The Ringer NFL Show - NFL News Analysis | The Ringer NFL Show

Episode Date: September 1, 2020

The Ringer’s Kevin Clark is joined by Nora Princiotti to discuss the latest Jacksonville Jaguars moves (3:53), the Eagles' injury woes (27:48), and more. Host: Kevin Clark Guest: Nora Princiotti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Use promo code The Ringer at checkout to save 15%. It is The Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer Podcast. I'm Kevin Clark, joined today by the ringers, Noel Princeati, a deep dive of news items coming to you, including the Jacksonville Jaguars who cut Leonard Fournette, couldn't find a trade partner for him. Doug Morone told everybody they were trying to find a trade partner, and there were no takers for a fifth, six, seventh round pick, and that was kind of a dig-it for Nett in his way out. And then on Sunday, they did find a trade partner for Yonic and Gakwe. It's in Minnesota Vikings.

Two picks coming to Jacksonville and Gakway taking a $6 million restructure. order to get out of Jacksonville. Neither of these moves necessarily have anything to do with the 2020 bottom line for the Jaguars. I think they were going to be bad no matter what. If anything, it puts kind of a bow on an era of Jaguars football that I guess you could say started in 2017, maybe 2016, where they put together a very talented team that we can't say it was an out of nowhere aFC championship game participant team because when you look at the talent, you look at the that roster, there was a reason they were there. But it was definitely one of the more unexpected runs and one of the most unexpected follow-ups on those runs where the team

basically fell apart in the ensuing years. Almost all of the talent left, and that continued with In Gakway on Sunday. Leonard Fornett is a symbol of something else. He was drafted in the top five. He was not a quarterback. They rolled with Blake Bordles. That's separate conversation we'll get to you later. However, I do want to address that we talk about Derwin James in this episode, and we couch it by saying we don't know the severity. So there's a little bit more of an opening that there could be some optimism that Derwin James's knee injury is not serious.

However, after we stopped recording, James was diagnosed with a knee injury that's going to keep him out six to eight months. He's going to need surgery. So the tone of our conversation remains the same. The outlook on the chargers remains the same. It's just we know now what this looks like. And the things we say later in this conversation

about the chargers and how this is kind of one step towards a bad season for them in a year where I think things could have gone right for them if they had gotten the breaks, Nora agrees. We now know a little bit more about that. So James out six to eight months, very, very serious. And after what happened last year and having seen James on a football field, both in college and pro, we know what a dynamic player he is. It's nothing short of a football tragedy that he is going to miss second straight season. or at least the majority of a second straight season since he played five games last year.

Now, one more item that broke after we stopped recording, Andy Reid and Brett Veach signed long-term extensions in Kansas City. Not a ton to break down here. When you have one of the best play callers in the sport, one of the best quarterbacks that we've seen in decades, I don't know where you put that in a separate conversation, and the GM who makes it all work and fits everybody under the cap, when you've got those three ingredients, you keep those.

This offseason, they've been able to basically keep every important person together in Kansas City. That continues. So there's not a whole lot of analysis needed here. If he got a chance to keep Andy Reading, Brett Veach around, you do it. Okay, onto the show. I want to start out with the biggest news of the day, which is we just found out that producer, Isaiah, our valuable producer here on the Ring Round Round of Fowl show, is a Jaguars fan. he grew up in Michigan, looked at the lions and said, no thank you, which is not uncommon

when you're growing up in Michigan. But then he looked at the David Gaur at MJD Jags and said, these are my guys. And so we had some really good discussion about the state of the Jaguars before we started here. And that's where we want to start, Nora, is the 2017 Jaguars are officially dead. Welcome to the funeral. The weirdest team that competed over the past decade has been officially disbanded. Leonard Fournett has been cut. Yonik and Gacway has been traded to the Minnesota Vikings. We will get into all of the ramifications of those two moves, but I want to start first with Fournet. Nora, pretty obvious reasons to cut Leonard Fournet. James Palmer had this. He was one of 10 running backs with 600 or more carry since 2017. His 3.95 yards per carry was second lowest. Only Carlos Hyde was lower.

Carlos Hyde catching astray here. Nora, surprise about Leonard Fournett? No. I mean, it was sort of out there that they were trying to trade him. I think Doug Marone said today, Adam Schaeftre tweeted this, we couldn't get anything, a fifth, a sixth, anything. We couldn't get anything. So I think there had been some attempts made.

It didn't go the way they wanted. just an overall downward trajectory, both for that relationship and for that team, which reached its high point in that AFC championship game. And it's not good. You were there for it, correct? I was there during Tom Brady slashing his hand open mania. Man, Kevin, if Miles Jack had been down, would we? would we be having a different conversation right now?

Nora, just so the listener knows, I took a sip of coffee as you were discussing Miles Jack being down. I knew the can of worms it was going to open, and so I choked on it a little bit, and I just did about 15 seconds of coughing. There's some real debate in Jacksonville whether or not Miles Jack was down, but we're not going to get into that.

I'm going to let you handle Jaguars Twitter, and I'm going to move on. Now, the final four quarterbacks in 2017, so January of 2018 of those playoffs, were Tom Brady, who is routinely in the final four, but then Blake Bordals, Nick Foles, Casey, Hennam. The Jaguars were a team built on a premise that was, its time was very short. And that is that you could win with a really great defense, with just enough offense,

and there were some things that aged really poorly with how that team was built. Number one is obviously they drafted Leonard Fournett in the top five, Patrick Mahomes and Deshawn Watson were on the board. There are a lot of teams that made that mistake. We won't go down that rabbit hole one more time. But the next year is 2018, Patrick Mahomes, Deshawn Watson's healthy after his 2017 Sterling debut. Lamar Jackson comes into the league, starts playing in 2018. Obviously doesn't really become the superstar until 2019. But you start to look at the game just changing and passing stats and passing volume even more.

