The Ringer NFL Show - NFC Most Improved-Least Improved, Plus Tom Brady Gets Roasted | Dual Threat

Episode Date: May 8, 2024

Nora, Steven, Austin, and Lindsay begin the pod by sharing their favorite moments from the wild Tom Brady roast on Netflix. They then survey each division in the NFC and debate which teams are poised to level up this upcoming season and which ones are still lacking in development (14:19). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Nora Princiotti, Steven Ruiz, Austin Gayle, and Lindsay Jones Producer: Chris Sutton Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Musical Elements: Devon Renaldo Social: Kiera Givens and Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons. I wanted to tell you about the launch of our new YouTube channel. It's called Ringer Movies. You can follow us right now on YouTube at Ringer Movies to get full video episodes of the rewatchables and the big picture. Plus, a lot of our archives with much more coming soon. To celebrate the launch, we're going live on Monday, May 13th at noon Pacific with our first ever live rewatchables with me and Sean Fennacy and Chris Ryan and Vian Lathen. Follow Ringer Movies on YouTube. don't miss it. YouTube.com slash ringer movies. Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Pinsiati and I'm joined by the dream team. That's Lindsay Jones, Stephen Ruiz, and Austin Gale. Stephen, happy post-Tom Brady roast Tuesday as we record this.

So it'll be a little later once this episode posts. How are you doing? Did you watch the roast? Did you come here prepared to zing all of us on this podcasting? deus such as it is. No, I watched the roast. I was wrong. I'm going to take back my take from last week.

It was good content. I will say it should not have been three hours. It went a little bit long, but it was a good roast. It was one of the better roasts I've seen, and I've seen almost all the roast. So two thumbs up. I want to just compliment myself for being fairly magnanimous in opening this podcast by not just like dunking on those of you who last week were anti-roost and did not think that the Brady roast was going to be worth the time.

Austin Gale, how are you feeling? You know what? I want to apologize. I want to publicly apologize for saying I'm not super excited for this roast because this roasts like far exceeded my expectations. I actually built a sad, mad, glad, bad awards for this roast because I feel, and I don't even want to say all my awards.

I don't have to get on this soapbox. I just want to say I'm glad that we could see comics in a live show format like publicly saying this is going really well. Like, I don't know when you're watching through this two hours, like Kevin Hart,

all these guys are like, this is actually pretty funny. Like, there was a lot of moments so they're like, Glazer, that was good. Tony, wow. Like, I'm still,

like, Kevin Hart arguably has the hardest job because he's hosting and has to react to everyone's set. And obviously there's a lot of repeated jokes Aaron Hernandez got his fill. But like, the fact that in the moment you could see like how much fun

all these comics were having, I thought was like very cool. Like, I feel like I'm an anti-roast because when The sets are bad. People like kind of working through and all that stuff to see everyone like legitimately laughing and complimenting each other. I thought was was pretty good. I was really happy with the roast. One of my favorite parts was like his realization as it was going was that

all of the former patriots were like going to go in and that they were going to be good. Like he was having this like, he must have gone into it being like, ah, they're going to take it easy or they won't be funny or they will have really bad delivery. And they just kind of got progressively better. And then they were just, I think he was also a little weirded out about like how far they were going to go with each other. Like, I think the comics are all used to like at all being these very vulgar and sex jokes. I don't think he was ready for quite the amount of like crossing the line, probably, you know, jokes about oral sex and, you know, all that kind of stuff that was that actually went on. They set the tone so early. They mentioned five dead football players in the first five sets.

for Aaron Hernandez jokes and an O.J. Simpson joke in the first five sets. They were like, hey, we're going in here. This is going to be the real deal. Tom Brady almost flew off the handle over the Robert Kraft joke within like the first 10 minutes of the show. That was the one thing that wasn't okay of all of the things. I do not have any information. I'm just speculating here. I wonder if they took that off the board. Yeah, I think they might have. I honestly think they might have. Yeah. There's like one or two things. The only thing, the only other thing that I can think of is that I'm shocked that there weren't more Brady, plastic surgery jokes.

Edelman is the only one who tried it, and it hit so hard, but nobody else went there. I find it hard to fathom that Brady would have said, like, come after my ex-wife and my family so much before you come after my

alleged hair plugs. So I don't really think that that was on the table. I just think it's interesting that people didn't try more down those lines. But I wonder if the craft thing was taken off the board, just because it wasn't

a big topic and the one time it was was when Brady went up and did that. Although they could have planned that. I don't quite know where I come down on that, but I think it's a possibility. I did see, Nikki Glazer went on with Howard Stern post-post, post-roast, and he asked her, like, what else was in your notebook? Like, what were the other jokes you wanted to get off and didn't? And she had a really good one about Brady's face and the plastic surgery that just must have gotten cut for time. But I'm with, you know, I was surprised that there weren't quite as many of those. And I was maybe, I guess, a little surprised that there was quite so much. any Jazeel jokes.

And I was really excited that there were multiple jokes about Bill Belichick dating a much younger, younger woman. The ring camera joke was, was, I think the best of Brady's set. Elite, elite. I'm usually also really upset by repeated jokes in a roast.

And obviously, like, Kevin Hart's height is, like, one of them. Jeff Ross's, like, entire existence is another. Like, his face and his skin is, like, another one.

