The Ringer NFL Show - Offseason QB Matchmaker Game

Episode Date: February 16, 2023

Nora and Steven are ready for the offseason, and what better way to start it than by playing matchmaker for QBs on the move and teams that desperately need a QB? Although Aaron Rodgers is still on the Green Bay Packers, could he possibly end up in the Big Apple or reunite with Davante Adams in Sin City? Tom has officially retired and left Tampa; could his former teammate fill the void that he left? Plus, Chiefs OC Eric Bieniemy could be on the move, but should he just remain in Kansas City and wait for a better opportunity? Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Producer: Cliff Augustin Additional Production Supervision: Conor Nevins, Arjuna Ramgopal, and Stefan Anderson Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Pintziotti. First pod for me at least of the off season. Stephen Ries is here. Stephen, are you ready to talk about some quarterbacks? Yeah, let's do it. It's been like three days since the Super Bowl. I'm already ready.

Let's just turn the page. Let's start talking about next season. Next man up. Next pod up. No days off. All right. Well, we are going to do a little like off season sort of primer thing. And the quarterback movement is always the most important part of that.

So I think Stephen and I are going to play a little bit of QB matchmaker. We have, let's see, how many teams, seven teams, I think, eight teams that we're going to go through, that are quarterback needy. And we're going to say what we think that they should do. And let's start with the New York Jets. Stephen? Let's do it. What should the New York Jets do a quarterback this year? I think they should trade for Aaron Rogers.

So do I. Okay, we're on the same page already. When I look at this list of teams that is going to be in the market for quarterbacks, I think they're the one with the most potential, the highest ceiling, I would say. Just looking at the rosters and what they've accomplished, I would say Tampa Bay probably has the most recent track record of success, but I think they're declining and I think the Jets are going the other way. I think they're on the rise.

And if they just get a quarterback, what do they win, like seven, eight games last year? They weren't that far off from a wildcard spot. they were competitive with the bills in their two matchups with them. They were competitive with the rest of the division. So you add a quarterback who I think still has a lot in them. I know like Rogers didn't have the best season. But I thought I talked that more up to a declining supporting cast, a coaching staff that didn't quite figure out how to get that offense going until I would say around November.

But there were still flashes of Rogers playing really high level football and making amazing throws. now I don't know what this offseason holds for Aaron Rogers. He's apparently going off to the woods to go hang out in the dark and do and take potions or whatever. I don't know. He's left a witchcraft or something. But maybe, maybe some of that witchcraft will make an even better quarterback. I don't know.

It happened with Tom Brady. I won't elaborate on that, how that happened. But maybe he'll find some of that, you know, TB12 magic in the woods. I don't know if it's, it's TB12 magic unless Tom Brady's business. pursuits are a little bit more diversified than I think they are. But I went with Rogers for the Jets, too. I don't know if I think that they should do it. Or I guess I do think that they should do it. I just can't say that without some trepidation. I do think, look, I don't pin all of the Packers' offensive issues last season on Rogers exclusively. I do think that that arrow is pointing down.

I also just think that, like, he's a weird guy. I'm not totally sure if I trust how much he's dedicating himself over the course of the most recent couple of off seasons to be in a tip top readiness, tip top shape to start the new season just seems like a lot of podcasting. But that said, it's a funny list of quarterbacks who could be available this offseason in that there are a lot of names and a lot of names that people know, but there's no one really awesome. And the Jets were on the cusp of a playoff spot with Zach Wilson. and Joe Flacco and Mike White and where there's smoke with getting Hackett and setting themselves up in this way. I think there's fire.

I think they will go after Rogers. I think that if I were Rogers looking at the list of potential teams, I would emerge from my darkness retreat and go, okay, I'd rather go to the Jets. I don't think that Rogers, who is due like $60 million next year, I really don't think that he's going to retire. I just don't think that he's going to look at that number and go, yeah, that's okay. I know he said that he would be perfectly capable of doing that. I don't believe him. So I think Rogers will be in play.

It seems like the time in Green Bay, although we've said this before, is coming to an end. And if I were the Jets, I would pick Rogers out of the list of available guys. If I were Rogers, I would pick the Jets out of the list of available teams. So there we go.

I have like a team, a sleeper team that I think should pursue Rogers and it has enough money to do it because we're talking about the Jets. The Jets have minus 3 million in cap right now. So they have some work to do to get under the cap. They're going to have some work to do to fit him into their budget. Why aren't we talking about Rogers to Las Vegas? Ooh. They have the seventh, they have the seventh pick, so they have capital to trade. They have $46 million in cap space. They have Devonte Adams. I don't think either of those two guys would be opposed to getting that, that duo back together. I think Las Vegas is a team that should pursue Rogers. I don't think it's going to happen.

I think the New York Jets are going to be the team that ends up with him because of the hack of thing. Just because that's been the connection. And I think it's the easiest pitch to Rogers. But I don't know. A Las Vegas Rogers connection might be pretty good. And there's a desert out there. You can go out into the desert and wander around and get up to whatever he gets up to. But I feel like it's a nice little matchup between those two.

I do wonder what the Rogers, Josh McDaniel's relationship would be like. but I'm sure, like, both of those guys have been around for a long time. To my knowledge, don't really know each other, have pretty strong ideas of what they want to do. So there's a potential oil and water thing. I always associate those Patriots guys, McDaniels included, with, like, liking their guys. So, and Rogers is not that. I'm also not sure you want to go play in the AFC West if you're Rogers. Although, you know, you have to deal with.

with the bills and maybe the dolphins in the AFC East. And once you get into the playoffs, you're still dealing with all of those incredible quarterbacks. So it's not super far off there. I mean, it would be interesting. And obviously, the DeVante Adams piece would be huge. Rogers, I do think one of the things that clearly has declined for him is the mobility. He can still move around a little bit.

