The Ringer NFL Show - Quarterback Questions and Franchise Tags | GM Street (Ep. 238)

Episode Date: February 22, 2018

The Ringer's Michael Lombardi and Tate Frazier discuss the top quarterbacks in the 2018 NFL draft (3:25), Jarvis Landry's franchise tag (29:10), and the Carolina Panther's new regime (40:15). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of GM Street is brought to you by the ringer.com. Yes, that is a website. And yes, it is out there and it exists. And one thing you should check out there is Danny Kelly, friend of the podcast, your NFL franchise tag primer. We're going to talk a lot about franchise tags on the podcast today. But go check that out. Danny Kelly wrote that up a couple days ago, franchise tag primer on the ringer.com. Also, be sure to check out One Shiny podcast with Mark Titus and myself.

We'll be back on Friday to talk about the recent updates in the FBI kids. with the NCAA. But first, it is time for GM Street. Welcome to GM Street part of the Ringer Podcast Network. It is February 21st. It is Wednesday afternoon, and I am joined by Mr. Michael Lombardi. Lombardi, how you doing? Take Frazier, I couldn't be better. I'm happy one week, had a nice week, you know, good, turn a book in, right? So turn the book in, that felt good. What's that saying? Monkeys off your back? No, not really. I mean, what's that saying? Somebody once said, there's three things you have to do in life.

if you have to have to have a son, plant a tree, and write a book, because all three things live on, right? That's right. I got two of the three. Now I've got to plant a tree, although I have no idea how to plant a tree. We'll figure out what trees to plant. They may be legal in some states. So I did that.

So I did that. And then I went out and drank Jack Daniels, had a good time. So it was good. Yeah. So now I'm ready to go back to work. I'm hanging in there. Speaking of being back to work. Oh, I got to tell you, though, you know, now I'm not a big celebrity sighting guy, right?

Okay. So, like, I mean, I go to a couple of restaurants in town here, and there's celebrities there. I have no idea. I need my dog. Was it Ray Leota? No, I've seen, no, I've never seen really him,

but I would know him if I saw him. I hope you would be excited. I would know some people. Like, I know some people. But like, so I've been out a couple times. So I ran into James Khan the other night. That's a good one highlight of my life, right? So, and I went over to him and I was like,

every time I tell you not to go to the toll plaza, you still go anyway, he had one of the great lines back to me. He said, I wish I never went. But my big thrill, I mean, I was really, I was really happy to see Santino. But then my other. big thrill was I met this owner of the Sixers, Josh Harris.

Okay. I barge right up to his ass and just like, okay, here we go. Let's have this conversation. It's a very Philly way to take to talk about things. You go right up to him and you tell him that you're not a fan of mental toughness. I have my Super Bowl ring on too, so I felt really confident. You know, like he couldn't blow me off as some like idiot fan, which I probably was, right? But, you know, he had to pay attention to me like because I did have the jewel

to the back. I had Bing. So anyway, we had a nice conversation about the team, about mental toughness, about all that. It was good. I feel really good. Do you feel like the Sixers are going to make some changes now that they, I don't know if they are. Like I gave the head coach a big plug.

Like I like, look, this guy's really good. You imagine he loses for three years. He coaches his ass off every night. And, you know, there's a lot of things that are going against them. And he's trying to do a really good job. I don't know. There was some, I got the sense that he's got to, you know, that they're counting on the playoffs. Yeah.

Brett Brown's trying really hard. They're the seven seed in the east right now. I mean, I think the guys done a marvelous job. I really do. It's rolling in the right direction. I do. All good things in Philly. We'll say that out.

Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Everyone's enjoying. anyone anyone's interested in the summer house is one available in the ocean city selling it?

We can't go to the East Coast for quite some time. Clean up duty here for GM Street. We just want to put it out there. I know we've been on Wednesdays once a week. Since the season in it, we're actually going to move to Mondays.

We're going to start the week off of GM Street. Probably be late afternoon on the East Coast when these come up. But just a heads up that GM Street will be moving. Of course, we've been doing three a week. Now we're going to do one a week and then once the draft comes around,

we'll pick it up. And speaking of the draft, we have to talk about the hot topics now. I mean, it is the offseason. We're all talking about future prospects are going to come to the league next year. And the name that it keeps coming up and is drawing a lot of controversy

and obviously a lot of headlines is the Heisman trophy winner, Lamar Jackson. Yes. Bill Pollyan has become the face of this problem. And he has pretty much come out and said that Lamar Jackson is a run-first quarterback isn't quite the right fit in the NFL

to be a prototypical quarterback and has also said that he should switch to wide receiver. Now. Now. Where do we stand with this? because this is a lot to take in. And he also didn't think he was tall, right?

I mean, I didn't see what Bill's... He basically described Marcus Vick or Tyrod Taylor and tried to put those attributes to Lamar Jackson, a man that is 6'3-and-211 pounds. And really fast, okay, like Michael Vick fast. Like, I don't know what he's going to run at the combine. I mean, look, I'm fortunate to have a lot of experience watching Lamar Jackson play because Matthew, my son was there.

So I've seen Lamar Jackson from when he was alternating quarterbacks his first year there. was alternating with, they had three different quarterbacks. They were putting them all in and out. Very patrino way to do things. Right. And that year, he was really, he couldn't throw the ball anywhere. Then the next year when he won the Heisman, that year from the spring to that season,

he improved leaps and bounds. And then this year he improved leaps and bounds. I mean, he got better. So I would not say, in my experience of watching quarterbacks, that would not be like, Tyrell prior at Ohio State, like there wasn't a lot of passing in the Ohio State. Like he really wasn't a passer. He was a runner. Like that's not who Lamar Jackson is.

Lamar Jackson runs an offense that is with Bobby Petrino, which is difficult to run because Patrino is a pro-style coach. He wants to do a bunch of different things. And so he's played quarterback in a fairly difficult system. And he's had a lot of success. And I think you could say he's not accurate. I'm not going to argue with that, but you could say Deshawn Watson's not accurate. You could also say Sam Darnold.

