The Ringer NFL Show - Quarter-Season Awards: MVP, Rookie of the Year, and More

Episode Date: October 7, 2021

Nora and Mal give out some awards after the first month of the season. They hand out MVP, Rookie of the Year, a listener-chosen award, and much more (2:45). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Mallory Rubin Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? I'm JJ John Gstromski. And I'm Jason Gough, and if you haven't heard, the ringer has gone local. I'm bringing the fire. I'm bringing the rain from the Big Apple with my show, New York, New York. And I'm reping Shy Town with my new show The Full Go on All Things Chicago. We've got episodes three nights a week with all the reaction to the local teams and guests. Plus bonus episodes around all the big games and storylines.

So whether you're uptown, downtown, downtown, in the burbs, or a transplant. Make sure you follow New York, New York, and the full go on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Hello and welcome to the Thursday edition of the Ringer NFL show. I am Nora Pintziotti. I am here with Mallory Rubin. Mallory, how goes it? Hello. Hi.

Can't believe we're a quarter of the way through this NFL season. Where's the time gone? So I was going to try to get through this podcast without bringing this up because it couldn't possibly matter less. But one of, I can't decide if it's a perk or a negative to the 17 game schedule. We are not technically a quarter of the way through the season. We'll be a quarter of the way through the season, I guess, a quarter into, well, now, here's the problem. I was going to say a quarter into the early games in week five, but that's not really yet, right?

So it's probably somewhere, somewhere on average in the second quarter of the early slate, right? probably puts us a quarter of the way through all of the NFL regular season game content that we get in this tough time to record a podcast and so we're doing it now instead. This is our quarter way mark. The benefit is that we don't have to hear people say do the thing where somebody talks about reaching the quarter pole

and then somebody corrects everyone and says, The quarter pole is actually when you have a quarter of the way to go. Like, let's never do it. that again. That was always stupid. All right. Let's do a podcast. Great energy quarter season awards. Because we can. Because we're in charge. Because this is our ship. And we are steering it into awards at this particular juncture.

We're going to do some of the normal awards that will actually be handed out at the end of the season like MVP, Ricky of the year. But we decided that again, this is our podcast. We are the captain now. And we made up some of our own awards. We also got a really good listener submission award that I'm pumped to talk about. And I think it's very funny. So come on this journey with us. But we are going to start with one of the awards that actually will be handed out at the end of the season, which is the most valuable player award. Mm-hmm.

Let's cut to the chase, Mallory. Okay. Who is your MVP through this? approximately first quarter of the season. I hope you feel compelled to issue that caveat. I'm going to say approximately every single time. Let's just spoil this right from the jump here. This is the only award today where we have the same pick.

We have different picks the rest of the way, but here we are both going with Kyler Murray, quarterback of the Arizona Cardinals. Ever heard of them? Mal tried to give this award to Cliff Kingsbury, but I argued that that was disqualifying. Not disqualifying for Cliff on the basis of being a coach and not a player, but disqualifying for Mallory as being an ongoing part of this podcast.

Listen, I am a mere conduit. Cliff is the one out there making Ted Lasso comps, you know? I'm just going with the flow of content. Aye, aye, aye. Well, okay. If Cliff is Ted Lasso, then I'm not sure there's a player comp for Richmond that would encapsulate all that Kyler Murray has done up to this point in the season. I think the big question here, right, is he's clearly been the best player on the field,

I think, through four weeks. That to me is sort of undeniable. I mean, they're the only undefeated team, but Kyler himself, his complete percentage above expectation is 9.2. It's the best in the NFL. So it's kind of like you can look at the team success, which is a big part of this award. They're all narrative awards.

But you can separate it out and say like, okay, he is clearly doing more. The deep passing is just absurd. The scrambles are highlight real stuff. I mean, he is just escapable beyond belief. I think the technical term for what Kyler Murray has done so far is like on one. It's just ridiculous. the bigger question to me here is like of what we've seen so far, are there signs of impending regression?

Or are there things where it's like he could fall off the way that the Cardinals who got off to a hot start last season and then didn't keep it up? Could that happen again? Do you think that what Kyler has done so far, are we going to see that through the end of the year? It's a good question. I am more interested now in talking about how you just said, the technical term is on one, which is definitely the oldest you've ever sounded on a podcast or

potentially in your entire life. But I'll stick with the prompt and just carry that one with me. Moving forward. I will tell you, Val, anytime I listen to Jam Session and Juliet and Amanda are like, like talking about something that they like and they're like, no one who's younger than us likes this, I always am into it. It's always a thing that I absolutely love. No, no, I mean. I I mean, that's like, I guess so. But I'm always like, is this just a me thing or is this representative of it? Anyway. Well, I don't think it's just a you thing, right, to think that Kyler is the MVP, as you said.

