The Ringer NFL Show - Sam Darnold to the Panthers, Plus: Which Teams Could Trade Up in the Draft for a Quarterback | Big Board

Episode Date: April 6, 2021

'The Ringer Fantasy Football Show' hosts Danny Heifetz and Danny Kelly are joined by Kaelen Jones to discuss their reactions to quarterback Sam Darnold being traded to the Carolina Panthers (0:40). Then they look at each team in the first round of the draft and discuss whether they could trade up for a quarterback (25:58). Follow 'The Ringer Fantasy Football Show'. Hosts: Danny Heifetz and Danny Kelly Guest: Kaelen Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ringer's Dave Hill takes you on a journey into the underground lives and careers of six professional gamblers. This eight-part podcast is a unique look into the gambling world that you don't want to miss. Check out gamblers on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Ringer NFL show. My name is Danny Heifitz, and I am joined by my co-host, Danny Kelly, and our colleague, NFL staff writer, Kaelin Jones. We have a trade. Big trade. Big trade. Panthers get Sam Darnold.

Panthers get Sam Darnold. Jets get his second rounder next year, a fourth rounder next year, and a six this year. We're seeing ghosts, not Sam Darnold, because we already did a pod today about what the Panthers will do trading up.

And then they made a trade. Just cut it. We just scrap the whole thing. We're doing it now. So again, Panthers get Darnold. Jets get a future second, or sorry,

future second, future fourth, sixth this year. DK, who won this trade? Or is it a win-win? I think it's a win for Sam Darnold. I think it's a fresh start for him. He, they acquired, they gave up enough to like make it.

Like obviously a sixth round this year when I first, when I was reading the tweet was like a sixth rounder. And I was like, oh God, that's not very much. And then second, a second and a fourth next year. That's significant enough of an investment I feel like in Sam Darnel. Plus it sounds like they picked up his fifth year option. So it sounds like a vote of confidence clearly.

I mean, they're trading for him. But they gave up enough to make this feel like they're going to commit to Darnold this year. I like the landing. spot. I like Joe Brady as an offensive coordinator. I like the weapons around him. CMC, DJ Moore, Robbie Anderson. I think, yeah, number one, big winner for me is Sam Darnold, because there was speculation and maybe like the idea and the thought that he was just not going to be a starter this next year. And I think that, I think now we know he's going to be. Kaelin, do you agree? Who won the

trade? Yeah, no, I totally agree with with everything that D.K. just said. But, you know, first of all, big winner, hamper social media, because whatever they were sitting on for for the past like two months or how long they've been negotiated this. They were ready for it. The big winner, though, I think is Joe Brady. You know, we interviewed with the Eagles with the Falcons. We knew that next cycle, he was probably going to be a really big head coaching candidate. But I think, especially if you take Sam Darnold and tap into that potential, anything out of it,

and maybe legitimize him within his offense this year, I mean, Joe Brady's going to, to be the hottest name on the market going in the next year and you just solidified it. So that's my pick. That's a really interesting like, because on one hand when you started saying that, I was like, well, I mean, he could have had like a Justin Fields or whoever. Right. But like if he can turn around

Darnold and really start to make him look good, he's going to look like a QB genius. So I actually, I love this angle. That's very interesting point of view. All right. Serious question for you guys. D.K. Is Sam Darnold good? I don't know why you're laughing.

I don't know. I understand. No, I understand that you're being serious. It's a, and the reason I laugh is I don't really know. To be honest, that's stalling.

How do you answer that? I think, number one, it's very difficult to know who's good in the Adam Gase offense. Like, we've seen this over the years. Adam Gase has a remarkable talent for making everybody on his offense look worse than they actually are. Or maybe just like conversely,

everyone seems to get better when they leave his offense. Um, however, yeah, no, it does, however, Devanti Parker, Kenyon Drake,

Robbie Anderson, people have career years when they leave Adam Gase's offense. Yeah. And that being said, there's just very little evidence to suggest that Sam Darnold is good. Put it that way. He just hasn't been good.

He's been, you know, the whole famous, like, I was seeing ghosts out there. He's jittery in the pocket. He doesn't know what he's seeing, seeing all the time.

He's too aggressive. He turns them all over. This is an issue that goes back to college days where coming in, one of the biggest concerns about him was too many turnovers, too many interceptions. And that's absolutely borne out in the pros. And I don't know if that's something you can fix. But that being said, like, I'm still keeping an open mind about this. And I do think he's a big winner here because I think he goes to a system that it's going to be much, much better for him and cater to his skill set better. And I don't know, man,

it was just always going to be difficult for him to succeed in that situation. To your point about Donald being bad. So there's, 42 quarterbacks last few years who've thrown 500 passes. Donald ranks 41st out of 42 guys in passer rating, ranks 41st out of 42 and adjusted yards per attempt. The only guy he's ahead of is Josh Rosen.

Yikes. So with that said, Kaelan, what do you think of Donald? I think he's talented. I do think he's still like he's obviously talented, but again, the consistency hasn't been there and that's what defines good quarterbacks in the NFL. And to To DK's point, you know, the turnovers have been a problem. I think the aggression early on in his career, and even last year, was still a problem.

But you look at the next gen stats on him, I mean, in terms of the aggression rate, he was fifth highest in his rookie year at 19%, dropped the 12th at 17.9%. And last year, he was only aggressive in terms of drawing, targeting receivers where a defender was only one yard or less than a receiver. He was only doing it 13% on his attempts, which ranked 37. amongst quarterbacks last year. So, I mean, I think there's still hope. The talent, I think, in the ceiling, and it's similar to the whole conundrum with James Winston. I think CBS's Chris Raposal actually pointed out

in his pre-draft breakdown of Sam Darnold. He likened to the James because that NFL talent, I think, is there. I think when the peak plays for Sam Darno, if you cut a highlight reel of him and you just showed it to a random person who didn't know it was, they'd be like, holy shit, who is that? That's a good quarterback. But the low lights are like, get this guy out of the league. So I think the potential is there is what I'm saying.

And he's only 23, somehow younger to me. So I think there's a chance. That is the other thing. I think that's so fascinating about this thing is, is Donald is going into his fourth season, I believe. And he is like 15 months older than Mack Jones. He's younger than Joe Burrow. He's like, it is a weird thing.