But I do think it's important for him to go somewhere with a decent, at least. ability to protect him. I would rather go to the Jets' offensive line situation than the Raiders, although it's not a huge difference, but I think I would be a little bit happier in New York. But Las Vegas is a good one. I will throw one out for you. I did not predict this, but I'm just a little bit curious.

The Panthers question mark? No, as a Panthers fan, I would be very excited if Aaron Rogers came there. I don't think this franchise is in a position to make a move like that. I think they've been trying to, I mean, obviously it hasn't been Rogers, but they've been playing the veteran quarterback game for the last, I would say, three years. And it hasn't really worked out. I think it's time.

It's finally time during David Tepper's ownership, which goes back to 2018 now. I think it's time to rebuild. It's time to start over. And they've been putting it off for four years. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think it happens. But if I am Rogers, I kind of want to stay in the NFC.

Right. Because like you said, you brought up the AFC West. I really don't think the AFC East and the AFC West makes a big difference. Because once you get to the playoffs, you still have to go through number 15. You still have to go through Patrick Mahomes either way. So if I'm Rogers in my main priority, and maybe this isn't his main priority, is winning a ring. I'm trying to stay in the NFC. the problem is you start looking at these teams and they don't really have much to offer.

I mean, Carolina, maybe outside of them, like Tampa Bay, minus 55 million in Capspace. That roster is going to look different. So whatever you think the roster is going to be right now, it's not going to be by September.

Washington, I mean, I would just want to avoid those vibes altogether. I don't know why because if you look at the roster, it's still a very good roster. I would also want to avoid the Tampa Bay vibes. I don't think they have the money for it. But, like, I don't know.

I just feel like if you're Rogers and you just watched Tom Brady look so flipping miserable there all season, you're going, I don't want to touch that with a 10-foot pole. No. And then the only other option in terms of NFC teams is really New Orleans. And then, I mean, everything I said about Tampa Bay applies to them except for the fact that I don't, I don't think they even have the money. Like, Mickey Loomis is already doing his Mickey Loomis bullshit. Like, they've already restructured Marcus May. They've already kicked that can down the road. So it appears that this is a team that is going all in once again for whatever reason,

because they haven't been close in like two or three years. But if I'm Rogers, that's another situation where I'm like, I'll let them figure that out on their own. I want to go to a team that I know has a low floor. And if I come in, I can really raise that ceiling a bunch. And unfortunately for him, it looks like it's going to have to be an AFC team to find that. Yeah. All right. Well, we started talking about ideas for the Panthers.

Let's go there next. I'm with you. I think it's time to build through the draft. They have the ninth overall pick. Certainly a team I think that could consider moving up. The goal there, I think, should be get a young quarterback, get someone with high upside, let Frank Reich try to develop him. My question is, do you think that they are in the running to, you know, maybe go after that number one overall pick that the Bears have? Or do you think that they would be more likely to just sort of see who ends up being available at 9 or maybe move up a little bit? What would you, resident Carolina Panthers fan, Stephen Reeves, what would you like to see them do there? Honestly, I hope they just stay put.

I don't think this is a draft where you want to trade up. I'm not trading up for a quarterback who's shorter than Ben Solac. I'm sorry. I'm not drafting Bryce Young. I'm not drafting him first overall. And then CJ Stroud, like, I don't know, I would really have to dive into the film of C.J. Stroud to feel comfortable picking him. Because outside of the Georgia game, which I admit, like the Georgia game, just based off that, if that was what the rest of his tape looked like, I would be willing to trade up and draft him first overall. But we didn't see that level of playmaking from him. He looked more like the typical Ohio State quarterback who just runs the system. It's a very good system. A lot of talent, a lot of talent on the outside of receiver. I don't know. I don't know if there's enough on film. to prove that he's one of those players that's going to elevate your roster. And that's what you're looking for when you draft a quarterback first overall.

For my money, and I haven't studied this at all, like I'm just getting into draft stuff. Anthony Richardson is the quarterback that I think has that potential. And if you're at nine and you got to read the tea leaves over the next couple of months to figure out if you can draft him at nine. But if you can, I stay put and I draft them. I don't want them making the same mistake they made two years ago when they passed on Justin Fields around a similar spot and he was available. But I think there's a way to get like the best of both worlds. Because I do think this roster is decent. And I think you have a really good coaching staff. And I think you have an owner that wants to win because he hasn't won yet. He hasn't gotten this

team to the playoffs. So I think you could draft Richardson and then maybe take like a mid level back, a mid level veteran who can be a bridge starter while Richardson learns to play. And I think like Andy Dalton would be a perfect fit. And I know Panthers fans aren't going to get excited about having Andy Dalton as QB1 in week one when the season starts. But in a Frank Reich system, I think he could really be a good quarterback. Last year, he was a really decent quarterback for the Saints. So if you can get him in the building and let's say that the defense plays as well as it did last year, and you get the running game going like you did last year, and Frank Reich improves the offense

in the passing game, I think Andy Dalton is good enough to win a bad, bad, or NFC sound. and you still have Richardson developing on the bench. And if Richardson is not the guy you think he is, like even like through a year, you could draft another quarterback next year. There's nothing stopping you from that. So I think that's the safest bet. But if you trade up and you draft young or Stroud, that's your guy of the future. You're committed to him no matter what because you've traded the draft capital.

You don't have another choice. And in this draft, I don't want to be pot committed to any of these quarterbacks. Even if you stay put at nine, which I agree with you definitely lessens the degree of pressure. to get him playing, get him playing quickly, not have missed on the pick, anoint the selection as your guy. History tells us that if you draft a quarterback in the top 10, that guy's probably going to play.

More likely than not he's going to play at some point the following year. The thing that's interesting, and I have not watched a lot of Richardson and these types of things change so dramatically between now and the draft. Right now, I think consensus is that if the Panthers stuck at nine, they would have a really, really, really good shot at drafting Anthony Richardson. And that would make a lot of sense.