But, like, I could not get my fill on the Rob Grankowski dumb jokes. Every single one hit. every single time. It was just like, and like Kevin Hart's Rob Grankowski jokes, after his set, when it was like one of the most absurd things, anyone's like, he's like,

Rob Grunkowski clearly on some other things than alcohol. It's like, oh my God, we are going in on Rob Grankowski being an absolute buffoon. Finally, someone's good to do it. It's so good. It was so good. I am a little annoyed about how good Tom Brady's set was. Like, I wanted Tom Brady to bomb and he was good, but I will say this.

I will say this. go back and watch James Franco set at the end of his roast. I think Tom Brady stole his bit. He actually just like James Franco did. Watch those two sets back to back. I'm telling you, Tom Brady stole his bit. That's a good pull. He really leaned into like the, oh yeah, I am this guy who's like pretentious and things so highly of himself.

That's what James Franco did. Roasthead. Nor is a roast head. She respects that pool. And she knows I'm right. The roast of James Franco in general was a solid roast. So maybe Austin, now that you're on board, you can go check that out. arm yourself with knowledge the way that Stephen has.

I'm 100% on board rose. I also think that Tom Brady did not understand Kevin Hart's random F-U Tom jokes until like the 15th one. Like he kept on being like, oh no, again. It's like, dude, you don't get it. You're so far out to lunch. Just chill. Be cool. Be cool.

Be cool. And then the other thing, and I'm surprised we buried the lead here. Ben Affleck's set, I mean, I almost call somebody. Like the cops or like, I don't know. It did not look like it was going to go somewhere well. Ben Affleck said I was like looking at my friends as we were watching and I was like do we know where this is going to go like do we actually like Ronkowski was more predictable than Affleck I didn't know where he was going to end up and it was it was dark there was some dark stuff there I thought he was going to start crying at one point it was really rough yes yes Ronk was the most unpredictable grong spiked a shot glass that was definitely real glass no one knew what Grong was going to do that was the thing I'm so sorry to get this deep into it but like Nora you've turned me on to like the fucking coolest thing ever I think this roast was so fun. But like Rob Grankowski, there's a moment in his set where I don't remember exact joke he

mentioned, but then I was like, oh my gosh, he's off script. He's definitely off script. And then right after he's like, I'm making stuff up now. I'm like, yeah, you are, buddy. You better get back on the tracks here. Like, you are flying way too far. Like it was, it's cool to see like, I mean, live comedy like that too and like the errors and all that stuff. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. And I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm apologizing again because I didn't think it was going to be good and it was great. But Afflack was weird. We have to at least put that out there. He was the one bad part. He just didn't have a joke. I just don't. I just don't. know what happened there. Like he, he, I mean, no, no, there was no, no. The joke was like,

his mental state. Like, the through line for his bit was like how toxic social media is and how it's like ruining him. And I'm like, dude, chill. You need to reel this in. It's just so not the energy of what that night is supposed to be. And I mean, you know, people in comedy talk about one of the sort of cardinal rules being that you don't punch down, right? And Ben Affleck coming out on stage on the Tom Brady roast and just like pulling up some random Twitter guy who probably doesn't even exist and going on this long thing about like how difficult it must have been for Tom Brady to go to work every day. It's not an effective joke. It's also not even a joke. It's not like rooted in something that we all know to be true, right? Like when has Tom Brady ever made

a big piece of his sort of public identity that it's very difficult for him to get up in the morning and go to work because people are yelling at him online. It just was so bizarre. Yeah. To everyone's point that it was a three-hour-long event. Imagine being Zach Wilson when they say that stuff, and then it's true. We're not doing the roast of Zach Wilson. What's funny is Affleck, Affleck was going to win my sad award. You know, I said I had the Glad Mad Sat award, but it goes to Will Ferrell. I'm with his character, Ron Burgundy, is 20 years old. It's 20 years old. two decades old. It's time to do something else or hang them up. It's over. Like, I get that. Oh, I couldn't disagree more. No, I saw how high you ranked Will Ferrell and I firmly,

like, objectively disagree because I just can't, I just can't do this. Like, I can't do this. When he said Gisiel, I screamed. It's because here's the thing. Here's the thing. If you have a three-hour roast with that many people coming up there, one of the challenging things is that you know, you know half the jokes that are going to be made. And, like, I was, a set that I was lower on than most people was Drew Bloodsoe, and I love Drew Bloodso. I am, like, such a Drew Bloodso stand because I think that, like, having what happened to him, happened to him, and then just, like, riding off into the sunset and making very critically acclaimed wine is an iconic life story.

And I'm so proud of him. And I think that the fact that he brought the wine up on stage was just, like, such a vibe. And I love Drew. bloodso. I did think that his set leaned so entirely on jokes you know are going to be made. And they weren't getting there in creative ways. It was just like, Tom Brady took my job and I was in the hospital. You have to fight back against that by having some weird bits. And having, first of all, I think it's clever to have Ron Burgundy introduced Bill Belichick because then Belichick can do the, this is the only member of the media that I respect bit, which is like a funny

play on his persona. And I also just thought it was funny and weird and strange. And like, that's an energy that I think needs to be a part of the dance. I was into it. I liked it. That's my truth. It's got to be funny, though, and it wasn't funny. Oh, I thought it was funny. I really laughed hard. The part that was hard to sit through was like the Bucks. I don't even know which player was the former Bucks player that you could see in the background who just wasn't laughing at any of the jokes. And I was with him. I was like, this isn't funny. It's an old bit. Like, Drew Bledso did Rod and Burgundy better than Will Ferrell did. Like, he did the drunk old bitter guy better than Will Ferrell did.