This is probably the closest thing to consensus that we have in the NFL right now, in part because of the team start. I think that the point you made is really astute. Whether it's MVP or any other award or really any other debate or consideration, set inside of the NFL, you can always find the data point, especially in the advanced analytics era, to suit your argument. But right now with Kyler, every single bucket, every sliver of the argument is in his favor right now, whether it's the actual stats, whether it's the narrative, whether it's anything else, right? The 4-0 mark that you noted, you know, last and defeated team, it's also, they're in the best division in football. So that kind of

start really matters. They're also, they're not just beating cupcakes. Like, they're coming off a hugely impressive win over the Rams. The upcoming schedule has some light spots to the question about regression and how sustainable this is, but it is tough overall. Big stretch, big test coming. I think the Cardinals, you know, the fact that they have generated the top offense in the league through the first four weeks. You know, tops in both total offense, scoring offense. Their fifth in PFF's power rankings right now. And more importantly, of course,

second in Danny Kelly's power rankings here on The Ringer.com. Woo, woo. They have an 86% chance of making the playoffs right now. Kyler Murray sparking the Cardinals to a division title or even a wild card birth in a playoff run is the kind of MVP narrative that really does carry, weight that people just love.

And right now, he's the odds on favorite. So can there be a midseason dip? Of course, I mean, you know, I'm old enough to remember last season when this happened, right? When it seemed like there was a same. Okay, it's Russ's year. This is clearly going to happen.

Nothing can disrupt this. Like things change all the time. It's a long season, longer than ever, right? But Kyler, the things that we have seen from him are so impressive that they do feel sustainable ultimately. You know, he's greeting out right now as PFF's third, third ranked QB through four weeks, 87.6th grade. Behind only Brady and weirdly Tannahill.

He's just a hair ahead of Herbert, who I also considered, actually, for the MVP pick. I think he's kind of in the top five mix right now, which is pretty interesting. We're going to talk about the Chargers more a little bit. A hair ahead of Justin Herbert is a lot of hair. I'm sorry. Great stuff. No, don't apologize. Please.

That was wonderful. I'm sorry, we're off for real. I love it. I love it. That completion percentage, 76.1% tops in the league among starting QBs.

He's boasting right now a stronger turnover-worthy play rate than Mahomes, then Josh Allen, then Aaron Rogers, then Lamar, and a lot of the other top quarterbacks in the league.

his big time throw rate is 9.4% this season. That's double his mark from last year. So when you talk about year over year progress and notable metrics, that's one that I think is pretty telling. And he's actually first among quarterbacks right now in that metric, among passers who have started every game this season. Like Justin Fields, Jordan Love are the only quarterbacks with a higher mark according to PFF right now.

So he's found that flow with Kingsbury's offense and the play calling. He's grooving with his receivers. you know, AJ Green is getting going now too. He just seems totally in command of the offense, of his reeds, of the pocket presence, when it's time to break out of the pocket for a little bit of that Murray magic. This is his make-the-leap year. And the thing is, he's making the leap from what was already a very lofty perch, right? He had already shown so many flashes of brilliance since joining the NFL.

You know, we discussed in our quarterback commitment index a couple weeks ago that the question was not ever really whether Kyler Murray could be. be an elite quarterback. It was whether that marriage between Kyler and Cliff and the scheme that Cliff was deploying around his quarterback would, whether they would be able to find that synchronicity and that effective harmony. But Kyler Murray has gone from what was already must watch television into like franchise altering star. We're talking about degrees of relative excellence. But that's actually what the MVP conversation often is, right? When you make the jump from one degree of excellence into the next. And I think that that's where he is right now.

Right. He's being supported by the total package because, as you said, the offense is absolutely clicking. I mean, I did do a little bit of digging for, you know, just trying to poke holes in the argument. The only thing I really came up with was that his receivers right now are dropping a league low. 0.7% of his passes. So there could be some volatility there. And if he doesn't get that kind of performance from the guys around him, that could drop off a little bit. But that shouldn't make a huge, huge difference. If only Lamar Jackson could say the same thing, you know. Dare to dream. Sorry, Mal.

Seems great. Well, hey, you've got that 100-yard rushing street. No matter what, you'll always have that. You know what? I feel great about that. I do. Tension. Tension between the Broncos and the Ravens.

I don't know how that plays in your household. Yeah, it was a tough weekend. You know, husband's a Broncos fan. It just really tested the limits of how far away from each other we could slide while still being on the same couch and in the same room. Yeah, we reached the limits. It was great. I think like with Kyler, it's less a question to me right now of whether he can sustain

his performance and more of whether everybody else who's in the mix is going to surge, right? Like, is he ultimately going to be able to outperform and outlast? I'm slipping back into our survivor parlance from last week. Mahomes, Alan, Brady, et cetera. Like, who knows? But the spirit of this podcasting exercise, Nora, isn't really to prognatial. and look ahead. If we're, if we're, if we're, if we're handing this out right now, our almost quarterish kind of sort of quarterish way awards, it's Kyler. It's Kyler. It's

totally Kyler. It's totally Kyler. Oh, wow. I'm going to do that a lot. How many cups of coffee have you had today? Just one single. Also, Mal, tell me the truth. How many shots of espresso were in it? Literally one single cup of coffee. But tell me the truth. Did you get that reference? Did you get that Amanda show reference. I did not. That's okay. I did not. I would love for you to explain it to me.

