The Ringer NFL Show - NFC East Offseason Grades

Episode Date: June 17, 2025

Sheil, Steven, and Diante use their expertise to analyze the NFC East division and discuss each team's offseason moves to determine what their level of success could be in the upcoming NFL season. Philadelphia EaglesWashington CommandersDallas CowboysNew York Giants The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.rg-help.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia, Steven Ruiz, and Diante LeeProducer: Chris SuttonSocial: Kiera GivensProduction Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? Syriot Sohey from the Ringer here and I wanted to let you know about a new show that I'm hosting, the Ringer WNBA show. We're breaking down and analyzing the latest happenings in the W, the personalities, the people who make the league as fascinating as it is and we're going to be featuring some of the best guests and experts from around the league. Tap in with us every Friday through the end of the season over on the Ringer NBA show feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. Shiel Kapadia here with Stephen Ruiz and Deonté Lee, the division by division, offseason reviews, look-aheads, whatever you want to call them. They continue today with the NFC East. We will talk about the defending Super Bowl champion, Philadelphia Eagles. We will talk about the trendy Washington commanders.

We will talk about the downtrodden Dallas Cowboys. And I'll give you a little preview. We'll talk about the laughable New York Giants. Sorry, Giants fans. But listen, what do you want from me? We'll do all that. Deontay, how are we feeling, my friend? Feeling good?

You know, this is going to be an interesting preview because a lot of these schedules, you look at them, it's going to be tough for just about everybody here. Yeah. So there's really no way to kind of ascertain in the same way we were talking about

some of the other divisions, how things might play out. I'm definitely feeling good after that welcome. That was a strong mid-season welcome. It was a good one. Yeah. Good June welcome. Okay, good.

There was surprised. It's caught off guard a little bit. Gave me a little juice. Doing a little late coffee today. So maybe the juice that I needed there. All right, let's get started. We're starting with the Philadelphia Eagles. And as of this recording, no longer the favorites to win the Super Bowl.

Now, it's a very minor odds movement, but the Baltimore Ravens have jumped ahead of the pack as the Super Bowl favorites at plus 700. Eagles, Bills, and Chiefs all tied for second at plus 750. Eagles are favorites to come out of the NFC at plus. 370, and they are the favorites to win the division at minus 1.35 over under for wins is 11.5. So first thing we do, we grade the offseason. And if you look at the Eagles, didn't do a whole lot on offense. Lost guard, Mackay Beckton, probably going to replace him with third-year player, Tyler Steen, have a little offensive coordinator change with Kellynne Moore going to the

Saints, replacing him with Kevin Petulow, who was already on staff. Defense is where we got a lot a turnover that we have to discuss. So they bring back Zach Vaughn, they trade Chauncey Gardner Johnson, and then free agency, man, they lose Darius Slay, Josh Sweat, Milton Williams, Brandon Graham retires, they trade Bryce Huff. They also lose Isaiah Rogers and Avante Maddox, just kind of secondary depth there. So I was looking at it

overall among the 15 players who logged at least 300 snaps. They lose six of the 15 there from the best defense in the NFL last year. They add Jahad Campbell, the linebacker in the first round, and then they just kind of take some low-price flyers on defensive players like Josh Uche, Aziz O'Jolari, and Adori Jackson. So you add it all up, Deontay.

Where do you stand with the Eagles off-season? I gave them a C, right? Like, I gave them a C, and there are some reasons, I think, to have questions about exactly what 2025 is going to look like, right? Like, while I was doing the prep for this, I was trying not to be too biased

by what we saw in 2023 after the 2022 run to the Super Bowl. But I think about the fact that you promote from within, right? You get one of Syria on these guys. And I'd say that Brian Johnson is exactly the same as Kevin Petulow, right? There's a little bit closer relationship here with Petulow than there was with Johnson. Johnson was probably a little bit more of a Howard Rosemner, maybe just front office, like, hey, we really believe in this guy and this is who we're recommending take the gig because he was an ascending coach at that time. But I am a little bit concerned about what it means to have a guy that kind of has an elite.

I think to Nick Siriani. Like a lot of Petulow's rise has been at the hip of Siriani. So I just don't know what that influence is going to look like over the offense, right? And the last time I was really thinking about an offense that was heavily influenced by Nick Siriani. It was at 2023 unit where Jalen Hurst threw for nearly 4,000 yards. But there were all these things wrong with the past protections, trying to design answers for certain things and different looks. the running game just was the running game was efficient but never really explosive with myel Sanders that year and i think it'll be better this year obviously having sayquan barkley

assuming his health should help in that regard but you think about that as far as the staff you think about the snaps loss that you mentioned and the fact that like this team would kind of ran rough shot over the entire NFL like i think it went underplayed because the first month of the season was a little rough but basically once they had all their offensive starters on the field again and Cooper DeGine got integrated with the defense, they were effectively like the best team of football the rest of the way through. Even though the play was ugly on a week-by-week basis, I didn't see anything that shows me that they're going to maintain that level.

And I think that everything that they did was fine. I'm just not really moved with any of them. So I'm just going to give them a C with the obvious opportunity that if their draft picks hit, that this will be a much better grade maybe in December than what I'm giving them now in June. Ruiz, I'm curious to hear what you have. I sort of feel like, you know, Deonté is the coach who, you know, you're a little harder on your kid maybe than the other players.

That's what it feels like to me, too. But I might be wrong, Ruiz. What did you think of the Eagles off season? No, I thought it was pretty good considering the fact of they were the Super Bowl champs. And Super Bowl champs usually get rated. I thought they were bound to lose some of these people. And I think some of these people that they lost like a dairy sleigh, for instance, the writing was on the wall there. I don't think, I mean, I think he was, had one foot out the door anyway, just based on age.

and cost. I gave him a B, though. I think it was an offseason where I look at their depth chart. That's basically how I came to the screen. I just look at their depth chart. I'm like, yeah, this is good enough. This is in line with what they were last year. And I like some of the darkboard throws that they took

with some of the defensive backs. I also liked the trade for Kenyon Green. I think that's like a perfect Jeff Stoutland project where I would have surprised at that guy starting. Because his high level plays, like there are some flashes on his tape. if you can shore some things up. And I think Stoutland is the ideal

offensive line coach to do that. And I agree with Deonté where the offense came together, our team came together at the end over the second half. And it didn't feel like it. But if you look at the results, it was like, yeah, this was probably the best team in the NFL by the end of the regular season.

But I think it was because of the past game. We had never really seen a team in the modern NFL be able to operate and dominate in that fashion without a pass game. But the past game that was frustrating week to week. And I think the past game should be better this year. And I don't think it's based on off-season moves,

but I do think the continuity with the personnel, and I think having a coach who is familiar with Nick Siriani and all that has been around the system, I do think we're going to get a better pass game from this team. So I think they're going to be in line with what they were last year. And if you're a Super Bowl champ, I think that's the goal for the off-season. So I'm not going to give them an A-plus,

because I don't think they evolved at all, but I don't think they regressed in the way that we've seen Super Bowl champs regress, especially in the salary cap era. Yeah, I think Deontes' case for C, you can easily make, if you just look at like how much talent each team has lost and what they did to replace them, you definitely can make the case for a C, especially when you look at how good the defense was last year. To me, I felt like I got the reasoning, you know, like I get it. You're not going to pay Milton Williams what the Patriots

paid them. And they're looking ahead at, hey, we're going to have to pay Jalen Carter. could become, you know, one of the five highest paid defensive players in the NFL if he has a good season this year and his contracts up next year. Guys like Quinyan Mitchell and Cooper DeGine, like these guys are going to get paid at a top five level. They're on rookie contracts now. So I think they kind of prioritize. All right. Keep Zach Bonn. He's a irreplaceable player just because of the role he fills and how well he played last year. Let the other guys go. And now you have to hope that like the new Zach Bon emerges at a position. You know, maybe it's Keely Ringo. cornerback. Maybe it's Moro Ajima, the defensive tackle. Some guys who are kind of unknowns,

but they expect to step up here on the defensive side of the ball. So yeah, I gave him a B. I think getting Dallas Goddard back was a sort of an underrated win. That was one we talked about a few weeks ago, a month ago, whatever it was, and it felt like he was probably going to be out. They didn't draft a tight end. And it looked like after that, the two sides kind of revisited that conversation. And so return 10 of 11 starters on offense. And then on defense, you at least have the coach who you feel like, all right, Vic Fangio knows what he's looking for with some of these guys. And you just kind of have to hope that some of the young guys can step up there.

So that takes us to kind of what you guys just mentioned, better or worse than last year, which you kind of already touched on there in the last question. But they went 18 and 3 last year, which I'm with you guys. I mean, this isn't just us talking. I mean, AJ Brown was literally saying after week 14 that passing is an issue. And he's reading the book on the sideline. and there were issues. We all saw it.

So this wasn't a figment of our imaginations. Now, they get into the playoffs and they finish very strong on both sides of the ball in the NFC championship and the Super Bowl. So now the question is, coming off the Super Bowl win, are they positioned to be as good? How close to as good? A little bit better? Are there things that could make them better, a little bit worse? Deonti, where do you go with that question?

I mean, to me, almost by default, they had to be worse. just because they just ran because like I said, they won so many games. And I think the AJ Brown, you know, to your point, mentioned this as well where every game that Jalen Hertz, Devante Smith, and AJ Brown started and finished

in 2024, they won. Wow. They lost to Atlanta without AJ Brown, if I remember correctly. You lose to Tampa when you don't have either of your top two receivers. And that was probably their worst game of the season. And then the commanders lost, Jalen Hertz, leave. in the first half.

