The Ringer NFL Show - Ranking and Reliving the Raiders’ Rebuilds

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

The Ringer’s own Logan Murdock and Austin Gayle get together to celebrate and rank the moments in recent Raiders history, talk about when they were most optimistic as fans of the team, and agonize over the many unfortunate events that derailed the Silver and Black from achieving success.(00:00) Ranking and reliving the Raiders’ rebuilds(03:32) Why are you a Raiders fan?(13:04) Antonio Pierce replaces Josh McDaniels(17:13) Post–2003 AFC championship vibes(27:28) JaMarcus Russell(37:41) Tom Cable and the 2010 season(44:57) Pete Carroll and Smith(52:36) Fernando Mendoza and Klint Kubiak(58:26) The effects of the Tuck Rule Game(01:04:36) 2016 with Jack Del Rio and Derek Carr(01:10:25) The Randy Moss eraCheck out Tom Brady talking about the Tuck Rule Game here.The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.Host: Austin GayleGuest: Logan MurdockProducer: Chris SuttonVideo Editor: Stefano SanchezProduction Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome into the ringer NFL show. Austin Gail here. We are doing a special Raiders edition. I can't believe they're letting us do this. A Raiders edition of the ringer NFL show. Logan and I just recorded. It's pretty much just me and him naming names who've played for the Raiders over the last 25 years.

We tried to structure it a little bit. We rank kind of our most optimistic moments or the best rebuild moments over the last 25 years. It's felt like 25 years of rebuilding. But it's a fun one. Me and Logan have never podcasted together. It was good to share a Raiders fandom, 23-year-old.

Bay Area natives, big Raiders guys, but I hope you guys like it. Shields on vacation. Not sure when he's coming back. I'm sure he's doing some fun stuff. But until then, you got me and Logan talking Raiders. This spring, denim gets a softer, lighter update. Introducing Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg, a new fit that moves with you. It's everything you want denim to feel like for summer.

Easy, breathable, and effortlessly cool. With a fit that creates natural movement and a wide leg that feels modern, not overwhelming. Plus that signature, wait, for this price, moment. Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg. Welcome into the Ringer NFL show, Austin Gail here for the first time ever. We've never potted together, but we have this deep bond, this deep bond over being fans of the Oakland, L.A., Las Vegas Raiders. It's Logan Murdoch from Real One's, big ringer NBA guy, big ringer guy. I feel like everyone I talk to about you, loves you.

It's great to finally get on the mic with you. I appreciate it. This has been an honor. I'm really excited to be here. just to see you first and foremost because we typically are on slack. Either just trying to spew Raiders propaganda that doesn't exist or we're just trying to like coke through it. So I'm excited to actually do that on podcast form.

And I love The Ringer. How's everybody saying good things about me? I appreciate that. But like, yeah, I want to say this before we start, though. I was really nervous this weekend. And I'm nervous right now going into this pod because I don't know what I am going to do. I have no idea.

This is the first time in a long time that I've going into a podcast, not knowing what I'm going to do. I've gone through a lot of emotions over the last week. Preparing for this podcast. A lot of, is this torture going through the Raiders history?

So I think all we have at this point are cool colors evidenced by our jerseys and our hats and all we have. But I hope we can like make light and make some sense of just the hubris that the Raiders have given us over the last 30 years. Definitely.

To set the table here, producers of the ringer NFL show, Arjuna, Sutton, Nevins, they reached out to the two Raiders fans they probably know. And they're like, hey, we kind of want to go back through all these moments in Raiders fandom, specifically over the last millennium, the last two decades, where you felt like they were finally turning the corner, finally rebuilding, because it feels like the Raiders have been rebuilding every other year for the last 20, 30 years. And how I wanted to start was kind of start with how your fandom started. you're from Oakland, you're from the base, oh my.

But I also want to hear, like, I thought it might make sense to start, like the last time the Raiders were actually good. And I'm not talking about either of the times that made the playoffs since 2002. I'm talking about that 2000-0-2 run with Gruden, Gannon, Gannon, like the last time it went Super Bowl, they got blown out by Gruden. It was a pure revenge game. It was terrible to watch. They knew their plays.

Like, I think it makes sense to start with your fandom. And, like, how I described that fandom to people is, like, that's what my dad told me about. My dad was like, oh, man, the Gannon, the Grudon. era because we're both 32 years old. Like that, I was like six, seven years old when they were going on that run. And it was like, I felt the fandom through my dad being like, wow, like this is how good my team is.

This is how good Gruden is and Gannon is. What was that stage like for you? Yeah, man. It started just in childhood. I don't even think it started before childhood. It started before I was on this earth, right? Like my dad was a, when he was growing up in the Central Valley, he was, you know, him and his brother who chose between the two LA teams at the time. Um, because, you know, where the Central

Valley is located, it's like you can pick, you have a little bit of sauce from northern California, a little bit of sauce from Southern California, right? And so you choose. And my uncle chose the ramps. And my dad, he chose the Raiders because he loved their colors, right? And so, you know, he moves it to the bay for college and it just like kind of sprouts out. And my mother, she's from the East Coast, but her West Coast team is the Raiders, right? And so it was just,

it was kind of ordained on to me, right? And I don't know what time of when it was. I look at pictures of myself when I was a kid. It's my dad with Raiders stuff on. It's me with Raiders stuff on. It's my mom with Raider stuff on.

It was like kind of a cult, you know? It was like so of sports, right? And we lived in, when I was born, we lived in East Oakland, like, near San Antonio Park.

And so that's like a BART station that is, it's near Fruitvale station. And that was like a station away from Coliseum. So like we were just like really, really entrenched into it. And then, you know, later I moved to Lake Merritt. And I just, my childhood was just everything about the Raiders. It was listening to Greg Papa because since the Raiders sucked, you couldn't watch them on television unless maybe you went to Ricky's like closer

where you're from. or they sold out. So I'm listening with just with everything that I have to the Kenwood radio and I'm listening to Greg Papa. And for some reason during my childhood, there was a, his friend, that's one of my homies is Greg Papa.

And one of his best things to do is say touchdown Raiders, right? It's like, touchdown Raiders. He doesn't do it anymore. I tried to get him to do it a few years ago, but he's now the boys of the Niners and he will not do it. but he used to say that a lot. And when I was growing up, he said it less and less because they didn't score that much. And so it was just really just him, just I got the last part of Greg Poppa of basically just him saying,

oh, another fourth down, just trying to make light of a terrible situation. And that was basically my childhood of listening to the Raiders on the radio station, where I will go to a game here and there. One of my first memories was being in Mount Davis. It wasn't my first Raider game. It was my first Raiders memory of going to Mount Davis and pointing out that there was a Chargers fan. This was early in the game, early way before the game, pointing out a Chargers fan in the top

row and somebody else saying, where's the Charter's fan? And throwing a hot dog at him. That was my first ever Raiders memory. My second Raiders memory is leaving a Raiders game. And going near, we were driving back home because we were. you know, the Coliseum is in East Oakland and we're driving back to Lake Merr. And I see one of the paddy wagons

and there's somebody that's in the paddy wagon that is arrested and is showing us his cuffs and smiling. Like, yeah, I did it. Like, it was a badge of honor. So, you know, it was just, it ain't on me. It's in me, man. That's my Raiders origin story.

I freaking love it, dude. What about you? What about you? Mine's not that dissimilar, man. A lot of it was through my dad. Like, my dad was obsessed. with the Raiders, it's all he cared about. And one of my first Raiders' memories was on that Gannon-Gruden run.

And for people who don't know, John Gruden was the youngest coach ever hired in the NFL. He's the youngest coach hired, even when he won the Super Bowl, he's still the youngest coach in the NFL. And he paired up with this guy named Rich Gannon, who was a former fourth-round pick out of Delaware, who the Patriots wanted him to play defensive back or running back.

He, like, slops around the league, never gets a chance to start. And then he goes on like a four-season run of starting 16 games straight, and it's like this whole Gruden Gannon run where he becomes the MVP of the league, a guy they wanted to turn into running back. So like this crazy story with Tim Brown, Jerry Rice,

like they had these guys. And my dad brought or bought this brand new big screen TV. And this is back in the day where like big screen TVs were like the size of like a small kitchen because like you couldn't flat screen them out or anything. And he bought it for that Super Bowl and they obviously got blown out.

And I almost saw him for like a coffee table through the TV. Oh my God. From that moment on, right? The Raiders went on from that point to like lose like 17 straight division games. they had the worst record. Before you talk about, before you talk about, I just want to get back to how big this TV was,

because I had a similar TV. And when we took the TV out, we could put a whole couch where that TV was. Yes, yes, that's exactly how big the TV was. Yes, yes, it was great. And the picture quality was trash. Terrible. But the TV was big.

It was 50 inches. It, like, stood on its own base. It was, like, taller than me. It was insane. So, like, that TV almost gets broken. My dad, I think, a year or two years later, buy season tickets to the Raiders because he finally has money to where like you said like a BART station away from going.

We also had this Oakland A's like decked out RV that we take to the games like pregame games and all that stuff. And like we were then, season ticket holders from like 04 to 2014. Can we pour one out really quickly for like how great pregame used to be? That was like the high point of Raiders fandom even when they sucked. Like there were people, myself included, who never had tickets to games would just go to the pregame.

game because it was so popping. You would just take the bar to Coliseum and then you would go. You'd be a hot dog. You'd listen to it. There would be 40, E40 playing, Drew Down, Rick Rock Beach, too short, all the stuff. It was amazing, man. Like, like, what is your best tailgating experience?

Before we even get to this, so I watched it to the best tailgating experience. I was a kid, one of the first times they ever, you know, they had in the Oakland A's RV. We had this, like, mini 24 inch TV that we'd play Madden on. And I remember, one of my dad's friends were playing Madden, one of them's getting blown out, like, 24 to 7.

