The Ringer NFL Show - Saturday Division-Round Recap

Episode Date: January 23, 2022

Kevin, Nora, and Steven begin the pod by giving some love to the 49ers' defense, who held the Packers to only 10 points and earned their team a trip to the NFC championship game. They grade Jimmy Garoppolo's performance (7:12) and discuss how the results of the matchup will affect both teams' franchises moving forward (15:30). They then pivot to the Bengals win over the Titans (18:00) and talk about Joe Burrow fending off a brutal nine-sack onslaught to lead Cincinnati to the next round of the playoffs while also detailing how the outcome could be devastating for Tennessee's 2022 season. (29:02) Finally, they wrap everything up by dissecting Aaron Rodgers postgame comments and what they may be signaling about his future in Green Bay. (37:53) Hosts: Kevin Clark, Nora Princiotti, and Steven Ruiz Producer: Arjuna Ramgopal Production Assistant: Chris Sutton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let's help everybody. I'm JJ John Gistramski. And I'm Jason Gough, and if you haven't heard, the ringer has gone local. I'm bringing the fire. I'm bringing the rain from the Big Apple with my show, New York, New York. And I'm reping Shy Town with my new show The Full Go on All Things Chicago. We've got episodes three nights a week with all the reaction to the local teams and guests. Plus bonus episodes around all the big games and storylines.

So whether you're uptown, downtown, downtown, in the burbs, or a transplant. Make sure you follow New York, New York, and the full go on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. It is the ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Kevin Clark joined on a playoff Saturday by Nora Prince. I do, what's going on? We go now to the field where we're joined by game-winning San Francisco 49ers quarterback, Jimmy Garoppolo. We're also joined by Stephen Ruiz, and the reason Nora says this is because Stephen is very upset that Jimmy Garapolo was the post-game interview with Tom Rinaldi. If I was doing a ranking of the top 10 49ers, people that should get interviewed before Jimmy, like you would have.

at least two assistant coaches on there. A fan in the stands who braved the cold to watch that nonsense. Debo Samuel would be on there twice. Packers special teams coach, Marie Straiton, if we're divvying up responsibility. Did you see, by the way, that this just came out?

There were only 10 guys on the snap for the field goal. He wanted to leave one last Easter egg for the off season. He's like the riddler. Christopher Nolan of bad special teams play. You can just go back and just find different things. He's done over the course of the year. It's a layered performance. They fired their special teams coach last year, too.

So there'll be a new one. Okay, so we obviously, we'll start with that game. It's Niners 13, Packers 10. This was stunning even in the context of the game. I mean, Jimmy Rapo did not play well. Packers' offense did not help itself. Packers special teams is obviously to blame, but there's a lot, a lot of blame to go around.

Nora, where do you start? Well, okay, Jimmy did not play well, but I will give him credit for this. Only one of the seven interceptions he attempted to throw was actually intercepted. And you got to, there's something to be said for that. Where you start is that I'm really happy for the Niners defense that they actually got a win out of this because, holy smokes, did they deserve it? I mean, just from the game planning to the execution, an absolutely marvelous thing. to watch. Yes. Stephen, if there's one kind of scheme thing that you noticed tonight, what was it? Honestly, it's been amazing watching their defense over like the last month, just how well they play

zone defense. They play it so well and they're so coordinated that it's almost, it almost plays out like, man. At one point, it was almost 90% zone they were throwing it at Rogers. And I mean, you might wonder how smart of a strategy that is against a team that has Devante Adams, because sometimes you end up with Devante Adams on a linebacker, but I like the strategy of, you know, of letting Devante cook and just making sure nobody else beat them. I think that's a, it worked out in the end. I think he was the only receiver that caught a pass. I might be wrong about that.

Lazard had that one late, but it was the other, it was the only other one. Yeah, so I don't know. Damika Ryans has just been super impressive. I mean, if Brandon Staley gets a job after one, one season, I don't see how Ryans doesn't. And if, if Josh McCown gets an interview and maybe a job off of being friends to Jack Easterby, maybe you should look at the all pro who used to play for your franchise who's now coordinating one of the best defense in football just a thought just a thought

i know the texans want to do things differently but maybe you want to go with that guy um was there anything that stood out to you but the packer stephen and why i'm like throwing zone at erin rogers is it we're not going to do the whole like you know thing with mahon was where it's like oh just put two safeties back there like obviously teams have thrown zone at rogers before what was wrong with erin rogers tonight i don't know do you think there was something wrong with it i think it was just the 49ers pass for us that in the second half you saw him start to drop his eyes. It's something you didn't see for even like the last two seasons. But at the end of the Mike McCarthy era, it was something that happened a lot. And maybe he wasn't trusting receivers to

get open. I don't know. But I thought he started to feel the rush a little bit. And Nick Bosa, it seems like every big game, he just dominates and takes over. And this was another example of that. Nora, what's just doing on his 49th? Shoot. So we should talk about the injuries because unfortunately, it felt a little bit like they put everything they had into this. And we saw Kittle get banged up. We saw Debo Samuel hop off the field in what we were talking about this offline. The way that Debo hopped on one foot was like the most impressive athletic feet. I think I saw all day.

