The Ringer NFL Show - Offseason Mailbag, Free Agent Landing Spots, Plus Super Bowl Champion Mitchell Schwartz | The Ringer NFL Show

Episode Date: February 13, 2020

We answer listener questions about the most fun landing spots for high-profile free agents like Tom Brady, Cam Newton, and Dak Prescott, under-the-radar impact free agents, the two players we would start a team from scratch with, and more (1:10). Then, fresh off a Super Bowl victory, All-Pro Chiefs offensive tackle Mitchell Schwartz joins the show to talk about how they celebrated, what it’s like to play with Patrick Mahomes, and playing for Andy Reid (38:45). Host: Robert Mays Guests: Danny Heifetz and Mitchell Schwartz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, it's Liz Kelly. We have a new podcast launching this week exclusively on Spotify with Chris Ryan and Chuck Loosterman called Music Exists. Here's the trailer. Hello, this is Chris Ryan. I'm an editor at The Ringer.com. Hello, this is Chuck Losterman. I'm a friend of Chris Ryan and the Ringer. And this is Music Exists, a podcast where we talk about how we think about music. Yeah, this is not a podcast where we tell you what music to listen to or we necessarily comment on what's happening in the culture, now or what you should be listening to tomorrow before your friends do. This is a podcast about thinking about music, even when it's not playing. Yeah, how does music shape the world you see around you, the world you feel around you?

How does it make you feel about yourself? Yeah, particularly if the music that makes you feel things about yourself is Steely Dan or Black Sabbath. Or Radiohead. Yeah, that happens. That comes up a lot. Music exists, a podcast about Radiohead. Available exclusively on Spotify. Spotify.

It's a bring your NFL show. I'm Robert Mays. We have a very fun show for you today. Chiefs, Right, Tackle, Mitchell Schwartz. We'll be joining us a little bit later. Chat about what it's like to actually win a Super Bowl among a bunch of other stuff, including playing with Patrick Mahomes,

his all-time hot streak for an offensive lineman in the playoffs, which I clearly love talking about. Before we get to any of that, though, we're recording this on February 13th. We are firmly in the pre-combine football wilderness. So I thought it would be fun to ask you guys, what your biggest questions were about this offseason. And to help me answer those is one, Danny Highfits.

Mr. Hyfitz, how are you doing, buddy? I am fantastic, Mays. How are you doing today? I'm great. It's great to have you here. Kevin is on vacation, and they're like, who do you want to do the show with next week? And I was like, you know what?

Danny Highfitz had a big year. I would love to talk some football with Danny Hyphitz here as we kind of start wading into the off season. This is our inaugural pod. We've never done it before. We've never done a podcast together before. This is great. You know what?

feel like it's going to go swimmingly. I have no concerns. It's very natural. I mean, you should have some concerns, but I appreciate the confidence. We're going to be just fine. Okay, I want to thank everyone who sent in questions, as always. There are some really fun ones in here, but we are going to start this conversation the same way any conversation about the off season should start. And that is with the QB carousel. So let's kick it off. Adam Bergman asks, what would the most fun landing spots be for all the high profile free agent quarterbacks that can conceivably have the cap space to go out and get them. So let's lay this out very quickly. We talked about this before the show. There's some ground rules here. All of these guys cannot go to their teams they're on

right now or we're on last season because that is inherently not fun. You can't put Brady back on the Patriots. Like that sucks. Also, for our purposes here, we're making Cam Newton and Andy Dalton free agents, even though you technically have to trade for them, but they're involved in every single one of these conversations. So those are the stipulations. Let us start. Let us start with one Thomas Brady. What would the most fun landing spot be for Tom Brady? I mean, it's the Colts, and I don't really want to hear other options. I completely disagree with you.

Why? Why? Because I am a huge fan. Like, storytelling needs to come full circle. And Tom Brady ending on the Colts would just be unbelievable, especially if they meet in the AFC championship again. And then Peyton Manning is like watching in the stands and he's watching Tom Brady lead the cults against the Patriots.

Like, what is, for the AFC championship game, what is a better scenario you're going to paint me than that? John Gruden and Tom Brady. Are you kidding me? You're wrong. Oh, my God. I would absolutely love to watch Tom Brady play for John Gruden and just to see him be completely disillusioned by the man within like two weeks.

It would be so entertaining. Well, now I'm just going to, do you want me to just jump to where I had, who I had in Vegas under Gruden? Sure. I had Cam Newton and Vegas because they're going to Vegas and Cam Newton. the outfits he already does and what he does at Instagram, and it's like Cam Newton's Instagram stories are already unbelievably entertaining when he's just like on a field in like the middle of nowhere, Charlotte, North Carolina.

And like if he's like walking through casinos in Vegas, like Instagram living, like that alone is amazing. And then there's also Cam Newton on the field of John Gruden. You're bringing a very different element to this show because there is a gap in our ages. And you've already mentioned, you've mentioned Instagram both before the show started and right now. It's the most times Instagram stories has been mentioned on this podcast ever. So I'm really enjoying it. Do you watch football on the television sets or whatever they're going?

I do. I still have TV sets. So my CAM destination is the Patriots. You said fun. You just wanted fun things. Bill Belichick finally getting a quarterback that he can run with. If Cam is healthy and Cam can actually move around, I would absolutely love watching Billaichick get to construct an offense.

around a running quarterback. It's what he has always dreamed of. It would finally come to fruition. No, I do like that. I do love the idea of Cam with Belichick. But I like the idea of Cam with Gruden in Las Vegas more, especially because that way we can still get Cam, I don't know, Cam in Vegas to me is just that's the dream to be.

I think you're probably right. He's also much closer to his hatmaker, which is nice. His hat maker lives in California. Okay, Drew Breeze. How much of those things run for? Do you think you could hook me up? Oh, I don't know. I am a man.

There's a Guren brothers next to my house, like that the hat place. And I walked in one time, I was like, you know what? Maybe I want to just see if I can pull off a hat because I wore a cowboy hat at a wedding earlier this year. And I walked in to buy one. I was like, can't do this. And the answer was no. I just, I can't pull it off.

I do not have hat energy. Not yet. Not yet. No, not yet. Soon. Soon. All right. Drew Breeze.

Chargers. I'm a sucker for full circle, man. I'm a sucker for it. That's such a lack of imagination. Wow. Why? Because storytelling is supposed to come full circle. You've seen him in the uniform before? That's why he's going there?

