The Ringer NFL Show - Part 1: Troy Aikman on ’90s vs. Current NFL Culture, Load Management, Broadcasting vs. Playing, and Jimmy Johnson’s Influence | Flying Coach With Sean McVay and Peter Schrager

Episode Date: June 23, 2021

Sean and Peter are joined by HOF quarterback and Fox sportscaster Troy Aikman to chat about the QB club and the difference between NFL culture in the ’90s and now, including Tom Brady’s recent support of teams getting more days off. Later, they talk about Troy’s experience preparing for games as a broadcaster, interviewing coaches, his struggles in the beginning of his career, the influence coach Jimmy Johnson had on him, and more (2:17). Finally, we finish the show with listener emails and voicemails (53:43). Follow 'Flying Coach' here on Spotify! Email Sean McVay and Peter Schrager your questions at [e-mail]. Or leave us a voicemail and it may be featured in our next episode! [phone]‬ Hosts: Sean McVay and Peter Schrager Guest: Arthur Smith Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, I'm Shea Serrano. And I'm Brandon Jinks Jenkins. We have a new show called No Skips with Jinks and Shea. In it, we discuss the most unskippable albums in hip-hop history. New episodes drop on Thursdays, only on Spotify. Welcome to the Flying Coach podcast season two. This is episode six, but Sean McVeigh, my co-host, this episode was so good, so in-depth, that we decided we're going to do two parts to it.

Can he give a little preview on who we've got and just how awesome the last two hours of our lives were? Yeah, I mean, Troy Aikman, this guy is a stud in every sense of the word. You talk about the range and the different perspectives that you can appreciate from his experiences as a player, as a broadcaster. And, you know, he's one of those guys, kind of similar to Tom Brady, right? Like, you look at him from afar and you're thinking, man, this guy's like perfect. You want to hate him. And then you talk to him and you say, I love him too, man. He is, he's, he was great.

And I think what says as much, all you need to know is we were playing on one episode and it was so good that it's going to be extended out over the next two. And it'll definitely give us a bunch of different things that I think people will be interested to hear about. Yeah. And I think that's the key here. Troy is so open, so vulnerable, so honest in these conversations. But I would also add that he's got a special relationship to both of us. He's been great to me and my career. And knowing Sean now for five years, they have a certain level of connection, I guess, just through their interactions on football. So here's how it's going to work. The first part of it, we're going to talk about Troy's life as a player, kind of how his perspective was, and also as his interactions with

his coaches, Jimmy Johnson, Barry Switzer, and North Turner and others. Then the second becomes almost a sports media conversation, as he has been the lead analyst for Fox for over 20 years, and we get into it. We think you guys are really going to like this. Troy Ackman's in the media, but I don't think he does a lot of media opportunities. He lays it all out there for us here, and we couldn't be more appreciative. Troy Aikman, Part 1 and Part 2. Buckle up. Here's part one.

I'm joined, of course, by Sean McVeigh head coach of the L.A. Ram. Sean, who do we have on as our esteemed guest for episode 6? Well, it's, you know, I never thought that I'd be so fired up to have a former Dallas Cowboy quarterback three-time Super Bowl champ, Hall of Famer, Troy Aikman. And Troy, I don't even know if Troy knows how much stress he caused at the McVeigh household when I was a lot younger when my grandpa was the GM. But it is great to have you with us today, Troy. It's good to be on with you two guys. You know, you guys are making waves in the podcast industry.

A lot of talk about this flying coach. Although I hear, I hear, Sean, I don't know what your status is going forward if you're under a long-term contract. But I hear if not, the show's going to be rebranded for next year. it's going to be called flying first class with Cliff Kingsbury. I think it's where there's things going. Oh, my gosh. It's not going to be flying coach anymore. We're on.

Let's go, Sean. Oh, my God. Hey, Cliff tried to start out with a bang, but he doesn't have shit on that start right there, my goodness. Here we go. Troy, it's a good segue. I love this. So, Sean and we have Cliff on, and they're busting chops the entire time.

And I wasn't sure because they're divisional rivals. I don't know how this thing gets. Who were the quarterbacks when you were a quarterback that you actually enjoyed their company, loved Bustin Chops, and although you were rivals, maybe you guys had a friendly banter off the field as well. Yeah, you know, we had the quarterback club back when I first got into the league. I think that was formed in like 1990. So I was going into my second year. Now, I mind you that I was on the worst team in front.

football, my rookie year. So when this quarterback club was formed, you know, I was the real young guy, but it was the guys you would expect, John Elway, Dan Marino, Phil Sims, Randall Cunningham, Boomeric Seism, and Steve Young. I mean, the list goes on. It list goes on and on it. It was great. So I got to be around those guys a lot in the offseason, a lot of banner, a lot of good fun. The guy that I probably enjoy, you know, Steve Young and I were always really close, had a lot of fun. And I think primarily because of what Sean just related to, the fact that we had so many great games against each other. Yeah. Ultimately, once we got beyond some of that stuff.

But Phil Sims was a guy that I really enjoyed being around. He was 10 years older than I am and had a lot of fun with him. Chris Sims, of course, we all know him. You know, he was just a little kid back when, you know, when I was hanging with some of those guys. So, yeah, it was a lot of fun back in the day with some of those quarterbacks. Dan Marino, he was essentially, he was like, he was. like Frank Sinatra of that club. He was chairman of the board. You know, you can imagine. I mean, everybody just kind of followed around behind Dan Marino. What was the quarterbacks club? Because I don't

have it now. And I think it died off originally. But was it like you guys had a separate wing of the NFLPA, if I'm not mistaken. What was it? Yeah, I think it was, uh, it wasn't me that that was instrumental and pulling it together. Uh, I benefited from it. But I think it was a group of quarterbacks and really some marketing people that realized that there was a lot of power in numbers with the stars of the league. I wasn't one of them at that time. Like I said, but, you know, eventually we won some Super Bowls and then it became a very profitable deal for me. But I think the league, they never did like it. They didn't like that there was a group of players that basically annexed themselves. You couldn't do a trading card deal with the league unless you, you know, otherwise you didn't

have the quarterback. So you had to go negotiate. a separate deal with this quarterback club. And in one of the CBAs, the quarterback club essentially got bought out. And nothing, of course, with all the power that the players seem to be acquiring here over the last year and a half or so, though, I wouldn't be surprised if something else like it emerged. Yeah. You know what?

I didn't realize that that had gone on. How willing were guys to, you know, because the interesting thing that we get asked from a coaching perspective all the time, Troy, and really the closest thing from a player's vantage point is all the stuff that's involved at the quarterback spot. How willing were guys to share with just the competitive balance? Because it's always a fine line with some of these guys that are close friends when you see them twice a year. But then if you say, okay, hey, good thing, Sala, or these guys are in another conference. How much did that come into play just knowing the competitive nature of what we're dealing with week in and week out? Yeah, it's a really good question. It's a lot like what you

face now, Sean. I mean, I think the, no one really got into too much of, of X's and O's and what, what we were trying to do it from that perspective. But I think what, what the takeaway was for me, being around all these quarterbacks, because guys get together and, and it becomes a bit of a bitch session, you know, to where you hear about, hey, you think, you think your situation screwed up. Let me tell you how these guys are doing it, you know, and so you realize. Let me tell you what an idiot McVeigh really is. Yeah, exactly. You know, and all those quarterbacks get together.