And if not for some crazy second half or fourth quarter heroics from the commanders, they probably should have won that game, even with Kenny Pickett finishing it. I don't know if you can replicate that. I just genuinely don't know if you can replicate that. To assume that they'd be the same or better would also assume that a guy like Lane Johnson, who is getting more advanced in age, is going to be available all year and is going to be playing at the same kind of

all-pro best right tackle in the NFL level. You can't guarantee that. Jordan Milata misses time, right? That's a big body guy. He has suffered a few injuries over time. And I think that their backup offensive linemen have all, they've also taken some losses from that perspective as well. So it's not as strong a unit one through 10 as it's been over the last couple of seasons.

And I think that to me, defensively is really where the biggest questions are because, and this is something that we talked about going into the off season, this is going to be the year where Big Fangio's got to play young guys, whether they're flawed or not. and they've got to figure out a way to make it work, right? And I think there are going to be a lot of moving pieces in the front seven in that respect trying to figure out what the best kind of style of defense.

It is that they need to build around what they have on the back end because I do trust Cooper DeGine and Coyneux Mitchell. I'm just really fascinated to see how close they can get to being a 14-1 team again or 13-1 team again. I just don't necessarily think it's possible the way it looks right now. I feel like you skipped over the biggest question for the offense in terms of health, and that's Sequant Barclay just because of the nature of the position. Yeah, the nature of the position and his role on the team

and how important he was in this offense and making it explosive with a passing game where it seemed like the goal was to not turn over the ball and ruin things from the team rather than actually creating explosive plays. And then I do think the Kellyn Moore departure, I don't think Kellyn Moore was like some world-beater during the regular season, but those last two games, which is like if you're optimistic about the offense going forward, it's based on those last two games where they look like, a top five offense potentially.

But Kelloggler was cooking in those games. Say what you want about the first, whatever, 20 games, 19 games of the season. But those games, he outcoached bags in the Super Bowl. It wasn't even close. He clearly outcoached Dan Quaid. I didn't think that was a question even going into that. So I think that's a big deal losing him,

and then Seekwon Barclay's health. And then even like A.J. Brown, like, it is a great point that they didn't lose a game when those three were on the field together. But the drop-off for the passing game, in particular when AJ Brown wasn't off there, it was astounding. It's concerning.

It's very concerning. And he's a physical receiver who catches the balls over the middle and takes hits and, you know, bounces off the guys. It's tough to bank on him as he gets deeper into his career to be playing 17 weeks of season. So, I mean, I think we need to see a lot of evolution from Jalen Hertz. I know like Eagles fans, I want to hear me talking about Jalen Hertz. But we have to see it. I mean, they're spending so much money on this passing game. They're spending so much money on him. If he doesn't evolve, I think you have some serious questions about the passing game. And then the health of those other guys really matters. If Jalen Hertz does evolve, then I think they can withstand losing Saquan Barkley for a stretch here as long as he's ready for the playoffs. And then they can handle losing Lane Johnson for a game or two or Jordan Milada for a game or two, or even A.J. Brown for a game or two.

If he doesn't, though, then I think we're having a lot of the same conversations we had last year where they're obviously a good team. They're one of the competitors, but we're like, it just doesn't feel right. Right. Yeah, those last two, it is interesting looking at those last two games,

because listen, I was saying, this Kellynne Moore experience isn't, you know, this isn't that great. This isn't what it was built to be. And you're right. He finishes strong, like we said, with the passing game and with Jalen Hurts, it didn't look pretty. And then those last two games, I mean, he had a 96th percentile game in the Super Bowl and a 95th percentile game in the NFC championship. You know, the Super Bowl, they couldn't run the ball. That's what we were saying all year. If they can't run the ball, if a team loads on, are they able to throw the football and they were able to in that game?

So what carries over, what doesn't carry over? You know, I don't think the offense is going to look very different. Kevin Petulow, the new play caller and offensive coordinator was there. You know, he's been their passing game coordinator in a recent year. So it's like, I don't know. Nick Seriani has still had his kind of finger on it as well. And Jalen Hertz likes what Jalen Hertz likes as well. So I don't know.

It's going to look the way Jalen Hertz wants it to look. Yeah, I mean, he said that. So it's going to be some combination. I think Ruiz's point earlier is right that they turn the football over. early in the season. Then it was clear whether they said to Jalen Hertz or whether Jalen Hurts said to himself, don't turn the football over, whatever it takes. We got an awesome defense and an awesome run game.

If you care about winning, this is how we play. And that's how they played. And so that's why, you know, partially why it wasn't pretty there going forward. But overall with injury luck, I think it's absolutely a fair point. They were second in adjusted games lost last year, which is the now football, what is it, FTF. FDN has the stat now. So you can check out all the teams there.

So the second healthiest team in the NFL last year, they were eighth in turnover EPA. They were seven and two in one score games, which is a little fluky. A couple of those teams just had a touchdown at the end. But I think the big thing is what Deonté referred to at the top. Third hardest schedule in the NFL this year, if you go by Super Bowl odds.

And last year, they had the fourth easiest schedule in the NFL. If you go by DVOA. just the teams, your margin fair, all those things. It's going to be harder this year than it was last year. And having said all that, I'm with Ruiz. You still go to the hour lads and look at the Eagles roster compared to these other teams we look at it. You're like, man, they are still. It's a good roster.

I mean, I said last year was easily the best Eagles roster of my lifetime. Like, I'd never seen anything like that growing up in Eagles fans and now working. And the roster is still really, really good. So it's to your guy's point. Are they going to be as good as last year? Probably not. Are they still set up to be one of the teams that's in the mix to win a Super Bowl at the end? Yeah, barring like just horrible injury luck, they probably should get there.

We just don't know quite how it's going to look. So there you go. All right. What else we got here? Dei and I said this before we came on. Way too early prediction for the Eagles was difficult. I wasn't sure where to go with this. I don't know if you guys had a hard time or not Ruiz.

what is your way too early prediction for the Eagles? I think we're going to see the offense and defense kind of flip rankings. Interesting. I think the defense is going to take a little step back and the offense might take a step forward. I think we're going to see some improvement from Jalen Hertz. I know I've been like a Jalen Hertz skeptic, but it's been there was a time like in his career where it was like, damn, this guy is improving every single year. It's happened.

He kind of stalled the last two years. I think we see another step forward because I do think we saw some positive growth at the end of the year. you can't discount the last two games, even though I think the first playoff game was ugly and some of the end of the year stuff is ugly. But you did see some growth there. I wonder if he can kind of bridge the gap between that,

protect the football, and still take chances downfield. And I think we did see that in the Super Bowl against an aggressive Chiefs defense. I think the defense, the defensive game plan was to make Jaylen Hertz throw the ball, which is why the run game, you know, it was like my hands look like this

so your hands can look like that type of deal. No doubt, yeah. Deal. But he's going to, I think he's going to get better. quarterbacks get better with experience. So even if you can shave like 0.2 seconds off his average time to throw, I think that makes a big deal for this team. And defensive regression, I just think is inevitable when you're the top defense,

especially when you don't really expect it. And you kind of catch some people off guard. And obviously with the personnel losses we've covered. So, yeah, I think we're going to see the paradigm kind of flipped there. Okay. I like that. Deonti, what do you got for your way too early prediction for the Eagles? Yeah, like you said, before the show,

we were talking a lot about trying to nail down on something. And I think that the potential results for this season can be all over the place because the schedule is so tough. In 2023, they won a lot of those games against Super Bowl contenders. It just clearly exposed all the things that were wrong with that team. And I think that the wear and tear of trying to get through that season also exacerbated just some of the fatigue and other issues that were going on in the building. So that's just as much on the table as this team is able to pass the ball as well as Stephen is prognosticating. and they're able to win games, maybe not as dominant as it was in 2024 or 2022,

and they come into the playoffs looking like a Super Bowl contender. But for me, I kind of shrunk the scope and really just made it about one player. And I think the Cooper DeGine gives you that Jalen Ramsey in Los Angeles type of season, where he's turning a ball over. He's in the slot looking like the best slot in the NFL. When they're in base,

maybe he plays a little safety, maybe he plays a little outside corner. I know that our buddy Zach Berman has kind of covered that they've been moving his role around a little bit at OTAs, and I think that that's with intention, not just them trying stuff out, you know, because guys are missing practice.

So I think we're going to see a lot of versatility from him, and that production is going to give him a first-team all-pro type of season. I like that. I mean, they really have two guys in the secondary. Like, I feel like Quignon Mitchell's season gets, I don't want to say forgotten, but I'm like, man, he was incredible last year. Like, there were just stretches of games where they weren't throwing at him,

and you watch the film, and you're like, okay, I understand why they weren't throwing at him. he could be in the mix for an all pro type season as well. So those two guys gives you some flexibility to potentially have a great coverage unit that helps the passers. That really was, this has gotten lost a little bit where I feel like we look back now and are like, you know, you'll see the things like Eagles built with their pass rush. Other teams should do that. It's like that pass rush was a question mark going into the playoffs. They were not getting production from the edge rushers.

It was a, it was like an old school Patriots unit where built from the back to front. The coverage was so good that it was allowing the front. to get home, not the other way around. I don't know that that's a pre- you adjust to what your personnel is. So I don't know that it's going to look like that again, but that's something to keep in mind. They got some bad offense and the playoffs too, right?

