The Ringer NFL Show - Players Primed to Make the Leap in 2022

Episode Date: August 15, 2022

Ben and Steven each pick the three players they believe are ready to take their game to another level in the 2022 season. Hosts: Ben Solak and Steven Ruiz Associate Producer: Mike Wargon Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey there, it's Ariel Hawani. One third of the fastest growing show in combat sports. I'm Chuck Mindenhol. And I'm Preeti Carroll, and together we are three-pack. Join us on the Spotify Live app after every UFC pay-per-view and become a part of the best community in mixed martial arts. Or if you can't make it, check out the Ringer MMA show podcast exclusively on Spotify. See you then. Love you.

Hello and welcome to a Monday edition of the Ringer NFL show. I am Ben Solac. I was about to say, like, as always, that's how I usually intro these things, but it turns out we're not on an as always schedule. We're on the August preseason preview schedule, which means it's rotating hosts here on the ringer NFL feed and rotating guests. I am joined today by the man Stephen Ruiz. Stephen, what's going on, buddy? Thanks. I'm happy to be here.

Thank you for inviting me onto your podcast, but... Yes, definitely. I'm a guest. This is a shot that was called by me for sure. We have been going through the NFL and kind of breaking it down from every one of thousands, a myriad of of kaleidoscope of angles as we look forward to this 2022 season, Stephen, you and I today are doing players

who are going to make the leap. Very Kevin Clark-esque podcast title here. What does Make the Leap mean? It's kind of open-end it, which is fun. You can kind of sneak some dudes in there, but in general, a make-the-leap player for me, I don't know about for you, was a player who has the ability to be much better than they are,

has the ability to have a bigger role and more talent, more production, then perhaps they've shown to this point in their career, whether it's been a long or a short career. And this is the year we expect that to happen. And in doing so, they'll kind of rise up into the national visibility, rise up in the national prominence.

So I have three names. You have three names. Want to go first? Yeah, I'll go first. I'm going to start with Gabe Davis, Bill's receiver. I'm a big Gabe Davis guy, man. Big Gabe Davis guy.

I can't get over his film. I love his film so much. And it's not just that he caught four touchdowns against the Chiefs. I know that's like been a big driving force behind the Gabe Davis discourse this offseason. But you watch that game and other games at the end of the year. And this, he can run some routes. Like he's not just like a big contested catch guy. He knows how to use his body.

He knows how to use his frame to box out cornerbacks and do so like during the route, not necessarily at the catch point, which I think is a big thing for bigger receivers. Like I don't think DK Metcalf for instance is that. type of route runner at this point in his career. I think he's more of a, I'm just big and fast and just throw the ball up to me, and I'll go and run under it. Whereas Gabe Davis,

I really think he creates separation. And he does it by leaning on smaller cornerbacks and kind of breaking away from that, from their leverage. He, I think he can change the pace of his routes at times. And then I do think he's just fast and big. And that's like a good thing to have in the NFL.

Like I've been saying all offseason, big fast players tend to beat slow. small players. And Gabe Davis... That's the analysis baby right there. That's the science. All right. If you are big and fast, you're going to beat the short and slows. Welcome to the NFL show. That's the market inefficiency. Get big fast dudes.

And I think Josh Allen trust them. And you could see that in the Chiefs game. He went to Gabe Davis in key points in that game. And some of those throws he anticipated. It wasn't like Gabe Davis was like running wide open. He threw it early and trusted Gabe Davis to be in the spot that he should

be in. And it worked out. So I'm a Gabe Davis guy and I think if he has a big year the bills probably finished first in the AFC. Yes, I think the bills are right now the favorite to win the Super Bowl. Also the favorite to come out of the AFC is the number one seed. Last year Gabe Davis had,

he played 18 games if we're including the playoffs. He did not have more than eight targets in his first 11, 12 games. And then across the course of the final six games of the season for regular season games and then two more in the playoffs. Eight targets, seven

targets three, 14 targets, three in the wild card round against New England, and then, of course, that Kansas City game that you brought up, 10 targets, eight catches, 201 yards, and four touchdowns, along with the broken and snapped ankles of, Dan, was it Dan Jackson, Levi Wallace? Whoever that poor son of a gun was on that little corner post on that touchdown that it got screen capped into oblivion. It's never really been super high volume for Gabe Davis. He has not borne what you expect to see from a wide. receiver two, especially in the past happiest team in the league, which is the Buffalo

