The Ringer NFL Show - NFL Draft Round 1 Reaction (Ep. 103)

Episode Date: April 28, 2017

The Ringer's Robert Mays, Mike Lombardi, and Kevin Clark huddle up to discuss their initial reactions to the Chicago Bears trading up for Mitchell Trubisky (01:00), the surprising Corey Davis pick (06:30), picks they loved (09:30), and great players left on the board (21:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Before we get started with today's show, I just want to congratulate the Bill Simmons podcast for winning the 2017 People's Voice and Webby Awards in the best sports podcast category. Thank you to everyone who supported us and voted. To the Ringer NFL show, my name is Robert Mays and I'm going through something right now. To help me are Kevin Clark and Mike Lombardi joining me from Los Angeles? Gentlemen, how are you doing tonight? We're going to talk this out, Robert. We're going to get you to a good place by the end of this pod. I really appreciate you guys being here for me.

a trying time. It means the world. And I don't know if I'd want anybody else to be my comfort than you guys. And I really do appreciate it. So here we go. The NFL draft happened today, at least the first round. And it took about a pick and a half for me to lose my mind. What happened at number one is what we all thought would happen.

And what happened at number two is, well, none of us thought would happen. I mean, is there any possible scenario we could have envisioned where the bears would give up three picks to move up one spot to draft Mitch, Trubisky. I'm not calling him Mitchell. I don't care. Mike, how shocked were you by this? I was really shocked because, you know, when they put all the money in Glennon, you figure, okay,

fine, maybe they'll take Nate Peterman in the second round or, you know, they'll fall in love with someone else and they'll try to restore their defense and try to get something better. But, you know, clearly, San Francisco was in the driver's seat. I mean, San Francisco take, call the benefit of the fact that Cleveland

love Trubisky, and maybe there's another team that love Trubisky as well, and that everybody was trying to utilize that San Francisco pick and John Lynch really ended up having just to hold an auction and he got the best of both worlds. He gets Solomon Thomas, and he only has to move down and collects picks from the Bears. It's just interesting how this is all going to play out.

I'm not in love with Trubisky. Kevin and I talked about it. It's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out. You sign Glenn into this deal. Now you draft Trubisky. You've gone from no quarterbacks to two quarterbacks, or maybe you still don't have any quarterbacks. Kevin, walk me through your reaction, please.

I'm assuming that you just felt bad for me, but also thought this was hilarious. That would be my assumption. John Lynch has been in the NFL for like 45 minutes as an executive when he already figured out how to fleece people. Yeah, it's incredible. This is a bad statement on the current crop of NFL general managers that Ryan Pace was just like, here's three picks to move up one spot.

I mean, I think it was an incredible job for them. Either they bluff their way into it or there were, legitimate offers for that pick. I don't know if we'll ever know the truth. Sometimes we never know the truth on this until there's a documentary made 20 years later. You know, for me, I just, I wouldn't do it if I'm the Bears. I mean, you know, we talked about it.

Maybe Ryan Pace gets a couple of years on his deal now because, you know, the rebuild starts as soon as Trubisky is picked, and now they get to build from there. But, I mean, for me, I just can't do it. You just can't do it. I'm not. I'm in disbelief of what they did. Mike, I want to ask you two kind of process questions.

One, when free agency really gets going in early March, especially the way it did this year was so close to the combine. As a team, do you have any idea what you're going to be trying to do at the top of the draft? Is there any version of the world where they already think we like the kid from North Carolina, and maybe we'll try to take him at three when they signed Glenn into the deal they did? Well, I think you try to marry both, okay? So I think you look at that. two things. You look at your free agency board, and your draft board is up. I mean, now you haven't

been to the combine, you haven't worked guys out, but you have grades on every player. So you know where you're thinking you're going. And if you think you like Trubisky, then you've got to ask yourself the question, do we sign Glennon and still try to draft Trubisky or do we just sign Glennon? And if we happen to fall in love with Trubisky, we take them. I think that's a little risky. I think the quarterback is one of those things you've got to have a specific plan for, because we are in a numerical business. So there's only so many reps you can give guys. And Trubisky is going need a lot of reps. And Glennon's going to need reps. So you're not developing two quarterbacks. So I don't know how this works out. Now, if they didn't pay Glennon all the money and say they just took a

flyer and get it, Glennon and paid them $4 million or $6 million, right? Then you say, okay, pretty smart. You know, they got to protect themselves and then they got a young quarterback. But they gave $15 million to Glennon. You know, they put chips to the middle of the table here. So they got to give Glennon a chance to earn what they've paid them. And I don't know how you do that when you draft a young quarterback, the world's most expensive mentor. It's unbelievable. It's not even just that they drafted Trubisky. I mean, that's one thing where I feel like there's no plan in place whatsoever.

