The Ringer NFL Show - New Bears Look a Lot Like the Old Bears, With Josh Norris

Episode Date: September 9, 2025

Josh Norris from Underdog Fantasy gets together with Sheil to analyze the Minnesota Vikings’ comeback win against the Chicago Bears on ‘Monday Night Football’. They begin by breaking down why Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson fell short of expectations, before heaping praise on QB J.J. McCarthy’s in-game turnaround and the Vikings' stellar coaching infrastructure. Sheil ends the pod with a breakdown of the San Francisco 49ers' injury woes, and how Kyle Shanahan will adjust going forward. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.rg-help.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Sheil KapadiaGuest: Josh NorrisProducer: Chris SuttonSocial: Kiera Givens and Brian WatersProduction Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm your host, Shield Capadia, joined by my friend Josh Norris from Underdog Football on YouTube. We just got finished watching Bears Vikings, which looked like, you know, might be a dud after the third quarter, but another unbelievable finish like we got, not the same like we got on Sunday night, but another great finish.

And Josh, this game carried so much intrigue because we had unanswered questions about Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson and J.J. McCart. and Kevin O'Connell, and we got to talk about all of it. But I need you to answer this question for me. Who is more bummed out the day after? Bears fans after this game or Ravens fans after Sunday now? I think it's the Bears fans.

Ravens fans know that they have a team. They know they have a Super Bowl contender. But Bears fans, which we'll get into, are uncertain if some of the same warts that showed up during Caleb Williams' rookie year carried over into his second year. I agree with you. Yes, Ravens fans can get over it pretty quickly. 17 game season. Bears fans, we'll see. So let's take a break. We'll come back. Let's get into it. I want to start with the Bears.

And then, of course, we got to talk about the Vikings. This is the Ringer NFL show presented by Fandul. And the NFL is officially backed. So if you're going to be in it, be in it with Fandul. They've got the goods, futures, live betting, SGPs, Your Way bets, all of it. The apps clean. It's fast. And yeah, when you win, you win. get paid instantly, which is nice because Sunday patience doesn't exist. So get your bets in, build something bold, and make every game feel bigger. Download the

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Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Call 1-88-78-98-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Paid endorsement. All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. Josh, normally I like, you know, I'm nice. I give the guest the first, but I have a take I need to steal it. Be selfish.

Yeah, I just want to hear what you think about it. And I think you might agree with me based on what you just said in the intro. But let's see. My big takeaway from this game is that the 2025 Bears looked a lot like the 2024 Bears. And this version of Caleb Williams looked a lot like last year's version of Caleb Williams. Now, Bears fans settled down. I understand it's only one game. I'm not going to say it's going to look like this all year.

But honestly, if you wouldn't have told me that they brought in Ben Johnson and a new coaching staff and a new regime, I would have just assumed they kept Matt Eberfluse, and they're just giving it one more, giving it the old college try one more time. I mean, they blow a 17-6 lead at home in the fourth quarter to a quarterback making his first career start. And then we'll talk about Caleb Williams, but I really felt like it looked like the same version of Caleb Williams to me as last year. Am I nuts? Do you agree? I think you're slightly nuts, but also on target otherwise. Let's unpack this, okay? It's with a few different layers to it.

The first one is, I agree that some elements of bad Caleb Williams last year popped up here. And namely, as you know, Sheel, he was one of the statistically worst downfield passers in the NFL last season. And what we saw in this game was sailed passes all over the place over the sideline and even over the middle of the field in crucial situations. On that fourth down, just completely out of reach to an open and much-needed target there. The other aspect, though, here, Sheel, is I do think it was different for Ben Johnson, at least on the first drive. The script was very good. And we got there. We got that first touchdown right out of the bat, right out of the gate.

