The Ringer NFL Show - Second-Half Story Lines to Watch | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 340)

Episode Date: November 8, 2018

Is the Cowboys head coaching job secretly a good one? What would an MVP award do for Drew Brees’s legacy? Should Le’Veon Bell even come back at this point (1:05)? Plus, the three biggest games of the week, Dez Bryant’s potential impact on the Saints, and a 'Thursday Night Football' preview (34:00). Hosts: Robert Mays and Kevin Clark Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And when you get the pixel 3 on Verizon, it comes with America's best network. Visit your local Verizon store today, or learn more at p.0.st slash the ringer. Here at the NFL show, we talk a lot about Football. Why do we call ourselves a show? If you aren't actually watching us, it doesn't matter. What does matter is when it comes to watching NFL football, you never have to miss a game with the Yahoo Sports Mobile app. That's because the Yahoo Sports Mobile app lets you watch local and primetime NFL games live on your phone.

Tune into your favorite teams and the biggest NFL matchups, wherever and whenever you want all NFL season long. So download the Yahoo Sports Mobile app and watch NFL football at the tap of an app. Now onto the show. Yeah, that does sound like. To the ringer NFL show. I'm Robert May. joined as always by Kevin Clark. Kevin, how you doing, buddy? I am okay. The schedule gods are punishing us, but this week, because we had such a good last week, not a lot of good games. Yeah, so we are going to use the Thursday night game instead of doing that at the end as one of our good games because there just aren't many other ones. So that's fun. That's always good when you have

to pick one more game from a pot you wouldn't normally have to choose it from after last week when we struggle to find three good ones. Yeah, I mean, last week was a unicorn. This week is a unicorn the other way. So I just, you know, we have to look for the POD, the silver linings, Robert. There are games to learn things from this week. Absolutely.

You just have to know where to look. That's how we're going to kind of kick off the show today. We're going to chat about the second half storylines that we're most interested in. And Kevin, let's start with a game we didn't get to on Sunday show because it took place on Monday. The Dallas Cowboys had yet another embarrassing. I was going to say an embarrassing loss,

but yet another embarrassing loss to the Titans in prime time. And now we have calls from just about everyone, including former Cowboys' greats like Troy Aikman, saying it may be time for Dallas to tear this down. And I'm not necessarily in disagreement with Mr. Aikman. Where do you sit? So I have a couple of things to address. The first is that Jerry Jones went on the radio on Tuesday and said,

Dak Prescott's getting an extension. He's young. We're giving him an extension. First of all, I don't know what kind of negotiation tactic that is because it seems like Dak Prescott's agent would say, well, this is very exciting. But beyond that, what kind of deal are going to give Dak Prescott? You're going to give him one of these mega deals? Because I certainly hope not because that would ruin the franchise.

saying Dak Prescott's not, not, you know, a starting quarterback. But what I am saying is that the value in Dak Prescott is that he's being paid like a mid-round pick. He's being paid like a fourth-round pick. That's why they were able, you know, even with Tony Romo's dead cap two years ago, they were able to sort of build a infrastructure around him that really worked. And if you're going to go out and throw money and picks at the mistakes you've already made, you trade for on Mari Cooper, maybe to save Jason Garrett's job, you're going to say, oh, we're going to give money to Dak Prescott for, for Lord knows what reason. It just seems like instead of addressing the actual problems they have, they're going to double down and try to make those problems

work. That never, ever, ever works, ever. And it is incredible that it's happening. And let me tell you on this. I've talked about this before. But the thing that maybe shaped my view of of the competitive nature of the NFL. Somebody a couple years ago said, in order to figure out who's going to win the Super Bowl, you have to remember that not every team is trying to win the Super Bowl. And that the number one prerequisite of trying to win the Super Bowl is trying to win the Super Bowl.

And it's not as many teams as you think. And when I look at this Cowboys team, and they seem obsessed with just protecting their current infrastructure, protecting what they've built, which is nothing, it just seems to me like they'd rather appear to be right than win. Feels like Jerry Jones wants to succeed with this group instead of looking at the big picture and saying that this group

is not good enough to win the modern NFL. See, I don't know if I agree with all that. And we're stepping on what my take shop was going to be a little bit. But I don't know, man. I feel like with a real coach that this team might be okay. The Prescott thing is an entirely different conversation. And if we want to talk about his extension, I think that we could talk about in practical terms.

the deal that I would give Dak Prescott if I were in the Cowboy situation right now because I do think that we've seen him be a competent NFL quarterback is the type of deal that Andy Dalton got that Colin Kaepernick got that Ryan Tannenhill got where you have that trap door that you can get out from under

where you can get out from under the deal one or two years like it may be you know they don't have they don't have Niners S cap space and obviously Prescott's not Garoppolo it's very different in fact Prescott's one a lot more games than Carapolo But I mean, it's probably a situation when they give them a lot of money up front and they can get out of it after two years. But you don't even have to do the Garoppolo thing.

The Gropolo contract is a massive amount of guarantees. I mean, the Andy Dalton contract when he got it, the practical guarantees at signing were $17 million. Right. You can get out from under those deals fast. And Tannahill had a contract that was relatively similar. There was more guaranteed money, but it still wasn't the type of guarantees we see with these mega contracts. I know that was a couple years ago. and overall kind of the structure and paradigm for quarterback contracts has shifted a bit.

But those contracts can happen. And I feel like that's the type of deal I would give him if I were Dallas because I don't mind the infrastructure that they have. They don't have a first round pick, dude. How are they getting better next year? They have a lot of cap space. When you look at the free agent market, what do you say? They have to sign the market.

