The Ringer NFL Show - NFL Draft Round 1 Recap | Dual Threat

Episode Date: April 26, 2024

Nora and Steven are joined by Sheil Kapadia to discuss the biggest story lines after the first round of the draft, starting with the six quarterbacks who were taken in the first round. They specifically discuss Michael Penix Jr. to the Falcons at pick no. 8 and Bo Nix to the Broncos at pick no. 12. Then they run through one winner and one loser each, including the Giants, Jaguars, Bills, and more (41:38). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Guest: Sheil Kapadia Producer: Isaiah Blakely Social: Eduardo Ocampo Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Did Don Draper really buy the world of Coke? Did Tony Soprano really die? Or just order more onion rings? The finalees of our favorite shows can make us argue, make us cry, and make us crazy. From Spotify and the Ringer, I'm Andy Greenwald, and this is Stick the Landing, a new podcast where we'll be telling the story of modern TV backwards, one fade out at a time. Find Stick the Landing on Wednesdays on the prestige TV feed, on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to dual threat on the Ringer NFL show feed. It is draft night one.

The first round has come to an end. I'm Nora Pinciotti. And I am here with a very special draft night crew. Stephen Ruiz is here. Stephen, happy draft. Thank you. And we've got a bad draft. I didn't want to hear of a bad draft.

You didn't have a good time. She was ready. I was ready. I, we were talking. Everyone is for the content now these days. This was a terrible content draft. Not enough trades. Not enough.

There were some head scratching picks, but not enough picks where we could all just latch on and make fun of a team outside of it. Okay. I want to argue with you because I think there's like an unbelievably easy answer to which team has presented itself for mockery in this first round. Outside of a lay. I've got to introduce Sheal first. Shil Kabatia here as well.

Sheal, do you think that teams embarrass themselves? in the first round? I'm always for more. I don't want teams to get smarter. I don't want teams to make good decisions. I want teams to make terrible decisions so that we can rip that. Now, I have a feeling that throughout the course of this discussion, we're going to get to enough of those teams.

But yes, I would say through the first, what, six picks. I'm like, come on. Someone trade out of here. Let's get some trades going. But then it did pick up around, oh, I don't know, let's say pick number eight. Maybe the action started picking up. Right around there. Somewhere around there things seemed to take a turn.

Yeah. So the big story from the first round is that six quarterbacks were taken. And not only the number, but the fact that there were two real shockers in there, the first of which and the more shocking of the two was Michael Panics going to the Falcons at number eight overall. I mean, Stephen, can you just, like, paint a picture for me of learning that the Falcons were making this pick, reacting to it, trying to process what the thinking behind the selection is and just what this means for Atlanta. I mean, it really felt like the 28 to 3 game all over again, but in, like, newsbreaking form. Like, the Falcons were in a great spot. Seven offensive players off the board to start the draft. They needed a defensive player.

They had their pick of the board, any defensive prospect they wanted. This is a team that's gone offense with multiple high first round picks in a row, dating back several drafts. Like, they have their pick of the litter on defense. Just guaranteed Kirk Cousins $100 million, an old injured quarterback, just gave them $100 million. And what did they do? They drafted an old injured prospect to replace them with. Before Kirk Cousins ever played a game, and apparently, according to multiple reports,

they did not inform Kirk Cousins. They were drafting a quarterback until the pick happened or until they were on the clock. So, I mean, it's hard to pick out just one loser in this situation because I feel like everyone's a loser. I feel like Michael Pennix is losing it in a way by getting a delayed start to his development. He's not going to get live reps. I think Kirk Cousins is obviously a loser because I think he was sold a situation where they were going to try to win now.

And this is not a win now move. I don't know what type of move it is. It's a win never move. But it's definitely not a win. now move. And then the Falcons like, I don't, what's, what's the vision? What's the timeline? What are you guys trying to do? Are you trying to win now? Are you trying to win in four years? I don't understand this move at all. Yeah. I mean, Shield, do you have a, what do you think the plan is here? Because I, I guess I think if you guarantee Kurt Cousins 90 million dollars over the next two years, the presumption is

that if he is healthy, he is starting those two years. That does imply that. That does imply that. that that Michael Peddick at the earliest would become the starter when he's 26 years old, which is almost unheard of. Brandon We didn't territory we're getting into right back in the day for the, the old heads out there. Yeah. I, all right. So the basic premise is exactly what you guys are laying out.

Kirk Cousin, you just signed Kirk Cousins four years, $180 million, guaranteed. $90 million. He, like, he is your quarterback for the next two seasons, unless you're willing to do something just completely nuts. Like, if you want to trade him after next season, you just, you just paid him like over $62 million for one season of work, which is typically not what you want to do in the NFL. So, yes, I am absolutely with you. Now, if I'm putting on my Terry Fontenow, he had a nice suit on.

If I'm, you know, hey, Arthur, come over here. Let me explain to you what we're doing. him. I guess what I would say is Kurt Cousins is 36. Okay, he's coming off in Achilles injury. And hey, hey, Arthur Blank, you know, like, remember that Arthur Smith guy? He wouldn't let me draft a quarterback. And so you just had to watch Taylor Heinecke and Desmond Ritter last year. We don't want to put ourselves in that situation. When you have an opportunity to pounce on a quarterback you like, you have to take it. Just look at the Packers with Aaron Rogers. They knew they weren't playing Jordan Love right away, but now look at it.

They're all set up with Jordan Love. Look at the Eagles. They paid Carson Wentz even more than we're paying Kirk Cousins. I don't know if that's actually true or not. I don't think it is. But anyway, they paid Carson. That's a lot of money. They drafted Jalen Hertz in the second round.

Inflation, you know, the cap spiked all that. Right, right. Okay. Inflation. Yeah. So they take Jalen Hertz in the second round. Howie Roseman gets ripped. And now look at it.

Jail and Hertz took them to the Super Bowl. And they've got their young quarterback. So we can't pass up this opportunity right now. So yes, is Pennick's going to have to sit a couple of years? Sure. But hey, backup quarterback's important. So we have our backup quarterback, a guy who can play right away. And then after two seasons, we have a good two seasons with Kirk Cousins.

We move on from him. Now we've still got two years of Michael Pennix on a rookie contract plus the fifth year option, plus the franchise tag. We don't have to worry about quarterback for the next six to seven years. All right. Did I sell you, Mr. and Mrs. Arthur Blank? No, no. Give us the real. Give us the real tape. Sparkling opportunity to draft a 24-year-old who's had four season-ending injuries.

He's only 12 years younger than Kirk Cousins. He's not even that much younger than Kirk Cousins. First of all, 12 years is like, I don't think that, I don't think that point landed the way that you wanted it to. He was in kindergarten when Kirk Cousins, they were in school together. They were both riding the bus. at the same time. People have been doing that, that thing with Bonix and Zach Wilson, now both being on the Broncos.

I don't know if it lands with Kirk Cousins is only 12 years older. I'm just saying it's not that long. It's not that big of a gap. And we, Kirk Cousins has been in our life for way too long. Yeah, it's, I mean, that's true. If there was, if this was like a awesome prospect without the injury stuff, without the age stuff, and it was just like too good to pass up, then maybe you can talk yourself into it. But it's like the whole point, like I will defend almost any team.

And I'm sure we'll get to some of them here and you guys will disagree. I can defend almost any team that takes a swing on a quarterback in the first round if you don't have a quarterback. Because like even if the percentage of hitting is very low, if you do hit, it's just such an advantage. You're filling a whole the cost. We all know all the stuff about quarterback in a rookie contract. The problem here is. I tend to think similarly. and definitely agree with that.

Yeah, but the problem here is like, you're guaranteed, you're not getting that benefit until you're going to be in year three, guaranteed until you even see that benefit. So now you're paying a backup quarterback. Like, this is good backup quarterback money. When you take a guy with the eighth pick, you're actually paying like top of the market for a backup quarterback. So yeah, an absurd decision.

Pick a lane. I'm fine. Sometimes you got to think short term and long term. But you just signed a guy who's 36 years old because you want to make a run now, even if the ceiling is low. You want to be a playoff team. Like Stephen, you were saying, yeah, they could have just taken the best defensive player.

There was almost no wrong answer here. They could have taken Roma, didn't say, and we would have been like, okay, you know, probably would have gone defense. But hey, build the supporting cast around Kirk Cous. They could have gone offensive line, and we've been like, you know, I don't know if they needed to do that.

