The Ringer NFL Show - Not-So-Surprising Contenders and the Jon Gruden Experiment | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 345)

Episode Date: November 14, 2018

Belvedere Vodka presents a special NFL crossover episode featuring Ryen Russillo from 'Dual Threat' and Kevin Clark and Robert Mays from 'The Ringer NFL Show' live from Cleopatra’s Barge in Caesars Palace in Las Vegas. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Thanks so much for coming out tonight. This is really cool. It's my first live podcast with the ring. We've got Maze. We've got Kevin Clark. I'm Ryan Rusillo. It's a dual threat NFL ringer show hybrid. And we have a lot of fun stuff, ready to go.

Probably go about an hour or so. Some topics here. We've all mapped it out. But I think the most important thing, because they made this happen, is thanking the people at Belvedere. And obviously, thanking all you guys for coming out here. And a quick story, back when I used to bartend, and I used to argue, I think in two,

2001, I was like, why don't more teams just hire closers? Look, it worked out like 15 years later. Baseball joke, bad crowd. But we bartended, we love Belvedere because it tasted like you were actually having a vodka drink. So we're going to hand it over to Brian. He's going to check in a couple times tonight. And we'll be good to go. So thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks so much for having us. Of course, it's always really important that we're involved in so many great things like this particular podcast. And of course, you haven't already try out to Juliet. a cocktail at the Monty Cristo. If not, just have a great time tonight.

Let's have a good time. Hang loose and let's talk some sports right now. All right. Sounds good. And I think we're going to be doing some kind of giveaways, right? Yes. Okay. All right. There you go. Some people, there's probably some dates here

be like, if I don't get a shirt out of this. All right, here's where I want to start. And hopefully we're all awake after a giant. How about a Giants win in prime time? 20 plus points. Whenever I look at the year, halfway through it, I start by going, okay, how many teams could win the Super Bowl were you in the say, how the fuck did that happen? Give me your teams right now that wouldn't be a surprise. I mean, I think the four are pretty clear. I mean, if you would do a final four, it's New England, New Orleans, Kansas City, and the Rams.

I mean, those four are pretty clear. I think that what the Steelers did on Thursday, they're definitely in that conversation now. So they'd be five for me. The chart. You want to say the charge is so bad. I'm such a Chargers, Koola drinker. It's terrible.

I regret it every single time. But they're in that conversation to me. And then even after Thursday night, I still think the Panthers are a really good team. So I would definitely throw out those seven as my, I wouldn't be shocked if it happened. May I say the Bears? I'm not doing that yet.

So nobody's going to say the Bears. I'm not doing that yet. I'm not doing it yet. I'm going to quietly believe it in my own mind and I'm never going to say it up. So you're a Bears fan. I've seen the handle between the dogs. tweets and the bear tweets. It's really my own, yeah, that's my social media presence now for sure.

Why can't you say the bears? The quarterback's just not good enough. I know, but he was awesome again this week. Like, what's up with this guy? The offensive coach is really good and their talent is really good. I mean, it's one of those things where you watch them the last two weeks against Buffalo and the Jets. And it's like, all right, it's not impressive.

And then they just drop Alan Robinson and Cleo Mac back into that conversation. The way they've built that team is super impressive. The job that Ryan Pace has done, I don't think he's getting enough credit right now. Ryan Pace is here. I'm just saying. Huge Ryan Pace fans tonight. Ryan Pace stands. I want to ask you this question.

I can't see one person. So it could be Ryan Pace. I can't see my mom. Hi, mom. I'm sorry I swore in front of your mom. I was just trying to make it's a late Vegas edgy podcast that we're doing here. Trust me. She swears way more than you.

All right. Sounds good. So you were at Chargers practice all last week. Yes. Do they have doctors? Do they have a medical staff? Because is Joey Bosa ever coming back? The two things that really stuck with me from the director's locker room were one,

Michael Badgeley is sitting alone with no one talking to him, which makes sense because he's going to cut a week anyway. You don't want to connect yourself with him anyway. And Joey Bose is just sitting there on a couch with his foot in a bucket of ice. He wasn't in a cold tub. It was just in a bucket of ice, like a cooler. I was like, what is going on here right now? That team is every single time I want to be excited about.

them how much they have. I just realized that they're not a real NFL team in like 20 different ways. Their entire medical staff is just making them. Yes. Google search web MD. That's all. They just have webmd open. You had the Richard Nixon Wikipedia page open last night. We're recording the podcast. That's all they have. It's just web MD. Stripping my interest in history. I think everybody keeps forgetting they're not in San Diego anymore. The refs. I write down notes. I put down SD. I'm like, what is this? I do it every time. Are we, are we missing one team that I think, before the season started, like if my friends are going to say, do you want to go to a strip club?

And I'd be like, no, I just want to look at the Vikings' depth chart because that turns me on. That team, and they've admitted it themselves, is that despite all this talent on paper, we haven't had, we haven't had the start. And I've never been, you know, I used to get huge arguments with my former co-host, Danny Cannell, back at ESPN, about Kirk Cousins. And I'd be like, you know what? I think I might actually have to admit that I'm wrong on this one. And I'm not even the biggest cousin's guy, but doesn't it feel, especially in that division, as you're sitting there, both not buying into the Bears? They terrify me.

Don't you have to at least say, hey, the Vikings could figure out a way to just be a little bit steadier the rest of the year? So I guess that depends on if they actually lost the Buffalo Bills, because I don't know if that game happened. It may have been a false memory kind of Mandela effect at this point. I'm not totally sure. If they really did lose that game, I think that's disqualifying because they play these games every three or four weeks, they're just completely head scratching. They're almost like a

ticking time bomb. When are they going to completely just mentally collapse? We saw it in the NFC championship game where they couldn't handle the RPO in the first quarter and then they just were completely out mentally. And so I just over a probably a three game stretch, obviously not going to get a buy. They're going to have one of those games. They will not make the Super Bowl. They frighten me. That's all I'll say. I mean, I just think that the talent is. I can't tell if that's good or bad right. They frighten me. I mean, I think the talent is such on both sides of the ball. Their offensive lines are mess.

And the injuries they had there, I mean, I was there in August. It was like mid-August. And their beatwriters were just like, it's over. Because the offensive line injuries, I was like, you guys are talking about. I kept forgetting certain guys on that defense. They're like, oh, they have him too. You know, so anyway.

And that's what I'm saying. It's because the offense is, I've been so impressed with cousins. I mean, you watch him in Washington. It's like, all right, he's a decent quarterback. What he's done this year, with that offensive line, he's been so, so good.

