The Ringer NFL Show - NFL Scouting Combine Winners and Losers

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

Steven and Diante get together after an eventful NFL scouting combine to share their overall reactions and speculate on which prospects, teams, and trends will shape the league in the upcoming season. Topics include: Top QB prospects (3:04) The WR1 debate (19:44) The war on running backs (32:02) The combine "wow" factor (39:10) Can Travis Hunter be a two-way player in the NFL? (50:12) Possible draft steals (57:55) The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Steven Ruiz and Diante Lee Producer: Chris Sutton Social: Kiera Givens Production Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Bill Simmons, and I want to tell you about my movie podcast, The Rewatchables. We're each week, I'm joined by Ringer movie lovers, Chris Ryan, Sean Venacy, Van Lathen, Kyle Brandt, Matley Rubin, we have a whole bunch of people on. We talk about movies. We can't stop rewatching. And now you can watch us cover these movies on video in the Spotify app. We have covered over 350 movies, including Heat, Goodfellas, Boogie Nights, Pulp Fiction. We have some real heavy hitters coming up here in 2025.

Make sure to follow us on Spotify, where you can watch. every new episode right now. Just head to the rewatchables on Spotify, now on video. And welcome to a special post-combine edition of the Ringer NFL show. De Yante, I was in Indiana. You weren't in Indiana this week.

And I'm going to be honest, you didn't really miss anything until the biggest story of the combine, the insider fight between Ian Rappaport and Jordan Schultz. You know I had to bring that up at the top of the show. I don't necessarily need your take on the matter, but just initial thoughts when you heard, when you heard the news break.

The second I saw Starbucks, obviously, I think anybody who's into the combine knew exactly what the Starbucks was just in the headline because that's where a lot of people congregate. So, like, my first thought was just like, I wonder, I just wondered about who the passerbyes were, you know, because a lot of coaches will be walking through that area, GMs, player personnel guys. Obviously, the media is coming in and out at that time. And I think if you've been at the combine, I think everybody kind of knows that that Wednesday and Thursday feels like you get a little tired, need a little bit of caffeine to push you through. So the fact that it happened so early in the week was maybe a little surprising to me.

And the fact that it was over like maybe the least important details of the whole Matthew Stafford thing was also very hilarious. And I just can't get the image, the image out of my head of Shulton Rappaport having this back and forth and just looking at the tail of the tape. because that had to be a pretty funny thing to be looking at if you were walking by. Honestly, the highlight of it for me was the Mike Floreo blog on Pro Football Talk afterwards. It's just a masterful job. And like I tweeted out, he was born to write that blog. And like this is how big of a story that was. When I came back on Saturday night, I had dinner with some friends.

And the first thing they brought up wasn't any of like the Matthew Stafford talk, wasn't anything that anybody ran the times, the 40 times. It was the insider fight. Were you there for the reporter? fight. I was not there in person, but spiritually, I feel like I was very much there. But we're going to be talking about the actual goings-on in the NFL Combine in this episode. We're going to do a winners and losers exercise. It's a non-traditional winners and losers, especially with the combine. We're not going to be just talking about who ran the fastest 40,

who ran the slowest 40. We're going to be talking about different topics. For instance, let's get started with the first loser. And that's the Giants Dream quarterback scenario. I felt like every quarterback needy team, when they heard the news that the Rams were going to allow Matthew Stafford to go around and talk to teams and look for a trade partner. I think every QB needy team, their eyes, their ears perked up and they're like, all right, this is it. We can get out of all the mistakes we made at this position in the past. If we could just land Stafford, that will give us a very good floor for our quarterback situation. But as we all kind of expected, it turned out to be just a little negotiation tactics, a little bargaining between the two sides.

Ultimately, the Rams and Stafford do come together. they have an agreement, they restructure his deal, to give him the raise that he was looking for, and he will be in L.A. next season, which leaves teams like the Giants, the Raiders, the Jets, a full list of teams, really without a quarterback, without a plan at quarterback outside of the draft. And I wanted to focus on the Giants who are drafting third in this draft,

and obviously we don't know what's going to happen with that first pick. It sounds like Tennessee might try to move on, move out of it. They might take a defensive player and Abdul Carter. So it seems like the Giants are going to, even if they don't trade up, they're going to have their pick of one of the two top quarterbacks in this draft. Obviously, Cam Ward and Shador Sanders, just based on buzz around the combine and being there talking to people, it seems like Cam Ward is separating themselves as QB1 in this class, whereas Shador seems to be falling out. I don't know if he had the best combine in terms of interviews and behind the scene stuff.

So I just wanted to talk about that and talk about a realistic plan for the Giants and what their options look like heading into the offseason. because this Stafford News really did, I think, set the table for the quarterback market, both in the draft, in the trade market, and in free agency for the off season. So, Deonté, I wanted to ask you, if you were the Giants, kind of how would you look at their options this offseason? And how would you stack them against one another? And that could be a draft pick, and that could be our veteran option in free agency. Well, to me, you know, until the news came out that the Rams were going to allow Matthew Stafford to look for potential suitors, I was looking at the Giants, I was looking at the Titans.

I was looking at the Raiders is teams that are, you just don't want to be in their position, right? Like there's not a lot of quarterback certainty with this class, a lot of the veteran options. You're not looking at a lot of certainty. There are certain guys that might not even be available to you for a while, right? Like we don't have clarity yet on what Sam Donald's situation is going to look like. I think Kirk Cousins was probably going to end up being a post-June first cut.

So if you're looking to get Kirk Cousins in as your veteran guy, you're going to have to wait for a little bit, I think, to get to him. Right. And you just don't want to be in those positions. You don't want to be making those decisions. you don't want to be left looking at Aaron Rogers, right? That's a very much like into the night in the club. You're right.

Exactly, you know. Yeah. That's a 3-8. That's after the club already is close. That's leaving Prime 47, you know, your worst decision being made on the way out of Prime 47 at 3-4 in the morning to make a combine reference. But I thought that if the Giants were able to land Matthew Stafford, I thought that that was going to allow them to do the most important thing for them.

And I would say the Jets as well, which is giving. gives them an opportunity to double dip, right? Go get a veteran that you know you'll have for a year. You can still use your top 10 draft capital at quarterback, what you're going to need to do because you're probably bringing in an aging guy or somebody that's going to be on a one year, two-year, prove-a-deal where you can get out of it after a year. But now that that option's off the table,

I think the team that might be best positioned still is maybe the Jets because they just have enough talent around them. You know, I was listening to Old Ringer, old ringer worker Robert May is on the athletic show talking with Dan Graziano about like Justin Fields being a potential option in New York. And there are a lot of other veteran quarterbacks that are maybe looking at New York, at the jet, excuse me, as kind of a springboard situation. So I would say that they're probably the leaders in the clubhouse of the teams that absolutely need a quarterback.

And I would say if you're the Raiders, maybe you're in the worst position. Because to get access to Cam Ward, you're going to. have to jump in line quite a few spots. It's going to cost you a lot of draft capital. And I think that that allows the Giants to spend some time really doing some recon on exactly what the trademark is going to be like for Tennessee's number one pick if it is indeed shopped. And if the price does get too high, you might be able to sit back and just say, hey, what takes you doer? I don't know if it's going to work or not at three. Or you might be able to trade back yourself because you know a team is going to take a huge swing to go get what

is, I think, and ultimately going to be the consensus number one quarterback in this class that might actually kind of open up the doorway for you to be able to accumulate some other draft capital, maybe fall back, you know, trade back with like Jacksonville or a team like that, so you make sure you stay ahead of the Raiders, but still be able to go get a guy that you want, maybe accumulate some draft capital or preserve what you already have, and start building out the rest of this roster. I think, yeah, if you're the Raiders, then yeah, you're probably in a tough spot, but I think everybody else might be able to get back to regularly scheduled programming now that Matthew Staffer's not available any longer.

Yeah, the Raiders definitely feel like the team that's like, oh, crap, what do we do now? Like, they had Stafford at the ski resort. It's actually up for a debate where they had them either at Tom Brady's house or at the ski resort. But either way, he was talking to Tom Brady and it felt like maybe there was a possibility that the Rams would end up training them, even though it really didn't make much sense from the Rams perspective, like with their timeline. Right. But the timeline thing is kind of interesting with the Giants because you have a coach and a GM who are on their last legs. and that's putting it lightly.

