The Ringer NFL Show - NFL Draft Stock Watch: QB Edition | The Ringer NFL Show

Episode Date: March 29, 2019

The guys discuss the teams that need a home run draft to be a real playoff contender in the 2019 season (0:40), before draft guru Danny Kelly joins the program to provide a stock watch of the top QB prospects in the 2019 NFL draft (41:30). Hosts: Robert Mays and Kevin Clark Guest: Danny Kelly Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, welcome to The Ringer Podcast Network. This week on The Ringer.com, it's 1999 movies week. Already up on the site, we've released parts one and two of the top 50 movies of 1999. And later this week, Shea Serrano is writing about The Matrix. Andrew Grudadarro is writing about cruel intentions. And Rob Parvilla argues why Being John Malkovich is the best movie of that year. You can also check out the Big Picture podcast to hear Sean Fennacy, Amanda Dobbins, and Chris Ryan share their top five favorite movies from 1999.

Check out those articles on the ringer.com and listen to the big picture wherever you get your podcasts. To The Ringer NFL show. I'm Robert Mays. joined as always by Kevin Clark. Kevin, how you doing, buddy? You know, Robert, four summers ago, I sat down with Jim Tom Sula, then the 49ers coach. That's an all great stories start, by the way. It's an all great stories start. No matter how long ago, but just sitting down with Jim Tom Sula. Continue. And he told me that in the midst of team meetings, he would give players phone breaks. 10 minute phone breaks. He called the media breaks because he had seen a couple of different presentations from CEOs, CMOs, that kind of thing, where attention spans for millennials and the generation below them were really dropping. So his whole thing was, why don't we give these guys phone breaks? I wrote the story.

It was fun. It made moderately large waves at the time, it being a summer NFL story. And I didn't think anything of it. woke up yesterday in Phoenix, Arizona. Cliff Kingsbury is being just destroyed for the same thing. Even though, by the way, it's completely, it's not out of the ordinary at all. Like guys getting breaks because they don't have the attention spans

they did 10 years ago or whatever, that's kind of NFL norm now. But Cliff Kingsbury says it and all of a sudden, we have to rake him through the coals. It kind of dominated the NFL news cycle somehow. It was, that's where, how you know that, I was going to say that's how you know where we are in the NFL calendar, but the owner's meetings are going on.

There's actual things happening. So that's not true. But I was so surprised by it. I think it's because he framed it as phone breaks. I think that's why. So did Jimmy T. Sure. That's fine.

I'm just saying, I think that's the element of this that people were getting upset about. I thought it was funny. I thought every single bit of I was misplaced. But that's what people want to do, man. I think it tells you how far we've come or just the direction we've gone with Twitter in the last four years. People want to be way more pissed off about things than they used to be. Sure.

I would also say that Kingsbury himself, because he is millennial adjacent, it's viewed as somehow soft that the vaguely millennial head coach is giving players phone breaks. If they grizzled, if Doug Marone did it, it would be like, oh, wow, good job, Doug Maron. Doug's really chapped into the youth of America. Yeah. Oddly enough, I actually heard Belichick has done extensive studies. on how millennials operate. I don't know if he gives them phone breaks,

but every single team, Les Need has done it. I've talked to Less Need about it. I've not talked to Belichick about it, surprisingly. But I just think that the readjusting your calendar and your schedule based on studies that show that this generation, because of their phones,

because of all that, have different attention spans. It's not something to get angry about. It's really not. We're not going to talk anymore about that, because it's not something to get angry about. We're going to talk about the NFL draft today for the first time on this podcast this year.

And we're going to do so over each of the next four weeks. Danny Kelly is going to be joining us a little bit later to talk about this year's quarterbacks, which we feel is a very good place to start our own draft guru, Danny Kelly. We are going to, over the next month or so, during each show, talk about one central topic related to the NFL side of the draft,

not necessarily the prospects, because that's D.K.'s territory, and he knows more than us. now and most likely forever. But we wanted to kind of approach it from, all right, if you're a specific NFL team, if you're a set of NFL teams, how does this draft impact you?

How should you think about the draft? So what we're going to talk about today is a topic you and I have discussed a decent amount over the last couple of years and it's been brought on by what the Saints did in 2017. And it's this idea of if you hit a home run draft, what can it do for your team? We're going to talk about the five or six teams

that are really a perfect draft away, from getting put over the top and kind of need a perfect draft based on the timeline of their franchise. I would also add the Indianapolis Colts had a home run draft last year. We saw what that did to their franchise as well. Yep, exactly. So just how quickly a draft like that can change your fortunes. And we're going to break down some of the teams that we feel are that kind of draft away

from being a real player in the NFL playoff picture. So we had a couple teams you and I that we agreed on. And we're going to start with those couple teams. And the first of those teams is the Green Bay Packers. So why did you feel like Green Bay was maybe the most obvious team on this list for you? Well, there's a couple things. If you're going to look for the New Orleans model, you're going to look for, A, a quarterback that's really good and has a lot of talent, but B, a very expensive quarterback. And an aging one.

What has happened to Drew Brees and the reason that his pretty, when you compare it to the rest of the NFL, pretty ridiculous cap hits, even though it keeps restructuring, I believe his cap hit in 2020 is $41 million. It's not ideal. that's that's uh that's interesting those are some baseball numbers especially when tom brady's making 15 million yeah and and like dac prescott's making like 900,000 dollars this year um not for long man no i know that i know that so what what ends up happening is you need an alvin kamara who you get in the middle rounds you need michael thomas who you get in the middle rounds just absolute playmakers who are really cheap and they make up and this is this goes back to what an expensive quarterback is an expensive quarterback is an expensive quarterback

can be worth it if two things happen. Number one, he makes up for the talent you lose. He makes up for, you know, when they pay Jared Goff in Los Angeles, they pay Carson Wentz in Philadelphia, they're going to lose a good offensive lineman. They're going to lose maybe a good second receiver. You have to make it up with talent. You have to create good second receivers. You have to be so good pocket awareness that you make up for the offensive line. That's how you operate it. But then the second thing is you have to draft well and you have to have really good cheap players around you. If the Packers get a dynamic playmaker, I mean, certainly one in the middle rounds.

Listen, one of the things I'm not going to do this month is sit here and say, well, hey, I mean, the Saints got Alvin Kamara in the middle rounds. You can get an Alvin Kamara. That's rare. But what I am saying is that if the Packers are able to draft a dynamic playmaker, they can really, really push for contention this year. Because I like their secondary. I think that that front of them.

front office as set up right now is really good. I love their signings. We went over last week as far as free agency goes. I love both the Smiths. So I'm in on the Packers. If, if they can get a good cheap playmaker this year. But that's what we're trying to do here, right? Is that it's not, well, you can find it Alvin Kamar in the middle rounds.

It's, well, what if they do? What if they are the team that does find that guy they weren't necessarily thinking about? So if we're trying to build this draft for the Packers, just over a three round kind of stretch, what are the spots who you think they need to improve on for them to get to that next level? Great question. Because first of all, I like Aaron Jones. I would just keep them. Yeah, I think their running back spots are totally fine.