I was like, I'll take over for his team. And I end up coming back and winning because I was like a kid and playing Madden all the time then. And like, that was like one of my core moments. I also, my dad would always invite a ton of people to the tailgate because he's like cooking and this was like sober at the time, like easier to hang out with. But like let's not get into that point. But then people would just come for the tailgate. Like they're like, oh, I don't have a ticket to the game actually. I'm not going to go watch them get blown out by this random team. Like I'm just coming to hang out. Eifu, throw the pig skin around. I mean, throwing the football before games like in the parking lot, like was my

favorite. And you mentioned Mount Davis, for those who don't know, Mount Davis was like this section of the old Oakland Coliseum that they would tarp off at times because they couldn't sell those tickets. But my dad had season tickets up in Mount Davis. And like you mentioned like seeing that Chargers fan and stuff. Some of my favorite moments, anytime we'd see any fan in Mountaine. Yes, because you're like boo this man. Like everyone just screaming to boo this man. There's fights all the time. Like anytime before it was a tradition that you'd play the San Francisco 49ers every preseason, right? Because it was like this Battle of the Bay and

easy to do whatever. It was a battle. It was a battle. It was a battle. It was a battle. And then they had to stop doing it because people were like dying out of the game. Somebody got stabbed and camera state. That's right. That's right. That's right. It's crazy that you know all this.

I feel like I'm explaining it's the listeners. But yeah, you're kind of in this. But yeah, like my favorite, you know, tailgating moments were definitely in those early days when we suck. But just like everyone kept coming.

It felt like even as a fan, you were going to battle, bro. You get off the bar. You go through that little, that bridge. The gate tunnel. The gate bridge. It looked like you're either going to battle

or going to prison, bro. Like you were literally walking through that cage and you would walk down. I don't know which way you would walk down, but I would always walk down the right. As soon as you get down, there's like, you go on,

there's, it gets you on to a hill. You either walk right down the hill or left down the hill. I always walk right for some reason, superstitious. I went left, which maybe isn't good, but I went left because our tickets are on that side,

so I'd always go left. Okay, yeah. Even if I was going to Summer Jam or some concerts or something, I always go right. Like, even now, if I ever rarely go to the Coliseum, I'll just always go right.

But yeah, it would feel like you were going to battle. Yeah. So we were, what? So you're 32, I'm 32. We were eight years old when the Raiders lost that Super Bowl in embarrassing fashion against John Gruden. The guy they traded away. The youngest coach in the NFL, the guy that was taking their team to new heights and like restarting the Oakland Raiders. This was like not that far after they moved back to Oakland after going to L.A. for like however long that was. So you felt this like assent with Gruden and this team. They trade him away for two first round picks and $8 million in cash. Face him in the Super Bowl the immediate next year. And Bill Callahan, the coach, the offense coordinator under John Gruden that took over, they're talking about in that civil being like Rich Gannon was really concerned losing Gruden as a play caller and they go into that game and it didn't even look like they belonged on the same field. And ever since then, they've been one of the most losing his teams in the NFL.

Yes, there have been moments. They've cracked the playoff twice, but they haven't won a playoff game since that O2 run. It's the second longest active playoff streak or streak without a playoff win with the Dolphins being number one. This entire time, and this is kind of what we wanted to go through, like ranking these rebuild moments, these refire moments when you felt like, oh my God, are we getting back on track? because they've tried over and over and over again

and they're in the midst of one now with Kubiak, Fernando, Brady, we'll talk about that. But I think what we have to do is kind of go over these two decades and look at what were these moments, right, where you felt like, okay, our chips are back in, we've got the coach, the quarterback, the team. Like, this is the one that can actually go on a run again because I feel like I remember all these times,

my friends always, or my friends always make fun of me being like, oh, this is the Raiders year and I felt that a lot in this run and obviously we haven't had the success. Yeah, let's get to the list, man. What's get the list on your list, I'm just sad. I'm crying. This is, do us. Get to it.

I'm going to go, first, an honorable mention. An honorable mention is Antonio Pierce, in relief of Josh McDaniels, right? Not the immediate season after, but in relief of Josh McDaniels, right? The McDaniels era was truly terrible. Like, awful. The players hated him. The fans hated him. It was terrible.

Pierce, down the stretch, he goes five and four in the nine games that he takes over after they fired McDaniels. He wins, he wins, including all three of those wins, were against division rivals. Remember when he blew out the Chargers, 63 to 21, we upset the Chiefs in Arrowhead on Christmas. And then the close-out season at home, we beat Jared Sidham and Denver.

It's like, okay, wait a second. And then they hire Antonio Pierce and it all goes shit. But wait a second. I was like, okay, this is a little moment here. The cigars with Max Crosby, DeVante Adams. Like it looked like this was it. That's my honorable mention. I don't know if you had honorable mentions before you get to the list.

I didn't have an honorable mention, but that season is a little bittersweet for me. Was that the season where Caleb Williams was ball? out of control at USC and we were supposed to be tanking. It was 2023, so I think it might, I think you might be right, because Caleb was drafted 24. Yeah, so I think that was, so that was why it was bittersweet for me because I was like, yo, man, like, okay, the Raiders suck. That's cool. That's what's up. Okay. That's fine. That's the first time I was like, this is fine. Been here before. Been here before. I'm watching USC.

Caleb Williams has a terrible defense, but he's like racking up numbers. And I'm like, okay, that's my quarterback right there. That's my quarterback right there. And then, Antonio, the Antonio Pierce thing happens. And it's like Prime Raider stuff where the interim actually does better than the actual coach. We're probably going to talk about this a lot during this stretch. But I mean, it was just like the Hugh Jackson's of the world, right? Even the Tom Cables of the world. Like all of these great assistants from like previous coaching staffs that should have probably got fired.

But, you know, we wanted to save money. So we just like, hey, you're, you seem to get the guys in line. So let's come on over and be. the coach. Antonio Pierce was in that mold and I was the whole time I just saw my dream of Caleb Williams and Silver and Black just kind of like doing those. So even it even that's perfect Raiders right there. Even as being an honorable mention and bringing joy, it's actually sucks because,

you know, we didn't get the quarterback. We should have gotten. Yeah, I think I got caught up in and something that I rewatched a ton of the 2000, a kind of O2 run and something that I feel like the Raiders. have been looking for, and it's a commonality in, like, this entire process, these last two decades trying to get back on track, trying to make another Super Bowl run, figure out the coach quarterback, is like the Raiders before, like in that run and something that I think Al Davis believed that we're going to talk about Al, the former owner, his son now owns the team. We'll talk about him,

I'm sure later. But like Al Davis was making sure that they had big badasses. And I think we were, with Antonio Pierce, like, it felt like for the first time in a while we actually had badasses and a vision to like be, like, when we blew out the chargers and, you know, You could feel that identity with like Jack Jones and these defensive women that wanted to hit. Like I feel like that's when I was like, okay, I want the Raiders to still have the identity. Because people always talk about the brand and like I feel like it's, you know, I'm wearing the Bauer's jersey. Get the hat. Like it's some of the easiest, you know, NFL aesthetic to put on because the silver and black is so iconic.

They've never changed their jerseys. But like something that I miss hearing my dad talk about like the 80s Raiders and even like the 70s Raiders is just like how hard-nosed and like under John Madden under Tom Flores. Like how much they just beat the shit out of you. And that offensive line they had in 2000 and 2001, Barry Sims, Barrett Robbins. Like they had Lincoln Kennedy. Lincoln Kennedy was like the sides of the sun. Like they had monsters.

I saw Lincoln Kennedy one time after a football game, after a Raiders home game at the sushi house in Alameda. And he's still like he could get, he could just do a pool right now. Just pull it, the whole ass and just like, and just hit a guy, hit an edge rusher for Tyrone Wheatley. Just spread the fucking. Dude, the wheat man. I fucking love Wheatley.

Just a thumprey, dude. Michael Bush. I want to hear you number five. I can talk about this, this era for a while. I want to hear about your number five. All right. I'm going to go,

my number five is the hours out after the AFC championship game in 2003. When the Raiders beats the Tennessee Titans. Yeah. And, in Network Associates Coliseum, okay? Like, this was,

this was probably the high. highlight of my Raider fandom, right? I actually went to this game. I went to both games. My dad's company, my dad, the company that he worked for had season tickets. And for some reason,

like he got, he got Jugg on the divisional game and the conference championship game. That's true. It was good, right? So I was in, I wasn't in Mount Davis. I was right across from Mount Davis,

but it was jumping. And I remember it being fucking freezing that night. I remember being so cold. It was so cold, but it was so loud. I remember L.L. Cool J. performed at halftime, took off his shirt, and my mom screamed. Very loud in a way that I wasn't, it wasn't ready to get to. But it was one of the great moments, and it gave me so much level of optimism.

The Raiders are back. I mean, they had that team, it was a second year of the receiver trio of Jerry Rice and Tim Brown. Then you had Jerry Porter coming out of the slot. Like you had... The man. You had Charlie Garner, but you also had Zach Crockett as your third down back, right? Or third and shortback, excuse me. Then you had, I believe

you still had, I don't, I think Tyrone Wheatley, I don't know if he was playing on that team. He was falling off a little bit. It was more Garner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, right? And so it felt like, um, you know, all the, I kept, it made me think about those 98 and 99 teams where they go 8 and 8

and you're building something, right? We kind of had that a little bit in the 2010s as well, but like you had those 98-99 teams. Then you had that 2000 team. Then you had the tuck rule game, which I don't really want to talk about what we have to talk about during this. But you have that. And then they come back and then they're the fucking Raiders again. And they're going to the Super Bowl and they have the best office in the league. And they have the best quarterback in the league. Yeah. And they're going to the Super Bowl in San Diego and they're going to beat the brakes off of the Buccaneers. Who are the Buccaneers? Right. That's what we're thinking at that point. I remember that night.

just being so optimistic. Well, no one expected the bucks to get there. No one expected the bucks to get there. They didn't expect them to make it through the NFC division around. I think they were playing in the snow somewhere, and they somehow sneak it through. And the whole thing with the Raiders was they were going to stay on the the West Coast, that entire playoff run,

if they won down the stretch in the regular season, which they did. So they play the Jets at home, which was a rematch of a playoff game. They played previously, and they beat Chad Pendington and the Jets pretty hamily. No, we own the Jets. Yeah, and then Tennessee comes to Oakland, Steve McNair, Eddie George, who was putting a thumping on us in that game. If you go back and watch, he was still getting his, but we just had the better offensive line.

