The Ringer NFL Show - Odell's New Deal, Donald's Holdout, and Wentz's Return | GM Street (Ep. 288)

Episode Date: August 27, 2018

The Ringer's Michael Lombardi and Tate Frazier discuss Odell Beckham Jr.'s new deal in New York, Aaron Donald's holdout and the Rams' preseason plan, Carson Wentz's Week 1 status, and Week 3 preseason thoughts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It is Monday. It is August 27th, after a full preseason weekend, a lot of stuff going on. We have the biggest news in the NFL world. It finally comes true. Money, money, money. He's already chained into the world. Ferris Bueller finally gets paid. He's driving around town to New York and his new car.

OBJ finally gets his big contract worth $95 million, the highest ever fully guaranteed amount for a wide receiver. $41 million with $65 million in total guarantees. Michael Lombardi, he did it. Objay has his contract. You know, I think it's actually a win for the Giants as much. I think it's a win-win. When Sammy Watkins got $16 million, you know, off of the couple seasons he's had, and Jarvis Landry gets 15-1 and doesn't put the ball in the end zone. As much as we kid about

Odell, the guy's got 38 touchdowns, he puts the ball in the end zone. He makes plays. Somehow the guy had to get paid. Now, I thought anything over 20 would have been ridiculous and anything under 20, I think is a win for the Giants and a win for the player. I think it helps. I think it helps the player. I think it helps Julio Jones. I think it helps A.J. Green. I think it helps those guys get more coin. But I think it's a win-win for both. So let's look at the rest of the receivers that you're talking about. So we got Antonio Brown, who's right around 17 million per year. We got Mike Evans who had that 55 million and guaranteed money. And then we have the Sammy Watkins was around 16 million. And then we have the 16-2 deal

that we saw cooks get. So that's sort of what the wide receiver market was. And OBJ going into this offseason said, I'm going to be on my best behavior. I'm going to work out. I'm going to prove to Gettleman and this whole new staff with, you know, the new head coach, new everyone that's coming in, that I'm buying into the Giants. And they give him the deal that he wants. Right. And I think this starts really back in January when the Giants believed that they were not the team that they played to last year, that they felt they were much more talented, that McAdoo and Jerry Reese didn't do the things in either one of their jobs to make this an effective. team. So I think the Giants felt their core was in place. And so now that they had, you know,

that included Beckham. So they hired an offensive coach, Pat Shermer, to come in. Beckham was always going to be part of the transition. Eli was going to be part of the transition. The Giants have made it very clear that they like their team. And, you know, based on what I've seen in the preseason so far, I think obviously they're going to be really good on offense. If Eric Flowers can hold up at right tackle, I think their offensive line is much improved. They're going to be able to run the ball with Barclay. They're going to be able to do some things out of the passing game. I think this is going to be a really good offensive football team. And if they play from in front, they can be a really good defensive team if Olivier Vernon's healthy and they can rush the passer.

So Beckham was always a part of it. People talked about in the office, well, they were trying to trade them. They want two number ones. Well, nobody's going to give up two number ones and then pay $19 million a year. I mean, that's just, that's, you're paying on both ends. That can't work. You're sitting two first-run picks and then taking the headache of dealing with the contract. He's 25 years old. He's entering the fifth and final year of his working contract. which is around 8.4 million. And the interesting part about this whole conversation was the cap space that the Giants actually had in-house.

And the way that it worked out right is because OBJ was counting towards the caps. They were able to find the wiggle room there to get that big deal for it. As of this morning, the Giants had the 31st least amount of cap room of any team. The Rams have less. So they can take that and how they massage this. Now, the key component of all deals for anybody who's analyzing deals is twofold. It's guaranteed money and it's the first three years. What is the average of the first three years of the deal?

That's what matters most. And if it's 19 million or whatever, you know, then that's what truly what the deal is. OBJ is 20 million. That's what Ian Rapport is saying is 20 million over the first three seasons. So he got his 20 million number and the Giants got their number on the five. And if you're looking at it from the Giants perspective, you're saying, look, for five years, we got him for 18, 5 or whatever the totals come out to be on the true value of the contract. You know, so on the long term, he should only be 30 at that point.

So he should still be an effective player. He's got a chance to actually add another contract to this if he stays healthy. To me, I think he should go all fool in LeBron James. If I'm OBJ, I would go fool LeBron James. I'd hire somebody to cook for me. I'd just start taking care of my body like you wouldn't believe because it's spending a million dollars on your body in the offseason. Every year, because look, you're 25 years old.

There's another contract out there. There's another deal out there. And Jerry Rice at 30 was still an effective wide receiver in the NFL. You don't have to go off the cliff. I think, you know, contentment on this contract will be the only way he doesn't get another big contract. And for people that didn't see this, as soon as it was reported by Ann Rapport that this deal was getting done, Sterling Shepard, another wide receiver, obviously in that Giants locker room very close with OBJ. He takes a video on Instagram just, you know, playing the song, money, money, money, dancing around with OBJ dancing. I know that the whole off season was all about OBJ is all about business.

He's buying in to what the Giants are doing. If you just gave him this big contract, you're Dave get over to these guys, and he's been so great, and he's been working out with Eli after practice. We've heard all these great reports about how he's fully buying in. If you see that reaction, or is it Joviu and fun and laugh at what he is?

Are you a little concerned that now that you did pay him, he's already celebrating another thing? I mean, this is who the Giants are, right? You can't change him at this point. This is who you are. You bought all in on this. one, you know, I think you can probably have some language in there that, look, let's not take a trip to Miami on a playoff weekend. But I think you're all in on this. This is kind of what you bought into and this is what you want as an organization. And I think the key is going to be, now that you've paid all this money. They're going to have to draft a quarterback. It's not Davis Webb. It's not the kid from Richmond, right? It's not going to be those guys that are going to be the guy throwing. And they're not in a situation where they can go sign a Kirk Cousins because they don't have the cap room now. Right now. You know, this number is going to, that's why we have to see the spread of the deal. but this number is going to be the quarterback equivalent number.

So they need a young quarterback. If you did this deal, just hypothetically, say they drafted Darnold and you did this deal. You have a really cheap quarterback, and then you paid Beckham as your quarterback for the next five years. It kind of fits better. But this way it's going to be a challenge. They're going to have to dig deep into their scouting portfolio and find that guy. And it's not going to come from where they have it on the roster. I think it's pretty much clear that Davis Webb, if he's a backup, that's about the best he's going to be.

and the kid from Richmond, that's not going to happen either. So, you know, I think that's what they're going to have to do and they're going to have to see how it plays out. But look, I think for Beckham, it's a great deal for him. He got paid. He was told he was going to get paid. And, you know, the way he celebrates, I think it's just typical of what they do. And look, I truly think the East is up for grabs.