So that talent they have with the quarterback, with the receivers, and then just the potential on the defense, that's what worries me, is because they haven't played well,

but they just got Everson Griffin back. Rhodes has been dinged up a little bit. What if Barr puts it together? There's so many guys on that team that are top level, top tier talented players that I just feel like by the end of the year,

they're the best team in that division. And that's why I'm kind of tempering my excitement. about the bears. The other thing that we've seen, and I've kind of pointed this out maybe towards the end of having the daily ESPN show is that I'm always fascinated by whether or not we're doing things in life wrong, right? Like whenever you're doing something a really long time and then somebody presents a new way to do it, you never want to admit that maybe they're right because it means that you've been doing it wrong the whole time. And in football, hey, we've got to run

the football. We've got to be able to stop the run. I don't think it matters anymore. I think coaches look at a run attempt up the middle as a wasted attempt at a pass. I mean, the same things happen in the NBA with the way three-point shooting and small ball lineups. And this stuff happened. It fell overnight. And then baseball, the way they use pitchers feels immediate. The way at bats are approached are different. And it's just all these things have changed in such a short amount of time that when I look at all these teams, the one common threat is they're all top 10, if not top eight offenses. And defensively, I couldn't believe when I looked at and every metric, you know, we can get really nerdy about this, whether it's yard or something more advanced stuff. But New

England on paper as the better defense. And I don't trust those guys at all compared to what the Rams are on D. I can't believe they're this bad with the talent they have on defense. And Kansas City, who the first time they'd look good on defense against a rookie quarterback yesterday against Rosen and the Cardinals. I think that the running game, we talk about this all the time. He is a Todd Gurley, Truther. He and I go back and forth on it all the time. And I think that running is not efficient. But if it's part of who you are in terms of your identity, I think that it helps. The fact that the Rams use 40% play action on their dropbacks, I think that's why they are who they are. But you're right. I mean, for the most part, the running game doesn't matter. And then

if you look at the defenses, well, look, I'm willing to concede that Gurley's a little different here in that. And I still don't know that I would pay these guys or that kind of stuff, but I was lucky enough to go to that Saints game where the Saints beat the Rams, but seeing Gurley in person, like he makes you think about it. Like, you don't want to deal with their offense is just so different. I mean, you look at every single offense in the NFL. It's almost 70% shotgun for the most part. These teams are throwing the ball all the time. The Rams are the opposite. They're under center 66% of the time. Play action is who they are. And that's why they're running back to me is a little bit different than everyone else's. But to your point, yeah, I mean,

does it really matter if you have a top 10 defense anymore? And are we kidding ourselves if we think that by the end of this whole thing, the Patriots won't be able to stop people in the playoffs. They will. That's the problem with this season. It's been so fun. And watching these new exciting teams is so enjoyable. And then in the back of your mind, all you're thinking the entire time is, well, at the end of this, New England just to be able to stop people in playoffs. Yeah, I mean, the future of football is 45 to 43. And we've seen it the last two or three years. You know, everyone kept saying it's becoming like basketball. And now it really is.

It's about turnovers. It's about a couple of key stops. But you're not going to hold the Kansas City Chiefs under 28 points in the playoffs. That's just not going to happen. So you just build the modern defense you can. You know, spending a lot of money on defensive players is not very smart. We know that already. And so it's just about building not a good defense, but a modern defense.

And that's sort of what these teams have. And you can win a Super Bowl with that. So when you guys talk to teams front office guys, like what do they say about what they're trying to do anymore? Are there schemes? Like we always expect this stuff to evolve and the defensive catch up. I don't know. Between the penalties, between the offensive, you know, the numbers that we've seen, every passing record is going to be destroyed. You know, so some of these guys will say, well, look at Stafford's numbers at the end of this.

He's a Hall of Famer. I go, oh, man, I mean, I like Stafford, but that seems weird. That's just not true. No, what were we saying? I saw a stat. I saw a stat this morning, actually, that the Saints were scoring on 64% of their drives. Okay. And the 2007 Patriots, who we were all in awe of authentically, we're about 55%.

So that's where we're at. The Saints team is significantly better than the 07 Patriots. And so that's just the way it's going to go. And it's not going to regress. The guys like Drew Brees, there's a lot more guys who, when they're 40 years old, are going to look like Drew Brees who are 25 now than there were 10 years ago. For me, it's just about the way that you're trying to spend your resources. So all these teams, think about what McVeigh did for golf, and I don't mean to bring everything

back to the Bears, but think about what Nakey has done for Mitchell Chubesky. It's a real offense. Every single team that hires a defensive-minded head coach and is going to try to piece together their offensive staff, you should be kicked out on the street. The Steve Wilkes thing and what's going on with Todd Bowles and everything else, you just can't be that as an NFL franchise anymore. So you, I mean, I mean, this is a pretty drastic thing that you're basically saying that if the defensive-minded guy, he shouldn't be the head coach of your team anymore. I think if you have a- Bill Belichick's pretty good.

Bill Belichick is an exception to this rule, obviously. We'll let it. We'll accept Belichick as an answer. But if you drafted a guy in the top 10, which the Jets and the Cardinals did, and obviously Bowles was already in place, whatever. But the Cardinals willingly went out and hired Steve Wilkes after drafting guy in the, well, before. But that's just not, that's incongruous. You can't do that anymore. All that matters is building a staff and spending your resources in order to pump up your quarterback.

And every team that doesn't do that is doing it the wrong way. But I guess the question is, who are you going to hire? There's a finite number of good offensive minds. I'm looking to college. I'm looking to every. I mean, it's just there, so many guys are running college schemes. It's like, all right, let's just try that. John D. Philippo, guys like that, hire the Rams quarterbacks coach.

I don't care. I just don't want any more one or two year defensive coordinator. to be given these head coaching jobs with young quarterbacks. See, this is something I thought about for a while, and now that Texas Tech has turned it around and they're competitive for Texas Tech, but I thought if Kingsbury ever lost his gig, there'd be an owner going,

give me the guy that had Mahomes in Baker Mayfield. I think you're right. I think all of these, you might not even have to be a head coach at the college level. You have to have the next crazy system that's putting up 50 plus points, and you're going to go, I'm going to tie that guy to my new young QB.

And I think you're absolutely, right. I think that's what all of these guys are going to do because all I've heard, and it's not entirely fair. You know, look, Sean Payton's been around a while. He's not 25. But it became this thing between Shanahan's run and what they did with Garoppolo at the end of last year and what McVe has been able to do with Gough, where Gough looked like a disaster with Fisher and that entire coaching staff. But that owners are going to see those things and be like, I need a young guy with a trim beard. And, you know, I need somebody that's the future of what this is. Even if it's the wrong hire, that's what they're going to look for. You might as well screw it.

up, but you would need to go that route. And again, what's happening with Mitchell Trubisky is not a good quarterback. The Bears are, the Bears. The Bears. The Bears are over there. He's super pissed off. The Bears are a competitive team because they have an offensive coach that puts their guys in constant positions to succeed.