Bills. He had 63 total targets over the regular season last year. So what is, like, is it, Davis is going to break out in the sense that like he's going to become a Will Fuller, Markesvold, a Scantling type, or like because he's big and he has speed and he was a downfield guy for them last year, like he's going to become one of those preeminent downfield dudes. Like Diggs is the target hog. Isaiah McKinsey is the Cole Beasley. He's the slot guy. Dawson, Oaks in the Red Zone. And just Gabe Davis is going to be known kind of as really good field structure for a very high powered, very downfield passing game? Or are you more

so looking at like Amardi Cooper and C.D. Lamb, right? Like we, like, you know, O'Dell Beckham Jr. and Cooper Cup, we have two legitimate top receivers here in Buffalo with Stefan and Gabe Davis. What's your expectation? I think it's the first one. I think he's going to be the guy running those big post off play action. We kind of saw it at the end of last year and I think

that's kind of what the Bill's offense is going to major in this year. It's like under-center deep shots. And Gabe Davis makes the most sense to run those routes. And I know like the production it hasn't been there, but I think there are like obvious explanations for that. He was in a crowded wide receiver room last year, which he doesn't have to worry about. Emmanuel Sanders is gone.

Cole Beasley is gone. I think when he was on the field, he got targets. It wasn't like he wasn't getting targets when he was on the field. He just didn't get enough snaps. And when the ball was going his way, they were the most productive snaps on an efficiency basis for the bills last year. They were more efficient than Stefan Diggs targets. They were more efficient than Sanders or Dawson Knox or Cole Beasley's targets.

And that was with him having a bit of a drop problem, at least by the numbers. Like when you watch his film, you're not really like, oh, his hands are a problem. But you look back over the course of the season, he had like a 10% drop rate. I think that's more of Josh Allen trusting him to make catches in traffic more than it was. This guy can't catch. And despite those drops, still, like I said, on a per target basis, he was the most efficient receiver. And he converted first downs at the highest rate for the bills. I would not be surprised if he's a pro bowler.

I don't think he's like a top 20 receiver by any means, but I think he could catch like 10 touchdowns or it doesn't touch down. And if Buffalo's throwing the ball as much under Ken Doris as they were under Brian Davel, then he's going to have the stats that go up against another guy, even if maybe that guy's more talented just because he sees more targets. Yeah, and I think he's going to get like high leverage targets in the red zone. So I think that will pat his stats.

It's funny. I'm going to change the order of my guys because my first exposure to Gabe David, was when Davis was at UCF and beat the brakes off of a Stanford corner that I thought was gonna be really good in the league, and that was Paulson Adivo.

Paulsena debo is a true sophomore at Stanford, had like an unbelievable season, tons of ball production, pick, sixes. He was an ex-receiver recruit, right? So there was like so much hype for this guy. And then he goes back for his next season and it just simply wasn't as good. He did not have as good of a year

in his junior year as he did before he was eligible as a sophomore. One of the reasons why it wasn't as good is because Stanford played UCF. And he ran in, to Gabe Davis with, it would have been McKinsey Milton, I think at this time, still throwing the ball. And they just launched the thing

on Adibeau all game long. It was just vertical, vertical, vertical, vertical, vertical. And O'Dibo had plays where he was in a good position, plays where he wasn't, and it just didn't matter. It was just a huge day for Dave Davis. So Debo falls a little bit in the draft sphere in the eyes of the league. He's drafted in the third round last season

by the New Orleans Saints. Dennis Allen, baby. And Mickey Loomis and a team that has been ludicrously good. Just absurdly good at drafting defensive players outside of the first round, to Mario Davis, Trey Hendrickson, Marcus Williams, Chauncey Garner Johnson, and just immediately developing clear starting players. Paulson Adivo last year was awesome. And he's not going to be a corner one. And so he doesn't get the run that J.C. Horn gets in Carolina, that Pat Sartan gets in

