The Ringer NFL Show - NFL Free Agency Winners and Losers (So Far)

Episode Date: March 11, 2025

Sheil, Steven, and Diante get together to discuss all of the high-profile moves that happened during the NFL’s official tampering period ahead of the start of free agency this week. They begin their conversation by talking about some of the teams and players who have already done the most to improve their status. After the break, they shine a light on some of the more disappointing moves that happened over the weekend, and talk about ways those entities can eventually right their ship (24:37). Finally, the crew scans the rest of trades and signings around the league and debates whether they were ultimately good deals or bad deals (56:28). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia, Steven Ruiz, and Diante Lee Producer: Chris Sutton Social: Kiera Givens Production Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When you hear the word Seattle Supersonics, what comes to mind? Maybe it's Sean Kemp, The Rain Man, or Gary Payton, the glove, or maybe an image of a tall and skinny 19-year-old rookie, Kevin Duran. For fans in Seattle, it's something else. It's tragedy. It's theft. An iconic team with an incredible fan base that packed its bags and shipped off for Oklahoma City. From Spotify and The Ringer, I'm Jordan Ritter-Con.

and in my podcast, Sonic Boom, I talk to players, politicians, owners, and fans about how Seattle lost the Sonics. You can listen to it on the book of basketball feed beginning March 13th on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. To the Ringer NFL show, Shield Capadia here with Deonté Lee and Stephen Ruiz. We are recording this early Monday evening

with a flurry of deals in the NFL signings. trades, you name it. We're going to get to all of it. And who knows? As we record this, Aaron Rogers has not signed anywhere. Russell Wilson has not signed it. So maybe, maybe there'll be a trade. We could get some breaking news here, Ruiz, which is always exciting during the podcast. Yeah, it is. And today is like, today was a weird day for me. I always have to like recalibate, recalibrate my brain after the salary cap takes a huge spike and really put these deals into context when you see like an Aaron Banks making 77 million, you're like, oh, whoa, where did that come from?

It really feels like an NBA free agency this year where some guy that you barely heard of just made like $20 million. It became generationally wealthy. It's, I said, Deante, before we came on, that I do my top 50. And when a guy who doesn't make the top 50 makes like over $15 million per year,

I'm like, all right, either I really screwed up there or that's a bad deal. So I guess we'll get to some of those during this episode. Yeah, I think that in, specific to this recruiting, not those recruiting class, this free agency class, you can probably bank on the fact that if a guy didn't make the top 50 in your list and got more than like $12 million a year, it's probably an eyebrow razor for the wrong reasons for whatever team parted with that much money to bring a guy in. We'll get to all of it. We're going to start out

by just doing, let's zoom out a little bit, a winner and a loser from what we've seen so far here in free agency again. This is the negotiating period, so we could get one of those surprises. I feel like there's one a year. We're on Tuesday or Wednesday. It's like, nope, even though this player agreed to terms during the negotiating period, they're backing out or something happened and they're back on the market. So that's just the disclaimer that none of these deals, unless it's somebody who got released or someone who signed with their own team, these deals are not official. So we're going to get to some winners and losers. Then we're just going to play a little good deal or bad deal, kind of speed around, run through a bunch of the big deals that were signed or agreed to so far.

and we're going to give kind of quick hitting thoughts on what we thought of them. And since we last recorded, there have been some trades. There have been some other things going on. So we're going to get to those as well. We're going to forget something. Okay, but don't worry. We'll be back soon again. And you can yell at us for forgetting it.

And then we'll get to it the next time. But let's start with winners and losers. I guess let's start with winners. We will be positive. Deante, you want to lead us off a winner so far in free agency. You know, it's funny to think about with all the money that's been flying around, I think that it's easy to just look at big spenders

and a media sap on the tag. Like, oh, you covered your need, you're going into the draft, ready to get, you know, the quote-unquote or the mythical best player available. And it's easy to kind of classify teams as winners in that regard. I try to look at teams that just make smart moves to cover clear holes, clear weaknesses,

because those are the teams that usually make the incremental gains that you're looking for in free agency. So to me, that's the Bears. If you look at, if you're able to kind of zoom out and just look at the last week for them, you part with two day three picks and $14 million a year to bring in Jude Downman. And now basically the only real weakness that you have, you could argue is their left tackle, right? And I still think like Brexon Jones has proven himself to be capable at different points in times in his career. He's not a plus tackle in any respect.

But I think if you eliminate the clear holes they had on the interior, I think it puts less pressure on he and Darnell right to be. the Joe Alt and Ray Sean Slater that like Los Angeles has where they're able to lock down so much that it makes their interior offensive line not be as big of an issue. I like that for Caleb Williams. I think that there are questions maybe about what Dolman's going to look like in Ben Johnson's scheme. I would be hesitant to make any assumptions

at what they do in the run game or in the dropback passing game for that matter is going to be exactly what we saw in Detroit. Stephen and I worked on like the anatomy of Blake Haller, you know, the kind of the etymology, I would say, of just like how these play-calling trees end up spreading out across the league. And one thing about Ben Johnson that we both were harping on is that he's been everywhere as terms of scheme, in terms of philosophy. So there are a lot of openings for, you know,

them to do different things on the offensive end. So we might see Chicago come out and be a total shotgun drop-back game. It might be undershinter outside zone. There's really no telling. But I do think the one thing that was a big priority for them was addressing their offensive line. And they did that. You bring in Grady Jarrett on a one year kind of prove it that deal.

You bring in Daio Aririanba on a similar kind of cheaper deal to just kind of, I think, build out the rest of that pass rushing room. I don't think it's going to be magnificent, but I think that it's passable. And right now for them in the trenches, they just needed to get to a passable, functional about league average level. And I think they definitely took some big steps towards that over the last week. Yeah, it feels like they're one of the teams that learned a lesson from how the league kind of played out last year and how the season played out last year where the teams that were

better in the trenches tended to dominate. And that was one area where they were just, maybe one of the worst teams in the NFL, especially on the offensive side. And I think they're building around not only Ben Johnson's scheme, but also their quarterback who is a little bit shorter. And like going back to like those Saints teams with Drew Breeze, Sean Payton always made a point to have a good interior offensive line. So if that quarterback, that shorter quarterback does have to step up in the pocket. There is a pocket to step up into. Too often last year there wasn't a pocket for Caleb Williams to step up into.

And that's why you saw him escape outside, out the back door so many times. I think when you watched him play and he was provided a pocket, he hung in there for the most part. If anything, he held on to the ball too long and hung into the pocket too long. So I totally agree. I think this is not only building up the offensive line so Ben Johnson can run his run games, it also helps out the second year quarterback. Yeah, I actually had Caleb Williams as my winner for this section.

I can get to a backup here in a second. But let me be clear. I don't know if this plan is going to work out. You know, Jonah Jackson was benched last year. Joe Tuni is in his, he's what, 32, 33 years old. He wants to get paid at the end of his deal. Yeah, Drew Dalman, like there seems to be. I have not grinded the Drew Dalman tape.

I don't know if he's going to be a great center for them or not. He has been a competent player. So I'm not saying this is it. They nailed it. We could be here in week six of next season going. We thought they upgraded their offensive line, but it still has some holes. However, I like the process. I like that they had a plan.

They're saying, you know, if you're Caleb Williams, you got Ben Johnson now as your play caller. You've got three veteran offensive linemen on the interior. You have a chance. You have wide receivers. Again, they might not be elite wide receivers, but you have some past catching options as well. There is an infrastructure there where we should be. to get a better gauge on what Caleb Williams can be as an NFL quarterback, all sort of the bad habits and weird games and ups and downs from last year. This feels a lot more stable to me.

And I think this is what you wanted to see if you were a Bears fan. You just want to see, let's give our quarterback a chance. We've got so much invested in him. And so I think they did this. And Drew Dolman, I think, 14 million per year. He didn't get some, you know, crazy deal where we'll get to some of these other deals that we'll talk about. And then, you know, they got creative. with the other two moves. Again, I'm not positive they're going to work out. But like last year at this time, Jonah Jackson was what, a $17 million per year player that got signed in free agency. He was easily like a top 20, top 25 free agent. Ram signed him. It didn't work out. And now, you know, you trade for him for what a day three pick. So it's not like you're giving up crazy draft capital.

So yeah, I like what the bears, bears have done so far. And that kind of runs counter to what they've done in the past when they've had resources to build up their roster. We've seen them spend big at positions that I don't know if you should necessarily spend big at, like linebacker we've seen in past years where they signed Edwards and Edmonds to big money deals. We saw last year they kind of build up that receiving core and then they couldn't really use it because they didn't have an offensive line. So I think this is more of an adult approach to building up the roster.

It's not going to be big moves where in two months we're going to be like, oh yeah, I remember that huge move, the move for Dalman, the 14 million year move for him. But in October, we could be like, hey, man, this offensive line is really solid. And we can look back at how they built it. And like you said, creatively, not pouring a ton of resources in terms of like cap money, maybe some draft capital that you would like back in a couple of years. But it's not too bad. You're not trading away first round picks for these players.

Yeah, no doubt. All right, Ruiz, who do you have? Who is your winner so far? I'm going to go with the Rams because for the first time. in a long time, they're able to have like a normal offseason. And I like what they're doing with it. I liked them bringing back a Lerick Jackson. I like the Puna Ford signing, not a huge deal,

but someone you could put in the middle of your defensive line and that helps out those young defensive linemen you added to the roster last year that had such good rookie years. And then Devante Adams. This is like the perfect spot for Devante Adams, in my opinion. I've been talking about this for, I guess, since 2021. You kind of replaced that Odell Beckham receiver. you had on that 2021 Super Bowl team, I think it helps out Pooka Nakua in the long run.

I think you kind of solve the target issue that you lost with Cooper Cup. And you potentially have a player that's more explosive than that. I think he adds an element to the Rams offense that they necessarily haven't had over the past couple of years. And then you get some extra draft capital with the Jonah Jackson trade, which I think we're lauding the bears for this move. But Jonah Jackson did seem to be a declining player who they had invested a lot of money. into and they kind of got out of that contract and picked up draft capital in the process. So a smart, I would say patient and very different offseason for less need in the Rams from office.

Yeah, for me, it's I just with, and we just talked about with the Bears, like, I want to be able to very clearly see what is your plan. Where are you going? And for the Rams are in a very unique spot. Their quarterback is going to be, what, 37? I didn't even mention that. They retained Matthew Stafford, which may have been, it wasn't a possibility like a couple weeks ago.