They may have to sign them to the market's a guy that could bring back. They telegraph that they have to give the extent. mentions you guys like DeMarcus Lawrence to Amari Cooper. Stephen Jones came out and said we're going to get, obviously we're going to resign Amari Cooper. So you're going to tie up that cap space with DeMarcus Lawrence and Mari Cooper. Well, you're not going to tie up cap space with Amari Cooper. You're going to pay Amari Cooper maybe less against the cap in 2019 than you were going

to pay him on his fifth year option. Oh, yeah. He's not going to make 14 a year. No. So that space, you're, I mean, you're going to save some cap space in 2019. DeMarcus Lawrence, that contract is going to give you a hit. But you still have, even if you give to Marcus Lawrence that extension, there's a chance they cut Sean Lee next year.

I think that would absolutely be in the cards when you consider how well Van deroges just plays. He's hurt. And he's also he's hurt again. And he's hurt again. Exactly. There's going to be a way for this team to have some money. And I think that if you look at the defense and the players they have on defense, if I'm doing this, if I'm doing it, if I'm Jerry Jones in this situation, which is a very hard thing for me to kind of picture and put myself in, I'd want to do what a lot of teams have done recently, what the Bears did with Nagy and Big Fangio.

I think that what Chris Richard has done this season is very impressive. I think that there are defensive players on this Cowboys team that I'm excited about. I would love if they went out and got a very real offensive head coach, asked Rashard if you wanted to stay as the defensive coordinator, and we could see what this group of offensive players looks like in a real NFL system, because we do not see that right now. So here's, when we play Devils out of a second, Cowboys have $47 million in space next year. Yes.

That's not a lot, dude. That's a lot for cowboy standards, man. That is a ton for cowboy standards. The Kansas City Chiefs, the Kansas City Chiefs have 44. You're going to try to win a super, I mean, like the default, I remember Lombardi has said this before, and I completely agree with them. Capspace has become, and this was a mistake he made in Cleveland, and he's talked about this, is the idea that cap space is all that important because,

and here's why, because it's really easy to get Capspace now, because the Packers are going to have 42. The Chiefs, as I said, are going to have 44. The Los Angeles Rams are going to have 40. The Los Angeles Rams. I understand that, but I'm just saying everybody has money to spend next year. Cap Space is overrated. People aren't going to come to the Cowboys because they're the Cowboys.

This is in baseball. Oh, I totally disagree with you. I think they're going to come to the Cowboys for a lot of reasons. Give me the free agent who's taking a discount to come to Dallas. I don't think they're taking discounts, but I do think people would want to come and play for the Cowboys. Why wouldn't they want to go play for the chiefs or the Packers or the Rams? All those teams are worthwhile destinations too. Do the Cowboys have to get every free agent?

I'm just saying they have some financial flexibility. They can't go out and build a Los Angeles Rams-esque super team with $44 million, $47 million. Do they need to do it next year? I'm just saying that they can be a relatively, this team with a real offensive staff can win games next year. So, okay. But what I'm saying is this is a team that should have made a Super Bowl run two years ago when they lost. to Aaron Rogers in the division. No, no, no, no, no.

What I'm saying is the point is to win a Super Bowl, and this team cannot win a Super Bowl with this core. I disagree with that. Okay. I think this team can win a Super Bowl with this core two years from now. They can't do it a year from now. They can do it. I'm not saying they can win the Super Bowl in 2020

without getting significantly better at certain spots. They need another pass catcher. They need a really good one. The stuff like that needs to happen. But I still like where this team is from a talent perspective, and they do have enough flexibility. Flexibility they did not have two, three years ago. It's not a disaster.

That defense can play. And the offense, when Frederick comes back, that offensive line is still going to be pretty darn good. Z. Kelly is still pretty darn good. They need a couple of guys that can catch the ball and they need a new coach. That is what they need. And I think that this team can compete in that division 100%.

Well, I agree. I mean, obviously the new coach is first and foremost. Jason Garrett's lost six of his last seven challenges. It's a disaster. man, it is an absolute disaster. Watching that offense pains me. And whatever you think of Dak Prescott, and I know that there are, he has drawbacks.

With a real offense, I still think this could be a functioning NFL team. I really do. I don't know. I just, I think they're, they, if the, if the, everything breaks right, they could win 12, 13 games, win the division in a perfect world, you know,

in 2020 or whatever. But I just, when I look at the best NFL teams and I see how much work they put into it and how efficient they are and how many good roster decisions they made. They are really, really far away, in my opinion. I don't think they're that far away. To be in the upper echelon, yes.

To be the upper echelon. They're far away from the Rams. That's what I'm talking about. I mean, they could make the damn playoffs this year because the best team, the best offense. They can't make the playoffs this year. But again, we can't ask everyone to be the Rams and the Chiefs. Not everyone is going to be that.

You're not going to have those decisions. No one, Andy Reid and Shep. John McVeigh don't exist. What I'm saying is it's not like it's a, there are four teams that have done it that have gotten into the elite of the NFL. The chargers and the Panthers are right there. It's not impossible.

I don't know why we're throwing up our hands and saying the Dallas Cowboys can never be the top team in the NFL. But I'm saying, just because they can't be the Rams next season doesn't mean this is a lost cause. This is a Jason Garrett thing to me. It has nothing to do with. But they're only going to get worse

because they're going to start paying their quarterback more. And they don't have a first round pick next year. They're going to throw money. at the players they currently have. What I'm saying is, is that I just don't see a path. The Rams didn't have a first row pick this year either. Yeah, well, the Rams might win the Super Bowl in three months. That's fine. I just think it's not as far away as you seem to. All right. Let's talk about those couple other teams that are kind of on the edge of cracking into the elite. And that's Carolina and the Chargers. Yeah. I feel like they are right there. And we've talked about these teams a lot in recent weeks.