Now, we're going to define accuracy. That's the biggest problem, Tate Fraser, is, okay, you watch the tape on Josh Allen, you watch the tape on Sam Donald, do you watch the tape on Josh Rosen or Baker Mayfield, and they don't always put the ball where they need to put it all the time. Remember what Brett Favre has said, and I will repeat this again. There are three kind of quarterbacks, right? One guy that can throw it through the door. one guy can hit the door handle

and then the great one throws it through the keyhole. And I would say, based on what I've watched on all these quarterbacks so far, there's really not a guy that's going to throw it through the keyhole. They all have some limitations within their accuracy. How much are you willing to tolerate? It's up to you. And you've got to look at the numbers too with Lamar Jackson.

We brought up the Polion thing and a lot of people were pointing to the fact that he was a run first quarterback. And that's not necessarily the case when you look at Lamar's numbers. We have a 59% completion percent. percentage, which is not too bad. I mean, not great, but it's better than Josh Allen, who is at 56.3. Well, they'll tell you a lot. Josh Allen's had a lot of drops. And Josh Allen throws,

like, I don't get this. They say, well, Josh Allen had a lot of jobs, and he does. I see people drop. Baker Mayfield, every quarterback has drops, okay? I think this whole notion of percentage of completion by colleges is a little misleading because there's so many, there's so many bubbles and there's so many flat. But Lamar doesn't have that many of those. I mean, he doesn't throw as many He bubbles as a lot of guys do. I mean, they try to throw the ball down the field. I mean, you know, Cole, the tight end that's at the 49ers now, he caught a bunch of passes from them. And, you know, they throw it up the field.

And that's what I was going to say. You can even look at the yard comparison between Allen and Lamar Jackson. And I bring up Josh Allen because he is now somehow moved his way to the top of a lot of draft boards. A lot of people think that the Cleveland Browns may take him first overall. He throws for 1,812 yards last year. and Lamar Jackson's 3660. So there's a difference between passing yards. Let me ask you this question.

Let's do it the other way. Like, this is what I don't understand. If Lamar Jackson played at Wyoming, what do you think would happen? I think a lot of people in Wyoming would be shocked at what they just witnessed. Right. They've never seen athletic.

Athletism like that. I do too, right? Like, to me, like, I don't understand this. Like, take the player and like he's playing at a better level of comp at Louisville than he is. Just like if he played there, and I'm not dismissing Josh Allen. This is not about killing John.

Josh Allen. This is about, like, Lamar Jackson's played on a fairly big stage. He's beaten some good teams. He's lost to some good teams, too. He's had moments of inaccuracy. I think the last game of his college career is disappointing, and when you break it down, because he had a chance to really lead his team back. But more than anything, where we are at this stage in the draft process and in the evaluation process, we don't know enough about any one of these guys. First of all, first and foremost, let's just get this really clear. I don't want to hear this anymore. Nobody's reading coverages in college football. Typically, quarterbacks that learn the pro game, they read middle of the field open or middle of the field closed, correct?

So if it's cover two, the middle of the field's open. If it's cover one, the middle of field's closed, then you read it. This is not happening in college football. This is half-field reads where it's play action face. I mean, you can't find five dropback passes in Baker-Mayfield's offense. You just can't. They're all fake the handoff, roll out, throw it back. They're all trick-play, sprint-right.

It's Lincoln Riley. Exactly. I mean, and I'm not, I'm not criticizing their offenses whatsoever. It's just that you can't say any of them read coverages. You can't say it. Like, you just can't say it. It's just they're not. They're reading a man. We're throwing high, low off of this. We're throwing here. Here's where I want you to throw the ball. But the one player you can point to that has the closest to an NFL system where you are reading progressions is Lamar Jackson, a guy that has to go to a second read a lot of times. And that's what Petrino does. There is no run-pass option. I've seen a lot of people, you know, we've got and we've joked about this whole RPO thing, this whole, everyone wants to run the RPO offense and offense twice there. But at the same time, Lamar Jackson is a guy that had never run an RPO at Louisville. That's not what he does. But now we're in a position where we're talking about him like that. They want to run a pass.

And he throws the ball down the field. I mean, he makes a throw against your North Carolina, Tar Heels. That's incredible. I mean, he makes some incredible. The Virginia comeback two years ago was incredible. He makes the crow in the back of the end zone. I mean, I just think it's way too early to dismiss anybody and it's time to move positions. I do know this.

I think that Lamar will have some trouble with volume of offense. I think there's no doubt that he's not going to go in there and be able to handle everything. But the NFL doesn't want you to handle everything. If you put Lamar Jackson behind a style of offense like Deshaun Watson was running at Houston, who everybody said had accuracy problems too. And he does. I think you're going to get a dynamic, faster man who's going to make some incredible plays. I think you have to be committed.

I think the one thing that I've learned so far this year, Lamar Jackson's a polarizing guy, right? So everybody has an opinion and it's not in the middle. Nobody thinks he's just going to be an average NFL quarterback. Everybody who likes him thinks he's going to be great, and then the other ones are saying move him to another position, right? He's polarizing to a degree.

But the coach that sees the modern version of football, the modern version of where the offense is going, could see the value. Michael Vick can play as long as he did in the NFL, then why can't Lamar Jackson play quarterback? And we've even had situations with a guy like a Pat White from West Virginia where he was a smaller guy like a Mike Vick. He was 510, 511. And he wasn't even willing to sacrifice being the quarterback at the combine. He was still trying to work out with the quarterbacks and see what would happen.

And then once you got to Miami, he decided he needed to switch positions. So the idea that he has to make this decision right now before the draft, I think is a very strange thing. Yeah, but he has no reason to make it. I mean, like, he's not, like, the ball comes out of his hand. It's juiced. I mean, this thing, he's throwing fastballs now. I mean, he's throwing heat, and he can throw it on all three levels. Like, I don't see, I do see accuracy at times.

