The Ringer NFL Show - NFL Rule Changes Update, Trey Hendrickson's Standoff, Micah Parsons Buzz, and More

Episode Date: April 3, 2025

Sheil, Steven, and Diante return to discuss updates on the proposed NFL rule changes from earlier in the week. They then talk about Bengals VP Katie Blackburn’s comments on Trey Hendrickson’s contract negotiations (34:34), before shining a light on the chatter surrounding Micah Parsons's imminent extension with the Cowboys (50:31). The crew ends the pod by debating the futures of veteran QBs Aaron Rodgers and Kirk Cousins (1:01:40). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia, Steven Ruiz, and Diante Lee Producer: Chris Sutton Social: Kiera Givens Production Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe show. That's right. I'm back to have the same in-depth NBA conversations you're used to. We're going to talk about the games, the X's and O's, the drama, the playoffs are coming up. And now you get to see every episode in full on video on Spotify and on my own YouTube channel. Episodes drop every Monday and Thursday with a collection of guests you're going to love. So make sure you follow and subscribe to the brand new Zach Lowe show on Spotify. or wherever you watch or listen to your podcast.

Let's go. To the Ringer NFL show, Shield Capadia here with Stephen Ruiz and Deontay Lee. Owners meetings in Florida have wrapped up. The rule changes. The coach's breakfast. Which coach looked the most hungover at that breakfast? I don't know if these guys will have a take on that GMs talking to the media.

Owners talking to the media. Which, who put a foot in their mouth a little bit at the owner's meetings? because the players are paying close attention, as we will talk about here shortly. So we picked out sort of five storylines, including recapping some of the rule changes that we discussed on our last episode, where all of those left off. And then some kind of the ripple effects from the owners meetings. Will these lead to anything with specific players, specific teams, specific storylines around the NFL? So that's the show today. We'll do that.

And then next week, we will start diving deep into the NFL. draft. Ruiz, how does that sound to you? That sounds good to me. I don't have a guess at the most hungover coach. Just blindly, I didn't look at any of the pictures, but blindly, I'm to go with Mike Frable, I guess. Always a good, that seems like a good choice, Deontay. That's a good one. I'm trying to think, I'm trying to think based on the videos I saw who might be the most

stressed out. The one who's most looking forward to a week to go kind of loosen up a little bit. Now, so I was going to go, I was going to go Kyle Shanahan. He used to be around his old buddies, you know, they can talk about all the fun times that they've had. You can hear about all the great office that his friends had and kind of revel in that. So I'll definitely go with Shanahan. If you're Shaw McVeigh, you know, the Piss Boys are all going to be in the same spot.

Do you bring a ring? You're the only one that has a ring, right? Do you bring it and kind of wear it around town? I would. I would. This is me. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know how often they do wear those rings, but I didn't think about that.

You're right. Yeah, he is the only one. He can hold that. over all of them. It's always hard to gauge because some of them are just used to not sleeping at all. So they always, you know, sort of look tired. Some of them are coming west coast to East Coast. And some of them probably got after it the night before the coach's breakfast.

So you have to take all those factors into account and do your power rankings. Oh, I want to change my answer now. It's Nick Sirion. He did, you know, he was the one I looked at going, is he just not sleeping at all? Or did he have a nice night last time? He always had been a combination of both. He looks like a sleepy guy. I'll say that.

Yeah, I think, and he talks about how much, his lack of sleep during the season and his, and his sleep schedule. But now he can celebrate his Super Bowl and live a little stress-free maybe this off-season. All right. Speaking of Nick Siriani, speaking of the Eagles, the rule changes, we're going to run through these relatively quickly because we did a big, deep dive on these and how we felt about them during the last show. But the tush push was really the story of.

the NFL owners meetings where like if you describe this to somebody who doesn't follow sports, they would just be like, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Like, how are there this many words and this many headlines being written about this? But in our world, it ended up being a pretty big deal and it got tabled until May 20 to May 21st when the owners meet again for another round of meetings next month. So according to ESPN, 16 teams voted for the tush push ban. You need 24 teams to change the rule. So that did not happen. So it sounds like they decided table it, uh, change the language, which it sounds like they might just change the language to it's not just the tush push. It's you cannot push any ball carrier. This is what the rule used to be.

I think it was pre 2004. So it sounds like they're going to say, hey, if we just change the language and make it that so it's not just targeting one team, can we get eight more teams to vote for this later this offseason. So that was the big one. Dr. Allen Sills, the league doctor, said it's not that an injury has occurred. It's that how catastrophic an injury could occur with this play. You know, that was his explanation, even though there has been no injury, and it's been run hundreds of times here.

So he said it's not a matter of if, but when a catastrophic injury occurs. Ruiz, after you saw the hub of a hub of it. about this this week, a month from now. What do you think happens with this rule? Yeah, it's sounding like the momentum is going towards the rule or the Tush Bush getting banned. It sounds like Roger Godell is one of those people that wants to avoid any possible litigation in the future, which, I mean, it's hard to blame them. I guess I buy that explanation a little more, the explanation that it's not about the injuries that have happened. It's about the injury that will inevitably happen. And if that's the case, then sure, fine. I mean, I think we said it on the last pod.

it like represents what, like 0.6% of plays that happens. Yeah, 0.28, I think it was. I'm sure it will affect Eagles fans. I'm sure. And it will just give me Eagles fans another thing to complain about. And that's what more do they love than that? Like if they can go into next season, like, oh, everyone hates us. They try to take away our main play.

They're going to love it. It's going to be like the Patriots after deflategate or the Patriots after their myriad cheating scandals during the Belichick era. So even they'll get something out of this. I would say it would be that. times 100. You know, they've got their, they will have their list of who voted for this, which way did they vote, what comments did they make? And then those will become immediate enemies, Deante, uh, to at Lincoln fight. Not only for like the short term, I'm telling you, there will be generations of just, you know, when the Packers come to, uh, Philadelphia,

like 35 years from now, there will be people being like, remember what they, remember what they did back in 2025. So Ruiz is not wrong about that in terms of, uh, it will fuel some anger. fuel some outrage, which might be necessary among Eagles fans, given that they just won the Super Bowl. Can I say this one thing? I think it is lame that all these coaches are kind of pushing back against the push push and want to get rid of it. And we've seen some of the other coaches who are more neutral be like, we don't want to play football anymore. Like that's the game. But I do think, and I agree with all those people, I do think it's equally lame or maybe a little less lame, but still lame nonetheless, to adamantly want this play. And it'd be like, no, we've got to keep this play. And if we don't have this play,

then you're ruining the integrity of the game. I think either way, if you feel too passionately about it, you're on the wrong side. The right take is, who cares? I think Stephen nailed where I'm at with it. I think the only wrong take is a passionate one. This is not an important enough thing for people to make as big a deal out of it as it is, unless you're an Eagles fan, and we know that they travel well.

So to your point, She'll, I think we're going to get a lot of social media videos of Eagles fans trying to sit behind the opposing team's sideline and trying to point out the GM and owner and giving them a piece of their mind throughout the season. That'll be good. I do think that the fact that this was tabled until May

says that the NFL wants this play out of the game. I think that if it were anything else, they would have just forced, they would have just made the vote be what it was during the owner's meeting. It doesn't get passed. Maybe we come back to this in the 2026 off season. But the fact that it seems like there's a good enough push now

to make this happen, I expect that to be the case. I think that the NFL is in a tricky situation with trying to talk about health concerns. And I think that they've positioned it a little bit better now in terms of we want to protect ourselves from the injury that can happen. Because I don't want to dismiss the fact that people's necks can be exposed taking these hits. And I know that the NFL is in a tough spot because the one thing they can't talk about are all the sub-concussive hits that happen within a yard of the line of scrimmage for offensive and defensive linemen because there's been so much. much litigation about, you know, just the cumulative effects of head-to-head contact for alignment. So I know that they want to be careful about how they construct their talk about injury risk in

that regard. And I think that if you're an Eagles fan and you're looking at this properly, this is now part of the legacy of the last three years, right? It's like this play that really wasn't even that big of a deal. They would have been one of the best QB sneak teams no matter what. But now this play has been branded. It belongs to the Eagles. And it's, now banned as a part of their legacy in winning a Super Bowl or are we expected to be banned at least. And I think that that should be enough to leave all parties happy. The NFL can say we got this play that's not as entertaining for opposing fans out of this game. The injury risk that we've detailed, we've tried to address them.

