The Ringer NFL Show - Russell Wilson's Next Stop, the Vikings' QB Plan, Lions Trade Buzz, and More! | Extra Point Taken

Episode Date: March 5, 2024

Russell Wilson was informed on Monday that he will be released by the Denver Broncos. Does the 35-year-old still have what it takes to be a franchise QB for his next team? Assuming the Bears take Caleb Williams no. 1 in the 2024 NFL draft, where will Justin Fields end up? Plus, what exactly is the league doing to kickoffs? The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Ben Solak and Sheil Kapadia Producer: Cliff Augustin Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Social: Eduardo Ocampo Musical Elements: Devon Renaldo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There are a lot of quarterbacks in the NFL draft this year. My name is Ben Solac and I host the Ringer NFL Draft Show with Danny Kelly, Danny Hyfitton, Craig Horleck. We cover trades, free agency, and the draft, which is, yeah, obviously. We'll tell you about everything, which includes which quarterbacks are good, which quarterbacks are bad, and which quarterbacks are just Kirk Cousins. That is the Ringer NFL Draft Show. Search the Ringer NFL Draft Show on Spotify. Welcome to Extra Point Take Achille Gapati and joined by Ben Solac,

who appears to no longer be an Indian athlete. I recognize the background. He's looking good. He's looking fresh. Welcome home, Benny Souls. Looking good. Looking fresh. Not feeling good.

Feeling like I spent a week in Indianapolis up until 3 a.m. every single night. So, yeah, we released the Friday show of the NFL Draft show from Indianapolis. I record on Friday morning. Been there for like five days. It drops.

And I get a text from my sister and my mom and then like five minutes one another. Just like, are you dead? Are you okay? You sound horrible. So yeah, so hopefully that sounded a little bit better on today's show than I did on the previous shows that we recorded. But yeah, we are back. We are officially in the off season.

I don't have to travel anywhere for like a whole six weeks. I'm living, brother. You're living. We've got free agency a week from today at noon, the legal negotiating period where deals will be agreed on. We've got that. We've got legurious need getting the franchise tag today. We've got Mike Evans resigning with the Tampa Bay Bucks. We've got Jason Kelsey announcing his retirement.

We're a newsy Monday on March 4th in the NFL. You know the format. We each have three takes. We go back and forth. Solex got the extra point taken today. We don't tell each other our takes. We're doing the same format as we've done in season. Ben, start us off.

What do you got? Yeah, I am happy that Mike Evans is back with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. I think that this is that, obviously, the Jason Kelsey retirement is probably the biggest thing of the day, but this was something that kind of got rumored and, you know, I think it was Schifter shared it and then Kelsey was like, yeah, maybe not. And then, you know, whatever. When Jason Kelsey tweets, I'm going to have a press conference at 1 p.m. and not, I'm back, baby, you know, he's retiring. He's not going to hold an official, you know, top button button press conferences to return. But I think the biggest news of the day is the,

is the Mike Evans returned to Tampa Bay. He signs this morning a two-year, 52, million deal that includes 35 million guaranteed shield. Did you have a projection for what Mike Evans was going to hit on the market? I thought there was a chance. I thought there was a pretty good chance he was going to get 20 million or north of that. I also thought there was a chance that the market might not be as strong as that, given that he was 31 years old. I did 26 million. I think if he went on the open market, I really don't think he would have done better than he did with this buck's deal. I agree. And it's worth noting, you know, 26 per. It doesn't look like it hangs, you know, relative to some of the top contractors,

like Tyree Kill 30 million. Tyree Kill's like his APY is very much inflated by a huge number on the final year of his deal that he's never going to see it. I've got to cut him before, restructed him before, extended him before. This is 26 million per year, real money. All right, he's probably going to see both of these years. This is a top of the market, wide receiver extension for the 30, soon to be 31 year old Mike Evan, who has spent his entire, career in Tampa Bay. And so I like this for two reasons. It makes me happy for two reasons. The first is that the Jason Kelsey retirement did hit me in my feels. All right? I wept for the entire 45 minute press comments. Okay, my wife had to console me. I'm feeling a certain sort of way this

afternoon. My pops, my mom's always lament that players these days don't spend as much time. They don't stay with one team like they used to, right? They're moving around and trades and free agency and getting big contracts. And I try to tell them like, hey, player empowerment is good. mobility is good for the league. But man, when a player stays with the team for a long time, and rides all the ups and downs, develops a relationship with the city and the fan base, it means something special.

You can feel that in your chest. And so I would not, I would have felt some sadness. I would have been a little forlorn seeing Mike Evans in a non-buccaneers jersey. You're smirking at me because I feel things and you don't. You think it's very funny. Oh, look at Ben. Oh, he's so emotionally, so sad.

Whatever, okay? I've been crying for like three straight hours. I'm happy that Mike Evans is still go bucking. He's going to play his, what is it now? his 11th season upcoming with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers this year. So I'm happy for that reason. The other reason I'm happy is that I think that this helps the Buccaneers secure Baker Mayfield, right?

They kind of get this contract done. And now I think it'll be easier for them to entice Baker to stay, to understand what the ceiling and the floor is going to be with Baker when he stays. This keeps their nucleus together. And I think that that is a worthy pursuit. I think that right now they're at a point of big transition on the offensive side of the ball, moving on from Dave Canales, who took the Panthers head coaching job, replacing him with Liam Cohen.

I think they're going to be at a huge defensive point of transition, right? They're cutting Shaq Barrett. There's a potential, you know, Levanti David's career is coming to an end. Carlton Davis was rumored to be a corner that people are calling about. Like, they're at a huge point in transition on the defensive side of the ball, offensive coaching staff. It's nice to have some stability. You have something that you can hang your hat on, right?

I don't delude myself into thinking that the Buccaneers are going to be Super Bowl contenders because they're keeping Mike Evans. But certainly as somebody who was low on them entering the 2023 season, who watched GM Jason Light go up to Sports Illustrated, it's Connor or this week and be like, hey, you have us with two wins. How'd that go? And get that up on Buccaneers' team social real quick. I acknowledge and respect to the Buccaneers organization and their priority they're putting on on remaining quasi-competitive even as they go through like a rebuild and a reload, right? They're not interested in tearing things down to the studs and bringing things back up.

And even if that has some wisdom to it, I understand whether preferring to go this way. Let Baker bridge you into the next guy. And sure that Mike Evans and Chris Godwin are there. So that way you can evaluate Baker, evaluate the next guy whenever he comes. That's a defensible approach. It really, really is. And so good for Mike. Good for Tampa.

Big contract, but I understand why they did it. I think all sides are happy out of this one. First of all, on the emotions, So lack. I think you misunderstand me. Just because I myself and emotionally am emotionally unavailable, I like to go to the emotional zoo. I like to observe others having emotion. I like to see you have emotion.

That's nice. I like when people cry and stuff. I'm glad I could be a dancing seal for you. You want to see me do some tricks for some fish? Yeah. Want to see me catch a ball? Anybody around you want to cry? I'm there to watch you cry about, you know, get emotional, something meaningful to you.

I like that. It's nice. You live vicariously. Who in the world is crying and wants to be watched cried by Shiochobadia? I'm in media. You just mentioned Jason Keller. There's probably a lot of people. I'm in Media, Pennsylvania, 20 minutes away from where Jason Kelsey had that press cut. Okay, you're covering your mouth. Do we have breaking news?