We had the better running backs. We had the better quarterback. We had the better receivers. And then defensively, I remember I wrote a letter. I wrote a handwritten letter to John Porella, the free agent defensive tackle we signed fire to that season. We had Sam Adams added. We had Bill Romanowski on defense. Bill Romanooski called Al Davis. This is a four-time Super Bowl champ who had like the record for consecutive games played at lineback. We had like eight straight seasons of 16 games.

He was found out later that during the stretch he was taking strong. Jayroids, a lot going on with Bill Romanosky, but he calls Al-Manuski. Hey, we kind of knew already. We kind of knew a little bit already. We knew. We knew. We knew. But in 0-2, he's already won four Super Bowls. He calls Al Davis. He's like, I want to help you win another Super Bowl. And then Al Davis calls him back and he's like, I think you look good in silver and black.

And then, like, Romanowski's just there to win a Super Bowl with the Raiders. Can we just like stop and just be like this was like the final eons of Al Davis having like the Pat Riley effect on guys? Yes. Yes. He puts his arm on your shoulder and say, you look great in silver and black. and it just gives you just like super juice, right? And he would do it.

It really meant something, right? Like he did it to Jerry Rice. He did it to Ronnie Lott. He did it to Tim Brown. He basically, he did it to like a lot of watch guys, but his touch just really worked during that time. Yeah.

And not only on that defensive one, you had, you had Rod Woodson in the secondary. You had Charles Woodson as corner, right? You had, you had Buchanan, who was great, Number 31. It was one of my favorite, Philip Buchanan was one of my favorite corners of that era, right? You had a defensive line that was just stout, right?

Just grimy. Rod Coleman. Rod Coleman was a monster, dude. It was an absolute monster. And they finally got a defense that could keep up with the great offense that they had. It was the perfectly built team. It was like if the Clippers had the unction go right, right? Like, it was finally, if you had that old team,

all the NBA teams are trying to do right now, that's what the Raiders did and did it successfully in 2003. Jerry Rice was like 40. Tim Brown, and they kept talking about like the two Hall of Famers. You know, both these guys are going to wear gold jackets. Like Tim Brown's in his late 30s. Jerry Rice is like almost 40. And they're still cutting people up.

And this was like, Gannon's style like paired with Gruden was like, and this is crazy. And I'm not making this comparison completely, but like partly is like kind of Brady-esque. And that he was hyper dink and dunk. And every game you talk about how, you know, Gannon, oh my gosh, he's got 10 completions to 10 different receivers, eight completions to eight different receivers. And he's constantly, you know, start. starting games of like 10 straight completions. He broke the NFL record for completions in a season, I think, in 01.

He also won the MVP that year, and he broke the record for most 300-yard passing games in a single season with 10 in that year. Like, he was breaking ground. Like, this is obviously before the passing era and stuff. And, like, a lot of that's... He was taking it all under center, right? Like, no gun for Gannon back from. Like, all this under center stuff, all this play action screens, like short passes, all this.

And, like, he broke, like, passing records that were previously thought of, like, the Marino era and all that stuff. and obviously how much the league has changed and how much the passing has changed things. Like those records don't mean anything anymore. But like he was breaking ground. Gannon was too, youngest coach in the league,

calling all the plays, like breaking ground on this like West Coast style offense where we don't need real deep speed to beat you. We're just going to cut you up with a thousand paper cuts with, you know, Jerry Rice, Tim Brown. Doug Jolly, the guy who would have no, remember the no gloves, Doug Jolly? Just every time he's catch the ball,

you know exactly what it was. That was a good team. That was a good team. Yeah, well, I mean, not even only that. like, you know, John Gruden's of the the home green tree, which is I believe is the, I mean, it's all Bill Walsh, right? Like the West Coast offense in general is just

all Bill Walsh and you could see just just the way that that West Coast offense was played through perfection, right? You had the perfect West Coast offense type running back in Charlie Garner. You had Tim Brown running fucking cross routes, right? Like you have cross and sit. Like no one can play zone coverage

against them because they just like saw it all out. And like Gannon was a perfectionist. Druden was a professional. My thing was watching replays of Gannon during this stretch and watching the sidearm of him. And this is when I'm coming to base as a quarterback of my own, right? Like I played for the Oakland Dynamites. Let's go.

Fucking right. Yeah. But that my first year was 2001, right? And so, like, the person, and I played quarterback for them. And that was the, the, rich Gannon was the person that I, like, idolized. Like, this is how you be a quarterback, right? It's really cool to, like, have a team that's really good with the quarterback. that you can idolize, right?

We don't have that anymore. And I remember just trying to throw like sidearm passes like him. He would do this thing where he would throw like this and then he would flick it like that, right? He would always flicking like that or he would like do this and like, but he was tall. He didn't have to, he did not have to do it, right? And I remember like a whole practice when I was with the dynamites. I remember we was at, um, we was at, uh, Ira Jenkins part. And I remember trying to be like Rich Gannon throw like this and my coaches would have a fucking flip out.

Brother. Like, no. You throw like this. you throw like this. You do not throw like that. That is how it gets blocked. You are not Rich Gannon. That is a direct quote from coach.

That's so funny. But like you would have the, it was the perfect offense for everybody involved, right? And can we just also talk about how unheard of it is for Rich Gannon to be doing something like this at his age? Brother, there's no comparison to Rich Gannon's career. None.

I was trying to find one. Like he joins the Raiders, I think, at 33 or 34 years old. Right? He had never been like, he'd only been like a week one starter. You're our guy once before. and it was with like his second or 13 by then and like it didn't really pan out. And like you had to find an offense that would work for him.

But then it was this like rare crescendo moment where like Gruden and Gannon getting together. I think it was second, it was Gannon or Grewden's second year, Gannon's first year when like they really started to crescendo and like figure this thing out. And like just a former fourth round pick who the Patriots initially drafted to play running back,

receiver or defense back, literally anything but quarterback. End up panning out as a quarterback. Eventually becomes an MVP, goes to a super like leads a team. It doesn't make sense. he's of the Jim Pluckett, Darrell and Monica, Ken Stabler. Ken Stabler, he's of that ilk, right?

And a perfect Raiders quarterback, if you look down the line, like, if you look like staff or stat, Raiders have terrible quarterbacks. This is not our strong suit, right? But the archetype is they're a quarterback away from just, they just need minimal quarterback play, right, to win a Super Bowl. Reference just by your hat that you're wearing right now and the win over the Vikings, Right. Just minimal quarterback play. We'll do fine. The defense will bring us home. We have some offensive guys. Marcus Allen will get a crazy run and we'll be fine. We'll get the fuck up out of here. Right. But Rich Gannon just kind of threw that archetype on his head because on paper, he is a late stage type of greater quarterback that you get. But we're not expecting him to fucking ball, right? We're not expecting him to be the MVP of the league. Like Rich Gannon basically is Todd Morinovich, what Todd Morinovish was supposed to be. Like he basically was. that, right? And that was the guy

but he's like that at 34. His dad, Marinovich's dad, I'm pretty sure, is the one who's like rubbing HGH on him as a kid. So like he was trying to build the original. He was the original. La Barbaugh. Yes. Look at some Marinovich stories if you can.

This is probably going to go too long if we dive in to Marinovich. I want to take a break and then I'll give you my five. We can spend all day on the Ganon Superboy. I definitely think that's the peak of my lifetime and I don't know how much longer it will be. I hope not that much longer. But when we get back, I'll give you my five. We're going to get a lot sad.

I think moving forward. All right, number five on my list. You mentioned it was a brief moment after that Tennessee win and going into the Super Bowl. This was a brief moment as well. It is 2007-09, I call it the Jamarcus era. And I was in Mount Davis for Jamarcus Russell's first pass, week 13 against Denver.

He was the number one overall pick. He was this guy that, you know, my dad always told me he could throw 40 yards sitting on his ass. And it felt like he was sitting on his ass the entire time he was with the Raiders because his work ethic was terrible. I was colleagues with Bruce Gradykowski, who was a quarterback. I'm sure you know with the Raiders in like 2009, 010, or 09 and 10. And he told me that to get to Marcus Russell to watch film.

And there's a lot of stories like this, like the blank DVD stuff where like they gave him a practice film DVD and said watch it. Then he comes back to day, he says like, yeah, that looks good, but the DVD was blank. This time, Bruce told me that to get him to watch film, he and the other backup quarterback would have to go to his house and bring Wendy's, four double cheese burgers and like four fries. And they'd get into his house. And he'd be laying in this giant ass bed. And there's always like other people in his house. No one really knew who they were.

There are other people there. This guy like held out for like a $60 million contract. Like held out three week one. He's like a piece of shit for all the money. And then this year, like they're trying to get him to watch film. And they literally like give him the burgers and then go through the film with him just to get him to watch it. Like this is like the kind of laziness that was there.

And like why I was excited, it was the first time that we'd invested in my lifetime at first round pick in a quarterback. because the first time we invested the number one overall pick and a quarterback and all the like ceilings that people talk about with this guy like rocket arm, 80 yards on his feet, just like legitimately like hose of an arm and this big body quarterback that I thought was going to change things.

After that first pass, plays a little bit, you know, the rest of that season doesn't look that good. And even going into 09 because he plays, I think he gets his first official start the last year or last game of that 2007 season kind of looks like shit against San Diego. And then 2009, they kind of give the keys to him. And it's just a complete disaster.

One of the worst seasons in Raider. history gets into, or no, that's 08 and then 09 by then. He's benched and Tom Cable benged him and they never really play him again. He's completely out. But, you know, to say you always love your first, you know, the Michael Bush, Darren McFadden, Zach Miller, Johnny Lee Higgins, Nomdi Awesomewa, Derek Burgess. Like, we had guys. And I thought Jamarcus was going to be able to unlock this piece and, like,

legitimately sets the franchise back another 20 years. And they had not drafted a first-round quarterback, you know, since until Fernando this year, and obviously the first overall pick as well. It has been 20 years since we've made that kind of investment. I do think Jamarcus is a big reason why the league or the team was set back as far as it was. Okay, so there's a lot of things to go with this.