And Eagles fans can say, you guys are so bad at stopping this play and so bad at adopting this play that you had to outlaw it in order to get in order to get us to stop running it. So I think that's kind of where I'm at with it and anything else after that, I think, is just a little too strong from either side of the aisle. Yeah, I think I can't remember where I read it. I apologize, but I think I read that in 2021, when they ran the QB sneak with Jalen Hertz, without the push, the success rate of that was actually higher than it's been in the three years since then running the, running the push.

And I'm absolutely open to the idea if it's legitimate that, you know, they have done studies and modeling and look at this and say, when an injury occurs, it's going to be really, really bad. And we want to avoid that. I don't want that. You don't want that. No one wants that for a player. It's also difficult for me to square that within what I said on the last pod, which is that,

okay, but you want to have more kickoff returns and the touchback is annoying you so much. Even though the rate came down on that, you are making a role that is most likely going to lead to more total concussions next year. And then it's just the nature of football where it's just like, man, what play is not open to a catastrophic injury in any game in any given Sunday. So it's hard to square the two things. But I think that's why Ruiz is right about the passionate thing. Like, no one would want to come out here and be like, it has to stay in the game. And then we're watching a week six game next year. And we're all going, shoot, man. Look at what happened to player X when they try. No one wants to be in

that position. That would be the worst all takes exposed ever. Like someone, yeah, one thousand percent. Yeah. Yeah. We didn't get to talk about it because it was a blowout. So I didn't. didn't matter. We didn't get many of the plays in the first place. But I was thinking about in the Super Bowl, seeing Chris Jones lined up almost lateral, almost parallel to the line of scrimmage when they ran it. And I was like, you know what? We are now opening the door for defensive players and defensive coaches to get more desperate in their attempts to stop the play. And then that's where I think the door is most open for someone to get hurt, a player being aligned in a way that's a little unnatural and you get rolled up on, right? You don't want to, like I said, you don't

want somebody to take contact to the neck area and be caught at the end of a pile in an awkward position and have their spine, you know, exposed or hurt in any kind of way. There is a pace of play issue, but for more of the defensive perspective, and I think that that's the more, to me, that's the conversation that's maybe not being had. I think it's less about what the offense is doing and more about what the defenses would have to do in order to stop it if you can't do so effectively, just lining up and being stronger at the point of attack. I wouldn't want to see that neither would anybody here, like you said, Shield.

So I think that it's fine. It'll be gone. And in its place, the Eagles are just going to go, no huddle tempo, QB sneak behind, you know, an average 320 pounds of mass across our offensive line

and they're going to convert it at the same rate, if not more than they did, the tush push. And that's going to be most teams, the same with the bills and all these other teams that are able to utilize

their bigger body or their stronger quarterbacks in a sneak situation. We're just going to see that instead. And they're not going to address the QB sneak, because that is like Stephen Dolly says, the original play from scrimmage is everybody lines up close to the ball

and we all shove until the whistle is blown. So I think that this is just not that big of a deal outside of the fact that the team that runs it most effectively or runs it at the highest rate is the team that's been winning a bunch of games over the last three years. Yeah, no, I think that's right. So we'll see what happens in a month. I mean, they still have to get eight more teams on board. That's not nothing.

So it's not a guarantee that it gets banned. but I think your guy's point about it seems pretty clear that the commissioner and the league want this band. And so the politicking behind the scenes you would imagine could lead to that certainly next month. So we'll see what happens there. The other three quick ones here really quickly, the overtime rule, which we discussed, it got changed but not fully changed. So now both teams will have an opportunity to get the football, but overtime stays at 10 minutes. So Ruiz mentioned during the last episode that if I'm a player, I don't want to sign up for a 15 minute overtime where I'm not getting anything out of it.

You're not paying me more to play longer games if they go to overtime. So they actually didn't move it to 15. They kept it at 10 minutes. But whereas last year in the regular season, if you scored a touchdown on your first possession, the game was over. That's not the case anymore. You score a touchdown. The other team gets the ball and you kind of go back and forth there.

So that was one change. Kickoffs, which I just mentioned, they will move touchbacks to the 35. instead of the 30, trying to incentivize more kickoff returns. I made my feelings clear on that during the last episode, so I don't need to get into it. Again, I don't see the point of it, but that's fine. And then the one we all agreed would be a good move, expanded replay assist. That did pass. So now when a flag is thrown and they see clear and obvious video evidence from the replay official,

they can radio down and say, no, no, no, you've been. miss that one, pick up the flag, it's obvious, and they can do that in a timely manner, which they started to do last year. So I think that is a good one. Deante, any thoughts on any of those before we move on to the next topic. The overtime rules, I think, was exactly what, at least the rule change that was made is exactly kind of what I was outlining, right? Like, there's no need to add the additional five minutes to make it a fifth quarter, keep it at 10 minutes, and now you just allow both teams to possess the ball. So if your defense can't get off the field for the first eight minutes of overtime, guess what? It's a two-minute drill for you

to tie up the game. Yeah, I agree. That's what you're working with. You know, to me, that's what's fair. I honestly think that overtime period should probably be about that duration period. I don't know if you need to have a full 15-minute period for that. But yeah, I'm happy with that. And I think that the replay assist is going to work for all the reasons that we detailed in the earlier show. I'm more so surprised that you didn't bring up what I thought was the biggest news in terms of rule changes. And that was using the Hawkeye technology for the change. Yeah, I'm saving that for the next topic, Deante. I separated the rule changes

from the other weird stuff that they changed. We'll get to that. If I know Shield the way, I think I know Shield. I know his take and we have the same one. But yeah, I think that all the rule changes that came out of the owners meetings kind of fit what we were discussing in terms of what needs to be best for what

was on the table. And I think that all of these will help make the current product of the NFL a little bit better. Did you see that Darren Rizzy projected that the return rate will almost double He was predicting 70 to 75%. I just wanted to bring up Darren Rizzy.

Yeah, I was going to say. They're saying that bathroom in the Superdome still isn't the same. Listen, let's just say he has time to think about different mathematical probabilities at a certain time of day, potentially. You know, well, it's not front of mind while he's at his desk, but he's got those opportunities, Ruiz. So I trust the math that Rizzi kind of did there. Yeah, we need the Rizler to be a head coach again. That's all I'm saying.

We need another couple months of the Rizzler. Listen, is it a dumb thing to always remember? Maybe. Am I ever going to think of anything else when I hear Darren Rizzley? Absolutely not. He could go on to the Hall of Fame. He could become a head coach. He could win three Super Bowl.

And I'll go, I knew him way back when he was clogging toilets in his first time, in his first time, coached the game with the New Orleans Saints. Okay, those are the rules changes. Let's take a break. We'll get to what Deonté just hinted at. a little change with spotting the ball and a little scheduling change. All right, we are back on the Ringer NFL show. So this is topic number two, some procedural changes.

And the one Deontay just mentioned, the Hawkeye system, Sony's Hawkeye system. Cameras, not chains, will now determine a first down. Six, 8K cameras placed around every stadium. We'll track the ball and it will be operated from New York where they'll be able to tell, hey, did they get the first down or not? There will not be, I was going to say, men on the sideline. I'm assuming there are women who have been part of the chain gang as well. So people on the sideline as part of the chain gang will not be necessary to actually measure the first down.

