The Ringer NFL Show - Not All Touches Are Created Equal, Sorry Amari, and the Sony Michel Pity Party | The Dantasy Football Podcast (Ep. 328)

Episode Date: October 23, 2018

The Ringer's Danny Heifetz and Danny Kelly offer up some “Initial Advice” on a few must-add running backs (02:00) before discussing this week’s waiver-wire fallout following the Amari Cooper trade (10:45). They wrap up the show with a debate about Alvin Kamara’s value among top fantasy running backs (26:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly. One shiny podcast will be joined from Friday, November 2nd to Wednesday, November 7th, where Tate, Titus, and Nephew Kyle are traveling to Columbus, Ohio, Louisville, Kentucky, Bloomington, Indiana, and Indiana, and Chicago, Illinois to tip off the college basketball season. You can find links to tickets on the ringers Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Dany Sea Football podcast. My name is Danny Heifitz, and I'm joined, as always, by my co-host and co-danny. Danny Kelly, how you doing, D.K. Man, I'm doing well. How are you doing? I am great. Want to just dive into initial advice this week? Yeah, let's do this. Any odds at Batman music? All right, D.K., who's your first dark night of the week, DK?

All right, Marlon Maga, the Colts, kind of taken over that backfield, obviously, now. He's only 53% owned in ESPN, 55 and Yahoo, so he's out there in a lot of leagues. I think he's a must-out at this point. The Colts offense has kind of picked up some steam, obviously. you know, they're sort of an inconsistent, you know, unreliable offense at times. But against a really good

Bill's defense this last week, they looked good. I mean, Luck's arm has been looking stronger. They had a very good run game, which was kind of missing from their offense over the last few weeks. Mack had 19 carries, 126 yards, a touchdown, added a couple of catches for 33 yards of another touchdown.

He just looked better than anything that the Colts have had in that back field. And I think, you know, again, they're going to be in, I guess, passing game scripts probably most of the time, but he can still factor in those in those games as a pass catcher. And so going up against the Raiders this week, I think he's a good buy option. Yeah, I feel that. Would you cut Heinz going forward?

Do you think that he's worth rostering still? I mean, I guess you could, if you have like a spot that you're not using, you can hold on to him just in case Matt gets hurt again or whatever, because he's had, I believe it was a hamstring injury that. I have to have a couple of games. But at this point, it looks like Mac is clearly the leader in that backfield. He had 37 snaps. Heinz only 17.

Wilkins 15. So we had Heim's actually in the Ringer League, and we dropped them. I mean, at this point, there's just not enough volume in that backfield to really make the backup guy worth rostering, I don't think. No, I agree. And I still am not huge that the cults will ever have rushing that's consistent week-to-week, although Mac certainly seems great. people that I was very excited about actually before this Cooper trade and now feel even a little stronger. Jalen Richard, not Richard, as I learned the hard way, Jalen Richard and Doug Martin, no, I actually knew that one. So Marshall Lynch is injured, he's a groin injury, which is, yeah, he's a groin injury and actually is actually a consideration to go on injured reserve, believe it or not.

So Doug Martin, who obviously was with the Bucks for a long time, is in theory maybe the better person situated to take some of those rushing carries. but Richard has just been, as full-time Craig noted, just an absolute safety valve for Derek Carr, who has been targeting all over near the line of scrimmage. That old way we thought of Jarvis Landering catching all his passes around the line of scrimmage. It's basically what Derek Carr does all the time. It's amazing if you look at his game charts on Next Gen stats.

It's just all just sprayed right around the line of scrimmage. And Richard's just going to catch a ton of passes. He's already playing about 36% of snaps. Doug Martin was getting 13, and Marshall Lynch was about 50. So even Richard just gets like 50. or even a third of the percent of what Lynch misses. He is actually probably a flex like every week.

He's been super consistent. I think more than eight points like four of the six weeks he's played. And it's so high floor and that if he just gets the snap increases, I think he's a super safe bet. So I would definitely want him and I want him over Doug Martin. Oh yeah, absolutely. I agree. I mean, in a PPR league especially,

I think he is a must out at this point because, I mean, the Raiders are not going to be jumping. It doesn't seem like the Raiders are going to be jumping out to many early leads and then like, on their on their run game they're going to be passing a lot they're going to be behind and I think that's exactly when richard has been a factor for the Raiders this year and like you said the the floor is that he's going to get like six or seven targets every game and so yeah I like him going forward I mean he's obviously not going to be a top guy he's not going to be

as good as lunch I don't think but in a ppr league he has a value just because like you said that offense is just so checked down heavy they can't protect car and I think he's just relying on those outlets at the backfield a lot. So moving over to the 49ers, this is, again, an offense that's in flux. Early in the season, we liked McKinnon, and then we liked Breda, and now Breda's hurt again. So Bita came in last week, often injury,

re-hurt his ankle. Going forward, I think that's something to monitor. It sounds like it could be a multi-week injury. We don't know for sure yet, but Morris, Alfred Morris behind him has not been effective. So Rahim Mosterd is kind of the next guy to pick up on that offense. It's actually Moster. Mosterr.