Like he didn't usually if somebody does that, they're using their other foot for balance. Like one foot is weight bearing, but the other one at least is like a kick. stand. I don't think his other foot was, he was just a pogo stick. The man is incredible. I'm a little concerned if Jimmy Gropolo's got to go win them the NFC championship game. I'll put it that way. You're a little concerned if the last healthy person is Jimmy Grofo. Yeah, last man standing Jimmy G. He's very handsome. We can give him that. Were you surprised Stephen didn't even attempt to go with a Trey Lance package? Yeah, I really thought we would see one. I thought this was the week we would see one. The Packers defense has given up the most scramble yards in the entire league. They've given up the most

Scrambles in general. And by the end there, it didn't feel like they were ever going to be able to move the ball passing it. And I thought Lance Scrambles would give them a better chance of moving the ball than Jimmy dropping back and trying to find receivers and get them to the ball. And it would have been a lot less risky. Even like on the fourth down, why not put him in there and at least run some type of read option or just have them as a decoy?

It made no sense not to put him out there. And I'm surprised that they haven't done it. but in what feels like a couple months outside of his starts. Same question I asked, Nora, like, can this Niners team, as currently constructed, let's assume everyone's going to remain healthy. We might get updates as the pod goes on, but let's assume those guys are going to play. Can this team win two more games? Yeah, I do think they can.

We just saw Jimmy play a terrible game and they beat the MVP on the road, the best team in the NFC. I don't think he's going to, Jimmy's not this bad. Like, this example is not, that's not what the baseline performance for Jimmy G. So I think we'll get better performances. Okay. Are we sure he's not this bad? I mean, just like the pick where he just waited on it and waited on it.

Like that's Jimmy G. Like he's not going to play this badly all the time. But some of his worst plays were plays where if you took the name and just made him a shadow, took the name off and made him a shadow and said, who is this? You'd say that's Jimmy Garoppolo. This was some Jimmy G stuff now. No, no, I agree with that. But I think that Kyle and the running game are going to be able to hide him better in future games.

Yeah, I agree with you. Like these are the typical Jimmy mistakes. We just saw a lot more of them, but the Packers weren't able to capitalize. So we saw a lot more of them. And then they also came in incredibly high leverage situations, right? Like all of those sacks were coming on third down. The interception in the red zone, the penalties in the red zone. Jimmy could actually have an equal number of mistakes and have them more evenly dispersed on less high leverage downs and situations.

and he probably ends up with a slightly more productive night. I think the defense is good enough to survive another Jimmy Stinker. When you have a pass rush like that and you have a secondary and linebacker court that is so coordinated. Like Fred Warner is one of the two or three best players defenders in football. I think you have a chance to beat anyone. Like we go two years ago in the Super Bowl. What they did to Patrick Mahomes, I think they could do that to any quarterback remaining in the playoffs.

Interesting. Okay. I want to get big picture. to what this result means for both franchises because this is monumental for both of them in the biggest 35,000 foot cents you can possibly imagine. But I also want to get to what this means for tomorrow. Nora, if you were the Niners, would you rather play the Bucks or the Ramps? I think I would rather play the Bucks, honestly, because I just think that the injury situation

in Tampa has crossed a little bit of a threshold. And I'm surprised that I feel that way, just because of the quarterback situation. But I do think that they are built in a way where if you're going up against a great quarterback, like Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady, at least they can count on trying to control time of possession. And I just, I see Tampa as a little bit of a wounded duck right now. Now they could come out tomorrow and I could look totally silly for saying this. But I just think that the Rams, it's more did they have self-inflicted issues. And I just don't see Tampa at full strength. So I think you go for that. Garapolo and Stafford in the NFC championship game, just each trying to throw a pick six would just be stunning. Like that would be America's... The ratings for championship games are massive. Like 50 million people.

So there's going to be like 20 million people who normally don't watch games who are tuning in and saying, these are the two best quarterbacks in the conference. That's what I want. They would give Nickelode in another game. Jimmy Gn MVP for the championship game. Wait, can Stephen answer that too? Because I think that I, like, it's...

I think my answer is weird, but that's how I feel in my soul. I agree with you. If I'm in the 49ers, I'd rather play the Bucks offense, but I'd rather play the Rams defense, if that makes sense. Like, you look at Kyle Shannon. Cool, do you have any more non-ansors? I'm going to take the Rams. And you'd also like to play the Packer Special Team.

Right, right. Hey, Kevin, don't get too frisky. We're talking Bengals Titans next. I love that game. All my takes were good. I almost tweeted out a video of you guaranteeing the Titans winning their first playoff game. And me and Nora guaranteeing you and them not. I thought it was going to be against the Patriots.

