The Ringer NFL Show - Seahawks Deserving. Patriots Fraudulent? And More Super Bowl LX Takeaways!

Episode Date: February 9, 2026

Sheil is joined by The Ringer’s own Billy Gil and Diante Lee to break down the Seahawks' win over the Patriots in Super Bowl LX. They analyze all angles of the big game and discuss what the 29-13 result means for both teams and their standout players going forward.(00:00) Super Bowl LX takeaways(00:40) Seahawks defeat the Patriots 29-13(6:13) What does this mean for Sam Darnold’s career?(12:25) Are the Seahawks worthy champions?(19:29) Mike Macdonald’s résumé bump(21:24) Are the Patriots frauds?(33:21) Weird broadcast momentsThe Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.Host: Sheil KapadiaGuests: Billy Gil and Diante LeeProducer: Chris SuttonVideo: Stefano Sanchez and Jacob CornettProduction Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm your host, Shield Capadia, Super Bowl 60 in the books. The Seattle Seahawks are Super Bowl champions. We'll talk about it all. Was it a good game? Are they a worthy champ? Are the Patriots frauds?

And then we go in a bunch of different directions, as always. So we got Billy Gill, Deonti Lee, joining me. Let's take a break. We'll come back. We'll talk Super Bowl. All right, we are back on the Ringer NFL show. Shield Capadia here with my friends, Deontay Lee. And Billy Gill, the Seattle,

Seahawks are Super Bowl champions, 2913. I think the weirdest thing for me, guys, is that kind of what everybody expected to happen or what it felt like everybody expected to happen is what actually happened. I'm not saying nobody picked the Patriots, but we were all in San Francisco and you're talking to a lot of people and my friends were sending me, hey, everybody on the ringer picked the Seahawks. It's like, oh my, you know, I started thinking before the game, this is going to go poorly. But in the end, Deante was just like the beat down from the Seahawks, like many of their games have been, dominant defensive performance offense doing enough.

That's just kind of how the game played out. I agree. And I think it comes back to a lot of conversations that we've had on the show all year, right? Is that the teams who have had the advantage in the trenches ultimately have been the ones that have moved along in this process. New England was an outlier to that. They had kind of been skating by in the playoffs with some poor offensive performances, our offensive line really struggling in them having turnover issues. And they happen to run into the one team that was not going to give the ball right back to them.

Right. And ultimately, I think that the story of this game, while I think that Seattle was able to move the ball pretty effectively, just not punching it in into the end zone, I think ultimately what we're going to remember is a dominant defensive performance, especially up front. Are you going to remember anything from this game, Billy? Was this a good Super Bowl? Or was this like, you know what? This is one of those for like five years from now. Someone will be like, hey, Billy, do you remember who won the Super Bowl after the 20, 25 season? And you'll be like, no, I have no idea what happened in that game. So we were talking before the week about whether or not, like, this was a Super Bowl that didn't have a lot. of excitement headed into it, right? And through three quarters, it kind of was like that Jack, who, you know, worked with us here, came up and he said, this Super Bowl's actually living up to the expectations we had for it, which wasn't like a good thing at that point. It ended up being kind of exciting, right?

There were a couple touchdowns in the fourth quarter, but, yeah, I don't know. I mean, if you love defense, you could have loved this game, right? But was it boring? It was, yeah, it was a little boring. I mean, I'm a defensive guy and I think I was boring. I mean, the Seahawks defense was incredible. It doesn't mean that they weren't dominant. They weren't incredible they were.

But from an entertainment value, yeah, this isn't one that we'll be talking about years from now. Mike Vrable, is this supposed to be the stuff guy? Like, why was it not more aggressive coming out of halftime, down 12-0? It was like fourth and three, fourth and one, fourth and three, and they never went for it. They didn't do anything that signified like, hey, it's going to be hard today. We need to have a wrinkle. Wasn't a trick-play all game long, right? I kept calling it to Deontan.

What's wrong. I was about seven times. Like, this is the possession. You know, they're going to do a double pass. They didn't do anything. Fourth and one, they punted. Yeah, they kind of, early on, I understood it. Because he was like, all right, we're feeling each other out.

You know, we're not going to make the big mistake early that gets us down. But then in the second half, it's like, dude, there's like seven minutes left in the third quarter. You're going to have to score at some point. Yeah, Bray Bowl, yeah, for all the game management love he got. And I don't know that there's anything he could have done for them to actually win the game. But if I'm a Patriots fan, I would have been like, it would have been nice to try some more stuff in this game. Right. That doesn't mean you have to go full Ben Johnson and like every fourth down we get in the first half we're going to go for it. But it was pretty clear, I think, after the first quarter, that it was going to take a different level of urgency if they wanted to change the flow of the game.

All those fourth downs that Billy mentioned all around midfield or M plus territory where it would have been justifiable even if you had failed to at least take the shot, especially once you're chasing 12, right? Because now it's a two possession game. You're going to have to chase points one way or the other. But they kept playing as though the expectation was that they were going to outlast. The darnal turnovers coming. That's how they played for that, it seemed like, right? And that's not a strategy, right? Hope is not a strategy, not in the Super Bowl. And it kind of just seemed like the Patriots just kept hoping

that this game would play out the way the rest of the postseason have played out for them, that if we just sit back long enough, no matter what's going on with our offense, we'll force a turnover, we'll get the field position where we wanted to. And truthfully, I mean, they did have Seattle backed up for a good chunk of the game, which is really where the game kind of started to lose its juice because they were always inside their own 25s, their own 30,

and couldn't get much going. but I think that them waiting and waiting and waiting for Sam Darnold to ultimately hand them a win proved to be a mistake. And I think that what we really got out of this is that what we had seen for the first few weeks of this playoff run was true that Sam had done a much better job, I think, of avoiding turnovers. Now, there were some risky throws, especially early in this one. But I think that after kind of those jitters in the first quarter wore off, they really were able to handle business. And I think that Clint Kubiak did a good job of managing his quarterback throughout.

I don't think they had a turnover in the playoffs. I think I read, right? Yeah, no phone was lost. It's kind of crazy. It felt, yeah, you're right. It felt early on. It was like, oh, Sam's kind of feeling himself here. And the Patriots were just jumping every route. I'm like, oh, there's an interception coming.