Oh, yeah. No, I have no idea. I think it's Monster. I don't know. Shanahan's going to run the ball. I mean, that's not going to change. That offense is a heavy run and run and throw-on play action type of an offense. And so I think he's actually going to be at least for the short term, a viable starting option for some people if they're looking for some running back help.

He's looked pretty fast. I mean, he's a former track star, elusive guy. Last week, he had 22 snaps. Morris had 20 snaps. Breed had five snaps, but he had seven rushes, 59 yards, caught four balls for 19 yards. That was when they were way behind trailing the Rams. Going up against the Cardinals this week,

it's a much, much better matchup. I think he could have some volume. So, yeah, he's definitely a pickup this week. Yeah, I don't know. Most air, most start, my start, I don't know, but the Niners need a restart, and Alfred Morris is a free agent at the end of the year and he's old and I don't know.

And Mostair is a must start. Exactly. Wow. It was right there for that. That's why I got hired. That's why I got hired. But yeah, I don't see why if a young guy's outperforming old ass Alfred Morris, why Morris would outplay him.

It doesn't really make sense. I think the further down the stretch we go, the less relevant Morris will be even if Brady's hurt. Moving on, I'm so excited for this. Like, this is like joy. This is like candy. As many people probably know, the Patriots are playing the bills on Monday Night Football.

And I saw it. So the Pat's defense and special teams is owned in half of leagues a little less, depending where you look. And the Patriots are going to take on Nathan Peterman and or Derek Anderson on Monday Night Football. I think we heard Derek Anderson as the starter. Anderson, all right. I believe we saw it on Twitter. How long did it take into this Bill's game before Peterman started warming out?

This is just unbelievable. Anderson's basically been on the team for three weeks, and there was a coup internally. because they were so worried about what would happen if they played Peterman again. But as Aaron Schott, speaking of last names you can't get right, Aaron Schatz, of football outsiders pointed out, he tweeted, congrats to the Buffalo Bills, who have the worst offensive DVOA, which is efficiency per play, ever tracked through seven games and by a lot.

I think that goes back into like the late 80s. I can't remember exactly when the first year they started doing DVOA. But yeah, it's been several decades. It's the worst offense ever. you could argue through seven games. As full-time Craig pointed out, Todd Gurley has seven more points than the Buffalo Bills this year.

I can't really think of something. Who could have seen this coming? The fun part about this is it doesn't really matter how many fantasy points you're down going in your matchup. If you were down 30 points going to Monday at football and you're the Pat's defense, you got this. You really will never feel out. So pick up the Pat's day.

The MVP of the fantasy season so far has been streaming whoever the bills are playing, streaming that defense. I think I've done that the last couple of weeks in a couple different leagues for the Colts and the Texans, and I got like 20 points full times. It's just like printing money. Especially because the only one they screwed up was against the Vikings, which were definitely owned in your league.

Right. So yeah, I like this. This is an every week, I think, you know, thing. Just follow whoever the bills are playing and pick up that defense, and that's who you stream that week. One last guy this week. Danny Mendolla, the Dolphins. This is, he's had a couple of really strong weeks actually in a row. 11 targets, eight catches 59 yards in week six. Seven targets, six catches, 84 yards in a touchdown last week.

He played 55 out of 56 snaps last week. The dolphins are just really banged up. Albert Wilson, who I was getting excited about kind of going forward, just the way he was able to pick up yards after the catch. He's out indefinitely, potentially for the rest of the season. Kenny Stills is hurt now. It doesn't look like he's going to play. they get the Texans this week

Devante Parker's on the trade block slash in the doghouse he was inactive last week he's going to play this week but I think that Brock Oswald I probably trust Amandola and he's run most of his routes out of the slot 81% of his snaps in the last two weeks come from the slot per pro football

focus 63 routes out of the slot the next closest guy in that category is Albert Wilson went nine so he's getting the vast majority of their slot looks and that is a route. I think that Osweiler's going to lean on going forward. And so he's a kind of sneaky, you know, flex type of guy.