That was the problem with that particular. or take from three weeks ago. But no, I would take the Rams. Just look at the 49ers' recent history against the Rams. Even when they've been the worst team, like Kyle Shannon seems to have that defense's numbers. So I don't know. I think the Rams are going to win,

but I would rather play them if I'm the 49ers. Okay. So I want to get into, as I said, what this means for both franchises. And there's an obvious place to start, and that's the future of Aaron Rogers. We'll probably get some Aaron Rogers quotes as this podcast goes on, but Nora want to start with you.

you what changes. We have to wait to see what he says because he's been on this press store basically saying, I'm as happy as I've ever been. This was the greatest, you know, football year of my career. I've never had more fun doing it. Maybe it's maybe it's the end of a chapter, but maybe it's the beginning of a new one. And I don't know if some of that is sort of performative. Everything's fine over here attitude stuff or not.

but I think we will get a clue when we see how he reacts to being knocked out of the playoffs and in their first game as the number one seed. I really, I don't mean to cop out of an answer here. I just don't think that I think I'm done predicting Aaron Rogers' behavior. It was interesting, Stephen, because there were some real bright spots of the Packers tonight. Like, Roshan Gary was a legitimate star tonight. Like when you look at that roster, you go, okay, wait, this team can conceivably, if they had mediocre special teams and, you know, obviously the Niners defense did their job,

Like, you play this game 100 times. The backers do pretty well in most of them. You come away kind of big picture thinking what about this franchise. You were getting dangerously close to a process over results take right there. Yeah, I don't believe in results anymore. I don't believe in wins after the Titans lost today. Okay? I was Mr. Wins, and now Joe Burrow went in there and beat the Wins team,

and now I don't believe in wins anymore. I'm a process guy. I've been asking this question for the last two months. Like, where is Rogers going to go where it's going to be better? I can't think of a team off the top of my head where it's going to be better. And I'm assuming Rogers wants some input on shaping the roster in his next stop, or maybe it's Green Bay. And if you're picking a team that's already ready made to win,

how much opportunity are you going to have to shape the roster? But what does that mean? Does he just want to add like Randall Cobb to the Steelers? Yes. It's just Randall Cobb. It's not that complicated. That's the problem. Like when Brady goes to another team and brings his friends,

it's like Gronk and AB who's kind of weird, but good. And then when it's Rogers, it's Randall Cobb and Jake Coomberow? And like Miles Teller. Like, this is my crew. Let's go win his Super Bowl. Are you saying that the new team must assign Miles Teller?

He has to be involved somehow. Like a team ambassador. By the way, Jake Cummerer is still on the bills. Yeah. So Rogers was right. He's a winner. He's still playing. Maybe Rogers should go to Buffalo,

back up Josh Allen and get his second ring. Got a better chance. He didn't target anybody besides Devon Day Adams until late in the game out of protest for not being able to throw to Jake Gumer. I think this result is a nightmare for the backers. I mean, they did everything right all season long, and now we're right back to where we were right back.

And that's why when we did the Stakes episode on Wednesday, I said Brian Gouldenkins had the absolute most at stake in this game because people, the media, all the stuff, fans were going to say there are other places Rogers can go that would be better. And I don't know what those are. Like we are looking this rationally and saying if Rogers was a free agent, the best place for him to go would be Green Bay. but that's not really how a scorned quarterback works. That's not really how the take cycle works.

This is not a rational choice. Like if he wants to leave, he will leave. And we'll say, okay, we'll rank those. We'll rank those, you know, and we'll say, okay, well, this, you know, like, I don't think when Peyton Manning left in 2012, I don't think the Broncos were seen as the best fit. I think people say like Arizona was the best fit. Titans were going to give him some ownership stake and then that was maybe illegal.

I don't really, it was a weird time. Those sort of things don't work rationally. And so I think that the roster building question will be huge in the next couple of weeks and months. And Brian Goons can become the fall guy for that if Rogers decides, I'm not playing another down to the Packers. Or if he might retire, by the way. I mean, who knows? So what do you think happens? Do you think he plays for the Packers next year?

We have to see the comments. I would say this. Devante getting to free agency was realistic. I think he would leave and bring Devante with him. But I don't think it's realistic. I think that he's going to get tagged and the Packers aren't going to let him leave. You know, if I were ranking, I'm for handicapping this, Nora, I would say that the most likely option is the exact same thing that happened last year

happens this year. Even though they said, we'll try to accommodate you. They'll just probably just keep trying to talk him into staying. Remember that was the whole thing when he signed his, or come to an agreement like we're going to evaluate your situation after next year. That doesn't mean necessarily they have to trade him if he asks unless there's some super secret deal we don't know about. They said they were in value the situation.

Cool, the Packers evaluated a situation. They probably decided that Aaron Rodgers should stay. There is a ton of inherent logic to that. This is a quarterback who was like showing his feet on Zoom a couple months ago. Like, I'm out of the prediction game with this one. Quarterbacks being weird is good. Oh, I'm in full support of most of it. My prediction is he's on a podcast for the Super Bowl.

