The Ringer NFL Show - Saturday Divisional Round Recap: Chiefs Win Despite Mahomes Injury, Eagles Soar Past Giants | The Ringer NFL Recap Show

Episode Date: January 22, 2023

Nora and Steven start the pod by recapping the Chiefs’ win over the Jaguars (01:47). They discuss Patrick Mahomes’s ankle injury and how Steve Spagnuolo's defense stifled the Jaguars’ offensive game plan. After, they talk about the Eagles’ emphatic win over the Giants and Daniel Jones's future in New York (23:43). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Producer: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The Chiefs and Eagles are each a win away from the Super Bowl. I'm here with Stephen Ruiz. We will get to Chiefs Jaguars and the Patrick Mahomes injury first, talk about the Eagles rolling over the giant second. Stephen, how was your Saturday of Divisional Round before we start? You know, both games were kind of a disappointment just because, you know, I want to see a full strength. I want to see a full strength Mahomes. And I don't want to see a blowout in the NFC.

So I feel like I'm always, I'm always saying like, oh, I didn't have the best football watching experience. But I feel like I'm justified this week. Steven, has anyone told you that you ever told you that you're hard to play? please. Yeah, yeah, all the time. All right. Well, let's start with Chiefs Jaguars. Kansas City wins this one, 27 to 20.

The big story here, obviously, is Patrick Mahomes getting rolled up on, hurting the ankle, goes out for a series or two, ends up coming back in in the second half and playing the rest of the game. X-rays negative. He's going to have an MRI on Sunday. We're recording this Saturday night, obviously, to get more clarity on the state of the injury. He was hobbling around there a little bit, but obviously he was able to come back in and play. First of all, Stephen, just what did you think watching Mahomes go through that?

And all of a sudden, you're feeling like, okay, the entire landscape of the playoffs has just changed. And then seeing him go back in there and kind of have to feel it around on the ankle a little bit, but end up being able to continue on in game. it was like a roller coaster. Like he started off Mahomes like. Like God like Mahomes. The best version that I've ever seen. The first drive. Yeah.

The jump pass was ridiculous. Like, was that your favorite? I think so. The third and six already in the grasp, like Ardenkies like got him and he's just like, nah. It's not over. It's fine.

The jump pass for me was the best one because we talked, like I think we've talked a lot of, lot about like shorter quarterbacks having problems in the pocket. And then this guy is like the pocket is collapsing in on him. He has all these giant human beings around him. And he has the thought, hey, how about I jump? How about I jump and throw the pass? And that will allow me to get it over the line. Just like creativity, the audacity to try that, everything about it. It's just, I think that play like kind of encapsulates why he, I think he's the best talent to ever play the position. because it took like he had to read the defense from the pocket.

And then he had, he was like, oh, there's no way for me to get this pass off unless I, unless I levitate, unless I literally levitate above the pass run. And that's what he did. So like,

it started out like that and I thought we were going to get like another Mahomes classic, just like we did last divisional round and last year's playoffs against the bills. Then the injury happens. And when he came back initially, like, and I'm not talking about like the second time he came back, before Henney even got in. there before the end of the first quarter, I really didn't think that they had a chance to win

with the way he was playing. Yeah. Like, he couldn't push off his foot. He couldn't scramble if the platform wasn't perfect. He couldn't make a throw. And I, like, I thought that adrenaline would eventually kick in and he would be fine. And like, I don't even know if that really happened because he's, I sprained my ankle plenty of times, really bad. And usually when that happens, you're able to, like, eventually you're able to just like walk on it normally. And then like, when you stop playing, like it just blows up. For him, it seemed like a really bad injury

because he was hobbling the whole game. Like he never got that adrenaline. You could see it bothering him the whole time. And Mahomes already runs kind of like his joints are swollen and he can't like bend his knees normally. So it is even a more drastic. Like he's already kind of,

he already kind of looks like that. And all of a sudden it's like he can barely like, he's hobbling around on, on wooden legs kind of. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he, when he runs when he's healthy, he, like, looks like he has to go to the bathroom and he's, like, trying to hold it in. So this didn't this didn't help This didn't help but it didn't matter Like he did just enough to win

Like he won that game It wasn't a situation where I really thought The Chiefs like offense carried him either Like he had to make plays He had to make plays on the move at times Like the last touchdown pass He was on the move and scrambled And moved outside of the pocket

And threw it in the back of the end zone It was just an amazing performance And like I'm running out of superlatives I don't know how we're gonna be How are we gonna be talking about this guy in four years He is not in his prime yet I don't think. I think that's the thing that, like, a lot of people overlook just because he's so accomplished at such a young age.