I think Aaron Jones's problem is a lack of work. I don't think the Packer's problem is a need to upgrade a running back. No, I'm saying, I'm not saying you go out and get a first round running back, a second round running back. If they hit on a great fifth round running back, they're going to take it. It's going to be fine. I think it's a dynamic receiver. Again, I'm not going to sit here and say they need Michael Thomas, but it would certainly help to hit on a Michael Thomas type for Aaron Rogers.

I agree with you. And I think that they do need another receiver. To me, it's just the type of receiver. You bring up Michael Thomas, and I think that's an interesting name because they drafted a couple of guys last year that kind of showed some outside the numbers athleticism, whether it's Marquez Valdez Scantling or Equaminae St. Brown.

Those are guys you drafted late. They're not going to block anybody if you feel like there's a really good player there that you want. but you can get by with those. I think what they've been lacking the last couple years when you've kind of had Randall Cobb in that shelf himself role

is a middle of the field receiver. Excuse me, Jimmy Graham didn't work out. So to me, it's a middle of the field receiving threat whatever position he happens to come at. Because what Matt LaFleur has shown a willingness to do not only in Tennessee, but in previous spots as an assistant, or staff he's been a part of it, shown a willingness to do,

is use different personnel groups. So if you have a guy like T.J. Hawkinson or Noah fans or these tight ends that you can get early in the draft, this is a coach who is very willing to use more than one tight end. And the Packers roster, you look at it right now, it's Jimmy Graham. It's not really much else. Lance Kendrick is a free agent. They have not resigned him. So if they went out and got one of those guys and you can kind of make Graham more of that slot receiver type not being in line as often as he has been in the past and use two tight ends at once, that can give a new element. to your offense. And I think that for me right now is the most important thing that they need. I don't remember what it ended up being, what I know in late in the season, November, when Michael Thomas essentially had a 90% catch rate

and over the middle of the field was even higher. I think Drew Brees completed something like 85% to 90% of his passes over the middle of the field. And that just opens up so many things. I think we all, I've talked about it a million times, you know, no one threw outside the number is more than Mike McCarthy last year. Aaron Rogers led the league in two things last year.

Throws outside the numbers and throwaways. I believe he shattered the throwaway record for PFF. PFF keeps track of throwaways, and I think Aaron Rogers broke the record by Thanksgiving. Okay. So the routes were not there for him. So not only do you need more innovative coaching, Matlifer is going to help with that,

but you're going to need that over the middle of the field weapon like Drew Brees's hat. Yeah, and they don't have that. And they haven't had it since Randall Conno. is falling off. So that's the element of their offense. I think they need, looking a little bit more long term, they need probably a replacement

for Brian Belaga. This is the last year of his contract, but that's not really the conversation we're having right now. On defense, they filled a lot of their immediate needs and then they drafted so many guys in the secondary high over the last couple years.

You want to see how that stuff really works out. I still think the two things they've missed over the last couple seasons are athleticism at linebacker. And this year, I think with the last thing they need is just depth along the defensive line. because even with Preston Smith, Mike Daniels, Kenny Clark, Zadarius Smith as your nickel pass rush package, there is not much behind that.

Kyler Fackerel had a decent year last year. You can make that argument, but they still need a few more dynamic players along that defensive line. So in the middle of their field, in the middle of the defense period. So that's what I would say for them. I would say if it's about right now, it's about what can get them over the top in 2019. It's a middle of the field pass catcher, some athleticism on the second level, whether that's an extra safety or a new linebacker and some.

at defensive line. If they get all three of those things, I think that's when they become very, very scary. Again, I like how they've built their secondary. Agreed. And so everything in front of that, as you said,

you can improve upon. And I think that that's... The NFC North is extremely intriguing to me as a whole because I don't know what happens here this year. You have worried many times about not only just defensive regression because that happens at the NFL,

but Fangio-related regression with the bears. What about Trubisky this year? What does Negi take, you know, sort of the sophomore jump that a lot of coaches take? I don't know what's going to happen. We're going to get to another NFC North team in a second, but I'm really intrigued by that and I think there's a massive opening

if they have a home run draft. By the way, by the way, Brian Goodenkundst, like universally positive reviews. Yeah, so far, I mean... No, I'm saying like when I talk to GMs or talk to coaches or whatever, people just as a parenthetical are like, that guy's really good at his job. job.

Yeah. I mean, it's been fine. So, I mean, this year, we'll see how this free agent class works out. The Jimmy Graham thing looks really bad. And they have to pay him for a couple more seasons. So that one was not fantastic, but it's hard to argue with Jay or Alexander getting an extra first round pick, which they have, by the way, this season. So that's something else to take into account with finding this talent that we're talking about.

All right. Let's move on to another kind of forlorn former NFC contender, and that is the Atlanta Falcons. And the reason I wanted to put the Falcons on here is because their offense, last season was actually pretty darn good for most of the year until they fell off. And that's why Steve Sarkisian is not there anymore, everything else. But I still think this team has enough talent offensively to stay really good. And for me, it's about can they hit on a couple defensive players? And they really need to because their window is definitely closing.

You have Matt Ryan's contract, which is huge. You have guys like Dion Jones who are going to be free agents after this season. you know, Grady Jarrett is franchised right now. Who knows what's going to happen with him? So they're a team that they need to get a lot better on defense very quickly. And I think this draft is going to be where it needs to happen. Let me ask you a question. Where would you rank Matt Ryan amongst NFL quarterbacks?

It's pretty high. I mean, I don't know exactly what the ranking would be right now. But, you know, last time we did this, it was after his MVP season. So I think that probably threw it off a tiny bit. But I'd have to. look at a list. It's definitely in the top 10. I mean, by clearly, the season he had last year, it's one of the

more impressive seasons to me he's ever had. I agree. Just because the help wasn't necessarily there all the time. The schematic advantages weren't there. And that's why, to me, that's what I'm saying is that with how good he's playing right now, you really want to try to take advantage of this. And last season was the exact opposite

of that. And that's why I think this season is so important for them and this draft is so important for them. So what, what specifically are you after there? I think they need pass rushing help. Yeah. Both on the interior and outside. I mean, Vic Beasley,

Dan Quinn, it was not shy this week, essentially said Vic Beasley had one year of really good production and a couple years of some production. That's about as blatantly as you can call out a former first round pick. So I wouldn't be surprised.

I mean, I think this is going to be the last year he has there. And then Tack McKinley has developed slowly. Yep. You have Jared, again, Grady Jared on the franchise tag and no one really next to Grady Jared. You know,

D'Ard Senate was their third round pick last season. If you want to roll with him, but I think they just need pop on that defensive line. A guy like Ed Oliver is somebody I've heard thrown around a bunch. There's a chance not he's not even there anymore based on how he just tested today. But they really need athleticism and just a dynamic force on their front four. I think that's the number one element right now. Yeah. And I would also say that health is so important there. Obviously. You know, they lost basically the entire middle of their defense by October 1st. Yep.