Denver, two names that I would say that aren't really break out candidates. Because even if, like, Sertan, who I know you and I both ranked his top five corners, we think he's incredible. People pretty much know who he is, and they know his name. Maybe he'll come to greater appreciation, but to me, not really like a make-the-leap sort of a guy. Paulson Adivo doesn't have that sort of name recognition. Man, you start to put this film up that he had

against, like, you know, Eric Stokes in Green Bay and Asante Samuel Jr. And in Los Angeles for the Chargers and these other, you know, young corners that are vying for attention. It's really, really rock-solid. He benefits tremendously from Dennis Allen staying with the Saints and having the opportunity to get coached by him for another year,

stay in the same system. He benefits tremendously from the press man orientation of that system. No defense in the league is like, hey, let's get our guys in the line and bully as much as this league is, as much as this defense is here in New Orleans. It's got long arms, he's got good feet, he's extremely good in the contact window. He takes away routes right away. And then because he's an ex-receiver, he has rat recognition, he has ball skills. When this Saints defense works, and it works way more often than not, it works because Lattimore's lock. up a dude on that side, and Adivo's locking up the dude on the other side, and everything else in the middle they can get away with, right? And they're going to try to get away with some more things this

year, right? That corner duo last season was protected by Malcolm Jenkins and Marcus Williams. This year, it's Marcus May and Tyron Matthew. Good? Not as good. And so you're going to ask your corners to do more inherently when your safety group isn't as good, obviously still with Tronzie Gernard Johnson there at the nickel. And so to me, if I start thinking through some of these young defenders who are really, really quality and deserve more visibility, I think we're going to earn more visibility, Paulson Adibo jumps to mind because if the Saints are good this year, and I'm not even convinced about that altogether, but a lot of people think the Saints might do another

playoff run, even with James back there. If they do, it's going to be on the back of the defense. And if the defense is successful, I think Paulson Adibo is going to get his day in the sun. So to me, for the Gabe Davis-Pals-Nadipo connection, I'll take the other side of that 2019, 2020, UCF Stanford battle, I'll take Paulson-A-D-Bo. All right, my second pick is Palson-A-D-Bo from the same. No, it's not.

Yes, it is. It is, damn it. We were so confident we were going to double one. Yeah, and we picked six players and we doubled one up. My God. But no, everything you said, I agree with. And I know, like, the Richard Sherman cop is so easy and convenient it because of Stanford, because like you said,

he was recruited as a receiver. But man, there are some reps in the Seattle game where I'm like, that looks just like Richard Sherman. Like he does like the little six inch read step that the Seahawks corners does, flips his hips, runs with the vertical. And he is very good at making

the receiver look more open than he actually is and then closing that space in an instant. I think that's one of his better attributes. I think he baited Tom Brady into an interception and it might have been the second game. I think it was the game in Tampa, but he has some really good reps against really good receivers

and receivers that are tough to cover. Like he has some good reps against Chris Godwin, who I think is a good player. He has a couple good ones against Tyler Lockett in that Seattle game where it was like, he wasn't playing early in that game. And it seemed like at some point, Dennis Allen was just like,

all right, screw this. We're going to stop playing zone. We're going to play man coverage and we're going to blitz the hell out of James. Not James, sorry. Gino. We're going to do both of those things. So let's play Paulson-Dadevo and now we can do it.