Now, refs, this is a key that I wasn't sure about and I had to read up on. Refs still spot the ball. So it's not like all done digitally where they say this is exactly where the ball should be spotted. Rests spot the ball, but according to the reporting, replay assist can confirm the accuracy of the spot. So, Deonti, what do you think about us incorporating some technology to the NFL to determine what is a first down and what is not a first down? I mean, this is so long overdue. This is so long overdue. Like, to me, and this is not even like a conversation like what happens in baseball with the robo-unk, right? Because I do think that

there is an art to calling balls and strikes and having a feel for the game. And sometimes you just got to know that a ball on the corner of the zone sometimes is going to be a strike and sometimes it's not. And you've got to understand the ump that you're dealing with and how they see the pitch. This is not like basketball. We talked about that with the replay assist where, oh, the guy's fingernail is on the ball as somebody is striking his hand and that's far to the ball. So I don't like having those conversations for this.

there is a clearly defined rule of what moves the chains. If you gain more than 9.99 yards, you move the chains. I don't need a ref pulling out the index card. I don't need all the time spent on, oh, well, if the ball is spotted here, then it might be a quarter of a yard too short of the line to gain. Let's use the technology that's available. I think that my biggest takeaway, though, aside from the technology, is that now working the chain group might be the most valuable job

outside of the people who are actually on the field. Like I can't imagine if I was on LinkedIn, if I was on Indeed, I don't want to do the big office stuff in the corporate office. I want to work on the chain crew where I just get to hold the thing. Yeah, I just get to hold the thing. I get paid, you know, and I don't have to worry about the actual outcome of the game relying on my spot. Like I'm sure there is somebody who works in the NFL right now that was maybe thinking about retiring early. And then this rule change came down, they might be able to squeeze another five years on that 401K, man. You know, I want to think that that's the most important thing to.

come out of this. Yeah. No, that's a great point. Yeah, not a bad gig, Ruiz. I'm kind of against this. Okay. I don't. Like, it's not really improving on anything. Like, the chain was fine, and then it added the drama, and there was, I don't know, like, the

tradition of them bringing out the chains. If you're not spotting the ball with this Hawkeye technology, then I don't care. I do think that there's a conversation to be had about half measures, again, with the NFL, because they're just afraid of the entertainment, of people complaining about the product on TV because things are being changed too quickly.

I don't understand why you would measure whether or not somebody reached the line to gain and not use the cameras to spot where the line actually is that the ball needs to be on. Yeah, and the other part of this is if you think this is going to stop fans from claiming the league is rigged or that the rest cheat it, when we don't actually see the first down getting measured like we do with the chain, that's just going to open them up to more scrutiny, in my opinion. So I think you're just going to hear louder cries about first downs being called when they shouldn't have been called, or our teams getting awarded first downs when they shouldn't have gotten them. So I don't know if this actually helps in the long run.

Until we get, we have chips in the ball already. And I know that it's complicated because you don't know the orientation of the ball when the runner goes down. But there's got to be a way to figure this out. See, I can tell, I'm with you, Roos, because I could tell, I know exactly where your head was going when you were making that argument because I was just, this happens every year where someone will make a comment online about, you know, the NFL is worth, let me see here. I just Googled it, estimated to be around $163 billion.

So someone will make the comment. The league's worth $163 billion. And they got these people on the sideline just trying to figure out what a first down is and spot the ball on punts. And then someone else will invariably chime in and go, it's more complicated than that. Someone's smart. They're always smart people making the argument that, no, no, like it's hard. It's harder than you think it is. And I'm with you.

can we can figure it out listen we can figure it out you know i visited nassah last month the stuff they're doing if they can figure out the things they are doing i believe that there is someone smart enough out there to upgrade the technology in the nfl so that we can know exactly where the ball should be spotted exactly when a knee or an elbow or a shin hit the ground all those things and we can be precise with this and it can make games go quicker and it can leave nothing to chance with somebody on the sideline trying to look and figure it out all those things so i'm with you so you don't need to send me the articles you know about well it's harder than you think i i've seen all those articles i understand i still believe in the human race and the power we have to

solve some of these some of these issues so that's where i'm at dionte i appreciate your guys as internal optimism. I don't like a fit. I don't like officials enough. It may not be easy right now. This all sounds like guys who have not been on the sideline during the game as a coach watching these people. You know how many times I have had to look adult in the face and say, you put this spot

at the five yard mark. That denotes this. You pull the chain all the way to the end. And I'm not saying that the NFL has that level of incompetence. But I think that every time I think about the chain gang and the way the things, get measured, all I can think of is the incompetence of the people who have these positions. And I think it's okay to use a little bit of, a little bit of technology to just augment some of the ways that they can have blind spots.

But I want all of them. Either no refs or robot. Like, I don't want both. I don't want half measures, like we said. I don't want Hawkeye technology in one realm of measuring first downs and then no. And then we have like the old school eyeing off 10 yards and old men like deciding where the ball was spotted. That's the biggest problem to me is when you see these spots.

Like you watch it on television and you're like, all right, that's like three yards off. That's like two yards off. That's the problem. It's not like the measuring. I never see the measure with the chain. And I'm like, oh, that measurement's off. Like they said it was a first down when it really wasn't. So I don't know.

I think they're tackling the wrong problem here. They're not tackling something that wasn't a problem at all. The measurement is not the issue. You're right. I mean, you are right about this. The measurement is not the issue because you go and you stand exactly where the ball is spotted, one person, and then the other person is 10 yards away.

I assume somebody is measuring the chains at the time. And so that part should not be hard. The hard part is actually spotting the ball, and that doesn't change here. Although there was a throwaway line, again, in there that said replay assist will confirm the accuracy of the spot. So that's something to keep an eye on.

Maybe that will be a bigger part of it than we think it's going to be, but they didn't want to make that the headline because they're not confident in it. right now. But yes, eventually that's where we've got to get to one way or another with the smart people that we have in the world, you know, figuring these very important problems about how to spot a football in an NFL. The Darren Rizzies of the world, if you will. The Daron Rizzies of the world. That's right. Who can who can be the Jaron Rizzi of NFL technology? That's what we're

looking for. If your student out there, that's what we're looking for here. I think our procedures have been plenty clogged in football. I mean, I really think that like 20 years from now, the, the, we're going to look back at like this and be like, that's how they did it in 2025. It's got, I know it's very slow, but at some point, there just has to be massive technology upgrades with some of this stuff. And maybe this is the first step towards that. So let's see how it goes. It can't hurt anything. I think Ruiz is probably right to be a little skeptical that it's going to make a significant impact here, given that it feels like a little bit of a half measure. Okay. So that's one. The second one is the Thursday night flex.

change. So the window for notifying teams, this applies to weeks 13 to 17, there had been a window where you have to notify them 28 days in advance if you want to change a Thursday night game to a Sunday night game and move a Sunday night or a Sunday game and move a Sunday game to a Thursday night game. They've only used it once over the last two seasons. There's only been one flex. Now they have changed the notification period to just 21 days. So they cut a week off of that saying we can tell you 21 days away from your game whether we're going to move it to a Thursday night. Ruiz, do you have any feelings about this or does this land in the who cares category of the tush push for you? No, this is insane. This is insane that they could talk about

the concerns about player health in all different realms, including the tush push, including the head safety, the rule changes that have been put in to protect players from taking on unnecessary contact to the head. And then they do this. Three weeks is insane to me. And I think it's not only about the players. It's also about the fans who buy tickets and plan this stuff out. Some of them are traveling into the city. And then from what I read last year, when the Broncos' charge game was moved,

I think it was week 16. It was moved up from Sunday afternoon to Thursday afternoon. First of all, that changes everything if you have tickets to that game. From what I read, they didn't give out refunds or issue any type of compensation because of that, which to me is just insane and insane effie to the first. fans that you claim to be putting the schedule together for. I think it's just another blatant money grab by the league, just being able to drive up their ratings late in the season. So when it comes time to renegotiate television rights deals, they can be like, look, look how our Thursday night program is performing late in the season.

It's bad, in my opinion. It's just another, I don't know how this stuff isn't collectively bargained. Yeah, there's a hubris to it where it's clear, like, not that. I feel like nothing they do caters to the fans actually going to the game because they know fans are going to fill that stadium one way or another. And that is such a fraction of the, you know, people who are going to be consuming the game. Deonti, what I don't get is that if we've learned anything about the NFL, it is that people will watch the crappiest matchup on the schedule, regardless of who's playing, which quarterbacks are out, what the stakes are, whether a team's tanking. whether it's on Sunday morning at 6 a.m. Whether it's on Monday night at 10 p.m. Eastern Monday,

I don't understand. Like, I would like to see, and maybe I'm wrong, I would like to see the range of ratings for a Thursday night game. Like, a bad, guess what? A bad game in December on Thursday night, people are still going to gamble on it. People are still going to have fantasy people on it. People are still going to do daily fantasy.

