The Ringer NFL Show - Parsing the Draft in the Inconsistent Modern NFL | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 262)

Episode Date: May 3, 2018

The Ringer's Robert Mays links up with Kevin Clark to discuss the philosophical direction of the league (03:00) and what Bill Belichick requires of prospects (14:25). Then they break down their takeaways from the Saints mortgaging their future (again) (22:00) and the Eagles tinkering with their offense (24:30) and discuss whether the New York Giants will have buyer's remorse with Saquon Barkley (30:00). Finally, Danny Kelly joins the show to analyze the hype surrounding several franchises around the league (41:00) and Matt Ryan's monster contract extension (55:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, Robert Mays here. On today's Ringer NFL show, we're chatting about some of the lessons that we learn, both league-wide and from specific teams during this year's draft. As always, we're brought to you by the Ringer podcast network, where there are a ton of great shows for you. We now have two versions of the Recapables coming into every week. On the latest The Recapables Westworld, David Shoemaker, welcome Alison Herman to chat about episode two and break down some of the most popular fan theories that are bouncing around the internet.

And, of course, the Recapables Billions remains in full swing. Also, if you didn't see the news from earlier this week, it's really happening. Bench Mode Harry Potter begins June 11th. And if you think you've heard Mallory Rubin get excited about something before, I guarantee you've seen nothing yet, I promise. Also, go to the ringer.com to check out a ton of awesome stuff from this week. Alison Herman had a delightful conversation with John Mullaney about his wonderful new Netflix special and his rare status as a king of stand-up, happy to rule the stage.

And earlier this week, Ben Lindberg wrote a beautiful piece about playing the new god of war not long after losing his father, which really resonated with me. Please go read both of those stories and much more at the ringer.com. All right. With that, let's get to the show. To the ringer NFL show, part of the ringer podcast network. I'm Robert Mays, joined as always by Kevin Clark. Our buddy, we're a few days removed from the end of the NFL draft.

And it's given us some time to kind of get some perspective on everything that happened. So we're going to talk about some lessons we learned. I got to tell you, Robert, we have five months. to think about the lessons we learned from the draft. It's a weird time in the NFL podcast world, but here we are. We're here for all of you. So we're going to do one more show about the draft. Again, just kind of the bird's eye, you know, a few miles high view of what happened

and what's, you know, not necessarily talking about who had a good draft, who had a bad draft, but just some things we can take away from it. Because in my opinion, it's always been hard to grade drafts as soon as they happen. I think it's a worthwhile pursuit for people who are super invested in the draft. but for people like us who don't spend all year watching these college players and evaluating them, I think it's more about what we can see from where teams want to go, where they want to pivot, where the league wants to go, where it wants to pivot, sometimes in ways it doesn't and neither do the teams. So that's what the value I see in this.

So with that in mind, let's start with the big picture lessons. You wrote about some of this earlier this week and you wrote something very insightful about the draft. And not only what it can tell us about teams, but about the philosophical direction of the league as a whole. And what was that big picture takeaway in your mind? There are two leagues. And they coexist. And sometimes they're in the same building.

The Cleveland Browns picked Baker Mayfield. That is, and you and I have talked to this off the pod, that's a modern football miracle in this sense. He is below the sort of six foot two threshold that teams have historically liked. He came from an air raid offense that five, six years ago would have been considered sacrilegious to pro-style offenses. He, you know, he didn't have this sort of Sam Darnold blank slate attitude that teams seem to like up high.

And yet he was not only the number one pick, but if you believe some of the Browns beat writers who checked in with other facilities around the NFL, he was the consensus number one pick, or at least the majority number one pick. And I think that shows you how much progress the league is made. Russell Wilson dropped to the third round. Drew Brees, you know, going back even further, dropped to the second round. We haven't seen a first overall pick like Baker Mayfield before.

And then you have stories like the one that came out of Cleveland. Before we get to the other places, let's just stay in that building. Where Alonzo Highsmith, who is extremely respected executive and scout, a guy who made his bones in the Packers, and obviously John Dorsey thought enough of them to bring him to Cleveland, I think he's obviously extremely talented, but he tells the Canton newspaper, basically they didn't draft Rosen

or he didn't like Rosen because he just didn't like something about him. He met the UCLA volleyball team at a airport gate. It's incredible. I didn't actually get the payoff of that story. I didn't really comprehend exactly the timeline of events there. It seems like there's something missing from that story, right? Like he goes and talks to the girlfriend and she says,

nah, he's kind of an asshole. Like, if without that piece, I'm not sure about this. Yeah, but I don't think that piece exists. No, me neither. That's what I'm saying. Clearly something's missing. I like the only way that story, there's a bow in that story is if she looked at Alonzo Highsmith and said, do not draft Josh Rosen, which didn't happen.

So the thing about Rosen that has fascinated me over the past like two weeks is that he went from this millennial who was overly curious, which we all considered a good thing, to now it's swung so far in a like just in a further direction. that it seems like he's a high school movie villain just tipping over lunch trays and like putting kids in lockers. But when did that come? Like where is that coming from at all? If someone came up to me at an airplane gate, I would not react rationally.

I have no idea what's happening right now. I don't want to do anything in an airplane gate except get on the plane. This is amazing. And it just doesn't make any sense to me. then it's all spilling out now that he's this terrible dude. He makes Jay Color look like a good guy if all this stuff is true. Okay, so I want to back up and say that I think Baker-Manfield's going to be better player than Josh Rosen. I also think Sam Donald is going to be a better player than Josh Rosen.

Josh Norris, who does a great job, was tweeting out some stuff about Albert Breer had this in his sort of notes column this week. And it was that the point was made, I'll read here for a second, the point was made and it's been made to me over and over. by coaches. This is Albert Breweriting. He's spoiled, entitled, and not made for pro football life. Okay, let's leave that aside for a second. I'm just curious about what pro football life is, but continue. Well, yeah, we'll get to that in a second. But Josh Norris's commentary on this, which I thought was right spot on, is that the more he looks at the draft process, the more he thinks it's about identifying the flaws than identifying what a player can do. 100%. And what I think is really interesting is,

is that Bill Belichick, we ever talk to the people who worked under Bill Belichick, he actually takes the approach of tell me what a guy can do, not what he can't do. And I've heard that from four or five people who've worked under Bill Belichick,

that he just wants to know, I mean, that's sort of a do-your-job mentality. What can he do? And then we find the role for him. Yeah. So you find out what a guy can do. I don't want to hear that Josh Rosen isn't ready for a football light,

for whatever the hell that is. If you have him in your building, figure out what he can do and let him do it. but I don't know what pro football life is. And these are the scouts. This is not on Brewer. These are the scouts and the coaches and Brewer is just a messenger here. The same thing happened in what Mike Sando wrote this week.