I do see his footwork. Other footwork in college is horrible because they're not coaching footwork. They're coaching plays. And so you've got to take it a little bit less, and you've got to be able to visualize him and what style of offense would we put him in. Like, what will be able to run? The thing of remarkable about Lamar Jackson, to me, is he's stumbles a lot, Jate Frazier. He's always kind of stumbling, but he never loses his

bounce. He's got incredible bounce. People say he's thin. I've seen him take some incredible hits as a sophomore and he bounces right back up. He's kind of got that gumbo style of play to him. Look, I think there's a lot more work to be done on the quarterbacks, but I would rather go, and you've got to have an organizational decision here to draft Lamar Jackson, because if you do, everybody's going to be on board. And it can't be one of those. We're all on board the meeting. And as soon as the meeting breaks up, well, you know, I really didn't want to do that. I just went along with the pack. You know, this is going to test your moral courage as an organization, so you're all on the same page. And I think this, too, I think all these mock drafts are just horsecraft.

I do. I just think they're all just bullshit. Yeah. And I think it hurts the kids more. And there's so many mocks at this point. I mean, everyone has their own version of the mockers. Because everybody, because why do you think we have so many mocks? Because all the guy, all the TV people and the media, all the, what's the, what's the most easy way to get views is to throw up a mock, right? And then people want to throw up their mock. Yes. Right? But we haven't even gotten to the combine. And what people don't realize, the combine is not about how fast you run the 40. It may be for Rich Eisen. Don't tell Chris Johnson that. It may be for Rich Eisen, but it's not for, the combine is about character and medical. Okay? It's about determining your character, your level of intelligence. All, it's getting interpersonal

relate with the guy. Now, the workout, you can work that out. If you run a bad, we're going to talk about Jarvis Landry later. Okay, Jarvis Landry ran 140 at the combine, and he was bad, he stopped. He overcame the 40. You can't overcome bad character and you can't overcome medical. You just can't. That's what the combine essentially is trying to gleam out. The workout, you can always overcome that. And you mentioned mock draft, so we're just going to talk about them now, even though

they are so stupid. A lot of them that are coming out, and a lot of talk has been around and surrounding Josh Allen. And we've seen this with quarterbacks before. Brock Osweiler, the highest himself comes to mind. You get these tall quarterbacks, these big kids, and you automatically decide that's the type of guy. That's the frame that you want at the quarterback position. It's a very old-school way of thinking, but it is what it is.

And with Josh Allen, he has, you know, everyone wants to talk about him. He's the hidden gym on the draft. And now he's gotten to the point where it's not so hidden anymore. He is now the number one pick, according to a lot of these stupid mock drafts, like we mentioned. When you look at his numbers, they're very similar to some, guys in the 2011 draft that were all drafted in the first round. That's the only year that you

can find numbers that are similar that was someone was drafted in the first round. And those guys were Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, and Christian Ponder. We all remember that draft. And that's where his numbers, they are similar or akin to most of those guys. So are we in a situation where we're just over-hyping this guy because he's a little bit out of the radio. Of course we are. Of course we are over-hyped. Everybody is.

I mean, I think the whole draft is over-hyping. I mean, that's what I'm talking about with these mucks. People get over-hyped. And so, here's what I think people don't really understand about the draft process. And I don't mean this in a disrespect to scouts at all. But this is really what happens is the draft boards in most organizations that are not set strictly by the scouts. The scouts collect the data during the season, and they come up with their grades, and they put their board together. And then the people that really understand

the league, that really understand the league, this is what we need, this is the kind of player, you know, that really understand the multidimensional aspect. Then they start moving the board around. And then we'll start reading about, oh, that guy's rocketing up the draft board, okay? Or that guy's plummeting down the board. Time out. Time out, okay? The guy was never in the right place to begin with. He just didn't move up four rounds because he had a really good February.

He was mis-evaluated back in the time. And I think that's what we don't give enough give and take it. Because sometimes scouts, and again, I don't mean this badly, but they don't watch any of their team tape. They couldn't tell you what the difference between what the right. tackle for the Patriots has to do, and what the left tackle for the Broncos and their scheme has to do. The NFL is all scheme related. And if you don't understand all those schemes, you can't start picking out mock drafts. I mean, there's some guy in his basement going to do mock drafts. He has no idea about the genesis behind the New York Giants grading system, right?

If you don't know that, you can't pick a player for them. You're just guessing. So why would I look at something that's guessing? It drives me absolutely insane, Dave Frazier. I can tell. I'm enjoying that you're fired up. Let's just keep talking about some of these guys that are on some of these mock draft, especially the quarterback position. Another guy that we both know, the Chosen Rosen, the UCLA quarterback. And I think the Combine's probably going to be really critical for Josh Rosen.

Josh Rosen is a really talented kid. Really talented. Fluid hips. Great hips. You know, he's got a great arm. He's got everything you want. I mean, he's, you know, he's the prototype. Now, he's going to have to prove that he's...

That's the character test, right? He's going to have to prove he's got the ability to lead man. We got the whole... He thinks he's big man on campus. approve it. I don't mean to offend anybody, but he's got to prove he ain't a three-car garage kid. Okay? There's got to be a little bit of I've overcome something and daddy didn't pay me out of it, right? That's what he's got to do. And I don't mean that to any kid who's going up to a three-car garage. Okay, that's a disclaimer. I don't want to take shit for that. However, that being said, they have a three-car garage. They'll be okay. You've got to prove it out. You've got to be able to prove he can leave people. People are going to like them. Because part of this whole process about playing quarterback is there's a sense of people want to play for you. People want to get around.

you. Nick Foles endeared his teammates in Philadelphia. They liked them. Pretty obvious, right? They played for him. Same thing at quarterback. I mean, if Josh Rosen has got that quality where people want to play for them and people love them, it's going to be a, the combine for Josh Rosen is going to be huge. The interpersonal visits with Josh Rosen is going to be huge. And all the team psychiatrist, the Bob Trout ones who do it for a lot of teams in the league and all the teams that have it, what he reads on that psychological profile will be more important. than what he runs to 40. And guess what, Tate Fraser?

