The Ringer NFL Show - New York Gets Aggressive, Big Low-Key Moves, and Lessons of Free Agency | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 248)

Episode Date: March 22, 2018

The Ringer's Robert Mays and Kevin Clark break down the huge trade between the New York Jets and Indianapolis Colts (05:00), how it affects the Denver Broncos and the Buffalo Bills (16:00), and the impact it will have on the draft (24:00). Then they discuss some of the most important under-the-radar free-agent signings (29:30) before they each share their three lessons learned from this year's signings (41:45). Read our NFL free-agency coverage here: https://www.theringer.com/nfl Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, Robert Mays here. On today's Ringer NFL show, we're wrapping up the final stages of free agency, including a huge trade that will have repercussions in the NFL draft, some under the radar moves, and some lessons we learned from a full week of signings. As always, we're brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where there are a ton of great shows for you. The Ringer MLB show returned this week. Michael Boughman was joined by a slew of Ringer staffers,

including Mallory Rubin and Hermani Machado Nightmares, Sean Fennessee and some classic Mets Confusion and Ben Lindberg on the final notes of free agency. Baseball is here, folks, so make sure to subscribe to the Ringer MLB show to get you ready for this season. Also, please go to theringer.com to check out some great culture writing from this week.

Andrew Grudadarro talked with Bill Hater about his new show, Barry, which I could not be more excited about. Also, Rob Harvia wrote about the return of Roseanne, a subject very close to my heart, as a suburban Chicago kid who grew up in the 90s, And with that stuff out of the way, let's get to the show. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer podcast network.

I'm Robert Mays, joined as always by Kevin Clark. Kevin, I appreciate guys holding it down for me last week, but it's good to be back. How you doing, bud? Good to have you back. Kind of a big news day in the NFL. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff happening. We're back, baby. There haven't been many off days, to be honest.

I mean, I was appreciative because before I left for this bachelor party, most of the big signings that happened, but I don't love the fact that literally, every single day there's something that needs to be reacted to. It's enjoyable, but it's just, it's constant. There's been this trope the last couple of years where something incredibly minor will happen, like, I don't know, like Clinton McDonald gets cut or something, and everybody goes, what off season? And it's like, oh, it's awful. Well, no, it is the off season because it was just Clinton McDonald. And now, I mean, JPP was traded. Yeah, we'll get to that. Johnny Mansell worked out today at the University of San Diego Pro Day. That doesn't move the needle for me. I'm sorry.

You got the wrong needle, buddy. 13 teams were there. To see Johnny Manzel? Well, it was the University of San Diego Pro Day, which I'm, obviously they, there's, you know, with pro days, it's more than just that, that university. So there's probably a couple of other smaller schools in the Southern California area. But, you know, the Bears were there. Great. Maybe the Bears are signing Johnny Mansell, even though they just gave Chase Daniel an inexplicable amount of money.

I love it. Hey, you know what, though? good for Chase Daniel. As someone, Chase Daniel brought me a lot of wonderful moments as a college student and the more Chase Daniel's

getting paid, you know what? Get that money, Chase Daniel. I'm mad at you. I have no thoughts on Chase Daniel. Shocking. Why wouldn't you? It's a hot button issue.

I think if Chase Daniel, let me ask you a question. If Chase Daniel plays a 16 game season for the Chicago Bears, they win how many games? 15 I don't know

4 Chesa has never been a very good NFL quarterback Is he a 7 win quarterback I don't think so I hope Mitchell Chubisky's a 7 win quarterback Are we gonna get heat from the quarterbacks or not Or wins are not a quarterback stat thing

Contingentia probably it wouldn't be surprising Those people are cool All right Kevin sadly Just to be clear I don't think Quarbacks Wins are a quarterback stat But I just feel like Yes you do

And I hope everybody comes at you about it No, I don't believe that, but I just think that the constant reminding of the fact that it's not is a Twitter thing that annoys me. Wins with the Z baby. All right. Sadly, the thrilling day is a free and seat are pretty much over. You know, the big names came off the board quickly. Pretty much every big name guy is off the market. But there's still plenty to talk about, like you just mentioned.

Even outside of that, I feel like there's some smaller moves that have happened in the days since you and Danny recorded. They've trickling in here. You know, we hear all about how this is still an important. wave of free agency in a certain way and I do believe that. We're going to recap some of those quiet yet pretty impactful moves that have happened. We're also going to chat about some of the lessons

from the contracts that have been handed out. Kevin just is life lessons. Have you learned anything since we talked last? Anything just kind of solidified in your mind? Be like, yeah, you know what? I learned something this week. I feel a little bit better about the world. I learned that no matter how bad you think JPP's

contract is, there's always a team that's willing to take him. I don't think that was limited to JPP. I think any first round pick who's had at least some semblance of success, that's going to be true for them. It's really interesting to me. That's not one of your three lessons though.

That's, it's not one. It's not my life lesson. Okay. Yeah. But no, it is a lesson that I've learned. Yeah. I mean, draft status matters. I think we've learned that a few times.

I mean, that's the whole thing when you look at quarterback value and how many starts they get and stuff like that. The problem with quantifying first round picks to all at quarterback is they just get a ton more opportunities than second, third, fourth round picks. And so, yeah, draft status matters.

We're going to talk about a lot of quarterbacks and how they're valued over the course of this podcast. But before we dig into that or the final few days of free agency, a big trade went down since you guys recorded last week. And it's a deal that is going to have huge ramifications over the next month. On Saturday, the Jets traded the sixth overall pick for two second rounders this year and a second round pick next year to move up to number three. Theoretically, this is to get one of the top three quarterbacks, I would assume. So, Kevin, when you heard this deal once out on Saturday, what were your initial reactions? So there's a couple of things. Number one, I had some Jets people coming at me because I had criticized the Jets plan the week before and I had said, really having two

quarterbacks and then drafting a third is kind of foolish in this era because you need to just devote all the reps you can to the developmental quarterback. And then the Jets fans are like, well, wait till they draft a quarterback for, you know, getting angry about the plan. It was clear all along they were trying to do this. Yes. And it's not even, it's not like they waited. They didn't wait. And the report now is that they had felt around as far as the Browns and whether they

could get the number one pick. Obviously, they couldn't. The Browns are not in the business of trading back anymore from that, that specific pick. Maybe they would move on from four. But, well, when you have number four, there's literally no reason to trade number one, especially after you knew somebody who was going to trade for number three. Now the fourth pick,

more or less becomes the third pick. So why would you trade it? Okay, so I've done the post-CBA, how do you develop three quarterbacks at once rant already? I'm not going to do it again. Having said that, here's what it is. Moving up three picks to go number three for three second round picks. The value, it's not an abomination.

