The Ringer NFL Show - NFL Combine Results and Impressions | The Dantasy Football Podcast

Episode Date: March 3, 2020

From a hotel room in Indianapolis, Danny and Danny offer their initial takeaways from a star-studded NFL combine. We start by discussing Alabama quarterback Tua Tagovailoa’s promising medical examination, then break down the elite potential of guys like Alabama wide receiver Henry Ruggs III and Wisconsin running back Jonathan Taylor, and many more. Hosts: Danny Heifetz and Danny Kelly Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, guys, this is Kelly, and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. Recently, on the Winging It podcast, Vince Carter and Annie Finberg sat down with NBA All-Star Kyle Lowry and recording artist for Timmy. This week, 2017 first overall pick Markell Fultz joins the show to talk about living up to expectations and working his way back from injury in the NBA. Make sure to check out Winging It on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Danecy Football Podcast on the Ringer NFL show, on the Ringer Podcast Network. name is Danny Hyphits, and I'm joined as always by my co-hosts and my co-danny, the hero we need and

the analysts we deserve the Dark Knight himself. Danny Kelly. How are you doing, D. Kelly? I'm doing really well, man. How are you doing? I am fantastic. You sound a little drained. Yeah, it's been a long week here at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis. I think I'm losing my voice a little bit, but, you know, we're just going to kind of push through it. We're going to, these players have had a very, very tough week, and, you know, we're going to use that. that is inspiration and get this thing, get this thing done. That's it. You're losing your voice, but we're going to find it.

That's what this is for. We're all going to find our voice here in Indianapolis. Yeah, we're going to look at the combine from this week, a little bit of a fantasy lens. We're going to give just your impressions, your expertise, run through the prospects. Prospects. I'm just losing my words. Are you losing your voice? I don't have my words anymore.

But yeah, who boosted their stock, who went up down? Overall impressions, yeah. Do you have any overall impressions from the combine In general? In general? Yeah. Do you want like my honest... Well, because here's the thing.

I'm supposed to like have really smart thoughts and stuff. Like, do you want to know what my actual thought from this week? What's that? I just can't unsee all the scouts for the 40-yard dash who like are hand-timing the 40-yard dash in the year 2020. It's the most absurd thing. There's like actual lasers and sensors and slow-motion cameras that capture the 40-yard dash to the hundredth of a second.

And then there's all these scouts who are like sitting in like section 115 of Lucaswell Stadium, like hand timing and just trying to like click it, click it right on the nose. Because like, what is the actual explanation on God's Green Earth to be hand timing

a 40-yard dash in 20. Why do they do that? I tried to think about the reasoning for that. I really don't know. Like the honest answer is, I don't know why. other than maybe tradition? Well,

I think the actual answer is that like the scouts who, like, like, I mean, look, I'm talking, I don't know what I made names,

but Charlie Castellee is always the guy they cut two. Like, he's like hand-timing it. And I think the actual answer is like, he has been doing it for so long that the hand-time 40s are quicker because,

you know, human beings are not as responsive as lasers. So they want to be able to compare apples to apples to apples with like the hand time he had for like Joe Montana in like 1980 or whatever. Yeah. But the numbers are wrong. That's the whole reason.

Like, the hand-timed ones are always faster. The margin for error is seriously massive with hand-timing. Like, it's actually insane to think that, like, It's so dumb. Like, I don't know. You see all these scouts doing the hand-site. So that's my real takeaway. It's 2020.

No more hand-timing 2020. Yeah, that is absolutely probably one of the biggest, like, most absurd things about this week is, I mean, just think about, like, if you miss it, even by like a split second, it's like two tenths of a second. So like the next time everyone's like wire like all these prospects, you know, it's like a 50% hit rate in the first round. Just keep that one in mind. So anyway,

let's get to your actual nuance. But it's DK. Quarterbacks. Yeah, I mean, I think we have to start with Tua and Joe Burrow. The two biggest names, two biggest quarterbacks in this class, probably going to be two top quarterbacks taken. I'm almost positive.

They'll be the two top quarterbacks taken unless anything crazy happens in the next few weeks in terms of Tua's health. But the good news coming out of the combine, exactly what everyone was kind of hoping to find out was that Tua Tungavailoa, his medicals came back very positive. According to Rapsheet, Ian Rappaport, two days of medical testing,

he received overwhelmingly positive reports on his dislocated hip from teams who examined him. The MRIs were as clean as hoped, fractures healed, his hip fracture, and there's no loss of blood flow. So, in other words, there's no worry yet that you're having like a Bo Jackson type injury thing where the blood flow gets affected and you have to have a career ending type thing so you can't run on it anymore. So overall, to his health has looked good.

He seems to be on pace to a full recovery. He said when he was up on the podium that the plan was to get him clearance from his doctors on March 9th. So that's actually just around the corner and he'll be able to start like throwing and doing it all that. so we can expect him to probably do some stuff at his pro day. So that's really exciting. It honestly throws some uncertainty into the idea that Joe Burrow is the number one lock, the lock at number one. I still believe that Burrow will be number one.