I know a lot of guys in the NFL who I would not consider ready for pro football life, who are successful pro football players. Yeah. And it just also you think about some of the GMs in the league. Would you ever consider Steve Kime like a new agey, you know, kind of like nice guy that's not like a football head? he's not Thomas Dimitrov. Like Steve Kyn was like one of the most footballish people

you could ever have a conversation with. And he's the one that traded up for Josh Rosen. Right. He's not like a feel good guy. It doesn't make any sense. I like Steve Kime. He's a feel good guy. Of course he is.

But he's not like, it's not as if Steve Kime doesn't come from a football world. Is what I'm saying. Sure. He very much comes from a football world. He's a former college offensive alignment who's a lifetime scout. He didn't come in a back door. He's not somebody that would kind of issue

football values. That's what I'm saying. I totally agree with you. Kime is as football guy as it gets. Yes. And he was okay with Josh Rosen. That's exactly what I'm saying. So I don't know. I mean, this whole industry has just gotten completely ridiculous. The whole draft industrial complex. Is there anything else you want to say about that? Just absurd. Oh, so we didn't actually get outside of the Cleveland Browns yet. Sure. Because number fire had an incredible number that I saw a fire number from number fire. They said that the average pass drop back results in seven yards per play in the NFL the last five years.

The average run is four yards. And you just extrapolate that over a game and over a season. It's incredible. And I think a lot of teams know that. Philadelphia Eagles know about that. That's why they sort of devalued the running back position in a lot of ways. I thought the new and the Patriots devalue their running back, but here we are. They took a first round running back.

So I guess the point I want to make about that is we thought we were somewhere with the running game. And there were five running backs taken in the first 40 picks. And so I just think that we are in a very weird shifting age where philosophies are clashing up against each other. And I think that we don't know as much about the modern game as we thought we did. And I think that's what we learned in this draft. I think that the sort of culture war, so to speak, between old school and new school is going to get heightened, especially, you know, this is the first year when player tracking data is going to be available and teams are going to be able to build models. I just want to explain if you don't know. I've written by this a lot, but the concept of analytics and football, it's been extremely limited until this summer because before this, teams were not given the sort of speeds, the, the, the,

the routes and all of the things that their opponents were doing. So you really couldn't build a model unless you were guessing. Or you were going off the very, very limited next-gen stats that are available on the NFL's website and only for skill position players now. You're basically, if you're a forward-thinking team with the Eagles or the Falcons or the Rams, you're going to be able to build models where you're going to say, hey, does speed matter for a tight end running an out route? that sort of thing. And you're going to be able to build coverages based on that.

How fast is this guy compared to the guy we played last week? We're going to build coverages on that. You're going to be able to, hey, should we start this lineback instead of this linebacker? People don't realize how new school things

they're going to get. And so I think generally this old school philosophy and the new school philosophy and all of the things that they encompass are going to start clashing more and more of the next five years.

And I think that this year is the start of something extremely important. The data, I 100% agree with. The running back value thing, I feel like it's totally is very interesting because you're right. In a vacuum, you know, it's easier and better to pass than just to run. But I also think that running backs aren't necessarily just runners anymore. And you also have to take into account the fact that in order to have the most efficient type of passing play available to you on your menu, you have to run the ball. Sure. Because it's all, it's on bought play action. So I think kind of

marrying those things is difficult. And we'll see. You know, maybe I value that too much. But what I've seen from teams like the Vikings and the Rams and the Falcons a couple years ago and what the 49ers did well at the end of their tenure and what the Titans, I assume, want to do this year. Play action is a huge part of what a lot of these successful NFL teams do offensively. And then when you think about New England, obviously, you know, they have, they have a ton of running backs because they want to throw the ball to their running backs. So it's just, it's tough.

That's why those lines do get blurred. I think that's why finding answers in this is not always, easy, even when we do have a set of data that says you should not run the ball as often anymore. Well, also, I just think that making any broad declarations about value and saying, oh, Bill Belichick would never take a running back in the first round or whatever it is. I mean, I think that's all fools Aaron because Bill Belichick understands distressed assets more than any person in the NFL. So if he says Sony Michelle is going to win me two games with his, with whatever skill he saw,

he's just going to take him in the first round. He doesn't care. I mean, one of the things we've seen over Bill Belichick's career the last five, ten years is if he thinks a guy is going to help him on special teams, he'll take him in the third round. He doesn't care. Lombardy talks about us all the time. Belichick has jobs to fill, and he fills them. He doesn't care about our or the modern game or analytics version of value. He cares about winning games.

It's very interesting that you say that because that plays very well into my big takeaway from this year's draft. And that is that, in my opinion, as we've talked about the evolution of offensive line value and analysis and everything over the past few years, this draft has started to mirror some of those conversations. And the Patriots are a great place to start. Isaiah Wynn, according to almost everybody that talked about the draft, was going to be a guard. He was six foot two in a little bit. He didn't have that long. His arms were longer for that sort of frame, but he was still a small tackle from college. He left tackle at Georgia and he was going to move.

inside. The Patriots, by all accounts, are just going to throw him at left tackle. They have a couple guards. You know, they just traded for Trent Brown. So if he doesn't play left, he's going to play right. So for the most part, they view Isaiah win as a tackle as a six foot, two and a half tackle. And that just doesn't happen very often anymore. But I think too often over the last five or six years, as teams have tried to find offensive linemen in a world where it's harder than ever to find them, they've fallen too easily into older modes of thinking and older draft tropes. And as we move outside of that, I think it's going to serve teams well. And the first thing that you can do with that is say,

Isaiah Wint is a fantastic pass protector. His awareness is wonderful. He's such a just smart, overall, complete pass protector. And it's really hard to find those. Who cares if he's not six, five? Let's put him at tackle and just figure the rest out later. It's more about an understanding of how to play the game, an ability to identify twists and blitzes and a marriage of angles

and understanding the mental game with the physical game and getting where you need to go in time not as fast as you can get there in the wrong way. And that's what Isaiah Wynn's going to give you. And I think that's what the Patriots saw. So that's one part of it. And then the other part of it is that think about how much closer guards and tackles have gotten in free agency

and the money being given to them. Yep. You know, we have a world where Andrew Norwell is getting upwards of $13. and have $14 million a year. And now look at how many interior linemen went high in this draft. You have a couple centers going in the first round. You have a guard going sixth overall.