Like, I'm kind of surprised they both survived. Like, we're at the point where teams aren't doing the offseason hard knocks anymore because of how badly things went with Joe Shane because of the Seekwant-Barkley thing in particular. But they need a win. And I think that makes this a little more complicated than, hey, let's find the best option for the next 10 years at quarterback, which would be let's trade up.

Maybe it's Cam Ward. They probably do have to trade up at this point to get Cam Ward. Not only do they have the Browns at number two, but the Titans could also take a quarterback at number one. But that leads me to believe that I could see them ending up with a quarterback, but I still think they need to pursue a veteran and a veteran that gives them a chance to win now. They need two options. I honestly think the model for Atlanta, which isn't a good model looking back on it,

but that model where they have the veteran and they have the highly drafted quarterback, just don't spend $140 million on the veteran quarterback, okay? It could even be Kirk Cousins. Just don't give them $140 million. And I think that could really work for them. Because if they're going to have to win a couple games early on to keep the vibes good, to keep, you know, fans from calling for their head. Because, like, it could happen in week six.

If things get off to a rough start, I could see them clearing the house by the end of October. So if I'm them, and I'm looking at these veteran quarterback options, if I did have to pick out of this group, I think I'm winning Kirk Cousins. I think I'm taking the bet that he did injure his shoulder because that was the talk of the Cobbibbibb, Kirk Cousins. It was actually at the Super Bowl. Kirk Cousins revealed that he had a right. shoulder injury in the week 10 game against the Saints.

And then if you look back at his splits from weeks one to 10 before that game, he's a top 10 quarterback by EPA. And like a top 15 quarterback by success rate. So he was producing at that point, the shoulder injury does or doesn't happen. Again, the Falcons are kind of saying like we didn't really know about that. It's hard to tell what that is. Like it could be, oh, he wasn't actually hurt or it wasn't, it didn't rise to the level where we had to put it on the injury report or it could be, we're protecting our

masses because we don't want to get a fine from the league or a penalty from the league from withholding that information. But I kind of buy that explanation. And I think he's the one out of all these available guys, especially like if you take Sam Darnel off the list, because if you are spending a top five pick or whatever it ends up being on a quarterback, I don't think you can splurge on Sam Darnel. I think if you're getting Sam Darnel, it has to be like a three to five year window that you're looking at.

I got to go with Kirk because the other options are like Russell Wilson, which is, you that's going to change your whole offense. We saw it with Sean Payton. It's hard to build an offense around that quarterback. And then Aaron Rogers is the same idea, but a lot more baggage in the locker room. And we saw the effect that it's had on the Jets. Like even the Jets have wiped their hands clean of this situation.

And it's still kind of affecting their locker room with like Garrett Wilson and Quentin Williams saying, I'm not up for another rebuild. Actually, I guess Garrett Wilson, that's what he wanted. He wanted Rogers out of there. But some of the other players in the locker room were kind of bum to see Aaron Rogers go because of what that means. So I'm going with Kirk.

Where would you go if you had to take a veteran option out of the ones? I think if you're looking at the older guys, I think that I'll throw Jesse. I was going to say of the older guys, I think if I'm willing to believe that what we saw in the last two months of the season was more due to injury than Kurt Cousins hitting some kind of age cliff, then yeah, I think you bring in Kirk Cousins at a near minimum. I think they're from a negotiating perspective. if you're a team that's just looking to spend the absolute least and maybe get the most return on investment on bringing in a veteran quarterback, Kurt's going to make a lot of sense from that perspective because he likely is going to be a post-June 1st. He's going to leave with his money, right?

And that's going to give him an opportunity to have maybe his choice of whatever is left over and might be able to go start someplace depending on how the quarterback market plays out. I would say of the sub 30 guys, it's really just like Justin Fields. and I guess maybe like Mac Jones and Jacoby Brissette that you're picking from. I don't know. And Jacob Brissette is 32, so let me not put him with Mac Jones and Justin Fields. I would say, though, I guess I just struggle with, if you're bringing in Brissette, I don't know if he's going to be your starter for more than a month. They're probably bringing him in just to hedge against whoever your starter is getting hurt, right?

Like that's not part of your actual quarterback planning. And I would say with Mac Jones and Justin Fields, I mean, they're just not really. liable enough either truly be in the conversation as we're going to start building our roster around having these guys in, even as stopgaps. Those would just be cheaper options. I think it's entirely possible that several teams leave this all season really unhappy, feeling really unsatisfied with their quarterback situation. And if you're a team like the Raiders, if you're a team like the Giants, you don't want to have to compete for Sam Donald, right? You don't want, you don't want Minnesota to get,

you know, to get win that teams feel like they have to bring him in because he's the closest free agent to being an average and NFL average starting quarterback. Because now they can slap the franchise tag on him and start negotiating for a trade, right? Like you wanted to stay as quiet as possible. You're rooting for New York to be able to bring in veteran guys. You're rooting for Indianapolis to bring in veteran guys,

to bring in a veteran guy. You're rooting for all these teams who have quarterback instability to be bringing in older veteran guys on one year, vet minimum or, you know, $6 to $8 million, prove it deals like you saw Sandra or do last season and hope that that works out for them so that way you don't end up in a bad negotiating position, right? So I would say to me, the bigger conversation outside of what we're talking about with the veteran quarterbacks is just what the conversation is with Shador Sanders. Because I think we're also talking about this differently.

Yeah. If there was a consensus in the NFL that both Ward and Sanders were surefire, you know, potential plus starter types. And guys, could step in from day one and be an additive to your offense. And it just does not seem like the conversations happening around the combine, the conversation that we have with our colleagues who are evaluating players. I don't feel nearly a solid about how the NFL feels about Sanders, as I did in October and November when he was still in the college football season. Yeah, I would have thought, like, before the combine, I would have been like, yes, he's a lock and I think he's going to be a top 10 pick after the combine. And granted, you never know if this is

smoke, you never know what teams are trying to do, what type of narrative they're trying to put out there. But it seems like Chador has not only a top 10 lock, like a first round lock isn't, it isn't a lock, is what I should say. And we're even starting to hear like some of the other quarterbacks get hyped up that weren't even on the first round radar a couple of months ago. Like Will Howard, for instance, I saw a tweet from a nasty names in this list. I'm sorry, I'm not doing the Will Howard thing. I refuse to participate in this. I'm not even, I'm just going to skip his name. But, like, Jackson Dart, I feel like, has had some buzz well before the combine.

I've seen some analysts online also hyping up his tape. I watched some of his tape on the plane on the flight to Indy. And I mean, pro Knicks can be a first-round pick. I'm not going to rule out Jackson Dart being, but I would not be happy if I ended up with him. Like, you kind of get it. He's a guy who can deliver the football accurately at times. You can see his helmet strike moving. That's a big thing.

He's going through his progressions, even though he plays in an offense where, They don't really ask him to do that. Like, he can cosplay as a first round quarterback at times. But there are also times, like at the end of the Florida game, for instance, where you see the worst of him and you see why teams, why he was in that type of offense to begin with and why teams would question him as a first round pick in an NFL level processor.

There's Tyler Shuck who's been in college for, I don't, God knows. Seven years, dude. He's 25 years old. Come on now. Get a job. Get a job. I'm not an NFL job. I'm not doing this with him.

I'm not doing this with him. him like the Shadour thing is its own thing. We can kind of have another conversation. There's still plenty of time. And like you said, we don't know what's smoking, what's not. We still have effectively two months between now and the draft, right? Like there's a lot of time for opinions to change. But I'm not doing Shug.

I'm not doing DART. Like, I think that if you've watched the games long enough with DART, you know exactly why somebody would be intrigued. And he's one of those guys that the longer you're exposed to watching him play, the more you understand why he can't be a first round type. a quarterback. I don't, I've had trouble with like guys like Jaylon Milro, right? Yeah. Milro and Howard are guys that I think can give you some trouble as an evaluator, especially

with Milro because you know he has a bit of armed talent. You know the athleticism is there. He was built as a thirst trap for me. Me specifically. He's like a honeypot prospect for Stephen Ruiz specifically. 1,000 percent. And I think that if, depending on how the draft war shakes out, if you're a team in the third round. And let's say you struck out with getting Shadour because you were hoping that he drops. And you just wanted some project type guy that maybe can, you know, be a spot starter for you early in his career and you can develop him into something later.