It's a good reminder. Like he was a very, very young. I think he came into the NFL and he's like 20. So yeah, that's the other thing is like you got to keep in mind is, you know, he's still very young. He has the potential to develop. Everything we have seen, though, like I think the highlights versus low lights thing is, is perfect point that, you know, it's like James. Like are the, are the good moments like a strong enough thing to like, you know, balance out the really horrific moments where you're like, what did he see there? What is he?

What is that decision? It's just atrocious. But here's the thing. He was playing for Adam Gase. Like we cannot say this enough. How are we supposed to evaluate him for the worst coach in the NFL? Like it's not, here's the thing. What are we talking about here?

Can the Panthers get Darnold and turn him around? The last quarterback that Adam Gase had literally left Miami and became one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. Like this isn't a hypothetical. This just happened with the last guy yet. Ryan Tannahill was the like consummate, whoa, will this be the year for Ryan Tannahill guy? Every year for like four seasons.

He leaves, he goes to Tennessee for what, a fourth rounder? Guess what? DK, as you pointed out multiple times last year, in the last two seasons in Tennessee, Ryan Tain Hill ranks first in yards per attempt ahead of Patrick Mahomes. He ranks first in adjusted yards per attempt ahead of Patrick Mahomes

by statistically, by any statistic. measure, Ryan, like efficiency, Ryan Tanhill is elite since he's been to Tennessee. So it's not like crazy to think that, hey, maybe this guy who led it

the most incompetent organization in the entire sport the last few years wasn't a great place to succeed. I kind of buy that this is totally possible. Yeah. So Tana Hill is the outlier, though. Tana Hill is the massive, massive outlier. I do get that he's connected to Adam Gase

and that is something to worth think. It's worth thinking about, at least, and like pondering and considering. I'm going to keep an open mind about it. I think Darnold, like you said, he has the talent, getting him out of that gay system, anything can happen. Let's see what happens. I like it.

So I think it comes down. The last thing I want to say here, the Jets in the quote unquote, the Darnold era, last three years. You can describe blame here however you want, but they literally link last, rank last, if I can speak English, rank last in points, last in yards,

yards per play, first downs, third down, third down percentage. Like, everything that matters, basically. They literally have gotten the most points against the spread. So Vegas has assigned them as worse than every other team. And despite getting more points than any team, they also had the worst record against the spread. Like, this is astonishing shit. You can't make that up.

Having said that, why? Now, is it Donald's fault? Is it Gase's fault? How do you assign blame? I would argue we don't know how... Because an offense is like a movie, right? like you can have a good actor, but if the director's bad and the editing's bad

and the writing's bad and the script's bad, what are you supposed to do? Here's just ponder this. This is from Brian Costello of the New York Post. Donald has played with 15 wide receivers, nine tight ends, seven running backs, seven left guards,

five right guards, five right tackles, four centers, four left tackles. None of those 56 players made a pro bowl as a jet. How are we supposed to evaluate this guy? I think you're taking a flyer,

for a future second on a guy that everyone was like, yeah, good number three pick, could have gone number one of the Jets three years ago, who's one year older than Matt Jones, who's just been anointed as the third pick to the Niners, I think this is totally worth it. Got to figure it out. Buying the dip, it's smart.

It's a good move by the Panthers, but it's also probably like plan D for them, right? I think that's like it. I mean, we'll see how it goes, but Panthers were clearly involved in the Matt Stafford sweepstakes. they were going, they were in the running apparently for Deshaun Watson before the 22 lawsuits were brought up against him. And there was, I think there's, you know, maybe there's these rumors that go around that they really liked. Or maybe we don't know.

They really liked Zach Wilson at number two. But now it seems very clear that the Jets are taking Zach Wilson at number two. So this is like the nineers left up the three. Correct. And then the Niners jumped up to them. Although, you know, I was listening to a really. good podcast by Josh Norris over at Underdog. And he pointed out, this was before this trade went down earlier this afternoon,

he said he was convinced that the Panthers were not going to pick a quarterback in this draft. And it's looking like he's absolutely correct. But his line of thinking was David Tepper. He's this hedge fund manager guy, like, you know, wheel and deal billionaire type guy, very aggressive. Norris's contention was that if the Panthers wanted to, they could have beaten the 49ers and gone up to number three.

So what that indicates, I guess, is like connect, you're sort of making some logic leaps here. But what that indicates is that they really like Zach Wilson and Trevor Lawrence, but not Fields, Lance, or Mac Jones, quite as much. And this trade now says, we're out of the running. Well, I think it probably says that. I'm not 100% sure, but I think it says, we're out of the running at number eight. Now they can take a skill player and going back to the support system around Sam Darnold,

like they could take Devante Smith. They could take maybe Kyle Pitts if he falls to that spot, Jalen Waddle. They can really add more speed, more, you know, explosiveness, more dynamism to their offense. I think it's just really exciting what they could do now with, you know, the quarterback situation, I guess, resolve for the short term at least. So as a prospect, D.K., how does Donald stack up to the other option? So Lawrence, let's say Lawrence is off the board, did the Jaguars.

Let's say Zach Wilson's off the board of the Jets. And we'll get to that in a second. But for Carolinas, for lack of a better term, cost-benefit analysis, how does Darnold as a prospect compare to Trey Lance, Mac Jones, and Justin Fields? Well, I definitely would rather have Fields or Lance over them. And I think I'm coming around to the idea that Mac Jones is going to be a really good pro. So I probably would choose. Your what?

What? Your bait, what? Well, I never was super down on Mac Jones. I think I had him ranked like in the late 20s, early 30s. Like, he's a first round player to me, but more of like a game, more in the game manager spectrum of quarterback than like a big time, you know, creator and everything that we see from like the Mahomes is of the world. But I think he's going to be a good pro. I'm still very unsure what Darnold is going to be. I think I might put Donald after all those guys.

I'd rather have the unknown, I think, maybe. He's only one year older than Fields in Matt Jones. That is actually the thing. That's the thing that like makes me pause a little bit. You know, he does have the NFL experience now, and he's still that age. But I don't know, it's one of those things where sometimes a player can just, like, lose their confidence and never come back to where they used to be. Let me put it this way. I certainly would rather have Fields or Tray Lance.