But a fully healthy Tua changes, I think, the overall certainty that that's what's going to happen. Because he's such a good, good passer. If he's healthy, I think he could challenge for that spot. Well, first of all, to be clear, like, the medical stuff is actually the reason all the teams are here. I believe it's actually the reason the combine was even organized in the first place was we have to have our doctors look at these guys because we can't trust. You know, it's just a matter of trust. Well, it was a logistical thing, actually. Like when they first, and the reason it's called the combine is, and I can't remember the two names, but basically it was two different,

like two different groups were meeting with their prospects and then they combined them together into the combine. So. Oh, because it's combined. Yeah. Holy cow. I've never thought of that one So essentially there used to be two different groups that would meet together with all these prospects and eventually they combine them together. So but the basic idea is- I feel so dumb that I never figured out. That's why it was called the combine. Yeah, it's kind of funny. But yeah, it's the main idea is the logistical thing.

Like they don't want to have to fly guys like 300 plus players come to the combine. And teams would not want to have to fly these guys around and or go see them wherever they are all throughout, you know, the spring or, whatever all throughout the winter. It's just a logistical nightmare. So, like, bringing everyone to the same spot, that was the idea of the medical thing. So getting their medicals is the most important thing because they just want to know how healthy these guys are. And then while they're here, they want to be able to interview them.

And then they might as well confirm what they've seen on tape with some athletic testing to make sure there's no massive discrepancies. But for the most part, the medical is the most important thing. And Tua's medical was the most important medical of the entire process. So without exaggeration, Tua's hip examination was the biggest news of the entire. I mean, yeah. Like, if you're talking about, like, potential to be a top three pick, yeah, I think so. Because, I mean, like, a lot of the guys are the very, very top, bro didn't work out.

He didn't throw. He didn't run. So, you know, that was a little anticlimactic in that sense. And then Chase Young, same deal. He's just kind of here to hang out. I mean, obviously, he's going to be interviewing, but he's already put all the, everything he needed to put on tape. And he's a great, great player.

He's unquestionably going to be a top. I guess top four player because there could be three quarterbacks if you have tradeups. But he's the top non-quarterback in this class. I thought the beginning of the week was about Tua and Burrow. And then the latter half of the week was everyone remembering that there are quarterbacks other than Tua and Joe Burrow. So what non-Joe Burrow and Tua quarterbacks really made an impact this week? Yeah.

So I think Justin Herbert of Oregon, he seems to have quite a bit of buzz coming out of this week. and I think there's legitimate buzz that he could be a top five pick, the kind of guy that teams trade up for to get him. So number one, measured out at 6 foot 6, 236 pounds. That's like prototypical pocket passer size. He's also very athletic. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And defensive Robert Mays.

It's a little too tall. Robert Mays would not say prototypical. Okay, six foot four maybe would be prototypical. He's six foot six. So on the tall side. Also, quick tangent, I don't want to just like completely undo all of Maze is like, I swear to God, tall guys can't pass. But, like, John Gruden just answered this question on hard knocks about why tall guys can't do it.

Because he was chastising Mike Lennon, who's like 6-8. And, like, literally as an offhand tangent, he just looks at Glenn. And he's like, you can't stare down your receivers. You're so damn tall. The safety just sees where you're looking. And I was like, oh, that's why tall guys can't do it. It's really obvious who they're looking at. Is this why short quarterbacks are taking over the NFL?

Yes. Because the defense literally can't see them. I don't want to be like yes, but that's kind of interesting. So anyway, continue. Yeah, so getting back to Herbert, people were very, very impressed. There was, you know,

it was like hyped up all over Twitter and here at the Combine about his throwing at the, at the session on Thursday night. And so, yeah, people were very, very excited about Herbert. You know, he didn't, he didn't do anything that makes your lace, nothing like eye popping necessarily,

but he ran a 4-6-8. He jumped 35 and a half inches in the vert. good athleticism. He kind of already knew that. He's faster than Jarvis Landry's. Yeah, so there you go. I mean, he's obviously an athletic guy, and that's important in the NFL these days,

ability to move. We've seen that with Josh Allen. We've seen that with Daniel Jones, you know, the ability to kind of get around once the pocket breaks down and once protection breaks down, like if you're able to escape, that makes things much more difficult on the defense.

But it's a secondary skill. I guess my question with Herbert is, is his processing decision-making actually NFL level? there's like, one, there's just a threshold of like, can you survive in the NFL? But I think he's probably there. But is he a guy that you think actually can thrive at, like NFL game speeds? Like his processing when he's going through his reads and things like that is what you're asking.

I don't think that's a different question based on tape only. And I do believe that there's flashes of that when I watched his tape. We did not get that answer here at the combine. So like, not the passing against air with no shoulder pads against receivers. We didn't. People were. Yeah. people were very impressed with he kind of like just went for it he aired it out he was like being

aggressive the other thing is a lot of people think he's a little too passive and quiet like you know people want an alpha guy at a quarterback position in the NFL it's just kind of what coaches want it's a leader of the team it's the face of the team they want that type of guy and there's questions about whether he's like that whether he's outgoing enough he's a little bit introverted is what the sort of reporting the report is on him and i read a couple places that he was you know he's passing that test with flying colors like being out of outgoing and things like that. So that's something that Scouts look at.

It's kind of silly. Like we're both kind of like laughing about that. But it's something I think that scouts and coaches actually look for. So I think he passed that test too. I actually saw. Wait, you're saying he's introverted, but he passed the test.

What do you mean? Like he was, he's known as introverted, but he was extroverted. Like he was like, yeah, he was good here in Indianapolis. He was a leader.

