The Ringer NFL Show - Offseason Primer: Joe Burrow’s Pressure Tactics, Worst Lessons From Super Bowl LIX, and More

Episode Date: February 13, 2025

Sheil and Diante return after a short recovery from Super Bowl LIX and start the pod off by breaking down Joe Burrow’s not-so-subtle comments about improving the Bengals roster. They then shine a light on how the Eagles' success in the Super Bowl might lead to misinformed analysis by aspiring teams and members of the media (12:43). They end the pod by debating possible Myles Garrett destinations (22:06), positive pathways forward for the 49ers (35:58) and Rams (42:19), and which new coach hire will take their new team the furthest next season (51:21). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia and Diante Lee Producer: Chris Sutton Production Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody. Syriot Sohey from The Ringer here, and I wanted to let you know about a new show that I'm hosting, the Ringer WNBA show. We're breaking down and analyzing the latest happenings in the W, the personalities, the people who make the league as fascinating as it is, and we're going to be featuring some of the best guests and experts from around the league. Tap in with us every Friday through the end of the season over on the Ringer NBA show feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. To the Ringer NFL show, Shield Capadia here with Deontay League.

it's the start of the off season. Already? Yes, already. We are in the middle of the week after the Eagle Super Bowl win over the Chiefs and already the headline, you know, franchise tag, mock drafts, trade rumors,

Deante, are you ready to start absorbing all of this yet or has your mind not reset? I feel like I am probably dealing with the bigger Super Bowl hangover than at least half the Eagles roster right now. Get home. fly back on Monday, get a nice night of rest.

And I'm looking up on Tuesday and I'm like, oh, man, I got to kick some of these meetings down the road. I don't think my brain is quite prepared for me to get right back into the swing of things. So yeah, I'm definitely still recovering. But like you said, I mean, the offseason hits quick. By the time we look up, we're not even going to be talking about what happened in the Super Bowl at all in a couple weeks' time because it's going to be combined, free agency, NFL draft stuff from there.

And this is where I think a lot of the next storylines will be talking about. going into 2025, it all kind of get started here. I think as we record this, we're actually exactly a month away from the start of free agency, which is just wild. As you mentioned, Combine coming up here in a couple weeks. So here's what we're doing. We thought, you know what, let's just, you know, casually throw out some kind of offseasony type topics.

We'll just go back and forth, ping pong them. What's interesting us, it could be a certain team, what they're going to do. It could be a certain player. It could be a storyline. whatever's on our minds where we're saying, you know, we're kind of interested in this, this offseason in the months ahead. Obviously, in the weeks ahead, we will do deeper dives, you know, on all this stuff, free agency trades, the draft and all of that. But this is kind of just a primer, a little wet your beak for what's to come here. So that's

what we're going to do. We each have three storylines each or three questions each, however you want to phrase them. I'll get us started, Deonté, with what I'm interested in. And this was number one on my list. And it is, maybe I'm just playing to, you know, type here. But will Joe Burroughs pressure tactics work on the Bengals? I think this is a very fascinating storyline, Deonté, because Joe Burrow, since basically the stretch run of the actual season and just has kind of been nonstop,

he has been putting pressure on the Bengals organization saying, no, no, no, we can sign T. Higgins and bring him back. And we should do that. we should take care of Trey Hendrickson. There are things we can do with the salary cap. I was reading on ESPN.com today. They had a good recap. Burrow went on the part of my take podcast

and was like really going into detail about how, hey, they can lower my cap hit by converting my salary into a signing bonus, which then, you know, spreads the cap hit over the length of the contract and gives them some flexibility. He was referencing the Eagles, which, yes, that is something the Eagles do

very often to, you know, pay cash up front. And you can have some flexibility. with your salary cap. So he's gone on the offensive. And I personally love it. I think if you're a Bengals fan, you have to love it. You have the quarterback,

put pressure on the organization to put together the best team possible around him. And now we see what the Bengals do. Do they change their tune on T. Higgins? Is this Jamar Chase contract extension going to get heated? Or is it just going to be like, hey, he's one of the top two or three wide receiver in the NFL.

Let's go ahead and pay him top of the market. you do with Trey Hendrickson? What do you do with the rest of the roster? They need O-line help. They need an influx of talent on defense. So I'm not saying you can fix all of these things in one off season, but this was a very good offense last year. And that's usually the hardest part to figure out. And so you kind of have a very straightforward path to figuring that out. And it's about, hey, show me the franchise quarterback that you are going to do these things because I'm tired to watching Patrick Mahomes in that Super Bowl almost every single season. So Deonti, that to me, the Bengals, how they respond to some of this pressure from Joe Burrow.

That's high on my list of what I've got my eyes on in the weeks and months ahead. I'm with you. And I think that it's twofold, right? Like, number one, you're looking at Patrick Mahomes lose. You get to see the attrition that's happened with Kansas City's roster offensively. We talked a lot about that in the wake of the Super Bowl, just some of the swings they've taken, some of the ways they've missed in terms of trying to add talent to that offensive line. and the wide receiver core.

So you don't want to become that team. And you also know that because this team is dealing with the Trishon, they're likely going to end up losing Trey Smith, depending on what that number is going to look like in free agency. They have other offensive line problems that they need to address as well. You also don't want to miss an opportunity to maybe strike in the AFC. You know, they had a hot end to the year. I mean, like you said, basically since after the trade deadline,

I mean, he has been campaigning anytime there's a microphone in front of his face when they started winning again, we got to keep this core together. he's inspired his teammates. I've heard from Jay Hendrickson. You've heard that Jamar Chase is in on this effort. T. Higgins has made it clear that he wants to stay. And I guess it's shocking in some ways because you usually hear this maybe from a head coach, right?

Like, hey, keep my guys together. I want to keep this group together. We're close. We're going to take another chance. And maybe there's a little bit more alignment from top to bottom in this franchise. It's been really quiet with Cincinnati outside of Borough, which is why it's necessary, right? Your quarterback now in this moment needs to be able to say, hey, I understand we've been trying to take these swings and add pieces marginally.

We've taken a lot of chances on young guys in our defensive secondary after Jesse Bates and Chedoboia Uzié and some of the other guys that helped us on our road to the Super Bowl have left this roster. And that's all well and good. But what we can't do is rest on our laurels and allow our stars to leave and hope that we're going to be perfect in the draft. I love the fact that he brought up the Eagles as an example as a team that does take a lot of aggressive swings in the draft and things have worked out for them.

and that's just kind of the nature of taking swings and hoping that you're able to develop guys and that you've scouted well. But the Eagles don't rest upon that, right? When AJ Brown is available as a distressed asset, they're willing to go spend high levels of draft capital to bring that guy in and extend them immediately and give him what he wanted, what market rate is.