And I just think that's what you need. I mean, you need to go to Andy Reid's offensive coordinator, all that stuff. Those are the right hires at this moment in time. There's just, there's going to be a run on Andy Reed coordinators, and you're going to get stuck with the lemon. Like that's the real danger of. But that's okay. If you're stuck with a lemon that as long as you made the right move in terms of process,

it's going to go wrong every once in a while. It's not going well with Tennessee right now. No. I mean, what the floor has done has not been impressive, but I still like the hire in the moment. You're going to get these wrong every once in a while. But as long as your thought process is correct, I'm fine with it. Right.

Well, Adam Gays was kind of along those lines, though, too. It's because you go, oh, hey, Peyton Manning loved him. Then I'll be good. And then what I always try to explain to anybody when, you know, when you're doing this, is that you can be the most impressive X&O guy ever. But it is just a little bit different when everybody's looking to you. And some people just don't have the personality for that. And that's probably why so many of these great coordinators end up failing. When I look at Rosen, I go back to the start of this draft class.

And we thought if you talk to anybody about it, it was one of the special ones. People compare it to 83. You know, Todd McShay is a close friend. a year out. He goes between Allen, who I think physically is as gifted as anyone, Darnold, maybe even Baker, who at the time wasn't really thought to be, especially if you go number one overall, rose in the conversation. People were even talking Mason Rudolph, and then Lamar ends up going. Where are you right now with them as a class? Because, again, not entirely fair, but on paper, going into last week, four of the worst QBRs were the first round rookies other than Lamar,

and then the fifth guy was Eli. But he got you guys a win tonight. So I think, especially on the money line. We're going to look back at this class and think all of these quarterbacks had their own little miniature Jeff Fisher. Yes. All of them had this, this block in the way. I mean, we, they, the Cardinals put Mike McCoy with their rookie quarterback. They said, this is the guy we want. Isn't it so obvious when you watch him, all they see is a rookie and they don't trust him?

Right. Like they don't trust Rosen at all. And I actually thought he was the most NFL ready of all the guys. I love Rosen. I think he's going to be really good. It just. I feel so good about this. right now. And I feel like in three years, we were like, remember we did that live podcast?

And we talked about how awesome Josh Rosen was. I love Josh Rosen. I think he's going to be a really good quarterback. But it's what we're just talking about. It's what happened with golf to draft these guys in the top 10 and then build your franchise and more or less say to your rookie quarterback, good luck, buddy. It's crazy. I just cannot believe the lack of infrastructure they've given these guys. Jeremy Bates. Mike McKeown. That was a negative. I take it. That was bad. He's bad. The Cardinals have a first year head coach, and they fired their offensive coordinator in like four weeks. They got to pick that guy. It's not as if Steve Wilkes was saddled with Mike McCoy.

Also, Mike McCoy had the cheat code, which was David Johnson. All you had to do was say, hey, Josh, give the ball to David Johnson, and he didn't do it. I mean, it was just mind-boggling incompetence. And so I think a lot of these guys, I mean, for Baker Mayfield just had a nice game. He was, he's coached by Greg Williams. Okay. Yeah. Greg Williams had a lot of offers prior to this.

He did. he actually was we asked him to come to this show he refused he turned it down yeah but so we're we're going to look back on this class and i don't know if it's going to like 83 but we're going to have a much different read on it in three and four so you're still bullish on this thing there's still talent there i for who's your guy then of the group i it's rosin baker one eight one b to me i think rose is really good okay so where are you guys with baker right now i'm also bullish on baker it's one a one b no but i mean from what you've seen because i you know i think this is kind of how it's happening. I have this theory, right? It's the Monday night theory,

or it could even be the Sunday night game. But if you're a young quarterbacker, hell, you could even be a guy that's debated. I mean, other than that top tier of guy, then I feel like there's 15 guys that if you wait around long enough, you'll have a week of results that will back your opinion on that quarterback, because that's all we're really doing is walking around and be like, man, Andrew Luck sucks. And then you just have to be quiet for a month straight, which is right now. When you're bad on Sunday or Monday, that's like being bad for four straight games. because everybody sees it. And if you're great,

I remember Gino Smith had like a decent game against the Saints in a prime time slot. It was like, the Jets have something to build with it. I don't remember that one. No, I'm going to send you the link to that. Baker,

excuse me, when Darnold has that game against the Lions, we're like, man, Bowls is going to get extended. You know, the Pats, you know,

do we have somebody to challenge him? And then ironically, Baker beats Darnold in the game replaces Tyrod. And yet in that moment, I think people get excited about it, and then it's very easy to kind of lose track of how bad they've been in most of these games.

I'll be curious, we were just talking about it. I'll be curious about the level of patience. Yep. I think Bulls is probably done. I mean, I think today was one of those weeks, or this week was one of those weeks where these guys are probably on the outs. I mean, the Bengals may never fire Marvin Lewis,

but that was another one I was thinking about. Not only that, they're bringing in Hugh Jackson. Did you see this? The titles are doubling down. I thought he was going to be on first take, but, but a team like the, The only person with more job offers than Greg Williams is Hugh Jackson. A team like the Cardinals, right?

So you hire Steve Wilkes. It's year one. You've seen what that offense is like, can you honestly just run it back next year? I don't know how you can justify that. And it just feels like we're going to see more of these teams pull the trigger quicker with these coaching hires and just say, we need something different because we need to get everything out of our young quarterback. But that in turn depletes the bench.

That's why so many bad coaches are in power right now is. because the churn has, has gotten faster to the point that there's just not a bench. You have to go to college. You have to go to college offensive coordinators in some cases to find offensive talent because it's just, it's drying up. I want Mike Leach to be a head coach in the NFL so bad. It would be amazing. Unfortunately for Leach, every time they get hired, they're like, what's a middle of nowhere

pyro5 program? So he ends up in Pullman and Lubbock. I was talking to him like two weeks ago and we were talking about the game drop. We were talking about, I love Mike Leach's death. talking, we were talking about the Rams offense, and I mentioned a type of play that they were using. And in, during our conversation, he was like, oh, I just came up with something awesome. And it was, yeah, it was, and that's the type of thing. It's like, he's just such a brilliant football mind. And we just need more people like that in the NFL, even if they're not prototypical NFL head coach.

Well, you know, it's really funny. If you think about, you know, him going back to Kentucky and all that stuff, is that when Tim Couch was the number one pick of the Browns, that was before people didn't understand the bus ratio on spread QBs. because it was still so new to all of us. So it's like, what is he, six four? Awesome. Take him number one. And now I still, look, I've gone to five games. I was just in Norman, as I mentioned.