Show, you remember how last pot I was like, it's crazy, how the Broncos are just going to cut Russ? Yes. Broncos just cut Russ. Oh, okay. All right. I thought it was going to be something different. And I was like, what, no? Was there some weird Brock Osweiler trade here or something that's going on? All right. So Broncos release, Russell Wilson is what you're telling me. million in dead cap for the Denver Broncos. I guess we should probably, we should probably just talk about that. I mean, I was going to come in with a Mike Evans take. But you know what? We have breaking news here with the Denver Broncos. Yeah, so it'll be a post-June 1 cut. It looks like, well, let's just talk about it. I'll go with this take off. I'll go with this take

off the top of my head. I don't even know if I fully believe this. Let's talk it out. I don't believe that Russell Wilson will be a starting quarterback in week one of the 2024 season. Okay. Do you agree with that or disagree with that? Now let's talk it out. I said it. I felt it. I haven't, again, we're doing this live.

I have thought about it a little bit previously. But I don't think there's going to be a lot. I think it's going to be a very small number of teams that are going to look at Russell Wilson and say, bring him in at this age, given what he's put on film, the past two seasons and bring him in to be a starter. I think it might be some sort of, hey, we're taking a look at a bunch of different guys. I think it could be something in late August if a guy gets injured. I think it could be a while before Russell Wilson even lands with a team.

All right. So that is my initial take on Russell Wilson. What do you think? So I agree that he should not be a starter in 2024. Like I watched the film. This was not. And they, oh, Sean Payne, an injury guarantee. They're trying to bench him.

Like, there's a lot of stuff that goes into the Broncos and Russ's relationship last year that I acknowledge. On pure film, this is not a good player anymore. And I don't think that he's a starting caliber quarterback in the league. Will he be a starter, week one? I think that's, I think it's more likely to happen than you do. I don't think it would be right. I don't think it would be just, I very easily can see the Las Vegas Raiders deciding that starting Russ Wilson for a year. I was going to say, do you have teams in mind? Okay, Las Vegas Raiders is one. I'm looking at the

AFC East. I mean, New England Patriots are the only team there that needs, potentially needs a quarterback. So we got Patriots and Raiders potentially AFC North. The Steelers, I think I read a report. I want to say in the athletic that looks like they are not interested in Russell Wilson. They might not be interested in any quarterback. So let's count them out for our purposes here. The AFC South, no. nobody. AFC West, you mentioned it, maybe the Raiders. NFC East, no. I don't think there's anybody in the NFC East that you would say, yeah, they would bring in Russell Wilson unless you want to maybe throw the Giants in there as a curveball. Oh my gosh, that would be disgusting.

NFC North. Vikings are just a weird team because we don't know exactly what their quarterback situation is going to be with if they don't bring back Kurt Cousin. So I guess if we want to throw them in the mix as a potential team, that would be okay. Atlanta Falcons, we don't know exactly what they're going to do at quarterback. And that would be it. So those are four teams. I think I mentioned four teams total, right? Atlanta, Minnesota, Las Vegas, and New England.

And none of them really feel like, yeah, I definitely think they're going to. So I just think it's a smaller group than maybe you think on the surface. Now, I agree. I'm trying to remember, Russ, the teams that he named initially that he said he wanted to play for. Vegas was one of them.

In 2021, yeah, when he was talking about potentially leaving Seattle, he named the Cowboys, the Saints, the Raiders, and the Bears.

Those are the teams that he named. Now, at the time, there were some different coaching staffs across the board there, right? But if you're thinking about, like,

the markets or, like, ownership that he's connected to, like, I think those four teams are still interesting. It was so, random. There was no rhyme or reason. No one could come up with any. It's like he just did what I did and went to the ESPN standings page and he's like told his son, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll,

stop. All right. Okay, saints. Let's put him on and he did that four times. That's how I think he came up with that list. The teams that he didn't include that were weird they didn't include were the New York teams. Like you would just assume that he would want to play in New York. Like just from his general vibe and from the desire to be on those teams, the whole whoever his wife is, I always say her name incorrectly. So I'm not going to try to pronounce it now. Sierra. I always think it's like Kiara or something. I get yelled at. The Giants, I can see the Giants. It is a Russell Wilson signing with the intent to start or the intent to let him compete to start will invariably be done by one of the franchises that we know to be a jump at shadows, unprepared, overreacting, not necessarily super well-managed team. which I like Joe Shane, but I think the Giants do fall into that

because they're their big market and, you know, got to get the big names and whatever. I think the Raiders fall into that because they're the Raiders. They've always been. Like, the Vikings don't read like that to me. The Falcons don't read like that to me. Like, I don't think they're going to, like the Steelers certainly don't. I don't think they're going to jump at the shadow of Russell Wilson,

fooling themselves into believing they can somehow achieve 2022 Russ in 2024. It's a fool's errand. I don't think they'll do it. Sierra. Did I say Sierra? Like Ruben Sierra? Ciarra. Okay. Okay. If you pronounce it wrong and I don't know how to pronounce it, one, thank God.

I do not. I have this song in my head, but I'm not going to sing it because I'm not going to embarrass myself and give the social. We are about to get for that exchange where I'm like, I won't try to pronounce this. I've never heard this person. And you brought me down. Listen, I know I'm not in your boat when it comes to this type of stuff. Okay. You've dragged me down to your level. Producer Cliff is in the chat. LMAO pronunciation is crazy. Russell Wilson will turn 36 years old in November. I mean, yeah, it's just, I think it's, I really think there's a situation here where he waits and he waits in. Now, there was some link to the Giants at some point when he was in Seattle. I don't remember if it was, you know, like a veiled report or whatever, but there was

at some point there, there was, I think, a hint that Russell Wilson would like to play for a team like the New York Giants. But I don't know, now would he go to like Chicago as like a backup? The Caleb Bulls, is that a bad idea? He's got Shane Waldron there. You know, it's an offensive coordinator who he's played with before. I don't know if something like that would make sense or not. But I just think he's going to be waiting a while. And I think it's, I don't think any team's going to sign Russell Wilson to be their starter. All right.

Yeah, a quick procedural note, just for those, we broke the news broke here. We're kind of talking it through. They've informed Russie's going to be cut at the new year, which starts a, and I want to say after March 13th of memory serves, they will designate him a post-June 1st cut, and so he will still be cut in March. However, for cap accounting purposes, he will functionally be cut after June 1st,

but that means that he will hit the cap for about 35 million dead this year, this 20-24 year, and then the subsequent 50 million dead, which those aren't the exact numbers. The exact numbers have been kind of like misreported and confused a little bit, and there's some uncertainty will be in 2020. So,

cumulatively about $85 million in dead cap over two years, which will be, as we discussed on last week's show, the largest dead cap hit in NFL history by more than double the current largest, which was Matt Ryan at $42 million. So healthy, all right? Paying a man, $8, $85 million not to work. I would like to get that job.

If the ring would like to give me $85 million to do nothing, I'm interested. Hit my inbox. See, Erron. It's the era. Yeah, you see, that, again,

you're not playing this on me. You're trying to pronounce it. I do. It was in my wheelhouse. That's what it is. I can hear the song in my head. Again, I'm not going to say,

I kind of just did mention it. What that's how you're saying. All right. There you go. That was Russell Wilson. So I guess that was my first day. All right, it feels like we might need a break after that.

I know it was only two, but now you got my head spinning a little bit. We got the Russell Wilson. But this is what happens. When you podcast in March, you might get some breaking news on the pod. So you started us off with Mike Evans.

Here was my other thing on Mike Evans. Let me get this before we get to the break. I generally like agree with your nice sentiments, but then I was thinking about it more. And it was like, is that really what's best? Mike Evans playing for a Tampa Bay Bucks team that I don't think is going to be a contender here

in the next two years. Like there were many more fun Mike Evans' destination. If someone who's on team content, as someone who's on team content. Team content. Okay. Well, yeah. Also, if you're a Bucks fan, like, are you really, like, in your feels over? If he were to sign somewhere else, would you have been that upset about it? Like, you've had a long run with Mike Evans. You've won a Super Bowl with Mike Evans.