You've got to be able to do the same thing for Cincinnati, and you can't allow the first six, seven weeks of the season to bias you against something that has worked for you for the last half decade. And if Joe Burrow is willing to come to the table and restructure his deal because he knows he wants to be in Cincinnati for the long term, that I don't think that there's any reason not to go do that and not to try to find every edge, go underneath, you know, lift that couch cushion and look for every dollar that you can find to make sure you can keep your star players.

Because for all the issues we talked about this year, the Bengals are never far from getting hot again and making a run if you have all the star talent that they have on the offensive end. Yeah, they were fifth and offensive DVOA this year. If you look at the teams that were in the top eight, they're the only ones that didn't make the playoffs. That's almost like, if you just look at one thing to guarantee, like, you know, and you told me nothing else about a team, usually this isn't like a one-season thing.

If you look at the last five years, 10 years, you kind of look at that list of the eight most efficient offenses. And now that there's 14 teams in the playoffs, it almost, I say almost because it didn't for them. They're the exception. They're the exception. Yeah. It almost guarantees you at least a shot in the playoffs. And once you're in the playoffs, we know anything can happen. And so, again, it's not like a one-off season thing for them.

They could be in Super Bowl contention next year. They would need some things to go right. And they tried stuff defensively. They tried to draft ahead of losing those free agents. It didn't work out. That's the nature of the draft. You know, you can plan for, hey, we're going to lose Jesse Bates. We're going to draft Dax Hill.

You know, we're going to lose. They drafted on the defensive line. And those guys haven't really panned out the way they've wanted him to. So it's not like their plan there was misguided. It was a fine plan. But to your point, I do think there's going to be a lot of owners who are going to be filling the heat this offseason when they look at the way the Eagles are just willing to spend cash at crazy levels because it gives them the best chance to win. It's like, you're making a lot of money. You should be willing to do that, you know, these other teams.

And it kind of goes under the radar. It's sort of the only advantage you can have in a salary cap world where you're all dealing under the same restrictions. Where can your edge be? Well, one way your edge can be is you pay. up front, you add void years, you extend their cap hits, and now you're able to add better players specifically to your point when you have Joe Burrow as your quarterback in his prime. Like, now's the time to do things like that. If you were on a different timeline and you didn't have the quarterback, you didn't have the wide receiver, then I could see, all right, maybe you

don't want to do those things and you want to spend more wisely. But when you have that window, it's really not a bad way to operate. So we'll see what the Cincinnati Bengals do. I'm with you. Like you were, you were mentioning that usually as the head coach. I don't remember a quarter, but like sometimes a quarterback will make a passing comment,

you know, and it'll be played. It might just be about one player, right? Yeah. It's like clear like, okay, that's his buddy.

He wants to keep his buddy in, in the system. This has been every player, Trey Hendrickson, T. Higgins, Jamar Chase. I want every guy that has helped us win football games

to stay in our uniform. It's very commendable for Joe Burrow when he was talking on part of my take about just the ways that you can kind of come to the table and restructure contracts. I was like, man, he sounds more qualified to be a GM than a lot of other guys that we hear from the microphone. When you're talking about trying to put your roster together and maintain your contention window,

and you love to hear that from a quarterback, right? This is not a guy who is under the delusions of believing, hey, as long as you've got me under center, you've got a shot. Or as long as it's just me and Jamar Chase, we've got a shot. I think that he clearly understands that he played his best football this season. If you look at at least most of the metrics would suggest that this is the best version of Joe Burrow we've seen. I would say the film supports that as well, especially down the stretch of this season. He was lights out in a lot of high leverage games. And if they didn't have that cold start to the year, not only do they make the playoffs,

there's a chance that guy might have been third and MVP voting because of how well he played this year. I don't think that you can miss out on a window, on this window of opportunity. And I use that word, that word is almost loaded sometimes when we talk about what it means to contend in the NFL. We said it on the podcast. I know I've noted this on the podcast that the idea of a window, a lot of, a lot of times it's a false notion, right? Usually, you're either good enough to win in the year you're playing in or you're not. It's hard to try to project out unless you just have a dominant young core of players for these guys as everybody is becoming a veteran. And now you do have to think more one to two year window type. I do think that now will be the time to be aggressive. If it doesn't work, then maybe you've got to take your medicine in other ways in 2027, 2028 when you are restructuring these deals and you kick the can down the road financially and now you've got to deal with some uncomfortable decisions in terms of roster building. But right now, when your quarterback is playing his best football, Jamar Chase just had an

incredible season as a receiver, one of the best that we've seen. You can't allow this opportunity to pass you by when you know that you can play right with Baltimore based on your two games this year. You know you can play with Kansas City based on the way you played them this year. And that is with the limited roster. Why take a step back now if you know that you're closer to them than you are being one of those teams that missed the playoffs? Yeah, it's actually low risk with the quarterback. I mean, because you're paying him the amount, the guaranteed money for quarterbacks of Joe Burrow's stature actually doesn't matter that much because those guys almost never are getting like released because of performance. You know, so it's like you're getting that money, but you have to pay him in cash up front. And they could do the same thing with Jamar Chase. You could give him the biggest signing bonus of any wide receiver in the NFL, spread that over the course of whatever it's going to be, a four or five year contract. And you could, you know, that that's not going to really hurt you as much against the cap either. It's just a matter of how you kind of want to spread that money around. So we'll see what the Bengals do. I'm with you. I think it earns goodwill with his teammates

when he's just like, like you said, he's not just, hey, we have to keep one player. He's like, the organization needs to start operating like this so that we can maximize the good players on the roster. So we'll see what happens there. All right, that was my first one. Deonti, what are you sort of looking at as you kind of look ahead to the off season here? Well, I mean, Joe Burrow brought the team up. You know, the team that won the Super Bowl, you know, coming off. of last week's results. The question I'm most interested in is what is the worst lesson a team can learn

either from Phillies win or if you are focusing on Kansas City's loss. That's something I've been thinking a lot about, right? You listen to these recap podcasts. You're looking at people's columns in the wake of these games. And I think that, and this is not something that's particular to football or particular

to this season, right? You just make these sweeping generalizations. All you've got to do is go get an AJ Brown. Well, an A.J. Brown isn't always available. And the GM got five. after trading is AJ Brown. So I'm not saying that it's that easy. It's not always that easy. It's not always as easy as, hey, let's just go draft all the guys that came from this historic

collegiate defense and just wait for them to finally kind of turn the corner in their development. But I do wonder, like, what is the right lesson and wrong lesson to learn from both sides of what you should and shouldn't do in terms of constructing your roster in 2025 and going forward? I love this one so much. We haven't discussed this before, but I'm so with you. Like, anytime I hear about a trend in the NFL, my initial instinct is like, no, that's not a trend.