And people are just going to say, This is even the worst game is going to be a better entertainment product than my other options right now when I want to relax after a day of work and sit on the couch and watch something. And I'm going to watch this. Anyway, so I don't understand the need. Like, again, this is this is the same thing I said with the kickoff. Some of the motivations, and I'm sure it's financially motivated. I'll always follow the money. I get that. It's hard for me to understand, though. Like, is it really going to make that much of a difference if you show a crappy game for like one, one? week in mid-December on a Thursday night? I think the answer to that is no. I'm sitting here looking at Kevin Sefer's reporting from ESPN on this, right? And he has the NFL executive vice president saying that the change is here to give the league a better opportunity to make timely decisions on potential flex games. What does that sound like? That sounds like we want to know when we can get the most eyeballs on these weekday games. And to me, this has nothing to do with the current slate. I don't think that this is going to be utilized in 2025 and 2026. What I think that this is

for is the slow creep toward adding the 18th game, having an NFL broadcast on Friday nights or on other weekdays, having an NFL broadcast on Saturdays. So they can dominate everything from Thursday through Monday and they are going to have a tighter window now where they can really play the matchmaking for these prime time slots. That's what I think that this is ultimately about, I would not be surprised at all if we don't really even speak about this this often over the next couple of seasons. But as they continue to negotiate for future CBAs and the 18th game, I think, becomes a bigger sticking point in these negotiations. I think that anything we hear about scheduling between now in 2027, 2028, that range of years, I think is all going to be

the march towards the 18th game in the regular season. So I looked it up in that Broncos Chargers game that got flood. It had an average of 11.03 million viewers. That's up from 8% from the previous year. But overall, on the season, Thursday night football was up 11% from the previous year. And this was the second lowest, second smallest audience that a Thursday night football game got last year. So then flexed, it didn't really improve viewership last year. Interesting.

So they picked the game. They thought it was going to get a higher viewership. And it didn't, it got below average for a Thursday night game. Yeah. And the lowest ratings were. another Broncos game. So maybe it's a Bowdox problem. I'm telling you to me, this, you know who this is going to benefit?

Netflix. This is going to benefit all the streamers that are going to continue to fight for regular season, regular season rights. And now the NFL is going to have more mechanisms now to say, hey, we want to drop the Ravens in on the Netflix Saturday game or the Netflix

Friday game. We want to drop the chiefs into some of these slots. So again, I would just be, if I'm a fan, I would be a little bit, I want to be hyper aware about what they start talking about with the weekday scheduling as the years go forward. You kind of saw that last year because the good teams really kind of got screwed with the flex scheduling. Like the Chiefs ended up having to play, I think it was like four games and it's like three or four

games in 18 days. And I remember Patrick Mahomes complaining about the Ravens. Yeah, the Ravens were in a similar situation because they were on the Christmas game. So yeah, you're kind of screwing over some of your better team. So maybe you get some eyeballs, more eyeballs on those teams in week 16, week 17, but maybe they're worse off for January and you're not getting marquey matchups later in January, which is where you really get your viewers. Yeah, I like Deontes' point that maybe it is just kind of laying the groundwork to have that flexibility as they open more windows.

I like that Deontay didn't mention, you know, it was cute. You didn't mention Tuesday or Wednesday, Deontay, don't, you know. Oh, those are coming. Yeah, you forgot two days a week. I'm just saying those are coming as well. So we'll see what happens to this. Again, it's not like it's something that's going to theoretically happen a lot. It is just an option now for the NFL here to move forward to change those games.

And Ruiz's point about the fans should not be forgotten. I mean, we've all been to NFL stadiums and you talk to friends and fans and you plan road trips. You plan flights around these things. You plan events around these things. And now three weeks before you. potentially are flying to a city to see a game where you've spent literally thousands of dollars when you go airfare, hotel tickets. I mean, we are talking thousands of dollars. They can just pull the rug out from under you and say, sorry, that game's going to be on a Thursday this week.

And to Ruiz's point, you have no recourse. I mean, I really think there, if they were worried about doing the right thing to the paying customers, it should be pretty easy to offer some kind of, hey, we know we're doing this at the last minute, whether it's a credit or a refund or something, we know they don't care about that. Come on. If you went to the league office and said the word restitution, I think that security would come boot you out of there. I wouldn't even make it inside the door. Yeah, I understand that.

We're talking about a perfect world. Maybe that's like a May or June episode. The NFL in a perfect world. Yeah. You know, there are some of these things they could do to help out their fans. All right. Those were the procedural changes. Now we get to some team player stuff.

We go to Cincinnati, which has been in the news a lot this offseason. They signed Jamar Chase. They signed T. Higgins. But now we got a T. Hendrickson standoff. All right. So what happened here? Let me give a little recap. You guys can fill in anything that I miss.

But it's no secret. Trey Hendrickson wants an extension. He's got one more year left on his deal. He's entering his age 31 season. He's coming off a phenomenal 2024 season. But Bengals Executive Vice President, Katie Blackburn, and this is via ESPN.com, was asked about Trey Hendrickson at the owner's meetings and said, I think he should be happy at certain rates that maybe he doesn't think he'd be happy at. I think some of it is on him to be happy at some point.

And if he's not, you know, that's what holds it up sometimes. So, you know, it takes him to say yes to something. and also we have all the respect in the world for him. She did say some nice things about him afterwards, but that, you know, justifiably irked Trey Hendrickson, who he and his agent said, hey, let's do some media after this. We don't like this. And they get, Trey Hendricksson goes on the Pat McAfee show the next day,

I believe it was and calls the communication from the team poor, says the team has not communicated with his agent directly, says he doesn't want to deal with. incentives that are out of his control and that he doesn't want a short-term extension. So Hendrickson was irked by the comments. The comments were the comments. As of this podcast, Trey Hendrickson is still on the Cincinnati Bengals, but this is something that either gets resolved or doesn't get resolved, I guess, between now and week one.

Ruiz, what is your stance here on how this played out, how it might continue to play out in the future, and sort of what you would advise the Bengals to do if they called you up and said, all right, we might have, you know, done, created an issue unnecessarily. How do we fix this thing? I thought the comments from Blackburn, especially the ones about his happiness and him being, he thinks he'll be happy if he's getting this much money,

but he might be a little happier if he gets less money. That's just insane. She should have quoted a moment more problems or something. Yeah, she was. Yeah, but I kind of understand the hesitance to give him what he wants and give him a long-term deal. I think that's the main sticking point here is that the Bengals want him on a short term deal. He is on the wrong side of 30, and I understand that. He's also not a player that

necessarily affects the game on all three downs. Like, he can close out a must-pass situation with the sack, but he doesn't always get you to that situation with, like, early-down run defense. I think that's where, like, the shorter arms kind of come to play with him is on early downs and against the run, not necessarily as a pass-rrusher. So I kind of get that from their perspective. You don't want to pay Miles Garrett money. I don't think it would be Miles Garrett money, but you don't want to pay like $30 million a year for a guy who is really an all-pro or that type of player on one down or in one certain situation. And he's over the age of 30. So I get it from their perspective. I think this discourse that we're getting through the media is kind of is bad.

And I'd be pissed if I was Trey Hendrickson and they were trying to put it out there like this. Like they weren't making you, I think third on the list of priorities this season with Chase and Higgins, obviously. That sounds like where some of the frustration is coming from. But I'm, like, I was confident that the Higgins deal would get done and the Chase deal would get done. At this point, I'm not so confident that something's going to get done with Hendrickson. What do you think, Deontay? I mean, when I was looking at Blackmerst comments, it was like, what are you doing? What are you doing? What does it serve? Like, to what end do these comments serve?

And to me, like, not only would I be offended if I were Trey Hendrickson, this is also not a happiness conversation at all. If you want me short term, pay me $35 million. If you don't want to put $35 million and guaranteed money while I'm 32 or 33 years old, then extend the years. And you're going to have to deal with some of the cap casualty stuff that comes with that, tacking on void years at the end of my deal to take me until I'm 35, 36 years old and I will retire here. That's the conversation. This is very easy. This is not a prime. This is not a guy in his prime, right?