Milro to me makes a lot of sense in that respect, right? Like earlier in the week, I mentioned that Jalen Hertz is going to give a guy like Milro an opportunity to get drafted and be taken seriously by NFL evaluators because you might be able to take a longer track with his development. You might be able to pair things down for your offense. and really try to feature what he does well. This is not Anthony Richardson, where you're going off a very small sample size, right?

He doesn't have the highest volume of throws, but you've had them for a couple of years now. And you've seen him in what people, at least in the college football realm, really considers a legitimate offense, right? Playing under his head coach of Alabama and playing under Nick Saban prior to that. I think that you can maybe kind of,

you can talk yourself into giving a guy like that a chance. I just think outside of those, outside of a guy like him, there's really nobody left in that round, you know, third round, fourth round, in a day three guys that I feel like, oh, you could take a swing at and something can happen for him, right? There's no Spencer Radler in this class. No. And it feels like recently, like I wrote about this, I think two years ago, maybe it was last year's draft, how the second round quarterback has kind of just disappeared off the face of the earth. Like a team like the Giants, they picked 34th. They could be in line to take one of these

guys if they did fall. Like if Shador, if the smoke is real and Shadour does somehow fall, out of the first round, which I'm kind of skeptical about that. They could conceivably land him. But no, I'm with you. I feel like those projects are where I would take the swings on day two, rather than taking a swing on a six-year senior, like Tyler Shuck, who was in the same recruiting class as Penae Sewell, by the way, at Oregon. And it wasn't like he was one of those late breakout guys, but he played for Oregon.

It wasn't like they didn't have pieces around it. Exactly. Like, he should have, if he was a guy, I think he would have shown it at Oregon, and he transferred to a couple places, ended up at Louisville. But I'm with you on that one. I think Jalen Milrow would be the guy whose hands somehow did grow,

the senior ball. It was like almost a full inch from the senior ball to now he's above the threshold and it's okay, he's got big enough hands. I don't know what happened between those couple of weeks, but good news for him. I guess we can leave it out there.

We can move on now to our next winner. I think that the winner, a big winner from this past week, is the wide receiver, one debate. Because I think there was a very good chance that Ted McMillan comes in, runs tests, runs like a 4-5-40, and that would have been enough at his size and his frame. And with his tape to be like, all right, there's the number one wide receiver in the draft. We don't even have to worry about these other guys, but he doesn't work out. And then Matthew

Golden of Texas comes in and runs a 4-29. I don't know if you've gotten a chance to watch Golden's tape yet at Texas, but does that 4.29 speed show up? That's it. No. No. No. He runs. like a four, he does run like a four four, like a mid four four guy. Okay. Or like he can get behind a defense. So I don't want to make it sound like he's a total fraud from a speed from the speed department. But no, it's not.

The Jalen Millerian size of 40 times. Exactly. Like talking about an old Texas player or a Texas player from last year, Xavier Worthy's four two. You could watch him at any point in time in his career at Texas and have predicted like, okay, that's probably going to be low four three, high four twos. then he goes and breaks the 40 record altogether, right? Which was ridiculous while I run a 14-1.

But no, I don't see that with Golden. And I still think he's a solid receiver. I think that this is an interesting, this is going to be an interesting test case for how teams feel about this position, right? We've heard so often like, oh, you can just take a swing at any guy in the top 50 at wide receiver. You're probably going to get a starting quality player.

And I think that that's true. And we talked about that. We were talking about our draft commandments, you know, a few pod episodes ago. I'm really interested to see how teams look at this wide. receiver class because I think there are a lot of high level role players. I just don't know if anybody outside of McMillan profiles as a star, I think the burden can be a high-end starter now that we know what his speed is

and knowing what he can do with the ball in his hands. The other thing I was thinking that's really interesting, and I know we'll get in to talking about him as a player a little bit later, if you're Travis Hunter and you're maybe leaning on playing, you would like to play receiver a little bit more. I think this wide receiver class actually makes it a little bit more appealing to look at him in that light, looking at how tightly, you know, just kind of how tight this cluster of the top 20 receivers are, there's a chance that you might just take a shot on that guy because he does have

rare ball skills. You know that he can get open. He does have, I think, enough vertical speed to be able to play outside. You know we can create with the ball in his hands enough to play on the inside as well. I can understand the teams that are looking at him at receiver, I think, a little bit more than I would have maybe a month or so ago when the conversation was really kind of heating up about him wanting to be a two-way guy. Yeah, there isn't that stand-up prospect. We didn't get a standout performance at the Combine outside of Golden Running, the 4-2-9.

We did have some guys kind of surprised, like Jalen Oll ran a good time, the Iowa State wide receiver. I am Minore from Stanford, ran a good time. Ty felt it, a turp. I got to say, he's a good ball player. I haven't grinded the film, but just watching Maryland Live. He was the best player on Maryland's offense. He goes out, runs a fast 40-time, puts up a good vertical

jump, a good broad jump. He looks like an athlete, and I'm telling you his tape is good. I don't know about him, his route running at the NFL level if he's going to get open, but I think when the ball's in his area, he's going to catch it. So I wanted to ask, like, obviously compared to past draft classes where it seems like every year we're getting like five legitimate prospects, how would you, how strong would you say this class is? And are you drafted? I know we had one of the commandments, like, we don't want to be drafting wide receivers in the back half of the first round. are there guys that are good enough to command that type of draft pick? Or do you think that after we get after that first tier of prospects,

maybe like the top three, that we might have to wait till round two to start seeing other wide receivers come off the board? I think this is a great draft for waiting until the second round to go get your guy. Like even for as much as I like Luther Burton's tape, as much as I like how he ran, for as much as I like how Matthew Golden ran. Isaiah Bond, I think, kind of made himself a little bit of money today about just showing that he can run a little bit

and you know just what's on tape for him as well. I look at the rest of the class and I just think there's enough there. You go get an Ionore later in the draft. If that's a mid-second round guy for you, he's got enough size, right? I think you can still put some weight on his frame. He wins at the catch point often enough

that he can play outside. I think that you can get some good blocking out of him as well. I can understand going to get a guy like that in the second round rather than feeling like, oh, we've got to take a swing at like a Mecca, because a pedigree is so strong. We don't want to wait, you know, because we feel like he's going to be an instant starter

because we played at Ohio State as a started for so long. I would wait. I would wait. If you're not talking about Byrd and if you're not talking about McMillan, I don't know if it's worth taking, using your back half of the first round pick on a wide receiver instead of guys in the trenches, especially knowing how strong this offensive line class,

how strong the defensive line is this year, and all the talent that's in the secondary as well. Yeah, I would want to go. go for those positions of strength in this draft class. Obviously, we talked about the two positions that are maybe the weakest or maybe the most questionable in quarterback and wide receiver. But outside of that, this is a very deep draft. And this wide receiver class in particular kind of reminds me of the 2019 draft class

of wide receivers where we had a couple like size and speed guys, especially like the Ole Miss guys, D.K. Metcalf and AJ Brown. But I don't know, they didn't have the track record in the production to be first round pick. So we end up getting Marquis Brown in the first round who weighed like 160 pounds. It was like 510. We get Nikiel Harry who was just like, you know, a big hulking receiver who couldn't really separate and this tape wasn't that good. We know how that turned out. But in that draft, the teams that did wait for day two, the Titans got AJ Brown, the Seahawks get D.K. Washington gets Terry McLaurin, 49ers, get Debo Samuel. The Giants get Darius Slate.