He was talking to guys. He was pumping guys up, that kind of stuff. Like that's the kind of stuff they were looking for. Got some people pumped in jazz. I actually noticed he was doing that at Senior Bowl, too. So he's been coached up that this is a very important thing. And where do you think Herbert would fit?

Where? Because, I mean, the draft order, so you've obviously got the Bengals at one. And then you've got Washington at two and odds are it's Burrow and Chase Young. Right. The Giants are four. And then you've got quarterback alley, right? You've got the dolphins at five, charges at six. You've got, like, you've got like three teams in a row that seem to like really be in the quarterback market. And then so of the.

Of those three, like forget free agency for a second. Where do you think you would fit? I mean, I think the chargers make the most sense. The Panthers are reportedly keeping Cam and rolling with Cam, which I think is the right thing to do. And the dolphins, I think, are going to go for two. Though there have been reports during the week. And this is all, like, this happens every single year.

There's a report contradictory reports about literally everything. So there's been, there were reports that the dolphins are interested in Herbert, just as much as Tua, there's reports that the lions are interested in Herbert or Tua. The two parts of reports. One, buzz, because you mentioned buzz and players rising and falling. I think the biggest misconception is that players rise and fall on team boards when they kind of don't. Players are mostly set on...

Not to the extent that people think. It's more that the public perception is catching up to reality. So it's kind of like right now it's like the tail has been wagging the dog. And then now we're like, oh, wait, this is why. So like Jordan Love, for example, quarterback at Utah State. That's a guy who no one, I don't think many people in like media or insiders or whatever

realized how much higher he was on teams boards than until this week. So what did you think of Jordan Love? I mean, same deal. Like it's very difficult for, I believe it's difficult to kind of judge anything based on the combine throwing. Like you said, it's against air.

I think they should be accurate. I mean, it's inherently silly. Yeah, it's silly. Also, they don't just in terms of my honest takeaways, I'm supposed to have nuanced thoughts and all I can think about when they run the 40-yard dash is why aren't they wearing shoulder pads? Right.

I just, I can't believe they don't wear shoulder pads when they're running. Just really kind of... Or a helmet. Yeah. It's unbelievable, but sorry, continue. So, yeah, that, I mean, that's how I feel about that. Overall, though, like the impression, like, quote,

the buzz here is that people love him. Like, teams love Jordan love. And there's a lot of question marks because he had a bad season last year. He had 20 touchdown, 17 picks. He made a lot of bad decisions with where he was going with football. But I think overall, you know, number one, he kind of, he had a good answer to the question of, you know, if he's getting sick of talking about all his interceptions when he was up on the podium, he said, if I didn't want to talk about 17 picks, I shouldn't have thrown them.

So I think that's a pretty good, like, taking accountability for what happened. But there was a lot of circumstances around him last season. You know, he had a good, he had a very good 2018 season, had a lot of buzz coming into this season. and then he lost his coach. There was a whole bunch of turnover on the offense. It was like a whole new offense, essentially. And I think he tried to carry that team and did things. You know, he did things.

It's kind of like the Philip Rivers thing. Like he tried to carry the team and it just did not turn out well for him because he was trying to do too much. Maybe he'll fit in on the charges. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. So I think overall, you know, he had a very good week. I saw Ian Rafford again.

He said the love affair wasn't something I anticipated in terms of how much team seem to love love. ESPN's Lewis Riddick tweeted this the other day. He could go much higher than expected based on what I hear and see. And Todd McShay is a big believer in Jordan Love. He actually made a bet with Mel Kiper for five grand that love will go ahead of Justin Herbert. This was my favorite moment of the week. I'm not, I'm not messing around.

Dead serious, my favorite moment of this week. It didn't even happen like we're in Indianapolis right now. This didn't even happen like at a moment. I just saw it on television. Mel Kiper and Todd McShea argue, like, first of all, Mel Kiper and Todd McShea have just spent too much time together.

Like, they straight up are just like, because there's like, Is this what we're going to be like in like 15 years? I hope, but it's like, because here's like, there's like, debating, right? There's like Stephen A. Smith and Max Kellerman just go into a production meeting

and they're like, well, we need to be on opposite sides of that. So they just take opposite sides and then they argue to create controversy. Mel Kiper and Todd McShay don't do that. They come to genuinely different beliefs. They argue like they're like a married couple who's been fighting for like 20 minutes in the car on the way to the restaurant for like a double date.

And then they get out of the car and they have to put on a nice face, but they're not over it. So the argument bleeds into dinner. And it's really like, but instead of dinner, it's like live television. So they're sniping at each other. It's unbelievable.

Like, like, Todd McShay is like, Jordan loves great. He's going to be the third quarterback off the board instead of Justin Herbert. And Mel Kuiper is just disgusted. Just sneering. And he looks at him,

he's like, you're dreaming. You're dream. What is wrong? Like, it's so personal. Yeah. It's so joyous to just watch them.

But I actually thought it was representative of the larger thing. I was going to say that. It's like that's a microcosm for the draft, draft Twitter, draft everything. And I thought it was representative because two things. Like, I think there's a serious chance for the top eight picks are quarterbacks. So I think that that's worth remembering. Every year we kind of underestimate how many quarterbacks are going to go in the top eight or so because, oh, Jordan, love, fringe first rounder.