But the fact that they gave up their third and fourth round picks this year, this is not a team that's won Mitchell Trubisky away from being contender. It's just everything about it drives me fucking insane. Oh, I'm sorry. It's just been a really rough hour. It's two hours or four hours. reporting that you got the milkshake? The Portillo's milkshake was incredible.

I have to describe this to you. It's a chocolate milkshake with chocolate cake in it. Oh, my. It is, it's all that I, it's the only thing that could have helped me in that moment. Did it help? Yes, it helped a little bit, but clearly I'm still pretty upset. You're going to have to wake up tomorrow. Exactly, right?

This is not going away. All right. And get another cheesecake. Yeah, it's right down the street, man. I can. This is not a Mitchell Trubisky Bears podcast, but I feel like, just kind of, kind of extending from that. What I found most interesting about the start of the draft was clearly what happened with the

quarterbacks. Overall, I feel like we had more offensive skill position players go in that top section of the draft that any of us ever would have thought. Three wide receivers off the board by nine, both running backs off the board by eight, and then the three quarterbacks by 12. Mike, which of the other two quarterback trades would you say surprised you more? Was it Kansas City coming up for Mahomes at 10 or was it the Texans' conference? all the way up to 12 for Watson.

You know, I think Andy Reid's coming all the way up and traded next year's one is pretty much a surprise. I know Houston traded next year's one, but Houston's team, you know, they needed a quarterback. Andy's got Alex Smith going, so I think that was. But I think Andy, look, they made no secret to this offseason about how much they wanted to improve the quarterback position in Kansas City. And I think they were determined to do it, and they went all the way up

and they got a deal. The pick that shocked me, though, is the Corey Davis pick at Tennessee at 5. I don't get that one there because, you know, I know Tennessee needs a receiver, but to me there's value with other players there that you could use. I love Adory Jackson. They picked at 18. But at five, I just thought that's a little rich for Corey Davis, especially since he's coming off the injury.

It's a receiver. You know, how many receivers have they drafted in the second round, whether it's Justin Hunter, whether it's, you know, the kid from Missouri, Dorelka, Beckham Green. I mean, it's like they've had so many of them. And yet, to me, I just didn't see that. pick. So that's that's kind of surprised me, and that's what set everything off. The quarterbacks and the receivers going early, really, what defines this draft. Yeah, it's kind of bizarre. I mean, when you think about, obviously, Jonathan Allen, there was some injury concerns. What happened

with Rubin Foster was the same way. But Marshall and Latimore, somebody a lot of people thought was one of the best three or four players in the draft. And if you're New Orleans sitting there at 11, you've got to be thrilled that he's just right there for you to be able to take the best corner in the draft when it was a huge need up and blinking lights for you. Yeah, and I think what happened, Robert, was everyone realized how deep this cornerback draft was. John Dorsey said it was the deepest class in 10 years. Basically, at one point, there was a thought there could be seven cornerbacks taken in the first round.

Look, I think people were sort of under the impression that you could get a first round cornerback talent tomorrow night or maybe even in the third round because there are so many of them. And so that's sort of why a lot of those guys dropped. And you say, okay, well, maybe Denver would rather have Garrett Bowles. because there's just not a lot of line and talent. It was a supply and demand thing that we saw on Ford on Thursday. Yeah, it's a supply and demand thing combined with all of these skill position players going early.

So when everything gets pushed back, plus you think there's some more around, then this is what we see. I mean, Mike, would you assume that the Corey Davis thing is that they wanted to trade back and they had some intel that those receivers were going to go a little earlier than they thought, so the run may start before their pick was going to happen if they did slide back a little bit? And my instincts tell me that they probably had, they wanted to trade back and nobody was willing to trade with them. Sure. You know, that's a long way to go for Kansas City to go up to get Mahomes at five. That's a long way for Houston to go to get Deshaun Watson at five.