I go to LSU Bama every year. There's so many spread quarterbacks that I watch from the sideline, and I'll go, man, he's pretty good, but I don't know. You know, it's not, it's probably more safe than maybe it was five years ago, but I still am, it's hard figuring this thing out. And these guys still screw it up. It comes down to Andy Reed has said this. million times to me and other people, but it comes down to the fact they're throwing more than

they ever have. It's like a 10,000 hour theory from the time they're eight years old in some cases. They're in seven on sevens. They're in high school and they're in summer camps and they are throwing thousands of times more than the generations before them. And so if you're Andy Reed, you can take that armed talent and just make it into Patrick Mahomes, make it into something good. Everybody, even Mahomes was inconsistent. I know what he wants to believe this. But Bohombs was the craziest one to me. I mean, Mahomes, when you watched him play, it didn't even look like football. I couldn't believe some of the stuff he would do. I'd be like, you don't get yelled at from that throw? And it didn't matter because they needed to score 60. That, it was so that kind of the gap you're talking about from kind of

projecting these guys in an NFL system and watching them in professional football, he was the hardest one. But the other one that's quietly a huge jump, Jared golf played in one of the most air raid heavy systems you can possibly imagine. I mean, Sunny Dykes is an air raid truther. And now Jared golf is under center two thirds of the time. These things can happen. Could you imagine? Could you imagine going from the air raid to Jeff Fisher? They were joking with this the other day. My working theory, so his, Jeff Fisher's last two offensive coordinators were Rob Veronis. Rob Veronis.

Frank Signetti, who I don't know where they are anymore. They may have been just pen name for Jeff Fisher. I would some respect on Brian Schottenheimer's name. No, but that really was what it was. Like, I would start asking around, not that I'm plugged in NFL wise to you guys. And I go, like, what is wrong with this? Like, how does it keep happening? They go, actually, like, Jeff has a hard time filling out.

not his staff. Yeah. And so that was that was the golf thing. I, you know, look, I mean, that first year of golf got so bad, we started hearing Fisher rumors through the media that he'd always wanted Wentz. You know, like, because as Hugh Jackson loses his gig, he's like, well, I liked Mahomes, Watson, and Wentz. Like, that's pretty convenient.

None of the guys you took. All right. Before we do some Q&A stuff, and we get some other things that I want to get to here, I want to do a little bit of this. Who would you rather be? Okay. and because we're in Vegas and we haven't touched on it yet.

Do we have a lot of Raiders fans here? Are you guys psyched about what you're important here? I'm so sorry. Me too. Let's talk about it. I feel like I heard nothing. I'm not even exaggerating. Who would you rather be right now?

I think with the money, it's not fair. But John Gruden or Jason Garrett? This is mean. It's Gruden. It's Gruden because the money, but that's the only reason. I also, this is morbid, but I was reading the other day that global warming is going to really

kick up in 2028 around when Gruden, his contract is over. So he may just ride this into the apocalypse. And then we don't have to look back on this era or anything like that and it's going to be fine. I think it's probably Gruden because of the money and just all that stuff. But I also think that John Gruden has no self-awareness. So that's probably why it's Gruden too, because he doesn't know he's doing a bad job. So it's not as if he's waking up depressed. This bad though. Now, granted, like nothing makes you more overrated.

They're a joke. Right. But to win a Super Bowl and then my joke was always, like, especially with the NBA coaches, like as soon as you went to ESPN, I would be like, who do you think you're going to end up working for in four months? Because owners would be at home watching NBA tonight at 2 a.m. Being like, that's a really great point. I'm going to give Mike Brown four years.

it's Mike Brown's on here, right? You did a great job with us at ESPN. And that's what happened with Gruden. I mean, granted, the Raiders thing is a little bit different because you feel like it went wrong and they're, they're getting back together. But he became this epic fix-all just because he had a good personality on Monday night football. And that's insane. Steve Kerr is like the exact opposite of this, right? I mean, Steve Kerr is the actual competent coach that came out of the media.

But it, that 2000, 2002, 2003, what year's the buck in the Super Bowl? Oh, two. Joe two. John Gruden won a Super Bowl, but he won a Super Bowl with the greatest past defense in the history of modern football. And that's why, as this entire thing was happening, it's, well, yeah, you know, John Gruden won a Super Bowl. You did this and that. I still never understood it because John Gruden won a Super Bowl with an incredible defense, and he was out of the league for 10 years. None of it makes sense.

It's gone about as bad as I figured it would go. You know, the Gruden thing was always kind of a weird spot because when you're doing, you know, again, I was there every day. I was in the building for like 12 years, and it's not like all of us thought each other were awesome on the air. And Gruden was, I got it, you know, and there's always a little something about anything. And it's not specific to ESPN, but there's always something about a company that can be like, oh, we can grab him from that company. And, you know, that's what he was. He was at NFL Network, and they were pumped. And I thought he did a good job.

And he had to change broadcast partners the whole time. But what used to always kind of blow my mind is how openly he would just court a, other opportunities where he could work. Like he went on a radio show once and they asked him about, hey, Peyton Manning, what do you think? What about this Panthers defense? Who should the Bears hire? And then at the end, he's like, man, Rocky Top.

Freaking love that song, man. I was singing that all night. And you were like, what, dude? We didn't ask you about Tennessee. And that's how he said goodbye. He said goodbye saying how much he loved the song, Rocky Top. And the two radio hosts, like I went up to him after like, what? What was that?

They were like, we have no idea. And so he nailed it. He made it perfect. But I think any time if you're, again, this is the Raiders here, but anytime you're a front office or an ownership and you have to go, so we have to pay this guy $100 million to be the coach, do we have, can we not do it? And that should be your answer. And it's even worse.

It's even worse than any of us could imagine. It's $100 million. I mean, what, can you imagine a, what is year four of? this look like. Yes, exactly. What does your two of it look like? I mean, when this team gets here to Vegas in two years, who is the face of the freshman? What's the over under on numbers of guys on? One and a half under. You think it's one and a half players will make it here. So Derek Carr and not Derek Carr. No, I think he's gone. Colton Miller is not even making it. By the way, by the way, am I insane for wondering like why the Derek Carr thing would be something you want to move off of this

quickly? I understand his contract, but still where the cap's going to go with the new TV deal. It's, I mean, they can get out from under it. I think that's the reason you want to do it is because there's no penalty. And if you really do. Who you're bringing in?

Yeah, but that's what like, eventually, you're going to have a number one pick. You're going to have the number one pick in the draft. You can pick your guy. That is the answer. If he really does want to remake this franchise in his own image and he's like,

this is my team, I want to build it my own way. This is the year where they can do. This guy's, his ideal quarterback is like a Jeff Garcia, Josh Johnson hybrid. He doesn't make a good choice. I'd just say he might want to make a choice.

He doesn't want the first overall pick. It'll be one of these guys. It'll be a first rounder that's a bus because one of these guys will be a bust. Yes. And then it'll be Josh Allen, Vegas Raiders. Yeah, absolutely.