And, you know, it's a high value pick, but it's also not going way out on a limb like trading up is. That could really change, right? That could stay the same. It could be considered a reach. By the time we get to the draft, who knows? this could not be quite so easy anymore. I think that's totally within the realm of possibility. The interesting thing to me,

the best case scenario is that because of his rushing ability, you could get him playing in year one. And if the defense stays as good as it is, and he can give you a reasonably solid floor as a player with how his athleticism can impact the rushing game. And Frank Reich is a good coach to scheme something up like, that. If he can do that, then you can try to develop him while he's playing, which is good for two reasons. One, because those snaps are really valuable. And two, because this team is secretly

pretty good. And there's a wide open path to, like, he would not have to be very good as a passer. For this team to win the division, for them to get into the playoffs. They have a good offensive line. I think that's the one thing where they are really good offensive line. Yeah, I think that's the thing that maybe the casual fan doesn't understand is that they have a really good young offensive line, two bookend tackles. If they get one more

piece on that offensive line, like it could be a top 10 line in the league. You talked about his rushing ability. You have DJ Moore on the outside, so you have a weapon he can work with. He's a force multiplier in the run game. You have the same coaching staff that got the most

out of Jaylen Hertz these last two years. I think you can cobble together a roster that gets like a Jalen Hertz type production out of him and a type of development out of him over the next two years. I'm not saying he's going to lead them to the Super Bowl and play as well as Jalen Hertz did and look like an MVP candidate, but you can get a viable offense out of him. And like you, like, that's, that's why I always advocate for drafting quarterbacks that can run because they have such a, they have a higher floor than, let's say like a quarterback like Matt Jones, who you have to put in the a system where you could be a dropback passing team to get the most out of them.

With Anthony Richardson, you could run the same offense. The Eagles were running in that first year and get like a top 10 offense out of it. I don't know. That's who I would draft. We need to start. We need to get a sound effect for when, when Mac Jones or Jimmy Groplo catches astray. Also, there are no casual.

There's a wider. There's no casual here, Stephen. Our listeners know ball. Everyone listening is a certified ball no. No, if you're still a Panthers fan and claiming it in public, you don't know. ball and you are you're like you don't know the you don't know life you can go pick another team just pick the pick the chiefs there's nothing stopping you from bandwagon the chiefs all right um so i had the same thing uh definitely think that the panthers look if rogers is an option

i don't hate it if they wanted to to sort of try to take a swing and sell him on wouldn't you rather be in the NFC, you've got a good defense, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It doesn't seem like it quite fits with what they're doing with getting Reich in the building. It seems like that was sort of a, okay, let's have a longer term strategy here. Let's try to get someone who can be with us for a decade kind of move. And I think that that's what they should do. I marked down Richardson, although it obviously depends sort of how the draft shapes up and how hotly the various prospects are going to be sought after once we get to April.

Let's stay in the division there. Tampa Bay was the hardest of all of these teams. I found Tampa Bay just like flummoxing. Can you help me out? Yeah. And I don't even know if this makes financial sense because they are like in the red by 55 million in terms of cash space. and they have the 19th pick. I went with Jimmy G.

Let's draft Jimmy G. I don't know. So the Bucks hired the Seahawks quarterback's coach. I'm assuming we're going to get that style of offense, the McVeigh-Shannahan style of offense, which we know Jimmy G can, I don't want to say, no, thrive. I'll say thriving. He's like second in EPA over the last five years behind Patrick M. Holmes in that offense.

Now it's not going to be Kyle Shanahan. It's Dave Canales or whatever his name is. So I don't know if it's going to work as well. Sorry, Dave. I didn't mean just dismiss your name. But I don't know. I think the bucks are going to talk themselves into being able to bounce back quickly and make the playoffs even with Tom Brady gone.

And what makes more sense than replacing Tom Brady with Jimmy G. That was the Belichick plan. I feel like it's good enough for the bucks. And I think it makes sense. It makes scheme sense. I think you're going to be able to get Jimmy G at a discount this off season. If you want to make the playoffs, there aren't a lot of quarterbacks beyond Aaron Rogers or Derek Carr, and I don't think

they have the money to get in a bidding war for Derek Carr. Jimmy G. is your best bet, especially if you're not at range to take one of these quarterbacks. So I don't know. If I'm the bucks, I just stay out of the quarterback market altogether. I try to be as bad as possible this year, and I try to draft one of those two unicorns that are coming next year, Drake May or Caleb Williams. Those are the two quarterbacks I want. So I would just stay out of this, but if they do have the ambition to make the playoffs, Jimmy G, I think makes the most sense. I like the other plan.

I like, let's, let's, okay, we start Kyle Trask, just tank baby tank. This is always what was going to happen, right? Like they won a Super Bowl with Tom Brady. They got everything that they wanted out of that situation. They made the playoffs. It's time to suck. I think it's time to be bad again. It's time to reset and it's time to be suck.

I get that the roster is still good, but I just, I think it's time to suck. I think the, the power of the, the Brady life cycle of going and getting him and what their cap situation is and the fact that it's still a good roster, but they're slowly losing some of those pieces. It's time to suck. I'm sorry. A Kyle Trask, Blaine Gabbardt cocktail at quarterback. That's, that's maximum suffage. That's a recipe for the first overall. Pick.

Let's go. You're getting the first overall pick. Yeah. That's a good move. The Garoppolo idea, I think, is a good one. It's just that if they don't, if they don't end up with one of those guys, like, if they can't be the winner in a Garoppolo situation and a car situation, I don't really think they're running for Rogers. No. It gets, it just gets bleak really fast.

It does. It gets really bleak. Like Jacobi Bressette? Sam Darnold, anybody? Baker Mayfield. But I also think we have to remember who Jason liked. I don't even know how to say his name. Jason liked who he was before Tom Brady.

