The Ringer NFL Show - September Is Now Meaningless in the NFL (Ep. 143)

Episode Date: September 19, 2017

The Ringer’s Robert Mays and Kevin Clark break down Week 2 in the NFL, including the reason why no one plays well in September (02:45), some serious flaws that the Patriots are facing (10:30), and where Drew Brees will play next season (hint: It’s NOT New Orleans) (13:45). Then, Kevin explains why the Cowboys will be just fine (18:00), Robert reveals his Ringer of the Week (20:00), and Danny Kelly joins the show to make a case for the Ravens as a Super Bowl contender (29:00). Finally, Robert and Kevin give their lasting impressions from Week 2, including how the NFL has a serious watchability problem (41:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's the ringer NFL show. Robert Mays here with Kevin people are always asking us what to bet on. Unfortunately, Kevin, we're brought to you by mybooky.ag. So we'd love to send people there. I don't bet on football, but I do know that whoever plays the Jets or these days the Giants is a good bet. But where you bet is just as important as what you bet on. It's all about mybooky.orgie.

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Visit mybooky.ag and use the promo code Ringer NFL to activate the offer. You play, you win, you get paid. Robert, it's that time of year when we start traveling over the country last minute and we have to stress about getting a cool hotel. I was in that boat this week. And the nice part is we don't really have to

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We're talking 10 seconds total. So what are you waiting for? Get in on these killer last minute deals and download the hotel tonight app now. To the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer podcast network. I'm Robert Mazed. Join as always by my friend Kevin Clark. Kevin, two weeks in, and I don't know. I'm still just as clueless as I was a week ago.

I am not coolest because I knew there'd be a Jim Caldwell Renaissance. Yeah, exactly, right? The Jim Caldwell was going to have a renaissance, the Chargers who I thought were going to be good, we're going to be terrible. The Broncos, they're just beating up people, like, including the Cowboys. We'll get into all of that. Do you really want to talk about this Giants Lions game very much? I just think the Giants might not be very good.

And I thought that coming into the season, and their offense is as bad as I thought it was going to be. I liked both of these teams. I talked both of these teams up in the summer months. I was actually very high on the lines at one point, but I didn't pick them to make the playoffs. But I feel good about where they're going. Just the Giants, man. I mean, what the hell?

Ben McAdoo throwing Eli Manning under the bus. I understand that Eli Manning played poorly yesterday, and it probably was his fault, but that's a bad enemy to pick when you're Ben freaking McAdoo. Well, to get to all this stuff, we've had a day to let week two soak in. So, a lot of stuff we'll be able to ruminate about. As always, we come to you on Tuesdays and Fridays.

Danny Kelly is going to be joining us today to talk about some things you may not have noticed. this weekend. But before we get into all of that, we're going to kick things off with our four downs, which is our four biggest stories from week two. All right, Kevin, get us started. Here we go. First and 10. What you got? The biggest thing for me in the early season now, do there's two concurrent things that I both believe to be true? Number one is that everyone is going to start slow now because of the lack of practice time in the training camp and just the collective bargaining agreement and the reality we live in now. Everybody says every single September and even early October, why are the

Seahawks starting so slow? Why? Why do the Packers, why does their offense look disjointed? And the reason is because the smartest teams in the NFL, and there are two teams I just mentioned, and you can maybe throw in the Patriots a little bit some of the time, a lot of times those teams use September as an experimental time because they know you haven't practiced enough to have a cohesive offense. You need to peak in November and December. And so the biggest thing for me, I remember Bill Belichick saying in the modern NFL, you really don't have your roster set until October.

There's so much roster churn. You can do it. You know, there are so many guys in the street now. It's just, and the expanded practice squads make everything a little different as well. You get a little different evaluation standpoint. So I think the biggest thing now in September, and it's a reality we have to realize is that you cannot overreact to this because the smart teams know what they're doing. We have to reserve judgment because the CBA limits, what, 14 padded practices per year. These guys are not getting the reps thing.

need to. And so teams are easing into it. 20 points per game through the first 30 games of the year. That's down, I think, four points per game overall from last year. Don't overreact to this. The teams know what they're doing. I think there's a real problem with the level of play in the NFL, but I think it's a little different than points per game and good teams losing early. I think it's more, the level of play argument is a little bit more about the short passes, obviously the sacks, the lack of offensive line, that sort of thing. But as far as just teams competing early on in the season, I think you got to withhold judgment because these teams know what they're doing.

I think that's a really good point. You're talking about the symptoms more than necessarily the full-floodd disease because last year we had the same conversation. Remember how desperately we needed that Cowboy Steelers game? It saved our souls in a way after the early part of the year. And it seems like we're heading toward a similar deal. The level of play is not very good. There's not a lot of teams scoring.

I think that it's going to get better, but you talking about some of the specifics and how those might not, I could listen to that. So the CBA part is really interesting. And I think that it's one of the reasons that some of the offensive line stuff is still stuck out to me because it's just about all the turnover. And if you think about how much musical offensive line play there was this off season, it was really just teams trading their crap for other teams crap. Like Matt Khalil going to Carolina, those two guys going to Minnesota, and Russell Kuhn heading to, San Diego from Denver. I mean, just all these guys going back and forth and back and forth. And it feels like it was a zero-sum game.