So that's one of those things where they're already going to have a jump because as long as everybody's held it, there's already going to be that jump. So you get one or two of those guys in there. I totally agree with you. That's a real team worth watching. I still expect the Saints to be really good. So I don't see the sort of opening the Packers do, but I could definitely see them as a playoff contender if they get a few breaks in the draft. You hope you'd take a little bit of a leap forward again just by health regression like you said. But what they've done on offense, they've tried to fill those spots.

cheaply. James Carpenter, Jemann Brown. Their guard spots were the biggest issues last year. They had injuries there and it really came back

to bite them. They signed a couple guys there. I think that defense and the front seven just depth there, an extra corner, if they can get a corner in the late rounds, I mean, Brian Poole being an undrafted free agent

that stepped in for them a couple years ago was huge. And they just lost him. So you need that kind of player. And then the other thing I still feel like would really give their offense one more bit is if they can find a fifth, six round, just athletic middle of the field player.

They assigned Luke Stocker to be their second tight end. I think those are the types of tight ends they want. But now that T Evan Coleman's gone, I think you want somebody with a little bit of bite. And maybe Edo Smith is that guy. But I think that's another element they desperately need. Yeah, agree. Again, I think that we lost track.

I'm not going to make the direct comparison, but we lost track of how good Matt Ryan was in some of those losing efforts last year. It almost reminded me a little bit of the sort of of lost Drew Breesiers. Yeah, that's a good comparison, actually. Yeah, because it was, like, it'd be week 15, and the Saints would be 6 and 8 or something,

and hopefully I get those, hopefully that whatever week I said lines up with the record I just said, because I've been that mistake before. There was that way every single year, so there's no way you can be wrong. Absolutely. And so, no, I meant, like, sometimes I get the week wrong and then the record wrong.

Sometimes I'm like, you know, it's going to be week nine. It's going to be week nine. and the team's going to be one and 14. Like, I do that all the time. Oh, no, you got it wrong. Week 15, they would be six and seven. It doesn't. Right.

It's the thought that counts. I do the same thing every time. It's the thought that counts. Okay. But it would always be like, oh, it would be like the Fox game break. And it's like, Drew Brees through for 472 yards today. Moving on,

Christian Ponder in Minnesota. Yeah, that's, it really was like that for Matt Ryan. There was a couple really terrible games there at the end. I knew this as a Matt Ryan fantasy owner last year. You're just keeping tabs on it. He definitely took a dip, but his play in general was incredibly impressive. Yeah.

So let's get to our next team. You wanted this on here. I want to talk about it. I don't necessarily agree because I feel like it's not in the spirit of the exercise. Oh. But you had the New England Patriots. The spirit of the exercise that we made up at 6 p.m. last night. Hey, I don't think it's...

How dare I violate the sanctity of the thing I made up while I was at a gas station? Wow. That's how you feel about our brainstorming. sessions. Just on the phone at gas stations. I guess that's how it is now. Hey, I'm not going to talk and drive. That's good.

I'm glad you're looking out for your own well-being. That's good. All right, why the Patriots? Okay. Because I don't feel like they don't necessarily need a huge draft to put them over the top

because they're always over the top. That's what I'm saying. The Patriots are going to win the Super Bowl. I don't know how it's going to happen. But that's what I'm saying. That's why I don't think they fit in this thing. I don't know how it's going to happen, but the Patriots are going to win the Super Bowl.

and what we need to talk about right now is where they get receiving help from because they just lost Rob Grunkowski, FYI. Don't know if you saw that. Rob Grunkowski, no longer playing football. I did see that. I did see that. Okay, just very quickly, do you think Rob Grancowski is the greatest tight end ever?

I think he's the most talented tight end ever. Yeah. Okay. Do I think he's, I don't understand sort of the greatest arguments. I don't either. It's just like that's the best tight end I've ever watched. Like, if you were an alien. That's enough for me.

if you were an alien and you came down to Earth and someone said watch all these tight ends, he'd be number one. Yeah. And it's not exactly like he played two seasons. He caught 80 touchdowns and his playoff stats are like a full season that's like 90 catches for 1,300 yards and 12 touchdowns. He had an incredible career. So we can move on. But I just thought that that was a funny conversation early in the week.

All right. So receiving help is what you think. It was replaced by Cliff Kingsbury is giving millennials phones. That one was less fun for me. We love our news cycle, folks. We love it. So the reason I put the Patriots on here is because they need to find someone to catch the ball. I think that we have sort of glossed over Josh Gordon's contributions from last year.

And by the way, Chris Hogan. I mean, yes, Chris Hogan. I mean, they essentially lost Chris Hogan last year when he stopped playing well. That's fair. When he disappeared. He would just be in the middle of the field and just not, not play. He would disappear. We're taking that one step further because he's no longer on the roster.

That's all I'm saying. Right. But if you were, again, the alien test, if you were to show an alien, the Patriots last year, they would have guessed that Chris Hogan was not on the roster last year. I'll give you that. So they just have to figure out someone to catch the ball. Maybe that's in the second round. I don't know. Belichick has had some real bad receiver drafts.

Yes. Real bad. Aaron Dobson says hello. Chad Jackson. I think that's why they were so hungry for Adam Humphreys. Oh, yeah. Because they really like being able to get. get proven receiver help. Think about how many times they've either signed a guy or traded for

them. There haven't been that many drafted Patriots receivers that have made an impact in a little while. I mean, everyone, Malcolm Mitchell was supposed to be the next thing. Malcolm Mitchell is ridden off into the sunset. I know literally gone, quite literally gone. It's most of these guys have been acquired in some other way, whether it's Philip Dorset via trade, whether it's Brandon Cook's via trade, Josh Gordon via trade. They signed. signed Danny Amandoah. They signed Chris Hogan. It's been a very long time since an in-house Patriots receiver has made any sort of impact. Except James White.

Well, he's a running back. I'm aware, but he's also the greatest receiver in the history of playoff football. He was their best receiver for most of last season, so you're not wrong. Part of me wants to see the Patriots not get any playmakers and just see what Belichick does. But so that's kind of where I'm coming from with this. No, but they need, I mean, listen, Gronk was a corpse in the Super Bowl and he still basically made the biggest play of the game. Yeah, I know. I know.

I think they do need something. And that's why they, again, they were so hot after those slot receivers because they felt like they needed a guy like that. I'm sure now with Gromk gone, they're just going to have to address tight end. Thankfully for them, this is supposedly one of the best tight end drafts ever.

So I'm sure that's not an accident that they knew they didn't have to draft a tight end last season or have a Gronk replacement because they probably could have one right now. I need to talk about, sure, that's not an accident. I need to talk about the potential Grunkowski return. So he retires.

And then his agent just goes on television. And then aside from that, tells like 10 other people. Yeah, I mean, what is even retirement now? I guarantee you he comes back. November 15. He might come back.

It wasn't even like if he's feeling better. He might come back if the team is struggling or if Tom says, I really need you. That's all that matters. These are two very different things. Also, the Patriots just,

you know, start two and two all the time. That's true. It's their long game. They've done it for so long that they just don't want it to be out of the ordinary. So Grant comes back. It's absolutely going to happen. Belichess is going to tank the first eight weeks just so it comes back.

All right. So on offense, that's pretty much it, right? Their offensive line is set. This is what the Patriots do. They lose Trent Brown. Isaiah Winsteps in at left tackle. Again, nothing to see here. Receiving talent is what matters.