And so that part was it just kind of, it put a light on the fact that, you know, every organization has its laws. Some are run better than others. But yet at the end of the day, all of the organizations still to this day have areas where they can get better. But, you know, your grandfather, you talked about there with the San Francisco 49ers, that when I came in and really throughout my career, the 49ers were the gold standard. of how you take care of players. I mean, players,

players just wanted to go to San Francisco because they got taken such good care of. And we had a running back. And his name alludes me right now, but he was a backup player for the 49ers. We picked him up like in my second season. And Jimmy, he brought this, you know, collegial mentality.

And we practiced hard. And we hit. We were in full pads every day. And this running back could not believe. I mean, he wanted to quit football. I mean, coming from San Francisco, and then all of a sudden being thrown into our situation, it was much different.

Well, that was always the word, right? Like, DeBardo was the first one to have the teams fly on a private plane. They'd have those parties in Vegas at the end of the year. Sean, you could maybe fill us in a little bit. It was always, you always heard about it. Eddie DeBartolo took care of the players in a way that no other owner ever did back then. Yeah, he did. And there's a lot of rules that are in place because of how good he took care of guys.

right now. So I'd love to share a lot of the stories, but, you know, I can tell you this. It was first class. You know, even just something as small as I remember, you know, Eddie was so thoughtful about, hey, let's send the coaches or the players' wives' flowers on their birthday, just those little thoughtful things or, you know, things to make guys feel special. And that was kind of what Eddie really did. And then, you know, to Troy's point, the way that they practiced, that's where Bill Walsh was such a visionary in terms of, you know, knowing, hey, how are we going to efficiently get guys to the game while knowing that you do need to practice and push it. But if the guys aren't feeling good by the time the game rolls around, it doesn't

really matter. That's what I think is so great about the game of football is that when you play one game a week, every single game matters so much. And it's not always the best team that wins. It's the team that plays the best in that three and a half hour span. You know, where you're seeing the NBA, it's series. You know, you're talking about seven games series. And, you know, this is the only sport. it's the closest thing to March Madness that there really is, which is why it's so important to make sure you maximize these guys feeling good in that window of time. And I think that's where Bill was really ahead with kind of that strategic approach.

And then the Cowboys, you know, Troy's being modest, but the Cowboys then were the gold standards winning three Super Bowls when he was running the show. Well, you know, it's funny, Sean, is, you know, Walsh, he really was ahead of his time, you know, in terms of keeping players rested. Now you look at and the restrictions on, you know, some of these things that we're seeing now with players. I was talking to, I was talking to someone a couple of years ago and they said, you know, the interesting thing about football right now, it's the only sport where you can't practice it the way in which you play it on day day. And it's interesting. And I thought about that and I started thinking, you know, he's right.

He's totally right. The way in which you practice football is really far different than the way in which you're going to play. play it on game day. Basketball is not like that. Baseball is not like that. Soccer's not, you know, you go through all those other sports and it's an interesting time. I think it's an interesting time in our country for a lot of reasons, but it's an interesting time in the game of football and where ultimately all of this is heading on in terms of player safety and getting players ready at the same time, you know, not getting the time on the practice field. How does that affect the product on game day? There's a lot to it. And I hope, you know, I've been saying this

for a lot of years. I hope that we don't look back later in our lifetimes or the next generation look back at this current time and say, wow, there were some real missteps where we maybe didn't advance the ball the way that we should have. It concerns me a little bit. Let me, it's an interesting point because, you know, I remember Akeeb Taleb saying this, Troy, when he came and reflecting on his experience with the Patriots, he said, Bill, you pointed out the same thing that you did where it's the one game that because you can't really practice that way. When we do go full speed, we've got to make sure we're intentional about it because all these other sports can use their games as reps to get better and develop guys. You know, when you play

82 games in a season, winning one game in the NFL or losing one game is, hey, I'm either going like 7 and 0 or 0 and 7 and there's no in between. And so you got to find your spots to pick and choose. And Bill, he had talked to Akib and the team and said some same things. But based on your experiences as a player and now being still so heavily involved in the game as an announcer and doing all the things that you've done, have you seen that affected or what's your thoughts on just kind of pulling back with the practices? What's your feeling on that? Well, my thoughts, Sean, and I don't want to sound, you know, I don't want to age myself in these comments because when I look back on my career in our most successful years, um,

The groundwork for that success was done in the offseason. It was done from March through training camp and then into the season. And that's where relationships were forged. That's where you came together as a team. That's where you really learned to trust the guys that were in that locker room. And you knew there was something that went along with knowing that, hey, this guy put in the time in the off season. and there was a sense of trust that came with that.

You're probably a better guy to answer on that as far as whether or not, because you've seen it, you've seen it for a long time, where that is right now relative to going into a season. What I hear are a lot of people representing the players saying, we don't need to practice as much and we need more time off. And I just, I'm kind of old school, maybe too old school, that whether it's football or business or anything in life, it's something I preach to my girls all the time that you have to work at it. If you're going to be good at

anything, you've got to work at it. It doesn't just happen. And so my argument, I'm all for getting rested. I'm all for all those things. But at some point, you have to pose the question, do you want to be great or do you not? And do you want to be a great team? Do you want to be a great player. And if you do, that means you have to put in the time. And I don't care if it means that you have these days off. The people that are committed and motivated, they'll be there. An interesting point. I was just having this conversation this morning. Yeah. I was surprised to hear Tom Brady say, yeah, the players need more time off. Or he was more vocal. It shocked me because I know Tom well. And then I realize that that's the greatness of Tom Brady because I can assure you he's not taking those days off.

And that and that team has not taken those days off. And so he views it as a total competitive advantage. If teams are practicing less and he's practicing more, well, that's going to give him a leg up on the competition. And I think that was really the whole motivation in his comments. And that's absolutely right. I spoke to a coach when Brady made those comments and his comments where we should have more time off. I don't need to be there. And he said, if I can get my quarterback to get 40 guys to go to a high school field with

them every day, then fine, sure. But most quarterbacks can't get their guys to do that. Brady can. Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think it's, I don't know, Sean, you're the right guy to answer, you know, what you see and what you saw from before. And if there's any element of that that suffers, you know, we started throwing me and Irvin and, you know, Alvin Harper and Novichick and Emmett, you know, we started throwing in March.

We threw three days a week from March through training camp. I mean, that's what we did. And, you know, so it's, it is, it is much different. I'm not saying that what we did was better. But there is, there comes a point where there's diminishing return. If you're not practicing, something's going to suffer ultimately there, you know, where is that balance? I don't know.

Maybe we're striking the right balance. I'm not sure. Yeah. I think you said it, I think what you said at the very beginning is exactly, you know, what resonates with me, Troy, is that, you know, nowadays it's such a specialized offseason approach. Guys are working. and they got their trainers, things like that. You know, I think what it really boils down to is they all,

most of these guys, anybody that's really good at what they do, they love their profession, they like working at it. But they like doing it in the area that they live. So places like where we are or being in Tampa or if you're in the Dallas's, places that guys will spend their years where, hey, I like to live here year round. It's easy to get that rapport. What I think you miss out on is the time spent where there's real relationships built. And I think that ends up being a,

great separator when the margin for error is that slim in our league, as you know, as well as anybody. And that's the difference. It's just, you know, I've heard it said before, you know, love is spelled T-I-M-E, you know, being able to spend time with guys matters, you know, building and developing rapportes, understanding, and there's so many positions. I mean, like, you talk about how important it is to get a feel with your receivers, your tight ends, when you're throwing to the backs out of the back field, understanding how to work in concert with the center with all the communication that that quarterback position entails. And so that's the kind of stuff that I think you miss out on where repetition is the mother of learning. The more reps you can get, the better.