And I think that's why even if it's going to look better later, it's why it's looking so poor now because there's so much turnover guys haven't been able to get used to each other. And I totally agree with you on that. And I feel like that's where I want to go with my second downpoint here. That's why what's happening in ASE West right now is so impressive because those three teams, and I'll throw the chargers out for now, even though I think they'll be fine. They're not a bad team.

The three teams that are playing well, the three, three and O teams in that division, there are a couple instances where we have inner house changes. You know, the guys that are moving into new roles, that's how they were going to get better. But what the Broncos have done with all those new offensive linemen, with all the new coordinators, the coaching staff, the fact that they've been able to come in and hit the ground running, again, is one of the more, maybe the more impressive, most impressive thing in the league to me right now, just because there is such a high bar to do that based on the lack of time these teams have to come together.

With Oakland and Kansas City, it feels like there were pieces that fell into place for them. They're getting better play. Alex Smith isn't pushing the ball down in the field. Their offense is fining a couple of places. Cream Hunt was a nice addition. In Oakland, you have these very, not, Marshall Lynch is not subtle, but it's not a huge change. It's kind of an injection of something. Cordero Patterson is that way.

They have a couple new guys on defense. But what the Broncos has been able to do and just hit the ground running with all of this new stuff in play is very impressive to me. And I think that that division is the best in the league right now. It's comfortably so. I wrote that this week. I just didn't know it would be because the Broncos would be such a formidable team this early. Do you see three teams in the AFC West making the playoffs?

Right now, it would be hard not to say that. I just don't think the secondary teams in those other divisions are going to step up and do that. I mean, think about everywhere else. In the AFC South, we assumed Houston might be there. They're not. I mean, they are just not a good team. And then you look at the AFC North and the Bengals are, disaster. The Browns are going to be bad. The Ravens are 2 and O, but who knows about the Ravens?

I mean, Marshall Yonda just got hurt. They haven't played any good teams. They beat up on Cleveland and Cincinnati, who might be two of the worst teams in the league right now. So it just doesn't seem like there's any good secondary candidates outside of that division. It's interesting to me. I think that having a lot of young guys is a good sign that you're going to start really slow in September, October. I talked to Mike McCarthy about this, really the last two summers. Just as far as working those guys in, that's usually, you know, the Seahawks have so many young guys always. They're always roster turning. I think, you know, basically no one makes more transactions in the NFL over the last seven years than Pete Carroll.

And so he loves you on drafted free agents and that's maybe why these teams start slow. What's interesting to me is that in Kansas City, you have a rookie cream hunt and he's hit the ground running. I mean, Ty Hill is only in his second year. And so it's really interesting to me that the chiefs are able to do this, even though Alex Smith is a veteran, even though that offensive line is generally a veteran line and the defense is veteran, they're still working some parts in and they still look good. And that's what's impressing me if we're going to tie that into the collective bargaining thing

because I really do think you can't overstate that in the first couple of weeks of the season, the influence that that has. I agree with you. And I think that, but even in Denver, they're not necessarily young guys, but they're new guys. And just the fact that Mike McCoy,

I know he's worked with a couple of these guys previously. Love the Mike McCoy Renaissance. I mean, he's. Mike McCoy and Jim Caldwell are two greatest minds right now. Well, Mike McCoy, I mean, he got his job based on just tearing teams apart, but it was with Peyton Manning. I mean, that's always tough. And then he comes in, I watched that game again this morning.

And, man, it was just so impressive. I mean, they all, the understanding to run those kind of whip routes, like the stop and goes that we're making the Cowboys defenders fall over, you really need to know it's going to be man. I mean, that's how you defeat those. And his understanding of situation and how to create space for his guys, it was really impressive. And I know Dallas was playing without a couple corners.

but I still think he's done an excellent job. And I didn't give that enough credit when I was thinking about how good could this team be, the fact that he was going to consistently put Trevor Simeon and some pretty good receivers, CJ Anderson Renaissance, Jamal Charles looked good. They just, they've impressed me in a big way in pretty much every single way. Does my picking the Broncos make the playoffs make up for my short of the Chiefs? Because it was pretty, I feel bad about shorting the Chiefs. Well, I sure the Chiefs and I'd pick the Broncos to be bad.

So I think that you're definitely in a better spot than I am. I can say that. I mean, I just, I should have felt that coming. I met with Brett Feach in August. Obviously, you know, I've met with John Dorsey many times and I was so impressed. And I thought there would be a subtraction by subtraction kind of thing when Dorsey left and you lose Macklin and all that. But I don't know.

I should have felt that coming and I didn't. I'm disappointed to myself for not seeing the Chiefs and their talent. I'm disappointed myself for that and for Denver. All right, buddy, what's third down here? New England Patriots. This is another two-sided thing. Number one, I'm worried about the offensive depth. That's obvious.