On defense, I really think that even with trading for Michael Bennett, which again, this is what the Patriots do. They lose trade flowers. They go trade for Michael Bennett. That's why they don't really have needs ever because they're so good at finding contingency plans. I still think they need a new, just kind of we draft them,

you sign them or trade for them, pass rusher. I think this is the draft where they need to make that happen because right now it's Derek Rivers, Dietrich Weiss. John Simon was a good kind of cheap signing. Sure. But I still feel like,

and they lost Adrian Claiborne. They need somebody in that mold just to throw in the rotation. even if it's not a highly drafted player. Hey, I have a Patriot story. Their secondary is stacked. I have a Patriot story. I was having dinner two nights ago, and Sean McVeigh was eating there.

And a group of kids, probably 11 years old, three of them, 10 to 10 to 12, that range, walk up with Sean McVeigh and say, we can get a picture with you. And he said, yes. And then in the middle of the picture, they just sort of get out. They take one picture with them, and they get out. then they just hand him a stuffed teddy bear with the Patriots jersey on.

Oh my God. And he just holds it and just is a total great sport and looks at the kids and says I'm doing this because I really like you guys. And it was the most charming thing. It was just... He just got owned by some 11-year-old kids.

I don't know what it was. I don't know what they were doing. He played it perfectly. He was completely unbothered. Somewhere on some phone, it's probably on some app I've never heard of, there is a photo of Sean McVeigh with the Patriot stuffed bear. Why did these kids, it was the middle of a very nice hotel. Why do these kids even have this? If they're from Boston, I guarantee you, it was just like a big

mean joke and they walked away being like this fucking guy. We got them. We got this guy. If they're from Boston, that's probably what it was. I don't think it was some cute thing where some kids were taking pictures with a teddy bear. Those kids learn how to be mean at like age six. I have no comment on that, but I do know that it was a very interesting situation and Sean McVeigh played it perfectly. Congratulations to everybody involved. What app is that being posted on?

I have no idea. I don't even know. I don't know what teams do anymore. No, I have no idea. Gen Z is beyond me. All right. Let's move on to your next team that you mentioned that,

again, a little bit of pushback from me. Oh, God. You wanted to talk about the Minnesota Vikings. Yeah. So here's my argument about the Minnesota Vikings and probably why they shouldn't be here. I think the Minnesota Vikings roster

is pretty stacked already. Minus like one spot. Minus one spot being the offensive line. Yeah, they could probably use a couple offensive linemen. So they signed Josh Klein. Which you'd, the tone you use there, I understand why, but that's a pretty big deal. No, no. Wait, what was the tone?

It's not like, oh, they signed Josh Klein, whatever. I didn't know, I didn't know I was being judged by the tone police here. I thought that's what you were getting at. Maybe not. What I was going to say was... understand the importance of Josh Klein. He's an adult. Yes. He'll stand there.

That matters for them. He'll stand there. I feel like they could use a, in the same way, in the same way the Colts were able to benefit obviously from an offensive line. Listen, they could use an upgraded offensive line. Yes. Getting Anthony Barr back, I think, changes everything. You know, Mike Zimmer said this.

I don't know if you saw it, Robert. He said that there was only one game last year where the offense did not game plan. around Anthony Barr. And that's one of those things where I think that a lot of time, coaches and players may be overrated a player, you know, that they're familiar with or whatever. Anthony Barr is not one of those. I think that there's,

I think people inside the building love him. Mike Zimmer loves him. One time, Mike Zimmer, I was out of Viking practice, and Mike Zimmer denied a report they were going to trade Anthony Barr and the report did not exist. Yeah. That's how much he loved him. And then the beat writers didn't know what he was talking about.

out. And so they had to write like Mike Zimmer knocks down mysterious Anthony Barr report. Honestly, though, that's why Anthony Barr came back. Because Mike Zimmer has this weird effect on guys where it's just this, you want to please your dad. Like, you want to just make sure that he's proud of you. I need to set this up. I need to set this up. Mike Zimmer held a press conference and was like, we're knocking this down. Anthony Barr is my guy. And not one person. Not one person had ever suggested this. It was amazing. He's very good at that. This is why I love Mike Zimmer, who just got extended, by the way, right?

He went out of his way to back up Anthony Barr when he was under no threat whatsoever. So, all right, let's get just a few more things here. I think that the Vikings have four legitimate starters along their offensive line as it currently stands. Okay. Brian O'Neill was a second round pick last year. Sure. I feel like he stepped in and played admirably. Pat offline and Riley Reef, it's an injury thing.

I think Reef was really banged up last year. I think he struggled as a result. he's never been great, but he was really bad last season. So you're looking at left guard with Collins. Correct. That is the spot that, or whatever you want to do, do you want to shift O'Neill inside and go draft a tackle? I think they have four starters.

However it shuffles around, we see that shit all the time. I don't like it, but we see it all the time. So I think if they get one more, they'll have five adults, as you said on the offensive line, and that's what's most important. So you don't, you did not want to put the Vikings in here, not necessarily from a roster construction standpoint, because you don't like Kirk Cousins.

Talk about it. That is not what I said. That's what you said. I think, I said, I think the thing might hold them back. I think what might hold them back, even with a very good roster, could be Kirk Cousins. That's what I'm saying.

Okay. I think there are other teams, again, if we're talking about the original impetus for doing this, the other teams that have done this in the past they've had that one home run draft and it's really helped them. They've been so set at quarterback. That's not been the element here. I could talk about how if the Bears got like a great whatever, it'd be awesome, but it doesn't

matter. It's the quarterback. Kirk Cousins is better than Mitchell Trebisky, but you get them saying. So that's to me, those are the teams that I would throw out first and Kirk Cousin isn't necessarily in that group of quarterbacks. Very quickly on defense, the two things I feel like they need are interior defensive line help. They got Shamar Steven back, but they need some more depth.

and I think that you're losing Shelton Richardson, they could use some pop just in those spots. They could also use some pass rushing depth because they don't really have much right now. Weatherly is fine, but you bring in another guy. And then this is the same thing every year with this team. I would not be surprised if they drafted a cornerback in the first round. McKenzie Alexander is a free agent next year.

They have already said they wanted to trade, Trey Wains. Mike Hughes steps into that spot. If they picked a high cornerback, it would not surprise me at all. It's become a punchline at this point, but it would not shock me. All right. Wait, hold on.

I'm not done yet. All right. I have a couple things to say. Throw it out there. Number one is that Xavier Rhodes is like maybe on the block, right? I mean, Mike Zimmer threw it out there this week that he needed to play better. No, but I also, I feel like I read that somewhere and I don't, don't, if nobody read it anywhere, I don't, don't source it to me. Okay, so a couple things.

Number one, I deeply believe in Kirk Cousins. Okay. I think he played better than last year than other people did. I don't think he's Aaron Rogers here, but I just think he's good enough to get you to an NFC championship game. I'm with you there. I can do that. Riscilla asked me how the Kirk Cousins era will be remembered. And I said it will be remembered pretty well. And at one point over the three years, they'll make an NFC title game. And that's it. And to be clear, though, I mean, they did that with Case Keenum. So it's not like it's climbing Mount Everest here. The other point I want to make is I just want to lose. around on that defensive line thing because the Colts is something really interesting, which is that they got obviously Justin Houston and they want to play eight guys on their line. They want to cap the snap percentage

about 60% for the defensive line. We've talked about this as far as how Seattle set the tone earlier in the decade with a real true, you know, deep rotational line. The Eagles do it now. That's how you win now. That's how you win. And I totally agree.