Beyond how unfunny it was, the reason it's the sad award is that character is 20 years old. He hasn't made a funny movie in 10 years. Like, it's time to hang him up. Sometimes the cleats got to go on the shelf. Like, I don't know. Like, I just don't know if he has his fastball anymore. If he does, it's humming over the plate at 40 miles an hour and no one's laughing. I just feel like Will Ferrell is a brand name and he's not even using his own name.

He's going to Ron Burgundy. I'm laughing. I'm telling you, Austin, that I'm laughing. But also, when was the last time you saw, like, first of all, Will Ferrell doesn't do public appearances without being in character anymore. Like, that phase of his life has clearly just ended, and he's doing the Ryan Gosling thing where he doesn't want to speak as himself. And so he's just doing bits.

Like, he was at the John Mulaney thing as a character. I think he's done it at SNL recently. Like, he's not going around in the world as Will Ferrell. Good. to me this just comes down to like the jokes landed for me and they were just absurd and silly and if you're not laughing then you're not laughing I don't know that like I rejects the notion

that we are saturated with Will Ferrell content I have this anti-will Ferrell and vendetta that I need to get over it's the beauty of a roast is it is in the eye of the beholder I plead the fifth I plead the fifth what was your favorite set let's go around and do favorite joke or favorite roaster and then we can

we can move on. I'll kickoff. It's Glazer. Glazer's set was unreal. Unreal set. And it set the ton. Does anyone going in a different direction? Because she was my favorite, too.

I do appreciate Ben Affleck calling out Tom Brady's pick six against the Falcons. It was a terrible interception. And the Falcons did run the same coverage, two plays earlier. And he should have recognized that Robert Alford was going to switch onto the man. Good call by Ben Affleck. The rest of your rant was unhinged and it made everyone uncomfortable. And I wish it wasn't a part of the show. But I'm glad someone called enough for that pick.

It's about damn time. It's like shocking how badly he killed the vibe. And Sam Jay was awesome. Sam J probably one of the winners of the roast in the sense that... So good. Sam J is not a household name for a lot of people, but a lot of people watched the Brady roast and I'm sure came away with... came away super impressed with her.

Kevin Hart did a great job hosting. I mean, Brady and Belichick, like, to me, this is the lead, is that Brady and Belichick had two of the sets of the night and it ended up just being like yet another showdown. between those guys. So it was really cool. And fun to have at this point in the football calendar because it's a lot more fun to talk about than the impending schedule release.

So thank you to Netflix. Thank you to the Brady Roast. Thank you to everybody who participated in giving us some good content. We're going to move on now to our main segment, which is a continuation of what we did last week, but with the NFC where we're going to go through division by division and talk about the teams that we think have improved the most and least through free agency and the draft. And I believe we went east, west, north, south last week. So let's do the same this time. And start in the NFC East, where I know we have two contenders for most improved and least improved.

But one of the teams that Austin and Stephen, I know you both had the Giants as the most improved. So Stephen, do you want to give us your bullet points for New York being on the come-up this off-season? And then we'll move on to some of the ones that were a little bit more controversial. I mean, I honestly don't, I don't think super highly of New York's off-season. I think they almost had to win by default. Just for me, it was hard figuring out which team to pick for the best one. Or actually, which pick for the least one was the hardest, to kind of separate the Cowboys, the Eagles. And for me, Washington, which I think a lot of people would look at their draft and say they found a franchise quarterback.

They've obviously moved on from the Dan Snyder era. Altogether, they have a new coach. And maybe I'm unfair in picking them as my loser, but for me, it's about opportunity costs. Like, they went into this offseason, being able to hire a new coach. They got a clean slate. They have the number two pick behind Caleb Williams. They can get any quarterback prospect they want.

And I'm underwhelmed by their offseason. Like, I'm underwhelmed by Austin Echler coming in. I'm underwhelmed by Bobby Wagner coming in. Zach Ertz coming. Like, sign these players in 2018, and I'm excited. But I just don't think they're very, very improved from last year. When I look at the roster going into week one last year, where I see Chase Young, I see Josh Sweat, I see Cameron Curl.

Like, young defensive players I can get excited about. They're no longer here. They've been replaced by either rookies or old vets that I just heard of and that haven't been good for three years. So, like, I don't have a strong feeling about which team improved in this division. I think the division as a whole is actually taking a step back. But I do feel strongly about the commanders kind of missing their shot to take over this division. Why I didn't pick Washington as my least improved is I do think that their best case scenario this year is like a legitimate culture change.

Like trying to rid the ownership, new head coach and like bring in a bunch of players that maybe aren't good and maybe would have been better signings five years ago, but they're at least going to like bring a different set of expectations in terms of a culture to Washington. their best case scenario is coming out of this year, Uber competitive every single week. They have a massive question mark. As much as you like Jaden Daniels, a massive question mark at quarterback. You don't know what Jaden Daniels is going to be in the league. He's the only first rounder over the last five years

that had a pressure to sack ratio where he did. Ben Solac, who does the charting for the ringer, looks at his decision making under pressure is some of the worst that we've seen enter any draft since he's been charting. There's worries with Jaden Daniels. And then with the players they signed, Asnecler, some of these other guys,

they are a little bit older. The hope, in my opinion, for Washington is that the culture does change. And if that doesn't happen, this offseason is a disaster for Washington. But I think a bigger disaster in my least improved team in the NFC East is Dallas.

