The Ringer NFL Show - Sean Payton's Future in New Orleans and More NFL Coaching Chaos | 'GM Street' (Ep. 222)

Episode Date: January 17, 2018

The Ringer's Michael Lombardi and Tate Frazier discuss Todd Haley's tenure ending in Pittsburgh (00:30), the future of the Saints and Sean Payton (07:15), the drawn-out hiring process in Arizona (18:45), Pat Shurmur possibly taking over the Giants (22:30), the Josh McDaniels–Indianapolis rumors (28:00), and how Tennessee's playoff win hurt the team (29:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of GM Street is brought to you by Seekek. It is the best app for buying and selling tickets to sporting events, concerts, and more. For $20 off, your first Seatgeek purchase on any game or sporting event, all you have to do is use promo code Ringer NFL. Download the Seekek app or go right to Seekgeek.com today. The St.m Street, part of the Ringer podcast network. I am Tate Frazier. It is Wednesday afternoon.

And on the line, it is Mr. Mike Lombardi. Lombardi, how you doing? I'm good, Tate, Brasier. How are you feeling? You good? I'm doing all right. I'm bouncing back. back out a little bit of a sickness.

Coach K had a virus this past Saturday. I don't know if you saw that. And I think I caught the same thing. So for the first time, I was on the same page. Did he miss the game? Did Coach K miss the game? He missed the game. I missed a podcast recording.

You know, it's about even as far as the importance on the world. But yeah, I'm back. I'm happy to be on the line with you. And I'm happy to get back to podcasting because if people want to know what's going on in the world of the NFL, Mike Lombardi. There's no doubt. There's a lot going on behind the scenes. There's a lot going on.

Let's jump into it. First up, let's talk about Steelerland up in Pittsburgh. A lot of drama going on. Obviously, they take the lost 45-42 to the Jaguars. They are no longer in the playoffs. And with that, comes changes. And Todd Haley was at the end of his contract as the offensive coordinator for the Steelers. There was obviously a rift and some friction between Haley and Rothesburg.

We remember when Bruce Ariens got forced out and they brought in Todd Haley. Big Ben was not the happiest customer when that happened. And now we're at the end of the road. And it looks like quarterback's coach Rainey Fisnerner. We'll get promoted to the offensive coordinator. Ben Rathesberger said continuity is what he wanted, and it looks like they're going to keep them there. What do you think about this move for the Steelers?

Today was that Mike Muncheck, the offensive line coach, who had an opportunity to interview for the second chance that the Arizona Cardinals job turned it down to stay. And I think this is why Gilbert was hurt. Chris Hubbard in it right-ta, great job. And keeping Muncheck in place is going to help everything else out. And I think what the Steelers really need to do is a game. I mean, that's really what they're trying to do, Tate Fras.

They're trying to be the Golden State Warriors, and they need to be able to control the pick. How could this possibly be? They got one of the best running backs in the league if they fake it, and yet they're one of the worst play action teams. So I think the Steelers to move off. And you brought this up to me as we were watching the Steelers game, and, you know, Levyon Bell was credited for this running style

where he patiently sits back and then he sort of waits for his offensive lineman to figure out, you know, where they're going to pick up guys, and then he sort of picks the hole with what they determine. It's almost like he has an option every single time in these run plays. And you talked about Munchek as a lot. a guy that teaches this for the lineman. He's a really good offensive line coach and the importance of having a guy like Leveon. So do you think that helps in negotiations with Leveon to bring him back to Pittsburgh knowing he's going to have Muncheck to manage that line? And Muncheck's run game is really good.