But as long as everybody's on an even playing field, and that's the genius in Tom, right? Because he knows he's going to organize the workouts. And it's the same things that I'm sure you would have done if you were playing in this era. It's what Peyton was doing, you know, before he retired. And, you know, that's the great separator. And that's why having the right guys at the switch makes the difference. You make a good point. You know, when Jimmy came in, guys around the league, I think this was league-wide, that the season would end and players would go wherever it is that they lived. And a lot of those places being California, Florida, or warmer climates. And Jimmy made it real clear that if you weren't in Dallas in the off-season, you were not going to be on the team. And fortunately,

you know, fortunately, Dallas is a great city to be in, to be living in year-round. And our players did. and not as many did it prior to Jimmy coming around, but I can understand, totally can understand, where if you're in some of these cities and you're a California guy and you want to get out of the northeast and get out of the cold and maybe you don't want to train in some of the same facilities as you might if you were in Dallas or with the Rams and some of these warmer climates, Tampa Bay and what have you.

I want to apply some of these things to your current profession, Troy. I know you do a lot of things, but broadcasting for Fox, When you were first getting into the broadcast game, when did you get your reps? How did you get your reps? Because you tell me, I don't know your full resume, but I know it was a couple years. And then you were thrown into the John Madden's seat, which was the number one seat. And you've been there 15 years now doing it. So where did you first get your wax at it?

And then sort of did you learn from a coach? Like, where did it all go down where you became what you're at today on the pinnacle of the game? Well, it's interesting that I was playing. It was 1998 and make a long story. short, I had been asked for a number of years to go over to Europe and broadcast games for Fox. And it just wasn't something I was interested in. The World League or NFL Europe? Yeah, NFL Europe.

And I just wasn't interested in, I didn't think it was something that I'd really enjoy. I thought Dion Sanders would go into television. We thought Michael would go into, but that was kind of it. And it really, during that era, not many guys really talked about going into broadcasting when they got done playing. But I went over there, Brad Cham, the voice of the Cowboys. always on radio. I'd always done a radio show with him. And he was my partner. And I, and I had comfort in that knowing that, gosh, if I have nothing to say, I couldn't. And the reason

I didn't think that I would enjoy it is because I always wondered, how do you talk for three and a half hours? I mean, how do you have, how do you have that much to say, you know? And, but then when you prepare and you're getting ready for a game, you find out that there's really quite a bit that you want to talk about. There's not enough time, really. And so I enjoyed it. And And I think I enjoyed it because I already had this relationship with Brad Sham as the play-by-play guy. And we left the booth and I thought, man, this was really a lot of fun. And I got a call from Ed Gorn with Fox and he said, hey, I don't know how many years you're going to continue to play. But when you retire, we've got a job for you at Fox.

And I thought, so that was the first time that I thought, well, maybe this is something I might be interested in doing until I figure out exactly what I want to do when I retire. Two years later, I was contemplating retirement. and Matt Millen had just taken the GM job with the Detroit line. He was the number two guy at Fox. And so Ed Goren called me and said, hey, if you do decide to retire, we'd like to hire you and put you in the number two spot. And one of the reasons,

I don't want to speak for Matt Millen, but I think one of the reasons he took that job, one, it was a great opportunity. But two, you know, John Madden wasn't going anywhere. He was the number one guy. He was the 800-pound gorilla, and John and I are good buddies.

And a year passed with me as the number two guy, and I got a call, as soon as that season ended. And he said, hey, I just want you to know, I'm going to Monday night football. And I thought, wow, you're kidding me.

He said, no, and I had, I didn't give a thought as to how that might affect me in any way. I mean, I just didn't even hit me as to what that might mean for me. And then they elevated me and Joe Buck

and Chris Collinsworth into a three-man booth. And that was 2002. And I've been in the, I've been in the number one seat. Chris worked with him for three years. And he went to NBC. And, you know, Joe and I,

we're going on our 20th year, 21st year together. And it's, it's bizarre, you know. I mean, it's been, and it's been a great job in terms of just quality of life and being a single dad and raising my, my youngest just graduated from high school. Congratulations. Wow. Yeah. So it's hard to believe that, I mean, I've been doing this the whole time they've been being raised and to be able to be there for those big moments throughout their lives where, if you're, if you're a coach, you know, you don't get to do all those things. You just can't. And if you're in a lot of other professions, but, you know, broadcasting afforded me a great life with my, with my girls and gave me flexibility to work

on my time. It's a lot of work, it's especially a lot of work doing Thursday nights in addition to Sunday, but it's afforded me some flexibility in being able to be there for my girls', you know, big moments in their lives. It's been great. Yeah, Peter, I'll tell you what, as, you know, going into our fifth year, you know, Troy and I have gotten to develop a good friendship and relationship. And I think one of the things that immediately resonated with me is, number one, if we're having games with Troy, it means we're worth a shit. Okay, so that's a good thing. And number two, Hey, Sean, you see me on the sidelines. Things aren't going so hot. You said it, Peter, not me. I just know this. If we're in the A slot, it means things are good for the Rams because that means

we're doing just fine with the schedule makers. People want to see us. But you know what's pretty cool, though, is, and I think Troy can attest to this. You know, why we've always hit it off is there's a passion about football. But, you know, you can tell he's working at it. He's studying it very similar to the way that you'd like to as a coach or even when you're putting yourself in a position to go prepare as a quarterback. Like, that's why I would bet this is such a seamless transition for you is because, well, naturally the position that you are a Hall of Famer at, you're responsible for

knowing all this information to do your job at a high level because of all the mental things. And then, oh, by the way, so much of what your job also entails is communicating that to the other 10, recognizing, making those transitions and those things that occur throughout the course of the game or even in your preparation leading up to it. So it probably was pretty seamless in a lot of ways where there's a carryover that wasn't probably as much of a transition as a lot of people would think. Am I wrong to say that? No, it's totally right. And you're right. I mean, the times when I've gotten to, I've gotten to be more in meetings with Sean since he became the head coach. It seems that we've had more Rams games than we were having Washington games when he was the coordinator

there. But right from the beginning, you know, as a young guy to come in and, and for me to talk offensive football, it was great because I've said it so many times, the tree or the lineage that you come from, Sean, is, is along the lines of what I did in Dallas under Norp Turner and Ernie's Ampeze, and I really relate and I really like what it is that you're doing. But the most fun I probably have in my job is in the meetings with guys like yourself, and being able to actually, you know, talk football and just, and just hear it. I don't, I don't pretend to know it all. And I know that the game has changed and it's evolved over the years. I've been away from it now for 20 years. But to be able to get educator or look at things on film and then ask questions about, hey,

what, you know, what exactly is going on? You know, Norv Turner was in town about a month ago, and we stayed up late one night, and I was asking him about some things within formations that's just different. We didn't do all the spread sets and all the shotgun formations back when I was playing. And, you know, we stayed up until early in the morning, just going through it all and the verbiage, and it was really, it was fun because I knew what he was talking about.