Well, no, because this one more than any other one. I don't think Bree. I mean, Breeze himself is like, I don't want to play anywhere other than the Saints. I don't think Breeze would be as good anywhere other than the Saints. I don't think that anywhere else is necessarily like a great destination for him. But enlighten me. Where would you rather see him? I would love to watch Drew Breeze throw the ball to Mike Evans and Chris God,

Why? Because he can't get the ball 40 yards down field. You want to turn Mike Evans into a nice slant. That's the problem. That's the problem is that Drew, Drew, Drew, Drew, is no longer fits the Bruce Ariens offense necessarily. I'll be honest. Bruce Ariens, I think the average depth of targeted that offense is like 10 yards. And I think Breeze is like last with like four, five.

Stylistically, they'd have to switch things up a bit. But I would just love to watch him throw the ball to those two guys. You just a lot more short, you know, a lot more short stuff with Chris Godwin, getting the ball out of his hands. again, they'd have to be, there's some tweaks, but just Drew Bree's thrown to those two guys would be fun to me. Well, you could also watch it for a long time because the ball will just hang in the air,

so you'll have plenty of time to watch it. How dare you? How dare you? It would be the exact opposite. Those guys would be so, so happy that there was somebody that could actually throw them the ball and not throw the ball to the other team. Okay. My king, Philip Rivers, what you got? I put him in Carolina because I think Rivers

is the most boring guy in this list other than Andy Dalton, and I put him in the most boring place. What the fuck is wrong with you? You think, Philip Rivers is boring? Yes, so does most people who listen to this. I'm betting. I don't know why.

You're obsessed with Philip Rivers. Philip Rivers is so incredibly not boring. I literally wrote about Philip Rivers this week. And I said, you can say a lot of things about Philip Rivers. You can't say he's boring. No, I was the lead of my notes. I know. I just disagree.

No, you made very valid points and I appreciate your passion. Philip Rivers is so not boring. But that being said, I am putting him somewhere for boring reasons. I'm putting him on the Colts just because I think it makes sense. I honestly think there's a chance that happens. His offensive coordinator from their offensive coordinator was his quarterback's coach for two years. And it's with the organization for five.

Frank Reich was his offensive coordinator. I think their offensive line really gives him a chance to make the most of his last couple of years. They are not a offense that throws the ball downfield a ton. It gets the ball out quick. That would really help him. I just think from a football sense, it makes sense. From a football standpoint, it makes sense.

And I also just think he fits with what they'd want to do. Beckett, that's this whole career. From a football standpoint, it makes sense. Philip Rivers is a vastly underrated player who's had a lust for his career. I went through every single time the Chargers blew a lead in the fourth quarter, in the Philip Rivers era.

And I got to tell you something. I came away thinking, not a Hallfamor. It's going to be honest with you. Philip Rivers is much, much better at playing quarterback than Eli Manning. Okay, let's continue. Dak Prescott.

I put him in Tampa Bay for everything you just said about the bucks, but I'm with it. I think that's fine. I think that's fun. It was hard to pick one for him because I think he's a good quarterback and wherever he went, it would be enjoyable. I get sort of a lack of imagination. I put him in Carolina because I think the stuff he could do as a runner with Christian

McCaffrey is kind of the stuff we saw with Cam when Cam was still moving around. So he was tough for me. I also think he throws a gorgeous deep ball and Curtis Samuel needs someone that can throw him the ball now after what he had to do. deal with last year with dead arm cam and way too many weeks of Kyle Allen. Yeah, and that, I mean, that made such huge strides this year. I mean, he was second in the league in sacks in 2018 and now we're at this weird point where we're kind of realizing that sacks are partially on the offensive line, but also

partially on the quarterback, especially with the guys who get sacked a lot like Deshaun Watson and Dak. And then this year he gets sacked less than half the amount, like his pocket presence. He went from fumbling a lot to fumbling very, very little. And it was, I mean, I think he cut his sack rate by a third. And his pocket presence really, the eye test really backed all those numbers up. He just was in control. I think he's a really good quarterback.

I feel like he's worth paying. We'll talk about this on this show 100 times between now and March about what the Cowboys should and shouldn't do with Dak Prescott. But I think if you dropped him into pretty much any offense, it would be fun. But I think him with DJ Moore, Curtis Samuel, Christian McCaffrey, with Joe Brady running the offense, sign me up. I think that'd be really fun. Okay.

James Winston, this was tough for me because the most, fun team James Winston can be on is the Bucks. So, and we can't do that. So I had a hard time. I think the most fun thing for James to do is go to the Patriots. I want to see Bill Belichick manage James Winston. I want to see him have to deal with it. That's a pretty good one.

Can you imagine the memes of James and Bill on the sideline and Josh McDaniel? I can't even imagine what that would be the only thing that could make Bill Belichick retire before the age of 75, seven to coach James Winston. I said the Saints just because I'd like to see him throw the ball to Michael Thomas 26 times a game. Under any circumstances, he would just throw it to him on every single play, and I'd be fine with it.

I just need to see Bill Belichick try to figure out how to handle James Winston. I think that one's fine. All right, these are less fun just inherently. Let's go with Ryan Tannahill. Oh, I gave him to the Bears. What do you think of that? What is fun about that? He's better than Mitchell Tribesky.

And I'd like to see the Bears have a better quarterback than Mitchell Trubisky. So that's why I put Andy Dalton on the Bears, because no matter what happens. All right, so, Mays, we need to talk about self-care for a moment. Hey, no matter what happens with the Andy Dalton thing, it's going to be interesting because I've said that they should do this for like, just not for me, for me on a personal level. Because I've said they should do this for like three months. And everyone was like, are you crazy?

And now everyone's come around and be like, you know what? The bear should trade for Andy Dalton. So if it goes wrong, then everyone can just dunk on me for the entire season. And that's fine. If it goes well, then they should let me take over the franchise. So either one of those outcomes, think is at least worth paying attention to.

So that's why I want it. I'm stuck. So here's the, they say the opposite of love is not hate. The opposite of love is indifference. And I am indifferent to Andy Dalton. Like, no disrespect to the man. He's wonderful. But like... Honestly, so am I.

And that's exactly what I want for the Bears. I want an indifferent quarterback. That would be such an improvement is having just a guy who's a guy. All I want is average. Because I just look at the bears and it's like they're the person in the relationship. and it's like they can't admit this isn't working, but everyone around them knows it's not working. Oh, it's terrible.

And they don't have the strength. It's absolutely terrible. You just want to save them from themselves, and they just won't let you. I want you to raise your standards. You don't deserve just a guy. You deserve a great guy. You know what I mean, Mays?