Full time? No, no. He's just a guest on a podcast. Oh, but we're not putting Aaron Rogers on podcast or watch, are we? I mean, we might. Can we throw out a few? feeler and try to get them on this podcast? Sure. You want to be the point man for that? 100%. I think I would end up getting fired. You would get fired for asking or having them on?

If I was the host of the podcast that featured Aaron Rogers. Good point. All right. So for the Niners, this whole playoff run is amazing for them because a couple of weeks ago, months ago, certainly, there was talk that Kyle Shanahan was not a good personnel guy. He was hurting the franchise. It's been an incredible turnaround. This win and this run and being in the United States of championed game where they were two years ago means what nor to this franchise. I think it really validates Shanahan, just because this is a team that has some really, really incredible players and some players that, you know, there's nobody like Depot Samuel on another NFL roster, right?

But it's also not a team without clear weaknesses in the secondary, at quarterback. Sorry, Jimmy. Again, very handsome. And I think because of the conversation that we had around Shanahan, hand earlier in the season and, you know, his record as their head coach was brought up a lot and the personnel stuff that you mentioned was brought up a lot. I think for them to make another deep playoff run and particularly one where, okay, we're having this conversation about is he in Lafleur's head?

We might be about to have that again with McVeigh. And I think it sort of solidifies the fact that he is one of the elite head. coaches. Now, I think having completely gone away from that viewpoint was a little silly, if that had happened for people. But I do think that it's a real big deal for Shanahan. By the way, Matt O'Fleur is on Team Ruiz. He said, quote, I think Aaron did everything he could. He was under a lot of duress. Aaron Rogers, innocent, according to Matt Lerflare me, LaFleur, put me on the staff. He scored 10 points. I mean, I think this is like best case scenario for the 49ers. Like if they make a deep run in the playoffs, I mean, they've already made the deep run.

Trading Jimmy becomes easier, I feel like. Owners aren't watching these games. They didn't watch this game. They don't know that Jimmy's stunk it up. They just know he won in Lambo and he beat Aaron Rogers on the road. I think you can, you could sell Jimmy, package him, get some of those picks back that he traded for Lance and then start over next year. It becomes harder to do if you win the Super Bowl with Jimmy, but one, I don't think they're going to win the Super Bowl. Two, like we used our eyes. We watched the games. Like, we know that Jimmy's not the reason to going to win. Yeah, the deeper of a run they make, the more opportunities Jimmy's going to have to just like do some stuff where they can be like, all right, thank you very much.

Like if they win two more games like this, two more games like this, perfect. We're going to keep an eye on the Roger stuff. And if Rogers talks by the end of this podcast, we'll have a full breakdown of what that looks like. So let's move on to Bengals 19, Titan 16. Bengals move on to the ASC championship game. Stephen, you said this before the podcast started recording. And he said both games were bad football in the best possible way. And I think that's a really good way to describe it. This was certainly that your first takeaway. My first takeaway is I hate doing this because they just won and he's won two playoff

games now. But Zach Taylor, I'm still terrified of him being in control of Joe Burroughs career. Like if you didn't see Andrew Luck today when you were watching that game, I don't know what to tell you. That's what it felt like. And it wasn't just a bad offensive line. It was play calling. They only had more than five protectors on nine of,

46 dropbacks. When you have a bad offensive line, keep a back in the block, keep a tight end in the block. They didn't do that at all. And you saw what happened. I don't know. I'm worried about Joe Burrow. A couple of stats. Number one, obviously, the sack number was insane. Sacked nine times, and I think that tied a playoff record, all-time playoff record. Obviously, Joe Burrow was sacked most times for any quarterback. One of the playoffs goes without saying. When Harold Landry sacked him, it was in 2.6 seconds, which was was the fastest sack bros ever taken in his career. He was getting teed off on.

This was brutal. And it was funny because, or not funny, funny is the wrong word. But he basically said after the game, he felt fine. Tomorrow was another story. He was running on adrenaline at this point. He might be more, he might have more bruises than we know about at this point. This was a brutal game. Having said that, I'm going to pivot away because I'm not a huge Zach Taylor fan.

We talked about this last week in the pod. But I'm going to say something nice about the Bengals, which was this is an amazing run for them. And it just shows you, there's. So many quarterbacks who we say are culture changers or, hey, they don't have enough help. And Joe Burrow went out and created a culture in really, I mean, a year and a half when you consider that he was out with a knee injury for, what, 11 months of it, 10 months of it. Like, he was out. He couldn't even be on the field for long stretches of it. Like, what he's done is amazing.

Zach Taylor is allowed that to happen. So props to him. Duke Tobin, I saw the point today that basically, you know, any Zach Taylor hype is actually should just be Duke Tobin hype because he's, you know, He built a really good team, a really good team with a nasty defense that's able to go into Tennessee and win this kind of game. Nora, your first takeaway. Yeah, we need to give Duke Chob and some credit here because so many guys, and it's not just Joe Burrow and it's not just Chase, obviously that's that's 1A1B and he gets credit there. But guys like Eli Apple, I mean, Hendrickson, he, so many acquisitions for them made an impact in this. and, you know, Duke Tobin's kind of a low-key guy.