I really do. I think we've seen the East in the past. There's always gone worse to first, right? And, you know, with the Carson-Winson, we'll talk about that. later in this podcast. Carson Wentz's situation where he is, you know, Washington, where they are as a football team. And then, of course, the Cowboys. Yeah, the depth in Dallas is something much maligned at this point. You know, I tweeted out yesterday about how the Cowboys should call on Teddy Bridgeworth. Look, I think, I learned this last year when the Texans lost, remember,

the Texans start Tom Savage to begin the season, then they finally wake up and put Deshaun in there. And then they lose him. And they end up with the fourth pick overall in the draft that goes to Cleveland because they made the trade. Now, I know they lost a bunch of other guys, which hurts their defense, but that's how close this whole thing is in terms of being great and being bad. There's such a fine line, such a margin. And I think that when you watch Cooper Rush play like you did last night, you can't put him out there. People said, don't overreact. It's only a, no, no, it's time to overreact. You don't have a backup quarterback if you're Dallas. You haven't had a backup quarterback. You've been letting Scott Lenehan kind of control who he wants as a backup.

based on his comfort and knowledge, you better go out and find yourself a backup because your team could be a playoff team or could be picking in the top 10 depending on the health of the quarterback. Yeah, we're talking about like Kellyn Moore being a guy that you had his backup. Yeah, like you knew he wasn't any good, but he knew what to do, right? It's what I call a bus driver player. Well, it's the Jason Garrett type, right? It's just a guy that's smart knows how to handle himself in a room. They can get the bus to the stadium, right? But once the bus gets to the stadium, they can't do anything else. You know, like when I was in Oakland, Rob Ryan used to wanted this linebacker, you know, he always wanted them on the team. And I'm like, you know,

the guy can't really do anything. I called him a bus driver player because he could get on the bus. He'd tell the bus driver where the stadium was because, God forbid, if he wasn't on the bus, we'd never know where he was. And then once we got to the game, he was as worthless as I was in the stadium. That's how it goes. Let's talk about another big contract that came out, and that was out of the New England Patriots, and that is Shaq Mason, 310-pound guard.

He gets a $50 million contract extension with $23.5 million guaranteed. That's being reported right now. So two big deals, right? We got one in New England, one in New York today. Well, there's cap room. I mean, look, you got to sign your own players. There's not enough good players at the free agent market. I mean, that's the one thing.

Both 25-year-olds too. Yeah, look, there's not a better kid in the world than Shaq Mason. Shaq Mason played in the Senior Bowl. He played at Georgia Tech. Yes, and the option, the triple option, Paul Johnson. Never really, never really solemn pass protect. When he went to the Senior Bowl, he struggled in past protection. But here was the thing that, to me, was most appealing about Shaq Mason.

Shack Mason had no habits. He had no good ones and he had no bad ones. So you could mold this player. It was a blank slate. It was a blank slate. And so when we took him, and remember, this kid wasn't invited to the combine, right? We took Trey Jackson ahead of him in the fourth round. Then we took Shaq later in the fourth.

But this kid, to me, and there was a lot of situations in that draft where, you know, Shaq didn't have the grades to really be in the fourth round to support himself based on, you know, what was these scouts couldn't really see him as a potential starter, which is what the fourth round's all about. But when we went to Georgia to work out David Andrews, David Andrews was also working out at the same facility with Shaq Mason. And so we worked out Mason, we worked out Andrews and, you know, talking to David, David, what do you think about this guy?

What do you think about that guy? And he's like, well, I work out with Shaq Mason. So I said, well, what do you think of Mason? He said, well, Mason's going to be a center. So Andrews is a center. and he thinks Mason's the center, and they're competing against one another. So come draft day, we draft Mason in the fourth round. And now we're trying to sign David Andrews after the draft as a college free agent.

So I'm on the phone with Andrews trying to sign them because I developed a relationship with the kid. He thought he was going to be a fifth, sixth round pick. It's developed a relationship with the kid. I would text him. And so I had to convince him at that point, no, we're playing Mason at Guard. We want you to be a center. And we ended up beating the Cowboys, interesting enough. I mean, the money was the same.

And we picked the Cowboys, he picked us, he picked the Patriots over the Cowboys, and we got him. But those, but what he told us about Mason to me was one of the reasons why we drafted him. He was so athletic. And Dante Scarnacki was not with the organization at the time as the line coach. He was a consultant helping out in scouting. Bill saw Mason. We sent Dante down there to work him out. And he worked him out.

And he was like, look, we can make this kid into a good player. I've never seen a guy knock people on their backs as much as Mason did his rookie season. Every day of practice. 2015, yeah, comes in the league. He would put people on his back every time. Knock them backwards. Knock him back. And he would always have a bad play where he whiff on a protection.

But he got better. And I'm just happy for this kid because he deserves it. And people say, well, you know, he settled for, he could have got a lot more on the open market. Yes and no. Here's the difference. When you play guard for the Patriots, you can't get traded to, let's say, Denver and play for Denver immediately. Scheme fits are really important with offensive linemen. How many offensive linemen have we seen leave teams and go to another team and two years of their cut from somebody else?

J.R. Sweezy, let's use him for an example, right? Leave Seattle. To me, if you're Shaq Mason, it's more important to earn the money all five years than it is to take the money to the highest bidder. Because you might get more guaranteed, but you're never going to get the length of the contract. So the length of the contract is as important. It's a great deal for New England. Make no mistake about it. The kid took less money. But he saw the value of time. I got five years there. as opposed to taking a deal and going to Atlanta and maybe not fit into Atlanta scheme, and then he gets cut. Yeah, and it also gives the Patriots, right? They have flexibility because they still have to figure out Gatskowski's contract.

They'd figure out Tray Flowers. There's a couple players that are still trying to figure out how to rejigger everything under the cap with these guys. So they take, you know, Mason takes this deal for them, gives them more flexibility as a team. And also, I mean, Mason is now, I think Zach Martin, let me, yeah, Zach Martin is the only right guard, right? that's the league leading right guard ahead of him. So he's already making good money.

He's making it really good. But I think the key here is he could earn the whole contract. People lose sight of that. People lose because we're in such an instant. He's 30s just like OBJ, 25 to 30. And he can get another contract. But he'll earn all the money. If you go through all the linemen that have left in free agency, have they earned all the money? You know, is Ron Leary going to earn all the money from Denver? You know, he left Dallas. Is he going to earn all his money? Is did J.R. Sweezy earn all his money from Tampa? No. You know, it's saying Beatles that he earn all his money when he left. No, of course, they don't.

So when you can stay in a scheme that you're familiar with and you feel like you could earn the amount of money, I think it's a smart play. It's a great situation for New England because New England's basically saying, I'm Shaq, if you don't take this deal, we're not going to be able to afford it anymore. And a kid took comfort over the quick fix. And 41 stars in 46 games. That's what you want from offense. One of the great workers, I think there's like, look, you want your kid. You want every player to be like Shaq Mason, didn't get disturbed. It wasn't bothered.

He wasn't drafted. You know, wasn't invited to the combat. He made the best of the situation. Likes football. He's physical. I think it's a great, you know, and I will say this. If he played in a different era, if he played and more of where he pulled the guards, more and played in space, this is one of the most athletic players I've ever seen and play offensive line.

He is one of the best run blockers in football. I mean, for people that watch tape on this guy. He is. And that comes from playing, you know, you're a triple option. That's what you do. Right. He had a block on Keeckley this week that on the screenplay, Edelman's screenplay for like 11 yards.