I want you to have a great guy. I want a guy for a season, and that's enough. Oh, man. Jeez. Let's move on. Here we go. Brandon Hilliard asks, what is your dream free agent team pairing?

I really enjoy this one. So what did you start with? Well, I have a nerdy, offensive line one for you, we can do really quick and then have a real one. Okay. Let's just get this off the back. Kevin's not here. It's really catering to me. Substitute teacher. Jack Conklin to the Miami Dolphins so that when Tua is a

lefty goes to the dolphins, Jack Conklin is a right tackle predicting to his blindside. That's not a bad idea. I think Jack Conklin is fine. I think that he, I mean, I think he's fine. I don't think he's any great shakes. I think that he was vastly overrated as a rookie. I think that he is a competent left a right tackle. The problem is competent offensive linemen get paid a lot of money in free agency. If you look at the Joanne James contract and you pretty much assume that Jack Conklin is going to match that contract or beat it, that's frightening.

That is really why it's dicey to dive into free agency to get players. Wow, I just feel like I just get dunked on. It's fine. Jack Conklin is fine. Jack Conklin is fine. There are, I like some of the interior offensive linemen in this class. I think that if you want to give any of the guards to some of these teams, I think the bills,

the bills have a shocking amount of money to spend in free agency. They don't have a single player outside of their center who makes more than $11 million. If you want to give them a guy like Joe Thuney, somebody like that to really boost the interior of their offensive line, I like that a lot. But in terms of bills players, my favorite one was Chris Harris going to the bills.

The cornerback from the Broncos? Yes, yes. Just think about that second. secondary. You'd have Chris Harris in the slot in nickel with Levi Wallace and Trudevius White on the outside and Mike Hyde and Jordan Poyer in the back end. That's awesome. That's a really good one. That's awesome. That's a really good one. And he's the type of guy where I'm not sure how much he's going to get. He's on the wrong side of 30. But I feel like if you're a team like the bills, it's really just trying to take the final step. This is a perfect way to one,

stave off some regression on defense. And two, just drop in a fan. And two, just drop in a fan fantastic player into a position of need for you. They do not have a nickel cornerback that they're going to necessarily ride with right now. And I just think he would be fantastic for them. And what we've seen is like team stacking strength on strength. Like the Niners obviously added Bosa and D4 this offseason, the Ravens added Earl Thomas and they traded for Marcus Peters. Like strength on straight like, you know, oh, it's the secondary, is a pass rush, whatever works. It's actually just make sure your strengths are elite. That's my favorite one. I've got a couple more, but we got to move on. So is that, do you have any

others? Oh, well, I was, I actually Yonick and Gawkew to Washington, and then they could add Chase Young, Yonick, and Gawke, and their defensive line would have those two plus Montes sweat, Darren Payne, Ryan Kerrigan, and Jonathan Allen, and that would be the best defensive line of the league, and they would be coached

by Ron Rivera. I, we're going to get to Washington and Ryan Kerrigan a little bit later. He actually is an answer for another one of the questions I have. The other one I had here, just a couple more quickly. I had Matthew Judon going to the Titans, because they're their pressure packages are really cool.

I know they don't have DMPs anymore, but I like what they do on third down, and he's such a movable piece, and they play Drow Casey outside a lot in certain situations, so you can move Judon inside where he's pretty good. So I like a lot of that. And then Corey Littleton, going to the Chiefs, they desperately, I mean, they just won the Super Bowl,

so I guess not desperately, but they could seriously use some athleticism in the middle of their team. You're recommending a Super Bowl champion spend cash money at inside linebacker on Corey Littleton. Listen, buddy, they sent a ton of money on inside linebacker Anthony Hitchens a little while ago. It is not working out for them.

I don't think they have the money to do it. They only have about $14 million in cap space. But this is a dream pairing here. And that would be a dream pairing in that defense. I don't dream of Corey Littleton, but that's why you're the best. Corey Littleton's a great player, man. All right, one more free agent question here. Penn Ross asks, who are some of the free agents sitting under the radar that you think could have a sizable impact next season?

I already mentioned Joe Thune, who I don't think is going to be back with the Patriots just because of money. They usually re-sign their offensive linemen a little bit earlier than that. Who are a couple of those guys for you? Yonnik and Gokwe, the defensive end for the Jacksonville Jaguars, I think is fantastic. And I think he's under the radar? He's got like 40 sacks in four years. Not to you, but to the general public? Absolutely.

This is a guy who's one, he's playing for the Jacksonville Jaguars. And then secondly, he's also not having that great numbers last year because that team, it's like the perfect recipe if you want, like, Guys who were in a bad situation that deteriorated, like the culture in that building with Coughlin and Doug Maroon and everything, which was just such a disaster last year that they weren't producing. But he is as an individual, clearly one of the best defensive ends in the league. And he isn't getting sacks. So I don't think most people know who Yonik and Gakwe is. But he, I think by the end of next year could be one of the top six or seven defensive ends in football, maybe a household name if he ends up in the right situation. Yonik and Gakwe is going to get a $20 million a year contract in a month.

there is nothing under the radar about Yanukkah. I appreciate you trying, though. The man has 37 and a half sacks in four seasons, and he has 14 forced fumbles in four years. Did you know that off the, wow. You just know that off the top, Fumble for us fumbles? I did not know that off the top.

I'm looking at his pro football reference page right now. Okay. All right, my guy is actually under the radar because he is somebody that was a secondary player, he's a backup before last season, or two seasons ago. He came in when Andrewsendaheho got hurt and has played fantastic for the Vikings. And that is Anthony Harris.

Oh, yeah. All right. This is a good one. I have him too. Yes. Anthony Harris is a legitimately excellent safety. He's a fantastic middle of the field player. I believe he was up near the league lead interceptions this year.