There's a recurring bit on the critically acclaimed series, the Amanda show, called Totally Kyle, where. I see. I see. Okay. Drake Bell of Drake and Josh fame, who actually I think has had some unsavory news revolving him lately, so that's a bummer. plays the aforementioned Kyle.

Anyway, Kyler's been great. The cards have been great. If we were handing it out now, yeah, I mean, 23% completion percentage above expectation on deep balls. Like, the highlight reel is there. Even if he doesn't outperform, i.e. Patrick Mahomes, the entire season, I think the novelty of a player who hasn't won the award for, who's sort of been anointed as like, this is the next guy,

but hasn't quite done it yet. Like that should carry him if he at least approximates this kind of thing for the remainder of the season. Also, in a really tough division, but according to PFF, he has the third easiest remaining strength of schedule of opposing past defenses. And Mahomes actually has the second hardest. So Kyler's awesome. He is our MVP.

Congratulations, Kyler Murray. All right. Let's move on to rookie of the year. And I chose a quarterback here. So I'm going to allow myself to go first, Mallory, if that is a good with you. Yeah. It's a quarterback league. So I chose Justin Fields, who the Bears named starter on Wednesday, even after

Madagie said like a hundred times that Andy Dalton was going to be the starter as soon as he was healthy. He said that as late as as as recently as Monday, even after seeing Fields perform much better than he had. in limited action up to that point with Bill Laser being made the play caller. This obviously requires a lot of projection, right? But I'm relying on, okay, it's always easiest for quarterbacks to win these awards. Fields looked very good in the first start that he made with Laser calling the plays. And I'm betting that he has a solid chance of sustaining that just because there was a very obvious reason why he looked so much better. we know that the bear's offensive line is an issue.

The way that Matt Nagy was trying to solve for that was by calling just a ton of quick game, which doesn't really play to fields of strengths. It doesn't play to his strengths and being able to decide when to hold the ball as a runner. It also doesn't play to his strengths, particularly as a really, really good, accurate deep passer. What Bill Laser decided to do

was instead of relying on quick game to use more pass protectors. So he sent fewer receipts, receivers out on routes, had more, you know, tight ends chipping, extra alignment, did a lot of that stuff. It worked really well because the downside of that, right, is that you're going to have to throw into tighter windows deep down the field because you're going to have receivers who don't have as many guys deep down the field to take away players in the secondary. That's okay with, with Justin Fields because he's a really, really, really accurate passer into

deep, tight windows. Right. What he can't do is do it when they're, There's just guys in his face and everything's a disaster and everything's getting blown up at the line of scrimmage. So using those extra past protectors allows him to be able to do what he's good at. So when you see, you know, you see a big change like that. You want to know, like, will they be able to do it again? I think that that's a fairly sustainable thing.

Now, with any rookie, particularly a rookie who doesn't have a great situation around him, there's going to be ups and downs. but Fields' main competition, if we're talking about the quarterbacks, I think to this point would be Mack Jones. Now, Mac Jones, I think, has looked really solid, really consistent, really reliable. I mean, he practically went toe to toe with Tom Brady the other night. But he's still only averaging 253 yards per game and 18 points per game. And if you just dink and dunk like that, I'm sort of betting that at a certain point, people will get bored with the thing that's happening where like every Patriots game ends and a bunch of people

are like, wow, Mac Jones, really impressive, really solid, like, really consistent development out there. The Patriots scored 17 points and they lost. Like, at a certain point, I just don't think that somebody wants, like, people want to hand that guy a trophy. And Fields, even if the actual ultimate results aren't necessarily better, the highlight reel will be better because, like, Mac Jones is just going to sort of like dink and dunk eight yards at a time. And Fields is going to throw some like, holy crap, there's 10 guys in the entire NFL who can do that passes. And he's also going to do some crazy stuff with his legs with his 4-4 speed. So I'm betting a lot on projection here, but it's really good to be exciting when we're talking

about end of year awards. And Justin Fields is sure exciting. He is. He is. I love it. I'm going to take a different approach here, though I respect yours. Thank you. You're looking ahead.

You much like a franchise quarterback, have that anticipatory instinct, you know? I'm living in the moment, okay? And in part because this is so often a quarterback award. I really wanted to capitalize on a moment where one month in, four games in, we have a chance to give this to a non-quarterback. And so I am going with Bengals rookie wide out Jamar Chase. To be clear, not necessarily my pick for the entire season, though I wouldn't rule it out.