And at least until the dolphins kind of figure out what they're doing with their receiver position. You see Devante Parker's agent called Adam Gase incompetent. Probably not going well. Yeah. That's a good one. Process of elimination. And then someone asked Gase if they were playing Parker this week.

And Gase is essentially like, well, we don't have anyone else. So yes. Well, on that note. Before we move on, let's take a quick break. Football season is underway, and DK.K. already has major regrets about his season-long fantasy teams. I'm sure many of you feel the same way if you took DK.'s advice. You spend all-offseason researching and getting excited for the draft, and then comes the pain, which is why we're so excited to be playing on Fandul this season.

Over at Fandul, you'll get the excitement of researching and building your team each week, regardless of the outcome. Plus, Fandul has never been more fun or easy to play. We've been playing in the Gridiron Pickham contest every week. It's a free contest where all you need to do is pick winners, no spreads, and then $10,000 to split amongst the top pickers. Trust me, if you're not a fantasy expert, then Fandul is clearly the place to play. Plus, new users get a $5 bonus when they make their first deposit.

So come play with us at fandul.com slash the ringer. That is fanduil.com slash the ringer. All right, DK, we're going to run through a little waiver wire, lightning round right now. Obviously, we don't know your guys' leagues listening right now quite as well as you do about whether someone's worth picking up,

throwing your lineup, or just keeping an eye on your waivers. But we have thoughts. We definitely have a lot of thoughts right now after a couple injuries on Sunday and then this Amara Cooper deal. So, should we start with that Amara Cooper deal, D.K.? Yeah. So what is the fallout here? I think, obviously,

their offense takes a big hit. You're taking a talented player out of it. But someone's got to pick up to slack. I think Jordy Nelson's at this point likely I think what was he 60 or 70% owned at this point so he's not necessarily

going to be out there to pick up he's the guy that might get a little boost in the fantasy world because of that I think Martavis Bryant is another one that could be worth a speculative ad at this point just based on the fact that they're going to be passing and the Raiders

they're going to be behind and they're going to be passing and so potentially Bryant has that upside. He's kind of like another one of these touchdown dependent deep threats that could kind of pop at any point but he's a deep deep flex option I think going forward

I'm probably not going to be picking him up in any leagues but I think he is the guy that you kind of circle for you know if you're already we already talked about Jalen Richard but if past that I think Brian could be the guy yeah I'm not super sold that there will be a replacement in Oakland's lineup actually worth playing

Brian might be that guy but I would be shocked if you pick him up this week and then two weeks from now he's totally worth I mean, think about how frustrating it was to roster Amari Cooper. I mean, we've talked about that all year. Exactly. I don't think Brian is going to give you much confidence on game day. No, I couldn't agree more. It's not like people are super relying on Cole Beasley or anything in Dallas.

But flipping, this devastated me as someone relying on. So Sony Michelle obviously injured his leg on Sunday. He was carted off. It's not as considered as serious as it seemed. It seems he's week to week with. an MCL issue as opposed to being out for the year, which is relatively good news. In his place, Ken John Barner played. He had 10 carries for 36 yards with Michelle out.

They don't really have backups at the moment because obviously Jeremy Hill and Burkhead are out for the year. I kind of just think they'll sign Mike Gillisley, who's been hanging around them, and they've just been in contact for three weeks, like doing a dance. I really think Gillisley will be on the roster by the time Sunday comes around. Either one of these guys is super worth. a roster, maybe even flexing if they play just because even 70% of what Sony Michelle was doing is so valuable. And I'm not, I really think their matchup independent in terms of the Patriots running game,

even if you're not nearly as good, the volume they were getting is crazy. I think James White now, even if he picks up just marginally better, is hugely more valuable. He's definitely a top-ton guy to me. But I think Barner Gillesley is definitely worth grabbing. Yeah, I think I looked it up yesterday in the three games before. last week, the Patriots are averaging like 34 rush attempts per game. And obviously, Sony Michelle was getting the lion share lows. And then James White was sort of the pass catching back, the secondary option or whatever,

the complimentary piece. Obviously, I mean, James White has been a top 10 running back in fantasy this year. But there's just no backup on that roster and the same mold as Michelle. And so, yeah, I think Gillisly, he might be an option worth picking up even before he gets signed. I don't know when they're going to sign him, but Gillesley was super talented, was I think, the number one rusher by DVOA in 2016 got just planted on New England's bench