He's 31 years old. You might have been okay. I don't know. Does it really matter to people that much? Maybe it does. But in terms of team content, I mean, you throw him on one of these contending teams that we've talked about before. And he's playing in big playoff games next year.

That would have been more interesting to me because I think the arrow is kind of pointing down or at least mediocrity is going to set in for that. that Tampa Bay Bucks team in 2024. So it's fine. You know, we can all get over. Pat Manning played for another team. Tom Brady played for another team. It's okay when a guy plays for another team. So I agree that for team content, there's other places like Evans could have gone. The problem is, is that if team content steers for agency, then everybody becomes a chief, right? Like, that's just, it's just, that's the best for content, right? Or like, a chief or a subsequent team that is defined by the chiefs, like the bills in contention with the chiefs, the Ravens in contention

with the chiefs, the Niners in contention with the chiefs. I like, I love Tampa, I'm happy to be in Tampa. And also, let's call Spade to Spade. Mike Evans seemed like he was perfectly fine to leave Tampa. And Tampa said, would you like $26 million each year for the next two years? Mike Evan said, yeah. And so also, there's nothing wrong with a man saying, listen, like, he's Kirk Cousinzing. This is a big win at the bank for Mike Evans.

And it allows him to keep all the same clothing, which to me is like huge. They keep right at the same house, same friends, same coffee shop, wear the same clothes, massive. I am team CTC and I agree with that. The Bucks, to prevent Mike Evans from testing free agency, the Bucks had to come in with an offer like this. Because otherwise, he's not motivated. He's a week away from being able to test free agency. Like you need to come in with something where in his head, he can say, I don't think I'm going to be able to do. And his representation can say, I don't think I'm going to be able to do better than this on the open market.

I don't even want to test it in a week. I'm happy here. The money is better than I could get elsewhere. I'm going to go ahead and stay put. So I agree. Team CTC, nice job from Mike Evans. It's where he wanted to be. Ultimately, that's his decision.

That's fine. I also think it would have been fine if he went somewhere else and it would have been a little bit better for content for me, which is what I am. All right, take a break. We'll come back with more takes in a second. All right, we are back on extra point. You know, we've never done like a snake thing on this.

So we're like, you do one, then I do two, then you like, we try that one time. I'm not saying we got to do it right now. Snake drafting dates? There's no value. The whole point of a snake draft is to like equalize a large field selection draft. This is just opinions with two people. Listen, I had a take that I wanted to be my first take and it couldn't be my first take because Russell Wilson.

You could just say, hey, can I go? And I'm like, yeah, sure. I'm not going to do that. I'm trying to add a little variety. Just because you have a good thing going, you don't rest on your laurels, you got to think of a way to, you know, add a little spice, a little variety to the next. So that's what I'm talking about, a little snake draft. All right, but we won't do it today.

So Alec doesn't want to do it today. He just mentioned he doesn't like change. So Olaak, you're up. What's your second take? The only things it would change because I have four takes, you have three, is the order of three and four. That's the only thing that would flip. instead of me having one three five seven i'd have one four five seven that's it that's a change okay huge for us my second take whichever order it is nominally is that uh i kind of like the idea

of justin fields as a cleveland brown and something that that i i started to i started to riddle around with a little bit this week when i was in the combine it feels like the market for fields is increasingly becoming a bear market increasingly becoming a little bit of a quieter market i think it is certainly true that most teams that need a quarterback would like to try their hand at the Kirk Cousins market first before building a trade offer for Fields. I think that the field's very clear like the second girl right now, right? So I think that's number. Number two, I don't know if it's an astronomical bear's asking price or if it is a negotiation tactic and the bears believe, okay, well, once the Falcons or the Steelers or the Vikings fail to get Kirk, then it'll be a

It paints into a corn. They'll have to give us a big return. But it sounds right now like it's not even like there's teams that are close or teams like, oh, we have a deal in place for Fields in the event that we want to go for it. No, it just generally seems like no team has gotten close on a price tag for Justin Fields. You brought the fact that it doesn't really feel like there's a lot of places that are Russell Wilson places. It also doesn't seem to me like there's a lot of places that are Justin Fields places. I just think so many of these teams are going to want to, A, look for Kirk and then B,

try to engage with those top four quarterbacks, which I increasingly believe are going to be like four quarterbacks in the top 10, four quarterbacks in the top 15. The desire for Fields, I think, is pretty low. I think that's where we're at right now. Accordingly, you have to start to widen the scope. If you play act as Fields as agent, you're a member of his camp, widen the scope for places that he might go. Like if Kurt goes to the Steelers and the Falcons aren't actually interested and the Raiders

are not because Lou Gefti, like, Baker goes back to Tampa, like you're starting to run out of teams, who's going to rise up as a decent option for the Justin Fields deal? And I think that the Browns make a ton of sense. I do not know if the Browns currently have a starting caliber quarterback on their roster. I know that they have Deshaun Watson on their roster, who is paid like a starting caliber quarterback and who is certainly traded for as if he was a substantially excellent starting quarterback. But I've watched the film.

I have not seen Deshaun Watson play like a starting caliber quarterback since he came back from suspension, just to say since he put on a Browns jersey, right? Joe Flacco is a free agent. I don't think they want to do another year of Joe Flacco while Deshawn costs them another $64 million and just see if Deshawn solves the problem in 2025. Like that doesn't sound appetizing to me at all. Dorian Thompson Robinson, who was the sixth round rookie who won their QV2 job out of camp last year, had the opportunity to play a couple times last season.

I thought acquitted himself well for a sixth round pick, but nothing there where you're like, oh, you know, developmental starter. Let's give him eight games, can 12 games. I'm not even sure he can stay healthy for that. So the Browns, as I see it right now. don't really have a good developmental QB1 on their roster. I think the DTR is a good developmental QB2, nor do they have like a bridge starter, right? Like a guy to just, okay, they get you through, you know, five games if Sean goes down.

Because again, Johns would get injured, right? Sean's been getting hurt the last couple of years as well. So if Justin Fields isn't getting a starting caliber quarterback market, a starting caliber quarterback trade, and I'm Cleveland and I say, hey, like, I have my third round pick this year, Chicago. I'll swing you this for Justin Fields, right? And you get Fields on two years left on his deal. Or excuse me, no, it'll be one year and then the fifth year option. I apologize.

Fifth year option, yeah. One year in the fifth left on his deal. If you want to pick that up, be very expensive for backup quarterback. So one year left on his deal. You get Fields in the building with Kevin Sopansky, who we saw with Baker Mayfield in 2021 is willing and capable of executing a 12 personnel, 13 personnel, under center, rollout, play action, bootleg offense, which is a great starter passing offense for fields. Offensive coordinator there is Ken Dorsey.

You've seen him operate with a big body running quarterback and Josh Allen, incorporating Allen into the running game, QB power, leads off. I'm not comping Fields to Allen, just saying Dorsey's run the plays that worked for a quarterback like Fields before. And you have a GM and Andrew Barry who had just left Philadelphia before they acquired Jalen Hertz, but certainly is of the Howie Rosebin mindset that you can't invest enough. You can't stop investing in the quarterback position. We have seen mobile quarterbacks in Cleveland before with DTR and with Josh Jobs.

who was on this roster in camp before he was traded away to the Arizona Cardinals. So to me, they read like a team that should be interested in fields. He is a moderate risk because you're still going to trade a day two pick and he's got a decent contract to him. But high upside gamble at quarterback where you need to start soliciting those. You need to start finding those, all right? You need a backdoor out of this Deshaun deal and you need an ASAP. You may not want to admit that verbally, but let's be honest, he has been hurt.