It's a one. Yeah, it's not a trend. It's not a trend. But honestly, I feel like people in the NFL do talk that way. Well, where there'll be like, well, the team that just won the Super Bowl or got to the Super Bowl did X. And then they'll make a move in the offseason. And they'll say, well, that team did it. And it almost never works out. So I've got a couple here on my list. I'll start out with this one. I think that the idea that you can rebuild an entire position group in one draft is this is very rare. That's probably the worst thing you can learn. Yeah.

I mean, the Eagles did it with Quinnian Mitchell and Cooper DeGine. And those guys were awesome. And they absolutely were key to them winning the Super Bowl. It's just rare. I mean, it very rarely happens where you're going to try. draft two guys in the secondary who you're going to lean on as starters and you're going to have the best defense in the NFL and they're going to play awesome. That is not what happens with rookies. That's not what happens with rookie defensive backs normally. They knocked it out of the park.

Give them credit for that. Those guys had a fantastic season. Give credit to the Eagles coaching staff for developing those guys. But if you're a team and you're going into this draft saying, hey, you know, we stink on the offensive line. Let's use a first and a second round pick on the offensive line and then we're going to be fine. It's probably not going to work. You're probably going to be looking up in week six going, well, this guy isn't really that good. This guy's going through growing pains.

You know, he still has the high level snap. So hopefully we can develop him. But for him to jump in right away and be good, that's probably not going to happen. So that was one of the things that came to mind. For me, I love that. I love that reason. I'll say for me, and this is maybe tied to it, I guess, and this kind of overarches everything I think we'll talk about in this segment.

You want to be wary of general managers who start thinking. that they have all the answers, right? You want to be wary of a general manager that says, we're going to keep a head coach that is kind of on the fringe of whether, you know, we're on the fringe, whether or not that guy should still hold this position or not. And we're going to dictate everything that happens with the coaching staff and what we're going to do in the draft and what we're going to do in free agency.

It is going to be the GM show. It's going to be the show of ownership's brain trust. I would be very wary if you're a team not to fall into that trap. so much of what works for Philadelphia is kind of specific to Philadelphia. Not to say other teams can't accomplish that. The reason why they've been able to acquire talent comes back to what we were talking about

with Joe Burrow, right? Their aggressive was looking to restructure contracts. So they try to keep, you know, their cap hits low, spending is high. Not every team is willing to do that, and we've talked about how more teams should be willing to do so. More Orner should be willing to put up that upfront money so that way you can play a little bit more games

with contracts in the years that followed signing them. I would just be really wary of head coaches who are stripped of their opportunity to hire assistants, higher coordinators, GMs that are really overreaching and trying to make more personnel decisions than they already should have on their table as is. I think that would be a really poor lesson to learn from this is thinking that any GM that's got a little bit of heat to their name can be Howie Roseman because it's very particular to just what Philadelphia has going on.

Yeah, no, it's a great point. It's a unique situation with the GM and the owner are calling the shot. and are involved in everything. And it's sort of a, you know, they will have all the information from all the departments, analytics, scouting, coaching, medical staff. They take all the, you know, when things go badly, it's looked at as, hey, you know,

kind of what you're describing, that, man, they're just, you know, this GM just has full control of everything. When things go great, you know, then it looks like what it just looked like. And, you know, he's on a hot street and it's worked for them. You're right. I think there are other GMs in the NFL. That'll be interesting.

Will there be GMs making power plays? Like, hey, look at the Eagles. This is the way they run their organization where their GM has his hands on everything. Well, who are you? Are you able to do the same things or not? And like you said, it was just a unique situation with the way they kind of collapsed last year where Nick Siriani didn't have the juice for his coaching staff this year. And so it was like, do you want to keep your job?

Then this is kind of how it has to be. He agreed. Next thing, you know, they're Super Bowl champs. But yeah, it's not like that's a model that you can replicate, I think, if you're another team. So that's a good one as well. The last one I had for this, Deonté, was just, I'm curious about the running back market this all season. Is it, hey, they spend on Sequin Barclay and the Ravens spent on Derek Henry and the Packers spent on Josh Jacobs. Running backs are back.

And I'm not saying, you know, I hope running backs get paid. You know, they have these short shelf lives for their careers and they're on a rookie contract. so I'm all for that. At the same time, if I'm a team, you have to make sure, like, you are a situation where that's going to make an impact, you know? Do you have the pieces around them, the offensive line, is your quarterback a running threat? Do you have a good scheme where you feel like this is a piece that can really, you know, level us

up versus this is the thing that's going to solve all our problems? You know what I mean? So I'm interested to see with just free agent running backs, running back trades, maybe even the draft with running backs, what's it going to look like? and are some of the teams going to learn the wrong lessons from teams like the Eagles and Ravens, who already had very good teams before the running back, and that was kind of the final piece. 1,000 percent. Like, I definitely have an eye on Buffalo.

I don't know if you saw that James Cook recently, I think it was on Instagram, kind of posted like $15 million. And I'm guessing that that's him kind of intimating where he thinks... Oh, I did not see that. What he thinks that his market value is extension-wise. It's officially the off-season. There we go. 1,000 percent.

And I was really struck by... that because A, he was certainly one of, I would say, a top five, top six back in the NFL this year, but it also raises an interesting point about a guy that splits a lot of snaps. He doesn't play very often on obvious passing downs because Ty Johnson is so good out of the backfield, both as a catcher and a blocker. Ray Davis has spelled him, even on run downs. They have a great running back rotation, even though Cook is clearly the featured guy and the best guy of the bunch. It just opens up, I think, some interesting discussions. If you're, if you're a brand, and Bean, if you're Buffalo, if you're any brain trust right now in the NFL that's

looking at what happened this year and recognizing that, hey, if we're able to strike while the iron's hot with offensive line play and get a good old line, build the right offensive infrastructure where we can run the ball well and kind of balance our operation out, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're missing piece is a $13 to $15 million running back. It would be ashamed to see the running back position for as much as I want to see them be paid, be set back in terms of narrative if guys are being overpaid and we are not seeing commensurate value with contracts. So I do think that there is a fine line to toe, right, when you look at this free agent class of where do you send your money, right? Do you take a swing at a Najee Harris?

Do you spend on a Nick Chubb and cross your fingers that, hey, with a year separated from that horrific injury, maybe we can get something bad, maybe we can get some good return on investment for those guys, you think about the teams that could use a running back, how How desperate are you going to be in the draft? You know, what is going to make the most sense in terms of building yourself from the trenches into the backfield? I'm really fascinated to see whether or not teams just look and say, hey, Sequin Barkley, Derek Henry, two offensive player of the year candidates, and they were just signed for big

money. Josh Jacobs, one of the best yards after contact back seasons that we've seen in a little while. Let's just go find a guy that's available is at the top of our availability, that we can just put at the top of our board and do whatever it takes to acquire that guy. I think that there's a lot of danger that you can run into with that. And I'm saying that as somebody who was almost always pining for running backs to be prioritized and featured and paid their commensurate value. I'm just a little fearful of what that's going to mean this offseason knowing how teams overreact. No doubt.