But hey, you got to protect the old, like we could have talked to ourselves to almost any other pick, except for this one. The only worst pick would have been Bo Nix. I was thinking about like when the last draft pick that felt this out of left field and this wacky was. I mean, you know, like the Broncos taking Tim Tebow was the kind of thing that I came up with. This felt like something in terms of draft surprises that's relatively uncommon in the sense that Pettick's going in this draft range to any team to a team. to a team that we knew wanted a quarterback,

in and of itself would have been one of the bigger surprises of the first round. The fact that it's to the Falcons, one of the teams that's made the biggest investment at the position this entire offseason, it just, I commend you, Sheal, for trying to wrap your mind around it.

And I can see you filling Terry Fontenow's shoes, which we saw on video, him talking to Arthur Blank in the draft room. And it looks like he's doing some real convincing there. looks like he's trying to really make an explanation for just what happened. Because did you forget? Did you forget you had a quarterback? It doesn't, there's no way to make this make logical sense.

But I guess that's the Falcons. And we'll see how it pans out. Like you're right to point out that quarterback, the nature of quarterback is just like, if he's good. And I suppose one advantage is he's probably. not going to get hurt for the next couple of years. Then all's well that ends well.

But it's shocking just from the player and draft range perspective. It's additionally shocking from the team perspective. And then you get into the fact that they've created at least a little bit of tension in their locker room.

I mean, Stephen, what was your take on the Kirk Cousins didn't get a call until Atlanta was on the clock situation. I mean, I was shocked. I feel like you have to prep your quarterback for that possibility. There's no way that this wasn't a possibility that was on the table going into draft day.

And I don't know how you don't call up her cousins. I'm unwilling to say there was no way. If there was, it makes more sense than they're not. Fell out of a coconut tree franchise. Maybe in sports. But in the other layer to this, it's not just that he's 24. and he has knee problems, not just that they signed Kirk Cousins. It's like in a vacuum drafting a quarterback to not play for the next couple of years.

It's just a bad plan. Like, I know it worked with Jordan Love. But that was one scenario where it worked. And Jordan Love, like, think about what Jordan Love looked like for the first half of the season compared to what he looked like for the second half of the season. That's the power of playing time. Right. That's the power of live reps that Michael Pennix is not going to get if everything goes

according to plan. And then when you think about his weaknesses on the field, He's not great in the pocket, like navigating pressure in the pocket. He's not great at working over the middle of the field. Those are things that you have to play to get better at. Those are like veteran quarterback things. If he's not seeing the field and he's only playing in preseason, he's getting second team reps in practice,

like where does the improvement come from? And then, like, let's say he does get to year three and then he finally gets to play. Like, you have to make a decision on a quarterback in year three. They're going to have to make that decision right away. And they're not even to know if he's bad or good or not. And this Kirk Cousin deal could be a three-year deal. deal. There's a possibility that they have to decide on his fifth year option. The two years is the minimum, basically.

Without seeing him play one snap of regular season football, that's a terrible spot to be in. They're in a bad, this doesn't help them now, and it might create a problem down the road. Like, I don't think you can hand out draft grades on draft night. Like, I don't think they're very useful, but like an F. This is an F. And I don't see any way of recovering this unless Pennix is just like a star. Yeah, like you said, if we say the best case scenario is Jordan Love, that means you might be getting a good quarterback in the second half of the third year of his rookie contract. And this was the eighth pick. Jordan Love was like in the 20s, right? I think Jordan Love got taken.

So this is the eighth overall pick. Like that is a premium position spot. And Nora, you made a good point. Like if Kirk Cousins plays well the next two seasons and they go to the playoffs, you're probably not moving on from Kurt Cousins. And now you just like this guy's just a backup for his third year on a. on the rookie contract. So it's funny, you mentioned the thing about like, well, did they just decide spur of the moment? I hadn't thought about it until you mentioned that. Like, they had to go into the night knowing they're getting Michael Penix as their pick. Like there was no, almost no scenario where Michael Pennix was going in the top seven of the draft.

He wasn't going to be off the board. Right. He wasn't going to be off the board. So it was like, I mean, unless there was a, I don't know, maybe there was another. I can't imagine there was another player that like they thought like, like Joe Alt, Well, we're going to take him. I can't imagine they're going to take him over Michael Pennings Jr. So it is just kind of an overall mind-boggling decision.

You could even make the case. Like if they liked him that much, could you have moved back a little? I don't know. They violated one of my big rules of the offseason for NFL teams, which is do not fall in love. When you fall in love and you're just like, we got it. We love this guy. We got to get this guy. He's going to change everything.

We can't pass on this guy. He's too good. It really feels like that's all that happened. And like Fontenot, Rahe Morris, I don't know, they bet him combine official visit, whatever it was. And they're just like, this guy's amazing. We have to have. We can't pass on him. And now here you are.

So yeah, it does not make sense. By the way, one more thing before we move on. Jordan Love is only five months older than Michael Pennix, by the way. Jeez. It's also interesting to me that Michael Pennick strikes me as a pretty different player from Kirk Cousins. Stylistically. I mean, Stephen, you talked about, you know, the middle of the field not being the strength. Obviously, that's a place where Kirk Cousin sort of does a lot of his work.

It just, again, every way you twist this and try to see the vision, I think it just gets, it gets muddier. Which probably means that that Shield's hitting it right on the nose and that the simplest way to explain this is just they fell in love. And it's a tale as old as time, but it usually doesn't end well. But best of luck to Michael Panics in the Balkans. Hold on, can I give a settle down to Kirk Cousins though, by the way. I know you said you have to tell Chris, settle down, Kirk. You're still going to be the starter for two years.

You've made $281 million. You just got $90 million guaranteed. You're 36 coming off in Achilles. Your life is fine. You're going to be okay, Kirk cousins. I don't need seven stories about how, oh my gosh. Kirk's night got ruined because they drafted a quarterback. Relax, Kirk.

It's going to be okay. Okay. I mean, give me a break with that. You should have led with that. That was the best take. He was, he seemed upset. I mean, we did see a lot of those stories. There was a lot. I got to say, as you said, there is, and I know I was joking about them, not knowing what they were doing. But there's no way that you go in and just like, because circumstances arise end up drafting Michael Pennock with eight overall. You knew you were going to do that. Call the man in the afternoon. day before. You know, make them feel good. This is one of my hobby horses. This is that like one of the most neglected parts of NFL team operations. Just like try to make the principals in your organization feel good.

And like you care about them. He just, he's moving, you know. Kids are starting in new schools. Wants to feel like he's a part of the operation. Give him a call. Just say, Kirk, how's it going? You in the minivan? This is a good time to talk.

We're thinking about taking my. Michael Penix. It's not that hard. Hold on. You were on speaker. Hold on. Let me take you off speaker. Yeah.

He's in the car with his kids. Dad, what? They're taking who? Maybe that's what happened. Maybe they did call. But he was busy. He was distracted. That's right.

All right. So the first, the first big surprise was Michael Pennox to Atlanta, of course. J.J. McCarthy went 10th. to the Vikings who only had to trade up one spot to get him. That was relatively expected. So let's go to Bo Nix, Gordon, the Broncos at 12 because that was the other surprise. Because this happened, Bonix ended up being the highest QB6 ever to go in the draft. It was the highest since Dan Marino was the sixth quarterback taken in 1983, but he went 27th overall.

So this was the point at which we knew that this draft was just sort of quarterback crazy in a way that that was not expected going in. I want to talk about the fit with the Broncos and what Sean Payton's doing and how they ended up with Nix. But I'm curious, Stephen, as the quarterback guru that you are, if you took this as a real just this number of quarterbacks going this early. in the first round as a sentiment of just like abject fear of the 2025 class because the league seems to be saying that they are just not interested in those guys. I mean, I would guess so, but I don't see how like Bo Nix is a prospect that doesn't scare you if that's the case. Like there are prospects that are just as good as Bo Nix in every class as evidenced by there

being a Bo Nix in this class because we didn't expect Bo Nix to be a prospect at all in this draft. And now he's he's drafting the top 12. I think it just shows that this league has taken the approach that I think analytics has champion, which is just throwing darts at the dartboard and just hoping you land on a quarterback. And like, I don't hate the strategy. I hate using premium draft picks on that strategy, especially when you're taking the six best quarterback.