But then once we'll get into it, so many punts, turnovers, you know, punt blocks, misfield goals, all that type of stuff. I will say, the one area where Caleb Williams did look so much better this year was the scrambling in terms of he just looked fast. He looked electric. Now, how much can that Houdini-like escape artist stuff carry over week to week? I'm not sure. But in a game against a Brian Flores defense where you have to have that, he did have that in this contest. I agree with that. He looks like supercharged Patrick Mahomes where the thing about Mahomes is like he's just faster than whoever is chasing him.

That's his like top speed. But Williams was getting to the sideline. And he was moving. So yes, I agree with that. I even thought, though, on that first possession. and he was playing well. They were moving the football. It still, to me, looked like last year's version of Caleb Williams.

Like, he is a guy who can make the 1% throws. I mean, the moments of brilliance that when he's rolling to his right and fires that ball down the sideline, there's what, three, four other quarterbacks who can make that throw. And that's why you get so excited about him. I still thought he was jittery in the pocket. He's still holding on to the football. I think they got confused with the graphic. I don't know if you noticed this.

They're like, Caleb Williams, they're trying to get him to, you know, get rid of the football quicker. Last year he was at this time and this in this game, and it was actually longer. He was taking longer on average in this game than he did last year. He held the ball for over three seconds. You mentioned a guy who's going to miss some throws and leave some plays on the field. So it's just like the highs are very high with him.

I'm not killing the guy. It's one game. The lows are low. And even if you look at like the nerd stats, you know, I like to look at, this game was basically the average Caleb Williams performance from 2024. Okay. More to add on to that, like you said,

a 3.04 time to throw for Caleb Williams. I think that was the fifth highest of the weekend. Yes, the fifth highest of week one. I thought that Ben Johnson would kind of weaponize that movement a bit more often with Caleb Williams, like what we talked about with the torque and the movement and throwing on the run,

but he kind of didn't. And it did look very different. And we were all expecting this heading into week one or the 2025 NFL season that a Jared golf led Ben Johnson offense would not look like a Caleb Williams, Ben Johnson led offense. But I kind of, and I don't know if I would ever say this, you know, five years ago, wish we saw a bit more Jared golf here, you know, just in terms of calmness, under center, play action, ripping the dig routes over the middle of the field. And we just didn't get that.

And as you said, that first drive, it worked. They got a touchdown. But that doesn't mean it was pristine or calm or any of that. It was still a bit chaotic. And that carried over throughout. And again, I do want to throw in that we are facing, or at least the bears are, a Brian Flores led defense. And they, the pressure looks that they give are insane.

Obviously, it's nearly impossible to run against this team. And as we saw for the Vikings, that was a major boost for them in the second half, but they have to go back to the drawing board and really figure out the concepts and the principles that worked on offense and to carry that and to build a game plan around it. I'm not sure if I can really outline those in week one other than the, again, Houdini-like escapes that led to scrambles and then some out-of-structure passes completed on top of it. Yeah, it's just kind of a resetting of expectations. You know, I think you said, yeah, we kind of expected a certain thing.

and I think there was, if you're a Bears fan, how could you not go into this season and be like, maybe in week one, he's just going to look like a different guy, and we're going to put up 30 plus points, and we're going to be like Caleb Williams. Sounds nice. Well, because of all the, I mean,

there were a lot of stories about how incompetent that staff was last year. Now, how much was valid or just that comes out after, but a lot of it seemed valid. It was like, man, he was in a terrible situation, and now he gets this coach who was so good with the Lions. They had a whole offseason together. They rebuilt the interior of the offensive line. They added it tight end.

They added it wide receiver. Maybe right away, it's going to just look different. And maybe it's not even they score 30. It just looks different. I like the point you made about he does have sort of a chaotic nature to him at times. And when it's like a two-minute drill at the end, it's kind of fun because it's just like, man, he's letting it rip downfield and they scored in a hurry. But throughout the course of the game, yeah, there is a lot of that.