Like, he doesn't have the title. People don't talk about him that much. But it's a really, really, really impressive personnel job that deserves a lot of credit. I am with Stephen on the coaching. Did Zach Taylor miss Quick Game Day in football school? I do not understand why they don't have quicker triggers. Some of them are on birth.

Yeah, but it is completely absent from their repertoire. I also think, like, this is the worst case in there. You have a bad offensive line. You have a quarterback who tends to hold. hold onto the ball a long time. And holding onto the ball is what makes him as good as he is because he creates under pressure. And then you have a coach who just, I don't know what he brings to the table. It's certainly not protecting his quarterback. Today, it just felt like Burrow was playing on like on All Madden difficulty all day because of Zach Taylor's play calling. It was like when we

get to third down, we're just going to put it all on you. You figured out before the snap, even though the Titans are throwing all these weird blitzes at you, I'm not going to help you with protection. on you to figure things out. And he's a second year player. Like, there's so much stress to put on the player. And they've been doing it all season long when you watch their tape. It's like, all right, first and second down, Zach Taylor does his thing.

And then on third down, Joe, please save us and bail us out. And then most of the time this year he did. He didn't do it much today, but he did it when it mattered. And I don't know if that's going to work next week. Okay. So there's a couple of plays I want to go through. Number one, before one of the mixing touchdowns, the scramble on third and five from Borough,

where he lunged for the first down, showed so much about the kind of guy he is. First of all, I think the broadcast made a note of it. Even just him scrambling like that in traffic, what, 13 months after knee surgery is important? But also, he just has this confidence and he can move, and I think that's something that probably gets overlooked at this point. But he's the kind of guy who, there's a reason he's able to make these playoff runs.

It's because he does whatever it takes. He got the crap knocked out of him. Jeffrey Simmons was an absolute beast today. I think three sacks by himself. I also want to talk about the Mike Hilton interception. I kind of feel like if I were a quarterback and was put in an NFL game, I would throw interceptions like the ones that Mike Hilton got where you're just trying to throw an easy screen and you end up just throwing it right to a guy, right?

But that was an incredibly impressive play by Mike Hilton. Yeah, but it was a terrible. It was a throw that you would bake, like you said. It was an awful throw, but it was kind of athletic. Oh, yeah. It was an awesome play. Like the Bengals have players. And like you said, Duke Tobin.

deserves a lot of credit. It's not like he has a lot of front office resources. He has like three scouts, like a PFF subscription, like a TI-83 maybe. No, no. I don't know if they have subscription. They're just like they're near the PFF offices. They probably just walk over. They still PFF's Wi-Fi to log in.

Yeah, they still their Wi-Fi. Mike Hilton also made the tackle that set up that sequence. I mean, but that's all Duke Tobin. I mean, this defense, this was not a lot of big ticket items there. With the exception, Troy Henderson, and DJ Reeder is an amazing contributor. Like, this is a really, really, really good team. I want to ask the same question I asked in the first part,

which is if you're Cincinnati, do you want to see Kansas City or Buffalo? Nora. So, gosh, both I think are scary because both the bill's defense is sort of more balanced, but both have past rushing units that I think can cause real problems. My mind is in a vice right now where I think it's silly. to come off of my Chief's pick for tomorrow, but I really, really, really want to just completely buy into the bills. Like, I'm just so desperate to do it.

And I think how fresh those guys' legs are because of how much they rotate their front seven is really, really, really something that's nice to have at this point in the year. Every fiber of my being wants to say, Buffalo. I'll at least put it that way. Stephen? I think the bills. I don't know.

It's so hard. Can I do the same thing where I say that the Chief's defense and the Bills offense? I'd be surprised if you answered a question at this point. No, no, I'd rather play the Bills. And I think it's because Patrick Mahomes is on the other team and also because Chris Jones is on the other team and interior pressure is harder to deal with for Borrow than edge rushers. So I'll go with the, I'll go with the bills.

So when you talk about the legend, it is Evan McPherson, University of Florida kicker drafted last year. So he hit the 52-yarder. And before he did it, he went up to backup quarterback Brandon Allen and said, well, looks like we're going to the AFC championship game. I was thinking about this the other day because I have stupid thoughts in my head. I feel like kickers used to be more famous. Like I remember going to games in the 90s and like people had kicker jerseys. Like Mark Hollis jerseys.

Like people were into kickers back then. Like Martine Gramatica, people were into grammatica. Like no one likes kickers anymore. is Evan McPherson on track to be the most famous kicker Nora? What? You're the Justin Tucker guy. Justin Tucker was on 60 Minutes. They discovered him for the first time, like 10 years into his career.