Something that certainly keep an eye on. All right, let's take a break. We come back. I've got my second thing. I'm keeping an eye on this offseason. All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. Deonti, I can't decide if this is one that we're going to spend hours discussing and nothing's going to happen, or is it going to be legitimately the biggest story of the offseason?

And that is where will Miles Garrett end up? I was going through this, and I was trying to think, all right, what do I actually think is going to happen? And I was really kind of on the fence here. You know, I think it's possible that he stays put and the Brown say, hey, you know, a little financial compensation reward, that never hurts. And they say, hey,

we're committed to winning here. We know it doesn't look great right now, but we were in the playoffs two years ago. We got the coach. Just give us some time here. We can't trade you. Or is Miles Garrett dug in here? And he's like,

this wasn't about money. This is about me watching all these great players in the postseason. And I've been an awesome player. And I'm going to be a Hall of Famer. and I've never had that even one moment where people can look at and say, this guy was playing on a championship weekend or let alone the Super Bowl. So I'm very curious to see what the Cleveland Browns do. If Miles Garrett changes his tune, what teams are interested,

you know, I think if you're the Browns, we've discussed it before, you've got to get to have a big time haul or you got to feel like you have no other choice, you know, one of those where the players just like, listen, you can do what you want, but I'm not showing up to play for this team. Yeah, right. And Miles Garrett has the money where, you know, he can go ahead and do that if he wants to. So I was looking at different teams. You know, I'll just throw something out there. We did this before, but I did kind of a reset today looking through the league. You mentioned the bills earlier. Do the bill? Speaking of lessons, this kind of ties together what we were just talking about. Do they say, man, look at what, you know, we haven't been able to have a single good defensive game against Patrick Mahomes in the playoffs in any of these years. That has been a constant. Sean McDermott has been a very good coach, a very good defensive coach throughout his career, but against Mahomes,

he has not had an answer. Do they look at the Eagles and say, that's what we got to do? Because the bills were already sort of in that boat. They make that big play for Von Miller. They spent draft capital. It just hasn't worked out, but it doesn't mean that their thinking is wrong.

So they say, let's go get the sure thing. Miles Garrett is going to be a problem for any opposing quarterback he faces. Let's go out and let's make a big offer to the Cleveland Browns. The Eagles are a team. we've talked about before.

Do they say, hey, it's time to get greedy here, you know, let's be bold. We value the position. We'll pay him. Vic Fangio does not want to blitz. We just saw how powerful a four-man pass-fresh can be against a great quarterback. Let's go give them two first-round picks and let's go get Miles Garrett. So that's another team. The Chargers, I know you've mentioned them before.

I don't, they're a team where you look at it and say, you know, how much drafts capital do you want to give up because you have other areas of the roster? Yeah, they're in a tricky spot. Yeah. So I'm not sure, but maybe. You know, they need talented players in the front seven. The commanders, I know we talked about them before. Does Dan Quinn say, hey, let's go get my Michael Parsons type pass rusher for this defense.

We're not paying Jade and Daniels right now. I feel like if you're Miles Garrett, you might look at that and say, yeah, when I said I want to be on a contender, I watch what Jade and Daniels did this year. That qualifies. And then the last one where it doesn't feel like their type of move, but I had to write it down. because if you're the Detroit Lions and you say, we lost both our coordinators, you know,

the vibes aren't quite what they were a short time ago, but if we show up to next season with the same pieces on offense and then Miles Garrett and a healthy Aidan Hutchinson on defense, we can be right back there. That's a heck of a football team, that's a heck of a football team in their Super Bowl window. So I think ultimately,

like if you said, you got to put a hundred down now on whether he's traded or not, I think I'm a no. I think he's on the Browns, but I don't feel that strongly about it. So where are you with all this Miles Garrett stuff? You know, it's funny, the day that it came out, I think maybe just like the swell of information

and then he was showing up to Radio Row, so you get the interviews. And he sounds very resolute in his decision. So I feel good about like, oh, yeah, man, this is definitely happening. I think the more that I've kind of sat with it and tried to think of it more as Andrew Barry and the Cleveland Browns,

the harder it is to kind of wrap your mind around trading your best football player, a guy that you have for another two years under contract, someone you know because of the state of your team, even if we are not close to contending right away, I can tell you we can blow the market out of the water with your next contract, buddy. And I understand that this is about more than just getting paid and getting a bunch of sacks for you, but I'm telling you, you'll probably feel a little bit better.

with 30 plus $1 million per year, hidden your account, right? And I do think that that might be ultimately where this lands, especially if a team is not willing to give up that Godfather offer. But I was thinking a lot about which teams have proven themselves to be contenders over the last couple of seasons or close enough to where when your head coach goes into the GM's office and says, give me this guy. Don't tell me about what you wanted to do in the draft.

Don't tell me about what you wanted to do in free agency. nothing is going to outweigh getting me that guy. You get me that guy. I will get you to the conference championship at minimum. The two teams that came up to mind for me were in the NFC North. Actually, funnily enough, you brought up Detroit. I was thinking about Minnesota and I was thinking about Green Bay. And these are two teams that have tried to build themselves in the trenches,

especially on the offensive side, right? You think about Green Bay, they're almost always drafting big bodies, offensive line, defensive line. They're taking a lot of swings at young guys. Hasn't really panned out. Rishon Gary looks a little bit more like a number two rusher at this stage in his career than he did when it looked like he might be that all pro level fringe all pro pro, certainly pro bowl level edge rusher before the injuries kind of started taking him off the field and his production is kind of waxed and waned. I would like to see that kind of defense, seeing what Jeff Hathley did this year with that really aggressive scheme, being able to draw up all these interesting ways to rush the passer. I would like to see Miles Garrett playing a scheme like that

where he can still be featured as a hand-down pass rusher, but you know enough is happening around you schematically and you have the quarterback where if you get to the playoffs, I've got an edge rusher like Miles Garrett and I've got a quarterback that plays as aggressively as Jordan Love. You've got to feel like all we need are home games. If we get home games, we should feel very confident that we can do enough

to get ourselves over the top. And that's before you even address what they can do with the wide receiver room to maybe bolster that a little bit. and from Minnesota's perspective, I don't necessarily think that they're as close to contending as a Green Bay. I think if you're Kevin O'Connell, and this might be a bigger conversation that I'm sure we'll get to at some point in this podcast, regardless of what you thought of J.J. McCarthy last spring,

you have to acknowledge the fact that he did just have a knee injury as a rookie. You don't have enough data to go off to say for certain what he is or isn't, and you know that the quarterback you just had showed up really well for you in the regular season, but just wasn't that guy in the moments that you needed him where you needed him to be the most. I would have a hard time if I'm Kevin O'Connell, Cozia, Adolfo Mensa, Brian Flores, sitting and talking and I thinking, man, you see what we are as coaches?