First off, I'm going to, I have compiled a list of quotes from people going into the draft about Jamarcus. Oh, let's go. I can't remember being in such all of a quarterback in my decade of attending combines and pro days. Tom McShay. John Elway-like. ESPN's Mel Khyper.

John Elway-like. It was very upsetting to watch Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, and all these guys beaten over the head like they have flaws. Cleveland GM, Phil Savage. Wow. So that was a work,

and I just want to, I just want to say, Jamarcus Russell at LSU was fucking awesome. Can we just acknowledge that, please? Can we just acknowledge that he was awesome in his junior year? He wins the Manning Award. when his MVP of this sugar bowl against Brady Quinn

kicked this shit out of Notre Dame, right? It was just like just an all-ploid. And this is also coming on the heels of what we saw in the early 2000s from a guy like Dante Colpepper, right? Like we really love these big quarterbacks, right? Who could be mobile, right? And black. And he comes into this.

And it seemed like it was the perfect storm of bad team, bad fit, or as a point, player, right? Because you can pile on your markers Russell all day. And I am going to at some points in this segment. But we do have to acknowledge the team that he was going into, right? This wasn't like it was a team that

that was organizationally sound. You know what I mean? That could get a quarterback to read the playbook and that there was just so much going on, right? Langevin didn't even want him. It was so funny because I sent you the video of the time when Jamarcus Russell got drafted. I sent you a video on Slack.

And it's such an emotional roller coaster because up until that, up until the time Jamarcus Russell's name gets called, I didn't even realize this. I just thought, like, my memory back in the day just was like, oh, Jamarcus Russell was due the consist of number one pick like he just was, right? Even over Calvin Johnson, that's how good of his season that he had and the Raiders to the quarterback. But if you look at that video of Jamarcus getting traded or getting drafted, excuse me.

It's up until the last minute, the Raiders are thinking about trading the pick, trading down to get Brady Quinn. They're also thinking about, okay, maybe we should get Calvin Johnson. There's just so much going on. They took like five minutes to figure out of the decision and then Al-Dade was like, no, we're picking

Jim Marcus Russell because I said so. And he goes into that organization that is like just from the Stone Ages. Like the Raiders from all like throughout my existence have been in the Stone Age but like to give you guys some perspective of how much the Stone Age the Raiders were in they would up until like

2011 up until Al Davis's dead I believe they were the way that they got their checks were they would go to the Oakland Hilton and pick up paper checks. Wait I didn't know that I did not know that. Yes so they this is the organization he's going into right

like the receivers are bad line Receivers are bad, but even as a team, they cut corners on salary, they cut corners on everything, right? Like, they don't have a coach put in place. We were gritty, though. We were gritty. Like, Mount Davis and the Oakland call, or then it was

probably McAfee by then, like, Maccify by then. We know this is the worst stadium. We know we have a baseball team. This is the worst organization in professional sports. Yeah, right? And then you bring a guy who clearly, like, you know, how it looks at what we know now how to substance abuse problem, right?

And then, like, you bring him into this. You don't give him any guidance, right? You don't give him anything to, you know, lay his hat on. He sees just the dysfunction. It's not like, you don't bring a guy like that into an organization like that. There was a, it was an interview that, this brings him back to Jim Marcus. Russell kind of just seen where his mind was at the time. I was watching him on the pivot podcast that he had.

Really good interview. You guys should go check it out. But one of the things that he said was like, I went into, you know, this building. And I quickly realized that, like, shoot, if you put Tom Brady or, or, or Peyton Manning in this building, it wouldn't turn things around. And I'm like, you're the quarterback. It's literally your job.

One, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady would turn this thing around. And it's literally your job to do so, right? So, like, he just clearly didn't understand the weight of what being a quarterback on a professional level is, right? Because at that time, especially then in college, you're in a more structured environment. And, you know, everything is kind of put in your hands. And, you know, when you're in the professional ranks,

you're pretty much doing, have all that time to yourself. And the Raiders of all places are not going to put program in place to help you be good. So it was terrible all the way around. No, it was a bad. I mean, Al had like, it was in the last, you know, few years of his life and still had like kind of complete ownership of the decisions that were being made. Lane Kiffin, who he hired, you know, kind of, I think, I think thinking about Gruden at the moment. He was the youngest coach in the NFL, youngest coach ever hired when Lane Kiffin was hired for that 2007 season. He was only 31 years old.

Lane Kiffin had never been a head coach at any level ever before. And now he's the head coach of the Oakland Raiders with the number one overall pick with a quarterback. Like you said, like we find out later, has substance problems, substance abuse problems, but then also has like an overall like work ethic problem that like he has to navigate. And, you know, Lane Kiffin's not even the own, you know, the leader on this team. He's barely 31, 32 years old. Like I feel like it was going to be very difficult for Lane to handle this situation. Like Warren Sapp was on the team.

And he didn't want him. And he didn't, and he wanted Megatron. Like Lane Kiffin has said that he wanted Calvin Johnson. Which also, like I did, it does make sense in hindsight, but also, bro, who's going to throw to Calvin Johnson? Yeah, yeah, no. I mean, we had Charlie Frye, Kyle Bowler, Andrew Walter, Bruce Crack. It was like a really bad stretch of quarterbacks.

And, like, what ends up happening with Lane? So he has that 07 season where Jamarcus doesn't even start playing until week 13. The quarterback's ahead of them. I think it was like Josh McCown and like dog shit. Team looks like that, look bad. Four games into next season. Remember, this guy has never been a head coach ever. Four games into 2008, fire.

They fire Lane Kiffin. He's not. I barely even scratching the service on getting experience. They fire him. They move on to Tom Cable, who's kind of fucking awesome. He, like, punches a guy in 2009, which is great. He's one of my moments coming up.

We'll get to him later. But we'll get into, we'll talk Tom Cable. But in 09, Cable gives him the keys because Al's like, you've got to start this guy. He plays like shit. And then 08, they play like shit. And then 09, they end up benching him. And when you go back and look at,

I pulled this data, to Marcus Russell, among all quarterbacks with at least 700 dropbacks in their career since the year 2000. It's 153 total. He has the worst EPA per dropback and success rate and completion rate. No quarterback in the last 26 years has ever done worse with 700 dropbacks that Marcus Russell has.

He was literally the worst. Zach Wilson's the only one who's even coming close. And you're right in that it was, you know, a handful of errors. It was like a comedy of errors that kind of led to this situation. But I do think that, you know, I was watching some old regular season games from 2008 and 2009. And the broadcasters are like, this Raider team booze when Jarcoszels comes in. this Raiders fans boo when he comes in. Like, we were done with him early in 2008.

Like, he barely got a year and a half before Raiders fans were upset with just all the stuff that we were hearing about his work ethic and him not getting better and him just looking like kind of just a piece of shit. And then they fire lane and we're trying to move on. Like that whole, that whole DeMarcus runs. It was the second that we drafted him, I'm like, oh, my God, we're turning the corner. And then the following year, draft Aaron McFadden, who's awesome. Then we draft year was here at Bay.

We're trying to throw the resources at it. And it just never panned out. All right. We got to stop talking to Marcus Russell, though. You got to give me your number four, four on the list. I'm just, I think I want to just bring some happiness right here, right? I don't want to do it. I'm sorry, I brought us down.

I brought us down. It's fine. I'm going to go with the 2010 season, um, where the Raiders go, I believe, that's number three on my list. That's number three. They go seven and nine. They, they, they sweep the division. Tom Cable's the, the coach of the team.

Um, I was at the Chiefs game. They played the Chiefs midseason. It was a weird, brainy game that they had. And that was a Jacoby Ford game where, where, yeah, I think, I think, it's so sick. The Jacoby Ford game. YouTube the Jacoby Ford game. It's in the rain.

I was in the black hole for the Jacoby Ford game. I was in the black hole. My old homie snuck down to go walk down for that game. And it was incredible. There was a fight that happened.

It was amazing. But that game was great. The Raiders swept the division. Every victory came against the rival. They even beat the Seahawks who was basically a division rival for a long time. They actually went 8 and 8. That team was coached by Tom Cable.

Offensive coordinator was Hugh Jackson, who I'm sure we will talk about for a minute, but they beat the Chargers twice. They beat the Chiefs twice. They beat the breaks off the Broncos. Derek Fadden was a man. Like, it was just, oh, my God. And it was the best kind of season. I really truly believe this.

The second best season that you can have as a fan of a team, behind obviously the championship winning team is the first season where your team just shows some spunk right where they go eight and eight they're not there's no expectations but they defy even the ones that they do have it was great Jason Campbell was my quarterback

why not right why to fuck not and there was it was Jacoby Ford was my white out it was great it was great there were vibes there were no expectations it was a fun one. The thing about the Raiders, though,

is you have to only take them in seasons because they are going, like, just take it for what it is throughout the season because it's not a promise of anything to come, is all I would say. But the 2010 team was my moment where I felt a lot of optimism. And it was a great,

it's an unimpeachable year. There's nothing you can tell me. It's like, it's similar to 2015. It's great. I look back on it, Pondley. I have it number three on my list, skipping number four. Number three, I call it the cable guy

and Jason Campbell, not Hugh Jackson. I have it stretching out from 2010 to 2011. The 11 being that first six games with Jason Campbell before he breaks his collarbone in week six, up 14-7 against the Browns. This is... It's within days after Al Davis has died.

Al Davis, one of the last things that he did was he did not renew the contract with Tom Cable from 2010, that cool 8-8 season. Michael Bush and Derek Fadner, like this sick-ass combo, and we're finally figuring out a quarterback like Jason Campbell, I think was 29 years old in 2009. we brought him in and, like, we weren't expecting much. But, like, you could tell he was just a Raider.