I'm not furious about. it because if they hit on a franchise quarterback, it doesn't matter. I mean, if you give up a first round back, Deshaun Watson is in Houston right now. They gave up an incredibly valuable pick to the Browns for Deshaun Watson, and there is not one person in Houston who's upset about that trade. Not one. I saw staff the other day. The Texan scored 21 more points per game last year when Deshawn Watson started. We understand the value of a franchise quarterback. it just comes down to is the third pick in this draft in a quarter in a quarterback draft where after darnold it gets very murky and even with darnald we'll get to that in a second

but i'm not totally sure how valuable the third pick is in general having said that it's a great trade if they hit on a guy i know that's not the kind of analysis that we like to do you know I know that we want to say it's a good or a bad trade right now. Unfortunately, for the listener, we're not going to know until 2019, 2020 what this trade was. I think that's silly, though. I think that's a fine trade.

The value for the pick is fine. That I have no problem with whatsoever. But if they miss on the quarterback, then they'd love to have those second round picks. That's it. That's not how that works, though. You can't judge it that way, though. It's like you have,

let's talk about it beforehand, like process over results. It's a good trade to go, get a quarterback if you know you need to get a quarterback. My problem with this whole thing is not what they traded to get the quarterback. It's the same thing that happened with Trubisky and the Bears last year. My issue is even though they got punked by John Lynch, giving up the picks is not where I have a problem with this. It's the amount of value put into the position if you know the guys you signed are not your long-term answer. Even with the Bears, at least there was a month and a half

between when they signed a guy and then they went and traded picks for the quarterback. With the Jets, there was a day. So if you know that the $16 million at least that you've invested in your quarterbacks is not to players that are going to be part of

the picture long term, why spend the $16 million? Sure. I'm not, I was talking about just to trade. Sure. And the trade I have no problem with whatsoever. I have a problem with the overall plan. I have an issue with giving this amount of money to quarterbacks that are not part of your long-term solution.

Say, let's hypothetically, let's play this out a little bit. Say Bridgewater, for whatever reason, gets the job. Okay. Say he hits every single one of those incentives. So his contract gets up to $15 million. He throws for 3,000 yards. He starts half the games. He throws for 21 touchdowns. He starts 50% of the games and they make the playoffs. Cool. They made the playoffs. That's awesome. I think you'd pay him $15 million to do that. Then you're also paying Josh McCown, 10 million dollars and if Teddy Bridgewater does that if he becomes the quarterback that can do that

that's a valuable NFL quarterback right 100% like you would want that quarterback on your team guess where Teddy Bridgewater is not under contract next season right the New York Jets right so what's the plan at least with Glennon if he does this and he becomes this solid quarterback that maybe you thought he was going to be you have recourse you can trade him the same thing was true for Sam Bradford when the Eagles went out and they got Carson went. Obviously, the Bridgewater injury, it's amazing how cyclical this all is, by the way. The Bridgewater injury is something you can't plan for, but it's still nice to have a quarterback under contract that's reasonable while you have your guy of the future on your roster.

What is the recourse for the Jets? Why give out at least $16 million to these guys when there's no way you could ever flip them for anything else? If Bridgewater's great, he walks. What are you going to do? You're going to franchise him? You're going to give him $25 million while the guy you drafted third overall sits there for another season, it doesn't make sense to me. I think Bridgewater is a great by-low asset the way they did it. But if you're going to do that, then sign another starting quarterback for $5 million. Go get McCarran. Getting, I was a huge proponent of just a flyer on McCarron. We talked about that a couple of weeks ago. Signing Josh McAllen for $10 million for seemingly no reason is a very weird move. Or when you have Bridgewater, you need.

a backup, they're going to have a backup. It's the guy that you have third overall. Sorry, that's the one part of this I didn't think about. Okay, so there's a couple of Jets fans who've come at me, and they've said, and that's fine, I enjoy the interaction, quite frankly. I enjoy talking to Jets fans, especially optimistic Jets fans because I find them fascinating. So they say, well, what does it matter? We're under the cap.

We can sign and we can afford Josh McCown, so what does it matter to you? not how opportunity costs worse. What is that? Oh, it doesn't, we have the money, so we might as well spend it. By the way, I'm sure. Go out and get anybody. You know how many guys you get for $10 million? You know many free agents who signed somewhere for $4 million?

You can just, fine, we'll give that guy $10 million. And you make your team better than a aging quarterback who isn't going to win you that many games and also is just taking reps away at some point from either the guy trying to get back from a bad knee injury or the guy who was drafted third overall, both of whom obviously have higher ceilings than McCown. There is someone who's like, oh, he'll just be a quarterback coach. You know what you can do?

You can hire him as a quarterback coach. That's my favorite part of this. $200,000 a year and give him an escalade to drive around. I don't care. That's my favorite part of this is that like, well, you know, if we didn't pay him, then somebody else would. And then he wouldn't have been around to be like a mentor to those guys. Wow.

How will you ever survive? How will the team ever bounce back from losing Josh McCown as a mentor and coaching coaching figure? You just find some idiot red growth mindset and just stick him in the quarterback room. Listen, I like Josh McCown. He seems like a great guy. But this is ridiculous. Like, it's not worth $10 million to make sure he stays in the building.

It just none of this makes any sense. And again, when we're talking about, well, the team's under the cap. Who were they bidding? Who was offering Josh McCown $9 million? Exactly. That's my other thing. Why not? If you don't, and maybe the argument is, well, we didn't know if we could make the trade up.

Okay. So if you knew you were going to try to do it on Saturday, how about you wait until yesterday to give Josh McCown is $10 million? This is a headline here. It's Cornyn Sports Illustrated. The bills were seriously interested in Josh McCown. Okay. Cool. What was the downside?

