The Ringer NFL Show - NFL Midseason Awards Show. Plus, Trade Deadline Reactions!

Episode Date: November 6, 2024

To celebrate the passing of the NFL trade deadline, The Ringer’s Sheil Kapadia, Steven Ruiz, Nora Princiotti, and Diante Lee gather to offer immediate reactions to the biggest deals of the day and how they’ll ultimately impact the rest of the season (00:00). Then, the crew dishes out their midseason awards in seven categories (18:05). Hosts: Sheil Kapadia, Nora Princiotti, Diante Lee, and Steven Ruiz Producer: Troy Farkas Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody. Chris Vernon here and welcome to a new season of the NBA and the mismatch. And huge welcome as well to my new co-host, Dave Jacoby. I can't wait to link with you twice a week every Tuesday and Friday right here on the mismatch to break down everything that's happening in the league. Who's playing well, who we loved, who we loath, trade rumors, team dysfunction. We've got you covered right here. So follow us, subscribe and hit us with those five-star ratings on Spotify or wherever you get you. podcast. And also don't forget to follow us on social media. That's at Ringer NBA and check out the full mismatch episodes with the two handsomest podcasters in the history of podcasting right in

the Ringer NBA YouTube channel. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. Shield Kapati here. We've got the full crew together today. A mid-season spectacular, Nora Princiotti, Stephen Ruiz, and Deonté Lee. Everybody is in the house. We're going to talk some trade deadline. But more importantly, We're going to get to our mid-season awards, which I don't think we're going to agree on a lot of those, maybe one or two here and there. But Nora, how are we doing? How's trade deadline day? And among other things happening today, treating you so far. What a day for cable television.

I mean, it really is something. They move the trade deadline and look what happens. There you go. It's a great day for punditry in general. It's a great day for punditry. and I feel lucky to be a part of it with you guys. Yeah, college me would have been doom scrolling for a very long time today if this were happening while I was still in school.

Yeah, that's certainly a thing I've given up since leaving college is doom scrolling. It's the only thing I do. That's like, I mean, I feel like I apply it to all of all walks of life to. Like I do this career via doom scroll, I feel like. Yeah, it's definitely part of it. It is hard to log off. As we know, as probably many of you listening know, on a day like today. All right, we're going to do some trade deadline stuff off the top.

NFL keeps trying to make this like a big thing where it's like, no, the trades happen in the weeks leading up to the trade deadline. It's not all at the last second. But we did get some today. And so we're going to focus on kind of the three biggest ones we saw today. Let's start with the Detroit Lions, probably the favorites in the NFC right now with the way they've been playing. They lose Aidan Hutchinson to that big injury a few weeks ago. And they acquires a Darius Smith from the Cleveland Browns for a fifth and a sixth. They also get a seventh back in return. Ruiz, what do you think this move for the Detroit Lions?

I mean, I think it was the obvious move, and I think we all thought they were going to make this move once Aidan Hutchinson went down with that injury in week six in the win over the Cowboys. I hadn't realized how bad the pass rush had gotten since that injury, especially on third down, because you haven't really noticed it because the offense has been just steam rolling over teams. They've created turnovers on defense. So third down defense hadn't been a concern for them over the last three weeks, I'd say.

but their pressure rate on third down has dropped to 20%. It was 53% before the 8 in Hutchinson injury. Wow. They had five sacks on third down before the Hutchinson injury. They have won since then. So their pressure and sack rates are way down. We haven't seen a team exploit that yet, but you have to imagine in the playoffs,

they're going to come across the quarterback who can exploit that issue and there's going to be different game scripts. So I think this was a move they had to make, and I don't know if Zay Smith is going to be able to provide 80% of what Hutchinson provided that defense, but he might not have to because the rest of the team is just built so solidly. So, I mean, it's a fifth and a six they gave to Cleveland. I don't think they're going to regret the day they gave up two, third, day three picks for Zay Smith,

even if he's not a player that they expect him to be. So a good move, a low-risk move. I don't know how much it moves the needle, but it doesn't need to move the needle much to be a successful trade for them. Yeah, it at least gives them something. There was no home run to, you know, there was no swing for the fences to be had here. Max Crosby did not. get moved. No one like that got moved. So you're looking for a short-term fix. Veteran pass

rusher can obviously line up on the edge, line up on the interior. And it gives them something. Like you said, if I were a GM and my team was contendant, take any day three pick you want. Go ahead and take it. I'm trying to win right now. So yeah, I like that move for the Lions as well. Next one, the Pittsburgh Steelers who have been looking for a wide receiver for what, nine months, 10 months now, whatever it is. They've been involved in every rumor. They acquire Mike Williams. from the Jets. I'm sure Aaron Rogers was heartbroken about this trade for a fifth round pick. Nora,

I feel like every time we're doing a podcast together, there's something happening with the Jets. So let's throw this one to you. Steelers, Mike Williams from the Jets. What do you think? Well, for the Jets, it just seemed kind of obvious ever since they got Devante Adams. I mean, even before then since that week six game against the bills

where it ends, Rogers throwing the interception, and then kind of calling Mike Williams. out for running the wrong route after the game. I think it's felt like he was going to be either severely minimized in this offense or removed from it entirely. I believe I saw, oh gosh, I hope I'm giving the right credit here. I think Jeremy Fowler saying on ESPN earlier today that he had not necessarily requested a trade, but just said like, it's fine if you get a good offer.

I'm not going to make a fuss about it. So I'm sure that Mike Williams, who had definitely been de-emphasized in that passing game, is probably pretty okay with being shipped out of New York. It just seemed like that was something that was only a matter of time. And then for the Steelers, I like this a lot. I mean, I don't think that they're getting peak Mike Williams, but he's still, I think he's got something. I think it was just a bad fit in New York and he never got on the same page with Rogers. And then in that Pittsburgh offense, I think he's the type of receiver, you know, that 6-4 big body vertical outside ex-guy who is something they really don't have.

You know, George Pickens is a different type of receiver, Calvin Austin slot guy. Like there's nobody like that on their roster right now. I don't, I still don't know how to feel about the Steelers in general, how to feel about that passing game in general because every week I look at it and just go like, how is this happening? I don't understand it. But if you think of that sort of basketball team analogy, I think he's a really good fit there because it's something that

he doesn't have that they have. And if they're just going to like lean into the let's let Russ throw moonballs downfield offense, which I think they should. That should be the whole passing game. They should do it 15 times a game and see what happens. Then Mike Williams is a good quarterback or good receiver to have for that type of quarterback because Russ is going to give him a chance. he's going to throw the ball up. It's going to be a jump ball. And Mike Williams may not be

able to separate at this point in his career. You know, he's coming back from injury. So we don't know what he's going to look like going forward. But he can win a jump ball still. And I think Russ is going to give him a chance to win those jump balls more often than not. It kind of feels like they're building like a discount version or like a team move version of like the 20, 22 Eagles offense where we have these two guys that can win on the outside if you, you know, cover them one-on-one. And if you don't, cover one-on-one. We're going to run the ball because we have a run scheme that can take advantage of that. I don't think it's going to be quite as effective as it was for Philadelphia, but I think it will be

good enough to get this team to the playoffs, which is probably the goal. I mean, and I think that on a base level for Pittsburgh, they probably needed another playmaker that was a hedge against George Pickens. Like, we are just like one month removed from Mike Tomlin, basically having to go out publicly and say, like, we think we kind of have to minimize this guy's usage and how much we rely on this dude in order to make sure that he's playing at the level that we need him to. And I think that there is a little bit of effort stuff that was tied into that as well. And obviously, you know, the people who are pulling clips of George Pickens kind of half-ass running through routes at different points in the season have made a big deal of that. And I think that if you do want to have, to Stephen's

point, that 20-plus area on-on-play action passes as often as I think you need to with Russell Wilson as your quarterback, you need another jump ball guy. You can't rely on George Pickens to be the one who's always going to win those high variance possessions because we've been waiting for years now for him for him to be that receiver. And it's just entirely possible that that's not the best use of him. He probably needs to be played in spurts a little bit more often than he is right now. I mean, if there's any coach who knows how to kind of navigate a moody wide receiver, it's probably like Toblin. I mean, dealing with George Pickens probably feels like dealing with Jerry Rice compared to what he was doing with, dealing with Antonio Brown and Labion Bell.

So you guys that are very interested in the results of today. It seems to be that he's just like a little bit of a punk maybe. Yeah, yeah. As far as Mike Tomlin. Every couple of weeks he gets disinterested and he doesn't try as hard. It's fine. Who among us doesn't check out at work every once in a while? I was going to say, I was like, shoot, man, I got to look in the mirror with that kind of

description. You know, sometimes every couple of weeks, it's like, ah, I'm not my best call. That's okay. You know, you push through. You send it in and you move on to the next one there. Yeah, I'm picturing defensive schemes like, you know, at the end of game when they're like, don't let these guys get to the sideline, keep them in balance.

Teams are just going to do that the entire game to this deal. You really don't need to have a defender in the middle of the field. The ball is not, the ball is going outside the numbers on 90% of Russell Wilson throws. You know, the other ones might be a little checkdowns. But I like it. Lean into what the quarterback's going to do at this point. I don't know where it's going to get you, but it's a fifth round pick. And like you guys were saying, it's not like they had, you know, they were thrown a

what, Van Jefferson all due respect on the outside there. so this is a more talented receiver with a little more upside. So yeah, I like the move too from the Steelers. And then finally, the Washington commanders acquire Marshaun Latimore from the New Orleans Saints who also fired their head coach, I believe since we last spoke in Dennis Allen. They get a third, a fourth, and a sixth, and in return for Marshawn Latimore and a fifth.