after a fumble, and for no reason just hasn't really played football since. We don't really know what went on there? It's... Didn't he get picked up by the sands and then fumble and then got cut? Wouldn't be shocking if he was really good, but it also, he might just do literally nothing. On the flip side, another guy got hurt

on Sunday. D.K., you want to talk about that? Yeah, Lashon McCoy, it didn't look good. It was like his ankle, leg, and then also he injured his head on the plague. He could be out for an extended period of time. Chris Ivory is the next man up. I mean, and we're talking about, we already talked about how the bill's offense is just absolutely atrocious. But, I mean, if you're looking for, if you're desperate for a flex option running back or whatever in a buy week,

ivory, you could do worse than ivory, I think. 13 rushes to 81 yards last week, six targets three catches, 25 yards. So, I mean, he's had a little bit of production. But again, I mean, I'm mostly staying away from this bill's offense is just historically bad. They can't move the ball. They play in the Patriots this week. There are certain levels of fantasy confidence you can give, and you could do worse, is... Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and play these guys that you want.

That's actually a good segue to the next player I got in Mike, Calvin Benjamin. He was kind of a popular late-round pick, I think, before. for the season just based on the fact that he was going to be the number one receiver in that offense. He still is the number one receiver. But obviously over the first few weeks, like their offense was just a mess. Josh Allen was terrible. Nathan Peterman only throws picks. With Derek Anderson, you know, there's a little bit of familiarity there between Benjamin and Anderson. They both played together before. He's actually been targeted 11 times. Six catches 11 yards in last two weeks. Last week he had four for 71. So again, I mean, it's like one of those

things where you can do worse potentially, you know, there's always the goose sake potential, but he is the number one guy in that passing offense. And so, you know, if they're playing from behind against the Patriots, which they're almost, you know, surely to be doing this week, then there's some volume potential there. So I'll say that. I'm not picking him up, but there's some volume potential. Bunk from the Wire and Omar once had a conversation where they agree that a man must have a code. Obviously we deal with numbers here, but there also has to just at some point

be about pride. And if I am relying on on Kelvin Benjamin in my lineup, you have to draw the line somewhere. I literally draw it. Now, there's a cool question. Where is the line go? For me, literally it's Calvin Benjamin.

That's the line. Put it right there. Fair enough. Can't do it. Can't coach him. Next for me, Ronald Jones on the Bucks plugged him potentially

as a sleeper in case Peyton Barber lost the job. Dirk Cutter then promptly reiterated Peyton Barber has the job. And then Peyton Barber got hurt at the end of the game this week. It looks like that's what happened. So that's the thing. We're still waiting. Exactly. So Dirk Cutter

was asked how injured he is. He says, we'll release an injury report on Wednesday. Probably he's fine. There's certainly a chance that it's actually serious and they're hiding it or whatever. Well, I guess not hiding it, but you know what I'm saying. On that off chance, it might be worth rostering him, possibly, if

you have like a very end of the waiver thing and all the good ones are going to get snatched up. Maybe on the off chance, Barbara's hurt. Otherwise, I probably feel Barbara has this job unlocked, though, sadly. Yeah, so Barber's snap counts have gone down every week. So there's maybe this thought that the torches being passed to Jones. Obviously, Jones was a second round pick. The team invested quite a bit in him.

The reports during training camp in the preseason were all super negative. But he's managed to work his way onto the field. you had 29 snaps last week. That's actually third among the Buccaneers running backs. Barber at 35. Chuck was Rogers 30 and then Jones 29. But he had six carries, 13 yards and a touchdown. He caught a pass for 15 yards.

This is more of, I think if you're going to pick him up, it's more of like a down the stretch type of pickup. I don't necessarily, I'm not playing him this week. But it is one of those things where he was highly drafted running back. And, you know, the team invested a lot in him. So maybe they want to try and get him involved before, before too long here. And the buck's offense, to be fair,

I mean, he's not exactly a pass catch catcher. He didn't catch past as a USC. He's basically been a better receiver in the NFL and the very limited time he's played than he was in all of college. But I believe the bucks are basically on pace with the greatest show on turf rams. Yeah.

Which says more about the arrow we're in, but somebody would keep in mind when you think about the bucks are literally on pace with Kurt Warner and Torrell and Marshall Falk. So, you know, that's when I think of Peyton Barber. Ronald Jones. I think of Marshall Falk, personally.