Both of their offenses are exciting. Both of their offenses just have kept pace. I guess that's what I'd say. and the panthers in a more surprising way than the Chargers. I mean, even though, based on some of the schematic decisions the Chargers made last year or analytical decisions, maybe we should be surprised that they've managed to keep pace. I mean, what do you think about both of these teams' abilities to knock off a Chargers, or excuse me, a Rams or a Chiefs come playoff time, right? Do you think that that is very realistic, somewhat realistic? I mean, it's kind of your shock factor in regards to this.

So the big picture thing here is. is that no player at the trading deadline, nobody you could have possibly acquired, even in the offseason, is as good as Joey Bosa. Yep. Joey Bosa's not played for the Chargers. Assuming he comes back and looks like Joey Bosa,

I don't see any scenario in which that's not a massive game changer. Now, you start to look at the playoff picture. Can the Chargers go on the road and beat a team like the Chiefs? Can they go on the road and beat a team like the Patriots? I think that they have, I don't think they have the talent of those top four teams, but I think Philip Rivers is going to put up a lot of points. Somebody like Joey Bosa is going to be able to wreck a couple of plays.

I mean, their defense is still, you know, they've got talented guys there. Darwin James can make a couple plays. And so I think they have the right recipe to pull an upset. So I'm not saying that, you know, they're my Super Bowl favorites or anything like that, but I am saying that it would not, you said, what's the shock factor?

If they go into New England or they go into Kansas City and they win a game, I would not be shocked at all. If they do both, that would surprise me a little bit. But again, they have the right recipe,

which is they can put up a lot of points and they can create turnovers and disrupt the game from the defensive side. It's funny. I think that the Chargers have as good or better talent than the Patriots of the Chiefs.

If we look at all 22 starters. I absolutely do. I don't trust their coaching staff. Did you see the stat the other day? I actually said it on worst picks. the chiefs have a top three fantasy player at quarterback running back wide receiver and tight end. Yeah, but you get Andy Reid in that scenario. Yeah, no, I know.

I'm just, but Andy Reid can't create all. And those are some good, good players. Oh, they're really good. But if they're fantastic. But I think if you gave Andy Reed this chiefs are this Chargers offense, they'd be pretty damn good. Tyro Williams, Mike Williams, Keenan Allen, Melvin Gordon and Philip Rivers is not exactly, you know, a bad. collection of scoenvision players. I don't think they are, but I think they're, they're all a little notch below what the chiefs have. It's different. It's a different group. They're not as explosive,

but I mean, a guy like Keenan Allen, it almost doesn't even make sense on the chiefs offense now because they don't have anybody like that. Travis Kelsey is their closest comparison. But those guys still get open. They still have a ton of just explosive ability when you think of how much separation they can create. Tyro Williams is an awesome deep threat. I feel like the talent is there. I just start. don't know if I trust Anthony Lynn on the road. I don't know if I trust this offensive game plan compared to, you know,

especially what it's been in years past. It's been much better this year, but I still feel like I would give those other teams the edge more on how much I trust the entire package than me thinking they have just better talent than the Chargers do. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because I, when I was talking about talent, I was obviously talking with the Chiefs, because

when I look at the roster talent of the Patriots, I mean, it's a pretty, of the Patriots dynasty years, this has been, this is a fairly untalented roster, relative to only other Patriots teams.

I guess I think that. And part of the reason that I would concede that to you is that I think that Gronk is such a diminished version of himself, that even if he's on the team, it's different. I also think the Patriots

are going to make the Super Bowl. So like, let's not, this is not me ripping the Patriots. I'm just saying this is, obviously Bill Simmons has talked about this, especially earlier in the year, I agree that just as far as weapons go, this is not nearly as good

as Tom Brady has had, and it's definitely towards the bottom. Oh, I disagree with that. I mean, you mean, like, when he had, like, David Branch? I mean, like, 2006. Let's go back to 2006 and compare to this group of weapons. Josh Gordon is on this team. Yeah.

How many Patriots receivers of the Tom Brady era could have made that catch he made along the same? sideline. One? Who, Moss? Yeah. Could Welker? No. I don't know about that.

The ball would have gone two feet over Welker's head. Just because he dropped a pass over his head in the Super Bowl. It doesn't mean he couldn't get the vert now. I'm not sure West Welker's pulling that ball in, especially with the body control. Josh Gordon is a ridiculous talent. Even if you can't think you can rely on him

for the rest of the season, and that guy gives them a notch they just did not have. That's why the Patriots are the best. I wrote about this on Monday. They're the team that's going to go out and get Josh Gordon for Tom Brady at the midway point of the season or a quarter into the season, whatever it was. They're the team that's going to find every single edge to win, and that's why they're the best. And what they're doing, I agree that the weapons on paper aren't necessarily the best he's had,

but the way they've used them is incredible. This is the wonkiest Patriots offense in terms of personnel usage that I can remember. And that says a lot because we have plenty of examples. Yeah. No, it's interesting in me because I just think that it gets into how bad can the Patriots look on paper and I still think they're going to make the Super Bowl.

And this team definitely clears that bar for me. No, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying that we're not there yet for me. I still think this team is going to make the Super Bowl because, as I've said, their default is to make the Super Bowl. So I'm not going to pick against them until either they've proven they're not going to make the Super Bowl

or they just look horrendous and that has not happened as of yet. Who do you think is a better chance to come out of their conference? The Chargers or the Panthers? The Chargers. I think that the Saints... I don't know if I think that.

That's so weird. I think the Saints are just so consistent. And I think they know exactly... I think you know exactly what kind of game you're going to get out of them. It's going to be 38, 28, 28, maybe, something like that.

I don't know. You know, talking about the Saints defense. I just think it's really interesting to me because we talked about the future of defense last yesterday at the NFL planning meeting we had here in Los Angeles. And I just think that if the Saints can start getting turnovers, they can they can be a good modern defense. Almost every team in the NFL, even though I know good teams get passed on, that's how this works. Almost every good team in the NFL is in the bottom half of past defense, even adjusted for attempts. That's just sort of how this works right now. There is no perfect team right now from a past defense standpoint.