Like even Deonti Johnson was a good pick for the Steelers for a couple of years there. I'm with you on this one. If I'm not getting tent in particular, him not running doesn't really bother me that much. These guys have pro days. We're going to know how fast he runs. We have technology now with video where we can get miles per hour just based off video

even if you don't have tracking. So I don't think that's going to be an issue. But outside of him, I don't know. It's hard to talk yourself into any of these top prospects because they don't profile as that game-breaking wide receiver. It's more of a role player. Who if they do hit, then maybe they're like a, B or A plus role player in the mold of like, I don't know, like Addison in Minnesota, I guess,

is what your best scenarios. And even that kind of feels, even that feels like a stretch for some of these guys, right? Because Addison has kind of created value for himself a little bit beyond than what people would have assumed given his physical frame coming out of USC and Pitt. I just don't know if I see guys that can be plus starters. I don't think you're going to find a Devante Smith out of this class, right? And I'm not bringing that up in terms of pedigree. right, because that was a Heisman winner.

But I'm just saying, like, there's no undersized guy that you can still take a chance on because he's got traits that you know can, you know, turn him into an A-minus B-plus level starter. I don't think that those guys are really in this class outside of McMillan and maybe burden. No, and it's going to be interesting to see how, like, the NFL offseason, like, free agency and the trade market kind of affects how teams look at this class. We've already got our first domino to fall. Washington trades, a fifth round pick for Debo Sam. you'll, I was kind of stunned when I saw the compensation at first, but then I was looking back at other trades recently for wide receivers who were kind of like in the same boat. Like they were a good player, but they were a couple of years removed from it, a big name still.

Like DeAndre Hopkins, for instance, went for a fifth. I'm blanking on another one. There's a recent guy, Mike Williams went for a fifth when the jets traded him to the Steelers. And then we still, we're getting smoke from D.K. Metcalf. There was rumors about him possibly going to Green Bay and Green Bay sending out one of those many young wide receivers that were. they can't really figure out who's the number one guy and who's the number two guy. I think getting D.K. would establish who their number one receiver is, but I feel like if Christian Watson isn't the guy getting traded, and I doubt any people would trade for him,

given his injury. Given his history. That seems kind of redundant. And I don't understand how that fit really works. And I don't know if I want like a volatile Jordan Love, D.K. Metcalf, Christian Watson offense, because that's like not a passing game. You can rely on week to week. How do you feel about D.K. as a player?

made my feelings very clear during the season on the ringer NFL show that I think he's a good player. But he leaves a lot to be desired, especially for his size. I can't imagine, I can't imagine coming out of this season for the Packers, feeling like all our receivers are decent or good, but we are still underwhelmed by their level of development. And that the answer to that problem will be bringing in D.K. Metcalfe, who is one of just like, he's spiritually a Packers receiver. Exactly. Exactly.

The Ghost of Future Christmas or whatever you say. Exactly. Like you're going to get a buffer Christian Watson, a more healthy Christian Watson, I will say. You're not getting a real X receiver at a DK-Met-Kaff. And to me, if you're the Packers, knowing how well they draft in the top 100 for the most part, they're at least able to find solid role players, if not better, even though they're usually drafting in the trenches and not at receiver within their top 50, top 75 picks. I don't understand why you apart with that to bring in a guy.

a veteran guy who is not going to immediately change your offensive ceiling. I don't see her for that. And then you'll be parting with the younger receiver, which you're going to have to do to incentivize Seattle to make that move because there's no sense from the Seahawks perspective to just part with him if you're keeping Gino around. Especially if you're getting rid of Lockett. It seems like that's a foregone conclusion at this point.

Right. Exactly. You would have a pretty empty, you'd have a pretty empty cupboard at that position pretty quickly outside of Smith & Jigua. I just don't know if that one makes the most sense. It's not for the Packers. I can understand the Seahawks wanted to make a move to just go try to add a little bit more draft capital so that way you can prepare yourself for the roster pivot that's coming after. But yeah, that's not the move I would want to make.

All right. Before we move on, I just wanted to go back to one thing you said. You mentioned that like DK's not a true X receiver. I just wanted to explain to the audience. In your eyes, what makes a true X receiver? And that just to start you off, like usually an X receiver is seen as that like alpha dollar. wide receiver one on the top of the depth chart kind of guy. I'll use one of his old college.

To me, I'll use his old college teammate. AJ Brown is a true X receiver, right? And that doesn't mean that you have to be the big bulky type. Because obviously he fits a physical profile. That was why Seattle spent a second round pick on him, in spite of the fact that he wasn't as productive as you thought he might be coming out of Ole Miss.

And you don't have to be the physical dominator Terrell Owens type of receiver to be an X, but you have to win at the catchpoint often. Justin Jefferson is a skiddy and ex-receiver as you're going to come across, but he wins at the catch point all the time, right? I would say that T. Higgins, to me, is still kind of a fringe X. He's not a high level. He's not as good as Jamar Chase as an ex-receiver, right? But he wins at the catch point at a significant enough margin that he's probably going to go out

and make, he could have gone out and made $30 million as a free agent, you know, this offseason. And if he doesn't get tagged, if he doesn't get traded, and if they're not able to land on an extension in Cincinnati, you know whatever team gets him next is going to pay him $25 to $28 million minimum to be their number one wide receiver. I just don't know if I see that often enough from DK. It's been a lot of flashes of dominance, right?

When he's at his best, there's nothing you can do with him physically because he's so fast, because he runs so well, because he's such a problem and he can draw, he can draw mismatches just off his sheer physicality because he's so much bigger than the average corner, I just don't see true X-level production from him often enough, at least specifically to the Packers, that would justify parting with draft capital if I were them. No, to me, he's just a bulky Ted Ginn, Jr., and I will not be explaining that comp any further. We're going to take a break, and we're going to come back and do our next winner and loser. All right, we're back, and I'm still not going to explain the Ted Ginn, D.K. Medcafcom.

We're going to talk about running backs. My next loser is, I'm going to say the war on running backs, because it's been a year for the running back agenda. We obviously going back to the season, we had Sequan Barkley and his run to the Super Bowl. We had Derek Henry and his run throughout the season and helping Baltimore have one of the best offenses in the NFL in tandem with Lamar Jackson. And then we have Ashton Jainty who dominated the college football season, got Boise State to the playoffs. and he looks like a lock to be a first round pick, but then he doesn't run at the combine, but that kind of opens up the spotlight for other running backs

who took full advantage of it. You have to say, like, O'Maryon Hampton from Yon C, who is a big guy, like he profiles as a bruising running back, runs a 4-4-6 at 220 pounds. I think he might have locked himself in as that second first round running back, which is something that we haven't really seen often.

It's only happened twice since 2018. That was in 2021 with Noggiwold. Harris and Travis Etienne. Actually, it happened before that. It happened in 2023 with Bejohn and Jemir Gibbs, who, another running back who really has helped the running back agenda get pushed forward. And then going all the way back to 2018, Sequant Barkley and Rashad Penny, I mean, looking at the first round running backs over the past couple of years, Bijan, Najee Harris,

Travis Etienne, T.H, Clyde Edwards, Hill, Clyde Edwards, H, Clarede, Sequan, Barclay, Rashad Penny. It's not like a perfect hit rate, but it's like 50-50, which is just as good as like, if you look at the quarterbacks, maybe even better. So I think teams are going to be more open to taking a running back in the first round. Do you see any, do you agree with me that Hampton has kind of worked his way up into that conversation? And then do you see anyone else in this running back class that could sneak in there or maybe

be a high second round pick? I'm still kind of on the fringe in terms of like draft grade for Hampton. But I think that he's close enough on like being a high day two pick that if you're Kansas city, if you're, you know, Houston, especially like if you're Minnesota, honestly. as high as 24 or the chargers. And you say, we just want some juice, a guy that can get up that that can get vertical, you know, and go get us some explosive offense out of the backfield. I think that that would make a lot of sense, right?

So I think that Hampton would be a guy in the back half of the first round that you can justify. And even if it's not a first round pick, you look at like what Quincheon Jenkins did in terms of like his explosiveness scores this week, right? Like I think there were a lot of expectations when he got to Ohio State that he and Trevion and Henderson would be a perfect split, a perfect run. running back duo. And I think that maybe we saw what the difference is between Henderson as an explosive runner and Juckins, who's a little bit more tough between the tackles can catch out of the backfield. But I think that he plays a little bit more physically between the tackles in that way.