Could you imagine if you gave us a player on defense as good as this guy? Look what my defensive coordinator is doing with the scraps that we're picking up from across the league. He turned Byron Murphy into a legitimate cornerback, and I really wasn't sure what his role in the league would be when he was playing in Arizona. They got Andrew Van Ginkgo to look like a Pro Bowl level player. Could you imagine if he just gave him one featured edge rusher to be able to build the rest

of that front seven around? I can only imagine what Brian Flores could do with that. I think that that would keep them in that fringe contender picture long enough to where you can take some of the weight off of J.J. McCarthy if he is ultimately the starter at the beginning of the 2025 season. And then the last team for me, and, you know, you kind of brought them up was the Chargers, right? I do think it's tricky for them. Like you said, they're kind of, it's comfortable in one respect to be in a position where you can say, hey, we can go very draft heavy and try to reset our timeline a little bit because we already paid our quarterback.

We've got other positions of need to address. Let's take a bunch of swings, get young, and then let's come back to the table and see exactly how far away we are next offseason when our cap sheet is totally. clean. And then there's the other way, right? Which is, hey, we got to the playoffs. We thought we were the certain kind of team. And then we dealt with a team that actually had an elite strength in Houston with their pass rush, with their coverage unit. And we had no answer for that. And our defense did not stand up very well against a high level quarterback in those moments either. I would like to see a team like that instead of, again, resting on your laurels and saying we've got our franchise quarterback, we've got a head coach we can trust, we can take our time with

it instead saying, let's take a big swing now. They're going to have a need at edge. You can part with some draft capital. You'll still have the money to be able to bring in other veterans at positions of need and just see where you land. I would like to see that for the Chargers. I would not be surprised if John Hortiz says, hey, we just got a clean cap sheet.

Let's not tie our money up all over again with the veteran that we're going to have to pay into his 30s because we didn't want to do that with Khalil Mack. And we're probably not going to want to do that with John. Joey Bosa. So I could understand them not going in that direction. I just think that for them, and obviously appreciating Justin Herbert and what Jim Harbaugh has done as a coach in year one, I would like to see them really kind of push the button so they don't end up falling behind. If a team like Houston does take another step forward or if Cincinnati is able to write the ship in 2025, we could very quickly be looking at this team in that bottom kind of seven-seedish range very quickly

if things don't go well for them this offseason. Yeah, we don't totally know how the Chargers are going to operate or want to operate or what they think about timeline just because last year, like you said, was about sort of a reset with the new regime. They weren't really in position to make big move so that they're an interesting team. When you're talking about the Packers, I was thinking this generation's version of Reggie White. I know that was a free agent, but man, just go out and get the baddest fast rush around the planet and see if he can kind of give you that bump that you've been looking for when you have been a very good team, but you haven't been able to quite get over the hump. So that was interesting.

And yeah, the thought of what Brian Flores would do with Miles Garrett, that obviously would be a fun one as well. So we'll see. I feel like probably between now and the draft, you know, I think of the draft passes and now you're saying, all right, you're giving up 20, 26 draft picks. It might, you know, it really wouldn't be as enticing. But if you're the Browns and you say, hey, let's figure out a way to accumulate resources, someone blow us away with an offer here, then maybe you get something.

I do think it's going to take a first. I think it might take two first. I think it might take a first and a second that can turn into a first. Like something in that neighbor, anything short of that, I'm just hanging up the phone. I mean, if there's no possibility of me getting multiple first,

then I'm not even considering it for as good of a player as Miles Garrett is still under 30, durable, consistent. I mean, it wouldn't make sense for me if I'm the Browns to do that. that, again, unless I felt like we've tried, we've explored every other option and we have no other choice. I know he's not going to show up.

He's going to make it toxic. It's already bad enough in the building as it is. We just need to wash our hands of this. And I think that for as much resolve as Miles Garrett had in answering questions about his trade request last week, he also does not strike me as a guy who seems very interested in having this nasty, ugly falling out. I feel that way too, yeah.

I think that he wants to, I think that in what he was trying to get across is, hey, I'm mature about this. I just want my organization to be mature about this. Let me go do this. I'm trying to give you guys an opportunity to move on for me and get something back. So I don't know if he'll make it ugly. I'm just really fascinated to see if they do get to training camp,

just what the energy is going to be like in Cleveland if you do just run this roster back. It's not a good place to be. I can imagine right now if you're just trying to forecast what 2025 is going to look like. And we said it when the request first came down, I just can't shake the thought, even though I don't expect it to happen, I can't shake the thought that if you're Andrew Barry and you can convince the Hazam family that, hey, man, if you just let me trade this guy away and just reset our calendar, I can flip this roster.

I still believe in our head coach. Give me a couple opportunities to go rebuild this defense, rebuild this offense with some young draft picks. I do think that that ultimately comes down to the compensation. And in closing, I will say to your point, if you're not talking about a, a right now first round pick that I can use in this draft, plus either another one, two-twos, or a perennial Pearl Bowl level player, don't call.

Because the answer is flatly no. And the answer should probably still be no, even if you're putting those things on the table, because it's really hard to get a player as good as Miles Garrett to be in your building in the first place. I don't know if it's worth wagering. I'm just really fascinated to see to the point of having these different directions you can go, what Cleveland thinks about it's three to five year,

forecast right now. Yeah, this is one of the five or ten most valuable non-quarterbacks in the entire NFL, just to kind of put it bluntly. So that's the, you know, that's the aisle you're shopping in where- Imagine what it would have cost to get Aaron Donald at 30 years old if he asked for a trade. Exactly. Yeah, well said. All right. What is your second one, Deonté? What do you got that you're looking at? So I didn't bring this team up and talking about Miles Garrett, but they were one I I had in the back of my mind. I'm just really interested about what it's going to take or how long it's going to take for the San Francisco 49ers to get back into the picture, at least in terms of the national conversation as a genuine Super Bowl contender. This is a fascinating offseason for me.

When you look at this team, I think that they ran into the wall that any team that is trying to contend year over year would run into, right? They've been able to pry this contention window open much longer than most teams could because they got a Brock Purdy at the end of the draft. These guy turns into a quality starter this year, I thought at least in a, the first half of the year. He was playing like a high level starter. And then things just kind of caught up with them in terms of injuries. They have to address offensive line.