He's still, like, two or three years from really hitting his prime. Like, Brady, I'm trying to do the math in my head. 2007 was, what, eight years after he was drafted. He was, like, 30 years old. And that was, like, a second era for Brady. Brady was not that guy over the first part of his career. So imagine if he gets football on that level. And I think he's on that track.

And, like, he unlocks, like, another level to. I'm in all of it. Yeah. I mean, it's just that first drive. Like, they run the option. There's the jump pass. There's that little sidearm throw. There's the just dart when he's already in the grasp.

Arden Key's tackling. It was among the most impressive drives that you'll ever see. And it made it feel all of the more like not even just what's happening to this game, but what has happened. to the defining stretch of this playoffs when he got hurt. But then to your point, like, he sort of feel like, okay, the rest of the chief's offense has to sort of carry him here. And, you know, Isaiah Pacheco had a really good and impactful game.

They got 144 yards in the ground in total 95 from Pacheco. And I thought he made a major impact. And, you know, he had that 39-yard run on the whatever it was, 98-yard touchdown drive. that they ran when Chad Henney had to come in. And I do think that that was an impressive moment for the rest of those guys stepping up in a moment when they needed to carry him a little bit. But to your point, the rest of the game,

like he was still the one, the rest of the office wasn't letting him down or anything, but he was still the one making things happen. And so, you know, I don't think just because obviously they still have to do more tests and we'll see and swelling has to go down and we're not doctors. It's not really useful for us to do much prognosticating about what this is going to be like going forward.

Obviously, they will play the winner of Bill's Bengals in the AFC championship game next weekend. But is there anything else about this offense that you felt like you learned from this game or that was a notable takeaway going forward absent the context around the injury? I think it shows that this team doesn't need explosives to win. like they didn't really get a lot of explosive plays outside of the run game. Even Kelsey, I think he caught 14 passes, was an NFL record for a tight end,

average like eight yards per reception. And Cadarius Tony only averaged eight yards per reception. But even within that context, they were still moving the ball really well. Like the Jaguars really didn't have an answer for anything they were doing. And I think that just kind of speaks to the evolution of not only this offense, but Patrick Mahomes as a whole. I talked about this on the Friday show.

The game plan in the first Jaguars Chiefs matchup during the regular season. Mike Caldwell, the Jaguars defensive coordinator who used to coach on the Buck staff under Todd Bowles, who was on the staff when they won the Super Bowl. I thought their game plan for that game was similar to the Buck Super Bowl game plan where we weren't

going to blitz. We're going to play too high. We're going to make you be patient and you're going to have to beat us. And in that first game, Mahomes did that. He was like, okay, I don't care. I've evolved. I can beat this style of defense. So then they go back to the like the unsound style of defense where they're like, it's more like a bull's defense where you're blitzing, you're doing like fire zone blitzes and you're playing base defense and doing all that stuff. And he just picked it apart too. And this was

with him being hurt and being under duress. Like that first drive, we talked about Mahomes just being like on it. If you pause every snap at like 2.5 seconds after the ball was snapped, you'd be like, oh, the Jaguars are winning this down. They have pressure. No one's open. He has nowhere to escape. And then like it's a 20-yard game. So, like, that's one of the things that's so insane about him is that we treat pressure like it is the, the end of the story, right? Like the end of the play. The name of the game is to get pressure on the quarterback.

That we use that as a proxy, right? Of like, if you pressure the quarterback, you're going to screw up the play. With most quarterbacks, that is a given. Even quarterbacks have decent mobility, right? Like, if you get pressure on them, you are winning the play. the analogous impact with Mahomes, not just because he can move around, but because he's so comfortable throwing off of any type of platform because, you know, I wonder how much of it is like, it is the comfort with making those throws and his arm talent and doing that, but it's also like

a sort of core strength and having that type of base and also just having the mental cool in those situations. The name of the game with Mahomes is you have screwed up the play when you have him on the ground. Yes. Pressure. Quarterback hit? Maybe. Probably more often than not, but it does not equate in a one-to-one sense with you've blown up the play. And that is one the most special things that we see a quarterback do. And he's, he's not the only one to ever do it, but he's the best at it. And it's just a thing to watch. It doesn't look like this when other people do it. Like even when Josh Allen does it, it looks more like, like Josh Allen makes himself look like a force of nature, but he's really dominating. Like he just, it looks like nobody can tackle him.