And what I was trying to say when we were watching the game is they go for the guard and the hip of the tackle come together. So when Lavion steps up into the hole and he does that direct stop, there's no penetration. There's nobody in the backfield because they're foot to foot and they're pushing the line. And then he can read the linebackers flow. And he can then break on that. And it's well orchestrated. It's well coached. And fundamentally, it's well executed. So this allows them to, even when there's not a play that looks like there's going to be yardage, that they can still gain yards. So it's just not a happenstance. Oh, Levyon just stops what he's doing. You know, we should teach that if we're at the Eagles or if we're at the 49ers. Let's teach this. No,

no, no. This is kind of orchestrated by what they do. For me, Haley, the Tate Fraser, So you're either a head coach. So when you sign a contract, if you decide to not have an extra year, you become a free agent, like a player. You have two weeks after your season, if you're not in the playoffs, to renew your contract, like what happened with Fyngio. And you can test the market and you can get a new contract. I think what happened here with Todd Haley is he felt like he would be in demand, and perhaps he will be. But he let that contract go, find a job at some place, whether it's going to be Philadelphia, I mean, whether it's going to be Pittsburgh, New York Giants.

And we, you know, it wasn't just Haley, a guy that was mentioned for, you know, being in the doghouse and possibly, you know, being let go by the Steelers. I mean, Mike Tomlin was a name that we saw come up. And a lot of people questioned some of his decisions as far as, you know, we even talked about some of his clock management, some of his decisions, maybe the own side kick in the Jaguars game, just some questions basically to see, you know, who he is as a head coach and, you know, was he the fundamentally sound guy that a lot of people pegged him to be at one point.

When you look at Tomlin and you hear these rumblings and rumors about him possibly being out, I mean, is that nonsense or is there some actual substance of stuff to that? No, I mean, look, first of all, you know, the nonsense about minority partners are upset with them. I mean, look, they just get better Super Bowl tickets and they get a bench seat that the gay family

does. And they don't make decisions. I understand that Mike can do. Mike is a defensive expert. Move this defense from a schematic stamp. They never could against Jacksonville. Is it the fault of their players? Again, we'll go back to that whole. For me, I think sometimes the Steelers, before the playoff game, they were 28th in the national football league and allow on scoring points down there. So to me, that's where they have to improve.

And it likes the head coach, that should be the area they should be really good at. And we'll see what happens in Pittsburgh. We obviously, you know, it sounds like Ben Rothensberger has decided to come back. There were a lot of people that thought that this could be his final season so far, so good. If you've heard him on the radio up in Pittsburgh, it sounds like he's bought in for next year. Let's talk about another franchise that, you know, took an exit early in the playoffs. this weekend with a divisional round, that's in New Orleans Saints.

They take the heartbreaking loss of the Minnesota Vikings, and now we're on the other side of that. They're trying to figure out what the future looks like for them. The first big ticket to figure out, obviously, is Drew Bree, is a free agent. He just turned 39 on January 15th.

He will be a free agent now. There's a lot of talks that he will and plans to come back to New Orleans. Sean Payton's another guy, not quite sure what his future looks like. And all the post-loss interviews and everything that happened with the Saints, it all seems like they're all aligned to come back

and try to make another run of this thing. And when you look at the Saints, what's the first big question you have to answer there? Good team is Patent's the coach. And, you know, there's always been conversations every offseason about Sean Payton being from the fact that, and can they co-exec, Jeff Ireland,

the general manager, will they move as they need to? Now, we know Sean's upset with his special teams. He brought Mike Westoff in to help. I think they have like three special teams coaches before they brought West off in. So you know they're going to clean that area of their team up. But I think what they really need to do is clean up

where they, yeah, I definitely do. Yeah, I definitely do, because I think a little bit like the Rick Smith situation in Houston with Billy O'Brien, did I anticipate, thought that however, that being said, and they had to make some changes. So, and once they can get through that, and they get Breeze, a good, young, talented team.

And I saw Breeze in his post-presser, after all the stuff happening against the Vikings, you know, they were asking him about the season and, you know, the strides that they made, and, you know, they're probably going to be a team that a lot of people like next year going to the season to make a Super Bowl run. And the question was, you know, how do you capitalize on this positive stuff that you have rolling?