They got their face. I was going to say, I would argue, yeah, I would argue outside of that last drive against the Rams in the Super Bowl, they really weren't that good of a pass rushing unit in the playoffs either, right? Like they just got hot at the most opportune time. I don't think that you can expect that to just carry over in the 20-25,

given how much use they're going to have, front. Nolan Smith is solid, good role player, has not shown himself to be a dominant pass rusher. Jalen Carter might end up being an Aaron Donald 14 sacks from the interior guy. And if that happens, and maybe that just changes the way we look at it because, you know, a rising tide lifts all boats type of deal. But I would not expect that front seven to be more dominant just off the strength of what they look like in February at 2025. All right, good. You set me up for my way too early prediction. Jalen Carter finishes top three defensive player of the year.

voting. I thought he was terrific last year. He's 24 years old. And the thing with him with the counting stats, I was thinking about this with, you know, you say, all right, defensive tackles. He doesn't come off the field. I mean, he played over a thousand snaps if you include the playoffs last year, most of any defensive linemen. If you look at just the regular season, it's like top three, top five in the NFL. And Vic Fangio was asked about that this week. Like, yeah, do you need to, you know, slow, slow him? And Vic Fangio's like, no. Nope, he's young. I'm not putting him back up in there for Jalen Carter. So I think he's got that opportunity. He's up for a new deal. He's up for an extension next offseason. And I think if he

has this kind of season, you're talking about potentially highest paid defensive tackle in the NFL. You know, does he challenge some of those edge rushers? I mean, he really has some stuff on the line. He's going to get paid either way. But I think probably the ceiling of that contract, there is some variance depending on how he performs this year. And I think he has a chance to have a monster season for the Eagles. How do we feel about Jordan Davis? He got a Peloton. That changes everything, right?

I know. We made the joke. Yeah, of course, thank you. This allows me to plug the Ringers Philly Special, where if you want, more Eagles talk, you could check that out. But yeah, this is like an annual story that Jordan Davis. Last year, he said that he gave up, shoot, I forget what it was, some sugary drink for the Whole Foods mango juice.

and my wife was boots on the ground because I'm like, I think that mango juice has a lot of sugar. She's sending me photos of the mango juice from the juice. She's like, yeah, it's still loaded with sugar. You can't be replacing whatever sugary Arizona's tea. That's what it was with the mango juice. So who knows? Yeah, who knows?

They gave him the fifth year extension. We'll see if the Peloton works and if he's able to play more snaps because he played 35, 37% of the snaps for the Eagles last year. They got a void there. We're not the most high effort snaps either. No. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's first and second down.

And it's not even every first and second down. You know, it's not like a Vita Veya type situation either. So we'll see what Jordan Davis looks like for the Eagles this year. All right, we take a break. We come back and we talk about the Washington commanders. All right, we're back on the ringer NFL show. Ruiz, before we start the commanders conversation, I have some very good family friends who are D.C. sports fans.

And like, the chests are puffed out, man. They are like, I've only made one bet this year, and it's on the commanders to win the Super Bowl. Watch out. You are living in the D.C. area. What kind of change have you noticed from the commanders fan base and how they're feeling coming off of that thrilling season in 2024? I mean, I only know delusional commanders fans. So they were talking 12 wins last year before the season even started.

I don't know. Oh, they nailed it. Yeah, I know. But it's 12 every season. So they've gotten it wrong way more than they've gotten it, right? So they're definitely more excited, and I think there are high hopes. You see Jane and Daniels jerseys everywhere. And like I've said on this spot before, I never used to see Commander's jerseys ever.

I see other teams. So they're optimistic, and they have every right to be. I don't know if it's going to work out. Like nerds like us are going to come in and talk about regression. I'm sure that's going to be most of this conversation. But if I was a Commanders fan, I'd be like, shut up, nerd. Like, we want 12 games. We're getting a new stadium to coming back to D.C.

I don't want to, you know, shit on their hopes right now, but it's probably what this conversation is going to end up being. Yeah, they went from new ownership to exciting young quarterback to new stadium. It's just like, you know, all kind of the vibes are incredible right now. Why wouldn't they be? Yeah, you deserve to be that excited. All right. Now we're going to talk about whether we think their maybe expectations are going to be fulfilled or not this year.

So the commanders come in ninth overall in Super Bowl odds, tied for fifth in odds to come out of the NFC, plus 220 to win the division, minus 128 to make the playoffs, and their over-under for wins is nine and a half. So this offseason made some moves offensively, traded for Laramie Tunsell, traded for Debo Samuel, drafted the tackle Josh Connerly Jr. in the first round. And then defensively, they kind of just added a bunch of vets up front. Chavon Kinlau, Dietrich Wise, Eddie Goldman, they bring back Bobby Wagner. They draft cornerback, Trey Amos, in the second round.

I think ultimately the offseason will probably be judged mostly for those two trades, the Tuntil trade and the Samuel trade. But there are some other things around the margins there. Maybe you guys feel differently. Ruiz, let's start with you on this one. How do you grade what the commanders did this offseason? I'm going to give them a C. I like some of their individual moves.

I think some of the over like the overpaid free agency, like that caught me off guard. I think the Lambe Tunsel trade sounds better on paper than I think it's going to be in reality. I think you could make the case for the Debo Samuel. You put that in the same category. Like it's a big name and everyone's excited. But I honestly think Debo Samuel, if he stays healthy, he's perfect for what this offense was doing last year. Another guy where you can just flip him out to the perimeter and he can get you eight yards on first down.

Replace running plays with that. You don't really have to worry about the quality of your offensive line in the run game if you have a guy like that. So I'm very, I'm still bullish on the offense. I just think the defensive moves, like resigning Bobby Wagner, although I think Bobby Wagner's game doesn't really match the reputation at this point and the accolades that he still gets, but like $9 million in what he brings to the table in the locker room, presumably, I think it's probably worth it. So I'm low on their prospects compared to last year.

Like, I don't think progress is linear, but I think the offseason was fine for me. I don't think it was an offseason that's going to prohibit them from making moves. And maybe like going in a different direction next year, it doesn't work. work out this year. What did you think, Deontay? I mean, honestly, outside of like the Javon Kinlofferns, none of the other moves really bothered me as much, right? The draft capital thing with the Laramie-Met-Hunzel trade can certainly end up biting

them. If they don't get two years, two solid years at a Laramie-Tuncel to kind of give them an anchor at the left tackle spot, that can certainly be something where we talk about a great rookie season for Jane Daniels and then they kind of waited in mediocrity. the Westover's rookie deal because they didn't have the draft capital necessary to continue to build up their coffers in depth year over year before it becomes expensive. But I ended up giving them a B-minus. I think I'm kind of happy with where their roster stands right now. I didn't hate any of the moves, like I said, outside of Ken Law. And I think that when I look at Jaden Daniels,

I know when I look at just like the rest of this team, I think that what they did last year will probably maybe not be as sticky, but it'll probably be sustained from last year to this year on the offensive side because a lot of it really just does come down to Jaden Daniels being very difficult to sack because of how explosive he is getting out of the pocket and how accurate he was on the run, which was like a new development for him coming from LSU to the pros. And I think that, you know, assuming that Cliff Kingsbury continues to build on what he's already gotten, maybe that's the biggest leap in all this is that they'll be able to sustain themselves

offensively. So I feel maybe a little bit more bullish than the rest of my co-hosts here about the commander. Where are we at on Cliff right now? I need to ask Shield because Shield's the main skeptic, I feel like, at this point. Yeah, I feel like he had a good season last year. I will give him credit. I do think, I believe he gets more credit probably than other. He doesn't deserve too much credit. You know, I think sometimes, like Leonte said, you luck into a quarterback and we'll get into some of the numbers that on third and fourth down and end of games is making place. But I absolutely will give him credit that it was a better version than I had seen from him in Arizona.

And I'm open to people changing, you know, sometimes in your career, you take a year off, you come back, you get some new ideas. It humbles you a little bit. I want to see it again, I guess basically to answer your question. I will be, if it's week eight, week nine, week 10, I will not hesitate to be like, yo, you guys all loved Cliff Kingsbury last year. Outlook. He has no answers. At the same time, if they're looking good again and they sustain, I mean, they were an excellent offense throughout last year. They had that little

lull in the middle of the season, but you take the whole season together and they were what, top five, top six offense in the NFL. And while you had Jaden Daniels, you didn't have great personnel at the rest of the spot. So give him credit, want to see him do it again, probably more skeptical than the average fan analyst consumer of NFL. So there you go. That's my answer? That's a fair answer. I think do it again is a totally fair answer, especially with Cliff, because we seen these spurts before. We saw spurts in Arizona. We saw them

that one year, they start 7 and O, and then it all goes downhill from there. I probably give them a little more credit than you do for the scheme stuff, because I thought the scheme stuff, I thought it was really smart stuff, and I don't see, I don't think it was gimmicky stuff. I think it's stuff that you could carry over to next year, and I think there is

a lot of room for improvement with Jaden Daniels as like a dropback passer in terms of like getting through his progressions a little quicker, making plays deeper into the progression. So there's room to grow there. But as Dei said, so much of their success was based on the fact that this guy could just, he had the most impressive, like, ejector button in the NFL last year.

Even like, it's very big. It's comparable to Lamar Jackson to me. And like Lamar kind of does it in a different way, I think. I think Lamar remains a passer more often. I think there's like a stat on Jaden Daniels where when he leaves the pocket, he doesn't pass the ball. when he leaves the pocket, he's running for the most part. If we could see him kind of fill that part in his game and then do the progression stuff,

which, you know, that's inevitable with a young quarterback. Like, I think that gets better with reps. I think there is room to grow. So even if Cliff's scheme takes a step back, I think, for the offense, it could, the offense could be better still. Not like in terms of results, because it's going to be hard to replicate those results, but I just think more reliable week to week down to down quarter to quarter. I took a page out of your guy's book with the,

the great and didn't give a letter. And I'm calling it boom or bust. I think this is like you could really sell me on, hey, it's week 13 and we're saying, man, they gave up all that draft capital for Laramie Tunsel and this isn't working out. Or like Ruiz said, you know, Debo Samuel's 29. He's not 33. Can you get like two good years out of Debo Samuel where they just didn't have that kind of secondary offensive weapon last year where now if he can, even if it's for 12 games,

like he can get injured and come back. How is he in the playoffs? How is he in high leverage spots when he's out there? Does he look like himself? He had a very confusing season last year. I remember a while there thinking he doesn't have it. Man, I'd love watching this guy play, but he's had a lot of wear and tear. And then he had like a couple games where I'm like, he's bad.