Now, they are the favorite to win the division. They're tied with the Eagles at plus 120 on Fandall, but I don't even think that means anything. Like the Dallas Cowboys' expectations, their interest is not winning the division. They have not advanced beyond the divisional round since 1995. Like in over nearly two decades,

the Dallas Cowboys have not played the championship game. And my worries is, it's not only did they not do enough to set up their future, like Dak Prescott, DeMarcus Lawrence, Zach Martin, all on contract years, Michael Parsons, they're late on that extension. CD-LAM, they're late on that extension. Not only are they not set up beyond this year,

but I worry, specifically with their receiving core, if that's enough to even get them to an NFC championship. Like, outside of CD-LAM, it's Jalen Tolbert, Brandon Cooks, Jake Ferguson. I don't think that's enough complimentary pieces to CD-LAM for this to be a deep playoff competitive team.

So not only are they, quote, unquote, all in on something where they at best are winning one, maybe, maybe, God forbid, maybe two playoff games. I don't think they're a Super Bowl competitive team. And then you factor in after this year, a lot is going to change. Lawrence could be gone. Martin could be gone. Prescott could be gone. We don't know what's happening with C.

Lame and Michael Parsons. That really worries me. This was the off season for Dallas, not just to go in all in with this, like, contract year with D. D.C. Prescott, but also re-signed some of their stars, like Micah Parsons, C.D. Lam. Like one of the few players under contract next year and beyond is like Terrence Steele and Trayvon Diggs. And everyone after that is still obviously on rookie contracts and all this stuff.

I don't know. I worry about Dallas not only for this season because, yes, maybe they do win the division. Maybe they do win a playoff game. But I still have doubts that they're going to get that monkey off their back in terms of winning a divisional game, a divisional playoff game. And then you factor in they're not really set up for after this season. A lot to be concerned with in Dallas, in my opinion. Let's save the Cowboys because we've chatted about them a little bit and because I think we've talked about their offseason. on prior pods.

But on Washington, Lindsay, you actually had them as your most improved team. And that was one of the few in this list where we had a most improved, a team that was

someone's most and someone's least improved. So I'm curious what you liked about their moves. Yeah, and I did that in part because of what Stephen was talking about, that the whole division was weird.

We had a couple teams who maybe didn't do a lot. We have one team with the Giants who made some substantial moves but still have Daniel Jones. and Drew Locke as their quarterbacks.

So I kind of looked at it as Washington had a lot of work to do this year, and they did it. I have no idea if these moves are going to work. And I'm with you guys and that like some of the names aren't that great. They would have been great seven, eight years ago. But just in terms of like volume and the amount of work that Adam Peters and company had to do this offseason, I was kind of like, they knew that they needed to churn this roster. they needed to, you know, basically add competition or a new starter at basically every position outside of like wide receiver one, outside of like Terry McLaurin.

Like everywhere else there is some sort of either a new starter or a job that's going to be open going through training camp. And I thought this was this number was interesting too. According to over the caps, Jason Fitzgerald, right now Washington has just 57% of last year's team returning. That's the lowest number in the NFL. And I imagine that that might actually change as we get towards a 53-man rosters being set later in terms of like newer guys that are going to come in and beat out some of these veterans. Some of these veterans all end up getting cut later. And then I will say, I just want to throw out one more move for their,

in their favor for this offseason. They signed Sam Hartman as an undrafted pre-agent. So their roster might not be better, but they are exponentially hotter than they were last year. Essential information. Cliff Kingsbury is also on the roster now. I don't know. That's my tiebreaker. We can decide whether he's still hot. He's like the Bobby Wagner of hot football guys.

In 2017, Cliff was like, oh my God, Cliff Kingsbury. He's not the Bobby Wagner of hot football guys. He's still hot. We can talk. I'm happy. I'm happy to shit on Cliff Kingsbury for anything but his hot. He's still hot. He's absolutely still hot.

I'm sorry. He's not the Bobby Wagner of hot guys in the league. Austin, this is a terrible take. We'll table this for another podcast. No, you're wrong. Okay, okay, okay, okay. I'm sorry, he's lost it, man. He peaked in the COVID draft.

Seven years ago, I'm with you. Seven years ago, with you. It's like looking at, it's like comparing Bobby Wagner to Fred Warner right now. If Cliff Kingsbury has lost it, I'm cooked. It's over. Like, I'm never, it's just, if Cliff Kingsbury is no longer hot, it's over.

Austin, I just want to break some news to you. of Cliff Kingsbury and Sam Hartman were the bar, than me and you were cooked a long time ago. But I will say this. For me, I do think the vibes around, not only the coaching search with Ben Johnson and all that weirdness, but with like the top golf thing, like the way they just shut down Belichick as a candidate

for their head coaching job. Like, Austin's talking about a culture reset, but like the vibes are still a little weird from the new regime is all I'll say. Yeah, that's the most concerning thing about Washington. right now, I think, is that they haven't exactly beaten the vibes are still bad allegations. And coming from where they've been coming from historically under Dan Snyder, that feels like a... That shouldn't have been the toughest task.

And yet it doesn't quite feel like they're there. I have to say I'm a little higher on them. I don't love the long-term ramifications of their off-season. But I do think that in the immediate, just for this year, some of the upgrades that they made will. be upgrades and we'll make a difference. Like I liked the Biatish signing, you know, I don't know if Bobby Wagner's going to be worth the money in the long term and stuff like that. But I think they'll be able to, it's a little bit like a JV version of what the Bears sort

of started trying to do a couple off seasons ago where it's just sometimes you need an adult professional to play a position. And even if it's a little bit too expensive, at least in the short term it helps. So I end up going with Dallas for. least improved just for all the reasons that we've laid out here. They just, it's a critical moment for the franchise. Jerry Jones talked about being all in and then it was just like, they didn't do anything. Let's move to the West.