But I think the real future of defense is just giving up a lot of points, but being able to create turnovers, getting sacks and winning games with big plays, big play type defenses. You can't, you can't build a defense that way, though. I understand, but the Saints might win the Super Bowl with But you can't build defense that way. The Saints big plays on defense. The ones that you're thinking of are against Minnesota. The only reason that PJ Williams intercepts that ball and brings it back for a touchdown is because Stefan Diggs stopped running.

It had nothing to do with PJ Williams making a play. I understand that. But what I'm saying is that, I mean, we are rewriting the rules of defense in real time. And I think that 10 years ago, the Saints team would have been viewed very, very differently. But I really do think that the Saints defense is good enough to win you a Super Bowl. because it's 2018 and because points are at an all-time high. I don't disagree with you there, but I just feel like this Panthers team could absolutely hang with the Saints team scoring points.

They're not, I feel like they might be a bad matchup because the Saints have actually been one pretty good versus the run. And they've been much better at linebacker than they've been in years past. I know that might sound strange, but DeMario Davis was not a bad signing. He's actually played well for them. And Alex Anzolone is a guy that got hurt for them early last year.

And that I was like, all right, this guy looks like you can play a little bit. And he's been useful. So I feel like they'd be able to stop the run a little bit against his Panthers team, which kind of, you know, or hurts them other places. That's really what they want to be. Plus a lot of horizontal stuff after the catch. They don't have as much of a vertical game as they've had in years past,

which for the Panthers is weird to say. So I've, these teams haven't played, have they? I know they have not. No. So I was going to say, I can't remember what they looks like against each other. But I'll be curious to see if the Saints defense is actually a bad matcher the Panthers offense just because Carolina does not have that vertical aspect

that the Saints have had trouble with this season. Yeah, I mean, look, the Saints defense is bad. Like, they are they, they, they give up, well, that's really all the matters. Sure, but I mean, this Carolina team isn't interesting, it's a strange

version of an NFL passing game in 2018, especially compared to what they've been in the past. That's what I'm saying. No, and so they give up, the only team worse against the pass in the NFL is the Cincinnati Bengals. Oddly enough, the chiefs, but here's, here's a new NFL for you. I throw the bucks out there for good measure. Well, no, I'm just from yardage.

But here's the new NFL, okay? The top seven worst past defenses in the NFL, okay? New Orleans Saints, Kansas City Chiefs are fifth worst, New England Patriots are seventh worst. That's the new NFL for you. and none of these teams have been discounted. I mean, New England, yeah. I knew England's middle of the road in like most advanced metrics.

I mean, they've given up $2.174. I'm just saying, well, that's what, I mean, teams pass when they're losing. No, I understand. I understand that. I mean, look, the Tampa Bay Bucks, you know, they. Well, they're a whole different story. They're just bad. I mean, you could be just bad.

I think other teams are, they look worse than they actually are. I mean, the chiefs are 14th in past defense TVOA. No, I know. So I think that, you know, it's the, chiefs are actually getting much better. The chiefs are your example of a team of a defense making big plays. It's built to do it because you have a guy like D Ford that can wreck the game. Right.

I mean, you need one pass rush. And I guess the Saints do have that. I mean, Cam Jordan is a star. There's really no denying that. All right. Let's stick on the Saints for two minutes. By the way, the Rams, the Rams even adjusted for for attempts.

The Rams have the ninth worst adjusted yards per attempt in the NFL. I mean, they're also just bad. For them, it's not about catching up either. They're just plain bad. See, this is, it's so interesting. This is that I guess the Saints are, they're 27th against running backs, which they could probably struggle with McCaffrey. So that's one thing to keep in mind.

But Vikings 10th worst in yards per attempt. I'm just saying a lot of good teams, a lot of good teams, uh, have trouble against the past this year. Yeah, absolutely. And they're going to keep having trouble. All right, very quickly, let's talk about the Saints for one more second because I feel like one of those other second half storylines is going to be Breeze in that march for the MVP. We've talked about that a few different times. I just feel like if he wins it, it really does shape his legacy in an important way. Because two MVPs or the MVP award, if you have that box checked, let's say he gets another Super Bowl.

It changes the entire conversation in my mind. Yeah. And what I think is really interesting to me is Mahomes versus Breeze for that. Because I think those, would you agree, those are going to be the two clear-cut choices at the end of the year? Yes. but if I'm, if it's the most valuable player, Drew Breeze is more valuable to the Saints than Patrick Mahomes is to the Chiefs.

I agree. I agree. But I'm just saying from a voting perspective, it just depends, it depends on a couple of things. Number one, it depends on how well the Chiefs navigate their really hard games rest of the year, like against the Rams on Monday night. I think that's, if Mahomes has a absolute signature performance that night,

then we're having a different conversation and maybe it's not even close. However, I do think, I do think Breeze wins the award. I agree. I feel like we're headed that way. And again, if he wins an MVP and if he does win another Super Bowl, then I don't know, is he the third best quarterback ever? Behind Manning and Brady. Yeah.

At the time of his retirement, he will be. His interception percentage this year is 0.4%. He had won. I saw it happen. his is his yards per attempt so rogers and breese both have interception rate under 0.5%. But Breeze's yards per attempt is point is half a yard more. I mean, it's just it's he's been remarkable. It's unbelievable.

It's unbelievable. Michael Thomas are completing 89% of their throws to each other. And yeah. And then last week it was like 80% and the, it went, the season long completion percent went down to Michael Thomas. That's all you need to know. It is unbelievable. All right, before we move on, let's take a quick break. KiwiCo creates super cool hands-on projects for kids that make learning about Steam fun. KiwiCo projects are designed to spark creativity, tinkering, and learning in kids of all ages.