And, you know, all Breeze basically said was a lot of times when you have a good team, people don't work as hard because they feel like they've already gotten there. And my whole purpose is off season is to make sure this team works as hard as they need to work to make a real run at this thing. So when you hear those quotes as a Saints fan, you have to be pretty optimistic about Breeze potentially returning to the Saints. One idea that I've also heard third on there about the Saints is the chance for them to go after Bobby Wagner. I don't know if you've seen this, to try to bring in a guy like that, you know, a Super Bowl MVP, a guy from Seattle that's with the old regime, and there are probably some possible changes there in Seattle. So there's a big chance that, you know,

the Saints could make a run at him in free agency, which would be nice. Well, I think, look, the Saints, you know, they were talking about trying to sign Malcolm Butler to a huge contract. That never worked out. Probably good for them that it never worked out, because I'm not sure Butler would have played to the level that that contract would have been worth. But I think if you're a St. fan,

you've got to feel really good about one thing. Drew Brees got better. Even though he got older, he got better. I mean, you know, his yards per attempt went up almost a half a yard this past season. And so he was able, really, you have to go back to his least amount of interceptions. His quarterback rating, and I know sometimes these numbers get a little construed, but his quarterback rating was one of the highest that's been in his league. Now, for the first time, Tate Fraser, for the first time since 2009, the year they won the Super Bowl,

he didn't throw it over 600 times. So that means they were able to keep. keeps thinking they have control the game because 2009 that Drew Brees didn't throw the ball over 600 times and because of it trolled the game. And I think Drew Brees had his best season. So for football, Sean Payton, next stand and next door. And we should say Drew Brees led the NFL with 72% completion percentage. That was the highest all-time. And he is three out of the four of the all-time completion percentage list.

Drew Brees is on that list. I think Sam Bradford was the fourth guy on that list. So Drew Brees keeps turning him out. He had four years of his career that he's thrown 70%. I mean, you go back to 09, he was 70.6. You go back to 11, he was 70. And it isn't like they just throw checkdowns all the time. I mean, they throw it up the field at times.

And he did what he had to do in that game. I think for the St. fans, I think watching that play for the, I think two things come to mind. And you must have a field goal where you think a guy. You know, so say that would make it a 57-yard. That's like we think he can make that field goal indoors. Then you've got to put your defense there right there at the front. 41 yard line and make sure the ball doesn't get over your head. And then you've got to have another layer of defense behind.

And I think that's really what the Saints probably are going to spend most of their time working on. And they're probably going to spend a lot of time saying Sean Peyton, maybe don't do a skull chant mocking the crowd with 25 seconds left. I don't even understand that. I'm too old. What is that? I'm missing that. What's a skull chant?

So I think it's this clap. They do like a skull clap and a chant. It's a Vikings thing that they do. And so apparently the story is this is from a fan that corroborated the story that Peyton, he turned around, looked at the Vikings crowd, and then did the skull

chant and did the clap with 25 seconds left after they hit the field goal. And then of course, then that all came back to bite him. So maybe that's a lesson to take home this year. Maybe don't do that and play with fate like that. Because karma doesn't pick and choose.

I mean, there are some pickers of him doing it too. He apparently owned up to it and said he did do it and said it was all in good fun. but I think that was a bad omen if you're Sean Peyton. You know, when we played a credible playoff game in 2014, where we were down 14 points twice, and I wrote about it in the book. And when they tried to, after the inner punt the ball back to that,

there was like nine seconds we couldn't take off the clock. So they were going to get one more chance at the ball. And we couldn't take gold in play. There was a couple things that we couldn't have done. So I could still remember that play. And when Flacco threw the ball up in the air, I honestly can tell you, Tate Frasier, that I never looked at the play. I mean, I just had my hand in my eyes.

My hands were covering my eyes. I just didn't want to see it. I was in the coaches. I just figured I'll wait for the reaction of the crowd to tell me because I didn't want to see it. I felt like if I looked at it, I would jinx it. So when you get down there, I always think something bad's going to happen. That's why I can't believe Sean did it, because you always think you're never going to be able to pull it off. I'm telling you, my whole entire career, I never ever watched a feel.

go kick or kick the ball. Ever. I always would just, if we play, I know we missed it. Because we're all superstitious. I mean, you're not in this league without wear. I mean, one year in 2000, I think the year I was in Cleveland went down to my underwear,

every I can't not wear what I'm wearing. Don't contradict me. That's funny. Yeah, exactly. I mean, don't bring logic to a logical problem. Please, don't stop doing that. As I knock on wood three times and, you know, I always wear the same socks.