You lose Edelman for the year. Malcolm Mitchell is out. Danny Amandolazic inccussion, Rob Grunkowski, injured his groin. And obviously he has the back. So you're getting into a situation where Philip Dorset is a featured player. He's doing the picks on the pick route. He's catching passes. Brady looks like he's trying to get the trust going between him and Dorset.

There are not a lot of guys who are just walking around now free. I mean, you're not going to be able to sign a guy who's going to be an impact player. They gave away Austin Carr to New Orleans off the practice squad, who I think everybody in New England liked. And so I don't know where the Patriots offense goes from here. Having said that, is that a fatal flaw for you? Because it's not for me. I'm worried about them from the macro sense,

but I still think they're going to start the season six and two and win the AFC East and they can still win the Super Bowl. They just need to get one or two of these guys healthy. If Malcolm Mitchell comes back, if Danny Amandola comes back, if Grunk is 75% they're going to be fine. I think the Patriots are a deeply flawed team, but I think in a league of flaws, they're doing okay. Yeah, I'm not too worried about it.

I feel like Gromk is the biggest question there, obviously. We've seen them succeed without him, but that we've seen them succeed with Edelman, you know, a couple other guys. I feel like middle of the field passing options, especially if Abadol is going to be gone for a while. That's a concern. I like what they can do with the backs. And the fact that you can use White and Burkhead in these creative ways.

You can give yourself some easy outlets. James White rules, man. There's enough stuff there. That doesn't worry me. It's always shitty to see Gron get hurt and to think about what they have to be like without him and all that stuff. It kind of seems like it's our constant environment now. It's just the way we exist. So I don't, I'd like him to come back.

I hope that's not serious. But even if he is dinged up, he's dinged up most of the time, that they're able to not only survive, but thrive while he's hurt. And even if he is, I think they'll be totally okay. I mean, I just think that there are so many guys, even outside of the receivers, I understand your concern, but I feel like there are just enough options there. And I'm going to talk about this a little bit later, just what that provides teams. I think they have enough guys in every area of the field will be okay.

I, I, my, my concern. is just Brady is one of these guys like Rogers. He really has to trust a guy to throw the ball to him, and it takes a while. And so the deeper you get on that depth chart, the more hesitant, maybe the offense will look. And so I'm intrigued to see what happens there. Again, the Patriots are going to fly to the AFC title.

I mean, there's no, I said we'd overreact either way after the Chiefs game. If, you know, if they struggled, they would be, they would, you know, it'd be, oh, it's crisis time in New England. and if they won by 16 points, which they did, we'd be saying they were back. I think they're actually, I think they're going to be fine. I mean,

they have the Texans this week. They're going to absolutely destroy the Texans. And they have a Panthers team who apparently can't score. So I think, you know, you're looking at three and one. I'm going to go on the flip side of that game for a fourth down here. I think the Saints were we,

we're looking at the end of an era. I mean, I know it's two games in, but nothing feels like. The seven and nine era? Because that looks pretty good. And Jean-Paid and Drew has been there for a decade. Yeah.

I mean, It's have a coach and quarterback be connected to the hip like that for so long. It's, we don't see it there often. And I think one of the reasons that we have is because that formula makes sense to me. It always has. Let's have a top five offense every single year and let's see if we can get the defense. I understand that if you're building a team, especially when you have a quarterback like Drew Breeze. And it looks like, I know it's only two games in.

They do a lot of young guys, but you're 0 and 2 already. And if you don't find that defense, the offense can't. take a step back. You cannot afford it whatsoever. And this offense does not look like it's tearing people apart. I mean, that Patriots team got wrecked by the chiefs. And the Saints did not move the ball at will. It's not as if they marched up and down the field. And if your defense is going to play like that, the offense has to be one of the best in football. And if we get here again, if it's six and 10, seven to nine, if the defense finishes 30th and DVOA and the offense is, you know, the bottom of the top 10 even, I mean, this is over. I think Sean Peyton has gone out.

after this year. They have the contract situation with Breeze where it voids after the season, a ton of dead money. So now you're looking at $18 million with a dead money for your quarterback if you let them go. You don't have a head coach. Pretty much everything about how you identified as a franchise for 11 years is gone. And you're not necessarily in the best salary cap spot.

They're going to have more money because Breeze isn't making actual market value. It's just like a big albatross sitting there. But it still is one of those things where I can't imagine what this team is going to look like next year of Drew Breeze and Sean Payton are not there. It's so weird to consider it. So I think Breeze is gone. I don't know about Sean Payton. Sean Payton signed, I think, a $45 million extension in, I want to say, 2016. And so I don't know what the money situation there is and whether or not another team is going to say, we'll pay Sean Payton that much because, I mean, Sean Payton very slowly, we didn't notice, turned into Jeff Fisher. I mean, just as far as

kind of a ghost ship, you know, treading towards seven and nine. A different sort of ghost ship. He's the offensive. The offensive Jeff Fisher, right? It's a faster, shinier ghost ship, but it's still his one, yes. Drew Breeze, where is he playing next year?