I wouldn't say there's a calmness to his game. at this point in his career. Well, some of the final throws perfectly outlined this, right? The almost one-handed stab down the scene to Co-Comet, that comes up, and it's a great catch. But then he just totally misses on the DJ Morwin. That should have been a walk-in touchdown the next snap. And then you also have, you know, he's getting in the face, roughing the passer, hit to the helmet, and unleashes a perfect ball, I'll be it into a very tight window and gets

DJ more destroyed. but that's an amazing throw. So right now he still has this high variance nature to him. And I don't know if we ever got that high variance nature to the Detroit Lions over the last couple years. I hate to keep comparing it to that team or those teams because the rosters are very different. But I'm sure that Ben Johnson wants them to be as successful, as efficient of those versions. And it's just not at this point.

And sure, there's other factors here too. Like this team had four false starts and one half at home. Like that is not indicative of a really well-coached, well-oiled machine heading into week one. The snap at the end, I know it was the desperation play, but it hits DJ more. You know, it's like with the Lions, those things looked really pretty. And I was going nuts over them every week going, man, this guy's the most fun play caller. In the end, it's one, I understand. If you're yelling at any Bears fan, I understand.

It's one game. We're going to talk about them all season, but we have one game to go off of. And I think that's kind of what it looked like for the Chicago Bears. Final point here, Sheel. I also didn't get any cool-ass stuff from Ben Johnson that we got on a weekly basis in Detroit. Was there a manufacturer touch to Luther Burden that created a canyon of space for him to win after the line of scrimmage? Sure, we got a couple things here, there for DJ more. But I was expecting, you know, wide open spaces for Colson Loveland off of play action.

And for him to, you know, rumble out in space too. we really didn't get very much of that other than, I guess it was the two-point conversion. No, it was a short touchdown that we got to Romo Dunzee that had. That was beautiful. That's working across the formation. That's why, you know, Ben Johnson's one of the best Red Zone play callers in the NFL. Question for you to close us out since we're doing hot takes. Yeah.

Does this make you sell any of Caleb Williams stock that you had heading in to the 2025 season? No, not off one game. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not that. It's one game. Again, there was a scenario where we're on here and we're just doing, hey, Kay, like this was incredible. What's his ceiling just for this year type thing? And that didn't happen, but we have more games to go.

I feel like you're right about we didn't see all the creativity because they can't get some of the basics done. And good job by Bears reporters all summer. They were reporting on this. Like, there are practices where he's just annoyed that they can't do the little stuff, right? And so I think once they get that down, then he moves on to the next phase. We'll see what that looks like. All right, let's take a break.

We come back. We talk about the Minnesota Vikings. The Ringer NFL show is brought to you by Fandul. Football fans, every NFL Thursday is your chance to hit the jackpot on Fandall. Because with Fandul's Thursday touchdown jackpot, you can win a share of $2 million in bonus bets each week to get in on this Thursday's action. All you have to do is place an anytime touchdown score or bet before the game between the commanders and Packers kicks off. And if your player scores the first or last TD of the game, you'll win your bet plus a share of bonus bets.

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See terms at sportsbook. Fandul.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-HELP.com. Call 1-888-7-8-9-77-7-7 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. I have it in mission, Josh.

You know, like I do some prep during the game. You know, like, all right, I think this would be a good topic. I had a topic for you at one point that if I could grant the Vikings a wish where they could go back to the offseason and say, hey, Aaron Rodgers, you really want to come here? All right. And they were allowed to do that. Would they do that? Now, it no longer applies. But that's where my head was after three quarters of this football game.

And by the end of it, I arrived at the conclusion that, which I already had before, but it affirmed it, the Vikings. are just one of the best coach teams in the NFL. I mean, they have the infrastructure. They deserve the benefit of the doubt. With whatever plan they have, I am just going to trust them going forward based on basically what we saw in the fourth quarter of this game. Your initial question was somewhat valid for two or three quarters because I think it's fair to say that J.G. McCarthy made legitimately one throw through three quarters.