Looks like he can throw the ball outside of the stadium if you wanted to. With Mahomes, it just always looks so easy and so cool. And going back to my first point about how Mahomes has evolved and he's able to beat these defenses that make him be patient, I think that matters a lot for the next matchup, because these are two defenses that have made him try to beat, or they have tried to make him be that quarterback, and they've had success and wins over the last two years. Like the Bills and the Bengals both beat, they both beat the Chiefs the last two years using that style.

And I don't know if it's going to work this time around unless the ankle is really messed up. And his mobility is, if his mobility isn't there, I think they're going to have a hard time beating these two teams, either of them. But if it's there, I think Boholmes is ready for this challenge in a way that he wasn't even last year. Yeah. I mean, we'll see right with the ankle. Obviously, it's good news. And he was able to go back in there. He very clearly was making some strong statements to coaches on the sidelines about wanting to play.

So you figure if indeed the MR. eyes also come back negative and there's nothing structural that he will be good to go and be in a better place than he was coming back in. But you just never know. You never know how swelling works, what they find when they do more tests. So we'll have to see about that. Obviously, you want to see Mahomes at full strength, right? Because when we saw it just for the beginning portion of this game, it was pretty, pretty special. And either one of those would be really exciting and really interesting for the point you just. made. And you mentioned moving away from the need to have a ton of explosives. Maybe we can talk

about the Jags offense a little bit. By the time Kansas City is up 20 to 10, the end of the third quarter, at that point, Trevor Lawrence had 10 of 23, so 43 and a half percent of his passing attempts, according to true media, were at or behind the line of scrimmage. Then when they were in a bigger hole. We did see him start to try to push it downfield a little bit. What do you think offensively was going on with the game plan being so horizontal for the vast majority of the game, especially when it was still sort of not getting out of hand? That seems to be a feature of this offense at the beginning of games. Like opening script, they seem to want to get those types of plays established and put pressure on the fly.

on the defense. I think what they realized as the game went on in the first quarter and the second quarter is they couldn't block the chiefs. Like that was very apparent. They could not block them whether it was just like one-on-one, one-on-ones they were losing or Spagnolo like breaking their protection. They got so many free rushers. I think Doug was just like, this is the only thing that's working. This is literally the only thing that's working. It's the only way we can move the ball. We can't run the ball. We can't protect well enough for Trevor to hold onto the ball for three seconds. Like this is the only thing that's working. So I think it was like a practice. I don't think he went into the game thinking, I'm going to cook with bubble screens.

We're going to beat Patrick Bowles with 30 bubble screens. I think it was reactionary. And I think I'm not like excusing the approach because I do think it's the reason why they fell in the hole. I think you have to find other ways to protect, whether it's keeping guys in and not having five guys out in the route every play. And I think that was an issue for them early on. So like I think it was a play calling issue, but I also think it was just like a talent advantage. and then also, yeah, he was a little slow to adjust. But I think they eventually got it right.

And you saw the jack start to move the ball. Spags did a great job. Spags did a great job. Yeah, look, my answer to part of why I thought they were so dedicated to stretching the field horizontally instead of vertically earlier in the game was an attempt, at least, to try to make the Chiefs tackle. And I don't think that's bad strategy. at all, right? But to Kansas City's defense's credit, to Spaggs's credit, they met that challenge.

They were doing just fine. If anything, I mean, you know, leave the offense because of the Mahomes injury factor aside. I was, I was really impressed with Kansas City's defense in this. Because I, and I look, some of the stats with the Jags offense are impacted, right? If, if, if Kirk catches that. that like 55-yard bomb, right, that Lawrence throws early, that ends up being, that ends up really adjusting some of the numbers here, right? And I thought that, especially when they moved past that point and they wore down by 10, Doug Peterson had some pretty good play calling moments in this, right? Like the first drive of the fourth quarter, I think,

they get into second and 18 Derek Nottie Sacks Lawrence and then from that point that drive was really, really impressive. They got their first explosive on that 37-yarder to Zay Jones. And then they'd run I was sort of laughing because they'd run all those screens and I was getting a little bit like, okay, what in the name of Matt

Patricia are we doing here? But then they run the reverse to Christian Kirk that's set up like it's kind of the same thing that they've been doing and it's a little bit of a cool change up of that look. And then they've, right after they do the reverse to Kirk, Peterson followed it up at the goal line with a little ghost motion. It was like a very well like sequenced Doug Peterson play call.