I mean, just the exact type of modern safety that you want. The team that I had in mind for him, I know we didn't have to do it with this, but the Raiders make sense to me. Because Paul Gunther, it plays that same system that Mike Zimmer did. He coached under Zimmer took over for him in Cincinnati.

and I just think you could plug Anthony Harris right in there and he could be really good for a Raiders defense that really need some help on the back end. So I have a question for you. If you look at pro football focus grading, which I think is most effective for a position like safety because it's so difficult to gauge that from just the casual fan. In the top graded safety is in pro football focus,

you've got Justin Simmons and the Denver, so that's Vic Fangio's defense. And then you've got Anthony Harris and Harrison Smith in Minnesota, and then also depending on how, many snaps you count, you can also look at certain bear safety. So how much of safety play is about the defensive coordinator in the system? And when you take a guy like Anthony Harris out of Minnesota, how effective is he still going to be? I think it's hard to project that with any guy who has a somewhat

limited track record. He only has two, like a year and a half as a starter. It's a risk if you want to give him top of the market money for his safety. But I also just think that playmaking talent is translatable. And he absolutely has it. I mean, the guy is just around the ball all of the time. He had 11 passes defense this year. He's a fantastic. player. I think he's going to be okay wherever he goes, but I think you do need to find a role that's going to probably use him as just a back end safety, middle of the field, center field type guy. And I think if you have someone that's going to do that, he's going to be really good. Okay. Let's move on. I love this question. It's me Reagan asks, if you could pull your favorite

retired haul of very good player in his prime and put them on any team, who would it be? He uses peanut Tillman as an example, which is a perfect example. That's how you get your question answered. reference to Peanut Tillman. It's so true. It's so true. But I love Hall of Very Good. Just the guys you had an affinity for back in the day when you were watching football when you're younger, Peanut Tillman is very much in that wheelhouse for me. So who is this for you? You're probably going to have to pick some money from the last like three years because you weren't alive prior to 2000. I was born in 2009. So this was very difficult for me. I just, I was trying to remember like back in the day, Patrick Willis. But no, I got Andre Johnson. Put him on the 49ers. I think Andre Johnson was just unbelievable. God. That's fantastic. I'm jealous of that one. He's just so good and he was kind of... I honestly think Andre Johnson might be too good for this. He's not going to make the whole fame, so... I think Andre Johnson is not in the spirit of the question.

Okay, how about this? Adelius Thomas, the first person I ever remember doing safety and linebacker and like pass rusher and slot corner in the same game. Putting him on... Back on the two teams he played for, the Ravens and the Patriots. Put him on either of those two teams again. The Ravens could use him right now, actually. I think that with Matthew Judon,

likely leaving in free agency. They absolutely could use a guy like that. My favorite one, and it gave me an excuse to go back and watch him on YouTube, which I tweeted about today, is Antoine Winfield going to the Texas. The Texans need to remake their secondary. Antoine Winfield is a dude who transforms whatever defense he is on. Nate Tice was giving me shit about this, and he and I completely disagree. He doesn't think that he would be better now than he was back in the day. I don't necessarily think he would be either, but you wouldn't put him outside.

he'd be a slot corner 100% of the time, which is a starting position now. He is just a physical force. He completely changes the entire attitude and mindset of whatever defense he is playing. He also probably changed the entire attitude and mindset of young Robert Mays because he was a cornerback for the Vikings. How many different Bears quarterbacks did you watch Winfield intercept?

Intercept and destroy, because that was one thing he did very well, is he was a great blitzer and would just absolutely annihilate people coming off the edge. So Antoine Winfield is going to Houston, team that desperately needs cornerback help. That's my favorite one. I have a couple more quick ones. Colin Jenkins.

Do you remember Colin Jenkins? Yeah. Colin Jenkins, I love to. The hall is very fine Colin Jenkins. Oh, that is so fucking wrong. You're just remembering his days from the Giants when he wasn't as good. He was awesome on the Packers. Great interior past rusher.

I would love him on the Cowboys right now if they lose Malik Collins. This is a selfish one. I don't really care about Leonard Floyd. And I would love Elvis Dumerville or Cliff Avery. across from Cleomack. Elvis Dumerville, I loved short pass rushers, and Elvis Dumerville was just a 5-10 guy, which is dominating people,

which I always was a fan of. And my favorite Elvis Dumerville story is one of my favorite free agency stories, which is that he failed to sign. I don't know if his contract extension or free agency... It was a free agent deal. Because he couldn't get to a kinkgo's.

He didn't have a printer. He couldn't get to a fax machine. Yes. That's extremely relatable. It's incredible. And this was not like 20 years ago. This was like five years ago. that he needed to get to a kinkos in order to sign a free agent deal.

It's absolutely amazing. If it hasn't happened to you once, it'll happen to you soon. No, it happens to me all the time. I don't own a printer, and there's a FedEx Kinko is two minutes from my house. All right, let's move on. Matt Lane asks, if you had to start a team with two players, which position groups would you pick? So I want to answer this two ways.

Let's first start. If you were starting a team with two players, who would you decide? Non-quarterbacks, obviously. And also, Aaron Donald is off the table because that's just the clear answer. So no cornerbacks, or no quarterbacks, no Aaron Donald. Which two players would you start a team with? And then we can get into why. To me, I think this is very easy.

To me, it's Michael Thomas and Aaron Donald. And if it's not Aaron Donald, if it's not Aaron Donald, then I'm kind of, I probably picked TJ Watt, but you could convince me a few young defense events. Mine is Michael Thomas and Kalil Mack. Kahl Mek. That works for me. And I think that we're in the same mind frame here. My idea, the thought I have is, I've talked to so many people, I did a big story during the playoffs about wide receivers over the last 20 years and talking to guys about whether it's Calvin Johnson or Julio or defense has just completely changed what they do against them.

They're in their head so much when it comes to game planning. And I think Kalio Mack and pass rushers like that are the same way. I want guys that just dictate the game plans. I want dudes who are the first name that are going to be mentioned when teams are sitting down to game plan on Monday. And that's what those types of players are. I think you could honestly, to me, you could argue Julio over Michael Thomas just because I think he does more things. But I think it's a dominant past rusher and a dominant past catcher. Those are my two.

I think I completely agree with you in that. But you can't just take players like that. You also have to within the pool, which is a very small pool of players that dictated a game plan. It's also about culture. Like if we're talking about a fantasy, like, I mean, Craig and I, I do fantasy football, right? And then it's, or a Madden draft. You can start a Madden franchise with,

I just said Madden, like I was from New York, but a Madden franchise with like, oh, you know, fantasy style. But if it's not a Madden team, like you're talking about an actual football team, these are your two captains. You're talking about picking your offensive and your defensive captain

and you're telling the other 51 players in the team, be like these dudes. Not everyone can do that. So, you know, there are certain players that maybe in the pool of game playing guys that you don't, Michael Thomas and Aaron Donald or Kaleel Mack are guys

that you can tell everyone in the team, yeah, no, follow their lead. And I think that's equally as important as what happens on the field if you're actually trying to build a winning team, especially if you don't have a strong quarterback. So I had a backup duo, and it was George Kittle, who is in the conversation to me along with the receivers just because he does so many things.