So I thought pretty good return for the New Orleans Saints here, Deante, I don't know which side of this interests you more. The New Orleans Saints finally saying, all right, let's maybe get rid of some of our players and accumulate some draft capital or the commander saying, hey, let's build a weak position because right now we have a chance to make some noise in the NFC. Well, I think you could look at it from both perspectives, pardon me. I think from Washington's perspective, they needed to add playmaking talent in the back seven. Like, that was an issue for them.

They also have to add pass rushing talent. There just weren't as many names available. I think could have stepped in and made an immediate impact for them. So if you can't get an edge rusher, then getting a guy like Marshawn Latimore, especially at a discounted rate, I think for them when you think about what his ceiling is, even if he hasn't been the same player he was when it seemed like he was going to be a perennial all pro shut down corner a few seasons ago. So I like that from that perspective, just getting a high profile name on the depth chart at

corner. They also, I think, need to play more man. I think Mina Kimes from ESPN tweeted this out right, that Dan Quinn doesn't play a lot more, kind of soft zone shells. And there's a space, there's a space in the time for that. But I think for his defense to be at its peak capacity, you need to have a number one corner that allows you to play more single high and more man coverage. So obviously, Marshawn-Ladamour will go a long way towards accomplishing that.

But to your point, Sheel, I care more about this from the other side, looking at the Saints, and trying to figure out exactly what the timeline is that they're trying to set themselves up for with this roster pivot. I know our old buddy at the ringer Ben Solek was tweeting about Marshawn Lattermore's cap hit earlier this morning. Basically, they're only going to be saving like a half million dollars, basically, in cap. And he's still going to count against their dead cap up to 26. So I think from the Saints perspective, the thing that I was trying to figure out is why position yourself to take this long window of rebuilding when it probably would have made more financial sense

to renegotiate and extend, get his cap hit down in the coming years, and deal with him at a different point in time. I think now what they've done is they've kind of forced themselves to have to come back to the table with Ryan Ramshik, with DeMario Davis, with a lot of their vets that are going to need to have their contracts converted into bonuses and take dead cap into further into the future in order for them to have something viable in the coming year. So I just don't understand why this was the move when you could have just held on. So you're probably your best defender outside of DeMario Davis, figured out his contract situation, and maybe found other ways to tank, but I think that their cap is going to be so tied up in 2025 and

26 that this might end up being a three to four year roster pivot just based on some of the money they have tied up at other positions now. It's going to get bleak real fast. And the last person standing might be Derek Carr. Is it like Derek Carr is going to be like the Fresh Prince meme where he's like sitting there and no one's sitting in an empty house? Except instead of having Will Smith standing there, you have Carlton standing there in Derek car.

Yeah, it's going to be a, I don't even know. Like, honestly, it's a great conversation that we should probably have in depth at a future point. Like, all right, we know none of us agreed with the mess they got themselves into, but say they call you up right now and say, hey, help me get out of this mess. What steps do you take? Because I don't want to say unprecedented, but it is just, I mean, they don't have much on that roster. They're in bad shape. They've been trying to win eight or nine games every year.

They just fired their coach. The GM just seems to have like immunity, I guess. He's just going to be there forever. We'll see if Mickey Loomis sticks around in the off season. Deonti, to your question, all I can think of is they thought this is like a decent hall, you know, because as cornerbacks get older, you know, when Darius Lay got traded from the lines to the Eagles a few years ago, it was kind of a similar haul. I think it was actually less than what they're getting for Latimore.

And then you save some money just in cash. Hey, you don't have to pay him money, which the, you know, hey, owner, we like this. at least we don't have to pay him this kind of money. But you're right. I mean, they're just in a very strange spot right now where this doesn't give them, like great financial relief where this is the first step really towards getting out of that hole. It's more, hey, accumulate draft capital.

Maybe you hit on some of these picks. Now you have players on cheaper contracts. They got a lot of stuff to sort through here. But the commanders at a player, I like it, Nora, we were talking about, I think, on a recent show, like there is something to be said for just trying to go make the playoffs and maybe win a game, even if you don't think you're going to win the Super Bowl. And I think that definitely holds true for an organization like the commanders that has just been like a beaten down fan base.

The vibes are good to make a move like this. Well, not only that, if that's the type of, you know, maybe you're not setting your sights on we're going to win the Super Bowl immediately, but they've had such a good season thus far. Making the playoffs, winning a playoff game, even just won, as you said, would be so meaningful for that organization. And think about some of the opponents who, you know, they might end up matched up with or have to beat in the, in the NFC or even in their own division, if you're facing AJ Brown, if you're facing Devante Smith,

someone who you feel good about lining up against those guys is something they didn't really have. So I think I totally agree that it doesn't, the return doesn't have to be like two interceptions in the NFC title game and they go to the Super Bowl for something like this to just be really, really meaningful to an organization that's had so little success. But I also think that if you think of the playoffs in mind, like, you can really see the value of going and making a move like this. So I'm totally with you. I don't think it has to be

like a big long run for everything to feel just good in a way that it hasn't in so long in Washington. But I also, they've just been really good. And I think it's a good move to make. And I do think you can start to have slightly longer term than that conversations with this team. Yeah, and this isn't like a one-year rental either. He still has two years beyond this year on his deal, and it's not terribly expensive. It's $18 million per, and it's just $2 million each year in roster bonuses. So, you know, they have some leverage if they want to renegotiate that deal and bring down his cap number next year, or they could just leave it as is and just move on in two years if he's not, or even cut him next year if he's not what they thought.

But, like, that's what I had in my notes. This is a trade about beating the Eagles and having a guy that can stick with A.J. Brown and DeVante Smith on the outside because that's what the Eagles are going to want to do. And that's what Lattimore specializes in, guarding vertical routes down the field. We've seen that throughout his career. I don't know if he still has the same juice he had when he was at the top of his game a couple of years ago. But you watch the tape and he's still hanging with those receivers. It's actually a clip from when the Eagles play the Saints. Jalen Hurts throws a deep ball down the sideline to Devonte Smith. It's a bad throw. But Marshall and Latimore is there and makes a good play on the

ball. Yeah, he'll lie, I think to Deontes point, he allows you to play a certain type of way. He's a veteran, he can be on an island with some of those guys and to what you guys were saying. He's young enough under contract where this isn't a half season rental, has had some injury stuff. So that that obviously is going to be a concern. But could work out well for the Washington commanders. All right, those were the big trades today. There were some other minor ones that we're not going to get into here.

We will have some winners and losers on the ringer.com. So be sure to check those out. We're all contributing to that one. So you can find out what we thought about a bunch of these trades and what the teams did. at the trade deadline. We take a break. We come back. We do some awards.

Who do we have? Who are our runner-ups after nine weeks? The midpoint of the season will get into all of that in a moment here. All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. We are doing MVP.

We are doing coach. We are doing offensive player of the year, defensive player of the year, offensive rookie, defensive rookie. And then Ruiz said, let's throw the assistant some love, which, of course. I mean, listen, you can't be a good podcaster

2024 without having your people as offensive and defensive coordinators that you either want to praise or trash on pretty much any piece of content you do. So we're going to do that as well. What order should we do? Do we want a buildup to MVP conversation? Do we just want to lead with the big one? Is that better podcasting in case, you know, people don't get all the way to the end? Who has words of wisdom here for us? I think we'll start with the big one. Yeah, start with the big one. Yeah, I think we show with the big one. Okay. We're all on the same page. We have short of text. expansion spans. It's 2024. Yeah, we might forget by the end of it. Like Steven said,

we got doom scrolling to get back to. Let's get the big ones out the way. There you go. All right. Let's start with MVP. Again, for each of these, we each chose who we're actually going with. This is the MVP for the first nine weeks of the season. And then a runner up, Nora, start us off. Who do you got? Wait, I have a question before we start. Is this legal for Nora? I remember there were some questions about you talking about your awards. She can't bet on it. Because she votes, right? Yeah.

But this is the halfway point of the season. She's not betting on it. She's just telling us what she prefers. I was just trying to create. The email hasn't gone out yet. I was trying to create some drama. I know she's going to give us her picks anyway. It would be bad content if she just stood here like AJ Hawke and didn't say anything.

I think this might be kind of anticlimactic because I'm pretty sure we did this two weeks ago. But I am sticking with my pick from then. It is Lamar Jack. in it is, to my eye, the quarterback who has just had the most obvious impact elevating his team. All the stats back it up. He's first in EPA per pass play. He's first in dropback success rate. He is pretty likely on his way to a season where he could have 4,000 passing yards and

1,000 rushing yards, which would be really impressive. He's the quarterback of the best offense in the NFL, and he is very clearly, clearly, the elevator of that offense. We can talk about some runner-up contenders, but to me, this was one of the easy ones. Does anybody not have Lamar Jackson as their MVP speaking? No, why would I not have a... I'm not, no, no.

You know why you're being looked at right now. No, Lamar Jackson's the MVP, without a doubt. I don't have Justin Herbert on my ballot, on my two column ballot, so... How many columns? Does it take to get to Herbert? All right. Five, five, five.