And then it worked. And it's because he could lock down Tyler Lockett and you could put Latimore on D.K. Metcalfe. And I think having Marchand-Ladamore across the field kind of helps. Oh, yeah. A Debo. Always does. But I think it's like vice versa. Because having two dudes that can play that style of coverage, as you alluded to, which is a hard style of coverage to play for a corner, allows Dennis Allen to call those plays.

Whereas you look at like the Rams. and Jalen Ramsey. Jalen Ramsey's kind of like playing against type. He's like playing off and he's playing a lot of zone in Los Angeles, mostly because the Rams don't have another corner where they could play a bunch of man covered. So I think they kind of help out each other. Adibo's presence kind of allows Latimore to play his best style of football because you can't just play press man across the board when you have one good one good corner.

Yeah. And one thing like we are enamored with in the public space, the idea of the shadow corner, right? The corner is so good a man coverage. You can go everywhere. which in reality, that list is like, all right, Jalen Ramsey, J.C. Jackson, like, in New England sometimes, with the help of having Belichick there.

Whereas that Seattle team could play left-right corner, and it is beneficial if you can get away with it to play left-right corner because of muscle memory. Like, it's just when you're doing like that six-inch readstep and you're doing that pressman style, there's so much muscle memory there that if you train both sides, which you certainly should, you're just not going to get the same amount of times

if you always have the sideline to your right. You're just going to become more comfortable. It's like, you know, the tackles of the league, left tackles, right? They always make the analogy of like it's like wiping with a different hand, right? Like, yeah, it's the same thing, but it just feels weird when you have to switch sides. So if you have an adibo who's really good in man coverage,

which he's not here yet, but if he is, you can leave Latimore on the left and you can put Adibo on the right and you don't have to move guys around. And that is to their benefit in terms of like developmentally and like the finer points of the position. And so a Debo, I agree with you, like, there's a little bit chicken and egg in terms of how much the scheme helps him. But also, if you have a corner to who can play legit man, how much it helps the scheme kind of all together. And the defense is just like a rising tide that lifts all boats.

It also helps from the other perspective, like from the quarterback reading the defense when those guys are always in the same spot. Because then you get man zone tells if you're moving those guys around and they're shadowing specific guys. Yeah. And if you're right, if you can just pass it off, it becomes a lot easier. I'm curious to see, like, you brought up the good point where like they put a deba in when they wanted to play man. And then throughout the course, the season just kind of left him in there because he was playing well. He does, it would be beneficial to him to be better in zone, but also he was a good zone corner coming out. And I think that he can be better in zone at the NFL level. So should I go to my number two now?

Is that what we should do here? Yeah, let's do that. Because I'm a host, so I know how the order of things goes. All right. Another second year player, there is a ton of excitement for second year running back, Giovante Williams, at Denver. And I just have never really gotten on that train. I think Javante is a talented player, but the hype is just too much for me. When I go and I look at backs that I'm really excited about entering year two,

I look at Ramandre Stevenson in New England. And this is an interesting one because, like, the entire New England offense might be bad. So it's kind of hard to really put your chest into like, Ramonji is going to break out because you're worried about everything in New England floundering around him to the point where he's not going to get visibility. He's not really going to make a leap because he just can't do it in that environment. But James White has officially announced that he is retiring,

the longtime third down, scat-back, past catching back for the New England Patriots is retiring. Well, who's going to take these reps? You have Pierre Strong, day three running back out of South Dakota State, who the Patriot selected. You have Damien Harris, the incumbent veteran back. And then you also have Ramandre Stevenson,

who only saw 17 targets last year, but had 14 catches, 123 yards. He only ran 80 routes altogether. He was 1.54 yards per route run with a negative depth of target. He was doing a ton after the catch. He averaged over 10%. 10 yards after the catch per reception.