He has been ineffective for the last. last few years is a Brown's quarterback. So if you can get a guy who gets you out of it because he gives you starting caliber play, allows you to finagle around that contract, then you should pursue that. It's not a perfect fit. If Fields is good for them, he gets expensive pretty quick, right? And they obviously are already paying Deshaun a lot. So it's far from a salve for all their problems. But I, spoiler alert, short of drafting Brock Bertie, they're not going to find one, right? Like this contract is too big for too poor of a player right now. But I think if Fields struggles to find that team that trades for him, you know, the moment,

13th hit. So the Pittsburgh CEOs want you to be their starter. And if his market gets a little bit cold and has to widen, I think the Cleveland Browns are a good and helpful suitor for Justin Field. I don't hate it. When you first said it, I liked it. And then I thought about it some more. And here's the problem with where the Browns are. Okay. The Browns make that trade for Deshawn Watson. And the expectation at that time is Deshaun Watson, given what we've given up, is going to be able to elevate other parts of the roster, and he's going to be able to make up for other holes on the roster. And not only is that not the case, but like you said, you don't even know if you have a plus starter in Deshawn Watson. Forget about a guy who's like a top five. I mean,

last year, so like you mentioned the film, I mean, the numbers, 31st out of 39 quarterbacks in dropback success rate. I think there will be a lot of clinging on to the way Deshawn Watson kind of ended that run before he got injured. He had a great game against the Baltimore Ravens. We've got to look at bigger samples here. I mean, when's the last time the guy has put together a healthy, above average quarterback season? What's it been now?

Four seasons? Five seasons? I mean, it has been a long time since we've seen that. And so the Browns have themselves in this situation. I mean, you mentioned they have a third round pick. Yeah, but they don't have a pick in the top 50. I mean, those draft picks are very like they could. decide that Justin Fields and the upside and a backup quarterback is worth it, or they could look at

the rest of the roster and say, we could use a little help here at wide receiver. We could use a little help here in other areas of the roster. And so we can't afford to use that pick on a backup quarterback. Now, that's an interesting conversation. You might say, well, that's good, is their best use of resources would be to spend it on somebody like Justin Fields, given the way Watson has been injured and he was injured last year and given the upside there so I could see it. But I don't know, my early return, like as I'm going through each team and saying, all right, what do I think they're going to do this off season? Where are they going to look like next season? I'm not that bullish on the Browns right now. I mean, you lose Bill Callahan, right, on offense to the Titans. Big, big deal to lose

a great offensive line coach. Defensively, are you going to be better than you were last year? Highly unlikely. You really can't be. Well, you're historically good last year. So probably not. We know defense is volatile year over year. And now you have Watson coming off an injury coming back when he did not have a sustained stretch of quality football last year. And they're just in a really tough spot. You know, Arjun Menon on pro football focus has this very handy chart of offseason resources where he puts together, you know, draft capital plus cap space Cleveland Browns, 30 first and offseason resources. They do not have a lot of avenues to improve. second. Wait, nope, don't tell me. Miami Dolphins. Correct. Oh, baby. Oh, gas. No problem. All right.

Thank you for listening. Thank you're doing right. Paul. I'm done. That was sick. So, so there you go. So I think it's not a bad idea. I'm a little skeptical that they would be that aggressive, but maybe that would be the best use of that. Why wouldn't the steal, if the, if the price is really getting low here, why wouldn't a team like the Pittsburgh Steelers who you can not have full faith in your quarterback situation. If the price is coming down to, let's say, I don't know, a third, is it going to get to a fourth? If it's getting in that area and you're not just saying, let's just take the flyer and see what, again, I don't, I don't, all everything I'm reading at from the Pittsburgh reporters out of

the combine and you and I were texting a little bit about this, is that the Steelers are not going to be big players for a quarterback this offseason. Now, again, you take everything with a grain of salt this time of year. You don't know what to believe until the moves are actually made. But man, that just is the team that screams to me like, this isn't like signing Kurt Cousins for $40 million per year. All right, you don't want to do that. Fine.

This is giving a mid-round pick to the Chicago Bears for a flyer on a guy who, if nothing else, is an elite runner, an elite scrambler, and is another option for you. If you're throwing darts at quarterback, that to me would be a reasonable dart throw. So that's the one I can't get out of my head, but who knows? So, like, I am with you, right? Like, like, unquestionably, if the market firm fields is a three and the two teams are the Steelers and the Browns, and you're asking me, which team should do this? I'd be screaming Steelers 19 times every time, right?

Like, it's just, it's absolutely, it's Pittsburgh. I will say, I texted you on, like, Monday, Tuesday of Combine Week, and I was like, dude, like, nobody thinks the Steelers are getting a quarterback. By the time we got to the end of Combine Week, and certainly with all the pieces that been written. It's starting to get like a little bit too loud, right? The fact that 19,000 people are like, do, the Steelers are going in the next year with Can You Picket at QB1 really makes me think that Pittsburgh would like for everybody else to believe that they're doing that. And I think it's one of those situations where, okay, you drop the smoke screen, but there's too much smoke here and now I can

tell there's no fire. And so to me, I'm still suspicious of that. I believe that when I see it. The Steelers are a smart organization. I don't think they're that they're going to make that mistake. it is to just say that right if there isn't like let's say we walk into the trade deadline reopening new league year to do those trade for Justin Bielter than three minutes

boom it's over if we get to the point where like he's been up for three days he's been up for four days nobody's traded for him yet the bears are in negotiations with Fitzburg and maybe like they're talking about

the Broncos a little bit like there's just like you know nothing is immediate I think the Brown should get involved and see what the price is and what that the reason why like that the genesis point of that thought for me

is just simply the Browns can't walk out of this year's draft without taking a quarterback. They have to. They need to take a gamble on a young, cheap quarterback at every opportunity that passes them because they need a trapdoor out of this. Deshaun Watson deal. They desperately need one. And do you want Justin Fields for a third or do you want Michael Pratt for a six? Right.

And to me, like, if Pratt hits, obviously he's younger and he's cheap. Fields is not as young and not as cheap, but I just think like, you're swinging for a Brock Purdy, and that's just such a tough place to be. Like, I maybe do both. I don't know. Like, that's not appetizing to me. It's a little bit more appetizing to get Fields in,

if you can get immediately successful, bringing him up just like a couple of levels from where he was in Chicago, such that he's like a functional, reliable starter. All right. See what happens with Justin Fields. Certainly one of the biggest stories of the next couple weeks. Maybe it'll be the next few months.

Who knows when, that trade will actually go down. Speaking of which, my next take here, So like, everything that Ryan Poles has done has set him up for the next two months and the man cannot afford to screw it up. I mean, I'm just looking at the Chicago Bears right now, and we all know the obvious thing. They have the number one pick.

We think they're going to take Caleb Williams. That's fine. That's not a big source of discussion. But, I mean, maybe it'll change over the next couple months here or so. but if you look at the next two months and the degree to which they're going to determine the long-term fate of the Bears franchise, there's so much more when you really dig in. So in addition to the first pick, they obviously have the ninth overall pick. So you got two picks in the top 10. But then you look at free agency. The Bears right now are fourth in effective cap space per over the cap.com and first in possible cap space, which means if they restructure everything they want to restructure, they would have the most cap space of any team in the NFL. The position they're in to have these resources, the first pick,

and that kind of cap space is very, very rare. This is like the type of stuff that GMs dream of when they're like, oh, if only I could get to this spot, I could really rebuild a team. They'll be building statues of me for years to come because I'm going to be building a Super Bowl contender. So you add those things up. But it's even more than that. because usually when a team has the first pick, they absolutely sucked the last year.

They were the worst team in football. Not the case with the Chicago Bears. They have pieces on this team. We talked about them quite a bit in what, November, December, January, on our Friday show, especially. Yeah, where we're like, oh, you know what? This team is actually frisky and competitive. And they finished the season seven and ten. But those last eight games, they were five and three.