Yeah, yeah. The next. me, I'm just going to, yeah, Geronimo Allison, a preseason love of mine. He's been out with a concussion for a few weeks. He's been replaced by a name I certainly can't. MVS, Valdes Scantling. Nice. Yeah, right, I got that.

Yeah, there you go. I think if Allison comes back this week and is healthy and things look good on the practice report, it depends on injuries on Thursday and Friday. He's probably owned in your league, but if he got dropped, I would definitely add him back because him and Rogers have had a fantastic rapport. I hate to always say this, but like James Jones-esque and kind of like he really has... Or sweatshirts? Hooded sweatshirts?

You were James Jones, he swore hooded sweatshirts under his pants. Oh, yeah. Wow, good call. I was thinking how James Jones was the one who tweeted out the news. James Jones broke the news that Aaron Rogers signed that deal. It wasn't Adam Schefter or anything. I remember that. James is the Packers Beat Reporter.

Anyway, so what I'm saying is Geronimo Allison's going to be the next Packers Beat reporter. And, no, there's a certain threat. with Rogers that you just have the rapport with him and then on those things where he's doing the plays broken and he finds you. Geronimo has that. He's totally worth someone dropped him in your league. I love Geronimo Allison. I think Cobb is on that level too. If Randall Cobb has dropped in your league at some point, I still think he's worth just to roll the dice pick up because, like you said, there's just so much volume in that offense. Cobb, he picked up 37 targets in three games he played this year.

He's been hurt. And coming back from that, I think it's a hamstring injury. It's always a little bit iffy. But I think I would put Cobb and Allison in kind of the same category of just, you know, speculative ad to see if it pans out. Maybe I would just head over heels, and this is probably just grossly ignorant to say. But I think I'd actually take Geronimo the rest of the season over Cobb. That's probably just nuts.

That's fair. I think they're just getting better. But we'll see. Well, again, it depends on how healthy he is and how he's recovered. You got another receiver, D.K.? Yeah, Traquan Smith of the Saints. With Ted Ging going to the IR, the number two receiver position in that offense is kind of upper grabs. Smith played 52 snaps last week.

That was more than any other skill position besides Michael Thomas. He's caught six passes, 155 yards, and two touchdowns over last week. He was kind of quiet against the Ravens. But there's just the upside there in the sense that you're in that Drew Breeze-led passing offense. And if they're getting in a game where they're behind, can throw the ball. So I think Smith, you know, he's owned only in 17%

of leagues right now, and so he is a at least pickup. I picked him up last week when I saw that Ginn went down. I'm going to hold on to him for a bit to kind of just see how it all pans out. But I like the upside there. No, I feel that. That's a popular guy. Who's your last guy? I have one

here. I'm actually excited about this. I actually was very psyched to talk about this, and then full-time Craig also recommended him, and it felt like destiny. All right, I'm just to throw this one out here. Here are the NFL league leaders in targets this season. This is before Monday Night football, but all the whole

NFL. Number one is Adam Thielen with 89. Number two is Jarvis Landry with 82. Do you know who number three is DK? Who? Zach Ertz is number three in the entire league in targets at 78. Zach Ertz is the number one receiver if you heard

from Michael Kendrick's on Hard Knocks before he was arrested for insider trading allegedly on charges of. He was saying that he's the number one receiver. Quote, he doesn't want the smoke about Zach Kurtz. But the point is he's their number one receiver. His backup, Dallas Goddard, is owned in under 5% of leagues in Yahoo and ESPN. Dallas Goddard, who once again scored a touchdown this week,

is just as much of a touchdown-dependent kind of gamble as Antonio Gates, full-time Craig's middle school nemesis, Austin Hooper, Uzoma, Uzoma, CJ, Uzo, your beloved, C.J. Which I can't say. Dallas Goddard is just as much of this kind of boom or bust tight end that tight end has become. But if Ertz misses any time, Dallas Goddard's probably a top five guy, maybe better than Grock. I had Nick Chubbs stashed in a few leagues this year. And when we saw that Carlos Hyde got traded, I was just like ecstatic.

Yeah. Obviously his first game was a little hit and miss. But yeah, I mean, it's kind of just like these are the guys you stash. If you have a spot, you're not using it. Like, if you already have your- No, I disagree. I don't think you should have two tight ends at all, unless you some have two great tight ends. I think that if you have Antonio Gates or someone and they suck,

and you're just getting two or three or four points, and it's so inconsistent, I'd rather have Dallas Goddard. What if you own Zach Hertz? Depends on your roster. I don't think you should live in fear necessarily. But it's certainly not a bad idea if you think you kind of have things on lock and you want to pick them up and just basically handcuff your tight-end. I don't think I would do that with literally any other tight-end.