And then we could, like, it's getting close with the Mac Jones versus Sam Donald thing for me. Okay. We're going to get back to the Jets in a second. But Kalin, what do you see the Panthers doing with Teddy Bridgewater? Their GM said today that they're going to find the right place for him, which is very sweet. Where do you think? What do you think happens to Teddy? I mean, I think they find the way to deal into Denver, right? I feel like that would be a logical landing spot because you look at Drew Locke right now.

He's not completely solidified as they're starting quarterback. Denver, unless they somehow find a way to move up, like if Atlanta, who is reportedly willing to move down, if they're not able to make a jump to number four so they could get a tree land or Justin Fields, whoever falls out of that top four, then, it makes a lot of sense to give Drew Locke one more year in a regular offseason and normal offseason and also bring someone who was as stable as Bridgewater is even if he doesn't provide

the unlimited upside that you probably have with other players. So I think that Bridgewater, you know, his time is up. It was a really weird tenure. Like for Carolina to the side, they were going to go and get him and commit that type of money to him. And then just after one year to decide, oh, he's the same player who he's,

shown to be over the past two, three years of his career, really, arguably your aisle's entire career, which is not elevate your offense to the next level. Yeah. But it's a very strange play by Carolina. Like their whole mentality as far as like the need

to go get an elite quarterback or at least a franchise quarterback is really interesting to me, but at least he'll be able to move on from Bridgewater and put him potentially in a situation where he compete for a starting job. This move, like the speed at which they've done this, the aggressiveness at which they've made these,

or at least been involved in the quarterback, you know, dealings is, it sort of speaks to me like, this is Teper being like, all right, I see enough. Yeah, David Teper. So I was looking at Teddy, his stats, basically the splits last year. Like his overall stats were fine. It wasn't like super, you know, good or bad on either side. But if you see, if you look at the first week's, sorry, week one through nine versus week 10th for 16.

So weeks 1 through 9, he averaged 255 yards a game, 13 touchdowns, 7 picks, 98.7 pass rating. He took 19 sacks in that stretch. Weeks 10 through 16, his completion percentage was like 62%. 236 yards per game, two touchdowns and four ints. Two touchdowns of four interceptions. We've talked about this. You cannot call interceptions ins. I know, I'm reading the stats hyphids.

Give me a break. You're like Ron Burgundy, like whatever you write down. whatever I put on the page. Anyways, then it's past rating dropped to 78. So pass rating 78 over the last five games is atrocious. Here's the Bridgewater stat that I think is why they made this deal today in one sentence. Teddy Bridgewater had eight opportunities for a game winning drive. And the Panthers went 0 and 8 in those games.

Oh, man. Yeah, that's not great. That's a good set. And that's like the difference between going to the playoffs and not, you know what I mean? It's that's huge. So, yeah. So, okay. So let's get back to the Jets.

for a second. DK, they're taking Zach Wilson. Second, this is locked in. They're taking a quarterback, obviously. Is it Zach Wilson or what? Yeah, I mean, I think it's Zach Wilson.

All signs point to that, it's 99% I guess at this point. Okay. I don't, like, I hate the conventional wisdom of just everyone talking to each other. Like, yeah,

it'll be Zach Wilson. It'll be Zach Wilson. We talked to with us, the darnal draft. Everyone thought Donald or Josh Allen was going first, two days for months. And then two days before,

it's like, oh, by the way, it's going to be Baker. We're like, And I'm still in the back of my mind waiting for the tweet from Schaefter. Obviously, because it's Sheffter, who we love, it will be oddly worded, as always. But on Tuesday, waiting for that tweet where it's like, by the way, the Jets are going to take Justin Fields. And we're like, I can't believe we believe that.

But until then, I think it's Zach Wilson. That would be chaos. Chaos. Absolutely chaos. The Jets are going to be the first team to pick two quarterbacks in the top three in a four-year span in the Super Bowl era. That's actually also a Schefter stat right there from his research. Evan Kaplan. Wow.

I found this quote from Jets chairman Christopher Johnson, which he said a few days after they took to Arnold. Quote, I honestly think people are going to look back 20 years from now and say this is the moment the Jets shifted into a new gear that they became a great team. I mean, you got to have that belief.

I hope you have that belief if you're taking them there. I mean, technically it could be possible if let's say it leads to them selecting, I mean, it paved the way for them potentially getting their franchise quarterback now. Who knows? I mean, so Domino effect.

We're going to have a lot of time to talk about Zach Wilson. For this trade, Kaelin, do you like this hall that the Jets got? Like, do you think they got a good package for Darnold?

Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, for them to get a second round pick and a fourth round pick out of that. I know it's, you know,

next year, but still, you consider that Sam Darnold, you know, he hasn't looked good. There's no reason that he probably should have been worth more than at best,

a third round pick. You look at what the halls that, other quarterbacks fetched for former, you know, first round picks who blamed out. Josh Rosen a few years ago, second round pick to the dolphins, or from the dolphins and as well as a fifth round pick. And then even when you consider this off season, I mean, the Colts ended up giving what would amount to a first round pick for Carson Wentz. I know that he's, has a lot more tenure. But you can, when you figure in like the $20 million cap hit that they

would have to potentially, you know, take if he doesn't end up being good. And the other monies that are involved with that. I mean, it's a pretty cheap deal when you consider that he's a rookie or still on his rookie deal and he has high upside. So I don't hate the deal either way for both parties involved, and especially for the Jets to get that kind of return on him. So I can't help but feel like every, like the entire conversation about quarterbacks right now is it's almost like the industry, like us and media, we're talking out of both sides of her mouth. If you look in the future, we're like, Trey Lance, no one's excited about Mac Jones, except the Niders apparently,

but like Justin Fields, Trevor Lawrence, look at all these guys. And we're just like, oh, yeah, well, all of them are going to be good. And then we look back. Marioita is a backup for the Raiders. James is a half starter for the Saints. That was one two in 2015.

2016, the top two picks, Goff and Wentz just got traded. Both of them gave up, their teams gave up on them. Like, we now have, we talk about Josh Rosen, who the Cardinals cut at bait after one year. Darnel just got dealt for a second.

rounder. With the exception of Rosen, all those guys were like pretty well regarded as prospects. Dick, are we doing something wrong here? Should we just be less excited or more realistic about these quarterbacks or what? Well, I think I don't know, that's a tough question.