Like, right away, he felt like a Raider and just, like, his greediness and had better scramble ability than Marcus Russell ever had. Like, you started to just see a little bit more mobility, better decision-making, like, it was all this no interception stuff. 2011 starts. Jason Camel goes four and two to start that season.

Like, Raiders are looking good. Tom Cable's gone, but Hugh Jackson's the coach. He breaks his collarbone within days after Al Davis dying. And Hugh Jackson, this is in my dishonorable mention. Hugh Jackson, like, grabs hold of the franchise. He's basically Doc Rivers. He's basically Doc Rivers in 2014 with the Clippers.

He's like the GM owner. Like Hugh Jackson's one of like losing his head coaches of all time. Like he has this run with the Browns. That's on hard knocks. That's like deplorable. Like makes him look. I don't think you ever got a job after that like how bad he looked. And Hugh Jackson takes the role the reins of this team and says,

we're trading two first round picks or a first and a second round pick that would have became another first if they made the AFC championship hilarious. But they trade a first and a second for Carson Palmer halfway through the season, this trade that kind of comes through, like I said, within days after Al Dave was dying. And he's like legitimately tries to turn the franchise over like overnight. And Carson Palmer doesn't really fan out. Doesn't look anything like what we have a couple good games. I had a couple of good games. Moments. But like even when you look at like from 2010 to 2011 or 2011 to 2012 like that stretch where Carson Palmer's playing, he's like very dead on with

what Campbell, like the production he was giving us from an efficiency perspective before then. It just felt like we took two steps backward. Right? After Tom Cable stuff. Austin, can I be real though? I kind of liked it when it happened. I wasn't mad at it what it happened. I was pissed. I was like, I fucked it went to happen. I was not pissed.

I was like, let's keep it going. Let's keep it. It was just pure hubris. And honestly, even with the benefit of hindsight, and it's even stupid that they did it, and all for all the reasons that you say it does, I looked at a 45-minute highlight take from that year. I got a jolt.

I got a jolt. No, from the team in general, I just got a jolt. Oh, I see. Oh, this was great. I wanted just to compare the trade that first and second round pick for Carson. It reminds me so much and it reminded me at the time

and when we traded a first and Napoleon Harris for Randy Moss. And he bring Randy Moss over and he plays like fine. I mean, people are like, oh my God, he was terrible. Like he like had a thousand yards in his first year.

Like he wasn't, he clearly didn't want a quarterman, yeah, it was all bad, right? But like we brought Randy Moss in. He clearly didn't want to be there. He was fine. Then we trade him for scraps and he odds up, you know,

having this record season with the Patriots. And then with Carson, Palmer, we traded a first and second round pick for him in 2011, and we traded him for a six and seventh round pick swap two years later. It's like, what the fuck are we doing? Like, they, they were so short-sided immediately after Al died. And it took Reggie McKenzie years to get back on track. Exactly. Exactly. Yep, that's the GM who originally drafted Derek Carr and Kille Mack and that's like this new reset that we'll probably get to eventually. But Reggie McKenzie, one of the first things that he did is like, the cap situation's terrible. Remember

when they signed, who was it, Jalen Walker or was it Jalen Walker that, or no, I'm I'm missing it. Like the receiver over from the Broncos who was, ah, okay, it started with a Jay, but he was, Jvonne Walker.

Javon Walker was an absolute dumpster fire for aiding signing. Like, it just started to turn into all that. But, yeah, man. Yeah, I had it.

The fun anecdote that I do have from that season, though, was my cousin actually played for that Raiders team. The 2010 and old 2011 team. Jerome Boyd. Wow. Okay.

He played for that team. And I remember him, I remember, I was still holding on to the football dream, and I remember asking it because they played against the Green Bay Packers that year. And I was like, yo, what's it like going up against Aaron Rogers? Jerome was a strong safety for the team.

And like, what's my going against Aaron Rogers? And he was like, yeah, man, he's so smart. I remember I went in for a blitz, like, just to, like, act like I was about the blitz. And Aaron Rogers is, like, doing his little calls and being like, 30's not doing shit. Because Zerom was at the line. He was like 30's not going to do shit.

Don't even worry about him. And then he just threw a bomb. And that was a game. I think the Pagers blew out the Raiders. But that was a fun story because, like, it was really cool that my cousin was on my favorite team. That was really good. Yeah, that's safe. Yeah.

I don't think I ever had a close friend play for the Raiders. I would have been a big fan. I remember, yeah, I think, I don't remember Boyd, though. I would have to have to go back and grind the tape. I want to get to my number four. And I want to move quickly because I should have, this should have never happened. but I was drunkenly optimistic when Pete Carroll and Gino Smith was happening last year.

We both were. No, we both were. I remember being like hammered at my basketball party. I got married last year. We made the trade for Gino Smith. It was like a third round pick and I was like, dude. We were coming off the whole like Daniels Antonio Pierce stuff that was like tragic. I felt like we were getting an adult in the room.

We're bringing in Gino. I was excited by the Chip Kelly thing at the time, not really thinking about them never having worked together. and maybe that being a problem. I also was not thinking enough about Pete Carroll's age or any of that, but I got caught sipping the Kool-Aid thinking Brock Bowers, Michael Mayer,

you know, Gentile. I was like, you know what? Maybe this will work. Maybe this is what we needed. But you weren't wrong, though. You were not wrong. I was right there with you. We were in the Slack together

where we were just like, oh, it was a summer of just like, fuck it, right? Yeah. Pete Carroll's the coach, fuck it, right? Chip Kelly, I said, This is verbatim. I wouldn't want him to be my head coach, but like,

offensive coordinator, that sounds cool. Fuck it, right? Let's just do it. Let's go ahead. And then I feel like me and you almost both got fired for how excited we were after the first game against the past.

We were really, really too excited. We were talking a lot of shit in those ringer slacks. And I thought I was going to get fired. I'm not going to lie. I thought it was over with. I almost texted Bill. I was like,

hey, better luck, man, some bullshit. I don't know what I said. I think I didn't text him, but I almost did. If I did,

it would have been like the unsin. because like it was that way. Well, when Gino threw that fucking pass, towards the end to seal that game against the Patriots, I was all in. I tweeted and then deleted. Like the rain on the road in week one.

No, I tweeted and then deleted. I said this was what Jamarcus Russell was supposed to be and I did the video of that and then I just said, you know what, this is only week one and I deleted it. And I was done with Twitter after that. They beat the team that ends up going to Super Bowl

and the Patriots. And I remember after that game feeling like, this is legit. Gino threw a 300 plus yards, Brock looks good, Mayor looks good, looks like we can run the ball. Defense we're still figuring out. Gentie is a boy.

Jinty is good. Yes, yes. And then I feel like Bowers gets hurt in that game. You're starting to feel it. You're starting to see Colton Miller goes down on the left tackle. I think it was injuries that stacked up.

Mayor got hurt, I think got concussions or something. And then, you know, it all started to kind of like collapse in. When the mistakes start to add up, and then you find out, you know, Pete's sons. They know, Dave and Kelly is my office coordinator. Damn. Yes, yes.

Oh, then the reports were like, Chip Kelly's calling plays that they didn't practice in the week prior. The offensive line for the Raiders was meeting without the offensive line coach, Pete's son, because they felt like they couldn't get better with him. That's how bad things were when you start to see the reports coming out. The whole Pete, Chip, his son's Gino experience really felt flat in his face when none of these guys knew how to work together to solve these problems. And even the guys, even working on their own, they did not have the chops to really iron out. Well, we're going to be a lot of problems with the roster and all that stuff overall.

I feel like we were right, like you said, got to be hyped going in, but the wheels fell off quickly and the reasons for them falling off kind of pretty clear. Pete doesn't have it anymore. You know, the Seattle Seahawks don't win the Super Bowl last year with Mike McDonald. If they stayed committed, and a lot of teams would have done this, stayed committed to Pete before, like, he was willing to retire. Like they gave him this whole golden parachute senior advisor bullshit, and then he tries to come back coaching next year and he clearly doesn't have it.

Well, it was like the right-of-way, man. We like to get a lot of people that are washed and passed at prime, right? It worked in the early 2000s. And we've just been trying to do that formula ever since. Do you want Art Shell? Fuck it. Let's do it. Let's give him.

He hasn't coached 20 years. Let's have him coach Randy Moss. Right? Let's have him coach Warren Sapp. I'm just sad right now. God, Warren's Sapp. Good writer. So he had a good year.

They were, they had a number, he led a number two defense. But, you know, Art Shale was coaching and we're two and 14. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's take another break and then we'll get to our top three. You already know my three with the cable guy and Jason Campbell, but you don't know my top two.

We'll get to your top three. Let's take a break real quick. All right. It's time for number three. I want to know where you're going. I'm ready to relive these moments. I have like, I hope it's not the one. The one I have saved for one,

I'm really excited to relive those moments with you, but let's hear your three. The 2015 Raiders. Okay. Which is the season, like I said previously, I loved the season before the season, and this was absolutely the season before the season. The Raiders go seven and nine,

laying the foundation for what will be their 12 and four, postseason. run in 2016. But this is when the babies kind of come into form, right? This is when Reggie McKenzie's draft picks finally blossom, right? You got Derek Hart quarterback just slinging the ball. He's not scared in the pocket. This is the year where the comeback year where he's just like slinging it to Amari Cooper.

This is when Latavius Murray is like, is he McFadden 2.0? I don't know if he's really good. I like it. I like it. Calil Mack, who's like, is beginning a career where he's one of the defining edge rushers. of a generation, right? And there were just like really fun things, man, like that last second fade in Baltimore, right?

You had Michael Crabtree who was just amazing, right? Also, another pickup where you think the guy is washed and he goes to the Raiders and he becomes something, right? Yes, yes. And they beat the Broncos in Denver where Khalil Mack had five sacks, right? Like, it's like we're building something. We're not just getting washed stars off the scrap heap, right? We're not getting disgruntled scars without a plan.

we have something, right? Woodson's on the team. Like, yeah, he comes back. He comes back. Holding up the O, like, it was so sick when in those games where he's just like holding up to O the Black Hole and you're like, dude, I love Woodson so much. Woodson is like one of my favorite raiders.

