions. But Gerard Mayo does a lot, right? And I was talking to a guy a couple of weeks ago about Gerard Mayo, and the guy was like, you know, he just needs to go someplace where he has completely unambiguous play calling duties, show out, and then he can be a head coach. Well, I'm sorry, did I miss Zach Taylor, who was the quarterbacks coach for the Rams?

Like, what was he doing? Mike McHaniel, you're like, quarterback's coach of the Rams is like ninth quarterbacks coach. And that's to me. It was interesting because there's been a meme now in the last couple weeks of, oh, remember the Friends of Sean McVeigh meme? That aged poorly. Look who's in the Super Bowl. No, no, no, no, no, no.

You have to look at it the opposite way, which is that the friends of McVeigh got access to jobs that eventually either were in line for quarterback. Zach Taylor got Joe Burrow because he sucked his first year, okay? And then I ended up getting Joe Burrow. Or they got jobs, whether that's Cliff Kingsbury, that eventually you get Kyler Murray. I'm like, these guys guys. guys did not, I don't want to get into the Zach Taylor thing right now.

But what I'm saying is, is just these guys are getting opportunities that black coaches aren't. The reason Steve Wilkes doesn't have Kyler Murray is because he was fired because Josh Rosen was hoisted upon him. Okay. Like that, that to me is what's, uh, what bothers me. Okay. Uh, Stephen. I'm sorry, sorry. Go ahead. I do feel like since we are in the media, we have to recognize and acknowledge the media's role in this. I, I, I feel like, especially with Eric B. N, I feel like you heard about him being a bad interview or whatever. And there was no work done by those journalists to question the source of that information.

Like who is deciding that he was a bad interview? What standards was that based on? Was it based on old white billionaires said he wasn't a bad interview? Because they didn't like him as much as they like Joe Judge. Yeah. So I think that has to be pointed out. God. I saw a lot of those same minutes.

And now I'm angry. I just forgot about Joe Judge. Well, and I saw a lot of those insiders plotting Brian Flores. yesterday on Twitter. Yeah, like that applies to Flores as well, right? Because what's all the reporting on the way out? Oh, he's so difficult to work with. Nobody in the building likes him.

He doesn't take direction from other people very well. He can't work with his coordinators, et cetera, et cetera. And then we get this news and this lawsuit that suggests a lot of the opposite, right, which is more like there's meddling at every level that he's trying to bat away. And if you're telling me that you're difficult to work with because you're trying to run your own program while the owner in GM pairing is down your neck about losing, about trying to go sign or recruit quarterbacks that may or may not have been free agents two years ago.

You know, I think that there's also been a little bit of misdirection about the interest in Deshaun Watson from Miami. I think a lot of that is just being foisted upon. Brian Flores, as though Stephen Ross had absolutely nothing to do with that. And I don't know if that, I don't know that to be true either. So, yeah, like to your point about being in me, like we get all this reporting just kind of shove in our faces. And I think a lot of times it's easy to take it as gospel.

But, yeah, we do need to do a better job on this end of scrutinizing this and considering the source and whether or not we are actually being led in the right direction by the people who are suggesting some of these things about minority candidates. I don't think that we have enough to say that we can assume that, you know, there's benevolent intention behind all the news that we get about black or Hispanic or, you know, any candidate of color for any one of these positions, not just head coaching, but GMs, analytics, anything in personnel. Obviously, you know, the lack of ownership is its own issue as well. So I definitely agree with Stephen on that end. Stephen, if the $100,000 per loss thing is proven to be true. And Flores this morning and his legal team said that they have documentation of it.

That to me is a suspension level situation. What happens, especially when you consider how all in the league is gone on gambling. If you're literally paying for losses, bonuses for losses, that to me is one of the biggest scandals in years. I think you have to strip the team from... I mean, I don't think it's worse. Okay, but I'm only... I'm only going by the baseline

of not stripping Daniel Snyder's team. Like, they've seemed to have made a decision that they strip what? Jerry Richardson was forced to sell his team, and I think... So the Jerry Richardson thing has explained to me a little bit different. He was kind of just like,

I'm in an untenable situation. I'm out of here. I don't know this is a purely hypothetical thing. That's probably accurate. It is a hypothetical thing. But if Jerry Richardson was just like, nope, didn't do anything wrong. Keep on trucking. That situation plays out.

Certainly the timeline plays out differently. But my point is, I think in the eyes of the NFL, even though like what what Richardson did, what Snyder did and might still be doing. Yeah. Is clearly worse, like in a vacuum than throwing football games. but in the eyes of the NFL, I don't think it's worse. Like, I think they think throwing games is worse for their product. It throws into question the integrity of the league and the integrity of these results. So I think they will bring the hammer down on him and force him to sell the team.