And he just, he flattened Kikley. I mean, he's a physical explosive player. It's a great deal for New England. Don't get me wrong, but it's also a good deal for Shaq. No, he's going to be there. We're going to take a quick break here. And then we're going to come back. We're going to talk about the Khalil Mack trade potential and also Aaron Donald

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and you know that guy who whines about the rest before the game even starts. The guy whose day ritual is wearing Giants themed underwear and nothing else. Or that friend who got a Super Bowl champs tattoo for the losing team. Yeah, that guy. Turns out he was just hungry. Get the man of Snickers and get your game day back on track. Get a Snickers NFL Hunger Bar today in a store near you. And we are back and we are talking about this has been a topic pretty much the entire offseason

as far as holdouts and some of these big name guys, on the defensive line that a lot of people are waiting to see. Aaron Donald is probably the biggest name. Khalil Mack is also up there with the Raiders. And then Earl Thomas is sort of forgotten about a little bit, but we're going to talk about all three of those guys here. But first, let's talk about just the Rams in general. Shaw McVeis coming out to the world.

And he's saying he's worried about injuries with his team. We obviously haven't seen Jared Gough from the preseason. We really haven't seen the real Rams. I mean, we saw Sue have that big hit on Deshawn Watson this weekend. That was probably the most impactful play we've seen from the New Look Rams. But what is the plan in Los Angeles? It seems like Mouvet is fine to just kind of roll things out and get ready for the real season. Well, I think the plan is, look, they practiced against Baltimore.

So they got some game reps against them. And then, you know, so they had that situation. And I think he's talked to a bunch of other coaches around the league. And I think everybody's so scared about these injuries, they're back and way off. And, you know, last year, golf threw 32 passes in the preseason. I thought that was really light for him. You know, 32 passes for a kid that really didn't play that much. but he made it work.

So they're obviously getting good enough reps practice in these games situation. And I think the Rams practiced against another team during the summer. I think they had two in-season. Maybe it was Houston that they went against. I'm not sure. But I feel like they had two.

And because of that, I think that McVeigh's taking the approach that, look, I'm getting my work with these other teams. I don't need it in the game where I can save my quarterback. And maybe that's going to work. Maybe it's not. I think the schedule is much more dramatically different now.

And is it more of a cat and mouse game, too? Because we have seen some of these teams in the preseason not really want to show. Like we were talking about the chiefs last week. They're basically running the Alex Smith's offense with Pat Mahomes right now because they don't want to give away what the offense will look like. I mean, is there something with the Rams? Yeah, I think the Rams definitely know that they can't come back and run the same. Because we saw it in the playoffs last year. They got keyed in on and every single, you know, people knew that Gough was getting all these signals in from the sideline.

And he wasn't necessarily making an adjustment. You know, the worst quarterback in the playoffs last year, I think McBae smart enough to know that, look, everybody studied his tape. I think every team in the league, every coordinator in the league, every offensive coach in the league broke down Rams tape. That was the most important offseason project. They broke it all down. So they're taking the RAM tape and they're saying, okay, here's what the Rams do. We've got to play them this way. And McBay smart enough to know that, okay, this is what we're going to see a lot more of.

We need to handle that. How are we going to do it? There's no sense in showing it in the preseason. We better save it. You know, I go both ways on this. I wasn't a fan of it last year because I'm old school in the sense that I think you've got to practice football to be good at football. I think the more you don't do this, I think the September games are going to be hard for teams. But look, September is not what you're getting your team ready for.

Jay Gruden had a statement the other day. I'm just getting my guys healthy to the opener. See, to me, that's way wrong, right? That's what we saw Hugh say that as well. Right. Like the opener isn't the season. Like your job as a head coach is to get your team ready. to be at its maximum level in December, after Thanksgiving and December.

That's where you want your team to be operating at its highest maximum level. And the only way to do that is to continually work now all the way through that. The teams that win, look, we can go back through it all. Three in one in September, you might not make the playoffs. Two and two, you might not. September is still about preseason. And so last year I rushed a judgment on it. I'm going to stop and say, you know what, I think we should.

should just take a break here and see where the Rams are after September and what they need to do and fix their team because most teams in the league this year are going to play four games in September and the ones that go forward and make the run to the Super Bowl are the ones that adjust their team and figure it out. Al Davis should say this all the time. We need to make about 10 moves. Now, we never really did all the time. We need to make about 10 moves during the season to alter our team a little bit so that we can adjust to what we see based on what happens. The Patriots do it all the time. They, you know, they're the king of the ten. Right. Of course. Right. And if you don't do that, you know, if you think this is going to be

the way you're going to go, it's not going to work out that way. Well, let's talk about, I mean, the biggest storyline, too, is that we do have Aaron Donald who is, you know, setting himself up to be the highest paid, you know, defensive tackle. And then that will then set the market for Calil Mack and we'll see how it all plays out. But Shaw McVeigh came out and it was very interesting. You know, he says that he's very hopeful to see Aaron Donald soon by even the end of the week is what he's given a timeline, which is a little surprise. I don't think a lot of people. We haven't heard much out of Oakland.

We obviously, you know, the Carson win situation. We'll talk about that a little bit later. But it is strange for McVay to be so forward-facing with this whole situation with Donald. So it seems like good things will happen. We just saw OBJ get this deal. I mean, are the Rams going to figure this out? I mean, the Rams have to figure it out. I mean, look, Donald's counting on their cap now.

So they do have some wiggle room, even though they have the least amount of cap room in the national football league. But, I mean, I think where McVe is coming from is, is he feels like they can get this deal done. They're not out of the ballpark. I think the Beckham deal kind of helps them a little bit because it's not over 20 million. If he goes over 20 million, now you're in that quarterback landscape, even though would you trade Aaron Donald for Odell Beckham? No. I know Beckham puts the ball in the end zone, but Donald controls the middle of the field, which is more important. So what do you value?

You know, Donald is at that tackle market, which is way less than the end market. So, you know, he's already inflated his game, and they're saying they're paying him. because he's such a dominant tackle. But that being said, I mean, I think it behooves the Rams. They've put all their chips in the middle of the table. They've got to get a deal done. And it is kind of interesting that the guy that is sort of the peg for the DT that you give the big contract is now on the Rams. And that contract didn't get, you know, it was 2015 when Miami gives Indomacan Su the $114 million deal, a six-year deal.

But he never earned all six. Exactly. So just like we were talking about earlier, the Lyman didn't earn all six and now he's here on the Rams. He's sort of trying to have to earn that again. So there is a little bit of a hesitation. if you are the Rams just looking at, you know, what has happened in the past when you do give these big deals and something. Right.

And I think the Rams have to build their team. And I think the Rams are another team like, like we'll talk about this with Philadelphia. I think the Rams have to use September. The schedule is going to be way harder for them in September. You know, they open up in Oakland in a hard game because they both know each other fairly well. John Gruden, you know, Sean McVade was there. It's going to be, the schedule is going to be way tougher for the Rams that they're going to have to use September to figure out where they are.

And let's talk about Oakland. You just brought them up. and the whole Gruden situation. So Kalil Mack, there have been rumors all around that certain teams are interested in Kalil Mak and willing to make a trade. The most interesting part, right, is that Kalil Mack's value is a little bit less than a lot of people thought. So, you know, we talked about OBJ.