I think the front, you know, the, the, the, The Vikings defense is very top heavy, but I'm just not totally in on the depth there. I think every team, I did the team needs for Danny's draft guide earlier this week. It's coming out later this week. Pretty much every single team. I was like, and they could probably use another guy in the defensive line. I mean, every single team could use one or two more guys outside of like the Eagles.

And honestly, dude, every team could use a cornerback. Yeah. And honestly, every team could use another safety because so many teams are using those big nickel packages on third down. that three or four safeties are necessary now, not just two or three. So just how you build your depth, I feel has shifted in recent years. I think that's why teams have to look at,

one, your needs and two, what kind of draft as we are would put them over the top. All right, one more real fast here. Let's talk about the San Francisco 49ers because that is another team that has a very expensive quarterback right now. And also, by the way,

they have the second pick in the draft. And they have the second pick in the draft. So what are the positions you're looking at for the Niners that you feel would be just conducive to them, really taking a step forward and becoming a wildcar team in the NFC, a team that could push the Rams, whatever. Sure. I mean, it really, in my opinion, is just adding fuel to the fire. If they get Quinn and Williams,

maybe they trade down, get Quinn and Williams somewhere there. Maybe they just take Nick Bosa. I think they just do it. You just take Bosa too? Yeah. If you think he's the guy, then I think you I think you do it. Unless, unless the crazy thing happens where either the Niners or the Cardinals don't take Murray at one and take someone else, or you have a team giving you a call about the number two pick that wants Haskins. Sure.

If that happens, then I think you trade down and figure it out because you need a lot of defensive players. Sure. Do you believe the Kylo and Murray thing that they're taking him one? Yeah. No, I still don't. I hear it too much. It's suspicious.

I still don't believe it. I think they're trying to pump up the value for that number of one pick. It's so out there that it's suspicious. You can't walk down the street without hearing it. I wrote about it this week. I feel like you have to look at the value lost. It's about opportunity cost. It's not just Josh Rosen or Kyler Murray.

You traded the 15th pick, I think the 72nd pick and like the 150th pick last year. That's three picks. It's not just that. It's what could you get in a trade for Kyler Murray in the number one pick right now if you're Arizona. The last time a team came from outside the top five to number one, it was Philadelphia. And what Philadelphia had to give up, Philadelphia and the Rams in the same draft.

But what Philadelphia had to give up was a third round pick, a fourth round pick, a second round pick later, and a first round pick later. That's a lot of picks. And if you're trying to rebuild your team, then I feel like it's worth considering that and just saying Josh Rosen plus all of that we can work with. Maybe that's not what they're going to do, and maybe Kyler Murray is so good that you'd say,

fuck it, we're taking them and we're going to figure it out later. But I still feel like you have to consider what that first pick is worth and that you have a quarterback that you'd have to sell off for pennies right now. I have no idea what's going to happen. Again, it's,

I've never been around a rumor like this Kyloor Murray thing. I still feel like they're going to, everyone says they know that he's going number one to the Cardinals. it may be the right choice. I think he's that good, but I still am apprehensive about it. Because if you're Steve Kime, right, and you're on the hot seat right now,

and Kyler Murray works, you're not getting credit for taking him number one. You had the number one pick. He was the best player. Cliff Kingsbury is getting credit for taking him number one. What is going to happen to you is you were the guy who took Josh Rosen 10th overall last season

and they had to trade him for his second round pick because he didn't work out. You're also the guy that hired a coach and fired him after one year. Everything about what's been dysfunctional about the Cardinals is going to go on your shoulders and everything about what Kyler Murray does well

is going to be attributed to Cliff Kingsbury. If your owner is fine with that and you have an understanding, go for it. Godspeed. But I just feel like the optics of it are so bad and optics are such an underrated part

of why these decisions get made. I saw someone at the owner's meetings and they were like, you see Steve Kime yet? I was like, no. And they were like, well, it might be awkward because you've been

really mean to him on the Simmons pot and elsewhere. So I didn't even think I was being mean to Steve Kime. I'm just going through what he did. I'm not trying to be mean about Steve Kime. I'm just listing the stuff he's done in the last four years. And the draft picks he hasn't hit on and the team he's built that isn't very good. Their biggest issue in my mind is that they really, really, really didn't have a plan when Ariens and Palmer were going to go.

They were not ready. That team was built as such for to win in that moment. In 15, they had a chance to win it. They almost did. And then in 16, they thought they were going to go out again. And then it was a very quick reset. And they were not set up to do that. That is the fault of team building.

I mean, that is not, no one was without blame there. But it still is an interesting situation when you lose your head coach very quickly and have to start over. When you go all in on veterans, not only at, you know, a quarterback, but with the coaching staff, you have to have those guys. You know, I remember talking to Ariens. You have to have these guys behind them. I remember talking to Ariens

for three or four years ago. And one of the things that they had on staff was they had really, really, really veteran coaches. One of their assistant defensive line coaches. Tom Pratt, he's one of my favorite people. Yeah, he coached in Super Bowl one, okay? He coached in Super Bowl one. And then was a coach of the 2014,

2015 Cardinals, okay? but what the method of the madness was with Ariens was he would pair those guys. Tom Moore was another one. He'd pair those guys with someone he was trying to develop. And when you listen to Ariens talk about this plan, and it's, okay, we're going to have Tom, proud of coach, Super 1, we're going to have Tom Moore, who's seen it all,

but they're going to be paired with a 35-year-old coach. They're going to be paired with a 30-year-old coach on the same position group. They're going to run the ropes. We're going to have a nice system here. When you listen to Ariens talk, it seemed like they were going to be good for the next 15 years because there was almost going to be like,

you know, like a company, right? Like, we're grooming our next guy. And we're grooming our next guy. And then it got into a situation where they just didn't have anything. Well, also, they hired Steve Wilkes. Yes. And that's a whole different conversation. All right, before we get to D.K. here, let's talk about the Niners.

Just let's run through the players we think they need. So with San Francisco, to me, it's a number one just monster receiver. I mean, they have Dante Pettis. They have Marquis good one. I feel like those guys are nice pieces. I think Petit is going to be really good. Should they have traded for Odell Beckham? Should they've traded the second overall pick for O'D Beckham?

Yeah, probably. Yeah, I think so too. But again, there's so many complications there. I love their playmakers outside of having that number one guy. I think having Coleman, McKinnon, Matt Prida, George Kittle, Garrett Selwick is a solid just number two blocking tight end. I think that Goodwin is a top off the defense guy. Pettis is somebody working in the underneath areas, the field.

If they go get, I don't know how good DK Mac Gaff is going to be, but somebody of that mold that's just like, all right. I mean, they have the second overall pick. So that's going to be tough. But even if it's somebody like... I'm looking more in the pick 36. Sure. I mean, and maybe that I don't know.