But I do think it will overshadow the fact that black coach, another black coach, was put in a no-win situation. And I think that's really the takeaway for me, at least. The one thing that sticks with me, I'm sorry, sorry, the one that sticks with me, and I want to get your. thought to us a second is that the van Lathen came on Sunday last year

and said where is the black lane Kippen where's the guy that they just kept giving chance after chance to until eventually he got in the right role and succeeded it just hasn't happened Steve Wilkes is never going to get a head coach and job again never going to happen Lane Kiffin got chance at the chance at the chance to

fail and that is in my opinion the difference I mean to me like I look at a guy like Byron Leftwich right like why explain to me why it is that an offensive coordinator who has basically been successful for as long as he's been calling plays has to be uber selected

about what opportunities he even leaves to go interview for, not take to be a head coach but what he's even able to take interviews for. Despite working for a guy that at every opportunity that wants to get in front of a microphone to tell you how overqualified he is to be a head coach when that day comes. And the same with Todd Bowles, right?

Like to circle back to what Stephen was saying, like I do believe that if we're having a conversation about what ought to happen, you ought to have your team stripped from you for that. If for no other reason, then paying somebody to lose game is a perversion of the product at the end of the day. If we're all as consumers and you guys, all as owners are supposed to be working on the assumption

that you're trying to put forth the best possible product and we find out information that you're actively doing the opposite, you should have to lose your team. That's my opinion. Now, about the whole, like, the precedent that's been set with Snyder, you know, I think that, you know, Mark Davis is basically going to walk with all this stuff that to happen with the Raiders, kind of Scott Free.

He's not really going to have to face any scrutiny for that either. I don't expect anything to happen for Stephen Ross. Maybe you see a fine, right? If there's enough evidence found to suggest that this was real, that this has real legs behind it. But I don't think that anything will really happen punitively for Ross. But yeah, I mean, again, this just, like Stephen said, this is just another example of the ways in which people are put in position.

to fail without being given an opportunity to succeed. All right. We do have the transition to football. I appreciate both of you guys' thoughts. That was a very good conversation. So let's get to the most important people in the Super Bowl. Bengals, Rams, not the matchup. Either of us thought, any of us thought that we were getting.

Deonti, let's start with you. Your number five most important person. Number five, and I'm kind of bastardizing the rules here. because it's hard to select out any one particular. Buddy, as long as you don't say Brandon Staley, there are no rules. My fifth pick is just going to be the interior alignment of the Baylor. Right. So Quinn, Tray Hopkins, whether it's Akema Deney or Jackson-Carman,

I think one of my favorite things from watching the game against the Chiefs was seeing Identity benched for Carmen and then everybody immediately recognizing like, oh, this is worse. This is much worse right off the bat. So whatever, whichever of the two, you know, I don't, I think they're kind of picking from too bad options there. But on PFFs, and all of them have a pass protection grade of 65 or worse, you know, and we're talking about really good interior pass rush. Like, this is the game. We've seen them kind of toy around with it.

We saw it a bit against Arizona when they were really trying to flush Kyler-Murray a particular way where they were putting von Miller and Aaron Donald on the same side on any, like, obvious passing down where they could really manipulate the protection, right? and guarantee that those guys work one-on-one. I think we're going to see a ton of that in this game. And then because of those one-on-ones and the way that Los Angeles plays up front with getting everybody covered up, getting those five-down looks, there's not going to be a lot of opportunities

to help out some of these interior alignment. And if you're telling me that whether it's Spain or Identity or Carmen, that's going to be matched up against Aaron Donald on the third and seven when you know you have to convert, I know which way that's going to go. And it's not going to be pretty for the Bengals. So I'm thinking,

if they're able to at least play to a stalemate on half of those third downs, I think that that's a coup for for Cincinnati, right? You just don't want it to be a tire fire. So if they're just able to kind of hold off, hold off the dogs a little bit, I think that they'll be okay or at least be able to stay competitive in those obvious passing situation. Is there any adjustment, Deonté, that the Bengals can make or will want to make? I mean, obviously getting guys out into the route is what Joe Burrow wants. If he could have, again, I made the joke on Sunday, if he could have 10 guys out for the round,

I think he would and you would take the hits, but that's not sustainable over 60 minutes, even though a couple weeks ago maybe it looked like that. Is there any play calling adjustment that you would make if you were Zach Taylor tomorrow? So my answer almost kind of ties into the next person, I think is most important. But a lot of it's going to be based on...

Let's save it then. We'll save it. But there's going to be some personnel changes. I'm expecting from Cincinnati, based on who's available, that maybe we get an adjustment from what they do. The man's a pro. Great.

Stephen, number five. I'm going to go with an obvious answer, but I'm going to narrow it down. I'm going to say Joe Burrow, and I'm going to specify Joe Burroughs internal clock. So when I watched that game on Sunday Live, I thought he played really well. I thought he did as good as he could.