I don't know. Because it's a great question. Because if they go seven and nine, if they go seven and nine, or six and ten, where Drew Breeze is playing next year is as intriguing as any question next year. The actual answer is, I don't know, tell me.

I don't know what the actual answer is, but I think the one that makes the most sense to me is Jacksonville. You draft a quarterback, you have Drew Breeze come in. I mean, that team is not that far away from being relevant, and I think that he would go a long way to do that. I'm not sure if you want to build your team that way, but just in terms of what quarterback needs or what team needs a quarterback dropped into whatever they're doing, that's the first team that comes to mind for me.

So I think there's two ways to look at this. You can see the Jaguars are going to, they're trying to build a team. They're going to be cognizant of the salary cap of all that stuff. I'm predicting like a one year $22 million offer from the New York Jets. Just a total overpay that everyone knows is a disaster. That sounds awful though. I mean, can you imagine him being,

if you were Drew Brees, why the hell would you do that? Because it's a one-year $22 million offer that I just fake offer for Drew Brees. God, that sounds horrendous. Yeah, the Jags are pretty much, we're done kicking the can down the road here. 14.4 million in Capspace next year. And, I mean, that's with Bortles is $19 million on there, which, God, just even looking that is horrendous. Is that fifth year option?

Yes. Great stuff. God, they pick that up. Yes. Excellent. I mean, you could get rid of that, but it still is one of those things where, Yeesh. Just looking at it is terrible. It's not good. It's not good.

Each Tuesday, you and I are going to do our own short segment where we point some things out. You know, in a way that you and I look at them, which is very different ways. So this one is right up your alley. It is Kevin's craziest headline from the weekend. Go nuts. This is everyone. I singled out Sports Illustrated last week. I'm going to single out every single media outlet.

I just Googled it real quick. USA Today. Is the Cowboys offense in trouble? Can we stop? Can we, and this goes to, you know, again, the Seahawks scored 12 points against a fairly okay Niners defense. There are a lot, the Green Bay Packers have looked weird in the first two weeks of the season. I just love how you said that. I don't disagree at all.

It just is really funny. They looked weird. They look, everything looks weird. It's kind of weird, man. No, I get it. That's the adjective. So, so, so, so my general thought on the Cowboys. is they're in the same boat as everybody else.

However, we talked about this last week. There are very, very, very few things we know in the NFL that are as predictable as what the Cowboys offense will look like over 16 games this year. Offensive line is fine. The running game is fine. Dak Prescott off of play action is going to be fine and the skill position players are going to be fine.

We know almost everything. And aside from Tom Brady figuring out new receivers or Aaron Rogers, you know, doing Aaron Rogers things. I mean, we know what this offense will look like in week six. And so this idea they have one bad game against a really good Denver defense on the road in a lightning delay. You know, the Ezekiel Elliott, you know, quitting on an interception thing, I think that is a big deal. And I think that hopefully there's some fire that gets lit under him that that doesn't happen again.

But overall, just as far as what the offense looks like, I am not worried. stop overreacting. It's September 19th. I agree with you, and I think that it actually fits into what my segment is that we're going to do every week, and it's my ringer of the week, which is a guy that you may not have noticed

it didn't necessarily fill up the stat sheet, but affected the game in a really big way. And the guy I want to point to is Shaq Barrett on the Broncos. And you talking about how good that Denver defense is, we talk about this with the Seahawks, I think you and I did on a podcast before the season, how the reason they're able to sustain this level of great, is that it seems like every single year a new guy becomes a star that we didn't expect.

It's just this shuffling of who the most important players on your unit are while having no weaknesses. And it seems like Denver does that now, too. You know, Derek Wolf had a big season last year. Now you have every corner, you know, Courtney, when Roby got really good. You know, I just call him Courtney Roeby. His name is Bradley Roeby. Courtney Roeby was a guy that played like 10 years ago.

I just one of those ones I always screw up. But it's every single, it's like a step back and a step forward. You know, some guy steps up when guys take. marginal steps back. And that's how you stay really good. And Shaq Barrett has done such a great job this year in the first two games. And he didn't even expect to be the starter. You know, when we were thinking about how are they going to replace Shane Ray,

or how they're going to place to Marcus Ware, it was with Shane Ray. And Barrett has come in across from Von Miller and just done everything they've asked of him. He was excellent on Sunday. And the things that are most impressive were twofold to me. One, he was able to make noise as a pass rusher against Tyron Smith. you know, most, a lot of his damage came on stunts, which has its own little skill set that you need to be good at, just change of direction and timing and patience.

And he was excellent at all of that and bothered Prescott a lot more than you, again, you would read. He didn't have a sack and he get one hit, but he was around his feet a lot. But he also beat Smith just straight up a couple times. And that was impressive to me. And the other thing is that against this Dallas offense, you really need a right edge player who's going to be disciplined. because if they want, what they want to do when they're not able to just line up and beat you up is use the numbers,

use deception, create some problems with Prescott as a ball carrier to give themselves an advantage. And Barrett's ability not only to play those downs with great leverage and patience and just in a smart way, he was able to make plays on some of those, which is so impressive to do. So few guys can time it up just right

where you make the quarterback, make the wrong decision, and that can also make the tackle, a yard off the line of scrimmage. Barrett did that a lot. He finished the game with seven tackles. I just think that that is a real testament to how seamless their coaching transition has been from Phillips to Woods now.