We saw him, you know, searching out trade partners. So that's another win for them. So like when you do that, now you're in a certain spot where you're saying he's 37 years old. We feel like we had a good team last year. Let's try to get over the hump this year. And really, you look at the last two post seasons. Like even two years ago, I would say, like there's a scenario where if you play out that season a hundred times the Rams are getting to the Super Bowl out of the NFC.

they lost in the first round to Detroit. So I don't think they're, you know, like not in touch with reality. I think they are a good team. They've got a veteran quarterback. They've got a good coach. And so that's why I like the Adams move for them. Like if Adams would have signed with the team that I thought isn't going anywhere, I would have been like, you're giving that, you know, you're giving a wide receiver at that age,

$22, $23 million per year. But for the Rams, it makes sense. And now you have McVeigh, Stafford, Nekua, Devante Adams, and a good pass rush. And you have your draft. and you still have your draft picks. Three top 100 picks. When's the last time the Rams have had that? Yeah.

And they had a great drive. They've actually drafted well. When they actually get the draft picks, they've got some impact players. So I'm with you. Again, is it possible that we're in week eight next season and we're going, Stafford really is showing decline. And, you know, Adams has had a hamstring injury and he doesn't.

Yes. But like they go in knowing that. And I think it's a worthy gamble to take Deonté in a wide open NFC. I think so. I would say that like, and when you think about the way that December and January, even though they were winning games, if you went and looked outside of like that Bills game, which is just a track meet up and down, when teams played man coverage against the Rams, it did not look like how it used to suit, where Cooper Cup is able to run option routes

against any kind of defender you drop over the top of them. They didn't have an X receiver that could go beat on mismatches for them. I think that I think that Puka Nakua is right in between what you want from an X and a Z receiver. And because of that, you would like to have a tributtal. through outside man-beating type of guy that Matthew Stafford can rely upon so you can use Spooka in all the versatile ways that you know Sean McVey wants to. And I just think about that divisional game and obviously the snow was a factor. As you just think about NBC putting up those clips of the Eagles playing that tight match coverage, man coverage against their receivers. And they

were just plastered. They didn't have anything that they could do in the dropback game. And I think that the Matthew Stafford storyline has taken up so much of the air in Los Angeles. because it really has a bit time to talk about what this team's going to be like offensively. And I was tweeting about this a little bit yesterday. I think that by preparing to move on from Cooper Cup, by bringing in Devante Adams and just thinking about what that offense was over the last two months of the season, I would not be surprised at all if they look at an aging quarterback and say, we're going to do what Denver did was Peyton Manning.

We're going to get you under center. We're going to try to lean on the run game. We're going to punish teams that play man coverage with that. And when it's time to get to the passing game, we've got your ex-receiver. and then you've got your guy that we can kind of pick on mismatches with in Apuka Nakua, and that should be good enough for them to be able to compete in the NFC West, and I'm sure we'll get to it as you get closer to talking about losers and just what the league looks like.

If you're the Rams, you should still feel pretty confident about your status in the NFC West and in the NFC period. I think that you can feel like you can be competitive, even if this offensive roster is not complete or perfect yet. They had the ball in the red zone threatening to go ahead in that Eagles game. That's the Super Bowl champs who looked dominant in winning the Super Bowl. Super Bowl after that game. So I agree.

I don't think they're that far off, but that could also be Fools Gold where you think you're a little closer than you are because of one one matchup. And then like you said, Sheel in October, we're like, oh, Stafford's hurt. Devante Adams looks old. But like, but at the same time, like what else were they going to do? What are you going to do? Right. They're not giving up like a bunch of first round picks or so.

I think it's a reasonable gamble to take. If I was, if I was in their front office or I was the, you know, low level staffer in the corner of the room when they're having those conversations, I would have been like, let's go, you know, like McVeigh, you, you know Stafford better than anybody. Do you think we should give this another, if he felt strongly that, no, like, this is over with Stafford, then I think they would have, you know, they wouldn't have given him the deal. They gave him. It's like, take one more shot.

It might not work out. But if you don't take that shot, what are you looking at here? You're looking at Jimmy G. You know, Jimmy G or something. We'll get to some of the other options that were out there. This is so, but so clearly a better option. Stafford doesn't have to be. and I said this about him last year.

I think the days are over where he's at like, I'm holding my hand up if you're watching on video at this level, like week in and week out, like there are going to be more dips. They're going to be more games, more possessions, more halves next year where we say, but he can still get to that.

You know, he can still get to that level. And so if you're competitive, you're in the playoffs and he can get to that level in some high leverage moments, you still have an opportunity. And to me, that's like supporting cast base.

It's not based on like Stafford's own dips, peaks and valleys. It's based on how well the team performs around them. And to Deontes' point, we saw them kind of shift back to that pre-Safford style of offense, getting under center, running the ball, play action pass. They can kind of push that forward another step. And they get the best of both worlds, like the Jared Golf offense

and what we saw in 2021 and beyond with Stafford, then you're cooking a little bit. All right. My winner was also Bears related with Caleb Williams. So let me just throw out a quick backup here. Justin Fields. I'm team CTC, so I got to give some of these guys. I'm like, wait, what happened there? Justin Fields. I mean, let's just take a moment to look at the NFL and how much things changed. So a year ago, anybody in the NFL could have had Justin Fields. The Bears were trading him. We knew it.

And the Steelers give up a sixth round pick. There was virtually no market for Justin Fields last offseason. he starts six games for the Steelers. He gets benched for Russell Wilson. And now he gets two years, $40 million with $30 million guaranteed from the New York Jets. Life is good as a quarterback in the NFL. I'm on the fence with this signing. So I want to hear what you guys think. I think the Jets are in sort of a reset year where it's like, hey, let's build the culture with Aaron Glenn.

Let's get some more good feelings in the building. I thought they were, and this isn't like the most expensive quarterback contract. We'll get to some of those. It's still more than I thought you were going to have to pay for Justin Fields. Like I thought he was going to be looking at sort of what Sam Darnold's got last offseason, which was one year, $10 million. You get out of this easily. Let's take a flyer.

They had to go to another level to sign him. And so I do have my concerns about this working out also because he's not the guy who it's like the ball's going to go where it's supposed to go. You know, so we're like, you're guarantee. Barrett Wilson's of the world could be facing another frustrating year. So I'm grading all the moves for the ringer. I gave this one a C. I was like, I can kind of see why they did it.

I can't tell you right now that, hey, this other option would have been a lot better. At the same time, it was a little bit more aggressive. I thought maybe they could have been a little more patient at the quarterback spot. Ruiz, what did you think of this move by the Jets to bring in Justin Fields for two years, $40 million? It's a lot of money. And if I can ignore that, I think it's a smart move. just because he's a player with high upside. And he's also a player that has a skill set that you can clearly use to generate some

type of offense. Like he's not like one of these players. You're just bringing him in and be like, I hope we could build the supporting cast. And then we'll figure out what we do on offense based on the strength of our supporting cast. Here, you can at least build a run game around him. And I think that's a good starting point for a team that doesn't have a quarterback,

doesn't have a clear path at quarterback to get one that you can build around for the future. So if that's going to be the case, then why not? not try to run the football. And if you can run the football, that's going to help out Aaron Glenn's defense. And that's the way they're going to win football games if they are going to win football games. They're not going to win football games, throwing it all around the field. And I don't think that's going to be the plan this year. I do think it's a good sign that you're bringing in a quarterback who doesn't necessarily fit in with the style of offense. You just assume they were going to run. Yeah, that was interesting. They bring in a guy from like the Sean Payton tree. You would expect

to drop back pass or a guy that's going to get under center. Whereas with fields, you're going to you're going to line them up in the guns. You can get the most out of them in the run game. I am interested, but I also think it's kind of a good sign because I guess the offense coordinator is just not going to fall back on what he's known. He's going to, I guess, he's going to be open to building a different style of offense. I'm interested to see how that looks. I don't know if it's going to work out, but I at least like it.

And if I'm a Jets fan, I'm more excited about this than bringing in, I don't know, Joe Flacco or Kirk Cousins. Yeah, I think the only different, the only reason I thought Cousins could be an option for them just because he was going to be so cheap. You know, you don't have to pay him anything because the whole contract gets offset. This is if the Falcons end up releasing him. So, Deonti, I thought that might be a, I thought that was going to be an option for them. To Ruiz's point, I thought you're bringing in the OC who was the passing game coordinator

for the Lions, okay, you're going to attack the middle of the field and play on time. And this is just, that's like the opposite of everything that Justin Fields does. That's why I wasn't sure about the fit, but maybe Ruiz is right. We talk about it all the time. Like, can the coach be open-minded and scheme the offense to what his players do well? What did you think of this Justin Field signing? I'm just like, see, even my first thought was like, wow, good for Justin Fields, man. 30 million guaranteed, you know, after what you went through in 2024.

And as you kind of laid out, Shield, just what the trajectory of his career looked like when you zoom out and think about the last like 18 months for him, you know, I definitely wouldn't have expected that. I think that you get this money when you're negotiating against a team that doesn't have a lot of leverage, right? If they were trying to solve their starting quarterback problem quickly, then yeah, you end up paying, you know, that low-end starter money or I guess high-end backup money for someone like Justin Field. So I can see that. I don't think that this precludes them from building long-term, you know, for whatever their next option that quarterback is going to be. I think that this allows them to look at the draft less about can we find a guy, right?

will someone fall to us? Do we need to be overly aggressive to try to change our draft position to get access to one of the top quarterbacks in this class? So I think you should feel good as a success from that perspective. I am really interested about Tanner Inström as a play caller with Justin Fields. I do think that they will be able to lean on the running game. But we watched the Jets last year. The offensive line was an issue that I don't think that that's going to necessarily

improve in 2025. and if you're getting below average play from your offensive line with the quarterback, that is not always the best at diagnosing pressure and being able to get the ball out before you take contact, who when he extends is a dynamic runner, don't get me wrong. As a pure scrambler, he's very dynamic with the ball on his hands, but he's not going to extend to be able to keep explosive offense on the table for you as a passer. It's entirely possible that we look up in November and we're saying like, hey, this is a 20, this team is 22nd at DVOA because I've got.

a few explosive runs every game that they can score on, and they're good in the red zone when they get there because they can run the ball. But on third down, they're a mess. They take a bunch of sacks. Offensive line is a problem. I could definitely see that being the outcome. But if you're the Jets coming off of what you just came off of, if you truly feel like Justin Fields can just execute something in the running game,

and you can start to build the bones around what you want to be long term, I don't hate this for Erin Glead, and I definitely don't hate this for Justin Fields. It's kind of funny. The Jets are like options at quarterback. were severely limited it just based on the quarterbacks that were available and their past history with the Jets. Like they couldn't get Sam Darnold. They couldn't get Gino Smith because those guys were there before.