You know, I do think the safer bet ultimately is that this will wind up being a quarterback. And I think of the quarterbacks, I would also be inclined to pick fields now that the job is his. My pick to this point for quarterbacks would have been back for what it's worth. And I'll just throw out here that Micah Parsons is my defensive rookie of the quarter year. But he was so annoying on hard knocks, but he's so good. You didn't like the Connect 4 and chest scenes? That was, that was nice. I just, that type of, that type of sort of like extreme arrogance, I think plays incredibly

well for NFL players who play defense. It does not play well on screen when your audience is yours truly. But you know what? I support Michael Parsons. I'd rather the Cowboys defense be good than bad. Sure. I support Michael Parsons. Indeed.

Indeed. I just, I found the constant need for sustenance for snacks. So compelling on TV. Relatable. Absolutely. So for the Quarter-Way Awards, the quarter-ish way awards, for the best rookie showing through the first four games,

I'm going with Chase. And, you know, so did the NFL, sort of, for what it's worth. Chase was the league's NFL rookie of the month for September. That was after three games. But even so. you know, a data point. The preseason concerns about his drops, which we actually talked about in our week one rookie watch,

seem not even like a distant memory, but like another life. Like another life. It has just receded in full from viewer consideration, which is delightful. I'm thrilled. He has been a factor and a key factor in every single game this season. He's already racked up four receiving touchdowns,

including one and three of, four games. So far, he's delivered his first 100-yard receiving game in his NFL debut. He's averaging 17.5 yards per reception. That Chase Joe Burrow connection, the college teammates

who are back together in the NFL, has been remarkable. They found that chemistry and that rhythm in week one right away again. Every skill, every trait, every potentially really special,

this guy can become a top 10, top five receiver in the NFL skill that Chase possessed, heading into the draft, the physicality, the dominance at the point of a contested catch, the ball tracking ability, that burst, the versatility across the field, all of it has been on display through the first quarter-ish of the season. He has been sensational. So that's my pick. But my question for you is, do you think? think that there's a chance, a non-quarterback could actually win rookie of the year this season,

you know, just despite, despite you picking fields, more broadly, do you think it's possible, given what a slow start we've seen from the rookie QB class overall? Yeah, totally. I mean, look, it's easiest to win any of these things if you're a quarterback. It's easiest to basically do anything that involves sort of notoriety and claim in the NFL if you're a quarterback. But rookie of the year is not like MVP. Like, MVP is a quarterback award.

Rookie of the year, that goes to position players all the time. The other thing that I would say for Chase, two entities of, like, social media departments to produce highlight real things. Like, you're going to get stuff from LSU, right? And you're going to get stuff from the Bengals. They can kind of tag team it, build some momentum here. I like the pick, Mel. You had that Bolitnikov season, just highlight after highlight, just waiting to resurface. I love it.

Go, Taigas. Football wouldn't be the game we know and love without. a few surprises. So we're going to move on to our next category, which is the most surprisingly great team so far this season. So that could be a team with low expectations that's exceeded them drastically or it could be a team that, you know, we were wondering if they were going to make the leap and we really have, which is I think where you're going with this, Mel. So will you kick it off for me? I'd be delighted to my pick. For the surprisingly great team, the first quarter of this NFL season.

Los Angeles Chargers. Ooh. What a joy it's been to watch the Chargers play football this season. And not in the typical, huh, did you see the end of the Chargers game kind of way? First place in the AFC West, right off to a 3 in 1 start, including a 2-0 division mark, notable. Their only loss so far is a three-point defeat

to a Cowboys team that I think we would agree looks like a Super Bowl contender so far. So that is certainly not a bad loss. Chargers also have two really key victories already over the Chiefs and over the Raiders. How have they gotten there? Well, a few different things to quickly highlight. Justin Herbert, we talked about him a little bit already today, has emerged as one of the best quarterbacks in the league.

His adjusted completion percentage right now is 81.6%. He is throwing such a crisp, sharp ball right now, and it's not to be. just Herbert. Austin Eccler has been absolutely sensational this season. Derwin James, Joey Bosa, two of the best defenders in football. And them and all of the other players on the Chargers seem to really love playing for their new coach, Brandon Stanley, and who can blame them because he is currently undergoing a curse-breaking Chargers debut campaign. He's been aggressive and decisive in his decision-making, not only with how he's deploying his defensive schemes, but with his key offensive calls laid in games.

He's trusting in the analytics. He's trusting in the team prep and it is working. And overall, that's a big part of why whether this holds or not the rest of the way. The Chargers have been one of the great surprises of the early going here. They're finding ways to win games that they used to lose, that they normally would have lost. And not only normally would have lost, but normally would have lost in some sort of heartbreaking, confounding last minute fashion. Now instead, the last minute fashion is hinging on bold fourth down calls, which we saw in both the Kansas City and Raiders games that have led to these really crucial victories.

They've been really, really impressive. I don't know if you saw this, but there was a video that made the rounds online the other day of Staley talking about basically whether or not you need the run to be effective on play action. And he was saying, analytically, you don't. statistically to make play action work, you do not need a solid run game. That's not what it's about. But the physicality that you require from an opposing defense, when you are effective in the run game, that's really valuable.