So they were kind of in that no trade zone area. And, you know, and I think that nobody really wanted to go up to get anybody. And there was, like Kevin talked about, there was a lot of corners, so you're not trading up to get a corner because you feel like I'll get one of the guy, one of these three I'll probably get. So why trade up for it? And then the medical on some of these players really hurt. Like if Jonathan Allen's clean medically, the fifth pick probably, if he's on the board, is an attractive pick, right? But he wasn't. So you can't trade up to get him.

You can't trade up to get Foster. All of a sudden, you know, the medical took over. And so, you know, I think he got stuck having to make that pick. I don't think that was the plan because we had Schaefter reported it. Everybody's reported Tennessee was trying to trade out of there. That, to me, was what they wanted to do. I don't think they could do it. each of you Kevin I'll start with you was there a guy just

talent wise scheme wise fit wise that you love the pick just coming away from today saying I can imagine it from day one him being a plug and play guy and him really helping that team I think it's obvious and I talked to Stanford's office coordinator Mike bloomgren about this last week he mentioned Carolina as the dream destination for Christian McCaffrey and the reason he said that is because he's good enough in past protection that he can survive in that offense. But then if you just want to run McCaffrey into the slot, you know, pre-snap movement, you can do it. And at the floor for Christian McCaffrey this year is a good two-down back who can also be a great slot receiver on third down,

or, you know, basically whatever you want to do with him. You know, he has limitations, obviously. He's not going to be a great, you know, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, It's going to take him a lot of a little, sort of NFL-style pass protection, but he's decent enough. But I just think the floor for him is actually a lot higher than a lot of these guys taken in the top half of the first round. I think he's going to make that Carolina offense way better than people think. I think we could see the sort of Carolina offense we saw two years ago. Mike, you've talked about how you need to have a basketball team when it comes to your receiving core and your defensive backs.

You want diversified talent guys that move in different ways. And McCaffrey does that instantly for Carolina. it would seem, right? Right. No, and then when they spread the field, you know, they're going to have a lot of guys that can make some plays. If Jonathan Stort gives them that power back that they need to go along with McCaffrey, because they can line up two backs in the backfield and then slip them out and play them in the slot, there's a lot of versatility, and they're going to be in a lot of shotgun because that's what Cam likes to be in,

and Cam's effective in it. And McAfry is very good at running from those formations, and you can utilize his skills. I mean, McCaffrey may run the ball eight times a game, but he may catch 10 passes. So he's going to touch the ball 18 times. that doesn't count fourth down where he's going to make some play. So you've got a four-down player. The guy I thought was really a great pick for the team, and Tampa took no time to turn the card in, was OJ Howard.

To get him all the way down there at 19, you get a legitimate starting Y on the line, which are hard to find. Guys that can play on the line, can pass block, can run block, and then can get down the middle of the field. You get him at 19 in the draft. I think it's a great steal. That's what I would have said as well. It just feels like that's what they need desperately on that team.

they have amazing options on the outside. With Mike Evans and Deshaun Jackson, you have two guys that do different things but are just as dangerous as one the other. And O.J. Howard is now a middle of the field passing threat, which they haven't had for years there. They haven't had it while James was the quarterback, not a slot guy, not a tight end,

and he gives you that instantly. I love that one. And the other one that I can just imagine, just in my mind already, is Hassan Redick in Arizona. Yeah. Because you add that to Christian, or to Chandler Jones,

excuse me, as a pass rusher, you have Matthew, you have Daniel Bucanan. And what I'm thinking of when I think of Reddick is how they used Washington a couple years ago, just hammering those aid gaps on blitzes and having just that really twitchy athlete in the middle that also gives you some pass rush help. I just feel like it fits really well with what they like defensively. Yeah, I think Ridic was a top 10 player. I mean, Riddick or Corey Davis, for me, I would have taken him, Riddick or John Ross, I'm sure that Paul Gunther, the defense coordinator of the Cincinnati Bengals,