Like, I know teams aren't good at deciding, like, who's the third best quarterback and who's the fourth best quarterback. It's hard to separate those two things. But, like, quarterback six, like, there's a very small chance that guy ends up being not only, like, a productive quarterback, but if you're taking a quarterback at the top of the first round, like, you want him to be a star. A quarterback, you feel comfortable giving him a $250 million contract in five years. I'm having a hard time, having watched Bo Nix's entire college career, like, envisioning him becoming that quarterback. And it's not even like if you read the scouting reports from people that are high on him. It's not like he's like this toolsy prospect who has this high upside.

Like the thing with him is that he's played a lot of football and he knows how to play football and he gets the ball out on time. Like you can get that in the second round and you get that in the third round. The fact that Sean Payton is going forward with pick number 12 is just astounding to me. This is Sean Payton who's been like the guy that's telling everyone who wants to hear that he wanted to draft Patrick Mahomes. And then this is the guy you laid out. This is the quarterback, the type of quarterback you land on.

It just doesn't make sense to me. And I think it's just more proof that this league, I think they're just quarterback crazy. And I think they're just so desperate that they're, like, as long as you draft a quarterback, you buy yourself a couple of years. And I think that's what this move is. But it's really Sean Payton putting all his eggs into Bo Nix,

into the Bow Nix basket. Because if this doesn't work, does he get another shot at this? Well, I'll read you a tweet from Adam Schepter, which says, Sean Payton wanted and intended to draft Patrick Holmes in the 2017, draft. When he held the 11th overall pick, he was ready to turn in the card. But before he could, the chiefs traded up to the bill's spot at number 10 and took Mahomes one spot before Peyton got him, leaving the Saints to draft Ohio State cornerback, Marshawn Latimore. Payton feels as strongly about

Bo Nix as he did Mahomes. He's lying. You're a liar. He's lying if he's saying that. So to be clear, is that even the worst case scenario? Isn't it worse if he's telling the truth? Yes, that's much worse, but I refuse to believe that. I refuse to believe that someone who is this good at coaching and calling plays on offense believes that, but he likes Bo Nix better than Patrick Mollens or as much, whatever he said, whatever lie he told. Well, I think you might have, I think you nailed it there, Stephen, with like,

he has this track record of what, 20, 25 years as being one of the best offensive coaches in the NFL. And when you're at that point, you can kind of talk. yourself into, I can make something out of this guy, you know, bring him in. He's accurate. He doesn't turn the football over and he's athletic. You know what? All right. He doesn't have all the tools. But you know what? I can build an offense around him that gets us to compete. And then it goes to what you were saying before. Like it's not a bad strategy to take a quarterback two years down the road. Did it work out? Yes, great. Did it not work out? Take another quarterback. Did that

work out. And now, that's easy for me to say. My job's not on the line. I'm not like, you know, this isn't my one shot at like my lifelong dream of being an NFL GM or a coach. But if I was an organization, if I was like an owner, I would be like, yeah, sure, let's do that. Now, you're right about the premium pick thing. It is like, I don't remember anyone thinking Bo Nex was going to go number 12 in this trash. So it almost felt like they're like, wow, well, we didn't expect, you know, him to be the only quarterback left at 12. They might have thought, hey, we can, maybe, we'll trade back from 12 and trade back again. Maybe Pennix won't have even gone yet and we can get Bo Nix at the beginning of the second or the end of the first.

And then all of a sudden the draft fell the way it did. And Sean Payton's like, I'm not going into next year with Jared Sidham and Zach Wilson as my quarterback. What are you crazy? Like, yeah, you only live once. I'm not wasting a year of my career doing that. So maybe he just sees those like, all right, there's enough to work with here that I can build an offense because I am such a smart offensive coach. and he is a very smart offensive coach, that I can build something that gets us to a level of competency.

And yes, you want a star quarterback. Obviously, everyone wants that. But also if like just from the whole salary cap, nerds, analytics, financial perspective,

if O'Nix is like the 19th best starter on this contract financially, that's like a win for the organization. Now, it doesn't get you anywhere. It's not getting you to the Super Bowl, the ultimate goal. So I'm not saying it is, but you can just say, all right, well, that bought us a little time. Keep adding to the roster rather than just being terrible next year with the quarterbacks you have.

I don't know if that's the case, but that like that could be his thought process. Well, at least it will save some money for the Waltons. And God knows they need, they need the extra money. Thank goodness. Russ took him to the cleaners, man. You can see him fitting into, you can see him doing, you know, a little bit of the old Drew Brees stuff with Bonner. Knicks and ultimately, you know, I do think that that even if this pick is certainly a little rich for where it happened, if the general sentiment of throwing darts at the dartboard is something

that's that I do think is smart. You know, it certainly depends on what the darts are and where they're going. Zach Wilson, Jared Sidham, Bo Nix. It's not the most inspiring collection, but I suppose, you know, I don't want to just like totally rip it. You give them some credit for trying. I just wonder, what I wonder is if there were,

if there would have been opportunities to trade back. I wonder to what extent, and you know, this is a hard question to answer unless teams start sort of leaking and explaining it is like, did they feel like they had to stay put to get these guys and the pre-draft assumption that for both Knicks and Pennix, the question was, did they go inside or outside of the first round, right? Like if they were going to be first round prospects, it was going to be late in the first round. Was that wrong in sort of a wholesale way where the league tended to be much high? on those guys and much more interested in just getting a quarterback sort of at all costs

than we realized, or is it simply that the Falcons and the Broncos just were kind of on one? And I guess I'm inclined to think that it's the latter. but given that these two quarterbacks just went went so much higher than consensus. It is interesting to me if we, if we're going to learn anything to the extent of like, oh, well, they were worried about so-and-so jumping up. You know, the Raiders were really trying to get a quarterback. Sometimes it's hard to trust some of that reporting. But I'm interested in whether or not this was just sort of two teams doing surprising things

or if this was something that was a little bit more league-wide than that. Yeah, I would think it was just the two teams doing surprising things. I don't think anyone had Atlanta taking Michael Pennix where they took them. And I think that probably drew or threw their draft boards into just chaos. And I mean, it's kind of interesting that the Vikings were the team that we talked about trading up like all draft season. For the last month, we've been talking about them trading up. And there were the one team that didn't make the desperate move. They didn't have to make a desperate move.

and it kind of worked out in their favor. So I think, like, they're, they're the one team that would, like, out of the teams that ended up with these questionable, these tier two quarterback prospects, I think they're the ones that, like, have to be the happiest with their return tonight. The other two, if I'm going to sleep and I'm a Broncos fan, I'm a Falcons fan, I'm just, I'm like, what just happened? Can we go back 24 hours and restart this and do this all over again? Because I don't know how to explain this.

No one was trading up for Bo Nix. I refuse to believe that that was happening. Yeah, I think that's right. With McCarthy, it's sort of interesting in the opposite direction where we went into the day talking about, okay, is Minnesota because they're the team that's had the most reported interest in him, would they have to go up to four or five in order to get ahead of teams like the Giants? And then it turned out that, you know, there was some reporting that, um,

Minnesota and also the Giants have called the Patriots about trying to get to three, weren't able to do that. There was some real interest in seeing if May was a possibility, if other teams could move up to three and then have an opportunity to maybe draft Drake May. But it seems like most of the buzz around the Giants being potentially interested in McCarthy, the Raiders having a lot of juice to possibly move up. up and also the Broncos for McCarthy. It seems like most of that ended up being a smokescreen, which works out for Minnesota because they were interested in him. You know, he's not, I don't think he's the most exciting long-term prospect, but he definitely fits that system going to one of the absolute best landing spots for one of these

guys. Good offense, good coach, good compliment of weapons. So, you know, and they only had to move up one spot to do it. So good news for Minnesota. the other three are sort of the no surprises picks. Anything on Caleb Williams to the Bears or Jaden Daniels to the commanders? I mean, I think you said that J.J. McCarthy might have landed in the best spot. Like now that the Bears roster is starting to come together and the offense is starting together,

like Caleb Williams landed into a very, very good spot. And there was a lot of talk like over the last couple months about him possibly not wanting to play for Chicago and trying to like force a trade or like trying to do it. Eli Manning, but they have two young tackles who are both promising. The receiving corps with Adunze, you add in him, he's like the missing piece to that receiving court. Now you have the explosive playmaker and DJ Moore who kind of can do things all over the field. You have the slot reliable possession receiver in Keenan Allen.