They get a touchdown out of it. But it just like, your margin of error is so tight against Kansas City. Even with an injured quarterback that you kind of, you have to be perfect. And I do think they left a little bit on the table. with some of that in the first few quarters. So it's a little bit tough.

And then obviously the turnovers started to be what let any chance of a real comeback slip away with the Agnew Fumble and then Trevor Lawrence throwing the pick. But my point here is not that I thought Doug Peterson called a terrible game or anything. It was just a mixed bag. And you sort of can't have that when you're playing the Chiefs. Yeah, it was just two good play callers going at it. like I thought Spagnola had a great game plan. I thought the game plan, and I don't know if this was intentional,

was to speed Trevor Lawrence up because they were sending a lot of like zone blitzes early on. And I think they were trying to get him sped up. And I think you saw him get sped up a little bit. There were some throws that I thought weren't in the best rhythm. And he was off. He missed some throws. So I think they made him uncomfortable. But like last week, I thought Trevor settled down in the second half and showed some stuff in the fourth quarter.

Like he made some throws on those last couple of drives. I know the game was technically like, garbage time, but they were still in the game. And he was making some tough throws. So, like, all around, this playoff experience for the Jaguars, even though this was a game that I feel like they probably felt like they should have won after Mahomes went out. Right.

Or got hurt. Yeah. It kind of feels like a missed opportunity. It does feel like a missed opportunity. But, like, total success. Every box was checked. Like, Doug's still got the juice that he had in Philadelphia. Trevor is not going to be, you know, shaken by.

the big stage going up against Mahomes, going up against Herbert, like playing in front of that crowd in Arrowhead. And like, I don't think, I think he, like, I think he had some questionable plays,

but he made some really strong throws. So, yeah, a plus for Trevor in the playoffs. Even with the four interceptions started. Jaguar's off season is going to be interesting. I guess this is sort of only, this isn't really a part of their offseason because it's,

the move has already been made. just in terms of what the team constructing next year's roster. The biggest thing to me is I'm just fascinated to see what Calvin Ridley looks like in this offense, what he looks like after the time off. But if he is similar to the Calvin Ridley from 2020, that's going to be really exciting. Because if we, yeah. And if we talk about, okay, why were things looking a little east west instead of north-south? uh,

Calvin Ridley might change that, that formula a little bit. Um, definitely some defensive needs there as well that I'm sure they'll address in free agency in the draft, but an interesting off season there and probably, uh, a relief to be going into the off season and not have to deal with.

Okay, who's coming in to pick up the pieces post urban Meyer? Uh, how much have we, how much have we screwed up Trevor Lawrence's development? I think you can really rest easy there after this season. in being like, okay, made it to the playoffs, won a playoff game. Lawrence looks like a great franchise quarterback.

Doug Peterson is the guy. You know, there's even with the Mojones injury, it simultaneously does feel like a missed opportunity, but there's still, there's just no shame in losing in the Chiefs. It's, you know, they're going to the UFC championship game for the fifth straight year. So it'll be cool to follow the Jags from here.

But this does feel different to me than even after 2017, team, right? Oh, yeah. It's not Blake portals. That was such a house of cards. Like, once that defense collapsed, it was over. And, like, the good thing is, there aren't a lot of obvious holes on the team. But, yeah, there's just sort of like, there are some B minus position groups that if you want to really contend.

There are also, like, no A group. So there is room for improvement. And they're, like, I think this is proof of concept that Trevor is one of those guys where you're going. to be in it every year. As long as he's there, as long as you put a decent team around him, a seven out of ten team all around, you're going to be in the playoffs. And I think we're starting to see that, you know, start to develop, especially now that he has Doug Peterson. Maybe Trevor on his own at this point wouldn't have been able to get them to this point, but with like a Super Bowl winning coach who is probably a top 10 coach in the league, maybe top

five, probably make the argument. I think this team is going to be back. And they don't have to pay the Jaguars tax next year, or next offseason when they try to sign people. You don't got to give Chris and Kirk $25 million, $20 million, whatever they gave them. The NFL playoffs are heating up. And with Fandle, every play is a rush. New customers join today so you can bet the divisional round with $150 in free bets guaranteed when you place your first $5 bet.