And all three losses were by eight points or fewer. I mean, they were consistently competitive. They've made moves to the roster. DJ Moore they trade for last year. Montez Sweth, they trade four in season and sign-in. We talked about Jalen Johnson a couple times, number one corner, 25 years old. They used the 10th overall pick on Darnell Wright last year during the draft. I just mentioned offensive tackle, edge, wide receiver, corner.

Premium positions aside from quarterback, they've got guys in their mid to late 20s who should be in their primes or still entering their primes here going forward. So you add all those things up and it's just like they have to nail this. If they nail this in the next two months, this could be a stretch of sustained success. We have not seen for the Chicago Bears in decades. I don't think that's an exaggeration. This is a franchise that has gone 13 seasons, Zolak, without getting past the wild card round. They've made the playoffs twice in the last 13 seasons, and both of those have been wild card losses.

Since 1992, they have made the playoffs in back-to-back seasons a grand total of one time, 2005 and 2006. Every franchise is chasing that sustained success. Obviously, everyone wants a Super Bowl, but you want to be in the mix year in and year out, and they just have, they're so well positioned to do it. but at the same time, there's so much pressure on them. There's so much riding on them to get this right in the next two months. So no franchise in the NFL has more at stake in the next two months than the Chicago Bears. Yeah.

I'm becoming such an unwilling Ryan Poles fan. Like I just thought when he first got the job and the way that he talked about it and some of the signings that they made, like the big Germain Edmins deal and even the big T.J. Edwards deal. the big Nate Davis deal, not extending Jalen Johnson. I was just like, dude, I don't, this is not for me. There's Chase Claypool, trade for Chase Claypole from the Steelers, trading real close with away to the Ravens. I was like this is just not it, man, like I do not like this pro personnel management

from a college personnel management, right? And from the trade that they made, the acquisition of DJ Moore, which I was like, okay, DJ Moore is fine. I thought DJ Moore really played better than I expected there in Chicago. some of the draft picks that they've gotten into the building. And then you got the first overall pick for the second year in a row, right? That trade you got with the Panthers gave you one overall. And I have the chance to take the quarterback.

Overall, like in March and April, not in March because the free agency signings. In April, I think Bulls is pretty good. In February, where he's been like, you know, kind of managing these rumor mills and setting expectations, I think he's been pretty good too. So yeah, absolutely. Like everything hangs in the balance of Chicago. But what else is new? Like the team in speaking first overall has everything that hangs in the balance.

They're definitely though. The point that they're better than most teams that pick are first overall is in a boring one. I mean, they ended the season like five and three. I want to say it was over their last day games. This is a team that can take a big leap if the rookie quarterback hits, that's CJ Stroud hit for the Texans. Even the way that like Stroud obviously walked in and was pectonic. They got a Kyler Murray caliber season, right?

When he came in as a rookie from their first overall pick from Caleb Williams, presumably. Then yeah, they can be toweringly good very fast. Yeah, I was going to, I was going to make the take. They could be this year's version of the Texans, but like last year's version of the Bears was much better than the 20, 22 version of the Houston, Texas. So listen, Iber Footh, I still don't know about. They were playing hard for him. They were playing well in the second half of last season.

We'll see if he ends up being the guy long term. Rookie quarterbacks, you never know. We'll talk ourselves into all these guys. And there's certainly so much to like with Caleb Williams. that CJ Stroud bar is very, very, very, very, very high. I mean, I'm talking about maybe the best rookie quarterback season I've seen. And so you don't want to go quite that far, which you mentioned there. But if he can just be, all right, this is a guy who's making some plays, showing some signs, taking his lumps.

They could certainly be in the playoffs next year. And again, if he continues to grow and that talent we see is realized they could be a good team for years to come. So a lot of ifs there, but the resources, again, with the two picks in the top 10, this kind of cap space, and you were seven and ten last season. Like this is a rare, rare situation for a team to be in. All right, take one more break. We will come back with our final takes and Solax, extra point taken. All right, we're back on extra point taking.

Soak, what do you got? Yeah, for my third take, I think the Minnesota Vikings are going to take Jayjun McCarthy in the 2024 NFL draft. This is early and highly flexible flag plant from Benzbole. I will not be held to these words in April if I disagree with them at that time. However, I want to get this opinion out here early because I was at Kevin O'Connell's Presser and I was at Questi, Adolfo Menzis Presser. It's the head coach and the general manager of the Minnesota Vikings. And both those guys gave me a sense that they are ready to develop a young guy.

I mean, they've had Kirk there for their entire tenure with the Vikings, and they've done the veteran quarterback thing, and Kirk's obviously been excellent for that offense, and they've run, like, a very, like, mature and high-level offense. He's walking up to line of scrimmage, and he's checking calls, and he's deciding stuff on the field. Kirk goes down, and they went through this carousel young guys, right? They bring in Josh Dobbs.

They start Jarren Hall. He goes down to start Josh Jobs. Dobbs plays for a little bit. Jared Hall plays for a little bit. Nick Mullins plays for a little bit. And you can just, like, feel Kevin O'Connell tearing his hair out on the sidelines while they were going through some of these younger dudes. trying to keep the training wheels on the offense,

trying to remember how to put those back on, and see if they had a guy who could find them a little bit of sustained success. They just went, I think they had flashes, but like Nick Mullen's 400-400-yard games against the lines aside, Josh Jobs went over the Atlanta Falcons aside. Like, it was just upheaval, right? They were there jumping from young guy to young guy, like backup to backup. They didn't really seem like they had anybody that they liked

that they wanted to invest the time in. O'Connell got asked about quarterbacks and how you evaluate them at the at the combine. He brought up that, right, the first thing you look for is that a quarterback be naturally accurate. He should be able to just stand up at the podium and throw the ball anywhere he likes. Then he talks about leadership traits. He talked about being tough and smart and accountable and how the Vikings always prioritize leadership and how a guy kind of manages that stuff. Quest, he got asked about the younger quarterbacks that come out, right?

these younger players come out in the draft. And he talked about, oh, you know, one thing that we know here is that the physical attributes of a quarterback, like, don't necessarily peak. The physical attributes to a player necessarily peak when you're young, like, they don't peak at 20, which is like a very interesting throwaway age because that's the age that exactly JJ McCarthy, the quarterback out of Michigan is. Kevin O'Connell talks about how you help a guy learn with processing and how you, you go in her center and you run play action, which I mean, the Vikings do at the highest level over the

course of the entire league and how you simplify the picture for them, very similar to the offense that Michigan ran. with J.J. McCarthy and with Jim Harbaugh. The Vikings right now are taking the, are picking at 11, right? They're in front of the Denver Broncos at 12 and the Las Vegas Raiders at 13. Two other teams that I think need a quarterback, they can potentially trade up. So the Vikings are a spot where like, I think that you're going to see a potential quarterback waterfall at that spot. You have the Falcons at 8, they might need a quarterback. And then after them, like, it's that run from 11 to 12 to 13. And so the Vikings want a quarterback. They're in pole position

right now of that second group. And we've already known that Questie moves right on the draft. Questi's going to be willing to be active. They have Justin Jefferson who's in hand. They went traded for T.J. Hawkinson. They went drafted Jordan Addison. They have bookend tackles and Brian O'Neill and Christian Dara. They have all the pieces you want. Kevin O'Connell's a good designer. They have all the pieces you want if you were ready to develop a guy. They just feel so totally ready to get a young guy. They actually like, they're willing to like, like, spend time on. Remember, they spend a middle-round pick on Jaron Hall. They kind of did the like, dip your toe into the water and see what it feels like thing last year.