And so that's the most enjoyable part. I think that what happens to a lot of guys, and Peter knows this, that when you get into this profession, whether I don't care if it's when you're doing a game or if you're a studio analyst, if you know football, there's a tendency to say, this is going to be great because I'm going to get a chance to educate and really, you know, show the viewer or tell the viewer something that they don't already know. But you then realize you have small little sound bites to be able to get that done. So you don't really get to be the educator that you may think you're going to be.

be. And then on the other hand, at the end of the day, this is still, this is still entertainment. It's, it's, it's, it's a TV show. And I don't know, you got to be careful into thinking your broadcast in a game for all football coaches, you know, I mean, there's a, there's a, there's a movement target, you know, David Hill, uh, who along with Ed Gorn, you know, David Hill started up Fox Sports when he came from Australia back in 1994. And, and in our first seminar that I was a part of. He said, hey, when you're talking as a game analyst, I want you to pretend like you're sitting on the couch with an eight-year-old boy. And I thought, well, that makes sense. You know, I mean, and it's his first time to watch the game. But then I started thinking about it.

I said, you know, not everyone in that audience is that eight-year-old boy. You know, some, there's, there's housewives there who have never seen the game of football that want to hear the background about this quarterback or this player and what makes him tick. And then there are those football coaches where they want a little bit more. So I think it's. I think you're always kind of talking to a moving target, and you just try to give everybody a little bit of something, and whether or not we're effective doing that, I don't know, but that's the objective and what we try to do. I'll tell you what, Peter, and you and I have talked about this, and even Troy, we have

in our conversations before. What it really is, though, it's no different than a teacher making sure you keep your highest common denominator engaged, but you're not speaking over the lowest common denominator. And I don't mean that to be like a negative thing with the audience, but there's different levels of interest and how do you make sure that you're going to hit a broad spectrum of people that still keeps all that different variation and people that, hey, you might be talking to guys that are really loving football, want the X's and O's, or like you said, somebody that's more interested in the background or their family history, stuff like that. And that's what

I think you and Joe do such a good job of. And, you know, sometimes as coaches, you know, it's become such so much more relevant because you're mandated to might. guys now with the audio. So, you know, I don't like to watch it so that I can hear you tell me what a good play call or bad play call. I mean, but what's amazing is you got to watch the audio broadcast now to make sure that, okay, from a cadence, from a code words, all the different things that get picked up. Was that a part of it when you were playing? I don't even know how long those rules have been in place. No. And I know that, yeah, now you get you get the ISOs. you know, John Gruden, when he was broadcasting, he collected a lot of data.

You know, he collected a lot of film. And, you know, that ESPN was churning out because they got cameras. They got ISOs on these guys. And so it's my understanding now, Sean, tell me if I'm right or wrong, but that you're able to have a, not only do you have the sideline copy and the end zone copy, the traditional views that I had, but now they also are able to splice in a one-on-one ISO shot from a TV copy, you know, and they're able to look at it a little bit differently, which I think is, you know, is really a huge advantage.

And, you know, you talk about the audio, you probably wouldn't like this, but you've been so accessible to us, which is what we like. I mean, the people in the media, you know, one, you're just a good guy, but the accessibility that you give us when we do a Rams game. And I always tell the coaches that we're not the media. You know, we're not. And I think the more open, the more, the more availability that we get as broadcasters for the game, the better it is for the coaches.

Because then I can say, I'm not looking to hammer anybody. But if I at least know what the plan was, if it's not going so well, I can, you know, I can at least then say, hey, this is not. what they were wanting to do. They were hoping to do this and gives them a little bit of leeway. But I look at baseball. I see Joe Buck interviewing the manager during a world, journal World Series game, you know, and I think that it would be great if we were able to get that kind of access. And it's hard. It's hard to, it's hard to tear down those walls that have been built over years because there's so much secrecy between coaches and the media. But to be able to have

access to coaches in game, you know, in between periods, or if you go to a TV timeout and just hop on real quick. We're always looking at how can we bring the fan closer, you know, to the game. And I think that that would be something that fans would really, really enjoy. There's a price for that, I'm sure, as far as what people would have. There's a price on everything when it comes to the negotiations with the NFL. TRI, I think it's so interesting you talk about the meetings. And I think for the listener of the Flying Coach podcast, they always hear the announcer say, well, when we spoke to Sean McVeigh on Friday. He told us that Robert Woods might be able to be used in this way.

Can you take us through what a production meeting is? And maybe besides Sean, a couple of other coaches that you enjoy meeting with and maybe what their perspectives are and how they approach these production meetings. Yeah. So for your listeners, the production meetings are really, they're for the broadcasters. It's, you know, sometimes I think a coach or a player may have an agenda, may want to get a message out that they're hoping to influence, you know, storyline or something that may be of relevance going into the game.

But for the most part, it's them doing us a favor and sitting down and answering our questions about players, who's playing well, who's not. I do a lot of homework prior to getting on the calls. And I've watched the film. And so you learn right away when you ask questions like,

hey, how's so-and-so playing? And in my opinion, you know, I've watched two or three games and I'm saying he doesn't look very good. And the coach says, oh, you know, he's doing a good job. And then you start to know whether or not you can trust the rest of what you're hearing

from that particular coach or, you know, and sometimes you are a little bit. You know, you say, hey, you're sure because I say, well, no, you're right about that, but here's the deal. So it's just, for me, it's kind of a checks and balance. And it's nice to have an idea about players, but then also kind of what the game plan is going in. What are they thinking? How do they want to open the game?

And it's just for us to have a chance to share with the viewer. And a lot of times we're told some very sensitive information that cannot come out. And once the game starts, then it's okay. But you got to be real protective of that. You're talking about injury information and that kind of stuff? Injury information. I mean, one time we were told, you know, Mike McCarthy, when he was with the Green Bay Packers, I said, hey, last, before you get, before you leave, are there any,

there any lineup changes, anything we need to know of, anything, you know, unconventional that, that maybe we should be alerted to as a big game. And he kind of looked around and then he said, hey, well, I just want you to know. He had given up play calling earlier in the season. He said, I just want you to know, I'm going to be calling the plays tomorrow. This was on a Saturday and we said,

okay, he goes, now look, there was only four people in the room. And he says, I don't want, I don't want anyone to know about this. You know, once the game starts, it's okay. But, you know, I don't want to tip off whoever there was they were playing. I kid you not, an hour later, within an hour, Jay Glazer was reporting it on Fox. And so, you know, Mike was not happy, but what happened is it wasn't, it didn't come from our production. Sure.

Mike went into a staff meeting and told the staff that he was going to be calling the plays and all of these people within a coaching staff, Sean knows this. They all have relationships with people in the media as well. And somebody tipped off Jay Glazer. And so I just, I reached out to Mike and just want to make sure that he knew that, hey, We had nothing to benefit by telling anyone about something like that. But that's really kind of the gist of the production meetings. And like I said, Sean's always been great. Sean Payton, he's always been fantastic.

McCarthy has always been good. Most everybody is good. John Gruden is highly entertaining. And then you walk out, you're like, I don't think I really got anything. I didn't say anything. I don't think he really told me anything. And you look at your notes and you're like, yeah, no, I didn't get much out of that. But it was an entertaining hour, you know, some of the most fun you ever had.

And then Belichick, you know, he's, as you would expect, he doesn't say much. But in the last couple years, he's been, he's been amazing with me. He's been very open. He's kind of laid it all out there. And it, which has been, it is really helpful for those on this side of it, as you know, No, Peter, when a coach is a little more forthright and open. Sure. I mean, I've done Sean Payton once before where he openly says,

Tayson Hill is going to be on special teams. Now, don't say that until the game. And then the game starts off. And there's number seven running down the field as a gunner. And everyone says, we were already well-versed because Sean tipped us off. And that's appreciated. Because for a broadcast team to have the shot of Tayson Hill running down on specials, that's great.