He looks like himself. I thought his season was underrated. And I think like Kyle Shannon had the best point. He's like when the other 10 guys on the field don't play as well, like he's not going to play as well too. Like that's just like a thing. The team hasn't played as well. Like he even went as far as saying he's not getting the same service. he got last year for the quarterback.

It was kind of a little bit of shade at Purdy in that regard. But like you said, those games when he kind of, when you saw the old Debo Sam, like that was still there. The juice was still there. And if you had the juice for one play, like I think it applies to all the rest of your. The film wasn't that bad. It's all I'm going to say.

And they gave up, I mean, they give up a fifth round pick for him. So it's like they're paying a salary. It's more of a financial commitment than a draft pick commitment. And then the tonsil thing is more of a draft pick commitment. They gave up a second, a third, and a seventh 19 penalties last year.

So if you look at that, obviously that's a disaster. But at the same time, he played over 1,100 snaps. I think that, you know, getting a very good pass-protecting left tackle. That guy still exists there. You know, how's it going to look in Washington? So I feel like there is upside with those two moves. Defensively is where I can't totally get there. You guys mentioned I thought the Kinlaas signing.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong. And Adam Peters knows something. I don't. I thought that was arguably the worst. signing in a free agency I don't understand it. I don't get that one. And then I'm with you,

Reese. I'm the older players. It's like I get it. It's risky, but like Zach Arch was pretty reliable for him. It's just sort of a reliable pass catcher is going to run his route properly and get open and,

um, and that kind of thing. And then like you said with Wagner's, it like locker room leadership, get guys lined up, knows his defense like the back of his hand. All right. If he can't cover,

um, that well, like there, there's a trade off there. Are you going to go sign a linebacker for $17 million? Or are you going to bring him back on a one year nine? So I got to a point where I'm like, I understand all the moves. I don't know if they're going to work out.

I see a scenario where it's a very flimsy take for me as a podcaster. I can't get to a point where I have a strong take on the commanders. This is like a checkback with me in August. It feels like an MBA bill to me. Like maybe I'm just saying that because of like the connections to the warriors and all that with the executives. But like it does feel like, oh, we have our core. and we're just going to shuffle out the role players every year. And, like, you know, we'll take some chances on some guys who maybe were scoring 25 points a game

and their knees are shot and maybe they'll give you something off the bench. Yeah, I think that for me, the reason why I'm so bullish maybe about this team is that I think the offensive line assuming that Sam Cosmy can come back will be much better than was last year, right? And that's kind of like, you're really taking a swing at the ceiling. So boom and bust to your point shield. If you get the kind of play out of Laramie Tunsell, maybe not that it was like two, three years ago, when he still looked like he could be a Pro Bowl left tackle. But just above average play,

then let's say Josh Connerley shows like that athleticism that I saw at Oregon, transfers right over, and now he can take that starting spot at the right tackle spot. If Sam Cosmin can recover quickly enough to be back on the field before the postseason, you're looking at an offensive line

where Nick Allegretti is your worst starter. I mean, you don't necessarily want Nick Allegretti on the field all the time, right? Because he definitely runs into some problems as a blocker from time. But if it's Tyler Biatish, Laramie Tunsell, Josh Connerley Jr. looks good and Sam Cosmy is healthy.

That's an offensive line that can win you a playoff game. It has a chance. This is a little more depth here, too, I would say. I think they can sustain an injury. Like, they could have it. I mean, having Nate Herbig, I mean, Nate Herbig, for all we know, could end up beating out Nick Allegretti to be the left guard.

And again, now you're just kind of like at replacement level, which is probably fine if your tackle situation looks as good as it can, if the draft pick you brought in in Josh Connerley and Laramie Tonzel as your trade acquisition are able to hit. And if that's the case, then all the RPO kind of hokey spread game stuff that they do that's really unique to Washington can probably work just fine in year two. And you can say just as spread out as you want to. And I think that Stephen, you made the best point about Debo Samuel. If you're looking at this optimistically, he's just going to be a high-end role player in this offense.

And you're more likely to see zone, which is what Debo does best because of the quarterback that you have under center or in the gun. Right. Right. So you can totally see how this offense can be just as productive, even if it's not just like as kind of comet shooting to the moon the way that it was last season. So I'm really kind of fascinating about, fascinated about this team in that respect. I think the thing that dictates the ceiling for this team, though, is like, how good is the skill group? And like the Debo Samuel piece is obviously part of it. But like there's been a lot of Jalen Lane hype, the fourth round rookie receiver at a Virginia Tech.

I don't buy OTA hype. I'm not trusting beat reporters to be evaluating one-thousers. We've got a lesson to learn. Yeah. But if he does emerge as something, I do think if you have more skill guys around,

like Shield made the point throughout last season, you know, they didn't have the best skill guys around them. But if you do have good skill guys, I think this offense can go even higher, maybe they do outproduce what they did last year, which is a very high bar. The one thing that we've kind of, you know,

shied away from, which I think has to be a talking point is the health of Jaden Daniels. Is he going to stay healthy? He obviously got banged up a couple times last year. He's a running quarterback. I thought he did a way better job of avoiding hits last year, but he does still have that,

you know, he has that urge to make plays, and that's always hard. But when Marriota played, he was good. I mean, you look at the stats. He was statistically, he was the best quarterback on the team last year. As I said before, Ruiz, give me Mario Mario for a month. and then get back to me. I don't want to see that.

I agree with you. Nobody wants to see it. He brought him back against the Cowboys. I wasn't the Saints. I forget which game was. I think it was the Cowboys. All right. Better or worse than last year.

So we kind of hinted at this. 12 and 5 last year. All right. I'm going to give you the numbers that you probably have handy as well. So if I miss any, you can fill them in. Eight and two. Eight and two in one score.

games, only the Chiefs and Vikings had a higher winning percentage in one score games. Fourth down, I looked this up earlier, highest EPA on fourth down of any team in the last 25 years, which is all true media's database that they go back to 2000. So no team benefited more from fourth down than the 2024 Washington commanders. Fifth, most healthy team in the NFL, according to adjusted games laws. on FTN, had the second easiest schedule, according to DVOA, faced the highest percentage of snaps against backup quarterbacks in the NFL. That is from X account, Cleave, TA.

He had a great chart on there that had all the defenses, how often they faced a backup quarterback last year. So those are a lot of things that worked in their favor last year. It doesn't mean they're not going to work in their favor this year, but those are a lot of things that you add up and say, all right, can they make up for this elsewhere, that kind of thing. So Deonti, what do you say, 12 and 5 last year, better or worse than last year?

I'm going to take the same cop-out answer I gave with teams like the chiefs, the Bengals, and the Texans, and say, like, better and worse is a tough binary to stick to this team. I will say they're in a healthier situation, right? Maybe not in terms of like physical health, but the statistics will portend more toward just like a regular playoff team than the cardiac commanders they were last year, right? I looked up to add another stat to what you gave in the fourth quarter when it was a

one possession game, so the game's within eight points. This was the number one team in terms of total EPA in the passing game, and they were like 17th in dropbacks. So this is not just a volume, bunch of completions thing. This was Jaden Daniels just blacking out in a lot of games and finding explosive offense. Obviously, I think the biggest example of this was that game against the, Cowboys, which went back and forth a bunch of times in the second half of the season where you get the long kick returns and then the Washington is able to come right back down and score again. And then I think about that Eagles game and the way that they were able to finish that, you know, with multiple drives to go score to be able to come back in that game.

So and I think that that carried throughout that carried throughout all of like November and December as well, right? The Bucks game, they were great. You know, they were great in both of those instances. They were good against the Falcons in that instance as well. So I don't necessarily think they're going to need those kind of fourth quarter heroics in order to be a playoff team. So I think that the stats will be a little bit healthier offensively. And defensively, like, I'm just kind of at a point with a Dan Quinn defense from like, all these guys are like NPCs.

Like it's going to be the same style of defense week over week. They're going to give up a couple explosive plays anytime they get in a man. And they're going to try to avoid that as much as possible with a bunch of soft zones and trying to come up with whatever the specific front of the week needs to be to take away a team's number. one run. And that'll probably just be enough to get them by. And I think that even if the schedule gets a little bit harder, I think that we'll still see a team that looks like a legitimate playoff contender. All right, I'll be the bad guy then. They're going to be worse. They're going to be worse. Like, they're destined to be worse. There's no way they're going to do what they did last year with with the close game magic guy. How many games did they went on the last play? Forget about one

possession games. The last play of the game. I think it was like six or something like that. It was insane. And like even that record, the eight and two record in close games, even that's a little misleading because the Baltimore game counted as a one possession game. That was not a one possession game if you watch it. Like Baltimore outclass them. Right. Yeah. Baltimore dominated. Yeah. I think the deep, yeah. Like I think there's a chance of the offense looks a little more reliable week to week and you're not like relying on explosive plays. But I still think this is like a nine to 10 win team. And I think they're going to struggle to make the playoffs if they do make the playoffs. And I think the one thing that you have to factor in is that

Dallas is going to be better because Dak Preston is going to be the quarterback. And there's going to be more competition for second place compared to last year. I think the Giants might be a little bit better. I don't know. We'll get to that in a little bit. But there's going to be more competition. And they, yeah, I think the schedule's harder. There's a lot of fact. They're going to have to

be significantly better than they were last year to even approach 12 wins. Yeah, I think record wise, I'm kind of with Deontay. Record wise, not as good. But I do think we could enter the, if they make the playoffs, we could enter the playoffs. we could enter the playoffs with a better feeling that they can make a run. And they made a run last year already.