And I just think there's just bad vibes around these acquirements. And then there's Aaron Rogers. Of course, he's the other one that's available. But, you know, they're just getting rid of them. They kind of had to go with Justin Fields. Joe Flacco, former Jet 2. It's like they've been around the block with all of these guys before. And really, they didn't have any options outside of Russell,

and Daniel Jones. Daniel Jones may want to stay away from New York after his experience with the Giants. So it was kind of tough for them. And their GM comes over from Denver. So, you know, I had seen Russell Wilson up close as well. You're right.

There was a lot of like, no, can't do that. Can't do that. It really felt like it was Fields where it was probably going to be Fields or Kirk Cousins here. So we'll see. I think best case scenario is that, yeah, Fields goes into like playmaking mode

and is running the ball well and the defense is really good. next year, which is, you know, like some version of what, you know, they went four and two of the Steelers with Fields as their quarterback last year. It's like it's almost like some version of that, even though he wasn't, you know, his success rate was one of the worst in the NFL, but he didn't turn the ball over, which he had done a ton of with the bear. So if it's some version of that, you buy some time. Like Deonti says, this doesn't preclude you from making other moves at quarterback. It's not that type of contract where you're like, we don't even have our eyes open. It's almost like a,

let's buy some time and try to figure this thing out. out. So we'll see what the Jets do there. All right, let's take a break. We're going to come back. We're going to get to the losers. I'm going to let myself lead off because this is probably the one that I feel strongest about. So I'll lead off with my loser and then we'll get to the rest of them. All right, we are back on the Ringer NFL show. We're doing winners and losers.

Hate to do it to you, Seattle. You know, I love you. We had a great two years, but I'm sorry. I don't like this. I've got the Seattle Seahawks as my loser. You know, and let me start up by saying, I understand the process there. I think there are smart people out there making the case, hey, you're paying Sam Darnold 75% of what you might have had to pay Gino Smith.

You know, you're getting, you got a third round pick for Gino. You got a second round pick for D.K. Metcalf, Darnold's younger than Gino Smith, you know. So if you hit, now you're hitting on someone for a longer time than you would with Gino Smith. I just don't buy that this is going to work out or that this got you any. closer to contending. You know, Sam Darnold was mediocre last year. I know you're looking at it saying, what are you talking about?

The Vikings won. If you look at any of the advanced stats, he was mediocre. He was around the 16th to 18th best quarterback in the NFL, EPA per play. Success rate. That was with Kevin O'Connell as his schemer, designer, play caller. That was with Justin Jefferson as his wide receiver won. That was with the Vikings offensive line that is better than the Seahawks offensive line. That was with playing your home games.

indoors. And if you look at Donald's career, that was an outlier season based on every other year where he had been a full-time starter. So now he's going to Seattle. Clint Kubiak, all due respect, maybe he'll be good. I don't have as much confidence in him as I do Kevin O'Connell. I like Jackson Smith and Jigpa. He is not Justin Jefferson. And if you look at options two through four, two through five, it's not even close to what Sam Darnold had in Minnesota, especially with the trade here of D.K. Metcalf. So now I'm supposed to believe that Darnold's going to maintain his level of play from Minnesota or improve on that level of play from Minnesota and that this is going to look good in Seattle. I don't see it. And I've heard the argument, well, you know, now they can rebuild their offensive line with the asset.

It's like they got a second round pick and a third round pick. Like this wasn't like a sell high. You know, like if they would have traded D.K. Metcalf last off season, they would have got more. If they would have traded Gino Smith's last offseason, it's two picks. It's a second and a third. And now an organization that hasn't been able to put together a competent offensive line in over a decade. Now, because of those two picks, they're going to build up the offensive line. So he's going to play in a more pressure-filled environment.

And you add in all those other things, I just don't think this is going to work out well for the Seattle Seahawks. So that's where I'm at. They're my loser. If I were a Seahawks fan, I'd be pretty bummed about it. this. I would not be excited about what I'm going to be watching here over the next two years. And this was a team I was pretty bullish on going into last season. And now I'm fading their decisions here quite a bit. Deontay, what do you think? Agree? Disagree. What did I get wrong? Where are you at? Because the Seahawks have been the team this off. No one's had a bigger makeover

so far this offseason than the Seahawks. I didn't like the trade. I didn't like the trade of Gino Smith with the return being a third round pick. And I don't totally want to play devil's advocate on all the moves. But I guess the thing that I'm, I guess the questions that I'm asking myself is, was it possible for them to make this pivot and not be uncomfortable? Right. Like, did they have to just play out the string with Gino until he hit the age cliff? And now if you're Mike McDonald, your job security was tied to a quarterback that you

didn't pick out, right? I don't think, I don't think that Mike McDonald necessarily had a problem with Gino. I think that Gino went out and earned some respect from his coach. staff. But I think that if you're Mike McDonald's you're probably thinking, if we can hit the reset button and I know I've got a little bit of job security, we can deal with an uncomfortable 20-25 and then revisit

our quarterback situation after that. So I can understand there's some sense in that. I don't like three years for a hundred million for Sam Donald. I just don't know if he merited that, even though we did have conversations right after the Viking season ended, that this was probably going to be about the deal

that he would get. So I'm not shocked on that figure. I just don't love it from Seattle. perspective. But I think the thing that's most important is what you were what you were kind of hinting at Shield. And that's all the pressure now is on John Schneider. And I just don't know that I trust John Schneider in this stage of franchise building. The last time the Seahawks were in this position, he had Pete Carroll there who basically laid out the entire blueprint of like, hey, we're going to do this spark thing. I know what I want in terms of corners. The idea of the long corner was still kind of a market inefficiency. It wasn't oversaturated at that point. They were able to bring in a lot of great

bet's on the defensive side of the ball, which is really where their holes were when Pete Carroll got hired and they were able to make a quick turnaround on that side. And then you go out and find a mid-round quarterback, which is maybe the hardest thing to do in the draft in Russell Wilson. So I just don't love that position from John Snyder. There are some clear holes in their team-building strategy that has existed now for over a decade. They've never really been good at finding interior offensive linemen. And it's not a priority of this organization and hasn't been for the last 15 years. I wasn't sweating the D.K. trade or letting go of Tyler Lockett because they have proven they can go find perimeter talent on the offensive and defensive side of the ball. They can go get

corners. They know how to go get receivers and how to develop at both those positions. So I wasn't sweating that. But Donald needs so much. Donald needs a number one receiver and you just gave one of those away. Donald needs an effective run game and you've never really had a dominant offensive line. I just don't trust that this year is not going to be a mess from Donald's perspective. and for every sack he takes, for every bad ball he throws, for every interception you get in the fourth quarter, it is just going to be a reflection on John Schneider's team building ability. And I just don't know if I were the GM, if I'd want to invite that kind of heat, that kind of pressure to try to pivot this roster around a quarterback that we know is limited

when there was an opportunity to be competitive in the NFC West. I don't know if this is the most competitive way to compete in the NFC West in 2025 or in 2026. I think the pressure is on Clint Kubiak. I think the success of these moves is based solely on his performance as a play caller next year and his ability to drum up some type of run game. Because like DeAndi said, if you don't have a run game, you're going to get the worst of Darnold. You're going to get a Darnold who's facing defensive looks that he can't really figure out before the snap because it's third and obvious.

And you have to pass the football. And the defense knows that so they can send blitzes from every angle at you. We know he's not great at processing that before or after the snap. We know he's not great when the defensive line is able to move him off his spot. that's when we see the worst of Donald. I think his skill set is very intriguing because he does have a big arm. He does have mobility. And you see him at times make crazy throws on the run.

Like the throw to Justin Jefferson that beat the Seahawks, it's probably something that was playing through John Schneider's mind and Mike McDonald's mind when they made this deal. But that's not his game. Like when you look at the stats, when he's moved off his spot, he's one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL and he takes a lot of sacks. His pressure to sack rate is very high. It's one of the highest in the NFL.

So I think he can cut. of cosplay as like one of these modern quarterbacks who could do both things who could throw on the run and throw from the pocket. But when you really break down his numbers and he break down the film, you see that that's not really the case. And in this environment that Seattle has had, I don't

think that's going to work. Now the question is, is the environment going to be the same? And bringing in a different offensive coordinator could change that. I just don't know. We haven't seen enough from Kubiak at this point. And I'm skeptical that he's going to be able to turn this offensive line, which isn't very

good, especially on the interior, into an offensive line that can not only block for the run game, but also block in pure passing situations. If the offensive line isn't, I would say, significantly better, then I think Darnold has very little chance of succeeding, especially in the way that he succeeded in Minnesota. And to me, it's fascinating that a quarterback, who made 14 million over the last two years combined, had one season, which was mediocre, as Shield said, and it didn't even end well. It was really, like, like a 15-game run, and that turns into a, what is this, a $37 million per year deal? Yeah.

That's fascinating to me. And it just shows that the NFL is still desperate for quarterbacks and don't necessarily know, like, what, how the environment affects their performance. Yeah, it's, it's kind of like that Baker-Mayfield deal, basically. But then the cap goes up a little bit. But Baker-Mayfield had done more, I think, than Sam Darnold. Baker-Bifford is a good quarterback right now. Yeah.

We have multiple years of sample size now that Baker Mayfield is an effective quarterback. That's why that contract doesn't hurt. Yeah. And there was no. Effective is the proper adjective. Also, there were no variables there. He was coming back in the same scheme with the same team. This is a projection.

That's the big thing here. That's the whole thing. This is a big projection to take him out of that environment, put him into your environment. And now you're expecting him to, again, at the very least, maintain his level of play. but in, you know, you're, you're hoping that he can improve his level of play. And I just don't see the surrounding factors there. I think, Deonti, the point you made about Schneider, I was really thinking about this with Pete Carroll. Like, if Pete Carroll were still there, they're not making, like, Pete Carroll would have been like,

Pete Carroll's never making this move. And it all, it really makes me wonder if Schneider is like, I'm running the show now. Like, there were time. Maybe he's like, I wanted to move off from Russell Wilson before Pete did. I wanted to, you know, make this big move, but Pete didn't want to do it. well, now this is like my time and who knows, like, how long it will last. I'm going to make the moves that I think are going to be best for the team. And they end up making these aggressive moves.

And so it just feels like in the first segment when we talked about the winners, I said, I like to know what a team's plan is or them knowing what their timeline is. Like if they would have traded Gino Smith and D.K. Metcalf and then just, I don't want to say tanks, but if they were like, let's wait on Kurt Cousins, let's do the Steelers plan from last year, basically. Let's just chill. We'll see which quarterback is still standing when all the other seats are taken that we can get for a very low salary and we'll plug that. Then I would have been like, okay, that's a plan. You want to take some time, build up your offensive line. You accumulated some assets and then figure out where you are. That's a plan. But to take that and then just go right

to Darnold and pay him this kind of money again, I just have a hard time seeing this working out. It's not like we haven't seen John Schneider, the GM, make this type of move before. He's people forget because of what Russell Wilson did that he gave Matt Flynn a bunch of money based on one game against a crappy Lions team in a game that didn't matter. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. All right. So that's my, listen, stuff surprises us. Last summer, I was saying Donald has no shot with the Vikings.