When I rewatched it on film, I thought he rushed himself a little too much. He didn't read plays out. He forced throws underneath that. I think he could have taken a beat or two longer to read the play out, and he missed opportunities downfield. And I'm not putting that

on Burrow. I don't blame him playing behind that offense line. I would be scared to hold on to the ball, too. But now you have Aaron Donald staring across from you, which there aren't very many pass wrestlers that are more intimidating to Chris Jones, but Aaron Donald is one of them. Right. And I would not be surprised if Joe Burrow is a little antsy to get rid of the ball because of Donald, no matter how the protection plays itself out, because he was doing it from the very first snap against Kansas City.

So I think that's a big deal. I think Burrow, who definitely has it in him, we've seen him hold on to the ball a bunch. almost to a fault, I think that is going to dictate how successful this passing game can be. Deontay? As far as Burrow and like his internal clock, I do think a lot of that is kind of seeing ghosts a bit from what he's been, especially coming off of that Tennessee game, right, and knowing that you're dealing with Chris Jones. And he was able to sidestep Chris Jones a few different times, especially like in the second half in a way that was able to keep drives alive.

But to that point, like, and a lot of this, again, is going to come down to, like, the personnel they have available, how they decide to pass protect. I do think that if they're really going to take advantage of the rounds, it's going to have to be vertically. I don't think you're going to be able to dink and dunk your way through. So that internal clock becomes like extremely imperative for your quarterback, knowing whether or not you can work chase pre-snap. Like can I get the ball to him in a one-on-one situation?

Guaranteed. If that's not available, then he's got to be able to eliminate that right now because we know what kind of pass rush he's going to be dealing with. You know, the Rams aren't going to throw the most exotic pressure looks in the world. certainly not to the degree that like the chiefs like to do in terms of bluffing pressure or bringing guys from different depth or angles. But they have elite pass rush and guys who get quick pressure and interior pressure really easily. So this might be one of those games where you don't see a lot of Joe Mixing out of the backfield

unless it's like a design screen. You may not see a lot of tight-in targets unless it's a design screen or a drag or something like that or you have a guaranteed matchup where it's like, you know, Drew Sample working against Troy Reeder. and maybe that's one of the few times if you try to target him. My biggest thing with Burrow is just going to be, he's going to be contacted. So if he's contacted early,

does that speed him up in a way that's going to put the ball in harm's way? Right. Like, is there a strip sack that makes him a little gun shy later on in the game? Or does he start forcing a ball into tighter windows that we usually see because he's worried about Aaron Donald getting them before he can finish his progression? And I do agree with Steve. And I think that he rushed himself a bit.

The issue with that, though, like adjusting from one week to the next is that now this is going to be a week where it's almost necessary. So I'm anxious to see if there's any overcorrection one way or the other. Interesting. All right. Number four, Deont. Number four for me is going to be CJ Uzama and his knee, really. Like, there were reports yesterday or the day before, I believe, that they were saying that there's still an opportunity for him to go play in the Super Bowl.

This is an MCL sprain that we're talking about. So whatever capacity that he's available is not going to be his usual. I would be shocked if he played at all, to be honest with you. I think that they're just trying to lay out the most optimistic timeline possible, right? Like, I don't expect him to play. But if he's not there, from a personnel perspective, it changes, I think, a lot of what Cincinnati likes to do and what they do best, right? Like, this is something that I talked about with my co-host,

Seth Alina on our podcast is how predictable the Bengals are in terms of, like, their run game versus past game based on the personnel that's on the field and whether or not Burroughs under center or not. And one of the things with Drew Sample, who's their backup tight end is he's not a receiving threat. So they bring him in essentially to be a sixth offensive lineman more times than not to help them run their outside zone stuff. The issue with that is that when Sample's on the field,

you know it's going to be outside zone and you know they're going to be under center. And you can see in the Chiefs game, anytime Joe Burroughs under center, the Chiefs are just teeing off coming, their linebackers are all the way downhill trying to stop the run. And if the Chiefs can pick up on that tendency and be good at stopping the run in those circumstances aside for them kind of letting go of the rope after that pick and overtime.

I think that, you know, it makes it that much more difficult for Cincinnati to be able to control down and distance situations, control the clock, you know, if they have the leave and things like that. And then adding that to the past game, Sample only has 16 targets this year, including the playoffs. So that's clearly not a guy who's going to be involved at all. And a lot of those targets are like bootlegs or he's running out into the flat or check releases where he's chipping on. to end and then just sitting over the ball. So it's not even like he's pushing guys down the field. So if you're telling me that you can't stress out a guy like a Troy Reeder, if Darius Williams or whoever else is in the slot,

you're not able to kind of work those high lows off of their interior defenders because you don't have use them as that underneath option. You can also create yards after the catch. That is a concern for me long term for Cincinnati as well in terms of like generating enough plays to not have to go get 10 to 12 to 15 yards that often. So I heard you and Seth talk about that on the PFF podcast, 2I podcast.

And you mentioned that the chiefs were teeing off on the Bengals and just the tendencies. And your theory, your guys's theory was that there's not a lot of variety in the Bengals offense, which leads me to this question. We've not gotten you on the record in the ring NFL show. Everybody else has been on the record. Do you think Zach Taylor is a good coach? No.