The Colts pick two guards and the first 40 picks. And then just so many that went earlier than you would normally expect. And I think that that's a sign that teams are just saying, we need players at those positions. Those aren't marginalized anymore. And I think that's a smart way to think. And the other side of that is where are so many of these players coming from in those top 50 or so picks. You've two Notre Dame got linemen going the top. top 10, an Ohio

state linemen go in the first round, an Iowa lineman go not long after that in the top 50 picks. I just think so many teams are understanding what position you really need these guys to play, not putting them in boxes just based on their overall build to go play those positions.

And three, there are schools that produce these guys better than most just based on the way they play and the way they're taught. And it's easier to find players from those positions. And those are the guys that were drafted pretty high this year. So I just think all three of those things combined for the most well-thought-out best strategies

about offensive line value and drafting that we've seen in a couple years. Yeah. And it also goes to exactly what we were talking about earlier, which is that if you think you can win with Isaiah win in the first round, just take them. Who cares? There's a lot of ways you can win in the NFL. Salary cap management is one of them. I mean, having, I mean, look, at the rate free agencies going, having a guy like Isaiah

win cost control. is a value because of the way. That's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about. Free agency, yes. If you can bring him in as a 23rd overall pick and just say, all right, you're Nate Solter now and pay him.

What's Isaiah and when going to make in his first year? I mean, call him a million, maybe. I mean, considering a soldier's about to make 15, that works for you. Value is value in matter where you get it.

Yeah. Speaking, Packers drafted a punter and a long snapper. That seems more like a Patriots move. but it does a Packers move. The all-time best, the all-time best draft thing was when there was a really good long

snapper from Navy. Yeah. And like in October of the year before, everybody was like, yeah, it was a Belichick pick. And everyone joked about it, and then Belichick just,

and of course, he picked him. Yeah. Reached and picked him. I'm shocked that Laletta didn't end up in New England. I mean, it's the most surprising thing about this year's draft. I would have put money on it,

like instantly. Why Loletta? Because he's from Richmond and, like, He had that lacrosse background, didn't he? Yeah, probably. I mean, he just seemed like the Bill Belichick choice. Joe Cardona played lacrosse, too.

There you go. I mean, that's all you need to know. A fifth round long snapper. It's amazing. He's still there, though, isn't he? Of course he is. Yeah. Absolutely.

He's going to go to Patriots Hall of Fame. Tomorrow. Tomorrow, Belichick's going to waive the five-year rule. Like, Hockey Hall of Fame did for Wayne Gretzky. Coming up, we'll get to some of the lessons we learned about how a few teams. view their roster and long-term plans. And we'll also welcome Danny Kelly to chat about some of the hype teams that have emerged from this offseason. But first, it's the smartest move of the week brought to you by ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire.

Kevin, one of the other things just kind of trend-wise or approach-wise that we saw from this year's draft is a few teams that were content to say, we're already good at this. Let's get a little bit better. And it's hard to always justify that when you have needs and there are spots on your roster that really need. retooling, but at the same time, it can really help your growth as a franchise to say, let's just beef up this part of who we are and ride with it. And we saw that a few different ways this year. Obviously, adding Bradley Chubb to a defensive line with Vaughn Miller, a pass rush attack with Von Miller, is as good a positional stacking move as you can get.

Adding Calvin Ridley to the Falcons offense, which obviously has Julio Jones on one side of it. I mean, both of those moves are how you get good. It's also just good preparation. I mean, think about all of the injuries that'll happen. Think about all of the contingency plans you need. If you have two elite players to position, you're pretty much covered anywhere. Yeah, and you look at Connor Williams going to Dallas where they've spent a lot in resources on offensive linemen recently. When you're trying to build your crew of employees and you're trying to build your business, it's not a bad move to say, what are we already good at? Let's get even better.

I think that's one way you can cut through the market is to develop this very firm, understandable identity that people can latch on. two. And teams that do that often get rewarded for doing it. The Jaguars did the exact same thing by drafting Tavid and Brian in the first round. I think too many teams say, well, we're set at this spot. Let's not take the best player that we can because we don't need to get any better. And I think getting better where you're already good never really goes wrong. I mean, the Jaguars have done that in free agency too.

I mean, they added Malik Jackson and Clay's Campbell and back-to-back seasons. They just want defensive line depth because they understand that throwing resources at one position group works. The smartest move of the week was brought to you by ZipRecruiter. 80% of employers who post on ZipRecruiter, find a quality candidate through the site in just one day. Try it free today at ZipRecruiter.com slash ringer NFL. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash ringer NFL. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire.

All right, bud, we talked about some of the large scale lessons that we learned from the draft. But every year, in my opinion, draft weekend also provides a chance to glean some information for how individual teams are looking to change. in both the short and the long term. So when you looked at some of the moves that individual franchises made last weekend and tried to figure out what path they want to go on, who jumped out to you?

The New Orleans Saints. Okay. Because, and let me tell you why. We know what their path is now. We know what their path is. They traded up to get Marcus Davenport. They basically are openly admitting that they're mortgaging the future,

which they've done a couple of times in the Drew Brees era. But it's great. It's one of my favorite things. I love consistency. They clearly think they're a player away. They clearly think that. And the defense made huge strides last year. They know that Drew Breeze is at Drew Breese's age.

And with the fact that Drew Breeze, by the way, at one point, we thought it was a career-ending injury. And he's been the model of health since then. He's had some nice injury luck over the past, what, 12 years? He's 39 years old. And I think when you get into that time frame, you have to know it's time to maximize your roster. the chance at the Super Bowl.

So you trade up and you get Marcus Davenport, you mortgage your future a little bit. I mean, who knows how long Sean Payton wants to be in New Orleans. Who knows how long Drew Brees with his two-year, $50 million contract is going to have that window open. And so I was, you and I were both scratching our heads at the trade initially, and maybe we'll continue to scratch our heads. But the one thing you can't say is that the Saints have an identity crisis

because they know they are all in this year. I'm my first, I'm going to do two teams with my first one and cheat a little bit, but it's similar in terms of identity. And that's with the Eagles and the Steelers. And I think both of them know exactly who they are. The Eagles, it's just like Dallas Goddard's pre-draft comp. I remember Lance Erwin said this is Zach Ertz. Like the fact that they drafted him is hilarious. It's like, oh, we just need another one of those.