I've been wrong before. So maybe Sam Donald will be great with the Seahawks. I'm telling you how I feel on March 10th here. All right. Ruiz said now. Deonté, all right, who is your loser? What do you got? The loser feels, loser almost feels too strong because of who.

the quarterback is. So things will probably be fine. But God, I'm looking at the Chiefs offense, and I am not sure that anything is getting any better in 2025. One of the most interesting signings of the day, maybe. Yeah, you could definitely make the argument. You're paying starting tackle money to a guy that's never been a starting tackle. And I have some concerns about you move off of Joe Tuni,

which I think makes sense. We talked a little bit about him in the various context, 32 years old. He's going to be looking to hit hit a payday. at least one more time for at least a two or three year deal. And that's something that I think Chicago could do a lot more comfortably than Kansas City could. I look at this offensive line after bringing in Jalen Moore. I didn't see anything from him last year or the last two years.

I really would have suggested that $30 million. Can you explain who he is, Deonti? I feel like we have a knowledgeable audience. But, I mean, you really need to be grinding all 32 teams to have seen that and been like, oh, yeah, I know who I know who. Let the people know who this guy is who's going to be pretty. protecting Patrick Mahomes' blindside next year at two years, $30 million. You're talking about Trent Williams' backup,

which means that you're not really seeing the field and meaningful. You remember all those splits to where they were like, who's the most important 49ers Avenger? Every time it was Trent Williams. It was always Trent Williams. Every time he was off the field, they became like the worst offense. Yeah, that's true. So you're talking about his backup.

You're talking about his backup. He has played a bunch because San Francisco's offensive line has just been banged up a bunch over the last two to three seasons. So you've seen some film from them. You just don't see anything that pops out as like, we've got to pay this guy $15 million a year. So it'll be our starting left tackle, right? He's got issues as a pass protector.

He's barely like kind of at the average line as a run blocker. You think about the Super Bowl. You think about the game against Houston in the divisional round. It's hard not to not to wonder whether or not Mahomes is going to be on Halloween, running for his life the same way he was for the last. two months of the season. If he's still going to be up around the top of the league and QB hits taken and sacks taking,

you know, if the A dot stays low, there is a lot, I think, being baked upon the fact that once they get Rishi Rice back, that wide receiver corps is going to be totally fine, and that King Liu Suamataia is going to be a really good interior offensive linemen, and he looked better there, certainly, than he did at tackle when they were trying to give him a shot to earn a job out there.

so I want to leave open the possibility for that. I just don't think that any holes have been covered up on that side of the ball. And instead, you know, and in spite of bringing back Nick Bolton on an extension, they still might have to say goodbye to some really effective defensive role players that they've had over the last few years. So I just have a lot of concerns about what 2025 is going to look like when the rest of the AFC has clearly shown that they've been closing the gap over the last couple of seasons.

Yeah, this, I mean, that signing with Jail of Jalen Moore, that was like one of the first ones announced during the negotiating period. Two years, $30 million. I was shocked. Again, he was not on my top fit. Now, that could be on me. Maybe I should have seen that. But to Deonti's point, he started 12 games in four seasons with the 49ers. Now, there's part of me who's like, hey, you got creative.

You know, it's hard to find the left tackle. that's good. The other part of me is saying you're really putting a lot of faith in your scouting that you see something from this guy that nobody else has seen. And when I look at some of their other moves, Joanne Taylor, they gave a monster deal to. He's still playing for them, but he has been a disappointment. Sua Mataya, you mentioned it. In a perfect scenario, he's their left tackle last year. That didn't work out. Wanya Morris, that's another guy. They thought he's going to be our left tackle. They were just rotating through left tackles. They tried DJ Home. Humphreasing.

They tried DJ Humphrester. They used the first round pick on Eric Fisher who was a good player, but never like a player that lived up to his first. Like they're not, we talked about John Schneider. John Schneider and the Seahawks, but this team has been trying to solve that left tackle position ever since Fisher kind of walked away and they haven't been able to do it. Yeah. So if you're thinking about the chiefs, like Deonti said, your last memory is of Patrick Moh, you know,

them just getting killed on their offensive. By the way, I need to make this point because now I feel like that Eagles pass rush. It's like, oh, that Eagles pass rush do what they did. That wasn't an elite pass rush all season. They made the Chiefs offensive line look worse than like any other offensive line. They faced all season long. So now you're taking that and you move on from Tooney. And like you said, now you have a question mark at one of the guard spots.

You're paying a lot for left tackle. You have a question mark there. Trey Smith will see if they, I'm with you. You know, we were here. We were talking about them after the Super Bowl, saying are like, what are they going to do here offensively to put Mahomes in a better spot? And they've made moves. But Ruiz, I don't feel confident that they've made moves where I feel like Mahomes is actually

in a better spot than he was last season. No, you're kind of banking on guys coming back like Rashire Rice. But I mean, he's Mahomes. Like, that's why I'm like, I'm not too concerned about it. Yeah, the floor is a huge, a huge spot for most teams. But the guy never gets sacked. I know he got sacked in the Super Bowl, but he usually never gets sacked. and Andy Reid's still there scheming around that offensive line.

I don't think it's going to be too much of an issue, but I do think that it's easy to talk yourself into this player just because we haven't seen him play long enough. Jalen Moore, I'm talking about, to see that he's bad. And I think he has a good PFF grades because he plays for the 49ers and they're never in pure dropback situations. Exactly. He's getting help with play action and all that.

So I think there's a chance that this guy gets exposed, especially in that offense where they drop back all the time. But it won't matter. They're going to score 30 points a game and they're going to be 14 and 3 joined into the playoffs anyway. I don't believe that. I don't believe that.

I look at an offensive line that couldn't move the ball on the ground last year when they had three good interior players and you've let one go and you've gotten more expensive up front because of bringing back Trace Smith on the franchise tag, which was the right move. I don't want to argue against that.

But now I'm looking and saying if they didn't bring back Trace Smith on the tag, You would basically be looking at one good offensive lineman that you will be starting the season with and it's your center, you know, arguably the least valuable one of your five in the trenches. I just have a lot of concerns about having a question mark at left tackle right next to the question mark at left guard

and your two right side offensive linemen are probably better as run blockers than they are in pass protection. I just have concerns for Patrick Mahomes. I think about what that ADOT was throughout the season. I think about the fact that they have been successful. rate merchants, which sounds ridiculous to say about a team that's played in this many Super Bowls now. But you could always make the argument that, hey, the success rate will be fine. Third down will be fine.

You know, Patrick Mahomes will find options on early downs and you won't get sacked. And I think that all of that is, it makes sense to make as an argument. I just look at Baltimore. I look at Buffalo. And I just think about how the gap has been shrinking over the last couple of years. And I'm looking at the chief's trend in the wrong direction if you want to stay head and shoulders above your top competition in your conference. That's not to say that we'll be right back in the Super Bowl.

I just think it's pretty clear that this offense is just not, it's not going to be what I think we all hoped it would have been when we were sitting together in the press box in New Orleans after the Super Bowl. Yeah, I mean, they're always going to have a chance to make the Super Bowl. We had that conversation, I feel like a lot during the regular season when we were criticizing how they were playing. It's like, yeah, they still can make the Super Bowl. They still can win the Super Bowl.

But, you know, just looking at it, they scored 30 plus twice last year. the entire season, 20 games, 19 with Patrick Mahomes, and they were, what, 8th in a lot of the metrics we like to look at that, gauges efficiency. And so every year, I'm like, that's going to be as hard as it's going to get for Mahomes with the supporting cast,

yet then you get to the next year. Rashir Rice might come back, and it really might solve a lot of their problems if he's healthy, but you're also, then you're like, should they be putting, should there be that much on Rishie Rice to make the offense go? So it just hasn't gone. with Deante and hasn't gone exactly how I thought it would go, their offseason so far. Jalen Moore could end up being a great story.

You know, we could be here during the season being like they found a diamond in the rough. They got creative. They didn't just go and sign the guy everyone knew about for, you know, like maybe Dan Moore. You could have signed for what was it, 21, 22 million. Nope. They got cheaper and they found a backup who they thought had talent. And now they're developing him. That would be a great story.

If that happens, it's just a matter of when you're in that contending mode, the fewer unknowns, the better. If you're sort of a team on the rise, I like doing that a little bit more where it's like if it doesn't work out, who cares? Now the stakes are higher where if it doesn't work out, you're, you know, you're trying to be a Super Bowl contender. All right. Ruiz, what do you have? Who is your loser? I'm going to go with another very busy team this off-season. I'm going to go with the commanders as my second loser. And it's mostly just because we've been talking about this throughout the offseason, like the teams that don't have any new ideas. And it feels like they're running back their strategy from last year. And it's like, hey, guys that seem to be on the

decline, but they've been good players in the past, and they're coming cheaper than they usually would. They traded for Laramie Tunsell. They traded for Debo Samuel. This one isn't a guy that was cheaper, but Javon Kinlaw, I think, was the biggest shock deal early on on tampering day. Three years, 45 million for a player that had largely been forgotten since his days in Philadelphia. It kind of, maybe this is just confirmation bias because that front office kind of comes from the NFL, but it feels are like the ownership group, or from the NBA.

But it feels like they're taking like an NBA approach to building up this roster where we have our young core of guys, our max guys, so to speak, that we can build around. And then we're just going to build around them with cheaper veterans that take league minimum deals. Did it with Zach Ertz and Bobby Wagner last year? I feel like that's what they're kind of going for with these acquisitions this year. I don't know if it's going to work out because old players tend to get worse. They don't tend to get better.

And I feel like guys like Bobby Wagner, he was a great story last year. And I'm sure he was an asset in the locker room. but there were times when he was picked on. And I don't know how these moves are necessarily going to take them from where they were last year and elevate them to the next level. And they're going to be fighting off some regression. We covered those numbers in detail during the regular season. So I don't know.

It's easy to get excited about this team on paper. I feel like a bleacher report graphic that they tweet out, like, who's stopping this team? But it would do a lot of retweet. God, I hate those. I just don't know how it's going to look on the field when September comes around. I don't think anyone in Washington really knows because you're talking. talking about a lot of players who have injury problems in the past and have been up and down. Like Laramie Tunsell, two years ago, this would have been a good deal.