Now, a lot of that is because he was used as a screen target. But that's okay. Like, if you're really good on screens, you're going to warrant more receiving touches in general. And it's something Romandre has said he's worked a lot on in this past off season. When you look at training camp reports, you see that Ramandre is taking third down snaps, right? Without James White at all playing in training camp,

the Patriots have put both Ramondre and Damien Harris in on third down. So I think Ramonadre has the opportunity to do more as a receiver, all together with James Light gone. then you look at the running game and the Patriots are rather controversially making this change to zone running. They were a power man gap blocking team last year. And it's funny because when Ramandre was at Oklahoma,

that's what they're doing. They were doing gap and they were doing man stuff. And when you have this 235 pound back, which is what he was in it when he was at Oklahoma and he was listed like 230, 2.35 in his first year in New England, you're just thinking, right, it's a gap back. It's a power back. He's going to put his foot in the ground one step and go.

And then you watch Ramondre play. and he's got the sweetest freaking feet, man. Like, it's just, he's a very, we always talk about, like, do the skills match the traits? Like, does the way he play match the physical tools that he has? And Ramandre is, like, a little bit dissonant in that regard. He doesn't put his chest down and finish runs the way you'd expect for a big back to do. He likes to make people miss, which is weird when you're that size,

but he makes it work because he's got great intuition, great feel, really nice vision. And, like, yeah, you'd love to get those traits into, like, a 200 to 5-5-pound. burstier back. But at the same time, it works for him. He's able to get through the narrow gaps. He's able to manipulate linebackers. He showed that Oklahoma, and he showed that in his first year in New England.

So I think a move to zone blocking benefits Remandre over Damien Harris, who's also like a smart and efficient runner, but to me has just always been a little bit better in that gap power world and just doesn't have the same juice that Ramondry does holding the football. So to me, when I look at the best back in New England's backfield, I see Ramadre Stevenson.

I see that over Damien Harris. I know James White is gone. I think they're moving to a backfield or running game that orientes itself to his skill set. And finally, her report says it was like two days ago, the Patriots were taking calls on Damien Harris. They're not actively trying to move him

and yada, yada, whatever, but it was enough juice that I saw, you know, here's hypothetical trade for the Eagles to send to Damian Harris fan account tweets, which to me is like the barometer for like, okay, there's definitely some actual trade hype around this guy. So if the Patriots are willing to take those calls on Harris, to me that speaks the level of confidence

that they have in Ramondre, a player who was always better than his fourth round drafts ranking had him because he was a fourth round pick had some, you know, off the field stuff in college with a little bit more of a risk, goes to New England, has a great first season. So to me, you can keep your Giovante height. I think that Melvin Gordon is the better back in that backfield.

If I'm looking for exciting young breakout running back, I'm looking to New England and Ramadre Stevenson. I kind of like those big backs in like the zone schemes. I don't know much about the run game. When it comes to run game or like evaluating running backs, I don't know ball. but those big backs and those one-cut

systems always always work like Derek Henry obviously the Titans run a lot of duo but they do run a... Yeah, it's the Jaya Jai Aryan Foster theorem where it's just like, man, if you can get a back large enough

to be smart enough in this game and now linebackers are coming to tackle him moving horizontally while he's moving vertically, he's going to win that exchange and it's going to be a punishing exchange time and time and time again. They're going to run through those arm tackles.

And like you said, Ramaj is just a terror tackle. Like I would, I would not want to tackle him. And it's not like, it's not just him barreling you over. It's just like it's annoying as hell to like get square. It's hard to square him up and tackle and get a good hit on him. He changes his angles. He gets like skinny. He's, she's got a cool skill set, man. Yeah, I think, yeah, if he has a big year, he kind of has to have a big year, right, for the Patriots for this to work, for this offense to work. Like the back needs to be involved. And I think the screen game has to be good. And if it does it, I don't know.

though I don't have much hope for the Patriots offense this year if he doesn't have a big year. I also have a running back. All right. Um, Dobbins. No, no, I don't have Dobbins. I have, uh, he was a former first round pick. He was good.