I think there's an even higher ceiling for the offense to your guy's point. Year two of Jaden Daniels, potential for a better offensive line, potential for a better supporting cast with Debo Samuel, all those things. So I think that does exist that ceiling there. And so, yeah, that's kind of where I settled on them is that all right. It's going to look different. A lot of all those numbers I gave out, it's just really hard to, for those things, to all happen in one season.

So can you make up for it elsewhere? I don't think you're making up for it with a really better defense. I think the defense will be in the same range. I think you have a chance to make up for some of it on offense. But even then, that probably means one fewer win, two fewer wins, three fewer wins, whatever it might be. Also with Jaden Daniels, like, I don't, this is not to say that he's going to get worse, but I think whenever we see these, like, explosive historical rookie season, almost inevitably the second years, and there's a decline in production.

And I think the quarterback can get better. but the environment changes or things change. So I think betting that he's going to be better and there's going to be a linear progression in terms of production, I think is a little naive and goes against what we've seen. This is a league that will knock you on your ass quick

when you think about C.J. Stroud last year, who I thought showed some growth in a lot of areas, but it wasn't comparable to what he produced the season before. All right, even though I acknowledge what Ruiz is saying, I had to come up with a way too early prediction. And I love Jaden Daniel. So what do you want from me? Top five, top five in MVP.

Go top three. I went soft. I went, listen, this is a this is a June prediction, Ruiz. When we get to August, that's when you got to come with the real fire. But yeah, just to put that rookie season in perspective, last 10 years, 31 rookie QBs who played Jaden Daniels second in success rate, second in EPA per pass play, both those stats, second behind,

only Dak Prescott's rookie rookie campaign. So I loved watching and play last year, although I totally agree with what Ruiz said. I've learned this lesson. I'm with a lot of guys. Dac included. Yeah, Dak, I mean, I'll go back to Justin, even Justin Herbert. I felt like

after that first season, I think I predicted MVP the next year. And then that didn't happen. You mentioned CJ Stroud, for sure. So we see this over and over again. The rookie seasons can lie to us a little bit. And there are other guys who have horrible numbers, their rookie years.

And then the next year, they're much better. Or two years down the line, they're much better. So maybe I think it establishes some kind of floor with the quarterback that, no, they've got this in them. But it doesn't mean that the next year they're just going to build on that because it gets harder. The defensive coordinators get smarter. They now have a year's worth of film on you. And all those things actually matter. They're not just sort of coach speak or analyst speak type things.

We have so many examples in history that those things happen. And again, that doesn't mean Jada Daniels. getting worse. Like, I think, like, J.D. Daniels will probably improve, but that doesn't mean the production will improve. All right. Ruiz, what do you got? Your way too early prediction? I'm going to say, by December, we're having, should the commanders move on from Dan Quinn and hire Cliff as the head coach conversations. Oh, higher Cliff as the head coach? Yes, yes. All right. So what's the scenario where this happens? I mean, the same scenario last year, the offense is awesome, but the team stinks? Maybe this isn't even that bold of a take.

I think this is the most realistic outcome for this team. We get a bottom five defense and a top five offense, I feel like you have to have that conversation. Well, because you would also assume that he might get hired away. Yeah, Cliff is definitely going to get hired away if they have another top five offense. He has the quarterback whisper kind of narrative, even though I think he's more lucky than he's in the right place at the right time. But it's hard, though, with Dan Quinn, because he is a defensive coach and obviously he has the defensive coordinator background, and that's what he's known for.

But that's not why you're hiring Dan Quinn necessarily. I think he's more of a culture locker room guy. So it is a complicated conversation that goes far beyond the defensive results and could have impact on the team beyond what the defense looks like. But I do think we'll at least have that conversation in December. Okay. Deontay, what do you got? See, I had one take because I thought that Sheal was going to give the strongest version of the take that he gave. So I set that one to the side.

And at first I was just going to say the commanders of the NFC East winner. But I'm going to go where Sheel wasn't willing to go. we're about to get a 2019 Lamar Jackson season from Jaden Daniels. Let's go! That's going to be the 2025-26 NFL MVP. I think that you're going to see him

use just as often, if not more, in the run game because they're going to need it. You look at that running back depth chart, and it is not the most inspiring in the world. I do think that they brought in Laramie Tumsel to allow him more scrambling opportunities, cleaner pockets. If the ball's not out there,

not out of his hands immediately, I think they're really going to push him to go create a little bit more. And that does not necessarily mean that him winning MVP means that this is the number one offense in the NFL. Right? Like even as Lamar was kind of blowing all of our minds

on a week by week basis in 2019, you could still point and be like, that's a Greg Roman problem. That's a Greg Roman problem. That's a wide receiver dev chart problem throughout. I think that the same thing will exist there. I think that this team is going to win this division and be one of the top teams in the NFC

and he's going to end up winning the MVP as a result of it. You know, I'm so proud of you. I'm so disappointed in myself. I say I'm team content. Then I come in with a soft prediction. And you, as you should, are just like dunking on me

being like, all right, you know? You're going to say your team content and they then say top three. I'm coming in with this. That's a nice job. Look, man.

It's June. This show is going to be buried so far in the RSSP for everybody else about the time. This conversation actually matters. You see him trying to remember. He said third. You didn't say top three.

He said top five. Well, did I say? It was even weaker. Let me see what I wrote down. Oh, no, I wrote down top five. You're right. I said top three for Jalen Carter.

Even more embarrassing. I should just leave the show. You guys do Cowboys and Giants after the break. The Cowboys will get you back. I think we're going to give us some good time. All right. All right. We'll take a break.

We'll see if I can get back with the Cowboys. We'll do Cowboys and Giants when we come back. All right. We are back on the Ringer NFL show. Dallas Cowboys plus 480 to win the division, plus 164 to make the playoffs over under for wins seven and a half.

You look at their offseason, Mike McCarthy. I forgot about this, guys. We never followed this up. Remember when Mike McCarthy, they had to sign him because he just had so many options out there. So many teams wanted to,

what happened to that? Did we get a follow up to that reporting? I'm not as online as I once was. No, no. I think that came from the same guy that told us that he learned analytics over that. that all-season. Okay.

I think so, too. But, yeah, just wanted to check on that because we made, I remember we made fun of it, rightfully so at the time. And, well, there you go, without being too mean to Mike McCarthy. All right. Mike McCarthy walks, Brian Schottenheimer replaces him. So big change on the coaching staff. Schotenheimer hires Matt Eberfluse as his defensive coordinator.

Mike Zimmer is out. Personnel-wise, offensively. They trade a third-round pick for George Pickens. They draft guard Tyler Booker. And they're going running back by committee with Javante Williams, Miles Sanders, and rookie Jadon Blue. Defensively, they bring back Osa O'Digizua to what could be described as a bit of a team-friendly contract there before free agency. They also add a bunch of sort of, I don't even know. I'm curious to hear how you guys put this group like Dante Fowler, Kenneth Murray Jr., Kairi, I'm a bunch of guys who got a lot of pub and a lot of draft publications back in the day.

what they are now. We can discuss that. In the draft, they draft Edge Donovan Ezrauc, cornerback Chabon Ravel on day two. So that's kind of what it looks like from a defensive perspective. Ruiz, you add up all the moves, both from the coaching staff to the personnel moves. How do you grade the Cowboys offseason? This was the toughest one for me because I'm looking at It was hard. I'm looking at the depth chart and I kind of like it. Like I don't hate it. And I look at the moves all, like, as a whole, I don't hate it. Like, I feel like individually we were looking at the Cowboys every step of the way of the Aussies.

We're kind of shitting on it. Like, as Jerry lost it. But this is a good, this is a good depth chart to me. And I think the number one problem that they had last year on offense, besides the quarterback position, obviously, I think they solved with the George Pickensing, but the George Pickensing is hard because we know it goes beyond the football field and how that's going to work out. So, like, just looking at it from a football perspective, I think the offense is going to be

back to where it was a couple of years. years ago with DAC looking like an MVP candidate. I just think having that second guy that makes the defense just back up. Like they were so easy to just press. And I think that affected the run game. I think it obviously affected what you can do in the passing game. I think that just relieves so much tension for this offense. And then I think if the offense is better at the defense, like we saw the defense

kind of improve over the second half of the year. The personnel's still there. If everyone's healthy, they're obviously going to get some guys back like Diggs, overshone. I'm kind of talking myself into it. Wait, I'll save the bold prediction for later, but you can kind of see where this is going. And I regret it. I know it's only June, but I'm optimistic.

I'm going to give them a B plus. The problem is the Brian Schoenheimer head coaching hire. Like, how am I supposed to get excited about that? I don't. All right. Look at these head coaching hires that they've had, that Jerry has had. Like, even going back to the 90s, Chan Galey, Wade Phillips, Philparsels is a good one.

But Jason Garrett, Mike McCarthy, I don't get these head coaching hires. and this is another one. But maybe Brian Schoenheimer is a better head coach than he is an offensive coordinator. So because of what he just laid out, Deonti, I gave him a C plus, but I didn't really land in that different of a place. I look at the personnel moves and I'm like, that's a pretty solid offseason. Get no Digi Zua back at that number. I like their draft.