What he allows your offense to be just because of the way he can block and catch is just he's a unique player in the league right now. There's no one quite like him. And then the other guy had was, who I think is now in this conversation, is Zadarius Smith. What?

Because he can line up inside and outside, it's just such a cool piece to have within your defense. He was the best pass rusher in the NFL by the end of the season. But in the NFC championship game, his performance was spotty to be generous. Like, to be generous, it was up and down. They threw the ball eight times.

Bob McGinn of the Athletic wrote a scathing review of the Packers defensive effort. In that game, I highly recommend everyone check it out if you can. the athletic, Bob McGinn, and he wrote, among other things, the defensive line was not prepared by the coaching stuff, but also just kind of flagging and just, I don't know, it's not, I, I, I just get that one. They ran the ball eight times. He's a, he's a pass rushing dynamo, and he was destroying games by the end of the season. Okay. Pope J88, obviously the best pope, you know, one of the many popes, but the best pope. He says, last year, the OBJ trade left me shook. What big offseason trades could you see coming this year?

this was tough for me. I don't think there are that many clear choices. Did anything jump out to you immediately? Yeah, I just was really sad about the O'Dell trade from the Giants. It just reminded you. Anything else outside of just being sad? By nature of shocking trades, it's like you can't, nothing that we're talking about right now because the issue is that there's already so much being made up.

Like, like, Tom Brady the charges, there are already so many things that's like speculation that just gets talked through like a game of telephone, but it's like a game of media, and it just gets talk, talk, and then eventually it's kind of hard to figure out what is based on reported information and what's not. So I already think we're in this game of speculation, but by nature of like a big trade

that I don't necessarily think will be shocking, it's about the Detroit, what Detroit does at the number three pick. No matter what happens, it will probably involve that. I don't think that Matthew Stafford would be traded. I think that there's no good argument as to why he would be traded. If they deal him, It's $32.5 million in dead money.

I agree. But if they're not going to trade him, then it would be wise to trade out of the pick. And then that team trading up for Tua will then start the Domino's. That's probably true. I think if they're not going to take a quarterback and there's somebody that is in the market for Tua, trading it would make sense. But I don't think it would make any sense for them to trade him. They need to win now. This is a team that is not in a rebuilding mode anymore.

They've spent money. They've spent a lot of money in free agency last year. I feel like right now, both Matt Patricia and Bob Quinn are on borrowed time if they don't turn this thing around. And starting over at quarterback, it'd be really hard to convince ownership to do that at this point in their trajectory. That just was hard for me to imagine. So boy, Bill Barnwell, at E. Spinn, made a really convincing case. He laid out five teams that could be the next year's 49ers and turn around. And he mentioned the Lions is one of the strongest candidates because they didn't have Stafford for so much of the year.

And they also just had some bad turnover luck that's probably going to come back around even if they don't. And Matt Patricia is probably underrated as a defensive mind at this point. However much confidence I have in Kyle Shanahan, I have the exact opposite about, I have that in Matt Patricia. So I don't feel as confident about that as Mr. Barnwell would. I do think that Matthew Stafford was fantastic in that offense, though. And I missed watching him in it after he got hurt. The couple of guys that I think, I mean, these aren't necessarily shocking,

but there's a world where they could get traded. Chris Jones, you know, they did the same thing last year with D. Ford. They franchised him. They dealt him. That wouldn't be that surprising. I think that's on the table. Kenny Clark, so I think Kenny Clark is an awesome player. He's due $7.9 million this year.

Packers have a lot of cap space next year. An extension is possible, but they've spent so much money on their defensive line. They may want to spread out the resources a little bit. He's 24. He's going to get a ton of money somewhere. The one that I think is very much on the table, though, is not Matthew Stafford, but one of his teammates, and that's Darius Slay. he is going to want to reset the cornerback market next year,

that they probably aren't going to want to pay him that with everything else that they're having to show out. It wouldn't surprise me if he were dealt before the season started. Yeah, I don't know. None of those are like Odell level stuff to me. No, they're just, they're not, but you can kind of see the writing. I'm just looking at like contracts that are coming up, everything else. By definition, they're not that shocking because you can see why it would happen.

The other guy who we mentioned earlier, Ryan Carrigan, if they draft Chase Young, they just drafted Matas, what the first round. Yeah, the writing might be on the wall. Ryan Carrigan is 32 years old. His contract expires after next season. I mean, if they did that, it would actually be smart. So we don't ascribe that line of thinking to the Redskins very often, but hopefully they've turned over a new leaf there.

Kerrigan's like the most shockingly, like if you just look up the most sacks since 2012, it's like Khalil Mack, Aaron Donald. He's been extremely. I don't think he's a game-changing player, but he's always just doing stuff. He's a useful player even at this age. All right. Sebastian Morningstar asked. since this draft class is filled with wide receiver talent,

do you see any of the wideouts drafted later on having a better career than the three wide outs expected to go off the board in the first round? He asked which ones that would be. I have not dug into the draft class that much, but I think the first part of the question is very interesting. If you look at the last 10 years, the amount of production in the second round

is right there with the amount of production in the first round. The list of first round wide receivers is pretty bleak sometimes when you check out some of the guys taken at the back end. Kenny Britt, Percy Harvin, Jonathan Baldwin, A.J. Jenkins, Kendall Wright, Corderole Patterson, Tavon, Austin, Kelvin Benjamin, Philip Dorset, Bresch, Perrin, Kevin White, Jesus Christ, Laquant Shredwell, Josh Doxon, Corey Coleman, John Ross, Corey Davis. I think the Titans are a fascinating example.

You take Corey Davis in the top five. A couple years later, you take A.J. Brown in the second round. And A.J. Brown's just better. He's just flat out better. that I think the hit rate in the first and second round has been comparable enough when you could argue that it's kind of smart to wait on wide receiver. Oh, yeah.

I mean, this is one of the deeper receiver class, draft classes in like 10, 20 years. So I think receivers ironically might fall, even though they're more talented because there's so many of them. The scarcity of it isn't that big of an issue. But I also think sometimes in the draft, I think people who cover the draft like us

can make a mistake of doing is like, it sounds like so, like it's mysterious or something, right? And the reality, it's exactly like any other industry. It's just hiring. Drafting is a fancy word for hiring process. And hiring is really hard. And every industry actually has issues of like filling talent in areas of need

and the rate is lower than you think. And especially when something like wide receiver where, I mean, you and Kevin talk on this podcast like every other week about how the passing game has completely changed in the last 10 years. The needs and what the skill sets that matter in wide receivers has completely changed in the last 10 years about physicality at the line of scrimmage. You wrote a wonderful thing on releases.