He is my favorite Raider. He's my favorite Raider that we should not let him go. He should have, he did end his career in Silver and Black, but he should have never left. Yeah. So 2015 Raiders are my, right? It's also you're one of Del Rio, right? Like, that's the, you know, I think a commonality that I, I've hit on a bunch when I've written about the Raiders for the ringer just talked about it is

how many coaches they've hired and fired really since that 2000 run, right? Like starting with trading John Gruden and promoting the offensive coordinator Bill Callahan who didn't even want to call plays. He ended up having Mark Trussman called plays for that Super Bowl run. Like since then, they've had 14 different head coaches. No other team has had more than 11. That's the Cleveland Browns. And the average for every NFL team since then is seven. They've had double the average. And so much of it is this like snips, snap and like kind of the theme for this list. It's like it's just a constant restart.

Pete Carroll and Gino Smith and Chip Kelly, let's get it going. Like, uh-oh, 2010, here comes Tom Cable and Jason Campbell and Darren McFadden and Michael Bush and Hayward Bay and then it like resets again. And like then they fire Cable and bring in Hugh Jackson. And then they fire Josh McDaniels and bring in Pierce. And then they fire Dennis Allen and bring in the next guy. Like they just have cycled through so many coaches. And Del Rio, in 2015, you started to feel it.

we'll get to my list when we start talking about 2016. But, like, Del Rio, you could really feel, like, again, like, and this is like easy to say to you, but hard to kind of say to the listeners. It's like, he felt like a Raider, like right away. This guy is gritty. He's tough. He wants to beat people up.

He wants, like, and like, yes. He's going to go for two to win a game and the season open on a fucking road. That's 2016. We're going to get to 2016. We've got to save for 2016. I'm going to jump to my number two. And this might be like, giving things away. But I think we have to talk about this before we get to 2016.

Number two is right freaking now, dude. Tom Brady, Fernando Mendoza, Clint Kubiak. I think that a lot of the things that I want with a, this is the first, first round pick at quarterback the Raiders have made since Jamarcus Russell. It's the first number of overall pick they've obviously made a quarterback since Jamarcus. I think Fernando Mendoza is nowhere near the armed talent and ceiling that people thought to Marcus Russell was coming out. But the floor might be 10 stories higher with the work ethic and all this character stuff that we're really excited by. And I think the, you know, you mentioned is this like calamity of errors when Jamarcus came in with Lane Kiffin, the youngest coach ever hired, never been a head coach before, was not going to give that long

of a least, literally lasted a season in four games, to Kubiak, who you could argue in this coaching cycle where there were 10 openings, he was maybe the most attractive option. Obviously, there was DeFansky and some others, but like Kubiak just led his team in the Super Bowl, led Sam Darnold to the Super Bowl, and I think understands this undercenter play action, use a fullback, use tight ends game that the offense is going. He, if all things go well, will be the offensive play caller and head coach for Fernando for the next five years plus, right? And then you add on top of that, you know, this I think is the first team that Tom Brady's name is sharp beat all over it. And like it or not, and like if I, you know, do telling my dad that Brady owns a certain percentage of

the team now, like, I think he would fucking kill me if he knew that. But like, I think that Brady, having his name all over this team and this coaching quarterback combination and them going in being like, this is what has to work. We have to figure this out with this trio. And I think it's the best bet on a trio that they've made in a while. I do think that I'm more hype than I was over Pete and Gino last year. And this is maybe not as exciting, obviously, as number one on my list.

But I feel really excited to root for number one overall pick again. And it kind of throw my whole head at like, okay, we're rebuilding around this group. And this is what we have to build up. because it feels like we don't have to, if things go right, we start again in two or three years. We should be able to build something up over the next four to six, six to ten, something that we felt like we're doing with Derek Carr,

but we know all the things that happen with that and, like, him never really reaching up to that. And he wasn't obviously a first round pick. He wasn't this investment that we have. So right or wrong, I am excited about this Raiders team. I'm excited about Fernando. I'm excited about Coobes and Brady's name on it. I just think he needs, you know, we need to know if he has it.

And like going in on this coach and quarterback, like, I think I'm happy he's getting a shot, because right he owns the team and if he's going to be involved in these decisions moving forward he needs to have one on the record. It's really hard for you to root for Tom Brady. I hate it. I fucking hate it, man. It's very hard to root for Tom Brady.

John Gruden's last game coaching the Raiders before Gruden part two, which we don't necessarily have to discuss, was the tuck roll game. And I think it really changed him. I think it changed his life. It legitimately changed his life. They lose the AFC championship game and a game they should have won, some bullshit tuck roll thing. They get us the Super Bowl that he owes us.

That's all I want. The Super Bowl that he owes us. I wish. I mean, I guess I'm talking up. I can talk more into the roster, too. I feel like the roster is like better than people saying they added Linderbom. They paid big for two for agent linebackers and have played together before. If this team is healthy, Colt Miller, Brock Bowers, Linderbom, Max Crosby,

Genty. I think there is enough talent with this new quarterback, with this new coach, and how they want to bring him in with Kirk. Like, I feel like there is momentum to the Raiders finally having like a foundation to build on, something close to maybe what they thought they had. 2014, 2015, when they all started to come together with Cleo Mac, Amar Cooper, Derek Hart. It's like, okay, we are building the foundation up again. I just want six wins. It's all I need. Six wins, baby.

When do you want Fernando to play, ideally? Because obviously, there's a lot of speculation on like, he should start week one. And they're like, we're not starting in week one. We're going to start Kirk Cousins out of the gate. Next season. Yeah. Maybe next season. Or maybe late this season, but I'm cool with next season. Let me throw something at you. Let me throw something at you. He starts after the buy. I think our buy is, like week 12, week 13 this year. There's five games after the buy.

Okay. I'll read you the games. He gets to, we host the Chargers, we host the Broncos. Remember, this is after the buy. We host the Chargers, host the Broncos, host the Titans. Three straight home games for him to start,

two against division rivals. Then we go on the road against Arizona, and we go on the road to finish the year against the Chiefs. He gets all three division rivals, two at home, one on the road against the Chiefs, in Arrowhead, and then he gets two. We own the Chiefs in Arrowhead. Exactly.

We own the sheets in air. So you get five games. Two against shitty non-division opponents, Titans and Cardinals. You get three straight home games out of the buy. And then you get all three division rivals, a taste of the rivalry going into year two. Unless Kirk has us, like, competing for a playoff spot, I'm completely fine with that being the plan going in.

The plan going in is like, hey. I will say this. If Kirk Cuck, you can talk me into this. If Kirk Cousins can get you like a good month and a half, right? And then, you know, he kind of wore. and it's like it's very it's time to put in Fernando you can get six wins out of that that's fine I think yeah I'm not worried about wins actually I'm worried about how many games Fernando plays and I think Fernando the most he should play is like five I think he's just so scarred from Jim Marcus roughly

experience man like I'm just I'm just a completely different world I know he's not that I know he's not that I'm just I got to wait and see I last summer I was really I was very excited you talked me into a lot of stuff I was like really really really geek. I just got to see it happen, man. You know, I really, also, by the way, I'm just going to ask for this before I get into my my next moment. Tickets for Raiders, miners are through the route. So any ringer people or anybody out there listening want to like, you know, how about you, boy? In San Francisco, that would be sick.

In Santa Clara. Yeah, yeah, it's a train ride. Okay, we got to get this out of the way. I'm going to go to mine. This is number two. Yeah. It's number two. Okay, I'm going to go with the, because we've got to get it out of the way. Let's do the tuck rule game, man. Let's go in the season going with the tuck rule.

We have to do it. We're going back. I love it. We have to do it. Where were you when it happened? Everybody knows who's listening. I was with my dad. I was with my dad watching it on TV.

And I mean, he just legitimately was jumping up and down, screaming expletives. And like, I didn't understand what was happening. I did not understand how, how, like, the call could get reversed. Like the call on the field was a fumble. And there was enough evidence.

And it still is a fumble. There's enough evidence to not just support that it was not a fumble, but enough evidence to overturn the call on a field to call in a pass. And like, clearly. And like this whole tuckeral thing,

like it's like, well, he doesn't have to be throwing a pass. If he tucks it with the intent, it's all bullshit. This is a fumble. Can I read the rule? Can I read the rule? Can I read the rule.

NFL rule 3, sex and 22 article 2, note two. when an offensive player is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his arms starts a forward pass. Even if the player loses possession of the ball, he is attempting to tuck it back toward its body. Also, if the player has tucked the ball into his body and loses the possession, it is a fumble.

This rule was abolished on March 20, 2013, by a 29-1 boat. Just one of the dumbest rules that ever be in the book and it's a nonsensical rule that if the quarterback is even if he's still trying to tuck it, it counts as a pass. That is not, there's a reason it was abolish. Like, it makes no sense at all. And you watch it 100 times over

and every single time, like it just makes zero sense to make all this past. I don't know if this has ever been, this has ever been axed, but do you think this is like karma for the Holy Roller all the shit that happened for us in the 70s? We just got all the luck in the world. There was a sea of hands.

The sea of hands against the dolphin. the Holy Roller, the ghost of the post. I mean, we were also like cheating a bunch in the 80s and 90s. Or the 70s and 80s just like filling our... But everybody was. Everyone was. Everyone was. I don't know if I'm... I think it was just legitimately an awful...

Like, you see the... I've seen the interview of the ref who called and he's like, it's still an incomplete pass. It's just like an insanely abhorrent error by that ref. Like, I don't even think Brady thought it was a pass. Like, no one was advocating that was. That was good. Hold on, hold on.

So there is a clip. that maybe we put it in the scripture or whatever. There's a clip that I sent you. I don't know if it's a football life or something. It might be a football life on the tuck rule, and it's Brady and Charles Woodson discussing it. And Brady's basically just saying it was a fumble, right? He's basically just saying it when I won a championship.