Then you get McCarran for five. Yes. And a two-year deal to where if he goes in. in, if he plays four games and he lights out for some reason, if he had taken some step that was great, you deal them. And you get a pick. And you pay him less money. And I guess like if Bridgewater walks and he gets a $20 million contract, he factors into the comp formula the year after, which like, sure. Sure. I guess if that's a really playing four dimensional chess here, guys. Exactly. I'm going to go out in a limb and say that is not the end game like

McCagnan had in mind here as he's making these moves. That's just me. All right. If they get Josh Allen, is this a disaster? I have no idea. I'm not going to play that game. I have no idea. I have no idea how good NFL quarterback Josh Allen's going to be. I have a pretty good idea. I don't. I really don't. I have a question. I'm listening. Mike McCagnan has drafted Bryce Petty and he's drafted Christian Hackenberg. Why should we trust Mike McCagnan in this situation? Is that your question? That's exactly what I'm asking. Yeah. I'm not sure I have one.

It's like how the Bears have dealt out all this money and free agency. It's like, why should we trust that these are the right guys? We shouldn't. No one should trust anything about this. I'm not saying it's not possible that McHyddena will hit on a quarterback. There is obviously a long track record of guys who didn't hit on the draft until they did. And it's also you have such a better chance in the top five. You have such a better chance.

Just historically think about it. Sure. Having said that Bryce, Petty and Christian Hackenberg around the league. Bryce plays a fourth-round pick. I mean... Yeah, sure, sure, sure. They're not going to hit on those.

Sure. Just don't... My advice, don't draft Bryce Petty. There were people... I sat down with Bryce Petty when he was drafted. I think he's a very nice person, very good guy.

There were people laughing at that pick, dude. There were people laughing at that pick when it happened in training camp. I talked to these coaches who were saying, I sat down on Bryce Petty and this is a it was just a college to pro transition

that Baylor offense and the way Petty ran it there were a lot of coaches who sat down with Bryce Petty and were like this guy cannot play in the NFL and again I think he's a good guy but I'm just letting you know

the perception around Petty at the time he was drafted don't draft him in the fourth round let's move on to a couple of other teams here that this impacts just in terms of how the moves they have now I have to make. So the two teams that are still maybe in the market for long-term quarterbacks are the

Broncos and the bills. The Broncos arguably, you know, they've been connected to maybe wanting a quarterback at number five. Maybe they don't because of Case Keenham. If they draft a quarterback at number five, we're in a similar situation, even though they do have Keenum for a couple of years so they could trade them theoretically, but it's still not my favorite way to build your quarterback room. And I know, this has been said a few times in the last week.

I know the Bears and the Eagles have done this, and it's been okay. This was not some grand plan with these two teams that, like, Teddy Bridgewater would somehow get hurt and they've been able to deal San Bradford. They gave Chase Daniel a ton of money before they did that. I mean, with Howie Rosen's in a ton of smart stuff in the last year. I'm not, like, tacking that one up to some genius bit of team building. I'm not. And the Bears, I'm giving them zero credit for that. So if this does work for one of these teams, I don't think it's the culmination of some

trend that teams should follow. I really don't. Just because it's been happening doesn't mean it's smart. Anyway, rant over. The Broncos may still be in the market for one. Now the fifth pick becomes a little more complicated because you know at least two teams, most likely, are drafting a quarterback ahead of you. And the bills, it becomes one of those situations where,

Now it's not about moving from 12 to 6 maybe or even 12 to 4 if the Browns want to move down. It's probably about moving from 12 to 2. And are the bills willing to do that? I think they should be willing to do that because they're in desperate need of a quarterback. And again, you do what you can to go get your guy at this point in your team building process. They need a quarterback. If I had to predict it, I would say they moved to two. What do you think is going to happen?

The Giants hold all the cards. that's a good point. I mean, I guess it's four if the Giants are going to draft a quarterback. If you offer the Giants, a King's Ransom for two, and they don't take it, doesn't that tip their hand to what they're going to do? As far as drafting quarterback? Yeah. Yeah, but it doesn't necessarily matter because if the Browns are going to draft a quarterback. At one. At one. And so the Giants will get the second best quarterback. There's no gamesmanship

because no one's going to be able to trade for the first pick. So if they are set on the second pick, it doesn't necessarily matter. It doesn't necessarily matter if they telegraph what they're going to do. Because no one's going to pry the first pick from the Browns. I totally agree. I think it's just a matter if you're the bills, then you know. Then you know that you'll have to probably get to four if you want your guy because the Broncos may pick one at five.

So it's not as safe to get to six with that Colts pick. I would love, if you're a Browns fan, I would love to be able to be able to to auction off that fourth pick and get a lot for it. A lot. Because the bills have two picks in the top 20. Wouldn't it be awesome? I guess that's true. So you could auction off the fourth and just get the 12 and whatever.

Where else are they? Are they not 20, 12 and 20? Didn't they switch? No, they have two first round picks. No, I know. Are they eight and 20? No, there are 12 and something else. Because they switched with a Glenn trade.

Yeah. They switch with the Bengals. Yeah. But they still have, they have two. Yeah. I just don't know what the other one is. 12 and 22.

Okay. Because were they at 12 and 21? That's kind of funny. Or was it 12 and 20? No, they were 21 and 22. Yeah, that's funny. I thought they were. Yeah.

So I, that's pretty good, dude. I don't mind that for the bills at all. I mean, I think Corey Glenn's a fine player, but you're getting ammunition. For both teams, I think it makes sense.

I need to talk to you about something I found this week. I'm here, buddy. Let's go. There was a Charles Robinson article from the season about Sam Darnold. I was reading some Sam Darnold reaction, and I found this particular one. A NFC scout, NFL, NFC personnel men, personnel man, said, you can have him of Darnold. Loopy motion, bad face. overrated.

I forgot about that. I remember that that had happened. I missed it. It was in October, December, excuse me. Who's the quarterback with the worst?

In terms of the quarterbacks who could succeed, who has the worst face? Is a flacko? A guy who could potentially win a Super Bowl because we know he already has. I'm going to just

completely avoid that topic. But... The fact that it's a real thing is still hilarious to me. Does Sam Darnal have a bad face? I have no idea. That's what I mean. I don't know what this means.

That's kind of what I'm asking you. So Jason Concepcion has something called, are you familiar with round face disease, his theory? Yes. So. Yeah, Markov Fultz has it. Yeah, Markovoltz has it. Raymond Felton has it.

And essentially it's- Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Raymond Felton had round body disease for a while. No, no, no, no, no, no. Even when he was, the point is the even if you're in shape, even when you're in shape. Well, I know that's the point, but I'm not sure. That's what I'm saying.