Essentially you're asking, should we be more negative about these guys all the time or what? I think there's, I understand the optimism and trying to view things through the lens that, you know, this is what he can do.

You know what I mean? Like the old, the max of what he tell me what he can do versus what he can't do. And especially with guys like Justin Herbert and Josh Allen, surprising a lot of people, honestly. Like, people did not like Josh Allen as a prospect outside the NFL anyway.

Like, it was a joke. And he's turned into one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. And so, and then the Justin Herbert thing, like, he was by far like third fill or whatever you want to call it. Behind Barrow. and Tua last year, people, I wouldn't say he was a punchline, but he was definitely like on a

different tier. And he turned out to be maybe the best of the bunch. Well, we'll see with Burrow, obviously, but, um, and Tua. But I mean, right now he's looking like an awesome, awesome pick. So I think while you, while you say that, yes, like a lot of guys have failed, I'm also finding myself having an open mind about everybody or having a more open mind than I maybe would before. Um, so I would actually say it's the opposite. it. I'm not like, wow.

I'm not like, you know, say like, oh, these guys are terrible. Like, look at their obvious, like, flaws. I'm like, okay, if they fall into the right situation, this guy could be really awesome. And that's kind of just how I look at it. But I think at the same time, you have to be realistic. Like, in this draft class, you might see one good quarterback or two good quarterbacks. Like, that would be a historical average. Maybe it's a special class.

And maybe all four or five of them are good. But odds are, again, that for sure. Galen? No, I mean, it's a look at the industrial draft complex. I think you alluded to it earlier. It's like, you know,

it's a lot about, yeah, our scrap podcast that we'll never see the line of day. It's like the Snyder cut. If we get one million retweets, we will release the Snyder cut pod from earlier today.

Oh my gosh. And we made it, we laughed about Sam Darnel. That's the irony of that too. But yeah, I mean, like the draft has so much to do with projection. And the funny thing is,

I think we talked about a meeting we had. You know, with scouts and scouting NFL players and specifically quarterbacks, it's not like people are wrong. They're hitting on

what a player's strengths are, what their weaknesses are. It's a matter of them falling into the right situation. It's a matter of them falling with the right team, falling into a coach that has the right scheme,

a coach that believes in them, not getting in their head mentally. There are so many factors that we just cannot really put a finger on. So, you know, for players to overplay like whatever expectations they have in the underperform,

I mean, it's not surprising either way. So I'm similar to D.K. where I kind of just have an open mind where, you know, if Zach Wilson is great, I wouldn't be surprised because I've seen it on tape like where he's great. But I also wouldn't be surprised if, you know, he struggled. He's going into, there is a shit ton of pressure on Zach Wilson,

you know, going into the situation. And I mean, you're asking, a guy who didn't play against any high level competition or that much at BYU relatively speaking. Now he's got to go play Bill Belichick twice a year, potentially, Buffalo twice a year, and Miami twice a year. And we're going to expect him to immediately look better than Sam Darnold. This makes me so nervous for him.

It's extremely nervous for him. It's so true, man. Again, like some of this, like why people succeed and fail is complicated. But sometimes it's not rocket science. again, the dude had like seven different seven different right guards. He had like 20 combined linemen over 38 starts. Like how are you supposed to feel safe?

How are you supposed to do anything? Again, you said putting in your position to succeed. May I remind you, Adam Gase was running the damn team, man. Anyway. Hi, Fitz. You're from New York. Is it harder to go to New York?

Is that a real narrative you think or is it overplayed? Like everything, pros and cons, right? Like I would say a lot of athletes probably want to play in New York. But at the same time, it's just a lot of attention. Like that part's very real, but that's not always a bad thing. Just constant. Just constant people talking about it.

I think it's, look, some people seek that out. I mean, C.C. Sabathia on the great, and check out the New York, New York podcast. C.C. Sabathia said on today's, today's Monday, he said today's episode that he wanted to go to New York. Like, he wanted to settle down. And so some guys seek that at the same. Like, I don't know how many quarterbacks are like, oh, no, I'm going to go to New York. But it is a lot. Like, Sam Darnold gets mono.

Like, you are a national storyline. I don't know if Sam Garlander getting mono if he plays in Atlanta. I don't know if anyone really cares. Like, I don't know if that leads first take unless you're on the Jets. Exactly. Dude, the Jaguars went one in 15 and we did not give a single crap about them. We cared about the Jets. Exactly.

It's so true. So, yeah, you know, I would say fame and money make you more of who you are sometimes. You know, depends. So let's kind of zoom out for a second. So let's kind of reassess this draft now. Now that the quarterback has been reshuffled, the Niners have moved, the elephants have moved, the Eagles have moved.

Now we've got the Panthers getting quarterback. Let's just go through the new draft order, one to 32, and let's just figure out who still needs a quarterback. Because right now we've got three quarterbacks going one, two, three, almost for sure. We don't know about the Falcons in four. And like, let's just go through it.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. All right, let's do a little exercise here. So the Jaguar's going to take Trevor Lauren. at one. The Jets, probably Zach Wilson at two. Niners, we don't know, maybe

Mac Jones at three. Falcons. Do we think they're taking a quarterback? Kaelin, what do you think? I don't think so. And I think that they're going to stick with Matt Ryan for another year. D.K. What do you think? Probably trade down. This is a tough one for me. I'm leaning very,

very slightly that they will not take a quarterback here. Just because, like, number one, it's the Matt Ryan thing where basically the restructuring makes it likely they'll be tied to him for two more years and new regime new coaching staff i think that the other the other i think factor that you have to kind of like consider here and i was talking to a buddy of mine who's very plugged into the falcons and he mentioned arthur blank could come in and be like you know because he i think he was

instrumental in the hulio jones trade right was or at least the owner falcons owner correct yeah And when you have a stud skill player who's like a unicorn style player, like Julio Jones, like, who's that in this draft, Kyle Pitts? Kyle Pitts. Yes. Yes. I'm also. That's just what makes me think there's maybe like, maybe Blank will be like, look, I want to get this guy.

You know what I mean? We'll see. This is like, you know, this is just me talking to talking to my buddy who's very plugged in, but that's just the thought. Do you think Arthur Blake is scrolling your draft guide, reading about Kyle Pitts and like, dude, we gotta take this dude. Yeah, yeah. But I don't know.