But last year, he was a bad player and he was an unreliable player in terms of pre-snap penalty. So unless they get some coaching around him, that makes them, turns them into that past version of Laramie Me Tunsel. I don't know if we're going to look back at this is such a good value. I do like the no new ideas point, because you mentioned it. Their GM, Adam Peters, comes from San Francisco. And what do they do? They trade for Debo Samuel, who drafted Javon Kinlaw, the 49ers. And last year, Javon Kinlaw was a free agent, and he signed for one year, $7 million with the Jets,

and he had two and a half sacks in 12 games. And now you just met, he wasn't even on my radar when I was doing top 50 free agents. And now you sign him for three years, $45 million? I mean, really objectively, Kinlaw has had a disappointing, career. And so that one really surprised me. I'm with you. That was one of the biggest head scratchers I thought on the first day of the negotiating period with the Javon Kinlaw deal. And that feels like that feels like a Dan Quinn move to me. Like that feels the type of player that fits that scheme, a guy. Like I think that's why the 49ers drafted them. I think that's why

the Jets obviously acquired him. Robert Sala. They're all in the same coaching tree. I feel like that's the move there. I don't know if that was the front office thing. But like that's a lot of faith to put in Dan Quinn, who didn't have the best defense last year. That was probably the reason they didn't go further in the playoffs. They maybe could have made a Super Bowl. They had a more competent defense. And by the way, they released Jonathan Allen, who had been a good player for them for a long time. And now you're placing him with Javon Kinla at a similar number.

I forget what the Allen number was. It wasn't far off from $15 million per year, Deontay. I'm with that. And I was actually going to bring him up in relation to other players. I think maybe the funniest thing about the commanders is the stuff that worked well from them, the guys who were able to go there as vets that were kind of, you know, middling

or had been disappointing or needed to rehab their value, all did so and they're all siding elsewhere. Jeremy Chin has a pretty decent year as kind of like a flexible safety linebacker type of them, and he leaves to go into two-year-deals to go play for the Raiders. You think about DME Brown. By the end of the season, he starts actually looking like

a functional receiver within the rotation, and now he's going to be in Jacksonville. Jonathan Allen gets released. And you're looking at somebody like Kinlau who gets $30 million guaranteed over three years. And you set a shield. And I think that in some ways it's almost underplayed. Two years into his rookie deal,

San Francisco was actively looking for replacements for him. They bring in Javon Hardgrave as soon as he's a pre-agent. In spite of spending first-round draft capital on Javon Kinlaw, they have taken a bunch of swings to try to replace his production. He goes to New York, which is another defensive scheme that should fit him well and he doesn't produce there. I have a lot of problems

with where the commanders are. I was just sitting thinking about the NFC. I mean, if you're Philadelphia, if you're Detroit, if you're one of the teams at the top of this conference, you're sleeping so easily, not worried so much about regression

for your team because none of the rest of the teams in the NFC have really made up much ground in that respect. I don't know how the commanders are going to avoid their regression back to the mean

given some of the roster deficiencies that they're going to have unless they have one of those Saints, 2017, 2018 drafts where they bring in five, six starters at key positions in the trenches and on the perimeter. I do think Debo could be like a good add to that offense,

but it's based on him staying healthy. Like if he can stay healthy, I do think they can lean into what they did more last year. But you also want to see some evolution out of that offense where it's not just RPO every early down, where you can get into some of the dropback world. And that's not necessarily where Debo Samuel will help out. Maybe that's where Tunsell helps out in theory.

but again, another player that we haven't seen his best in years. It's tough to imagine how this team, based on the last couple of years from these players, really taking a step forward. And I think this was a year where they could have taken a major step forward, even based on the success they had last year on offense. Let's stick on that Tuntl trade for a second, because this was a big trade. I feel like it came out of nowhere, really. I didn't see a lot of reporting that Tonsal was going to be on the block.

And so Houston trades him to the commanders. So they trade Tunsel and a fourth to the commanders for a third and a seventh this year and a second and a fourth next year. And Tunto is a guy who has been a very good left tackle in the NFL, very talented. But to Ruiz's point, he's probably coming off the worst season of his career. He's entering his age 31 season. He has been a CTC All-Star. And so he could be saying, I want a new deal with this trade, with all this money that's being thrown around. Hey, I want a new deal as part of this trade.

He signed through 2026. So it might require an extension. There's no guarantee money left on his deal. Okay. Yeah. So very well could. Lance Zeerline of NFL.com had a, you know, who's in Houston and knows the team well, said it's about culture with Tunsel, which I don't really know what to make of that. Yeah.

He was the captain too. I'm always like, I don't know, but I'm just trying to present kind of everything, all the reporting that's come out as we record this. But from a commander's perspective, there is upside. Like it is hard to find a left tackle who's as talented as Laramie Tunsell. And I don't want to compare him to Trent Williams. But when the 49ers traded for Trent Williams, he was kind of a, I don't know if distressed asset is the right word, but like they gave up.

I think it was a second. I don't think they gave up for first for Trent Williams. And he still had a lot of great football left and ended up. being a key to some of their championship team. So I'm kind of on the fence here. Like I get the swing. I do think it comes with risk. Deontay, where do you land on kind of the commander's side of making a move like this?

They needed a left tackle. I think that, I think that Ronnie Stanley signing an extension was probably the biggest punch in the gut for them because I could have seen them forking up top of market, near top of market money to bring in a starting left tackle like Ronnie Stanley. And that's another guy who's been hurt, who's had some. up and downs in terms of productivity, but we've seen some really high highs from him where I could have maybe understood them spending

to bring that guy in. I watched Laramie Tunsell last year, and I remember starting the year of feeling like, oh, it's everybody but Tunsell's fault for why C.J. Shroud is under so much pressure. And then you start watching on a down-to-down basis, and you realize he's just as much a part of the problem as the other four of it, as his four teammates around him,

took a step back as a run blocker, not even touching whatever the implications are, or the culture stuff that you were mentioning. She'll, it would just look like a player who was, whose best days, maybe were in 2024, who the last of his best days, I should say, happened two seasons ago or a season ago. So I have some concerns about the commanders

I don't get giving away draft capital for a guy like that, right? If you're talking about trading away, top of the draft, day one or early day two picks because you're bringing in an all-crow level player that we just saw in 2024 who was playing at that level, I'd be willing to argue on behalf of, on that behalf. I just don't see that with this team. I'm looking at Laramie Tunsell, who's been hurt a bunch.

You look at the guy, Debo Samuel's been hurt a bunch. As of late, his production has definitely been down in that respect. Teams know how to defend him much better than in years past. And because he's taking a step back, it's even easier to do so. I did not want to see the commanders leave an offseason or getting to an offseason. And I feel like there's just as much weight on Jaden Daniels' shoulders as there was when he was a rookie. And it feels very much like they just brought in names that people recognize quickly, not legitimate help for Daniels in this office. As crazy as this would have sounded a year ago,

I kind of trust Cliff, though, to scheme around any potential issues. And I feel like the offense is going to be good. I need to see the full picture. And yeah, we revisit this maybe after the draft. I need to look at that. There's upside. I mean, I was just looking, Brandon Thorne, who does a great job with O-Line and Alice. says he had Tunsel as his second best left tackle going into last season. So it's like this at the best, this is a very good player. Then Tunsel just had 17 penalties to lead the NFL last season. And it's a team with a quarterback they want to protect trading him.

Like that has to inform this stuff too. What was the Texans motivation? They got a nice haul. They didn't get, you know, like multiple first round picks. And they're in win now mode with C.J. Stroud on that rookie deal. So it's just a really hard one for me to kind of. wrap my arms around and figure out how I think this is going to play out. But that was certainly an interesting move.

I generally, I don't know if I'm as, I don't know if I had them in like the loser category. I do think if I went into this offseason with their resources and this is like, it seems a little more boom or bust than I thought it was going to be. And I'm with you. Like, Deonté made the point. Their good young players who were like role players last year are out of the building. And then the guys who were in their mid 30s are the ones they brought back. and now you're counting on them to not have their play slip at all in their mid-30s,

which is usually a bad proposition. It's more like the approach and the vibes than giving them the loser tag. It does feel like an NBA style approach where it's like the Warriors when like, oh, is that David West on the end of the bench there? Like that's what it feels like they're kind of building around Jordan Daniels. There you go. All right. Let's take a break.

We're going to come back. We're going to do a little speed. I don't know how it'll be sort of a speed round. We're going to get to a bunch of these deals. If they're interesting, we'll talk about them more. If not, we'll just say like it, don't like it. We'll go through those. And then I do want to talk a little bit more about the other side of some of these trades we've discussed.

The Raiders getting Gino Smith, the Steelers getting D.K. Metcalfe. Maybe even the Texans trading Laramie Tunsell. What are they doing here? So we'll finish the show with some of those. All right, we're back on the ringer NFL show. All right, let's go through these. I think Ruiz had the good idea. Good deal, bad deal.

So if you have something to say about it, you know, speak up. If not, it could just say good deal or bad deal. I'm going to run through some of these bucks. Keep wide receiver Chris Godwin, three years, $66 million to keep it consistent here. Ruiz, why don't you start on all of these? Then Deante, you can go and then I'll finish it off. Now, that's a good deal to me. That's pretty cheap.

Assuming he comes back healthy, which I don't think there's any way to kind of assess that. really and you just got to go with what you know. And he's not only a great player, a great receiver, he's foundational to how that offense worked when it was really going well at the beginning of the year. And I almost made them winners. I feel like the Bucks retained some key parts

like Ben Bredeson. Keeping that offensive line together is a big deal for them. So I don't know. I'm going to make them winners, and I think this is a good deal. Deontay. I'm on the side of a good deal as well. I did not want to see, if you're a Bucksman, you do not want to see a guy like God wouldn't leave because they didn't really have any

opportunity to replace his production, replace his role within the offense. I think that you trust the fact you mentioned the shield in the last podcast who did that he has a history, right? You don't necessarily want to bake on guys bouncing back quickly and effectively from injury, but at least you know that this is the guy who can sustain a lower body injury and be able to bounce back

and play well in years to come. It's not like he's 31 and you're like, oh man, talking about lower body injuries and be 35 at the end of this deal is even going to be a functional receiver at that point. You could still get some good years out of them. You bring it, you bring back big reticence, which protects the core of what makes this team what it was, which is being effective offensively in the run game and the passing game. That kind of continuity will only serve Baker Mayfield in this franchise really well. And it keeps them

from having to use early draft capital to try to plug up holes that they wouldn't probably be able to if guys were walking out of the building. So I think the bucks can look at themselves in the NFC South and still feel like they're at the top of this because none of the other teams that they're competing with are really making moves that put them immediately within their crosshairs as early competitors.