I mean, there was a passing boom from 2011 to 2018 that went down in 2018, but then a new generation picked up the reins to 2019. That looks like it's never going to stop again. But the Jaguars were just a team built out of its era. And they got, they overachieved. They did well concerning the circumstances. I guess you could say if that call had been different, they would have made the Super Bowl. And I remember being in that press box and thinking they were going to make the Super Bowl. And I was getting ready for an Eagles, Nick Foles, Blake Portals, Super Bowl.

And, you know, I just, I think we're going to look back on this team and have to explain to a lot of people why that game was happening and why the Jaguars went into Pittsburgh and put up a ton of points in one, why they played Tyrod Taylor in the first round of the playoffs at a home playoff game. I mean, it was one of the strangest things. I've seen since I've started the league, started covering the league. And now that entire team essentially was dismantled. There were Evan Silva pointed this out. There were six pro bowlers in that defense of 2016. Jalen Ramsey, Yonick and Gokwey,

AJ Boy, Kaleas Campbell, Mleek Jackson, Telfin Smith. All of them have gotten different values. Jalen Ramsey commanded a huge hall. And I think that was actually probably a good trade for Jacksonville. Callas Campbell got the fifth round pick. Malik Jackson left as a free agent. Yonnik and Gakwe, however, was traded on Sunday for two mid-round picks.

And I'm curious from a Viking standpoint, Nora, what do you think? You know, it's funny because we've talked a lot about how the NFC North is just kind of, I think it's very mediocre. I'm not super inspired by anyone in there. But I think it's smart in a situation where, there is an opening, you know, there's no one where we're predicting, oh, they're going to run away with that division.

I like that they're going for it. I like that they're taking a big swing and, you know, adding a playmaker to a team that, the reason that I don't love the Vikings is because I think their weaknesses are on the offensive line and in the secondary. And those are just two areas where if I have,

you know, worries about a team's roster, that really gives me concerns because I think that those are the more stable areas of good teams. That said, there's some real talent at the skill positions. Kirk Cousins is a solid quarterback. They've made some really smart moves just in the construction of the roster.

You wrote about how smart they've been with contracts this week. And the pass rush could be really, really good. And when you're not competing against, you know, they're not in a division with the chiefs, I think taking a big swing is super worth it. And particularly because, you know, you get a guy who's super motivated to leave his old team, they're paying him $12 million this year instead of Jacksonville paying him $17.8 million on the franchise tag. So why, I mean, it seems like a great move to me, frankly.

It's phenomenal. It's a phenomenal piece of business to give up two mid-round picks. You cannot extend him because the deadline has been passed, but you can read, adjust the contract. You can restructure the contract. So he takes $12 million, essentially not play for Jacksonville anymore. And one of the things that I think is important that I've heard from GMs in the past is that when you become a good team, you get breaks like this. And it just builds on itself and the guys want to be in this locker room. They don't want to play in a place like Jacksonville. AJ Boyer came out and I think it was serious radio he

talked to in March. And he said that he had never, quote, I've just never seen that before. when talking about fighting in the locker room, disagreements, just sort of open, you know, open tension. And just what was going on in a locker room, I don't think from what it sounds like, from people like AJ Boy who've been there, it sounds like people just don't want to be there right now. And they're rebuilding and they're not going to reach the heights

they did a couple of years ago. And I think that a team like the Vikings where guys want to play for Mike Zimmer in that defense, there are really good players around there. And, you know, I remember talking, and this is a bad example because he got fired eventually, but I remember talking to John Dorsey about this. And he built a good, a good chief's team. But he made a bunch of trades for veterans in 2017 when he took over the Browns. He traded for a couple X Packers and just guys who

are solid. And so why did you do that? Like, why are you accelerating the timetable? And he said, because otherwise you're going to have to overpay for everything because guys, don't want to come to a loser, they want to come to a winner. And they want to play with people they know, and they don't want to play with a bunch of people who are, you know, unproven or a bunch of guys who were just playing to see if they can play in the case of some of these teams. But if you're the Vikings, Yonnik and Gakwe took $6 million less to play for you. And that's important.

And that's the sign of a good organization. Now, the Vikings, you talked about the offensive line, that might get worse if they caught Riley Reef, who is up for, I guess, for a restructure because of this. They're right up against the cap. The Vikings, the Saints and the Chiefs are the Holy Trinity of kicking the cap down the road and making everything fit financially. But I feel like having to cut Riley Reef two weeks before training camp would be a bit of a detriment. Nora, NFC North, prediction time. Go.

I would at this point pick the Vikings. You're going to pick the Vikings. Yeah. Now, okay. So I'm also picking the Vikings. And I think, and this is me with the Texans too. I feel like there's a wisdom of the crowds thing here that I'm missing. Like I understand Stefan Diggs is really important.

I understand that Everson Griffin was really important. Just emotionally, I remember I was on the field before the Niners Vikings game. And Everson Griffin, like, he was the guy. He was yelling at people. He was yelling at people on the sidelines, for instance, like me. I didn't know who I was. Just kind of yelling at people and saying, get ready. And I don't see that very often.

but I think that they their ability to have continuity before Yannick and Gakway was acquired yesterday every single player it was projected to start on their defense had been drafted by them and that was almost the case on offense obviously Reef came from somewhere else Kirk cousins came from somewhere else but they know how to build from within they know the structure Gary Kubiak was not offensive coordinator last year but he was an assistant head coach and he the Kubiak principles were in place generally. Mike Zimmer has been doing the same stuff on defense for a long time.