It never came in Sam Darnold now, Billy. Just like a one-of-one career. I mean, it's crazy. I mean, the quarterbacks that were drafted in his draft class, and he beat all of them to not only get to a Super Bowl win. It's insanity. Like, this guy, you were saying it during the game. Has there been anyone that's had a bad career for that long?

The thing goes on and wins a Super Bowl. I don't think so. I can't think of one. I mean, normally, like, he had like a five-year sample. You know, sometimes a guy gets one year or two years, and then they get yanked, and you're like, well, give him another chance later. He had, like, a five-year sample that just statistically was one of the worst you would find from a starting quarterback.

And so I look at that and I go, well, I'm looking throughout history. And there's not a guy who's turned it around after that to even be, like, competent for a stretch of their career, let alone win a Super Bowl. it really is a one-of-one career. And, I mean, we've said it before. He seems like a normal guy. He seems like a nice guy. He's being interviewed after the game.

And he's like, hey, 12, let's here for the defense. You know, D.K. was getting all emotional in the theater. Like, look, even now he's pointing to the defense here. But I think he's right. I think if you root for Sam Darnold, you're like, I love this guy. 100%. I mean, totally deferential the entire way through, even after the NFC championship game where he was pretty clearly the driving force to get them to the Super Bowl.

He still was kind of given credit to the coaching staff, to the defense, to the running game throughout this whole process. And I think that that's why most people have kind of rallied around the idea that, like, hey, man, good for Sam. Because it hasn't been trying to reshape what happened in New York or in Carolina or what the meltdown was at the end of last season in Minnesota. It seems like he's done a pretty good job of just owning where his shortcomings have been. I think that he was never a quarterback that was any different than who he had always been.

And we just happened to see a longer arc than we typically see for quarterbacks who struggled the way that he did earlier in his career, get connected with the good coach, and now you get to see, I guess, the fruits of that labor. Only QB with no haters, Billy. What do you think? Do you don't think he has any haters? I mean, well, see, I was a darnal tater,

but I'm like, I was wrong, good for him. I'm not, I'm no longer a hater. I'm handing in my group chat, that might prove to be a counterfactual. Yeah, I think there's still some anti-darnels out there. What is their deal, though? They just don't like them? What's their argument?

Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of... Do anything? I mean, A, it doesn't really have to do much. You're playing with the great defense. You're playing with an offensive coordinator who is going to become a head coach, right? So you have a pretty good ecosystem around them. And people don't forget, man, like, people who are around at those times in New York.

And I mean, and I watched some of those games as well, right? He just looked lost, you know? I think that. People change, tell him, Deontay. Well, the problem is that San Dota really hasn't changed. I think he has. See, I mean, he had, come on, he has improved. I'm not saying that.

Improved, yes. Yes. Improved, yes. Change, no. And I think that that's a belief of mine, and I think of other people who are more critical of them, which is that quarterbacks progress,

they don't change, right? Like, if I were to tell you that Bryce Young, a half decade from now, would be in this exact same position where we have all these questions early in his career, if he's a long-term starter, he goes to another spot,

and then he ends up winning a championship. But he's still playing the way that he's playing. You just happen to be in the right ecosystem. Anybody who was anti-Brice Young now, if they were still that way then, I think you would understand, especially if you were playing similarly, because there were moments.

You mentioned it in the first quarter. I'm like, hey, man, good for you that you got that completion. Good for you for taking that shot. But I don't know if that's the way that you want to be playing in the Super Bowl. Exactly. 100%. 100%. And I think that that's always just kind of been inherent to his game.

Like I said, I mean, ecosystem matters so much. And I think that this past decade, we have learned a lot about exactly what kind of influence a healthy ecosystem can have for a quarterback. So this is what's going to happen, Billy. is that. I believe, because of the last two Super Bowls, this week, people are going to start saying,

you got to rethink how you build your football team. 100%. If you don't have my homes, if you don't have Josh Allen, you can still win a Super Bowl, build that elite defense, and then you know what? You got to get a quarterback who's good enough.

Not saying you certainly can't do it with anybody, but I don't think anyone right now looks at Jalen Hertz or Sam Darnel and is like those are, you know, whatever, top five, top eight quarterbacks in the NFL. What will your reaction be? You know, you're flying back to Miami tomorrow. You're at the airport bar.

and you see somebody on TV yelling that. Are you going to be like, you're right? Or you're like, shut up. What's your, what do you think? No, I started thinking when you were talking. Are you going to be asleep? Oh, see. I don't sleep on flights.

I'm not going to sleep. I cannot relate. The red eye. Cannot relate at all. Really? I'm out. Every single flight? What's your secret?

The flight from San Francisco to San Diego is only like an hour or 50 minutes. I'm out. Okay. Yeah, 100%. Oh, no, I'm an aisle seat guy. Yeah, same. Neck pillow? Nope, no neck pillow.

You're just. No, recline? No ambient. Music, none of that. What do the kids call it, Raw Dog in a flight? I'm able to sleep through that. I'm able to sleep through that.

How do you sleep every night? Are you a good sleeper as it is? Absolutely. Wow. What's your secret? I don't think I have one, man. Get very tired, have children. Oh.

Work cold cold jobs and be very tired at the end of the night. That's been a working formula for me. All right. So who's the next quarterback that just gets plugged into the perfect ecosystem? Well, when he said Bryce Young, I mean, that is a pretty good one. We're Bryce guys. I can see five years from now us having that conversation about Bryce Young. Really?

Yeah, I think so. Five years? Let's take it off of Bryce Young, right? Because there are just, there are certain things physically that will leave people to have questions about what it would even look like for him to be a championship level quarterback. Let's go with somebody who might be similar, like a Kyler Murray, right? Could Kyle and Murray land in an ecosystem where two, three years from now

we're looking at him in an NFC championship game or a Super Bowl and saying, wow, this guy might actually do it. See, I feel like Young has more of the Darnold and Tangibles where like no one said to writing his contract the thing about you have to watch film type of. I feel like Darnold had that. kind of thing. I think Young has that type of thing. I feel like Murray, now that he's probably going to get traded this off season,

maybe we'll see a second version, but it's kind of crazy to say. Murray is much more talented than Bryce Young. Yet if you told me, like, who do I think it's more likely to happen to? I feel like I would choose Bryce Young. Well, Kyler Murray also has like a jet stop on his journey for sure, right? And he's not going to do it in New York. So he's going to have to have that jet stop and then somewhere else. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I don't know. I'm looking through. I don't know who the next next guy would be. Trevor Lawrence has already kind of shed, he's already kind of on it. So that's different. And he won a playoff game.