I thought I was a sorry, Royce. That's not, that's not going to go on. How much are you going to get to it? I don't think that does enough. I also like the Hassan Reddick deal. It's not a huge deal one year, 14 million, but I like, like, they need a Shaq Barrett replacement. They haven't really had that

for a couple years, and I think he could add that. it's a cheaper low-risk deal for them. Nice by low. Yeah, one year, $12 million for a guy who had a disastrous holdout and a disastrous season last year. But he's 31 years old. And he was like among the five highest sack producers for like the previous three years. So I don't think he just forgot how to rush the passer. I thought the Godwin deal was honestly one of the best deals of the day when you look at some of the crazy money being thrown around for a wide receiver of his caliber at 28, 29 years old.

every free agent will say, or every agent I should say, will be like, our client left so much money. I really believe it with Godwin, that if he hit the open market, I think he would have been making way more money than he took with the bucks. But obviously he's happy in Tampa. So good for him. And that's a nice deal for the bucks. Let's spend a minute on the New England Patriots here.

Next, Patriots sign Milton Williams. four years, $104 million, $26 million per year for the former Eagles defensive tackle. They do that. They sign Carlton Davis, the corner from the Lions, three years, $60 million, $20 million per year. He's getting paid like a top seven corner in the NFL. Harold Landry from the Titans, Mike Rabel coached him there. I think that one was, I want to say, $14.5 million per year. They bring him in, and then they bring in Morgan Moses, the veteran offensive tackle.

So Patriots go into this offseason with a ton of cap space. Ruiz, you can talk about any of those that you want to, the overall approach. How are you feeling about the New England Patriots? They also gave Robert Spillane, the linebacker 37 million. And I don't feel any better about Drake May's outlook for this season. And I think that should have been the big priority. I don't know. It just seems like a very Mike Vrable, Tennessee Titans, circa 2020 type off season.

And I mean, unless you're trying to win the 2020 AFC South, I don't know how this helps you progress as a football team. I'm not a big fan of it so far. Like Milton Williams, I think we talked about this last spot. He's a good player. Carlton Davis, a good player. but you didn't get those guys for below market value. If anything, you paid a premium for both from $26 million a year for Milton Williams.

I love the player. I like the tape, but that's rich unless he develops into a truly game-wrecking defensive lineman. I don't see how you get value from that. Then Carlton Davis, he's had trouble staying healthy, and he's a little, he's up in his 20s. I don't know about that deal. I don't know how it's going to age. $60 million is a lot for a corner who has been up and down throughout his career.

What did you think, Deontay? I have a question, Sheel, because you've watched the Eagles about as often as I've watched the Eagles. Would you have ever made an argument that $26 million for a year was coming for Milton Williams? Yeah, I feel bad because it was like, you know, it's kind of like the band you liked before everybody else liked them. It's like, no, Milton Williams is good, you know?

And now all of a sudden, you know, I don't want to say sellouts because I'm glad for good for him. You know, see, again, team CTC, but no, to answer your question, never saw this coming. And it kept rising. You know, there was a point where I'm like, maybe he'll get 17. Maybe he'll get 18. Oh, Digi Zua got 20. He'll probably get that and get 21 or 22.

And then $26 million per year. Again, very good player, has never been a full-time starter, has never played 50% of the snaps, had five sacks and 10 quarterback hits last year, playing alongside Jalen Carter who is getting double-teamed all the time and you're getting favorable matchups. And so I get it that, hey, he's an ascending player and maybe his next stretch will be better. But I also have the rule that in the offseason, it is for free agency and the draft, don't fall in love. It's number one rule, NFL. And this is so clearly, we are going to do whatever it takes to land this guy. There were reports that he's agreeing to terms with Carolina. And then all of a sudden,

Oh, wait, he's going on New England and he's the third highest paid defensive tackle in the NFL. So I get that they had money to spend, but that was a long answer to your question, Deonte. No, I never thought he was going to say. You said everything I was going to say.

And I think the fact that that one's so eye-popping, I almost want to set it aside because I don't want it to color how I think about the other moves. I'm actually, I don't find the Carlton Davis deals to be as problematic. I think that third year could be really uncomfortable. I think that the machinations of that contract can be trouble for them. If Davis doesn't look when he's healthy again, the way he looked at his best in Detroit last season,

because he did look like a functional, a functional cornerback too. And I think that next to Christian Gonzalez was a better corner as the Trian Arnold is, right? You can end up looking at a really good secondary as a result of that. I do think that Milton Williams can be really productive there. I just might not, I might have walked away, right? and it just said, hey, Carolina, you could have them if this is what the asking price is.

I don't know if I'm paying that. You look at Roberts Fulane, that's kind of, I don't want to say none to do it to do, but I'm not really moved in either direction. Like, I don't think that you needed to pay that guy over $12 million. But if that's what you're paying starting linebackers these days, then I'm willing to almost kind of just like shoe that one along. I will say, though, I would have been more concerned in a lot of respects if Ronnie Stanley comes off the market, Trace Smith gets franchise tag,

and then they say, we are paying starting offensive line money to any start of offensive linemen who will walk in the door for us. If we were looking at Mackay Beckton making $16, 17 million to be a starter for them, oh, we're kicking him back out to tackle after the year he just had at guard. This would be a really big concern for me. If we would have seen them paying Will Fries a bunch of money, right, or Cam Robinson a bunch of money to be their starting left tackle right out the gate and free agency, I would be more concerned. but the defense can get to a top 12, top 10 level with the signings they made, and you can bring in young offensive players

who are closer to Drake May's timeline. Maybe that means that everybody's kind of got to take their medicine in 2025 and we're not going to see the version of Drake May that I think everybody on this podcast believes that he can become if you surround them with the right supporting cast. I think I'm willing to be patient in that respect and just seeing them be frivolous with offensive lines spending. I just know that that's something they have.

absolutely have to address before we get to the end of free agency here because I don't want to see rookie offensive linemen protecting for a young quarterback with an offense that is not yet proven to me that they know what to do with Drake May. Yeah, and I don't think Morgan Moses checks that box for them. And I don't think based on the contract, I don't think they think that either. Right. I kind of have the big takeaway that Ruiz started the conversation with, which is that like you go into this offseason and it's sort of like we talked about with the bears, you know, how are we putting our young quarterback in position to succeed? And this feels very Vrably, again, Landry played for him in Tennessee.

Like, go get me, you know, Jeffrey Simmons in Milton. Like, I want to build a hard-nosed, go look at the Titans defenses under Vrabble. Like, they did not have great defenses most years under Mike Vrable. They had some moments. But if you look at kind of the role. It was like the style of fights type of defense. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah. their moments, but it wasn't like the foundation of the team. And when they were good, it was because of Arthur Smith and Ryan Tannahill and Derek Henry and AJ Brown. How dare you name Derek Henry third on that list? David Edwards, Arthur Smith and Ryan Tannahill? No, it was AJ Brown and Derek Henry. All right. All right.

It was the offense was a top five or six offense with the Tennessee Titans. So I look at this. And yeah, Milton Williams, I don't like the Davis sign. I mean, $20 million per year. year has missed 20 games over the last four years. I like Davis as a player. Yeah. You have Christian Gonzalez as your cornerback won.

Like I look at the Vikings. That's why I'm shocked. It's three years. I'm forward that they gave them three years. If it was one for 20, hey, premium price. You're the team with all the money and free agency. I understand you've probably got to extend yourself in ways that I would be uncomfortable.

But that's how you bring in better players. Three years, it's that, that's tricky. You can't see the vision. You can't see the vision with Carlton Davis and Christian Gonzalez. If they are healthy, and that's a question for both of them, like, that is a top, I don't know, five cornerback duo, maybe even top three. And you can play a bunch of man coverage. I see the vision there, but it's tough. And it's tough to play man coverage if you don't have the front seven.

I know they're going for the front seven, but I'm not sure Harold Landry. Like, Harold Landry is the most concerning deal out of this to me, just from like an outlook standpoint, like how much input Rabel's going to have and how much clout he's going to have. Because that's a lot of money for a player. He does have sacks. Like he has sacks due to the names, but you look at the underlying metrics, and they are very concerning. Yeah.

Yeah. So we'll see. They spent, I look at it, and I don't know that I feel like that much differently about them. And in some of this screams to me, like the types of deals that a year from now, two years from now,

this is how free agency works. Most of these deals don't work out. And so we'll see. Let's see what they do in the draft. We'll see what they do the rest of the off season. Maybe they have stuff up their sleeve. to build up that offense and give Drake Mason people to throw the football to. But that's how I felt sort of after their first wave of free agency here.

All right. We can move quickly probably through some of these other ones. Cardinals sign Josh Sweat, four years, $76.4 million. Ruiz, Josh Sweat to the Cardinal. That's a bad deal for me. I think if you would have asked this question before the Super Bowl, I think we all would have said bad deal without hesitation. I think they're kind of overpaying for that performance in the Super Bowl.

It was a good performance, though. By the way, another example of, I mean, I hate to say no new ideas 400 times, but Jonathan Gannon coached Josh Sweat. Listen, NFL, like, don't be afraid of the unknown sometimes. Sometimes there's upside out there where you can bring in a player who's better than the player who you actually know. Deonté, what did you think of that, Josh Sweat deal? I'm another one where I'm floored.

Like, hey, 19 million. I find myself saying more often, like, good for you, player. Good for you, agent, for being able to negotiate this kind of earnings for your, for your client. I don't see $19 million worth of production from Josh Flet. Otherwise, Philadelphia would have kept them because they have a glaring need at their edge spot now. If he was that level of player, they would have paid him two off seasons ago when they had the opportunity to. They allowed her to play out this lame duck year and you did not see, you do not see enough high impact throughout the course of the season that would have led you to believe that this was a guy that was going to be paid close to, $20 million per season.

I don't mind the debt chart. When you look at Barrow-Browning and Josh Swett together for Arizona, you're like, okay, that looks like a much better version of an ad-rushing room than it was going into 2024. So I can see how it can be effective and how those guys can be effective in tandem. I just think if you're paying that kind of money, you would have liked to see them come back with a player a little bit better than Josh Swet. And now you're going to be paying him as he approaches age 30, almost $20 million a year.

That's a really uncomfortable position for me for a guy who's, production is just waxing way too often throughout his career. Yeah, I think competent starter. I know they need players. It's the nature of free agency. I don't think Josh Sweat's going to be an impact player for them throughout the course of that deal. Maybe I'll be wrong.