The fact that that unit is not only playing very well, but getting the most out of secondary players. Bandsch is a pretty damn good coach. Yeah. I mean, that is, I really am impressed. I got, they have done a great job.

And I am more than willing to admit how wrong I was. They have blown out away all of my expectations. on both sides of the ball. And this is the reason for that. It's not about Von Miller being good. He's going to be good. It's can you continue to find contributors on the second tier of your defense

to really make up for any of the small steps back you're always going to take year to year. And so far it looks like they've been able to do that. I hate to beat a dead horse here, but it doesn't take much to be a great unit in the NFL on certain sides of the ball this year because, again, the league is a little thin right now. So if you have a good defensive loss,

as they do, and you have a good secondary, which they do, I know they lost T.J. Award, but T.J. Award was bad. You're going to be a great defense. That's how this works. And so I, that's sort of why I picked the Broncos to make the playoffs. It's just they have a lot of defensive talent. Now, having said that, so to the Giants. But, you know, I don't know what's going on with Norris Jenkins and also the team sucks. But see, that's what I was saying about the Broncos coming to the year. I expect them to be a top five defense. I just thought the offense would be actively bad. And to see them be, you know, this defense can continue to be that, and then the offense kind of beat people up for two straight weeks,

that is the recipe to a very good team. And I just didn't expect the second half of that to be a reality. Trevor Simeon looks no closer to being, looking like an NFL quarterback than he did last year. Can he do, can we like do someone with his hair or something? I thought you meant his play. And I was like,

I don't know. No, no, I don't care about his play. I don't care. I just legitimately, I saw him. I saw him on, we Van Pelt talked to him during halftime yesterday.

and it just looked, he looked ridiculous. I mean, even Andy Dalton did that weird Mohawk thing. Yeah, that was the Renaissance. That was when Andy Dalton got good for that one year. Has everyone contributed to the hair? Yeah. I don't, don't, don't, I think Trevor Simions are fine NFL quarterback. I don't, you know, whatever.

He's done a really good job running that offense. He's not looking anything less like Ed Helms and he was last year. I almost have gotten to the point. I watched that game again. I watched the Broncos game again this morning. And I watched Gary Bowles a lot for the game just to see how well he played and how big of a loss it is. for them.

He's only had a couple weeks, right? That's big. I hope so because he looked great. I mean, just, it's not a great pass rush. And I feel like DeMarcus Lawrence roasted like Watson a few times. That's going to be a problem.

I think Lawrence is a better player than people are going to give credit to. But Watson is not a great right tackle. But Bulls was, he just looks comfortable. He looked really good. They've been able to really rebuild that offense on a fly, especially up front.

And Simian's able to run it. I mean, a lot of play action, seems comfortable doing it. His best throw of the day. was one to Benny Fowler into the goal line that was just out of bounds. It was like a cannon shot. I was like, wow.

Did not expect to see that. Again, stuff that doesn't show up, but he looked good. And that entire offense looked good. All right, bud. The ringer's own, Danny Kelly, he's going to be joining us next. He's taking a look at the tape.

He's got some revelations that he wants to share with us. Always fun to check in on football with Danny Kelly nerd out a little bit. Also, some things from week two that are leaving a lasting impression on Robert and I. We'll get back to that after a quick break. buying tickets to sporting events and concerts can be complicated and annoying,

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That actually doesn't make any sense to me either, and I'm not even a business owner. I am not a business owner either, but to me, it sounds like some of them have outgrown their business management software. Quickbooks and spreadsheets may have worked fine at the start, but there are now too many mistakes, too many delays. At this point, you're better than that. You know it. It's probably time for people to try the number one business management solution for growing companies, NetSuite from Oracle.

Yep, NetSuite lets you know what's going on with your business in real time, revenues, expenses, customers, orders, even your HR. You can run your business from a dashboard on your phone, Kevin. Your phone! Now, I might start a business if you can run it from your phone. phone. It's very millennial. Right up our alley, and with this type of hands-on help, you're up and running fast. That's why thousands of companies across America use NetSuite.

It's 10-time larger than it's nearest competitor. It's the last business system you will ever need. So go to NetSuite.com slash football to get your free guide called Overcoming Your Five Obstacles to Growth. That's NetSuite.com slash football. To get your free guide and to find out how NetSuite can simplify your life, go to netsuite.com slash football. Time now to welcome in our good friend Danny Kelly. Danny sees things that no one else sees every week.

Danny, you're a visionary, my friend. And that's why we always appreciate you. It is time to geek out. So I want to know what is on your mind from week two. I'm looking at the Ravens run game this week, you guys. What a weird thing to say. That is not what I expected you to say. So last year, I mean, the Ravens had one of the worst run games in the NFL.