Daniel Jones might be the next best option for that. Coming off the Achilles, I feel like this was his chance at that. I don't know if it's still going to happen for it. Maybe it will. Sorry, Colts fans. You know, I don't know.

But yeah, I'm looking at the other ones. I don't see another obvious one here. What about a Tua situation? No, come on. He's serious, Billy. People are willing to. to hear it on Bryce Young, not on to the cheese.

I feel like too, like Daniel was his guy. You know what I mean? It's not going to get better for him. He already had the good situation. That's the thing. You know, you got to come out of the bad situation to a good situation where I guess you could, yeah. Yeah, I guess Daniel Jones and Bryce Young

might be the only two that would check those boxes. Those are two to keep it on. This Seahawks team, now this whole season we've been like, this is such a weird season. Yeah. You know, it's just like, is there a great team? How many great teams are there? Who's going to win it?

I do think they are definitely. worthy champ though. There was this weird thing where all the advanced stats, DVOA is like, this is the sixth best team of the last 50 years or something. You're like,

they feel good. I don't know that they feel that good, but now you look at it, they're 17 and 3 over 20 games. Yeah. They lost three games by a total of nine points. They did not lose a game by more than four points

all season long. Like, it's just any way you look at it statistically, reasonably resume, yeah. They do have a Super Bowl resume, right? Do we put that to sleep? that they are a great team, even though it's a weird season?

Or are you like, well, not so fast? I would say, I would say they're a great team. They're a great team. I would be really hesitant to put them in any conversation, really like the best teams we've seen over the last decade and a half, let alone you start talking about the last 30 plus years, right? And it's not a knock on what they've accomplished. We just happened to have seen.

Who cares? They want, you know? Exactly. You know, but we've just seen some incredible single seasons throughout, over the last two decades or so. So yeah, no, not in that conversation for me quite yet. If they hold this group together and they're able to make a back-to-back run, then we would have that conversation.

Like, is this the most unlikely, you know, hot streak that you could have imagined in the NFL? But all time, no. Was there any hifty team that could have actually challenged them? Good question. The best probably would have been a healthy Denver. I think a healthy Denver could have challenged them. Healthy Denver, interesting. Not Josh Allen going?

No, I don't think. I don't think that. You don't think so? I don't know how that defense would have fared against the run game that we saw from Seattle come playoff time. See, I look at it, I feel like it would be more like, like the Rams basically were the team that pushed them the farthest. And so if you have a great offense and can put up points against them, at least you're going to be in the game. So I kind of feel like Buffalo, maybe. I don't know.

Maybe it's that Thursday night game against Houston that is just like sticking out too much in my head when you think about similar defense. I mean, and obviously Josh Allen was awesome in the wildcard round against Jacksonville. I think turnovers aside was actually had a very reminiscent game to the one that we talked about around that time last year between Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen. You get those ugly early turnovers and then it ultimately ends up sinking your playoff chances. But I just don't think that that Buffalo team was complete enough to deal with what we saw from Seattle, knowing that the best offense this season, Los Angeles, took basically two A plus plus games from their quarterback and their run game to be able to hold, you know, be able to hold serve against them for one game and then take them to the end in the others. I don't think there's anybody in the AFC that could have reached that level to play with them. They didn't make it as a playoffs, but Philip Rivers Colts played them tough.

They only lost by two. What a weird game that was. Yeah. Yeah. And that was his first game back. That was his first game. It was bubble screen central. Yeah.

Definitely bubble screen and inside zone central in that game. Kept a minute. Yeah. Philip Rivers. You know? What if he was in central? One last ride. I think the bar.

Who are the people who are just like, we're not sleeping tonight because of the result? you. We talked about this before. Jets fans. I think Jets fans are fine. You gotta be fine. And Billy, after that, I don't know if I forwarded the emails. We got, we got emails from Jets fans who were like, no, we actually are rooting for Sam. They said, they said if you go on Reddit, Jets Reddit, the only thing that everybody agrees about is that they were rooting for Sam Darnold in playoffs. It's a weird phenomenon, just because he's like a nice guy and they're like, our organization's dysfunctional. Good for him. Like, either he never was like, get me out of New York or anything. I mean, three stops after you're allowed to be happy, right? If you had gone to Carolina and you're making a run to like the NFC championship game, people might be a little bit more salty.

And to the point of being a relative, like a low profile guy, in spite of how high he was drafted and how much attention he had garnered from getting the starting his career in New York, I'm not surprised at Jets fans. Rooting seems strong. I think indifferent to the success will probably be a little bit more accurate. I'm on Jets. I'm on Jets right now. There's people wearing Sam Jarno jerseys watching the games.

saying, let's go Sam. They were rooting for him tonight. Now, do you think that's a good representation of fans on Reddit? I think they just hate Woody Johnson. If I'm going to go back as they should. Yeah, I think that's right. Good for them. This might be like a new segment.

Billy checks Reddit. Yeah. It's a dangerous game. Dangerous game. That's a dangerous game. You know what? I think like 20 years from now, Sean McVeigh is going to be like that year 2025.

Yeah. I feel like. We had a great team. And now it's two years in a row where he's looking at it going like one play goes differently. He could have been playing in the Super Bowl. I think that Rams team last year beats the Chiefs in the Super Bowl. And I think the Rams team beats this Patriots team in the Super Bowl. Like we could be talking about him as a three-time Super Bowl champ without adjusting that much.

This isn't one that like, hey, five or six plays go differently. It's kind of like one play at the end of that Eagles game. And then the one play where DeMarcus Lawrence peels off. against the Seahawks. Like, I mean, McVeigh and Stafford, like, no, look at what the Seahawks did to everybody else. And they were just like, we're cooking this defense. We're going to go up and down the field on them. And they have nothing to show for it.

Hell, I mean, if you win that Thursday night game towards the end of the season, the NFC championship game is being hosted, you know, at SoFi Stadium. And that might have been, that might have been what ultimately swung the game. So I think to, to your point, yeah, they're both probably going to be 20 years down the line, both wearing gold jackets, watching their daughters, you know, all around or whatever. And they're going to be saying, man, can you know, And can you imagine what this would have been like if we had just finished the deal against this thing? We might have been multiple, multiple time champions.