And the Pickens move, I've said it before, he could be off the team by Thanksgiving. Like, that's in play. But guess what? I would have taken that swing if I'm the Cowboys because the, there is upside there and you needed a wide receiver too and there were only so many places and so many ways to get that and you give up a third round pick and so if it fails it fails but i would have made that move i i absolutely favor making that move rather than just sitting on your hands and being like we value this third round pick we're not giving it up we'll just go with the guys we have here

because we saw that last year and it didn't work so i like that they made that move so the personnel moves i kind of liked if you're a serious organization you're going to try harder to find a difference making head coach. And we've talked about it a million times. Just the brief synopsis is that we know what Jerry Jones wants. He wants a coach he can work with, a coach that is comfortable with the structure, a coach with this being. Even that is generous. Generous. Yeah. Even that wording is generous. But so we know they're not looking at the entire pool of head coaching candidates. And so I'm not going to go higher than a C plus because I can't take you that seriously and you can't tell me you care about winning when that's what you're doing. But personnel

L. I'm with Ruiz. So I gave him a C-Past. Deante, where did you let? Yeah, go ahead. Like, do we know that that Schaenheimer's going to be a bad head coach? We don't. No, you're right about that. I don't think Pauli matters for head coaching. I just really don't. I don't know. He has been a guy that's been around some other good head coaches. It's bad was obviously one of the greatest head coaches of the 90s. I think there's a chance that he's a way better head coach than he was a coordinator. And that's the only optimism that I have on that hire. I would not have done it either. I'm totally with you. Yeah. But I think that's fair, but I think if that happens, they're not geniuses.

They lucked into it. I totally agree. Yeah, they didn't hire him because they see something in him that nobody else sees. But you are right that we should just be like, we don't know. We have a long track record, media analysts, NFL teams, owners of not really knowing who's a good head coach and who's not a good head coach. So listen, I will say, I was reading, you know, Deontay, some, I think it was the athletic coverage. Schadenheimer's trying to bring a little Pete Carroll. to the Cowboys.

I don't know if you guys have been following some of the, I'm a sucker for these stories, you know. They're playing music during practices. They got the ping pong table in the locker room. The ping pong tables always, what's the good version? Is it bringing in the ping pong table or getting rid of the ping pong? It depends what kind of,

if you're not disciplined. Then you take the ping pong table out. If you were a little too, hey, the players aren't having fun, then you bring the ping pong table in. And I got to say, they got pictures of this ping pong table. I got to know how much this thing costs.

This wasn't the one we had in the Capati basement back in the day where, you know, you're putting different thing, taping it together. I made my own ping pong table once. Bought a couple of, like, some wood from Home Depot, got some door hinges. Because my dad had bought, like, he brought home like, like, it was just like the net that you could like attach to a table and like some paddles. And we're like, we don't have a table for this. What are you going to do? So I would be and my brother went all out. You're going to put Steve Ruiz on the next Lowe's commercial, man.

Resourceful. I didn't have to do it at any time. whatsoever. I just had to screw and a door hinge on the thing. It weren't. It was a big hit in the house for like two months and then people lost interest. Who doesn't love Pinkin? Pink Tong always makes everything better. So, so Shotnymer's doing all these. He's having lunch with players and dinner with players, wants to get to know him. He said, this is a quote from the athletic. He wants to, quote, create one of the greatest cultures in professional sports. Now, I'm not saying that that's going to happen, but the archetype of a head coach that I can't stand is like the guy who's,

just a jerk and thinks he's God's gift. I'll say at least it feels like Brian Chattonheimer trying to connect to these players. We should keep like a thing like throughout the season to like measure the Cowboys, ping pong table in or out. Like every week we decided whether they get it. Well, I mean,

the smart thing to do, right, is like to lean into what you know your reputation is going to be. Because what you couldn't do is step into the role and be like, hey, I'm the genius play caller. Remember all my number one offenses? Or now that I've got the job, I can put all my great offensive ideas to use that Mike McCarthy wouldn't listen to.

Like, that wouldn't land with anybody. So I think the right move is to be like, hey, everybody's going to have a good time here. You know, he's not leaning away from the fact that Jerry Jones seems to have a pretty positive relationship with him. And I think that if he is able to bend the ear of the Jones family, just as well as he's able to work with Dak Prescott and make sure that the locker room is working well, you know, within this crazy world that is, you know, Jerry Jones' franchise, then And that, to me, is success alone.

And then we can get to all the schematic stuff when we get to it. Like, I think that a lot of that stuff we can talk about in season. I think right now he's positioning himself the way that he needs to as a head coach. Also, I will say this about the offense of the offense of the offense. Like, Dak Prescott is that quarterback where I don't really care of the offense coordinator is because that's the offense coordinator as far as I'm concerned. And I think it's going to be fine. That's fair. Yeah, he's played for different coordinators and had good offenses.

That's undeniable. That's backed up by the numbers. Sorry, better or worse than last year. So they go 7 and 10 last year. Dak Prescott starts eight games. Cooper Rush started eight games. And in something that I forgot, Trey Lance started one game last year.

Like I said earlier, what did I say? They're over under for wins is seven and a half. And they won seven games last year with that group, Ruiz. You sound like you're ready to go better on this question. Oh, yeah. They're definitely going to be better. I think their floor is like a nine-win team, assuming Dak Prescott stays healthy,

if Dak Prescott gets hurt, I think it's going to be more of the same. But I just really like the look of the offense this year compared to last year. I think that Pickens deal, I can't hate on it. Even if Pickens is off the team by Thanksgiving, I think it was a swing,

like you said to you, like a swing you had to take. It wasn't just that they needed a wide receiver. It was they needed that specific type wide receiver that could threaten teams downfield and just relieve the pressure on the offensive line, the wide receivers beating press coverage, the quarterback having to read stuff out.

I just think over the past couple of years, whenever this offense has gone bad, it's been because teams have been able to play physical, like the 49ers have just been a thorn in their side offensively because they've been able to play physical and up front against that, like on the line of scrimmage. I think this is, they finally have the personnel to deter that. And then I think DAC is going to have a bounce back here because of that.

So last year, the Cowboys in those. those eight starts with Dak Prescott. He ranked 30, the passing game was broken, is the point. I mean, he ranked 31st out of 36 quarterbacks in success rate. Was that just because was the main thing, the supporting cast beyond C.D. Lamb, he's got nothing. Was it Mike McCarthy's just a disaster right now?

Because I'm with you guys. I'll give you some very positive Dak Prescott numbers here in a minute. But I did have to remind myself that it wasn't just that he got injured. the conversations we were having about Dak Prescott and that Cowboys offense, it was not good last year, really for the first time in his career, he was healthy and the offense kind of stuff.

He's such like a high wire act quarterback that I think, like if the offense is that tremendously flawed, like it's going to just show up and it's going to ruin his tank his production. I just think that's what, he was forced into like so many tight window throws last year where like those things can go either way sometimes

and I think they broke bad for him last year. And I think it was really an unlucky year combined with a flawed personnel, and he didn't play his best football. But I do think he has a volatile style, just because he doesn't have the margin for error based on his athleticism that we see these other quarterback, these top-end quarterbacks have.

All right, Deontay, better or worse, the Dallas Cowboys? I think they'll be better. I think that Stephen made us probably made a really convincing case, and I was feeling the same way looking at their depth chart, right? Like, it's like the flirting versus harassment meme. We're like in Philadelphia and Baltimore brought in guys like, Dante Fowler and Kenneth Murray, Jack Sammore. It's like, oh, okay, these are going to be high energy players.

They're going to maximize these guys. Peyton Turner can show up and be part of their pass rush rotation. And maybe he'll look like a legitimate part of an NFL, you know, a winning NFL defense again. And you look at it with Dallas and that trust isn't there. I do think that they're going to be a lot better on that side of the ball. I think Matt Iberclose is probably a better defensive play caller than he was head coach. So I do trust that schematically he'll be able to figure something out with this front seven.

that Mike Zimmer was not, right? You saw all the same frustrations exist with Zimmer that was there with Dan Quinn. I like what this defensive backfield. I like what this linebacker can do in the Iber Flues defense where you know they're going to be throwing a lot of different looks at quarterback. And the most important thing is that Dak Prescott is going to start the season healthy. And as long as he's healthy, I trust that this team is going to win close games. We saw that the week before we came together in Los Angeles for a core week at the ringer, right?

The Cowboys and the Steelers played that big. Thunderstorm game, or we were delayed for a little while. And you saw that in the second half. And I think that was like the perfect encapsulation of Dak Prescott. Yes, he's going to make mistakes and he's going to push the ball when he doesn't have to. But when the game is on the line, there's really only a handful of quarterbacks who you'd rather have making decisions than Prescott. And I think that discontinuity, and like what Stephen's saying, the offense is going to

look the way that Dak wants it designed. He's going to play confidently in that respect. And I think that this team is going to be a lot better overall this year than it was last season. They're kind of, they're in such a different spot that they've been in recent years, you know, like we were, it was like, all right, they're going to be good in the regular season, but are they going to do anything in the playoffs? Are they going to break the drought of getting the championship, you know, finally getting to the, at least the NFC championship game? And now it's like they're over under for wins is seven and a half. You get plus odds.

If you just have them to make the playoffs here, it's kind of a, I don't want to say under the radar. They're the cowboys. They're never going to be really under the radar. But, um, less is expected. This is the first time in a while, I feel like you can be like, all right, maybe there's a little value in saying that the Cowboys are going to be better than people expect here. And, you know, I know there's going to be the playoff discourse with Dak Prescott. If you just look at him in the regular season, I mean, there are 30 games over 500 with him, 76 and 46 just when he's on the field. He's never had a season where he started at least 12 games and they had a losing record.

So I do think there's stuff here that's like, I don't know, like nine, 10 games, maybe surprise playoff team. I can't believe I'm saying it, but I think those things, I agree that those things are in play. You know, when I'm in doubt, I'm just like, is this team going to have a good passing game? Yes or no? And I feel like I probably feel a little bit better about their ability to produce that than a lot of the other teams that might be kind of on that bubble for the playoffs.