Like he never rebuilt. The Bucks always seem to be players in free agency. They always used to be trying to make the big move. They traded for Dorel Revis. They brought in a bunch of free agents. Mike Evans, Sean Jackson, Vincent Jackson all the way back in like 25. 14, Josh McCown back when he was a hot free agent, that actually happened. But I don't know if he's going to be willing to rebuild.

He might make a move for Jimmy G. He's been a GM that's willing to put the cap in jeopardy to just make the playoffs, to just be a wildcard team. So I would not be surprised if this is a move they make. I don't think it's a move they should make, but I know Jason liked. And in his defense, right, like Godwin, Evans, it remains a very good roster. And it does seem like they're trying to evolve the offense a little bit. Now, who knows?

Who knows how well that works out? But it's not fair to say that it would be completely ridiculous to say, like, okay, let's try to run it back. There are a lot of good players under contract there. I think the defense is going to get worse because they're going to lose guys. And obviously, they're going to have to find a good amount of salary cap space somewhere. I think they can get it down from that $50 million. a little bit by making Brady post June 1.

They can save themselves. I mean, it just spreads it out. They're going to have to pay it next year. But I think they can shave even like $20 million off that way. So you start to get into some wiggle room, but you're right. That roster is getting squeezed. I just, I don't want to pretend that they're the Texans here, right? Like, there are good players on their roster.

Yeah. All right. Should we do the Saints next to close out the division? Yeah, what a division. And the Saints have minus 52 million in Capspace. And they have the 30th pick in the draft. Just great roster building, great team building. They really plan this thing out. I went with Derek Carr because the flirtation just seems too strong and too public for

it not to happen at this point. I don't know how it's going to work financially. I know how it's going to work out on the field. It's going to be disappointing. But it seems like they're dead set on keeping this, I don't know, this era of Saints football. I don't even know, has it ended yet? Like, where does the Sean Payton Drew Brie's era end?

And where does whatever this post-mortem. The Dennis Allen era? Yeah, I don't even know what to call this. It's the zombie Sean Payton era. That's what it is. I don't know what to call. Like, Payson Hill is still here for some reason. He just.

kind of just stuck behind and he still has a job. Derek Carr, sure. Throw him into the mix. I'm sure that will solve all their problems. So I did the same thing. They met with him during Super Bowl week. That was before Carr was released. He refused a trade there, but I don't think that had anything to do with New Orleans specifically.

I think that was just a move to make sure that he would get released. I agree with you. The flirtation is super strong and it seems too strong to ignore. The question is just like, how are they going to figure out? how to afford it, which, first of all, we're talking about the Saints. We're talking about Mickey Loomis always seems to find a way. They are, so they're 59 million over the 20203 cap right now, but they have 11 players who are said to count more than $10 million against the cap next year.

So, you know, Michael Thomas, James, Andrus Pete, there are options. I have a question. How is Derek Carr significantly better than a healthy James Winston? He's better. Right. Significantly. But like in a way that matters where it's going to matter for the team. I don't know if that's true.

I also feel like they already got like. I think it's not for a good team. I'm just not sure that the Saints are a good team. Right. Right. Yeah. I don't think it's like it's not a difference that's going to move the needle for the Saints, in my opinion.

And like the Saints, I don't know. I feel like this is like two people that went on a first date. It was a really good first date. And then at the end, the saints were like, I don't have any money. We're going to have to dine and dash. And they're like, are you good telling the Raiders that you refuse a trade? And like, can you like help us out here?

Because we don't have enough money to pay for you. And that's where they're at right now. So they already have, this is a toxic relationship. And they've already gotten their claws into Derek Carr. And he's already doing stuff. The saints are the nephew. you in White Lotus. Yes.

Yes. That's exactly. Hooked up to some funky stuff. They might not actually be the bad guy, but they're definitely not paying for dinner. And you've got a clear sense that something funny might be going on. Derek Carr, come on down. What does that make Derek Carr then if the Saints are the nephew?

I think that makes Derek Carr Porsche. Yes. The confused assistant. I think we solved it. Yeah, I just, at a certain point, you sort of have to stop analyzing the Saints normally, right? Like, they are always trying to compete. I agree with you in the real world, the difference between a healthy James and Derek Carr is maybe not that big of a deal. But I think if you think that the way, if you think the way that the Saints think about roster construction,

I think you probably do care about the difference between those two players. Yeah. they think they're Super Bowl contenders. They think they're like three moves away. So I very much expect them to like go all out to get cars. The all time irrational confidence team building. They're going to trade up in the first, they're going to trade up in the first round. And everyone's like, oh, it's for Richardson or Levison.

They're going to take like a defensive end out of like, out of like Oregon State. Like not even like a good one. Hysterical franchise. All right. I will, I'll take Jimmy Gropolo off the board with my next team. I think Jimmy G is most likely to end up with the Raiders. It's a little bit of, you know, it's similar to, you send them to Tampa Bay. There's a little bit of that Jason Light, former Patriots employee connection there.

Obviously has the connection with Josh McDaniels. I don't really know. Look, I think the situation with Carr with the Raiders, had just run its course. What are you doing to your team just moving from Derek Carter, Jimmy Garoppelow? Sure. But the main thing with Jimmy, unless you can find another perfect situation where he is in that Shanahan McVeigh offense, which, yes, the Bucks changed offensive coordinators, that's

great, cool, let's see what happens there. I don't know that that is a surefire piece of confirmation that that's the scheme that they're planning to run. Right. That's obviously not what they do in Vegas under McDaniels, but there is a little bit of, if Jimmy Garoppolo is going to be your quarterback, you have to get guys open quickly over the middle of the field. You must be able to do that.

other like it is non-negotiable now devante adams can run anything and you know the man loves an out route fine whatever but he can run anything and he can get open better than almost any other receiver in football not worried about that and then you've got hunter renfro you got darren waller i i think there are worse certainly much worse groups of of skill position players to be able to do that now McDaniels in terms of his ability to scheme guys open and scheme them open very quickly, I'm not sure. Haven't seen it in a while. But I think there are worse, there are certainly worse groups of skill position players

to be able to do that. The line, because of how quickly Garoppolo gets rid of the ball, I'm actually a little bit less worried about it. I just worry can the, you worry about if the receivers can get open, um, fast enough. But if they can do that, he will, he'll get the ball out. So I don't hate it as a schematic fit, even though it's obviously not clearly that, that Shanahan style. And then I do think that that the McDaniels is of the world, those guys who came from the Patriots, they just tend to like guys that they know.