Has an owner ever gone out on top like this? Like, we just won the championship and now we're selling. Is that what the Celtics did or is that the year after? Yes, I think that that was right after that. Is this a new thing? Win the title and sell your team. Well, and you're also losing your OC, so you're going to be kind of a little bit down there. And now's time to get off.

So high, you know. I don't know. Is he going to be that hard to replace Clint Coe? He did an excellent job. Oh, this is the take. Let me. Come on. Mike McDonald is the guy who, I mean, that is that.

We have watched it. I think Clint Kubiak did a great job. I don't think it's like the hardest guy to replace, I would say, in terms of, like, is he, is he certainly not among the top five offensive play callers to replace? I think. Probably not top, maybe not top 10. Maybe top 10. I will say top 10.

Okay. I will say top 10. And so the point of replacing offensive coordinators, I'm sure we can pull up your Philly special email and see a lot of people with a lot of thoughts about what the experience can be like when you have to replace your championship winning offensive coordinator. That's true. Okay. After a Super Bowl, is it too soon to ask Drake May fraud?

Okay. What happened? Great T's. Take a break. We come back. I do think, again, when you're in the airport tomorrow, you look at the TVs. Oh, that's... Oh, it's all over first.

That's beyond. Where are the Patriots all along? So let's take a break and come back? Maybe not an unreasonable question. All right. We're back on the ringer NFL show. Let's talk about, wait, but real quick, before the Patriots,

Mike McDonald, we just talked about. And I feel like he already has the resume of one of the great defensive coaches. Like, he just went to a, he coached a great defense in Baltimore, engineered it, and then he left, became a head coach,

and within two years, coached a great defense that won a Super Bowl. Like, even if he retired now, that's an incredible resume. I have my ideas. This is when he started those games. I want to go to TV.

No, I want to go, oh, I think I'm tired of coaching. I'm going to go to TV. I think he's more of a podcast. guy, but not sports podcasts. No, he has no intention of retiring at all.

He's just going to say that to get more projects. Yeah, if you listen to Mike McDonald's talk, that is a sicko. Okay, it is a coaching sicko. If there's one thing he's not going to do, is retire. I think you're going to have to pry this job.

Maybe he's behind the scenes on podcast. I think he's a listener. You got to keep an eye on the live stream. See if he's in the comment section. Yeah, we got room for you. Absolutely. But, yeah, this is, I mean, he has a chance.

Now, he's so young and he just started that it's crazy to say, but he has a chance to build up a Hall of Fame resume as a defensive coach. I mean, you'd have to say the last one we had like this that came from a great,

putting together a great defense in one spot becoming a head coach and becoming a champion is Tony Dunjee, I guess. Probably be the next closest. And I mean, that took a while. And you're tied to Peyton Manning at that point. So obviously, you know,

the offense ends up, I think, carrying the brunt of the labor, especially when you look at some of the ways that the coach struggled at that time. Levy Smith didn't reach these heights. If they would have won with Chicago, that probably would have been the next best thing. Is a defensive-minded guy getting control of an organization and being able to push them to a championship level? But no, I don't think that – I can't think of the last time we've had a guy from a defensive background reached these heights,

especially coming out of the Brady-Manning, Breeze, et cetera, et cetera, era. It definitely has been a while. All right, so are the Patriots frauds, Billy? Wait, were you saying is Drake May a fraud or are the Patriots frauds? We can do both if you want. All right. Where do you want to start? I mean, the Patriots, yeah, the South schedule.

We were saying it all season. And then here we go. Super Bowl time. They didn't look great. At any point in that time, did you think the Patriots were in the game? No. Unless there was like a flute, like a special team's fun. Like, I felt like it needed that kind of play for the makeup.

They actually did a decent, like, bend don't break. 100. Right. For the first. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we were talking, well, not seriously. But we were having a conversation.

Should we be considered? during the kicker for the MVP of this game because he's the only only only put up points. He set a record five field as in a Super Bowl never been done before, 29 points. Honestly, the punter was more, the Dixon was more impressive. Do you see those punts?

He was just feeling himself on that last one. A little quick, little liner? Absolutely. I need a little bit more character for our punters when they're out there continuing to wins. I mean, he was jacked. He's probably hated by other punters, right? Definitely, he would think.

Yeah, he listened to Chris Long. I think that other punters probably don't like him because of what a great job he was doing, because now that becomes the norm in punting, right? As it should be. Right. We were talking about this. One job.

He had the great punner early. And you went, oh my God, it's incredible. It's like, this is your job. Shouldn't you be able to do this almost every time? I don't understand. I'm asking. As a one coach here, I'm going to have stained. You're abstaining?

I'm abstaining on this one. I'm abstaining on this one. Because I don't think I have any healthy feedback. He has to coach a punner. He can't think, you know? Now of his, now of his kid he's coaching, you know, is a punter and be like, you, oh, now the guy's going to get all nervous and be like, Coach, Coach, Coach Lee, what are they called, Coach D Lee?

Coach Lee expects me to just. What are you teaching your punters? I don't really do anything else. Exactly. No. You should be, yeah, how about punting specialist, Billy Gil? I don't know how to punt, but I mean, I feel like you do. You can figure it out.

You know what, thank you, yeah. There you go. I can give us some remote work. Yeah. I will take that. I would definitely take that. All right, so are the Patriots frauds? Now, I think that there's certainly a case that they beat up on a soft schedule all season long,

and then they got to face Jared Stidham in the AFC championship game, and then they got to the Super Bowl, and they kind of looked like they didn't belong for most of the game. But I will also say it was a weird season, and you can only play the teams in front of you. But I do think the people who think the Patriots are frauds do have some ammo here, Deontay. I wouldn't say they're fraud. I'd say that today they were the same team. They had been throughout the entire playoff run, which is... The offense disappeared during the playoff run.

It was an awful offense. Terrible. All postseason. Yeah. They played four straight games against four good defenses, and the defenses they played against kick their asses in all four of them. They just happened to force enough turnovers and play well enough with their defense to be able to get by.