Well, there isn't really a fringe first round or quarterback when quarterbacks are as scarce as they are, especially when there's so many teams that need quarterbacks in the top half of the first round. So, first of all, just love McShea and Kuiper arguing in public. It's fantastic. And this is just the beginning of the whole quarterback conversation because it's been so dominated by Tu and Burrow that, okay, Herbert, love are in it. And then we didn't even get into, there's like the third tier of kind of like Jake Fromm, Jacob Eason, Jalen Hertz.

We have a lot of time to talk about that. Yeah, we didn't even talk about Jalen Hertz either. Who could. And again, like going back to the fantasy lens on this whole thing, you know, I didn't expect Daniel Jones to be a fantasy factor in year one. I didn't expect him to be a top 10 pick and then he was in both cases. So I think, you know, obviously there's a lot of excitement around Burrow, what he can do in year one, how he can change what we assume is going to be the Bengals offense and how he can elevate the guys around him in terms of fantasy.

I think we have to start thinking about what guys like Herbert and love and potentially Hertz could do. I don't think Hertz has a It's a longer shot for him to be a starter In like early on But I mean those two guys love And Herbert potentially could start early And be big fantasy factor So that that was kind of a takeaway coming out of this

This combine is that There's the the hype is definitely building on these quarterbacks And like you said there could be four in the top 10 Well speaking to hype So this is the deepest receiver class In summer between five and like 25 years Yeah There's a crazy amount of guys

And like receivers that are just in consideration for the first round, receivers in consideration for the first three rounds are just all, like, really the highest in years. So who were the dudes who stood out to you? So Henry Ruggs from Alabama, which this was not a surprise. He was kind of expected to be...

He wanted to break the 40-R-dash record. And he failed. So he's slow, right? That's the takeaway. Failed, yeah. He did not have the fastest run ever. He was a major failure running a 4-2740, which was best of the group.

Suck to suck, Henry Rugg. Yeah, so... But I think the, The thing actually that stood out to me about Henry Ruggs is not necessarily that he was almost as fast as he hoped to be. He was as fast as expected. He was, he absolutely were joking about the failure thing, by the way, to be perfectly clear. I was serious. He was very, very fast.

But the other thing I think that was impressive, impressive was that he also showed off a lot of explosive athleticism. He had a 42-inch vert, a 10-foot 11 broad jump. That was the, his vert actually was the highest, 42 inches was the highest of any. player to run sub 4-30 since combine data has been tracked. Can I give you a hot take? What's that? They need to replace the vert with just dunking on various high-dling basketball rooms. I love that idea.

Because there needs to just be like a pass-fail of can you dunk? Yeah. And then there just needs to be, okay, can you dunk on a 9-foot room, 10-foot rim, 11? You know what I mean? Just raise it so they can't dunk anymore. That should be the vert. Because if I hear a 42-inch vert, that means nothing to me. I have no idea what that means.

It's funny that you bring that up because I was going to actually throw out this hot take that it's not really hot, but it's a lukewarm take that I have way more faith in a player becoming a good NFL player if they can dunk. Oh, well, you know what? Let's just skip ahead to Chase Claypool then, Notre Dame, or 45 point per game tight end. Because you got to be able, or sorry, receiver that might go to tight end.

I think it sounds like he's going to stay a receiver, at least based on what we're hearing this week. You know, we talked about how he gained weight from the senior bowl to the combine. It sounds like maybe that was just he'd drink a whole bunch of water on the data that he weighed in. So we don't know if it's actually like this thing that he was planning or if

he just had a bunch of water weight when they wait in or what, but. I don't think you can drink nine pounds of water today. Probably not nine pounds. I think it was on purpose. I don't think he accidentally gave nine pounds for the NFL combine. But sort of the buzz coming out of the combine is teams are asking him to run kind of like a big

slot roll. And you could like it's splitting hairs because a lot of like move tight ends will be running routes out of the slot anyway so but how do you do in the 40 dash so he's claypool claypool blew up like he had one of the best combines in this whole group he had a 4 424 which is absurd for a guy who's 230 i think he's 35 238 pounds um 40.5 inch vert he had a 19 inch bench which is really good to 10 6 broad 80 80 inch wingspan like he's huge he's fast he's explosive he's a type of guy that can average 45 points a game and a high school cool. I mean, just, he was absolutely absurd. What does that kind of speed mean in the context of

his size? I mean, and people were saying he doesn't play to that speed, which I think is probably true. But that said, like, he looked really good at the Senior Bowl. So, and basically to give context to this whole thing, saw a tweet from, I forget who it was, but anyways, wide receivers, six foot four and two hundred and thirty-five pounds or, or heavier to run four-four-five or under in the Combine ever. There's two players. Chase Claypool, which happened this year, and Calvin Johnson. What?

So I'm not saying he's Calvin Johnson, but that's the type of athlete he is at his size. That gives you some context into... Calvin Johnson and Freakish numbers. Chase Claypool. Yeah, those are the two guys, six foot four, two hundred and thirty-five pounds are heavy. So obviously the six-foot-four thing is a little bit of like a cherry-picking stat. It probably should more just be his weight, but like that gives you an idea of the size weight speed

like freakiness that he hit he's absolute like but it's still height and weight it's not like they chose BMI index you know what I mean of like you know so anyways he had an awesome awesome combine he's probably going to end up being drafted earlier than a lot of people were thinking maybe in the third round or something like that and so

I think he comes out as a winner the other guy that was an absolutely massive winner actually there's two other guys that were massive massive winners in the combine testing portion here Denzel Mims from Baylor I think was kind of the star of the show on Thursday night. He had a 4-3-840.