just saying, like, wait a minute, we just drafted a receiver. I need linebackers here. I need some defensive help. You know, I agree with you, Kevin, on that. Yeah, by the way, that Arizona defense has the chance to be really good this year. I think it comes down to, A, how good Reddick can be. Also, M.D.J., you know, obviously last year's first round pick, who was a massive disappointment last year,

and Bruce Arian was extremely public about how displeased he was with Mdice. I think those two guys are really capable if they take the next step of creating a Super Bowl contender in Arizona. I think he's really important because you need somebody to give you at least a version of the production they got from Cleas Campbell. Because he was so important to both their run defense and their pass rush overall as being somebody that could get after the quarterback inside. That's what they need in Beach A to be.

They can do that plus what Reddick could give them, maybe not every down. You know, they have Danzig, they have Buchanan. Maybe Redick is just a situational player in year one. They use them in certain packages, all of that stuff. suddenly becomes pretty interesting. They're a team that could seriously use a corner in round two, and if they do that and get an upgrade over Brandon Williams, it's a scary group. Yeah, I mean, the corner last year really was when you do the autopsy on their defense,

not having that corner solved and having to play Brandon Williams in the first game and getting beat, they never really recovered from that. They were a corner short last year, and it showed up all season, and I think they got to address that, and maybe they can get that in the second round. That's probably what we're talking about, Kevin, when you just talk about the depth. If you're looking at Redick and you think, ah, he's eight under board, he's nine on our board, we're 13, let's go get the talent. You assume that if you have that glaring eat a corner, this is the type of draft where you can get that guy tomorrow. Yeah, exactly.

I mean, this is, I wrote about it on Thursday at the Ringer. I mean, this is really the cornerback revolution that's starting now. I mean, the defensive players all over the board, whether they're linebackers, whether the defensive tackles, whether the defensive backs, the best athletes are now choosing defense. to see that. I don't think it was a coincidence that so many, I think seven of the top 10 picks were offensive players, skill players. I think that's because there's actually starting to be a shortage of those players because they're going where the money is. There are too many in the spread, talented wide receivers. There are a lot of quarterbacks. You throw the ball over the place. There's a lot of offensive linemen. I mean, nowadays, the best athletes are

choosing defense because financially that's the best way to go and are starting to see that in the draft. And that's why there's so much depth. Yeah, Mike Williams going at 7. I also thought was interesting. It's kind of a luxury pick for San Diego. They don't necessarily need another receiver, but that offense has a chance to be pretty dang good as a passing group with him. And then it seems like there were some others that were just luxury picks.

Derek Barnett is a luxury pick. You know, you have, Everton Ingram in New York suddenly makes that receiving group pretty fascinating. If you think about him, Beckham, Brandon Marshall and Sterling Shepard, we're cooking now. I mean, that is a really terrifying group. I just don't know how you get him on the field all at the same time. Because if you don't think Ingram is a true tight end, is that the concern?

Yeah, I think he's a big inside slot receiver. So he's 2.34. You're not going to put him on the line and play them at why. Now, what it could mean is it could mean they're going to play some more 12 personnel. They're going to be more in two tight ends. But now Shepard's sitting down. Now you're going to sit one of those receivers down. And I think that maybe they'll start to do that.

I mean, Ingram's a really good player. I just didn't get the fit here. I didn't really understand it because, he's a big slot receiver, and I think Shepard's a really good player. And I think that with Brandon Marshall, and then, of course, you've got Beckham, you know, there's no way you can put,

then you're in four receivers, basically. And then now all of a sudden, Kevin and I talked about this, Eric Flowers isn't getting, nobody's helping him on the edge. Yeah, that's a good point. Spoiler alert, Eric Flowers needs help on the edge. Yeah, I mean, so. More help for Eric.

I mean, they have weapons in New York, but the problem's still going to come down to blocking. And if they can't get the defense to count the five Mississippi, it's going to be hard to get the ball to any of those guys. Yeah, absolutely. You've seen teams do that before, but most of those teams don't have a tackle that's such a liability. You think about the offense that the Jets ran a couple years ago, where it was more or less not a single tight end. I mean, they used four receivers, even if the fourth guy was technically a tight end.