You need a succession plan for Trit Williams specifically. And even the guys on the interior, they just have not blown us away in terms of their down to down play. That's been a big effect on why they haven't been able to run the ball as effectively or as explosively this year. The defense has aged. I don't know if Charverius Ward is interested in coming back. Obviously, there are a lot of extenuating circumstances that come with that.

loss of a child. He spoke candidly about when I'm in the Bay Area, it's hard for me to think about just football because of what's going on in his life. So it seems like he might be on the way out. They just need roster turn in general

because they're guys of age and they just were not as productive. There are a lot of different directions San Francisco can go in. I know there are only two things I know. That's one. Kyle Shanahan has never seemed interested in the rebuild and John Lynch has never said anything about that either.

So I don't expect them to say, hey let's just look at 2025 as a total reset year. I'm just fascinated to what the window is going to be for them to try to pivot this roster and stay in the playoff picture going over the next one to two seasons. Yeah, you brought this one up and I was kind of like, do they have a chance to just be in the mix next year? You know, like looking at the landscape of the NFC, obviously you've got the Eagles, a team like the Lions should be good, the Packers should be good, but like are the 49ers that far behind a team like the Green Bay Packers? I mean, I don't know.

Like, it wouldn't shock me if they win the NFC West. Healthy, you can make an argument. Right. I mean, offensively, you kind of give the coach the benefit of the doubt, like you said, even this year where it felt like the year from hell, I think they were, what, ninth or tenth in offensive DVOA. It's not like they were 28th, you know, and that was in a year where it felt like almost nothing went right for them offensively.

So you've got that offensively, defensively. You bring Robert Sala in. You still got Nick Bosa and Fred Warner. Like those are two cornerstone people. pieces to build the defense around if you're a good defensive coordinator. So they're kind of a team. You're right. They're a team in flux where I'm not sure exactly what they're going to do.

Are they going to trade Debo Samuel? You know, that that's been in the news here over the last week that they're going to give him permission. There's an issue of compensation there. Like, I don't know what that lets you back. Yeah, I almost, we had the Cooper Cup conversation. Was it last week or whenever where I said people are going to be surprised how little they get back for Cooper Cup?

I kind of feel that way about Depot Samuel. Yeah, he's age 29 season, violent style of play. I mean, he had 670 yards receiving last year and in Kyle Shanahan offense. It's not like he's coming off a great season. I mean, and they were as drop back heavy as Kyle, as Kyle Shanahan offense has ever been. So it's not for a lack of opportunity, you know.

And you see what we saw what it was in the Super Bowl two years ago where he wasn't really separating. I mean, that's always kind of been the book on him, right? Is it better against zone than he is against man? I think that we've seen maybe him lose half a stride. in terms of his explosive speed. You look at his use within San Francisco's offense. They're not manufacturing touches for him in the same way.

Part of that, I think, is just because of Brock Purdy style of play. Part of that is because I think that Debo is just taking a little bit of a step back. That's not saying that he's not a useful player, right? It's not exactly Cooper Cup where it's like, okay, you really have to be concerned that this guy might have to miss five, six, seven games per season for as long as he's playing football because his lower body injuries are really kind of piling up. But with Debo, I mean, it's a similar conversation in terms of the way he plays, how he's had the ball in his hands early in his career. He has put on some quasi running back mileage, always running over the middle of the field.

They built a whole running back package around him in 2019 and 2020 where he was taking a lot of snaps out of the backfield. Obviously, you know, you get a bunch of motion stuff with him as well. I think, like you said with Cooper Cup, I think people are going to hear what the rumor compensation is, what teams are willing to part with to acquire a Devo Samuel and feel like it's an insult. And I think that it's going to be easy to forget what it looks like on a weekly basis for him. Outside of what was his athletic prime a few years ago, I still think he could be useful. I just think the shelf life is pretty clear for a guy like that. And you have to be very careful about giving up more than like day three kinds of picks for a guy like this.

Yeah, it's like his playing style was one of the most fun of any player, I would say, in the last six, seven, eight years in his prime. I was just like, I love this guy. He's just looking to inflict pain on defenders. It's just a very rare skill for a wide receiver to have, but that does take its toll. And you're right. He hasn't had, you know, he hasn't missed nearly as many games as Cooper Cup has missed. He's entering his age 29 season. So if you look at it, like, hey, what can we get out of him for the next two seasons? Maybe if you're a contending team or whatever, I get it. I'm just, you know, I'm curious to see what that trade market looks like. So they're an interesting team. You're right. They're sort of a forgotten team, you know, because they were just out of it.

It felt like so early this season where, you know, they were eliminated. I kept hanging on and hanging on. And then they were eliminated from contention. And there were still, what, three, four weeks left in the regular season. So it's like, all right, they're not even worth talking about here. But now we see in the off season what they're going to do. What are they going to pay, Brock Purdy? Is that get contentious? Right. That makes it really interesting. Or is he just, you know, gets a big contract right away. So, yeah, I, I'm a, I'm a pretty much. So yeah, I'm glad you brought them up.

They're kind of a good under the radar team to keep an eye on here. All right. Take one more break. We come back. We've each got one more, one more thing we're looking at here this offseason. All right. We are back on the Ringer NFL show. And you know what?

It is time for today's better together segment presented by State Farm. When it comes to football season, some things are just better together. And Deontay, I'm wondering, are they better together? or will they no longer be together? And that's Matthew Stafford and Sean McFay. This is my third one. I really think this might be the most trickiest decision, the trickiest decision facing any team this offseason.

I agree. When you look at what the rim should do. I mean, Matthew Stafford is only due $4 million in guaranteed money in 2025. He's entering his age 37 season. They had a top 10 offense last season. they came closer than any team in the playoffs to beating the Eagles. They're down 28, 22. They're at the Eagles 13-yard line in the snow.

And Jalen Carter takes over the game with back-to-back plays that get the Eagles, the ball back, and ice that game. I mean, no one played the Eagles that tough in the postseason, tougher than the loss. And Matthew Stafford was throwing no-look passes in the snow there. So I look at that and I say, run it back. Run it back with Matthew Stafford and Sean McVeigh, you still got Puka Nakua, you can make some moves in the draft. You drafted well in recent years and in a wide open NFC. Don't overthink this.

Don't create a hole where there doesn't need to be a hole. Now, there's another side of it where you could say Matthew Stafford's entering his age 37 season. And they know him better than anyone else, practice, injuries, all that stuff. And do they say it's better to get out maybe a year early than a year? or late and do they say, hey, we can maybe win with another quarterback? Are they a sneaky Sam Darnal team? You know? And what can you

get for Stafford? Yeah, this is very interesting. I was like, what would a team give up from Matthew Stafford? And I was looking at the Aaron Rogers trade. You know, the Packers got two seconds. And one of them could have turned into a first if Aaron Roger stayed healthy in his first season there with

the Jets. So is there a deal like that out there for a team like should I say the Jets? again. Would the Jets be? I don't know. Maybe not. Maybe they don't want to go down that road again. What about Mike Tomlin and the Pittsburgh Steelers? Would they say, this could be interesting? We could protect him. We've got a defense. You know, he's not going to have to be Superman here. Would Tom Brady and Pete Carroll get together and say, we don't want to do a big rebuild? Let's get him inside in this Vegas stadium and make some things happen here right away.