So I think that there's a real case to be made that they can improve or at least stay similar to what they were last year, which is the team that lost in the divisional round. And if I expect a little bit of regression from the Packers, and I do, I think both of those teams are kind of in the 10-win, 11-win range,

and then just something happens late in the season and that determines it. So I'm picking the Vikings, but not with a ton of confidence. Yeah, this move was really helpful just from my own confidence in my picks perspective, just because emotionally, I would sort of rather take the Packers, but I think when I really look at it overall, I think this is a stronger roster. And then they just, it's so helpful sometimes when teams will just go out and do one thing

and you can say, okay, well, now I'm more confident in making this pick. So that's a total cop out, but that's why I'm picking the Vikings. There's a lot of those. And we're going to get to one a little later in the show. I would say the Patriots opt-outs are in that bucket where I was like, man, totally. Finally pick against the Patriots. There's some NFCE stuff that we'll get to a little bit later.

But yeah, it's, it's, I feel like, even though I'm a little bit wary of saying any one defender makes a huge difference in a weird way, this is, this is giving me much comfort to pick the Vikings here. Generally, I don't want to do any more Jaguars talk, but we're going to just to get it out of here. Jaguars, inside track or Trevor Lawrence? Yeah, certainly the inside track, right? I mean, they have six picks in the first four rounds now. It's two first rounders, second, third, two fourths. The thing I would say is things can change. Obviously, the drafts a long way away,

but you kind of got to be the worst team in football for that. So with the caveat that all the draft capital in the world doesn't really matter if there's a team ahead of you and they want to draft him, I would say that, yeah, if I had to choose a team, certainly them. Yeah, and again, it's going to be a weird draft in the sense

that there will be no Joe Burrow this year, or if there is, there will be less data behind it because, quite frankly, there's just less games and less teams playing. So there won't be a guy who we're not talking about in August,

who by December is a runaway first overall pick. So that helps guys like Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields. And, you know, a guy like Trey Lance will play one game in the fall from what I've read. And so it's going to be a weird time for quarterback evaluation. So I'm guessing Trevor Lawrence is the guy and I'm guessing

that I can't wait for the first do the Jaguars roll with Minchu if they had the first overall pick story. I feel like maybe around Halloween. Yeah, that feels right or like, that feels right. Well, maybe early November, November, Gardner Minchew's month. Well, there'll be a lot of Halloween costumes for Gardner Minchew. If Halloween happens, we'll just, that's something to monitor. Halloween is. It's Halloween. I'm not optimistic about Halloween happening. The stuff is in the grocery stores now, though.

It's insane. There's Halloween stuff in the grocery stores? Yeah, it's August. Still, technically. We're recording Monday afternoon, and by Tuesday morning, the switch is going to have flipped across America. And everybody's just going to be wearing, like there's pumpkins everywhere.

I didn't know about this. Thank you for telling me. Which hats? Yeah, no, it's Halloween mode. Okay, so last thing I'm, on the Jaguars. I mean, I can't tell if that era of Jaguars football was a success. And what I mean by that is that they're just, they've not been a great franchise.

There's no secret there, even though Isaiah picked them because he loved David Gerard and MJD. They have not historically been a phenomenal franchise. NFL research said this. They've made eight picks in the top five in their franchise history. and only three of those players received a second contract. Blake Bortles, Kevin Hardy, and Tony Bisselli. The fact that they gave, the Blake Bortle's thing is a little interesting

because some of it had to do with the cap, but they still committed to Blake Bortals when there was a chance they could have moved on from them. They got mixed up in some cap situations where they signed Clay's Campbell for big money, they sign Malik Jackson for big money, EJ. Boye. But at one point, they were flying, man. and Jalen Ramsey and AJ Boy were the two best cornerbacks statistically on football during that season.

It was an unbelievable defense. And they were a couple breaks away from the Super Bowl. It ended. But I think that as far as, you know, going from the depths to success, it was not a bad team building job. I would just say keeping that success going was a colossal failure. That part of it was really bad. And that's a huge, huge part of building a football team. is being able to extend that. And if you do have cat problems, operate more like the Saints and the Chiefs and the Vikings and figure it out instead of just letting everybody go and then letting AJ Boyer give interviews to Sirius XM where they said that everybody's fighting in the locker room.

So next time the Jaguars have this, let me operate a little bit differently. They should call you. You'll give that advice. They should call me. They should call me to say, whatever you guys did last time, don't do that. That would be helpful.

Actually, I wish I had a person that I could call just for that and say, hey, remember when I did? And they could just say, yeah, don't, not, never again. But it is interesting in a way that, you know, Gawai ends up getting traded to the Vikings because this is a little bit of a stretch. But the Vikings, you talked about how many of their picks are on second contracts for them. it's a little bit like the alternate universe good version of what we all wondered if the Jags were going to be able to navigate when they had all those players, right?