And that offense just doesn't, isn't exactly what New York wants to do. And it's probably what, not something they should do when you consider how much reliability flowers is. Yeah. It's, it was a, there were a few of those, but that was probably the biggest headst scratcher. I mean, because I really thought that the Giants could have been a Super Bowl contender next year if they made the right pick there. I mean, the problem is, especially since the linemen slipped, the Giants were having an opportunity. Obviously, they didn't like Cam Robinson. You know, they had a chance to get a lineman, and they chose, they didn't want, they didn't want to get one

in free agency, and they didn't get one, and they're telling DJ Flueger. But, I mean, the reality is, is they could have repaired that offensive line, and they chose not to. It's not going to happen for them in the second round. I could tell you that. Why do you say that? There's just not a lot depth in this offensive line. I mean, if they take it offensive line in the second round, perhaps he'll have the red shirt. Now, there's a couple inside players, and I think maybe they could get some of those guys, but it's really not a deep draft in the offensive line. So, and look, I'm all for picking the best player. I just, this move, if you told me the cheesecake factory menu with McAdoo is going to expand and change formations, and they're going to be,

you know, they're going to line up a tight end at Y, and Ingram's going to be the move guy, okay, I get, I get that, and then you become the Patriots a little bit, but I just don't see Ingram be in the tight end with the other three receivers in 11 personnel. Yeah, you have to lean on him as a blocker. It becomes problematic. Going through the next two picks, I feel like in a way, they were some of the most surprising ones of the draft. Gary and Conlin going at 24 when you consider the rape allegations from earlier this week, just the timeline of it all. Yeah, you know, I mean, you've got to be right.

You've got to be perfect with the call. And I think, you know, there wasn't a lot of time to be right and be perfect with the call. So there's a risk here. Yeah, absolutely. And then Kevin, I would say that looking at what happened next at 25 with Peppers, the Browns had your draft, Kevin Clark. Did you see what? They took some jumpers. Did you see what Hugh Jackson said about Peppers on offense?

I did not. He said there is no question they're going to let him play offense. I think he's a running back. So I think he's a runner. I don't think he's a defensive player. Well, he's going to start at safety and obviously return kicks. But you think eventually he's going to end up at a running back. Yeah, because I think that's where he's best.

with the ball in his hand. If you watched him play safety, if you watch the Michigan workout, he couldn't make a play on the ball in the middle of the field. It was embarrassing. And he's not great in the box. I mean, that's where people, well, you know, he did this. He wasn't the adjustment backer. So if he's on the field, he's going to have some liability when he plays in the box.

But with the ball in his hands, as a runner and as a specialist, I think he'll gravitate towards that. I think as a returner, no question. He's got talent to do that. But the problem was he's, and I've said this many times, he's like the guy that buys the expensive watch, and then every time he wants to see what time it is,

he looks at his phone, you know, because he's kind of an accessory item, you know, and so you have them, and to me, the only way you can get to magnify the true ability out of them is to use them on offense, and I think that's where he'll success. I swear to God, I had that watch phone thing going on my life,

and then I just lost the watch. I mean, I literally lost it. I don't know where it is. Well, you know, when you buy an expensive watch, you know, you're just wearing it. It's an accessory thing. And that, to me, is, See, that's the debate. Everybody has a debate. You like Peppers. I don't see him as a safety. One interception, 11 passes broken up in his career. I don't see the production. And he's going to get matched up on some people that he's going to have to cover, especially, and you can't hide him in a box. You can't hide the guy.

I think if you're going to make him cover and put him in a very rigid system of defense, I think he's going to fail. I think it's more of a you draft him. And if you can't figure out on a play-by-play basis, maybe what you can do with him creatively, I think that's a problem with the team. I think it's just, I think Peppers can fit somewhere. Even if it's, like you said, three carries a game is running back and get them open in space. You know, play him at linebacker on third down in certain situations. Play them in safety. Play them as a slot corner. I just think creatively you just need that sort of positional flexibility. I think he's an asset.