So he's 32. He's coming off an injury. We don't know if the scheme and the play calling is going to give him anything. But to Ruiz's point, when has he really had a play caller who you're like, man, this guy's giving him a big edge? He likes to get up there and figure things out at the line of scrimmage. And, you know, it's going to be the Dak Prescott offense to steal the, you know, Jalen Hertz line. It's going to look how Dak Prescott wants it to look for the most part. He likes attempting those tight window throws or at least he's made a career out of doing so. but I do think there's some upside with this group.

All right, that brings us to the way too early prediction. Ruiz teased it earlier, so give it to us, Ruiz. What do you got for the Cowboys way too early? I'm not going as far as saying they're going to win the division. I made a mistake last year. The Eagles are just a far better team on paper, and I think they have a margin for error. But I do think they're within a game of the Eagles in the division in December. And I think they finished in second place.

I think they finished ahead of Washington. That's what I was going to ask you. Do you feel like they are a better team? Or what do you feel like the gap is between the commanders and the Cowboys? And you answer it. Answered it. You like the Cowboys chances to make the players more than the commanders. I think there are at least two games better than Washington next year.

I really do. Wow. Okay. Deontay, what do you got? I'm a little bit more team in this take than I was with the commanders. I just have them being the third team to make it to the postseason out of the NFC. I think that they'll end up being a seven seed. And they'll probably be one of the more dangerous teams in the NFL

playoffs come that time. They're going to be that team on the road that we're saying you don't want to play against because DAC looks good. He's playing at a pro bowl level. The defense is kind of stabilized a bit. The offensive line is just as good as what we expect it to be with Dallas's infrastructure. And if that's the case, if those are the ingredients they walk into the postseason with, even though it has not worked out in prior seasons, I'm always going to trust a team

that walks into the postseason with a good offensive line, a reliable quarterback, and a defense has got just enough pieces to where if they can force a team, turnovers or if they can get after the quarterback, which you know they're going to be able to with Michael Parsons, that they're going to have an opportunity to win games. I like the offensive line point. I mean, Booker on paper, you never know, but he's the type of prospect who it seems feels like you draft him and is plug and play. Now, we've said that about other prospects before and it doesn't happen, but the intangibles

are supposedly off the charts with that guy, Tyler Guyton, in his second season. You hope that he can improve from what he was last year. So, yeah, their offensive line has a chance. I was looking at it the same way because I'm going, I don't I kind of like both these teams, you know? Can I pick them both to make the playoffs? And the NFC gets crowded in a hurry where now if you're saying both, if you're saying the NFC East gets three teams,

now you're getting one wildcard team from the NFC West and NFC North combined. And that becomes a little challenging. Who's the one team you're picking there between lions, Packers, Niners, Rams, whoever else you like there in the NFC West? and NFC South, I think we can all feel comfortable just picking the division winner. But the other two divisions, yeah, it gets tough. It's going to be fun the competition for wildcard spots. My prediction is that Pickens plays well enough to get a second contract from the Cowboys,

and then that contract ends up being a disaster. So you get good Pickens in 2025. Great story, just what they needed. But maybe, I don't know, this time next year, or maybe a little later than that, we're going, oh, I don't know, this isn't worked. out as well as they would have hoped when they paid him whatever they paid him to keep him in a Cowboys. One thing I will say about Pickens is I would be pissed off too if those were my quarterbacks

in Pittsburgh. It's his best situation and he should be motivated, right? I mean, he's got a lot of money on the line. Go get paid. Yeah, how he performs this season. He's got a lot of money on the line. And like you said, it's not just the players to fit, very nice fit on the same field there with C.D. Lamb.

All right. The last team, I can't wait to hear what Ruiz said, because, He said they might be a little bit better that people are expecting. I don't feel that way, but the New York Giants are plus 2,900 to win the division. The only team with worse odds to win their division is the Cleveland Browns. They're over under for wins is five and a half. I'm going to save my thoughts here for the end. Ruiz, let's start with you.

If you're a Giants fan listening to this, maybe you want a little positive positivity. I don't know how positive Ruiz is going to get, but grade their offseason. No, you're not getting anybody. positivity here. I'm sorry. Maybe I thought you teased it earlier. No, I just thought they were going to be better because they were terrible last year and Tommy DeVito was starting games. He's not going to be starting games this year.

No, but it's a bad off season. Let's start with keeping Brian Dayball and Joe Shane. F, off the, like right off the bat. Jackson Dart is your, is your desperate move? Jackson Dart, like, no, F. Like, I'm giving them an F because they had nowhere to go but up. And I don't think I haven't come across a Giants fan that

and maybe I just don't have enough Giants fans in my life that is excited about this team that can even delude themselves into talking about this team as any type of threat in the NFCE or any type of threat to make the playoffs. And when you have such a bad year, that should be easy to do. It's so easy to draw up, even if it's false hope, but false hope and a fan base. And I just don't think they've been able to do that. It's a wasted year to me. And I thought, like Jackson Dart, I don't know.

Even if he hits, like what does he become? What's the ceiling now? Like, I don't understand taking that quarterback where they took, like, in the first round, after everything we've learned over the last couple of years and the quarterbacks that we see that are emerging as the top quarterbacks and what they look like, it just seems like, I don't know. It seems like a desperate move for guys trying to save their job. But like even like to Javon Hollande deal, I guess it's a good sign. It's one of those ones that you like, as a fan base, you're happy about because it's a big name that you heard of one of the prize pieces on the market. but when I, I just wasn't moved by him. I don't think he's a needle moving safety.

I think he's one of those guys where it's like, oh, we have him in the secondary. That's not a weak link at all. It's, you know, we're solid. I don't think that's a franchise changing player at all, or defensive changing player. So I think the defense is going to be a little bit better. Just like, I just think so.

And then I think the offense will be what it was last year with better quarterback play, which isn't much, you know, much of an improvement. So I think they might win one more game, but it's going to be the same. thing and it might be more depressing given the fact that it's another year of this regime. So sorry, if you were looking for positivity, you're not getting it. That's good. That was a good pot. You teased them and then, yeah, like you said, you pulled the old

bait and switch. Deonti, are you giving them an F? Are you being a little nicer? How are you feeling with the Giants? Look, I can, well, we will boil this down. Everything we just heard from Steven, I will boil this down into one question for a team that kept everybody in place and gave away a future first round pick. Did they add any of the, who adds immediate wins to this roster. Like, I think you can make the argument for one player. Abdul Carter. Yeah.

There is, there's an argument for one player that they brought in with the team that made a bunch of signings and draft picks. There's one guy they brought in that I think adds immediate value towards winning football games in 2025. And that's Abdul Carter. Everything else leaves you in the exact same position you were in in 2024, if not worse off, because now,

not only did you make these moves that, take you nowhere. You're going to be looking at an offseason in the future where you may still need to address quarterback. You still have a bunch of other roster holes that you need to get to. They still have not figured out what they're going to do at right tackle. I still am not a big fan of Illuminaur being your right tackle of the future. I don't think that Marcus him as an athlete, right? He's an interesting prospect to go out to watch and evaluate. I don't know if the future of your tackle position is going to be anchored to him opposite of Andrew Thomas. I don't like Jackson Dart. Didn't like him coming out.

I don't know if he fits very well with Brian Dable. I don't think he may have a league neighbors his job or life any easier. And on defense, on defense, I'm looking at Dexter Lawrence and Abdul Carter, which, to be fair, like in terms of like elite run stopper versus what could be an elite pass rusher, I like that combination. I just don't think that solves any of their real problems. The defensive backfield, they spent a bunch of draft capital on over the last couple seasons and has gotten them basically nowhere. And I don't think that that's going to be much

better. I just have a really hard time trying to wrap my mind around what I'm supposed to be optimistic about outside of just like this very far-flung chance that the 25th pick of this draft is going to be the guy that's going to turn into a great quarterback. We don't have a lot of history of that outside of Lamar Jackson. That guys that get drafted out of 20 give you pro bowl level production. Like it's hand. Lamar Jackson and Aaron Rodgers. And you thought Lamar Jackson. or Aaron Rogers. Or Aaron Rogers. So, you know, like, I just don't feel great about this.

Somebody's going to have to sell me on why my take should be any different this year than last year, which was coming into the season feeling like the front office and coaching staff are all going to be looking for new jobs. Also, what year of this? What year are we in with Brian Daibel and Mike Kaftco being together? Because we're still doing the, I don't know who's going to call plays thing. In year four. Annie blocked Kafka, right?

The one time of Kafka, yeah. It's a very weird relationship. Yeah, I'm with you. It is weird. All right, I'm going to say two quasi-nice things about the Giants. And then I'm going to tell you what I actually think here. Okay, so the first is that if you look at some of the non-quarterback premium positions that Deonté just alluded to, Malik neighbor's wide receiver, Andrew Thomas left tackle, Dexter Lawrence, defensive tackle, Abdul Carter, Brian Burns, Khafen, Tibado, at edge. If you just took those as the, now I'm not, I didn't mention cornerback, but if you just took like, all right, just those positions.

on every NFL team, you would say that's a pretty good group, and those are hard positions to fill. So that is my one nice thing I will say about the New York Giants. And then two, I will say you can make the case that, you know what, they moved up from 34 to 25 to take Jackson Dart. They gave up the 99th pick and a 2026 third round pick. You can always justify taking a swing on a quarterback in the first bound. I disagree.

I disagree with that. It's not going to kill him if he doesn't. The Steel is about that. It is not the end of the world. I'm just, I'm trying to say two-quoise. I know what I gave him a deal. I mean, it started with what, it started with what he said at the beginning, which is just, just bringing these two, what are you doing, man?

How are you bringing these two guys back? How was this just not the year where you hit the reset button? You go into the draft with the top three pick with a new regime, get everybody on the same page. Let's build this the right way. How are you doing that? So you make that decision, error number one. Then number two, if you're a GM and you're making moves to save your job,

how are you going into the season with Russ, James, Jackson, Dart? Is DeVito still there? DeVito still there. As your quarterback group, I know your options were limited, but I'm sorry, you need to do better than that when your job is on the line. You look at this offensively last year, they were 29th in EPA, per play. They were terrible. By the way, that was with above average injury luck. They are returning 10 of 11 starters.