Still haven't met fit. So we all have Lamar Jackson. Yeah, I honestly don't have a lot more to add. We've talked about Lamar Jackson a lot. You spelled it out well there. Nora, it's just, I mean, what more is to say? He's played awesome. He hasn't had bad games.

He's throwing it. He's running it. They have the best offense in the NFL. There's no argument that's like, oh, the pieces around him are lifting him up. No, no, no. He is lifting everybody else up. He's playing better than he did in either of his first two MVP seasons, which is really saying something. So we can move on to the runner-ups, which I think are going to be probably way more interesting.

Deante, give us your- I read your column show. I know where you're going with this, and I'm ready to fight about it. Shoot, dang. This is like when you put your fantasy stuff out there and then you're in your league and everyone knows who you like. But that's okay. Not everyone who's listening read the column. Hopefully they did, but I don't think that's realistic.

All right, Deonti, who do you got? Who's your runner-up? I mean, if you listen to the weekly preview pod, I am the guy that likes to take the long plus odds on a weekly basis. This is probably one of those moments where I just don't have to outthink myself, right? We're just going with Josh Allen. To me, it's Josh Allen. We've been talking about it on a week-by-week basis. You take out that blip in the schedule where they played awfully against Houston.

Baltimore dominates them the week prior. And you look at the season in the whole, I mean, I've talked about him being great in the red zone, great on third downs. He's been as accurate as we've ever seen in his career. And they're just able to lean on him every time they need a play. And he seems to come through, whether it's scrambling or playing it from the pocket. To me, I think that you can maybe throw a Patrick Mahomes in there from the sense of like playing well, playing well an undefeated team. But if you're talking about pure impact on a down-to-down basis, week-to-week basis,

right now to me it seems pretty clear that Josh Allen is the number two in the league. We spent hours. There were hours of podcasting committed last season about, oh, Josh Allen's throwing too many picks. Josh Allen's throwing too many picks. He's thrown two. And he's still playing the same chaotic style, too. It's not like he changed his ways.

Yeah. But when it was breaking the wrong way last year, we talked it to death. And now it's going the other way. And it's just like, ah, Josh Allen, pretty good. That's a man with conviction. He has conviction in the way he plays. And I like that.

The luck is breaking. his way this year, and we're seeing, you know, that not affect his stats in the same way it did last year. But the playmaking is still there, the daring playmaking, the touchdown throw we had on Sunday where he like flips it and he's about to get hit. And he has to, it's like almost an anticipatory throw. He almost threw the guy open with a flick of his wrist. That was crazy. Like, I mean, if we had beaten that out of him, if Sean McDermott had like discipline, finger wagged that out of him, I would have been so disappointed. But he didn't do that. Like you see Patrick Mahomes, who I think is the best quarterback, uh,

ever basically. He kind of became like a nerd at the quarterback position. He checks it down all the time. He doesn't take these chances as much as he used to. And meanwhile, Josh Allen just like, screw it. I don't care. I'm just going to keep doing this. And if they complain about the turnovers,

I'll just point to the scoreboard. And I'll point to the overall results, which has still been very good. I have to say, I loved, you mentioned my home. So I have to get this takeoff. In that, Xavier Worthy, you know, in that early on does not get his feet in on that beautiful deep ball from Patrick Mahomes.

And like Troy Aikman couldn't get it out of his head. It's like the fourth quarter other stuff's happening. And he's referencing it like Troy Aikman's going to be 85 years old, just going up to strangers being like Xavier Worthy, week nine, 20, 24. What was he doing? How did he not get his feet in there?

So yes, I just had to mention that. So Ruiz, you have Josh Allen as your runner up as well? Yeah. And Nora, do you have Josh Allen as you're runner up? I do.

All right. Well, I'm going with somebody else. We'll spice it up. a little bit. We can't be boring on the Ringer NFL show. I'm going with my boy, Jaden Daniels, ahead of Josh Allen. There is such a strong statistical case, and I test, take, and whatever else you want that Jaden Daniels deserves to be in the number two spot. Bill's Mafia, don't get mad at me. I've defended you on podcasts and written content for years. I got Josh Allen number three,

but the commander's offense statistically is better than the Bill's offense statistically. And I think if you look at their supporting cast, you would say the bill certainly have a better offensive line than the Washington commanders. We can talk about how much Cliff Kingsbury does for Daniels versus Joe Brady does for Josh Allen. We can discuss those things. And then supporting cast, I don't think Josh Allen has anyone like Terry McLaren, but I think if you took the groups as a whole, I don't think there's a huge difference there. So Daniels right now, second behind Lamar Jackson and EPA per pass play. He's run for 459 yards. And then if you look at some of the stuff we usually like to look at on this podcast about

is this quarterback related or scheme related. He is first an EPA per pass play when pressured. He on third and fourth downs in those got to have it. We know you're going to pass situations. He's second an EPA per pass play to Patrick Mahomes. So I just looked at it. And in my head, I'm like, oh, I'm not saying I would rather have Jade and Daniels over Josh Allen this weekend, the rest of the season, the next 10 years.

I'm not saying that. but when I looked at the entire body of work from the first nine weeks of the season, I felt like Jaden Daniels has a slight edge with how he's performed. All right, who wants to go first and tell me why I'm getting booted off the podcast and won't be allowed to make any more selections

for the rest of the show. First of all, you are saying that. You are saying you'd rather have them than Josh Allen. That's what the MVP award is about. It's who's the most valuable, and you're saying that Jaden Daniels has been more valuable to Washington. Most valuable through the midpoint. Who's been the most valuable through the midpoint of the season?

What do you mean? That's the award. This isn't a projection. Well, that's true. So your contention is that if you swap these quarterbacks, that the results would be the same? Or what do you? I think they would be very similar.

Yeah. If you swap these two quarterbacks, like if you put Josh Allen in this commander's offense, I think it would probably perform at a very similar level. But I'm struggling like what are the specific ways where it would be better? Like, is there meat? Where is the meat left on the bone with this commander's offense? They're second in the NFL and they're throwing to Noah Brown and Zach Ertz and Austin Echler. I mean, I just don't understand how anyone could like really operate this offense better than he's operated the offense this year. Well, I do think that's a good point.

I do think his talent has allowed them to field this offense. But I think the offense, there is question marks about the longevity of the offense. And I still have those question marks. You could still see how hard they fight to stay ahead of the chains. and if they don't, if they fall behind the chains, they do, they are, they do have good EPA numbers on third down, uh,

and success rate numbers. But like when you watch the plays, these aren't like the dropbacks you're seeing with Patrick Mahomes go through on, on third long. He's not like in a pocket where it's collapsing and nobody's open and they're facing man coverage. And part of that is the constraints he puts on the defense as a runner because you have to keep them in the pocket.

You can't play man coverage. You can't turn your back to the pocket. But you can just, you watch and guys are getting scheme. open. Like, he's making good throws on top of that, but the bulk of his production is coming off of schemed up plays that other quarterbacks don't necessarily get the opportunity to cash in on. And then the other thing I'll point out is Marcus Marriota look pretty good in the office. I mean, there's not a lot of data to back that up. I'm just saying if you look at how often he's

throwing into a tight window, what his expected completion percentages, I understand what you're saying. He does, it's a lot of throws to the first read, but like, I don't know. I don't know how much I'm supposed to die. That's a good conversation. That's a good conversation for if we're saying, can this sustain? And I agree with that, that like by the end of the season, my ballot might look differently. But in terms of the types of throws, he's making, I think he's making a lot of difficult throws. But yeah, the thing I'm finding hard, the leap I'm finding hard to make is going back to the Josh Allen point where you're right. Like, there's no evidence to suggest that it would be worse if you put Jaden Daniels in there. But like, let's use common sense. Jaden

is nowhere near as good as Josh Allen at playing quarterback. Like that would just be a ridiculous statement to make. So how could that be possible? Like I think there's something that the evidence and the numbers are missing if they are suggesting that Jaden Daniels has been as good and is as good as Josh Allen.

I mean, I think performance-wise through the first nine weeks of the season is my argument that I think he's played as well as anyone could play in that offense. I agree with you. That's fair. If we're zooming out, if you're telling me, do I think that's going to be the case the rest of the season, the next five years, whatever? Of course not.

Josh Allen has a much bigger, a much greater track record. He's done it in different situations. But if I'm looking at this sample so far, I don't know. Maybe there is something there, but I didn't find it in any of my research. I don't know. This is helping him here or he doesn't have to do X, Y, and Z, that type of thing. Marcus Mariotta played pretty well, is all I'll say. I know it was against the Pantage.

He played the Pantish. I wish. Please, bring me Marcus Marioo for a three-game sample. I'm begging. I don't want Jane Dehance to get injured. Jamie, maybe just chill, Jayden. Take a couple weeks off. Just for podcasts, for team content for me, take a couple of weeks off so that I can throw

that nonsense out. I would say this, though. I'll say first is he's not as obviously Marcus Marriota is nowhere near as talented as Jayden Daniels. Jane Daniels is a great quarterback compared to Marcus Marietta. But it does show that the offense is providing some easy buttons to some quarterbacks who have looked horrendous. in other stops in the last couple of years.