We'll see. All right, this next one I actually like, charge your sign, Khalil Mack, one year, $18 million. Ruiz, what do you think? I mean, I trust them. I trust them. They had him in his scheme. They know what he brings to the scheme. I think Jesse Mentor is a sharp.

defensive mind. I think that front office has earned the benefit of the doubt through one year after what they did last year. It's a little bit of an overpay for me, but it makes sense when you're bringing back a player who obviously has a name and has a reputation around your building. So a little bit of an overpay, but I don't hate the deal. I think it's a good bit of business for them. I don't know what to make of the Chargers offseason quite yet because we just haven't

seen. I think it's incomplete. And maybe the takeaway here over the last two off seasons that they just don't plan to be big spenders that they are looking at this as a draft and developed thing because now after taking their medicine with debt cap last season, I thought coming into 2025 Harbaugh really pounds the table.

Joe Ortiz comes in and says, hey, we're going to build this a certain kind of way and you see a little bit more money flying around, even if it's in the trenches and not at, you know, not out on the perimeter because you know that both Harbaugh and that Baltimore method of team building, they don't prioritize spending big money out on the

perimeter. I just look and I see a lot of incremental growth than you think about Khalil Mack, if $18 million was a big ticket spending that they could have given out, I would have maybe liked to have seen them go out and compete for Carlton Davis to go play corner. They definitely need help in the defensive secondary. I would have looked to do that and then bring in young guys to play along the edge. I do trust them to Stevens point that they know exactly what Kalil Mack has left to give. But 18 at 34 years old, after you let go up both sides, I thought this was going to be a clean break for them in terms of their edge room

and they were going to be hitting reset at that position. Maybe it works out. I just have some doubts after looking, after seeing how he played in 2024, which was effective but not nearly as explosive as he was in 23. I don't know if you're getting anything close to 23's production. And if you get 2024 production again next year, to me, I don't know if that was $18 million worth of investment.

Yeah, I look at it like a little one-year band-date. You can still try to draft and stuff, but you want to set the floor going into the draft. Yeah, it's okay. You know what you're getting, physical, player, veteran. And so go ahead and because they need players. They need players in there all over the defense, including in their front seven. So I would rather do that than make a longer term commitment to some of these other guys who have been available. So I think it buys you time a little

bit. Lions signed cornerback, DJ Reed, three years, $48 million, Ruiz. So they lose Carlton Davis. They bring in DJ Reed at $16 million per year. What do you think? I think that's a good deal. I think you have to adjust for the cap going up. And I think it makes sense they're paying him less than Carlton Davis. I also think maybe they're moving on from like the Aaron Glenn style where we're going to play man coverage a bunch. Like DJ Reed can do that. But he also brings some zone versatility, which I don't know if Carlton Davis was the best fit for. So it makes sense for them. They had a need after Davis left. And we saw what happened when there was more pressure on that secondary to perform when the defensive line kind of got wrecked by injuries. And I think,

they know they need talent at that position to compete, especially in the NFC North when you're going up against Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison and all those guys that the Packers have. And even the Bears are an ascending offense and they have two good wide receiver. So it makes sense for them not only with their competition, but also with the holes on their roster. And I don't think it was a terribly bad price. Yeah, what did you think, Deonti?

I thought it was a good move. If the difference in price lose $12 million in total, you bring in DJ Reed instead of Carlton Davis, I think that that's a smart move for them. I think that if Terry and Arnold is the ascending player that I believe he can be and that the lion seems to believe he can be, it makes sense to not spend $20 million

for your second quarterback. And I do think that's, like Stephen said, DJ Reed can't play some man, but he's more of a versatile corner than Carlton Davis is a little bit more one note as a man, corner, bump and run style of corner. So if this defense is continuing to evolve in years to come, I like bringing in DJ Reed,

not a guy who's got the kind of injury history that Carlton Davis has. So there's a lot of sense, I think, in making that move. I like that for them. It's not a wild overpay. And I still think if Ada Hutchison is healthy, if that front seven is healthy, period, we're going to get a much better version

than what we saw from the Lions defense in the last two months of the season. Yeah, Arnold is a key player. If Terry and Arnold makes a leap and you got Arnold, Brian Branch, DJ Reed, now working with something in that secondary. So I thought that was smart to say $4 million per year.

going from Carlton Davis to DJ Radar. Davis, we talked about Dolman, we talked about Fields, we talked about the Trevon Merrick T's that we had earlier. The Carolina Panthers sign, Trevon Merrick, three years, $51 million. But earlier in the day, extend J.C. who were in the corner four years. Now, I did see an up to here. So let's let the full details come out. I saw an up to, but $100 million.

dollars with 70 million guaranteed so 25 million dollars per year potentially which would make him the highest paid defensive back in NFL history Ruiz are you keep pounding where where are you with these they had to pay to keep pounding tax eventually like it's it's a monster deal deal it's a rich deal it's for a player who hasn't been able to stay healthy at all throughout his career but when he's on the field like he looks like a top corner he could be a top corner but this is a team that's gotten rid of their best player like five times over the last couple of years. They just couldn't afford to do that anymore. You can't afford to keep giving away talented players.

And I think like the front office, at least they stop that. They stop that trend from happening. So one of the first major Ws for Dan Morgan, the GM, I mean, I can't hate on this deal. Keeping talent in the locker room is always a good deal, especially for this team. Do you wait a year, though? I mean, I know usually I say don't wait a year, but he's played 37 games in four seasons. and you're paying him $25 million. Would you want to just see it for one more year and say,

hey, if we have to pay $27 million per year next off season, that's okay, but can we see him stay healthy? No, because the question has nothing to do with his play. It's not a sample size question. It's like, can you say healthy? And even if he gets injured again this year, you know, I don't know. You're right. Maybe they have more information and they're like,

these are fluky injuries. He's going to be fine. But it would make me a little nervous. Even if he stays healthy next year, that doesn't mean he's going to stay healthy beyond. So I don't even think you gleaned any information from giving him that extra year to kind of prove it. It's like Tua, for instance, two years ago, he stays healthy.

The Dolphins fans are like, oh, he's a healthy quarterback now. And then what happens the next year? I mean, Tua, just listening to this going, come on, you know? You know, the most, the rosiest interpretation of the J.C. Horn deal is that Dan Morgan looks at next year and says, Derek Singley and Amad Gardner are about to go back and forth for reset in the corner market. I do not want to be stuck third in line, having to pay my corner after the fact. after the fact, I don't want him waiting to see what their number is going to be and trying to negotiate against those numbers when it comes to our next extension.

So if you can get ahead of that, that makes a lot of sense. I don't hate it from that perspective. $25 million for a guy that has not been on the field, a bunch. Of course, is uncomfortable. But like Stephen said, this is not a matter of when he's healthy. We have questions. When he's healthy, he's a Pro Bowl level player. We've seen it now.

And like Stephen was saying, they've let their good players out of the door far too often in these situations as they're hit. their athletic prime. Keeping sure that you have him and Derek Brown who are supposed to be their tempoles on defense, you keep those guys in the building. If that's the way that you're trying to build this roster, it's the right thing to do to pay to keep those guys around.

This is for that one Panthers fan that had a Christian McCaffrey jersey, a Brian Burns jersey, a DJ Moore jersey, and then he bought a J.C. Horn jersey. They're like, we can't do it to him again. He's talking about himself here. No, no. My last panthers jersey was, what was it?

It's been a while. a while. I never got a Cam Newton jersey, so it wasn't during that area. It might have been a Jake Toulogh jersey, to be honest with you guys. Oh, man. There you go. All right, a couple more here to get to quickly. Bronco sign Tolanoa Hufunga, the 49er safety. Three years, $45 million. The injury thing comes up again here has played 17 games the past two seasons. Obviously can be a very high-level player when he stays on the field. Ruiz, what did you think of this one? I mean, it's a fun. It's a fun signing. It's a fun match. putting him in advanced Joseph defense.

I think we're going to get some coverage bust, but we're going to get some like Troy Palomalu-esque plays with him attacking the line of scrimmage. It's a system fit. It makes sense. Same concern that we've been kind of talking about with the last few players, injuries. Can he stay on the field?

When he does stay on the field, he's a very useful player, and I think he's going to be even more useful in that style of defense, more so than the 49er style. All right. I'm going to rotate between the two of you now. You can say, good deal. Or we're getting to that portion of the program here.

All right, we already hit on Odingbo. Giant signed Pulse and Adibo, but there are conflicting reports on the money, so let's wait for that one. Deontay, this one is another eye-popping one. Packer signed guard, Aaron Banks, four years, $77 million, over $19 million per year.

Your thoughts on the Packers paying that kind of money to Aaron Banks. I did not see a $19 million per year player, Aaron Banks. I just didn't. Like, talking with my buddy, I'm talking with my buddy, Justice Muscat and runs the acne packing company for SB Nation. He does a really good job of being on top of the kinds of offensive linemen that the Packers like. And we know that they like to spend high draft capital.

They will spend its re-agency for these guys. So I'm not necessarily shocked that they said, hey, this is a guy that meets all of our athletic prototypes, right? He checks all the boxes from that respect. He has some experience in a similar scheme, having played in San Francisco. So we know that he's going to walk in the door. and he knows all of the, he's going to know all of the terminology. This is a succession plan for them in terms of interior offensive lineman in case other guys leave in years to come

or they're not able to retain certain guys. He can slot in and be a guard for them for the next few years and be probably above average, right? I do see an above average player in Aaron Banks. I just don't see like this is tent pole type of money to play for a guard. I don't know if Aaron makes us a tent pole type of player. And I would say just in general for the Packers, they've spent in ways that have been kind of surprising to me.

I knew that they had an opportunity to spend some money to try to make some big upgrades, obviously not able to acquire a wide receiver or less a high-end wide receiver in DK Metcalf weren't able to trade for him. I just didn't think that this is where the spending would go if they weren't able to find a high-profile player. Yeah, that was a surprising number for, you know, you might even be being a little generous saying you see an above-average player. Maybe an average type.

Maybe average right. I don't know. It's a lot of money for a player like that. You know, another guy, Ruiz, offensive lineman got paid. Titan sign Dan Moore, Steelers left tackle. Four years, $82 million with $50 million guaranteed. What did you think of that movie? When I saw the number, I was shocked, but I honestly don't hate it. I think, like, given his age and when he was drafted,

draft in 2021, I don't think he's a needle-moving tackle. like when he goes up against star pass rushers he tends to struggle but I do think he is an above average one who can develop into something more if you give him just some time to simmer and get him in your system and coach him up I do think there's a chance like three years from now we're like that's a pretty good value for that guy uh so I'm gonna say good deal even though it's a big number and I think one that surprised a lot of people at least he's young he's you know young yeah I was shocked he's got a generic name and that kind of hurts him that hurts you know no doubt about it and It does. You know, the Steelers did not want to hold on to him and pay him that money.