They tend to like players that they've, coached before. So that I think is a, and obviously, look, I think a lot of these teams are sort of in a position where it's like go for, like if Rogers is not a possibility, for instance, the Jets, I think would go, okay, can we get Derek Carr? And if the answer to that is no, then they go, okay, can we get Jimmy Garoppel? The Raiders are the team that's not in that position, right? Because they're not going to have Derek Carr.

So I think once you get to that situation, obviously, I would expect them to take a peek at Rogers. If I were him, I would rather go to the Jets. And then I think that leaves you with Garoppolo. And I don't think that they're in just because of the, because first of all, they don't have draft capital because of the Adams trade. They want a veteran. They want someone that they think they can win games with. And I think that puts them pretty squarely in the conversation for Jimmy.

And even if like it's not a like for like match with the Shanahan system, but I feel like they get to the same spots. They, they just do it in different ways. Like when, when Jimmy was last on the Patriots like around, like 2016, 2017,

that era of the offense where McDaniels is there, they turned into like an under center, full back on the field, heavy play action type of offense. I was with Tom Brady. So I mean, that's the Shanahan. That's like the idea behind the Shanahan offense.

Totally. Like heavy bodies on the field, moving guys around. before the snap play action off of the run game. So, and he has experience in the system. So I do think it's a scheme fit. Like it might be a better scheme fit than Dave Canales. As you said, we've never seen him run to offense.

We don't know what it's going to look like. I do think that that makes sense. I'm picking Will Levis to them. I think they should stay put and I think they should draft a quarterback. And I say that because Mark Davis is not a, he's not an owner that's flush with money. And I think it's time to start saving. some money at the quarterback position because you're already paying Devante Adams. You've moved into this new stadium.

I think he stopped getting his haircut. Did you see that? He just went with the bald head? I think that's a sign. He was trying to save money on the hair. Yeah. Yeah. I forget.

There was like a story that came out in his last haircut, the bolt cut that he had was surprisingly expensive. I think this is the first sign of him starting to cut some cost. And the next move after shaving your head is drafting a Kentucky quarterback. and paying him like $5 million. The error of fiscal responsibility has arrived. Yeah, it starts with the hair or the lack thereof. He couldn't afford to have hair.

He's like, this hair is too expensive. So he doesn't have hair anymore. I think having a quarterback that you have to pay more than $6 million a year, that's a next cost-cutting measure. Like, what are you going to have to pay Jimmy? That's the question. $30 million, $25 million? Yeah.

I wouldn't want to do that. If I'm in a division with Patrick Mahomes, What you have to do, not only Patrick Mahomes, but Justin Herbert, what you have to do is find a quarterback that allows you to compete with those guys. I don't think it's Will Levis, but out of the quarterbacks in this class, I think Richardson and Levis are the ones that have that ceiling, that have that high ceiling. And it's the seventh pick. You draft him. The same thing I said about drafting Richardson at night. You draft him.

He stinks. Flip him for like a third or a day two pick like the Cardinals did with Josh Rosen and draft a quarterback the very next year. I think that's where the Raiders have to be. They have to get a great quarterback. They can't just get a good quarterback. In that division, a good quarterback is not good enough. Yeah. Look, there's, I just have a hard time seeing, I don't know.

And I guess it's like if you have the seventh pick, you should use it on a quarterback. For some reason, I really have a hard time seeing McDaniels being like, I'm going to bring someone along. Like, I'm going to, we're going to do this. We're going to take. for all that we did to go get Devante, we're going to use this roster on kind of a project at quarterback, but on the other hand, to your point, if your job is to compete with Mahomes,

to compete with Herbert. You're bringing Jimmy G? You got Jimmy G to a Mahomes fight? I don't know if Will Levis will ever be able to do that. I know Jimmy Garofalo will never be able to do that. So by that logic, I get it. Yeah. And I think Will Levis allows you, if Will Levis is a bust, if he is what his critics have said he is, which is what, like, basically what Josh Allen was supposed to be, guess what? You're drafted first or second overall next year anyway and you get to draft one of those quarterbacks I talked about earlier. Sure. And I think that's the prize. That's the light at the end of the tunnel for a lot of these teams that need quarterbacks.

I wonder what, because the main, the main con for Levis is turnover issues, right? Right. I wonder. But at the same time, you know, you're taking on a project in some way, shape, or form. So maybe it's not that big of a deal. And arm strength is great. I just, it's hard to know how much McDaniels has sort of evolved his thinking since he's left New England. That is the type of thing that you know that they would sort of hate.

Yeah. Do you have a sense of how big of a fan of Mack Jones, Josh McDaniels was? because I think that, like, if you're a big fan of Mac Jones, you don't like Will Levis. I think he was a fan. Oh, man. That's a bummer. I think he was a fan. Casual.

Doesn't know ball. All right. Speaking of not being able to keep up with the Chiefs, the Houston, Texans. I don't know why I chose that as my transition. But that's who's next on the list. Speaking of draft picks, they have the second and the 12. the second pick in the second round. So a lot of high draft capital.