With him, I would do it. If you have the spot. But I also understand, I don't think that's like a must. But it helps you sleep at night. It does help. Handcuffings become super underrated. It kind of fell out of favor.

You know, this whole analytical generation. And the numbers don't. You know what? Back in my day, the fantasy football, I actually loved when Bill and Matthew Barry had on Bill's pod. And they were talking about,

you know, I was doing fantasy football in the 80s. I was like, I forgot they had it in the 80s. Yeah, by hand. I'm like, wow, they used to be newspapers with box scores.

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ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. All right here. For our last segment right here, we're just going to kind of riff a little bit because this spawned from just planning for the show and we kind of just had a little debate about who are the top running backs. You know, it's around the middle season.

I think it's technically the middle season for most fantasy football regular season, week seven-ish. And we're kind of just like if we were going to reassess from the preseason and going forward, who are the top running backs in that little conversation about, I think specifically Alvin Kamara and how you'd rank him. What's your level of worry at this point? Yeah. So I think, and that just really spun out to who's your top ten right now.

So, Dika, how, what are your tiers right now? I think obviously, I mean, you put Gurley out into the number one. He's like clearly the number one fantasy player. And then Melvin Gordon before he got hurt was was really kind of close in that in that stratosphere. And then I'd say, so I'd say those guys are the clear tier ones. And then going from there, I mean, if you're just looking at the rankings right now, it's like this, and this is for half PPR. James Connor has been super consistent. Alvin Kamara.

Ezekiel Elliott, Cream Hunt. I probably actually maybe move Cream Hunt. No, again, this is probably recancy bias, but Cream Hunt like might be ahead of some of those guys going. forward because the Levion belt thing Clouds Connor. Elliot's been sort of hit and miss week to week but the way that the chiefs are using hunt I think maybe puts him

up like in that Barkley stratosphere where are you with everybody? So I don't really believe in rankings to I mean this is probably a bad thing as a podcast house. I don't really believe in rankings or at least they're not so useful as much as I believe strongly in tiers and the way I think of is I'll slot however many guys knew a tier

and basically I don't really care the way that you would order those people people. But as long as you agree that those are people, and then generally, you're just trying to generally get the right so that you have the right grouping. That's I strongly believe that way about going to pre-draft. So right now, for example, I think Gurley is in his own tier, and it's another way of saying he's an undisputed number one right now.

Untradable too, probably, right? Exactly. And after him, I think I would put Sequin. Sequin and Melvin Gordon are super safe in the second tier. You could probably convince me one of them is. better than the other. I think they're solidly in the second tier, though. If James Connor was going rest of the season, I might even put him in there, but obviously he's not, so it's not a question. And I guess the question really is, who's in that second tier? You got Melvin,

Gordon, Sequin. Zeke Elliott's got a lot of carries, but not really being maximized, not having an interesting season. I don't know if I'd put him there, Kareem Hunt. So would you cut off the second tier there at Sequin and Gordon? I kind of think I would, and then I think I'd throw Alvin Kamara, Elliot, and Kareem Hunt into that third tier, maybe even James White? And I think that's really the crux of it. Is Kamara in that third tier or second?

And then what the hell do you do with Levion Bell? Well, I think a lot of people are worried about Kamara. And so, like, let's look at, let's look at Kamara, you know, through the lens of, like, what is his upside next? This, like, through the end of the season. So last year, and this is a totally different season,

so it's not necessarily applicable for this year. but through seven weeks last season, Kamara had 34 rushes, 250 yards, a touchdown, 28 catches, 209 yards in a touchdown. That was 82 points for PPR, and he was averaging 10 touches a game. Ingram, through those first seven weeks,

had 95 PPR points. He was averaging 18.8 touches a game. So he was clearly the leadback. Camaro was kind of the secondary option or whatever. And then through weeks 8 through 17, Camara scored 238 points in PPR, which was first by far. And that was only on 13. That was only on 13.9 touches a game.

So he was actually still getting out touched by Ingram in the second half from weeks 8 through 17. And Ingram actually finished fifth in PPR points. So I'm just looking at this Saints offense. There's so much, it's just such a huge pie to split up. I mean, even if Ingram and Camara. Continue on. Because like basically everyone's freaking out about Kamara. You know, getting like in week seven, he got outsnapped by Ingram.