Now you have this like alpha dog X receiver who can win contested catches. Like Caleb Williams has anything he could want in a receiving core. And then Colcomet, like I think they overpaid him, but he's a good tight end. he's a decent tight end. So if their offensive line, if their interior is any good, if it's just decent, like, if Caleb is good in year one, this could be an offense that plays well enough to get them into a wildcard spot, I think, especially with the way that that defense ended the season, you don't typically see a team drafting first overall have this kind of

system in place for a top pick quarterback. Like, look at Carolina. There's the complete opposite last year. So not only did Caleb, like, he went number one, obviously. But I think he might have landed in the best spot out of any of these quarterbacks, which is, like, scary to think about if you're an NSC North fan. Yeah, I had the same note that, like, I'm not going to say, hey, well, someone's going to be, you know, this year, C.J. Stroud and the Texas,

I'm not going to go that far, but just you're right, when you're the first pick, you're usually not going to a team that was seven and 10 the previous year. And it wasn't like a fluke. Like, they were competitive the entire second half of the season. And like you mentioned, now you're adding two wide receivers to that group from last year. And by the way, you're adding a new offensive coordinator and Shane Waldron, who has had more success than the previous offensive coordinator. So yeah, it's like if you're a Bears fan, you're probably like internally amongst your own people. You're very excited, but you're probably

trying not to get out over your skis because you've been burned too often. But man, they are in a, they are in a spot of legitimate hope with quarterback supporting cast where it could be pretty fun right away, even if he's just like, he's going to make his rookie mistakes, but even if he's just like, all right, you know, mediocre with the flashes of brilliance that we saw in college, that's going to be a really fun season. And who knows beyond that? The draft tends to be calibrated to what were the expectations going in and then what are the results going out, right? So the teams that we talk about the most after the first round are the ones where we, you know, they, they get a player in the 20s who was expected to go in the 10s.

or the opposite. It's about relative, results relative to expectations. The bears are the team that sort of like once the smoke clears maybe had an opportunity and succeeded in truly reshaping their roster in a meaningful way in this first round. Drake made of the Patriots at three. I think they're thrilled with this. It seemed like it became more and more clear that Jane Daniels was going to be the pick in Washington and that I think cleared a lot of things up in New England because if because May would have been their preference of the two of those players.

Bill Belichick was on the Pat McAfee broadcast talking about the draft, breaking down some of the picks. Stephen, I actually wasn't watching that. I know that you were. I'm so curious to hear what you thought of Belichick live reacting to the Patriots picking a quarterback. higher than he'd selected one in New England. First of all, Belichick is electric as an analyst. I was not expecting that. The guy has takes.

Usually when you hear a draft prospect get broken down during like one of these telecasts, it's like Mel Kuiper, he's giving you both sides of the thing. He doesn't really have a take on the guy. Belichick had like negative takes. He was breaking down negative film on Drake May. Like you could see why teams might have been scared off from hiring him, how critical he was of these quarterback prospects. Like he didn't seem too excited about Drake May.

The Pettix draft, like, it would have been so interesting if they had hired him and Fottno and him butted heads on that. Because after the Penex pick, he was like, I don't know. I wouldn't have taken him there. He probably could have trade it down if you wanted him. I mean, I could see why you like him as a person, but like as a player, I don't know if it's there. He was dropping take.

So I really like Bill Belichick. But he didn't seem to be a big fan of Drake. Drake May when he was breaking down that tape. He seemed to pick out a lot of the weaknesses. I've heard Drake May's detractors pick out, like the footwork issues, the decision-making, the accuracy. It's all there. And I can see why I can see why Bill is seen as like a harsh coach, especially when it

comes to quarterbacks because the place he was breaking down the negative plays. Like these were like, I mean, I don't know if they would get a negative grade on PFF. Some of these plays were like barely even like in a dangerous territory. where he would like, like, Jaden Daniels worked backside on a play and tried to hit a hit route to a receiver. And the quarterback was like three yards away. And then Belichick was like, nah, you just got to dirt that one. That one's too dangerous.

You can't do that. And the guy caught the ball. The receiver caught the pass. He's like, yeah, you can't do that. So like, I don't know, man. I think Belichick is too tough on these quarterbacks. And I think that's like something to watch out for when he gets hired. Well, it's always, that's been a problem he's had with young players, right?

there's a demand for perfection that sometimes gets in the way of development, but also just sort of the realities of sometimes you got to check it up, man, and hope. And that's not, that's never really been his tendency. That's really interesting. I mean, I was, I was, saw some of the tweets and stuff about how it seemed like he just wasn't, the vibe was not big Drake May guy. he put his draft board on they had his draft board they had like his top 50 players or top 40 players

and jaden Daniels was number two really wow wow so if you want a bellichick draft board it's out there yeah but and then Drake may was was QB3 he was yeah he was but he was like but he wasn't prospect three no he was not prospect right okay I gotta look up Bill Belichette's big board

yeah that's exciting that's a get I got to say that's a get. All right. I think that's, that's pretty much it on the quarterbacks. Anything we're missing? I mean, I would just say May and Daniels,

I'm concerned. Like we talked about good situation for the other guys, I'm concerned about both their situations. I mean, Jade and Daniels, I really feel like the commanders had the resources to make that a better ecosystem for a rookie quarterback coming in. And they have like a bottom five offensive line in the NFL.

I would say I like Terry McLaurin. I like Jahan Dotson. But, you know, for a quarterback who had issues against pressure in college. And I like Jaden Daniels. But now to put him behind that offensive line, let's see what they do in the rest of the draft. They've got a bunch of picks,

but even then you're dealing with rookies. So that's a tough spot for him. And then Drake May, there's a conversation to be had about whether you even play him as a rookie. Stephen, I'm generally with what you said earlier, that as long as a guy's confidence is not going to be shattered and he's not going to develop horrible habits,

go out there, take your lumps, make your mistakes. if you're mentally tough, if you show like a propensity to learn, then that's a good way to learn. But man, you look at that offensive personnel on that team. And it's like everybody who liked Drake Mae was pointing to what he was surrounded with at North Carolina. It's like, yeah, he's coming to the NFL. It's not a great situation either. So that's another one just to kind of keep an eye on. And I don't think either of those situations are very good.

It's an interesting wrinkle that they apparently called the, called the Chargers about Justin Herbert. as kind of a random Hail Mary. I didn't quite know what to make of that because the Patriots are not exactly Look, if you're in a position to get Justin Herbert, I think you should get Justin Herbert. The Patriots are not exactly a Justin Herbert away. And presumably that would have come at great expense

if it had ever been entertained. Although, you know what? Like, I can't really, I can't fault it at all because one of my like most strongly held beliefs is that NFL front offices don't call each other about enough random stuff. So good for you. Good for you, Elliot Wolf. Just being like, can I trade for Justin Herbert? How dare you? Justin, every team is a Justin Herbert away. Okay. Let's get that one thing straight. Really? How has that gone for the Los Angeles Chargers? There's other circumstances. And also like, does Elliot Wolf have the juice to pull off a Justin Herbert trade? Even if even if the charges were down? He's just feeling so. He's not even the GM. He's like, I'm going to trade for Justin Herbert.

And then I'll become the GM. I'm going to trade like three for like four first round. I don't even know. Like what does it Justin Herbert trade look like? I mean, apparently there was like rumors on the internet. I think like one of these like fake reporters from Reddit like put out the rumor that the Harbaugh was thinking of trading Herbert and drafting McCarthy. And then like Schefter reported on it and apparently the Giants and the Vikings also called. So like this like internet rumor. became a thing that NFL teams actually made trade offers based on. It's amazing. Okay, but that's smart. Like, you should do that. If there's a weird random thing that opens a door for you to call and be like, maybe, please? I disagree. I disagree. There's, there's a certain point where you're wasting everybody's time. And I think when you're offering a trade that not only requires the charges to give up Justin Herbert, it requires the charges to

eat like a hundred million dollars in dead cap after they just signed. It makes no sense on any level. Okay. However, Jim Harbaugh has been telling anyone with ears that J.J. McCarthy is the greatest quarterback who has ever walked on planet Earth for like months now. He's lying. I'm not saying that he isn't. I'm just saying it creates a context within which the phone call is reasonable. when the potential reward is what it is, shoot your shot.

If Travis Kelsey has taught us nothing this year, it is to shoot your shot. And I commend the Vikings, the Giants, and the Patriots for doing so with the possibility of trading for Justin Herbert, which it sounds like they were shut down on in about 10 seconds. See, I disagree. You're Elliot Wolf. You're like, you're talking to Robert Kraft. You're like, yeah, I got some exciting moves. I got some, some colds in the fire. That's where you get the job.