People love Akeem Butler. I don't know if he's going to go higher than that. But it just feels like if they get a big outside receiver to really bring that offense together, they can be really good. So on offense, I think they're close. Their line is pretty much set on defense. They went out and filled their biggest need, which was pass rusher. And they went and got D. Ford.

I still think they could use another one if they want to go get Nick Bosa. They needed somebody next to Fred Warner. They got Juan Alexander. Their biggest issue to me right now is outside of the front seven. And it's the secondary because they need Jason Verrett to work out desperately because O'Keele-Wetherspoon was very not good last year. They could use an upgraded safety, which is why we used, was mentioning Earl Thomas in connection with them the entire off season. So if they can get pass rushing help early, maybe a running a wide receiver in round two and then hit on a corner in round three or something like that, I think that's the type of equation where you could say, all right, they're really cooking now.

I would love someone like Miles Boykin there. Sure. So you some of, yeah, I think people love him. That's another one. I love him. That's another one where it's just quarterback play. I don't know about the value about getting a guy like that at 36. You didn't have a lot of production, but the measurables are obviously there.

The NFL.com comparison is Kenny Gallaudet. Oh, I love Kenny Gallaudet. Again, who went the third round. I love a guy like that. That's what matters. I would stay. I'm not. I might stick out that I'm anti-DK.

That's fine. I said that right when the testing came out. I want to be clear on this. I'm not anti-DK. Metcalf in general. I'm anti-DK. Metcalfe, like, eighth overall. Everything I've heard and the things I've watched, we'll talk about the receivers,

another show with D.K., but he, Keen Butler seems to be sticking out, man. I'm starting to like him. Yeah. It's some real good skill guys in this draft. And that's why it's so interesting when we talk about all the teams that need those skill guys.

They're there. They're there. And that's why I think that it's going to be really interested to see who falls where. All right. We're going to get Danny in here now. Before we get to DK, we're going to take a quick break. Whether you need textbook solutions or expert Q&A, there is no better tool to help you ace your class than Chegg's study.

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For $5 off your first month's subscription, go to Chegg. C-H-E-G-com slash NFL and use promo code NFL. That's Chegg. C-H-E-G-G-com slash NFL and use promo code NFL for $5 off your first month's subscription. And we are very pleased now to welcome our draft guru, Danny Kelly, to the show. DK., how you doing, bud? I'm doing excellent.

How are you guys doing? I'm doing great. I'm excited to talk draft for the first time because we haven't. And I love the NFL draft. And you know way more about it than I do. There's one month, approximately one month until the draft, you guys. I know. It makes me nervous.

Yeah, I'm excited. I definitely am excited. It makes you nervous. There's a lot of work to do between now and that. I think that's why it makes me nervous. It's a lot of stuff that I have to do. I feel you on that. I mean, there's so many guys in the draft.

I'm so far we got, we're going to have an update next week for 64 players. I'm trying to get to 100 before the draft. So the time, the clock is ticking. I will be contributing to the draft guide for the first time next week. I'm very excited about it. I know, that's awesome.

Team needs. I've learned a lot about every team's depth chart, which I hope came across in the first segment of this show because I took a lot of time doing it. But I was happy to because the work you've done in the draft is fantastic. and we wanted to really dig into some of the players on each of these shows. So we're going to start with the quarterbacks because I feel like that's the place where

every draft conversation should start. Right. So from the time you've done this, Danny, from time you started until right now, who would you say is the quarterback that you've kind of started to appreciate more, who's standing in your mind has kind of gone up more than any other quarterback in this draft? Well, I have to admit that early in the process, I was a little bit worried about Kyler Murray's size. Okay. And to be honest, when I started, he wasn't even sure if he was going to play.

Like, there was still talk about him playing baseball. And it was kind of like he was, I think, you know, when I started studying, he was, people were more or less assuming he wasn't going to play football. So to me, he's the one that's gone up the most. I think I started him out somewhere in my 20s. Now he's at, I don't even know, like 10 right now for me. I still worry a little bit about his lack of size, not necessarily the height so much, but just his frame overall. in the long term. But he's grown on me so much in his ability to move around in the pocket.

Got a really strong arm, really accurate. And I just think overall, he's my favorite quarterback in this class. There's a lot of caveats that go along with the evaluation of him. But I just think he's got the biggest upside. He's going to be a really, really dynamic player.

I really hope he lands in Arizona. Are the caveats all size-related or something else? Well, mostly a size-related, I would say. and then there's a couple other ones. One, he's relatively an experience, one main season of starting, which is kind of, you know, that's typically not a good. Right.

The other thing is, I think you have to somewhat take into account, like the terrible interview that he did with Dan Patrick, like right before he decided to play football. Like, to me, that was a little weird. So that's what, like, really, really far down the list of things to caveat, but, like, that was pretty weird, to be honest. I feel like he acquitted himself quite nicely at the combine.

I don't have many questions about his personality. His attitude towards football, let's say. I think that's fair. I get to these guys a little bit late every year again because free agency comes first and everything else. So I watched him really in depth for the first time recently. And my takeaway from watching him was, was there really a moment where we didn't think this guy was the best quarterback?

It's not even just the running ability, which is so dynamic. but his ball placement and every level of the field is just remarkable. I was watching the Oklahoma State game and I watched the Kansas game also today and his arm strength and the ability to kind of put the ball

on the sideline behind the corner and in front of the safety with accuracy and outside where his guy is the only guy that can get it is unbelievable. And there are a lot of several of those balls that I saw were dropped. And in the NFL,

when you have guys that are better at navigate, the sideline, all of that stuff, those are catches. And to think that there were plays left on the field for a guy who averaged 11.6 yards per attempt or something crazy like that is nuts, but they really were. And I just, there were so many throws he made where I was like, this dude is just absolutely ridiculous. And I think my favorite thing is we watch him in the pocket, he does not look to run.

Totally. He is going through every single option as a passer before he pulls the ball down and goes, unless it's on design runs, which are devastating when they use them. So there's all of those things, the arm strength, the accuracy, the awareness,

the mobility, both inside and outside the pocket, those things are just undeniable when I watch him. To me, it would be more so, does he understand how to avoid contact

because that frame is very slight and I'm worried about him getting hurt? So the thing that I've been thinking about when I've been evaluating him and just, you know, as a Seahawks fan, the pocket passing question has been such a big part

of Russell Wilson's career, obviously Murray gets compared to Wilson at times. They're about the same size at the combine, all that. I've been thinking about this, the differentiation between throwing from behind the pocket and throwing from in the pocket. Because you can have a guy drop back, you know, seven steps or roll out a little bit.

He's still somewhat in the pocket, but he's really more behind the pocket than in the pocket with guys all around you. What I like about Murray is he actually can step up into the pocket, manipulate the pocket, kind of slide around, move around, find a throwing lane, and throw from the pocket. I think that's really important. And it's the same deal with like Drew Breeze, his ability to manipulate throwing lanes. That's why he can do it at six foot tall. I think that's the same way. Yeah, exactly. And so I think to me that that is really, really important. I see that on tape.