Like the actual things that matter, it's so hard to gauge, considering the differences between the NFL and college game where receivers aren't as physical, they're getting more, they're getting a lot less press at the line of scrimmage. Like, they don't have to run routes as hard. Like, Kyle Shannon said that about Debo Samuel.

Like, route running isn't as important as it used to be. Like, this is a mistake I made when I was talking about certain rookie receivers in Tennessee this year as I was overvaluing the importance of being polished at the college level. So I think part of the, of the reason that's happening is teams themselves are actually refiguring out what matters when it comes to taking receivers. And it's hard to predict the future.

I think you need to be less polished at the college level, but I do think that there is a way of thinking about the position that will be helpful. I've told the story before. I watched an interview with Terry McLaurin last year during training camp, and he was talking about just the way he thinks about route running and space and everything else. And when he was talking, I was like, oh, he sounds like Keenan Allen. Like, I've had this conversation with Keenan Allen 10 times. When you talk to really smart people about the position, they think about it in such detailed ways. Kelvin Ridley was the same way when I was talking to him this summer. I think that there's a way to think about it.

I think gauging how guys process their body movements and how they're supposed to take advantage of space and leverage and everything else, that to me would be more important than did I see the guy do it in college? Because that to me is really, really crucial when it comes to that position. Devante Adams is the same way. You talk to Devante Adams about playing receiver. It's like, oh, yeah, there's a reason that you're really, really good at this. Yeah, it's a craft like anything else. Exactly.

It absolutely is. In a way that people don't always appreciate because it's a position that so many people attribute height, weight, speed to why guys succeed or fail. And that's just not always the case. All right, let's get two more in here that are very quick. John Leibowitz asks, if for one game you had to take over play calling duties from Andy Reed, how many points do the chief score? What do you think? you go first. 75.

I think I could do a better job. I was not expecting that. I mean, it's not that hard. I think it's not that hard. I'm kidding. I wouldn't score anything. They would score zero points. I'm messing with you.

I can't believe that. I totally disagree. Oh, I didn't think you were serious. I totally disagree, though. I think I could get to like 21. You just let the home's take over. I, which right there. Wait, wait, wait, Mays.

Do you get the playbook to look at? You just call the plays? or do you have to draw plays up on your own? Oh, I think it's play calling duties. There's nothing about design in here. To be clear, though. Is Patrick Mahomes going to look at the sidelines, see me and be like, screw it, I'm doing this?

Or is he just like, he's seeing Andy Reid, but it's actually me. So he's not questioning it. He's just like doing what Andy says, but it's me. Because if that's the case, it's zero. If Patrick Mahomes is like, oh, well, screw this, then they'll win the game. It's that. I'm giving him the keys to the car, you know? This play calling is a collaborative effort.

We hear that all the time. you need to use your assistance and your quarterback. Patrick Mahomes, I almost called him Patrick Willis. Patrick Mahomes is the guy that wanted that Jet Wasp play, man. You saw the clip of it. He was the one asking for it. He knows what he's doing.

He's a very smart quarterback. I would lean on Eric's B. Are you going to ask Pat, what do we do on this play? Then yeah, maybe you'll win the game. That's honestly how play calling works a lot of the time, though. If you have a quarterback you trust, you're talking in the headset. You're like, what do you like here? What do you like here? Talk to Bianmi?

Like, all right, what do you like here? It's third and seven. What's our favorite third? seven play, it's collaborative. I think that the pieces are in place where we would still be able to move the ball, even if I was the one saying the play calls at the end. The only problem would be some of their play calls are so long that I might have trouble getting them out.

I'm going to be honest. I don't think they'd score with me calling plays. And to be, to be, I, you know how much I care about you. I don't think they'd score any points with you calling the plays either. And that's not an indictment of you. You just have to let Mahomes ride. You just have to give him the controls and just let it have. happen. Yeah, isn't that the thing like Aaron Rogers called the plays in the Matt Flynn game?

It's a rumor. Aaron Rogers called the plays a lot and the Packers were really good all the time. So they won 10 games a year. I think it would be okay. All right. Alan Corridor is our last one. I think this is the perfect note on which to add. Alan Corridor asks, if the 2019 bear's season was a Nicholas Cage movie, what movie would it be? I didn't come up with one for this. I imagine you're the expert on this. I have a few different answers. One is face off because the entire season made me want to be a completely different person. And the team needs a facelift. Yes. Two, going in 60 seconds because it felt like my hopes faded away that fast while watching the offense in the first game.

Yeah. And three, raising Arizona because it was like watching Matt Nagy try to keep something alive that couldn't care for itself. Those are my three answers. Jeez. It was like all of those. Are you okay? You know what, buddy? I'm really not.

We're going to see what happens here over the next month or so. I think the bears are just like Nicholas Cage. Like the guy. I don't think it's like a movie. It's just kind of like Nick Cage, you know? It's kind of like, damn, there's so much potential. It's like, what is, what choices are they making? Like, where did you even get?

Like, and then he was kind of worried about him. He had his window and then he just spent way too much money. He's like Ryan Pace. Yeah. That is all we got. Thank you guys so much for sending in the questions. We sincerely appreciate it. We're going to get to Mitchell Schwartz here in a second.

Hivitz, I appreciate you doing this, man. Thank you for pinch hitting. It was great. I had fun. Yeah, this was a delight. Thank you, Mace. Of course, bud. All right.

And without further ado, here is my chat with Super Bowl champion, Mitchell Schwartz. And now I am absolutely thrilled to welcome Super Bowl champion. It's still weird to say, I'm sure, for you. Chiefs right tackle Mitchell Schwartz. Mitch, how are you doing, buddy? I'm good. I don't want to have attached to me.

That's for sure. So I want to talk to you about a lot of stuff. But the first thing is just kind of about that process. So I saw you the night of the game. It was right. You came out to talk to us. and answer 20 questions about Patrick Mahomes before you left. And then you go back to the locker room.