Obviously, Davis Mills is on the roster. I want Jacoby Brissette plus something in the draft. Here, I do think you probably want some kind of non-Davis Mills bridge quarterback. Although, I don't know. I could be talked into Davis Mills being the bridge guy. But I think Brissette's a decent fit. I think he's a good, good character guy. If you're D'Amico, I think you're probably thinking pretty long term about sort of like, okay, if we're, if we're going to draft someone and try to bring him along, how are we making that transition?

And I think you definitely trust Rissette to be able to handle something like that. if it doesn't work out again you still have Davis Mills I think I would probably slightly prefer just because Brissette is better to say okay what if we try to could we get could we get any sort of draft pick in return for Davis Mills if somebody needs a backup he's shown some stuff and go that route the XFL start the XFL starting up this weekend maybe they can get a draft pick from from the Vegas wipers or something I don't know um But then the real, look, then the real, real conversation is, what are you doing in the draft? Are you taking CJ Stroud, for instance, second overall?

The answer to that is probably yes. Which, look, they wouldn't be moving up. They're not, they have the draft pick, right? They're not going super far out on the limb there. So I've got no problem with it. And if you have, you got to do it at some point, right? If you're using you got to take a big swing. Yeah.

And I think that's the position that they would be in. I do wonder if like the success the Eagles have had with Jalen Hertz, they drafted a quarterback after giving, it wasn't that long. I know like we look back at Carson Wentz's, the end of Carson Wentz in Philadelphia and think like, oh, it was a disaster. It was terrible. But, like, when they drafted Jalen Hertz, they were only, like, a year removed from giving Carson Wentz that extension.

And I wonder if teams look at that and look at how the Eagles kind of just threw a bunch of draft picks at their quarterback problem until it was fixed, and it seems to be fixed now. And that gives them the confidence to maybe draft C.J. Strout second overall while not necessarily being committed to him. Like, let's say he has a bad year. like he's just terrible in his rookie season and you're back drafting at the same spot. Your second or first and you have a chance to take

another top prospect, maybe one who has a higher ceiling than C.J. Stroud. If I'm the Texans and I'm in the spot where they're at where you're kind of in rebuild mode, but there's not like a clear direction you're going in, I would be fine with that. I would be fine with burning a second overall pick. As long as the result is,

I'm getting a guy with a higher upside next time, a guy that I believe can get us to where we need to be. Right. So if I'm them, I'm just going to stay put. I have this 12th pick already. I'll use that on another position, and I would use that second pick on Stroud. And if Young drops, then even better, because I think he's a better quarterback, and the only concern is the size. And at the second overall pick, you're like, I don't know, it's not your guy necessarily.

It's the guy that fell to you in second. So I think it's easier to move on from that position rather than drafting a guy first overall. I feel like you're making a declaration that this is the guy you want it over everyone else. You had any pick you wanted in the draft and this is the guy you want it. Second, I feel like there's, I don't know if the right term is plausible deniability, but like that's along the lines of what I'm talking about. You can move off of it and you can draft a guy the next year. And you could flip whoever that quarterback is for a decent draft pick, like a day two pick the next year.

I don't think it's that risky. Yeah, I think so too. look, it's Casario who's who's going to be making the decisions, obviously, but like, D'emico got a long, D'Mico has job security there.

You have, your regime in general isn't scared that they're going to get fired next year. Right. So. I mean, it's how they treat it their head coach position. They try to get a new head coach every year. So, like, why not the quarterback?

Yeah. I do like the Brissette signing, though. Like, I like the combination of drafting Stroud, second overall, and then bringing Brisset in anyway. Because the Brissette's a good quarterback. Like, Berset's a good quarterback if he just played a little faster. And I feel like that's the ideal backup. He'd be like, listen, C.J. Stroud, this is what you do.

Right. But just do it at two times the speed of me, and you'll be a good quarterback. Right. Yeah. All right. We've got the commanders and the Colts left. where you want to go? Let's go commanders. All right.

I went with, now I already talked about the bad vibes in Washington. It permeates throughout. Sam Howell question mark. That just adds to it. The uniforms, the name, the ownership,

the front office, the team, the stadium. Like everything about this team is just bad. So why not the quarterback? Bring him Baker Mayfield. Oh my God. Stephen.

Baker Mayfield. two irrationally confident entities, Baker Mayfield and Washington, I think both of those parties can delude themselves into thinking that this partnership not only will work out, but it will work out in this team winning the division. What is the, what is, what? Yeah. What is the merit of signing Baker Mayfield over just re-signing Taylor Heineke? There is none, but it's Baker Mayfield.

And I think NFL front offices for some reason seem to think like Baker Mayfield, they drafted him first overall. I would have asked that same question in 2018. Like, why are you drafting this guy first overall? He's like 6-2. He's got a fine arm. He has mobility, but not as much mobility as he thinks. Like, he's irrationally confident in his skill set.

And I feel like the NFL, like, believes in it. They're like, yeah, this guy is worthy of a first overall pick. I think Washington will trick themselves into, they're on the Colts timeline right now. They did the Carson Wentz thing. They're looking. I really think Ron Rivera. era thinks that they're a quarterback away. That's how he was talking throughout the season.

It was like, what's the problem? Why aren't you guys able to compete with the other teams in your division? He said quarterback. And I don't think this team has the best eye for quarterback talent as evidenced by them trading draft picks, draft capital for Carson Wentz, in an offseason where like the Colts, you remember that Combine Press Conference when the Colts, like Chris Ballard it was just basically like calling him a loser in public. Like a week later, two weeks later,

Washington traded draft picks for that. So I think they'll be willing to give up capital or cap space for Baker Mayfield and think that this is a guy that can bring them to the playoffs. So this is like a thoroughly commanders don't know ball suggestion. Commanders don't know ball. They're in their coltera. I don't think there's any chance this happens

and it's a horrible idea. Just re-sign He's like, like same boomer bust, chip on his shoulder, nonsense. Better player. They burned a bridge with Heineke by bending him for Carson Wentz. Yeah, I guess. But like, Baker Mayfield burns bridges with people when he gets up in the morning. Like, figure it out.