They finished 30th in attempts, just 23 a game. That was a franchise low for. them. They led the NFL in passing attempts. They were 28th and rushing yards for a game. I mean, they were just a terrible, terrible run team last year. You don't have to say, you don't have to say run team, Danny. Their best offensive weapon was Justin

Tucker from 55 yards. Well, I want to make it clear. I love their defense, but last, I mean, so last year they just couldn't run the ball at all. And they brought in Greg Roman during the offseason to kind of revamp some things. They switched to, I mean, I don't know what, like, exactly

they switched you, but they're going a little bit more power O heavy kind of doing the Greg Roman thing. And through two games, they look really, really good. I mean, they're second in attempts, just 37 per game.

They're fourth in rush yards. I mean, they are just, they're dominating on the ground. And so I'm wondering, you know, last year, they weren't going to win on just their defense alone.

And, you know, you guys, I know how you guys probably feel about Joe Flacco, but if they have a run game, if they have a dominant run game, this, to me, makes them almost a Super Bowl contender,

because that defense is so good. I have a couple concerns about this. One, they didn't exactly play, you know, last year's giants in terms of their defense, the first couple of games. Cleveland is not built necessarily to stop people up front in that way. I think that they'll be able to rush the pastor when everyone's healthy eventually, but it's not surprising to me that a team could push them around on the ground. Two, no Marshall Yon does a problem.

Huge problem. I mean, I wrote about this this week. I tweeted about it. He's a Hall of Fame player, in my opinion. He's the best player at his position. been for the better part of a decade. It's shitty for football, but also for the Ravens. Like that guy in that locker room is a huge deal.

And I think that in that offense, he's the most important presence, and they're going to miss him. And I'm going to miss watching him. It's a shame that a guy at 33 near the tail end of his career that like maybe one or two all pro teams away from making Canton eventually loses an entire season. It's a real bummer. So it's interesting. You said they might be a Super Bowl contender. I love some people on the Ravens, individual people.

I think Justin Tucker is one of the most interesting people in football. I love people all through that facility. Having said that, I thought that. I said, I love people. I was like, that's new for you, Kevin, you don't like anybody. Having said that, I like Justin Tucker.

Having said that, I would not believe this Ravens were a Super Bowl contender if they were on the ground in Minneapolis and an hour from kickoff at the Super Bowl. I'd be like, I don't buy it, guys. I don't buy it. I know they're here. I know I've been talking to them all week, and they're literally in the stadium ready to play,

but this is not happening. I mean, I just, Flacco, to me, you know, the run in 2012 was just incredible, and I think that he should be commended for, and it should definitely go on the Mount Rush more of getting hot at the right time. Yeah.

But I just think they have too many holes and the yonda thing, but I love this topic, Danny Kelly. Well, here, let me be clear. I'm not saying they are a Super Bowl contender. I'm saying they're saying they are the Super Bowl contender. You have been written in blood. I'm saying if this run game is for real.

And I think that Yonda thing is definitely a huge hindrance to that. And we could see them completely fall off going forward. And anytime you're in week two, you're talking about week two teams. It's a small sample size. So you know, you just never really know what anything means this early in the year. But I mean, with a really, really solid run game and a really, I mean, they're in elite defense. I mean, we saw the Broncos win a couple years ago with that kind of formula.

So to me, I'm not saying they are a Super Bowl contender, but if that run game is for real, that gives them a much, much better chance than they were last year in terms of, you know, just having a little bit of balance. And, you know, it's still just kind of a wide open field right now, I think, in the NFC. And so, I don't know. Totally great. Just to me, it's an interesting thought.

I'm not saying, don't put me on record yet. But I'm saying if that run game is real, it makes them, to me, sort of an interesting team in the conference. Danny, you know that this goes out to other people, right? Dan, I always forget that. We're recording. The phone conversation with us. What makes me excited about them just as having their floor as a team.

Again, I think the upside is limited just with Yonda, flaco, everything else on offense. But their defense, they can afford to get hurt in a couple places, which is like so few teams in the league you could say that about. because Marlon Humphrey came in and played decent for like, I don't know, like a dozen snaps maybe on Sunday. So if you lose, say, Brandon Carr, who also play decent, you have guys behind him. They have past rushing depth. It's just one of those things where their defense is going to be good because there are so few ways that it can go south quickly.

And you can't say that about really anybody. Depth is huge, man. That's, it's a battle of attrition every single year. So I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. I mean, I'm not claiming anything at this point. And obviously everything I feel like we talk about is kind of,

just up for a lot of different, you know, there's just so many different things that could happen over the next 15, 16 weeks. Yeah. Let's stay on the ground, buddy. You also have an article coming out today about young fantasy running backs. Let's chat about that a bit. What, uh, just give me some snippets.

What are you thinking about? Yeah, so basically I was looking at some of the, you know, just the fantasy landscape right now. And it's kind of interesting to me that rookie running backs. Teams are leaning on rookie running backs a lot more than we've seen in the last couple years.

I mean, six guys so far. have carried the ball 20 times for their team. Last year at this time, there was just one, Ezekiel Elliott. And years before that, I think in 2015, there was four guys that had done it, and then 2014 and 2013, just one each. So teams are really leaning on those rookie running backs this year. I think we're seeing a little bit of a changing of the guard with a lot of teams.