Like I said, this was the one team that was not going to handle the game that had enough explosiveness and was consistent enough, not hampered by weather conditions, or anything like that to be able to finish the deal. But New England looked like the same team that they've been for the last month, which is a team that can win a game if you make mistakes. But if you hold on to the ball, if you're smart with the ball

and your defense plays well, they were always going to be vulnerable and susceptible to a game like this. The fraud question probably isn't fair, and I'm the one that asked it. But here's the thing. Here's the thing about them and about Drake May, right? Did they blow their opportunity? I think one argument in their favor is, is who's the power in the AFC next season?

I mean, you don't necessarily see them and say they're going to come back to the Super Bowl next year, right? But who's the one that's going to be in their way? I think it's not just one. It's the fact that there's going to be a group that was not in there this year that they'll have to play. They didn't have to play Josh Allen. They didn't have to play Patrick Mohamed. They didn't have to play Lamar Jackson. They didn't have to play Joe Burrow.

I know the Chargers never win a playoff game, but I think they're going to be better. Josh Allen had to beat Trevor. So you didn't have to see that Jacksonville team. It was as hot as any at the end of the year. You know, because there is always this thing when you have a young team or a young quarterback who gets there sooner, you always are like, oh, well, they'll be back.

And as the broadcast pointed out, much to Billy Shagrin, my Dolphins fan, he's like, you know, they're like, or will it be like Dan Marino? He's like, why do they have to mention that every time? Torrico was just looking or cons or whoever was was just looking to take that shot for some reason. It's even personal almost, you know? But it is a good point, I feel like.

There's no guarantee. they might never make, might never make a Super Bowl again. It should have been to the Lions a couple years ago, right? And Dan Campbell was crying after the game. He's like, that might have been our window. And we're like, come on, Dan, stop being ridiculous. And he was right. I mean, he was right.

That was the closest they got. Now, the case for them, Deonti, if you're a Patriots fan, you'll listen to this and be like, shut up. You're wrong. Is that maybe, because we have to get to the heart of what happened to them in the playoffs. So the theories are Drake May's shoulder was hurt way more than they were letting on and we're going to find out.

That's coming out. By the time you listen. They're going to be like he had 17 surgeries on his shoulder an hour after the game and we'll be staying in San Francisco for the next six months because he can't fly. He battled through it. Unbelievable performance. That's one. It could be that it was a combination of different things, weather in one game, opponent in this game. AFC championship.

It was just that, hey, we don't have, we don't want to give the game away. So we're going to play this certain style. It could be that. It could be that they beat up on an easy schedule, regular season. You face tougher teams and now all of a sudden your offense isn't as good. But here's the one I actually think it might be, is that the deficiencies around Drake May caught up to them in a real way where it was like before the season, I'm looking at the O line and the wide receivers going like,

you know, I'd like Drake May, but this is going to be still be very hard for them to succeed with this. And he was able to overcome that for a while because of those other factors, but eventually it catches up to you. So I feel like they have an offseason where we could look at this team in week one of next season and be like, wow, Drake May is in a way better spot. now than he was even in the Super Bowl. I think that's true. I think that when you look at, especially up front,

they had two rookies playing side by side in the Super Bowl in Jared Wilson and Will Campbell. And I mean, those two got roundly beat throughout the playoffs and were clearly being targeted throughout today's action in the Super Bowl. I think you can't assume that the trajectory is always just going to be upward, right? That's not how this works in the sport or in any sport. Especially for losers of the Super Bowl, the next year. Exactly. You can only get, there's only one condition.

that would be better than where you were just at. Right. But I think you would say, Trevionn Henderson, Will Campbell, Jared Wilson, a second year quarterback, maybe you can address some other things with the receiver. A.J. Brown. Possibly? I mean, possibly. I feel like that could happen sooner rather than later.

It could be A.J. Brown. It might not have to be A.J. Brown. What if it's Alec Pierce plus another receiver instead of the whatever currency is going to take for you to go acquire a player like A.J. Brown. A. Rishid Shahee. Oh, Rashid Shaheed. Oh, I thought you'd say, how about both? Why not?

You know? Why not? A real quarterback on a rookie contract, right? Did it look like the moment was too big for him today? Rashid Shaheed? No, no. Oh, okay, Drake May. Yeah, Drake May.

He seemed nervous. I mean, he seemed to be rushing things, but it could also be, it didn't want to keep getting destroyed, you know? I think he was just getting crushed. Yeah. I honestly just think he was getting crushed. Yeah, it wasn't like, even the place where he wasn't getting crushed, he wasn't good. But as we've seen with quarterbacks, when you get hit, it has like a cumulative effect where all of a sudden he's rushing throws, he's off. he's off target.

He really has looked like a different guy the last month. And even during the season, he had like the best numbers in the NFL when he was pressured. So again, it was like it wasn't that he wasn't getting pressured. It was like when he is getting pressured, he's Superman. And then if you look at the playoffs,

he's turned into like the worst quarterback in the NFL when pressure. So this isn't Super Bowl related. But it's probably good that he didn't win the MVP, right? Because it would have been bad. If the MVP, he comes out, he has that stinker of a game, I'm like, oh, that would have been rough.

Now, can we talk about the fact that Justin Herbert, got an MVP vote. And that's what costs in the MVP. I can't do this. That's crazy. I can't do this. I can't do this.

Sam Monson, we are PFF buddies. I always got your back. Okay. If nobody else got you, I got you. Well, listen, he at least said who he voted for. Yeah. You know, he gave the reasoning. I don't see the reasoning for Justin Herbert.

This is, to me, his hipster culture has gone too far in the NFL. Only because I understand Justin Herbert had bad circumstances, but if I'm a Patriots fan, I'm like, Drake May had bad circumstances too. and he was like the best quarterback in the league statistically. And Justin Herbert was what, like 21st? So to me it's like if he had a great, like I would, I think that's a best quarterback than.

Okay, see, no, that's a bracer. No, that's a bracer for me. No. But it's like at least I need somebody whose numbers are at a certain spot where it's like if you've replaced him with somebody else. Like if he was like the 10th best quarterback, then I could be like, all right, he was 10th in EPA for play. And if you put someone else in there, it would have been 25th.

But when you're 21st, there's like not, that, you know, you're not that much further down you can go. But people are free to vote for who they want to. Yeah. 100%. I think that all of this. Don't go overboard. You know, we're not telling you to target.