I am so curious, like, what are the 12 hours like after you win a Super Bowl? Like, after you leave the locker room, what do you do? So I thought the weird thing was when we got back to the locker room, like because of all the media obligations, like usually at some point, and even after the NFC championship game doing the ceremony and all that, like we still went back to the team, like coach talked to us, we broke it down, kind of did our usual thing. and there just wasn't that for the Super Bowl

and I was just thinking like oh that's weird we just won like the biggest game of our lines is we're not to like see each other together as a team immediately after to celebrate so I thought that was kind of interesting and then obviously once you get

you know fully on the bus and you start leaving the stadium you know the media takes forever so not too much traffic at that point and then you have the escort to take you out of there so it's a good feeling I mean being on the bus it was awesome you know guys playing we're the champions

you know, singing together, kind of just reliving everything. And, you know, in about as good of a mood as you possibly can be given the circumstances. And then, you know, the team has a party set up for you. So get back to the hotel, you know, throw everything in your room, and then meet up with your friends' family and go down and party. How much sleep did you get that night? I got a decent amount. I got way more than most of my teammates, that's for sure.

I was going to say, how much did Travis get? Undecided. I don't know. So I know, you know, we had our party at the house pit bull, and it was Flo Rida. And that was actually pretty sweet. You know, that was a lot of fun. So I went down there. We got back probably like 1230-ish or one maybe, and so I went down there for a couple hours.

And around 2.30, maybe 3 o'clock, decided to call it a night and went upstairs. And then, you know, my wife stayed down there. and, you know, hung out with our friends that were there, and she stood up a little longer. But some of the other guys, I mean, they split. I think they went to live or whatever one of those clubs they're at. And, yeah, there was no curfew that night, so I have no idea what time those guys got home.

But we had to check our bags in by 9.30 a.m. the next morning and we're leaving at noon. So, you know, if you guys, a little bit late to the bus, the quite catch-up. How rowdy is the plane? Like, are people just dead by that point? or is it still going on the plane a little bit? A little bit of a combination.

You know, some guys have their time to kind of catch up on all the sleep and they didn't get the next door. It was cool. They came at the back. I mean, I feel like everyone's kind of seen, you know, Kelsey doing the whatever beer leers thing off the trophy.

And they brought the trophy back. We sit in the back of the plane. And so, they'll be back to us and said, I kind of passing around, everyone had fun, take their photos. You know,

like I said, I mean, I think right after travel to this thing, he was just asleep for the next two hours. If you, I think if you had the odds of, will Travis Kelsey find a way to drink off the Lombardi trophy? They wouldn't have been on the board in Vegas. Like, they wouldn't have even let you bet on it.

He's like, he's like the Leonardo da Vincii of, like, post-Super Bowl celebrating. Was he the MVP of the week, or was there, like, a secret MVP? No, I think he was, because he does such a good job of, like, keeping a little bit to having fun with it. And then, you know, being the right amount of kind of, kind of spirited and party animal. And, you know, it was awesome when we pulled up to the airport.

You know, we had a police that's scored to go everywhere. So we pulled to there and they all start kind of playing their cyrus and salute to us. And, you know, the guys got off their bikes and we're clapping for us and everything. And, you know, we're on, I'm on the bus with travel. And he goes, oh, man, I don't know. That town was for good. The whole bus just kind of cracks up dying and, you know, stuff like that. he's able to kind of get those one-liners in there.

Obviously, we're on a good mood at that point, but he always kind of knows what to say. What was your favorite memory of the week? Like, when you think about just the week before and the week after, what do you think is kind of the moment that's going to stick with you? It's weird, but just, like, going back

and watching everything kind of solidifies the fact that, like, we were there. Like, yeah, the first few days after, it doesn't quite seem real, because, you know, from my whole life, I've watched the Super Bowl. I've waited, you know, two weeks to watch it and all the build up,

and do your thing on that Sunday. You watch it however you watch it, and then when you're there, you know, you don't really get that aspect of it. And so you kind of just show up and, you know, the team preps you really well and says it's just another game and there's going to be a few more cameras flashing. But still, I mean, that's 62 or 64,000 person stadium

and you don't see the 100 million people that watch it. So, you know, being able to watch it after that kind of solidifies it. And there are just kind of moments that, I think it's usually the stuff after the game when you kind of, you know, be at something with your friends and talking to Pat about the jet loss play and stuff like that. And kind of cool moments like that where you reliving it together. How much of that play did you see in the moment?

Were you facing backwards? Did you see the ball get completed? Just walk me through that. I'm sure you've got a lot in your mind on that play. I can't remember who you were blocking on that play or how it went for you. I wasn't watching you, unfortunately. I usually am. Yeah, I had the easy job on that one.

So I had the tight-in trip house, which is the preferred temperature. help for the tackle. So I was going to up against D, but I knew the Tidon would be there for me originally. You know, you can kind of see the Tidon has a great job for me. There's a lot of separation between me and D.

I kind of keep kicking, keep kicking, keep kicking, get to the point where you can just sense like there's no way that I should keep kicking and then he keeps running the hoop and it kind of felt weird, so I kind of flip my hips and try to catch him, which obviously not supposed to do a tackle, but he also not supposed to be a tackle.

14 years deep as a quarterback, but and then that point, you know, I'm facing the other direction. So I just don't keep through with that field. We had a lot of completion. You know, we're in kind of a hurry-up office at that point. So now I've got to run however long that is, you know, 15 yards back plus the 57 yards we gained,

which is, again, not very friendly for our office alignment. So I got to run, you know, for the 70 yards downfield to get lined up to then go pass block again. So that was a play. I didn't have the craziness of it until after the fact, I didn't realize Pat was, you know, that deep. Which, and then when you watch it, you can see him take his normal kind of five-step drop,

and then he just feels a pressure with him keeps going. He got where to go, and then I didn't realize it basically flat foot through a ball, 50 yards across his body, which is the crazy fucking man. What did he say about that play after the game when you were talking about it? Well, I just said, hey, how about that nine-step drop on the wasp? You were giving him shit about being too deep on the game-changing play of the Super Bowl. You were at offensive linemen to your core, my friend. Well, I wasn't really giving him crap.

It was more just like, that was pretty crazy that you took a nine-step job on that one and we still able to make the play. And then I kind of gave him like, yeah, I also realized you kind of threw a 60-heads across your body, flat-footed. And he just gave me that look that was like, yeah, I know I'm the only head that can do that.

And it was pretty badass. And I kind of appreciated that. When you, like, I want to talk to him about him just a little bit. When you kind of think about just what he's been for the last couple years, and you and I've talked about him before, but does he kind of change the way you think about what's possible on a football field? Does it, like, recalibrate your understanding of how the game can work to a certain degree? It seems like it.

You know, I don't, you know, it's a little unfortunate, but I can't, like, watch him do his thing and kind of watch it all in full. You know, a lot of the things, you know, after a good game, I'll take a quarter after a bad game, I've got to stay. off, but after a good game, I'll check, and I'll see all the cool pat highlights that are flowing out there, and then even when they say during film, I mean, we don't really watch

him play, we don't watch the quarterback stuff. We don't just focus on the O-Line. So, you know, our O-Line coaches watch kind of the game with the rest of the group, so he, every now again, would just be like, hey, G, I see this throw out, I'll show it from, like, the right angle, and we're like, oh, my God, I didn't see that.