I always wear the Carolina games during the whole Carolina run last year were the same socks. every game. And sometimes it works out when you do that stuff. Sometimes it doesn't. But when it does, it makes you stick to it even more. When I was growing up, everybody did that. I mean, when I was growing up, Pete Marriwich used to wear the same socks to every game.

I don't think he even washed them. That's why I always wore the same socks when I played in game. Like if I had a good game, I always wore the same socks. And that was because of Pistol Pete. It's a well-known thing. You got to do that. Got to do it. No, hey, look, I'm all for it.

I mean, look, I would drive the same way to the stadium. I would never go any way. I mean, that's why it shocks me that, you know, there's you never, ever, I mean, never. I mean, we've seen it too many times where, you know, you think it's going to happen and, oh my God, it doesn't. Yeah, and there's a great Woody Durham line. Go where you go, do what you do.

And I like that. Go where you go, do what you do. I got to put that in the book. There you go. Put that in the book. Woody Durham. Give them a citation. We're going to take a quick break to get a word from our sponsor.

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and that's the Arizona Cardinals. Bruce Ariens retires and leaves there. and a lot of people thought that Mike Munchek would be the name that would get pulled over, but Munchek took his name out of consideration. I was going to stay with the Steelers, as we mentioned earlier. And now when you look at that Cardinals job, I mean, is there a name that jumps out to you or someone they plan to target? I've heard Brian Flores as a name that may pop up a guy of the Patriots, linebackers coach.

That's probably the only one I've heard, really. Well, Brian Flores interview for the job. He thought it went well, and I think Brian Flores is one of the most outstanding coaches I've been around. I mean, of all the coaches in New England, you know, Matt Patricia will become the head coach of the Lions and Josh. perhaps on that staff. He's young. He worked in the personnel department. So he knows personnel. He's coached safeties. He's coached linebackers. He knows the Belichickian system pretty much.

Hughes on the Belichick system is have a chance to be their guy. And the reason I thought Sherman might be their guy is because maybe he could take case. They need a quarterback, right? You know, that would lead him to be the guy. But I don't really have an instinct on what Munchek took his, he doesn't think, and that's why he took his name out. Because Muncheck deserves to be another head coach, whether he could be a successful one or not, he's a great line coach. But when he took his name out, that was surprising. Yeah, just looking

at the Cardinals situation, obviously, you don't have a quarterback. You've got to figure out the Larry Fitzgerald situation. He's a guy that's sort of aging out, but he is also an ageless wonder at the same time. I mean, is there any name? I mean, most people expect him to go from an experienced head coach. That's why Muncheck

was the top name that came up. I mean, is there a chance they go young with like a Mike Vrabble type? Is there anyone really that stands out? Because obviously Patricia McDaniels, some of these other names seem like they're all locked up at different places. And I mean, you know, they're going to talk to Rayble.

They're going to talk to Matt LaFloor. Maybe they're going to talk to Brian Flores as well in Tennessee. They can't do it now because they're still in the playoffs. But to me, I thought they were headed down that experience playing, but they're talking about bringing John DiPilippo back for a second interview. Whether that happens or not, I don't know. I don't know of keeping it secret on what they're trying to do. And usually how things.

clubs will call, hey, you know, you coach this guy at that team, tell me about your coach. And so once you make that phone call, whomever you called to get that information, he's then taking that information and leaking it to whoever he wants to tell it to. We're not hearing any of that. Like they're not doing any candidate, which tells me, could it be floors? It wouldn't shock me. Yeah. And the owner Michael Bidwell did say that, I think he even put it out there publicly,

that he's going to take his time with the searching and that there was no deadline in Arizona. So that's probably the most intriguing place to watch. Let's go to the New York Giants, which is probably the most primetime job available. There's been a lot of, you know, at one point, I think, you know, people had pegged Matt Patricia as the guy in New York. Oh, people had pegged Bill Belichick coming back, and then I went to Nick Save it. And I went to Nick Save it. Yeah, no one really knew what was going on up there. Everyone just liked the storylines.