And you would have never expected that if you didn't know. Well, you worry about like a guy who like Bill, check who is always looking for an edge and you worry that he's going to pull something out of his hat and you're not going to I mean you're not even going to know if it's legal you know was it you know like when they did against the Colts that's three guys on the line and all that and you're sitting and it's your job now to try to explain what just happened and you're and you you know that's what that's what you worry about you especially worry about that in a in a really big game now Sean Payton, he goes through his flip card.

I don't care if you had him last week or three times in the last four weeks. He goes through his flip card to start every production. And the flip card for the listener is your depth chart, but it's three deep at every position. And go on. I'm sorry, Troy, he's giving them. No, and he goes through every player. And so it is, it's time consuming. But, I mean, you know something about every player on that roster.

Well, now I feel really inept. You haven't even asked the question. yet. That is unbelievable. You know what, though? I will say this, Peter, and you've been part of both of these, too, but to Troy's credit, there comes a level of respect with when you can tell, all right, whether you're a coach or a player, you know, the good ones, they're all working at it. And you can immediately feel with the questions that he asked, like the production meetings are always the easiest to me when you're working with the guys that you can tell, they put the work in. So they're asking the right kind of questions. And anybody that, that is

interested in the things that you're passionate about, that's easy to talk about. And so, you know, the week of preparation and what that leads into and how you want to put it together, there's a level of trust that exists, just like Troy's talking about. But I think there's also a level of respect that makes you feel like, man, how cool is this? And that's where as a coach, but man, I'm a fan of football. And I've, you know, growing up, you know, sometimes you've got to pinch yourself and say how unique it is to get an opportunity to talk ball with guys like Troy Akeman, like the Jimmy Johnson's when I spent some time with those guys a couple weeks ago, and you want to take advantage of it. And then, oh, by the way, this is what you do for a job

that's helping guys talk about the game in a positive way. It's like, you've got to be kidding me. This is outstanding. It's a fine line, Sean. It's a hard deal. It's something that I've always I've always been aware of and I've always kind of guarded against as best you can because when I was a player, the guy's on the outside, and I don't care how long you played in the game or what your resume may look like, when you're no longer with a club and you're on, you're in the media, you're on the outside. And so I, I've always, I've never wanted to lose the respect that you work so hard to try to gain as a player. And in your case, you know, now as a coach. And I, never wanted to be viewed. I've never wanted to be viewed as a guy who's on the outside or,

or hey, you know, he's clueless. He doesn't even know the game anymore, you know, or whatever. And I know that there's part of that. Part of that is just part of the job when you're no longer within a club. But I just try to always be respectful of the guys who are playing it and the guys who are coaching it because it's not easy. And I try to pay them the proper respect. You've got to have an opinion. and you got to call it when it's not very good and all those things. I don't get too worked up unless guys just, if the effort's not there and there's just some of those types of things, then I can come down pretty hard. But people make mistakes.

And I just try to be respectful of the people that are doing it because it's a tough, it's a tough profession. I mean, I know we say it's still a game, but it's a billion dollar industry. And with that comes a lot of pressure. Yeah. You know, it's funny because, you know, former coworker and John Lynch, he's done a great job transitioning to become a GM. And obviously, your big picture perspective on the game, I would be interested if, if one, that's ever been something that you've thought about. And if so, if you put your owner hat on, I've asked this to Peter, what are you looking for in that GM and that head coach if you're hiring those positions?

Well, it's, I actually, I always thought that when I retired, I always thought that I would eventually work in a front office. That was kind of the plan. When I got into broadcast and I said, well, see what happens. I knew it wouldn't be in Dallas just because of the structure of the family. So it would require going somewhere else. But then when I became a single dad, it just didn't offer itself. It wasn't the right thing for me to do. to try to uproot my girls and go somewhere else.

And so I kind of got put along this path and tried to make their lives the best I possibly could for them. And then now with my youngest graduating, if I were to pursue that, Sean, now would be the time that I could go do that. And I'm 54 years old. It's a young man's game. I think I could still do it. And I think I'd be really good at it.

but I'm not naive enough to think that there's a lot of, there's a lot of football and there's a lot of things within, within an organization that I would, that I would need to get caught up to speed on, you know, to do that job. I don't think you just walk out of a broadcast booth and then take over as a GM and expect it to be seamless.

So I understand that, whether or not it's ultimately the life that I would want. If I did it, quite honestly, it would really be an ego decision because my life is really good right now. Most people on the planet want the life that I currently have. And so it would just be, it would be, it'd be less money and a hell of a lot more work. But it would be something to where I could say, hey, this is something that I wanted to prove to myself and that I could do it and kind of put the money where my mouth is.

But I don't know that that would ever happen. My thoughts on, I mean, I have thoughts on the type of head coach that I think is important. to have. I think that my strength is reading people very well. And so I would put that to test. I think that there definitely has to be a structure within an organization that general managers, they have their role, and then the head coach has his role. But I do think as a player, that the head coach has to be the guy who the players respond to. And he has to be the guy who they answer to and that they feel that their fate is in the hands of the head coach. whether or not that's the case behind the scenes, that's for someone else.

But I think that when you look at the organizations that have had success, they've been run by very strong-willed head coaches, and the players know that that guy is in charge. And that would be important to me. And my first criteria, Sean, I'm asked a lot, get a lot of calls, much like Peter does, about different guys. We get a chance to meet them in these production meetings. What do I think of them and what have you?

by people that are in the hiring positions for these organizations. The number one criteria that I have for being a head coach is, even in the best of seasons, there are times within a 16 game season now to be 17 games where there is some controversy and there are some hardships. And a coach has to be able to stand in front of 53 guys and command the room. And if he can't do that, then I don't want him as my head coach. Now, I have other things that I think are important.

and I would want an offensive guy. I think the game is so driven by quarterbacks that I want a great offensive guy who I know is going to be there with that quarterback long term. But he has to be a head coach first. And I wouldn't hire an offensive guy just because he was a great offensive guy if I didn't think he could be a head coach.

And there is a difference between those two things. So that's kind of how, and I think that it's important. I witnessed it with Jerry and Jimmy that the GM and the head coach, they have to be on the same page. I mean, there has to be compatibility there. Whether the GM hired the head coach or whether the head coach influenced the hiring of the GM,

I don't really care as long as those two guys are getting along. I think the organizations, I don't see many of them where they're not getting along where it works. I think that's a, I have a great question on that. So you had Jimmy as a head coach. Obviously, they had a falling out

and then Switzerland, who's a completely different head coach. You won Super Bowls with both of them. Can you maybe take us through the differences? And I know you could laugh and say, the Switzerland years, whatever, but you did win a Super Bowl with Switzerland. So what were the differences between Jimmy and Switzerland and how you could still rise above and win a Super Bowl with two different head coaches? Well, I think it was a tough situation for Barry because he hadn't been coaching in a while.

He takes over a team that had just come off back-to-back world championships. And he doesn't know how Jimmy had been doing it. I mean, he heard, but he doesn't have firsthand knowledge. And he comes in and he's just trying to keep from screwing it up. You know, we had all the same assistance and all that. So it was not, it was different. You know, Jimmy was tough. He was a demanding head coach.

He didn't tolerate a lot. He was, I've always said, there was no one who was more fun to be around after a win. And there was no one who was more difficult to be around after a loss. And not every player, not every player is affected by losing as some others are. And Jimmy made it to where, okay, maybe losing doesn't bother you the way that I'd like for it, but I'm going to make having to deal with me so miserable that that's that's going to motivate you. You know, I mean, he was and Barry, Barry wasn't like that. Barry, Barry was, you know, he was more, I guess for lack of a better way of putting in more of a players coach.