Okay, we'll see. So Falcons, Big Fat, maybe with leading now. Yeah. Bengals, they have Joe Burrow. They're not going to take a quarterback. No. Dolphins, they have two.

We can Galaxy Brain hits bong here and be like, they're not, they trade it down. They're not taking quarterback. It's bonn. Lions. Jared Goff. They're like a wild card. I don't think they really are.

But anyone here think they will? I feel like they just got gone off. I think I lean that they're going to try and build. the support system, build up the culture, build up everything there, like install, like, their guys and do all that and then worry about the quarterback later. I think that's why they wanted to trade for Jared Gough so much is because he could be a bridge to the future versus just going straight, like with a rookie this year or whatever. So that's where I lean.

Goff is as good as the talent around him. So he allows you to evaluate the talent around him. So it's not the worst. There's got Darnold. Okay. So they're not. They're out of the quarterback. They said they're probably.

But like they are. probably out, right? Like the GM's like, don't rule us out. I'm kind of, I'm gonna rule them out. I'm gonna rule them out. I'm rolling them out.

I agree. Okay. Ten is, the Cowboys, they just paid DAC a lot of money. The Giants are at 11, I would love nothing more than the move on from the Andrew Jones. Not gonna happen.

The Eagles, I feel like they, I mean, even Rappaport of NFL network literally tweeted and then kind of recanted that they wanted to move up to three, but that only for Zach Wilson. And then Zach Wilson's not going to be their problem. so they moved back.

I feel like they're probably not taking a quarterback, right? That's my sense. This shouldn't be. Yeah. All right. Chargers are at 13. They have Herbert, so they're fine.

Vikings are at 14. They have Kirk Cousins. It's not inspiring. Wild card. No, Mike Zimmer just had the, like he literally said on Christmas Day, this is the worst defense I've ever had. I would be shocked if they did not grab a defensive player.

Mike Zimmer hated his press conferences. He would look, he would sound so miserable. So bad. Talking about his defense. this year. I always try to track like good coach quotes in August and Mike Zimmer had my favorite one

which is I've never had, I've been coaching football for 40 years. I've never had a bad defense. I don't plan on having one now. It was like August 20th and then like Christmas, like Christmas day. He's like this was the worst defense I've ever had. I hate his defense last. Do the SpongeBob meme. Three months a lot of SpongeBob memes, dude.

Trying to relate. Like hello fellow kids. I don't know. I don't know him. I've just seen him on Twitter. So anyways. It's okay. Here's something I was going to throw this out there. Kirk Cousins is a free agent after to 2022 season. So he's around for two more seasons. However, getting out of his contract after this year would not be difficult.

It's a $10 million dead cap hit. They're a wild card. More of a wild card, though. Next pick. 15th, Patriots are picking. What do we think here? Bill Simmons wants them to just sign Gardner Minshu. I mean, I like Gardner, Vinchu.

I think that would be cool. If Mac Jones is on the board, I think they take him. So, yeah, I think they didn't need a quarterback. Yeah, I could see them taking a quarterback. I think they're going to, to me, they're one of the few teams now that would definitely move up to get a quarterback. Do we talk about the Broncos? Oh, my God, we skipped the Broncos.

What am I doing here? I got so excited with the Panthers. I was like, oh my God. Wow. Okay, well, there you go. Everyone's been like listening to this and yelling at me And just like, Pryonkers are at nine between the Panthers and the Cowboys.

I don't know how I miss them. So they're the team left in the top 10 who's like, do they kind of get their pick between Trey Lance and Fields if those are the two guys that fall? This is like an awesome best, this is a best case scenario, I feel like for the Broncos, isn't it?

Like everything that's kind of transpired, at least, well, not best case because maybe they wanted Zach Wilson. But a pretty good scenario where they could have, I mean, I guess this is us as a super. assuming that Tray Lance and Johnson fields are better than Mac Jones because it's looking like Mac Jones is going to be the pick for the 49ers, which I'm, that's my analysis. So yeah, this is an awesome scenario for the Broncos.

However, it also opens up the lions, the Panthers, and potentially the dolphins to move back now because now they're going to have the opportunity for another teams might want to trade up into that spot. So maybe we see the Broncos try and trade up a few spots like outflank people. that would trade up, like the Patriots, for instance, could be a team where to trade up. And it really wouldn't take, like, all that much to move up. I'm going to go through and read you guys a few of the most recent sort of quarterback trades that give you like a realistic picture of what, like, the market would be. So back in, well, I don't know how long ago it was, the bills moved up from number 12 to 7. This was like, what, the 2018 draft?

The Josh Allen. The Josh Allen trade. Yeah. Yes. 2018. 12, they moved from. 12 to 7, they gave up two second round picks, number 53 and number 56 to swap. So like the number 12, 53, and 56 to move up to 7.

In 2018, for Josh Rosen, the Cardinals move up from 15 to 10. So this is like Patriots are at 15 right now. That is like what the Patriots are close to what they'd have to do to leapfrog Denver. And this was cheap as hell. This was a relative deal for them. They gave up third and fifth round picks only to move up five spots. But to your point, Josh Rosen,

there probably wasn't a lot of demand for Josh Rosen. Correct. And so I think that's the important point. How many people are trying to trade, how teams are trying to trade up. If it's just Denver, it might be cheap.

If it's Denver and Chicago and New England, who knows? And so, and the third one I want to mention is in 2018. So I guess that same year. No, no, sorry,

this was 2017. Chiefs move up from 27 to 10. So this was a massive jump. This was 17-pick jump. So this, This is like basically for you to picture if like maybe the Saints or, you know, one of the teams like later in the round that wants to move up and get into position to draft a quarterback. They gave up. Chiefs did.

A quarterback. It's Mahomes. Correct. For Mahomes, they moved from 27 to 10. They gave up a third rounder that year plus a 2018 first. So a future first. So a third and a future first to move up from 27 to 10. So obviously they gave up 27 to 10.

but so that yeah so that kind of tells you like if you're going to want to move up that far you're going to you're going to want to at least give up a first round pick but i think that a few of the teams like on this list have that potential to do this i think this could get wacky it's going to be fun so and really it seems like they'll have to try to leapfrob the broncos at nine and that's like suddenly the panthers who we thought might trade up maybe the panthers trade down so or they get the lions the dolphins so with that let's keep rolling here so the patriots I just feel like the Patriots trade down. The idea of the Patriots trading up, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.