Yep. Nobody who does mock drafts will really know what's on that psychological profile. Nobody will. Only the teams will know. Right. Only the teams will know. We'll get maybe a few muffled leaked report. Right. So I'm always accused of picking Jamarcus Russell, right? Which I wasn't even in the room, okay? Because I was sent to Elba. You know what Elba is?

Elba is where Napoleon was sent by the French when he was overthrown in government. It's a little island off the coast of Italy. Al Davis used to say, I'm going to send you to Elba, which I wish you would have said. You've been excommunicated a little bit. So I'm out. So anyway, in fairness to one of my dear guy I pick on quite a bit, Laine Kiffin, give him credit for this. Lane Kiffin becomes the head coach of the Raiders. He has no interest in going down the Jamichus Russell Road.

He has no interest in it at all, right? And he knows that I'm in Elba. And so he can't really talk to me. you know, but what's he going to do? So he's like, you've got to help me here. You're not going to be here, but you've got to help me. Do you have any background information on this kid? I really want to pick Calvin Johnson.

I think he would be perfect. So, all right. He would have been perfect. He would have been perfect. So I get the tap on Jamarcus Russell, which is the psychological profile of, and all the players at the Combine take it, right? So you basically, you evaluate their work ethic, you evaluate their competitiveness, you evaluate their toughness, their physical toughness.

mental toughness, their ability to solve problems. There's five areas you get evaluated in. Well, okay, Jamarcus Russell was bad in work habits. Shock, right? Okay. But he was really bad in competitiveness. Okay? So what we learned doing this test is if you are, if you lack work habits,

but you are really competitive, we can work with you. Okay? but because Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday might be tough days for us. But on Sunday, you're going to compete your ass off, right? But if you lack competitiveness, whether you work hard or not, it's going to be worth, it's over with. He was bad at both. It didn't influence the Raiders. They still picked them.

Okay. So my point of the story is that test for Josh Rosen will be more important for him than any player. And when we see that, now we got something because his talent on tape, is there. Yeah, and I know we're going to get a lot of throwing motion stuff that's going to come out. And it just drives me freaking crazy. I want to go off the, I don't like his feet. I don't like the left step that he took. The George Whitfields of the

brooms. Where is George Whitfield? He's disappeared. He's on the lamb. He is clearly on the lamb. Like, he was a guru. He was an expert. What's that Don Henley song about expert witnesses? I mean, he just got to like, where did Johnny? I think that was his last URA. Where was his, like, speaking

of Johnny, I mean, give Johnny credit. Like Johnny's trying to come back. Like, I'm giving Johnny credit. I try to get Johnny to follow me on Twitter because I'm like, I'll help your ass, man. I'll try to help you. I'll make as many calls as you. I'll help you more than your agent. Trust me. And like, I'm like, I'm rooting for the kid. Like, I'm literally rooting for the kid because if he's desire to turn his life around, I will, but I don't know where's George. These guru, they drive me crazy. I don't like his footwork. I don't like his, like, like, do you even understand what you're talking about? Do you even understand what you're talking about? The funny thing about it is

a guy like Josh Rosen, when you look at him on tape, I mean, people, they love the high elbow. He has the high elbow with the throwing motion. So by the end of all this, I will imagine that Josh Rosen will be talked about a lot. You mentioned Johnny Mansell, a guy that he is compared to now a lot. Baker Mayfield, he's trying to kind of wash away these comparisons. He said he doesn't, he's not anything like Johnny Manzell

or than the fact that he's from Texas. I don't think he's anything like Johnny Manzo either. But you talked about that character test when he takes a psychological evaluation, that would be a big test for him. Yeah, like Tebow, everybody thinks Tee's was really high on this tap, right? And that's why... And competitiveness, of course.

But it really wasn't the case. It really wasn't. It wasn't like, oh, my God, his tap just blew you out of the water. No, no, no, no, no. Wait a minute. Time out. There's some areas where you've got to work your way through, which proved to be right, right? Well, I think when I watch Baker Mayfield, there's a lot I like about Baker

Fame. I think he's one of the guys, like I thought Deshaun Watson could change the culture in the building. I think Mayfield could. I'm not there yet, but just what I hear, what I read, what I study, talking the people that know the kid, he could change the culture. And if you're going to draft a quarterback in the top 10, he better change, the reason you're drafting a quarterback in the top 10, I'm just going to let you in on the secret here, Take Frazier, is your culture sucks,

right? Yes. You're in the building. You have someone to believe in. Yeah. The Giants obviously aren't going to take a quarterback, okay, because they think they got one. But for the most, for the other teams picking in the top 10, you know, the Colts aren't going to take one either. They obviously think they need a quarterback and they got a fixed. Mayfield at least looks to me like he could change the culture. it seems like Mayfield is in this weird, he's trying to go anti the PR PR zone because of the whole Johnny Mansell

comparisons. He's not going to go to the 2018 draft. Look, it's in Dallas, right? And he went to Lake Travis High School. He went to Texas Tech. He had to walk. I mean, look, this kid. This guy's walked on twice. He went to Texas Tech, walked on,

became starting quarterback. Why wouldn't he want to enjoy that with everybody that's been around his life? I mean, like, I'm going to, you know, like I would say when you achieve something tremendously in your life, which is to get drafted in the first round, which obviously Mayfield probably will, Remember there's a time back in September

people thought he would be a fifth rounder. How'd that work out for you? 48 touchdowns later. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, I would think he want to, why would I knock him for not want to go to the draft? Yeah. Because he doesn't want to shake Adele's hand?