He was like elite for six games last year. It's Rashad Penny. Rashad Penny. Oh, great one. Great one. Who I think, based on film, not on production,

what he's done. I think there are two clear, there's one tier at the top of the running back hierarchy, and that is, for me, at least, Nick Chubb and Jonathan Taylor. Agreed. And I would argue that talent-wise, Rashad Penny is number three if he continues what he did last year. Because the film is amazing.

He moves differently than everyone else on the field with that big body, and it's different. Who else is in tier two for you? In terms of talent. In terms of talent, I would put like Dalvin Cook is in there, obviously. McCaffrey? McCaffrey, obviously. Henry? Yes, Henry.

Yeah, all those guys. I'm putting them in that group. And I think he... Wow. And I'm really putting him on this list because I think that the Seahawks offense is going to be better

than people think it's going to be because of the run game. And he loves mid-zone. He loves the under-center stuff too. Mid-Zone is fake, as we've discussed many times off air. It's fake, but not if you're Sean McVeigh. Sean McVeigh believes it

and all his friends believe in it. So to them, it's real to them, damn it. But he was to tell you. talking about how much he loves, like running those zone plays from under center earlier in the off season. And they're going to do more of that because Russ is gone.

You don't need to call shotgun as much. So I think this offense, like they're losing their quarterback, the best player on it. But I think this offense is going to be better. It's going to be a net positive. And they're going to really be able to build the offense around Rashad Penny. Now the question is,

does he stay healthy? Is he that back we saw for six games last year at the end of the year? and if he is, I'm predicting like the 15th offense ranked in DVOA. Above average, objectively speaking, Seattle Seahawks offense, baby. That's right. Let's get, okay.

And they're ranked 14th and the Broncos are ranked like 11th. And then we just get some unbelievable Seahawks Twitter, just total dissolution if that's the case. I cannot wait for that week one game, man. That is the game. Yeah.

There's sometimes with the NFL schedule something I'm like, that's very on the nose. You need to relax. Week 1 Monday night football in Seattle, Denver, CX. I'm like,

okay, that's fine. I'm okay with that. It's extremely on the nose, but it's going to be great. Yeah, I'm there. It's going to be the weirdest game ever. Imagine already having a bet on that game.

Could not be me. Anyway. Wait, wait, wait, wait, no, no, we're not moving on after that. Who did you bet on?

Seahawks Money Line. Oh, man. That's a good bet. I think it was like plus $1.50, plus $15, something like that. I can go find it in a sec. That's the problem with hosting. can't do all the Googling that I usually like to do during podcast because I have to

talk and be ready for the next thing. All right, Rashad Penny, I actually love that one. I wish I'd, if I had thought of Rashad Penny, I don't think you would have made it on my list, but he definitely would have been like a fun little honorable mention.

My final guy is actually kind of similar in terms of career arc where it's not like he's been drafted in the last couple years, but he was a very high caliber athlete, probably drafted a little bit earlier than he should have been, also an end of the first round pick. Everybody, every year has been ready for the breakout and for injuries or other reasons it hasn't come, but low-key, very quietly, I think he's becoming what he's supposed to be. And that's Brown's tied on David Injoku. The whole book on Injoku coming out of

Miami was that he's a great receiver and he's a great athlete, good hands, he can run down the field. Obviously, he's not going to be a great blocker for you, but whatever, it's worth it. The receiving talent really never manifested itself the way you wanted it to. He had one really quality season in like 2019, I want to say, right? He had that incredible year. It might have been 2020. But then other than that, just like up and down, he's been off the field a little bit.

Receiving talent didn't really translate. Very quietly, while all that has been going on, like fantasy guys are disappointed. This is not what they hoped you would be. The blocking has just gone incrementally better and incrementally better and incrementally better. I remember watching the Brown's Chiefs game

early in the year last year. And she'd be like, you've got to be, when did David and Joku start doing this? Where it's just like, he can actually seal an edge. He can actually get on the hoof and block a guy on the second level.