And it's really cool. I love that. I mean, you just drop him in onto that offense. Like, oh my God, now they have another tight end that they can use to just screw with formations and personnel and just, totally bewilder teams and how they should combat these guys. He's a perfect, eat player for that Eagles offense, just in terms of positional malleability and giving them the chance to do so many

different sorts of things while using the same players. And I love that. And the fact that the Eagles know who they are has been a huge strength for them. And the Steelers did the exact same thing. I mean, you could almost, it's like clockwork every three years now after they've kind of changed in the first round,

the Steelers are going to draft right now, like this version of the Steelers, the first round is, completely set aside for incredible athletes who will figure out later. And Edmonds, the safety, the, you know, Terell Edmins is exactly that. You know, he follows that Bud Dupree, T.J. Watt sort of mold. And then in the second round, it's wide receiver time again. I mean, every couple of years, they're going to draft one and he's going to be good.

And then when it becomes time to jettison one of them off because they feel like they can find another one, it's going to happen. It was just amazing that like there are some of these teams and New Orleans is the same way. where it's like, oh, yep, here we go again. It's the same thing every year. And there's some comfort in that and I enjoy it. Yeah, I totally agree. What do you think about Doug Peterson's new memoir, fearless?

Hey, I'm into it. Get that money while you can, Doug Peterson. Doug Peterson's emergence from sort of a middle of the road coach, I think we both probably thought was boring, maybe 18 months ago, maybe even more recently than that. He is now just like, I'm the big balls guy. it's amazing I love the fact that he's owning it good for him he's also he's also like he seems most excited when like david acres goes after the cowboys fans like how there was a shot where like hallie roseman and jeffreler like yeah this is I'm I'm tepidly supporting this and Peterson just loved it it's amazing how fast he's kind of embraced the philadelphianess of it all because again a year ago could there is there anybody less associated with Philadelphia or eagles fans than Doug peterson it just felt like he was kind of like an awshucks kind of dude

and now he's like married with the Eagles culture. He's a Philly guy. He's now Philly guy. Well, he, I mean, the fact that he was there for so long. No, I get it.

He was in Green Bay too. He's not a Green Bay guy. Yeah, but even that he was there in Philly guy for that many years, you'd still never associated him with like a Philly culture. I mean, he's just not a Philly type guy outwardly, but he's adopted it.

Yeah, exactly. He is become a Philly guy, which is really, hard to do. Yeah, and seamlessly. When you win a Super Bowl, I think it makes it easier. All right, who's your next team come? The New York Giants, because a lot of Giants fans have been coming at me. And they've been kind of getting after me for saying that the Barclay pick and the long term will be a bad pick. And obviously, I still believe, I mean, I said it earlier in this

podcast. I still believe that in five years, they're going to want that pick back. Maybe in two years they're going to want that pick back. If you look at some of the more recent top five picks as far as as running backs go. Oh, by the way, Robert, I don't know if. you got this, but I got it. I said that the Jaguars would want the Fournette pick back because Fournet leaving the lineup had no noticeable change on their offense. And people were like, well, you know, you could say that about Zeke Elliott because you obviously have Jalen Ramsey to swap in there.

Right. Of course you would. But they were like, well, there's no one there for the fourth pick for the Jaguars. A couple people said that to me. Have you of people ever heard of Deshaun Watson? I'll also like that's not how the draft works well no I mean I use the example a couple of days ago of if if the Cowboys had

drafted Jalen Ramsey instead of Zeke Elliott they'd be better off and then I just abstractly said the Jaguars would probably want their pickback and people are like well you're going to draft smart guy I don't know there's a bunch of guys that are pretty decent a bunch of guys who probably wouldn't have a zero some impact of over the course of the season.

I think Fournette's a good player, but I'm just saying the offense, the running game got better when he left, when he got hurt. I'm just saying. I'm not saying, I understand that point to some degree, but I was thinking,

Derek Barnett's pretty good. Like, I know he went 10 picks later, but that's not how it works. Also, Corey Davis is going to be pretty good. Yeah. Jags just drafted a wider sooner.

I really, I think the Jaguars brand trust is really good. I think the Jaguars are really, I don't mind the four net. Just to be clear, but I also think that's not the, I don't mind it, but I mean, I'm just saying we're talking about running backs getting drafted. I think that both Fournett and Elliott, both those teams would, would looking back on it, saying, well, we're going to go another direction.

If there was a redraft, that's all. Okay. But what I want to say about the Giants is, I think there's a case to be made. They could be a, with the identity they built in the draft, which obviously is the Dave Gettleman-Hog-Molly situation, you take Barclay to establish whatever run game there is to establish. with Eli Manning. You take Will Hernandez at 34, who was sort of a nailed on first round pick at one point. I just listened to the Movistics podcast.

They couldn't believe Hernandez was there. You get Carter, a linebacker, defensive tackle, B.J. Hill. I think there's a case to be made that the Giants could be better this year than people think. Do you think there's any case for that? Is a short-term, Barclay hit is a sensation as rookie year, and things look good. Is there any case to be made in your opinion?

you. Not really. Okay. Do you think there's too many holes? Do you think the Eli thing is, you think the Eli thing is too big to overcome? It probably starts with just a lack of Eli enthusiasm, but I also think that a lot of holes are made.

I mean, even if you get sold her and Hernandez, which is great. I think Barcl could be a really good rookie. I think it would be a great rookie. Listen, there's a chance that there's, it's a Sequin Mania and they take over. And that's really fun.

But you also, like, Eric Flowers still probably has a chance to start on this team because you don't have another tackle even though you sign Nate Solter. That can't really happen. Well, it kind of could, man. And that's the problem. So, first of all, even if you think Brett Jones is an upgrade over, you know, what they've had at center recently, I know he's dinged up a little bit last year, but he came back.