If a quarterback falls to them at 15, sure. Yeah. But I don't see them. That's my gut. I don't know. I'm kind of the opposite. Really? I don't know.

The Patriots are hard to predict, but they spent all this money in free agency to, like, get their roster ready. They have a lot of, they have a lot of ammo in terms of draft picks. This is the year they could. absolutely move up five or seven spots and get a really good quarterback. I don't know. I just feel like maybe this is their plan. They have this roster that's ready to like have this rookie come in and like do well. And they don't feel like a patient team to me. Like if everything we've heard from Belichick, everything we've heard from craft is like last year was unacceptable. We don't want to go

through that shit again. Like we're so used to the 20 past years of being an excellent team. Right. Screw that. Fuck that. We're not doing. that again. So just to be clear, we all hate the Patriots here, right? Oh my gosh. How shitty would it be if Justin Fields fell to the Patriots? I would be so mad. I want Justin Fields. I'm a fan of Justin Fields, so I think that would be cool.

I think it would be awesome for him in his career. Yeah. It would be good for him. Josh McDaniels and Justin Fields like that would be an awesome offense to watch. Good for content. Exactly. It'd be a massive fuck you to the rest of the football. Seriously. Because it's like it's kind of the idea of what we thought Cam Newton would be last year, you know? Cam Newton is honestly a pretty good comp for Justin Fields, except for I think Justin Fields is like more accurate, deep than

than Cam Newton is. Cam Newton is bigger and more physical as a runner. Super merely. So they're not like, they're not like the same, but Fields, Fields is a big guy who can run and they could, they could design a lot of stuff with that offense. I don't know. It makes a lot of sense. It really makes a ton of it.

Like, like, I would be so mad. And also especially if Zach Wilson was bad and Justin Fields was immediately good. Exactly. It would be unreal. It would just be crazy. When we did the emergency pod for the 49ers trade up, Simmons was basically like,

this is my ideal scenario. Somehow we get Justin Fields. Yeah. If Sean Fennancy is listening to this podcast, I think we just gave him an aneurysm. Okay, let's keep, sorry, Sean. Let's keep rolling with the quarterbacks. Okay, so Patriots are picking 15th.

Maybe they'll do that. Cardinals are 16th. They have Kyler Mary obviously. The Raiders are 17th. They're my dark horse. Sneaky. Sneaky. Gruden has personnel ADHD. I think Josh Norris also

coined that one. He just gets bored. I don't think him and Derek, I know they live like, their houses are next to each other in Vegas or whatever. I don't care. I really think that if John Gruden

could get one of the quarterbacks he wants in this, he would. He has complete and utter autonomy in that building. He's a 10-year, $100 million-dollar contract. He's 70 million and seven years remaining.

he's 16 games under 500 since they won the Super Bowl. I think that they could make a splash. I think this would, I'm not saying it would make sense, but I can see it happening so easily. I would not be at all surprised. Yeah, that's why it would make sense because it wouldn't make sense.

Sorry. That's good. Okay, so that's 17. The dolphins are at 18. I mean, they're not. I assume no. Washington's at 19. They have Fitzpatrick.

They have a really good defense. I think they will win the NFC East. Do you guys think they had a quarterback here? What do you see happening? DK. Yeah, I like Washington as a potential trade-up team. I think they are their sneaky landing spot because, number one, they have a very good defense.

The defense is elite. I think it has a chance to be like one of the best defenses in the NFL. Yeah. So that gives you a very good foundation for as a rookie quarterback. Number one, he doesn't have to start right away either. Unless he just wowes you like in. rookie camp and in preseason and everything. But it's also a good landing spot, I think,

offensively. Like you got McLaurin. They just signed Curtis Samuel. Antonio Gibson is an up-and-coming running back. Like, there's speed on that offense. I don't know. This team feels like they're, of all these teams that we're talking about,

one quarterback away from being like a scary, good team. Yeah, I agree with you. I think that, you know, I don't think that they're going to trade up. I think that they're kind of, they're okay with having, you know, Fitzpatrick

be the bridge at 38 or 39, however old he is, you know, peaking late in his career. He's almost at AARP. I mean, him and Taylor Heineke. I mean, and they seem to tap into something with Heineke there too. So, I mean, I think that, you know, Scott Turner, all of them,

they're okay with what they have because they'll be able to generate at least enough offense. They'll be an explosive unit. It's just a matter of, again, consistency with Fitzpatrick and Heineke, whoever is behind center there. Okay.

20th pick is the Bears. They signed Andy Dalton. I don't think that means they wouldn't draft a quarterback, right? Right, right. D.K. This is the discussion. This is the question of what does a lame duck, GM, and head coach, what effect does that have on a franchise? Yeah.

Is this the situation where it's terrible, well, not always, but it could be a terrible spot for a franchise because you got these, you got a head coach and a GM who are like desperate to save their jobs and show some, growth and show some improvement and show that they're building something very special. And are you going to do that with Andy Dalton? So you know, that's a rhetorical question, by the way. You know those cycles? Like there's like the graphic of like a butterfly life cycle and it's like you see the stages. There's like a life cycle to being a GM of an NFL team. And toward the end of a life cycle, there's just the we start doing reckless shit because it's not

my money. And if I get fired, who cares about I miss these draft picks? like the Giants, for example, the old GM, Jerry Reese was going to get fired. So he's like, oh, I'll spend a bunch of money in free agency and hope it works, work for one season, they collapsed. The Jets did the same thing. Mike McHagnan spent at the time the most guaranteed money ever didn't work. Levy on Bell, he got fired.