This was interesting in the sense that there were three different answers for most improved. So, Austin, you went with the Rams. Why don't you kick us off and give us your case for L.A.? The NFC West was the hardest division to come up with the most improved and least improved. I have the Rams here. I like them adding Jonah Jackson in the free agency. I think Pooka Nukua going into year two, he's going to naturally develop.

I think that they overpaid for Braden Fis, the defensive tackle out of Florida State, and they obviously added Jared versus, the defensive end out of Florida State in the draft. But those are two starters along the defensive line. They added Trey White and brought back Darius Williams at corner. Those are two starters, like new starters at cornerback. They still have the young guys that they played last year,

Daryon Kendrick, Kobe Durant. But like, they can now be depth pieces if those veterans, Trey White and D.A. Williams actually win those starting jobs. Like, but still, like, I couldn't pick the Niners here. I couldn't pick Seattle here. Seattle's my least improved. Arizona, yes, may be improved,

but I still have doubts that there are going to be anything in this division. So I did end up picking the Rams, but this is a tough one to call. Well, so you said that Seattle was your least improved. Stephen, you actually had the Seahawks as most improved. So let's do a little showdown here. Talk to us about what you liked Stephen in the Seahawks offseason and then Austin can try to, can try to deflate the balloon. I'm such a hypocrite.

because we just came off me like questioning the commanders improved vibes. But this is a vibes-based pick, like bringing in Mike McDonald's, who I thought was the best head coach candidate on the market and a guy who transforms not just your defense, but like how you coach defense, how defense is taught, like your whole coaching stuff. I really do think he's going to have that type of impact. For him, I don't think it's like an X's an nose impact. I think it really is like how you structure your coaching staff and how you empower your

assistance and make them better. because once they get better, your entire coaching staff gets better. So that's what it is for me. I do think they needed to revamp their defense and kind of just like put an end to the Legion of Boom era. Obviously, the players have changed since then. But this was the first off season. They made a big deal about taking the pictures down in the facility and all that. But like purging the roster of like the last remnants of the Pete Carroll era, like that happened this year.

And I think you can start to see this team, whether it's the offense with Ben Grub being brought in. That's like a higher. I don't think Pete Carroll ever makes that type of hire. He's not hiring an OC from the college ranks because we know how, like, I think he got a little unfair criticism about being outdated with his beliefs on offense. But I think this is like a move in the other direction that he would have never made. And then just getting rid of like Bobby Wagner,

who I thought was past his prime, Jordan Brooks, who was a draft pick meant to be the next Bobby Wagner, getting rid of him, I think was a smart move. And just resetting the roster and building the defense in the image of Mike McDonald and how he likes to play. And then further investing in Gino Smith.

I just think it's a smart move. I think they have a top 10 quarterback on their hands. And there was a universe where they go into the offseason looking for more, get rid of Gino Smith, and then don't come up with more. So I think that's a win. Extending Gino Smith or establishing him as their starter going forward. The way to Stephen's heart is, as always, increasing a commitment to Gino Smith. We knew that that was going to work every time.

I'm actually with you on this one. Just the easy W. But also, the margins are so thin. Like I very easily could have picked them as the least improved team in this division. Because like Austin said, teams really stay the same here. So here's where I think this makes sense, though, is that, you know, you can describe it as a vibes-based pick, right? And sort of ushering in this new era. But if we think about the last few years of Seahawks football, other than the changes they've made at quarterback

and eventually setting, at least for the time being on Gino, The number one thing that's been going on with that team and that roster has been this like wishy-washiness and shuffling of what they want to be defensively. Because they have talent, but for the last couple of years, one of the big issues has been they just can't decide. They can't decide what they want to be. They can't decide how they want to deploy it. They're, you know, they're changing their defensive fronts for better and worse results. It's sort of like, you know, Pete Carroll, I think it was admirable that he had the flexibility to say, okay, like my bread and butter. is not working, so I'll try to adopt somebody else's tendencies and somebody else's

style and schematics. But he didn't quite know how to implement it. So I think the fact that, you know, they're getting the guy who knows how to do the thing that they have been trying to do. And so I think that contributes to just like it feels like an exciting time and an interesting time for the organization. But I think it also, I think there's a way to take all the stuff that you described as vibes and draw a straight line to stuff that's going to help on the on the field. Why I have Seattle as my least improved as one, the first reason is that it's hard to pick one in this division, as we've already said. But if I had to rebuttal, I do think I was really high on what the offense coordinator Shane Waldron did with Gino Smith. And now him going to Chicago and

them having to move on from Shane Waldron, I think it's going to have an impact. Their new offense coordinator, Ryan Grub, he had this Twitter post saying, I was not selected to be the head coach of Washington. And he also, who he followed Kalin DeBoer, the new Alabama head coach from Fresno State to Washington. And then when Kalin DeBoer went to Alabama, he's like, yeah, we're good. Thanks. So Washington said, no, we don't want you to be our head coach. And DeBoer said, no, you're not coming with me, Alabama. So now he's going to be a first year offensive play collar in the NFL with a team that is obviously, like, talented and Gino Smith is talented. But like, that's a tall order, right? First year offense play caller, tall order, especially replacing Shane Waldron. Then you layer in the fact,

and I think this is my, like, the reason I had to put them there. May 1st, 2023, the Seattle Seahawks were plus 275 to win the division. They're now plus 800. Like, the perspective, like, the Niners have distanced themselves. The Rams have reinvigorated their, you know, or like reignited their ability to, you know, compete in this division. Like, the Seahawks are getting passed by. Like, there's a reason, like, and I like Mike McDonald a lot, but we can't pretend that