Everything with the MVP has been overblown, in my opinion. That rogue vote saved us embarrassment in the Super Bowl, right? Yeah. You could have been the MVP and then look at this. That actually would have looked. Yeah, because if Drake May would have won it and then we just saw Stafford face the Seahawks and then we just saw Drake May face the Seahawks. Yeah.

That probably wouldn't have been great. I mean. So Sam Monson here, one of the winners of the Super Bowl. He foresaw this coming months ago. I mean, to your original question about like, is this, was this too soon, will they be back? Were they frauds for not being able to come through in this moment? As we're talking, the thing I just keep thinking about is Drake May's hometown team, the Carolina Panthers, who were here, who were in that stadium a decade ago, you know,

and came up short and everybody thought, hey, Cam Newton in his prime, just won an MVP. Luke Keekley already looked like a Hall of Fame level. player. They had all this defensive talent. They were on the upswing at that point in time as a franchise, and they didn't come back. And a lot of that is because the NFC at that time had so many great quarterbacks. You're still talking about Drew Breeze and Aaron Rogers, right? You had Carson Palmer, who had played really well in Arizona at that time. It's entirely possible that, yes, we see the Patriots regularly in the playoffs for the next half decade, and it just doesn't matter because they end up on the road playing Baltimore or playing Buffalo or playing Kansas City or Cincinnati,

It can swing just that quickly. Well, I mean, it's early in his career, right? But that's kind of where Joe Burroughs at, too. Absolutely. He made the Super Bowl right away. Hasn't gotten close since. I mean, he still has plenty of career left, but he hasn't gotten close to being back to the Super Bowl. It's hard.

It's hard to get to. Yeah, it turns out it's hard to make it to the same. A lot of stuff has to go your way. You know, you have to, like, get the schedule. You have to pile up the winds. You have to be a little. Stay healthy. Stay healthy is the biggest one. I mean, these quarterbacks, it's like, you look at some of them.

And it's like, unless you're like, Josh Allen, Right. Injuries are a part of almost every season. It's just a matter of how bad it's it. Can you play through it? Did you get injured in September? Or did you suffer that devastating injury in December? Now you look like a different guy in the playoffs.

So I like Drake. I like Drake May a lot. I'm on the record. I like Drake May. None of this is a poor reflection on Drake, man. But yeah, put that on the record. But, yeah, there are no guarantees. I mean, this was bad.

So among 33 quarterbacks who played at least three playoff games in a postseason, the last 10 years, he ranks 47th out of 52 starters in EPA for past. Like, it's kind of one of the worst. In terms of quarterbacks whose teams won, it's almost, it's like one of the worst quarterback performances. Yes, yes, thank you. Said much better. See, this is why you need help from your friends because I don't know what I was saying.

I couldn't explain it. And then Deontay just with the one-liner there. Hey, man. Co-pilot. A lot of weird broadcast moments. There was Collinsworth where, for whatever. reason they were talking about the onside kick. And he said, I'll never forget where I was.

I was at the concession stand. It's like, wait, what? And then in one of the Drake May, so in Drake May's interception in the middle of the field, they went to Chris Collinsworth for analysis. And he said, and I quote, eh, I got nothing for you here. Just because how bad the pass was.

Like, the broadcasting was awesome today. They are great. Honestly, just a very fun listen. It was very much like, this is our last game this year. Yeah. They had that officiating thing where you kind of put it out right before they threw it over to their official in studio. And he was like, yeah, that was a wrong call. You know what?

They did a great job because they all the – I've ripped the officiating experts all the time on here. 100%. Some of them, to mention names, where's my – you know who I'm talking about? I think it's my camera. I don't know if I did that right or not. But some of them are like, you know, it's just like, this is my chance to shine. And they talk for eight minutes and you have no idea. So Tariko, what he did was, it was the catch.

Cooper Cup, catch on the first possession. And he just goes, Terry says that would have been a catch. Thank you. We just solved the officiating expert thing. We actually don't need to hear from them. We just need them to tell the broadcast, was it the right call or the wrong call? So they did a nice job there. But the concession thing had me rolling.

That one, we need to spend another minute because they're talking about if Thomas Morstead, onside kick, Saints, Colts. I mean, iconic. Literally one of the greatest Super Bowl moments ever. Start out the second half with that. And Chris Collinsworth, you know, they're like, oh, yeah, everyone remembers where they were for that. And Chris Collinsworth just goes, I was at the concessions then. And Dorico just moved on to the next thing.

I mean, I don't understand. And you're playing a grenade in your play-by-play guy's lap. What is he supposed to do with that? That was very, that was very Al Michaels of Chris Collinsworth. I'm not here to tell NBC content social. media what to do. But I would like to learn more about. So he wasn't calling the game, I presume?

He couldn't have been because that was a CBS. Okay. So he's there as a fan, presumably, or media. I guess he could have been media. Long halftime lines, I guess. No, but, I mean, half time is so extended. Why was there a musical act? Yeah, why was he in a concession stand with like the commoners?

Did he mean the media press box thing? I don't know. Maybe. Imagine just going to a game and Chris Collinsworth is getting to gungly. You know, he's a tall. dude, he's a big dude. Just seeing gangly Chris Collins.

I gotta tell you. Trying to grab a hot dog's looking. Trying to grab a can of Miller Light and a hot dog, you know? I uncovered a new football strategy today that I floated by you very briefly and you said, tell me no more. Let's talk about this later. I actually forget what it was. So I discovered kind of like a glitch in football and in the NFL that can be kind of exploited by a smart coach down the road.

So we saw or we didn't see because they intentionally didn't show us this situation there was a streaker on the field and alleged streaker they were just no sure but a streak was on the field and it delayed the game a good like three, four minutes. Why can football teams not employ people

to go and streak on the field on their behalf should they be out of timeout? You can't like have it be known this is the team's official streaker right? But like you have like a guy like a big Dom or someone and he goes out there, you know, for the Eagles. And he tells some of his friends, hey, you know what, we're going to post bail. I know some of the cops in the city. This will get expunge.

Not a big deal. Like it's not really going to affect you long term. But why don't you have like two or three people in the stands in a game like the Super Bowl? So if you run out, you're down by five under two minutes left. You're out of timeouts. You can't stop the clock, right? Yeah. You're driving.

You can't stop the clock. boom, someone runs on the field. They have to stop the game. And they're not going to know that this person's attached to you. Why has no one done this? Honestly, you've had many great ideas, but this is the best. I'm telling you this is peak. Because especially, you know, I was thinking about it because this is the Super Bowl.