Ramon Felton was in fact in shape. I used to cover him one for two years. He was in fine shape. Things went south after that. Okay. Having said that, so if you don't know what it is, basically if you have a round face,

you can never look in shape. Fultz has it. Sam Darnold has a little bit of it where he's always going to look bigger because of his face. I don't think Sam Donald's out of shape, is he? I don't think so. I mean, I've never heard that or noticed that

or like just said it to myself. I was like, oh, that guy looks. kind of chubby. It's never come across my mind. You know who does think that is an NFC personnel man? Sure, bad face. Who talked to Charles Robinson and says that Sam Donald has a bad face. I'm obsessed for this because Will Brinson tweeted this week and I agree with it. The Donald's in no way being picked apart in the same way that a lot of other top quarterbacks have.

And I do think that's fascinating at his Will's theory, which I think is true, is that the other quarterbacks are so polarizing that all the discussion has been them. Maybe now we start to, none of these guys should be nitpicked as much as they are. But you wonder if the, you know,

weird doubts will come up about Sam Darnold and we'll hear more about dumb things, for instance, his bad face. How many, I mean, there are so many quarterbacks

that I've been in locker rooms with and just been like, oh my God, that's what that guy looks like. It's hilarious. You mean like quarterbacks who maybe aren't in shape? Yes.

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's a thing. I talk about it a lot. They just have like such doughy bodies. It's hilarious. I once approached a quarterback and asked him if he wanted to do a story and I used the phrase dad bod in the story

in the pitch to the quarterback and the quarterback said no. Bad move. That was what the story is going to be about. It was about how to succeed as a top level quarterback with dad bod. I can't, I'm not going to, we're not going to talk about this.

I'm just saying, it happens a lot. I'm in agreement with you. I just don't want to. throw out any names. No. Names are not the names. They're not the names the listener. I mean, there are names that the listener thinks and then we're thinking of, but then there's other guys who are sneaky fat. Yes, correct. That's kind of what I'm getting at anyway. Sneaky fat elite quarterbacks exist. They are real people. All right. So before we get out of here, let's talk very briefly about how this affects the remainder of the top 10, both players and teams.

So you mentioned, neither of us mentioned Berkeley. I thought he was just on my mind. So now this affects the Sequin Barclay thing in a fun way because now maybe if the Browns do want him they can get their quarterback at one and Barclay at four. So that's fun if they want them. Who knows? Maybe they don't want him.

So now, and so you get to four if they don't want them. Five is Denver. Hey, the Dolphin sign Frank Gore? Good Lord. Frank Gore is going to play until both of us are dead. Okay, I'm sorry. Continue.

now make the now of the Barclay kind of doors open in a fun way. Yeah. Because maybe Denver gets him at five. If Denver wants him, who knows, then at six, you have the Colts who could stay there. They could trade out. Yeah. I mean, he could wind up anywhere. So, and then Nick Chubb is the same way.

I mean, you could, every time one of these teams, the little bit lower down, the teams I'm thinking of Tampa, the Colts, and Chicago that have a quarterback or at least are committed to a young quarterback, every time one of these teams trades up for a quarterback, they're said they're celebrating because one of the best players in the draft could possibly get to them. Every single time one of these happens, I just fist pump because it's one step closer to Quentin Nelson being on the Bears. So I'm fine with it. I'm very excited about what's going on right now. Hey, a couple things. Number one, do you see Lewis Riddick said that Bradley Chub is a better prospect of Miles Garrett?

Yes, I did see that. It's amazing how quickly we forget. How good Miles Garrett is? Yes. Or how ridiculous when prospect Miles Garrett was. I mean, look, I'm not, Lewis Riddick is the furthest thing in my mind from sort of a hot take artist to do that to get attention.

I'm just saying this does happen from the year. So I do you think there's some merit to whatever he says. Agreed. Having said that Miles Garrett is really good. Yeah. This stuff is always funny to me, but I, again, I respect him very much. I want to do you a solid. so you didn't get to talk about Joe Thomas in the podcast.

You just mentioned the Browns a lot. Can you give us a Joe Thomas bit? I tweeted it when it happened. I mean, this is, he's not just the best. Just read the tweets on the pod. I mean, he's not just the best linemen of his generation. It's not about comparing him to the players of his career. It's about comparing him to some of the greatest players of all time.

I mean, Joe Thomas is not an exaggeration, one of the greatest players in NFL history. I mean, the guy had nine ball pros in 11 seasons. He played 10,000 straight snaps for a team that never won. He was the natural at left tackle. I mean, the guy played it in an easier, smoother, I am supposed to be here away than pretty much anybody I'd ever watched in my adult life. So when you're talking about Joe Thomas,

it's not about comparing him to Joe Staley or Tyron Smith or whatever. It's about comparing him to Walter Jones and Jonathan Ogden, and just the guys that have been the best to ever do it. He's going to walk into Canton. He deserves to. and he's one of the best players of all time, full stop. That's great. It's beautiful.

Well said. By the way, did you see the Peter King note the Giants drafted 45 players between 2008 and 2013? They have zero left on the roster. Peter's a very nice man. But one of the things he really enjoys is just shooting on the Giants. He really does like destroying that Giants drafting record. Okay, so I covered the Knicks when I was really,

young, 23, something like that. And I remember Frank Asola was on the beat with me of the New York Daily News and people used to come up to him and say, you're anti-Nicks, Frank. And he would say, they win 25 games a year. How can you be pro-Nix? I totally agree, but that is something Peter

Harps on a lot, is how bad the Giants have been drafting. There are a lot of teams that are bad, but he does go back to that one. I have no reason to believe, I have no reason why. He's never like expressed to me. He used to dunk on the dolphins for that, too. I mean, it's It's just funny. He really does like to talk about that. And it's true. Barnwell, too, just because he used to be a Giants fan. He's like, this is horrendous. And it really is. So, all right, coming up, we'll chat about some of the low-key signings from the past week that could make a difference and the lessons we learned from this year's signings. But before that, let's take a quick break. If you're an entrepreneur, a small business owner, or even have a side gig, let me introduce you to Grasshopper, the entrepreneur's phone system.