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That's kiwiCo.com slash NFL to try them out for free. Now back to the show. All right. Let's get to this week's take shop. I'm going to throw it through my really quickly because we kind of touched on it a little bit. I don't hate the Dallas Cowboys head coaching job if it becomes open. I know that there are downsides. And I know that I wrote about this today.

I kind of gave an enticement factor to all of the jobs that, seemed like they're going to come open. And for Dallas, it was pretty high because, like we talked about, Jerry Jones is the type of guy that's going to trade a first-round pick for Amari Cooper. But Jerry Jones is also the type of guy that's going to trade a first-round pick for Amari Cooper. They really go after it in a way that I feel like you can talk yourself into. It's going to harm you every once in a while, but the resources they have are incredible.

And they do what they need to do. The money is going to get spent. And there's enough talent on that team for me to say, I can definitely get with this. I mean, if it's a guy like Lincoln Riley and you can be the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys, that seems pretty appealing. I feel like somebody decent and a really good candidate is going to be able to get that job if Dallas wants him. And the other part of this, you know what Jerry Jones really is loyal?

I know he's not a great dude. And there's a lot of problems I have with Jerry Jones. But it took him a long time to fire Jason Garrett, even if he does. And he's the type of guy that says, We're expecting Dak Prescott. I don't care. He is not fired Jason Gary yet. Remember, that's the problem.

Yes, that is the problem. That is a problem. But if you're a good head coach, I feel like there are a lot of positive aspects of this job. I think there are jobs I'd rather have. Working with Aaron Rogers, for instance, is a job I'd rather have. But I still think that there's so much roster talent on this team

in a way that you don't, especially on defense. And again, if the offensive line, when they get Frederick back, it's still a very good group. it's enough for me. I absolutely could talk myself into this. Yeah, look, I'm hugely impressed with some of the guys they have on defense, man. Byron Jones broke the record for jumping at the combine.

You know how I feel about that. He's been awesome. DeMarcus, he's been shut down in a lot of situations. DeMarcus Lawrence, obviously, he's a huge talent. You love Leighton Van derrash more than any human being on the planet. He's been really good, man. Yeah, I know. I know. I know.

But I'm just saying, again, I think the gulf between them and the elite teams is so massive that I just don't know. I don't see a path for them to close it now. But that's, the gap between them and the elite teams might be massive, but that's not what we're talking about here. But I guess we're having two different conversations. I'm saying the coaching job is appealing.

No elite coaching jobs are coming open, except if you consider the Packers. No, I do consider the Packers one because the Packers have Aaron Rogers Rogers and they can win the Super Bowl any given year. That's fine. And that's why I said I'd rather have the Packers job. but I still think of all the NFL jobs that could come open, this one is pretty good because, in my opinion,

Jason Garrett is the biggest problem. In most jobs, it's not the head coach that's necessarily the biggest problem. You have so many other issues with those gigs. The talent is bad. You know, there's so much dysfunction. It's an organization you never want to play. Like the Raiders, I would never want to be the head coach of the Raiders at this point. But with a Cowboys, it's different.

You have resources. You have appeal. And you have talent. there aren't a lot of jobs like that. Yeah, I guess we're just having different conversations. I just feel like there's, there's, maybe you take the job because it's better. You're right. It is better than the Raiders job, but I just.

It's better than most jobs that come open is what I'm saying. I guess. I mean, it's, it's, yeah. I mean, listen, you go ahead and take the Cowboys job and let me know how it works out for you. Sounds good. They offer it to me. I'm more than happy to take the, what, $8 million a year. or whatever it is.

Okay. All right. So I doubt it's $8 million at this point, right? I guess depends who they bring in. It's the Cowboys. They can pay the guy 20 and not even care about it. You'd be surprised.

All right. So my take shot is... Jason Garrett got $6 million a year in 2015. Yeah. I bet it's coming off a year where they almost, they probably should have made the Super Bowl. That was the Descaught it year. If I'm getting that job,

I'm pointing to what the Raiders paid Gruden in. saying, yeah, I'd like something comparable to this, please. I don't think, I don't think that, I mean, again, it depends who it's going to be. If it's someone like Sean Payton, then they can, they can talk about it. No, exactly. All right. All right. So I have, I have one sneaky truth and one take shop, and I was trying to figure out which one is which, and I'll just keep the Cowboys thing going here.

So Des Bryant lost a lot of athleticism last year. He did not have, you know, I was just reading Albert Breyer, and he's pointing out correctly, the same thing we all saw, which is he lost. He did not have that vertical burst he had previous, which was so important to a lot of his abilities. The foot thing has lingered. Yeah, of course. He's never really gotten over it.

Having said that, I do think that he can, I do think there will be some moments in the Des Bryant Saints tenure that embarrass the Cowboys. I think Drew Breeze can sort of get anybody 60, 70 yards in a touchdown. And I think Drew, Des Bryant can be a solid to above solid sign. am I wrong? No, I don't think you're wrong because Trooperies can put the ball whatever he wants.

It reminds me, it reminds me at the end. Years ago when Levitard, when Dan Levitard was just a local show, and I was a college student in Miami, they asked Tony Dungey, they were like, if Peyton Manning just had a shopping cart out there, like just a shopping cart,

you could just push down the field, and then Peyton Manning could throw balls at it. How many yards would the shopping cart get? and Tony Dungee, I think, said if there was an arm, like a mechanical arm attached to the shopping cart, the shopping car would get 800 yards. Jordy Nelson was the shopping card for Eric Rogers last year. And he caught double digit touchdowns, or the last two years, the last time he got double digit touchdowns in like 2016. And he was the shopping cart. So I sort of see that with Drew Brees where there's, they're just shopping carts all over the place.