And it was that throw right before the 59-yard field goal before the half to Jalen Naylor. And that was it. that's all I could remember. But isn't this exactly what Vikings fans wanted to see from J.G. McCarthy in terms of fighting back from in-game adversity after the pick six, he was nails. I mean, it was incredible the throws that he was making and, you know, how balance this offense became. And as you said, that goes back to Kevin O'Connell at the top and getting everyone prepared.

And this offense looked talking about the bears and the lines. this offense looked very different than last year's version of the Vikings offense too in terms of that one was downfield big shot plays over and over and over again. We got a couple of those in the first half, but again, it seemed almost as not the handcuffs were on, but it was a bit more tame and they wanted to kind of get in the flow of the action. But then once the second half, and as odd as it is, after the pick six and they kind of were forced to do it, he grew into the game. And I mean, if this is the start and that was the low moment,

I'm not saying it definitely is, but man, that's just really cool to see even in, you know, a single game of four quarters. Yeah, I'm with you. You know, all the football stuff of like resilience and, you know, you walk into an NFL building. I've said sometimes it feels like you're in a cult, you know, when you're just looking at like the things on the wall.

But I do believe in that. The hockey stuff sometimes is accurate. And I felt the same way during this game for, a guy that young, when he ran that touchdown in at the end to see his teammates' reactions after that. Like, if you're a Vikings fan, you're over the moon after this game, I think, especially with where you were, you know, two and a half hours into this game, he looked completely overwhelmed. He threw the pick six. They had two, three an ounce after that.

I mean, at that point, I was thinking like, I need to reassess what I thought about this Vikings team for 2024, because they're not going to be competitive. If this is the quarterback play, they're going to get. get. And it did kind of really look that bad. You know, to your point, I think they were probably stuck between don't put too much on his plate, you know, give him some layups. But even then, they couldn't even get the play calls in in time. You know, the broadcast was hammering that home. That that play clock was winding down over and over again. But yeah, then it ended up third and five down 17.6. You know, I think that this is a clutch play brought to you by Amazon business,

Josh, because I think third and five down 17-6, McCarthy finds Justin Jefferson for that 13-yard touchdown, tight window, middle of the field. I know you're a big draft guy. That looked like what his Michigan tape looked like, right? 100%. And what I love most about J.G. McCarthy's tape coming out of Michigan, and a lot of people said, well, he never was asked to throw the football. They were always leading. But he had maybe the best compilation, the best reel of third and seven-plus situations in that entire draft. And that includes Caleb Williams. That includes Jane Daniels like, got to have at moments.

Now, it might not have been a massive number, but the ones that he did have were simply fantastic. And that was constantly over the middle of the field. And a lot of young quarterbacks don't want to attack that area. And he was much better there versus what Caleb Williams showed in the opposite end. Yeah, they got stuff going on. I'm with you. I think that is his greatest strength.

Now, sometimes he's throwing fast balls, kind of like we saw from Cam Ward this weekend. Yeah, put a little heat on it, takes him getting used to. There was one that went through Justin Jefferson's hands. But yeah, I don't know what how he, he just kind of settled in. The run game got going. I thought that was huge because they couldn't run the football before.

All of a sudden, they're running the ball. Three straight touchdown drives. And the guy we saw in the fourth quarter, to your point, I think if you were a Vikings fan and you were hoping for the best with JJ McCarthy, like that's what it looks like, ripping that throw, running the football. I mean, the zone read he capped, he turns the corner,

it gets in the end zone, he's executing off play action. It doesn't have to be the highest level of, you know, quarterbacking. It has to be enough for this team to win and for you in your first year as a starter with the very good coaching staff to give you an offense and opportunity. And I thought that's what it really looked like down the stretch there. My guy, Josh McCown, must have had one hell of a halftime speech to J.G. McCarthy on the iPad in the locker room. Yeah, I mean, going back to it, Sheel, one of the biggest moves of the offseason was this Vikings team

electing to not franchise tag or re-signed Sam Darnold and instead spending all of that money on interior defensive linemen and into your offensive linemen and then also making the move for Jordan Mason and the hopes to me of being a bit more

balanced both defensively but especially offensively and those point out Ryan Kelly, Will Fries and again, I don't know how much we love running backs in the show, but Jordan Mason was incredibly effective in comparison to, once again, DeAndre Swift running into walls over and over and getting into like these third and nine, second and 12 situations on the opposite end for the Bears.