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going to see. And it feels like this year kind of no different. Seems like there's going to be a lot of worthwhile signings that help shape the playoff race. Which smaller move from the last week or so stood out to you the most? So, in a weird, I know this is supposed to be under the radar, but the most famous guy is the most important, and that's the Honey Badger. I agree. He's number one on my list. In my

opinion. So, there's a couple of things. Number one, Ian Rappaport reported, I'll read this year, the release of Tron Matthew is more about the value in the new Steve Wilkes system than his overall ability, similar to the Panthers, they invest their money

in other positions. How many times... The last time you saw the Panthers invest in a safety, never. Right, exactly. But what I want to say is that how many times on this podcast in free agency this year, specifically in going back, have we talked about finding value when a guy becomes expendable because of the system he's coming from? 100%. It's a great point. It's one of the biggest ways, I think, that you can find value because nine times out of ten of guys being released because he's now worth the money because he's just declining,

or he's got a nagging ankle injury or whatever it is. 80 pass a rating when targeted. which is decent, but top 10 in the NFL and stops. This guy can just make place. And he's a value at one year, $7 million a year. That's pretty good, man. I'm curious to see what they do with him because I think he's at his best when you're letting him do a ton of different stuff.

Obviously, the injury risk is higher there. So I feel like that's why you might be reticent to play him closer to the line of scrimmage just because you want to keep him on the field. But it's such a low risk signing. to worry about, I know this sounds ruthless, but you don't necessarily have to worry about, you know, long term, okay, how is it going to age well or whatever? I mean, the Texans are taking a flyer on. I think that obviously teams play with three corners a ton. So how those spots shake out in Houston

and how you use him as a corner is interesting to me. Their safety depth isn't great. So they may not want to use him as a free safety or they may not want to take him away from that free safety spot, even a nickel. But I could see some scenarios where, you have Jonathan Joseph and Aaron Colvin outside, or the fact that Cream Jackson and Kevin Johnson are out of the picture there is amazing. But they're at least on the roster, so you could use them in spots or whatever. So if you want to bring Matthew into the slot, you want to move Colvin outside, you want to use Joseph as your other outside corner.

You move him back to free safety and put Kareem Jackson in the game if you want to use them there with three corners still. I think they have a ton of guys in the back end, even though you might not feel good about a couple of them just for flexibility. So I love him too. I think for $7 million, just the piece he gives that defense is really fun. I'm kind of sad. They didn't get Nate Solder because if they had,

I would start to get excited about the Texans because they were a really fun team last year when Watson was playing. So are you not excited because of the line? Yeah, I'm still concerned about the offensive line. They got some cheap guys on the interior that I like that could really help them. So we'll see how it shakes out. They signed Encinio Calamete from New Orleans on a pretty cheap deal.

And Jeff Allen's a guy they signed a couple years ago to a four-year contract. He has not played well. I think that if Calamete wins that job, I wouldn't be surprised if Allen was just out of that rotation just because they can get out of that deal for $2.5 million of dead money. So I like the interior signings. I think they've created just as a more stable situation in those spots with the guys they brought on, but they still need a left tax.

They signed Sean Charles Henderson for nothing. That's not an answer to any question. Certainly not. It's the answer to the question where the hell is Sean Charles Henderson playing now? They more or less need a tackle and the fact that they don't have a first and second round pick is going to hurt their ability to go get one of this. Okay. Now, JPP. I want to break this down.

This is an under... Go for it, buddy. You got the runway. I don't have a ton of strong feelings about it. Okay, so I want to get to this in my lessons a little bit later. but I do enjoy the fact that the bucks basically know they have a window in which Winston is cheap and they're maximizing that in a way. I think they sat.

You can say that? Well, no, no. I mean, like, in theory, I like spending money and getting big ticket items in this offseason relative to when Winston has to be extended and all that. So there's a couple things. Chris Raybon tweeted this out. I thought it was fascinating. So he was ranked 64th among edge rushers last season.

Not great. His three highest pass rate, pass rush grades, Raybon continues, came against the Broncos, Cardinals, and Seahawks. Seems a shitty offensive line. Exactly. Yeah. Right. So he eats against bad teams.

He eats against bad teams. I do think there's a, if you're just trying to make the playoffs, I mean, sure, go ahead run JPP out there. He gets some pressures against crappy O lines. I don't know how much winning he's doing right now. I don't think that he's going to wane against a good offensive line as these numbers prove, but I think he's still decent. Having said that, the Giants just got rid of him and they only saved $2.5 million in cap room. There's huge dead money. Obviously, they don't think he's that talented. So it's a risk to take on JPP at this. this point, but the bucks

realize that you're not going to be able to trade for guys on a huge second contract like this forever, so whatever. I agree, and it's also just an awful edge rushing free agent class. There's absolutely nobody there. So unless you didn't, you know, you thought Chub

was going to get to at 7, which you probably is not going to, then this makes sense. There's some athlete, I'll tell you what, there's some athletes. There's some second round athletes at edge rusher. But I don't think they're going to, I don't they're worth the seventh pick. And if you're the bucks, you can cut him next year.

Yeah. I mean, he has a $12.5 million cap hit this year. Oh, no doubt. So you can cut him next year. And $12.5 million for a guy with his track record for a single season is not bad. No. I mean, you can get rid of him if you want to get rid of him. You can pay him.

14.5 isn't great, but it's not crippling, you know, for a decent edge rusher. So I don't mind it for the bucks. They didn't give up that much. And also, you cannot discount how desperate this team has been for pass rush help on the outside. It is one of the black holes of the NFL is that buck's edge rushing pass rush spot. Since Simeon Rice left, they have not had a guy. Michael Bennett is their best one. He had one really solid season before they let him walk away from in free agency.

That's it. End of list. So you can understand where they'd want to go get a guy. So now you have Vinnie Curry, JPP, NOAA Spence, who I still think of, is interesting. He got hurt last year before we could see what happened. Fow Alan Gerald McCoy. That's not bad. That's actually a pretty solid group.

So I'm curious to see what it's going to look like. My is curious, it's not an issue. I'm curious. The Ryan Jensen signing. I like Ryan Jensen. I thought he was going to get a decent contract. He got paid more than I thought he was going to. But I have no idea how their offensive line is going to shake out now.

Because you moved Marpet to center and then you sign a center. So theoretically you move Marpet back to guard, which I hate when people do that to offensive linemen. They play a position, let them refine that position. So I guess that's how it's going to go. Donovan Smith's still not very good. They will upgrade over him as soon as they can. So there are pieces on that team that I'm concerned about.