Because the big question back then was, wow, this is such a fun team. They're overperforming. It's a blast to watch. The defense is incredible. But how are they going to pay all these guys when they need to pay them? Now, I would argue that more things went wrong than just running into cap trouble. But watching the Vikings what they're doing, and it helps that they have a good quarterback, obviously, but navigating the waters of kind of retooling your roster, but remaining competitive, it goes to show how difficult that actually is, but also how important getting those little breaks like a player being willing to do. take 12 million instead of 18 are because I think the difference between those paths is actually

a little bit narrower than it seems like an incredible chasm. But, you know, it just shows you that these things are hard. Yeah. It's almost impossible. And I don't want to make this a Patriot show, but it shows you the fact that they were so good at managing mid-level veterans and retaining cap flexibility for so long. I mean, it was. it's legitimately unprecedented how how they were able to be windowproof for as long as they had Tom Brady. And I think there are certain, I think that with the defense and all that stuff, without the opt-outs, they probably would have continued that window. I just think it's a little bit different this year. But again, I don't want to do the Patriots thing. Otherwise, we're talking

about the Patriots for 30 minutes. Okay, Derwin James. So let's not overreact, but the Chargers have said that he left, I get, we all know this, he left practice on Sunday, and they used basically the same morning they used a year ago this time when he had a foot stress fracture. And they said he will be evaluated. Of course, the treatment would be determined. James missed the first 11 games in the season. This is according to Daniel Popper, who pulled the initial statement last year. So he's got another injury. I'm getting worried about it. So Derwin James is to me, a top 10 most fun player to watch in the NFL. I think when he's healthy, he's the best safety in football.

I saw a stat when I was doing some research on this, that when Darwin James was healthy in 2018, his passer rating allowed to tight ends was 21. The NFL average is according to football focus. The NFL average was 104. It's pretty good. Nora, the Chargers. Yeah.

Well, so, It's funny that you say the Chargers. I'm one, my take on this is that I'm sad. Yes. I don't mean to overreact. We said we weren't going to do that, but I'm sad. We're not going to overreact because it's possible that the right knee injury that he has is not all that. Maybe it's just a tweak and he's out there next week.

It could be. I mean, I think it's so I think he's getting a second opinion. Adam Schaefter had that. But it seems like the low end is that he would need a meniscus trim, which we would be a few weeks, but we're talking about weeks or months. Yeah. So it's not nothing. It's not what you want.

It's just not what you want. However, I will say, I am mostly sad for Derwin James. I am then sad for us because he's incredibly fun to watch play football. And all the Charger fans in Los Angeles. Okay. I know you're here to dunk on the Charger fans. However, have you seen that they've just been. Bernie Sanders meaming to death their official Chargers account.

I've missed this. So whenever, before they did the Bosa deal and then... Oh, yeah, I did see this part. Yeah. They're just a daily onslaught. And now it's Keenan Allen. The, I am once again asking you to extend Keenan Allen. I think it's hysterical.

So I want to be on record here. Chargers fans get a lot of hate for not exist. I don't know if that's hate or whatever else that would be, but I'm very proud of them. And I think it's a good bit. And we acknowledge good bits on this show. So we do acknowledge good bits. We love a good bit. I was in San Diego over the weekend and I am against them leaving.

San Diego, I took it all in. I took it all in. I saw the sites in San Diego. And I don't think they should have left. This is my professional opinion. Okay. Sorry, I got, I got sidetracked by proving that the Chargers have fans and that they're good on Twitter. What I was going to say was that my sadness for the Chargers as a team, frankly, is kind of behind Derwin James and us because I don't know that they're a playoff team really either way.

Maybe. Okay, so, so they have, they go from Phillip Rivers at Tarad Taylor. and I think when I look at their roster that they've got enough pieces to get in the mix. If you had a healthy Derwin James playing at his 2018 level, if you had Chris Harris, Linval Joseph, all of these nice little pieces, I like their roster building. Obviously, Joey Bosa, some of the Blue Chip guys that they've drafted. I like their pieces.

But if you don't have elite quarterback play, and I really like taking. but I don't think he's elite. If you don't have that in this era, you have to have everything else break right. And this is the first step towards things not breaking right. Yeah. I mean, I agree with that sort of conceptually. I just, no matter how good he is, it's hard for me to feel like one defensive player is, is going to swing that. But, well, I, yes and no. I mean, defense is a weak link thing, right? Like, if you have someone who's not Darwin James and he's, And he's, that's just, even if you acquire someone or whatever, even if it's a long-term thing, it's just not, it's not the same.

So I think it's that. A couple of people have pointed out just how many terrible injuries the charges have had to start the season, 2017, Mike Williams, Denzel Perryman, Jason Barrett. 2018, Joey Bosa was out 10 games, Hunter Henry out for the entire year. Last year, Derwin James, Russell Okun, this year, Derwin James. I mean, this team cannot figure out the injury situation. and I don't know what that is. And I, you know, I think that they have always been a roster who have been more talented than they've played.

I mean, listen, you want to talk about breaks. I mean, they were in the, I think that sometimes we forget about these teams that push really good teams are a limit. That's almost like the 2017 Jaguars, right, where they didn't get there. And so they become a footnote to history. Two years ago, this team was right there with the chiefs, right there. with the chiefs and no one seems to care anymore. And they fell out of favor last year and there's almost no buzz about them. And I think that this is a team that at some point, if they ever got all of their pieces healthy and they got a good quarterback play, I think that they could compete.

I just think that, again, this is the first step towards, oh, my God, it's another Charger's season. Yeah, I'm sad. Speaking of injuries that swing things, let's talk about the NFC East. So, Andre Dillard, who I was on Mina Kimes' show last week, and I don't actually know how much we talked about this on air, but we discussed Andre Dillard as a candidate who would be really important to the Eagles' chances if he just took a step forward. Because I loved him coming out of college, loved him. I thought he was athletic. I thought that he was just the perfect modern lineman. He wasn't as good as maybe I anticipated last year, but he's their left tackle, and he tore his bicep of practice.

on over the weekend. He's out for the season, obviously. Adam Schaefter said he was, quote, dominant in camp. And you already lost Brandon Brooks, who was, I think PFF had him as like a top five player overall in the entire league, Brandon Brooks. So the Eagles to me, and they were a team I picked to make the Super Bowl last year,

I looked at their roster, even though everybody was mad at their draft, I looked at their roster and said, this is a team that can still really win the NFC East, especially if you buy the theory that I've could, convince myself of, which is really hard to become a new coach this year. I really like them in the NFC East. And I'm increasingly not liking them in the NFC East. Nora, help me make up my mind. Well, I mean, I've made up my mind. I would pick the cowboys. You can jump on that bandwagon if you

would like to. I was going to go with the Giants. I just love what Joe Judge is doing. Yeah, I mean, so I was never as high on the Eagles as you were, but it's not good. I think they moved Jason Peters back to Dillard's spot at left tackle. But that's just a lot of attrition. And beyond that, I mean, they have no depth. Now you have a whole, you have a whole guard now. Well, right. And I don't see them on the same sort of level as Dallas.