Both of those guys could be second round picks and you can feel good about them. So I do think that we can get a lot of high level starters on their rookie deals out of this class. We didn't even see Scatterbo, you know, perform at the combine. That was a guy I was maybe a little bit more unsure about throughout the season and then going back and rewatching what he produces out of the backfield, how tough of a runner he is, his contact balance, his ball security. He has a lot, he checks a lot of boxes. He's a winning player. He's a running back. One thousand percent. And if there were a certain head coach still in New England, you know exactly where he would be landing. But I think there are a lot of useful guys. Even Dylan Samson, who's more of just like your

one cut north-south guy, can be useful for you, even if he's not an immediate starter. Devin Neal is another guy who's a slippery running back. Like, there's a lot to like out of this class. We haven't even gotten the guys like Ali Gordon and some of the other guys who were draft eligible, who I think can add, you know, value to a backfield this upcoming season. Yeah, there was like some guys like under the radar, like Virginia Tech's Basial Tutans, like runs of 4-340, low 4-3s. He's a little smaller and he didn't do well in the agility drills or the one he did. So that kind of, you know, lowers his ceiling as a draft prospect.

but there are a lot of dudes in here. But I don't know. I think if you asked me last year, I would not have considered Hampton a first round prospect. And I probably would have questioned if I would take Gentie in the first round. But we saw this year,

if you can turn a five-yard run into a 40-yard run, like how much value that adds, if you can produce explosives so your passing game doesn't have to do all the heavy lifting in that regard, just opens up so much more for your offense.

I'm going to throw a name out there for Cam Scatterball. because he's been mentioning the need for a Joker-type position. I'm going to say Sean Payton takes a shot on Scadawood. He's looking for his Taysam Hill. I know Scadabottenau is doesn't have the tight end background, but neither did Tassam Hill when he got to New Orleans for the first time. You think you can use him as a fullback in certain respects,

and you know Denver uses a fullback. So that would be a good matchup for those two. But, yeah, I think we're at one and a half first round prospects in this running back class. Is that fair to say? I think that's fair to say. And that's more than we're used to because there are some years. This used to be a non-starter as a conversation.

Yeah. So, yeah, I'm excited for this running back class. And it's been a while since I've been excited for a running back class. And I hope we get more of these. Because I remember, like, growing up, running backs were a big part of the draft class. Now it's all pass rushers, quarterback, wide receiver. Everything else is. I was talking with one of our producers are doing around Kapal, right, earlier this week.

And like we were just talking about Sequin Barclay. And one of the things that we were really harping on was that running back has been the position for so long where you got to see like the ultimate expression like of personality in your place. Yeah. Right. Shifty guys. You got to feel their effect on the game. The power back, you got to feel their effect on the game.

We don't really see that now because they've specialized the hell out of the position and deemphasized it so much. And even with wide receiver, like it's really hard, I think, to capture that outside of just dunk on guys. Everyone thinks they're Stevie Johnson now at the line of scurrence. Right, exactly. They're like the crossover release. Yeah. 1,000 percent.

So I do love the fact that we just get to have more conversations about the unique abilities of each of these guys. Because we could have a 15 minute conversation about Ashen Genti and we could walk away from it and still feel like we don't exactly capture what it's like watching that dude run. Right. Like there is like some prodigal level town when it comes to making guys miss being able to turn nothing into something.

and how often he got explosive plays out of loaded boxes at Boise State, basically being the only viable offensive option that they had for his entire career and still being as productive as he was. I mean, I love the fact that we're probably going to hear him be called in the first half of the first round in this draft. And that more than likely, just like with Bejohn Robinson, this is a guy who's going to step into the league and be just as valuable as everybody who's been watching him for the last two to three years has said that he would be.

Yeah, I do think we need Bejohn to have a huge second or third season, I guess. We need them to have a huge season to kind of like to get this on track. Yeah, I need an 1800 plus all-purpose yard season with 10 to 12 touchdowns. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. All right. So let's move on. Very excited about the running back group in this draft class.

But let's move on to our next winner. The Combine Wow Factor. There weren't a lot of people testing. Like a lot of the big names skipped on testing. And we've kind of seen that trend come up over the last couple of years. There's been a lot of questions whether the combine is a dead event. Some teams weren't even showing up to it a couple years ago, like the 49ers, the Rams. I think that started to change after some down years.

I think San Francisco just had a down year and like, you're going to the combine. Okay. I think that happened. That happened with the Jets last year, I think, right, where Robert Solomon wasn't going to show up. And I think Joe Douglas said something at the conference. I forgot to stop that. He's like, you're coming in. Press availability.

Yeah, that's what happens when you lose football games, and you actually have to show your face. Deonté didn't show up to any. The biggest name of all. You didn't show. You didn't miss anything. Guess what? We went to high velocity. Guess where we went after?

It's the same thing every year. We ate stakes. It's the same thing every year. But there were some standout performances. And chief among them is South Carolina safety, Nick. I'm on Worry, who runs a 4-4-second 40, 43-inch vertical, an 11-foot fraud jump. And I'm not done.

The guy is built like Cam Chancellor. The guy could play linebacker. I think there might have been questions about whether you want to move him to linebacker. But then he blows those out of the water by putting up these numbers. I don't know if you've had a chance to watch him, but what's your feel on him as a safety? And do you think that a position change is in order? Do you think you can keep him there? And then if you can, what type of safety would he end up being in the NFL?

I think watching the NFL network's coverage of this from home, right? I know that Daniel Jeremiah throughout the Derwin James comp, which is just like, it's just so strong to me that, like, initial reaction is to just like dismiss that outright. That's tough. I do think though, I think that what's tricky about a guy with this physical profile is who the hell else do you comp into with that position if you're not bringing up like those freak outliers like a Derwin James, right? Like a Cam Chancellor.

It's really difficult to find guys who are 6.3, 215 plus and run as well as he runs. I think that the interesting thing for me and the thing that I really need to dig more into with his tape. It's just watching him in tight coverage, right? I think that he'll move really well. As his own defender, he's got the length. I think he has enough ball skills to be productive. He saw enforced turnovers last year at South Carolina. So I don't have any doubts that he can be a plus coverage player. I guess to me the concern is like, how do you handle a guy that big? Does he really navigate space deep down the middle of the field enough to be a center fielder? Right. Like, I'm still not certain about that because South Carolina wanted to keep him close to the line of scrimmer more often than not.

And if he wasn't right at, you know, the line of scrimmage or in the box, he's usually hanging out on the seam, right, in quarters or something to that effect, where he can be close to the ball. So I think that maybe that's it, right? You give him some kind of like Kyle Hamilton light roll or some Jalen Petrie light roll and just see where he sticks, right? Is it more in the slot or is it more, you know, kind of deep as a true, like, strong safety type? Yeah, because I feel like there was a time not too long ago where the line between

safeties was, is he a middle of the field guy or is he a box guy? And that's kind of changed to, is he a safety or is he a nickel? I feel like over the last couple of years. And I just want I don't want him to go to a team with a defensive coordinator that just wants to use them as a jack of all trades and like move them all over the place. Like Isaiah Simmons, who wasn't a safety, he was a linebacker in the NFL, but that was one of the kind of a similar, you know, physical body type and athleticism. And it didn't work out. Like he never really special. anywhere. I want him to get to a team with a defensive coordinator that understands, like, I'm going to give you a job. You're a guy who can do a job. We're going to put you in a specific

role, and we're just going to let you just wreak havoc from that role. Whether it's, whether it's like a Baltimore, I think their infrastructure, their coaching infrastructure, I know they've had different defensive coordinators. I think it just sets up for that. Or like a team like the chargers who come from that same like coaching tree. Or I'm going to throw out, like we mentioned Cam Chancellor. What about P. Carroll in Las Vegas? I would love to see him in that style. of defense also. So a lot of options for him who probably has solidified himself as a first round prospect with his performance. It's kind of on the fringes before then. I think if you're a Buffalo, you've got to be crossing your fingers at a guy like that. Oh, he gets to you. Because they need

so much juice on the back end, right? That's juice and size. Exactly. Their defense, I think, gets significantly better immediately just by having a guy with his kind of range, with his kind of length, how well he shows up as a tackler, how fast he can run. You can, I, think that that will be a good spot and to the point that you were making, Sean McDermott is going to see him and be like, we're not going to screw around with it. We have Terran Johnson in the slot. We know who our outside corners are. You're going to play strong safety. And this is what strong safety is doing this defense. I can see him being really successful and not respect. You brought up Baltimore. That could be interesting. I still think that like it's funny in a lot of ways. Marlon