That's not mistaken here. The only guy they're changing is the quarterback. They're returning. This is according to over the cap had this table. Over 86% of their offensive snaps are returning from an offense that sucked was one of the worst in the NFL and a coach's coach and GM with their jobs on the line. What are we doing here? Running it back on offense. So they're telling us that no, no, quarterback was the problem. And now we've solved that.

And now we're going to have a competent offense. I don't think that that's going to happen. I'm sorry. I know they tried for Matthew Stafford had failed. I know their options were limited. I'm just telling you where they were at the end of last season, whenever they had that conversation with ownership that you get one more shot, to then put this product on the field is an embarrassment.

and I can't give them more than a D. Listen, there's a chance. I keep this running tally of worst records over the last 10 years because I have this. It's sort of a pet project of mine that the Jets get made fun of. The difference between how much the Jets get made fun of and the Giants get made fun of, there shouldn't be a big gap there. And I feel like the Jets take more of it.

And I think the Jets are like one game ahead of them in terms of horrible record over the last 10 years. I think there's a chance the Giants overtaking here. I think it right there. And like just your point about the premium positions, at least on the offensive side, both of those positions are quarterback dependent. Like, yeah, you have a franchise left tackle, but what is he going to do? Block for Russell Wilson, so he holds onto the ball for four seconds. It takes a sack instead of 3.5 seconds.

Like, Malik neighbors need some service from a quarterback. He's not getting it from these guys. Let's just like him 700 targets. Let's play this game. Who starts the most game at quarterback for them? I'm going James. I'm going James. He's the best quarterback on the depth chart, as far as I'm concerned.

I think it's for us. Oh, all right. I'll take Jackson DART. I'm taking DART because by the time it gets to Does Chris want to come on and take Tommy DeVito? I don't think Chris wants to Vito. Because I think by the time it gets to know, I mean, they're already in job saving mode.

And so they'll get to that point and realize that they're not doing anything this year. And so our last ditch effort is can we get this guy to show any type of, you know, they get excited over there. I mean, they were excited about cut. Think of how excited everyone was over Tommy Cutlass. If Jackson Dart has like a 200-yard passing game, I mean, he'll be treated like he's going to win seven Super Bowls or something. So the bar to clear there is pretty low.

And I think they'll realize that and try to switch up the narrative midway. He doesn't even eat that. If he has like a Drew Locke, he's rapping a young jizia on the sideline, they'll build a statue for it. That's how low the bar is crazy. Right. There you go. All right.

Better or worse than last year? I guess we kind of answered this one. But they were three and 14 last year. so it's still worth going over. Daniel Jones started 10 games for them last year. Drew Locke 5, Tommy DeVito 2. Deontay, better, worse? How much better?

How much different than that 3 and 14 record a season ago? I'm just setting record to the side. I think it's going to be worse. I just think it's going to be worse. It's aging quarterbacks. We don't have to rehash the entire list of reasons why this is going to probably go poorly for this team. But aging quarterbacks and offensive

that's been a problem for the last three seasons. It's the reason why, one of the reasons why Daniel Jones was so banged up after having what looked like a mini breakout a couple seasons ago. Like I said, the wide receiver room just does not inspire a lot of confidence outside of Malik neighbors. And I cannot get the thought out of my head

of that Thursday night game against the Cowboys where it just looked like he was just peeling himself off the turf after every target because the only option that was available was him in the drop-back game. And he was just taking targets left and right and a bunch of punishment I don't know if it's going to be much better in that respect this season. And maybe we get a great rookie season from Abdul Carter. And maybe we are having the conversation that, oh, they might have found their version of Michael Parsons

in terms of like a speed rusher that's got this ability to maybe add even more value in the run game. But that's just so lofty, right? You don't compare, you don't try to draw ceiling comps to guys that can win defensive player of the year every season that they step on the field. And the rest of the defensive backfield in the front seven, like I mentioned outside of Dexter Lawrence, It's just not enough there for me not to think that this is going to be another five or less win season for this team. I'm going to say better because I am, I'm still somewhat bullish on the defense. I'll use the word bullish in comparison to my thoughts on the offense. Like I like Shane Bowen as a DC.

I know the Abdul Carter pick I think is going to help them out. I don't mind the acquisitions on defense even though they're little, they're like shot. The Holland's hiding I don't think is as big as people might make it out to me. I think there'll be a top 20 defense. but they might be better, but it's going to be more depressing. So that's my answer, more depressing. It's just funny that the nicest thing anyone has said about them during this segment is, I think there'll be a top 20 defense.

I mean, we're not even saying. That might be the lowest bar that we've said on this entire series. But, yeah, I will say better, but like maybe one game. I mean, so here's the case for better would be that the defensive line ends up being pretty good. to Ruiz's point, you feel the competent defense. They were one in seven and one score games last year, so maybe there was a little bad there. But there were one and seven in every game last year,

so it doesn't make a difference. Yeah, yeah. They were 28th in turnover EPA last year. Maybe even those quarterbacks don't turn it over as much. However, the biggest fact, how about, yeah, if James is starting then, maybe not, but they faced the hardest schedule in the NFL this year. It's crazy.

It's crazy. teams they have to play. I haven't looked at it. I need to look at it. I mean, think of everything we said and then add up the hardest schedule in the NFL. I know it's a dumb. I'm changing my bold prediction now after watching at the schedule. I got a new one. Okay. Yeah, I know it's square to go under the teams that have five and a half wins, but if you're going to choose one, I would think this would be a pretty good team that I would say. I don't know. I have a hard time seeing them get to six wins here. All right. Way too early prediction. I'll go first.

Arch Manning, you are a New York giant. I know everyone's telling me, no, no, no, he's not coming out of school. After next year, I think they're going to be the worst team in the NFL. And I think, you know, Arch will say, all right, well, Manning, New York, I don't need to stay in school any longer. This is a good, a good situation. So I think I gave Garrett Nussmeyer to the Browns when we did the AFC North. I'm giving Arch Manning, despite all the reports that he's staying. in school, I'm giving him to the New York Giants.

Deontae, what do you got? What I've got is that by Halloween, we're going to start hearing about how the Giants are putting out feelers to Marcus Freeman and Lincoln Riley. And they're calling, you know, they're calling a Ravens OC whose name is escaping me right. Todd Monkin. Yeah.

They're going to call, they're putting out feelers to see you Spagnolo to see if he might want to return. I was a year early on that one. I thought he was going to be their coach this year. I think we're going to hear about how wide of a net they're casting for the next head coach by November 1st of 2025. This is going to be a very short experiment on whether or not Brian Daibel can turn this thing around. I think it's going to be a disaster.

When you look at their early season schedule, you've got to see the commanders, the cowboys, and you play the chiefs in prime time, you play the chargers. You've got the Eagles twice before Halloween. You've got to see the Broncos on the road on October 19th. Like outside of the Saints game, I don't see any other wins in the first eight or so games of the season. This thing is going to be rough all year long. Their biweek isn't until week 14. They're going to be just waiting for that by week.

Beat to hell. But I'm going to take it a step further. I don't think Dave All makes it out of September. September. I mean, I think they're going to get embarrassed by the Chiefs. Like DeAndi said on national television. And I think that will be enough for the ownership group to be like, all right, that's enough. We gave them the extra year.

Even that was a bridge too far for a, like, it should have been. But I think there's a chance that they leave the first month with like maybe one of the worst point differentials of all time in September, given the schedule. Yeah, I mean, I'm looking at this. They're not going to be favored. I mean, Giants at Saints, they're not going to be favored in that game. No, they are. They're favored in Giants and Saints.

It's, it's minus one and a half. Yeah. Okay. All right. Do you have that up right now? Yeah, I don't know what the source is. but okay I don't think

they'll be favored in any other game so one unless there's just a miserable backup quarterback situation for one of these other teams

and Raiders like that's that's basically the only two yeah but at the raters come on yeah they're not

going to be favored in that game at the Patriots they're not going to be favored in that game I don't think they got the lions the Packers

the Niners bounce back I mean it is yeah it is not an easy schedule I don't think it's going to be Giants fans have nobody but to blame but themselves for this, by the way.

It goes back. It goes all the way back to how they treat it. Poor Gino Smith when he started for Eli Manning. They could have had a franchise quarterback. If they let Gino play out the string there, I think they see something in them. They bring them back and you don't draft Daniel Jones. If you don't have to go, you don't give him the contract.

Just think about it. It's a, you know, it's a what-if situation. What's his name, Macadale got wronged, right? Yeah, Ben McA do ever wrong. Yeah, he was right. Yeah. there you go. Yeah, could be a totally dear. And it was all about you got to treat, you know, so and so the right way and respect and class. And here they are on a run of a decade. One of the dumbest records, by the way. Yeah. Like, it doesn't even count if you're, if you're, you know, you're cooking the books to keep it going. Like, the guy stunk and you deserve to be bench. Like, does it really, does it mean anything if you keep them in the starting lineup just for the sake of the record? I say no. I say no. A decade long run. That's one of the worst franchises. in the NFL down there with the Jets and the Jaguars.

But maybe you'll get a quarterback in next year's draft. Giants fans. All right. That'll do it for this episode of the Ringer NFL show. I'm Shield Capadia. Thank you to Deonti Lee, Stephen Ruiz. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing. Thank you to Kiera Givens on social.

I've been forgetting to thank Connor and Evans and Arjuna Ram Gopal for additional production, supervision. Bad job by me. appreciate everyone listening. We will be back next time on the Ringer NFL show. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino

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