All right. So it sounds like Gurdon was still the answer, though, despite all those compliments. All right. Speaking of a rookie, who would you rather be, Josh Allen or Josh Rosen? Josh Allen? Have you been to Buffalo? What? Wait, what?

Is that your answer? You'd rather be Josh Rosen? Excuse me. No. I was like, I feel like you said the wrong name. I would definitely rather be Josh Rosen. The wrong name and the wrong city. Yeah, it's Josh Rosen.

Okay. I don't think I need to follow up on that. Although, I will say this, as far as replacing somebody, there is no better person to replace in the history of maybe sports than Nathan Peter. Josh Allen's going to be a conquering hero. That's so true. It's so bad. So low to the point.

The only working theory I have is that Nathan Peter, was a viral advertisement for Josh Allen. When I think of Peterman and the way people talk about him now, one of my favorite movies, maybe my favorite movie ever's Fargo. And I actually feel bad for William H. Macy when he's trying to crawl out of that motel. And he had his wife kidnapped,

which is something you shouldn't do. And that led to a terrible thing with the woodchipper and all. But I still somehow felt bad for him. And that's kind of how I feel about, Ethan Peterman. I honestly do too. I mean, it's just one of those things

where the guy seems really sad. I mean, when you hear him talk about stuff, it just, he seems really bummed out all the time. He did the like, my life is more than football thing. He said when you gave up.

He did it three starts ago. And the bills kept trotting him out there. I don't, I think he starts again for the bills. Didn't Bush Jones once say we're, we're winning at the University of Life. Yeah. Something.

Whenever you start to do that, you go. That's where you know it's over. Bruce Allen does that with Washington sometimes. We're just like, we're doing great as a franchise. Well, they aren't first. Well, no, I meant when they're bad. Oh, okay.

So he keeps quiet. All right, have one more. And then we'll take a little break. We'll get it back to Brian. Everybody can enjoy their Juliet's here from Belvedere. But before we get to that, all right, let's see how this one goes. Who would you rather be right now? Levion Bell or Kaepernick?

It's Levy on Bell because I'll get a job. But, I mean, it's, Capernick is never going to play again. I mean, it doesn't seem like it's even a remote possibility. So that's why it's Levy on Bell. Levy on Bell will get signed by a team next year. Yeah. But, wait, is this from a football perspective or from like a life perspective?

Total package. I'd rather be. Oh, all right. I'd rather be Capernick. I mean, you're going to be remembered for in. People like them. Long time. People,

people like them. Levyon Bell is just the guy who just randomly gave up $14 million this year. I'm going to play for the bills next. I will jump on that. I agree. If it's not just from a football perspective, then that I'm with you. You want to change a game behind Josh Allen next. You're Josh Allen.

No, I'm all set. Thank you. It's the whole picture. I'm all set. Thank you. All right. There's a bunch of other things we're going to get to, including your NFL hill that you want to die on. And maybe we'll grab somebody from the crowd on that one as well.

But before we do that and finish up with some Q&A stuff as well, we'll get back over to Brian and let you know about this drink that we're pounding down. I mean, like, how fantastic is all this stuff? I mean, the NFL is something that's always constantly reinventing itself. It's one of those things where five years ago, the running back quarterback was the new NFL offense, right? And now we're just guessing. We're guessing at what the new team is going to be. The Rams should win the Super Bowl. Are they going to? I don't know. Well, you know what you don't have to guess about? Belvedere vodka. 100% rye with pineapple juice, a little bit of soda water. You have a

delicious cocktail in your hand. And it's a winning combination every time. I am a Raiders fan, by the way. And I'll tell you right now, I mean, John Gruden, he was, I mean, he was supposed to be like the next Madden, right? Big waste, big waste. Just dying right now on this. So that's a no vote. You should have yourself a couple of those, by the way. You definitely deserve it.

I'm taking the bottle, though. I have a bunch of NBA things that, you know, I think about, like, I'm like the only person in the world that thinks there was a chance that maybe LeBron could have stayed with Cleveland if they could have pulled off a trade. And now that I live out in L.A., like the guy that's not even on the top shelf for the Equinox trainer board, It'll be like down here on the second one.

Like, dude, I knew that a year ago. What are you a moron? Like, how did you know, Dave? You're like a level two. You don't even have your massage certification yet. Give me your NFL hill that you both die on. Obviously individually here. But the thing and you guys, I want to grab somebody out here at some point,

the thing that you say in your group of friends, some belief that you have in the NFL, that people kind of question why they should even be friends with you. Nice. I definitely said that Philip Rivers is one of the 10 greatest quarterbacks of all time on Bill Simmons podcast last week. I actually kind of like that. That's that that one's probably, I think that how I consider him in the all-time hierarchy is the one that's maybe most embarrassing. Why is that embarrassing?

That's not embarrassing. I mean, think about all the, he's never, how many playoff games is Philip Rivers won? I mean, he's not a guy you would just throw in the conversation typically. You get to the issue title game. Right. So is that two that year with the. buy. Oh, wait a minute. That could have been the buy. I think they had to buy that year because they were really good.

They were really. I just think that he is in the conversation with the best quarterbacks that I've ever played. I really do. And the other one is the second hill I will die on for the rest of time. I think Julius Peppers is the best football player I've ever seen. Keep going. I'm going to try to find somebody who has a

water. Okay. I'm going to blow you out of the water. I think that Marvin Lewis is an amazing coach. That's a really good one. We talked about that. That's a little weird than the Phillip River. We talked about this last week. We talked about this last week because someone in a ringer meeting said that he was bad. And we both leapt to his defense. He completely resurrected a horrible, like Browns-esque franchise into a perennial playoffs.

It was the worst franchise in the NFL. And he turned them into a team that made the playoffs, what, like five times in eight years or something like that? No, it was funny. We kind of looked at each other as the conversation was happening. We were like, no, my marvelous is actually good. Yeah, that's our hill. We're both on that hill. All right, we got one.

He said one name, and I didn't even have to hear the rest. So I think we're good here. Just introduce yourself and go for it. I'm Noah. I live in Summerlin. Hey, Noah. All you guys' podcasts, appreciate it. So the hill I die on that all my friends hate me for is if Jay Cutler didn't strain his MCL in the NFC championship game,

we'd be debating if Maddie Ice was better than Aaron Rogers. Mays, I let you take this one. I legit think they could have won the Super Bowl that year if he didn't get hurt. I legit think that it's, trust me, I think about that day so many times. I remember where I was when I watched that game. I was at the other side in Lincoln Park. And after the B.J. Raji interception touchdown, I got drunker than I think I've ever gotten my entire life. I was so, so depressed.

Trust me, I'm with you. You don't have to convince me. All right. We got one from a little bit further back, but I remember this. This is the first time I'm really worried about a locker room. Just introduce yourself and go for it. My name is Walter. I'm from Rochester, New York.