Okay, good. Just want to just. I don't think that he has the most inventive offense, right? Okay. Let me try to divorce. Maybe he's a culture guy. You statements or whatever. Maybe he's doing something.

Clearly he's doing something that's working because these guys don't, these guys are too young to know better and he seems to be leaning into the fact that his group is kind of like too young, naive and just like relying on their own talents to kind of fold, especially in those situations like being down 21, 3 at half to a team that's already won a Super Bowl and playing at home. So something is working there. I just don't think that he split together the greatest offense in the world. A lot of this is just Joe Burrow, go make a play.

joined it. Yeah, extremely. And we talked about this with Cliff Kingsbury, I think the last time I was on, like, these got these offensive coordinators who have like these clear like divorces within their offense, right? So with the Bengals, it's under center versus shotgun. It's 12 personnel versus 11. Like their offense changes dramatically based on just like these simple splits. So if you're telling me in a Super Bowl scenario that that's the kind of offense you're walking in the door with, I am going to have my concerns because I've seen another predictable offense that operated at a very high level with the head coach on the other side with Sean McVey when he had Jericho in 2018.

And what do we see against a talented and well prepared defense? All of a sudden, all the things that get you eight, nine yards, you know, as like a layup in the regular season and against most teams, now it's not there because this one particular thing takes all that away. So that's been a concern for me all year long for the Bengals, definitely in the playoffs. And I think that's been reflected in the fact that they've basically not been explosive at any point outside of the second half in the Chiefs game.

Yeah, we're all on a same page here at the NFL show. Stephen number four. All right. It's time. It's Brandon's... Oh, Jesus Christ. This is going to... I'm going to make... I'm actually interested on this. I bet it's going to make sense.

Okay, let me just lay out the fact that Raheem Morris is basically running his interpretation of Brandon Staley's defense this year. So I think it's important to go back and watch how the Chargers defended the Bengals offense. No, no, no, no, I'm sorry. I forgot that Brandon Staley invented

putting two safeties back there in 2020. I forgot that he was a guy who said, that's right. I know there's one safety back there, but what if we put two? I forgot about that innovation last year to change the NFL forever and not the fact that you get it with Aaron Donald and Dillon and Jalen Ramsey. That's right.

Okay. But here's the thing. You go back and watch the game. It was a very, it was a, Yeah, I'm brushing off all year. It was a very unique game for that offense, for that Bengals offense, and how they were, how they were defended. It was by far the most quarters or cover six coverage they saw all year, by far. It was by far the most times they isolated Jamar Chase on the backside of trips.

And I think that's a big deal with how the Rams and how Staley plays his coverages, especially against three by one. And if you look at Joe Burroughs game lock, and maybe this, is just coincidence. But the teams that force him to make those outbreaking throws by playing quarters, the teams that do with the most, those are the teams that have the most success. He was like one in four in games where he

faced, where he dropped back 10 or more times against quarters. And in that Rams game, or in that Charter's game, he threw 14 outbreaking routes outside of the numbers. The closest game to that was eight attempts. Eight such attempts. So the Rams, or

I keep saying the Rams, Rand's Staley and the Charters clearly saw something on tape. and devised the game plan that made the Bengals do something that they don't normally do and they don't want to do, and it was one of Joe Burroughs' worst game. And then if you look at the Broncos game, what of his other worst games, another Stanley Fangio coach, another coach off the same coaching tree. I think this matters. I think you have to go back and watch that game to really get a full picture of how the Rams are going to attack his Bengals offense.

He's a second off. He saw the McVeigh offense that one year. Remember that? Hey, he did, though. He won the Patriots Super Bowl. He's not a good coach, but he did. Actually, I think there's some, no, there's just some merit to that. And, you know, knowing the way that the Rams like to play defense,

I think that there's reason to believe they played a decent amount of quarters against the 49ers. Like, obviously, there's a lot more single high than they usually play. But even when they were playing quarters, they were able to stop the run. So if you're telling me that based on what they do up front, they're able to stop the run with too high safety still. And that allows you to take away some of the run. of those vertical passes, you know, and you're able to squeeze routes in the middle of the field,

right? And I think Steve and I were just kind of joking before we got on the show about, like, the fact that Eric Weddell's been balling for the Rams, right, like in this playoff stretch and how improbable that is. I mean, we'll kind of get to, at least I'll get to what I think about Jalen Ramsey and the rest of this defensive backfield. But if they're able to live in those worlds where you're able to squeeze a lot of those routes or get presents over the top one in your Mar Chase, and now you're forcing Burrow to make, like, the pure arm talent throws, right? Like that's kind of what he's talking about with those outbreakers,

anything happening outside the numbers. It's not just like a one-on-one 50-50 ball. If I'm telling a quarterback that you've got to have the better arm talent in order to beat me down in and down-out, that is the pathway to at least causing this offense to stall out, right? It's much better than like what you would see from the typical Raiders team, which is why they were so successful in the first half of that game. You can just look down the field and see, okay, one-on-one everywhere.