Or he outsnap Ingraham by only four. Outtouched him by five. Week six, obviously the Saints featured Ingram a lot more than Kamara. And so I think people are freaking out about Kamara talking about maybe trading him. Personally, I wouldn't do it just because I think, number one, like I said, there's just such a big piece of the pie for Kamar to have, even if it's in a time split. And he was just so, so efficient last year. even if he's not to the level of efficiency last year,

which was a historic level, even if he does express. We can't belabor that too much. We're kind of relitigating what the discussion was in the beginning of the year, which was Camarro literally had the best yardage per touch ever. Ever in NFL history by, if you put in minimum qualifications, by such a crazy margin. That regression was inevitable.

And the question wasn't whether he could keep that up, but whether he would earn more touches when Ingram came back. Then, of course, he actually made us look stupid, and then without Ingram basically kept up that insane pace. Now, Ingram's come back, and he has cut a little bit in, but even more interesting, the thing I don't know, one except Roger Sherman of the Ring or so coming, maybe. Tassum Hill has actually really spelled Drew Breeze more than I think we ever thought.

I mean, he's making, I've never seen anyone, spell Drew Breeze Hallfamer, stay in the game, basically is a motioning tight end to block slash maybe take a read option, and then make a special team's play in a kickoff like three out of like five plays. It's crazy actually how much he's factoring in the red zone and read options with like Mark Ingram.

And I felt Kamara's insane. So he's eating into it a little bit too. Yeah, so that's something we didn't see coming. So I guess, I mean, if I offered you Kamara for Kareem Hunt, what would you say? Man, see that's so tough. I think I would probably say no. Full-time Craig. You have Kamara on your main team, right?

This is the one you care about the most? Yeah. I would trade Alvin Kamara for Sequin Barclay for Cream Hunt. Honestly, maybe even for Ezekiel Elliott. Just not Melvinville and Tuggerl, I think the only people who are untouchable. I just think that Kamara, I mean, right now with Mark Ingram, he's averaging 14 touches a game. And no matter how amazing he is, 14 touches a game can only get you so much. And all these other guys like Seek and Zeke, and they're averaging like 22 plus. Yeah.

It's just a numbers game. I mean, talent-wise, he's probably better than everybody. But, Craig, you made a good point in that if someone in your league loves Kamara and you have Kamara and you're wondering what to do, that Kamara falling off from a top three back to a top 14, even a top 12 back, and you were able to flip him for someone. Maybe a Melvin Gordon owner worried about this hamstring could actually be enough to deliver you a title. Maybe that's the most realistic one. No one has Gurley's trading girly. I imagine no one knows Saquan really wants to trade Seekwan. It's kind of really fun to own.

Obviously, Connor and Bell is like a totally different world. But Melvin Gordon is probably super possible because, I mean, obviously Fournet has been plagued by a hamstring all year. And if someone has Melvin Gordon's terrified of that happened to Melvin Gordon. I just think that Kumar's best case scenario for the rest of the season with Ingram is probably what Kareem Hunt and Sequin are doing right now. That's fair. There's nothing threatening those two guys. And you can bump him down. But would you tread him for Melvin Gordon, even with this hamstring injury?

Yeah. Even if it lingers. So here's where I would push back on purely looking at total touches per game. And obviously, Cream Hunt is a part of this discussion, but not all touches are created equal. Thank you, D.K. The Saints' offense is so much incredibly better than the Giants' offense, or the Cowboys' offense, for instance. The reason I'm really high on Hunt going forward is because, I mean, look at what he did with his touches on. on Sunday night.

I mean, it was like they're getting him in space. They're doing like, you know, they're giving him these amazing screen opportunities. And like, you don't see that with, with Dach or sorry, with Zechial Elliott or with Sequel and Barclay. I mean, they're just like slamming him into the back of the offensive line

and hoping he makes a miracle. And so, I mean, normally, in most cases, I'd say, just like follow the volume. But, like, just the Saints' offense is so good. They have such a good offensive line. they have such a good quarterback. They have so, you know, such a good play caller that it's almost like,

I don't even care that Camaro's not touching it as much just because I think they can do so much more with it. No, I feel that. I'm actually trying to throw together these tiers right now, actually, if we can agree with some dynasty tiers. We got Gurley at one. Tier two, Melvin Gordon, Sequin, and Cream Hunt? Cream Hunt's on the cusp of it. I think you probably want to see him do it a few more weeks, you know, but I would say, Yeah, Gordon, Sequin.