And then it doesn't work. And then he's like, what were the moves that you were trying to pull? off. And then he's like, well, I was on Reddit and I saw that the charges were thinking about trading Justin Herbert. So I tried to trade for Justin Herbert. You don't say that you were on Reddit. You never say you got the idea from Reddit. Also, if you're like making an offer for Justin Herbert, why stop there? Why would not go for Patrick Mahomes? Do it. Do it. Dare to be great. You want all these GMs to be scared to compete. No, I just want them to have some sense. boring. Oh gosh. What world would we be living in if we were sitting on this podcast talking

about the blockbuster Patriots Chargers trade for Justin Herbert and J.J. McCarthy reunited with Harbaugh as the Chargers new quarterback in the future. I think Stephen would have would have not shown up. Let's take a quick break. We've talked about the quarterbacks. We're going to come back and we're going to do some winners and losers to go through the rest of the stories from the first round. All right, we're back on dual threat. Let's do some winners and losers. Sheel, would you kick us off with a winner?

Winner, Daniel Jones. Daniel Jones is that, you know how Kirk Cousins is having a bad night? Daniel Jones is having a great night. He went into the night wondering, am I even going to have a starting job next year? What is this going to look like? All of a sudden, like you guys said, J. Jim McCarthy, not as popular as maybe people thought

or the public, you know, was led to believe going into the draft. And so there were reports that the Giants tried to get up to three to draft Drake May. Once that didn't happen, it seemed like that was the quarterback they wanted. They stayed put and took Malik neighbor. So if you're Daniel Jones, not only did the Giants not take a quarterback, which if he was paying attention the last three months, like every Giants beat reporter, they were not shy about reporting on the fact that the Giants were doing a lot of work on those quarterbacks.

So not only do you not get another quarterback to compete with, you get Malik neighbors, who was one of my favorite prospects in the entire first round. Finally, somebody with some juice on that Giants offense. I think Daniel Jeremiah said, unless I heard him incorrectly, I thought he just flat out said, I was talking to Brian Daibald, and Daibald said we might be the slowest team in the league. Did you guys hear that? No, he said that.

Yeah, he said that, right? I was like, wow. Oh, that's great. That's kind of wild. Catch that. Yeah. By the way, DJ was name dropping all night. He was like, oh, yeah, I just got a text from Kirk Cousins agent.

Just, oh, yeah, I was talking to Brian Dave, oh, yeah. Tom Colesco. Some of the insiders were a little fast and loose this evening. I like it. I like the energy. Yeah, I support it. Yeah, right. Yeah, we don't need to be coy about it.

So Brian Daibol apparently thought he was coaching the slowest team in the league. I don't know how Joe Shane felt about that. But you get Malik neighbors there and we'll see what it looks like with Daniel Jones. I was thinking this, like, early. in the off season, I was like, the Giants are one of the worst teams in the NFL. They're a disaster. If I were like, hey, if you give me the exercise, say she'll make the case for the Giants. I could say the offseason, they get Brian Burns, young player premium position. They get Malik neighbors, young player premium position. They've got Andrew Thomas, a left tackle

who, you know, if he can get a little more consistent, a left tackle at a premium position who's young. Dexter Lawrence, defensive tackle, one of the best interior pass rushers. in the NFL, at least like they have some young talent now at some premium positions. I think around the margins, there's still got a lot of holes on that roster. And we don't know what they're getting a quarterback. And can Brian Dayball get along with the defensive coordinator where they're not, you know, every week there's a, I enjoyed those stories, by the way, with him in Wink Martindale.

So they're good for content. But if they can get some of that right, like maybe you have a little bit of a chance in 2024. Also, you can get along with his general manager after going around on his office there. Yeah, that's right. With that said, Shield, shield, how much games are they going to win next year? Yeah, I mean, I still won't be picking them to make the playoff six.

Six, seven wins is probably the over under, I would think. If I was a GM, you'd be my first hire. And I'd have you come out at every press conference and explain every questionable move that we make. I'm just going to let him handle this one. I have experience, yeah, I've listening to these G and then be like, all right. Like, I just saw they came across my eyes here that like Terry Fontenow said, that it's a good problem to have if Michael Penix doesn't have to play for four or five years. And one of my all-time roles as a reporter is that when a coach or GM says something is a good

problem to have, it is absolutely a bad problem to have. It is horrible. Someone screwed up. You do not. That's one. When they say they tried to do right by and then interplayer, that means they were acting in their own self-interest and get out of here. You did something. Or it means they got punked on value and they're trying to cover it up by saying that they were the good guys. Yeah. So all these rules have just been in my head over the years. And, you know, I could play the role of defending the GM.

Saying it's a good problem to have is like the opposite of like the saying if you have two quarterbacks, you have none. That's like the spin zone. It's like, oh, no, if you have two quarterbacks, it's actually a good thing. It's a good problem to have. There's no such thing is a good problem to have. That's not what that word means. That phrase makes no sense.

100%. That's not just football. That's like. Don't trust anyone who says something's a good problem to have. I like it. I like it. I like it. Life lessons here on the NFL pod. Stephen, it sounds like maybe, I mean, you've,

you've been on Daniel Jones Island a time or two. Have we, have we gotten out of the time share? No, I'm still on Daniel Jones' his fine island. I've been on it for, what is it? We need to get drafted in 2019. I've been on it since then. I wouldn't have drafted him six overall. That's like a Michael Pennick situation there. But like, he's a good player. And I think like the league keeps proving.

that he's a decent player when he, when he's healthy. Like, the Giants gave him money. It was a questionable deal. But they still believe in him. I don't know why everyone's, like, so quick to give up on Daniel Jones. The Giants clearly aren't. Like the fit with neighbors? Yeah, like, I think Neighbors is the type of player that you spend a top 10 pick on,

even if there are questions about his polish. Like, his upside is a number one receiver, superstar receiver. The way he moves, like, I have no problem with taking a chance on that. Even if it doesn't work out in the long run, I wouldn't be surprised if he's, like, not a great player in the long run because he does have some holes in his game that I think you need as a top wide receiver. But like when the ball's in his hands,

the dude's a star. So I see, you know, using that high of a pick on a player like that. All right. Congratulations to Daniel Jones. Let's, let's keep it.

No, maybe she'll ask you for your loser so that we don't do all positive and then all negative. Okay. My loser is David Teper. You're saying, shield, there's all these picks. Why are you picking the team that was irrelevant until the 32nd pick?

Why are you picking an owner? You could rip a team. All right. So, yeah, the Panthers barely had a role in this draft, right? They trade her away. The first round, they're the number one pick. Then they trade back in 33 to 32. They take Xavier Leggett, the South Carolina wide receiver.

Fine, whatever. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a little known establishment in Charlotte, North Carolina, called the Dillworth Neighborhood Bar and Grill. If you're listening and you're familiar with this establishment, I will admit that around, you know, a little after midnight, I took a look at the menu as I was getting ready for the pot and said, I'd go eat there right now.

I'm ready to eat at the Dillworth neighborhood bar and grill. I will not get that opportunity, but they had a sign out front, which I always enjoy these signs. I don't know if you guys have them around, but you can kind of rearrange the black lettering on the sign. Some establishments have them. You drive by you say, what's their saying today?

You know, what are they, what's on their mind today that I can look at while I drive by? And so they got one of those signs and it said, please let the coach and GM pick this year. Okay. So what happened during the draft, if you were focused on the draft, whatever, you might not have seen this. A gentleman named Brock, if you're a listener, Brock, thank you for listening, tweeted that Panthers owner David Tepper just stopped inside to have a word with the owners about the Sign out front. This is not a joke.

So, unbelievable. If you're a reporter covering the Panthers, you got to follow up. That's a good story right there. David Newton from ESPN follows up, gets in touch with the restaurant. According to the manager, Tepper stopped by and asked who the manager thought should make the pick. And the manager said Tepper wasn't visibly upset. And that was all. That was all the interaction.

Now, a couple of things here. Number one, if that's actually what happened. Bad question, David Teper. The sign is telling you, you know, who easily, literally, the sign is telling you who the manager thinks should make the pick. That's number one. Asking a lot of questions already answered by the shirt. By the shirt or by the sign in this case, out front of the restaurant.

So that's number one. But more importantly, what are you doing, man? It's an hour and 45 minutes until the NFL draft. You're worth $20 billion and you're reading the sign and you have to stop and go in and talk to the manager. Go about your day. Go to the team facility. Get ready for the draft. Why are you bothering with this?