And I feel like they're going to want to get Des and maybe not, maybe not in the next two weeks or whatever. but I think at some point Des is going to have at least one big game. This is my prediction. I think so too. I'm a little worried about the Des thing. As someone who owns every share

of Michael Thomas and fantasy, I hate this because it's a touchdown thing. All Des can do is post up a dude in the end zone and catch a ball for six points. That's what he can do. And it's going to really annoy me if Michael Thomas never catches another touchdown for the rest of the season because

Michael Thomas is one of the best four or five receivers in the world and Des Bryant is a six-foot-three shopping cart. That's exactly right. You should be extremely worried. Des Bryant is a new Michael Thomas, Mays. No, get out of here. Stop that.

I'm joking. It upsets me. Yeah, in 2016, shopping cart, Jordy Nelson, caught 97 passes for 1,257 yards and 14 touchdowns. That's classic shopping cart. Let's talk about the games. All right, three games. Let's get through these pretty quick here.

First one, we talked a lot about them. Cowboys at Eagles. We didn't get to the Eagles in the second half storylines, but I mean, this is right around the time where we're going to need them to start picking it up. And I honestly feel like they can. I'm excited to see this team, Golden Tate, Alshon Jeffrey,

Zach Ertz, Dallas Goddert, Nelson Aguilar. This is a lot of weapons. It's going to be a very different offense than I think we saw the last season because Tate gives you an element that's not dissimilar to Aguilar. So we're going to see a lot of intermediate throws. But I'll tell you what, man, Carson Wentz is going to have guys open,

even against the decent offense or decent defense like Dallas has. So I saw a stat the other day from Ruben Frank that I'm just in love with. The Philadelphia Eagles have the 23rd best offense in the league. They are the first offense in the NFC East. That's where we are right now. And I kind of feel like the Eagles knew this when they made the Golden Tate trade. It's not a lost season. there's even though they they are a 500 team in the first half of the season there's just a lot of

evidence that if you're above average or average you can make the playoffs here and then once that happens who the hell knows but i just feel like they're just going to be the hair and wait at the tortoise they're going to be the tortoise right there's be the tortoise yes the tortoise yeah no one's actually there is no hair on the nsc east but i just feel like they can just sort of plot along win 10 games make playoffs and that's that i just feel like basic kind of confidence is going to win that division that year, this year. And that's why earlier when we're talking about the Cowboys, like, I, hell, who the hell knows?

If the Cowboys go nine and seven, you just don't know. But I just feel like the Eagles are going to be that team that wins nine, ten games and sort of backs into a playoff spot. We thought that a few weeks ago. I feel like we thought that. And as seeing the writing on the wall there, they're dangerous. It's a team you don't want to play. But this is the type of game where they really need to come out and show

that they're the type of team you should be afraid of. Okay. Let me ask you an important question. So you're the Rams, okay? And you, you, you are playing one of two teams in the NFC, in the NFC playoffs, okay? Would you rather see the Eagles or the Panthers? That's a really good question. I still think it's probably the Eagles.

You'd rather see the Eagles, okay? Yeah. No, I just wanted to see, when you say, when you say the Eagles are dangerous, I wanted to know how dangerous. maybe it's just recency bias with how good the Panthers have looked lately and I really like the Panthers offense. And for me, it's more that I'm worried still

about the Eagles defense, especially on the back end. And I don't have the same concerns about the Panthers. I know their secondary isn't great, but they've played fine. Jackson, the rookie has been okay. Bradbury's okay. You know, the safeties or whatever.

Eric Reed has been a really nice signing for them. I have more concerns about what the Eagles are in the back end. But again, the Eagles defensive line is still terrifying. That offense is going to have a lot of weapons. You get Lane Johnson back. Darren Sprouls is coming back.

I don't know how I feel about that. Maybe he does nothing. But again, it's just one more guy to get the ball to in space. So it's close. I feel like the difference is marginal at best. Yeah. No, I agree. I think that this is going to be,

I think this can be kind of a fun matchup. I'm now in the same way that I've joked a lot about Nathan Peterman being must watch. The Cowboys are getting there to where they're just, I just don't know what's going. on with them and I can't keep my eyes off of them. It's a lot of... It's a lot of...

It's a lot of... rubbernecking. I get a lot of entertainment out of watching the bills because it's just so terrible and it's not even frustrating. Watching the Cowboys genuinely pains me.

I wrote about it earlier this year. It's embarrassing. I mean, their offense is just so bad and it's so uninventive and it's so backward in terms of what you should be doing with this team. I can't even deal with it. I just...

I really hope Travis Frederick comes back soon and they can actually run the ball again because it's really the only thing they have going for them. How do you not throw like four screens to Ezekiel Elliott a game? How do you not run every single pass you run should be a play action pass? I just don't get this. There are teams that don't use play action because it doesn't fit within their structure. The charges are the best play action team by yards per pass in the NFL.

But they don't run the ball that often. And when they do run the ball, it's usually out of shotgun. They're not an under center team. And not being an under center team kind of disallowed. you to be a play action team because it's not within just the bones of who you are as a team. The Cowboys are the opposite of that. They run the ball all the time from under center and they should be able to do this all the time and they just refuse to.

I just don't understand any of it. I have no idea what's going on in Dallas right now, dude. I just don't get it. I just really don't get it. It's just 40% of your passes should be play action. That's it. End of story. You should be doing what the Rams are doing.

you have no excuse not to. Scott Linnehan, baby. I'm serious. It's just one of those things where I honestly think that some offensive coordinators just get bored and they just want to do something different because they don't want to stick to doing the same thing over and over again.