And I truly believe the Buffalo Bills would have won the Super Bowl if Doug Flutie started over Rob Johnson and the Music City Miracle. Wow. Okay. Wow. Because there's a lot of bills, what ifs about the Super Bowl. None of them involved Doug Flutie. That's amazing. Good hill.

How old were you during the Music City Miracle? Like 12. Yeah, it was a while ago. Yeah, I remember it, but it was a long time ago. Okay, we got one more, and this one is, uh, we might, somebody might have to cut them off. I don't know how to Juliet's that. Hey guys again.

Um, Jason from, uh, California. I think that John Gruden, not to go back to him in the one fan to have here. Uh, I think he is the Sam Hinky of the NFL. Wow. Um, process, the process in the NFL. Yeah, no, I, I, I see where you're going with that. I'm just trying to... It's tough to process.

Yeah, I'm trying to... Punn extended. It's all you. It's all you. I think there's a chance. I think that there's a real chance that this whole thing is just the whole like, I don't understand analytics. I don't know if it's data or data, which might be his best bit.

I think there's a chance. This is all an incredible scam and he's been working. It's like a Brody from Homeland kind of thing. And he's just going deep in. And then in five years, they're going to win the Super Bowl. would be my favorite thing about the NFL ever if John Gruden was just a secret genius. Just revealed himself to be Aaron Schatz. I would absolutely love it.

But I don't think that's true. You drove here from the Air Force Base, right? He said. So did you serve? All right. Well, thanks. He, uh, Jason told me he made a three and a half hour road trip out here. So, uh, that was pretty cool, man.

Seriously. Pretty awesome. Um, because I, you know, I, you know, I, I didn't, the crowd's great, by the way. So thanks, thanks for all you guys coming out. I don't want to talk about Gruden anymore. He just, he just stunned me with that one.

The thing about Hinky that was always so funny is when I talked to NBA GMs about it, they'd be like, so what's the deal with this guy? He gets a four-year deal and sucks. And then we don't know if he's any good at the job yet. There was so much resentment about him around the league and then other owners. And I actually think Hinky, and not to turn this into an NBA thing, but I think that's a really good piece of kind of, kind of just an observation that if you are something that isn't accepted, don't advertise it.

Just shut up. Don't tell everybody that you're going to be the worst. Don't tell everybody we're going to grab half of Georgetown's roster when they stink because people would rather actually, it speaks a lot to apologies, we'd rather be lied to. So when other teams in the NBA are tanking, they'll sign Carlos Boozer at the very end of his career for one year for 10 million going, what do you mean? We're competing. We're not tanking.

We're like, well, yeah, you are. Hinkie was unapologetic about. it and couldn't understand the dynamic of people not understanding what he was trying to do. That's the dynamic around the Browns. Yeah. That's the comparison. Yeah, absolutely. The Orlando Magic did not advertise what they were doing and it's still set.

So just a play eye on it. We've seen that in the NFL. And I think that that's exactly what the Browns did. And I think that there, I mean, you can, there was resentment. I think that teams around the league really didn't like what the Browns were doing. And it was the same thing. They had to bring in like a pure football. guy to make sure it was very very simple. We've already seen it happen and the Browns have decent

talent. If they get a good coach, I think that they can be really good, really fast. But that's the thing is that people just don't like teams doing that and people that are so. It's shameless. The other guy that's trying to keep his job doesn't, like, wait a man, so you get to suck and get a contract extension and I'm worried about getting fired in three years. But I think there's another thing from this. And it's kind of my balance of like liking numbers, but not just following them blindly either, is that the numbers guys can be so condescending about it. And I mean, the baseball guys are the, like, I don't tweet about baseball anymore because people don't care. And I was into the Red Sox run. I'm sitting there watching an 18 inning game. And then you just get hammered over the head.

Be like, oh, first time watching a baseball game. And you're like, no, but I didn't tweet about the Blue Jays and Sox in May, because I knew no one was going to care. I'm the same way. I mean, I can't remember what it was. Have you ever gotten to a fight with an analytics guy? What? You're getting in a fight. So Juliet got to me.

That's it. No, I'm the same way with baseball. It's like, every time I tweet about the Cubs, people are just like, well, actually. And it's like,

I just hate this. I just like watching my baseball team. Just let me live my life. I love pro football focus to death. Last week, they argued if any running back wins the MVP. It shouldn't be Todd Gurley. It should be James White. That's a real thing.

that happened. What? They wrote that, dude. It's out there. It's on the internet. They published it. Yep.

But see, then when I look at the Sunday night stuff when they have the positional rank. Yeah. And if it's a team I'm really locked into and I'd be like, he's the seventh best guard in the NFL.

And then, of course, all the ex-offensive linemen freak out. And they go, who's grading this film? You guys suck. With more information, I've never been dumber. I don't know who's good anymore.

The offensive line stuff is tough because they do it off the, actual TV film. And it's impossible to grade offensive linemen on that. And all the gar- like the Rams have really good offensive linemen because Sean McVeigh puts them in like amazing positions

just destroy people on every play. It's impossible to grade that stuff. Every time I think someone looks good, they flash that he's 78. In the league. At safety. That's right. I know. I can't believe I said Lowe Collins is good the other day on the show.

I feel like such an asshole. 78th. Damn it. Okay. We're going to wrap up with this. I mean, I just wanted to ask some of our staff people, do you guys want me to get out there and do a Q&A? If you guys want to do it, we can do a few of them. I mean, you guys let us know.

Okay. So that seems like a resounding yes. Okay. All right. All right. So let's do the Q&A first, I think. And then we'll kind of do this rapid fire fun thing that I have these two guys doing. How well do you know your podcast host.

All right. So just wave your hand or whatever. and we'll finish up with some questions here. All right, we'll go ahead. You serve. All right. This one's for you, man. As a fan of the Miami Dolphins, the Miami Hurricanes, Orlando Magic,

and I assume the Miami Marlins. No, I'm not a Dolphins fan. I thought you were a Dolphins. Well, now you are. Okay. Which one of those four teams do you think will win a playoff game first? Oh, it's not the University of Miami. I would say it's the magic.

and it's in 2029. I'm really sorry, buddy. Yeah, it's okay. Jake from Las Vegas, but a big KC. Chiefs fan. It's November now. I'm just wondering if you've changed your take, Kevin Clark, on Patrick Mahomes being the best quarterback you want for the five years. I think Patrick Mahomes is really, really good.

And I'm starting, my broad take on Patrick Mahomes is, I don't want to say system, because I think he's incredible. I just think there are maybe five or six guys who could put up these numbers of the 32 starting quarterbacks in Andy Reed's system if he came through Andy Reid's system. So, yeah, I think that if I had to take anybody for the next five years, right now it would be Patrick Mahomes.