I mean, it's only a one-off example, but... One game sample. One game sample. That's all I'll say. All right, that is my selection. It's good. Listen, you've got to get into some arguments. How boring would that have been if we all would have had the same two guys.

All right, that is the MVP debate. Next up, we got coach of the year. This one is very interesting. I wrote down when I was writing my column 10 different names. And I'm like, I don't know what direction to go in here. I feel like a third of the league is doing a pretty good job. I'm coaching so far this season. All right, Nora started the last one.

Ruiz, you start us off on this one. Who do you have for your coach of the year? I'm going with Mike Tomlin, and I am projecting this out a little bit because I expect the Steelers to look even more impressive than they have over the first half of the season. But when you look into their numbers, this isn't like smoking mirrors like it's been in the past.

Their point differential checks out. I know the offense has been inconsistent, but even when Justin Fields was out there, it was productive. And we've seen it be productive the last couple of years. and I think just the way he's handled the quarterback situation, which would be very dicey in other organizations. Like look at what's happening in Indy right now. I don't think Mike Tomlin would have botched the situation as badly as Shane Steichen did.

And then the offensive coordinator higher, how he handled the quarterback situation, how the defense continues to just play well at a high level, no matter who's out there year in, year out. And the fact that they don't give away games, they win games, they don't lose games. I think it's time that we give him credit for it. And if he finishes this year like 11 and 6 or 12 and 5, it's not like the old Tomlin jokes where he's like, oh, he's going 9 and 7 or whatever. He might win this division. He's competing with the Ravens.

They're neck and neck in the division with maybe the best team in the NFL right now. So there's something to be said about that. And the other picks, like Dan Campbell, I think would be my second pick. He's second on my ballot. The only thing I would say about him is, that's more of like a longevity award, or not longevity, but like the last couple of years,

I think has been his coaching job. I don't think this year stands out from the rest. And maybe that's the wrong way to look at it. All right. I also have Mike Tomlin as my top choice. Again, I don't have much to add. You laid it out, Ruiz.

I mean, this isn't your old school Steelers are winning by one point every week with some nonsense. There is some of that in there for sure, but higher point differential than the Ravens. So far with Justin Fields and Russell Wilson, again, I will tell Steelers fans over and over again. Okay, you can point to me that he hasn't won a playoff game since whatever it is,

2016. Other coaches with these quarterbacks would not be sniffing the playoffs or a winning record. So you got to take that into account every time. Nora or Deonti, did either of you have Mike Tomlin or are we going in a different direction? Different direction for me, although Tomlin up there, certainly. This was probably the closest one to me. I kind of have it written out as like one in one A. Mike Tomlin's my one, but like we'll get to the runner up for me,

but it could have gone in either direction between my two candidates. And I'm with Stephen. Like to me, you have to separate all the playoff success or lack thereof when we're talking about this award. Like there's a time, there's a time and place to talk about the playoff games that he has and hasn't won and whether or not he should have been expected to win playoff games, given what the roster and the state of the offense was towards the end of Ben

Rottesburg's career. and obviously through Kenny Pickett's tenure as a starter. But yeah, I think that this is probably the first year to me where you can look and say like, all right, now that he's flushed some of the bad offense that existed before out of this thing, they've looked good passing the ball or decent passing the ball, much more functional than what I think anybody's preseason expectations would have been.

And this defense continues to perform at a ridiculous level, in spite of the fact that everybody knows what they're going to play because it's been the base, it's been the same defensive infrastructure for, over a decade now, and they continue to execute at a higher level than everybody else in the league. And if they continue to sniff around winning the AFC North, given their quarterback situation, it would be hard for me, even having this race as close as it is, not to give it to Tomlin under those circumstances. I feel like that is, like, the most underrated sign of good coaching.

Like, I know, like, people like me who cover the sport and get all excited about, like, schematic evolution and, like, people doing creative things. Like, the fact that they could just line up and play the same defense and they have been for the last couple of years. and they play it so, well, that's proof that they have their fundamentals down. They know how to teach this and they know how to coach it where the guys aren't messing up and they're able to get away with playing a more, I don't know, I don't want to say simple because I don't think it's simple what they do, but a more uniform style of play. That's a testament to his coaching in that program that they built on the defensive side.

And now we're seeing it kind of on the offensive side, at least the early stages of it with Arthur Smith. Yeah, it's the opposite of what we said on the Sunday night show with Mike McCarthy. It's like, yeah, part of coaching. like can you get the players to execute what you're asking them to do? And they just do that every single week. That's not making the right fourth down decision. That's not, oh, my God, this schematic wrinkle that everyone's going.

But that is like a bigger chunk of it than any of those things. And they do that very, very well. All right, Nora, who do you got for your winner for Coach of the Year at the Midway Point? So this was the hardest one for me to pick just because I think you could make a case. Like you said, there's, you know, close to 10 coaches. so I think it all be really deserving. I ultimately went with Kevin O'Connell. Interested to see how this holds up over the course of the entire season,

but I just think what's happened with this Vikings team, if we go back to the preseason or last off season and just everything that was going on there, and then you throw in the injury to the quarterback, I think we would have expected close to nothing from them. And the fact that with Sam Darnold, he has this as a, you know, top half offense resurrecting the career of a quarterback who had been pretty much, you know, left for dead,

considered a bust. And then also defensively, you know, I think Brian Flores deserves the bulk of the credit for what's happening there. But part of being a head coach is filling out your staff. And I think there are very few head coaches in the NFL that would have even hired Flores to begin with, at least not that quickly and not, you know, giving him the reins to make that unit. They all had a chance. He was a linebacker's coach.

Literally every other team in the NFL had an opportunity to hire him as a defensive coordinator and no one did it. No one did it other than Kevin O'Connell. So, you know, I think the single most impressive feat of coaching I've watched this year was what Matt Lafleur did with Malik Willis. I think the Dan Campbell argument is really strong. I do think it is a little bit of a cumulative few years type argument. argument. Obviously, you guys made the case for Tomlin, who I think is super deserving. Harbaugh?

I'm... Jim Harbaugh, I would throw into the mix there. Damn Quinn, I think you can throw into the mix. This was, to me, in a year where I feel like, you know, we watch these games every Sunday. And more than the other way around, I'm finding myself going, geez, it feels like we're watching a lot of sloppy football and not great execution. it was sort of interesting to flip that on its head and be like, okay, the coaches who are doing it, like there are some pretty good resumes for, you know, this group of eight to ten here. So I went with O'Connell.

I sort of tabbed Harbaugh as my runner up just because I thought that it was sort of cheeky and different. But I really think that a lot of these guys are deserving candidates. I know that's a boring take, but it's just, I just want to call out some good coaching. I feel like O'Connell kind of gets hurt by the fact that Darnel was the third overall pick. And we like, it's so easy to forget that he's just been a bad quarterback throughout his career. And like on the Sunday night.

Really, I don't find that easy to forget. Yeah. I feel like some people have. Like, you listen to like the broadcast. In the press box at MetLife for the seeing ghosts game. He was pretty bad in that came out. But like, you hear the commentators talk about him whenever the Vikings are on national TV. And they're like, oh, yeah, he just, you know, you know.

You could see the talent coming out. He just needed to be in the right place. It's like, no, he was a bad quarterback, and he would have been bad anywhere. And Kevin O'Connell was working around his issues. Like, even on Sunday night, when he's giving the ball away and kept the Colts in that game, the Vikings, there's been a couple of times where that's been the case. You could argue he almost gave away the 49ers game. You can argue he almost gave away the Jets game in London.

But O'Connell and his coaching staff have been able to work around those issues. And I think that's the testament to good coaching more so than the fact that he doesn't have, like Sam Darnel doesn't look like the Jets. Sam Donald right now. Most three, I think he's like the only seven-year vet who still gets talked about. Yeah. I was going to say, I think he's the only seven-year vet that still gets talked about like he's on like the second year of his rookie deal when he's on TV.

People still talk about him like he's fresh out of USC and that we didn't have the entire Jets tenure to go off of in terms of collecting data on whether or not he's any good. And I think Nora laid it out, like the fact that they're even league average right now as an offense with Sam Donald, given what we've seen of him as a pro, speaks volumes, what they've gotten out of Aaron Jones, especially like in the first month and a half of the year, before the injuries kind of seemed to derail a little bit of this running game, and still being able to find Justin Jefferson, as often as they did to start the year when Jordan Addison was out, and your second best receiver was Jalen Naylor, right? So he's just done so much scheme-wise. And I think that the spirit of this award is which coach has gotten the most out of their team relative to preseason expectations?

Kevin O'Connell's high, high, high on that list for me. Yeah, yeah, I've got him as my runner up. I think just to hammer home the darnal point, from the moment he entered the league until like the start of this season, if you look at the sample of guys who had thrown as many passes as he has, he was either the worst or like the second worst quarterback in the NFL. So it might, you know, we look at him now and are he's making mistakes. And trust me, I've been, you know, we've been talking a lot about that on this.

To get him to like the 18th best quarterback, is a massive accomplishment, which I think that's what you're talking about, Ruiz, because on the broadcast, they're like, oh, you know, this guy had the talent, Shannon wanted him last week, and he had those four games in Carolina. He has never been able to put together a half a season

where they're ninth in passing DVOA. That's crazy. With Sam Darnold, that's like the biggest accomplishment of any coach in the NFL this season. So I had O'Connell as my runner-up. The other thing I love is you never watch a game and go, why isn't Justin Jefferson more involved? Oh, the defense is taking two.