I mean, whatever. It's, I'm not going to get excited about Brett Jones. He's a savior for the giants because he has to be. And that their defense still worries me. I like James Betcher. I always have. I think he did a really good job in Arizona. And this idea that the Arizona defense is still going to be.

good just because of the whatever inertia is there from their last three or four seasons is silly to me. I mean, he's a really good defensive coordinator. I just don't like the talent they have on that side of the ball. I really don't. I just don't think there's that there's that much there outside of the established stars. Okay. So I'm, I still have my concerns about that team. I understand why I understand your point and how you could start making that argument, but I'm not ready to go that. I think the buyer's remorse on Barkley will start in two years. I think he has the chance to be. I mean, I think would you pick him right now for rookie of the year? Yes, 100%.

I have a rookie fantasy draft and I have the number one pick. I haven't even thought it. It was instant. I'm 100% going to pick him. I mean, there's not even a conversation. There's no one else that could even come close. It's a Dynasty League?

Yeah. Yeah, it's probably true. I'm going to enjoy the Sequin Barkley life for a couple of years here. But yeah, I think that there are still too many holes. And I also think... You have the first pick?

I do. Yeah. Hmm. I'm excited. I'm looking forward to it. But here's my other thing. And I've thought about this in relation to my team and some of the other teams on the come up,

hopefully that are going to be fighting to just get to the wildcard. The NFC is loaded still. That that second tier is really, really good. And I just, there are like four or five teams I would pick before the Giants. We're getting way ahead of ourselves. But when you think they're going to be better than people think, I mean,

I just don't know they're going to be a tire five. They're not going to be three and 13. No, I agree with that. It's probably three and 13 twice and early. I think they're going to win some games early. Barkley's going to be a good rookie. They're not going to be a tire fire. That's all.

Yeah. There's way down the list of NFC teams I would even start getting excited about. Even with Berkeley, I'm going to watch him every week. It's going to be appointment TV for me. But overall, I just think that the roster is not where it needs to be for them to even be slightly exciting outside of him. Who's your next draft philosophy you learned a lot from?

We talked about this a little bit right after the draft, but I'm just going to come back to it because it's the thing that's stuck with me the most. and that's the cults. And just kind of the added, like their revamp of their overall attitude and kind of how they built their roster. And this is year two for Ballard. And I think that he had,

he's made a conscious decision to try to rebuild what that team is at its core. And Nelson does that to go get that monster guard that they're going to put on the other side of Nelson in the second round, a lot of front seven players. They're really trying to change who they are. And I'm curious to see how it works. Matt I refloos is the first time defensive coordinator. but I really like him.

He was the linebacker's coach in Dallas, and I think that he did a fantastic job there. So the transition to a little bit of a different defense, you had to try to find some players to fit that transition. So it's kind of twofold. It's about fitting your personnel to scheme a little bit more than you had in previous drafts while also trying to get a different type of player into your building. And I think it's smart.

I mean, they got pushed around consistently for years. And it just seems to me like the days of them drafting a 510 wide receiver in the first round are so long. ago after this draft. It really is a departure from what those teams have tried to be. I mean, to trade down as much as he did, understand that it's more about an influx of a certain type of player than it is about one player at the top of the draft. I think that's a smart way to build your team right now. And I just came away thinking that they have a chance to be better. I mean,

obviously, it's completely tied to luck. But if you're going to build the rest of your team around him in a certain way, I like this way. Football outsiders. name John Kinsley did a deep ball analysis. I don't know if you saw it this week. I did not. He came up with the, watching every deep pass, pass over 16 yards

of last season came up with the best deep ball passer. And it was who, Robert. That's a great question. It was from last season. It was Jacob. It was Jacob. It was Jacoby percent. Wow. That's interesting.

And he had, he was tied for the NFL lead in, accurate incompletions on those passes. 65% accuracy, 36% completion percentage. That's very hard to do. That's very hard to do. That was number two, by the way. It just shows you just,

obviously, I don't think Jacoby Brissette is the new Brett Farf here, but I'm just saying that it just shows you how much of a failure the Colts offense has been, that you can have that big of a difference between those two things. I just, I think the Colts have a lot of holes. Do you think they could be any good this year? I think it's going to be tough because like just like you said. You need Andrew Luck at absolute full speed, which I just don't see for 16.

But here's the thing. And you mentioning that about the deep balls is interesting to me for this reason. You could look at the Colts roster and you could easily say, well, I mean, they just don't have any receivers. Why did they go get a receiver? They issued that in order to build their roster in other places. And I think that is a good decision. You could easily look at a stat like that and say, God, I can't believe they did nothing to upgrade the receiving core. but I don't mind that.

I think that's the last thing you need to do. Because for years, they've gone the other way, and it has not worked out for them. So I don't mind it at all. It's a conscious choice to go this way instead of the skill position player. Let's revamp it approach to things. And I don't mind it whatsoever. Yeah, totally agree. All right, that's all we got there.

We're going to bring on Danny Kelly now to break down some of the teams that we're getting excited about now that the dust is settled from the offseason. Danny, how you doing, bud? man I'm hanging in there it's a it's a post draft era now so it's kind of nice the weather's getting better we're going to see you next week I'm excited about it oh yeah it's gonna be awesome I know it's been a while but yeah so you uh Danny we're gonna kick this off with you because you wrote something this week that both frustrated me and made me very proud of you it was about how after the buck's draft and after this off season there's a lot of promise with their rebuild so you're not your first team here is the Tampa Bay Buccaneers that you're getting

excited about. Can you please lay this out from me before I tell you why you're wrong and then three months later agree with you. I want to preface this with the fact that I approach the Buccaneers thing completely dispassionately. Like I wouldn't say excited is the term I would use for this team. All right. What's the term, Danny? I will say logically speaking, I think they've done a good job of addressing the holes that they had. I want to give you guys some numbers on the Buccaneers defense last year. I don't know if it kind of flew under the radar how bad the defense was.

The bucks were dead last in DVOA, dead last in yards allowed per game, dead last in yards per play, dead last in sacks, dead last in pressure rate, dead last in tackles for a loss, and dead last in third downstop rate. So essentially all the most important defensive things.