Perfect combination. Rivera's coming out here last week saying that it's more than likely going to be Sam Howell. Put your tail between your legs and go talk to Heineke and. pay them a little bit extra, like figure it out. I mean, all these quarterbacks were discussing, Sam Howe Heineke, they're all Baker-Mayfield variants. What's better than two Baker-Mayfields? Third, bring in a third.

Bring in the actual genuine article. I'm not sure that's true. Let them all play at the same time. They'll like combine like Voltron or something and become like the 20th best quarterback in the NFL. Well, actually one, if you put one on the other's shoulders, it might solve some of the height issues. That's a good point.

Get a trench coat. Absolutely. It's going to be hard to get someone on Baker Mayfield's shoulder because he has the chip on there, the big chip. You're going to need a cushion and then you're going to need the other Baker Mayfield to stack on top of the first. But no, I don't think this would work. I don't think it's going to happen, but I just wanted to pick it because it would even make sense. Because they have matching vibes. Yeah, that's right.

Look, I don't know that I have a better answer. I would probably try to like grovel and figure it out with Heineke before adding Baker Mayfield to the roster. But again, it does seem like the most likely answer here is Sam Howell. That seems bad. Yeah. Yeah, that's bad. I mean, somebody has to lose the game of musical chairs is all I'm saying.

Like there's going to be there's going to be one person. person left over and no chair. So Baker Mayfield, you know what it is? It's like you're like in class and you have to pair up and then you wait too long to get a partner and then you end up with, that's Washington and Baker Mayfield. They're both going to think they're better than the other person, but truly they deserve each other. It's either, my sense from going through these teams is that Washington and Tampa Bay are

my two candidates for, I just feel like you're going to be left standing when the music stops and something weird is going to happen. and it's going to be Kyle Trask or Baker Mayfield or Blank Gabbard. And that's probably going to feel bad in the moment. But honestly, that's the position I want to be when the dust settles on all this, unless I get Rogers. Like, that's the only way I'm happy. If I end up with Jimmy G.

Or if I end up with Derek Carr, I'm not super happy. I'm not super fired up. If I end up with a 5-9 first overall pick who weighs 180 pounds, I'm also not too happy. Like, it's either Aaron Rogers for me or Anthony Richardson. That's the only way I'm happy. Or Baker Mayfield, apparently. No, no, I wouldn't be happy. I would be happy if he goes to Washington just because it would be funny.

But if I was one of those parties, if I'm the Washington commanders and I have to start printing Baker Mayfield jerseys, no. So, okay. I'm sick to my stomach. Speaking of this situation, Eric B. Enemy had dinner with the commander's people last night. We're recording this on Thursday afternoon. And he's having an official interview for their offensive coordinator job. Maybe as we speak.

Unless he's just like, all right, one another Super Bowl. This is awesome. I am entering my check cashing era. What is? Why would he want this job? It boggles my mind. I don't. know. There's, there's no explaining it. This is the worst possible way to go. The problem, the concern with

him, at least the public concern, is that he's a product of coaching under Andy Reid and coaching Pat Mahomes. I think if you send a really, really, really, really good play caller to Washington, to this situation, your ceiling is still not very hard. Because of the roster, because of the quarterback. So there is a good chance, no matter what, even if you do a decent job, you're going to look kind of like a fraud because you went from this, the best offense in the NFL, coaching under Andy Reed, coaching Pat Mahomes, to this, whatever this is going to be, which is probably going to be a bottom 10 offense. And then I think at that point, you have zero chance of getting a head coaching job.

If you can't get a head coaching job with those results, like the league is not going to give him a chance coaching Washington, coaching Sam Howell. So if I'm Eric B. enemy, I run. I don't know why he's taking this interview. I don't know what it's about. I hope. Do not take this job. I hope so deeply it is because he knows they're going to offer him a lot of money and then he can take it back to Kansas City.

Or I think he thinks that Rivera is like on bar of time and he could get a head coaching job. Sure. But like I don't. But that's not a good situation either. Like what's stopping him from just waiting out Andy Reed? Like Andy Reid's not going to coach forever. He was already getting questions about whether he's coming back next year. Totally.

There were there were reports. Andy Reid himself said, I hope, Eric Bien to me, if he's still here, gets a chance to run the show. If I'm him, I'm just waiting out Reed to retire, and I'm trying to coach number 15, who is going to make me a lot of money and win me a lot of games.

Through one door, Patrick Mahomes and the defending Super Bowl champions, through another door, a completely dysfunctional organization who were sitting here talking about the merits of Sam Howell versus Baker Mayfield for

Don't do this No who knows what's going to have happened By the time this pod publishes But like for posterity This is our stance Don't do this Eric B. Enemy unless it is for just like an ungodly amount of money And you know that it's a bad idea

But are doing it on that basis fine I'm not here to stand in between anybody in their bag But woof Yeah don't do it, man. All right. Indianapolis. Last one. What you got, Stephen? I don't know what to do with this team. I really don't know what to do with this team. I think they should just do a bridge quarterback again and really reset, because that's one thing they haven't been able to do over the last couple years since Andrew Luck retired, really. They've gone for it. They've tried to win the AFC South every year. I think this is the

off season where maybe you take a step back, review how your roster is built, review how you built that roster, and now that you're constructing another one, because I do think, I do think firing Frank Reich was the end of an era. They were like, all right, we're starting over. We're not doing this again. So I think you're going to see some change with this team. So I don't know. I think signing one of these like low-level backups, like a Sam Darnold or something, or bringing in an Andy Dalton even and drafting a development. mental pick on the second day is fine. Because if you're going to end up with a quarterback, like one of the top quarterbacks, you're going to have to trade up. And I just don't think

Chris Ballard is the type of GM that's going to give up draft picks to draft from a quarterback pool that isn't the most impressive. Like it's the second year in a row that we're going to have questions, a lot of questions about every prospect in the draft. So I'm sitting out. I'm starting over. I'm getting a fresh restart, a real one. And I'm letting, if Chris, Ballard is going to be charged with rebuilding this team again, then I'm letting him do it from scratch because it's too hard to rebuild on the fly in the NFL, especially when you're already kind of behind because you've built this roster thinking like Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz, whoever they were, or Philip Rivers were going to be good enough to elevate it to the playoffs.