It just allows the entire playbook to be attacked and to be picked from. And J.J. McCarthy is very, very used to that side of an offense. And it worked out tremendously for them. Yeah. Once the run game got going on with you and it was a focus. Now, they've said that, I feel like, for a few years now, hey, we've got to get the run game going. And I'm like, are you going to get the run game going?

I would like to see you get the run game going, but I don't know that you've gotten it so far. But yeah, that was a nice start for them tonight. And it was a big difference between them and the Bears because the Bears did a lot of the same things. Rebuilt the interior of their offensive line in terms of Ben Johnson scheming and play calling. I think that was very different than what it looked like with the Lions in terms of their run games. So I thought O'Connell was in his bag those last three drives, man. It wasn't just McCarthy. It was stuff was getting schemed up, screens, run game, play action, all of it.

And then the other side of the ball, you already mentioned, we probably haven't given Brian Flores enough credit. I mean, bears score that touchdown on their first drive. Their next nine drives, they have a field goal. And that's it. So this coaching stuff, I just feel like this staff, you can kind of give them, you know, they're going to, what's the old saying? They can take yours and be, I, you know the same time about, right? No, I have no clue which you're trying to pull out of your ass right now.

Bears and beat yours, but then if you like swap the teams, they can take yours and beat theirs. I know it's an old football saying, I'm butchering it. I'll look it up. It's late. What do you want for me? This is what happens when you do the Daily Pods. But yeah, I think you feel great if you're a Vikings fan. This is meaningful if you're J.J. McCarthy, his teammates who are looking at this going,

we're starting this young. Like, what's this going to look like? I mean, it's very meaningful for the rest of their season. It's incredibly meaningful. The Packers looked unbelievable in week one. The lines not so much. I mean, they were scored 33 points per game last year in Detroit. They were projected for 22 in week one.

And then they go out there and basically score six outside of a garbage time touchdown for Isaac Tesla. So now that you go on the road immediately to beat the Chicago Bears, you're also one of those teams that are 0 and 1-0. And then again, this was a game on the road. Like you said, I mean, after that opening drive, it was punt, turnover on downs, punt, field goal, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, block punt. and then it was that final touchdown drive that Caleb Williams had. You opened this part of the podcast on the Vikings talking about how well coached this team is. I also want to give a shout out to the Vikings special teams, okay? Because this is a massive area where the Vikings had an advantage.

The 59-yard field goal, Justin Piraath, everyone was wondering, well, there's 11 seconds left. What are you going to do? They nail it, right? I think this guy Price, the rookie, already looks like one of the best pump returners in the NFL. I mean, how decisive he was, the vision that he had, didn't make a bad mistake or bad decision all game long, the block punt on top of it. And then, as you know, the end, two minutes and what, five seconds to go. Yeah. Tide Chandler gazes over at Kevin O'Connell on the sideline.

And they return it to get on the opposite end of the two-minute warning when the bears only had one timeout remaining. Again, just situational football can win you these tight, one-score games. And it did for the Vikings via their special teams. All right, I'm not trying to rub it in Bears fans, but think of how the Bears operated last year with situational football stuff. I mean, it was one of the stories of this season, the botches that they had. And then look at the Vikings knowing that, hey, you got to bring this out of the end zone because we don't want to take the knee. And then the clock's going to stop after two minutes. We want to make them use a timeout.