Justin Jefferson away. Nope. They've got answers for that every single week. Every defense comes into a game against them. Don't let Justin Jefferson kill us. And you look up in the third quarter and he's got 120 yards. So that's obviously a lot has to do with Justin Jefferson, but also like I like that the coaching is like, no, we're not going to allow that to happen. It's like every time you see another player makes a big catch on a key down. If they like zoom out and show you the all 22 replay, you could see like the defense selling out to stop Jefferson elsewhere. And the play was designed perfectly to exploit that. Like, yeah, he's, he's just been a, he's done a tremendous job designing that offense

around one star wide receiver and a good offensive line. No doubt. All right. So I had O'Connell as my runner up, Ruiz. Did we get your runner up? Is it O'Connell? You got someone else? I'm going with Dan Campbell, but like, you can go with 10 candidates for that.

Yeah. Yeah. And Deonti, you're good too, right? You said, yeah. Kevin O'Connell is my runner up. A lot of guys who, all right, I'm just going to read my list for the what about, for the what about crowd. All right.

Dan Quinn, Nora mentioned, Dan Campbell, Ruiz mentioned, LaFleurie mentioned. We got O'Connell and Tomlin. How about a Sean McDermott? I don't know. I threw him out there. It was supposed to be a reset year. That is a top 10 defense, and there's not a lot of talent with that group. Nora mentioned Harbaugh.

How about Sean McVeigh? They've had a bunch of injuries, and they are right in the mix, and they can still design an offense with basically given Matthew Stafford and any other 10 people. If you have those two, you can have a solid offense. I gave him some. Jonathan Gannon? Jonathan Gannon, anybody? I don't have Johnny Gans.

The cringe is way to the other side. Okay, you're giving Johnny Gans a shout out there like that. I did give Rahe Morris a shout out. That thing could have gone sideways very quickly with the Pennix traffic, and they're in first place and the offense works, and then probably my most controversial. Sean Payton, I mean, listen, I know he's arrogant. I know he's slug.

Their over-under for wins was five and a half, and they've got five wins so far. Does anyone want to yell at me? That's a Vance Joseph Award. Come on now. All right. There you go. All right.

So those are the coaches we think are doing a good job so far this season. We take a break. We get to offensive player of the year, defensive player of the year, the rookies, and an assistant. All right. We are back on the ringer NFL show. Offensive player of the year, Deonté, you lead us off. Who do you got? I think that this one might actually be more unanimous than MVP.

To me, it's Derek Henry. Like it's ridiculous the kind of production that he's getting out of this year. Playing with a good quarterback for the first time in his career, playing in an offense that's trying to distribute touches as much as they are, and a quarterback that is also a running threat in his own right, for him to already be over the thousand yard mark, possibly going to put up the most productive season in his career. And I think really stamping his Hall of Fame case this late into his playing days.

Outside of Sequin Barkley, and I know we'll get to run around at a different point. I'm Staconne Barclay, maybe Justin Jefferson. I just don't know who else could possibly steal votes from him for offensive player of the year to this point in the season. He's not even in the top two of my ballot. Wow, give it to us. I like it.

Lamar Jackson is my offensive player of the year. I'm tired of separating these two awards. He plays offense and he's the player of the year. That's what the award is for. And he also does it in two different ways because you could argue he can also be a running back and double as a running back, and he's also the best quarterback in the league. I think this is the perfect way to celebrate him mastering

not only the throwing aspects of the position, but also the run game aspects of playing the quarterback position. And my second pick is Saquan Barkley, and only because Derek Henry has never hurtled a guy backwards. And he's also not the best player on his own offense. I'm sorry, I'm not giving an offensive player of the year to a guy that's the second best player on his offense. So I don't want to associate myself with the first part of Stephen's take.

But I want to make the Saquan argument on that basis. He has fairly comparable stats to Henry. Look, if Derek Henry has 2,000 yards, he's going to win this award. But if Saquan finishes with comparable stats to Henry on an offense, that instead of having one of the league's best passing offenses and one of the most dynamic quarterbacks in the game, is the driver of that offense. I do think that is in some ways more impressive. And also he hurtled a guy backwards.

Yeah, he does have the signature play. I came, I was flip-flopping on those two when I was writing my column. Henry and Sequin Barclay was my runner-up. It's kind of convenient because they have the exact same number of touches so far this season. So it's very easy to do the comparison. Barkley's averaging more yards from scrimmage per game. Henry's been a little bit more efficient. Barkley has more 10-plus yard runs.

Henry has more 20 plus yard runs. Henry has a better quarterback. Barkley has a better offensive line. It is really, it's like impossible. Honestly, you are splitting hairs. You could easily go with either one of those two. But those are my two. I've got Henry one.

I've got Barclay two. I'm a grown up. I'm a rule follower. That's where I'm not saying this for the sake of my argument. I think AJ Brown's the best player on that team. He's just been less available for Philadelphia. But I'm not mad at the argument that like, Sequin Barclay is the most integral piece right now.

I think everybody who watches the Eagles would say that he's the most integral piece and the reason why they've been winning games over the last month. Yeah, that's fair. I'm a rule follower. So I thought the rule for this is pretty easy. Pick the best non-quarterback. Deonti, how do we feel about rule? Is this a hipster take?

Is it a rule? There's been double winners. It's not an actual rule. It's like an unwritten rule. Yeah, unwritten rule. It's unwritten for a reason because it's a bad rule. Yeah. I'm not in favor of...

You need to campaign to fix MVP voting. Don't punish offensive player of the year candidates because we've screwed up MVP and just made it the best quarterback award. But Lamar Jackson transcends the quarterback position in a way that no other player in the league right now transcends it. I think he deserves to get a double award for this season that he's having. I've never seen anything like it. It's quite possibly the best season a football player has ever had.

He's outpacing the stats he had when he won the Heisman at Louisville. He is treating NFL defenses the same way he treated Duke defenses and Syracuse defenses. This is insane what we're watching. Give him all the awards. Make him coach of the year. I mean, it is funny that like the NFL awards, they really are structured to kind of like sprinkle a little glory over here and a little bit over here and a little bit over here. Like you have all these years at the Grammys where it's just like, okay, we're giving every award to Billy Elish this year. Yeah, yeah.

Right. That's what I was thinking. It's like, could you do a sweep like you do at the Grammys? Like, can you win an EGOT in NFL awards? No, I don't, yeah, I would be more okay with it if you get, if the MVP was a different quarterback and you're like this up, this number two quarterback has to get rewarded, then I'm good with it. You make a compelling point.

You are, you are right that we have not like the numbers he's on pace for. We have literally never seen a quarterback do before. And the fact that it's a dual threat type deal. It's like offensive player. He's doing that all the things you need to do on offense. He's doing. So I understand that. And then, of course, let's make sure.

Justin Jefferson gets his flowers because, I mean, the guy is just incredible and easily has a case. Has he hurtle the guy backwards, though? Yeah, I know. So that I'm not in. Like, what could Derek Henry possibly do to match that? You'd have to, like, stiff arm two guys at once. And they'd have to, like, go, like, into the first row of the stands.

Yeah. We could bring Josh Norman out of retirement to be that guy. All right. There you go. I love it. Actually, didn't Earl Thomas catch the worst Derek Henry, Stephon, as a Raven? Well, we can't.

I don't think we could bring him out of retirement to be that guy. It seems like he's disappeared. Yeah, he might be a little harder to find based on recent events. All right, let's move on. Before we go any further, let's go to the defensive player of the year. I thought this was maybe the most difficult. I didn't know who to pick for this one. Nora, let's go back to you to lead us off.

Who did you land on for defensive player of the year? Well, so I want to point out that, as referenced, we are recording this podcast on Tuesday, November 5th. And obviously, this is not something that I expect to hold throughout the entire season. But I feel that it should be acknowledged that even though he's not going to play again this year, like, Aidan Hutchinson was the best defensive player through the first half of the year. And so if this is the mid-season awards pod, I feel that he should be acknowledged. as deserving. I think he's still like third or fourth in pressures because when he got hurt,

he had seven and a half sacks in five games, but he had 45 pressures. And it took Nick Bosa, who's the first player to leapfrog him, took Nick Bosa three weeks to get past him. He's still leading a very busy time for Nick Bosa, okay? It's been a very stressful time for Nick Bosa. Very important time. He still leads the league in pressure per snap. that obviously does not depend on counting.

And he could very well end up finishing the season ahead there if you don't control for the number of snaps, obviously. And I just think, like, listen to our conversations about the Lions, right? Like, listen to our conversation about the trade. We think of that defense meaningfully differently overall, and then particularly in high leverage, third down situations, against the better offenses that they're going to have to play in the playoffs. He's a difference maker for them.

He was a difference maker for them. They're in a different situation without him. He's obviously not going to win this award because he will finish the season having only played five games. But he was the most impactful defensive player for the first half of the season. And therefore, I'm acknowledging him as such on this pod. All right. Norris got Aidan Hutchinson. Ruiz, who do you got?

I actually like, like, I'm compelled by that argument. I actually got to even think about that. I didn't even think of that. Oh, yeah, no, she's making a good point. I forgot it just for the first half. Aiden Hutchinson. But yeah. I must have to try.