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All right, good stuff. Shall we talk about Eagles Giants a little bit? I know this game was not particularly competitive, but it was still a playoff game. It still happened. It still happened.

The Eagles won 38 to 7, just kind of a total beat down. I do think this puts into a little bit of perspective for the Giants. What exactly, or maybe more accurately for the Vikings, right, but what happened last weekend in the wild card.

But, I mean, defensively, offensively, I suppose the biggest takeaway here is that Jalen Hurts, even if he's not 100%, I mean, clearly he was making some business decisions, pulling up short on scrambles and stuff like that. But his health does not seem like something that is going to limit Philadelphia. is stealing going forward, or at least that was my main takeaway from this game. What do you think about that? At least not in the run game. And I think that was a concern for people.

He's like, he's banged up. He's not going to want to run. They're not going to run him. And like, that's a big part of their offense. Him being part of the run game. We talked about that all year. He's kind of been the key to how they play offense. But they were running him just fine.

They're running them in the fourth quarter when they're up three scores with like eight minutes left. So there was a pregame report saying he's not close to being 100%. I don't know like how to take those. that report. Well, also the pregame report was that he said he wasn't close to 100%. And I'm a little bit like, all right. All right, Jalen. I mean, are we splitting hairs here?

Like, it seemed, what, 88%. Yeah, yeah. I don't know how he came to the number. But, like, it doesn't seem like it's affecting his decision making on the field. I mean, maybe he, like, missed, like, that one deep throw to AJ Brown where he's wide open, but, like, it didn't seem to bother his throat. No, it doesn't seem like it's affecting. his arm. It doesn't seem like it's affecting him in the passing game. And it doesn't feel like

it's affecting how they run their offense. It did seem like it was affecting him a couple times on just like, okay, how much contact am I going to put myself in line to take? But in terms of what parts of the playbook are open to them, it didn't, you know, at least to my eye, it was not obvious. And obviously, you know, they kind of ran away with it. So it wasn't, you're not pulling out all the stops, but it didn't look like they were limited in any big way. And I don't really think we learned anything about the Eagles that we didn't already know. Like, they're super talented when Lane Johnson's out there, like, they have the best offensive line. They can really just run it down your throat if they want to.

This was similar to the week 14 game in that they ran like two run concepts. And like the Giants just had no answer for it. That's what happened in week 14. They literally ran the same run play in week 14. The last drive of the first half like five times in a row. And the Giants had no answer for it. And like that was tonight. Jalen Hertz, I think, only through like 25 passes. I mean, he was efficient. 24 for 154. He didn't have to, he only had to throw for 150 yards to put up 38 yards. Like this was 38 points. This was such a dominant performance. And I don't think they had to show anything on tape. They didn't really have to like go deep into their bag of third down calls, their past concepts. It was like a vanilla game. And I, I think this, that's like the best case scenario in

the playoffs. You save your energy. This is everyone's tired. everyone's bained up this time of year. You're not giving stuff away, the playbook stuff. It's harder to scout you because that was just a blowout win. Perfect night for them all around. They'll play. Obviously, the winner of 49ers Cowboys will have a ton of time next week to talk about whatever matchup ends up being the NFC championship game.

I do think whoever they end up drawing, it's nothing new to see. this defense looks super impressive and the defensive front be able to get a ton of pressure. But that hit home to me watching this game. Just, you know, the Giants offensive line was outmatched here. Hassan Reddick absolutely took over the game. And it just, it just makes you think watching those guys play at full speed. Okay. whoever it ends up being, right?