So I don't know. Those are just some things that came to mind. But they really really, face a tough decision on whether bringing back, let's take another shot at this in 2025, or let's not press our luck, let's get something while we can, and let's go in a different direction. Where do you fall on the Stafford decision? Because I think it's one of the biggest ones in the NFL this offseason. I think the trickiest thing is just, is the contract because it is, it was back-loaded in a way where if they were to just, let's say that they just wanted to release them, it would be $50 million in dead cap, I believe, in 2020. That's not on the table, right?

I know that they would not just walk away altogether, I don't think. But I do think because he's an aging quarterback with a high dead cap number and you're the Rams, if the decision is to trade him, I don't know if we get a resolution for this until we get to the back end of the off season. And you get to look at the teams that struck out on the quarterback market. And then maybe you say, hey, maybe you come to Matt Safford and say, hey, we're going to draft a guy in the first, in the top 50. to play quarterback. I'm not saying that that means that you're out, but we're preparing for life after Matt Stafford.

If that's something that you don't want to deal with, then let us know, and we will find a place to shop you to post-draft once we've got our guy, right? Because you're not going to, I don't think you're going to net back what Aaron Rogers net it back for Green Bay. I think that, I mean, they definitely, Green Bay definitely kind of got an advantage there of Aaron Rogers

making clear the team that he wanted to play for and New York knowing they were in need of. of a quarterback. They were able to kind of squeeze that extra second out. I don't know if that negotiation goes the same, if that was an open market in the same kind of way. I will say if you're Stafford, it becomes interesting because why wouldn't you just want to stick it out with L.A.? Why go someplace where you're probably not going to be as close to contending maybe outside of Pittsburgh, right? If Pittsburgh is a landing spot in your Stafford, that probably is the best landing spot you can think of where, hey, we might have a chance to make the playoffs. I know the defense is strong.

The offense, it kind of comes and goes, and Arthur Smith does not always the most prolific in terms of designing a passing game. But I think there's probably enough there where you feel like if I can just dial it up in December, in January, the way that people expect me to at this age, then maybe we can give ourselves a chance to win. I just think if you're L.A., what I keep coming back into, even though I'd like to see him finish his career with the Rams, I just think it's the smartest thing to do. If you're trading Cooper Cup, if you're looking for an opportunity to come. kind of cut bait with some of the older vets and really start fresh for Sean McVeigh. The smartest thing to do is to try to find a new home for Matt Stafford. Take whatever, you know, mid-round draft capital you can get back your fourth, your fifth round pick, a conditional, whatever the case may be.

And take a chance now on developing what the next era of Rams football is going to be like. Because for as close as they were to beating the Eagles, I don't know if you should walk away from that feeling like, hey, if we just trade Cooper Cup, get a little bit younger, and bring a few more, you know, maybe we'll get a little bit more aggressive in our downfield passing game by bringing in some younger bodies that can separate down the field that we're going to have an answer for the NFC's best team, the NFL's best team in Philadelphia. I think the right thing to do is to kind of continue this slow walk that they've been on to totally churning the roster and getting young everywhere.

It's so tough because you're right. Like if Matthew Stafford were just available right now and the Rams needed a quarterback, we'd probably be like, the Rams should go get Matthew Stafford. You know, go pair it with Sean McVeigh. You have a good pass rush. You have a number one receiver in Puka Nakua. So to that end up, like, I think I lean if I were the Rams. I don't think I'd be able to say, let's get ahead of this.

I think I would be like, let's take another shot. You know, let's go. Draft the guy, have somebody in the wings, and let's take another chance. Yeah. Let's maybe get another. Can we get a wide receiver who can contribute right away in the draft? Or can we get some offensive line help in the draft or a corner, whatever you want to do. I think it does depend on compensation. You know, you can, if you had that an honest

conversation with Stafford and maybe this, who knows, this might have happened even last year. I know there were some rumors last off season, like is Stafford definitely going to be back with the Rams in 2024? So if you get an offer that you say, this is good enough for us to try to get ahead of this a year early, then you do it. If you don't get that offer, then maybe you say, let's run it back with him. I don't know if that's, you know, realistic or not. Maybe that's the way they look at it. I would be fascinated with timeline here because just being on over the cap and kind of looking at some of the numbers, he would be, it would be a very smart move if they were moving on to either make the cutter trade as opposed to June 1st. So you're kind of eating less dead cap.

The only issue there, right, is that you only do that if you know you already have what you're doing next that quarterback in your pocket, right? Because you're going to be behind free agency and all that other stuff. So you're not going to be making a choice at the same time that you're releasing or trading Matt Stafford. So I think that the combine going into free agency, this will be a very fascinating time to hear what less need, what Sean McVeigh has to say about the future of the franchise. I'll definitely be tuned in to those guys. Obviously, Jordan Rodriguez, our old high league at the athletic who covers a team really well, I'm fascinated to see what they think about whether or not this one to two year timeline is as important or more important than four, five, six

years down the road. Yeah, you're right. They need a plan. You don't just trade them in. It's all right. We have no plan. We'll figure it out along the way. Yeah, they need to have that figure it out. Sean McVe is not going to go into next year. Like, oh, you know, just throw away 20-25. That's not it like you said about the Niners. That's not going to be in their nature either. So McVeigh and Stafford have been very good together. You know what else is better together? Bundling your home and auto insurance with the personal price plan from State Farm. The personal price plan lets you call the plays so you can choose the right coverage at a price that's right for you. Talk to a state farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan.

Like a good neighbor, state farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer, availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. All right, Deontay, close us out. What do you got? My last one, I think a little bit is in the same vein of just kind of how newsy we've been talking about the headlines. I think that now that the coaching carousel is kind of settled, and we've got Kellyn Moore to the Saints, and now all these openings have been closed. The question I'm most interested in is, which of these new hires will be closest to getting their team to the postseason in 2025? If he had to take a swing on a guy now, who's the one you trust the most, knowing the roster, you can project out whatever you expect to happen this offseason that you want. Who do you think is going to be best suited to get their team to the postseason in 2025?

So for me, that's Liam Cohen. For all my frustrations with Trevor Lawrence, you look at Brian Thomas Jr. You look at just some of the skill position talent that's there. You think about the way that he was able to design an easy passing game for Baker Mayfield to operate in. You can very easily see Liam Cohen getting to Jacksonville. They get a little bit more spread out in Jacksonville. I thought that last year it was a lot of do or die in a deep passing game. game that just did not work for Trevor Lawrence, didn't work for that offensive line.