My issue also is that every time I look at the bucks on paper, I'm like, okay. And then it never works out. So I'm trying not to talk myself. I do it again. Did you see what Justin said about switching sides of the line? It's such a great analogy. We'd like to tell the people. They asked him what it was like to switch from right guard to left guard, and he said,

it's like wiping your ass with the other hand, which is perfect. True. I mean, and it really is different. Guys talk about it all the time, and switching from guard to center, there aren't just interior alignment that this is a ridiculous notion. So teams that just switch them around with no regard for who should play where is so dumb. So the bear is now cut Josh sitting and maybe. maybe they moved white hair to guard and they put grass suit at center or maybe they draft a guard.

But it's just, it's silly to jerk guys around like that. Just let them play the spots they're good at and develop some continuity. So it's just a pet peeve of mine when teams screw and they screw around with guys like that. So Joe Shad just tweeted this and I'd like to just talk about it because it involves Sitton. With the addition of veterans like Josh Sitton, Danny Amandola, Frank and Frank Gore, Miami Dolphins are clearly not in tear down mode. they're trying to make the playoffs in 2018. It's so terrible. The Robert Quinn trade is just indefensible.

There's no way you can get in front of it and just be like, this is a good idea. It's like Mike Tanenbaum just loaded Madden in 2010. And it's like, we're just going to roll with these guys. It's hilariously, badly run football organization. That's all there is to say about it. Let's talk about a couple more we like, though, before we get out of here. In a bad free agent class, in terms of

of like the edge rushers especially, getting Adrian Claiborne for two years, 10 million if you're New England is awesome. That's a very good signing. He's a really good guy in that system. He can control blocks. He can pin his ears back if you want to. Shelton Richardson, one year eight million.

I'll take that. I like it. Oh, my God. I mean, I tweeted it as soon as it happened. The idea of Shelden Richardson, Linval Joseph Everson Griffin and DeNeal Hunter is disgusting. Even if Richardson took a step back last year,

even if he's not the guy he was. That is a disgusting group of defensive linemen. And the concern you have with giving cousins that deal is that you can't fill out the margins of your roster to the degree that you want to. One signing like this is a really nice piece. This is the type of stuff the Eagles did last year. It's exactly the type of signing that they would make when they just needed to fit somebody in in a tight space. And I absolutely love it. It's such a nice addition.

Jason McCordy. do we think Belichick does the thing where he switches their jerseys at least once with Devin? There's so many just maniacal things he can do. So much nefarious. So many nefarious actions that are now on the table. Really stoking his curiosity and his kind of creativity here. What's the craziest thing he could do? He could pull like a parent trap thing with Ernie Adams.

Yeah. Ernie Adams just finds himself a drift on a like a, like, raft somewhere in the middle of a lake? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. If you're being, if you're, if you're, if you're, so let's say Jason plays inside cornerback on a play and Devon play safety and they both play kind of rough up within five yards, a slot wide receiver.

Is the slot wide receiver spooked because it's too of the same guy? I guarantee he was terrified. It'd be so strange. It's fun. I'm excited for this entire thing. it's a really good move. The fact that they were going to cut him anyway, Jason McCourt,

I'm going to talk about this a little later in our lessons, very confused about the cornerback market. Jason McCordy makes $3 million this year. Why was Jason McCordy expendable? Like, why is he worse than the guys the Browns brought in? This confuses me. I couldn't tell you. I don't know what half the teams the NFL are doing.

No. I mean, it's all very confusing. All right. So before we get out of here, we wanted to go over a few of the lessons we learned from just these signings in their totality. So I feel like one of the more valuable parts, this is like one of the more valuable parts of a very silly exercise, figuring out what we can glean from who gets money and who does not. So let's start with you, Kevin. What is your first lesson from 2018 free agency?

This is not the most important lesson. It's what I want to start with. Okay. What the hell happened to the safety market? That's a great question. Because the last couple of years, every time I ask an evaluator what position is going to be more important in the modern NFL this was two or three years ago I'd always hear those versatile

safeties the guys who can do anything who can cover slot-wide receivers who can play in the box those guys are going to be more valuable than ever and then we have a handful of at least talented safeties

and it's like they're freaking running backs dude they're guys still just available that I like you know like Tyvon Branch had a nice season last year Eric Reed is still on the board is Trey Boston still available? I think he is yeah yeah maybe not yeah he is he has not been signed

I just don't understand I just don't understand how it can't how it craters like that so quickly yeah is every team just completely unaware of how valuable a good safety can be to the defense leaving aside I'm not totally I'm not totally sure what Steve Wilkes is doing with getting rid of Honey Badger

let's leave that aside but I mean wouldn't you want Honey Badger on your team first of all he plays you can play slot cornerback fine PFF hasn't listed

as a cornerback he's done that less so in the last couple years no I know but you can you can just keep him around right but anyway I don't think he fits

he was making a lot of money I understand the financial part of it but once he reaches free agency he can get $7 million that's it for a league that has like a billion dollars

in cap space I assume there were teams willing to give him more than one year he did not want to sign it no I understand the one year thing I understand the prove it deal and then try to get you know four years 40 next off season or four years 50 next year if he has an absolute you know all pro year which is obviously

every year is getting less and less likely but I understand that but I'm saying that in a league where teams just have of $40 million in cap space like it's nothing, they can't devote more to a freaking good safety? I hear you, man. I mean, it makes a lot of sense to me. I thought that as soon as he went on the market,

he was going to have a bunch of suitors. And the fact that it was $7 million, I guess it's a reasonable contract. And he signed with a team that has a solid chance of making the playoffs, all that. But I would have loved to have him on my team. I mean, I think that he was a hugely attractive piece as soon as he came out there.

And I'm surprised that some of these guys available. I would take Tray Boston. He had an awesome season for the Chargers. He had a really good year. Morgan Burnett to the Steelers is interesting to me. Because he's just so solid. Just nice to have him back there. He's a solid player. I totally agree. Three years, 14 million.

All right. My first lesson is something we've learned kind of slowly over the last couple years. And it's that the lack of faith in teams to be able to develop offensive linemen from college has just made the offensive line free agent market go crazy. And this, a couple years ago,

I asked the GM about this. And this was before the nuttiness had kind of come in, which happened last year, pretty much. You know, the Kaleel contract, everything that was handed down. And I said, because, one, fewer college guys are making it. And two, offensive line is almost like quarterback in the sense that you need your guys to be over a certain level of competency in order for your offense to function. Yep. So it's kind of worth paying a premium. And the contract I was talking about was the deal that the Cardinals gave Jared Valdier, which at the time was not a lot of money.

and he was playing pretty well. And I just thought, why wouldn't you just pay for players at that spot in order to give your offense a chance? Because again, left tackle had been such a wasteland for them. And it seems like teams have figured this out. And they're just throwing money at people. I mean, the Brown signed Chris Hubbard for a five-year, $36.5 million deal with $15 million guaranteed.