But like especially if you've got someone like Brock Purdy, potentially playing an NFC championship game, a spot he never imagined that he would be in. Someone who has some mobility, some ability to evade pressure and is certainly using that as part of his game, at least so far that we've seen in San Francisco. But you just imagine that if they get matched up against a defensive line that can just.

just get in his face over and over again. That's going to be a scary situation for Brock Purdy. And I wouldn't like the idea if I were him, regardless of how good that that offense can be, just of dealing with these guys. I thought they looked really, really dominant. And then the secondary, too. I mean, I think that was pretty predictable

that after going up against the Vikings defense and the Viking secondary, that dealing with James Bradbury, dealing with Darius Lay was going to be a little bit of a different situation, but they were pretty shut down of these Giants receivers. So I thought the defense looked very finely tuned

after the buy, coming out of the buy, and going into the next round of the playoffs. Yeah, and that's why I think like game script matters so much for these teams in the NFC going up against Philadelphia because if they can tee off, like you said, it's over, especially when you have a bad offensive line, like the Giants,

or not like a bad, but a mismatch offensive line. I'm not sure, like, I think we're going to see Brock Birdie have to deal with pressure against the Cowboys. But I think that Shanahan will do a better job of taking the teeth out of the pass rush. And I think it's going to be a different environment for the Eagles defensive line. I think when you play against teams that are more limited like the Giants, I think you can look better than you actually are. We saw this with the Giants when they played the Vikings last week.

I think that some, I don't know, I don't want to like overreact to that dominant performance. because it's going to be a different, it's going to be a totally different game against either one of these teams they face next week. Yeah, well, and the game got out of hand, right? Like the Giants first four possessions were turnover on downs after they go for the fourth and eight, interception, punt, punt.

They were just going nowhere, right? And the game, the score 28 to nothing by halftime. Like, it just got out of hand. And they can't play from behind. Like, they were still trying to run the ball in the third quarter in the fourth quarter and they're like one of their big plays was the Sequin run. Brian Daibald was punting like down 21 in the fourth quarter.

It was a really weird game. That was super weird. And then the Eagles drive after that was just a field goal, but they take up eight minutes. And it's like it's totally predictable. And it's the type of thing that you don't think that, you know, Daibol, who again is going for fourth and eight in the first quarter, which I actually, I didn't hate it. You need, you're a double digit underdog.

You need some things to go right. But if you're going to do that, you can't be punting in that situation. I thought that was a little strange. Yeah. Like, I don't think it's an over exaggeration to say that that first fourth down, like the game was already over when they didn't get that. Because like we said, they can't play from behind. They needed a positive game script to play the type of offense they want to play.

And really, the type of defense they want to play. They didn't want to get in a game where Philadelphia could just grind out the clock on the ground. And that's exactly the type of game they got into. And that's the game they got into in week 14. It's a game they kind of got into in week 18 when they weren't really playing anybody. I don't want to like overreact to this result because I think Brian Dave all did a great job. I still have questions about Wink Martindale. I started asking those questions last year when he was with the Ravens and didn't adjust after all those injuries.

I don't understand how that was the game plan against his team again and how they lost in the same exact way that they lost like five weeks ago. There was no adjustment. they were playing the same fronts. They were playing the same coverages. They were, it was really frustrating to watch. I think Wink thought, oh, we were missing a bunch of guys. We didn't have Leonard Williams. We didn't have Adori Jackson.

We didn't have Xavier McKinney. Now we could play like our normal style and we could compete this time. No, like I think that's a naive evaluation of your own talent in comparison to what Philly has. Because Philly was just a better team across the board on paper. At almost every position, they're the better team. So Wink, Farnedale and naive game plans, man. There's not a better combo in this league over the last two years.

Well, so what do you, do you think they should have blitz less? I mean, that that was a pretty effective way to slow down hurts during the regular season. What would you have done differently? No, I think, I think one of the problems during these matchups between these two teams is Wink didn't do enough to change the picture before and after the snap. He kind of, like, presented what the front was. Okay. The Eagles knew what it was and they could just run their run plays. They knew how to get the Giants in the right run fits and how to exploit them.

So I think it's more of like just being more covert about it, not necessarily like disguising coverages, but disguising your run from a little bit, kind of move the picture and make a moving target for Nick Seriani to hit. It was such an easy gameplay. I don't even like, I really don't even think they got to like the fourth page of their gameplan. They didn't have to do anything. Like it was so easy. The Giants literally did not stop.

one thing. They didn't stop to run. They didn't stop the pass. 268 rushing yards. It's the fifth highest total in a playoff game in the last 20 years. That's from our guy Sheal Capadia. Shout out Sheal. Yeah. So I don't know. I'm kind of over winked Martinville.