I didn't really to begin with, but I really don't, now that we're starting to see some of these injury problems. So they vary in seriousness. And obviously some of them were just, you know, little tiny things. But Zach Berman, our friend here at the ringer, I don't know if he's your friend. Is he your friend? No, he is my friend. He's my friend. He's my friend.

We covered all those Eagles beat guys, the Patriots Eagles Super Bowl. We spent a lot of time in Fridid Minnesota together. Love that. Love that Eagles beat. Okay, so he tweeted this the other day, and I can't stop looking at it. At this moment, the Eagles are now practicing this in August 30th, so this was on Sunday. At this moment, the Eagles are now practicing without their top picks in the last five drafts. Jalen Rager, Andre Dillard, Dallas Goddard, Derek, Barnett, and Carson Wentz. So, look, some of those are not serious.

Andre Dillard is out for the season. We don't necessarily know about Jalen Rager, except we know that it's not. serious. There was some little bit of panic on Sunday, but it seems he tweeted he was going to be back soon. I think there's some optimism there. Carson Wentz can be fine. But the Eagles have gotten some really bad injury luck. And it's kind of funny, funny being relative here. I was looking at some of the injury luck stuff from a couple of years ago. And the Eagles were one of the healthiest teams in the NFL. And this just happens is the injuries are random. And I don't, you know, they keep switching out their medical staff and don't necessarily know what, what that does. I,

I literally don't. I'm not the doctor, so I don't know if changing your medical staff works or not. But I do know that this is just getting into a territory where I just don't think that they have the depth. And one of the reasons that the Eagles, to me, are one of the best run teams in the NFL, is their ability to build their roster almost flawlessly.

And that was the reason they were able to overcome Carson Wentz, tearing his ACL during an MVP season, is that the cap was just flawlessly managed. They were able to build through both of the lines. I've told that story before about how basically someone in Philadelphia made fun of me for thinking that they won because of analytics or whatever. And the person was like, no, they, we won because we built up the lines and the analytics are about 50th on the list of reasons they won.

But I just think that, yeah, I'm just getting a little concerned about their ability when you just look at this Cowboys team. Now, Todd Archer said yesterday for the second straight practice, Amarie Cooper is not doing much of anything, but it's, it's no, as not even come close to approaching unless you count Gerald McCoy, which I think they were taking a flare on him anyway. It's not coming close to approaching the, the problems that the Eagles are having with injuries. Nora, the Dallas Cowboys, when you think about them, not just from an NFC East perspective, or from NFC perspective, where do you have them? Well, I have them a hair below the Saints. I'm like giving up all my picks here.

a hair below the saints, but absolutely a contender. What are you keeping your picks for? Well, I don't know. Are we going to do, maybe we do like a picks thing. We can, but it's not like some people are going to see them and say, oh, Nora, she already talked about the cowboys and their pecking order in the NFC. So I'm going to delete this episode immediately. You know what it's like?

It's like Mike McCarthy having everybody wear nameless jerseys to the scrimmage. I won't reveal my picks. Okay, I don't want to do you have them as the second best team of the NFC or not? Because that's not because I think that if you having them as the third best team of the NFC, if you think if they win the NFC East is not a take. But having them above either the Saints or the 49ers is a take. Do you have either of those takes ready? No, I have the non-take version of that ready.

Okay. So do why. So why? They're either, it's, it's them and the bucks are sort of where I got to make a choice. Oh, I don't know. I don't know. All right, we'll get to that on the picks episode. What do you mean you don't know?

Which is yet to be scheduled. I don't know. I mean, I just, the, the Bucks thing to me is really fascinating because I think that, I think the one seed is going to be so important this year because they're going to get the buy. And they're going to play home playoff games in a weird year. And I think winning the division is incredibly important. And I kind of think you have to pick either of the sense of the Bucks. to be in that NFC championship game

because I think it seems really hard to win on the road this year. But that's... Well, sure, but if I'm choosing between three and four. Yeah, I'm just, I'm saying if we're picking the final four teams in the playoffs. Yeah, no, I won't have the,

I don't think I'll have the Cowboys in there. I don't think I do either. I think I'm going pure shock. I think I'm just going Saints, Niners, Ravens, Chiefs. Cancel the Picks episode. It's out. It's out.

episode is over. So Todd Archer and many others reported that on Sunday's practice on TV, the Cowboys, will not have jerseys with numbers on them. They did not have numbers on them. Offense was in white. Defense was in blue. This is a quote from Todd Archer. Mike McCarthy believes the element of surprise matters more with no preseason games in 2020.