Do I have the corner wide receiver matchup by a line? like if I do, I'm taking it. Mudding those pictures, I think is going to be a big piece of the game plan. And I think that, you know, again, not having Uzama as a guy to work in that interior with these passing concepts, if you're telling safeties, even if they're in cover four, that they can play deeper and further outside, outside of like helping out on T. Higgins, that adds a lot of value to your coverage. So I do think that there's some merit in that.

I don't know how he squeezed Brandon Staling in and got me to believe, but I'm on board now. That's what I do. We're cutting this entire thing. People don't agree with my takes. We're not publishing this pod. Okay. I do think this is a good way to differentiate between different two high coverages because the Chiefs played a lot of too high, but they played a lot of like cover two and Tampa

two where their corners are playing in the flats. That's a problem for two reasons. One, because Jamar Chase and T. Higgins can obviously take advantage of that space downfield. But two, it also forces your cornerbacks to tackle and the Chief's cornerbacks cannot tackle. And they had no interest in tackling. And that was a big reason why they lost both of these games. Right.

I think playing cover four, you keep those receivers in front of you. You're playing deep naturally. You're not giving up those fades. And then you just got to rally and tackle. Jontzai, number three. Number three for me is Jalen Ramsey. And it's really, again, it's kind of like a combo. It's like Jalen Ramsey plus Darius Williams, right?

But a lot of this just comes down to how is Jalen Ramsey going to be used, right? Like, are they going to use him as a nickel guy against Higgins? Or are you going to use them outside and, is Chase. And what you'll see when you watch the Rams is the way they play these two high defenses change based on where they want Ramsey. So if Ramsey's outside, you're going to see a lot of that Brandon Staley-esque stuff or you're still playing one-on-one on the back side, which you're using that safety to kind of roll over the top to like the three-by-one or the passing strength side. So you just get more numbers that way. If you're able to live in that world

and Jailen Ramsey is able to play at that A-tier, top tier, near Hall of Fame level talent that we know that he is at his peak, then there's nothing for this fangles offense, really. You know, on the flip side of that, if you can't do that with Ramsey or you don't feel comfortable with that all the time, you can also put him inside and run your quarter stuff, your cover four stuff over Higgins and kind of take away some of those in-breaking routes that they were able to take advantage of the Chiefs and the Titans with. The issue with that now is that you've got to roll a safety over the top of Chase with William. So if it's Williams and Weddle, I mean, it's nice to have two bodies on that guy,

And I've been waiting for the regression half of the chase, but every time I think it's coming, he wins another one-on-one ball or beats double coverage again. So that's kind of like the chess match to me that I'm looking at on the perimeter for the Rams is how comfortable are they? We've seen them kind of mix it up, sometimes to their own detriment with where they place Ramsey. But I'm interested to see if this is the week where they say,

all right, man, we brought you in. You've got to earn your money now as the number one corner. Go take care of chase so that way we can take away the other four receiving threats on the field. Stephen had it. That was my answer to. So I'm just going to build off what he said. And I'm going to bring up the Chargers game again. Go back and watch that Chargers game.

They tried to cover Chase one-on-one with 43. I think that's Michael Davis. I'm not sure. Yeah. They tried to cover him one-on-one and push that safety to the other side, to the trip side. It didn't work. Chase was bullying him. And they couldn't live in that world.

So they had to start playing more quarters. and that opened up things for T. Higgins on the other side, and that's why Higgins had a lot of targets in that game. He was like the number one receiver in that game. If Ramsey can hold up in coverage in the way that Davis couldn't, I think that makes life a lot easier for Rahim Morris, and I think he's going to be able to take away the concepts that Zach Taylor goes to when teams sell out to take away Chase.

And he's going to be able to do that without selling out to take away Chase because he has Ramsey, who is a one-man wide receiver a racer. And I think Ramsey really, I think this matchup is really going to decide the game. I'm going to write about this next week. But I think if Ramsey can cover him one-on-one, I don't know if the Bengals have a chance to keep up with the Rams offense, assuming that

Matthew Stafford doesn't do Matthew Stafford things. I mean, honestly, if you're just taking like athletic profiles of players, you're not going to find a DVD that Ramsey. Like just on paper in terms of height, speed, and physicality, right, and it's technical proficiency. Like, Ramsey is a guy you've been making a lab

hypothetically to be able to take away some of the things that Chase does best, especially at the catch point, being a bully, being able to shove guys off and create space, using his arms to be able to create space off the line of scrimmage as in releases, being able to create after the catch by breaking tackles. We know that a lot of these things are also strengths of Jalen Ramsey in terms of playing tight to receivers, being able to tackle in space, contest the ball, play with length, all of that. So selfishly, I hope that Rememworth's game plan is.

that wherever chase is that, they're going to put Ramsey there and roll the coverage in the opposite direction. And I think that that will be kind of like the star matchup of the game to get it that way. If he bullies Ramsey, he's the greatest receiver ever. I'm going to stop getting upset

about the Randy Moss comparisons. I'm going to be like, yeah, I'm going to bowing to chase. He does it again in Jail and Ramsey on the rest of his career. I know you guys said that if Ramsey takes away chase, it might be over. Is there a path? Like, so let's say we get out there and, and Rams just shutting out chase.