This was actually the hardest situation because you're at a neutral site. Yeah. There's so much security. If you can pull it out, if a streakier can get on the field here. That's a hell of an achievement. That's why you have two or three, though, because then you can kind of attack from different fronts. You know what? This brings up a great follow-up question.

How far down on your friends list do you have to go to find a handful of people? How many knows are you getting before you collect your three streakers? Because as he was describing it, let's say it's Lincoln Financial Field. Let's say it is Big Dom. You have to identify the people ahead of time, right? All right, there's three people, get them good seats here. Put him in the little family and friends section. Go up to the event staff person.

Hey, just so you know, those three people. Have the gate a little jar? You look at Big Dom and it's like a third base code. Like when he goes like this. Yeah. There has to be a sign. There has to be a side. And you're on.

And then they're on the field. And forget bail. Like they're just, this is all handled under the table. I mean, you're at home. You can do whatever you want. Well, no, you have to, no. I think you have to carry. Here's the thing.

There has to be like a degree of separation, right? Because this, like, if this were to ever happen and this person is found out to be like paid and like arranged by the team, like, this would probably blow the Connor Stallions thing out of the water. I mean, Paul, Tori would have a. Field Daylorers. Yeah, but like... This should be the greatest story.

I feel like you could get this. There will be people willing to do this. Here's the deal. This has to be a save it for the right moment thing. Yeah. You can't do this three times in the season. No. This is like home playoff game.

A lot on the line. I think you do this for the Super Bowl. I like this. I think because... Here's a thing. If you're the head coach, you have to be 100% separated from this situation. Because this would be horrible ramifications. for you if it's found out that you orchestrated this, right?

But you need to have someone there and you can only really probably pull it out once. I guess if you pull it off the first time, this is a problem with like a heist, right? Like heist movies. There's always one more job. There's always one more job. Once you pull it off, you get a little greedy and you always go one too far. Listen, there are people dying to work for NFL franchises. You know, there's like a quality control coach.

There's an intern. There are a low level. The coach doesn't even have to know about this, honestly. except, you know, you have one conversation at one time and then say, you don't need to know anything about it, but we got you. Don't worry about it. And then you have someone else handle it. I think it's a great idea.

I would like to see if anybody. The one thing I will say is to learn from the streaker in today's game because he did an excellent job of giving his body up. Yeah. I thought. Oh, I didn't see it. You've seen footage? You must have had.

Where was the footage? You just said they didn't show on the broadcast. You guys are searching this somewhere and don't send it to me? Yeah. Whoever this guy is, he must have had a history as a quarterback. Because we know what I say like textbook slide as Kyle Williams is coming in. And it felt like. Kyle Williams was going out.

Yes. Yeah. It almost felt like the slide was so good. It like triggered an automatic response to Kyle Williams because he immediately backed off. Like, hey man, he gave his body up. If I made contact with this guy's 15 yards, it's an automatic first down. You know, even the security seemed like they kind of played it a little easy on him. He got lucky.

He gave his body up. He didn't have the aggressive security guards who wanted to come in and just take a free swing. So he's feeling good tomorrow when he wakes up. Yeah, he might have felt feeling good. Not as bad as the other ones. Oh, 100%. Okay. You know, Toriko did, I always laugh when the announcers feel like they have to get to a certain outrage level.

Yes. When that happens. Terrico actually didn't do that. Another feather in his cap. He just called him a rocket scientist. Yeah. Yeah. His head was already in Milan, you know?

He's like, I'm headed to the Olympics. I don't care. I got to call Lindsey Vaughn's injury later. Crazy. All right. One more break. Come back. Get to some leftovers here.

And I'll wrap up our coverage of Super Bowl 60. All right, we are back here on the ringer NFL Shire. We covered Seahawks. You had a case for another MVP over Kenneth Walker, Deont, that I thought was interesting. I did. I had Devin Witherspoon. I think ultimately statistically, when his sack was ruled as an interception by Echin and Wosu, that actually ended up. I heard him, yeah.

You could just kind of have to have the counting numbers as a defensive guy, right? The kind of how Malcolm Smith was able to get it, getting the fumble recovery, gets the interception that he takes back to the house against the Broncos. Seahawks played them in 2013 in New York. But I thought that, at least defensively, he was the most valuable player on the field. Like, I think I tweeted out that it was a Ronde-Barber-esque performance, right? Like, I think about all the times that he was used as a Blitzer, he had two TFLs in this game. We mentioned the sacks.

He ended up getting a pass breakup as well. And it's very similar, I think, too, when you and I were in the press box last year in New Orleans, watching Cooper DeGene, and I was just watching on a snap-by-snap basis. And I'm like, you cannot convince me that this isn't the best for. football player on the field right now. That's kind of how Devin Witherspoon looked. Even though he didn't win MVP ultimately, I think that he had about as big of an impact

as any singular player did in this game. It was a great argument when Deonti was making it in real time. And speaking to Torego, he was like, oh, if Kenneth Walker, if they would have let that run go without the holding, he's like, that could have been an MVP decider. It's like deciding over who. He didn't mention it. It's probably thinking like Deontze was Jason Myers. Jason Myers. I can't. No one wanted.

No one wanted it. So you could go online. and vote? I don't know who officially decided. I didn't know that until you told me. Yeah, they said on the on the screen. But does it matter? Does it matter? I don't know if that matters. That's what I was wondering too. I don't know if that matters. Who officially votes for the MVP of the Super Bowl? I think that there's a, I think there's a select panel. Is it like a like the thing where it's like, oh, you got one vote out of, you know, four votes or whatever. Probably not.

But you could go online, you at like NFL.com slash MVP or whatever. No free ads. Come on. Well, that wasn't. Whatever. It doesn't matter. Jason Myers wasn't even an option. And at the time he was the only one had scored any points. Rightfully so. No specialist get to win. No specialist get to win Super Bowl MVP. What if you would have just given it to Seahawks special teams? That's cowardly too.

Between the punter and the kicker. That's cowardly. They were carrying the Seahawks. Cowardly. What do you mean? Seahawks Special Teams is the MVP. The Grammy's just passed by. Imagine if they had given a co-album of the year. No, that's cowardly. I feel like it's happened.