So let's unpack that for a second. Okay. I've talked to GMs. I, you know, Rick Spielman in today's column being one of them, where they talk about the little differences in evaluation, things like the fact that there's going to be no preseason tape, expanded practice squad, so players can just basically get stashed away at a higher rate than they're used to. But I don't actually think that there's this element of surprise here. I think that they're trying to hide good players and keep them on the practice squad or whatever, because they have more slots. And if there's a great,

linebacker who's working with the twos who there's not going to make the team they want to be able to keep that but i don't think that there's going to be like a scheme surprise that because there's no numbers or anything i don't think there's the eagles are watching this scrimmage and saying who's playing quarterback for the cowboy who is this guy looks like doc prescott we can't make we can't be positive that's dac prescott because he doesn't have a four on them so i think that there are actually some advantages that not having numbers but it's not the whole team and if you're really that concerned, just don't play the players. If you're really that concerned about some player being discovered or something,

just to have the scrimmage behind closed doors, don't have it on TV. I can see every side of this. I actually don't think that McCarthy's being like a huge dork about this. Like I think that this is not, we're not in Joe Judge territory necessarily, but I do think it's kind of paranoid. I would love it if like, I want to see Doc Prescott and Z. Gelliot show up like both sitting on each other's shoulders wearing a trench coat

and like Groucho Marx glasses and like Citi Lambs dressed up as Hercule Poirot and like we're just going for it. I love it. I love the element of surprise. I did not expect an Agatha Christie reference during our Mike McCarthy portion. Maybe the Jaguars portion. Maybe the maybe the Vikings portion, but not the Cowboys portion.

Okay, so I do want to point out. So Jane Slater reported that not every team knew about the rules, the loophole that allowed Mike McCarthy to do this. I would like Mike McCarthy to rebrand as a Belichick-style rules guru. I love that. I love that for any coach. They're also, okay, I wasn't going to say this because I'm really invested in not bringing up the Patriots at every turn, which is going to be hard for me.

But there was a lot of speculation that the Patriots were doing that by not letting a rookie punter punt during training camp last year. And the idea was that he was like a secret weapon. But then he didn't make the team. Did he make any team? The bills picked him up. Oh, that's good. Maybe the hype around him not punting got other teams to be like, this is our guy.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. There's all sorts of tricks people do. I remember a coach telling me years ago, five or six years ago, that they really hated when, like, I don't know, like really good, especially ex-scouts or XGM media members would come to practice because they would always be really good at identifying, like, which undrafted bubble guy was really good. And then they would say it like on the radio and it'd say it on TV. And it was like having evaluators or ex-evaluators in the media was a huge problem for them because they really wanted to keep a lot of bubble guys secret. And I just don't think, I think this, the bubble stuff is just so different this year.

And I think with there aren't 90 guys in the roster, practice squads are bigger. So it's going to be easier to sneak guys on. I just think everything is going to change a little bit. And so, yeah, I don't think that this is going to have anything to do with wins or losses. but I do like Mike McCarthy as the rules grew. What is the most, when you were on the Patriots beat, what is the most kind of preseason practice, whatever it is gamesmanship that you saw from Bill Belichick?

The thing that comes to mind first was when this wasn't like preseason gamesmanship really though, but in my, so I covered them for four years. And I think after two years was when he stopped giving the rookies normal numbers. But that was sort of like an earner strength. Were he give them symbols? No, he would give them. just like insane numbers, like a rookie quarterback.

Like Jared Stidham was wearing like 78 or something. Like it was just bananas. And they all thought it was really weird. He should have kept 78. Like when a baseball player, like when a baseball player gets like 64 and he just keeps it forever because it's so sentimental. Well, the funniest part is sometimes you would hear from their moms who would reach out to beat writers and be like, when are they going to get the normal numbers?

I want to order his jersey and all of our friends want his jersey and we just don't know. And we don't think that's going to be it. And I would have to say like, I'm really sorry. Wait till the season starts. There are rules. It'll have to change. They'll get to. But it would go in, it would sort of go in the order that they were drafted like numerically.

But all the numbers were just bananas. But that was, again, it was more of you don't get a real number until. you've earned it thing more than a gamesmanship thing. The gamesmanship thing that I've always heard, this is Patriots related, but that Rutgers, when with Greg Shiana was always notoriously horrible with their pro day,

where they would just, you know, I mean, you're doing a pro day tour. You get to go to a lot of nice places in the South and California and blah, blah, blah, blah. But then you'd be at Rutgers in New Jersey. And, you know, the weather might be terrible. And all of scouts, GMs, whoever was there, just way off in some corner, like, terrible vantage point. Yeah.

And the only person who would actually get good information and a good place to, you know, observe was whoever was there for the Patriots because of Bill Belichick's relationship there. But then apparently when Shiano was in the NFL, that was a big issue because he'd made a lot of enemies. Yeah. So, yes, that's what you're going to say. So two things. Number one is that at some point, the Payserich has became a Rutgers graduate employment scheme. I mean, there's just everybody. But the level of hatred for Greg Shiano in other NFL buildings who had nothing to do with Greg Shiano except they had sent scouts and executives to watch Rutgers players was through the real.

roof. It was through the roof. I remember being in a facility when he first got the buck's job, whatever that was, 2013. And this GM, I don't even know the GM. I even know the GM. I'm talking to somebody else, and this GM within 30 seconds, it's like, man, Greg Shiano, one asshole. And I was just like, what are we doing here? Wow. It was, it was wild how much they didn't like Greg Shiano at the NFL level. And I think, I will say, I think there was a, there were such a blowback. Like, once he started to, to go down the tubes a little bit, there were tons of stories about how much people hated Greg Shiano. And I think that the early, I think that the fact that he was so poorly, uh, not thought of, because I think people thought

he was really a coach. I think Greg Shana's a good coach. By the way, this is separate from that. I think Greg Shana is really good coach. I'm just saying that those scouts and those GMs love to complain about how they were treated at Rutgers. And that's part of that's kind of funny because they just see it through their own sort of experience. But it's also just that that's reality is that scouts and GMs really like to be treated well and they base a lot of things on that. It was a hugely impactful decision to make people sit uncovered in the rain in New Jersey.