And clearly that the roster wasn't good enough, the quarterbacks weren't good enough, something needs to change. So I don't know, just sit out of the quarterback market, end up with who you end up with, draft a guy on day two, and then try to do it again next. year. No more shortcuts. That's what's gotten this team into trouble. No more shortcuts. So I hear you. I hear you. And Stuyken, I think, is going to be empowered to have a little bit of runway to reset that team. I do think that they've sort of acknowledged that the plan over the last few years to keep doing these sort of bridge veteran deals has not worked. And that it might be time for a team reset.

They have to figure out how one of the most expensive offensive lines in the sport took a total nosedive in their performance last season. And the roster as a whole isn't great. Like there's a lot of holes there. So I can see a reset being called for. That said, I went in a completely different direction because somebody, the Chicago Bears have the first overall pick and the Chicago Bears have a quarterback. So unless they trade for Justin Fields, someone's got to go up and get the first overall pick.

And I just would not be shocked if it were the Colts. Now, this is, we're a long way out. But Chris Ballard's got to be worried about his job. And while yes, I think they've acknowledged that what they've done the last few go-rounds at quarterback has not worked, you could take that piece of information go, okay, it's time to reset. Or you could take that piece of information go, okay, we got to stop getting these veteran-developed short-term old quarterbacks. let's get someone that Stuyken can take on a rookie contract and see if he can develop them. And I just wouldn't be shocked to see them go up to number one and go after a Bryce Young.

I have a suggestion. Maybe it's not possible because it would require trade within the division. but why not call up Tennessee and ask about Malik Willis? Because I think the person that was a fan of Malik Willis in that building is no longer employed by them. And I don't think Mike Vrable is a huge fan of him. Based on how they called plays when he got in there,

based on how quick the trigger was to take him out, based on the fact that they signed Josh Dobbs in a must-win game rather than playing him, I don't think they're committed to him at all. I love that. I don't think there's perfect overlap between like Jalen Hertz's game and Malik Willis, but I think there is a decent amount of overlap.

Like, Malik Willis is very good at throwing vertical routes. He is, if he starts, he might be the second or third best running quarterback in terms of design rushes behind Hertz and Lamar. And we know what Stuyken did with that team, with Jalen Hertz, how he took advantage of that skill set. I think you could get a similar offense out of Malik Willis if the offensive line, like, if you find a way to get that offensive line to bounce back to pre-2020, levels and you bring in Malik Willis and you find a stud receiver at the top of the draft

because you're not trading up for a quarterback necessarily, then I think you can make the offense work a little. And if it doesn't work out, you're back to drafting in the top five next year and then you could draft a quarterback. I feel like that's been like my solution to every quarterback's problem or every team's problem that needs a quarterback. But that's what I would do. I would wait to draft a quarterback until next year unless I'm already in position to get one in one falls to me. Like if I'm Carolina, if I'm Las Vegas, if I'm the Jets and someone drops to me and even if I traded for Rogers and I still have that 13th pick, then I would take one. But I'm not committing to any of these quarterbacks in the draft. So I don't know.

I think the Malik Willis trade is like their best bet in terms of finding a young guy. I love that. Just a bridge starter. I love that. Now, in the real world, somebody's going to go up and take that first pick. They're just, they're going to do it. Somebody's going to do it. And I definitely wouldn't rule the Colts out.

that conversation. But I don't, I don't think that offensive line is going to bounce back to pre-2020 levels. But I also think that really with any of these guys with, say it's Bryce Young, say it's Malik Willis, I don't think you need them to. I think you need them to when you have these statuesque old guys. Yeah. And you definitely needed them to with Matt Ryan, right?

but like somebody who has that type of running ability is going to help that that group look better. Now, again, that doesn't solve the problem of you paid all these guys and invested draft capital so that they would be elite. And it seems like all of a sudden that changed. But the fact that you did pay them, draft them in that way does kind of mean like they're pot committed there to a certain extent. and if they've got to make it work, I think a mobile quarterback will go a long way in terms of helping there. Yeah, I wonder.

I think you're absolutely right that the Vrable Titans don't seem particularly interested in making Malink Willis their future. The division thing for trades matters less than it has in the past. Quarterbacks are tough because if it hits,

then all of a sudden you've got a massive problem. You've got a massive long. long-term problem with somebody in the division. But I don't know. I mean, if they think he's bad. Right. If they think he's bad, then... If they think he's bad, there's no problem.

I wouldn't put it outside of the realm of possibility. I hadn't thought of that. That's a great idea, Stephen. Yeah, I just thought of it. Like five minutes ago. But it's a great idea, though. I have to say so myself. All right.

I don't know if we can, can we top that? I think we've just about covered it. No, it's the best I got. Fantastic. All right. Looking forward to taking credit for the Malik Willis to the Colts trade, which would leave us still wondering who would go up and snatch that number one overall pick from the Bears, which I do think we're going to see somebody do.

Somebody's going to get crazy. It'll probably somehow be the Saints. But I guess we'll have to be. It's going to be the Saints. And they're still going to draft. that defensive end from Oregon State when they do it. With the number one overall pick. I love it.

All right. This is Ben the Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Pinsiodi. He's Stephen Ruiz. Thank you to Cliff Augustine for production on this episode. And to Connor Nubbins and Arjuna Ramphal for additional production supervision.