Who cares? It's not his money. The bears are like at that spot of like, even if it made sense, would you let a GM who maybe, maybe we're going to fire this year. Would you let him trade up for a quarterback, Kaelan? I absolutely would not. Hell no. Like, you know, like,

you're, the decision for him to go, for them to go after Andy Dalton, when they missed out on Russell Wilson or whatever happened with that, you know, you're kind of stuck. And especially the fact that it's always going to hang over

their heads, fair or not, that they missed out on both the Sean Watson and Patrick Holmes. And they chose Mitchell Chibisky. They're another team with a good defense that, in theory,

has a foundation for a young quarterback come in and succeed. So they feel like, You guys are talking me into this. I feel like the bears are definitely trading up now. Because they're desperate to save their jobs. Well, and it might be, honestly,

it might be the right move for them to do that, too. Okay. Let's keep rolling here. Colts are at 21. They just traded for wins. They don't need a quarterback. No. Titans are at 22.

They have Ryan Tanna. Hell, you don't think they would get a quarterback, do you? Anyone here? No. Maybe not in the first round. Maybe not in the first round, but. We just say he's elite.

We know, wants to say that he's not cool enough to be like you know the cover of you know website but like he's the elite okay jets are 23 they'll take one earlier in the draft steelers are at 24 ben rothusberger is slower than smell dk do you think the steelers would actually trade up yeah i do think they would in fact because i mean if you look back a couple years ago they traded up for a linebacker and they traded i think from 20 to 10 to get devon bush that's a pretty aggressive move regardless of who you're going for and they were doing it for a linebacker. Like, imagine what

you could do for a quarterback. I guess the only question I have is are they 100% convinced Mason Rudolph is not the guy? You know, they've seemed to almost go out of their way to not find like a good backup for Ben. I know that they signed they signed Duane Haskins, but that

doesn't feel like a high probability move at this point. It's more like a flyer. So they haven't been aggressive in getting like a good backup for Ben Rothesberger. Are you computing duck Hodges? I would never. I would never do that.

But it does seem to me a little bit like they like Mason Rudolph. That's kind of my point. However, you know, they strike me as a team who they probably have the ability to move up, 10 or 15 spots to get a quarterback. And they absolutely are like a team that has that landing spot ready for a quarterback. Kaelin, the Steelers have had three head coaches since Richard Dixon was president. Like, do you see them doing something rat? That's that blows my mind

I don't think they'll trade up I mean like they could I could see it happening but I think they've done a good job of mining those mid round prospects and you know kind of rolling they're gonna roll with Ben Rothensberger and I know we again RIP to that pod we did earlier all the the gushing guy did over Kellynmond

I mean the steel is literally met with Kelimmon and during his pro day press conference actually you mentioned how good talks that he had with the team. And so I wouldn't be shocked at all if you see them take like a second round fire on him.

Yeah. That would make a lot of sense. Yeah. The last three teams we all just discussed, Washington, Chicago, and Pittsburgh, I could all see them taking his second round quarterback. So Kellamon from A&M,

Kyle Tras from Florida, and the Stanford kid, who I just always confused for a serial company. Davis Mills? Yep. It's just sound like a serial company. I don't know.

So anyway, I haven't admitted that today one yet, but I think of it every time. I feel like those are second round quarterbacks second round teams that'll find second round homes that makes sense yeah okay let's keep shurning here jaguars are 25 they'll take lawrence the browns are 26 they have baker raven i mean stop me if you disagree with any of these but the ravens are 27 right lamar the saints are at 28

the saints are the real wild card like every year like the saints like run their budget and in every scenario in new orleans fashion like it is just unpredictable like anything's possible You can drink in the street there. It's legal for some reason. No one knows why, but it's different there. The Saints are a different team. You can get alcohol in to go in Go cups. Like you can get a new drive-through.

I love it. It's unbelievable. So, Kaelin, they have Taysam Hill. They have James Winston. Do you think that they would actually trade up? Because I kind of see it. I'm curious what you think. I could see it happening.

Again, you know, I feel like I'm copying out with all of these. But I could see it happening. Because, again, we don't know what's, predictable with the Saints in the draft. And again, to your point, they have James Winston and Taysam Hill who haven't really solidified either standing as a starting quarterback in the NFL.

So that's with Sean Payton and as aggressive as Mickey Wimbus and Aldemar, wouldn't shock me at all. Well, they're another team that has a precedent, has history of trading up in the first round, like making a massive jump. Bracklessly. How, Hyphids, do you remember

how far they moved up? It was far. I believe that was, they had the 19th pick and to move to 12, they gave up a future first rounder to move from 19 to 12, I believe, to get Marcus Davenport, who's fine. And then the Packers went back to 19, got Jire Alexander's cornerback from Louisville.

He's like way better than Marcus Davenport is. And they got a first rounder to get a way better player. So like this, that's what the Saints gave up. But they don't care. The Saints manage their cap the way they trade away picks. It's all about this year. It's all about winning a Super Bowl this year

because they always have a weird way that they lose in the playoffs. They always think they're like the best team in the league. And they always just want to just run it back for this year. They borrow from the future to have fun today. Which isn't that what people say about drinking? You're robbing tomorrow's happiness to have fun today. Like they literally operate like they're drinking. That's like the idea.

Bourbon Street, baby. And here's the thing with Sean Payton. He said to Albert Breer at MMQB this week about the quarterback situation. None of this is laminated. Laminated is an interesting word. Jot it down on a piece of paper. Just sounds like a guy who looks at a lot of lamnative. I think the Saints are moving up.

I think all these teams are talking about are moving up. The Raiders are the real dark course. I think the Saints are number two. Okay, let's keep rolling. I think the Saints are did it. The Packers of Rogers. Well, they already did that one. And Jordan Love.

Yeah. Who is Jordan Love? It was a Jeopardy Joe. Okay. Bills of Josh Allen. They're happy. Chiefs of Mahomes. They're happy.