He also ran a 6663-3 cone, which is absolutely ridiculous for a guy who's that tall. I think he's like 6'3 foot 3. In a sentence, what is the three-cone measure? His ability to change direction without gearing down. You know, your agility, your short area quickness, your ability to kind of like, I mean, like, the three-con to me is sort of like a stand-in for route running a little bit

because you're able to change direction really quickly without, like, losing speed. So, yeah, he had an amazing three cone, 38-inch vert, 10-11 broad. You know, he just, he absolutely blew it up. And I saw on playerprofiler.com, his closest physical athletic comp is none other than Chris Godwin, who just had his breakout season. The God himself. Yeah. So Mims, it was a huge, huge winner.

He's been a massive, massive winner in the whole post-season pre-draft process because he was absolutely the star of the senior bowl. He absolutely dominated the senior bowl. He was like making highlight real stuff every single day. So he is going to be a guy that comes out of the combine with, and I don't know if he will be a first rounder, but he's going to be getting some first round buzz, if that makes any sense. Like he's going to be a guy that people start putting in mocks in the first round.

For the rest of time, every time we mentioned Denzel Mims on this podcast, I would like to drop the, this is why I'm hot by Mims. Can we get that? like this is why I'm like, how do you feel about that? You're going to ask Craig about that one. I'm guessing he's probably going to nix him, but we'll see. No, no, no, Craig'll do it. Craig would never say no to that kind of request.

Okay, who? So one more. Who else with the combine for the receiver group testing period, Justin Jefferson of LSU. I think people were not expecting him to run fast. I saw some people speculating he could come out of the combine actually as a loser, like a guy who was like falling down boards. And I say that with fake quotation, like falling down boards.

And I saw, I think, I saw some speculation could be in the four, sixes, kind of like really hurt his stock because, you know, speed is important for his year. It's not the only thing, but it is overall important. He ran a 4-4-340, 37.5 inch for 10-6 broad. So he's very, very athletic. And I think overall, he just answered questions about his speed. He's definitely a speed. He's definitely got the speed he needs at that position. So, yeah, I think he was another guy that just, if he didn't solidify himself in the first round, he gives himself a great, great change.

to be a first round pick. So Jefferson comes out of this. He's, you know, he's just absolute freakish production this season. I think he had 18 touchdowns in that LSU offense. He's just very, very good out of the slot. And so I think he's the type of guy that, you know, if teams were wavering on him at the top of their board, I think they won't have to have that anymore. So he could be a first round pick. Which of this is for people who are, whether it's fantasy, but also just people like hoping that you can get a receiver, make an impact year one. Which of these guys do you think would most impact an offense as a rookie. Not just like they can become a number one receiver one day,

but would change an offense, not overnight, but like in their first season. You're talking about the guys we've just talked about? Any of them. So like I think Jerry Judy and C.D. Lamb stand above the rest. Judy from Alabama and Cid Lamb from Oklahoma. And, you know, not to get too deep into those guys, but both guys, I think, tested really well, like answered questions.

Both of them have speed. It's like now there's no question marks really about either of those guys. So I think those guys definitely answered the questions that they could come in and be high-impact players year one. I think those two guys are at the top of my list. And then after that, I would probably say Ruggs and Jefferson offer the ability to, and in very different ways. Like Ruggs is a field-stretching type guy. Jefferson is a guy that can make plays out of the slot in the red zone. So they both bring a little bit different dynamic, but I think both of those guys could also be pretty productive in year one.

Any of the receivers you want to hit? one other guy actually, I forgot. Donovan Peoples Jones of Michigan and this guy was a former five-star recruit who went to Michigan. There was very, very high expectations for him. It just never really panned out. The production never happened.

He only caught 34 passes for 438 yards and 6 touchdowns and 11 games last season. It was just never really worked out for him in Michigan at Michigan. And so he came in though with, like I remember, I was talking to some people before the combine. And he was getting some second round buzz despite the lack of those, like terrible production.

Not just terrible production. We met like Michigan fans were not satisfied with, like, with Donovan People Jones's production at Michigan. Like, it's actually almost oddly similar to like Rishon Gary on defense. It was like like a really high prospect for out of high school. And then a really talented high prospect entering the NFL.

But Michigan fans were like, Chase Winovich is the best player in a defense. Like, you know what I mean? After Pepper was like, Chase Winovich was the guy Michigan fans. Like, he's better than Rashad Gary. And then it's weirdly like People's Jones is the offensive version of Roshan Gary where it's like all these numbers are so impressive. But the people who like watched him are like so unimpressed. So how much does that? That's generalizing of course.

But yes, I agree. No, actually every single Michigan fans. No, I don't know. The Michigan fans that I know, mostly no, mostly Noah at the ringer. But I guess what I'm really asking is, how much do you value that in the evaluation process when you're looking at someone and you're trying to get tangibles? But do you care what fans who are obviously deeply biased, but also deeply invested, have to think about a player? Because that's actually in the team context. Yeah.