You're just looking at the negative, damn. And that's not to speak of like the five or six other categories where they were in the bottom, five or whatever. So basically, you know, when you look at

how terrible they were in so many areas, you have to look at what they did dispassionately, which I tried to do because, again,

I'm not going to be like standing for the Buccaneers this year necessarily. I just think that... We have enough... My prior mistakes. Yeah, they have the chance to get

to be like average on defense, which I think could help them a lot, and I think that they could be a contender. So that's basically where I'm going with this. I like,

you know, that they added Vinnie Curry, the Jason Pierre Paul thing, I think, has the upside to help them as a past rushing team where they were terrible last year. I think the Vita Via pick is interesting because it puts him next to Gerald McCoy, and I think that's going to be a cool

interior. I think the Bo Allen, Mitch Unrion, you know, those are two quality defensive tackles. They're getting better again where they need it to be. And so, combined with, you know, taking two corners that could both play early on, you know, it just looks like a team to me that got better. It's just going to be real

interesting for me when you see the bucks get average on defense and they lose their games via bad Winston turnover There are so many ways the team could disappoint you Trust me, I'm the one who knows The Twitter reaction was hilarious by the way I would probably get excited about them in like three months But again, my hesitation about this

The VIA pick is problematic to me in so many ways I got excited about the Bucs and then Robert hit me with the VIA truth Yeah Here's my problem with the VIA pick more than anything else I think that the value just in a vacuum to pick that type of player with a 12th overall pick is not good. And then it gets even worse when you consider the specifics of this situation. Bo Allen and Mitch Unrion are the perfect cheap options to give you what Vita V is going to give you. They literally just did it on the cheap and free agency and then they spent the 12th overall pick on a similar skill.

That just drives me crazy. I definitely get it because in college he was sort of. more of a path of a run stopper than a pass rusher. But I think are they paying that that premium because they see him developing into like a top tier pass rusher that because I think that's his upside though. Who's ever done that? I mean, and maybe Helodinata has done that.

And like if you can say one guy, that's not enough guys. I don't know. We'll see. Yeah, I like to pick a lot, but I definitely kind of get the downside too. So to me,

he'll be one of the more interesting guys to watch. I really like him. But, you know, maybe that's some Washington. Homer isn't bleeding in there a little bit. Let me throw you this alternative. You have Washington homerism?

A little bit. I went there for a year. And you've been enough to become a homer? Well, more than other college teams will say that. Let me throw this out there for you, Danny. Let me give you an alternative, okay? Yeah. So to move down from the via pick,

or to from whatever they were to 12, seven to 12, they get two second round picks. So out of that second round picks. So out of that second round, they get two corners and Ronald Jones. Cool. I'm all for this. I love this. So instead of VIA, and let's let Bo Allen start and have UnRyne be a backup there,

how about we drop Derwin James onto this team instead of Chris Conti or Heath Tandy? Yes, please. So then the offseason is Jason Pierpaw, Vinnie Curry, Mitch Unrined, Bo Allen, two corners that could, you know, throw into the mix and hopefully start for you with Brank Grimes if we're already kicking Vernon Hargraves to the curb, which we might. be and then Derwin James on the back end. You're a little bit more excited about this now instead of the via pick, correct? I would, yeah, that would I would definitely be more excited.

That's right. This is crazy to me. I think a lot of people would be a lot more excited about it. It's kind of why I wanted to write about it because they, I feel like they flew under the radar a little bit. But if they would have hit Derwin and those other picks, then I think people would be stoked. They could have taken them.

It wouldn't have been this crazy thing. Drag him. Drag him, Robert. No, I mean, I definitely get it. I get it. I just, I think they could have given themselves such, I, I totally agree with your mind. of thinking, Danny, just to give yourself a shot on defense to really get better in a hurry.

And they spent, they had a ton of free agency money. You know, everyone talked about the Jets and the Browns and the 49ers even. And the Bucks were just kind of sitting there as a not train wreck team that had so much money to spend and they spent it. And then I really thought they could have just gotten better in every spot they needed to if they would have gotten Derwin to get off on the back end. And to not do that. Maybe it's good that they didn't get James because now you can avoid being

excited about him. No, I'll get there. Trust me, I'll get there. I'll convince myself that Alex Kappa, you know, that kid, that small school kid, they got in the third round, is going to take over for Smith at left tackle. I like Ryan Jensen, I'll be like, oh, yeah, this is the offensive line, I'll take it. And then I will somehow in August be like,

yeah, the bucks are going to win 11 games. It's inevitable. It's going to happen. I'm just going to convince myself and everyone else systematically for the next three months that it's not going to happen. All right, Kevin, who's your first team? Green Bay Packers. this is just a great segment for me continue

we talked about it a couple of weeks ago we said who can be this year's Saints and I said it could be the Packers because I just think that number one when you have Aaron Rogers are always a contender and my second team is in the same genre just a team with a good quarterback

who had some holes and you go cornerback on your first two on your first two picks you get Mike Petton in first of all I don't don't think anyone really understands, I mean, I guess Packer fans do. But when you look at the addition by subtraction as far as Dom Capers goes, I mean, they're going to instantly get better on defense. I think Mike Petton is a really good defensive coordinator. I think you bring in,

you're going to hit on at least one of those cornerbacks. Hopefully Kevin King is healthy this year. You know, I just think that they're going to be, it's like what, what Danny said about the bucks, if they get to average on defense, I think they can make some noise. Yeah. And there's a chance you get a Mo Wilkerson bounce back year. I mean, you're not obviously, but yeah. I mean, Robert, you picked one of the best teams in the NFL here for your crush team. It's not a crush team.

It's like, who are you hyped about after the off season? Yeah. I thought it was like under the rate. I thought it was like this year's, this year's movers. The Packers aren't under the radar. No, I wasn't, that's not what I meant here. Mine was which team are people just going to be really pumped about now with the draft and everything else is over? Go ahead.

And it's the Rams. Like, the Rams are the answer if we're doing it that way. Maybe I misunderstood the criteria. It's fine. But I mean, the Rams are, now that we're putting a button on the off season, I mean, there is one team that I'm not to say one off season, but in terms of the conversation, they're the ones we're going to be talking about here for the next few months. And that's the Rams. I mean, think about what they did. but Brandon Cooks was like one of their more under the radar moves.

They traded a first round pick to get him. It's absolutely absurd. The moves, the swings they made this offseason. I mean, the guys on the Rams now that weren't a couple months ago are Akeeb Taleb, Marcus Peters, and Daman Coupes.

Jesus. Just like saying that out loud is weird. It's, I mean, I totally think this could be a disaster. And we've seen this happen before. And when you put a bunch of guys in a room that didn't used to be there, when you had a great culture, those things are underrated in my mind in terms of player acquisition and how these influxes of new guys can kind of play with the dynamics of your room. I think that's real.