This is how I sneakily don't reveal my ballot. Oh, that's a good point. But like I did like a table comparing Zay Smith's pressure numbers and sack numbers to Aidan Hutchinson, even though he's played double the games nearly. He's played nine games to five games compared to Hutchinson. And Hutchinson's still like outpacing him in all the counting stats there are. And it's not even really close. And if you look at the pressure rates and you look at the average time to sack and all that stuff and you look

look through the. splits on like early downs and actual pass rush situations. Hutchinson is the best one in the league so far through the first half. But I didn't think about that. I was short-sighted. And I just went with Fred Warner. When I watch him play, I don't know the numbers behind this. And it's kind of hard to get numbers on a linebacker and really capture linebacker play

with that. But whenever you watch him play, he's the best player on the field. Like he almost single-handedly won them that game against the Vikings. And he's made plays like that in other games. Like, I remember the force fumble against the Jets in week one, and there are other plays and other examples and plays against the Cowboys. He's the focal point of that defense, and he's the reason why that defense hasn't fallen off more than it has as they've lost talent on the defensive line. Yeah, to me, I think that, like, this spiritually for me, the defensive player of the year award is just the MVP of that side of the ball. And when I just think about, like, down-to-down impact right now is Fred Warner.

So that's my pick as well. And like I could put together a reel on a week by week basis of how his ability to identify what an offense is doing adds value for all of his teammates, whether it's fit in the run because he sees what motion is coming or what formation they're in or adding value as a blitzer, even if he's not getting a pressure, setting up picks and stunts for a Nick Boser for somebody else to get a one-on-one. And then there's obviously all the coverage stuff, which is a little bit more tangible because you get to see his ball production a little bit more in that way. and there are still so many underlying influences that he has on the way a play goes because he can deny the middle of the field in a way that some of the best safeties in the league don't right now. So that's my pick. That's my pick to win.

I think we'll get to some of my hipster picks when we started talking about runner-ups. But what Nora said, I think, really did move me as well because I really was kind of tortured by like picking a guy that I know that's not going to, that's not finishing a year and is not going to have the requisite sample size by seasons in to be. consideration, but I don't know even for all the production that he had if we were really properly appreciating the season that Aiden Hutchinson was having. I mean, this was going to be one of the best past rush production years that we had seen maybe ever based on what he was on pace to do.

So I do want to make sure that I give a little bit of left aisle he was playing up until the leg injury. Yeah, no, no doubt about it. I had Warner as well, just modern NFL offenses. They're just picking on the linebackers constantly. they're working in the middle of the field. There's play action, there's RPO, there's motion, there's all kinds of things that are hard to deal with.

And I just felt like the difference between Warner and every other linebacker in the NFL right now. Like that's a bigger gap than any other position, I think, in the NFL. So I went with him as well as my choice. To me, it feels like what it felt like talking about Earl Thomas in his prime. It's been an Earl Thomas heavy episode. But like how he kind of stood out from the rest of the safeties and everybody wanted a player like him at that position because it allows you to play a certain style of defense. But there's only one Fred Warner and he's the only one that's able to play like this.

Like he's he can guard two routes on one play. And I don't think I've ever seen a linebacker be able to do that. Yeah, he's been amazing. All right, Deonti, you piqued my interest by saying, let me, you're going to get to the hipster pick. So you give us who are, who is your runner up? Who are the other guys that you were considering? I don't know if people have really paid enough attention to the fact that the guy who's second in the NFL in sacks is

340 pounds and plays nose. But Dexter Lawrence has seven and a half sex and he has 340 pounds. And I think he has seven TFLs as well this year. I don't like, because the Giants aren't winning, obviously he's not going to be in contention for the award. But you have, that is a guy that like if you love football, you have to get NFL pro so you can watch from the end zone angle to see this mass of human being take on double and triple teams and not get moved an inch,

if not resetting the line of scrimmage two to three yards behind where the ball is snapped. I mean, he is a marble physically in the league, in a league full of guys who are huge and athletic. And I think that when you talk about just like individual influences on a defense, that is not a good defense up the spine. And he does so much to cover up their problems by just eating up space and being a playmaker in his own right.

So that's my runner up. And the other guy I had in consideration was Will Anderson, who's another guy I think that, People have to watch specifically as a run defender to get a proper appreciation for how much havoc he causes for offenses on a week by week basis. I feel like at the end of the season, I need like an all-Deante defensive team because I'm like, oh, Will Anderson. I know that's a Deonté guy. You got Dexter Lawrence. He got Fred Warner on there.

I know there are some other guys. Just wait so we get to defensive rookie of the year. There you go. He'll have some more. There, Ruiz. Who did you have as your runner up? I have Kyle Hamilton, but I could go and. several different directions. I thought about Patrick Sartan. I thought about T.J. Watt is always an

option. But Kyle Hamilton, just the way he plays the position. And the way he just blows up bubble screens is just so fun to watch and it's so consistent. I know he had the drop, the unfortunate interception drop against Cleveland, which ultimately led to their loss. But he just makes so many plays that I can easily forget about that one low light from the season. And he has so many highlights. And he can do so many different things and do them all at a high level. I think he's the best. If I'm building a defense, I'd probably take him over Fred Warner right now just because of what he can do in coverage and he can play man coverage against receivers. I don't know if he's had as good as season as Warner,

but I think he's as good of a player as him. So I'm going to pick him with my second. Yeah, deserves a shout out. And Nora, who do you have as your runner-up to Aidan Hutchinson? Yeah, I scribbled down a bunch of names, including Dexter Lawrence, so I'm glad that Deonté brought that up. But I think T.J. Watt definitely deserves a mention. You know, Stephen, I think, was talking about just how that defense functions a little bit earlier related to Tomlin.

And Watts's a good example of that because he's just doing the same thing all the time. He's just lining up in one spot on the left side. Everyone knows where he's going to be. And then he just still is impacting plays on a very regular basis. It's got six and a half sacks, four force fumbles, also drawing. I think the most double teams in the league, he's chipped all the time. He is just like the focal point of game plans against that defense. And it still doesn't matter.

He is just executing on a regular basis. So I think he's turning into to one of the sort of like easy to forget because it's kind of like clockwork players, but he's really impactful for that defense. So I had him as my runner up. And the other guy who fits like everything you just said, Miles Garrett. I'm not going to get bored with Miles Garrett. I mean, you get ready to face that defense. That's the guy you have to stop.

And he leads the most quick pressures in the NFL, according to NFL pro is top three in pressures. The sacks aren't there. But, man, he gets double-teamed at a high rate as well. And then I don't, I thought, Deonti, I thought you're hipster choice because I know you talked about this guy before. I thought he might give Trey Hendrickson some love because his production is crazy for the fact. Leading a league in sacks right now. Yeah. And they don't have it. It's like that defensive line, I mean, that's a one-man operation that that pass fresh.

They don't really have anybody else there. And he leads to the NFL in Sacks right now. He's top three in pressures. He's second in quick pressure. So he's another guy who probably deserves a shout out here. All right. Now we move on to the rookies. I'm going to lead this one off. Listen, I already went on a whole rant about him. Offensive rookie of the air. I've got Jaden Daniels just to put it in kind of historical perspective. since two thousand, sixty four rookie quarterbacks through the first nine weeks of the season, the only two who have been better EPA per pass play were 2016 DAC and 2004 Ben Rafflesberger. And it is very, very tight there. It's like a hundredth of a decimal point there. So I already went on my long, long Jaden Daniels rant already. Does anybody have anyone other than Jaden Daniels?

Nope. No. No. No. No. Yeah, we went, all right. It's hoping for a little social clip that would get the Washington fans a little bit upset, but no one's got that.

All right, Ruiz, who do you have as your runner-up? Because runner-up was actually pretty difficult, I thought. I went with Brock Bowers just because I think he's the best player at his position compared to the other guys. Like, I think, and I don't want to, like, downplay what Caleb Williams has done. I think when you watched that film, you watched the film last week against Arizona. He's as impressive of a rookie quarterback as I've ever seen. I just don't think he has the production to win this award or to just to just a,

to justify. As you've ever seen, Caleb Williams' his season so far? I just mean like his skill set and how he operates in the pocket. The highs. I don't think, yeah, and not necessarily even the highs, the lows.

I think like the way he operates that off. I've never seen a quarterback take command of an offense before the snap like I've seen him do. I've never seen a quarterback work through their progress. He works to his progressions. I don't know why everyone claims that he's just like a backyard player who wants to get outside the pocket. It does happen,

but usually it happens for a reason. Nobody's opened downfield and he's given them a chance. But no, Brock Bauer is just like the way he plays football. It's translated. What he did at Georgia has translated. I think that was the concern that everybody had, that he wouldn't be this playmaker who's capable of taking over games. But we've seen him take over.

We saw him take over the Ravens game. He could take over games in this league. And I think when you get to year two and year three, he's going to be able to do it even more. I think he's going to be more confident. But this year, he already looks like one of the best tight ends in the NFL. He's chipped in the league in yards after the catch. already. Top 10 in the league in yards after the catch is a rookie titan and does not have a viable

receiver playing beside him to attract any other attention. What he's doing right now, like Stephen said, it's exactly what it look like against SEC opponents. You know, like the game for him that I think really stamped him as a prospect was him basically single-handedly beating Florida last year before entering the draft. And you just see so often he gets on these hot streaks It's like you give him the ball within five yards at the line of scrimmage or give it to him a couple yards short of the sticks and he turns up the field. And next thing you know, he's got 8, 10, 12 extra yards after the catch because of just how athletic and dynamic he is. He is going to be a matchup problem in this league for a long, long time. And I think he's a pretty clear runner-up option.