The Bengals path to win that game is what? Does it exist? Like, is there any, like, I guess I'm asking, is there a plan B? I know you said that you think that the Rams would win in that scenario, but is there a plan B? I mean, maybe Zach Taylor can't make the adjustment, but is there anything where you're just like T. Higgins can. Short of, short of, uh, C.J. Mixon having, like, the yards after contact game of his life as a runner and T. Higgins going for, like, 190 yards and two touchdown. I just don't see it.

Because again, like, we're just talking about degree of difficulty, right? And if you're telling me that one of Burroughs favorite targets is already probably out and CJ Uzama underneath, right, which is a big piece of, if you don't have this vertical look to be able to take this guy underneath that can go get you yards after the catch, which has helped him out against some of these two deep shells. If you're telling me you don't have that, you're telling me that your number one receiver, your explosive play guy is out of the game. And you're going to be dealing with the amount of pressure that I think that he's going to be

dealing with. The margin for error on this is almost non-existent now in terms of being able to score a point to sustain drive. So I just don't, I don't know what the plan B would be outside of Joe Mixing just having the game of his life, which is not beyond the pale. He's obviously a very talented running back. It's just, I would not imagine that a running back would be what would beat this, this Rams. Sure. It's, it's, it's, it has to look similar to what the Packers did to the Rams last year in the Super Bowl, where they kind of manipulate it. the run box and were able to get light boxes and they just slammed AJ Dillon

into those light run boxes. And then Aaron Rogers didn't really have a great game. He was just thinking and Duncan. I think that's what Joe Burrow would have to do. That's what it would have to look like. It wouldn't look like anything we've seen from this Bengals team, this Bengals offense when it's at its peak,

but it would be far more effective than running the same stuff if Jalen Ramsey is having that success. Deontay, number two? Number two, this one might be a little unconventional, but it is a running back. It's can't make. right now, averaging less than three yards per carry.

You know, I felt like I was watching it with, like, biased eyes because I just think it's so incredible that a guy who tore his Achilles is even playing right now. So, like, any time he gained more than six or seven yards, I would be like, oh, it's over. The Rams ever run, the Rams ever run game, too. This is over. They're just going to walk through the entire playoffs. Have you obviously not been as productive.

I mean, playing Tampa Bay and San Francisco, two elite run defenses with great front players, doesn't help much in that way. way, but he's obviously not as explosive. And it may not just be Cam Acres. It might be Sony-Michel, too. I guess they have a pair of running backs have bad lower bodies right now that don't have their explosiveness. But if they're able to generate any kind, any semblance of a run game against Cincinnati,

to be able to take some of the strain off of Matthew Stafford, I think that would be a big windfall for them in terms of generating offense, setting up play action shots, which the Bengals have struggled against all year long. I think about that Green Bay game, which is another team that, you know, at their best, they don't really want to run the ball, but if you give them the opportunity to when they're able to build their offense out of that, they're really going to be able to manipulate you in terms of creating those play action shots on those overrouts, the posts. We've seen Matthew Stafford get guys over the top, you know, with these play action looks.

So I'm looking to see if they can get any semblance of run game early, be able to force them to play more single high Cincinnati's defense, or just be, even if they're staying. in those two high shells, forcing those linebackers to play closer in opening up that intermediate area. And one of the things that we did see with Kansas City that still bothers me today is that they kind of ditched the run game when it was successful against the bank. And they were doing that from a lot of spread looks. And we know that the Rams can still get into some of these condensed sets and be able to run the ball downhill, whether it's their duo or outside zone, using their wide receivers as blockers and all the different ways that

they're able to dress up their run game. So if you can do that with any level of success, in Super Bowl Sunday, then I expect this is going to be a relatively easy march up and down the field against the Bengals defense that I still think it's kind of fraudulent. I think for as much shit as we give Zach Taylor and his coaching staff on this podcast, they out coached the Chief. Yes. 100%. A way better job on both sides of the ball. So I will give them credit for that. Shout out to Big Lou.

Big Lou and Aruma. Yeah, no. I mean, they've been great with adjustments, especially in the postseason, right? like all three of their games that they won, I think have come on the backs of some defensive adjustments that helped them, you know, and turn over alex a piece of that as well, but even just on a snap by snap basis, I think they've done a lot of good things to be able to take away what offense is like to do best. I'm not going to elaborate on this, but I'm putting Tyron Matthew on washed, watch, by the

way. I don't know if it's a watch. I have the chiefs are on it at this point. We might have something where we might have some relatively, you know, some relatively strong evidence to suggest that that's confirmed. If that was 2019 Honey Badger, let me just say that he would have picked at least two passes. At least one. I'll say one.