This is everything that's wrong with your freaking franchise since you've taken it over. Why it's a complete disaster? So it's not a team. It's not a pick. It's the owner of the Carolina Panthers. And I'm sorry Carolina Panthers fans, but there's nothing worse than bad ownership. And this is just another. Like they didn't need to,

Tepper did not need to be in the headlines tonight. Just, he did not need to be in the headlines for round one. But here he is, because he had to stop by Dillworth Neighborhood Bar and Grill. And Dill Worth neighborhood bar and grill, don't be bullied. You know,

if you got another sign about Tepper, get it back up there. Well, we don't worry. We'll promote you on the Ringer NFL show. We'll get people to your establishment. We'll promote you and defend you. So there you go.

Steven, I'm going to go to you as our resident, as our resident Panthers, uh, Panthers enthusiast. I mean, first of all, I don't believe the manager. David Temper was mad. He was very mad. You don't pull over and get out of your car unless you're mad.

I avoid getting out of my car at all costs. Like, I would do anything in my power to not get out of my car. So, yeah, he was very mad. But, I mean, it doesn't surprise me. We're at the point where, like, I'll believe anything I hear about this guy. Like, yeah, half-finished team facility, practice facility. that they just abandoned in the middle of the project? Yeah, it makes sense.

Draft a 5-11 quarterback because he had a high score on the S2 test. Yeah, do that. It's higher Matt rule without interviewing any other candidates after, like just cite on the scene being like, yeah, we got to pay this guy. This is just what he does. He just reacts to stuff without giving it much thought. And like, when he was, when he first stepped over the team, the, like, the rap on him was that he was this analytical thinker

that he's going to consider all the evidence and do all this stuff and not act rationally, or act rationally, not act rationally. And like, he's done the complete opposite. He had, like, I don't know what his definition of analytics are, but like this team doesn't act like a team that, that uses the information that they're getting from their analytics department. This isn't a team that operates like the Ravens or another smart team. They, they make rash decisions and they, it seems like they try to blow up the team every

offseason. There's no coherent plan that goes from one year to the next year. It's like we have a new plan, a completely new plan every single off season. So I'm not surprised that he's the type of guy that pulls over when he sees a sign that's criticizing the team. It's very on brand for him. And I don't think this team has a future until they get a better owner or the owner gives the job to the GM and just lets the GM run the team. Like listen to the sign. The guy that put up that sign is right. Listen to the sign. I'm I mean, it, the, the, the Panthers were going to, the Panthers were going to have a rough night in some ways sort of regardless, right? Like, this is, this is the, the day that the bears get to draft this prospect who feels, you know, I think we throw around the word generational, maybe too much. But like, Caleb Williams is a really, really good number one overall draft pick type prospect that, you know, a team in that position would be just absolutely thrilled to. draft. And because of the decisions that they've made, the Panthers have to watch the Bears

go do that and hopefully change the course of their franchise. That's not good, right? Like, that's evidence of bad team management. And that is baked into the cake. The moment we woke up this morning, that was going to happen. And that was going to be part of the track record of the Carolina Panthers in the first round of this draft. But no one had to sit here talking about it. no one was going to talk about the Panthers tonight if David Deppere didn't go do something silly it's it's just don't make yourself the main character they're not they're not running a good football team in a smart way and they're also just like stepping in it and honestly I don't know why I'm speaking about this in the plural because it's just this one guy yeah he can't help himself

like that's the thing he's proven over the last it's he's owned the team for six years I think he took over in 2018 they've gotten worse every year they've got to rid of their best player three years in a row, three off-seasons in a row, I don't know how to remain optimist. I can't even talk now. I can't even like find the words to describe this team. I'm losing my mind when I talk about it. And like I get, I get invited on podcasts to talk about them during the off-season. And like the questions are the same. And I'm asked like, how do they turn this around? And I don't have an answer. There is, there's nothing to like grasp onto. I will say. If the.

The bar manager walks out onto the draft stage next year to make a pick for the Panthers. I'll laugh. I'll think it's funny. Just a little self-awareness. A little self-awareness goes a long way and they just seem to have absolutely none of it. Forget announcing the pick. Let them play quarterback. Let him play quarterback.

It's easier to find self-awareness than it is to find a quarterback. Let them run the team. Okay. Well, honorary winner is, what's the name of the bar? The Dilworth. neighborhood bar and grill. The Dilworth neighborhood bar and grill honorary winner David Teper loser. All right.

Maybe I'll give a winner next. I'm awarding my winner to the Jacksonville Jaguars, who I think ended up, first of all, making a good value move, but getting a position fit in Brian Thomas that they really need. because clearly like one of the big stories of this offseason of the Jaguars has been what happened with Calvin Ridley, who they pretty obviously seemed to think that they were going to be able to get back and that didn't work out. But Calvin Ridley, you know, had been, I think, a little underwhelming in Jacksonville so far. You know, maybe they thought that was going to turn a corner. But part of part of it was they were trying to figure out the fit. They're really trying to get him into that clear ex-receiver role.

and the results had been mixed. And I think now they've got someone in Brian Thomas in there who's clearly suited for that. You can see what the fit is going to be in Doug Peterson's offense. I love thinking about how Trevor Lawrence will be able to take advantage of his skill set. Obviously not saying he's as polished. Obviously, or is ready to produce right away as Ridley would have been. But in terms of this move being a little bit of a recovery from that situation in trying to get Redley back and not being able to do that being a little bit

of a misstep for them this off season. I think it's a really, really good recovery. And then you add in the fact that they traded back to do it and got a fair bit of value in the trade with Minnesota. They picked up the equivalent of about the 20th overall pick to drop down six spots. So that's great. You want to have to have to be a little bit. You want to have to add value wherever you can. I can't believe I'm sitting here giving this much kudos to Trent Balke, but credit where it's due, man. I think it's a great, it's a great player fit and smart process in getting the extra

draft capital. Anytime Balke is not a loser, he's an automatic winner. As long as he's not doing something that we can all ridicule, like he's a winner. And I think the point you made about like the stylistic fit over Ridley is a good one. And I don't think we've ever seen Trevor with a receiver like this. Part of the reason why the Jaguars' offense was so flawed last year is because the receiver room was so small. And it's hard to run a certain style of offense. You can't get your receivers involved in the blocking in the run game if they're small and they can't block.

And like, that's how their run game was designed. So I think getting a big body in there, obviously he has speed too. He ran a four, three at the combine. And then you have a guy that can win 50-50 balls, which we haven't seen Trevor throw to since college. And when he was in college throwing to Justin Ross and T. Higgins, he was like really good at those at those throws. So I think this will unlock another layer in Trevor's game. And I think there's a there's potential where they kind of missed out on Ridley, but they end up with a better receiver room because of it. And it up much better, not to keep going back to the cap implications. But yeah, Ridley got $23 million per year. And Thomas is going to be on a rookie deal. And I think he's got like if you asked me like over the next three to five years could now rookies. obviously there's an unknown, there's a lower floor,

but could he be a much better fit and a better receiver than Ridley would be over the next three to five years? Absolutely. I mean, he was also one of my favorite prospects in the first round. You mentioned it, 6-3-209 can fly averaged over 17 yards per reception last season. So it's not just like the size speed. It's like, no, no, he was very productive last year, had 17 touchdowns for LSU. So they could have taken him at 17, and I would have been like, good draft, good job, Jacksonville. So the fact that Balky didn't do that and traded back and you get, like you said, Nora, the third and fourth next year and you get a fifth this year.

I thought that was good job by then. Like the prospect, like the position, like the way you maneuvered the board. So for a team that their offseason has left me wanting more, first round of the draft, they're in a good spot, I think. Can I give you guys a fun fact? Yes. So pick number 23, which is what they got from Minnesota and used to make the pick. is the last of the first round picks that Cleveland sent to the Texans for Deshawn Watson. The Texans then traded it to the Vikings this offseason and then it went to Jacksonville.