I would still probably put Kamara on tier two. You think Kamar on tier two? Okay. And then tier three would be basically at that point, Zeke Elliott, I mean, RIP to Dalvin Cook and Fournette. So it's Zeke Elliott, Christian McCaffrey. James White?

James White. Oh, I got James White firmly here, maybe even heading the pack. And then from there it gets really interesting. I mean, now we have to talk about, in this conversation, Corwell fell off, RAP to Yeldon.

not, I wouldn't even put David Johnson yet. You kind of suddenly have to talk about Adrian Peterson? Maybe. Probably not. But what do you do with Carlos Hyde? I downgrade him quite a bit going forward. I just think that, well, number one, Fournett's going to come back at some point in theory,

unless we're missing something. Unless he's just going to go to the IR, which I guess is possible. But they're going to have a three-headed monster in that backfield. Hyde was pretty inefficient. in Cleveland, and so not sure he can get more out of less touches in Jacksonville, we'll see. But I would put him...

He was a pure volume. Producers. Okay, so if I forced you to fill out this top ten before we bounce, Gurley's 1, and then Tier 2, 4 is Melvin Gordon, Sequin, Cream Hunt, Alvin Kamara, and maybe even Hunt Camarra in Tier 2 and 1 half. Tier 3 is Zeke, McCaffrey, and James White. That's eight guys.

Who's rounding out your top 10? Oh man, this is tough Or do you have to just build a tier four And then it was in tier four Yeah, there's a huge drop-off at that point It's like a cliff kind of right I guess David Johnson probably deserves to go Wait, where do we put James Connor?

Oh yeah, I forgot about it. Well, actually I guess this is interesting Here's what I think is going to happen I think Levyon comes back After the trade deadline, signs, plays, doesn't get traded, stays with the Steelers And then they give him Both

A lesser workload than he's ever had that is still more than almost anyone else gets, except for Sequin, Melvin Gordon, Gurley. So I think that Levion is probably very quickly a running back one and probably is not as good off the back quickly, but still doesn't matter. And that Connor will still have value. I bet Connor just will sub in enough that he'll still be a flex

because he's talented enough. Nine and ten touches a game, I'm guessing. Yeah. And again, I want to stress that if this happens 10 times, Leveon Bill's straining his hamstring and missing three weeks, two of them. I would not cut Connor on any circumstance, obviously. If Connor would keep going, I'd put him actually in tier three. But I'm saying Leveon's probably a long, David Johnson tier four,

because we don't know if he's actually going to return. So David Johnson and Leveon, I guess. Where do you put Mixon? Because he's missed a few games, but he's been averaging like 17 points and a half point. Off the board. Off the board. If you do mixing, yeah, I guess mixing probably. And who else will be missing at this point?

I mean, that's like it. And then there's a drop off. Well, Sony-Michel's entry actually really really tosses this around because Sony-Michel, actually, I think, is the guy really,

you'd have to have serious conversations about. And then Mark Ingram. I mean, that guy was the RB5 last year. Ingram, Ingram, I think, I'm bummed, because he's definitely,

it seems, Taysome Hill's eating it to him and I think Kumar's eating it in him as well. And then I wouldn't be surprised four weeks from now if we're all talking about how Carrie on Johnson's a top ten back.

Also, Latavius Murray, if Dalvin Cook's just out, every given week that Dalvin Cook's out, Latavis Murray is actually, I probably have him over David Johnson. I've been kidding. Maybe that's super aggressive. That's spicy.

It's a weekly thing. It's not a season thing. But yeah. It's crazy to me that T.J. Yeldon, in half PPR, is a top 10 running back at both points and average points for a week. Like, no one ever talks about T.J. Yeldon. And we're not going to going for it either. It's just kind of funny.

That's all I have to say about that. All right. Well, on that note, should we invite people to? to shred us on Twitter for whatever insanely obvious terrible thing we got wrong about this? I mean, this is an exact science. If you agree, I think people should at me, and if people disagree, I think they should

at Danny B. Kelly for whatever he got wrong. Yeah. Yeah, I'll see you on Friday, DK. Sounds good. We are so excited to be playing on Fandul this football season, especially DK, because most of his teams are done. Over at Fanduel, you get the excitement of researching and building your team each week, regardless of the outcome. Plus, they have

tons of ways to play, like the Gridiron Pickham contest, where you just pick winners, no point spreads, and then $10,000 to split amongst the top pickers. Trust me, if you're not a fantasy expert, then Fandul is clearly the place to play. And new users get a $5 bonus when they make their first deposit, so come play with us at fanduel.com slash the ringer. That is fandul.com slash the ringer.