But when Jimmy left, Jimmy's greatest strength. I mean, he was a great motivator. He was really smart. He knew how to prepare a team throughout the week. But beyond that, his greatest strength was his evaluation of talent. And so when we lost Jimmy, not only did we lose a head coach that really kind of kept the thumb on us, but we lost a guy who was a tremendous talent evaluator and we weren't getting the players. We weren't drafting the players the way that.

So we were losing players. Free agency had just come into play. And then we weren't replacing those players with the talent. So it was kind of a double-edged sword when we lost Jimmy on both fronts. And it took a long time, it took a real long time for Dallas to kind of come. come out from that and figure out their personnel department. I think the listener at home and maybe us, Sean and I, like we think about you as a cowboy, three Super Bowls, Hall of Fame,

but it wasn't smooth sailing from the start for you. And, you know, Peyton Manning famously had the most interceptions and a rookie season. But gosh, they drafted someone else in the supplemental draft after taking you first overall. I don't think people talk about that enough with Troy Ekman's career, just how rough it was in the early going in Dallas. Yeah, it was, you know, they drafted me. Jimmy, I was Oklahoma State's number one recruit coming out of high school in 84. Jimmy was the head coach at Oklahoma State.

I went to Jimmy Johnson football camp in Stillwater, Oklahoma. I'll send you a picture. I mean, it's hilarious. I was 15 years old, you know, when I went. And so I'd known Jimmy a long time, turned him down at Oklahoma State, turned him down when I was transferring when he was at the University of Miami. And the next thing I know, he's the head coach at the Cowboys. when I'm coming out of college and he said you can't turn me down again because I'm picking

you number one overall. Yeah, and I was hoping he wouldn't turn me down, you know, because I really wanted to go to Dallas. But I got a call from Jerry Jones. I'm going to drive back to Henriette, Oklahoma for the weekend. I got a call from Jerry and he said, hey, says the supplemental drafts coming up this weekend. And I just want you to know that if we get the pick, we're going to take Tim Rosenbaugh, who was also a pack 10 quarterback of the time at Washington State. He said, we're going to draft Tim Rosenbaum, but we're only going to take him and we're going to trade him. And I said, yeah, okay, I didn't think anything of it. I didn't even know what the supplemental draft was. I mean, I was just like, whatever. And

I thought that meant, okay, we take him and then we ship him and I'll never even see him, you know, it's not a big deal. Well, they didn't take Rosenball. He took Steve Walsh. And so then all of a sudden, you've got a quarterback who won a national championship at the university with Jimmy there in Miami. And it just, it created some real tension with me and Jimmy and me and Steve. And the whole thing was kind of tough. And then when you lose on top of all that, it's not good. My rookie year, I was own 11 as a starter. There were games, there were plenty of games where I didn't play very well.

But there were some games where I played exceptionally well. And yet only to lose a game late and to have it taken away from us in the last minute of the game or whatever. it might be. And I just remember walking off the field so many times that rookie year going, man, what do you got to do to win a game in this league? I mean, I couldn't believe it. I'd never been through a stretch like that, you know, 11 starts and 11 times walking off the field and defeat. And fortunately for me, my second year, we opened up at home against the Chargers and we won the game. And if we had started that off with another, I mean, at least I finally got that, you know, out of the way. But yeah, we were pretty bad. And,

think that we turned it around as quickly as we did. The Herschel trade obviously had a lot to do with that, but a lot of things came together. And it was a magical time to be in Dallas, and especially to be a part of the franchise. I think it came too easy as what happened, because Jimmy, of course, had never been in the NFL, Jerry, a new owner in the league. And to win a world championship three years after you were the worst team in football, I think that had it have happened differently, they would have been more tolerable of each other than they were. Yeah, I also think, too, it's such a credit, though, when you look at going through a little bit of that adversity early on, you and Jimmy coming in together, and it's eerie that you said

what you did about what you're looking for and a head coach. And in a lot of instances, I think those same traits apply to the quarterback position because you're innately thrust into a leadership role. And if you don't have the ability for when people are looking at you and there's a little bit of adversity to say, I believe that this person can have. help us dig our way out of this hole. And I think that your coach, quarterback, any of your key leaders, whether it be from your coaching staff or from your players, that's got to be such a cool perspective, though. And now here you are getting ready to introduce. You're going to be

the guy introducing Jimmy Johnson. You've already been in. And now here he gets in after, you know, the things that, hey, sometimes it doesn't always start off great, but now here we are. That's got to be a pretty special thing too, right, Troy? I mean, watching when you found out that he was inducted into it. You can't fake that emotion. I remember watching thinking, man, that is what people love about sports and the thing that you just can't replicate in any other arena because of the emotions and the relationships that you build. I get emotional still, Sean, thinking about that moment when he got surprised. I mean, we were doing the game and we're going to halftime. And my producer got in my ear and said, hey, they're doing a little

thing at halftime they want they want you to be on headset and listen to it and and that's not that doesn't happen a lot but usually it's because they're going to be talking about something that happened in the first half and they want me to be able to talk a little bit more about it in the second half and so i had no idea and and the reason it was so emotional for me um was because here's a guy who meant so much to our teams right and our success and yet he hasn't been properly honored for his contributions. I mean, he's not even in the Cowboys Ring of Honor. And so we've talked that. He and I have talked about, you know, him not being in the ring of honor. I know how much it would mean to him if he, if he were and he should be. And I never really thought that he would go into

the pro football hall fame because I didn't think that he had done it long enough, not that he wasn't deserving. I just thought, you know, it's one of those deals where Jimmy wanted to go to the Florida of Keys and fish and unfortunately that's going to keep him from ultimately getting into the Hall of Fame. And so when all of a sudden I'm watching this and then here comes David Baker and he he says, you know, you're going into the Pro Football Hall of Fame to see Jimmy's reaction is why I got so emotional about it because I know how much it has meant to him to be recognized for what he's, you know, he was, there were a lot of guys, as you know, When you have that kind of success, there's a lot of people that play a significant role in that.

But the guy who was most responsible was Jimmy Johnson. And so that's amazing. That was pretty impactful. Now, you know, people ask me, they said, hey, do you think that you'll be his presenter? And I said, oh, heavens, no. I said, there's one of four people that are going to present Jimmy. I said, it'll either be one of his two sons or it'll be his longtime attorney, Nick Christian, or it'll be Terry Bradshaw. I said it'll be one of those four guys.

And when we were doing the Super Bowl in Miami, I got there on Monday to check into the hotel there in South Beach. And Jimmy was waiting in the lobby. And as soon as I walk in with my luggage, he comes up and he says, hey, it was the first time I'd seen him in person since he had gotten the news. And he gave him a big hug. And he said, hey, he says, I want you to present me. And I was floored.

And it's the greatest honor. Quite honestly, it's a bigger honor to me. than me even going into the pro football hall thing because if you think about it, when you go, you can ask anybody on the planet to present you. I mean, you've got anyone you want. You can ask to be your presenter. And the fact that he asked me, I mean, it's an honor of a lifetime. I can't wait for it.

I'm so excited for him. It's going to be an awesome weekend there in Canton, Ohio. That is special. That's so special. That's where we're going to stop that one. and Sean, Troy is so good that we're going to bring a part two for next episode. We're going to finish it with him. But gosh, Aikman, is he not the real deal?