Yeah, and a lot of people were clamoring about this being a big deal. But, I mean, the number one pick last year, Miles Garrett didn't go to the draft last year. Christian McCaffrey didn't go to the draft last year. So this is nothing new. Like, I don't see why they have to be there. Like, what? Because I got to watch him get his hat?

Apparently. Dell's upset. He's not going to get a handshake. I mean, look, I think the kid, look, I think Oklahoma's offense is fascinating to really study because it's really, as I've said it on this podcast before, it ain't offense. It's a bunch of trick plays. And he runs them. And he's asked to throw the ball from weird spots and weird plays. Off his back foot, back across the field. All the way across the field, here, there. I mean, and the one thing that's really impressive with him is he sees to have a vision of the field. It doesn't look like he gets kind of, it's dirty

for him. But there's now, like most of these offenses, there's no real dropback passes. It's all this, you know, fake this, do that. So, you know, it's going to be, he's going to be interesting. The combine for him to me is going to be character related and then watch it and work out.

Absolutely. Should we get on to Jarvis Landry and talk about some actual news running NFL? Do you have any more thoughts about these quarterbacks? You know, well, we didn't talk about Sam Darnold, who I like Sam Darnold a lot. I think Sam Darnold's another one that's sort of, he's sort of, he's sort of under the radar right now, but I've also seen him, you know, top five. I've seen him taken by the

jet six. He's kind of all over the place. I would be shocked if he waits that. I mean, I think Donald, I think there's some issues you're going to have to overcome with the quarter. Look, the quarterback's going to get overdrafted no matter who they are. And so there's some things you've got to have to overcome with them. But, I mean, you know, look, the guy's loose with the ball in the pocket. He does

make mistakes with turnovers. He isn't in a really, I would say, friendly. He's got to make a lot of plays on his own. I think for him, it's going to be the interview. going to be the workout. I think it's the whole process with him, and we're still not there yet. We're still not there yet. Is there anything at the combine that you think of Donald does, you know, if he runs the 40 really well or something like that, that can make him maybe jump a month?

I think it's really going to be the interaction with the guy going in and watching tape. I spoke last week to a group of players going to the Combine at the Sports Academy up here in Thousand Oaks, and I try to just impress on them that it's not about the 40, but you better know your offense. I mean, one time I interviewed a kid at the Combine, okay? And we put a formation up. You know, everybody has tape in the room. You get 15 minutes. You walk in the room.

You start watching tape, right? Boom. Let's start. Go, okay, this is you. What do you read here? You better know what you're doing. So we brought this one kidded. I won't reveal his name.

But he was a wide receiver. We put the tape on and we said, okay, what do you call this formation? He looked at it for about, well, I'd say 45 seconds. He said, we call that deuce. Okay, great. Three receivers to one side, one receiver to the other. You call that deuce, right? Yep, call that deuce.

Okay, good. Next play. We had two receivers to one side, two. two receivers the next side. I said, what do you call that play? He said, doose. You call three by one. You're like McAllister? You call three by one deuce. You call three by one deuce. Yeah, two dues. It's all deuce. Okay, that conducts the interview. We'll see a party gives at the door. That just means he just lines up and runs. It gets open. Exactly right. Exactly right. And he's really good. And he's still playing in a league.

But anyway, so yeah. But that's what's what's going to happen. And so quarterbacks, really the ones that are going to endear themselves to these teams, are going to be the ones that can really nail you down and say, here's what I was thinking here, here's what I was reading, here's the way we did this, and explain it, because they're never going to do, pro football and college football are late years apart. So they're never going to really understand it, right? But if they understand what they're doing,

it'll help them eventually figure out what they're going to do in pro football. And that's the test that they're all going to have to pass. And is there any certain sign that you look for for teams that are looking for a quarterback, how they handle the NFL Combine, like who they interview, and stuff like that. It's just a sort of, there's no method to the madness. There's no method to the madness.

I mean, everybody's going to go look at the quarterbacks and they're all going to get flown around and then everybody's going to have a private workout. I mean, I would say Darnold, Rosen, you know, Lamar Jackson, the great Josh Allen, Baker,

those five guys will probably have 10 private workouts each. And they all have a chance for whatever team to, you know, whether they're in the 10 to 15 range, or someone in the first one may jump at one of those guys that may be shocking. They could go all early. Right.

They could go early. I mean, but you better do. The one thing, two things I would recommend strongly. Okay, nobody does. Al Davis, you know, he might have picked Jamarcus Russell, which was a mistake, but he was brilliant in this sense. He wanted every quarterback done in the draft. And he wanted them all done by the defense coordinator.

Because he wanted to know if the guy came in the game, you had a background on a player. And I think it's really important as a personnel guy. Like, I'm going to do every single quarterback in the draft and write them up. even though I'm not in pro football right now. I'm going to watch the Richmond kid yesterday, watching the University of Delaware. Shout out to Maddie. You know, I was watching the tape.

You know, so there it is. You know, you got to, but you got to do them all because they're going to show up again. I mean, look, Nate Seufield now is being talked about as a legitimate start. They like him in Philadelphia, which was why they might trade Nick Foles. Do I see that? I didn't see it when he was playing, but maybe he's gotten better. Absolutely. And you never know how that stuff sort of pans out.

And we'll keep our eyes on it. We're going to talk a lot about those quarterbacks. over the next few weeks, because that will be... I mean, I hate to rant. I'm sorry, Dave Fraser. No, I like it. I like it. We're going to get to some of the franchise tags here, but first we're getting a word from my best friend, JJ Redick. This is JJ Reddick, here to talk to you about the JJ Reddick podcast,

part of the Ringer Podcast Network. Currently, I play in the NBA for the Philadelphia 76ers, but you may know me from my previous teams, the LA Clippers, Milwaukee Bucks, and the Orlando Magic, or from my college days at Duke University. Being a professional basketball player, I have a great opportunity to talk to a lot of interesting people, and the podcast is a place where I can share those conversations with you, the listener.