I'm not here to tell you he's, Nick Boyle, but he is a functional blocking tight end in an offense that puts multiple tight ends on the field with the intent to run the football. And for as much as the Brown's pull dudes, because like we all came in being like, you know, Kevin Sofansky's zone, zone, zone, zone, zone. They pull a lot of guys. And Joku's very important to that because he's so good on the huff. He's so good at blocking when he gets out of the second level. He can like target, track a guy get to his hip and actually carry him. They let Austin Hooper walk, which like, duh, they let Austin Cooper walk.

But they let Austin Hooper walk and then gave Injoku a four. year 56.75 million dollar extension, which very simply like, we shouldn't say a player is good because the team is paying him, but when a team pays a guy that much, especially at tight end, they are telling you they're going to use him. And in terms of efficiency,

in Joe Code, one of his best seasons last year, he had 13.2 yards per reception. It was 1.56 yards per route run, which was 11th among tight ends. It's like, he's in the, like, it's Travis Kelsey 8, Darren Waller 9, Dan Arnold, 10, Noah Fant 12, Hunter Hunter 13, T.J. Hawkinson, Zachary, it's 14,

Doughton Schultz 15. He's not Mark Andrews. He's not like actually Kelsey or Kittle or whatever. But when we start to get to like tier two and two, three of receiving tight ends, which like tight ends is not that deep

of a position where like it really matters that much if you have a tier two or two or three tight end. But he is there. Like no, he didn't hit like a first round tight end like crazy like he's taking over league. He's not like what we expect Kyle Pitts to be. But in Jokko's a good tight end.

He's a good NFL tight end who can do both things on the field. And now there's no other. He's going to be on the field. for every single freaking snap for the Browns. Because they live with tight ends on the field. Behind him is like Harrison Bryant and some other dude. They are going to constantly play in Joku. He is important to the running game.

And he was an efficient pass catcher last year when he received targets. We don't really know what the Brown's quarterback situation is going to be in terms of how many games Deshaun Watson's going to play, but Jacoby Resett's going to play. But if Injoku gets high volume, he's going to look like one of the best receiving tight ends in the league who could also hang around and block.

David and Joku, baby. we knew it all along. We just took us like five years to get there. Yeah, I think he's not like a, he's not a third down tight end. He's not like a guy where you're like going to draw up a play for him to get a first down, like Darren Wallin, for instance.

But first and second down, the player you're describing, the tight end you're describing, I think is one of the more useful tight ends in the league in those situations. It almost helps them that his reputation as a receiver has kind of fallen off over the course of the year because now teams are matching up

with him like he's a blocker. They're got, you have to play base team. defense against the Browns, no matter what. It doesn't matter. So now you can draw up plays where he's, he could just use his athleticism rather than his round running know-how and just beat a linebacker downfield. And that's all the Browns need him to do with that type of offense. They don't need him to line out, like isolate on the backside of trips and beat a safety in coverage. They don't need that. Right. So he, I agree. He took over 50%

of his snaps in line, right? Which you're like, okay, yeah, he's a tight end. But really, that's like less than half of the tight ends in the league actually take a majority of their snaps in line. And when you read through the names, right, like, I'm going to go from most inline snaps down, Tyler Conklin, Farrow, Jeff Swame, Albert O., Noah Fants, there you go. Foster Moreau, Durham, Smith, Pat Fryman, Jordan Aikins, Ryan Griffin, George Kittle, Adam Troutman, Austin Hooper, Gronk, C.J. Uzoma, you're taking a joke over all these dudes, right, in terms of, like, definitely the receiving ability. And then I think blocking wise, yeah, is he like, again, is he Nick Boyle? No, but he's good. And so when you start to look at, like, traditional

wise due to line up attached to the tackle. And Joku's one of the better ones in the league in an offense that desperately needs that role. And so maybe I don't know, maybe he won't break out because fantasy owners hate him by this point. And like he never was what they wanted him to be. So like making the leak doesn't count in terms of like the national discourse, like the public eye.