Does that tell us anything? I don't know. They could get the evaluation wrong. They spent a draft pick at left tackle. So maybe that's the case. But yeah, that was one I did not see coming. I will finish with one of my favorite signings of the day. You know, I like the under the radar. Viking sign Isaiah Rogers, two years, $15 million. Now, that's what I'm talking about. A little low level. Maybe there's some upside. He's going to be 27. You don't have to break the bank. you can just be an average corner and you're getting good value out of that. So I would much rather do Isaiah Rogers two years, 15 million than some of those other cornerback contracts that we mentioned.

All right, let's finish with some trade talk, one that broke while we were on the pod. A blockbuster. Kenny Pickett, Deontay, you're going to be, yeah, I got to get your take on this. You don't have to watch Kenny Pickett in the preseason next year. Kenny Pickett goes from the Eagles to. the Browns for a fifth round pick and Dorian Thompson, Robinson. Are you more excited to watch? DTR.

First of all, this is kind of shocking. Why are the Browns giving up a fifth round pick for Kenny Pickett? And your quarterback. That's crazy. It didn't sink in it until I was sitting out loud. I'm like, wait, the Browns actually gave up a pick for Kenny Pickett. That's kind of shocking to me, DeAte. If I'm Tanner Rakee, I'm sitting home like,

I had to be the emergency quarterback all the last season for you guys to get DTR and a fifth round picket for Kenny Pickett. That's what all of last year was for. I knew, I think that in talking with people who cover the Eagles on a day-to-day basis, obviously I think that it was pretty clear that they were going to be looking to move Pickett after the season was over,

see if they could get any value for them. I'm not surprised he got moved with that in the back of my mind. I'm just shocked that Cleveland would give away any draft capital at all for a guy who did not look good when he did have to play. Was a backup never looked like he could be a friend starter. And you're looking at his starting film in Pittsburgh. It was amongst the worst in the NFL when he was a full-time starter. I don't know why we'd be giving up DTR to bring in Kenny Pickett. Well, what is that getting you any closer to in terms of your quarterback situation?

I don't think that that's a better quarterback room than what they already had. They should have tried to trade for Tanner McKee. You know, show a little, let's show some flashes. The better. They traded for the wrong guy of Philadelphia. Yeah. That's crazy. Oh, my gosh.

All right. Let's finish with some of these trades we haven't gotten to. The Steelers side, speaking of Kenny Pickett, of the D.K. Metcalf trade here, Ruiz, they give up a second round pick. They're paying D.K. Metcalfe. I think the new money is $32 million per year. We talked about the Seahawks side of that. What do you think of the Steelers side of that D. Kaff trade. It kind of just seems random for them. I know, I guess they're not totally sold on

George Pickens' feature with the team, but D.K. Kaff, there's a five-year commitment. I know they're probably not going to get to the end of that deal. It's a lot of money. It's only a second-round pick, but I just don't understand how he fits into the Arthur Smith offense and how that gets them any closer to winning the AFC North. It seems like a luxury move for them, if anything, I don't like this move at all for that team in particular. And I'm not a huge fan at the player as I've made clear over the past couple of pods. Yeah, I would have liked this for, like I said, during our last pot, if the Chiefs made this deal, I would have been like, I'm in.

I like this move. It is a, now the Steelers have just been looking for a wide receiver. It feels like for, you know, they had that stretch where Kevin Colbert was just like drafting an all pro every year. And then now they're just looking for a wide receiver. It feels like every offseason, there was IUC. There were other guys. They never landed any of them.

And now, so now they trade for D.K. Metcalfe. I don't think it's, I'm with you. Like, we look at the Steelers and they're like, they're not going anywhere. They're probably looking at it like, we like the wide receiver. He's, you know, what, 27 years old or something? He's young. It's hard to acquire these guys. We're not giving up a first round pick.

And it's kind of the market rate for a player of his caliber. So I don't mind it from that perspective. But I agree with you that, you know, it's probably not going to make a difference one way or another. Deonti, did you have strong feelings about that D.K. Mek-F trade? I really didn't. I have maybe stronger feelings about five for 150, right? That being the extension, I'm just surprised that D.K. McCaff was able to get a five-year deal, a five-year deal on the back end of this.

I thought the compensation that Pittsburgh gave up to acquire him made a lot of sense and was kind of in line with the conversation we had when it seemed like trade news was starting to pick up steam for DK that he wasn't going to be. It wasn't going to be a day one pick. So I'm not, I'm happy with that from Pittsburgh's perspective. I just look at the combination of George Pickings and D.K. Metcalf. And like Stephen said, I just don't know what that gets you closer to doing offensively, except running like those 15-yard deep end breakers on play action. Like, okay, you have a guy that can fit the proverbial A.J. Brown role in the A.J. Smith offense. But that's not A.J. Brown. You did not just go get A.J. Brown.

So I'm now, I guess it just makes it that much more fascinating than what they do at quarterback. because pickings and Metcalf are specific kinds of wide receivers that I think play best with the specific kind of quarterback. And I don't think that any old body can just walk in there and get the most out of either of those two guys and definitely the two in tandem. It almost seems like they're destined to bring back Russell Wilson at this point with the offensive.

Lean into the big. Let's just throw 40-yard moonballs downfield every drive. And maybe that will work out. But yeah, I'm with you. I don't get the fit with the offense. And maybe it's like trying to recreate that Titans team where they did have not only AJ Brown, but they also had Corey Davis just hauling in every pass that they threw deep. Maybe that's the formula.

But you don't have Derek Henry, you don't have the offensive line that Tennessee had. So I don't know how that works out. All right. And we finish with the moment the audience has been waiting for. Gino Smith has a new team. He's going to Vegas. Is Ruiz moving to Vegas now? You know, just to be closer to Gino.

It's a nice stadium. You know, it's a nice stadium to go watch those games. This will be the last stage of Gino Smith's career. We assume, you know, maybe he'll go TB12 and play to his 45. But if not, we figure these will be the last two or three or four years of Gino Smith's career. Ruiz, as the biggest Gino stand out there, are you happy that he goes to Vegas to play with Pete Carroll? and Brock Bowers and Tom Brady and gets away from Seattle, or are you nervous about his fit with the Las Vegas Raiders?

I mean, you're always nervous because the Raiders haven't feel a good offense and what feels like forever, but I am happy that he was able to get out of that Seattle situation, which seems to be getting worse before it's getting better. Like he lost his top two wide receivers. The offensive line doesn't seem to be any better than it was before the offseason started. I'm excited for this Raiders team. Throwing Chip Kelly into the mix and what he's learned from his time away from the NFL.

He seems to be an evolved coach. And I do think this reflects well on Tom Brady. His first big move is acquiring a quarterback who I believe is a top 10 quarterback for only a third round pick. I still think he has a lot of good football ahead of him. And if you listen to Tom Brady, commentate the Bill Seahawks game, it is very clear that he is a big fan of Gino Smith and maybe even a member of Gino Nation. There you go. Deontae, your thoughts, Gino. Don't hate it.

Just giving up a third round pick to bring in a quarterback. that can start for you for the next two years. It's smart. Keeps you away from having to over-reaching his draft class. So I think this is probably the best outcome for them. You're not relying on a Justin Field surge. You're not relying on Sam Donald replicating what he was in 2024. You don't have to bring in the old-washed guys like Russell Wilson or Aaron Rogers, right?

And he missed out on Matt Stafford. This is probably the best consolation prize you can get if you're not able to go acquire Matthew Stafford in the off-season. So I'm really happy from that perspective. I think that I think if you're Pete Carroll, you're elated. If you're Chip Kelly, you're elated. You have an adult in the room that you can start to build an offense around, right? I do think that now you should be looking at, you should be looking at the Raiders and wondering if they can be 500, if they nail the drafts,

if they're able to build this defense around Max Crosby and Christian Wilkins stays healthy in 2025, you might have an opportunity to at least be competitive in the AFC West. And I think that that's a big success given the way they looked at points last season. I think Tom Brady watched the Seahawks offense last year and saw himself in that last year with the bucks, where no offensive line, no offense of line, no run game. The team knows you're passing the football. You have no time to pass the football. And he still stood in the pocket and went through his progressions and made strong throws down field. Like that's Gino Smith to a T last year.

And it really shined through when Tom Brady was talking about not only Gino Smith's performance, but the setup. of the offense and why it was so flawed. And the fact that they couldn't run the football or prevent teams from pinning their ears back and rushing the quarterback. So I think Tom Brady is very high on Gino Smith. And I wouldn't be surprised if the contract he ends up getting, I know it's been reported like around 40 million.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a little bit higher than that, even. I think it's a good reminder that not every organization is on the same timeline. The Raiders are not going to win the Super Bowl. But they've made the playoffs twice. in the last 20 years. And so when you hire Pete Carroll as your head coach, you're not looking five, six, eight years down the road.

And we can say, well, that's a dumb thing to do. They should hire someone else. That's a conversation for a different day. But once you make that decision, it's like, all right, now what are we going to do? And you look at the quarterback options out there. They didn't give up, you know, multiple first round. Think of a third round pick for Gino Smith.

I think it establishes a floor for your quarterback. play. We'll see what they do with the rest of the supporting cast. But like if they make the playoffs as a nine and eight wildcard team one time in the next three seasons, that's success. And you're a 30 year old Raiders fan. That's like one of the best seasons you've had as a fan. And it doesn't preclude you from doing other stuff. I do think that's a key. If you see a quarterback you like, you can take the quarterback. You're still drafting young players and trying to build that way and build up. It just buys you a couple years of, hey, we have sub one. We don't have to go do something crazy for a quarterback right now.

So I like the move for it. There's certainly more interesting. I mean, they are an interesting team now. Pete, think of all the guys you just mentioned. Pete Carroll, Chip Kelly, Tom Brady. Like that is, it's sort of, I don't know who's making the decisions, how all those, then maybe we'll hear some stuff about some, you know, back channel. I don't know if everyone's going to get along or what, but they're at least a little more

relevant than they have been. They retain Patrick Graham, too. They obviously re-signed Max Crowley last weekend. Any trade speculation with him? This is a good time to be a Raiders fan. I know we haven't been able to say that often. But this off-season, I feel like by August, there's going to be a lot of buzz around this team,

possibly making the playoffs. Very happy for Raiders fans and Austin Gale specifically. All right, we got to a bunch of stuff. If we didn't get to it, we will get to it in the next episode. Also, check out on the ringer.com. Top 100 sports moments of this. This Century, fun sort of group project for everybody at the Ringer. Very cool thing we put to, I shouldn't say weep now.

I'm taking credit for it. I only contribute to like a couple things. A very cool thing that the Ringer put together. So be sure to check that out. All right. Thank you to Deontay Lee. Thank you to Stephen Ruiz. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing additional production supervision by

Connor Nevins and Arjuna. Ram Gopal. I'm Shil Kapati. We'll talk to you next time on the Ringer NFL show.