Yeah, but also like Justin Tucker, sorry, Justin Tucker like doesn't give bomb quotes like that. What Justin Tucker does? He can't be like the-d dances. You guys are- He does opera? Slander. No, Justin Tucker is amazing. But the Bengals kicker guaranteed a championship game. Like Evan McPherson sounds like LeVar Ball.

Justin Tucker would have said the same thing before the kid. No, he wouldn't. He would have done that, and he would have danced while the ball was still in the air. No, he wouldn't have said anything because he's a professional. What are you saying about Evan McPherson? Ooh, bulletin board for Ev. I can't believe his name is Evan. Cool kickers are good, though.

I like cool kickers. Quentin Spain, after a performance of which the offensive line gave up nine, he plays guard for the Bengals. The offensive line gave up nine sacks, and Quinn's trash talk Jeffrey Simmons after the game. said some really nasty stuff. And then I saw video as well on somebody's Instagram from the bangles of them also trash talking Jeffrey Simmons.

Nora, do you support getting raskekek by Jeffrey Simmons and then trash talking after the game? Because you won? Yes. I do too. I do too. You got the W. It's fine.

That is the correct application of outcome over process. I agree. Stephen? No, you have to in that situation. You won the game. You get to talk trash. Like what is Jeffrey? If Jeffrey Simmons responds, like he looks like the loser.

because he lost. Scoreboard. I feel like if that was the AFC championship game, though, I wouldn't give the offensive line like the hats and shirts. They don't get those. Like the rest of the team does around them, but they don't get the hats and shirts. They should have to fly it on their own dime.

Like, that would be the point of it. Yeah, just find your way home and take Zach Taylor with you. Or they get those, remember a couple years ago when all the teams had those like really ugly flat brims? What, don't they still have them? Yeah, Kyle Shanahan still wearing them on the sideline. I was going to say, when did that stop happening? Just the coach of the San Francisco 49.

decided that was his look. When you go to the combine, you see a lot more guys wearing flat bill and with huge backpacks. There's a look. There's a look that started on college campuses in, like, California in 2008, and now it's in the NFL. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? It's just a thing, buddy.

So anything else in the Bengals before we get to the Titans? Do you guys think that they have a chance of winning next week, based on what you saw this week? I mean, less than they had to beating the Titans, but sure. I'm like Burrow, they're also not going to give up nine sacks next week, presumably. Is this presumable? They might give up 10. They can bring in an extra guy to help out.

They have one week to make adjustments. Even Zach Taylor in one week can make an adjustment. He's eight days. Okay, but he could have made it in the game. I know, but now he has eight days ago. One side of your offensive line is like getting demolished by pressure. I don't know. Give him a little bit of help.

In game adjustments, someone's going to suggest keeping it back into block and Zach Taylor's going to be like, that's crazy enough to work. And they might use it. The offensive line, like, is this? It's just going to happen every week now, Stephen? I think against the pass rushes left in the playoffs, that you have to assume it will. Like the Bucks, the Rams, the 49ers, the Chiefs, the bills,

they all have good pass rushes. It's like it's not going to get any easier. This tends to happen when you get deeper into the playoffs. The teams get even better. It's also not like this came out of the blue. Like when the Bengals' offense went on a tear late in the season, it wasn't because Burrell wasn't facing pressure. He was just finding a way to make it work.

All right. Let's talk about what a disaster that says for the Titans. This was tough. Ryan Tannahill has now thrown four red zone interceptions this season, most in the NFL. Not a surprise. The Titans have now lost three straight home playoff games. They've never scored, via PFF. They've never scored more than 16 points in any of those games. It's like the same game over and over and over again. Their last home playoff win was 2002. Shout out Jeff Fisher. This was just a Ryan Tannahill implosion from the first play of the game. It was awful. Nora, where does the team go from here? Well, it goes into next year with a cap hit of $38,600,000 for Ryan to Hanel's services.

I also saw that because I wanted to take shop Aaron Rogers going to the Titans take. It's not going to happen. It's a tough scene. They look, here's the good news. They got the number one seat in the AFC. They're a playoff team. They won a lot of games this year. They won a lot of games that it seemed like they might not have won on paper.

And running a back is not the worst thing. in the world. I don't think that they really have another choice just because of the financial burden. Stephen, was this just Tannahill being Tanahill? Yeah, I don't even think it looked bad for his baseline performances throughout the year. Like, this is just who he is. It was pretty bad. This is how he plays when he has to drop back and pass the ball when the running game is not working. This is how he plays. There's nothing better than an island game with a quarterback who puts up good numbers, but is actually bad. It's like the greatest experience. And we got it. We got two of them today. But the problem is that your your offense is built around a running back who has a lot of

carries on him and he was getting older and it just suffered a major foot injury. You have Julio Jones, who I believe, I think that was the last year of his contract. I'm not sure about that, but he's on his way out. I don't think he's going to be on the team for very much longer. You have a quarterback who's making a shitload of money and isn't very good. And on top of all that, your record was a little fake this year. Like you weren't as good as your record. You weren't as your record. So next year is really looking bad for this team. This was the year to do it and they were in position the perfect position they could ask for, not avoiding the chiefs and the bills in the second round, playing games at home, getting the buy, getting the only buy. And we saw what happened.