There was one pass that 2019 Matthew picks. But that's besides the point. Wow. Wash. Watch. Do you want to put anybody on Fraud Watch real quick while we're here? The NFL. Yeah, I was going to say Steve Ross. Yeah.

Steve Ross, John Marr, the Mayor family, John L.A. The whole league. Who's your number two? I'm going to go with Jesse Bates, and I'm going to throw the Bengals linebacking core in there. Logan Wilson, I guess is the best one of the bunch. I just think those players have to make at least one or two plays.

They have to come up with a turnover against this offense and how they operate and how they attack the middle of the field and put stress on safeties and linebackers. If they don't do that and Matthew Stafford does not make a mistake, and doesn't give them that chance to do it. I don't think, like I've been saying, I don't think the Bengals are going to have a chance to keep up because I think the Rams will score,

and I really like this matchup from the Rams defense perspective. DeAte, Jesse Bates? I actually like Bates. Like if we're talking about like some silver linings on the defense that I'm not the biggest fan of. I think that he's played with great instincts. Obviously, you have that pick in the first game against Tennessee, where he played with, like, great eyes and was able to undercut a route that he knew was coming.

And I think that because of what he's able to do, and you can really see this in the second half of the Chiefs game, the way that they're able to kind of mess around with the other coverage defenders or, you know, be versatile with other guys in a way that allows Bates to still be over the top of everything and have vision and be able to play, you know, over the top of all the defense and protect things that are happening in the scenes. And you can obviously see that against the Chiefs, an offense that wants to attempt. you up the seam at every opportunity, right? So being able to use Von Bell spinning down to be able to take away some of those intermediate throws because you know you're protected behind you. You can see it in their corners, right? Like Eli Apple sometimes will play a little bit more aggressively than you would assume

for a guy of his abilities based on, I think, his trust in what's happening behind him with his safety. So he can definitely be an impact player. The biggest thing to me is going to be like those play action designed shots to a Van Jefferson or Cooper Cup, right? is he always going to be disciplined because he's not going to have a margin of error to miss. So if he drives down on some Odell Beckham crosser, Cooper Cup crosser, and the ball gets thrown over his head, I don't believe that the corners that he's playing with are going to be good enough to cover for him,

you know, if he makes an aggressive move in his wrong or guesses in his wrong. So I do think a lot of this is going to be based on whether or not he can take those measured risks and the times that he does whether or not he's right in doing so. Because if he is, I think that that can eliminate a lot of the work that L.A. wants to do in between the numbers. And if not, then, again, we're talking about, like, real dangerous zone, you know, for this defense, I think. All right. Moment of truth, Giante. Number one. Number one for me is the guy that I have been pining for, basically for the last half of the year, really all year long. And that's O'Dell Beckham, Jr.

Oh. Not only do I think the outcome of the game kind of banks on his. performance, I think the margin of the score will also bank on his performance. And this is, it's not even really exclusive to Odell, because you could probably say the same thing for Jamar Chase, but what it means to have that one-on-one receiver that just cannot be guarded on the backside of these concepts. And you can just see now, you know, with two, three months of sample size that Matthew Stafford has become very, very comfortable working through his progression with the knowledge that he has Odell on the backside of any one of these concepts.

that he can get to. And you can see that, like, on these third down situations, it's Cooper Cup, are you there? No. Well, I know that O'Dell, who is working this backside dig, right, or working in this intermediate area, is probably winning if he's one-on-one against any corner in the league right now.

So that has been, like, my favorite revelation of the playoffs is to see O'Dell be O'Dell again and be that unguaritable force. And if he's that on just five or six plays against the Bengals, that'll probably be enough to get the explosive plays that L.A. needs to get into the red zone. Obviously, we see him as, like, a fade ball threat at the goal line. So now you can punch the ball in. If you're in a third and goal situation and you don't like what you have in terms of the run game.

And he's been their number two target behind maybe the best five receiving the NFL this year. And if you're telling me that Odell is your number two walking into the Super Bowl with Matthew Stafford in the way that he's been playing against man coverage and against the blitz and all of that. If he breaks loose in this game, I think that, again, we're talking about a multiple possession lead. I think that L.A. can build up relatively early in the game. Deonti and Odo Beckham Senior are the two biggest O'Do Beckham fans out there. Good dad. Good dad's only.