On my show, I sit down with athletes, celebrities, and a variety of other special guests. If you haven't already, please subscribe to the JJ Reddick podcast on Apple Podcast, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Let's talk about Jarvis Landry. Oh, my man. Your man, he gets franchised by the Dolphins. He's Ferris, too.

He still can get offers, but he will get approximately $16 million. It's not an exclusive deal. But if someone, and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, if an outside suitor tries to sign Jarvis Landry. They have a right to match. And they also, there's two first rounders, right? Two first round draft picks. I think they just put the first right of refusal on.

Okay. So that gives them a first right of refusal for the contract. I think I'm not sure. But to me, this is like, you know, this is like a guy who has a $100,000 watch on his wrist. right? If you want to pay A rolling. If you want to pay for Jarvis Landry, if you want to pay for Jarvis Landry, okay? To me,

you know, averages under 10 yards a catch can only play in a slot. Like to me, you're overpaying for the position. It would be no different than if I went out and bought the most expensive watch I could possibly find, right? And then every time I needed to check what time it was, I looked at my phone. Right? Because that's what you're doing. Like, that's what you're doing.

just wasting money on, like, okay. It's nice to have, but at the end of the day, it's not really useful. You can't really do anything. Now, okay, so let's take a step back. Let's take the brilliance of Mike Tanamont and accept that, you know, he really has this down, cold, right? So he franchot, they don't even like Landry. Like, there's so many conflicts in the building in Miami. You know, they want to trade them.

They don't want to trade them. I got my ass ripped by all the Miami writers saying, oh, you're full of crap. But then they reported they were trying to trade him. And then, of course, they, like, they've been so imbalanced on what they're trying to do with Landry. It seems like they just don't want to let them walk for free. Right, but they also don't want to pay them, right? But then they franchise them. Okay, so the methodology here is you're going to tie up your cap, okay?

Because once you put that tender on them, you're going to tie it up. Now, I think it's because he now controls the trade, Dave Fraser. So let's just walk through this, right? So let's say he wants to play in Baltimore. And let's say Arizona's interested in him. This is hypothetical. right? Okay.

And Arizona agrees to trade with Miami. They're going to give up their second round draft pick, and they get Jarvis Landry. Well, Ferris II says, I ain't playing in Arizona. I want to play in Baltimore. Well, Baltimore said, we're not giving up the two. Okay? Where do you go now? You just have to sit on it, right?

I'm not signing a deal with Arizona because Landry now controls the deal. Yes. Okay, he controls the deal. And they need that guarantee from Landry to make the deal. Right. So he needs to sign his tender and then they can trade them. But he ain't signed an tender until he goes. So what Landry now does is saying, I want to be traded to Baltimore.

So Baltimore's saying, well, once Lance, why would I pay? We know that he wants to be here. So why am I going to. Why would I pay? Yeah, exactly. Why would I pay? Like, where's the motivation behind this? Like, why not just take the compensatory pick and the cap freedom and let the guy who

averages under 10 yards of catch, go. Like, nine touchdown. Like, you can replace them. Look, you don't need that watch on your wrist. You really don't. You can have one of those, you know, use one of my, use that, what's this thing? A movement watch. Yeah, Millie bought these.

Get you a Fitbit, whatever you mean. Whatever it is. I mean, it makes, like, you can't, like, I can't really understand their ration. Now, do they want to sign them to a long-term deal? I mean, come on. It doesn't sound like it. Based on what we've heard the entire year. They don't even, half the time, they're so inconsistent.

and what they think about, the player. You know, and then, okay, so he wants a long-term deal. You've just told him you're going to pay him 16, whatever it is. Now you're going to turn around and say, oh, we'd like to get you for 80 and a half a year. Good luck. How's that going to work out for you? Not so well. And we've seen this whole franchise thing.

Sort of work out weird. I want to talk about another situation that's... Feel free. A little similar. It's your show, too. The Pittsburgh Steelers and Levi-on-Bell, he was franchised in 2017 for $12.1 million. will go up to $14.5 million this year. They're all signs.

Kevin Colbert will do the same thing and franchise them again. But we're getting in Kirk Cousins territory with Leveon right now. We're just going to keep franchising him, keep franchising him. Well, they can't do it. They can do two years in a row or three years and that's 144%.

So, like, to me, what Kevin's doing is renting a player, and he's renting a runnerback. And he knows Leveon is, you know, he's not going to hit 27 and then he's going to hit 28, and now he's not going to pay him for the five-year, a lot of money. Yeah, he's not going to pay him for the time. when somebody else pays them and his career's going that way. So to me, renting him isn't really a bad idea.

There's fully, you're better off renting him than signing him to a bad deal. Yep. Like a five-year deal when we have a situation where we have a core team that is built to win now. Right. You're better off just renting them. So, and that's the thing that drives me crazy about Landry is at some point, Tate Fraser, you have to write down on your grease board in your office. These are replaceable players and these are non-replaceable players. Okay. And the non-replaceable players, meaning that you really can't replace that guy. It's like he's like going to be hard to replace. You know, you pay those guys. Replaceable guys, it's going to be challenging. You may not get a great, you may not, look, Landry with the ball in his hands really good. I like Landry when he has the ball in his hands. There's a lot of other stuff I don't like when Landry doesn't have the ball in his hand.