The league thing was that the Giants were looking for two firsts for him. And that does not seem to be the price for Kalil Mack because you are taking on the headache of having to figure out his contract. Right. I think the problem with Mack starts with what his demands are. I mean, that really, you can't trade for a guy who wants 24, 25, you mean, you can't do it. I mean, nobody's going to, if there's no market there, you have to become more flexible. And I think that's the challenge for the Raiders. And look, the Raiders have no choice, but either rent him or

trade him. And if they rent him and he plays on the one year, they'll have a two go out and sign a huge contract and free agent, right? So they'll get a compensatory three. So why wouldn't you take something less than a compensatory three for the guy right now? Now, I'm not saying the Raiders are going to do that. Nobody's told me that. But my point being is, is the Raiders realize that this road is coming to an end here. You're going to have to make a decision. And, you know, they've got a young player in Arden Key. They've got a lot of younger defensive players. They can't pay everybody. You know, you got car. You've paid him a boatload of money. You got Cooper. You can't pay all the players. You've got to make some decisions. And if you find a defensive lineman in the third round like Arden Key,

who looks like he can become another good rusher that maybe you have to, you don't want to let Mac go. He's too talented. But you've got to have to make some decisions. Yep. Key out of LSU. And then just talking about like Gruden and just the operations there, it seems like a lot of moving parts. We joked about that in the summer that John Gruden has kind of changed his team, you know, a million times over during this 10-year run that he has with the Raiders. So, you know, what is, it is weird that he's been basically mute on anything Kalil-Mac-related, right? Yeah, I think, you know, the fact that nobody's really talked to Mac is kind of strange for me. Like, you know, one thing, I know the rules prevent you from doing a lot of this, but, you know,

at some point you have to reach out and have some kind of communication with the player if you can, you know, and talk to them about where you're going. But this really, to me, comes down to, like most issues. It comes down to money. And I'm sure John's probably realized, look, we just can't afford this guy. So there's no sense in me kind of getting into that web of, I'm never going to get this player because we're never going to be able to get there. And he's changing the team around from where Reggie saw the team to where he needs the team

to be. Remember, the best teams in this league are run from what they do for the head coach. The head coach has to set the vision, the culture, and then you can build it. because what Reggie wants to do and what John knows he needs to do are two different things. And I do have to ask me, if there is a team that is out there

that has the cap room that is willing to trade and then take on the negotiations of this whole situation with Cluel Mc. I mean, is that even, is that fathomable? I think it's a double-edged sword. I mean, you've got to give up a pick. We've heard the jets.

I mean, so say you give up a second round pick for Mac, for Mac, okay, you get a better player than what you're going to pick, but you lose so much in economic value. You know, say you give up two twos. If you choose to me, are the most valuable commodity in the NFL. So it's hard to give it up.

I would rather give up a bottom one than give up a two-toes, you know, because it's just the value is so much stronger. You can get a potential starter for four years at really cheap numbers that you can maybe transfer into a better contract. You know, I think because it's so much that the agent's looking for so much,

that again, this is like the Earl Thomas deal. Just come in and play. You'll get your money when you get to the market. You're just going to have to wait. You can't get your money right now. And let's talk about Earl Thomas, because that is the third domino that is still out there. You would think two, three years ago, right?

That would probably be the biggest talking point, that Earl Thomas, the best safety in the league, that won these super rules, the Legion of Boom and everything. We're talking about him holding out. But for whatever reason, he hasn't been the talking point. And it was interesting, Bobby Wagner came out, the middle linebacker, obviously, with the Seahawks. And he was saying that it seems to, it's a struggle for the defensive players

to get paid like they should and that it's all about offense now. And we're sort of cast aside. You could tell, I mean, you were talking about people who need to talk to each other. He's obviously trying to use the media to talk to ownership there. You can't pay everybody, though. So he brings up the Sue deal. He brings up Vaughn Miller getting basically the same deal, $114 million over six years. And he's just saying, you know, Earl Thomas is, you know, he's looking for that third contract and yada, yada, yada.

He deserves to get paid because of what he's done on the field and he needs to get paid for his production. But now we're in this weird, you know, back and forth. When now Earl Thomas is just becoming, you know, it's a major headache on this defense. All those points I agree with you on. Just why don't you come and play? You have one more year left on your deal. Why do you have to get paid now when you have another year on your deal? Like that's the one thing.

And then you put the- It's a game of leverage, right? They're both trying to play it on the other side. But he has really no leverage. He's getting fined about $40,000 a day. I mean, that's adding up now. And if you're in Seattle, you ain't given up that. You know?

And to me, Dallas has other issues that they got to worry about more than just the free safety. Could they use Earl Thomas? I'm not arguing that with anybody. However, to me, they better get a backup quarterback on that team. you know, where are they at center right now? Are they okay at center? They don't really have a backup left tackle. You know, they tried Cam Fleming out there yesterday.

They basically had to stay in Y, Y, Y, wing over there on Fleming's side because he's never going to be able to handle anybody alone. They got some issues they're going to have to figure out before they can get to, we got a free safety. You just can't have every player, right? And to me, I don't get the Earl. Look, I'm saying on one hand, Earl Thomas deserves to get whatever he should get based on his production.

But he has another year left. So play 16 games or play nine games. Get your accrued season. You're going to get your money. I don't understand why the team has to pay right this minute when you have a contract. The rules were set up to not have this. And it just seems like Earl Thomas is already set on this being the case. Or it's maybe his way to say, I don't want to be in Seattle and I want you to find another trade partner for me.

Right. But if you're Seattle, you're just saying, hey, look. Take the fines and we'll see what happens. Eventually you're going to come back to us, right? Because you've got to set a message to your locker room. Like, look, I'm going to, you know, until you show up and start playing, I'm not trading. But does it concern you that, you know, your Super Bowl MVP, you know, arguably the best middle linebacker in all football, Bobby Wagner is, I mean, obviously they're very close and they've been together. I mean, does that change?

We talk about leadership at the locker room, especially on the defensive side of the football. Does it concern you if you were a GM in that front office and he's sort of kind of carrying weight for, you know. I think players, players say with players, players, I mean, players defend players. And it's a business and you have to understand it. Look, I think Seattle's a much improved team. I think their offensive lines much better. Swayze was actually a great person to bring back just because of fit. I mean, yeah, he fits what they want to do.

I think that, you know, you look defensively. Are they perfect? No, they could use another defensive lineman. But I think they're starting to get back to where they want to become. And, you know, I don't see them as an easy out, but I don't see them as dominating as they once were. And Wilson, you know, look, he's still a good player. So he's going to make plays in their offense. They've got better receivers.