That was awesome. You know, me, I love the little nerdy stuff like that. So, yeah, that was a clutch play. And when it comes to business, Amazon business is your club. much performer with fast access to essential supplies and flexible purchasing options. They're there when you need them most so you can tackle unexpected demands and keep your business in the game. Visit business. amazon.com to learn more. All right, last question for you. Okay. Josh, the Ben Johnson effect, because this is hanging over the division for the rest of the

season. Because to your point, the lions lose them. Their first showing, not a good offensive showing, shaky, it was one game. The Bears get him. Their first offensive showing. Disappointing. Not great. What is your sort of look into your crystal ball, like the rest of the season. Like when we get to Thanksgiving, how are we talking about Ben Johnson and kind of both

sides of this? Well, I think we only have to look to the end of next weekend because the crystal ball says that the Chicago Bears face off against the Detroit Lions. Oh, true. What storylines are we going to get out of that game? I mean, again, I don't have to look to week 16. Just what is it going to be like after next week? I am still a massive Ben Johnson believer.

I do feel like this is going to take them a little bit of time. I think people forget that it took the lines a little bit of time to get all this talent amassed at every single spot. When you have, and I know running games can be, you know, hit or miss across the league and yada, yada. But for that team, it was so massive to have two different types of runners in Dave Montgomery and then explosive talent like Jemir gives one guy you can pick up any yard that you need and another one to create explosive plays. And then most importantly,

we know the key to all of that is the offensive line. Again, I think we're kind of a year early here and I would love for them to be, I don't know, nine and eight towards the end of the season and maybe in that wildcard hunt when we get to week 18.

But I just can't wait for the headlines after that Bears Lions game this next week. I mean, yeah, one of them's going to be 0.2 after next week. I'm with you. I still think Ben Johnson, especially offensive schemer, offensive mind is one of the best in the NFL. This game's just a reminder that it might be a little gradual build with some ups and down,

see where you're at Halloween and then Thanksgiving and then Christmas and then New Year's and see how you're feeling at the end of the season versus just a team that's going to come in and all of a sudden it's going to look completely different than it did last year. Early indications are that that's probably not going to be the case. All right. My man, Josh Norris, underdog on underdog football, on YouTube. The man knows ball. The man is talking ball.

I watch his videos. You got to check them all out. Check out all of his work. Thank you, Josh, for joining us. I will be right back to close the show with the hurry. All right, the hurry up is our closing segment where I give you a take on news in the NFL. And while the San Francisco 49ers got a nice win in Seattle week one, the injury updates for them this week have not been great.

Kyle Shanahan told reporters that Brock Bertie is questionable for the 49ers week two game against the Saints with a toe injury and a left shoulder injury. Meanwhile, tight end George Kittle expected to miss at least a few weeks. Wide receiver Joanne Jennings left Sunday's game as he's been dealing with a calf injury and it's unclear whether Jennings will play in week two. So every offseason nerds like me look at the teams with the worst injury luck from the previous year and we tell listeners like, you that those same teams, if they can just get average injury luck this year, they're going to really improve. But the problem with that is that the better injury luck is never guaranteed. There's always a chance that a team gets nailed by injuries multiple years in a row. Take the 49ers. For example, last year, the most injured team in the NFL, and now they're

potentially going into week two without their starting quarterback, without their all pro tight end and without two starting wide receivers, if you include Brandon IUC, who is still not back. So if Purdy can't go, the 49ers will turn to Mack Jones, which only adds to the early season drama, considering that there has been plenty of reporting linking Kyle Shanahan to Mack Jones back in that 2021 draft when the team eventually decided to trade up and take Tray Land. So only week two, and again, maybe Purdy will play. We'll see what it looks like the rest of the week.

but Kyle Shanahan has had these seasons before that get derailed by injuries. He's won six games or fewer in half of his seasons as an NFL head coach. And now it looks like his Niners are going to face some early season adversity with these injuries. So keep an eye on the Niners this week. We'll see who's actually playing for them on Sunday against the Saints. All right. Thanks to Josh Norris. Thanks to Christopher Sutton for producing Kiera Givens and Brian Waters on social.

and additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ram Gopal. We'll talk to you tomorrow on the Ringer NFL show. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Call 1-888-7-9-77 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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