But like he is replaceable, right? So I'm going to pay him $16 million as a replaceable part. and once you start paying replaceable players, you caps all screwed up. And let's talk about a team that we're not sure if he is replaceable or irreplaceable at this point. I mean, he's shown signs of being a guy that could be the face of the franchise, and that's the Minnesota Vikings with Case Keenham,

the NFC North Champions. Obviously, I had this great moment in the playoffs. They have $50 million in cap space right now. But it will be tricky because if they do decide to franchise Keenum, I mean, it's going to be north of $20 million. And it's, is Kays? Keenham replaceable or is he irreplaceable that's the decision I think he is replaceable I think he is replaceable and I think that that there's a negotiation you can have with case Keenham and I think

where if he understands where his value is he may take less to be with the team right or he could just basically take more guarantee okay so there is and I think the only way we really know what Minnesota is going to do is figuring out where the health of these quarterbacks are we don't really know what Bridgewater did in practice I didn't see any of the practice tape I don't know we don't really know what Sam Bradford's bone-on-bone knee is and how long can he less and how can you make a long-term commitment to San Bradford when there's nothing long-term about San Bradford at all. So to me, you could go to Keenham and say here, or you could sit there and say, do I want A.J. McCarran, or do I want, you know, Kirk, get in the Kirk Cousins thing? Maybe I get

the Kirk Cousins thing. Maybe I just say, screw it. I got a really good team. I get Kirk Cousins. It's over, right? Maybe you do that. And that might be a bad thought. And I want to talk about A.J. McCarran and Kirk Cousins because I think a lot of conversations have people have put Kirk Cousins in a different echelon, you know, maybe considered him, quote, unquote, an elite quarterback, and McCarron is a backup. I mean, the last time we saw him start a game, I think, was January 2016. Yeah, Denver, he played in Denver, and they came back.

Like, I think he got him back. They were down 15 to 0. He came in, he got him up 16, and then they ended up losing the game, something like that. But now those guys are talked about being the same guy because of Cleveland may go after McCarron. There's some talk of McCarron, you know, being able to get money in the range of $20 million.

What's the difference between an age? Jay McCarran and Kirk Cousins. Is that crazy to have that conversation? I'm going to tell you this. You know how the great Bill Simmons has rules for gamblers, like manifestos, okay? Well, let me give you the main rule in free agency. The quarterback manifesto. Right.

Let me give you the main rule. This applies to all positions. Oh, all positions. The main rule in free agency. We can't sign a player to a lot of money and still need a guy at that position. So if he does it immediate, and I'm not talking about he's solved, you know, every general manager has a debt chart in his room. And as soon as you sign a guy, you get a tag and you put it up there, right? If you watch hard knocks, you've seen the board.

All right, that doesn't mean you've solved the problem. That doesn't mean it, right? That just means you got a name up there. So you want to pay money in free agency is when you sign the player, he solves the problem. There's no doubt about it, right? You sign A.J. McCarran, he might sign it, he might solve it, he might not solve it. There's no guarantee he's going to solve it. I mean, this is a fifth round pick.

Do you imagine that draft that he gets drafted in a fifth round? round. Okay, the two guys in the second round, Carr and Garoppolo, are multi-millionaires now. And the guy in the fifth round is about to become a multimillion. Meanwhile, the three guys in the first round, I'm not going to mention the first guy. His initials are B&B. Okay, he's going to make $19 million. And then the other two guys, one's out of the league and one's hurt. It's really remarkable. It just shows you how badly we evaluate quarterbacks in the NFL. And McCarron, I mean, there's been a lot of talk. We joked about this. We remember the picture of Hugh Jackson and has them talking to AJ McCarran,

which I mean, you know, take that for what it's worth. But a lot of people believe that the Cleveland Browns may take a chance on McCarron and do what the Bears did last year with Glyn where we sign a guy that's a veteran, we put him in as our starter, and then we draft a guy of the first pick, and then we let it play out.

We have two guys that we think are capable, and we see how it works. And I think for the Browns, that's probably not a bad idea. I think for the Browns, look, they've got to go two for one. And you know what? If you sign McCarran and you can do it so that if he loses out to a draft pick, But if I'm McCarron, why would I sign with Cleveland without the guarantee that I'm the starter?

That I'm the starter. And you're not going to draft a quarterback. And you have Kaiser still in the building, a guy that was drafted last year. Look, I'll sign with you, okay, but I want to guarantee that you're not going to use your first and second pick on a quarterback. Yeah. I mean, you know that's going to happen or else I'll sign in Minnesota. Okay. No one, I'm going to be the – I want to be the man.

What about Arizona in this whole thing? They're going to give you – they're going to be involved with all these quarterbacks. Okay. It just seems like they're not really a part of any of the conversations. right now. We know Fitzgerald's coming back. That's the word on the street right now. But I mean, they're going to be involved in all these quarterbacks. They have to be. I mean, that's the number one thing. They're sitting there in a division where they don't even have one. Meanwhile, you got Jimmy G. You got golf and you got Wilson. You know, you're four. If they sign McCarran, he's the fourth best quarterback in the conference right now. Yeah, not even close.

It's not even close. So to win the conference, to win the division, you've got to get better than that. So just like on your board, like there was an old, like one of the things that Al was so good about doing was. he would always wanted to compare your guys with the other teams in the division. Like, how does our right tackle stack up against the right tackles of the other three teams? How does our left end stack up against the left tackle for all the three opponents, right? So you've got to really measure that. Like, if you really ingrain your brain into that, like, really ingrain your brain into that and really try to improve.

That's how you get better. It's matchups. Exactly. Absolutely. See, that's why you're the valedictorian. Let's talk about Marty Herney and the Carolina Panthers. He was the interim GM, and they just brought him back last season to be the interim GM.

But that was always the case. He was always, I mean, this is Mr. Richardson's going away gift. Yes, this is the gift that they give him now that he has decided to sell the Panthers. He's got the golden parachute. They got his boy Marty Herney in there to be the GM. They take the interim tag away. He will be making, obviously, all the picks. He is now the general manager of the Carolina Panthers.