Humphrey almost makes it complicated for them, I think, trying to figure out what their defensive roles are going to be because he was really good last year inside and out. And if he plays like that again and you keep Kyle Hamilton deep, I think that you might run into some issues that just being like two, you have too many duplicate skill sets around the line of scrimmage, which is not a bad thing. If they're all fast and ranging, I just think that it's tricky there. I think that the Rams could use more juice on the back end. Yeah, that's a good team. So I would say even Philadelphia at 32, if he does fall that far, I don't know after this workout, if that's the case, right? I just think that any team basically after, from Houston to

Philadelphia, I think should be looking at him saying, like, hey, if he's there, we, can go get that guy, drop him in, and he can be an instant addition to their defense. Yeah, we also had some standouts in the workouts, especially on the offensive line. Will Campbell, who started the combine, you know, there was a lot of talk about his 32-inch arms and what that means for him as a tackle prospect. But then he goes out and he tests and he runs a sub-540 at 6-5-19. The guy was moving. And where are we on arm length with tackles?

I know it was a much bigger deal like 10 years ago, and I think we saw some guys with shorter arms kind of succeeded, not to succeed, like thrive in the NFL. We've seen a number of them. And I mean, when you see a guy move like that, I understand that you could place him at guard or whatever, but I would just play him at his natural position and just see what happens and hope for the best.

And you always have that position change in your back pocket if things don't work. I know there was some talk about that with Penae Sewell for different reasons, like whether, and that was more like he's going to play left tackle or right tackle. But I'm not scared off by the arms. I don't know if you are. I don't know if you've gotten to watch him on tape either.

I'm not either, right? Because you have to watch the tape. Like, do short arms show up as a problem for him on tape? I don't see the short arm thing showing up as an issue for him on tape, right? Like, I understood why people were hung up. Where would it show up? To me, it would be like, especially dealing with the SEC and how much length and speed is there, right? Can the guy take a deep?

Does he have to take deeper pass sets than usual to be able to. handle speed, right? Can he get his arms in and move guys as a run blocker on the outside, right? Especially with how many outside zone schemes we have in the NFL now, if you can't lock it down as a backside blocker and outside zone, it does make you a bit of a liability in that type of offensive scheme. But you don't see it, you know, you don't see it hampering his pass sets. He doesn't have to play in a particular kind of way to be successful as a pass blocker. And he run blocks well enough to where, as you're watching the tape, you just don't see any reason to be concerned outside of just what the hard measurables were going to be.

And he did exactly what he needed to do as a guy that's going to have sub 35 inch arms, which is to show up and run a sub 540, right? That's what you want to see if you want to put that conversation to bed. Because now you know you're getting a high, high level athlete. And that I think will do a lot of work in taking away some team's concerns if they are going to play him at tackle. And like you said, you give him a shot. If it doesn't work out, you can kick him inside.

And I think that he could be a terrific guard if that's what it comes to. I just think that he can be more than passable enough as a tackle to merit, still getting that high first round grade at left tackle, like the natural position he's been playing at LSU throughout his career. Yeah, I'm with you there. If the tape is good, he's a good player, and then he runs like he ran and tests like he did. Like, we're overthinking it for doing arm size.

1,000%. Yeah, like I agree. It would have definitely been exposed in the SEC where, in college in particular, where, especially in the run game, where defensive linemen are trying to control blockers, more so than shoot gaps. and stuff, and where Arm Lake really matters,

who gets their hands to who first? And it wasn't a problem. And as impressive as Campbell was in the 40, he was not the fastest offensive lineman. That was Missouri tackle, Armand Membue, who ran a 491 at 6,4, 332. Like, is it safe to let this guy in the NFL? Like, that's a serious going, like,

can we let this guy running around just doling out CTE? Because that's a big boy who is moving really fast. It's funny, you know, being in our group chat, with some of our buddies. I forget who it was. I was saying they wanted to watch Luther Burden and didn't seem all that jazzed up about watching Missouri and almost every,

all of our buddies in the media at different publications. Like, no, you need to watch Missouri and not for Burton. You need to watch all in there boo, because he is sick as a right tackle. And those are not lies at all. And for him to show up and run as well as he did, you know, I think that I don't want to make, you're not going to make any Lane Johnson comps right now

because of what he was as a prospect coming out. that was like the perfect right tackle prospect coming into the NFL. But that kind of speed and those rare traits, there's an opportunity for him to be an all pro level player athletically. And then you look at the tape and you see enough there to build upon, right? It's not like he's just some raw guy who can't block, who can't handle being out on the edge, who doesn't understand how to take pass sets yet.

There's a lot to like already. And he went out and put an elite speed number on the field. I don't think it's safe. If you're an edge rusher, I don't think it's safe for you if he's coming to block you. And I think that there are a lot of teams that can just use some utility on their offensive line, right? Like, he might not even have to be a right tackle. Maybe you move him around because he's just so athletic. Maybe you can move him to the left if that's where you have a need.

I would be really interested to see what teams think of him and where they project the next couple years for him in the NFL. As soon as I saw that workout, I thought of the Bears drafting at number 10 overall and putting him in that Ben Johnson. style of offense. Oh, my God. And what Ben Johnson would do with him after he weaponized Penae Sua, a guy that can move that Fess, that's that big. Like, that's what I want to see. I remember last year, it was Brock Bowers to the Rams.

Like every, I think every analyst I talked to was like, let me see that. It's perfect scheme fit, perfect prospect. I just want to see those two make magic together, like Sean McVeigh and Brock Bowers. Membu and Ben Johnson, please sign me up for that. And I think Caleb Williams would be very happy about that. And any bears running back in the backfield would be very happy about that. We're going to take another break and then we're going to come back with our last loser of the day. All right, welcome back.

Our last loser, I'm going to call this the Travis Hunter fantasy, or at least Travis Hunter's fantasy, of wanting to play both sides of the ball, wanting to play offense and defense. He was asked about it during his Combine Press conference. And he basically said, I'm built different. Like, I know nobody else has ever done that, but I'm built different. That was his exact quote was, nobody has done it. But I feel like I put my body through a lot. People don't get to see that part.

what I do to my body to make sure I'm 100% for each game, but I know I could do it because I've done it at the college level. I don't know, Travis. I don't know if playing two ways in the Pac-12 and the Big 12 is equal to play. No, no, playing full-time in the NFL. And I just think that would be a disaster now if there is a realistic two-way playing. Because we have seen players play both sides of the ball, but not full-time. Like Dionne Sanders famously in the 1990s, had a wide receiver package in Dallas.

It was the best quarterback in the NFL at the same time. time. So if there was a real, a realistic two-way plan for Hunter, how would you envision it? And would you receive more corner or more wide receiver if you had your druthers? I mean, if I have my druthers, I still think he's a much better corner than he was receiver. I don't think that he's a bad receiver either. Right. We were talking earlier just about where he would kind of stack up in this wide receiver class. I think it's entirely possible that he's a top three receiver. Right. He's probably is a top three receiver in this class. When you just think about the ball skills and some of the raw abilities he has in terms of catching a ball through

test it, you know, through contest from DBs, you know, how he runs vertically and all of that. But he's got, he's got a crazy feel at D.B. And I'm not the first person to say it. We're going to continue to hear that throughout this process. So that's where I want to start with him. And yeah, I do think that maybe it's, maybe it's possible that you've got a JetSuite package and you can throw him a bubble screen every once in a while. Like, this happened in college, not in the league, but I remember watching USC with the Dory Jackson. I think that's something like that can work. Because when the Dory was at SC, he was a corner. It wasn't like he was a two-way player.

But when he was on offense, we're going to throw you a screen, and it's a glorified punt return, right? Go do something with the ball. I can definitely see that for Travis Hunter. And I would say that that's what he should want. Honestly, if we're going to do this two-way thing, the full-time both ways is the quickest way to make- Travis.