Obviously, Gettelman is back. The Marr family is trying to figure this whole thing out. Steve Wilkes was a name that was thrown out that interviewed. Josh McDaniels was another guy that was thrown out there. And now Pat Shermer, right, is the one. that everyone seems to believe will be the head coach? Yeah, and I think it's a little unfair that the Giants have gotten labeled that they didn't get the guy they wanted in Patricia. That's never what I heard.

You know, I think they really... But I don't think they're really... But I don't think... For what Josh McDaniels ordered to me that the Giants knew that, you know, if they tried to, if they hired their general manager first, that it would probably preclude them from McDaniels caliber because he wants to go somewhere where he has a relationship with the general manager. So I think the Giants are taking a beating in terms of they're saying they get the voice of the Lions from the beginning.

I think the guy they've wanted to hire. The giant job was his job. I think the giant job was McDaniels. Tells me that perhaps they haven't given up on the Ceyline train yet. Perhaps draft a guy and develop a young quarterback like he did when he was in St. Louis. DeS. Magnullough coming back as your defense coordinator because Shermer was his offensive coordinator when he was the head coach of the Rams. It'll be a nice little role reversal there.

Yeah, well, I mean, you know, they changed the offense. Now, look, the one thing about the Giants by higher, still the West Coast place, I mean, that's what Macaddonor ran. Would that be perfect? I was going to ask you, could you imagine Hugh Jackson and Ben McAdo on the sideline together? I don't think we could ask for more comedy than that next season. I think it would be probably. The question is, is what hairdo would McAdo use for the Cleveland job?

We know he has hair in the first year in New York, changes hairstyle in the second year. Would you have a third hand to do that? I think he goes buzz cut if he's in Cleveland. Why not? Could you imagine him? Wouldn't that be great? Wouldn't that be just unbelievable having him and Hugh next to each other? I would feel for Bin McAdoo because Hugh is going to blame him for everything.

Everything that goes wrong offensively is going to be his fault. So poor Ben McAdoo. Yeah, I mean, I know. But look, I mean, Hugh, two years ago we fired the defensive staff. This year he fired the whole offensive staff and, you know, fired the specialty. They were taking the exile leader out. The exile leader says to the Peter Falk character, he says, you see this mirror. This mirror is a magic mirror.

If you look in this mirror, it'll tell you who you're at. enemy is all the time. Okay? So naturally, for the single days, he sees him killed. I think Hugh has that mirror somewhere there. I think he does. It actually makes a lot of sense. So poor Hugh. I hope he figures it out. Maybe he'll get two wins next year. That's my hope.

They can't do back-to-back-O and 16, but if they bring in Bid Macadu, there's a real chance that could happen. Let's go to Detroit, a job that, you know, most people understand that Matt Staffer wants to keep the offensive staff in place, and that means keeping Jim Bob Cooter in place. so that means they're looking for a defensive guy and Matt Patricia seems to be the name, right? I think that's it.

I think Patricia's got that job whether he, you know, I mean, taking and, you know, he'll go in there and keep Jim Bob Kruger to find an offensive line, going to have to put together comfortable with, and he made everybody content happy with his head coach and his quarterback's happy with his offensive coordinator and therefore everybody's happy. And one thing I know learned from Bill Wall,

she used to say this all the time. When everybody's happy, that means we're not winning. So we'll see if this works out. He used to say it all the time, Dave Frazier. That's a good line. It's hilarious how it comes back to you. He used to say, you know, when people say, well, I don't think we're in the same boat.

I'm in the boat in front of you, and you guys are rowing too. So he understood that he was in charge of everything. Yeah, let's go to a place where it does sound like it could be pretty easy with Andrew Luck coming back to play quarterback. It seems all signs point to Andrew Luck being healthy and ready to go from the start. And Josh McDaniels is supposedly, you know, Chris Ballard likes McDaniels and wants to bring McDaniels in to run this team and to get Andrew Luck in this offense back on a role.