And I think that it could affect things in a negative way. I also think they could be so talented that none of it matters. I'm curious, what are they going to do by Aaron Donald? Are they going to give him a big extension before the year? I would. Because if they don't, that's me. It could be like a big deal. It could be a problem.

I mean, he was, he set out a game last year. Yeah, I know, right? So, yeah, like, he just got done holding out last year, and then you sign this guy, Sue, to 14, or whatever it is, like $10 plus a million dollar one-year deal, and he's still making his rookie deal. That's just the first thing I'm worried about, but overall they still are. that they made, even though like the quieter moves that they made were really good and really smart.

To bring Ben, to bring back John Sullivan on the cheap to keep, to have some stability at that offensive line in its center. Yeah. The fact that they got Roby back to play that nickel corner and they didn't have to pay him very much. Dominic easily did not play last year because he was hurt. And now he's just one more like explosive element in the middle of your defensive line. I mean, everything that they did is just in service of building the best roster possible. And they got my draft crush, John Kelly, the running back. Not that he's necessarily going to be a big part of their equation this year.

But, yeah, of course they had to go get the exciting rolling ball and knives running back. It's really fun. I mean, they're a very fun team. Again, it could totally flame out and just be an epic disaster. But it could also just be a monolith that runs through the NFL. I mean, I think they're going to, I don't have any, I don't have any problems with any of the personalities on that team. I think that's overstated. It's not about personalities.

That's not what I'm saying. I don't think there's going to be like problem children necessarily. I just think it's about locker room dynamics and valuing guys outside of your building versus guys inside and, you know, jettisoning players that you recently extended. I don't necessarily think any of those guys are going to come in and like start pitching fits in the locker room. That's not what I mean. It's just more about kind of guys looking over their shoulder in a way they wouldn't have before. Sure.

And, you know, Bill Belichick, not to just do the Belichick lessons podcast, but I mean, one of the things he's more aware of than any other coach in the NFL is, guys who are upset about their contract situation and guys who are, you know, bringing in a guy, that's why he jettisoned guys a year early a lot of times is because he knows that contract problems can bring down a team. So if guys think, why do you reward this guy, not this guy? That's when locker room problems do start. Yeah.

And then that thing, that's what Danny's talking about with Aaron Donald. Yeah. That's what I'm getting at. Yeah. Yeah. And Alic Ogletree was a captain of that team. And to trade him dispassioned. I thought you meant the captain of the team that's,

upset about their contract. No, no, he was not the of that team. I was going to say, he got a pretty big deal. He's L. He's not the captain of the all overpaid team, actually. Yeah, I mean, and I just think that those are the

things that can creep in a little bit. I mean, it's just about valuing guys outside versus valuing guys inside. And again, I think that can be a problem. So, all right, Kevin, who's your second team? Carolina Panthers. What about them?

Just like that you love DJ Moore. I love DJ Moore. Yeah. I think DJ. I think DJ Moore can have, big vert, big vert. I think he can have, if he is who I think he is and who the hell knows, and if he is who I guess Marty Herney believes he is, I think he can have transformative powers over Cam Newton

and get him back to where he was a couple of years ago. You know, it's funny, I was looking at the deep ball thing that named Jacoby Brissette, the top deep passer in the NFL, and Brissette is tied for, accurate incompletions with Cam Newton. There were 19 of them last year. And I think that says it all. Cam Newton can throw the ball down the field.

He needs the guys who can do it. You have Greg Olson back. Greg Olson did not go to Monday of football. That was Jason Witten. Olson got a deal. And then they also, by the way, did sort of reversal with the Packers did. They got cornerbacks in the second and third rounds. They got rid of Worley. If one of those guys hits, I think people really like Dante Jackson. They brought in a new tight end and Ian Thomas. I just think that the Panthers are going to be closer to what they were a couple of years ago than they were last year.

I'm not saying they're going back to the Super Bowl or anything, but I'm just saying I don't think you can keep Cam Newton down for that long. It's not a stretch to say that DJ Moore is unlike any player that Panthers have acquired in the Cam Newton era. Because they picked a wider receiver in the first round, obviously, when they got Benjamin. But Benjamin is such a specific type of player. He's just a tight end. He's a tight end you're putting out there. It's a physicality thing. And I mean, think about the market that exists for Des Bryant right now.

Those players just don't have the value that they used to because if you're going to get that guy, why don't you go get a six foot four, 260 pound tight end that can also block. It's the same thing at this point. So getting a guy like Moore, they haven't had anybody like that. Even Curtis Samuel was, you know, more of a slot guy that is kind of a movable piece. You can play him in the backfield. I mean, more is just a different type of receiver than they've ever. gone out and spent big researches to acquire. It's essentially

mentioned Samuel. So Samuel presumably will be healthy this year. And the other part of it is they know Christian McCaffrey is. Christian McCaffrey can't pass block. We're aware of this. I think I saw somewhere on Pro Football Focus. Did he have the worst pass blocking grade in the history of running backs or something? Oh, man.

Something like that. Something like that. Okay, well, you know what Christian McCaffrey is. You know what to rely on him for. He's a really good dynamic slot receiver when you get the ball in his hands. You can do things out of the backfield. don't have him in on third down. I mean, I think there are complaints about, okay, you know that he's, they're running the ball

if he's in the backfield or whatever, but you can design an offense where he's not a pass-blocking liability. And that's something I think we know having a full off season of that will be valuable as far as that goes. The Panthers last two drafts, I think you can just, if you look at it from, you know, what they're trying to do point of view,

they're trying to get Cam Newton's, you know, completion rate over 60%. saying because if he yes you know Christian McCaffrey obviously he's he's a very good in like intermediate receiver I agree with you but if you're going to be trying to do that North Turner is not the guy you want

so it's kind of competing philosophies here well Robert we're gonna get a complete percentage up I totally agree with you but then you bring in a guy who's like entire career has been built on pushing the ball vertically outside the numbers which is hilarious to me my my North Turner impression

is now just Phil Hartman's Bill Clinton. Yeah, that's exactly right. It's what it's more fit to. Danny, I 100% agree with you, though. And in terms of the personnel choices, you're absolutely right. Think about how static their skill position group was a couple years ago when you had

Benjamin on one side, Funch us on the other. It made just the same type of players. And now they've gone the exact opposite route. And they've consciously made a decision to pivot. When I wrote about my draft lessons last year, they were the first team to mention because it was such a stark contrast to the team they had built previously.