You're only getting paid for one job. Exactly. A, no free labor. I don't know. I don't think a union rep has gotten to them early enough to let him know. We're not handing out free labor. And I just think that just from a durability perspective, I think that it's an unfair expectation for him to set upon himself.

I don't want to say that it can't be done. Just knowing the league and knowing the wear and tear that wide receivers are taking at this stage, especially now with how much movement is involved, right? Like, I remember reading studies on how much guys are moving around an NBA court in a modern era because it's just so free and open, there's so much pace and space. If you're Travis Hunter and you're playing in the slot, Do you really want to be running all these motions all the time and dealing with what comes with playing in the middle of the field? Just to turn around and go be a full-time corner, I would be interested to see what an offensive package is that you could build around him, where maybe he's running option routes.

Maybe you do put him outside. Maybe you're just trying to pick on a mismatch. Maybe it's like what I said, where these are glorified punt returns and you're giving them screens and RPO chances to go get yards after the catch. That would be fine for me. I just don't think that the juices worth to squeeze in terms of trying to make him a full-time two-way player and I would like for that conversation

to end early, just to be fair to him because I wouldn't want him to feel like he has to live, I wouldn't want anybody to feel like they've got to live up to the expectations of being your team's number one rookie receiver and your number one rookie DB. I just don't think that that's a feasible expectation for any player.

Yeah, like I can see like a red zone package. I think like Andy, like I know the chiefs aren't going to get him. He's going to get trapped well before that. But like Andy Reid would be, the perfect offensive coach for that to leverage that ability and his ability with the ball in his hands. He's basically doing it with Xavier Worthy, just spoon-feeding him targets

and trying to get that 40-2 speed out into space. I did want to ask though, like if you separated him as a prospect, just look at him as a corner, look at him as a receiver separately, where would you see him going in the draft as just if he gave up playing cornerback?

Obviously, like, corner, that's what he's going to play in the NFL. He's probably going to be a top five picks. We have our answer there. But with as a receiver top 15 or is he a first round prospect or is maybe a day two guy? I would say if McMillan and Burden feel pretty clear as our top two receivers in this class, I would say that he's right. He's probably about even with burden, if not ahead of him. Again, just because we're talking about just like some of the raw traits,

he just has a use of his athleticism that's really rare, right? And it shows up on film in a way that's undeniable, even if you're trying to pick nits in his game. game at wide receiver. And maybe you can say that maybe you take the chance on him in the top 15 as a receiver. I just think that as a corner is so clear that that that's the top five pick. Yeah. That's the top five pick. That's the top eight pick at worst.

Top 15 for me at receiver. And I still think the ceiling for him at receiver is maybe a little bit lower than what it could ever be at corner. Yeah, yeah. Like especially at corner, I feel like he's a sure thing. Like just how he progressed even from Jackson State to college. That first year with Colorado, he's just like a playmaker who was not going off instinct, but he was making a lot of plays and taking a lot of chances.

And then this last year, we kind of saw him refine his game and really solidify himself as the best quarterback in this group, at least in my opinion. And receiver, I think that applies. Like his ability to just play football. Some people can just play football. And he's almost like the anti-DK Metcalf where you throw the ball at the catch point. He's going to find a way to catch that ball. He's going to get it.

Yeah. Especially if it's third or fourth down, like some of those games, Colorado, of they were like down bad and they just needed a play and they just threw it up to Travis Hunter and every single time. Shador threw some balls. He had no business throwing to Travis Hunter. No business whatsoever. Just because it was Travis Hunter.

And he made him look smart. And there's a reason why Shador is still a first round prospect because he was making those plays. My question is, is there any chance? If you were Tennessee, would you take them with the top pick overall? No, because there's too much like top in potential like franchise changing talent in the trenches to me. like I don't care what the stress reaction thing is for Abdul-Carter. I think the news is that he's still going to test at his pro day.

So I'm assuming that to mean that this injury can't get any worse and it probably will stand to be just fine by the time training camp comes around. We talked about Wilts Campbell. We talked about Armand Membo as tackles and those are not the only two guys that can, you know, those are not the only two guys in the conversation that could be franchise change and talents or foundational pieces at premium positions. I'm not taking him. one overall, but that's not to say that he's not like in the conversation as the best overall

player in this class. I think that that's where the positional value stuff comes into play a bit. Even if he was a full-time corner, I would probably have him maybe third, fourth pick, right? Just depending on what happens with the Giants. But no, I'm not taking him number one overall. And that says nothing about, that's not to say there's anything wrong with him as a player. I just think that there are other positions that I'm more intrigued in with the top one, top two picks in this draft before I'm thinking about corner.

Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm trying to think back through the past couple of drafts or like recent history, maybe the last 10 of which corner I would take first overall. And the only one that I could think

was maybe Jalen Ramsey out of the last decade. And that's a stretch with how strong that draft class was. I don't know about that one. But you mentioned Abdul Carter. That brings us to our next, our last winner, actually.

And that's just draft steals in general, the draft steel industrial complex. Like, I feel like when you have a shaky, quarterback group, but you have a lot of quarterback needy teams. You have a shaky wide receiver team, and we know our wide receiver class, we know how many teams love wide receivers and always need a wide receiver. And then you have these other positions just of great

depth, especially at defensive line. I feel like we're going to have a lot of surprising guys kind of fall down the first round, and we're going to see some contenders end up with some guys that we thought maybe could have gone in the top 15. So I wanted to talk to you specifically about the D-line class. You talked about Abdul-Carter. We also have Mason Graham. We have James Pierce, Jr., We have Shamar Stewart who tested really well with Michael Williams and then Walter Nolan out of Ole Miss. There's a lot of dudes that can go in the first round.

And I'm wondering, how do you see them kind of falling in the first round? Like if you had to put them into tiers into like top five, top 10, mid-round, and then end of the first round, how would you kind of divide this class? Especially those guys I just named, those top prospects. I would say guys like Mason Graham, I would say. Are you a Mason Graham or Abdul Carter guy? I know they play different positions. I'm Abdul Carter. Okay. I'm Abdul Carter just because the production was so out of this world for a guy

just got moved to that position full time this season. Right. Like I just think the projection for him is so safe. I think that we differ on who the top corner in this class is to me. I look at that as well, Johnson. Like, I look at him and I think that like there's no reason why he can't be Sauce Gardner in the NFL, right? He's got the size.

He's got the speed. He's got the length. I think he plays really, really well in man coverage. His tape over the last two years has been strong. He's probably a top 10 pick if he were draft eligible last season when Michigan won the national title just because of how well he plays in coverage. I think it's really fascinating to me. Like, I don't know if I have tears built out clearly yet,

but I'm really interested with the guy like Walter Nolan, and I would say Jalen Walker as well, right? Because these are guys who have not yet flashed. Shamar Stewart, I think definitely belongs in this conversation as well. these are guys who have not yet shown that they have a true down-to-down winning way to get to the quarterback every single play, right? Especially with like Walker, right? Jalen Walker is kind of like a tweener type. It's a little bit of we're watching his film.

The production is not all the way there. Part of that is just kind of inherent to the way that Georgia runs their defense because of what they do at fronts. But I do think that for each of those guys, and maybe this is just me being more optimistic about Front Seven talent in general. and the way that I look at the draft, if I'm in the early teens, right, and we're just in best player available mode, if I'm Miami, if I'm Dallas, if I'm Atlanta, if I'm Arizona, all those guys, like those are the kind of guys I'm going to take a chance on just to see if that athleticism can pop into something. And we've seen edge rushers over the last few drafts be able to hit the league and apply their athleticism in a way that we don't always see at the college game because the sport is so different. I have a lot of trust at those. guys can get to the league and splash early. So those are probably the players that I'm most interested in. It's kind of those mid-tier tweener types. Jahad Campbell is not a tweener, but he's also kind of that mid-round,

early-teens type of player. I think that anybody in that range from 11 to 11 to 17, if you're looking for defense, you're probably going to find an impact player in this class. Yeah. So would you say this is more of like a deep class or like, or is it a top heavy class where there's some blue chip prospects at the top, but you're not really getting into it in the second and third rounds. Or do you think, like, in the second and third rounds,

you could find some gems, some potential gems? Because I almost feel like listening to you talk about it, like if I am one of those teams in the middle, in the teens, and I have all these issues, like if I'm the Cowboys or the Dolphins where we've been to the playoffs, but it's clear that we're still so far away from making the jump to Super Bowl contendership, that maybe I take a step back,

let some other team trade up for a defensive line, because we know teams love to trade up for defensive linemen in particular, and then kind of accrued draft capital and go from there. Or do you think this is a class where I need to be drafting one of these guys in the first round or else I'm going to be left without a top prospect? I think the gap for the top 15 to 18 defensive prospects in this class is much wider than it has been in years past. So I would not be comfortable letting guys like Abdul. Well, obviously, Abdul-Card is going to be a top pick, right?