I thought Brandon Marshall looked good last week. And I was, I'm not a big Brandon Marshall fan, but I thought he had more juice in them that I'd seen in a while against Minnesota. I think Seattle's good. Look, if I'm John Schneider, I'm just saying, hey, look, I love you, Earl. You're a great player. We want you here. Come in. If you want to become a free agent, we'll let you become a free agent at the end of the year. We're not going to franchise you. You don't want to be here. We're not going to have anybody doesn't want to be here. Absolutely. Let's talk about the Cowboys, too, you brought them up about depth is the thing that has been very interesting about this team. And they sort of, you know,

we talked about the Rams. They took a similar approach on Sunday night. So they get no DAC out there, no Ezeko Elliott, no Tyrone Smith, no Sean Lee. Randy Gregory was back. He looked good. I mean, I thought Randy Gregory looked like Charles Haley out there. We're 94, so maybe that made me think he was Charles Haley, but he looked like the real deal. I mean, Randy, if you get Randy Gregory and the Marcus Lawrence coming off the edge, you know, you got two premier edge inside guys. Collins is out because of the foot injury, but they'll get him eventually, hopefully get him back at some point.

They get an inside rush, David Irving, when he comes off suspension. Those are three. Taco Charlton. Another guy. Right. But those three guys, forget Charlton. Just take those two outs edge guys. And you put David Irving inside. You got three blue chip players almost inside on your defensive front. You can play zone with team speed in the back. And one of those guys is going to be single block. They're going to win. I mean, that's a pretty good front. And you keep the ball in front of you. And you play good. You got one of the best field goal kickers in football. And if you could run the ball, I mean, there's a formula to win 10 games right there. There's a really good formula if those guys are healthy and able to go. And that goes back to what we were talking about in the NFCEs is very wide open. And it's going to, you know, obviously the Eagles did that last year, what they did with their front seven and how they were able to get up the field. I mean, look, the Eagles gave up 500 yards passing at a drop up, you know, their secondary was really Malcolm Jenkins. He was really the key to what they did.

Now, the Cowboys, they're a little bit better in the back end. I think they, you know, I think to me, where they got a fix is they got to make sure that if they can't, they can't lose their quarterback and lose their season. Because they got a chance if it goes right. because they got some blue chip players up front. Now, Irving's going to miss some time. Gregory, I don't know if he's missed his time, you know, but DeLorence is going to miss time. He's there.

He's healthy now. So for me, I think they got a chance. And it is crazy to think that, you know, Randy Gregory, it feels like he just got here, but he was drafted in the second round in 2015. So, yeah. I mean, look, what I can remember being at Nebraska. I was in Cleveland at the time.

I was watching tape on Nebraska. And Collins was a true freshman. And Gregory was a JC. transfer. And I watched those two guys playing along with Vincent Valentine. They had a front at Nebraska that was really formidable. They were really good. And, you know, for whatever reasons, they haven't, you know, Valentine hasn't been able to get off blocks as well as he could. You know, Collins could be a really good three technique penetrator. He's got good quickness. He's a young kid too. And to me, Gregory was a dominant guy. He could come off the edge. It's just been the off the field issues with Gregory has held him back. Well, let's stay in the NFC East. And let's talk about another situation that's, you know, caused a lot of iron intrigue, especially up in the Philadelphia world. We're talking about Carson Wins, the franchise quarterback of the Philadelphia Eagles. It's obviously coming out off this ACL injury that we all know about. And Doug Peterson continues to get asked about the situation. And it seems like he's getting a little bit more testy and testier as we get closer to week one because Carson Wins put it out there that he was aiming to come back week one.

But doctors have not cleared him for physical contact. We have seen him in 11-on-11. But it does not seem like he is going to be the starting quarterback, especially when you have the Super Bowl, you know, winning MVP. Nick Foles. But the interesting part about this is that their first team offense has scored no points in the preseason. And then when you look last year, I mean, last year they did. I mean, last year, Wendz averaged over 10 yards per attempt. He threw three touchdown passes. He was dynamic in the preseason it happened. And then that first week it went right into. You know, we dismissed the preseason numbers as this preseason. But after you go through the season and you look at some team's preseason

numbers, they sometimes tell the story about where you are as a football team. They don't lie. They don't tell you the different things. They don't, they're not. always realistic because sometimes you're not playing your guys, but Wenz played well last year. For me, I would say, and I can understand Peterson's point, like he's tired of answering the question. For me, if I'm the Eagles, I'm not playing Wynce until October 7th against Minnesota. They open up against the South. They play the NFC South in two games. They play Indianapolis. They play Tennessee. They play Atlanta and Tampa. If I'm two and two and two coming out of September with Nick Foles, whatever I am, it doesn't matter what my record is if I get Wence back

where he's completely healthy, I got a chance to compete. Besides, I got to get the rest of my team healthy. I got so many guys standing on the sideline, whether it's Jason Peters, whether it's Darren Sprouls, whomever it is, I got too many guys. And I did see, I think it was Albert Breer wrote a piece on Monday Morning Quarterback. He had interviewed Doug Peterson, but he was talking about that core of guys that missed the Super Bowl, you know, those talented guys that missed out on the game,

they are like setting the agenda for this season because they want to have that experience. They didn't have it last year. So he does have a nice little core, which is a little unique. And when you play in the Super Bowl, you play two weeks. I mean, everything's longer. There's more of a season. And you're dealing with them.

I mean, New England's gone to seven conference championship games in a row. They've played so many more games than most of these other teams that it wears and wear and tear on your team. It gets you. And I think for Philadelphia, I'm using September easily. I don't want Wentz back. I know if Eagle fans want to see Wentz in the game, but look, you're going to have to win the game with your defense. You win the game with your running game. When the game Nick Foles makes enough plays, you know, you go out there and play Atlanta.

Don't get caught up in September. Get caught up in where you're going to be after Thanksgiving. That's the goal of the off-season. That's the goal of preseason is where are we going to be come Thanksgiving. And if we lose a few guys along the way, so be it. Because look, last year they lost guys along the way. Their debt proved to be correct. I would be very careful with Wince.

I would be really extra careful with Wence. I'd like to get Wence back in there. The guy's coming off a major ACL. No, nobody knows, did he have an MCL tear in there too? Did he have other parts that were bad? I mean, has he got some cartilage damage in there? I mean, how much? Nobody's ever gone.

None of the people that are saying, get wence back, has seen his post-op surgery notes. Nobody has, right? So it could have been pretty severe in there. I mean, look, it looked bad, right? And now he's only eight weeks off the injury, eight months off the injury. That's remarkable. He can't, and then you're going to play at a high level when one of the things he can do more than anybody is run around.

I mean, I don't think you want to do that at all. It seems like the comeback off in ACL, the Adrian Peterson effect has really lingered. A lot of people when you would tear your ACL, people thought it was a year. Yeah, a year. At best, you know, and you hope that they come back as the same person, but Adrian Peterson comes back and it's even better in some

capacities. So, I mean, people kind of have bought in the idea that ACL you can easily come back from. We're 10 days away from that opener with Jason Kelsey on the line right there with, you know, someone's supposed to be behind him. That doesn't seem right now. It's not realistic.

It's not realistic. To me, so there's got to be a target date, October 7th against Minnesota. To me, that would be the right target date. And that's the contender that you have in the NFC, right? You got to beat them.

You got a bunch of, you got to play Atlanta, which is going to be a hard game weather. You know, you can't have them there. Trulio makes that catch, you know, I mean, we can go back and go through that four down calls.