I also wanted to give a nod to Brian Thomas Jr., who's been one of the best receivers in the NFL, one of the most explosive receivers in the NFL right now, averaging 17 yards per catch and almost 600 receiving yards right now, as again, another wide receiver who does not have a lot of other high profile talent around him with all the receiver injuries that Jacksonville's been dealing with this year. No doubt. Nora, did we miss anybody or one of those, your runner-up or did you have someone else? I had Bowers as well. I mean, I think you can toss Malik neighbors into the conversation.

Other rookie receiver has been really impressive. But Bowers, to me, is just a little bit more superlative at the position. I think Stephen did a good job outlining that. So I went with him as my runner-up. I feel like Neighbors is like the most exciting player at his position. Like he does, he's obviously playing in an offense that is not conducive to stacking passing numbers. And he's playing with a quarterback that's not going to necessarily get the most out of him.

But when you turn on the film and like the juice he has, it's undeniable. Yeah. I hopefully we're not like. I think if he played it in an offense where the coach's sort of core aim on a week-to-week basis were to, we're not to prevent the quarterback from throwing passes. We might be having a slightly different conversation, but I do think that that is going to get in the way of his potential for an accolade like this. Yeah, I think if he can find a quarterback who throws for more than goes better than four for six for zero yards and a half,

he's going to get more, more upper. I know they were running the ball. Calm down, Giants fans. I know they were moving the ball. But still, yes, I just hope we're not talking about this in three years. like, oh, man, if we could just get Malik neighbors a quarterback, because I agree with you. He is exciting and you can just see it.

Get a quarterback of passing offense that works, and he can be legitimately among the best wide receivers in the NFL. All right. Defensive rookie of the year, Nora, lead us off. Who do you got? Jared Verst. Come on down. I'm so curious because I think Deonté is kind of telegraphed

that he has maybe a little bit of a hipster, pick here. This is one that to me felt relatively simple. He's got 32 pressures. He's been really good both against the run and as a as a pass rusher for the ram so far. He's ninth in total pressures. And actually only Aiden Hutchinson, who's still holding on because it's a per

snap stat has a better per snap pressure rate still so far. this season. And I just think the fact that the Rams were going into the season, you know, Aaron Donald retired, it just felt like that absence was going to be something that we were going to see in a way that was so much more dramatic than I think it has looked. And I think Verse has a ton to do with it. So to me, this was one that was fairly simple. Yeah, he's one of those guys where you don't have to actually look at the numbers to realize

he's impacting the game too. Like if he watched any Rams game you watch, he pops up and he flashes. And then he had, yeah, and then he has the numbers. He's only good Rams defensive player right now. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I feel like you almost have to give it to him. He is the betting favorite and the overwhelming betting favorite. The player that I have second on my ballot is Quinn, Quinn and Mitchell,

just because I like what that Eagle secondary is done. And I think he's been a good player. And I think, like, a rookie cornerback should be graded on a curve. And I don't think his play necessarily, like, I don't think he needs. needs to be graded on a curve to come out looking good. But considering that, I think you can even, you know, bump him up a few spots in his performance. Yeah, I had verse as well as the,

it's just not supposed to happen that a pass rusher comes into the league and gives you like top 10 production right away. And he's been able to do that for that Rams team. And I got Mitchell as my backup too, as my runner up as well. I mean, Vic Fangio, they're playing man coverage at like a top five, top seven rate. So this isn't like, what do you,

talking about they're playing, you know, split safety and he's getting help over the top. No, he has had some unbelievable reps against very good wide receivers. And his, he's so close to being, like, he could be this pick if he would have caught a couple, a few interceptions. Yeah. He gets his hands on the football every week. He hasn't been able to hang on to him. So like the box score counting with him hasn't been there.

But I would say he's already like maybe a top 15 cornerback in the NFL. He is how. How often does it happen where like teams will draft. defensive player to attack one certain weakness. Like the Eagles took him and they're like, we're going to play more man coverage. The Rams took verse and Fisk to short that defensive line. And like all of those draft picks have worked out, including these two that we have at the top of our ballot.

It's usually foolish. I'm usually the, you know, the guy yelling on all the offseason pods. Just because they drafted this guy doesn't mean they fixed their problem because that's usually what happens. The guy, it's hard to be a rookie in the NFL. Sometimes the guy doesn't play. Sometimes he plays but isn't good. Sometimes he plays on his average.

So you're not really upgrading. Yeah, these two are kind of the exceptions there. All right, Deante, did we name your hipster? Are they just, are you digging deep? I mean, I thought we are building up to the most climactic moment of the podcast. Who do you got? I mean, this is where, like, I'm putting in my vote with the explicit understanding that I'm being the asshole here because I'm taking a guy who does not have very much tangible production.

But my runner up is Tevandre Sweat. Like, and this is one of those, like, got to watch the film, see when he's, on the field and the influence that he has on that defense. When Tavondre Sweat is playing for the Titans, they're fourth in the league and EPA allowed per rush. Their first and run stuff rate, and they are just in general. And then they're fourth in defensive success rate against the run. And a lot of that is because he does the dirty work

that allows Jeffrey Simmons to be a game wrecker when he's playing at his best. He makes a game so much cleaner for their linebackers. And now, you know, that's even more important after they traded away. Ernest Jones earlier in the season. I love just watching this guy take on double teams and reset the line of scrimmage. I think like I said, whether he's playing

nose or he's playing three technique. I think that he does a lot of the dirty work that makes that defense go. You know, that Baltimore defense does rely on guys up the spine being space eaters and playmakers. And I think that he kind of is emblematic of what you want that defense to look like at its best in terms of one player

making an influence on the rest of the front seven. So I would say that he's my runner-up, knowing the fact that he's only got two TFLs and has not registered a quarterback hit and I think has less than 10 pressures all year. So I'm not saying that I expect him to get much love from this perspective. But if you're a ball watcher and a ball-knower, you can point out to Vandre sweat and see what he's doing to add value to his defense. Deontze, how's the interior of your defensive line doing right now? Because you seem to be really, it's like you're longing for Dexter Lawrence or sweat in the middle of your. Maybe I'm saying somebody signaling some of my own. And stresses with my picks here.

He sees him like eat a double team. He's like, oh, man, that's, that's, you know? I must be nice. It must be nice. Oh, man. That was, if I had a PBR right now, I would just shotgun it on the YouTube. I mean, the hipsters, Tavondre sweat. I love it.

Digging deep. You built it up and you came through in a big spot. Listen, I'll just be honest. I have not watched the Snap of Titans defensive film this year. I don't think about it will blame you. Yeah, I'm glad. Now I know what Tavondre Sweat. but is doing because I had no idea.

All right, the last one. The assistant coaches. Also a fun one. Honestly, we could have done a whole show on the assistant coaches. It is an award now, now, as Ruiz has pointed out. Ruiz, you start us off because this was your idea to add this. And I think it was a good one. Who is your assistant coach through the first half of the season?

I mean, I got to go with my man. I got to go with Cliff Kingsbury, the one that's fueling the Jaden Daniels hype train. Unbelievable. Imagine if you told your August self-thus that you're going to be giving Cliff Kingsbury an award at the midway point of the season because you think he's the best assistant coach in the NFL. I don't know how it would feel.

I'm open-minded. I can change my mind. All of those numbers you just read out about Jane and Daniels apply to him. And guess what? The run game is pretty damn good too. And this team isn't exposing its quarterback to obvious passing situations as much as the other offensive coordinators for rookie quarterbacks. He's using no huddle to great effect.

He's using personnel. He's changing up his personnel. He's answered all of his critics about his past game and how that works on late downs. I think he's like checking off a lot of the boxes and a lot of the questions that people had about him when he was the head coach of Arizona. I mean, maybe he is just destined to be an offensive coordinator. We've seen plenty of guys like that. And most of his issues in Arizona didn't have to do with play calling or necessarily

offensive design. It was how he managed games and how he approached fourth down and stuff like that. So, no, I think Cliff deserves his flowers. All right. Is it more likely, this is for the group, that Cliff Kingsbury went to Thailand and figured out how to improve his deficiencies and became a better coach, or is it more likely that the quarterback is making the coordinator maybe look a little bit better than he is. Anybody. I mean, you never know. You never know.

I know what my answer to that is. On the white board, you know, scheming it up. He got 40 points out of Marcus Marriota. That's on its own. That's enough to win the other. I need to find some way to erase it. We need to have some moratorium. I don't want to hear about that game.

Again, I need to find some way to extract that from your brain where you have to have like a fine jar or something to a charity where anytime that game gets that game is going to haunt me. I'll be talking about that game in two years. Next, next election, I'll still be talking about it. All right. Cliff Kingsbury was not on my ballot, but I appreciate it. It's a good to be.

You brought it all full circle. I'm team content. That was good for team content. We started out with the Jaden Daniels talk, and now we end it with Cliff Kingsbury. All right, Nora, who do you have? Who's your assistant coach? Oh, my God.