going from Pete Carroll to Mike McDonald is an upgrade, right? I don't know. Like, at least. it's a wash. Like there's still a lot of unknowns with Mike McDonald's going from defensive play caller, obviously, to head coach. There's still a lot to, and that starts with hiring Ryan Grub as offensive play caller here. I think Seattle's got more question marks than people are willing to let on. I think that's reflected in the betting market right now. Plus 800 to win this division, this time last year, plus 275. I do think that the Rams and the Niners are going to be

the two horses that lead this race. One thing I would say about that, though, is the Rams lost the greatest defensive player of all time. Like, only three teams can say they lost their best player this offseason. The Rams, the Eagles, and the Panthers. And I wouldn't want to be in the Panthers and Eagles category found the Rams. Isn't a fair bit of the change in the betting markets a reflection of how people feel about Brock Purdy now or Brock Purdy's ability to work in the San Francisco offense versus how that was seen this time last year? 100%. And if people's faith in Brock Purdy is driving you further away from a division title, your team might not be that good.

Your team might not have it. You know, like, if Brock Purdy getting better and people like, wait, he's kind of good, is moving your team further out of contention, I don't think you've made the right moves to compete in this division. Is it people being like he's good or is it people being like he can work in that offense, which we do have some degree of proof of concept for it? There also is, oh, he has an elbow now. He has an elbow, yeah.

Right, right. True, true, good point. There are actually two quarterbacks in this division who I think as opposed to this time last year, we have a little bit more information about the workingness or lack thereof of the elbows, which might contribute in some way to a decrease in the Seahawks relative expectations. It's also not an elbow, but Kylobury also had a torn ACL. So like every other quarterback in the division was like... It's just the other quarterbacks are alive.

All of us except for Austin, myself, Lindsay, Stephen, we all put San Francisco as the least improved. Now, of course, having been participants in the Super Bowl last year, improvement is only marginally available. Lindsay, the one team that we haven't talked about as the Cardinals, who you had as your most improved. What did you like about their offseason? Well, I think this is similar to why I had Washington at the top. I was thinking of this, like, this exercise in terms of where were you at the end of the season? What sort of resources did you have to work with going into the offseason? And where did you net out?

I don't think this, or at least I approach this exercise is not who is the best team in the division, not necessarily who made the biggest jump, but who maybe did the most with what they had available, who made smart moves where you can kind of see what the process is. And, you know, Arizona clearly had the lowest starting point in this division, but they had draft capital to work with. They had some money to work with. And I really like what they did in the draft. And this is two years in a row now where they've come out with one of the strongest draft

classes, the smartest draft moves that they've made. And they probably drafted four day one starters. And, you know, a couple of those, obviously Marvin Harrison Jr. I mean, I think he was probably the best pure football player on a lot of people's boards, maybe outside of, you know, Caleb Williams. But, you know, he's going to start day one. And the expectation for him, right, is that he's going to be one of the very best wide receivers immediately.

So that's a significant upgrade at a position where they really desperately needed one. Derr's Robinson. He's going to start. They really needed pass rush help. Corner Max Melton, he's probably going to start. And Guard Isaiah Adams is probably going to start. So that's four starters out of your, from picks from the first two days of the draft, which that's exactly what you want to do when you want to kind of build something.

the right way. I still think there's a long way for them to go to catch up to the rest of this division. But just in terms of like smart building, smart processing, it's just hard to argue too much with any of the moves that they made. Also, as Stephen said, Kyler Murray, intact ACL. That's an upgrade. A helpful thing for your Arizona Cardinals. Win. Yeah, just on a sheer improvement basis. They feel like, they feel like kind of the winner here. Any other NFC West thoughts, Steven? I see the lines kind of like in 2021 Lions range where it's still maybe a year away.

I think it's admirable that they didn't push all their chips into the table. I think they're biding their time. They're being patient. So I think they had a really productive offseason. I don't know if they improved the most, but I can definitely see what Lindsay's saying. In this division, the margins are so thin. I think they clearly improved the most. I don't know

that that might still mean that they're the worst team in the division. But just in terms of, to At the the addition of starting caliber players, they would be

my pick as well. Okay, let's go to the north. We probably don't have to spend that much time on this division

because this is where we had consensus on both the most improved team and the least improved team, which are probably

pretty obvious. The Bears are the most improved. They get a quarterback who has a solid chance to become the best quarterback in franchise history within a year, if not less than that.

I'm not saying that Caleb Williams is a surefire slam dunk to do that, but it seems eminently reasonable even within his rookie season, which is pretty remarkable. And then obviously they're able to add hopefully more starting caliber talent in the draft and that coupled with the fact that they have sort of reshaped that roster to be really ready to compete over the last couple of off-season. The Bears were the clear peck for everyone here. Lindsay, do you want to say anything about Chicago's off-season

before we talk about least improved? I think the one thing I just want to point out is that like we've talked a lot about vibes picks. The vibes are really good in Chicago. and there was so much discussion before the draft, right, about like Caleb Williams' personality and like, is he, you know, kind of a normal quarterback the way that we, you know,

typically have evaluated them. And like his arrival in Chicago since the draft two weeks ago has been like A plus. Like he's hitting all of the right notes. He's saying the right things. He's making a lot of public appearances. And he's also talking a big game. I loved this quote that he said kind of about the expectations.

All these things that we're talking about, Now, his quote from a couple days ago, he said, what's the reason to duck? It's here. There's no reason to duck. I'm here. Rome's here. Keenan Allen, the top five defense we had last year, special teams, all the new roles, whatever, we're here.