Ooh. Here we go. What do we think? What the bucks have to quarterback? this is, this is, so the Packers last year were an out of left field team to trade up and take a quarterback. The Buccaneers, if there's going to be a Packer, a quote Packers team this year, it's the Buccaneers because no one is expecting it. And it's a very good way to piss off your starting quarterback, your incumbent. Like if the Buccaneers took a quarterback, Brady would probably

not be very happy about that. He'd be pissed in the same. Yeah, I was underselling it. Yeah, he'd be pissed. I know you were underselling it. And it's same deal. with like the Packers and they apparently gave no shits that they were going to piss off their quarterback you know what I mean and he like went out and wanted MVP in spite or to spite them or whatever well also to like help himself but also to spite the Packers I could see Brady they're going to take a quarterback just to motivate Brady into winning MVP next year. Wait Kaelan do you think they would piss off Brady like obviously Brady would be pissed

do that hell yeah they wouldn't care I mean he's 43 years old old. He's 43 years old. He's 43 years old. He is 43 years old. He is 43 years old. He is 43 years old. They gave him a contract extension. You're going to make him mad. This year. If you piss him off this year, he might win and then he might say goodbye. And then you have your starting quarterback for the future. That's patch drafted Garoppolo. He was apparently mad about it. Like he didn't want to be replaced. He goes to Tampa. They're like, we love you. You can play for us forever. I cannot imagine like they just won a Super Bowl. I wouldn't compare this to the Packers because the Packers when you lose, the close to you. The closer you. You. get to the finish line and you lose, the more devastating it is. But when you win, there's like this emotional inebriation, along with Brady on the boat, a lot of actual inebriation, speaking of bourbon. But was it, avocado tequila, was the joke?

Either way, the Bucs are emotionally, like, you can't give up on him. Like, usually when a team wins a Super Bowl, the head coach is like, you know, what a team effort. Like, everyone on the team did it. The Bucks won the Super Bowl, and Bruce Sarians is like, Tom Brady, who's all Tom? Like, Tom turned the team around. Like, I've never heard a team. Any sport, win a championship and they're like, team was great,

but it was mostly that one player. Like, I've never heard that. I cannot imagine that they would piss him off. No, that's just a verbin speaking. That's just a bourbon speaking. And so that's the other thing, too. Like, I actually spoke with, like, with Lvante David for a story I'm writing,

like, that's coming up. And we talked about, like, the culture. And starting a line back in casting, right? And look, yeah, exactly. So I asked him, I asked him a real question. I'm like, look it. So Tom Brady gets all the credit for what, you know, the defense was already great before Tom Brady stepped here.

The offense had all these weapons before Tom Brady stepped in. And, you know, I asked him, I'm like, so what is that kind of like for you guys? You guys feel under rain? It's like, yeah, a little bit, but it's a team effort. And, you know, he played it cool, gave me the nice answer. But look it, the bucks had everything in place. Tom Brady stepped in and did what he was supposed to do. And honestly, during the playoffs, there were points where the defense and his, definitely his teammates rescued him.

But he also gave them the belief. And I know it's cliche. them the belief. I agree with that. I agree with that. Levanti David actually told the story where like, because there's like this, now I think it will become like a legend where the NFC championship game they won and

one of the younger Bucks receivers is crying at his locker because it's just joy that they went to the Super Bowl. And apparently Brady walks in and says, what the fuck are you crying about? We have another game left. And Levanti David like confirms the story and it's like, I wiped a tear from my own eye because I was crying too and I'm like, yeah, yeah, we got a game left.

like it's the effect he had. Even Devin White, the other linebacker for the Bucks told the story where he told Tom Brady he was Maddie to make the Pro Bowl and Brady laughed was like there's only one bowl I care about it's not the Pro Bowl and it's like you need that you need that influence I cannot imagine they would piss him off at draft a quarterback

they piss them off. I don't think they're going to I don't think they're really going to do it but if there's a left field team to do it it's the Buccaneers I don't think they will anyway okay you know the one team

we haven't discussed because they don't have a first-run pick and we're not on this list is the Seattle Seahawks D.K. God damn. While we're talking,

I knew you were going to say that. Who could be the next Packers who could piss off their quarterback. If we're actually talking about the next Packer situation where you have a great MVP caliber quarterback who's won a Super Bowl and his young enough to keep going

and has a big contract, but wow, they drafted a young guy. It's the Seahawks. And I'll admit, they only have three picks this year. I'm like, they don't have picked a little.

Yeah. Like, the Jets have seven picks or six picks in the top 107. The Seahawks have one. But that doesn't mean they couldn't trade up to the second round and take one of those Kellyn Mond or Davis Mills, a serial guy or Carl Trask. So.

Serial guy. Yeah. If you're the Seahawks, why wouldn't you take a quarterback if Russell Wilson's claiming to one out at Seattle or at least passive aggressively asking out? Well, number one, you don't have very much draft capital.

And if you want to make it count for this. this year, it probably makes sense to not choose a quarterback. However, I do think you may be onto something in the sense that, like, the Seahawks made up with Russell Wilson, or at least it seems on the surface that, like, things are kind of smoothed over, but that doesn't necessarily mean that's for good or for like the long term. It's for this year. And Adam Schaefter has been careful,

and he's said this multiple times lately, that he's still not 100% bought into the idea that Russell Wilson is the Seahawks starter this year, which I think is, it's kind of wacky. But Schaefter doesn't just say shit to say shit. You know what I mean? He's the kind of guy. He's to know about the Niners trade weeks ahead.

Yeah. So, oh, God. He could just be messing with me, oh, man. I know, just basically, like, April Fool's, like, extended joke or something, but I don't know. He seems to be, like, less than convinced this is over. And so, I don't know. This is one of those situations you have to monitor.

But yes, to your point, they could be in the market for a quarterback. I don't think it makes sense because, number one, they can't take a guy. the first round. Number two, you only have three picks. Are you really going to take a court, like a flyer on a maybe going to be a quarterback like down the line type of guy? Like that doesn't feel like the best use of your resources at least this year. And I mean, Pete Carroll's not getting any younger, man. They want to go for a championship this season. So I don't know. Life's in your years or years in your life, not life in years. Oh, other way around.

Kaelin, I just put a knife and D.K.'s back. Do you want to twist it and say they'll get a quarterback? Or you going to pull it out? disagree with me. No, I'll be nice. I could say yes. I could see them trading up, but no, they won't. Also, I guess pulling the knife, that's not what you're supposed to go if you get stabbed. You got to leave the knife in and go to the hospital. Wouldn't that like make it worse? Go get that checked out. Let the surgeon. Yeah, you got to just, you can't actually touch it. Just don't twist it. Yeah. Don't twist. Don't twist. That's, I've heard that's awful. Okay. That's all we got. Thank you, D.K. Thank you, Kaelin. Thank you in advance to the Seahawks,

because that'll be great content. And thank you to Davis Mills, the serial guy, Air to the serial fortune. Okay. And thank you to Isaiah producing this episode. And again, million retweets and we will release

the Snyder Cut Pod from early today.