Stephen? O'Dow Beckon. Yeah, I totally agree with everything he says, especially with the type of defenses we've seen Cincinnati play. I think you need to have the guy to threaten the parts of the field that O'Dell Beckham threatens. The same parts of the field he was threatening in Cleveland, by the way, the quarterback just couldn't get him in the ball. But yeah, he might be the most important player outside of Matthew Stafford, which is a given

because he's the quarterback. He might be the most important offensive player for the Rams, in my opinion. All right. What's your number one? My number one is Rahim Morris. We kind of hinted at it throughout this. We kind of talked about the different game plan choices he can make. And I think it really comes down to him and those choices and whether they work out, whether

this game is competitive or not. On paper, the Rams are clearly the more talented team. I think that they've also shown a floor that's lower than the Bengals floor. So there's a change. I'm not saying that the Rams are definitely going to win. They're going to blow it out. But if the Rams play their A game, I don't see this game being competitive,

especially if Rahim Morris' game plan is as good as I think it could be. And if he deploys Jalen Ramsey the right way, he keeps Aaron Donald free and keeps them out of double teams. He utilizes Von Miller to do that. he protects Troy Reeder, the linebacker. There's a lot on his plate in this game, but I think he has the tools to do it. I think he has more than enough talent to work with.

And if he gets the game plan right, I think the Rams are going to win the Super Bowl, and I don't think it's going to be close. He also is not really getting a lot of buzz for head coaching jobs, even though he's put in an impossible situation like a decade ago. So just a little FYI there to tie it all together. Diatu, what do you, what do you, I'm sorry, go ahead. No, I was just going to say a guy that's working on office.

and defense. Been a head coach before has experience working with rebuilding franchises. Hey, but, you know, no. So with the Falcons as head coach last year and had them playing better. He's no Josh. He's no Josh McCown, okay? What can you do, man? What are you expecting out of, out of Rahim Morris, Giante?

To me, I think a lot of this just kind of comes back to some of the things that we talked about, you know, throughout the podcast, right? Like, just how you deploy your stars. This is what you have your stars for is to give you the versatility that you need to be able to handle an offense that we've seen be able to win a multitude of ways at this point. That's what this is all about around. How are you going to pair up von Miller and Aaron Donald? Are you going to put them on the same side? Are you going to put them opposite?

Can you mix up what you do with Winter Floyd? Right. Sometimes he drops. Sometimes he comes. Are you able to mix that up? Can you protect Troy Reeder in the middle of the field? I think that they've been able to get by with him as a linebacker, although I will say. say, you know, after this season, I would not hate if I did not have to watch him play

middle linebacker for the Rams any more. But they've been able to make that work. He's maximized Eric Weddle, you know, two years out from playing football, which is just blown my mind every time I'm watching. So he's done, he's done pretty well with the game plans. Even the Bucks game where you have that furious comeback, a lot of that is obviously turning the ball over in situations where they could have put the thing away and kind of forcing their defense to be on the field for a lot of that third quarter early into the fourth quarter as well.

So I think that he's been great. You know, for all the consternation that was given about him not being granted staley throughout the season, especially when the Rams were kind of hitting some lulls. I think that this has been a great postseason for him in terms of putting together game plans to affect the quarterback in terms of pressures, seeing the, seeing the 49ers, which is the team that had a lot of success on the ground against them, loading up the box when it was necessary, eliminating George Kill and Kyle Eusecheck from the game, you know, being able to take the ball out of the players to affect the game most is something

that we've seen from him. And this is the ultimate test of that between Jamar Chase and T. Hayden's and then obviously trying to affect Joe Burrow. So, yeah, I think a lot of this also kind of falls on the shoulder of him. I think you can probably make the argument that it's more on his shoulders than it is on Sean McVease right now. Wow. Okay.

Guys, this was great. And do either of you guys think that the Bengals are going to win the game? I haven't picked him to win any of the first. Yeah, I think they're going to win because they defy all logic. This is a wildcard team that is in the Super Bowl and has beaten the Chiefs in Kansas City after playing in a competitive game at home against the Raiders. I watched Las Vegas like eight yards away from eliminating this team. Like, I'm sorry. I'm not a believer.

I can't. I haven't been a believer all year and I'm not changing now. When they were a race in 21 to 3 lead, a deficit against the Chiefs, I was just like, yeah, this tracks. Like with everything else. I don't know why it's happening. People like Bengals fans were like, was not even playing this well. Okay, well, like, Ivan, I don't know what's going on. Like, Big Lou is the most dominant force. Big Lou, man.

The history of football. The last thing I have to say is just like, I, I guess for my own personal sensibilities, I cannot stand for Tom Brady retiring in the NFL automatically generating another quarterback that has four-leaf clovers falling out of his ass. I'm sorry. I need, I need this to be, I can't have another all-luck quarterback, or the luckiest quarterback winning super. I will never forgive Nick Bolton. for dropping that interception.

Which was Weed-esque if he threw it? Gropolo Wentz-esque if he had caught it. I will never forgive him. Okay. It's time. We just did Garapolo Wentz-esque with Joe Burrow. We need to end this podcast. Bye guys.

Thank you to Stefan Anderson for production help, additional production provision by our Juno Ram, Kvold. He's been the Ringar NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network.