But it is just amazing. Like, those are the teams. So Atlanta, you have to worry about because you know you're going to have to face them in the playoffs. Minnesota, you're probably going to have to face them in the playoffs. So all these teams, you got to test yourself, see where you are. Because it's going to probably come down to the wild card, who beat who, hand-ahead, and all that.

The thing I think is, look, you come back, you got Tampa, you got Indianapolis, and you got Tennessee. Like, I'm going to take my chances on that schedule. I'll take my chances with that. If I could keep Wentz out of those games, treat it like Brady. Brady missed four games one year, came back, was ready to go after 12 weeks. Okay, that's what I want to do. Brady walks right in, no mess. See what he does.

to me, err on the side of caution with Wins. I don't see any value in playing Wence before October 7th. And we should say it does seem that Doug Peterson is an agreement, and he said it is a medical decision. They will not rush him back. He has no plans to rush him back. Yeah, it's interesting to see because usually, you know, there's a reason you're not getting cleared for medical contact, right?

So, like, if you're cleared to go to 11 on 11, like, if I clear you to go for 11 on 11, you're pretty much cleared for physicality, right? Now, tackling, like I've never seen a guy participate in 11 on 11 that wasn't cleared by the doctor to go out there. So there's a little bit of a fine line here that, you know, he's not ready to be tackled, but yet he's ready to be in a faster setting. I don't know how to define that. I really don't. I think that I think they're airing on the side of caution. And look, I'm right. Put it on the doctor. Let him make the call. Yeah. I think that's been the smartest thing that Peter says done. It's got his decision. It's not his. Let him make the call. Let let let let let let. Let let. Let, let. Let him. him make the call and let him tell you when the player is ready to play.

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and stream every NFL Sunday ticket game this season to follow your favorite team no matter where you live. Use promo code ringer at checkout to save 15%. Exclusive student discounts are also available. Again, that's promo code ringer at checkout to save 15% back to GM Street. Let's just go through some of the preseason notes, review this week three of preseason, just some random things that happen out in the world. I want to talk about Josh Allen.

So Josh Allen gets to start Sunday for the Buffalo Bills, and a lot of people have been enthused about what they've seen from him. They have not been enthused by what they have seen from the Bill's offensive line. Geno Atkins was an absolute problem for them. He was a problem for Dallas last week, too. I mean, we talk about the best tackles. He's hard to block. I mean, because he can power the pocket. Look, I think, and people say, do you start Josh Allen or let Peterman play because the line's bad?

Well, let me ask you this question, Treyfraiser. Is the line going to get any better because Nate Peterman's playing or Josh out? Like, the line stinks. It doesn't matter who plays quarterback. If you put Peterman out there, he might get killed. Josh Allen might have to play after two plays. Until they get the line better, it doesn't really matter who's playing quarterback. They got to fix the line.

They got to come up with an idea on how they're going to handle this offensive line, this office. They try to. They signed guys, signed Bodine the center. You know, they've signed some guys to help their line. They're not playing to the level they need to play at. And obviously, it would help if they have Lechon back and let him run a little bit. It would take some of the pressure off. But to me, that's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard is, well, they should play,

they should play Peterman because the line's not good. The line ain't going to be good for him either. And I should say, Russell Bodon was in Cincinnati, was the starting center in Cincinnati going up against Gino Atkins in practice every single day. So it's there's they're a tough tough they're a tough when they're humming when the bengals are humming yesterday they're a tough group to block. I mean, you got to be really good up front. You got a game playing against them. I think Buffalo would be smart to let just let Josh Allen start to play and get better. Like whatever happened with that, Troy Aikman played all his games.

Peyton Manning played all his games. They all benefited from playing. Like nobody has benefited, like Mitchell Chubisky didn't play last week, which was remarkable to me. But he didn't, you know, like, why not just play them? The Mike Lennon thing isn't going to work for you. Like why why not just get to it right away? It seems like they're just trying to protect just the mental aspect of it, right? I'm just getting beat up because we saw with Kaiser. You throw Kaiser out there that first season with the Browns. He gets absolutely destroyed.

It doesn't really have much help. He also is getting thrown under the bus at halftime. I mean, you know, and then all of it's got to set up the game plan to help with young kid. It looks like a completely different player. It looks like a completely different player. It's getting coached. He's getting handled. Look, I think the difference is for most rookie quarterbacks happens at the line of scrimmage.

I thought Baker Mayfield has had a decent preseason. Mentally at the line of scrimmage, he's nowhere near Sam Donald. Sam Darnold can get him out of a bad play and get him into a good play. Baker Mayfield so far hasn't been able to get the protections. And when you look at their protections, I mean, in Oklahoma, it's L&R protection. The back's either going right or left. The center's going opposite of the back. He throws hot off of it.

It's all six-man protections, rarely in seven. Now he's in a seven-man protections. I mean, Thursday night, they slid the line away. He got pressure inside. I mean, there's a lot. of things he's got to handle with the line of scrimmage. He's just not ready to handle it yet. That doesn't mean he's not going to handle it. He's just not ready to handle it yet. And when you don't let him run the two minute, it makes it even harder to learn how to handle it.

You better run it. You got to get used to it because you got to make the calls. I mean, Brady comes the line of scrimmage. He points out the mic. He puts the snap count. He calls the play. A lot of shit's going on that you got to handle. And if you can't do it fast, it's hard to play. And we should say that Brown's game, a five zero score. I mean, an absolutely unbelievable game just because Miles Garrett won the game on a safety on Nick Foles. I mean, that was the difference in the game. So, I mean, if you watched that entire game, it was actually, it was a good game. I thought it was an interesting game. I enjoyed it. I mean, it was like, look, the Eagles are struggling their offensive line. By Thai still's not playing very good at left tackle.

You know, they got the rugby kid in there to put him in there at left tackle later. And he looked fascinating as a player. The Eagles didn't have any of their skill players on the field. You know, their defense could get after it a little bit. I mean, I thought it was a good game. I think the Browns leave that stadium saying, hey, look, we better make sure our line can protect too, because that game was really about both offensive lines couldn't protect. Let's talk about a team that was trying to protect all of their players and their coach, especially Mike McCarthy.

So they go out to Oakland, the Packers. And Mike McCarthy basically decided due to the baseball dirt, the infield that you see on TV all the time when you watch these Raiders game. The only stadium that has it now. James Jones, who played for the Packers, came out and said McCarthy hated his guys to play on that. He held guys out, obviously held out Aaron Rogers and other key starters. I thought the interesting part of that game was there was footage of Aaron Rogers throwing to Jordie Nelson. Obviously, Jordy's on the Raiders now.

They were thrown to each other. And then there was also a video of Derek Carr thrown to Devante Adams because they were teammates at Fresno State. So it was very interesting to have that little thing going back. Look, I can't argue with McCarthy. It's a hard thing to play on that. Remember Brian Billick took his team off the stadium in Veterans Stadium because he thought the field was so bad. It's hard to do that. I mean, I got to believe that McCarthy went to the Packerson and said, of all places,

like, you're going to make us play the game I want to get the team ready for in Oakland on that dirt, on that baseball field. Like, that's just got to break, kill you. I mean, it's one thing to make the long trek out there to go play. It's another thing to have to play it on that and not get anything out of it. And, you know, but he got a chance to look at Kaiser, got a chance to look at Hunley, who I think's gotten better. I mean, look, I think Green Bay is going to have to fix their run defense.