I was talking to some people about this, actually. I definitely trust like what a team's fans tell me. Dude, fans, no. Yeah. So, like, I was talking to Alex Kersner from SB Nation. and he was, he actually tweeted this today. He's like, so which player is it going to be, I think he was talking about Grant Deltit from LSU?

He's like, is this going to be the guy that all college football fans have to just tell NFL draft NICs like that he's good? There's like one guy every year that college football players, or college football fans just know is really good. And like for whatever reason, they're not as high on like draft people's boards or whatever. Well, the ultimate, the ultimate one for that. Not ultimate because that's last,

the number one won for that. It's Tyrone Matthew. Well, I was going to say Lamar Jackson. Oh. Like, college football fans were absolutely, absolutely knew Lamar Jackson was going to be a stud in the NFL. And there was a lot of NFL people were like, well, can you throw? You know what I mean? Like, so anyways, that's kind of getting off the point.

Yeah, off the point. But so you like People's Jones, even though. Well, I don't actually personally like him. The point is that he's probably going to get. That sounded like you did like up as a person, but you're saying you're in Europe. I watched his tape, it wasn't very impressive. However, and actually, we're bearing the lead here. We didn't actually even say what he did.

So he had a 44 and a half inch vert, which is the second most of all receivers since 2006. So he's an absolutely explosive, explosive guy. 4-4-8-and-the-40, 11-7 broad, which is, again, really, really, really good. And the other thing to keep in mind here, his tape wasn't good, but he did have, per PFF, the fourth-most uncatchable targets in the class.

So there was obviously... So Shea Patterson, the Michigan quarterback sucks. Yeah, there's obviously problems with the quarterback and the offense in general. So I think he is a sleeper. I'm not super high on him, but he's definitely a sleeper. He's a guy to keep in mind. Teams are probably going to reach on this guy a little bit based on his physical traits. And again, that's kind of like what happens at the combine.

You come out and these guys are just very, very fast, very explosive, you know, athletes. And I actually talked about this before. or teams like to keep an eye on and invest in former five-star recruits that didn't pan out in college because there's, you know, there's this thought that you can cultivate that talent. Well, not just cultivate the talent. Coaches believe the problem with every player is coached and that everyone can be coached and that other coaches weren't good enough. But, you know, this I am, which has led to my favorite battles, 19, which was Sean McVeigh,

taking on Blake Bordals because, you know, it's a coaching issue. and then John Gruden doubling down and being adding Nathan Peterman. Yeah. Coaching issue. But anyway, enough about People's Jones. Let's go on to other people. Running backs. Yeah.

So the running backs were fun again. And Jonathan Taylor, we came into the week thinking he. Running back from Wisconsin. Yeah, running back from Wisconsin who is potentially going to be a first round or potentially going to be the first running back off the board. Six most rushing arts in college football history. Yeah. I mean, he's just, again, he's, if you were building a running back in a lab,

like Jonathan Taylor is what it would look like. He's six foot. He's 228 pounds, I believe, like just made of stone. And he ran the 40 in 439. Like he's a former sprinter. And you watch like his start the way that he was able to get to top speed almost immediately. And just, you know, like lightning. And you see that in his game, actually.

Because a lot of times you don't see the guy's speed on tape. But I definitely think you see Jonathan Taylor's speed on tape because he's a home run hitting 3. right, like in the open field. And so, yeah, he hit 439 again in the 40, and he actually jumped 36 inches in the vert, which is another very good number for a guy his size. So there's two running backs to weigh 225 plus and hit a combine 40 under 445 since 2014, so over the last like seven years, six, seven years, Sequin Barclay and Jonathan Taylor. I've heard of him. So he's, Taylor is absolutely in the Saquan stratosphere as. an athlete, just to be clear.

So why did Sequin go number two and Jonathan Taylor? Like, are you telling me he's going to go in the top 20 or what? I think, I'm not saying they're the same prospect. I think Seacquan was a better prospect. Why? He, well, number one, I just think Seacquan's a little bit more physical. And because, like, Taylor is, is elusive. He's well-built. He's fast, all that stuff.

But I think Barclay is a little bit more physical as a running back. So I don't know if that really matters to teams. I just think we are starting to see sort of like the NFL teams realize that taking a running back in the top 10 is just not going to pay off maybe. But for whatever reason, there's not top 10 hype on Taylor. I think I would be surprised if Taylor went on the top 10. Okay. What other running backs did you end up liking? So another guy that actually might be the first running back off the board, Dandre Swift of Georgia.

I think there were some questions about his overall. Wait, the name is just on like a running back's name. naming Swift is unbelievable. Right. It's great. And he actually proved, you know, he lived up to that namesake,

448 in the 40, which is, I think, you know, there was some questions about his long speed, his overall explosiveness. Like, he's an all-around good running back,

but I think there were some questions, like, does this guy have enough speed? And he answered that 4-48 in the 40. Like, he looked great, 35 and a half-inchvert. So Swift definitely solidified himself as a top-tier athlete in addition to great tape.

So he's another guy. that could potentially be the first running back off the board. A couple different sleeper type guys, Cam Acres of Florida State. Another former five-star recruit, by the way, who ended up at Florida State, just ran behind a terrible offensive line. His whole career didn't have the production

that you'd hope from a five-star guy, but he had flashes where you're like, this guy is absolutely, you know, elite athlete. And he showed that again this week, 4-47 in the 40, 35-and-half-inch vert. He looked really, really quick and fast in the, in the drills. And then...