Get a new bit. All right. Okay. So you're overwinked Bartendale. That'll be something for the Giants to think long and hard about going into this offseason. Did this game, obviously Daniel Jones was dealing with a lot of pressure. He got sacked five times.

Finishes 15 and 27 for 135 yards, throws the pick. He was coming off this sort of triumphant, like, career game against Minnesota. I don't want to take anything away from that. I thought he was genuinely very impressive there, but I think we do get very clear evidence in how this game went that the Vikings defense, which now has fired their coordinator, was a contributing factor to the result in that game and how Daniel Jones looked in that game. What do you think now that we have the final word

on this Daniel Jones season and the Giants will have to figure out what to do going into next year, how do you look at the final picture of everything that we got out of Daniel Jones this year? It's kind of interesting because last week we got the best of Daniel Jones. This week we got the worst of Daniel Jones. And I think the answer is somewhere in the middle.

It was the best of Jones. It was the worst. We saw his ceiling. We saw his floor. And his floor was really ugly. But I think it just goes to show how much pressure affects quarterbacks. And like that's the number one thing. That's always going to be the number one thing.

And I thought he proved this year that one, he's a useful quarterback. Like he can help your run game. If you protect him and you get guys open, he can make the throws for the most part. He didn't do it tonight. But he did it last week. I'm still of the mind that they should let him simmer a little. And he'll eventually turn into something useful, like, or something more. than useful like a Ryan Tannahill's

two years with the Titans when he was at like his peak when AJ Brown was there. Yeah. I think you can get to that point. The question is how much money is he going to want? Is there going to be a market for Daniel Jones if the Giants say, hey, go test free agency and then come back if you don't find anything. That's the question and that's a really good question. And I think, you know, I would never want to stand in between a player and their money if it's somewhere else, right?

So if he can get a lot more money somewhere else, he should do that. I do think that it's a great pairing of Daniel Jones with Brian Dable, someone who we've seen take a quarterback like Josh Allen, obviously, you know, different players who have reached different heights, but has contributed positively to the development of multiple highly drafted quarterbacks who hadn't quite lived up to that billing early on in their careers. The money is going to be the interesting thing. You mentioned Tanna Hill. J.J. and I talked about this a little bit on the island last one. week. I believe, and I don't have those numbers in front of me, but from memory, I think if you adjust the Tannahill deal to, like, present salary cap, it would work out to putting, or no, maybe this was the Bordals deal, would work out to, like, 23 million a year. I think it'll be more

than that, but that would be, like, the absolute floor. Yeah, the Tana Hill one was 30. I wrote about that when I wrote about Jones. It was like 30. And it was over four. It was for four years, right? So if you could do, I think that's where it's going to like that's going to be the sweet spot, right? Is 30-ish a year. And if you're the Giants and you could get it. I don't, I don't think you're going to have a great shot at like a two-year deal. But man, if you could, you'd feel great about it. But a three-year deal or something like that. If I were them, I would make that. I would make that. I would do it. I would do it. And then I would try to adjust the situation around him so that you get a very clear answer of whether or not he can turn into a quarterback who's a more effective downfield passer. Because right now, you know, if you give me true serum, I think it's, I think it's him.

I think Daniel Jones is not comfortable with a lot of those throws. I think he doesn't make them. I think he often chooses not to make them when they are there for him. However, with this receiving core, there is a little asterisk next to that. So change that situation. And again, not in front of me, but they had, you know, some of the lowest numbers in the league of deep, deep passes, like passes of over 20 air yards. And I don't think that was totally for lack of opportunities. But make it so that you can't say that anymore.

Make it so that it's very, that you know one way or another. because if Daniel Jones could add that to his game, now you've got something. I'm not saying you've Patrick Mahomes, but you've really got something. Like, that is the missing piece. I mean, like Jalen Hertz has evolved past this, but like even last year,

Jalen Hertz was a decent to good quarterback just based on his running ability and ability to throw deep. Like he didn't even target the middle of the field. He didn't have to because he was good at those two things. If you can do those two things, and that's like the baseline. of what you're contributing.

Like, yeah, anything else is just, like, extra on top. I agree with you. But you brought up the Jaguars. And I think the Jaguars negotiation with Blake Bortles is like a good cautionary tale for this team. Because the Jaguars didn't play hardball with Blake Bortles. No one else was going to give Blake Bortles that deal. No other team was in the market for Blake Bordles. And they paid him like $18 million a year over three years per year for three years.