Real deal. So insightful. You know, sometimes you think to yourself, you know, here I am watching him do his thing when I'm younger. But for us to be able to do something as a job where we get a chance to talk to Troy Akeman, three-time Super Bowl winning quarterback, Hall of Famer, the perspectives, the different opinions and thought processes that he has. behind everything that he does.

This is not a bad deal doing this with you, Peter. No, it isn't. It's flying coach. And one of our most important pieces is our great producer, Craig Horlebeck, who is now going to join us. Craig, what's up, big man? I'm just enjoying my job sitting here listening to you guys, talk to Troy. It doesn't get much better.

That's pretty good. It's a good deal for all of us. It is. Craig, I want to bring on the emails and the voicemails, but I got a tweet from a Twitter handle, and I don't have it on hand here. but they said the suggestion, instead of calling it the emails and the voicemail, should just be the inbox. Does that work?

Or are we too late in the game and we're kind of, we've already got our thing? I mean, I feel like you want to go big or go home. The inbox feels like you're running on third and long. I don't know if that's what you want to do. Sean does it do for you? We're reaching. We're really reaching there. We're really having a tough time with this, aren't we, Peter?

Somebody suggested first class mail, like flying coach, first class. Yeah, well, hey, you know, I mean, Troy did start out the episode strong, you know, talking about it's flying first class with Cliff Kingsbury. So I like that direction a lot better than anything else that I've heard. So we'll keep swinging. We'll keep taking stabs at this. By the end, maybe we'll have it figured out. But we're getting late in the down, Peter.

It's about time that you've freaking showed a little personality, please. It would have been nice if Arthur Smith could call his dad and FedEx can maybe sponsor this and we could have some sort of. We didn't go there with him, unfortunately. That's good. Yeah, next time. That'll be season three next year, which Sean has already committed to, right, Sean? No, Peter. I have not.

Craig, let's do it, man. E-mails and voicemail. What do we got? All right, this is Frank from Chicago. He says, I've been a die-hard Rams fan since the greatest show on turf days, so much so that I've been at every home opener or week one game for the past decade, no matter where it is. He says, he wanted to talk about the 2019 NFC championship game in New Orleans,

aka the best day of his life. That game took the cake for the loudest, I've ever been in as a fan. As a coach slash team, that's what he's asking about. How was that experience for you? It seemed like early on the noise really threw off the flow of the offense, but you guys made adjustments going into the half to get the ball moving. How do you counteract the noise and hostile environments and what changes are made to the

play-calling game planning or calls at the line of scrimmage? Wow. You know what? Very insightful, intuitive, and accurate on what he said. By far, the loudest game I've ever coached in, Craig. So it's funny because we had played at New Orleans earlier. the year. And so, you know, we figured, you know, that there was an unbelievable atmosphere, but we still had the ability to kind of communicate and get some, some of our intricate,

longer developing play calls and they never really feel like it was too much of an issue, but you're still operating on your silent count, different things like that. Maybe you can use your verbal cadence when you're underneath the center. So we were going to test the headset out, headset out in warmups. So I'm talking to golf as they're introducing their guys, and I'm thinking, holy shit, we got no chance of communicating the way that we did before. It was like a Metallica concert sitting front row that never slowed up. And they did one of the most genius things I've ever seen. So they, you know, they, they had all the tricks.

This was a well-schooled fan base. They had it. They were going to get their home field advantage. And one of the things I'll never forget is there was a little bit of a kind of a clock stoppage, a break in the action and they put up on the jumbotron. You know, Robert Woods was doing an interview that week and he said, you know, hey, it's going to be a great atmosphere, but, you know, we're confident that, you know, we can handle it with the nonverbal communication and it's not going to be a factor.

You know, given the answers that you want your players to say, well, they play this up on the loudspeaker, Robert Woods is over my right shoulder. The sound just continues to elevate. I wanted to say, why the hell did you say that? It was definitely the loudest atmosphere. it for sure affected our ability to communicate. We had to streamline the game plan. We had to eliminate a lot of the longer verbiage, wordy play calls.

And it was an adjustment. But our guy settled in and did a great job of finding a way to get it done. But that was definitely unparalleled in terms of the noise and what we had there. It was a rock and atmosphere, that's for sure. Sean, when that kick goes through from Zerline, how quiet is it? And what is the reaction on the sidelines? Well, I mean, the reaction is, let's effing go, baby. I mean, that was a, it's almost like it was a surreal moment.

But, you know, Greg Zerline had such a great year for us. You know, Jared made a couple great plays to get us in field goal range. They did a good job of really kind of stopping us, but there's such confidence. And what you forget is had we not made that, you talk about the short field that they're operating with offensively. But, you know, Dante Fowler forces the turnover. John Johnson makes the pick, make enough plays to get ourselves in field. field goal range. And for Zerline to hit it from that far out and that true, it was a special day. It was, it was magical that of your family. To be able to do that with the players, the coaches that

you care so much about, that was a special day for us. And hopefully we can have some stories about us finishing the job at some point. But that was a magical day. And one that I'll truly never forget, the silence after that kick went through was pretty awesome. Okay, last question before the voicemail here. I wanted to get one in for Peter. This is from Barry in Florida. He says, is speaking on TV just something you need to put in the reps for to be good at?

Or is there a regimen of some sorts that you followed or learned about that helped you prepare for live speaking and reporting? 10,000 hours. I think that was a Malcolm Gladwell term. Deliberate practice. Exactly right, dude. And that's it. As much as you think you can be thrown on there right out of college, you can't. can't. And as much as you think you can do a game right out of the gates, you can't. I would question any

announcer or challenge any announcer to go back to their first broadcast. And it is the most cringeworthy, hardest thing to possibly do. And I look back at our first good morning football shows. I can't watch it. I look back at my first sideline reports. I can't watch it, which is why I have such a place in my heart for some of like the younger broadcasters who are thrown on to the field. And maybe they stumble a little bit or even in the NBA playoffs. I'm watching some of these sideline reporters that my heart breaks for him because I'd been there, you just need the reps. So you could say you could hire a voice coach or you could hire a producer who could really help you hone your skills. And they're all great, but you need the reps and you need the

be thrown in the fire. One of the things I'll never forget was, and Troy was actually the announcer, but I was thrown on the sidelines with the A crew one game. And I think the year was 2015. and it was Seahawks Cowboys. And actually the Cowboys had some injuries that quarterback. It was before DAC was there. Romo wasn't playing and they threw Matt Castle in the game. And it ended up being the most viewed game

in the entire NFL that year. It was a regular season Seahawks Cowboys game. It was a tough one. Russell Wilson wins it. But at the end of the first half, Lockett on the Seahawks has a serious injury, like a serious neck injury. And he's carted off and it goes to halftime

and everyone goes into halftime. not knowing the status of this player. It was one of my first big games on the sidelines. And I'm like, I've got 10 minutes. I've got 10 minutes to not only find out the status of the player, but I've got to potentially reveal to the audience that there has been a serious injury. And I've got to do that with a different tone

than my usual bullshit. Hey, Mike Evans comes from Texas A&M where he was friends with Johnny Mansell and they were roommates playing video games. Like, I've got to do a whole different tone. Got the information. I'll never forget. the amazing work from Dave Pearson, who was the PR guy from the Seahawks, who was like, look,

right before kickoff was like, Lockett's going to the hospital, he's talking, he's fine, get out there. And I delivered the report to start the half. And it meant nothing to anyone at home, but I'm like, oh my God, that was crazy and the amount of gravity and the amount of eyeballs. And it's like, now I'd be thrilled and I would be challenged and I would want to have the opportunity to share that great news and be able to do it. And that's through six years of doing it. And so I just, I think it's, it's practice, it's experience. And if you notice, Aaron Andrews, Michelle Tofoya, and then right down to Collinsworth and Troy, those guys, like, they're a lot better than the sideline reporters and the announcers