And first of all, I think that's a smart sound way to talk about one of the ongoing debates in football. Second of all, I don't know if you felt this way, but he was so commanding when he was talking about it. I was staring onto my Twitter screen, just like transfixed by his words. and his tone. And I just had one of those moments where I was like, this is, this is a leader.

This is a leader of men right here. This is, I had a real, wow, I believe in Brandon's daily moment there. And yeah, I think he's got them playing super well. One of the, we've talked about some of the aggressive fourth down decision making, which tends to be sort of characteristic of an offensive-minded head coach. That's really cool to see from a guy who,

made his career on defense. Yep. You can still see, though, that defensive acumen in how schematically sound they are. Because they actually, on an individual level, Bost is playing out of his mind. That's sort of to be expected. Derwin James is obviously fantastic. They haven't all across the board gotten individually phenomenal performances from their defensive players, particularly along the defensive interior.

I think they've struggled a little bit. But he's able to so effectively limit big plays with just how they play on defense that they're going to be really good. They're going to be really good matchups for some of the most high-powered offenses in football, and particularly in their division, right? They are the team that has given the chiefs the most trouble. And obviously, that's continued this season. Then you see, you know, Asante Samuel Jr. has been fantastic. Slater has been fantastic. Corey Lindley, fantastic.

Their offseason additions through the draft and through free agency have really, really helped them. And then you get into Herbert, who just the technical term, Mallory, on one is what I would say. The only ongoing chargersiness that I want to point out here, they do need better special teams. I believe they have the 31st ranked special teams by DVOA right now. And that is something that has reared its ugly head in Los Angeles before. And I would love to see them get that out of the way. It's not something that's going to sink a team this good.

But it's just a little bit the ghost of Chargers teams passed. Yes. And I would love to see them work on that. Just so we don't have to think about it, just so we don't have to talk about it. The Ghost of Chargers teams fast is a great way of putting it because, you know, we mentioned already the key fourth down calls in the fourth quarter against both the chiefs. and that was in the final minute-ish of play. And the Raiders, which was under the 10-minute mark.

But if we look at that sequence against KC, convert, score the touchdown. And then what happened? They missed the extra point. And there was this seesaw of, oh, we're breaking through. Oh, are we back again? And that specter of doom, right, which just felt ever-present. But then they won the game. And so you feel like you're chipping away.

Call after call, play after play, week after week. our colleague, Kaelin Jones, wrote a really great piece this week that you can read on the ringer.com on staley, on the way that this team is jelling. And there were so many interesting quotes in their firm players that get back to what you were saying about, just that kind of presence that you felt up through your screen, just total confidence in what they're trying to do. And so when you ask, okay, well, impressive to be able to establish that kind of vibe and aura around not only 18, but this team in particular so quickly, can they hold on? Well, it's not an easy near-term slate, right? They've got Cleveland, home, and Baltimore

Road, the next two weeks, and then a buy. But after that, things change a little bit. They only have the 20th toughest remaining strength of schedule. And that's after what they've already done with the third toughest stretch to open the season. They have a chance to keep this up. Really impressive start for the Chargers. We'll see how the rest of the season goes, but I agree with you. It feels sustainable. It feels really promising. We knew this was a good team, but they've been really, really good so far.

Since we're talking about all things surprisingly great, we've got to shout out the good neighbors at State Farm for offering surprisingly great rates. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Get a quote today. All right. I'm going to give you my surprisingly great team. And we did joke on the ringer. NFL show on Sunday that I was going to devote this entire episode to hyping up the Carolina Panthers who I have a certain affection for. Now, I would not say that the Panthers have been

great. They are three and one, but they're currently 12th in DVOA, which is probably about right. But this was a team that was expected probably to be, you know, bottom 10. And I do think that they've made meaningful progress despite playing pretty easy competition. They had the Jets, Texas. They had the Saints when they were missing like 100 members of their coaching staff. And then they lost to the Cowboys, which was sort of them leveling up. The defense, which has powered most of this, it's still fourth in DVOA and they just traded for Stefan Gilmore, which I think is a great move. It's certainly a work in progress, but they just have team speed coming out of their ears.

Yeah. Team speed from rushing touchdown Lord Sam Darnold. All right. fine. Let's just talk about Sam. This is my favorite thing happening in football right now. It really. Seen Sam Darnold happy and thriving is just so wonderful.

I just love it so much. And look, the defense is the thing that has powered them to this good record. But Darnold, I think, has made really meaningful progress. His PFF grade, and that includes, includes a Cowboys game is 74, which is 10 points better than his best year in New York. he, I think, is being held up a lot by this game by Joe Brady. But he's also a meaningfully better quarterback than he has been. He is playing better himself when you separate out all the other stuff. Also, the other thing, they're next four.

Eagles, Vikings, Giants, Falcons. So, yes, they've had some cupcakes. They're going to have some winnable games here. Getting some more delicious. morsels there. For Sir Per. Oh, my God. Does Sir Per like cupcakes?