There's no doubt that the people can run the ball on them. Petton's going to have to challenge that. But Green Bay, from what I've seen so far in the preseason, they look like they got a chance to be much improved. They just got to beat on defense. And let's talk about some guys that are much improved. Honestly, the first time we've seen these guys really stand out. And these are two wide receivers that were top 10 picks once upon a time.

The first one is the Chicago Bears wide receiver, Kevin White, out of West Virginia, the number seven pick in 2015. He has his first NFL touchdown on Sunday. And then the Bengals, John Ross, who was the ninth overall pick in 2017, has his first pro TV. So both those guys that have been much maligned in the media. They finally get them. And the damnedest thing about this preseason week, and I just, it blew my, blew my mind away is like

the, the bears gave Matt Nagy a game ball for beating Kansas City in the preseason. Like, I've never heard of this before. Like, I've been in a thousand locker rooms in preseason games. Like, who won the game was the- It just means more. This is the preseason. I guess. I don't know. I mean, that's a damnedest thing.

Look, I think Kevin White's improved. There's no doubt. Kevin White's gotten better. We'll see how he holds up when the regular season, when press is in his face and John Ross. I mean, look, there's too much talent there to not be an effective player. The guy can flat out fly. There's a lot of reasons to believe that the Bengals are a team to watch out. There is a lot of reasons. I mean, look, there is a lot of reasons. They could get better.

I mean, you know, they have an element of their team. They can run the football. They can, you know, it's all going to come down to Dalton. I mean, look, the two teams to me that I just harp on that if they were better at the quarterback position, they would be better teams. Cincinnati and Jackson. I mean, I don't see how anybody can watch Jacksonville play Atlanta go watch that tape and tell me that they think Bortles had a good game. I mean, there were so many balls that are going to get picked off. He got picked off twice. You know, there's some that should have been picked. There was a couple that could have been picked off before. Look, I look, everybody in the NFL, and I mean this sincerely, no disrespect to Blake Bortles. But everybody in the NFL is thankful that Jacksonville won't recognize they need a better quarterback because it's kept the level of comp closer. Because if they ever did have a really good quarterback, they would say, separate themselves in the pack of the league. But do you believe that the Steelers and the Ravens? They're all happy that they want to like this. They're happy that Andy Dawton is still the quarterback of the Beatles. They're all happy that Andy's there. They won't admit it. I mean, that that's to me is the, you know,

like. If you look at that front four that Cincinnati has been put now, I mean, for quite some time under Marvin Lewis. And obviously when Zimmer was there and you, and you look at, you know, you have a blue chip real five star wide receiver on the outside of AJ Green. I mean, you have all the, all the pieces. And then that backfield with Jeremy and Gio and all these guys that have been there. They've had the former Whitworth when he was there. They have been good. I mean, look, their offensive lines getting better. You know, now, you know, mixing looks like he could be a good running back, taking

Jeremy Hill's spot. So, look, I think they're a talented team. Their defense has got a defensive front that can be really good. Yes. And they have been good at times. And Gino is a huge problem. When Gino's humming, he's is one of the hardest guys to block in football. But look, the quarterback is the separation.

I mean, I watched Jacksonville this weekend. And I, you know, look, Jacksonville's so good on defense. They're fast. They're tough to block. I've not allowed a touchdown first. They got blue chip players in their mouths. Jack is as good a linebacker as I've seen. You know, Smith is good.

They're fast. They're athletic. You know, but. In Gokwe? I mean, you just go through the list of these guys. But the guy that's going to keep them from ever getting to the next level is going to be the quarterback. It's just, it's just so obvious that if they had one that was at least, you know, I, what if Nick Foles was their quarterback? They would be better.

Yeah. They would be better. That's sort of the question. And I was like what, like Bridgewater, full, some of these backup guys that if you're a team and you just want to have depth of that position, say your Cincinnati and who knows what happens, Andy. Well, they lose Lee, right? So now they lose Lee. They're going to have to hope that the Moncrief can be productive for them that what he wasn't for Indianapolis. Yeah, Marky's Lee out for the season.

Out for the season. So now they're, you know, Chark's going to have to come through and play for him the second or the second or third round pick. He's going to come in. He's going to fill these holes because let's face it, everybody is going to force Bordals to beat him. everyone's going to force Bordels to beat them. It's just, I mean, Fournett, I think the thing that can help them more. And as you could see a little bit of it in the way they utilize it is Fournet in the past the game. If they get Fournette more involved on checkdowns, early downs, throw the ball to him on easy throws, that'll help Bortles more.

Because if the game comes down to where Bortles has got to win or lose it, it's just not going to happen. Yeah, and it is interesting. So Lee goes down and now we talked about the Y receiver market a couple weeks ago. I mean, what do you do to replace the? that production on your offense. It's got to be on your team because there's no receivers. Like, you know, last week I talked about Randall Cobb being available and then everybody was, somebody said, well, he's not available, but teams are calling to see if he's available. Can I ask you a question, take place? Who's calling the Packers to see if Randall Cobb's available when he

hasn't played in the preseason? He's coming off of ankle injury and he makes 8.6. Like, is that a phone call you're making? Oh, let me call Green Bay today and see if they'll trade Randall Cobb and two bad ankles and his 8.6. Like, seriously, you really want me to believe that? Like, everybody in the league knows Randall Cobb's available. All you do is make the call. You want to take the 8-6th. They'll give them to you, right?

So go ahead, take it. Well, it's sort of similar, right? We talked about Jarvis Landry last year in Miami. You know, it's like he was available. He was, of course. Yeah, of course, I took a lot of crap. He's not available. Their teams are making calls.

Like, he's not available, but teams are making calls. Who's making the call? Like, who wants a receiver with bad ankles? who hasn't even played. They might like Kentucky football, you know, living in the past. Look, I'm not saying that, you know, look, Randall Cobb was a good player at one time, but it's not. Funny, I got a text from somebody in the league that covers the league, really, you know,

is like everybody, and he sends me the text, everybody knows Cobb's available. Okay, great, obviously, but let's just put it in context. If you don't believe what I'm saying, that's fine. But who's call, I want to know who's calling. Like, if I'm sitting in my office as a general manager, and I'm looking at my pro board, I'm saying, well, let me call Greenberg. Bay today. Cobb makes 8.6. He's got two bad ankles. Not the same player he once was. I think I'll trade for him. Seriously. But what is the value? Like it was six right? That's the thing. You're

taking them off your head. There's no value. You know, there's no value there. I mean, he's going to have to prove there's value. Yeah. He's got to prove it. He probably can't pass a physical. He probably not, his ankles aren't better yet, you know, in terms of trading him to some other team to pass a physical. So to me, it's always funny. Yeah, it's always smoking mirrors. Let's talk about out Josh Gordon, another wide receiver that is always in the news as of late. It gets reinstated. They say he's going to dress out. He's back in Cleveland. We're going to see the full Josh Gordon experience on Hard Knocks that we will cover on this Wednesday. But you have some information about what I think. I think it was clear. I mean, I talked to some people around the league.