Does that seem like a good fit there with McDaniels in Indianapolis? I think it does. And I mean, I like Chris Ballard. I think Chris Ballard's background fits with Josh McDaniels. I think it will work well there. And, you know, look, you get a quarterback, like I've said, it doesn't matter really when the next month in September. You hire a coach to be able to set a program and build a culture.

And I think that that's really what matters most. When Andrew Luck's healthy, I think they'll have the culture, and he'll be able to be good now in terms of if you take that arsenal that comes with them from New England, the ideology, the system in place, and you put it in Luxans, I think it could be really good. Absolutely. It seems like a fit that almost like a mesh in heaven. Especially with the background with the whole, it's going to be funny to see how that all works out with, you know, the Colts and the Patriots had this rivalry so long in the AFC to see who was going to be the Supreme Team. obviously the Patriots dominated that talk.

And then, you know, obviously it goes back to the deflakeate situation. And now you have, you know, Andrew Luckware, number 12, Brady being the, you know, the current 12. It's a lot of similarities between the situations there. And now McDaniels, obviously, being on the Coltsville, add even more intrigue to that whole storyline. So good for the AFC. Is any more job openings or situations we should hit? I think the Tennessee one's going to be interesting. I think Tennessee was a day late, a dollar short.

You know, I think that they wanted to make some changes really might. that were the same games we were watching. And so, you know, they had to make a change. And I kind of worked out now they've got to figure out what's the best path. Can they get Mario to the right guy to come in with them? That remains to be seen. I mean, Rabel, Matt LaFourre going to go in there. I think this is going to be interesting to see based on the talent pool that's left what is available.

They still have coaches that are going to pay for the staff. They're still paying Wisenhunt, and they're still going to come in. I would suspect will be a younger coach with a little bit on-the-job growth. So my question to you about the Malarkey situation, it was a report. right? Once they got the win in the first round that he was going to sign a contract extension, then when they went to actually do the meetings and try to figure out what the negotiation points are of the contract, they didn't agree to terms and then he was terminated, right? Right, exactly. Well, what happened was, I think they said, hey, look, we want you back, but we don't know, I'm out.

And they said, you're out. And, you know, so once he decided that it became a real problem. Wow. Well, that's a crazy turn of events to go from news of a contract extension to it all going downhill real quickly. Yeah, those are probably the two jobs. The Cardinals and the Titans are the two ones to keep an eye on to see what happens there. Most expect the Colts and the Lions jobs are pretty much wrapped up in Shermer and Detroit. Lombardi, any more thoughts before we can? We're going to be back Friday to do our Friday focus where we're going to hit all the championship games.

So you can hear us in when we finally break all that stuff down. But any more thoughts before we get to Friday? No, I just know that the Falcons are trying to hire a quarterback coach, which I think will help. I mean, obviously if they bring Sarkeesian back, that'll be interesting. I thought Seattle bringing Ken Norton back was interesting. Obviously, it tells me the demanding of the plane. So he's office and went to the defensive meeting room. So that Norton coming back.

And Brian Schottenheimer coming there. I mean, John Schneider was Marty Schottenheimer's offense general manager when he was in Washington briefly. So that's an interesting hire because Darryl Bevel was the same offensive coach. He was going to keep the West Coast offense in place there. So, Buffalo will be another interesting move. Leave the University of Alabama. I think, you know, if they can get a quarterback there, I think that's a lot. help Buffalo in terms of give them a better passing game,

and then hopefully they can still run games, no more coaching talk. Exactly. And Dave Ball will have a good time up there in Buffalo, getting to go back home. Yeah, he's home. He can eat all the wings he can. And try to revamp that offense because they had the defense. They held the Jaguars at 10 points, much better than the Steelers defense could do. So we'll see if they can figure it out up there.

This has been another edition of GM Street part of the Ringer Podcast Network. Thanks, Mike Lombardi. All right, Tate, Prasier. Thank you. Talk to Friday.