So I always, it's first of all, it's sort of morbidly interesting to follow the Deshawn Watson trade compensation as it makes its way through different teams draft boards, but I always just like, I don't know, it always, it always sort of fascinates me when a pick goes on a journey and then you're figuring out like who traded what for where and where it's been and how many teams have held it at one point. So that's sort of an interesting one. Maybe we can keep track of that. Um, going forward, my loser, my loser is the Buffalo bills because I mean, come on, man. Like, just, just underwhelming. I'm not even, I don't want to, I don't want to like overly rip them. for not coming out of the first round with a receiver or with any player, frankly,

because they ended up trading back twice, first with the Chiefs and then again with the Panthers so that they will pick first in the second round when it opens. Because ultimately the result of this might not be that big of a deal, right? Like they had met in different parts of the pre-draft process with Adonai Mitchell. They'd met with Ladd-McConkie. They'd met with Keon Coleman, which means that they, have options at wide receiver at the top of the second round that might work out to be exactly the same based on their board with what they'd done if they'd stuck and made their pick.

But Brandon Bean's sitting there. And first of all, you know, gets the call to make the trade with the chiefs and gets very little in terms of value to do it. the net value of that pick is basically equivalent to the last pick in the draft, you know, depending on what value chart system you use. But it's a really negligible amount of draft capital that he gets in return. And then just on a purely vibes level, letting the chiefs, this team that has owned your conference and keeps beating,

you in the playoffs. And as Patrick Mahomes get like the fastest wide receiver ever in Xavier Worthy with the with the pick that you traded to them and got very little to show for it in this offseason where you've had half a dozen starters walk out the door, haven't really done a lot to replace them. The highest profile and also the most recent has been Deggs, which led the entire NFL commentariat and the league-wide consensus to be, well, the bills need a receiver,

and they'll try to get a receiver in the draft, and, oh, they're picking towards the end and what receivers are going to be left and how are they going to navigate that? Are they going to try to trade up? It just lands with such a thud, and it feels like you helped your main rival get better. And I want to be careful to underscore that they might come out of this with, you know, one of the couple of players that they were thinking about drafting with the original pick anyway. But it just feels bad. So that's why the bills are my loser. No, I would agree with that because I feel like they needed a win this offseason.

I think the easy way to do that was just draft an exciting prospect that the fan base can get excited about. now, I just, like, how do you get excited as a Bills fan, which is crazy to say about a team that was so close to winning a Super Bowl these last couple of years and you have Josh Allen, but it really feels like, like you said, you helped the rival get better and you've gotten worse over the last month. And I just feel like this team has gotten even further away from a Super Bowl. And like, obviously it's not as dire as the Panther situation, but it's another situation. It's like, what do I have to be happy about? What do I have to be happy about? What do I to look forward to this season. And I don't know because I feel like this season is going to end

like a lot of the other seasons have ended with them disappointing and then you being able to point to a very obvious reason why they disappoint it. And I think this year it's going to be the receiving room. I just don't know how this offense works without a receiver that threatens defenses because it's Josh Allen. And then who is the other player on this offense that threatens defenses? I just don't see one. And say what you want about worthy as a prospect, but I think he has that ability to do it just because of his speed. Well, and also when he goes to the chiefs, it's like, okay, yeah, I, I, you know, you have, you have a prospect who has incredible ability in specific areas, but also some, some areas of, of weakness and needs to be used in a specific way. And I'm going, yeah, Andy Reid's going to be fine.

He's going to figure it out. Patrick Mahomes is going to figure it out. They're going to do, you know, they're going to, they're going to use the screen game. They're going to deploy him in the ways that make sense. He's not going to have to, you know, carry too much of a load as as a young player. They're already good. And it's just like it makes you feel like it's going to, going to have a better chance of working out because of that. Shil, I feel like you had had something to step in and say. Well, I'm just the resident Bill's defender during all, all ringer. Podcasts, I'll say, just wait to see what it looks like when the draft is over. They did, you know, they got the 33rd pick. So they're in a nice position.

On day two, they've got three day two picks. They've got 10 picks overall. I mean, it could be a situation where they're like looking at the roster. And I remember we all did a pot and we're like, man, you know, like, ooh, they've got holes and they've got older. They're moving on from the older players. They might have felt like this has to be sort of a volume draft where you take a lot of a lot of dart throws and hopefully get some players who can stick with you during this next era of Bill's football. But I can't deny what you guys are saying about, I mean, the wide receiving group right now. I mean, it's really going to have to be for every year we talk about, man, I can't believe how much Josh Allen has to do.

It's like now you're taking that to even another degree going into next year. So let's say what they get here at 33 on Friday. If that's not a offensive player, a wide receiver, then yes. And it always just from a fan perspective feels like a bummer. When you're so excited for the draft, you read all the hype, and then you go in and your team trades back twice. And then you have to wait until the next day. So just from that perspective, there's no doubt about it. And players feel that too, especially when it's a rival, I think.

But you're right. I mean, they're going to have options, right? Like if the bar for the, if the bar for the bills is to come out of this draft with a receiver that people can get excited about, they've still got an opportunity to do that. And trading back is often the most prudent strategy in the draft. It's just if they're going for volume, what they're going. coming out of these moves with is, okay, yeah, you get a little bit of extra volume. It's towards the end of day three.

Yeah. You're right. They didn't get a great. It's not like they got a hall where all the nerds are going, oh, yeah, you know, great. You're absolutely right about that. You look at it. You're like, oh, okay.

I guess that's fine what they got back. And most of the teams that moved up in the first round had to pay a decent premium on it. I mean, we just talked about what the Jags got. Yeah. for the Vikings to move six picks. Even for Minnesota to get up to 10 with the Jets, they had to spend a little bit. You know, there's always sort of the quarterback dynamics and stuff.

And I don't think it's worth like super, super quibbling with, you know, just small differences. But they can't really make a full-throated argument. of yeah, but look what we got in return. We're going to be able to round out this roster. It's like, okay, I mean, yeah, you get to throw a couple extra darts at the dartboard towards the end, towards the end of the draft. Most of those players don't make the roster.

But we'll see. We'll let him round it out. All right, Stephen, you want to close this out with a winner and loser here? Yeah, my first winner is a team we've already talked about the Minnesota Vikings, but I want to talk about their second pick, Dallas Turner. They did give up a decent amount for this trade, but I thought. Talk about a defensive player. I know.

Finally. How many picks was there before a defensive player got taken? It was like 15, 14. It was a record, whatever it was. 14. Yeah. 15. The Colts took a lot too.

But getting Dallas Turner where they got him, like I'm okay with the trade up in this situation just because I thought Turner was a player that could have been worth the top 10 pick. By the way, Bill Belichick, top defensive player on his board, Dallas Turner, the defensive coordinator for the Vikings, Brian Flores. I think there's a fit there. Here's what I will say. You do need to calibrate.

great Bill Belichick's opinions for the fact that watching defense makes him happy and watching offense makes him upset. I do, but Brian Flores probably watches football in the same way. And I think Brian Flores is very happy right now that he got Dallas Turner, who's a player that can rush the pass or he can drop back into coverage. He's like the ideal modern edge. And you throw him into this defense that punched above its weight with bad personnel, in my opinion. Obviously, like, they've made some changes. Hunter's gone. They bring in Grenard. They're bringing Van Ginkle. But I think now they have an edge group where you can do more stuff and they don't have

to rely on that blitz-happy defense they had last year where it was kind of like boom or bust. I think now they could be a little bit more sound on the back end. And if that offense like hits like we think it might hit and if JJ McCarthy is just fine in his rookie year, like this is a good team. But I really liked the draft they had. I like that they didn't force the quarterback move where teams around them did. Like the Falcons reached obviously. I think the Broncos reached.

and they didn't reach for McCarthy, in my opinion, really. And then you add a player that could be the best defensive player in the draft when everything is said and done. And he happens to be a fit for your scheme, just an A plus draft for them. And they didn't have to overpay for it. Yeah, I thought like Quesia do for Mensa, I think deserves a lot of credit because like the spotlight was on him going into this draft. It was like, you basically have to get a quarter.

If they didn't get a quarterback, we would have, you know, one of us would have been calling them a loser in this, in this segment being like, Oh, they got the extra first round pick and they didn't even get a quarterback. What are they doing here? All Sam Darnold Pod. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. But it also could have come to the point.