Just picturing Daniel Jones right now when you say, oh, this is troubling. They've got some easy opponents coming up. And look, if the Panthers win six games in their first eight, the Panthers are six and two or five and three, I think that always. already pretty automatically puts them on a path to far exceed their expectation. So this is not a charger situation. This is not a, oh, we were wondering if you would be a contender and you look like you could maybe win the Super Bowl thing.

Obviously, this is not what we're talking about. But I think my guy, Sir Per has got to be pretty happy with the early season results. And we weren't going to go through this entire pod without having a Panther shout out. I love it. I love it. No. Sir Per knows best of all. Sometimes you get that beautiful sun square.

right early in the day you curl up for a soothing nap and then the sun square moves right that's the nature of a day that's the nature of a season but you still had that moment you had that moment in the sun

I like that was beautiful it was beautiful thanks I have a cat not sure if you knew that shout out Halo all right we've just talked about surper we've just talked about Halo just wonderful pure goodness

and now we are going to move on to our next award which is the Secret Invasion Award for the team who isn't who they appear to be. And I am going to jump from that pure goodness to talk about the New England Patriots. Here we go. Who are one and three.

And I'm giving them this award based on, I don't think the Patriots are a one and three team. I think actually if you've watched the Patriots, it kind of is reflective of who they probably are, which is a steady, good, if things break right, could, you know, contend for a wild card spot, that kind of team. They also have the Texans, Cowboys, Jets, Chargers, that's hard. Panthers, Browns, Falcons, Titans, Bills, Colts, Bills, Jags, Dolphins remaining on the schedule.

So I just want to introduce that early into this conversation that there is a roadmap here for the Patriots to end the season with a pretty friendly looking record. And to me, what that's based on is they're just a balanced team, right? I was sad to see them trade Gilmore just because he's a great player, right? And if you go out and spend a record sending amount of money in free agency and then you have an opportunity to keep a Pro Bowl corner, you would think that those two things would go together. Obviously, that relationship had deteriorated. Gilmore's going to hit free agency at the end of this year no matter what. So even if it's a sixth round pick, sometimes Bill Belmont.

would just prefer to get something as opposed to getting nothing at the end of the year, particularly when there's sort of tension with the player and a question of health, although there have been multiple reports that his quad is totally healthy. But with how much their pass rush, particularly because of Matthew Judon has improved, the pressure on the secondary to just be like a group of shut down man cover guys, that's decreased a lot. And then you go to the offense where not everything has been great, particularly they haven't, They've struggled on the offensive line, which is surprising.

And it's really prevented them from getting a lot in the running game, particularly now that they're without James White for the remainder of the season. Right. But Mack Jones has been, you know, relatively low mistakes. They have moved the ball. He's been accurate. He's shown some development of chemistry with, with the new receivers. And I think they're going to be able to win games in multiple ways against. Decent teams, not great teams, but the decent teams on the schedule, I think that they've had some sort of weird breaks in the first few.

I think they're going to turn it around. I think this is going to be a team with a winning record. Okay. All right. I had a hard time with this category, Nora. I did. I really did. I think in part because a lot of the teams who were off to slow,

starts this year, I think might genuinely be pretty poor. And so I decided to go with the Seattle Seahawks for a couple reasons. One, I think that they're better than their current two and two mark indicates, though whether it ultimately matters in a division as loaded as the NFC West, which I'll circle back to in a minute, is certainly a fair thing to wonder. Second, I think that. I think They bit the idea to me of secret invasion very well. Are you familiar with the scrolls? Mallory, I am not. The scroll is to me as totally Kyle is to you.

We teach each other so much every week about our respective pop culture passions about football and dare I say about life. So this is a quick, quick snapshot here. Secret Invasion is a fabled Marvel storyline. I won't get into too many details here, but it centers on scroll invasion. Scrolls are shapeshifters. So a scroll can be around you at any moment,

and you wouldn't know. I could be a scroll right now. Like this could be a scroll impersonating me here on this podcast with you, right? Okay. So we need some sort of, we need to like, not now, in case I am the scroll, but at some other point when you're sure it's me,

settle on like a secret phrase so you know that that hasn't happened. But it can happen, right? It can happen. It has happened often. In Marvel history, we're about to get Secret Invasion show in the MCU.

And so this idea of true identity. Who is someone really? Who are they trying to be? And are those things at odds with each other? Can there be harmony there? I ultimately decided to go with the Seattle Seahawks, who are, of course, an eternal conundrum. This has been a weird Seahawks season. It is often a weird Seahawks season, even when they are in a string of contending seasons.

This is a big Kevin Clarkism, right? Our pal and colleague Kevin Clark has tweeted and retweeted many times that the Seahawks have never played a normal game. Kevin? The self-retweet? Never. I do it. We all do it. Danny Kelly, Seahawks fan, of course, studies the Seahawks closely, wrote about how that weirdness is manifesting this season in his Ringer power rankings this week.