So I think you're totally right. I mean, just trying to build some flexibility and just having a dynamic element to their skill position group. And that's what they have now. Hopefully. I mean, you hope that more develops into that guy. But obviously, this is about the ideal picture of this group. Yeah. All right.

We're going to get to my team and to Danny's team. But before we do that, a little breaking news, Chris Mortensen, Matt Ryan, five-year extension with the Falcons that makes him the first $30 million year quarterback with $100 million guaranteed per lead in team sources. it's a lot of money that's a lot of money man I'm just making sure that's real it looks real yeah there's a blue check and everything Breer is also reporting it

wow what was the previous high what was Garapolos per year thing 20s he was he was so front loaded it was hard to yeah yeah Gropolo's annual value

is somewhere around like 2728 I believe but he only had 74 million guaranteed isn't that right Jesus, this takes a jump. I mean, it's a huge jump, but it's the type of jump that we expected. I mean, with Garoppolo or with Rogers and Ryan looming, I think this was always going to be a thing, you know? So, yeah, Garapolo had $74 million guaranteed, which I had right. And then his annual value is 27.5.

So this is a jump. I mean, but that's what you expected. I mean, if Garoppolo is going to get that on 14 starts, what the hell is a MVP quarterback worth that hits? the open market. I mean, it's going to be a lot more. Absolutely. Everyone should try to be a quarterback. Yeah, God, what's Rogers going to get? That's the next thing.

Also, Rogers is angry at his team, apparently. So, like, he's going to get everything he's worth. It would be incredible if he went somewhere else for like a monster deal. Oh, man. They can just franchise. They can just franchise tag him. That's right. That's true.

They just franchise tag him into oblivion. Yeah, it's true. for like six straight years. The reason Drew Breez got that money was because he had in his deal. They couldn't franchise tag him. Yeah. I mean, and it's Rogers,

of course, does not have that, which again, just one more thing. He's probably angry about. All right, let's get to our last two teams before we get out of here. Because we got to leave.

Jim is yelling at me. So the first guy, the team I want to talk about just very quickly, speaking of Garopolo is just the Niners. I mean, I think they were the team that a lot of people were excited about coming into this offseason. I know I was.

I felt like they held a lot of the cards. And then the choices they made in the draft don't necessarily make me less excited about them. Their defense had some holes, but it still feels like the choices they made on offense, along with getting Garoppel. And then going to get McGlinchy in the top 10, getting Dante Pettis to add to that, you know, skill position group, it's hard not to be excited about what they're going to do on that side of the ball. And I just feel like what we saw at the end of last season is worth getting excited about and nothing that's happened with that offense since has dampened that excitement for me.

They have a really underrated, I think they have an underrated pass catching group. I really like Garsohn. I've been a big Garsohn fan for a while. I don't know if he's not like a number one or whatever, but he's just a tough, physical, intense guy. And I really like watching him play. I think Marquis Goodwin kind of broke out a little bit last year as a guy who's more than just a speed threat. And then obviously they've got a couple other guys. I think Pettis is going to be good.

Like, he'll play right away. I don't know. And especially in that Shanahan, you know, scheme where he just schemes guys open all the time. Exactly. Like, they're so exciting. I do think the offense is very exciting. Obviously, the question marks on defense, like, it's Sherman going to come back and be the guy again or whatever. But I do think that they're another exciting team.

All right, Danny. We're going to get to your last team, even though I'm doing so reluctantly. Who is your second team here? Well, I have to kind of hype for you because I know that. like whatever your superstition or whatever won't allow you to hype the bears. But man, I think the bears have to be one of the most exciting teams coming into this season, right? You know, new coaching staff, new coordinator. I feel like Trubisky is tailor made for this, you know, West Coast hybrid that Andy Reid offense or whatever.

And I think, you know, the things they've done on offense and adding Alan Robinson, you know, Taylor Gabriel, Trey Burton. It's just exciting to me. And then getting James Daniels, Anthony Miller in the draft, it's just going to make that offense better. And Robloon Smith. I know. And the defense, too, I think is exciting. I've always been a Vic Fangio fan back since when he was the coordinator for the 49ers back in the day.

And I just think they've got some weapons on that defense. I'm a little bit worried about their pass rush. I think that's probably one thing I'm worried about. 100%. They've got some guys. The one area of that team that I have significant concerns about is the pass rush after all this is settled. I feel like the secondary is solid. They were solid last year.

I mean, it's a group of players that can just play. Bryce Callahan's a solid is a decent slot corner. I like the amooka more fuller pairing. The safeties are good, just like playing good. And then to pair Trevathan with Rokon Smith now, the interior of defensive line with Goldman and Hicks is just a really decent.

Like, ah, God, I'm, I shouldn't do this. I'm doing on. What's going on all of you, maize? I shouldn't do this. It's,

here's my thing. The way that I feel about the bears is, you know, how you can badmouth your own relatives, but no one else can't. That's when you like, like absolutely not. I'm allowed to be excited about the bears, but no one else can be. Because that just at least in that situation, I'm controlling just the juju and the universe. So when you're doing that, Danny, I'm just not comfortable with it. Yeah, I totally get that. I don't know. I'll keep it together. But to me, I'm like, just from a curiosity standpoint, like, I'm really. really excited to watch how this kind of plays out. I think that their offense is going to be fun and they've got some cool weapons and whatever. The NFC is really, really hard and Trubisky's only in a second year.

So it could go terribly, but I still am really just, it's going to be fun to watch. I totally agree. And what's, I mean, you didn't even mention Trey Cohen's name. I mean, what can Nagee do with a guy like that? Yeah. And yeah, I think the past rush, if it, let's say everything breaks right. Like, every move they made turns out to be a good one. And every player that they draft or signed reaches whatever potential.

This is the perfect situation. Even in that scenario, I still think that Pass Rush has issues. And, you know, if the fact that we're nitpicking about what their issues are, if things break a certain way, this is new territory for me and my team. So I'm going to take it. All right, guys. I think that's all we got. As always, thank all of you for joining us.

We'll be back next week for more offseason talk. Again, we'll be in L.A. Daniel will be there, a bunch of other people for some. wonderful face-to-face time. But until then, thank you for listening to the Ring your NFL show on the Radio Podcast Network.