You know, I think he can develop in that. Obviously, he's, like I said, he's not, he's not, he doesn't have a ton of experience as a starter. But just the things that I see from that, I think that's really important, his ability to step him in the pocket, not look down at the past rush and kind of of keep a play alive, keep, you know, keep his eyes downfield, make a throw. So I think that's a really good point to kind of transition here, because when I watch Haskins, and I watched some games early in the season, I probably should have watched some that happened a little bit later because I read some stuff that he really kind of developed this as the season went along.

Yeah, absolutely. But it felt to me, like when I watched him early in the year, that he didn't do a lot of that. He did a lot of throwing from behind the pocket because he doesn't really have, he didn't really have a good field or he didn't really want to step up into traffic and really make some throws and drive the ball down the field. I don't know if that changed, but when I watched him, you can see so many traits that you like, but I didn't like that, especially early in the season. Maybe he got better at that, and that's what I want to know. Is that something that changed over the course of the year? I think it absolutely did, yeah. I think that was something that he definitely

developed his ability to go through reads and do all the pre-snap stuff too, I think, became much more apparent late in the season. His ability to read a defense. He had a couple of plays. I noted that he really used a good shoulder, like, head fake, ball fake to get the defense to bite before going deep. But yeah, I definitely think his ability to kind of slide around in the pocket showed up later in the season a lot better.

And I compared him to, he kind of just reminds me of Nick Foles a little bit in the sense that he's not going to be very good. on the move necessarily. He's much more of a prototypical pocket passer. Like, he's not going to win the Super Bowl. Yeah, he's always going to do is win Super Bowl. He, by the way, he's incredibly immobile. It's almost impressive how little he can move outside of the tackle box,

which that doesn't matter. Like Tom Brady probably would run a 6.540 right now. He's the best pocket manipulator of all time. So that's, it's not important. I just was really, I always knew that he was just a prototivist. typical pocket passer, but watching it and really digging in, I was like, oh, he just does not want to move around. He looks really, yeah, he looks labored, is what I think.

The way I phrased it when he's trying to throw on the run, he really needs to have a good set. So when he throws on time and when he has good balance and everything, I think he has, you know, you can see why, you know, the elite, like, traits or whatever is his ball placement, the big arm, everything like that. But the one thing I would say that worries him about, worries me about. about him is just his ability to, you know, improvise and move off his spot and make plays off his spot. But like you said, I mean, some quarterbacks, that's just not their game. I think that's

what Haskins is going to have to be in the NFL. So, you know, he's going to have to, he too, he's another guy that has, you know, only one year of starting experience. So, you know, he's going to be developing in the NFL, his ability to, you know, read a defense and set protections, do all that stuff. But his game is definitely going to be from the pocket. I mean, because I just don't think he's just not very good, like, moving around, throwing the wall on that stuff. If it's from the pocket, that's fine. As long as he can navigate the pocket. And from what you said, if that really developed more in the second half of the season,

and again, is one year as a starter from a game. I watched a TCU game today and I think one other game today. The TCU game was a third game of the season. And he's just sitting there seven yards deep and really just not moving at all. Just a refusal to step up. And so if you feel like that has really progressed from the start of the season to the end, think about how important that progression is. when you only have one season.

I think that would definitely encourage some people. He made a throw in that TCU game boy, the one down the field inside the five that was up the scene where I was just like, holy shit. I mean, like that when you watch that throw, you can understand why people would fall in love with them. And that's beyond just how good of a point guard he is on shorter throws and kind of using running the offense.

Just the overall talent plus the ability to kind of step in and be the guy who runs the show, I think that's why people are impressed by him. If somebody decided to move up and take him at two, Would it surprise you and do you think it would be a wrong choice? No, that wouldn't surprise me at all. I mean, I kind of got him penciled in. Okay, so if you just go through the thing,

I think Kyler's going to go out at number one. I guess the next team, someone who could either trade up or you could say that maybe the Raiders are going to be interested. You know, there's been some whispers that they're looking at all the quarterbacks and they're interested in quarterbacks. So that's the team you'd want to get ahead of, right? I mean, San Francisco doesn't want to move down. The Raiders are in firmly in the Tyson zone.

100%. I have no, every, I hear a different Raiders rumor every day and I'm just like, absolutely. But if the Raiders traded like four picks to move up from four to one to take Kyler, you wouldn't be surprised at all. No. You just be like, yep, that sounds right. I probably should have figured that was coming. I mean, that's, they're right. They're firmly in it.

I'm with you coming. The other part of it, like the biggest, I guess, clue for me is just what they've done with the receivers this year. Yes. The deep threats they have at receiver just doesn't really seem to match up with the quarterback. have right now. So. I said it the day it happened. Yeah. As soon as they traded for Antonio Brown, I feel like that was when Derek Carr, it was all over.

Why would you want Derek Carr throwing to Antonio Brown? And Tyro Williams? Yeah, yeah. It's just, it's like, if you had a Ferrari and you just were like driving it around your neighborhood. It just makes absolutely no sense. Yeah. So I see, I see the radar.

Robert. Just like on the highway. Like, it just opened that thing up a little bit. I think about it. I think of the only drive Ferraris in like open. error. Like they don't, you don't really want it around other cars. That's what I mean, though. But like the mountains. Why would you like, well, that's fine, wherever. Somewhere that's not your neighborhood going 10 miles an hour. That's what I'm saying. All right. So let's get to the one

other guy who is kind of been put in this category where it's a top 10 potential pick, everything else. If Drew Locke goes like seventh overall, Danny, how on a scale of one to 10, how hard are you laughing? Because I know you don't like him. Probably like in the eight range. I just think it would be typical. Oh, I think it's going to happen 100%. Yeah, it seems like it. He is the exact type of guy that goes like ninth or tenth overall. The exact type of guy.

Absolutely. I think so he's the exact prototype of the type of quarterback teams talk themselves into every season. Jay Collar, the smoke-free Jay-Coller is a great comparison. He really does remind me of Jay Cutler a lot. Like not just because of- Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Guys, let's back up. If Jay Culler's career was just available in the draft,

we knew it, we knew who he was, we knew what his peak was, wouldn't he be a top 10 pick? Absolutely, he would. Okay, then what's the issue? I don't think it's an issue. I don't have a problem with it. Danny does not like Jay Culler.

Or Danny does not like Drewlock. I, I'm of the opinion that Drew Locke has incredible traits and his footwork is garbage. And if you have a little bit better coaching and put him in a little bit better of constraints, he can be a good quarterback.

I have talked myself into Drew Locke in the same way some team will. So, okay, well, didn't you feel like you were a little bit in quarterback purgatory when Jake Hutter was a quarterback, though? But that's why I was okay with him giving him the extension because I don't want to walk away from that level of quarterback play and into the abyss. I think if you're paying Drew Locke, a rookie quarterback salary for four years or five years with a rookie with a fifth year option, I'm okay with that. I think he makes some throws, man.

That one throw he made in the Florida game. right at the pile on. Just, I mean, the throws he can make and ball placement outside the numbers, it's not, people are making the Josh Allen comparison a little bit. And I don't see that because I think he's accurate occasionally. I think he's way more accurate, way more often than Josh Allen was last year. To me, it's just the maddening inconsistency. It's not a consistent struggle with accuracy.