I agree. But did you think they could win the Super Bowl this year? I mean, no, right? No. But they did. They're basically the same team they were. Yeah, I mean, everybody thinks they can win the Super Bowl. Well, and also last off season, it felt it was pretty popular to fade the Titans too, right? Like, they're losing the coordinator. Can't possibly keep this up. This has been a house of cards all along. And I do think, like, to put on my Kevin hat here, they've proven some impressive things about the culture and being able to sustain and being able to, you know, build, find guys, get it done. I don't think that it's, like, totally hopeless.

I think that they're going to be the same. team next year that they were this year. There's a ceiling on them because of Ryan Tannahill. They're still going to win games. They still have, this is crucial, they still have the Jaguars and Texans in the division. That's four wins every single year, unless you're the Colts. It wasn't four wins this year. Both of those teams lost to the Jets.

I think we should just ruminate on that for a little bit. All right. Well, I don't think it's time to panic in Tennessee, but this is the kind of loss. This reminds me a little bit of the despair, completely different teams. but the despair of when Tennessee went into Baltimore a couple years ago. And it was just like they just couldn't get right. And they just got, they had to, it was almost like existential. Like what the hell did we just do?

Like, why can't we beat the damn Bengals in a sloppy game that was there for us? If Ryan Tannale doesn't throw that pick to Mike Hilton. I mean, there's a million different things that could have changed the course of the game. I think they're going to think this is winnable, in part because I don't think people realize how good this Bengals team is. I don't think people realize how good Joe Burrow is. I don't think Joe Burrough is going to the Super Bowl, but I think we're going to look back on this in five years and be like, of course Joe Burrow was in the AFC championship game, right?

And I don't feel like we're going to say that with this Titans team. This Titans team is what it is. I wouldn't be surprised if this Titan team was the number one seed next year. That's just something that happens now. Like, okay, fine, you won 12 games, 13 games. You won a couple tiebreakers, fine. Like, they're the type of team that can do that. The Bengals and Joe Burrow, from now on,

are the type of team that can play in the championship game every other year. like playing in that end of the pool with Josh Allen, with Patrick Mahomes, that whole crew. Like one of the things I wrote about this other day, but everyone keeps saying, I actually wrote up the column on Friday and somebody said he has been to the segment today on countdown. Everyone keeps saying, well, this so-and-so is the next Brady versus Manning, right? And that's just not going to happen anymore. Like Allen versus Mahomes is not going to be Brady Manning because it's not going to last 15 years. Like teams are different now.

Everything has changed. Quarterbacks are different. There's more depth in the quarterback position than there was in 2000 when that rivalry started to develop. And so it's just going to be completely different. And guys like Joe Burrow are going to get in that. That's part of the problem with saying there's going to be a Brady and Manning. There's going to be like 10 Brady's and 10 Mannings or 5 and 5, whatever. That's a difference.

So that's my point. Are we at a spot where, since there are so many Brady's and Mannings now, that we're not going to see the, I don't know what word to you. use mediocre quarterbacks get these big deals these mediocre starting quarterbacks no we're still going to see that rontan all is a 38 million dollar cap hit right next year yeah i mean he does have a he has a 29 million dollar base salary so which at this point like if somebody you know if baker signed that right like that's a middle class deal relative to what top of the market gets so i i i don't know i think i think that's like a really really really sort of game defining question right now. It was like, will there be any situation where guys are able to break through and say,

okay, you're not getting top of the market money just because you're a starter and you're in line for an extension? It's going to be good, but it's not going to be that good. Like, at a certain point, the numbers for the top line guys are going to get so high that you would think the market will develop some kind of middle strap, but it hasn't happened yet. You think that, but then if Baker was healthy this year, he would have. have gotten insane money for not a lot of not a lot of relative talent compared to Josh Allen, Mahomes, Lamar Jackson. Like if Baker was healthy this year, he would have gotten an insane number.

Because all of this works on precedent and there's no precedent, but someday somebody might set a precedent. But we've been saying that like the closest was like Andy Dalton and even Colin Kaepernick in the mid-2010s. They got a little bit less. But then there was the Derek Carr's highest paid player, Matt Stafford, like that wave. That reset the precedent. and then once that happened, like, we were off to the races.

And then everybody who was, had shown any promise, was getting near top of the line. I think Mahomes was an outlier. But I think that just below that, you're going to see a lot of guys who are insanely, highly paid. And to answer your question, Stephen, like, I think it's been over a decade since people have to say, okay, this quarterback bubble is going to burst. You know, some team is going to, I told the story before, but I remember GM was like, watch Jay Cutler in Chicago. Like that's the baseline.