And I just love that they're kind of putting it out there. So vibes are good in Chicago. And after what they've been through with that organization over the last few years, like they deserve it and they should enjoy it. I don't think that's like an underrated thing with them. Because like, think about how bad the environment that Justin Fields was just thrust it into. Like even like that first game against Cleveland when like Miles Garrett is

firing off the edge, he can't even drop back. Like at the very least, Caleb won't have to deal with that, which is a massive improvement. I mean, we all pick the bears because like they added the quarterback. They added all these pieces. I want to give a shout out to the Lions just because I think like we have questioned their offseason strategy the last couple of times.

Like last couple of years, like I did last year, certainly. But I do like what they're doing at cornerback where they're just like, you know, just throwing a bunch of darts at the dartboard. They bring Carlton Davis. Obviously, they draft Arnold, Rach Strawl in the second round. I really like them building a cornerback group with different body types. Like, you have the big guy in Carlton Davis. You have guys who can move around, like, Amy McRobinson, a smaller guy who is more agile,

who can guard those slot guys. You need that in the modern NFL to play man coverage, and that's what Detroit does. I think this is the first offseason where they've invested heavily in that position. and I think the moves that they've made have been smart. They have invested in that position in the past. I just don't think the moves were as big as they needed to be. I think this is the first time they really made an investment. Austin Lyons, anyone else you thought about?

I know Chicago was sort of clear here, but if there's a runner up for you? I think the lions are a fair runner up. I do like how they have addressed needs. They're like, hey, we need help in the secondary. They threw the kitchen sink and everything they had at it, adding the body types that Ruiz mentioned. I think how they attacked it in the draft. I think even trading up for a non-quarterback in the Alabama.

Manma Corner carry on Arnold. Usually, analytics say don't do that, but the trade-up was not that bad. Like how much they gave up to go up and get Arnold, I thought was actually impressive, adding Carlton Davis, adding Ernest Raykesha to Missouri.

I thought they attacked that positional need really, really well. I still think, obviously, that Caleb Williams led bears are the most improved team because you have what could be the best quarterback in Bears' history. Like, no Bears quarterback has thrown for 4,000 passing yards. No, no Bears quarterback has thrown for, 30 touchdowns in a season. He could do that this year. Like, he could be the single season passing leader for the Bears this year with

Keenan Allen, DJ Moore, obviously Romadunes Day to pick out number nine. I mentioned Shane Waldron being a loss for Seattle. He's now in Chicago. I really like that upgrade over Luke Getsey. And then he's so good. I'm so glad you brought the vibes. He's so good that he's doing that dumbass bear claw thing and people are pretending they like it. That's how much they like Caleb Williams right now. He's doing this little weird bear claw. thing in his public appearances and they're like, wait, that's actually really cool. It's like,

damn, you guys like him that much? You like them that much that little bearclothing is really moving you? The vibes are insane. Now, I will say, jokes aside, Caleb Williams, one of my favorite quotes. I'm so glad you brought up quotes, Lindsay. I had this one ready. He said, why are you the guy for the Bears? Someone asked him on NFL Network. Why are you guys the guy for the Bears? He says, because I care. I care about the fans. I care about the game and I care. And I'm like, dude, let's freaking go. Like, yeah, he freaking cares. It's why he's crying with his mom. That's why he's so emotional. He fucking gives a shit. And like, that's fucking awesome. I think, uh, I think Caleb Williams, the vibes are good, so good that even his little bearclaw thing's getting love. I think the bear's

vibes can be better. Is it possible that the, that your reaction to the bear claw thing? Is this like a former Cincinnati resident? Um, Bugaboo, Austin? Because of the Cincinnati bear cats. Maybe. I also, I also just feel like it's so low hanging fruit, like the little bear claw thing. I think that Arizona does it with like bear down. It's not like the first time anyone's done it. But like, Chicago's like, wait, did he just unlock something for us? Is this our new? thing? It's like, wait, dude, come on, everyone's doing this forever. I don't know what you're talking about. Arguably, the Chicago Bears should have a little bit more jurisdiction over a bear claw than Arizona, but, you know, I don't make the rules. Anybody have love for the Packers

or disappointment in the Packers? They didn't improve the most, obviously. They were the one team I didn't consider for this. You could make the argument. I made the Vikings my least improved just because they lost Kirk Cousin's, but you can make the argument like over the next couple years, they're the most improved, like, foundationally. But, like, the Packers had the off-season they needed to have. They got rid of their two biggest holes. They got, they figured out their safety room. They had the worst safety group in the NFL last year.

They figured that out. And they got rid of Joe Barry. Like, that's a win. I don't care who the replacement is. Like, that's a win. And those two in lockstep are, that's what was holding this team back for the last couple of years. So I do think they had a successful off-season. It just isn't one that moves me too much.

The most overused stat last year at the Green Bay Packers that were the youngest team in the NFL. They got older. Like, we know that they got older. Like, the Green Bay Packers are one year older. Of course they're going to be a little better. I think that they're not more improved than the Bears, but I do think them getting older as a team is huge. Like they have all their receivers are on rookie contracts. Jordan Love obviously is super young. They got younger at running back somehow moving on from Aaron Jones to Josh Jacobs. Like they did a good job. I think the Green Bay Packers improved bears still. Like going from like bottoms of the league, like horrible to where they are now, I think it's still the most improved.