I want you to send, but even like a Michael Williams, right? To me, I'm not letting a guy like that get past me because the next opportunity we get to draft an edge, that guy's not going to have anywhere near the physical profile that Williams has. We talked about it with Walker. We talked about it with Stewart. We talked about it with Nolan. So it definitely applies with all those guys. Even guys like Benjamin Morrison at Corner who we didn't get to see a lot of in 2024 because

of the injury. You can go back and watch his tape. That's the number one type of corner, right? You don't want to miss out on those guys because most of those players are going to be going in the first round in this class, I would not be surprised at all to see a big run on defense in the middle of the first round. I think that you're going to see, obviously, in the war, we talked about Malachi Starks is still a first round prospect to me. We talked about Will Johnson. We talked about Travis Hunter. I think that they're, even at the linebacker position, Carson Swisinger is another

guy who should be a first round type of prospect at linebacker. I don't think that, I don't think you can wait in this class. I think in past drafts, last year was about corners and not a whole lot else to me with the defensive class. This year, you got a lot of top-end talent spread evenly at each position in the top three to five at each position group. But after that, I don't think that you're going to be as happy with what you'd be leaving the draft with. If I'm a first round, if I have a first-round pick or if I'm at the back-end, back-in of the first round, high end of the second round, and I can trade up to get into those high-20s to be able to get whatever defensive prospect is still hanging around at that point, I would definitely be looking to do so because I don't think that

that level of player is still available after the top 25 to 30 in this class. And this is really a great offseason for any team looking for defensive linemen because beyond the draft, I know Miles Garrett is getting traded. At least Andrew Barry, the Brown GM, is adamant. Like, we're not trading him. And Miles Garrett, to his credit, seems to be digging in and be like, I don't, even if you pay me, I don't really want to stay. But then you have Harold Landry, the Titans granted him permission to seek a trade.

like a dozen people were granted permission to seek a trade this last week. For someone that was writing a trade market preview is very annoying to have, I was just adding people to the list every freaking hour. But Harold Landry, does he excite you at all? I think he's the most realistic trade option. I looked at, like, I watched a little bit of the tape. I dug through some of the numbers and got to say, very concerning. A lot of like the unstable metrics he, he's doing just fine,

but the stable metrics like pass rush win rate, especially in like true dropback situations, not good and a lot of cleanup pressures and a lot of longer sacks on his resume. Yeah, I mean, and saying, I'm saying no in comparison to what we just talked about with this draft class. If the choices trade away a mid-round,

you know, a third round pick, a fourth round pick, you know, to get in a guy like Harold Landry, who's probably just going to be more about adding to your past rush rotation to being a featured guy. I'm not looking to do that more so than I am trying to get, trying to get Shamar Stewart on my roster if I can, or trying to take a chance on James Pierce,

who obviously has been a lot of conversations just about, you know, off-field stuff. And I think that more will probably be revealed on that. We'll get more clarity on what we've heard so far in terms of work ethic, in terms of attitude, and why that affected his production so much in his last year at Tennessee, knowing how high-profile a name he was coming into this season. I'd much rather take a chance on those guys

than going to get a veteran that, like you said, especially with Landry, has had unstable production over the years, has had injury issues over the years, even in the free agency class, right? Like, you can go bring in Chase Young, and he's going to be an effective starting caliber player. But if the choice is taking Chase Young so we don't draft a guy in the first round at that position

or taking a chance on one of these young guys hitting early in their careers, I think I'm taking a swing on a rookie coming into the NFL for this specific offseason. It does seem like that's where the league is trending, especially with the edge players, is instead of just looking for production, you're looking at guys that can really wreck a game. I feel like what Houston has done and getting Will Anderson. I feel like he was like the first guy that was like, yeah, we need more guys like this because there was a lot of question marks about them trading up for him.

And we're seeing some of these like pocket pushers and these guys that kind of like sacks come to them are kind of being devalued now in the NFL. So I'm with you. I would take a big swing. I would just, we saw these guys, some of these guys working at, like Shamar Stewart,

take a swing on him, especially after how he tested. And maybe it works out. James Pierce, like a lot of our buddies are low on James Pierce. I know he had some production questions this last year. I do all my draft takes, or my early draft take so far

because I haven't dug into the film like at the other positions outside of quarterbacks based on college football 25, the video game. James Pierce was a monster. James Pierce is a good. Guy. Yeah.

If you're doing the Brick Johnson scouting method, then James Curtis is 100% the guy. I have Brick Johnson's draft board already teed up if he's basing it off of Madden and in college football. He's Millrow, number one quarterback because Jaylor is unstoppable. Overpowered as hell. Quashire on Judkins, that spin move in college football, that's going to get him drafted in New York. And James Pierce is another guy that's probably high on Brick Johnson. That's why I forgot. I totally forgot about it.

It's so funny that that guy has a large influence over the Jets offseason. That's going to wrap it up. Those are our winners and losers from the combine. Is there anything we miss? Anybody you wanted to talk about that caught your eye over the week? Besides Jordan Shulton, Ian Rappaport, of course? No, I think you talked about Ted McMillan testing, right? There's a lot of pro-day stuff that I'm probably leaving this combine.

I'm more interested in what the pro-days look like. And that doesn't always occur for me. sometimes it's like, I will just take whatever the product is in indie, the guys who aren't testing whatever, you know, you kind of shove you, I trust the feeling more than what we see with the workouts in general. But I want to see what the pro days are like, especially for some of these offensive guys, a wide receiver position for sure, interior offensive line. I'm really interested to kind of dig into that part of this draft class because I don't know if it's been as as sexy at that position as it's been in the last couple of years. And then tight end as well,

right like i think those are a really strong combine for the tight ends um this off season and i want to see if they can go ahead and replicate that again at the pro day level if they do participate that's good that can end up having a big influence on how the first round plays out right is positions like safety positions like tight end positions like running backs players at positions that are not traditionally taken high in the draft right these are not traditional first round types of positions those are those are the kinds of players where if you're in the teams again if you're Indianapolis, if you're Atlanta, if you're Cincinnati, if you're Tampa Bay and you're trying to make a leap from fringe contenders to solid contender in the league again, they might

take swings on players like that and that can end up changing the draft board for a lot of teams that are drafting after them. So I would say that that's what I'm most interested in is kind of like up the spine of the field, what we see from interior defenders, interior blockers, tight-ins, running backs and safeties. Maybe we should have made pro days a winner because it does feel like this is the most important pro day year ever, just based on all of these players that didn't participate in the combine, didn't test. But it's almost that season. It's almost pro-day season. We also have free agency starting next week. We have the start of the new league year. The draft is only, what is it, two months away now. It's all happening. It's officially the off-season.

It didn't take long to transition from Super Bowl to the off-season, but we have made it, and we're going to be potting all throughout. I'm sure we're going to have plenty of emergency pods based on the last couple of off seasons that have been very active. I think the trade market's going to be active this year. I think free agency is going to be a little while with some guys that you've never heard of getting paid. And it's, as we've discussed throughout this podcast, like, it's going to be a fascinating draft class to break down over the next month or so. We're going to have you covered. So stay on this feed.

Look for the pods. That's going to do it for this week, though. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing the episode. Also, thank you to Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramqvall for additional production supervision. That's it for today's show. We will see you next week.