It's probably it's happening. It was cowardly every time that it has. did love those dicks and punts, though. That's what I'm saying. He put on a clinic. How did he do that? He put on a clinic. Kevin O'Connell, happiest man. Is he, all right, well, I don't know.

Is he happiest or most upset? Because there's two sides of it. Happiest because he's like, only you saying, I engineered this ouster of our GM. Now look, if I would have had Sam Donald, we would have been playing in the Super Bowl, or is he actually upset because he's like, if we would have had Sam Donald.

We could have been in the Super Bowl. You got to be upset. You have to be upset. It's not just that. This guy wins a Super Bowl, and his backup went 8 and 1 to start the year, or whatever the case may have been and had the most efficient offense before he ended up tearing his Achilles. So I do think that you're kicking yourself.

Even if the GM who kind of helped with orchestrating this roster is no longer there, you have to be thinking either one of those two guys on this offense. And that might have been us. I wonder if teams will do crazy stuff this offseason being like, We're going to build a great defense and we're going to go get this quarterback and we're going to win next year. Like we were saying, that's going to be like a talking point this week, but I actually wonder if NFL teams are going to do that. Let's say you're Miami or you're Arizona. You have ties to Green Bay, Malik Willis's deals coming up.

He'll be a free agent. Yeah. What if you're Michael Flore or you're Jeff Halfley and you say, you go get me Malik Willis and give me two years to go draft up a defense? You need the coach, though, I think. You need the defensive coach. I don't disagree with that. I don't disagree. So it would have to kind of be a Jeff Hathley

and then I guess you're still dealing with the AFC. The Vikings could talk themselves into it, for sure. I think so. You know, now they would have to get good enough quarterback play, but they could talk themselves into fielding a deal. The Texans are probably like, man, are we that far away? You know, we had a great defense.

The answer is probably no. You have three turnovers instead of five in the division around, and they might have been hoisted a Lombardi trophy. All right. So Texans are feeling pretty good. There's not good free agent quarterbacks. Broncos. There's Daniel Jones, but he's coming up an injury.

Aaron Rogers, Russell Wilson, Marcus Marriota, Zach Wilson. Yeah. Zach Wilson is going to be in the chance. No. Crazy? It's worse than two earlier. No, but Kyler Murray's probably going to get traded.

That's probably the big dominoa fall. Yeah, Kirk Cousins is going to get released. I don't know if you love it. Yeah, I'm more interested. Who has the great, who can build up the great defense where maybe the quarterback doesn't have to be perfect? Will say. Minnesota.

Minnesota. Flacco's out there. One last ride for Joe Flacco. Maybe. Let's say. All right. Krishing and Dallas, great game. I'm just getting to my leftovers here.

He was awesome. Oh my gosh. Probably, I mean, outside of Devin'Owether's one of my favorite defensive player to watch today. Probably should have had two interceptions, frankly, but played excellently throughout the game. Riley Mills, is it okay to admit that I work in football content? And when he, this guy named Riley Mills, I think that his name, had a sack.

I was like, I don't know who that is. Is that okay or should we cut that out? I think everybody should be allowed like three to five per roster. I mean, I was saying, we were talking, we were sitting next to Danny Kelly and I looked over and I was like, isn't it like the ninth defensive lineman in your rotation? Like, why would any reasonable person be asked to know who this rookie defensive tackle is? Yeah, I had no idea. All right.

Anything else you guys need to get off your chest? How are you feeling? Billy, you look like your, D. Are you just Googling stuff? What are you looking up? No, I'm going through the notes. I was disappointed by the commercials this year. Super Bowl commercials.

Can I be honest? I don't... All right, sorry, you tell me. Why were you disappointed? There was none. There's no, like, memorable, like, great commercials. I wrote down, like, three or four commercials. There was a Coinbase commercial where it was just karaoke of Backstreet Boys.

I wanted that way. There were two Backstreet Boys commercials, I believe. There was a liquid IV commercial with singing toilets, and take a look at me and now encourage you to look at your pee, to see if you were dehydrated to take liquid IV. Okay. And then Benton, Boone and Benston. over in an Instacart commercial

where Benson Boone was doing his flips that he does when he sings all the time and then Ben Stiller was trying to do that and he was falling. I'm totally indifferent. I just feel so washed and like I can't speak about any topics because these companies come up

and I don't know what that is. I don't know what they do. I've heard about that one before but I don't know what it is. His name is Billy Gill. His name is Deontay Lee. Thanks to everybody for listening all season.

Last football game. Are you sad? No. I'm with you. I'm like, I'm good. I had my fill. It was a fun season, but I can not fine with a little break. I'm a completionist, man.

Once it's done, I'm totally fine. You guys are front office. I'm going to say, oh, look at my abacus and all this time. I can do. Salary caps. It's time to restructure some deals on over the caps. I can't wait for Aaron Chats. This new book to come out.

Fake trades, NBA playoffs. Yes, sir. March madness, some golf majors. Spring training. You care about the draft? You don't care about the draft? You don't care about the draft? I am hosting a NFL.

I can't. I don't care about. But I like to, give me some space. I like to, you know, I like to progress it in college. I like to just cram at the end. All right. I don't need to hear your 400 different things. Let me just cram at the end.

I'll form some bad takes. You don't have any Shields big boards coming out soon? No, there will not be. No, V1, V2s, none of that? There will not be. On Ringer.com, there will be. Danny Kelly, we see you. D.K., Todd McShea.

Deontae, I'll be doing. Deontte has good draft takes. I don't know if I have draft takes. I don't know if I have draft takes. I have draft takes. Yes, we will have all those cover. But we appreciate everyone listening all season long. We'll move to kind of a different little setup here for the off season,

which we'll get to you as soon as possible. We'll be back later this week. So again, thanks to Billy, thanks to Deontay. Thank you to Christopher Sutton. Congratulations to Christopher Sutton, Seahawks fan for producing us today. Had to watch with us. But he got to celebrate. So it worked out well for him.

Stefano Sanchez on video. An additional production supervision by Connor and Evans and Arjuna Ramigua. I'm Sheila Capade. We will talk to you soon on the ringer NFL show. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gampler or visit RG-Halt.com. Call 1-88-7-9-77. Or visit ccpd9-7-7-7.com or visit cc pcdcd or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline MA. Or call 800-3-27-50-50 for 24-7-supported in Massachusetts or call 1

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