Like, that was just a, that was a fallacy. They interviewed a bunch of guys and they were going to hire Marty. I mean, that was, even though Marty had it got suspended for the alleged domestic violence, which he was cleared for, and he was absolved for any wrongdoing on that. I mean, that was always just going to be a fate accompli. And now, now Marty is going to be, his job status is going to be determined by the next owner that comes in there. And you're speaking to the next owner, there are a lot of reports that are coming out that the strongest contender to purchase the Panthers is a minority owner in the Pittsburgh Steelers right

now by the name of David Tepper. Net worth around $11 billion. That's something else. currently owns 5% stake in the Steelers. He's the guy that replaced Jimmy Haslam when he had to divest his version to take the browse. In 2012. It's the best way to buy an NFL team if you really want to buy an NFL team

is get to become a minority partner because you become vetted. They've already done all the work on you and you own enough of the team that you can, hey, you're going to, like this guy knew the Panthers are going to be for sale before anybody else did. And then you've got people

that can approve you for the sale of the team. And so the Richardson family and the Rooney family are so close that this guy, if that's the guy and he wants to buy the team, then he's going to be the guy that comes in there and, you know, and they'll read him the rules and regulations of being an NFL owner and he'll stick

with him. Yeah, Richardson, I should say, the franchise founder, he's seated day-to-day control in December to Tina Becker who's been working with the team forever. If you know that name, you obviously know a little bit about her. And then she just hired Marty Herney here. Okay, that's right. It all comes full circle. Man, I'll tell you what, you got that one passed.

I never saw that one coming. Liberace's gay. I never saw that coming. Yeah, they're just following the plan. The last team that was sold the NFL, Buffalo Bills, 2014, $1.4 billion. To the Bacula. Yeah, most people expect the Panthers to be worth a little bit more than that.

So Tapper, that $11 billion may go about $9.5 billion at the end of this. I mean, I'm sure you could probably get a good loan. I'm sure it'll be all right. I don't think it'll hurt his pocket too much. Yeah, what's his business? What's his line of work? I think he's a hedge fund.

I always wanted to know, like, you know, George Kstand and always... I know, George Kostan. I want to be an architect. Like, maybe I should come back as a hedge fund guy. Like, what is a hedge fund guy? I don't know. I'm going to start Googling it and just start doing things.

I want to be a hedge fund guy. Yeah, me too. I think I'd be a good hedge fund guy. I couldn't wear a tie every day, you know. I could for $11 billion. Yeah, I guess you get of a custom shirt. Whatever it takes. I'm wearing T-shirts now.

You look good at that Nets T-shirt. Thanks. All right. Anything else going on? Oh, I want to bring up the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Chris Baker, a beloved personality if you watch Hard Knocks last year. He signed a three-year, $15 million deal with $6 million guaranteed. last off season, but the Buccaneers

decided to cut ties with Baker. I'm sure he'll be a commodity around the league. I don't know. I mean, his, again, character's an issue. You know, he's kind of a, you know, he's a guy that when he's working to get paid, he's a really good player. When he gets paid, he's not quite a good player. I call it the Albert Hainsworth.

Yeah, see, he's got a little Albert Hainsworth in that. Yeah, I think there's no doubt about that. Have you, speaking of Albert Hainsworth? I don't know how I got on. Have you watched the Olympics? Have you watched it? Oh, I'm watching all the Olympics. It's been great. Like, that's skiing last night. Millie and I were watching out. Like, that's unbelievable. Do about Lindsay Vaughn?

Yeah, I was watching... The downhill skiing? Like, it was amazing. The Italian girl won. Mm-hmm. I needed a gold. I'm really tired of celebrating silvers and bronzes. I was kind of root. Like, if the...

I gotta be honest, take phrase. If the Americans don't win, I root for the Italians. I don't understand. You know, I don't blame you. At least you have some sort of allegiance elsewhere. I mean, like, I'm like... I got nothing. I just, if we don't win, then I'm just going to be sure.

Yeah, but I mean, that was like, it's remarkable how fast and how, I mean, their bodies, You could just see how many ACLs are just getting blown in that sport. Like, oh my God. I just don't know how you practice that. I would love to see that. Yeah, like, where do they do practice that? I don't know. I think you've got to have some money.

I think you've got to have some billions of dollars or know somebody with billions of dollars to practice some of that stuff. It's crazy. They have to be a simulation machine or something like that. I learned that all the tricks. Have you seen the when they do the ramp, when they do the big, I can't remember the name of them, but the skiing with the big jump.

Apparently they do that in a trampoline, like with trampoline testing, and they suit you up. try out tricks and you have to be graded out at some certain level to be able to do it. I don't know. It's all crazy. I think it's impressive, though. The one sport I don't get, the curling I don't get. I don't understand the curl.

See, I've been watching a lot of curling. Explain it to me while we got a second. I've been very upset. Well, ends are like endings. We got 10 ends. I know about all this. And basically, if you have the hammer, that means that you basically are the bottom, like in baseball. So you get the last shot.

And then it's however many closest to. And then if you have the closest ones and you add up the points, John Schuster is our captain, Team Schuster. Why are they dusting the ice? Why are they dust? Well, that's to keep it going faster. Scrubbing, I think, is what they say, the term. I know about the vice skip. That's the second in command.

Why is it a sport, though? I don't know. I think it's for people that... See, I'm really scared to watch this. I'm really scared to like like this because then it looks like shuffleboard, then I've admitted that old. It is a lot like shuffleboard. Then I'm admitted I'm old.

Yeah, it's a lot like shuffleboard. It's exactly like shuffleboard. It's still on ice. They like to slide around. Are they have skis on or they have boots? They're in specific shoes. They're like dancing shoes that you can just slide around. I also Googled that because I thought it was crazy.

I thought I would fall on my ass if I did that. I would too. I'm not a winner person at all. Anyway, that's not where I'm from. Well, Tate Frazier, we'll be back Monday. That was your Olympics talk here on GM Street. We will be back Monday for the first time. Starting next Monday, please tune in.

This has been GM Street, part of the Ringar Podcast Network. Thank you, Mike Lombardi. Thanks, Dave, Frasier.