They feel so totally ready to just bring a young dialogue. And given the way that they talk about the players, given the traits that it sounds for, Quest, you talked about being able to create outs after the play. I'm like, you know, learning from Kyle Shanahan and Mike Me, Daniel, about executing the play within structure, the way they talk about leadership and toughest and accountability.

Like, it's all very Jason McCarthy coded to me. It sounds like they are, that is a sort of player that they would be interested in. All right, help me out here. You got to help me out here, okay? As somebody who is coming out of the free agency, all right, I feel prepped. I know what all these teams are looking for. I got my rankings out. And this week before free agency starts, I'm jumping into the quarterbacks in the draft to start forming some opinions.

I have not gotten there yet. So as somebody who only watched J.J. McCarthy, not on Phil, but sitting in this chair here on Saturdays, I did not expect to be sitting here on March 4th. And as I'm reading all this wonderful combine coverage, An NFL coverage. I was not expecting to see, oh, maybe the Seahawk, Mike McDonald, J.J. McCarthy, maybe the Vikings. Like, just every, I cannot read anything about what happened in Indianapolis for a week

without coming away with the J.J. McCarthy is going to get drafted really high. Wait, the guy I would, it felt like when I was watching those games, they were kind of, like, they were certainly were not building around J.J. McCarthy's skill set. I don't want to say they were hiding him. I know. Listen, they played, they won the national championship. I'm not dogging the guy. Maybe I'll come away with a different opinion.

After I watched the film, do you wonder, because you've been in that draft role for a week. Now come out to the non-draft world to a person like me who is having a little bit difficulty digesting this whole thing and explain to me, let's take a little detour on the J.J. McCarthy phenomenon, which I'm sure you've talked about at length on the ringer draft show, which everyone should listen to.

but now to the non-draft Knicks. Help me out. Help me out here. What's going on? Yeah, I was going to say, I was like, I need you to watch these quarterbacks. We have, like,

actually really talk about this right now. JJ, all right, like NFL teams love to think they're smarter than college teams. NFL teams love to scout the traits overscouting the production, right?

What can a guy be when he gets NFL coaching as opposed to what was he in college? They're doing that with JJ, right? They're saying, okay, like, this cat didn't throw very much. He's not particularly accurate. I know I said, like, the main thing that,

that O'Connell looks, for his quarterback accuracy. And JJ has flashes of like really nice accuracy, but it's something that's been documented well by Nate Tice of Yahoo and Derek Classic of Reception, perception. He's a lot worse to his left than he has to his right. Got a little bit of early Kirk, early Kirk to him, where he doesn't like throwing to the other side of the field. He has footworking mechanical issue.

The lead to some of his inaccuracy. And he just wasn't generally trusted to throw the football a lot of Michigan, right? Like you can argue, oh, they had elite running game and that's why he didn't throw the ball very much. And you can point to when he did throw in third and five, they were highly productive. But yeah, it's because everybody thought they were going to run it. And fundamentally, if you have an NFL quarterback at the college level, you want the ball in that guy's hands. Blake Corum is a good back.

You have a great offensive line, but that's not how. If you have the guy, you hand the ball to the guy accordingly. You let him operate the game from the pocket. The NFL team say, okay, but look at like, you know, he's got a good arm. He's got good movement skills. We thought he was going to be a little undersized. He actually came in at a great size. Combine, going back to Questie's point, guys aren't done growing, aren't done, you know, physically evolving when they're 20 years old.

And so maybe he can continue to get bigger. He can grow up into his frame a little bit. So we're gambling on the traits here. There's two issues with that. The first is that his traits are an elite. You are blanking on traits. For a guy whose traits are like 75th percentile, right? He's like, he's quick.

He ain't fast. He's a good mover, but he's not like a Lamar mover. It's not like a Cam Newton, Vic, Josh Allen mover. Like, no chance. Arm is good. I was about to say fine. It's good. It ain't, you know,

thrown a hole through sheet metal. You know what I'm saying? This is not like hitting 70 yards on the distance. Like this is just a fine arm. So gambling on traits for a guy who doesn't even have elite traits. So his ceiling is capped accordingly. Second thing is that if you're going to do the worst smarter than his college coaches thing, you have to acknowledge his college coach is currently in NFL head coach.

Name is Jim Harbaugh. It's pretty smart at this, right? He knows what he's talking about. And so the, the McCarthy argument is a lot of deluge. It is. It is. All right. So what you're saying is Sheel, your take is reasonable, even though you haven't watched him on film yet. Yes. Now, you could pull another draft analyst and put them into the spot and they would tell you, you know, JJ's got the traits and his reps were actually good and how much Michigan through the ball is not about him. And there are some arguments there. I think you are drafting a Brock Bertie S player. I think you are drafting a guy that at his best is going to be the 14th best quarterback in the league. And the whole value of the Niners getting that guys that they got him with the 200 and a billionth pick. And not the eighth pick.

But apparently leagues want to take the guy at 11. So I wouldn't mind investing in a JJ McCarthy. I really wouldn't. I think he's got good intangibles. I think he's got good traits. He's got flashes of good film. And there's absolutely a starting NFL quarterback in there. I would much rather take him at 60.

But the fact is the NFL is going to take him at 10. And so that's my Jay Jim McCarthy understanding. I'm just, as I went through the week, everybody in their mama on a mic or off the mic mic wanted to talk about Jason McCarthy. Nobody wanted to talk about Jane Daniels. the quarterback at LSU. My sense is that the league is a lot closer

to McCarthy QB3 than Daniels QB3. It's not to say every team is that way, not to say it's going to be that way in April. I wrote about this by column that got aggregated real freaking fast. I right now, like Jane Daniels could still go two to the commanders. Teams are going to have QB2 through four as different rankings across the board.

I just think it has to be acknowledged. McCarthy is not the set four. He is in the conversation for three for sure. You're too young to come. be complaining about aggregators. When I was your age, I'm like, aggregate me. Come on, bring the traffic my way. I got to show this to the bosses, you know, aggregate, aggregate away. You should embrace the aggregation. The juice is not worth to squeeze with aggregation, right? People aggregate. Ben said James McCarthy is closer to QB3 and Jane Daniels. Then Jane Daniels goes three to the Patriots.

McCarthy goes eight to the Falcons. I'm the biggest idiot in the world. It's like, okay, that's not what I said, A and B, look at this other stuff I wrote. That was smart. all right this is a longer kind of this feels this feels like a yeah maybe like a mid-June conversation or something we'll leave it there i i think you're right about the the vikings are sort of the like like a big what domino is going to fall type team of the off season because you can really talk yourself into different things i feel like with the vikings i mean on one hand if they bring back kirk cousins and i'm looking at the supporting cast on offense and somebody wanted to predict that they win the NFC North or wildcard team,

totally reasonable thing to do, in my opinion. But if they go the other way and you don't have cousins and you're drafting a quarterback, and now you're looking at the defense and saying, all right, was that just some Brian Flores smoking mirrors and they're not that talented and how long is this going to take with the new quarterback and you've got Justin Jefferson? So they're sort of in this weird spot where I like the wide receivers, I like the offensive tackles, I like the coach, I like the defensive coordinator, but I have no idea what they're going to look like in September

and whether I think they're going to be a good team or a bad team. So part of it does feel like the reports out of Minnesota, part of it's out of their control, where they basically have a number or a structure that they are willing to bring Kurt Cousins back on and whether they're going to be disciplined about that or not, I don't know, but if he gets a better off for somewhere else, they seem to be like sort of willing to live with that

and go another route like you're saying. What's the city of the Vikings plan? Minneapolis, right? Or no? What's the state? Minnesota. Are these trick questions? No, no, no, no.

You said that you had, as you were talking there, you had a Minnesota that had a little Minnesota on it. It just had a little, little Minnesota spice. I wasn't sure where that one came from, but it's stuck in there. All right, there you go. All right. My final take, let's stick NFC North heavy podcast today, because I'm sticking in the NFC North.