I feel like such a normie. Deontes doing his PBR thing, Stephen saying Cliff Kingsbury. And I just, I've been Johnson. because they score at 32 points a game. Offensive line merchant. I'm waiting for the day when Stephen calls someone like a wins merchant, like points scored merchant. Oh, that's coming.

Super Bowl wins merchant. Bill Belichick, the ultimate wins merchant. Wins are for losers. The lion's offense is really good. It seems to get better every year. that this guy is involved in coaching it. It has, and you know, I think you could make an argument over whether I'm taking credit that's due to Jared Goff away from Jared Goff.

But like, he has leveled up some of the areas in which he hasn't been the greatest quarterback this season. He's playing better football than I think we've seen him. And for some reason, I credit Ben Johnson with that. And maybe I should credit Jared Goff with that. But I just, you know, they've been a one of the first. of the most impressive offenses, and I think he has a lot to do with that. The other name that was sort of floating around in the back of my head is, I think Vic Fangio

kind of coaches the Eagles. And I don't know what direction that cuts in if we're talking about being assistant coach of the year, because I don't know, maybe our Eagles cohort can chime in on that. But it does seem like that unit is sort of figuring itself out, maybe starting to come together and figure out what it wants to be. And then also just like the more that I hear about how things are sort of organized down there, the more I'm like, okay, so Vic Fangio coaches this team, right? I don't think Vic Fangio, I think Vic Fangio wants to coach the defense and doesn't want to

hear about anything else happening in that building. I mean, that's fair. He just says such as like Elder State's mid-Bowarding. Yeah, he's living the defensive coordinator's dream because he just gets to coach the defense and go home and every time something goes wrong, he can complain about it. it because all he's got to do is coach the defense and the defense is playing well right now. So he gets to walk in the meeting room like, I don't know what you're doing over there, Kellan.

What's up with those fourth, what's up with those fourth down decisions, Nick? I don't have those problems on my side of the ball. I guess, okay, that's what I'm responding to is that there, there's like a, there's a power share on the other side of the ball. And then Vic Fangio just gets to like own his own his unit. Yeah. They're all the way, their 10th and defensive DVOA. their defense is higher than their offense in DVOA.

Look at the talent on both sides of the ball for the Eagles. And they were, what, 32nd last year? It's also good. I would just kind of follow Matt Patricia and like take the job after him. I don't know if anyone's like in media, like what Patricia's hosting that underdog thing. Like if he gets out, go follow that up. I think that's a good sort of life lesson that Vic Fangio taught us. What do you think is the harder act to follow?

Matt Patricia, defensive coordinator or Matt Patricia podcast host? I don't know. I haven't followed the, yeah, his hosting abilities closely. He's got the juice, man. You got to listen. Yeah. I think that's probably hard. Yeah.

All right. Deonté, who do you got? So this one probably is a little bit off the beaten path to you. I swear this is not intentionally me being a taxter. I'm going with Liam Cohen, though, for his work with Tampa Bay's offense. On my top three, five list. Yeah. Like, and I do think there's a part of this where I'm kind of faced with,

face with thinking about whether or not Baker Mayfield is just like a better than decent quarterback because I do think that he's plays okay. He's had a couple of disaster games this year for sure in terms of taking sacks, putting the ball in harm's way. Obviously, the Denver game was probably the worst manifestation of that earlier this year. But when you look at what he's done to build this run game up,

which has just been like one of the leagues worst over the last three to four years, this is the first time. They've had a positive EPA per rush since 2021. I think their success rate is significantly higher than it's ever been in years prior, or not that it's ever been, but in years prior under different offensive coordinators who run similar schemes and similar systems, while Baker Mayfield and when Tom Brady was there. So I think that he's done a really good job at helping this offensive line that's been bringing in new pieces, get up to speed, find some continuity, and try to find some explosives in the running game.

And then obviously in the passing game, I think that he's done a great job of just taking stress off of Baker-Mayfield's shoulders. There was a lot to be said about like, hey, you throw a bubble screen to Chris Godwin and he turns it into a 60 yard gain. Like, that's not a quarterback thing. It's probably most of the credit is deserved for the wide receiver who gets yards after the catch. But I do think that it speaks to his understanding of the playmakers that he has, getting Chris Godwin back in the slot before he got hurt, really pushing the ball vertically with Mike Evans again before he got hurt. And I think using a play action game to keep things simple and very straightforward for his quarterback, in terms of having answer shield.

I know we talk about this on the podcast all the time is what coach and what scheme is creating answers for a quarterback that's limited. In a lot of ways, Liam Cohen is doing one of, I think, the five best jobs at that in the NFL. Yeah, I think Liam Cohen is doing the job Ruiz thinks Cliff Kingsbury is doing. How about that to bring it full circle? Mayfield doesn't it? I don't hit that take. He's throwing four-yard, five-yard, six-yard passes.

Nothing's into a tight window. He's got great wide receivers. and their sixth and offensive DVOA. Ruiz, you are a Liam Cohen guy. You were hopping a boy. I think we first had him on Fraudwatch, but then we came back pretty soon and we're like, no, I think he's doing a good job.

Oh, no, I never had him on Fraud Watch. He gave me an interview like a year ago, so I'm not going to put him on fraud watch. Transparency, I like it. Disregard for, yeah, that's one way, that's one thing to call it, being transparent. But no, no, I agree. He's made Baker Mayfield's job a lot easier

while also highlighting Baker and Bayfield strength and allowing him to like, you know, flourish as a quarterback. And they lost the two receivers and they've scored 26 points and 24 points. And one of those was against the Chief Defense, which might be one of the best in the league. So Cohen's third on my list, I advanced Joseph in second. But I think you go in like so many different directions. Like Jesse Minter deserves a shout after taking over what would have been the softest defense in the NFL.

They've overcome the fact that they wear powder blue jerseys as Norah, likes to point out, and they're playing a tougher brand of football this year. It's really interesting that I feel like the young, the, like, most of the young coordinators who have been impressive are on the defensive side. Whereas, like, Liam Cohen to me is the, is, is the exception where I feel like when we get into the hiring cycle, there's just like not going to be that many of these, you know, 37 to 47-year-old offensive coordinators that an owner can fall in love with and say, like, this is the guy who's going to, you know, be with me for 15 years and we're going to win Super Bowls.

And, like, those candidates just, I'm not sure are going to exist beyond a couple of names this year. And I'm a feeling that's probably good news for Liam Cohen. Good news for Belichick, good news for Brable. Yeah, I agree with you. I was thinking about that recently. Yeah, it feels like... Good news for like two groups of people. It's like the few who still fall into the traditional...

Right. Like the types of coaches who owners have wanted to hire recently. And then it's good news for like... Like, I have really been on this island of like, I'm just not sure that Belichick is going to get hired. And I still feel like the conditions that make me feel that way are in place. the one thing that's starting to make me waffle is I'm just starting to feel like, like simply who else? Like who, it's just the names are not plentiful.

Yeah. No, I think that'll be a big topic of conversation in the weeks that. Now, I feel like you guys were probably like, the Normie's going to pick the obvious choice so we don't need to say it. So I listen, I'll take the Normie flag. I mean, Brian Flores wins the award for me right now. I don't care that they had a couple weeks where it didn't look as good. They're first in defensive DVOA.

I mean, look at the talent on that side of the ball and how many wins would they had. How would we be talking about Sam Darnold and Kevin O'Connell if that defense wasn't just wrecking the likes of who was it? The Niners, C.J. Stroud, who there was another good offense in there when they were going on that run. So he gets the award for me. I do think if I actually had to vote, I think I would have Ben Johnson. Number two. I had Liam Cohen on there. And let's also not forget about the other.

That spags. I mean, Spags, they lose Ligeria Sneed in the offseason, and they have a top five defense now still. And again, that Chiefs team, how would we be talking about them? Their defense has been winning them some games, maybe not this week against the box, but certainly in the first part of the season. So those are the assistants. Did we miss anyone? Does anyone have any closing comments? I do want to say, for throwing Spags in there, I do think that Todd Munkin deserves some credit. He's 1,000 percent not going to get any because he has the most dynamic course. quarterback in the league and maybe the best running back in the NFL right now. But like last year the story was, oh, this guy, they finally got an adult in the room to call offense. And now that they have a grown up offense, things are taking off for this team. It's even, it's like significantly better this year in the run game and in the passing game. And I think that now it's time to maybe give Lamar his flowers, which I'm not mad at. I just think that we can't forget that Todd Munkin has iterated on what was already a good thing from

last year and made it even better. and obviously the additions help, but you get to see this dropback game, I think really kind of blossom into what I think Monkin always wanted it to be. And now that he has a better rhythm with his quarterback, I think we're starting to see that manifest itself on a weekly basis. It's probably a good thing for the Ravens, honestly, because if this was like a young, you know,

a hot shot coach who was looking to make the next leap in his career, then you'd be like they got to redo this. I don't know, maybe that'll happen for Monkin, but there is a scenario where that offense is just like awesome, year in and year out, and they just get to keep him. That's kind of rare now in the NFL to just be able to keep the offensive coordinator who you really like, who's really good.

So maybe it'll work out for the Baltimore Ravens in that respect. All right, that was a lot of fun. Thank you to Deontay Lee. Thank you to Nora Princiotti. Thank you to Stephen Ruiz, Troy Farkas, producing for us, additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgapal.

Appreciate everyone listening. We'll be back later this week on The Ringer NFL show.