Check them out on the ringer.com. This year, the weird thing, or one of the weird things, is that despite having Russell Wilson, Tyler Lockett, D.K. Metcalfe, new offensive coordinator, Shane Waljourn, who we talked about a couple weeks ago, doesn't often feel like any of those things are true, but maybe the weird thing is that it isn't weird because that's what Pete Carroll so clearly wants and that's actually the weird thing. They almost seem to be frozen in like identity amber on offense despite not needing to be. And in the scroll scenario, they would be the scrolls who get caught, I think, because they're not able to fully adapt to the new mask, the new shell that they're wearing.

Like my guy, Talos, tipping Nick Fury at Project Pegasus. I know you know what I'm talking about Nora. I have no idea what you're talking about, Mallory. But it doesn't have to be this way, Nora. I will posit to you that it doesn't have to be this way. They can let Waldron apply more elements of the McVeigh offense. They can enhance the intermediate passing game and let Russ cook deep the way he loves to. and stop being so insistent on the run and the ball control approach.

They really can. They just have to decide to. And some of that, some of that is happening already. You know, Waldron is applying some tempo, some no huddle. Russ was speaking this week about how, if you read Adam Jude's Seattle Times piece on this, there are some quotes in there from Russ about how this specific draw to tempo was one of the reasons he wanted to work with Waldron in the first place. So there are encouraging signs, but also so much. befuddlement.

And then you look at the results so far, like they beat the Colts, not super impressive if we're being, if we're being frank. They beat the Niners, more impressive. They've lost to the Titans and the Vikings, which would not have sounded bad in the preseason,

but has some real, like, yikes energy four weeks into this campaign, right? The defense improved against the Niners, but faces an immediate, very tough challenge next week, against the Rams on short, or this week, on short rest. And you look at that upcoming slate,

overall, it's only the 23rd toughest schedule the rest of the way. So they can, I believe, despite all of that, work their way into solid wild card contention here,

despite playing in the toughest division in football. I would encourage everyone to check out Ty Shaltors 538 piece this week on whether the NFC West is in fact, not just the toughest division in football this year, but perhaps the toughest in the NFL since the league expanded to 32 teams.

Yeah, I read that. That was very interesting. I'm with you. I like this one. I think that the thing that is actually getting lost in some of the weirdness. And while I agree that that they can reach their highest ceiling, if they do find a way to merge some of the RAM stuff through Waldron with what Russ likes to do, which has been a little touch and go so far, Russ is bawling.

Like, he is absolutely bawling. And that's a pretty good place to be if you're an NFL team. regardless of, you know, them being set in their ways and just funky stuff happening with the Seahawks. All right, Mal, it's time for our last award, which is the listener award. Less good place to be here for this, for our picks for this one. Yeah. But this was just too funny to pass up. Matt Leying submitted the Sean Fennessee Award for most despondent fan base.

Brutal. Shout out to our pal Sean. The good news. Neither one of us picked the Jets. brutal. But I think maybe only because it was implied in the question, you know? It's almost like Matt got to make the pick for us. So we got to make other picks instead. I would not have picked the Jets. I would not have. I would not have. I would not have the Jets either. In fact, I chose the Pittsburgh Steelers who are watching their quarterback Ben Rathlisberger

crumble into dust on the football field before their eyes every Sunday. I don't know a lot of Steelers fans who I ever at any point would characterize as despondent. They tend to just be, like, I don't know that that's like a mode they tend to operate in. Yeah. But there's nothing else you can really call a team that is just stuck in this horrible situation with a quarterback who cannot throw, who has, who is just continually on a literal weekly basis, completing passes behind the line of scrimmage on fourth downs with just an entire defense walked all the way up to the line.

Like it is so apocalyptic and sad there. And then you remember that the backup quarterbacks on this team are Mason Rudolph and Dwayne Haskins. What's you going to do? I, as a Ravens fan, am going to smile. This is just a delight. An absolute delight. I'd like to read, if I may, read to you one line, one sentence from our colleague, Roger Sherman's week four, Winners and Losers column. It's a staple of our weekly coverage. Wonderful. Luser, fourth down, Ben Rothlisberger. Quote, don't insult pasta by saying Ben Rothlisberger is noodle armed.

Roger. He's not well. Out of 40 passes on Sunday, 10 of them traveled more than 10 yards in the air. Like you could line up a box of pasta that's like, I don't know, 30 Bucatini noodles. Is there still a Bucatini shortage? Could you line up that many boxes of Bucatini?

It's all back. The supply chain has been fixed. Okay. Thanks to some wonderful journalists. We figured out what happened to the Bucatini and it is back. I love Bucatini. I do too. Incredibly good sauce potential in that noodle.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. The hollow inner noodle. You know, you could soak up so much. I love pasta. Should we do a pasta themed episode one week? Yes. Great.

Are you not a pasta episode? Oh, boy. Speaking of Isaiah, Mal, you got to do yours. Our wonderful producer. I want to apologize to Isaiah in advance here. I do. Isaiah's a Jags fan and that's my pick. Isaiah, I'm sorry.