Wait, can I ask you a dumb question on that? Sure. How do you evaluate a running back who has great blocking who might go to the NFL where he might have worse blocking? Like, for example, Memphis. Who's the running back that had...

Darrell Henderson had like nine yards per carous. He had more yards before contact than like most... Like, yards before contact, which is roughly speaking, yards blocked for you. I mean, that's not exactly what it is, but he basically had more yards blocked for him

than most running backs in the country just had period. But how do you apply that to the league where you're not going to have great blocking dominance and the antithesis, like how do you evaluate a running back who is awful blocking like Camacres? How do you go about that? I think it's, I mean, it's not super easy,

but I do think you can look at a guy and see how he's able to create for himself, whether he's, you know, running through the tackles and able to plow through people, elude people in short areas. And you see that on Jonathan Taylor's tape. Like his Wisconsin blocking is just better

than what Cam Acres got at Florida State. Exactly. That's what I'm wondering. But you see him making guys miss on tape a lot. Like he has very good feet. You know, he's got these little subtle, almost like slalom like juke's where he's going through the, you know, through the defense and making guys miss,

destroying pursuit angles from guys trying to tackle him, that kind of thing. You know, it's a subjective thing, I think, a little bit. And like you said, you have to account for the blocking. But, I mean, I think both Taylor and Swift showed the ability to make guys miss be elusive. So that's very, very important, even though both of them probably had way better blocking than Campakers did. But I think Aker's is, he's probably a dark horse to, you know, be an early second round. I think he reminded me a little bit of Aaron Jones

in his explosiveness, his ability to hit the gas and just create explosive plays. So, you know, again, he didn't have good blocking at Florida State. So it was kind of, he flew under the radar a little bit. It was kind of tough to judge exactly what he is as a running back, but I think he has the potential to be like a star in the NFL. So he's another guy that I think really stood out, had a good combine.

And then A.J. Dillon of Boston College, I think comes in to the draft as like a very, very intriguing running back. Kind of in the Derek Henry mold. I don't think he's as good as Derek Henry, but he's huge. 247 pounds. He ran a 45340, which is absolutely hauling ass at that size. And he looks, I mean, he's just rocked up.

Like, he's a big guy. Rocked up? Yeah. I've never heard that in my life. What does rocked up mean? Absolutely ripped. Oh, ripped. Okay.

And 41-inch vert, best in the class for a six-foot plus. 247 pound guy 131 inch broad best in the class again so he's just not only is he huge and fast but he's very very explosive

with his lower body so you know he's not on Derek Henry's level in my opinion but he's also he's a back that I think in the right system

like a downhill system could do some damage in the NFL I could definitely see NFL teams like in this guy so he could be a fantasy factor

all these guys could be huge fantasy factors in year one he is a huge factor regardless of Like just say if the Titans took this guy and moved on from Henry, you know, for instance, there's plenty of options that could happen. But that, like, it's in the realm of possibility that he could just be like their immediate lead back. I want to get into a protracted debate about the value of Derek Henry relative to the draft based on what he's making as part of the cap.

Do you want to do that right now? No. I just, you know what I really want to do? I want to just take a moment to talk about Mackay Beckton, the largest person at the cost. Combine who ran a 5.1. Do you think he'll be a fantasy factor? Maybe they could just put him out of running back. Could, yes.

Like, could he play running back? I mean, the way he ran, it looked like it, honestly. It looked like it. Do you see his start in the 40s? Like the Ravens and Niners, who were the two teams that gave, like, you had the fastest average miles per hour crossing line of scrimmage. So he gets ahead of steam. Could he run for four yards of carry in the Niners?

That's my question for you. Or the Ravens. I don't know, but it, I'd love to see that. I think he probably could, like in a. very small sample size. I think we need to make tackles eligible passers. He's so athletic. He's, and he's huge. He's like 365 pounds.

And he can move. It's a pound for every day of the year. I mean, he is just, yeah, he was one of the most impressive guys. You know who else would love to see do stuff in offense is Tristan Wharfs from Iowa? absurdly athletic. 485 in the 40? That's faster than a lot of tight ends ran this year.

Put him at tight end, man. He would just run people over like gronk. So, you know, he's just, he, another guy that this is not fantasy related, but just absolutely like... I mean, it can be fantasy related. We got, you gotta know. Maybe he's like an emergency running back. I mean, what was the hockey team that put like

there's some Zamboni driver at goalie the other day? I missed that. Bikai Bekine's closer to running back than like, you know, that Zamboni driver would have been in theory. At least I would have thought so three weeks ago, but I don't know. Titans, can I just say I'm disappointed this year's class? Yeah, it's a very shallow,

underwhelming class. It's probably not going to have anybody in the top 50, I would guess. So, you know, I don't know if any of these guys are going to be fantasy relevant in the first season. A lot of even the top tier, like T.J. Hawkinson, like, eighth overall pick, wasn't very fantasy relevant after one. Titans really struggle. And then this isn't a good class.

So this is a great intro. You're going to have to have an absolutely perfect landing spot. So why should we care about? Who should we care about if there's anyone or should we care at all? Well, I'll just say this. Albert Oku Weibunum, which I'm sure I'm saying his name wrong. So I'm just going to call him Alberto of Oklahoma. He ran a 449, 40, which is really, really good for his size.