I would just say overall, I think this division is the most improved on paper throughout the league, regardless of conference. Definitely. Like, this was the best of offseason. So we all had the Vikings, and I think we've sort of touched on the reasons why, although I like Stephen's point that they might be reshaping themselves in a way where it opens the door for them to be in the most improved category in future off seasons. But Minnesota, obviously, and saying goodbye to Kirk Cousins.

sort of seems like the obvious choice for least. Let's go to the South, an interesting division in which there was consensus on the most improved team being Atlanta. Therefore, despite the fact that the Falcons had a much maligned draft situation, expectations still relatively high just because of the Kirk Cousins thing. There, least improved. Everybody chose a different team.

So, Austin, you had the Bucks. Why don't you outline that for us? Yeah, I mean, I think why consensus with Atlanta, you add Kirk Cousins, you're now the favorite to win this division. There are only three teams in the NFL with a better than 50% market implied odds to win their division. It's the Chiefs, the Niners, and the Falcons. And the Falcons are obviously not a juggernaut like the Chiefs than the Niners are,

but they're so much better than their competition that, like, they're obviously the most improved. And with the Kirk Cousin's edition, throw the Michael Pennix pick aside. For the Bucks and why I feel they're the least in, approved is, yes, they brought all their guys back. They re-signed Baker-Mayfield. They re-signed Mike Evans. They re-signed Lamonte, David. And I don't even care that they lost Carlton Davis on the defensive side, the corner, Devin White at linebacker, and Shaq Barrett. Like, I don't even care that they lost those guys. I don't even, I'm not even saying that those are like big losses.

My biggest thing is Dave Canales has gone. The former offensive coordinator, who was the seventh offensive coordinator that Baker Mayfield has worked with in his career. And he'd actually unlock something with Baker Mayfield that we haven't seen, which was average play. Now Baker Mayfield is going back to an offensive coordinator he had for five games in Los Angeles with Liam Cohen, who is just last with at the college level with Kentucky. I worry that him going through another change at OC, even with the resigning of Mike Evans, even with the supporting cast to have him placed offensively, I worry that Baker Mayfield's not going to be able to keep pace. He had a very, very good year last year under Dave Canales, who's now the head coach of the Carolina Panthers. And very good for Baker Mayfield was like middle of the road. like middle of the road in terms of drop back efficiency,

middle of the road in terms of how he handled pressure. They didn't add weapons on the offensive line or at receiver. They just brought guys back. And then to say Liam Cohen, who had spent five games with Baker Mayfield with the Los Angeles Rams in 2022. And the only game that people remember is when he came in off the bench and beat the Raiders on a short week. I don't remember it either.

Josh McDaniel's that goddamn visor. I hope you hear this. But like Baker Mayfield and Liam Cohen, I don't know what that pairing is going to be. And I worried that Dave Canales unlock something that Cohen is not going to be able to, especially with this receiving core is getting older. Like this entire team is getting older. They're my least improved team because they didn't add much and they lost a big thing,

I think, in Canals. So, Stephen, you actually had the bucks too. So I should acknowledge that there were two in the Tampa Bay category. Lindsay, you went with the Panthers. You want to outline that for us? Yeah, I think they started this offseason in the worst position and they didn't do anything significant to get that much better. I still think they're the worst roster coming into.

the offseason. I still think they probably have the worst roster top to bottom. They lost their best player this offseason, as Stephen mentioned before. They really fucked up the franchise tag situation and traded away Brian Burns. So I just, it's hard to see areas where they significantly got better. I mean, I think you could make the case that the wide receiver room is slightly better than it was last year. They traded for Deontay Johnson from the Steelers who, you know, had kind of gotten into Mike Tomlin's doghouse there probably needed a change of scenery. And then they traded up into the first round to get Xavier Leggett at the end of the first round of the draft. So I think, you know, those are kind of some like marginal moves that they needed to make. But this is the team

that was bad and they're going to stay bad. And the biggest talking points, the things that we're going to remember about the Panthers for this offseason is going to be more David Tepper making an ass of himself and them making bad moves and not being able to retain their good players. So I just think that this was an opportunity for them. They brought in fresh start, new GM, new head coach, and they just haven't been able to capitalize on it yet. I'll shout out the Saints, too, as at least having an argument in this category as well, because they only had two picks inside the top 150. They never have any money. So it figures their offseason wasn't that splashy to begin with. And their top two picks make sense to me. I think

Talese Fuaga is a good tackle, a good pick. And they got Koolaid McKinster in the second round. The thing to me, though, is just that Fugga might have to replace Ryan Ramchick if his knee issues are not something that he can overcome,

which basically means that for their top pick, he's either, it's either, you know, you lose a good player, you gain a good player, but a young player who might need some development. And otherwise, they're probably going to have to play him out of position.

Obviously, they'd prefer that, that situation to the alternative, but it's just hard to, you know, they didn't have a lot of resources. And even with the ones that they did, it's more about patching holes than it is actually getting better. All of this is to say that even after being the most mocked team during the draft, the Atlanta Falcons once again enter a season in which they have just absolutely no excuse

to not go and win this division. And I'm, you know, I'm, of course, very excited to see the ways in which they find a way to to avoid that. All right. I think we did it, guys. That's the NFC. Pretty good. And good Brady roast stuff.

A lot of fun. We will close it out there. This has been the Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Prenziotti. Thank you to Lindsay Jones, Austin, Gale, Stephen Ruiz. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing this episode

and Eduardo Ocampo for his work on socials and video. Thank you to Connor Nevins and Arjuna Remgapal for their additional production supervision. and we'll talk to you soon. Must be 21 years or older, 18 or older in D.C. And present in select states.

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