He's not 27. He's not 28. I don't think Tray Hendrickson's asking price is going to be at the level of Miles Garrett. I think that he's wise enough to know the team that he's dealing with. Otherwise, he would have found a trade partner that would have paid him maybe a little bit less than whatever a sticker price would be. And the Bengals could get some draft capital back and then he could go get a longer term deal elsewhere. The fact that he wants to stay here means that he's trying to negotiate in good faith. I'm assuming, right?

And we're coming to this with some incomplete information in terms of what the negotiations might have been. But this is simple because it was simple with T. Higgins as well. Pay up early. And now you can get some terms that work for the team. And if you don't want to pay up early, extend the years so that I make sure that I have some security and you're going to have to deal with the cap ramifications that come from that.

Either way, if I'm Hendrickson now, this tells me I'm not going to be there at OTAs. I'm not going to be there at the start of training camp. I'm not showing up until you get this number right or you trade me. It's one of the two, really. I don't know what else there is to say in this conversation if we're not going to have a negotiation at what his worth would be given the fact that he has produced 35 sacks in the last two years. And this is not me saying that Trey Hendrickson is the top five edge rusher.

It's just saying if you produce like this on a team that has playoff aspirations, there's a tax that comes with that. And you've got to pay the tax if you want to keep your good players. That's where it sounds like Hendrickson has hurt the most about this. It sounds like he's actually hurt by this. Like he thought if he just came in, like, because he's been trying to look,

he's been looking for a new deal for the past couple years. And he comes in, he gives you 17 and a half sacks two years in a row. And it sounds like he's saying, like that was kind of what they laid out, the parameters they laid out for him to get a new deal. It's like coming in and play well, and then we'll give you a new deal.

And then he came in and played well. And then the fact that he's still on the wrong side of 30 comes in. And the Bengals are like, oh, we're still not going to pay you. And this wasn't the team. that drafted him. This was the team that courted him in free agency, gave him a bunch of money. I guess they probably didn't make any promises about him being a bangle for life at the time.

I don't know what their pitch was, but it sounds like Hendrickson wants to be there. I will say this. I do get like not wanting to jump into a long-term deal with a player like this. But if you are, if you do fancy yourself a Super Bowl contender, you need an edge researcher like this in the playoffs. we've seen that time and time again if you have a dominant edge rusher are two edge rushers that can kind of produce that in the aggregate then you can go far away in the playoffs

and if they don't have Hendrickson what do they have on defense? It's kind of tough from their perspective in that regard that they don't have a lot on defense and they're playing hardball with the one guy that they can kind of pencil in for the next two years maybe as a top level player. Yeah, I think contract-wise

the comp here is DeNeil Hunter who is also entering his age 31 season and the Texans gave him a one-year extension for $35.6 million and gave him a raise from $19 million to $32 million in 2024. So they,

I'm sure the Bengals looked at that and are like, why did you guys do? I'm sure they're crazy looking at that. Why'd you guys do that? You know, he's 31. Don't be doing that. But they did it.

The team gives out a contract. Yeah. Yeah. So that, if you're Hendrick's in, you say, wait a minute, I have been as productive, if not more productive than him. We're at the same age.

That's the agreement I'm looking for here. And I don't know, like you said, we're at an information shortage. I'm with you, Ruiz, though, just listening or reading Hendrickson's comments. And you'd said it, Deontay, like it does seem like his ideal scenario is to stay in Cincinnati on a contract that seems fair, not necessarily one that is like above and beyond, but just he wants something. which if you're a Bengals fan, that should leave you thinking like, all right, maybe there is, this is just something that's happening in April, but there's room there to get something done

where both sides give in a little bit. So I think that would be the type of deal that if you're the Bengals, you say, if you want to keep Hendrickson, you say, this is what we're willing to do. I think Ruiz is right too. You know, it's like you're 31 years old. And do I want to do this deal when I just, I paid T. Higgins. I paid Jamar Chase. I'm paying Joe Burrow. My defense needs a lot of work, do I want to tie that kind of money into Trey Hendrickson right now as well? Now, Hendrickson, last year, first in sacks, first in pressures, first in quick pressures. So like Ruiz said, this is a skill set that is coveted by not just should not just the Bengals, but really by every contending team that this is a useful player, an impactful player on the downs that matter

the most. So I do think it's a tough decision. I was looking at some trade comparisons here, wondering, hey, if this is actually reaching a point where these guys are not on the same page, what could the Bengals get for him? And that's tough too, because as we've seen with some of these guys, when a team has to not only trade, give up something for the player, but they know they have to pay the player, the market isn't always what you would expect the market to be. And so, the commanders got a second for Montez Sweat a couple years ago. Now, that was a situation where Montes Sweat was 27 years old. The Giants got a second. for Brian Burns, but he's 26 years old.

This is a 31 year old player who you're going to have to pay. So I was having a hard time. I was looking at some teams. You guys tell me what you think about some of this stuff. But, you know, if you're a team like the Patriots, would you be interested? If you're a team like the bills, would you be interested? The lions, I feel like are always a team that comes up when you say add a little bit more pass rush. The 49ers, do you say, like,

Let's pair him on the other side of Nick Bosa, and we feel like we can rebound in a big way here. We've got 11 picks. Those are some of the teams that I came up with. And in terms of compensation, is it something like, hey, let's look a year out and say a 2026 second round pick? Would any team, if you're the 49ers, would you be willing to give that up?

Would you be willing to give up a third and a fifth this year for Trey Hendrickson and then pay him? Deonti, I don't know. Do any of those teams interest you? think there's a deal out there to be done for Trey Hendricks in here, either before the draft or even after the draft. I think as we walk closer to the draft, that compensation is probably closer to the latter deal that you put on the table, right? A pick somewhere between 75 and 100 plus maybe a late day three pick, you know, something in that 150 to 200 range probably gets that deal done.

And if I'm a contending team, like you said, if you're the Lions, if you're the 49ers, if you're a team that's thinking, hey, one more piece, if you're the Packers and you're thinking, hey, a piece like this might take us from being an interesting team in the NFC to maybe being, having just enough firepower to give us a puncher's chance against the Eagles. You know, if they continue to be at the top of the conference, then that's worth it. I think if you're Trey Hendrickson, and this is where it gets tricky, right, because you are on the wrong side of 30. You've got to start thinking about timeline. You do want to land at a place like that. And I think that his priority should be more, let me get to a place where I can win.

in, see if I can cash in, like you said, very similar to DeNeil Hunter, where I can get maybe $28, $29 million because I will be going to a new team in that instance. And maybe they're not paying me right at the same market rate as the guy that's at my position in a similar spot in terms of the age curve to me. I think that that's probably the happiest ending for these guys. Because if I'm looking at Katie Blackburn's comments, that to me does not sound like somebody who is operating with the, with the assumption with the understanding that we're going to to give you what you want eventually, right? I think we'll get to the Cowboys and Michael Parsons eventually. That conversation is more like, Micah's going to get what he wants. And maybe

Jerry Jones has to pay the price for that. This to me does not sound like we're going to give Train Hendrickson what he wants eventually. It's just us ironing out the details. And if that's the case, and they should have done what we said they should have done in January and February, which is pay your receivers and get some additional draft capital as early as possible. And now you're on the wrong side of free agency and teams will start to fill in and addressing needs you're not going to get the same kind of premium that you might have in February and March. I think even the subcontender, like a team that wants to take a step up towards playoff contention, like a team like the Jaguars would be smart to-

I'm looking at the Jags as well. To trade that like a couple day-two picks for Henderson. The Bears are another one. I wonder if the Bengals would hesitate to trade him within the conference just because, especially to a contender that they think they're going to go up against. But a team like the Jaguars, they might be able to get the best. of both worlds where maybe Hendrickson does take a shorter-term deal because he is from Florida. And one of the big concerns was he says this directly. Like, I want to be able to tell my wife

where we're going to be living for the next couple of years. Maybe the Jaguars do get a hometown discount on the contract and they would be more inclined to give up a little more draft capital because of it. But it sounds like the Bengals have like their plates full. They have apparently negotiations going on with the stadium. And Blackburn was talking about possibly just picking up and going somewhere else after 2025. They can't. can't get a deal done. I don't even know if Hendrickson is high up on their list of concerns right now. I think once they got the Higgins and Chase deal deals done, they're kind of like, well, if we lose them, we lose them, but we're fine with that. Yeah, you mentioned two day three picks.