I think the Detroit Lions are the number. one team to watch in the trade market in the weeks and months ahead. Okay. I think they are going to find a way to add a piece, a big piece on defense. Okay. So I'm looking at this Lions team. One of the NFL's best teams last season. But it's a very interesting off season.

You have a lot of good teams with a lot of resources. It's not like, oh, these teams that stunk last year, they're the team's going to be making all the moves. No, no. The Lions can make some moves. have some flexibility with their cap. They have four picks in the top 100. They've got Ben Johnson back as their offensive coordinator. And look at who they're pending free agents are. It is not a long list. I mean, it's both guards on offense and maybe you bring one of them back and let one of them walk.

It's Chauncey Gardner Johnson on defense. It's not like the core pieces on this lines team that was so good last year are out there in free agency and they've got to fill those holes. They don't. Also, they've got a bunch of young players who theoretically should, improve next season. Excuse me. So I'm looking at the lions and it's like, what are they going to add? And it's really two areas I'm looking at. Edge rusher and or cornerback.

Edge rusher. I think you mentioned Jonathan Grenard, right? As a possible Detroit Lions on a recent podcast. I like that one. If not, pre-agency, a guy like Casson Reddick, Brian Burns. The Brian Burns chat, I think we were ahead of the curve. Soak on Brian Burns. Let's see what happens here.

but the reports, you know, there were reports that they're not talking long-term extension with him. And I continue to believe that he's a guy who could get tagged and could get traded. So I think one way or another, keep an eye on the lions for an edge rusher. But maybe more likely is cornerback. Legerious Sneed, got tagged right as we were coming on to record. This podcast, is he a guy who could get tagged and traded from the Kansas City Chiefs? Talk about a great scheme fit for Detroit. I mean, again, I described him in my pre-agency rankings, looking for a fight on every snap.

Those cornerbacks are rare in the NFL, and I could just see them loving a guy like Legerius Knees. I mean, we know Aaron Glenn wants to play man coverage, aggressive, physical, wired the right way. That's a got to keep an eye on. Other guy I've got my eye on here, So like. Marshawn Latimore. I literally just searched his name on Twitter to make sure I pull up to report correctly. Yeah, of the New Orleans Saints. I think it was Jeremy Fowler who first mentioned him on ESPN.com as a trade possibility.

His contract is a little tricky. They did a restructure. I encourage everyone if you're interested, go to over thecap.com and read Jason Fitzgerald on that. But the too long didn't read summary is that it would be better for the Saints to trade Marshawn Latimore in the summer than around draft time. After June 1st, it becomes easier for the Saints to trade Marshaun Latimore. he's entering his age 28 season. He's got no guaranteed money on his deal beyond 2024. He's had injuries.

He's only played in 17 games over the past two seasons. But this is a guy. This is a man corner, physical, somebody who Aaron Glenn has obviously coached before, who Dan Campbell knows there's that familiarity with people in the building. I think someone like Marshaun Latimore for the Lions, like if they were to sign somebody like a Grenard, and then you trade for Latimore, let's say, you know, middle of June for, I don't know, I don't think it's going to take a ton given his injury history. Jalen Ramsey, remember, he only got a third round pick when the Rams traded Ramsey to the

Dolphins. I think he was a year older than Latimore is now. So that could be the type of draft compensation you're looking at. That would get me pretty excited about this Lions team. I was doing summaries for all these teams. All right, is the arrow pointing out, arrow pointing down. For Lions, I wrote could win the Super Bowl in 2024. I mean, I still, I'm looking at that This is not like a team that is losing a lot. Like I mentioned, and it's a team with the ability to add pieces this offseason. So I think the Lions, I don't think they're going to be reckless. I don't think that's what Brad Holmes does.

It's not going to be all in and we're aggressive adding everybody. But I do think they have a move or two specifically in the trade market that they could make, that could really upgrade their roster going into next season. I love this. I was a big Lions make a move at the deadline team, right? Guy, I wanted them to go, okay, be the team that moves for Montez Sweat, be the team that moves for all wide receivers frustrated with the spot. They needed more star power.

That's the thing I've talked about with the Lions now for over a year. Like, once they were clearly good at the end of the 2022 season, it was like, all this homegrown talent is excellent. You got to get more punch in here. You got more franchise star stuff. And they drafted so well that they have some of those guys. But still, you want to get some veterans in there. You want to get some dudes who are just known commodities, top 10 at their position,

set your watch to it. And here they are now Detroit with, right, coming off the NFC, championship game. They're not going to have the same draft capital they did in last year's draft. They have all these homegrown extensions to sign Jared Gough. They can extend Penae Soule this year if they want. They're going to send him on Ross St. Brown. He's going to be looking for one for sure. They have some internal stuff to do, but they have a lot of cap space. And they can structure those deals such that there's some relief in in 2024 and in 2025 that the big money

doesn't kick in until 26 and 27. So they can go and they can make a trade for a guy who's on a big contract right now, like a Marshall on Latimore, trade for a guy who's on the tag like Lagerius-need, structure a deal stuff, but he gets more big money early. And then you hit him on Ron, you hit a penny stool later. Like that to have the three spots you need help at right now, be wide receiver, right? Because Josh Brown is approaching free agency that right now they are Monross, St. Brown and Jameson Williams. They need a better wide receiver two over Jameson to start with.

They could really benefit from like a top tier guy as well. Edgerusher where they need a contemporary to Aidan Hodgson. They need a guy who can run opposite him. And then corner where they just, help at both spots. The three positions for you to need in this NFL, wide receiver, edge, and corner, that's amazing. There's so many good ones. They're all over the place. Find someone who's angry and go get them. So yeah, I did a Detroit Lions and kind of team site hit in Indianapolis and they asked me about, okay, like, should the Lions, like,

if the Lions drafted and developed amazingly last year, do you think they'll just do that again? I was like, they might, but I hope they don't. Like, now is the go time, right? they've really made one huge, like trade up, big swing, multiple picks in a draft. I'd say overall with Brad Holmes. It was the James and Williams trade. And then it goes super great for them. So I'm kind of worried they're going to be a little burned. But I hope that Brad Holmes remembers his Rams days.

All right. Remember what Les taught you. Go bigger, go home, brother. Go get some star talent in the building. I love this. I think Detroit Cannon should be big swingers over the next couple weeks. Yeah, they're in a really good spot. And you don't, like you said, I mean, is Ben Johnson going to be?

there this time next year. Who knows? So you really want to tow that line between sustained success for the long term and being, excuse me, and being aggressive and trying to do what you can to upgrade and try to win a Super Bowl here in this next season. All right. Extra point taken. So like, what do you, what are you given to us this week? What's on your mind? I am usually made fun of for my interest in rule changes. However, I will, I will stay the true path. I will stay the narrow way. Oh. I think it's time for the NFL to revisit more seriously the fourth and 15 onside kick proposal. This is a proposal that the Philadelphia Eagles made multiple times over the last couple of years, replacing the onside kick with fourth and 15 from your own

25. All right. You pick up 15 yards on this down. You get the ball, wherever the ball landed, right? If it was a 16 yard gain or a 40 yard gain, that's for you. And keep going. The reason why I think this a good time for the revisit is because of the incoming potential changes to the standard kickoff expected to be voted on at league meetings later in March is a change to the NFL kickoff. This year, we saw only 5.2% of onside kicks were covered because teams, you can't run up to the kick anymore, where you have to just kind of stand there statically. And so onside kicks were very low. There were only two surprise onside kicks. And with the new incoming kickoff rules, those surprise onside kicks might be totally eliminated.