But again, I'd love to see everybody spend a week in Andy Reid's system and see how it goes. I feel that way about Jared golf as well with McVeigh. This is for Robert. What's up with the kickers in the NFL? and do you start seeing guys drafted in the top four rounds now as kickers? Oh, good question. You've written about this a little bit, just how the kicking in general,

the stats back up that they're actually better than they've been for a long time. Well, the Raiders punter ran faster than Alvin Kamara ever has in his career yesterday, according to the numbers, by the way. It's so strange that so many elements of football are getting more efficient and better and kicking just doesn't feel like it's going that way. I mean, the Chargers haven't been able to find one in like five years. I have no idea what the reason. It's because MLS is a bigger deal now.

Maybe. They're taking our kickers. All the guys that would be kickers. It's so strange. And I just feel like we should be, honestly, it's kind of how quarterbacks were five years ago, where you think, like,

we should be able to find 32 guys to do this. Yeah. And now we have them. And with kickers, it feels like we should be able to do the same thing, and we're just not there. It's really weird. I also think that they,

they went really cheap on the kickers. Yeah. They're just like, we're not going to give second contracts. And now these guys are making $800,000. Well, I mean, missing every third kid. You look, Dan Bailey gets cut by the Cowboys and then goes to Minnesota and can't make a kick anymore. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Chris, Las Vegas. And speaking of the Cowboys, um, yeah. So I was wondering if, uh, for Dak Prescott, do you think the criticism that he gets is because we're always on national TV or do you think it's justified? And then on top of that, I was debating with my brother last night who actually, coach his quarterback's out in Dallas. And I was wondering, if we do hire someone say like Lincoln Riley, assuming we get rid of Jason Garrett, do you think he hangs on to Dag Prescott with the thought of like,

I can fix this guy or do you think he just moves in a completely different direction? Maze, you've done a lot of writing on the coaching staff there. It's going to be a fascinating decision, whatever he chooses to do. I think that DAC is unfairly criticized because like we were talking about with Josh Rosen or what the Jets are doing, when you don't put your quarterback in the right spot and you don't give him the infrastructure to succeed, you shouldn't criticize that person because we've seen what real coaches can do. And I feel like that's where DAC is. And they're going to, if they bring back Jason Garrett next year, the franchise should be disbanded. So I think if they bring in somebody,

that's going to be his decision. Do you want DAC? Do you want to hit yourself to Dak Prescott? And I think I would. At the right price. Yes. I wouldn't give him a lot of money. I think that what's going to happen with Dak just money-wise is they're going to give him the Andy Dalton. Portals. The Andy Dalton, Ryan Tannahill, essentially two-year deal where there's a kind of a trap door that you can get out from under. And I think that's what's going to happen. I would give Dak that.

And I am actually excited about seeing him with the right guy. Jerry Jones is going to give him $150 million. You remember those. Jack is going to wait until everybody else leaves the room, but Jerry, and he's going to slip him $150 million contract and Jerry's going to sign him. Jones gave Rome. just the going rate at the time on the first big deal. And people were like, wait a minute.

And I don't know. We'll see. All right. We got like three more that we'll get this thing wrapped up. Hi, Ralph from New Jersey. Hey, you stopped me and you said, you stopped me yesterday. And you said you had a work thing and you were trying to get out of it. I told you to quit your job.

Yeah. Okay. How did that go? We did it. Okay. We're here. Yeah. I'm sure you guys are enjoying Peyton Manning detail every week.

The quarterbacks he's chosen so far to look at. were Josh Rosen, Patrick Mahomes, Baker Mayfield, fine, all the QBs of the future. And Matthew Stafford. Why Matthew Stafford? I mean, Rassel brought it up earlier. I mean, Matthew Stafford's legacy is going to be fascinating because he's going to break most of these records. I don't think he's very good. The clean, non-steroid Raphael Palmero where we're just looking at his numbers in 10 years and be like, wait, what?

Yeah. I mean, I think that's it. I mean, when you just think, about what Matthew Stafford has been for the last decade and just the numbers he's putting up. I can understand why somebody would be interested in him. I really can't. All right. JR from Las Vegas. Lifelong Niner fan, but, you know, watching Frank Gore yesterday, he's busting off five, 10-yard runs, not stop. Is this guy our first ballot Hall of Famer?

I don't know. You're the running back guy. I feel like I'd retroactively throw all running backs out. I think he should get in. My thing about Hall of Fame is that if you're not the best player at your position ever when you're in the league over your entire career, that you probably shouldn't get in. And that's how I feel about Frank Gore, but he'll get in. But at what point over the last 15 years was Frank Gore the best running back in the NFL? It never happened. And I just think that matters.

Your own betis is in. I know. I know. It just the counting stats and just raw totals, always skeptical of. I want to see you be a one, two, three-time all-pro. That's always how I've thought about it. Yeah. Hey, guys, Andre's from Connecticut.

The Jets have 90 million or so in cap space next year. How will they fix it? Oh, my God. I saw you, buddy. Oh, my God. I think it's 109. I don't even know where you begin. Who's good on that team?

Jamal Adams is pretty good. That's really it. Leonard Williams. Brian Winters. is a good guard. I got to stick to my brand here. I saw a stat that today was from PFF to. Brian Winters was the second best guard in week 10,

and the Jets were actually, they just won the Super Bowl. That's where we're at. I think you try to overpay for a good coach. Maybe you get in the Lincoln Riley soup stakes and just hope that it works. That's what it starts. I mean,

I think the first thing you do is you build an offensive staff around Sam Darnold that's competent. You don't go with the defensive head coach and Jeremy Bates, who shouldn't be an offensive. coordinator. You just go out and build a Chicago style, Philadelphia style staff around him and then go from there. Chicago style. I like that. Thanks, buddy. I really appreciate it. Okay, two more guys. Thanks. Brian from Vancouver here. I love the podcast, guys. You've been working

on a theory that Belichick and other great coaches would love it to have a terrible quarterback. Yeah, that's mine to sort of like demonstrate how awesome they are. From the current crop of like the worst quarterbacks, who would you think that Belichick would just be like, get me that guy? Okay, so, yeah, I know, it would be, he would love, here's what I think. I think he would love to have just like a long week, maybe a Thursday into a Sunday with Nathan Peterman. Yeah. I think that would be, just for one game, but I think that in order to win a Super Bowl,

who's the worst quarterback he could take? Could he win a Super Bowl? This year is weird. For whatever. Elon Manning is. a good one. For whatever reason, I keep coming back to Osweiler. Osweiler. I just, I could see him in the uniform because he had mallet.