It was perfect Patriots, just propaganda there, right? How did that video make you feel, knowing that everybody knows it was a fumble? Probably the ref does, too. Just doesn't want to admit it. But how does that make you feel that over all these years? I got a stomach ache when I saw Brady

trying to play fight Charles Woodson after I think Brady's off-field behavior is cringy a lot of the time and I think that it sucks that Gruden never got another chance I obviously got Gruden part two and like when he was hired back in like 2018 or whatever like

but like that was the last game we saw that combination of Gruden Gruden Gannon Gannon like that team that like went to the Super Bowl the next year. That was the last time we saw a Gruden a piece of it. The only time we saw Gruden again was in the Super Bowl when they beat the shit out. I feel like it was such a raw deal

for Gruden to go out like that. And you read back on what was happening and why they traded Gruden for two first round picks in that off season. It was like contract negotiations stalled and you know it was probably some big ego play between the youngest head coach in the NFL, some fiery guy that's like changing offense for you and Al Davis who obviously is like

his wear of the highway type of thing. And when they finally got that opportunity to maybe get two first round picks. The bucks were talking about firing. Dungey and hiring Bill Barsels. But then those didn't end up going through, so they ended up making this big trade for Gruden. I just can't believe that Al, with everything that he's known, like hiring

Flores, hiring Madden, like, why he fell trading Gruden when he did was going to actually make this team better. And I'm sure he... But then you go to that off season, they spent so much money in free agency. They signed Rod Woodson. They signed John Porella. They signed Sam Adams. They signed Wilmanowski all on defense.

And I think Al Al was like, fuck it. I'm just going to pay all this money to make the defense sick. And as long as, you know, Callahan was the OC, just kind of keep this offensive float, we should be good. And he was kind of right. But every year after that, every year we've been battling to kind of recreate that like Gruden level leadership that we had in part one, like it just hasn't happened. This is from the great Scott Osler. Okay. This is a column right before, I believe it was right after Gruden left. And he said, this is the relationship. He speaks on the relationship between Al Davis and John Gruden. And he

compares them to young Elvis and old Elvis. Old Elvis is Davis, the Raiders godfather. He's the NFL's Rebel Without a Pause. Creator of the Raider Mystique, he still greases his hair on his back like Grandpa Rock and is deeply involved with the team and speaks in public as often as the real Elvis. Young Elvis is Gruden, the first year rock star coach in big sports since Pat Riley Catwalk the sidelines for the Lakers and Knicks. If someone put out a calendar of hunky coaches,

Gruden would be January through June. His player sees him as Sergeant Rock, buoyant and teeth leading them out of the trench. And that's what was going at each other, right? It was very much a battle of egos, right? Al Davis didn't want to pay him. He pays players. That's the old school ownership state of mind.

And he didn't want to pay Gruden, and Gruden was getting a little bit too much power, right? And that's basically, it was a power struggling. And then Bruton goes. Brudent goes back however many years later and cashes in on that Davis money. Dude, he was, I mean, like, go like only a few years into that 10-year, $100 million deal. I'm so happy, by the way, that we haven't spent any breath on Mark Davis and his ownership since he's taken over for his dad. Let's not even do it.

It's not even worth it. It's not even worth it. I'm going to go to my number one. Okay. It's not the 2015 Raiders. It's the 2016 Raiders. It's Blackjack Del Rio. and Derek Carr before Christmas Eve, 2016.

I want to walk you through some of the games going in to that game. I'm having hard palpitations. We go for two in week one in New Orleans. We have not won at that time a week one game in like 10 plus years. We go for two to win it in regulation, and it's Derek Carter of the crab, and it is incredible. Like, I was on cloud night. I cannot believe we went for it to win, and we did in week one,

like something we had not done in a long time. Then, down the stretch, we have the Tampa Bay OT Thriller, where it's still, I think, the record for the most penalties any team has ever gotten in the game that they've won. We won an OT with Seth Roberts, incredible. We won a game when we had penalties, bro. That never happens. It never happens.

At least in our lifetime. That happened in our parents' lifetime all the time. They would always win the game and the penalty battle. Yeah, yeah. In that stretch, they went 10 of their first 12 with Del Rio, and including one, too, where Derek Carlich has a really bad pinky injury. against the Carolina Panthers. And it has to come back.

It ends up coming back and they win that game, calls the Pinky game. Like they were on this run, right? Like week one was crazy. The Tampa game was crazy. Panthers was crazy. And we're playing darlings.

We're actually the league darlings. Everyone, it's year three of Derek Carr. It's, I think, year three or no, year two of Del Rio. And, you know, Murray's going crazy. The team is just awesome.

We had, like, arguably the best offensive line in the league, right, which I think is a commonality with the 2000, 2001, 2002 teams where they had like Barrett Robin. Barry Sims, Lincoln Kennedy, like we were talking before. On this 2016 line, Coletio Semley, Rodney Hudson, Donald Penn, all on the left side, all pro bowlers.

Donald Penn had allowed zero sacks that season up until this point. We're playing the Colts. We're up 33 to 7. Jalen Rashard running back that we had was going off. DeAndre Washington, our rookie running back was going off. We were having our way with them. Cars throwing to fucking Andre Holmes and Clive Wolford, and we're still dominating.

then the first sack and only sack Donald Penn gives up all season against veteran Trent Cole turns the corner, wraps up Derek Carr's leg in a funky way. Why we're throwing the ball? You know, Mark Davis question, giving him that second, but it was like second in 22.

Like it made sense to throw it. Breaks his leg. And, you know, the immediate off, you know, we go to the playoffs. We get blown out by Houston in the playoffs. It doesn't even fucking matter. In the off season, in June, we give Derek Carr what was then

the biggest contract in NFL history. And, you know, that's all she wrote, dude. Like that 2016 run, we went 12 and 4 that year. It was, I think, still the best chance we've had, by a lot, the best chance we've had to go on another run since that old one season. And obviously it was just snapped, just like that with the broken leg. And like everything, Derek Carr was never the same. The Raiders were never the same.

Doreal was never the same. And it kind of reset this cycle of rebuilding and rebuilding and rebuilding, rebuilding. And that was 10 years ago, Logan. And that says to say, for John Gruden to just tear it down, which really just pissed me all. Even like in the moment it pissed me on, but all of Reggie McKenzie's work

just gets tearing, torn down for no other reason than John Gruden's finally in charge and he feels like he has to do stuff. Let's, let's trade Calil Mac and get Vontes Burfic. Why not, right? Let's get Ritchie can't incognito.

Oh my God. His was. Like, why are we doing this, bro? That's why like Gruden part two for, you know, Raiders fans at a time, a lot of Raiders fans I knew, they were so excited when we got Gruden back,

especially like dad-aged Raiders fans. People were stoked. I was skeptical and then immediately made, hated it when we traded Cleo Mac. And even as like a nerd and like a PFF guy, all of the analytics were like, this is a great trade for the Raiders or getting a likes return.

If they hit on these first round picks, blah, blah, blah. In the same year that Gruden's first year back, he trades away Clale Mac and then in the season trades Amari Cooper. And I remember feeling like, like I said, that 2016 season's gone. Like all that's gone. Like all of this.

And then he's like, oh, all day. And it's the classic, like, bad organization thing where you trade guys that you draft for just establish guys. They basically flipped Amari Cooper for Antonio Brown and he didn't play it down for them. Yeah. All those first round picks were, like, Jonathan Abrams, safety sucked. You traded for, you know, Josh Jacobs, who, like, they couldn't even get a second contract was maybe a good pick, couldn't get a second contract to it.

It was terrible. I take the John Gruden, like, looks at it doesn't do shit for him in terms of, you know? He has like, he's like the smart guy that has a lot of buzzword that don't really mean anything. He's way past his prime when he comes to. But he's emotional, right? And I think when you're drafting players, like emotion is actually can get you caught up, right? When the whole Cleland Furl pick over Josh, like, it made no sense. Like the players that he was picking, I think he got, I think, over-emotional and over-invested

in these guys that, like, felt like were his guys. And like, that was the whole thing. Trade away, Cleo Mac, trade away, Marr Cooper for the opportunity with three new first-round picks to bring in his guys. and the guys that he brought in clearly weren't it. And then, you know, everything happens with the emails. They were guys of another era. Yeah.

Yeah. I do love that 2016 season, man. That offensive line, dude, Coletio Semley, Rodney Hudson, Gabe Jackson, Donald Penn. We had a freaking line. Mike Musgrave at OC, the defense was playing lights out. Like, we had dudes. And, you know, I don't think we've ever been able to recreate anything close. I know they went to the playoffs again.

What was it, like, 2021? but that was another, you know, bullshit run where they barely sneaked in and couldn't beat, you know, the Bengals on the road. I still think that's the best chance that they've had. And if... I still...

The last game with that 21 season was basically, the Chargers lost it more than the Raiders won. Yeah, sure. It's cool. I'll take it. Yeah, I'll take it. Versace of the man. All right, give me your one.

We have to do this. Randy Moss. The trade for Randy Moss, man. We haven't talked about it. The rate, like, you referenced a trade. The Raiders sits. Napoleon Harris, the number seven overall pick that year and a seventh round draft pick.

Who was sick? He was a thumpber, like great linebacker. Like, we moved on from Greg Beaker, I think his name was, to like have him in as like a rookie. And like he was awesome. My thing is this though, like, my thing is this, man, if you're going to trade for Randy Moss, you better damn well have your shit together.

And in the moment, it was like, okay, we have Randy Moss. This is really cool that Randy Moss, I can go out of Randy Moss jersey, which I did. Of course. 18. But, a team, baby, but this was doing from the start. I remember being optimistic for a little bit.

Then I was like, who's going to throw it to him? Right? Like, the Raiders aren't the place for him. You don't get to scronal stars into an organization like this, right? And Randy Moss said all the right things in the presser. I appreciated it. But, like, again, our team was not built organizationally to withstand or Randy Moss. No.