I mean, I would, I would consider, I would be inclined to consider that if I were the Bengals. If you don't think you're going to be able to come to a contract resolution and I can get two top 100 picks and then I'm getting off of his money and I'm trying to figure out how do we rebuild this defense as we talked about in a previous show to a level of competency. We're not talking top 10 here. We're talking about one that can give our offense a chance. They made that decision when they brought back T. Higgins, what kind of team they're going to be. The offense is going to carry the team and the defense be good enough to give us a chance. You know, there is a scenario where you spread some of those resources out a little bit and you become a more well-rounded defense.

Now, that's easy for me to say. If I'm a defensive coordinator, give me the guy who just had 17 and a half sacks last year. I don't want to lose that guy, but that could be a line of thinking for the, for the Bengals. So we'll see what they do. DeAte, your point made me remember like, these teams should go back and look at Pete Carroll. It was my, I just got to Seattle to cover the Seahawks. And the big story in the summer 2015 was Cam Chancellor holding out. And Pete Carroll put on a clinic on how to handle these things.

Like any question was just, we love Cam, Cam's a leader. Cam's going to be involved. Cam's the heartbeat of this team. We're going to figure it out. We need Cam. I remember I even tried to, you know, I just got there trying to press him a little bit. He's like, you can ask me as much as you want. I'm not going to say anything else about it.

He's like, who's this new guy who keeps asking me about Cam Chancer, but it's like, it's not that hard. It's not difficult. Compliment the player. If it's a good player, just compliment the, we hope to figure something out. You know, we're not going to negotiate through the media. He's a great player. He's been a big part of our success.

And we'll see where it goes. but, you know, we value that guy. That's it. Not only that, the best way to make Tray Hendrickson feel good to say like, hey, we recognize guys like Jesse Bates, our other veterans that have walked out, Chidovia, guys from the defense that got us to the Super Bowl have left because we've had to prioritize other things. Trey Hendrickson is our bedrock. We did that understanding that our bedrock is this guy who has been productive, no matter what we've put around them. We know the defense hasn't looked the way we wanted it to, but that is never wavered in his production and how he approaches

every day. This is our star guy. We're going to make sure no matter what that our star defensive player feels like a star defensive player for as long as he's wearing our helmet, boom, it's done. That's what you have to say. Nobody, nobody even cares about what the particulars of this conversation is. Anderson's not going on McAfee. I mean, honestly, it was self-inflicted, all this. Exactly.

It does not have to be this way. It just doesn't have to be this way. All right. So we'll see what happens there. All right, let's take a break. We come back. Talk about another past rusher, another league executive who is prone to saying some things when we come back on the Ringer NFL show. All right, we are back topic number four.

Jerry Jones, Micah Parsons, does it matter at all? Or is this just kind of standard operating procedure with the Dallas Cowboys? All right. So what happened here? Jerry Jones has asked about Micah Parsons at the owner's meetings. He says, yeah, I've had a lot of conversations with Micah, but he says not with Micah's agent, who is a very powerful agent, Deshawn Watson's agent, Malageta and Jones says he doesn't know Mulligeta's name. Now, that ends up annoying. Micah Parsons, who then takes to Twitter and tweets about it and says, no deal will get done without his agent.

There will be no kind of back, you know, backdoor talks about just me and Jerry hammering out the details here. That's why I hire an agent because I want an expert. So there's that. Jerry Jones, here are the quotes from The Athletic. I don't view it as urgent at all, using the basis that the earlier you get something done, the cheaper or the earlier you get something done a lot of times they don't want to stay cheap. You might want to see a few more cards played, not with just that particular negotiation,

but with the whole team. I know I'm kind of being a little defensive here, but the idea that the only success is getting a contract done at an early time is incorrect. I'd rather pay more and get it right than have paid less and screwed it up. You can screw it up pretty good. You can go too early and misread the athletic ability. You can misread availability for the future. So that's what Jerry Jones said.

He also said, this is a great quote. I'll get us. And he knows how to get himself in the headlines. I have a lot of confidence in managing money, Jones said. And I have a lot of confidence in looking around the corner, getting a feel for where the revenue is going to be or not be. And then last one I'll give you guys. I've never had anything I wanted that I couldn't get ever.

I'll figure out a way to which, as we say in the Capati household, MBN, which stands for Must be nice. Must be nice. Jerry. So there you guys. I know something he hasn't been able to get no matter how much he wants it. I thought to see an NFC title game appearance for one. 29 years, Jerry.

Playoff wins, period, before we even get to NFC title games. I want to know what, I want to know what happened to, Jerry when he was a young businessman that made him act the way that he acts. Because his attempts to avoid playing his cards early have gotten him into a lot of trouble and have cost him a lot of money over the past couple of years. I don't know how he still considers himself some like shrewd negotiator with these players who have taken him to town. Like, Ezekiel Elliott won.

Dak Prescott won. Michael Parsons is going to win. He's going to get whatever he wants. and this idea where waiting longer to do the deal gives you more information. What more information do you need? It's Michael Parsons. There's been a report that they made him an offer

to be the highest paid non-quarterback in the NFL, beating out Garrett's $40 million a year. So if that's already on the table, what more do you have to wait? You've already decided that this guy is perhaps the best defensive player in the NFL is what's going to change your mind over the next couple months

or over the next year that's going to persuade you to not give him this money. It's just another example of him overthinking, taking too much time, and ending up missing the market and overpaying a guy that he could have gotten for much cheaper if he got a deal done earlier. Is it just marketing and promotion, though, Deonti? Is it just, hey, let's get this in the headlines. We'll string it out until the summer. Yeah, we'll pay a few million more, but what's the big deal? This is all part of the Dallas Cowboys and how we operate.

And we're going to be talked about on first take and on the ringer. NFL show, which we're doing right now for months to come. And this will be a big story in the slow time of the NFL calendar. Like I just do wonder how much of it is that. And he's like, all right, we might pay, you know, two or three million dollars more per year than we would have if we did it earlier. That, you know, that type of promotion is worth that much money. I think that that's a rosy way of looking at it, but I don't think it's wrong, right? I don't think it's wrong. I do think that's marketing and promotion because there was nothing there that hints that he doesn't know who Michael Parsons is.

I'm rolling my eyes as you're reading the quotes because I'm like, this sounds like he thinks that he's a genius and that we are all idiots. And I'm not like, I have eyes. I know that the problem here is not trying to project who Michael Parsons is going to be because you've known who he was since day one. It's very obvious. You're not waiting here. This isn't the oil business or you're speculating on what's going to be where.

Like, I don't understand why you're talking this way. And to me, I think maybe the funniest part of it is the David Mulligeta. thing because I'm just playing it out in my head. Sheel, I'm Jerry Jones. I call you your Michael Parsons and I ask you what you want. This is a short conversation, right? Yeah. Steve, what's your number if you're Michael Parsons?

Forty-one, $40.5 million per year. 41 million per year. What about you, Sheel? 43. Let's go 43. Jerry Jones calls me, I'm Michael Parsons and asks what I want. 42 million dollars. Have a great night, Jerry.