Like a lot of GMs probably would have panicked at some point there and been like, we got to move up. Let's just move up. Let's get our guy. And they didn't really have to do that. I mean, they moved up one spot only from 11 to 10. Like, if you would have told Vikings fans or if you would have just told me before the draft that the Vikings will get J.J. McCarthy at 10, I would have been like,

that's going to be a great draft for them. And, you know, it's not like I'm the biggest. J.J. McCarthy guy, but I think for that scheme, you can kind of see it with his athleticism. He rips, throws over the middle. He's young. You can grow with him. Like a lot of these teams, they move on from the veteran. It takes them a while to take that shot on the next guy. So I do like that they go cousins. And now, all right, very next year, he's our plan. And that is a, you were mentioning it earlier. I mean, it can't be overstated. Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, T.J. Hawkinson, two good offensive tackles and an offensive-minded head coach. Like,

that is j jay mccarthy's situation compared to he's he's a winner also honestly because he could have ended up with who knows the giants the patriots the commanders like this is a much better situation than all of those so yeah i think uh the downless turn i was i was a little surprised at what they gave up but i'm with you i thought he was like a great prospect he's 21 years old he led the cc in sacks last year he was an elite athletic tester like those are the kind of edge rushers i want to take a shot on in the first round again it's a premium position if you're going to take a shot, at least make it on a premium position. So yeah, it's kind of the opposite of the bills where the bills, you were just mentioning,

Nora, like their fans are like, oh, great, wasted my time for four hours. Vikings fans are going to wake up tomorrow. Like, oh, my gosh, what a first round. That was an all-timer. Also, I just got to say, J.J. McCarthy posted an Instagram photo from the Detroit aquarium or me zoo aquarium, whatever. And he got to hang out with the penguins. and it's just this photo and it's J.J. McCarthy and he's just sitting there and he's like surrounded by a couple penguins and he looks really happy and the penguins look like they're having a good time and he posts it and he captions it's something like, you know, so happy to be in Detroit.

Had a great day with the fellas and the fellas are the penguins. And I've got to say, I loved it. I thought it was fantastic. That's a great caption. So I'm happy, I'm happy for the Vikings. rankings and I'm happy for JJ McCarthy and I'm happy for the fellas. You would have drafted them in the top five off that. No, I was like, okay, sold. Fine. All good. Absolutely all good. Instead of top golf, you get them all to the aquarium.

Take them all to the zoo. Yeah. And then make them post. Make them post. See how they present themselves to the world. See if they've got a sense of humor. See if they know how to know how to keep the people engaged. I just, I was impressed all around. Close us out with a loser. Yeah, my last loser is us.

Because I don't know about you guys, but I look forward to the draft as like the end of the football season. I get to relax finally. But then the 49ers decided to go draft Ricky Pierce all out of Florida, a wide receiver when they have two very good receivers as it is. And now we have a trade situation brewing. Michael Silver reports that he's talked to other teams and the teams seem to think that Debo Samuel is more available.

than Brandon Ayuk who needs a new contract. So we have to deal with that over the next couple of days. And the 49ers have to deal with that over the next month. Apparently, Kyle Shanahan says it's unlikely that either of them will get traded during the draft, but he's not closing the door on that happening. But Kyle Shanahan thinks we're all going to be dead tomorrow. So yeah, Kyle Shanahan, famous, another famous liar in media. I've been calling a lot of people liars on this.

A lot of people are liars. But the 49ers has some stuff to sort out over the next couple of weeks. And that's bad news for us because we might have to hop on a podcast. pod. We might have to write some articles. We're going to have to do some work over the next couple of weeks because the 49ers decided we need another wide receiver for this superstar offensive cast. How much helped does Brock Bertie need, by the way? So, seeing Brock Purdy in some, uh, seen, in some advertisement. Seems like he's getting a little bit of those those endorsement gigs. Good for him. Good for him. Cash those checks. She'll knows.

She'll knows the, what is it, Team CTC. That's right. To a good job. Brock It's on a rookie contract. He's got to make money somewhere. Absolutely. He was the story. He was living in a house with like six buddies in San Francisco. It's not expensive market. That's right.

I'm curious in this idea, in this, the reporting that the receiver who's on the trade block seems to be shifting to possibly being more likely to be Dibo than I, because Stephen, I know you and Austin and I had sort of outlined on our last. show how it seemed like Ayuk made more sense as a trade candidate than Debo. And obviously the reporting contradicts that I do think the selection of Peersall, and I'm curious what you guys think about this, seems a little bit more like one that would slot into a role more similar to the one that Ayuk fills for them than Debo. Though obviously, like, Debo is such a unique player that there's really. going to be a selection where it's like, oh, well, he'll just go into the Debo Samuel role. But I don't know.

Those seem like mixed signals to me. I still, it's not that I don't trust the reporting, but there's something in my heart that feels like they're not trading Depot. Am I wrong to be getting those vibes? I think the only reason why they would consider that is because of the way he plays the position. There is attrition to the way he plays the position. and like his usage isn't that of a typical wide receiver.

So I could see like you're not getting the value you get out of a receiver when you pay him a bunch of money. So I could see them preferring the more sure thing down to down, the guy that can help you out on third down more often, the guy who has a longer shelf life in theory, that would make sense. But I do agree with you. Like I think if you're adding Pearsall and you get rid of Debo, like this offense loses a huge element to what made them so good. Whereas if you replace IEUK with.

with Pearsall, you obviously take a step back, but I think in the long run, eventually, maybe you can replicate what I got you with Pearsall combined with Kyle Shannon drawing up the plays. I don't think Pearsall compares to him as a player at all. But it's Kyle Shanahan. Who knows what he thinks about this offense? Who knows what he thinks about the receiver position? It's really the position he's most fickle on. Everyone talks about how he views quarterbacks, but the receiver position might be even tougher. He puts them in the doghouse. He doesn't let them out. Yeah. Well, and Iyuk is an example of that, right? Like, that was his guy. When they drafted him, it was like this, like, Kyle was, all of the reporting was that that Chanahan had like pounded

the table and was like, this is the one that I want. And then he gets in the building and he's, he's obviously a really important part of that offense now and has played really well, but has had ups and downs and bed in the doghouse and sort of gone in and out there. So it's definitely a position that obviously as, you know, we think of Kyle Shanahan as this as this sort of like quarterback guru. He was a receiver. He's really particular about those guys and really tough on them. So it's an interesting situation. Which has an additional wrinkle, which seems to be that Brandon Ayuk is on his phone.

Like Kirk Cousins' agent was texting. Brandon Ayuk is texting and calling. He apparently texted John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan after the selection was made and said, fire pick can't lie which is a great message and then also supposedly he called Ricky Fierce Hall like this evening to congratulate him

they were teammates at ASU so they know each other obviously but it seems like he's online he's paying attention that's how Aaron Rogers should have handled the Jordan love pick you know fire pick can't lie no complaints Iyuk seems like a fun-loving guy.

Yeah, I kind of like a big guy, you can to my building. He can play for my team. He's not going to be in the dog house. It is a good point, the way you said about him. Like, yeah, they drafted him.

And I was in the dog house. He had to get himself up. So like with Pearsall, who knows? They might love him now. But like once he's out there for training camp, it does one thing wrong than how is Shanahan going to feel about him. So I think Iyuk would have more trade value. He's two years younger than,

Debo Samuel and Samuel's trade value is kind of tricky because yeah, I'm with you, Steven. Like the way he plays the game, you wouldn't expect him to be someone with like a long extended career where he's just durable and not getting hurt. But man,

he's still one of the most fun players in the NFL to watch. So I don't know. I don't know what to make of it. Are all three of them going to be on the team? It feels like one of it. It feels like one of them will get traded at this point.

But I don't know. Who knows? If I'm them, I would just go into the season with all of them. I don't know why these teams are so anxious to get rid of these. Yeah, you're trying to win a Super Bowl, right? Why get cute with it? Yeah, I think they have, they're in a spot where they can win a Super Bowl right now.

I don't think Pierceall is going to help them right away anyway. So I could see all three being on the roster and then just like figuring it out next all season. Well, hopefully they'll start to figure it out if they're going to make a move in the second and third days of the draft. Because then, then we can be done with it. And then, you know, we'll know what's going to happen. We'll be able to make our predictions. Of course, this is all about us as. as the reporters and the podcasters and the writers

because that is, of course, paramount in what everybody cares about. But we'll see what happens. And maybe some of these storylines will continue to unfold in the second and third rounds tomorrow. And I think we can finish it up there after an exciting first round of the draft. Thank you so much for listening. I'm Nora Princiotti.

Thank you to Stephen Ruiz and Sheila Capadia for joining me on this pod. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely for producing this episode, to Eduardo Ocampo for his work on socials, and to Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramkopol for their additional production supervision. Next up on this feed on Saturday, Sheal, Stephen, and Austin Gale will have you covered wrapping up the entire draft once it has finished up.