And so that's kind of a fun part of it. It was just seeing all the crazy stuff, like, the next day when we're watching film, and our online I'm like, hey, check this one out. That's so funny that you like watch clips of it just offhand, which makes sense, but it's just it's such a weird way to process it with, I think I'm so interested because, like, you said that, like, he has that badass streak to him. And he's also just got that, I don't know, it's the hair and it's the voice and it, it just

seems like there's such a weird contrast of him being this like, really badass motherfucker. But at the same time, he's got that like kind of, I don't know, not softness to him, but it's a strange combination. Like, have you ever been around somebody that just has that switch as a quarterback where they just have both of those sides that are so kind of diametrically opposed to them? No, and the weird thing is, you know, it's not even like a switch. They're kind of both there at the same time. And so, you know, he's always super competitive. He's always, you know, got that extreme confidence in himself.

And obviously we've seen he can pretty much do anything he tries to do. But then it's the reason he's so what like is, you know, he's still crazy humble and, you know, he doesn't do anything. to showy. He's kind of, you know, he props up his teammates whenever he gets a chance to. You know, he doesn't take any self-credit. You know, he's just like a total team guy that you wouldn't expect for a guy of his stature. And so you have to see that combination. I mean, that's the encouraging thing looking forward. You know, going into this year, people were questioning, oh, he's over 23, he just won the MVP, you know, if he can kind of rest on his laurels. And my whole thing was, no, I mean, he's so competitive. And he's such a lot of, he's such

a perfectionist, but he's always going to keep pushing himself. And, you know, combined with just how good a good duty is, you know, the future is even more exciting now. So, obviously, you know, he's the best football player in the world, but you were the best football player on the Chiefs during the playoffs. You can downplay it all you want. I'm not going to let you. The run you went on during the postseason is one of the best runs offensive linemen's probably ever had during that three-game stretch. When you're playing like that and you're in that sort of groove, other guys I've talked to you, they compare So, like, being a shooter and getting hot or a hitter seeing the ball.

Can you feel the difference in playing the position when you're settled into a groove like that? Yeah, there's a good confidence. We go wrong with him. Typically, you know, my first offensive line coach was George Warhoff. I mean, he used to say, you know, if you guys are doing your correct technique and everything's right, I mean, you're going to win 95% of the time. Like, it's a very small percentage of the time that you can do everything correctly, and the guy will still beat you.

You know, that will happen because of the NFL. But you typically look at a line play, and obviously you know this. Like almost every time a guy loses, it's because he took a panic set because he was going against Vaughn Miller and he was worried about his speed until he, you know, flew open at the snap. Or, you know, he was trying to punch the crap out of a guy and, you know, punch out of his shoes, and then he wasn't a good body position for the counter move. So you just get this, like, confidence state where you trust your stat, you trust your body position, you trust your hands. the thing I admire most about Joe Thomas was that he always seemed like he kind of just knew

what the guy was doing and his body just reacted to it and it seemed like the game was just so slow for him and so when you do get into a group like that I mean that's kind of the slowing of the game that people talk about, you know, maybe it's only one-tenth of a second but if you kind of see that move happening that one-tenth quicker, you know,

your reaction and your counter to it is going to be the thing that lets you be successful. So, you know, you definitely, you know, feel it when you're in those grooves. They're just kind of a confident thing more than anything. And I think in the Super Bowl, that was so important because you're playing against Armstead and Ford almost like every other play. And stylistically, they're so different. And your plans for them have to be so different that if you have that tenth of a second at the play where you can react to, this is the gap between these two guys. That's going to make all the difference. Yeah. I mean, like you

said, I mean, Armsteads are one of the strong to do with 300 pounds. And, you know, that, that experience pretty hard to deal with. And then D, I mean, his get-offs, I mean, really everything is the best, or one of the top three, if it's not the best, but, you know, getting off the ball and using that. And so, I will credit, you know, my son of Austin, who did a really good job with the silent count. You know, that was something, you know, going into a game all the road. If you don't trust a silent count, that's another thing where, you know, you're not

trusting it. Maybe you're slightly late. You feel like the guy's got an edge on you, start to lose trust in yourself. And, you know, your technique breaks down before the guy even beat you. And so, you know, we were kind of. all and awesome for those two weeks to make sure I was consistent. But, man, he wasn't. I felt like I got a really good jump and we can help tackle that.

I noticed that you were out of your stance before the ball was even snapped all the time, which is such a huge thing. So that's the limit of offensive line nerdery that we can do on this show by contract. So one thing before you get out of here, just what was it like with Andy at the end of the game? I know you guys kind of shared a moment. I mean, just winning it for him, just his reaction to everything, What did he say to you? Just kind of walk me through that entire night with him.

Yeah, I mean, Gore is wanting to, you know, obviously you want to win it for yourself, but you want to win it for him, just knowing what that means for him, you know, his place in the league, you know, playing for him, everybody loves him.

And so I'd just be able to go over and congratulate him and kind of see him in the moment. You know, it was really cool. And at this point, I can't remember what was said, but just, you know, congratulations, so happy for you type of thing. And, I mean, he was, you know,

as happy as I've seen him, those two days after. And so, you know, I think that he would never admit, you know, how much it mean to him or kind of the weight out of their shoulders. But, you know, I think you can see it and just knowing, you know, he's not going to have that question hanging around. You know, it's something that, you know, I always thought was unfair. I mean, we talk about small sample size all the time.

I mean, the playoffs are just, you try to get to the playoffs and then from there, anything can happen. And then he's made a career end of the playoffs. And I think that's, you know, what a coach should really be touched on. I totally agree. I mean, you know this. It takes so many tiny little breaks to get there. One little thing goes wrong.

That's the difference. And this year, it went right because you have him. You have the best player in the world and you have some pretty other good guys like yourself. All right, bud. I really appreciate you doing this. It's always good to chat with you. Go enjoy your time off. Go enjoy some time to cook and everything else.

And I'll talk to you later. All right, guys. Thank you so much for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast network. we will be back weekly this offseason. Kevin will be back with us next week. We'll be doing some draft shows from the Combine. We'll be doing free agency stuff, but we are going to be in your ears this entire winter and spring. So thank you very much for listening and we'll chat soon.