Let that be a lesson. It's not a great state to be in the rain. No. What's a good state to be in the rain? I as someone who has been through a lot of Florida thunderstorms I could say I can safely say that's usually fine it's usually hot enough the sun comes out you can dry off okay I'm not I'm not totally against Florida thunderstorms because they're just so they're just so quick I would say Bon Jovi's probably been rained on more than anybody in New Jersey I'd say I feel like he's just constantly been rained on in different photo shoots and and music videos So that's that's that's that's my take noted Patriots fan yeah also very famous Taylor Swift concert in a downpour at MetLife Stadium also notoriously in New Jersey I was you're probably not in the beat at this point there

the day that Tim Tebow had his first practice at Foxborough State at a Foxxford practice field there Jolet Stadium was the same day that Taylor Swift had a concert at Jolette Stadium for the, I believe, the red tour, would that be what it was called? So that, or the reputation tour? I don't know. I think it was before that. It's 2013, probably. Oh my gosh, that's crazy.

Yeah. Yeah, that would have been right. Yeah. And I just remember just, it was, it was very similar yet completely different. Like there was this huge aura around Tebow and everybody, everybody, everybody, wanted to see Tebow, but then, like, if you were just on the other side, it was all those people getting ready for the Taylor Swift concert. And it was one of the strangest days I can remember at a facility. And also, every single feature writer in the world was trying to get Tebow

and he wouldn't talk to anybody. I didn't know where you were going to go with that, but I love where it wound up. I just, I missed Tebow Media from the, from the Patriots perspective. And I wish, I'm just trying to sort of superimpose that on top of because I too have attended a Patriots training camp practice that overlapped with a Taylor Swift Gillette Stadium sound check day. And I think of those days fondly, but it would have been, I think the experience would have been augmented by the presence of Tim Tebow. So I was in my second year in the NFL that day. And the way the Patriots do media availability is, as you know, is, as you know, is. is in a very small corner. And if you try to get a player one-on-one,

it's really hard to get them without people coming in. So I was trying to get a player. May have been, may have actually been Matthew Slater. I was just trying to get just like a general, like Belichick and I remember what it was. And every time I would get a player, all of the other reporters would just pile in.

And I couldn't get any, even one question that it was really bad. And right next to me was Tom Curran, who was getting, who's been on Rusillo, he's the man. But he was getting guys alone. And someone came up to me. And they could see I was getting frustrated.

And they were like, you see what current has? And I was like, what? He's like, that's called the cone of respect. And nobody gets in his cone of respect because he's earned it. And he's like, one day you're going to have that. And I was like, man, that's an amazing point. And so I always now judge when I'm in those scenarios,

like a Patriots practice, when there's just a huge throng of reporters, if someone gives you the cone of respect, you've sort of made it. I hate that we just did like 10 minutes of Patriots stuff, but I love that we just did like a minute of Tom Curran stuff. It's just, it's the biz. It's the biz, the cone of respect.

Well, you're in, you're in my cone of respect, Kevin. Thank you. I feel like I've got a little bit of a cone of respect now. It's not, the radius isn't as big, but I feel like there's a, it's a very, very small. It's not a house. It's like a condo of respect. That's all. That's all.

All right, let's get to some notes here. Lamar Jackson. The Ravens are extremely coy about how much he will be running this year. I thought it was interesting. Jameson Hensley wrote this on ESPN today. He said that last year, both Steve Boshadhi and Jackson himself, said they would run the ball less with him last year. They had less designed runs.

And, well, they set the record for Russia attempts by a quarterback. and Lamar Jackson ranked 23rd among all players in carries last year. So, spoiler, he did not run the ball less frequently than he did the prior year. But Greg Roman's been asked about whether or not he's going to run the ball, and he keeps saying, we'll see. So I don't know. John Harbaugh has said that he'd like to see Lamar Jackson take the next step in his deep passing. But I also think that with a shortened training camp and all these guys on Zoom,

Lamar Jackson running people over is a pretty easy path to competition. Nora? I think that's right. I mean, we've had this conversation before. There is often a lot to be said for defenses adjusting to players that they've seen more. That adjustment gets a lot harder, one, this offseason, but two, when you're talking about a player that you cannot necessarily physically mimic with guys on other teams, I would. There's a reason I don't run the Baltimore Ravens, but I would do it. until it doesn't work anymore.

What are the reasons you don't run the Ravens? Man, off the top of my head. I don't know. I guess I just, I went to college in Washington, D.C. I think that was enough time in the Mid-Atlantic for me. Well, so it's a personal choice that you don't have Eric Takas's job. Okay. I just wanted to get it on the record.

All right. If offered, she would not serve. No, I would. So here's the thing, though. Here's the thing. When you first started making this point, I thought you, for a second, I heard it as Steve Bishotti saying that he was not personally going to run the ball, which is a little bit analogous to my saying that I will not run the Baltimore Ravens. Steve Bishaddy is among the most onery of owners.

Like he, when you see him at owners meetings, he's doing it, man. Like cigar, no socks with the loafers. I it's a little bit aspirational. It's a little bit aspirational when you see Steve Bichadis, because so many of these guys try to do like that I'm a normal dude. Like I'm just going to wear a golf polo and shorts and just be a normal dude. Steve Bishatty is living and I love it. I absolutely love the idea of who the oneriest owners are.