The NFL is considering and we'll vote on adopting a kickoff more in the XFL model that was shown in 2019 and 2020 before COVID hit, where the cover men from the receiving team and the blocking men from the, excuse me, the blocking men from the receiving team and the cover men from the kicking team both line in a straight line, five yards apart for one another, on the receiving team's 35, 40 yard line, right? So instead of, you know, big, spread out. All of our guys are running down the field. All of your blockers are kind of placed

to different positions. We get some high collision contacts. It's just 10 dudes, landed across from 10 dudes on the 35 and on the 40. The kicker kicks the ball off, the receiver receives it, and at that time, those guys collide, but with only five yards worth of velocity, right? So you're going to take on some high impact collisions down. You're going to take some injuries down. The particular rule that the NFL is proposed would see a kickoff, a kick that actually 100% lands in the end zone, that would move up to the 35 yard line. That would give the opposing team the ball at 35. That is a very, very big deal. And if there was a kick that landed inside the 20 and dribbled into the end zone, that would give you the ball at the 20. This proposal was put together by NFL special

teams coaches who were challenged by the league to increase the number of kick returns. We saw a low number, a season-wide low number of kickoff returns in 2022, 2023. So, okay, you're going to change the kickoff to, you know, make, to punish touchbacks more so that way returners return it more often. You're going to move with the blockers and the cover men are. So that way there's lower, high impact collisions and you're just going to see more kickoff recurrence. Excellent, sexy, juicy, great. We love it. I love it onside kick. I don't want to lose an onside kick. Obviously, the surprise onside kick, you lose that. You can declare an onside kick and then still line up for the traditional onside kick, and that's certainly fun. But if the league wants to

continue ratcheting up excitement, they want to continue reaching for. big moments and Titans beat the dolphins, they were down 14 with two seconds left, like all this nonsense, whatever, you need to ensure that there is a practicable and actionable way to get to steal an extra possession, to get the ball back for free. And if you change the geometry of the kickoff, right, if you completely change how the kickoff initially aligns, you are going to force special teams units to practice a whole separate onside kickoff period, right, in terms of like, where you're going to force special teams units, you're going to force special teams' units to practice a whole separate onside kickoff period, right, in terms of like where the cover guys line up, where the return

guys line up and what the strategies are. And I think that's going to be bad. I think the teams are not going to invest in that very much. I think you're going to see the likelihood of an onside kick be recovered to continue to decline, decline, decline, decline, which means just chuck it out and replace it with 4th and 15. Who does the love with 4th and 15? Who doesn't love Patrick Mahler 5th,000 written down the bottom of the screen? Three by one motion, Tony Rom, what is the play they're going to run? What sort of covers just saying the other thing? That's a highly practiced thing, too. preparing for third and 54 and 15 defend the sticks. Everybody's got the third and long calls. They got their blitz calls. That is an exciting fight. So I like the kickoff change rules,

but I'm worried that we're losing recipes. We're losing the onside kick. If that's the case, I hope that they chase these kickoff rules with a reimagination of the onside kick, in particular, the fourth and 15 proposal that the Eagles had a couple years ago. I was recently having a conversation with my kids where I was telling them, you know, I was a pretty good student. Like when I was in school, I could pay attention. to what the teachers were saying. But now I said, my mind just wanders. Like when I'm getting, and now, like, my mind was wandering a little bit there.

It's hard to explain the kickoff rules, okay? They're very challenging to communicate. I'm just trying to be honest. I was like, wait, I thought he was talking about on-side kicks, but now he's talking about kickoffs. I know the listeners enjoy it. Because when you talked about hip-drop tackles, people got mad at me. They said, Ben is right. I said that I'm not anything.

If you, just my mind, now onside kick, fourth and 15 over on side kick, I'm a yes. Okay. I thought I also heard you say the league wants more kickoff returns. I had the whole point was that kickoff returns are dangerous and we don't want kickoff returns. Now they want kickoff returns. So what the NFL came to special teams coordinators with was this. Kickoff returns have been dangerous. And so we've made some changes to make them less dangerous.

We got rid of wedge blocking, right? we got rid of, like, instead of having the... Okay, that's the XFL stuff you were talking about. No, not yet. Stick with me. No. I'm going to get set down in the hallway. Okay.

Remember, like, Prime Devonester clips, right? Oh, yeah, I love that. Right? The blocking team could. The kickoff team, you could have the players run up, right? They had like a big, like, you know, five yard, 10 yard, you know, run at full speed thing. Now they just stand there inert. They can't wait.

They can't generate any momentum. You can't wedge block anymore. the league was trying to turn down, right, decrease the number of high-impact collisions, remove concussions. And they had success fewer injuries on kickoffs. However, an unintended consequence of that is that fewer and fewer teams are just returning kickoffs. They're just taking more and more touchbacks intentionally, right?

So, they also moved to kickoff up a little bit. So to elicit more kickoff returns without inviting more high-impact injuries, they're trying to go to the XFL model now. They're going to vote on it at the end of March, where all 10 guys line up on the 40, the other 10 guys line up on the 35, kickoff is received, and boom, we start blocking right from there. So now there's fewer high impacts, but you're still getting kickoff returns. That's why the special teams coaches recommended moving a touchback up from the 25 to the 35 yard line, which is a hugely buried lead in this right now, right?

If you kick the ball into the end zone, the other team gets about the 35. 25 to 35 is a massive difference. So, okay, so you're trying to stop touchbacks, you're trying to invite more kickoff returns. Great. I think the new unintended consequence would be that nobody ever successfully recovers an onset kick ever and they should go to the fourth and 15 model.

I'm jealous of your energy and your enthusiasm. How are you not dialed in on it? My issue is there's very little and I get at trouble with my own house and it's like, why don't you care about that more? And it's just like, I don't know, I can't control what it. Why aren't you more excited about?

I don't know, I can't control. Why don't they just start with the ball at the 20? Do we need kickoff? Wasn't that what Larry David suggested? The Simmons, I was on board with them. They don't need kickoffs at all. To start at a yard line, pick the yard line, and start there. I don't need to see a kickoff.

All right. What I always like to ask when it comes to rule changes is, will this give smart, optimized teams an edge, right? What I want in rule changes is I want the teams that prepare well and the teams that investigate a ton of resources and you try to figure stuff out. I want those teams to benefit. That's what I want to happen in rule changes. That's why like, oh, ban the chush bush.

No, the Eagles found an edge. You suck. Like, that's it. Like, keep good edges. I think the return should be retained because I like the fact that if a team is good at scouting and has a good special teams coordinator, they can find an edge on you that you don't have. So you have to retain the kickoff. But you also have to acknowledge that if no one's recovering onside kicks, you're losing TV juice.

You're losing entertainment juice. And that's why the fourth and 15 is good. All right. There you go. Solex, extra point taken. We're today, it's, listen, you did a good job. I can hear the mockery in your tone. I want to be clear.

get to the clothes. Get me out of here. You did a good job. It's on me. I'm thinking full responsibility. Sometimes the mind wanders. I can't stay focused on stuff like this. Extra point taken. I guess. Shields in his head might not be like I would have said something about Chris Jones's landing spot. No. That was a good job by you. That's what the extra point taken is for. To say something that's on your mind. All right. That'll do it. For this. Oh, extra point taken. Thank you to Ben Solac. Thank you to Cliff August. for producing Eduardo Ocampo for his video production, additional production supervision by Connor and Arjuna, Romgopal. We will be back on Friday. I think there could be trades to discuss.

I think there could be some other juicy nuggets to discuss. We will be what, two, one, two, three days away from the start of the negotiating period on Friday. So that will be fun. And of course, you'll get Stephen and Nora on dual threat before then. Appreciate everyone listening. Have a great week. We'll talk to you on Friday. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Fandwell is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino, LLC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-Gambler or visit fandle.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, and Virginia.

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