So I thought he would, I think he would like a more mobile quarterback, because I think he would like to run sort of single wing schemes and stuff like that. I mean, I think that he does, there's an amazing lacrosse magazine video of Belichick, where he's, they ask, he's, like, all he cares about is lacrosse. He loves the cross. He loves the cross. They were like,

do your Patriots team as, as lacrosse? A lacrosse team was a weird question. But then they were like, is Brady on? And he goes, no, Brady can't run. And it was so quick that you could tell he's been thinking about where his Patriots players would be on a lacrosse team for 20 years. He's talking about like Gruncowski, where he'd move him around.

It's like Brady's on the bench. And so he would love to have. He's thought about Julian Adam and has an attack like for 50 hours a week. Like a healthy Ryan Tannahill. He would work wonders. Oh, yeah. They'd win us who gold with healthy Rattano. Absolutely.

That was such a great question. Bordos. I was expecting me at the end to be like, and why do the bills keep trying to do that? All right, we got one more here. Hi, Jim from Las Vegas. Hey, Jim. The sort of that mid-generation of quarterbacks now,

maybe starting with Ryan's draft class in 08, maybe to Ryan Tannahill now. Where do we see those guys going? Because some of those guys have kind of plateaued. I'm a Lions fan, so I know that the Jim Bob Cooter experience is sort of, please make it stop. So you talked about the young guys and giving them the good offensive mind.

What about these guys who have sort of are about to move to that maybe next step in their careers where, you know, one more contract maybe? I think Matt Ryan is a good place to start that conversation because we saw Matt Ryan as one version of Matt Ryan for so long. And then Kyle Shanahan came in. He won't name to P. I just think that there are margins that these guys don't hit because their coaches. aren't necessarily great. I think that that's the most important thing. I mean, it's the fact that Matt Ryan was the MVP of the league,

and we haven't seen that with a lot of these other guys. I think that's them what matters. Bring in the right guy to get the most out of them. And for the most part, we haven't seen that with that crop of quarterbacks. We just talked about this earlier in the week. Russell Wilson. Yeah.

That's it. Yeah. And it's funny because I'd always been of the theory that when the sort of golden generation Breeze, Manning, Brady, when they're all out of the game, it becomes Matthew Stafford's NFL, it becomes Matt Ryan's NFL. I thought that up to this year.

But now you see Patrick Mahomes. Now you see guys like that or even just, you know, off. But also just teams like the Bears who can manufacture offense with a crappy quarterback. Playing quarterback is easier than it ever has been. And so having a Matthew Stafford is probably going to be less valuable

than ever in five years. Okay, we're going to do a quick little thing at the end. We want to thank all of you, though, for coming out here because we've been around all day. We're doing the walk through. The fact that we're able to fill the room. room really seriously means a lot to us. Absolutely.

Because I know it wasn't easy for all of you guys to get here. This is really cool. We have this fun thing playing here at the end. We're going to do a little T-shirt ringer giveaway there across the hallway here, the Monte Cristo. So it's a really cool room in there and they're good to go. We want to send it back to Brian here with Belvedere for one final word, man. So take it away.

Thank you so much for having us be a part of this. I mean, this podcast is everything and amazing. And the fans make it incredible. again, if you have some time and you had a question and you wanted to kind of talk to these guys about it, but you were afraid to have the mic in your hand, Cross Street right here, Moni Cristo, get a Juliet cocktail with a Belvedere in there and let it be had. Right, and just drink Belvedere now for the rest of your lives. Word. Well, I'll be happier for it.

It's not John Gruden. This is a thing I used to love doing with my co-host back in the day. And I always like making this joke about Danny Cannell because I've made it to his face and we did it on the show. but he's the only quarterback I've ever met my entire life who didn't want to actually play. He would argue with Garopolo, he'd be like, why does he want out of there? Like, you're the only dude that would be happy

being a backup for seven or eight years. Like most people actually do want to play eventually. I think Nathan Peterman hasn't. Well, see, even Peterman gets crushed here. So what we would do is we would do this thing, it would be like, how well do you know your co-host? So with Mays and Kevin here, how well do you guys know each other as co-hosts of your podcast?

and I'll start here asking Robert about Kevin. Uh-oh. All right. Let's do it. Here we go. This is a coach that Kevin's, that Kevin thinks is really good, but others don't. It's not the one we mentioned earlier. That would have been my guess.

Now I don't know. I really don't know. Who is it? Sean McDermott. You guys host the NFL ringer show together or? That's good. That's, well, we've all that. That was tough.

That was tough. Because Sean McDermott's not a good coach. So it's kind of hard to land on that. But he is a good coach. It's the thing. Okay. Why I think that. Kevin.

Yeah. Robert believes this is the most underrated player of his lifetime. Is it Julius Peppers? Who he thinks is the greatest player in the history of football? On defense, that's, that's, that is the answer. You want to guess? Yeah, I mean, that's actually the right answer. Wait, is the offense?

Is it Jay Cutler? No, on offense, on offense, we've already talked about it today. Right. Not Nathan Peterman. Oh. It is a quarterback, though. Oh, Philip Rivers, yeah. That's right, though.

You got the peppers one right there. He talks about it a lot. The thing is, is if one guy goes four for four and the other guy goes, oh, for four, then you start to think, like, how important am I in your life? Okay, Robert. Kevin still believes in this much debated QB.

Famously. When everybody else doubts this man, Kevin comes in after a nationally televised game after a few airmailed throws on third down and says, you know what, if they just called the right plays for, you're a big Stafford guy but I don't think that's it

I'm terrible at this game he's had a recently fired coach was his head coach or was his coordinator yeah yeah no I got it I fixed it confused him more now Andy Dolm Eddie Dolm

Oh that's oh my God Yes I'm sorry I'm terrible at this I should have said would introduce to your daughter but may not build a franchise around this time all right Okay

Robert thinks if this player does not get into the Hall of Fame, they should disband the Hall of Fame. It's an offensive lineman, right? No. No, no. You're on the wrong side of my brand here, but that's a good guess. Think special. Adam Vinetary?

I don't even know. Devin Hester. Devin Hester. Oh, my God. Okay, all right. So we'll end on these. This is the only restaurant that Kevin will go to because they're located near NFL practice facilities and it believes in the brand.

It is Panera bread. All right. that one I was definitely going to get. And finally, Robert has a soft spot for this NFL city. So many do not want to be assigned to to cover a game. Minneapolis? No, that one's a good one too. But no, it's even weirder than that.

Oh, God. I think, yeah, think worse. No offense to anyone there from the city. I've heard it's really underrated. Cincinnati? It is. Yes. How about that?

Strong finish. Again, thanks everyone. You guys for coming out. Make sure you subscribe, rate and review to the Ringer NFL show with Mays and Kevin. And, of course, the dual threat.

We'll be out on every night after the college football playoff. Frank is coming out. And this is great. Let's head over there. Let's take some pictures and hang out and have a couple of Belvedeers, a couple Julietts.

And thanks so much again, everybody here for coming.