Hang up the phone. Yeah. If you want to talk about the particulars, then you go call my agent. There's nothing else to talk about. about, right? Like, this is like the NBA with max contracts where, you know, the team doesn't even have to talk to the player all that much. It's just, is it four years? Is it five years? It's going to be the same conversation here with Michael Parsons, right? Do you want it shorter where you can get back

on the market earlier or do you want it longer? And now maybe we put a little bit more on front and now you've got to do a more team friendly stuff on the back end. And to me, if you're the Cowboys, if you're Jerry Jones, not only do you lose these negotiations, you get panced in these negotiations. Dak Prescott's representation dominated that negotiation. He got everything that he could have asked for. He's still the highest paid quarterback in the NFL by five million a year. Highest paid player in NFL history. And he got hurt. So Jerry was unable to anticipate the availability aspect, but he claims he can he can peek around the corner and see. He can't get tagged. If he's traded, it's extremely punitive on the Cowboys. Like there's no, there's never been a negotiation. There hasn't been a negotiation in the last

half decade, at least where you walked away from it feeling like, oh, man, the Cowboys paid the guy that they wanted to pay and they maintained enough flexibility to continue adding pieces around these guys. That's not the way they operate. And it's fine. I mean, hey, as an Eagles fan, is this what you want to do? Go ahead and pay top sticker price at all times and give up all the terms and just watch, you know, the depth on your team continue to whittle away. I just don't understand if you're Jerry Jones, how you could possibly believe that this is the best operating procedures. outside of everybody just wants to hear what I have to say, and I'm just going to say whatever,

because I know I'm paying all my cool players, and these are all my toys, and I just get to do what I please. That's what he's doing, I think. I think he doesn't want to be like the chain game, the new chain game that doesn't have to do anything. He doesn't want to just be there standing there and being like, okay, yeah, I'm the one that signs the check.

If he can't put his business acumen to use, then what's the point of him being there? He's not the guy picking the players any longer. Yeah. That's all he could do is negotiating. these contracts and try to get one up on the player. And all of his attempts, though, they always fail because there's a market dictating these prices. Like, you don't get to individually decide how much you're going to pay Michael Parsons. The Browns indirectly decided how much you were going to pay

Michael Parsons. And the market is always going to do that. So I think it's just him trying to hold on to any control that he has over how the team is built and what it looks like and try to get any credit for their success if it comes eventually. That's the thing. There's no scenario. here, in my opinion, that they're going to come to an agreement on a long-term deal between now and week one. That is 99% how this is going to end. I really can't imagine a scenario where it doesn't end that way. And to Deontes' point, we could probably get pretty close to the terms now. Jamar Chase is the highest paid non-quarterback in the NFL at 40.25 million. Micah Parsons is next up. He's going to make more than that. How much more of it is than 40.25 million?

is it 41, is it 42, is it 43? That's what we're talking about here, honestly, probably between two to four million dollars, which is, which is nothing when you're talking about a player of this caliber. And then obviously the guarantee structure and all that. So it is not a hard negotiation. So maybe Ruiz is right. He wants to feel like, hey, I'm massaging this relationship. You know, we're still a family run business. And I'm talking to the star player who's going to be great for us and one of the faces of our team. And, you know, I just want to feel. some value with what I'm doing now rather than just, hey, somebody else handle this, tell me what it costs, and I'll sign the check. Maybe that's all it is. I think the marketing

thing is certainly a part of this as well. This is somebody who loves holding court at a place like the owner's meetings where you go to these events, you know, some owners are avoiding you and running through the hallways and saying, don't follow me and hey, we'll do it tomorrow. And you never get, that's not Jerry Jones. Hey, all right, everybody. Yeah, we'll do it over here. Hey, did we miss anybody? You know, you want a minute over here. Yep, come, you know, grab your camera, grab your microphone. Let's chat about any and all topics right now.

So that's a part of it too, his personality, the way he operates the team. So I don't know. Sometimes, yeah, I'm with Yante. Sometimes I feel like a sucker for even mentioning this on, hey, should we talk about this today? Because I just feel like there's no scenario where this doesn't get done. At the same time, it does continue to be a bit confounding the way Jerry Jones handled. some of this stuff with his star players. I mean, it always gets done.

He's not wrong. It's not like Dak Prescott or CD-Lam left or anything. He's not losing players that he wants to keep. Going back to Zach Martin, wanting to restruct it. It always gets done eventually, but there's always a bit of a song and dance before it gets done. And then when you look at it at the end,

you don't look at it and say, you gained anything from this. When you just go to the over-the-cat page of what the contract looks like, the player gained something from this. You didn't gain anything from this. So maybe he looks at it and says, hey, my players are going to get paid a little more. They're going to be a little bit happier. That's going to lead to a good culture at the same time to Ruiz's point.

It's been 29 years since you've gotten out of the second round of the playoffs. So I don't know that that's giving you the edge that you think it's giving you. So congratulations in advance to Michael Parsons because he's going to end up getting like 80% of his contract value guaranteed because David Mulugette is going to take him to the cleaners. And, I mean, if there's someone you don't want to do this with, you know, Micah Parsons might be the most online superstar. in the NFL. He's the last guy who wants to be reading these quotes,

being like, what you don't know my agent's name? What are you talking about? Type thing, but that's okay. It'll get done. You could tell that

Mulugeta has no concern whatsoever about this either because they were at, he was asked about it. He's like, yeah, whatever, I don't care.

I just care. Like, whatever Michael wants is what Michael gets. He's not threatened in any way, shape, or form by Jones's posturing.

Yeah, no doubt about it. All right, last topic here, the old man quarterback's. Now, listen, we swore a moratorium on Aaron Rogers until he signs. You guys tell me, what do we want? Is there a special format we want to do? Do we not want to discuss it?

Do you want me to just mention the highlights and you each give 10 seconds on it? Because I don't want to speak for the group here. We're kicking around ideas. And Roger's name is certainly in the headlines. But we have the ability. We're like Jerry Jones with the Cowboys. We have the ability to determine how much we want to discuss this. how we want to discuss this, Ruiz.

What do you think? Can we take the Bill Parcell's approach and just refer to him as the player? The player, okay? So we'll talk about it, but we will refer to Aaron Rogers as the player. That seems good, Deontag. Go to a little middle ground here. I can do that. Okay.

Let me see. Let me make sure I don't. Screw it up. So we're going to talk about the player. Per the athletic, the Pittsburgh Steelers were first interested in Matthew Stafford, didn't work out, turned their attention to Justin Field, didn't work out, came down to Russell Wilson and the player. They brought the player in.

They didn't want Russell Wilson. The player was hanging out in Pittsburgh. The player was thrown with D.K. Metcalf at UCLA. Owner Art Rooney said, we keep hearing that the player is headed in our direction. All signs are positive so far. On the other hand, the player reached out to Vikings coach Kevin O'Connell. They know each other from their playing days.

And O'Connell talked to him. But it seems like nothing is going to come of that as of now, unless potentially J.J. McCarthy doesn't look healthy, has a bad spring or whatever, maybe they go back there. So right now for the player, it looks like Pittsburgh, Minnesota, or retirement. Ruiz, that was a great idea. I thought I was going to screw it up multiple times. Where are you on what is going to happen with the player in the weeks and months ahead? Now, you did a great job on that. I commend you. But the more I think about it, the fit between Arthur Smith's offense and what the Steelers do and the player,

and what he prefers, the more I kind of am talking myself into this working out. I know by August I'm going to talk myself into the Steelers making the playoffs and winning a wildcard spot. I'm going to be saying Tomlin's done it with Duck Hodges. He's done it with Mason Rudolph. Of course he can do it with the player. The players won three MVP's in his career. But I will say this. I think the fit is better than we all think just because we have seen Arthur Smith operate or thrive really when he was in Tennessee as a play caller running a system.

running a system that was adopted from Matt LeFlor and we saw Rogers, oh, damn it, I messed up. We saw the player win two MVP's under the floor in the same offense. The difference was like usually we've talked about Rodgers not liking to go under center and running. Ruiz, come on, focus here. It's impossible.

I don't know how you were able to do. We saw the player didn't like to go under center and run play action, but the player was able to run play action from the gun under LaFleur. And I think that Arthur Smith will be able to run a similar style of offense where you can Jerry ring his offense. So Rogers.

I'm done. I'm done. I'm done talking. Deante, the player does not have interest in taking input and feedback from a new coordinator who can help him be the best version of himself. The player wants to do what he wants to do. That was a few years ago.

Then when he got his opportunity, the player brought in his guy, did what he wanted to do. He's learned his lesson. Deontay, I don't think the players learned anything. I have no interest in this marriage. You're good at this field. You're good at such a team as a player. I have very little interest in the player at this stage in his career anyway. Like, that's just where I'm at with it.

I'm sure that when he called Kevin O'Connell, they had a nice chat. And Kevin O'Connell probably got off the phone and saying, like, love you, Aaron Rogers. But no. Whoa, whoa. Hell no. But the answer is no. You know, the answer is, No, I think that this is going to be, this is going to be Pittsburgh for the player.