Josh was in Gainesville. And he was, you know, what he was doing was getting his life back in order. But there was time to work out. But I think this is the, we said last week that when you come back, Todd Haley talked about, is he in shape? Yeah, that was his first question. That was his first question. Well, and then he has his hamstring straight. I mean, it's so if people, it's one thing to be away from the team and to be in football shape.

I think we just really don't understand that completely as fans. We don't really get that. Like, you have to put your spikes on and run outside. We had our strength coach, Gary Gimmon at Oakland taught me this. He's like, look, until they can get their spikes on and football shoes on and run around and move, like it's really not, you don't know where they are. And so I think that's the case. Look, I think it's most important that Josh Gordon gets himself and his life in the right direction.

And getting in shape is just going to take some time. But, you know, I think what he did was probably the best thing for his life. It may not be the best thing for his conditioning. But more important, his life is what matters. Yeah, absolutely. And we're hoping he will be well this year and finally get back to where he was before. I will say a good example of that of someone staying in shape while they were holding out was Revis in 2009. When he was waiting for that big deal from the Jets after they made that first AFC title run, you know,

he held out for his big deal. And they had hard knocks in town and they showed him. He was in cleats. He was 100% ready to roll. And they opened camp and he was back. You got to, you have to work out in spikes. Like you just can't,

you just can't go out there in the gym and get on the treadmill and do the, you know, do that. You got to be in spikes and your hamstrings. I've got to, because what happens to you, the volume of your work wears your body down and that's when it body snaps. And if you don't get enough volume,

how do you really know you're in that kind of shape? And so it's going to take some time. You've got to be patient. The worst thing you can do with these guys is rush them back. Because you want to see them. Again, I'm going to say this again. It's more important to be ready in this November for that run than it is to be ready for the opener. Absolutely.

That is 100% correct. One more thing before we get out here talking about guys that are rushing back. This man is not going to rush back to play football anymore. And then as Eric Decker, he is retiring from the game of football. We obviously remember those years with Peyton Manning in Denver and Demarius Thomas and what an absolute powerhouse they were as an offense. And Decker goes to the Jets. And then obviously with the Titans, he goes to the. Patriots and he's been all over the place. Raiders. He was trying to find his footing somewhere,

but now it decides a lot away from the game. I think it's the best thing for Derek. Eric couldn't separate last year on tape. It was pretty clear. He really didn't have any burst. When he left the jets, he really didn't have any juice. He couldn't win against cover two. Tennessee signed them. They found out that he didn't have anything. And look, it's a hard thing to do for players, is telling the end is near. It's the worst thing to do. You spend eight years of your life, giving your body up, doing all these things. But, you know, when you're a receiver, it's like the NBA. It's very clear cut. You know, You know, either you've got hops in your legs or you don't.

And when you can see it, you know, and like, okay, let's take Adrian Peterson this weekend. He comes off the street and he has the great rushing year, a week against. Solidifies he's going to be the starter, right, in the backfield. I mean, look, I just believe this. If you believe a veteran guy, an older running back is going to be your guy in August, you better hope he's still going to be there in November, December. That's all I would say. And I would be very cautiously optimistic about that.

And it is unfortunate if you're Washington fan, obviously losing Geist, which is a lot of people were very excited to see him in that backfield, and he goes down for the year. How about Geis told DeGrood and don't give me the ball three times in a row? If you do, I can't go out there. Like, I never heard of that before in my life. I think a lot of, a lot of these guys are much more, it's sort of like pitchers in baseball.

So a lot of my buddies that, you know, now pitch in the minor leagues and major leagues, they all are very, very much more aware of their pitch count. Like, we were in high school, Legion, you know, going into college. I mean, you pitch, some of these guys that throw 120 pitches in the game, nobody would care. but now everyone knows and they're trying to protect themselves and then I think it's one of those situations. But I think Bax, you know, Parcells was a big believer in giving Bax carries in the

preseason because he wanted him to get hit and so that they could handle the tackling without fumbling. He was a big believer in that. I mean, he was like he, I mean, I learned that from him. I'm like, you got to get these back and they got to run. You know, they got to get hit. And if they don't get in it, they got to see if they'll, I mean, the fumbles in September is always interesting to monitor because a lot of times guys don't get hit enough. Now, you know, Levinan Bell, I don't want him hit. I'm talking to both sides of my mouth there. I don't want him hit. You know, we know. We know what we have here. LaShawn. LaShawn McCoy, I don't want him hit. Okay. Those two, but there's some guys that need, like, Geist needs to get hit. Yeah, Gurley, we don't need to get that. I get that one. Because to me, the Rams are, to me,

the Rams have to keep two players upright and healthy the whole season. And I'm going to, Whitworth and Gurley. Those two, they lose either one of those two guys. It's going to be really hard. Absolutely. And then the last thing of New York, item that just came out of Ryan Switzer traded to the Steelers out of Oakland. He goes from the Cowboys to Oakland, not in Oakland very long, and now he's going to the Steelers. Steelers need some help on special teams. Obviously, Oakland got

Brian in there, and now Jordy Nelson, so Switzer kind of lost a limited role there. I thought he would be a better slot receiver. It's going to be interesting. Is he going to replace the Eli Rogers kid that had that role in Pittsburgh? Was it? Eli Rogers. I think he's going to replace him. It'll be

interesting. Pittsburgh. I think James Washington. Pittsburgh knows. I think Pittsburgh's saying it very clearly. We're going to beat you spreading the ball out. We're not going to... We won't speed. We want speed. And we'll see if we can win some of those. And I think you know, Tomlin, you know, Tomlin is obsessed with the Patriots in the sense that he breaks down every single game of the Patriots every year. I mean, he goes through them all. I mean, he understands he tries to learn from it, how to handle it, what they're doing. He's upset. And for good reason. It's smart. I'm not saying it.

Well, it's the top competition in the AFC. And he sees the slot value. And so, you know, maybe he believes that Switzer will give them that. Look, I don't doubt the Steelers when it comes to receivers. One thing I learned about the Steelers, they can, Justin Hunter had a great game the other day. Like, they can take a guy that I didn't think could play at all and turn them into a good receiver. I give all the credit to them. They're really good at it. Absolutely. We will be back Wednesday. We will be talking about Hard Knocks and some other stories that come out in the world of football. Anything else before we get out there. Will this be the last Hard Knocks? I think we've done three, right? Right. Yeah, so this would be the last one. Yep.

Yep. So the season finale of Hard Knocks. Saying goodbye to Hugh. Yeah, we'll say goodbye to Hugh. Our final farewell, we'll be sure to bless him as always. And then we will knock it out on Wednesday and then we'll get this routine going and the football season is almost here. Thanks, Dave Fraser. Thanks again to draft kings. Football season is almost here. And to celebrate draft kings is hosting a free team pick-um promo for week one.

Get to the app or go to draftkings.com now and use code ringer. Just pick at least half of the winning teams correctly to win a share of a million bucks. That is code ringer at draft kings. eligibility restrictions apply see draftkings.com slash pick them for details. Thanks for listening.