That was before he got hurt. I would like to see him in a more spread out, ball out quick, play action game, a little bit more inventive and innovative in the running game. I can see that team getting closer to 500. And if they can get to 500 in the AFC South, he probably got a shot to make the postseason. So that's the team I'm very interested in. But obviously, you know, you think about Aaron Glenn, Ben Johnson in New York and Chicago, respectively. There are a lot of different ways

that this can go. It could even be Brian Schoenheimer because he might have the best quarterback at all the guys who were hired. So I'm kind of interested to hear where your heads at with who's maybe closest to get into the postseason next year. Yeah, like the Jaguar's choice, like you said, bad division. So it's not, you know,

the Texans, obviously, if won it back-to-back seasons, I'm not convinced that they're definitely going to be there next season. I think they'll be the favorites, but I think you have a chance in Jacksonville, although it feels like we've been saying that a lot, that you have a chance in Jacksonville and their process for hiring him with the ball. No kiddo.

Yeah, you know, the power they're giving him and the money they're giving him. I liked what Liam Cohen did last year. I don't know that I like him as much as they know, as desperate as they got to liking him. So I'm curious to see how that works. So my process here, Deonté was I ruled out two teams pretty quickly. And that was the Raiders with Pete Carroll, even though I like Pete Carroll. I'm interested to see what they do here, but they would be low on my list. and then the Saints in Kellynne Moore.

Now you can make the case that that's not a great division, so maybe they have a chance, and I guess that's the up that is valid, but I just wasn't going to predict that the Saints with the state of that roster. The rosters are just in such, they're just in bad spots right now. So that narrowed it down to five,

and I actually think you can make a case for the other five. You know, like you mentioned, bears with Ben Johnson, you could say defense has a chance to be good and does his offensive magic that we saw in Detroit. He was very good over an extended period of time. does that carry over to Chicago? So the Bears have a chance.

You made the case for the Jaguars. The Jets could be sneaky. I mean, their defense could be very good next year. I mean, the defense is still a strong unit. Yeah. So a strong unit. Obviously, we've all got a lot of trust in Aaron Glenn, watching him, you know, be able to generate good defenses,

explosive defenses, interesting defenses over the last two years. You'd think if he's able to kind of replicate that in New York, if they just get middling quarterback play, there's really nothing outside of Buffalo, you know, even if you lose those two games to Buffalo next year, you can easily be the second best team in the AFC East. And now you're kind of floating in that six to nine range in the AFC, and that gives you an opportunity to make the postseason.

Absolutely, yeah. So I think they have a chance at it. And then the Patriots, like second year quarterbacks, if you believe in the quarterback, that's usually the time where, you know, somebody makes a leap. Is that going to be Drake May next year? You know, they have a lot of resources to spend this off season to build around him. You have a new coach in Mike Vrable who built competitive teams.

I can't believe with who I'm going with Deontas team that I haven't mentioned yet. I think if I had to choose one, it's the Cowboys. You were setting me up. It's not because of the coach. But it's just I look at the team and the Dallas Cowboys, when Dak Prescott's been healthy, have been 76 and 46 in the regular season. 30 games over 500. So again, I didn't think Mike McCarthy was, you know,

Vince Lombardi. So I don't know. I don't know. It's going to be like some massive drop-off between Mike McCarthy and Brian Schottenheimer. That's not me thinking Brian Schottenheimer is going to be great. It's just like, can you be an average head coach? And you have Dak Prescott and you have C.D. Lamb and you have Michael Parsons and you have draft capital. So I don't think, you know, they're going to be amazing or compete for a Super Bowl.

But if we're saying, get to the postseason, I mean, they went 12 and 5 for three straight seasons before this year. So I can't. I wonder how much that's going to, my opinion of that's going to change between now and when we do our predictions in late August and September. But for now, how about them cowboys? There you go. I honestly don't hate it. I mean, you've got Matt Eberfluson on defense who is not like the most inventive defensive play caller. But you've got Michael Parsons.

When Trayvon Diggs and Durand are healthy, you've got a cornerback pair that's above average in the league. They would still need to address their defensive interior. They still have to address the linebacker spot. But you just talk about top in talent, and that's just on the defensive side. There's a lot to feel good about. And then, like you said, the quarterback's approved commodity. Even if you have hang-ups about what Dak Prescott is in high-leverage situations, I understand that because we just haven't seen this team get over the hump in the NFC during

the prime of his career. I can see them if Ryan Schoenheimer does nothing more but just run the offense that's already existed for Dallas. We know that DAC can operate that at a relatively high level, especially if you give him just enough of a running game to where he doesn't have to be the first, second, and third option for that offense. So I can see a world where if he's healthy, the way that they finished the season last year, you look up maybe they're a 10 and 17 instead of being a 12 and 5 team because they do just have depth issues to navigate with the rest of this roster.

I just trust the top end enough to where I think that that could be a team that's in the mix for the postseason, even if they're not contenders. And I don't think that we're going to find a contender out of this group in 2025. All these teams have significant roster issues. shoes one way or another. I'm just not mad at anybody who looks at Dallas and says, quarterback, edge rusher, decent enough offensive line. The ingredients are there and you've got continuity because the guy who you hired has already been in the building. I can see that being a smooth transition as opposed to a New York or Chicago or New England who all have coaches that we think can be good, maybe should be good, where they landed, but they've got a lot of

roster questions. Quarterback is still a little bit murky in each of those spots. So, I'm interested to see what Dallas looks like, like you said. I think this is a team that I'm going to look at the roster and feel good about it one day, and then I'm going to look at it the next week and say, there's no way this team is going to be able to stand up to a grueling 17 game season. But I'm not mad at anybody who relies on Dak Prescott and what they have on defense and thinks that that's enough to get over the hump. Yeah, they feel high floor.

Like if you had to play a game this weekend, they probably give you the highest floor out of N-Bes. of these teams. I mean, the Jets, we don't even know who's playing quarterback. So, and the other teams obviously have questions as well. But as we know, you know, from one season to the next, some of these teams are going to be in there who we're not expecting to be in there. There's going to be a surprise team. Next year, we'll spend a lot of time talking about that once we see what moves they make free agency trades in the draft. All right, that was your off-season primer. I feel like we hit on a bunch of stuff. It was fun to do. All these storylines

We're probably going to spend a lot of time in the weeks and months ahead, talking more about them as the chips start to fall around the NFL. Thank you to Deontay Lee. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing additional production supervision by Connor and Evans and Arjuna. Ramgapal. I'm Sheila Kapati. We'll talk to you next time on the Ringer NFL show. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino

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