He played well when given the chance last year. That's still a ton of money for a guy who's never started. I mean, these teams are just tossing money at these people in order to keep them around. You know, I remember a couple years ago, I think it was 2015, 2016, where we started this sea change where the left tackle was no longer. Remember, every time a left tackle was drafted, it was always pencil him in for 15 years. You know, it was always that. That has not been the case for five years. Not only that, but sometimes these guys are just sunk cost.

I mean, it used to be there was a floor that was still pretty high on a first round offensive lineman. You knew he'd at least be able to stand there and take up space and not be kind of a matador, right? And that went away. And there's a million reasons for it. We've talked about it. Lack of cohesion is your theory. Obviously, the spread offense has changed law. I think the CBA has a hell of a lot to do with it.

Sure. All those factors. All of it. All of it. But you're absolutely right. I mean, teams just say, oh, this guy can stand there and be. He can seriously just play football and that's why this happens. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, there's a, I think one of the things post-CBA is there's a value in just knowing what you're doing. And I think you can't, it's harder and harder to teach that. And if you don't have this sort of natural, natural ability to figure out how to be an NFL player quickly,

it doesn't happen. And that's why signing these guys to bigger second contracts than you think is getting more and more important. Let's be clear about this. Nate's holder is not the best. left tackle in the NFL. I mean, he's not even close to being the best left tackle in the NFL. No, he's not. But that's not what this is about. It's about getting guys who, again, can just play football and he can't. And that's why he is at this sort of premium. And again, there are so few guys

getting to the market because teams know they need to retain them that when the guys that do get out there hit free agency, they get tons of money. I mean, that's just why it's working this way, because it's almost like a cycle. The scarcity is driving. this and then because teams don't have a lot of options to choose from, they have to overpay for them. So, I mean, it's kind of fascinating. It's why I like, you know, a team like the Colts, they've done almost nothing in free agency, but they've gotten guys who can just play football for a combined four and a half million dollars. They signed Matt Slosson for one year three, and you who's been very hurt, but is solid one year one and a half. Those are the types

of signings I like for offensive line free agency. I agree that you should get guys who can just be reliable starters in order to help your offense function. But the premium you have to pay now is just so crazy. Yeah. I mean, it's outrageous. What's lesson number two for you? Quarterback contracts. Wrote about this last week at the runner.com. Teams are now going all in on their rookie contract

before they know exactly what their rookie quarterback looks like. And what I mean by that is you look at the Bears this year. They're going all. in on the offense because they realize that there's only a four or five year window where Trubisky's going to be cheap. And either Trubisky washes out of the league and there's no downside to the fact that you load it up, you just spend a bunch of cap money you had to spend anyway, or you're going to hit.

He's going to be a good quarterback and all of a sudden the Bears are going to compete in 2019. And I think that maximizing the value of the rookie contract, which I think, I wrote, it was the best team building gift in. football and I've gotten some pushback some people think that it's Brady taking a discount. I think they're kind of one A and one B. I don't know what do you I mean having Russell Wilson

making $300,000 in the 2013 Seahawks sure as hell that's a outlier though. I mean that's such an ally I guess he's going to make six million this year in his second season. Carson Wentz is still you know he's making is what once makes less than full is that correct he makes like

six or seven million it's right around that so they essentially those contracts flattened out in year two, three. Exactly. Trubiski, I think, was four years 28 fully guaranteed. When you consider that if he shows any competency at all, the way quarterback salaries are going,

his salary will basically quadruple. Yes. And so you get into a situation where you've got $20 million to play with. Those bills are coming due. Spend it. And that's what the Eagles are doing. That is what the Rams are doing. that's what the Titans are doing.

There's a reason and Domic and Sue was coming in for a visit. There's a reason they got Malcolm Butler. They understand there's a window where I'm not sure Marriota's going to be one of these guys

that makes $30 million a year unless he improves a lot he's not going to be. But I think that they realize okay, we've got a guy who's at least decent. We know we have cost certainty for the next two years.

We're going all in. This is the era of all in. I agree with you. but I have a slight kind of tweak to it. Okay. I think that so many these quarterbacks are the same, that your obligation as a team builder is to do everything you can to build the supporting cast around him in order to buoy that quarterback while he's cheap.

Yeah. I think that's what it is, is that these guys are only going to succeed and fail for the most part because of the situation that they're in. I think there is only a handful of quarterbacks in the league that can just completely transcend their surroundings. So it is your obligation as a GM to do everything you can to maximize that environment while you have the financial means to do it. I totally agree with you. And I also think that, I don't know, I think we're going to get into a situation where a team, I don't know who it's going to be. And I talked about this in the podcast with Danny.

At some point, a team is going to just bulk at a second contract for a guy. I mean, it probably should have been the dolphins a couple years ago. And just, do you know, we're going to roll the dice? I know. It's fine. But we're going to roll the dice. We're just going to go with this cheap quarterback model.

Have fun. See you later. And here's the thing about the Trubisky. Here's the thing about the Trubisky. The Trubisky situation. All of these contracts that they just signed, like all NFL contracts are two-year contracts. Yep.

So by the time he's going to come up for his extension, you can cut him. But if Trey Burton is not a guy you are on the team, it's like, well, we tried. We tried to help Mitch out. Sorry, Trey, this was fun. Good luck in all of your endeavors. I mean, that's just how this works. So it's, again, why I'm okay with it.

My second lesson is tied to the Bears a little bit, but there are some other teams involved. I'm fascinated by the way that the extension of coaching trees plays into player acquisition. Yeah. And the Bears are an example of this in a few different ways. Trey Burton is from Philly, where Matt Nagy, was also the word Doug Peterson was the head coach. Doug Peterson was an offensive coordinator in Kansas City, where Matt Nagy was, and Matt Nagy is not the head coach of the Bears.