If that makes sense. Yeah, no, totally. I don't, I need to go back to Jay Cutler here for a second. he was not consistent he was a bit of a gunslinger but he wasn't Blake Bordels he wasn't Blake Bordels he wasn't I watched him for almost a decade

Danny I'm with him here like he was you know I don't even know Nathan Peterman Danny's putting him in the Peterman zone but Drew Locke to me Drewlock's upside is Jay Cutler

and his downside he has a much lower floor because he's so inconsistent I think Mays is right on the button like he'll have the he'll have it's the same like the reason he reminds me of color is he'll have like these really great throws he's very athletic whatever but at the same time

he'll make atrocious decisions and he'll have these bouts where he just thinks he you know he thinks he he trusts his arm too much in the sense that he'll throw off balance he's kind of like got the the Aaron Rodgers tape probably thing like you know just

get set and throw it instead of trying to throw off your back foot and all that. So I still a little bit worried about it. I mean, I got him in my top, I think, 50 right now. So it's not like I hate him. But 50 and him going seventh overall, Danny, are two very different things. And that's the conversation. That's the spirit of this conversation. Hey, Danny, if you were to assign him to watch tape of any current NFL player, who would it be?

Because the thing is funny, because no one should ever watch Rogers tape or Mahomes tape. Right, exactly. because you're not going to be able to do that. Like Alex Smith? I think, well, yeah. Or something. I think it's more conservative. Yeah.

I just think it's in terms of footwork and what you want to do. Matt Ryan. That's his biggest issue. Matt Ryan's a good one too. His biggest issue, Locke's biggest issue by far. Decision making is a problem, but it's footwork. His feet are just a mess. And when his feet are a mess, that's when he struggles.

But if you have somebody that can clean that up just a little bit, I think you get a really good quarterback because he's not inaccurate when everything is working in, So here's the litmus test that we've talked about in the past. Like put him in, put him in Sean McVeigh's offense. I think that could be really good. You know what I mean? Yes.

But Goff went number one. So, I mean, I don't know. I don't know where he deserves to go. I personally would be really nervous about taking him in the top 10. But that doesn't mean his potential isn't, you know, he does, I think, have that, like, ceiling or whatever. So he's an interesting one to me. I actually, you guys brought up Josh, Josh Allen. I think Daniel Jones reminds me of Josh Allen more than Drew Locke does.

Okay, let's talk about Daniel Jones very quickly because the Giants, it came out this week. I can't remember who reported it and apologies to me or apologies to that person, but the Giants apparently like Daniel Jones a little bit. Maybe Adam Schaefter said that. But I'm, I'm, that's a good sign. I don't, I don't like it at all day. Sounding alarm. You know what Daniel Jones, you know what?

But here's what Daniel Jones. reminds me of because Josh Allen would just throw the ball wherever. Daniel Jones is not a good pastor down the field. Daniel Jones reminds me of a 6-5 receiver that plays 5-11. Yeah, I was just going to say, like, his downfield accuracy is very worrisome to me. People who, you know, maybe in the short and intermediate areas, he's a little more accurate, but watching him throw deep, I just don't get it. I just, I can't see it. He looks like a quarterback in the sense that he's like got the frame. He's got the athleticism. That's actually what reminded me more of

Josh Allen's that he can actually run. He's a really good runner. There's a couple of games where he would, you know, they had to an RPO offense or whatever and so he would keep a couple times and he could like break away from the defense. He ran like a 4-640 this week. Right. He's athletic.

But he's also really, really scattershot deep, deep. And that's exactly why I likened him to Josh. I think Josh Allen has more natural like arm talent or whatever you want to call it. they're both really inaccurate. That's my other concern with Daniel Jones watching him now. Apparently he broke his collarbone at some point

and it's affected his delivery. He really winds up. He has got a big elongated windup. And when you don't have the biggest cannon in the world, you can't throw like that. And he does not have it. His arm town's fine. He can make some throws.

But he does not have the type of arm, I think, that can overcome how he throws the ball. Definitely. That's the difference between him and, Haskins has a snappy quick release. And that's huge in the NFL. I mean, if you're late in the NFL, you're going to throw so many interceptions.

And so, yeah, that's, I think the top, like, well, the first round discussion for Dana Jones to me is, is kind of crazy. And then the other guy that people kind of had thrown around before the draft and is kind of a name that people had mentioned just because of his success in the league, or a success in college, excuse me, was Will Greer from West Virginia. I, watching him, I know that, I think, you sure are the same feelings.

I just, I don't see it. He's a backup at best. So he is the kind of guy who I think, so my comp for him is Ryan Fitzpatrick. And I say that actually, I say that because he was really, really good deep passer. Like incredibly accurate.

He had more touchdowns on deep passes this season than anyone in the country per PFF. Really, really good deep passer. That's like his bread and butter, confident, smooth, whatever. Incredibly confident. He'll throw it anywhere at any time, I kind of love.

So, like, if you put him in, like, Todd Monkin's offense, I could actually see him having some good numbers and everything. But at the same time, you're going to have the deal where he's going to turn the ball over. He's not as accurate in the intermediate and short area. And then the thing is, when he gets moved off his spot, everything falls apart. So he's kind of the same deal as Haskins, the sense that you need him to throw from the pocket on time or else it's terrible. And so he's an interesting one to me. I think you're right, though.

he's a backup in the NFL. But in the right system, Todd Monkin or whatever, something air-rady, I think he could, you know, maybe surprise some people, but I think that's a huge if.

I don't like him in the first round. I think he's a second or third round, you know, backup type guy. He's such a fascinating case because there's such a difference. People think that arm strength means being able to throw the ball

down the field, but arm strength is not necessarily being a deep passer. Like, he does not have that good of arm strength, but he's a very good deep passer. Yeah. That is possible.

And he's the perfect example of how it's possible. He's got that weird little release, and he doesn't get that much juice on the ball. But when you're really winding up and shucking it, it's a different story. He's a weird quarterback. He does a very good touch. And that's a huge part of being a deep passer.

And everyone says he is a great locker room guy, everything else. I think he'll be in the league for 15 years. I just don't think he'll ever be a very good starting quarterback. Another guy I've heard him compared to is Case Keenham. And I think there you go. I think those are two pretty, like Fitzpatts. and Keenham are, I think, his ceiling. And so he's interesting for sure.

I wouldn't take him in the first round. But yeah, he's another guy to kind of keep in mind. All right, buddy. I think that's all we got. Guys, thank you so much for listening. We will be back next week with again, another kind of wide-ranging topic about the NFL draft from the NFL side. And then we will chat with DK about some of the prospects.

We haven't decided what position yet. We will do that over the next couple of days. I'll watch a couple of these guys and see what's interesting. Casey, I got to have a lot of the best. anything else to add? Everybody read Danny Kelly's draft guy. Yes, please do that. Now bolstered with teen needs from Robert Mays, it's must read.

DK is an elite draft guru. Please read that. As always, Danny does really good work. We will have NFL draft stuff coming to you over the next couple weeks. So be back and check that out. And for now, we will just talk to you later.