It's like, oh, yeah, I want to show everyone how smart I am. I also think it's part of it as just like, just this weird notion that you need, that there are certain things you do to keep defenses off balance. So you have to mix it. Oh, we're going to be molded. We're going to be multiple. Just do what you do well.

Why don't you just win games instead of being multiple? It drives me crazy. All right. Seahawks at Rams. This is more about, I wanted to chat about the Seahawks. What do you think about Seattle where they stand right now? Do you feel like, I mean, they were right there with the Chargers last week. This defense has been pretty solid.

I think that they're going to be able to put up points against a Rams team that can't stop anybody. As a Bears fan that is kind of worried about the division with the way that Minnesota is starting to play. and maybe kind of eye on the wild card. Seattle is a team that does absolutely worry me. Yeah, no, look, I completely agree with you. I mean, I think that we had a discussion yesterday about just how good Russell Wilson is, and I think the answer is he's really, really good.

And so it just, I think this team, there's been a lot of comparisons to the 2012 team with the Seahawks. And I don't think that this is the 2012 team, mostly because I just don't anticipate there being a bunch of borderline Hall of Famers who were picked in the mid-round. I just don't think they got luck.

That's probably a safe assumption. Or, you know, it's not luck. It was good drafts. But I just don't see that sort of roster talent. But how many times have we seen the Seahawks team? And I think maybe because of the loss of talent, we didn't see this coming again. How many times have we seen this team start out three and three, four and four and three, whatever it is?

And then all of a sudden they've got 11 wins at the end of the season, 12 wins at the end of the season. And this team has pretty much figured out how to peak. in the modern NFL in December. It's happened a lot under Pete Carroll, but because they don't have an Earl Thomas, because Richard Sherman, you know, has been gone for this whole season,

even though he was out for most of last season. Because it's not the same cast of characters, we sort of dismissed them. But I absolutely believe, with the pieces they have, they can make a nice little playoff run in November and December. I, the one thing,

I was really down on the Seahawks team coming into the year, really down. them. And one of the reasons I was really down on them is that it's expected the offense to be as much of a mess as it had been in years past because of past protection. And one thing I did not account for coming into this season is that Tom Cable is the worst coach in the NFL at any position. And I knew he was very bad. Let's let me be clear about that. I knew he was very bad. What has been on display this season is that he is absolutely the worst position coach in the league. The Seahawks have a reasonable offensive line now.

They can survive. Those guys have played well, and it's mostly the same guys. The Raiders had the best offensive line in football like two years ago, and now they can't block anyone. And I know that's Donald Penn moving and a clutch of Semley's been hurt, whatever. There's still enough of them over there that it should not be this. I just cannot even comprehend how terrible of a job he has done over the last five years at these two stops. It's unbelievable. Yep.

Yep, it's unbelievable. And the defense is still there. And Bobby Wagner, I think, I think is the highest rated linebacker by PFF grade this year. He's fantastic. And the corners have been good. You know, the guys that we don't really know about Justin Coleman's been good. You know, Bradley McDougal's been good. Just guys that their ability to really develop defensive backs and have those guys be people you can lean on is super impressive.

I mean, Coleman's been fine. But McDougal's been really good. Thompson on the back end's been solid. They still have KJ right. Frank Clark is a good player. It's not a group of super stuff. but they play well together and the results have been undeniably impressive. Yeah.

I mean, that's it. You know, it's funny. The Wagner thing reminds me of a conversation out with Richard Sherman last year when he was saying that, you know, the Seahawks have been hugely punished by the fact they've had so many good players

on defense when it comes to award season. He was saying he doesn't understand why the Seahawks never, you know, they didn't have a defensive player of the year when they were so good, you know, when they had the best defense in the NFL. And he said it's because teams get punished. and before having good players around you. People don't really understand how to differentiate between defensive players. And now you see less talent on that defense.

Earl Thomas is gone. You see Richard Sherman. And the reason he was telling me about this was because he was talking about Bobby Wagner. And he's like, Bobby Wagner should be a defensive player of the year candidate every single year. In fact, you should win the award. And now you see it even more so because it's not the familiar cast of characters.

Bobby Wagner is really freaking good. Yeah, he really is. I think that they can absolutely give the ram. a run in this game. And we'll see me. David Moore's giving them a downfield element. Well, I mean, they almost gave him a run earlier in the season. That's what I'm saying. David Moore has been a downfield element for them. He's making plays. And the Rams secondary is still such a mess that you figured that Seattle can put up points in this game. And for the first time in a long time, I mean, Aaron Donald can still wreck any game, but it's not a Seattle

team where you think, oh, he's going to get five sacks and it's over. And that's a huge deal. All right. Let's get a Thursday night game. Panthers at Steelers. Good Thursday night game, man. I'm excited. It starts at 515 out here, which isn't as fun, but what are you going to do? I'm excited about this game. I'm really looking forward to this.

You know what I kind of like? I kind of like when these sort of fringe elite teams play each other. It's like when, like in boxing where they have title eliminators, do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like one of these teams we're going to just hype up on Friday as on the fringe,

as like the fifth best team in their conference. Yeah, as we should. Or the third, excuse me, the fifth best team in the NFL, third best team in their conference. What do you feel like we are not talking about the Steelers enough right now? I think that we're only talking about James Connor. Yeah.

I mean, but the Steelers as a team. Yeah. No, no, no. I totally agree with you. I think they're lurking. I really do.

This is a classic. First of all, do you see the Antonio Brown news? No. He was cited for going over 100 miles per hour Thursday morning. Man. On a, on a road.

What's the last time you drove 100, miles an hour in a car on a road that is apparently not conducive to that. What was your question? When's the last time you drove like 100 miles an hour in a car? I will not be commenting on that. It's been a long, long, long time for me. It has not been a long time for me. I don't drive very often though. I've become an old man when I drive now. I'm really just, I'm sticking like eight mile an hour over the speed limit with a cruise control on, mostly in the right lane. I've become very lame in my old age. To be fair, I'm mostly driving. Hyundai Sonatas and Nissan Centros and whatever I rent these days.