who are being thrown into the booth and on the field for the first time in their career. Peter, as a follow-up, I got a question for you on that note. You know, if you said, okay, what's one of the things that a great sideline reporter does that you say that these are where these are the real separators between? the guys that are really good or the girls or, you know, people that are really good at this and the ones that are still just getting started. You know, for example, something as simple as a play caller is guys that get to play in early, give the offense or the defense times to operate, get the communication in, you know, that's one of the trademarks of, you know, making quick decisions,

but still thoughtful. Like, what would that be in that arena on the sideline? That's such a great question, Sean. So my whole goal always, and I'll tell to any of it, if I've read it in the Washington Post or on ESPN.com or in the Newark Star Ledger earlier that week, I do not want to see it on the broadcast. Like if some other reporter did a story about, you know, here's what Robert Woods' connection to the community is. And do not bring that to the broadcast because most of fans watching, the Rams fans in that case, have already read that article and was written by Sam Farmer and it was done a lot better than it's going to be done in a 30-second bit just to hear your voice on TV. I always think the sideline reporter's job is to bring something to the audience.

in real time that no one else has access for. So if you're just regurgitating some human interest story that we can Google and find out about this guy, that's not worth making the broadcast. I'd much rather hear about the game. But if Terrell Suggs is on the sideline and he's chewing out his defense and he's telling a young defensive end, you better get your ass in gear, I want to hear that. I want to know that in real time. So my challenge to any young sideline reporter, and I'm not the best of them,

I'm certainly not the most experienced. We've got, you know, between Pam Oliver and Aaron Andrews and Laura Oakman, people on our staff who have done it, you know, 10 times more than I have. And my guidance would be read the clips, be aware of what's going on in the week leading up, have that in your bag per se, have a, but don't bring that to the broadcast if it's unnecessary. If you have something that's better, injuries, real-time updates, and what you see on the field, interactions between the players, interactions between the coaches, That is so much better for a broadcast.

I'll never forget. I was told I'm the eyes and ears of the producer in the truck. So a lot of times the shit that I say doesn't make air, but I'll tell our producer and say, hey, by the way, Josh Allen just had it out with Stefan Diggs on the sideline. If you can get a camera on them moving forward, you might get some good fireworks over the next few plays. And that's really what makes you a good sideline reporter, not here's my voice or my face on camera. No one really wants to see you. They want to talk about the action anyway.

Love that. Okay, let's get to our voicemail. Here we go. What's up, Peter Schrager and Coach McVeigh. My name's Lyric. I'm from Huntington Beach, California, but currently living on Oahu, Hawaii. Nice.

For Shregs, I've been married for a few years now, and we have our first baby due next week. It's going to be a girl. I've seen the video of you and your kid rattling off the NFL QBs. I'm looking for any tips of how to brainwash my kid to watch sports with me. Looking for any tips. Thanks, guys. Well, first off,

congratulations. That is awesome news. That is so cool. And also congratulations on living in Hawaii. That sounds pretty nice. Gosh. So, Sean, I laughed because you were talking one of the previous episodes about the pandemic. And like you were just with you, Veronica, your fiance and the dog. And you were teaching him air bud tricks and being like, all right, let's do things around the pool. And air bud is my dog is, you know, going to do it. So I'm not comparing my son to, a pet by any means, but we had a lot of time together. And one of the things that I was like, let's learn all the NFL teams. And he knew the logo. So he would see the Ravens logo. And he's like, Baltimore Ravens. Then he would see the Rams, Los Angeles Rams. Then we took it one step further.

And I'm like, let's attach some of the quarterbacks to it. And it would be like, Green Bay Packers. And he would just say, Aaron Rogers. It would be like, Baltimore Ravens. He's like, Lamar Jackson. So we're having a blast. And like, this was over months and months of the two of us, just spending endless hours, which I will never ever value more than I do now, like just how cool it was that I had this time with my son, who, by the way, was three and a half when this was all happening. So then Good Morning Football is wrapping up and it's like maybe Father's Day week and he hops on my lap and it's a Friday before Father's Day of the pandemic. And I'm like, I'm like, all right, Mel, who's your favorite player? And he's like, Lamar Jackson, Baltimore

Ravens. I'm like, all right, well, who's the quarterback of the chiefs? He's like, Patrick Mahal Who's the quarterback now with the Buccaneers? Tom Brady, and he's three and a half. And the response that we got was so fun. And I was so proud of him, not only that he could speak on camera, but that he just was able to go with it. And it wasn't like practiced. Now, he's four and a half now.

The world's opening up, all this stuff. If I was to say to him, who's the quarterback of the Green Bay Packers? I don't think there's a chance in hell. He knows it's Aaron Rogers. But at that moment, in that time, that was what we were doing. And it all clicked. And my advice to anyone trying to teach their kid the game, just have it on in the background.

because my son loves football. And I think it's completely an environment of me presenting it and my wife, Erica, presenting it as not only the greatest sport in the world, but also a great way to learn things about teamwork and leadership. And of course, knowing all the quarterback's names when your moment is called on national television. I love that. And I'll bet you that Mel would remember that Aaron Rogers

is the quarterback of the Green Bay Packers if you asked him. I bet you he would. The funniest thing is, so Sean and I would talk all the time, Craig, and he'd be on speakerphone, but there's a show on Netflix called Sean the Sheep. So Sean is Sean McVeigh, and then there's Sean the Sheep. So my son comes down and Sean's on speakerphone and goes, who are you talking to? And I say, Sean, and my son, in all earnestness with the speakerphone on and goes, you're talking to Sean the sheep?

I'm like, no, I'm talking to Sean McVey, the other one, dude. Second most impressive, Sean. Sean the Sheep is definitely number one. That's good. Anyway, I love the question and good luck and congratulations. I think fatherhood's pretty cool. That's great. And that's where we'll end it. We'll end it talking about my son knowing all the NFL quarterbacks. But Sean, Troy was so good. We've got a whole other episode of him talking. And the second part, which I think is really unique, is really in the weed sports media stuff about being a broadcaster. And gosh, he's got this whole other chapter of his career. I didn't realize he's been in the booth for 21 years as Fox's lead analyst. And I think it almost goes from being quarterback and Hall of Famer to legendary sports broadcaster for people going into that line of work. And I thought it was just as interesting as the football stuff. Yeah, I think sometimes the best things happen organically. We jumped on anticipating film in just one of these episodes. But the conversation flowed so smoothly. And like I talked about,

you know, just a variety of perspectives. And I think for both of us, being an expert and both of the arenas that we're just one expert or try to be one expert, I guess. You know, I'd, I don't want to say what we're trying and we're constantly striving to improve. But, you know, A, A, even though it was as a player, but the parallels between coach and player and that dialogue and then jumping into the media world and being a broadcaster and all the specifics and the things that it takes to perform at a high level in each of those arenas is similar, but a lot of differences that he gives us great insight into. He's great. And Sean, you're great. Craig, you're great. I can't wait for next episode. Part two of Troy Aikman awaits us.

But let's put a wrap on this episode. It's Flying Coach Season 2. And Sean, I say it every week. They keep getting better and better, man. I love doing this with you. Yeah. And you know what, Peter? You're pretty great yourself, buddy.

Good job again this week. Let's go.