Isaiah submits via the chat. It's been a long week. Oh, boy. Didn't even unmute to say it. Just put it in the chat. That's how you know that the despondence is sincere. Very real. So the Jags.

Why? Well, there's so many reasons. They're 0 and 4, of course. They're winless. They're 0 and 4, and that's like the least bad thing. Exactly. Exactly. And it's all downhill from there. You know, truthfully, though, that would be that start, well, of course, not pleasant. Ultimately fine, honestly, amid an ongoing rebuild. You know, this team has Trevor Lawrence, the number one pick in the most recent draft to build around. Moving toward another top draft pick isn't actually all that bleak, really. Like, stock the cupboards with elite prospects, keep loading up on young talent, build, build, build, toward. you know, competent play in a few years, right?

The problem here is Urban Meyer, whose rain has somehow spiraled even further, considerably further, in fact, since we discussed this potentially doomed pairing in our panic meter episode between weeks one and two. That already feels like an eternity ago. I think that the kindest thing that you could say, the kindest thing, the most generous thing,

you could say at this point is that Meyer's head coaching tenure has become a quote distraction. We saw that word a lot this week. We have gone from among other lows disastrous off-season hires to parsing his sideline demeanor, to Meyer needing to refute that he

was going to leave to take the USC job, to Meyer talking about how heartbroken he was by his teams showing to date, to of course, the events of this past week when Urban Meyer had to apologize for the photos and the videos that surfaced and went viral on social media last weekend. After he declined to take the flight home with the team after a road loss and stayed in Ohio where said activities took place.

Yes. In the last few days, he has apologized to the team for being a, quote, distraction, right? There's that word. Shot Khan. Apologized twice because the first time he only did it position group by position group and the players laughed at him. That's a crucial detail in all of this, yes. Jack's owner had to, you know, publicly scald his head coach, said in a Tuesday statement, quote,

I have addressed this matter with Urban. Specifics of our conversation will be held in confidence. What I will say is his conduct last weekend was inexcusable. I appreciate Urban's remorse, which I believe is sincere. Now he must regain our trust and respect. that will require a personal commitment from Urban to everyone who supports, represents, or plays for our team. Wow. Okay.

Ian Rappaport reported that Meyer had addressed the team to apologize. All these other details have been surfacing about the player responses. You just hint to that. There's a Michael Silver Twitter thread that is rife with alarming details for Urban Meyer's future with the Jags. Here are a couple quotes from this thread. quote, the Urban Meyer situation in Jacksonville has reached a crisis point, especially in the locker room. One player told me, quote, he has zero credibility in that stadium. Here's the best part, Nora.

He had very little to begin with, which we should not lose sight of, right? Another quote from that silver thread. Said one player, quote, we looked at him like WTF. Right when he left, everyone started dying laughing. Here comes the hammer. and he knew it. This is not tenable. This is a total mess.

He does not have credibility with his own team or with his own fan base. Jags fans probably thought at this point, even if they weren't going to have a strong record, that they would be celebrating the arrival of a potentially generational franchise quarterback this season, not watching their head coach embarrass himself in the franchise. It's pretty bad, Mal. It's really not what you want. It also, look, there is, it's a pretty quick leap from that statement to,

who Urban is fired. Who knows if that happens or not? That said, my question is just like, does he even want to do this? Does he have any interest in this job? Right. It doesn't seem like he had at this point. Like, why is this happening?

Like, truly, I mean, Urban Meyer has a lot of faults. I never expected sort of like intensity or work ethic to be one of them. But regardless of what happened and the video that surfaced and whatever, not taking the team plane back to quote unquote, like, see your grandkids.

Who, by the way, like, don't drag your grandkids into this. Also, don't bring up Trevor Lawrence's bachelor party from before he got drafted as like, oh, yeah, like, I was so inappropriate. I let this happen. It was like when I told Trevor, like, be careful at your bachelor party in May, man. Like, or whenever it was.

What are we doing here? like what is really you thought it was appropriate to not get on the plane it's just it's not great very sorry i hope there are brighter days ahead unfortunately it does not seem like there will be until the the head coaching situation changes in some material way whether that is it being someone other than urban mire or just like drastic drastic drastic shifts in how this is going on that note this has Ben, the Ringer NFL show. Ending on a high note this week, for real. But what is really a high note is that Ben Solac, Stephen Ruiz and Kailen Jones will be coming up next on this feed, previewing the week five games this Friday.

I'll be back Sunday night with Kevin Clark, Solac, and Ruiz to break down all of the Sunday NFL action. You can check out Mal on the Ringerv's feed on Fridays with her new co-host, Joanna Robinson. Yes. And we will be back next Thursday and every Thursday for the entire NFL season. our thanks to production assistant and Jags fan, Isaiah Blakely, for production on this episode, and to Arjuna Ramgapal for additional production supervision.