He was over 250 pounds. So I think he was the main standout in the testing portion of it. Obviously, you know, the tape matters. His tape was a little bit underwhelming this last season. But overall, like relative, especially to the rest of the class, he was by far the best athlete. So he's a guy to kind of keep in mind. And one other guy to kind of talk about here is a little bit of a follower in this group, was Jared Pinckney of Vanderbilt.

And he came in to the week for me as a little bit of a sleeper potential type guy, had a very good season in 2018. In fact, a lot of people were talking about him as a potential top three tight end of the 2018 class, but he ended up going back to school, just had a bad season. It didn't work out for him there. And then he ran a 4-9-6, almost five seconds flat, like just out of the realm.

Charlie Castley had him faster than that, but with the hand time. Oh, did he? No, I'm kidding. I'm just, I made it up. Okay. So anyways, that's just out of the realm of NFL athleticism. It's just not good. If he can improve that as pro day,

I think that will help him a lot. Get into like the 4-8s and he'll be okay. But at that time, he might go undrafted. So he's the kind of guy that didn't, he just didn't have a good day. We'll see how that translates to his pro day and everything. But you kind of take him off your fantasy radar going forward until he runs on anything like under 4-8, I think, at this point.

Yeah, there's some guys like flying under the radar. can just keep flying. I think that's what I've learned to the tight ends. They can continue to fly out of the radar. Don't worry about radaring the tight ends in the 2020 class. So yeah, those are kind of the skill position, standouts, risers and followers of the group. You know, again,

it doesn't, it's like the combine is not the be all end all of everything, but it does kind of give you an idea. I think like MIMS is the guy that was the most intriguing to me. Like he, he's the kind of guy that could have the Terry McLaren type rookie season and I wouldn't be surprised whatsoever. So like he's the kind of guy that I'm. So give me a theme

for the combine this year. What'd you learn? Give me a theme. Big idea. I think the biggest thing I noticed is the prime time testing is terrible and I hated it. It's such a cliche that media members like just bitch about everything. But it was just not, it was just not helpful to have everything going on. It ruined your life personally. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I also imagine. It didn't seem like any of, none of the teams or players liked it either. Well, the players, it must be annoying because it's like, it starts at, you know, prime times. It should know Monday night football, but like Monday into football notoriously or Sunday night of football.

It's like players have to sleep in because, you know, you can't, you're not trying to have your peak physical performance like 12 hours after you wake up. But these guys have to be doing interviews. They're doing stuff. They're doing meetings or teams. So it's like they, you know, they haven't been getting that much sleep. So like, you know, waking up six, seven, whatever time they have to wake up in the morning. And then you're running your 40-yard dash.

You're like nine o'clock at night. And it's like, that doesn't, that doesn't really make sense. Here's a legitimate crap I have with this. apart from the fact that it made our lives a little bit more of a hassle during the week is, like, part of the reason that you're doing the combine is to compare these guys to historically, like to 20 years of historical data to see where they stack up compared to... That's why we hand time.

God, yeah. And so, like, you know, it gives you a baseline, it gives you ability baseline to figure out if these guys have, you know, the speed and athleticism to play in the NFL to be a bit impact players in the end of the, NFL. And when you're doing that, you want to have as few, like, extenuating variables as possible to eliminate as many, as much error as possible. And then moving it to the time of day, you know, like we were talking about, like you're talking about, where these guys are doing it late in the day, it's completely different dynamic than the last 20 years of data. So, like, you're going against all this data that we have, like, stacked. And to me, it's just silly.

It's stupid. And the numbers actually showed in a lot of cases, like players were slower in multiple drills this season, like the overall class was slower. So I don't know if that means anything. The one thing that it could do is going forward, agents of big name players could just tell their guys to not test. And so like the NFL could have an issue with these like primetime things

because a lot of the top stars are just not testing at the Conway. So, yeah, in the 1980s, like, ESPN, like one of the co-founders of ESPN, Chet Simmons, approached Pete Roselle and the commissioner of the NFL and said, we want to put the draft on TV. And he's like, why would you want to do that? Now, it's like, Chris Berman,

who was an anchor at the time, explained it being like, people thought it was, like, the NFL draft was one step above reading the yellow pages for entertainment. And then 40 years later, the draft is such a behemoth. They're moving at city to city,

draw millions of visitors. Yeah. Vegas might have one of the biggest weekends just popular like traffic wise ever Nashville had one of the biggest last year that they now have the combine in prime time even though the athletic testing is a tertiary part

of what is ultimately a logistical medical conference for mass recruiting I mean it's probably not going to change like you know if there's an ability to drum up more interest like you're saying like it's going to stay but I do think that was a factor that teams will have to kind of keep in mind and players will have to keep in mind,

like it could change the, you know, the overall baseline numbers of everything because you're adding in that extra factor. Maybe that's why Henry Ruggs failed. It's too bad. All right. D.K., this was a pleasure and an honor, my man.

Yeah, we had a blast down here, Indy. It was a lot of fun, man. It was nice to just get away from Craig for a little bit, too. It was just really thrilling to just, you know, be free of him and his clutches.

So thank you to DK. Thank you for the space from Craig. Thank you to everyone for listening. Thank you to Indianapolis. You'll see you guys next week.