But Injoku's a lot better of a player than I thought he was. And I wanted to get him in in this conversation. And I feel like the pendulum has kind of swung back to the guys that can block a little. Like there was a time where we were like, oh, we want mismatch tight ends. We want guys that are basically receivers. Like Mike Dosecchi, for instance. Now, like, teams are matching

those personnel groupings with nickel or dime. So it doesn't really matter. You kind of lose the advantage that's built in to having a tight end like that. And I think in Joku, and tight ends that you listed, like, that can play, attach to the offense align. I think

that's the way to go now. You need that tight end. The blocking is almost more valuable now than the receiving. At least, I think it's it's gotten back to where it's at least closer to even. I don't know. Reject modernity. Embrace tradition.

Block with your tight ends. Well, the thing is this is like, I think we were like, yo, matchup tight ends are incredible. And then all it took was defense as being like, yeah,

we're not going to treat that dude like a tight end, right? Like the Dolphins led the league and 12 personnel last year. Nobody was matching that jaw on base because they knew what Gisik was. So all it took was like defense being like, okay, we know what that guy is to solve that.

Now it's like, all right, you just needed a matchup dude. you need a guy in a spot where he's not usually and he can work from there so it's to cause problems. About big dudes, we're talking about power slots a lot.

We're talking about wide receivers in the backfield. We're talking about running backs in the slot, right? You just need to be able to move guys. That's all well and good. You also, like, you know, when it comes to like, you know, third and five, you want a one-on-one route running winner at wide receiver. It doesn't matter where he is.

You still need a guy who has the talent. And when it comes to the tight end, like, yeah, guys, you can flex on the slot, flex out wide. Sick, great, awesome. At some point, you need to run, power. You can't run power without a why, baby. Like, I'm like, college teams are, but it's very difficult to run power

without a sixth blocker attached to the line who could do his job. And so this is where your, your value for a player like David and Joku comes into the building. Do you know who ruined the mismatch tight end for everyone? The 2017 Eagles and Zach Hertz. That was just the end. They were like, okay, we're not going to treat these guys like tight ends

anymore. It's enough. We're not treating these guys like tight ends. Yeah. Do you want to know who ruined 12 personnel for everybody? 2018 after the draft Dallas got her and it was like

the Eagles are playing 12 personnel everybody should do this forever and listen I did also write one of those pieces it just again

turns out all it takes NFL defense being like oh we get it and then making one change and then you're fine

all only football were that easy uh Stephen you have an honorable mentions list you have extra guys you listed

that you wanted to get out no I did the bare minimum I mean like they're obvious guys like the quarterbacks Trevor Lawrence obviously is one of those guys

like Devante's I think it's going to have a big year. Just the names that you already know. I do the bare minimum. Yeah, no, I hear you. I also was like, should I talk about Trevor Lawrence? I was like, you know what? Probably not, because I'm going to talk about Trevor Lawrence at some point.

And this is the podcast where you get the guys in that you're not sure going to be able to talk about otherwise. This has been, Megan Leap candidates then with Ben and Stephen, a list that we will certainly circle back to when, like, Romandre Stevenson makes one good play in weekend. Like, we told you. And then we just don't mention the other players we've. brought up because they are exactly the same as they were. You will forget that. We will remember and we will be justified. Thank you as always to our production team with their help on this episode. That's Mike Wargan in the booth with Arjuna Ramkopol and Connor Nevins in the background and their additional production supervision. This has been the Ringer NFL show. We are coming to you

five days a week. We're doing it all of August. We are setting up our in-season plans, which will be announced. I don't know when my boss tells me it's time to announce them. I'm not the one who makes that call. We'll talk to you tomorrow.