That's where he's going to land. Because the owner doesn't come out and say this unless he has talked to his head coach and said, that's true. We are starting the 2025 season with this player as our starting quarterback. Right. There'd be no need to be maybe not definitive, but there's some very clear hints pointing in that direction. And I think that that's just what it's going to be. I think that Tomlin's probably made his peace with it.

And the fact that they continue to say, hey, it's not our. timeline is Aaron's timeline. We're not worried about what the player is going to do. He can do whatever he wants, right? Like when he's ready to show up, he's going to show up. We're not worried about him with OTAs. We know the guy's going to be a professional. We're not worried about this. We're not worried about that. Whenever he's ready to show up, it's his show. All right. That tells me what it's going to be. And I cannot wait for the mess. That will be the 2025 Steelers with the player at quarterback, those two receivers and Mike Tomlin trying to hold this house up on his shoulders once again.

Over under, how many games they win? With the player at quarterback? With the player at quarterback. I'm setting it at eight and a half. Okay. You're a little bit more optimistic than I am. I was sitting at seven and a half. In my head, my head said eight and a half.

I would lean to look into it further, but I can't get over what Tomlin has done with other quarterbacks throughout his career, where I've learned that I've written in many a bold prediction column at multiple jobs about this is the year the Steelers finish under 500 and guess what? It's looked stupid every time so I'm a bit gun shy

about predicting that but you know what I may be willing to do it again this summer let's see how this plays out they went 10 games with the players all I'm saying what you do is call up that division and conference not a chance

you know what Pittsburgh has benefited so much from the fact that they had to see Baltimore in the wild card around and that game was over so fast that we didn't have to spend much time thinking about it it is very easy to forget that in December, the defense hated each other too.

They fell apart. They were a train rack. Everybody in that building was sick of looking at one another. Hey, what was calling out guys, we'll say guys. I think people have some feelings about who those guys were. Certain safety. It felt like guys. You know, for not playing very well.

If you watch the tape, their lineback room was not playing at the level that it needed to. Their edge room was a mess because Alex Highsmith wasn't healthy for all season. guys they brought in didn't really provide very much, and they still have a corner's problem. And I don't think that the defense enjoyed the quarterback situation as it was last season. Why would it be any different with this one? They won 10 games. They won 10 games. Everything you just said, they won 10 games.

And that's like the Steelers locker room every season. Apparently, sometimes we learn it a couple of years later. But this time, we got the news during the season. I don't know. I just think, like, the offense will be much better than it was last year. I think we're underrating how bad Russell Wilson and Justin Fields were. Oh, man. All right.

Well, we will discuss the player more when something else happens. All right. Last old, another old man quarterback, Kirk Cousins, Arthur Blank, with Jesus owners. I mean, unbelievable some of these quotes. Arthur Blank said he had an hour-long conversation with Kirk Cousins where he took five pages of notes. I want to see him. I want to see this. Who cares?

Can we put a note? request to get these notes. Yeah. I mean, that's just unbelievable. Like, I love that he thought that was a flex. Like, I took five. What? Why did you probably didn't need to, my man, you know?

I think that could have been a very short, you wasted an hour. Hopefully we're talking about, you know, his kids and family and golfing in Atlanta and all that, because I don't know what you could have possibly been talking about in terms of football for a full hour. But the cliff notes, or maybe if someone had Arthur Blanks legal pad, it sounds like this is what it might say. is that Kurt Cousins wants to start somewhere, but might wait or wants to wait until after the draft to decide where that could be

because he doesn't want to get traded somewhere. He's got the no trade clause, so he does have some leverage here. He doesn't want to get traded somewhere and then see that team draft a quarterback. I don't know why that would be at the top of his head. Maybe he's a little paranoid. I don't know, but that's in his head. So he wants to wait. Diana Rossini of the athletics says there is some smoke around the Cleveland Browns.

trading for Kirk Cousins. The Steelers, as we just mentioned, could also be an option. And so there you go. It sounds like Cleveland, Pittsburgh, or just hang out in Atlanta and collect a paycheck. Not a bad game, to be honest. I wrote down here, Ruiz, Team CTC would say, Kirk, because I was thinking about it's no trade clause. Don't waive that thing for anybody, Kirk.

You know, do this. It's a quasi-retirement. So in other words, you're not retiring because you're not giving up that money. You hang out in Atlanta. That's where you moved your family. Nice place to live, I would assume. You can help out Michael Pennix, Jr. But you can let your body recover, you know, take some reps at practice.

But give the young bucks an opportunity. Prepare for life after football. So you're still studying the league. You're studying other teams. Maybe you want to go into content next year. Maybe you want to go into broadcasting. Maybe you want to coach. I wouldn't, as team CTC, I would not suggest coaching.

but that's up to you. Maybe you want to do that. You don't have to move your family. That's option number one. Option number two is you wave the no trade clause and you're going to the AFC North and you're playing outside in Pittsburgh or Cleveland and you're taking hits and you're probably not winning anything significant. No, thank you.

If I'm advising, if I'm Kirk Cousins buddy, I'm saying we're not waiving that no trade clause for anybody. The money's coming in regardless. Let's hang out in Atlanta. for 2025. So that's where I'm at with it. That's what I would do. You could just be a member of the chain game. Just sit there and don't do anything. You can wear your jersey and everything. But like, yeah, going back to the notes thing, what were the notes that he took?

That this guy is, what, 36 years old, injured and scared to compete? I have AI tools. I use AI tools to transcribe stuff. If I'm working at the feel like for media day, you know, you don't always have time to scribble stuff down as you're running around. I just need a little bit of computer help. That to me sounds like he's got a little an little AI, a little AI bot that's just, you know, transcribing things as it's happening. And we talked a little bit about Michael Parsons having a short conversation with Jerry Jones. I can imagine how short this one needed to be if I'm Kirk Cousins. Hey, if you got something, if you got something for me, talk to my agent.

If not, see you in September. That's it. Like, what else is there to talk about? I'll see you when it's time for me to see you. I'm not going to be the starter here. My money is guaranteed here anyways. You guys are the ones who have to figure out what you're going to do with me. I don't have to figure out what I'm going to do with you.

If you find me a spot where I can go start after the draft, go ahead. If you want to June 1st to me, be my guess. My money's coming either way. But don't call me until you've come up with what your idea is. I'm going to be hanging out in Metro Atlanta or wherever he likes to vacation up until training camp kicks off. It's just hard to find a landing spot for him at this point. Like, I mean, he goes to Cleveland.

Like, what's the upside there for him? I don't know why. I mean, there just isn't one, honestly. It really isn't. Who knows? So you think Rogers would be a, oh, man, I was doing so well. You think the player would definitely be a better option for Pittsburgh than Cousins. Yeah.

I would agree with that. Yeah. I don't know that I agree with that. But we've seen the player look more like himself or like the type of quarterback you would need to get to get your money's worth more recently than we have seen from Cousins. I don't know. Cousins had some moments. Cousins the first couple months. He had moments.

Yeah, but what about the last couple months? And that's the problem that's hard to get over. See, and I think the inverse is true of Rogers, right? The inverse is true of Rogers, where he finished much better than he started this season. I don't know that the, I don't know if the distance is wide in either direction. I mean, if you had to, if he absolutely had. You told me my job was on the line and I had to pick one of these two guys. I'm going to take Rogers and just hold my nose and hope for the best versus having cousins.

but I don't think that anybody's going anywhere with either of these guys. And if on Pittsburgh, at least, because we're so better and heavy, I'd much rather have Rogers just for the sake of the ceiling. All right. So we'll see what happens with those two guys here in the next month or so. All right, those are all the topics, fun conversations around the NFL, things that were happening in the last week here. Next week, you might have a little mock draft for the audience.

We're still figuring it out, but I haven't done a full. mock draft yet. Maybe we'll split up some teams, go over some picks, and get into that as we are quickly approaching the 2025 NFL draft. All right. Thank you to Stephen Ruiz and Deontay Lee. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing. Thank you to Kira Givens on social additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgapal. I'm Sheila Kapadia. We will talk to you next time on the Ringer NFL show.