I mean, obviously with Kareem Hunt, Leonard Farnett, and Dalvin Cook, those guys look like kind of franchise cornerstone-type running backs. And then you got guys on other teams that are sort of starting. to potentially take over. You got P. Ryan in Washington with Kelly getting a rib injury. You got Chris Carson in Seattle. You got, I mean, I even think Donta Foreman, Deonta Foreman could be.

He looks better. He looks better. Every time he touches the ball, he looks better. I mean, we see this every year, but I don't understand why it takes so long. In the same vein, how long was it going to take Kareem Hunt to get in the game if what's his name hadn't gotten hurt?

Exactly. I mean, that's what I want to know. Yes. How quickly he becomes what's his name? Well, I'm just saying. If you watch Kareem Hunt right now, and I've seen Spencer Ware play for a couple years, Spencer Ware is fine. He's a very useful NFL running back. Spencer Ware was really going to take away snaps from Kareem Hunt.

It was going to happen. It was going to happen probably for like the first six weeks. I know. It's just beyond me. And I think that Foreman's the same kind of way. I mean, with these running backs, I just think more teams just have to say at the beginning, our second guy is better. He should play.

And Carson's the same way, Danny. We saw this last week. I watched Elysian do whatever he did against Green Bay. And every time Carson touched the ball, it was like, yo, that dude's just better at football. I don't understand what's going on here. He's just more explosive. And we talked about this a couple of weeks ago, Robert.

And I actually, I credited you in the piece because I thought it was a really interesting point you brought up. And it's just you guys with fresh legs and guys with explosiveness. And you know, like you can actually see these guys just look faster than everyone else on the field. I mean, that's just huge, I think, this year, especially with so much, so many issues on the, offensive line everywhere. You just have to have guys that can create on their own. Isn't this kind of grim? Like when you think about the running back position, it's actually kind of a bummer

because almost all the production comes almost in the first two years for the vast majority of the league. Obviously there's going to be exceptions. They do the rookie contract and they're basically out of the league. I mean, they're done. It's awful. Like Alfred Morris getting a second contract to be a bit player in Dallas is the exception, not the

rule. The new standard is going to be to star in your first two years and be out of the league in year five. It is. And one of those things was kind of shocking watching Denver is how explosive and powerful C.J. Anderson looked and how good Jamal Charles was. It's like that I just did not expect. If you're not 22, it just doesn't seem like you can move like that anymore. Yeah, both of those guys missed a lot of time.

So yeah, I mean, that's true. Yeah, I told you. As I was even saying it, I was thinking that, I was like, man, this is really dark. It is. You know, it's like, because these guys become so expendable. I did a story last year, or excuse me, over the offseason, about this thing called a split contract, which is essentially where the risk is all put on the player,

and if you get hurt, you don't get paid. That is essentially, or you get paid a significantly smaller amount than if you stayed healthy. It's a horrendous thing that the NFL does. And a lot of those guys are running backs you've heard of. Like, Ronnie Hillman had to sign one last year, and the year before that, because running backs are just,

they are the most, I don't know how to say it. They have the least leverage in a sport in which no one has leverage. And it's kind of a bummer to watch. Yeah. I mean, think about even guys, maybe on Bell was on,

it hasn't gotten an extension. I mean, the fact that he's on the franchise tag and what he is every, every single year. The fact that David Johnson is going to miss this season. And it's going to be,

I believe, going into a contract year next year, correct? Yeah. I mean, it's, all that stuff. I mean, it just,

no matter how good you are, no matter what you can provide to your team, there's still such a limited market for you because of nutrition and the injuries, everything. We've reached the point, and this never happens. We've reached the point where Levi-on-Bel signing an extension of the Steelers

is almost not the right move. As far as from the Steelers standpoint, just because of the way running backs age, and the way the game has changed. It's not a good place. to be a running back. I mean, we talk about the 30, like the age of 30 cutoff for a lot of players. Like for running backs, it's 27 at the most.

Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. After your rookie contract is over. I mean, that's where we're sitting. It's that first deal is when you're going to be able to be a super effective player. And again, David Johnson and Levion Bell, I'm not saying it's over for them. No. They're both very good.

But you're seeing it already. The fact that is the bells, I mean, I hope not. I'm just, I think that's more of a hopeful statement for me. It might be. Like, that's the way things are happening. All right, Danny. Thanks for really bumming us out here. Jesus.

Morning, I really appreciate it. That wasn't my goal, but, man, I'm like really sad now. When do they become a competent team and win the Super Bowl? Oh, usually around like November. Hey, do you have, I keep asking people inside the NFL and you know more about the Seahawks and people inside the NFL. Why don't they peak until November? What is the actual tangible reason? I think it's because they actually

like hold their cards pretty close I actually think that's that too Pete Carroll's talked about that how you don't win games until the fourth quarter and I think he also believes you don't win seasons until November or December I mean you saw it on Sunday Garbage that's the New England thing too

It's true We saw it on Sunday I mean they didn't start running Russell Wilson until the fourth quarter when they were down you know like they needed to score desperately in order to win that's when they started breaking out the Russell Wilson runs and so it's weird

They just, I think they, they don't want people to see too much. Like, they don't want people to see their cards until like they absolutely have to use them. Do you know what they've been hiding from the world? Their offensive line is the best in football. The greatest trick of Tom Cable ever pulled. It's going to be elite come January. All right, Danny, thanks, buddy. We will be back with you on Friday.