You can't get Randy Moss and then hire Archell after 20 years of, not coaching. And I believe the offensive coordinator of Tom Walsh was running a bed and breakfast before he got back on there. He brought him back too and it's like, you should come to this too. Like the only time he's ever been off. He's still back. Jackie Slater was

the offensive. I was like, what year of my? Is this in 1985? Like, what the hell, dude? That was tough. That was tough. What were your emotions about Randy Moss? I hated it at the time. I didn't, I didn't, I did not think it made sense for what we were trying to do. And I also didn't feel

like we had the infrastructure to win with Moss. Like we didn't know who the quarterback was going to be. And I felt bad for Randy. I really felt bad for Randy. Even when he was like quitting on routes, I was like, I understand, man. I felt how I felt about Randy Moss is similar to how I felt about

Devante Adams in his last few years. Like, yo, just go for yourself, bro. And like, it sucks. The Devante at least had that connection with Carr, right? But then immediately after they like release car in this like weird way. Like even how Derek Carr, who I'm like not the biggest fan of and I feel like

there were highlights, but after 2016, there were not a lot to speak of. But how they ended the relationship with Derek Carr and how they traded for Adams and Adams was excited to go back to Fresno State connection and completely, like, Gruden completely, like Gruden Part 2 was such a disaster, dude. It was so bad. So bad. And Art Shell part

two was also a disaster. And the fact that he brought back that office coordinator who had not been calling Blaze or even coaching in the NFL last 20 years. Are you sure? Are you sure? Are you sure? Oh, my God. Really? I'm happy that you were buzzed though. I did have a Randy Moss jersey as well,

but we were putting duct tape over the back and that thing pretty quickly. I got to be honest. People hated Randy Moss in like 2009 or his last year. There was like maybe... And then he went to the Pats. Yeah.

Then he went to the pets and they got pennies on a dollar for him. Oh no, no. He wasn't there in O'N. He was on the past by 07 when they had that crazy-ass run. Yeah, no, no. His last year was 0-6.

So imagine the emotions that the Raider fans have. We go from the Randy Moss experience and go right into the Jamarters' Rozo. Experience. And in 2007, meanwhile, the Patriots go 16 and 0. And for any dad-aged Raiders fan, the Patriots are like after the division rivals,

like second behind the Niners, maybe even head of them in terms of like non-division rivales that you fucking hate. You hate Belichick. You hate the freaking Patriots for the tuck roll and everything after that. So not only- I think writer fans hate them the most.

Like more than regular NFL fans, I think Raiders fans hate them more than despise, especially that run. Because we created it. Yeah. How much I was rooting against the Patriots and both those giant Super Bowls was unrelenting. I would have been sick if I watched Brady get that ring

and go 18 and 0 or 19 or whatever. I would have been livid. Like, I could not have it. How did you feel, though, during Randy Moss's season debut against the Patriots when he had that awesome deep throw? I think it was Carrie Collins. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he had like that, yeah. I mean, he had moments, right?

He had a thousand yards his first season. He was like, we're going to suck this year. He doesn't matter. He hated being there. He hated being there. Damn, it's so funny that number one's your freaking Randy Moss moment. 2016 doesn't make your list. What about 2016?

Well, you had said it. It was on my list. No, no, no, I was thinking. You had said it. So I was going, this is our list. We were just going through moments. But like, some of the moments went together. It was fine.

It was vibes. It's fine. My full list is day after the Super Bowl, five. Randy Moss trade four. Jim Marcus Russell trade three. Or draft pick, three. Two is a 2010 season and 2015 is the number one. In 2016 season was great, but like, yeah, the playoffs sucks.

Yeah, it was terrible. I mean, it was great until Christmas Eve. Like, literally Christmas Eve, Derek Carr breaks his leg and, like, the entire season's over. You're contemplating life itself. I had never bought a Raiders jersey until that point. Only the war of the ones that my dad had gave me. And that, that, that Christmas, I got a Derek Carr jersey. I'm sorry.

I was like legitimately in hell, like, from that moment on, like, thinking that car, was like this quarterback we were going to be able to. I mean, we were excited, man. Like he had not gotten the contract yet. He's only three years into his career. We're 12 and 4. Del Rio, Busgrave, Crabtree, Cooper, Mac, the offensive line. Like, everything felt like it was coming together.

And obviously, you know, it completely fell on its head. It was terrible. My five. Five I had Jamarcus, the Jamarcus start. Four I had last year with Pete and Gino right before, like pretty much like that week one pass was the peak of that. And then I had 2010, 2011 with Tom Cable and Jason Campbell. Two is right now with Brady, Fernando, and Kubiak.

I'm excited. I'm excited. I feel good. And then number one. Blackjack Del Rio, 2016. It's still my number one. And it will be until, I mean, we win double-digit games again, until we're going to a playoffs with our starting quarterback and feeling good about it. I think it's going to be won for a while. We'll see what happens. My final question for you, though,

is why the hell do we still keep doing this? Why do we do this? People ask me that all the time. Why are you still raiders fans? when they moved to Vegas, we didn't even talk about the move to Vegas. When they moved to Vegas, I was like, I'm still going to support the team as long as they're the Raiders and they're silver and black. If they ever change the colors, I am gone. The jerseys matter so much to me.

The silver and black specifically matters so much to me. And I love being a Raiders fan. But if they change the name or the colors, I bounce, at that point, you're just literally rooting. I'll never do that, I hope not. You're literally rooting for ownership at that point. You're like, oh, I hope Mark Davis, his football team, like, I can't do that. The thing I'll say is I'm not, and I'm interested, I want to, I want to. ask you this. I've been telling people this.

I'm not ruling out Raiders coming back to Oakland. They've done it before. Don't. Don't. Listen. Listen. They've done it before, right? They went to LA from like 1980 or it was like 80 to like the 90s or something. It was 81 to 95. There you go. 1981 to

1995. They came back. Right? And then they left again, I think for Vegas in 20, when was it? 2018? 2020. 2020. Yeah, you're right. 2020. 2020. 2020. 2020 they go to Vegas. Vegas is a cheap thrill. We all know.

They're making a ton of money. Every time you look at Raiders, you know, are all the teams and how much money they're making on tickets, the Raiders are always up there because the tickets are so fucking expensive and no one can actually go. I think eventually,

and I don't think it's going to happen with Mark Davis as the owner, but as private equity comes in and maybe other people come in and this Vegas thing and it's hard to create a home field environment, whatever, whatever, could you find someone who wants to bring this team back to the bay and bring Oakland back? Because I think if you did,

it would be, you know, they would be welcome back in open arms. They would be welcome back in open arms. I mean, honestly, their only ban basis in Oakland, bro. Exactly. Exactly. But I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think it's going to happen. I still hold up.

The mecca of sports right now where you want to be is Vegas, right? Like, of the moment, this is just what it is, man. And this is honestly, where they're going is just where sports is going. It's just some sanitized, made for TV thing. I'm not ruling it out. And I think even if it's 10 years from now, 20 years from now, I don't care when it happens. I think that there's always. going to be this itch in the back of leadership ownership's head of like, you know,

especially Vegas starts to come down. They're already seeing numbers about no one's going to Vegas anymore and blah, blah, like if things start to hit the fan, they can't sell out games and all the lure of Vegas is like no longer there. Dude, to come back to the Bay would be so freaking sick. I really, really am rooting for it. Maybe it's foolish optimism, but what is this entire list? One of the greatest, the greatest place to have a stadium is where the current Colosseum is, right?

It's the perfect place. It has access to the, right off the bar. It has access to the airport. You know, the Raiders just didn't want to invest in our community. Terrible. Terrible. You know what I'm saying. But I don't know why I do this.

I don't think that it's going to happen. I don't know. I think it's a nostalgic thing for me. Like I always go back to my childhood. It was a great childhood and like the connection to, you know, my parents being, Raider fans, stuff like that. And also the excuse I give myself is that,

they were always a nomadic franchise. So why was I, like the A's kind of hurt me even more. Like, fuck that A's. But the Raiders really like embodied something in me that I can't just give up. The A's were easy to give up. But the Raiders, I can't quit them.

Yeah. And that's where we're at right now. I'm sticking with the A's. I'm sticking with the Raiders for as long as I can as well. Like I said, colors or whatever. I do think that, you know, part of the big reason is like the nostalgia. I'm like, the relationship I have with my dad is because of this team and because of

having seats and tickets with him and like being able to kind of like share this trauma and like root for, I feel like a lot of this podcast is just naming names and I kind of want to throw some more out. But like Sebastian Genakowski, Shane Leckler, Chad Shillins, Jacoby Ford. Like they were, Kirk Morrison, Thomas Howard, Derek Burgess, Jay Richardson, Tommy Kelly, Richard Seymour, Turdell Sands. Like, we, Namdi Awesome Law. Namdi Assemwa.

Yes. One of my favorite Raiders ever, yes. And I felt like all these times that I've had this optimism, it's always when I felt like we've got badasses again. We just win baby. And like something that I think has been lost with, you know, the Al Davis to Mark Davis transition, but even just like in these decades of losing is, you know,

another like very big Raiders mantra is like this commitment to excellence. And I think that the commitment and the work ethic and all that stuff, like feeling it like really come down in real time, with Marcus Russell in a lot of the years after that and then maybe be prop back up just to be snatched with the broken leg on Christmas Eve 10 years ago. It feels like this,

you know, you can't just say like the Browns, right? The Browns have like, it's been terrible for a really long time. And like we've just been like a dormant in the league and maybe we've had like bright spots, but never true. Like we feel like we're rebuilding moments and like some of this momentum going into the playoffs or whatever. The Raiders have had these like little sparks,

these little seasons that have like reminded you of what it could be. But I've never turned the core. I can't believe the rear. Let us do this pod. I can't believe either. Let's just say this. The NFL is a better place when the Raiders are winning. It's just a better time.

It's a way better time. I hope the next time we do this is when the Raiders win the Super Bowl. We're in the Super Bowl. Let's fucking go. I really hope too. All right. Big shout out to Logan. Thank you, Logan.

Thank you, Arjuna. Thank you, Connor Nevins. Thank you, Christopher Sutton. This has been the Raiders version of the Ringer NFL show. We'll get you guys. The autumn wind is a Raider. Don't fucking forget that. Swashing to sea.

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