Well, I mean, I think that there's some owners who I mean, I think Jerry Jones obviously is up there. But that's pretty, yeah. I think Jerry, I mean, I've seen, there's some stories. about Jerry Jones tipping people and stuff like that. I don't know if he's, this is a different pod. It's a different pod.

The owners who, who exude ownership, Steve Boshaddy is on the Mount Rushmore. All right. And by the way, he's obviously shouldn't be a good owner and that organization is really good. And that's why one of the reasons

you don't own the, run the team, Nora. Alvin Kamara, three days of unexcused absences, appears to be contract, related according to Adam Schaefter and Adam Schaefter sources. We're just going to keep seeing this with running backs.

Alvin Kamara's dynamic. He has been a Kikag in the Saints machine and not having him would be a big deal. How do they get him on the field, Nora? Well, so I'm a little confused on this. Are the, I think by not participating, he can get fined kind of a lot. So. Well, it's like it's a hold. What has not been made clear to me is it a hold in?

where he's just like sitting in the trainer's table? Right. Or is he just gone? So this is a good question because what I was originally going to say is that like the hold out is kind of over. The hold in is is now the name of the game if you're trying to get a little bit more money. I mean, off the top of my head, I don't know what their their financial situation is, salary cap situation is right now.

I assume it's generally sane. I'll tell you. I'll tell you. For the last decade, for the last decade, it's been not good. So I'm going to assume. that this is not going to end in an immediate huge financial windfall. They are, the saints are four or five, sixth from bottom, which actually is pretty good, relatively speaking.

They have a $4 million in effective cap space. Excuse me, excuse me, $6 million in effective cap space, almost seven. All right. So it feels, and I believe it's been a while since I wrote this piece, but I wrote a piece a while back. Wait, let me stop you right there. Next year, it appears I want to make sure this is right. It appears there are $37 million over the cap next year. Yeah. So that's what I was going to say is that a while back before the salary cap negotiations were done, I did a story about who's just not going to be in a good place next year. And those guys are up there. I'm sure they'll find a way to

Houdini themselves out of it. But financially, I think the options are limited. What we've seen is that it basically comes down to how much of a problem someone's willing to make themselves, you know, will we see a Twitter fight? Will we see other forms of social media gripes? I don't know. I hope, frankly, while I certainly support any player trying to get paid more, it'll be interesting to see just kind of like the test of where that roster is in terms of like everybody feeling like this is the year and, you know, we're all going to band together and rah, ra, ra, ra, ra, because there's been a little bit of that, but then obviously when people's money starts coming into the picture, things change. So I don't know. I bet it just ends,

but we'll see. So I kind of like the Derek Henry approach in so much that they gave him a bunch of upfront money. They said, thank you for what you've done, but didn't really tie themselves up for all that long. I think it was $25 million guaranteed over two years. Yeah. Which, again, running backs don't age well, but if you're only going to give a guy two years worth of guaranteed money, that's fine. And if you have the cap space for it,

Drew Brees, it sounds like he's going to retire after this year. He's got a TV deal lined up, which is unorthodox. And I think that generally, it's, I think their cap situation will probably work itself out,

but I don't know if right now they can commit that kind of upfront money to anybody. And they can do a longer term deal, but once you start talking about running back, it gets tricky. And not everybody wants to be Jerry Jones locked into paying Ezeko Elliott for the rest of the rest of time.

And so I think that it's a tricky situation. I would try to get him some money or just at least get him some more guarantees. But I don't know. I mean, the running back market is tricky. Running back market is tricky volume 6,422. Last thing, Fred Warner, star linebacker with the San Francisco 49ers to put on the COVID-19 restricted list, reserved list,

excuse me, wish him the best, not much to say about that except two weeks out. There hasn't been a player placed on the COVID list in a handful of days. And the success the NFL has been having has actually been quite amazing relative to other sports who are not in the bubble. But wishing the best for Fred. And yeah, the NFL appears. is extremely on track to play in two weeks. That's good news.

It was touch and go. It was touch and go. It really was. I mean, look, I think this is the wrong thing to be sort of like this league triumphalist about, but I was really skeptical about how things were going to go during camp. I sort of will reserve any rara until we get to the point where teams are traveling and interacting and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But, I mean, you know, Fred, all the best to him.

Obviously, don't know with the list if it's an exposure to someone or an actual positive test. Yeah, and we don't know. Yeah, we don't know. That's why we're couching up by saying he's just on the list. He wasn't. We don't know if he says to positive or anything. So I would just say that it's a little bit odd because it almost feels like, oh, they broke their streak. But I would still put this in the category of things are going okay.

Yeah. Listen, all, again, yeah, all the best for Fred. but as a whole, this has been a pretty successful one for the NFL. I agree that we know kind of NFL exceptionalism on this podcast and rooting for the league, except to say that we're happy when games go off without a hitch. We like football and we like to watch football. And I think that most America feels that way, so I think that the fact that a week from this Thursday,

there's going to be regular season game, is deeply meaningful. All right. Anything else? that's it. Any more Jaguars talk? Isaiah, come on, come on the line. What's so? What's up?

Give us 10 seconds on this Jaguars roster move the last couple of days. What do we think? Just hanging for Trevor Lawrence. That's, I mean, it's as obvious as ever. That's it. That's it. That's all we wanted to hear. Thank you, Isaiah.

That has been Jaguars Corner with Isaiah Blakely. This has been an NFL show on recurring segment. We've got two more episodes this week. Really fun. We have a Cowboys episode coming on. Wednesday, then we have a fun guest on Friday's episode as well. Guys to like it. So subscribe, all that stuff.

This has been the Renfell show and Learner Podcast Network.