We always appreciate it. Talk to you soon. All right, sounds good, guys. All right, Kevin, before we get out of here, we want to offer our lasting impressions from week two. These are things that are going to stick with us. as we move forward all week, the stuff that I just can't really get out of my head.

Let me go with yours first. The NFL has a problem, and it's a watchability problem. If everyone thinks the game is ugly, then it's ugly. No amount of data about yards per attempt or completion of percentage is going to change that. Essentially what happens,

and I have a story on the ringer.com about this on Tuesday, it's up now. Essentially what's happening is that all of these quarterbacks who have been trained in seven-on-sevents are vaguely competent and can do whatever is asked to them of them to an extent. And what that means is wide receiver screens, bubble screens, throwing four yards down the field, all the things we're seeing every Sunday. They don't want to make mistakes because of the media environment, because of the way football is developed,

it's better to, as Chris Sims told me, live to play another down than chuck it down the field. It is a checked down league almost. And it is discouraging to watch. And it's going to be a huge problem. I think that the NFL is going to realize in the next 10 to 15 years that the sports world, to borrow a cliche, is flat. And that a millennial can pick up a phone and watch Leonel Messi or watch Namar or watch Steph Curry in the same way that they used to be able to throw on a network TV and only see football. They're going to lose that advantage as TV becomes less and less important. And they have to find a way to become visually arresting because they are not that right now.

There are massive overstatements being said about the watchability of the league. It's not dying. It's not. The ratings are a problem, but they're not in crisis mode. The NBA would kill for the NFL's ratings on a week-to-week basis, and especially games like the NFC championship game, which got 46 million viewers last year. That's incredible. Having said that, going forward, it's going to be a problem. They have to figure out a way to make this game look more fun because if not, it's not going to be a pretty future.

And piggybacking off that, my point was just kind of in that scope and with that reality hanging over us. The offenses around the league right now that have been able to utilize every single piece they have in creative, efficient ways stick out more than they have to me ever before. I'm thinking about a couple different teams from this past week. We've mentioned Denver a few times. They're in there in a way I never thought they would be. But understanding what Emmanuel Sanders is good at, how to get the ball on C.J. Anderson's hands. using your entire roster and your entire depth chart, not only doing it out of obligation,

we see that all the time. Teams have gadget players that use gadget plays now within the rhythm of what they want to do offensively, and that doesn't work. But understanding how to implement all of those pieces within the flow of who you want to be as a team, watching the Raiders do that, even against the Jets, is so beautiful.

And that is very rare right now. There isn't much beautiful football. But to see Jalen Richard and Correll Patterson, even D'Andre Washington, just understand who they're supposed to be within that system, how they play off of Marchion Lynch, what they are and what he is, and especially what they are not. And that is how offensive coaches have to approach what they want to do right now. Who am I and who am I not? I know what Michael Crabtree can do, and that's when I get near the goal line and he's single covered.

I'm throwing it to him and I don't care. Not every player can do that. And understanding how to put your pieces in spots two, seed is something that not enough coaches understand right now. Tennessee did the same thing this week. Tewan Taylor catching a long pass. John Hsu Smith running a tight end screen in for a touchdown. Having Derek Henry is a secondary back that you can lean on for 14 carries a game.

Having these deep, excellent stables of skill position players matters, but knowing how to use them and knowing how to use them in relation to the rest of your roster does as well. You can sign Brandon Marshall, you can draft Evan Ingram in the first round. It doesn't matter if you don't get the way they. fit into who you are and what your identity is as a team. And the teams that do that, they're going to stick out like you can never imagine. They are going to be the thing you remember and the highlights and everything else that people are trying to talk about with saving this game and making it watchable again because

those teams are just fewer and further between than I can ever remember. I have some good news, Robert. What's up, buddy? We have a watchability crisis in the NFL. Colts Brown Sunday. Let's do that. I'm very ready. That's the one game I had circled on my calendar.

Preset, Kaiser, let's do it. Pagano. Hugh Jackson. I still feel okay about the Browns. I'm not ready to jump off that quite. In the middle of the game. Oh, God. All right.

That's it for today. We'll be back on Friday to get you all set for pretty much just Browns. What was those two? Browns, Colt. We'll be reviewing Niners Rams. Oh, gosh. That will be talking about how the NFL is watching. The Rensibility crisis is over after that horse shit game.

It's going to be a good one. As always, thank you for listening to The Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network. Thanks, guys. Things change. The weather changes. Your mood definitely changes. So why lock yourself into plans that might change? With Hotel Tonight, you don't have to because you get incredible deals on awesome hotels even at the last minute.

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