If they extend Jay Cutler in Chicago for big money, then like everybody's going to do it. Then no one's ever going to draw a line in the sand. And then they did it. Now was the contract that obviously was his last in Chicago. It didn't work out. But there were been chances for teams to draw in the line in the sand and they just haven't done it. Partly because GMs and coaches know that if you don't have all quarterback you get fired, so they talk themselves into it.

Like that's part of this whole psychology thing is you talk yourself into it and you say we can win a Super Bowl with Ryan Tannan. Hill because what other option do you have if you're Tennessee right now? Maybe I'm giving front offices too much credit, but I think over the last two years, I think Tulsie quarterbacks have like grown in prominence. There was like a time period where everyone wanted like the smart, accurate quarterback like Brady and Manning. But like if you're a Patriots fan and you watch that loss to the bills and you see what

Josh Allen is, how do you convince yourself that you're ever going to be able to compete with that yearly when you look at like a quarterback like Mack Jones or Ryan Tannahill? I think you could kind of squint and fool yourself into thinking Chad Pennington could be Tom Brady if you give them the right weapons. I don't think you can do that now with these quarterbacks that we're seeing like Patrick Mahomes, Herbert, Lamar Jackson, Allen. These guys are like very obviously different, a different breed of quarterback than the middle of the road quarterback. And I don't think that was always the case. Yeah, I'm with you, Stephen. Bottom line, feel for your Titans.

All right, we need to get Aaron Rogers here because we're running out of time. So here are the quotes. So Aaron Rogers was asked about the salary cap challenges of the Packers, of which there are many. He said, quote, there's a lot of decisions to be made, and I don't want to be a part of a rebuild if I'm going to keep playing. On his own future, he said, quote, I'm going to take some time away, make a decision, obviously before free agency and when everything gets going on that front. It's the quote I already read. And then there's one more that is, he said he didn't have a great night tonight. pushes back on your narrative, Ruiz.

He did not. He did not think he did nothing wrong. He said he's going to talk to Goody in the next week and will consider how much longer he wants to play. The loss is too fresh to contemplate his future, he said, according to reporters who were there. And then just kind of more of the same. He's numb. If he score 10 points, you're not going to win a lot of these games. I didn't think it was going to end like this.

So that's it. We're in a holding pattern. Rogers was upset. We knew that. But now he's talking about sounds like it. think maybe even more not playing anymore than trying to go to Denver, Pittsburgh. Norah, what do you think about these comments? I think the same. I think it sounds a lot like last season, right? It sounds a lot like there's uncertainty for everybody. There's a lot of things that we

don't know. I'm going to take some time away, you know? And maybe that means that we repeat the cycle and he ends up back at surprise, surprise, he's there in Green Bay for training camp. Or we repeat. a different cycle, which is the Brett Farr of Mississippi Farm cycle. What's his equivalent of a Mississippi farm? Is it hanging out with Miles Teller? Yes. That's two Miles Teller. You know how much caps base the Packers have for next year?

Tell me. Negative 40.5 million, with 41 players, only 41 player signed. I feel like he dropped in that rebuild comment. He put some thought into that, and he's been thinking about it, what this offseason looks like for the past. I don't think it looks good. It could look like what the off-season looked like for the Saints last year. I think you're right, but I think that this man has, like, staged his bookshelves to

make a point at various times this season. So I just, I'm done. I'm done. The other thing he said was whether or not the team is still set up to win a Super Bowl with those things you just mentioned, Stephen. He said, quote, that's a fair question. Definitely one I've thought about. I don't know, man.

Sounds like he doesn't want to play for the 20s. 2022 Packers. I'll discuss it with him on the pod. Me and him have. All right. Any other notes you guys had on tonight's games that you didn't bring out? I just wanted to talk about how small, I think we brought this up last week, like how small the margin for error for Joe Burrow is.

Like, doesn't it feel like he played amazing in that game? And he averaged like 10 yards per attempt. And he was very close to losing that game and only scoring, what, 16, 19 points in it? Like, I don't know. Get him some help. He led all quarterbacks today with minus 0.2 EPA per job. Even his interception, it was like two inches off, two inches wide, and it turned into an interception. And like his margin for error is so small right now.

And I don't know. I feel bad for him. You feel bad for him. I do. I wish he had more help. I think he would have a chance of winning the Super Bowl this year if he had more help. That's probably true. Do you mean, okay, let me ask you a question.

If you could import one thing into Joe Burroughs life. New coach, new line. It would be a new coach. It would be a new coach. You watched the game, and yes, they gave up some sacks where, like, an alignment just got beat up, beat up, beat straight up. But there was a lot where it was a scheme sack, like, where they were rushing six and they only had five to block. Like, it's hard to put that on the offensive line. You can't block six people, and there's only five of you.

All right. You guys excited for tomorrow? Oh, yeah. All right. Well, we'll see you then. Solac will be here. We'll all be back in the midweek as well. This has been the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network.

Thank you to Chris Sutton for his production with additional productions provisioned by Arjuna Ramkipal.