I maybe would have waited a couple rounds, excuse me, one round and just taking them in the second round. But I don't blame the Browns were taking them here. I mean, when you look at what the Browns added, what they really did was just add three Uber athletes. Yeah. And the three guys that just move around absurdly well. And, you know, they need good players. And Kevin, I know you love the idea of finding good players by finding the best

athletes and figuring it out later. That's what the Seahawks do. I mean, it's what a couple of teams have done recently. And it seems to work out just fine. So, you know, three first round picks and a single drafts just kind of crazy. To reveal that I was drafting for the Browns tonight. No, it's not a bad time. My guys.

All of my guys went there. It was going to come out eventually anyway. All right. Before we get out of here, Mike, who are you most looking forward to tomorrow? Who do you find most intriguing about where he's going to go, where he might land? You know, I think Cam Robbins is in the offensive alignment. I think it's going to be interesting to see where he goes. I think that because it's such a bad offensive line draft,

it'll be fascinating to see how that all plays out. I think the corner situation, I think that certainly is going to play here. And then the Mr. McDowell, the Michigan State Defense Alignment, I think there's another guy that I think he's, you know, people talked about. him maybe at the bottom of the first round. So there's a, I mean, look, it's one thing about this draft. There's a lot of players that are good. It was like a almost like a second round draft all the way through it.

Yeah. I really hope some of those corners fall a little bit. Because if that's the one thing that can make me feel a little bit better about the Bears Hall is if they get a starting corner in tomorrow somehow. They will be picking for the rest of the draft, so it's all I have to look forward to. Here's what I think. I think we're going to have a Zeke Elliott. And obviously the Jaguars are not going to make the playoffs next year.

But I think there's going to be a Zeke Elliott, Dalvin Cook thing going on next year where, you know, Dalvin Cook is going to be the Jordan Howard. It's been the second round pick. He's going to be just as good. But I think that people, and there's going to be a debate for years to come. Do you pass on the guy in the top five and wait for the second round? I think Dalvin Cook is going to be a great, great value pick for whoever gets him tomorrow. I wrote about this this week. And I wrote about it today, actually, just the idea of what you need out of a running back to draft him in the top 10. And if you're redrafting the 2007 draft, you take Adrian Peterson in the top five. the same way that a team just did with the check with Leonard Frenet. But you need him to be Adrian Peterson for it to be worth it. And that bar is so incredibly hard to clear that, who knows?

I don't know if he's going to get there, but if he does, that's the only way that you draft him as high as you did, especially with the other guys that were on the board. Well, he may not get there with the ground game, but he could get there in the passing game. I think his passing game skills have to come out to make him worthy to be the fourth pick overall. I think Peterson was so dominant with the ball in his hand as a runner. and back when he was picked, there was shotgun,

but it wasn't like the way we are now. But now everything's in shotgun. So, Furnett's going to have to prove, A, he can run from shotgun, and B, he can help in the passing game, because if he can get out there in space against some of those little defensive backs, he'll be dynamic.

I think he's underrated as a pass catcher. The way they used him at LSU, I thought he looked competent enough, and there's really no way to know in that offense whether the guy is being held. It was a 9-on-7 offense. I mean, they must have just eliminated they should have played the game from the hash marks in.

The state of LSU football. It's always great. All right, guys. I think that's all we got. Really appreciate you helping me through this. I'm forever indebted to you. No, not even a little bit. I don't even feel almost a little bit better.

What was the reaction in Chicago with this? Oh, my phone melted. I'm not kidding. I got 7,000 text messages in like a 30-second period. There was a liner on the block for the cake shakes. There was a lot of WTFs. There was a lot of what the hell. There was a lot of just, it was awful.

And I'm not surprised and I don't blame people. It's not as if I think Mitchell Trubisky is going to be a bad NFL quarterback. I don't know the answer to that. It's that when your process is terrible, it doesn't matter even if the results end up being okay. It's still frustrating as we move through it. And the process over the last three months has been indefensible in my mind. That's where I stand. Well, that's a good way to end the night then.

All right, guys. Thank you very much. We'll be back tomorrow night for a little bit more of this. And please go read all of the reactions we're going to have on the ringer tomorrow. You know, read some of the stuff we wrote this week. Kevin wrote about the corners. Danny's written about all the top players in the draft. I wrote a profile about T.J. Watt this week.

We have a ton of good stuff. Please go check it out. And as always, we really appreciate guys listening.