I think that if you're the Giants, let Daniel Jones walk if he wants to. I have not overpaying Daniel Jones. There is no reason to overpaid Daniel Jones. He has no leverage. I don't think there's going to be a huge market. He knows that he just had his best year with Brian Dayball. I don't think he wants to move on to a different system. I think he feels comfortable there.

I'm playing hardball with them. I have all the leverage. And I'm just like, if you want to walk, if someone's going to pay you $30 million, we'll let them pay you $30 million. I'm not budging off of $25. And I think that's like a good deal for them. of 20. I think you're going to have to go a little bit higher than that, but, but in general, I agree with you. I think like coming to the table at first, yes. I think if he goes to the market,

I don't know if he gets 30. Like, who's paying him 30? I can't think of one team that would pay that much. Maybe the Jets. You wouldn't even have to move. Stay in New Jersey or wherever he lives. I imagine he lives in New Jersey. We'll see. I would be, I think I look, there's a lot of, there's a lot of quarterbacks who are not that great earning $30 million a year. At some point, it's just the cost of the position. I don't know. And I'm not saying first offers, right, because then you end up somewhere higher than that. But if I were the giants and it were a short-term deal, that number doesn't scare me

that much because you know that you're going to be decent. Now, I do think that that has to come coupled with the philosophy of we're going to keep our eyes peeled. And, okay, yeah, maybe we're committing some real money. to the quarterback position, but not for that long. And we see more and more that teams are able to get around this. Because the worst thing that they can do is say, okay, we're going all in. Daniel Jones is the guy.

And he's our franchise quarterback. He's the next 10 years of the New York Giants. Great. Done. Quarterback, check. And then if it doesn't work out, he doesn't develop as a downfield passer. You backslide a little bit. you're not going to be bad enough to get a high pick.

So then all of a sudden you're stuck in the middle, which we've got a pretty decent swap of evidence is one of the worst places to be as an NFL team. So I would, if I were, if I were a member of the Giants front office, I would feel pretty good about committing something to Daniel Jones, but I would want to have a good, take a good long look in the mirror and go, I'm not, we're not set for life here. And we shouldn't start acting like it.

it feels like a new trend where like whenever we see one of these like young and up-and-coming teams that have a lot of talent around the quarterback position, but the quarterback is little questionable. It's like, oh, maybe we should just drop him and trade for a star quarterback. I feel like that's become a new thing. I don't think the Giants are in position to even do that. Like even if you put Aaron Rogers on the Giants, how many games does this team win? Like 10? Yeah. I mean, the next thing I was going to say, which is something that you have said is I would say, before.

giving, you know, before giving Daniel Jones three years and $100 million, call the Ravens. Just call them. Just dial them up. Just make sure, you know, leave no stone unturned. I think every team should call them. Even the chiefs. Call them. Do you imagine Andy Reed with Patrick Mahalms and Lamar Jackson?

Wow. Pretty good. That's like unfair. There would have to, there would be a rules change. The competition committee would have to get involved in some way, shape. reform. That's like, that's a monopoly. Yes. I want one team to try to acquire two good

quarterbacks and not because they want to play the two quarterbacks just so someone else doesn't get the other good quarterback. Just forward them. Just forward the quarterbacks. All right. That's a great idea. I don't know if this podcast is getting any better than one team should hoard all the

quarterbacks. We've got two more great games hopefully tomorrow and we'll be covering those with Benjamin Solac. Anything else from this Saturday of divisional weekend, Stephen, before we go? No, I will say this. I opened up the show saying I was kind of disappointing in the football.

I was very happy with the results because we are guaranteed two good conference championship games no matter what happens tomorrow. Agreed. Agreed. Basically, what I'm saying is I didn't want the Jaguars and Giants to advance. Enough. I had enough. We've seen enough.

Fall, don't lie. All right. This has been the Ringer NFL Divisional Round Recap show. I'm Nar Pintziotti. he's Stephen Ruiz. Thank you so much to Eduardo Ocampo for production on this episode and to our Juno Ramgapal for additional production supervision. We will be back tomorrow, like I said, with Benjamin Solac following up on the rest of the divisional games.