So Burton fits into that move tight end role within that offensive scheme. You have guys like Taylor Gabriel who fits into probably the way they use Tyree Kill in Kansas City, just somebody that can take the top off the defense, all of that. So I just really like how it's one of my favorite parts of free agency. You look at guys in new uniforms and you're imagining how they fit into these different offenses. Yep. And I think now there's a Shanahan tree with McVeigh and, you know, Matt LaFleur is going

to Tennessee. So you're just going to see these tentacles play into which types of players end up on which team. And I think it's really fun. And it's, you know, I'm thinking about the Bears tight end situation. I was having a long conversation with Barnwell about it. And it's like, well, you know, how are they going to get Shaheen and Burton on the field if Sims is still making $6 million?

It's like, well, the chiefs threw the ball out of 12 personnel, 26. percent of the time. Philly was number two. They throw a lot when tight ends are on the field. The Chiefs threw 31 passes out of 13 personnel last year, which is about two a game. There's just all these kind of different things you started thinking about with the new players these teams have

and it's really fun. I mean, it's just a cool way to think about and project the league based on the new spots these guys are in. Totally agree. Can in my last one? Yeah. Do you last one. Toss it out there. There's value in the running back position. Robert, in

2019, how many quarterback, excuse me, how many running backs will make over $10 million against the cap? One? Zero. Obviously, Levy on Bell when he extends... That's what I mean. Yeah, no, no, no, no. That's my guess. Yeah. Bell...

Bell is not under contract for 2019 at this point. Lasham McCoy is scheduled to make $9 million. I don't know if he's going to make it. He's one of the guys I'd pay, by the way. I think he does transcend where he is. Shady? I think he's one of the guys that's worth it. Just to, it's an aside. Dionne Lewis.

signed a deal that will pay him around four and a half a year. Next year, he will make $4.8 million against the cap in 2019. He will be the eighth highest paid running back in the NFL. Isaiah Kroll, who's worse than that, will actually make $5 million in 2019 against the cap. That contract I don't like. The Carlos Hyde one, I don't mind, though. Yeah, fine.

But what I'm saying is in the era of the rising cap, in the era of Dante Moncrief, apparently making $9 million a year for some reason. God, I own Robinson makes 14, I just don't understand. I mean, I think it's probably not a coincidence. The Patriots have three of the top 25 highest paid running backs,

Burkhead, Gillisly, White. That's not a... They also signed Jeremy Hill. That's weird. Well, they also used to have Dionne Lewis, and then, you know, they had Lagaret Blunt two years ago. The Eagles were fine-paying

J. Ajai, who's making 1.9 still on his rookie deal. There's so much value here. And these guys, I don't understand why it hasn't swung back around where you don't sign a guy to a two-year-a-20 deal. And obviously the Niners did this

a little bit with Jared McKinnon, but even McKinnon's deal flattens out against the cap next year. And so, I think McKinnon is... Let me check a look here. McKinin's making 4.5 against the cap in 2019. That's value. if he's in any way a contributor to that offense

and I think he will be. I mean, they're going to make him a contributor. You're damn right. Give him every single opportunity. You're damn right. And so I just think that there is value in the running back position. I think Belichick sees it. I think more teams are going to see it going forward

where if you want to dip into free agency, get a guy like that. Obviously, there's some bad. The Vikings should not have signed Latavius Murray. That was a bad one. But there's a lot. I'm fine with that. It's the same thing with Hyde.

If you believe, there's, you can't ensure you're going to get your guy. But if you believe in the player later, that's okay with me. I think running back is a little bit different. You're getting a running back $5 million. You're not getting him a quarterback 15. The Vikings like Daven Cook,

but there's no telling that they're going to get them. Even if the Browns like Sequan Berkeley, there's no way they know they're going to get them. So you have Carlos Hyde. That one's more all right with me because there's less certainty involved. No, I agree with that. I mean, I'm just saying in hindsight, it wasn't a good pick.

That's all. Sure, but I understand why it was done. Russell Wilson Sauer in 2013, by the way, $520,000. It's ridiculous. I was kind of said, this is just a little bit off topic, but I was surprised that the 49ers didn't try to push more money into the second year of these deals. I agree. When Grappalo wasn't going to cost $37 million. That's not the way they normally do this.

The Niners pretty much to a man, Maratha does, he does huge roster bonuses in year one, and then they get less over time. but I was still surprised that they didn't try to play with it a little bit and go outside of their normal strategy just because they're paying Garapo with $37 million. I guess the money has to get paid no matter what and you can roll cap space over and everything else. But that's something I predicted that I just was wrong about. What's your third one? I think the cornerback market is kind of an odd tangle of contradictions. There are guys getting paid $15 million like Trimane Johnson, but then there are other guys who should be valued and haven't been. so it's just strange to me.

I mean, and I think that, you know, Colvin getting paid what he did to maybe move inside a little bit more. I just think there's value to be found in those players and teams aren't necessarily looking for it in the right places. Like if the top corners is around for $15 million, right, why is Marcus Peters getting traded for absolutely nothing?

We know the answer to that one maybe, just because it has more to do with things outside of football. But I still think that there isn't a consensus on what the value of cornerbacks should be. You know, the fact that Kendall Fuller was just to throw in in the Alex Smith trade is odd to me. You know, he's a really good player. Do we value corners or do we not value corners?

And I'm not sure that we've come to a defined answer about that. Like, Rashon Melvin made $6 million from Oakland. Rishon Melvin's a decent player. I think that could be a really nice contract. So, I don't know. Give us a rundown. You missed last week. at Top Golf in Vegas.

How'd you go? Yeah, it was. I was fine. I was hitting the ball okay at the beginning, but then eventually you just get too drunk. See, that's the key. I don't know if anyone here who's listening is play Top Golf. The key is to get out to a huge

insurmountable lead. Do not have any patience. It's not like regular golf. Just get out to a huge lead because by the time the fifth pitcher of Laganitas comes around, nobody's making any moves on a scoreboard. Nobody's going out.

Four hours of golf, so by the time we actually started competing, I was already drunk. I wouldn't have won anyway. I was with a couple guys that could really play. Shout out to you, Pete, though, and good for you. But I was not in the, I was not in the realm of competition. But even by the time I would have had to try,

it was too many sculpans in. It was the reality of the situation. I won when I was there in August because I just started off hot. And then you just, you can hold on because, you know, the nachos and the Laginitas. It gets to be too much. It weighs everybody down. place everybody down. All right, buddy, that's all we got for today. As always, thank you guys for

joining us. We will be back next week. Until then, thank you for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network. Thanks, guys.