So not a lot. I did, they did give me a Dodge Challenger when I went to, the Cowboys camp, but I didn't really open it up on the PCH at all. Maybe I should have. It was a waste challenge. It's all they had.

It was cheaper than a mid-sized sedan. So I was like, all right, I guess I'll drive that. That sounds fun. But then I didn't have any fun with it. A couple years ago, they gave me a Chevy Corvette and at the rental car place,

and I didn't know how to drive it. Like, I literally, I'm like a really good driver. and I'm kind of a car nut, but they just literally did not know how to drive it. And so I wasn't paying attention to the speed limit. And so I'm going down, I'm in Georgia,

and I hear these cops behind me, and I was like, shit, what the hell did I do? And they pull me over. And I was like, how fast they're going? I can't even see the speedometer.

I don't understand this car. And they were like, sir, did you know you're going 35 miles per hour on the highway? It's like that scene from Black Sheep. Yeah. And I was like, wow.

Okay. Well, I really didn't understand. I thought I was going like 150. Okay. The beauty of the Corvette, man. That's the magic. This has been our Panther Steelers preview.

No, who do you like in this game? That's kind of where I'm sitting is. I'm really not sure what to think of the Steelers and how good they are. They were fantastic last week against the Ravens. And I know they only scored 26 points, but they believe they were 10 of 16 on third down. The way they controlled that game was so impressive. And Carolina is typically very good against running back passes. I think that that's something to keep an eye on.

Let's see if Connor can do any work in that realm because he was. was really good in that area last week. I do think this is the type of game where Antonio Brown could go off. Because that Carolina team, even when their defenses have been better than this one, they've often struggled with really good receivers in vertical ways.

Think about what Julio's been able to do to them at certain times. And I know that's when Bradbury and Worley were young. And Jackson and Bradbury have been fine this year, but I still think that Brown can go nuts and I still think that Ju-JU can have a big game. But I also think that this Carolina team can move the ball against the state.

They're not going to be able to run the ball extremely well because the Steelers run defense has been excellent. But I do think that they'll be able to attack that team in space because the linebackers have not been good in coverage. And I think that's the way that they can do some stuff. You get the ball to DJ Moore in space. If you get it to Curtis Samuel, if you have Christian McCaffrey working against those guys in the middle of the field,

I think there are going to be a lot of points in this game, and I think it's going to be really fun. I saw a stat, Keegan Abdu, tweeted this out, that Cam Newton runs, play action, fifth most of anybody in the league in Rathusberger, runs it the second lowest of anybody in the league. And so it'll be an interesting contrast here between those

two teams. I also, you know, I'm hugely impressed. The Steelers never run it. They haven't run it for years. Yeah. And, you know, the Steelers offensive line is really good. I think they're number one in, uh, I think they're the number one ranked PFF offensive line. Um, and so I, it's, it's stylistically

going to be a very interesting matchup. I'm, I think probably the Steelers win, but I, I, I wouldn't be surprised in anything. Let's get to my geeks out because it relates to what you just said. I love both offensive lines in this game for different reasons. The Panthers offensive line is not nearly as talented and is just playing good as the Steelers' offensive line.

But the way that the Panthers are able to scheme up the running game and create angles and everything else, that's something to watch because, you know, they are so good at getting those guys in advantageous spots and it's really allowed them to churn on the ground. And against this front, that's going to be difficult. You know, Toit and Hayward, it's as strong as guys come, especially on the interior. And it's going to be a slog, but watch the way that the Panthers try to get angles for their offensive linemen. And then on the other side, just watch how well the Steelers play together.

It's remarkable. Those guys have played together for so long now, they have such familiarity with each other. Pouncey's been excellent this year. De Castro always is their ability to understand where each other are going to be, how to come off blocks, when to do it. that's all a matter of familiarity and timing and just time together. And it just proves how much, how important that stuff is. They are the number one example in my mind of that in the NFL right now.

And it is a pleasure to watch where it's working. Yep. All right. What's your sneaky truth? And let's get out of here. Sneaky truth for me, Levyon Bell is, should not show up.

If he showed up right now, it would obviously take him a little bit to get acclimated. Maybe the Steelers don't even play him because James Connor has been what he's been. And that's not it. obviously Levy on Bell, in my opinion, is more talented James Connor, but it seems to me the tide is turned in that side of that building where they maybe don't like Levy on Bell a whole lot. But beyond that, there's a new report that he would get $25 million if he gets tagged again next year. There's just, they're not going to tag him.

I think the Steelers just done with Levy on Bell. I don't know what kind of stuff in the open market he could get, but I do know that it's, I don't think it's going to change now. I think that that ship has sailed. He probably should have played this year. he probably should have collected the 15 million he would have gotten. But that ship has sailed. So I would just,

I would just hang out. I'm with you. I see no upside to him playing. Absolutely none. All right. That's it. That's all we got for today. As always,

guys, thank you so much for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast network. We will be back to you on Sunday from Las Vegas. Yeah. Everybody come to Las Vegas. If you live in Vegas, please go check out tickets for our. We're going to be there

live event. Monday, not Sunday. The live event is on Monday. We will be having, we will be podcasting on Sunday as well as having a live crossover. Are we doing both? I don't know. I figured we do both.

I mean, we'll be together. It's fine. Yeah, we'll figure it out. But anyway, if you live in Vegas, please go check out the ticket link with at Cesar's.

Or just come, just move to Vegas. Or just move to Vegas. Just fly in for the weekend. Why not? All right, guys. Thank you so much for listening.

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