The Ringer NFL Show - Silly or Serious: Lamar and Tua Drop Weight, New Kickoff Rules, Caleb Williams and Drake Maye OTA Reports, and More

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

Sheil, Nora, and Steven take a look at recent NFL headlines and decide whether we should take them seriously or whether they're just silly offseason news items. They discuss Vikings trade rumors, quarterbacks who have lost weight, rookie quarterback OTA reports, and more. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia, Nora Princiotti, and Steven Ruiz Producer: Isaiah Blakely Social: Kiera Givens Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Brian Curtis from The Ringer, and I want to tell you about the Press Box podcast. The Press Box is a podcast for anybody who likes news, whether it's about sports or politics or pop culture, and wants to understand how that news really gets made. We have news shows every Monday and Thursday. We have long interviews with everyone from John Crackhour to Joe Buck. Your social media feeds are bursting with information every day. Let us help you sort it out. join us on the press box.

Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. Shield Capati here, joined by my friends, Nora Prenziotti and Stephen Ruiz, great teammates who, when a man has to take his parents to the airport and their flight gets delayed and he says, can we push the podcast back?

They say no problem. So Ruiz, thank you for that. Yeah, no problem. Now, if you would have said, can we move the pod up an extra 30 minutes, then I would have pushed back because any time you give me extra time to not do work,

Like, I'm going to take it. So you're giving me too much credit or giving us too much credit for this. Nora, and thank you too. I mean, just, yeah, let's move it back. We're all good here. So thank you. Wishing the Capadia squad, save travels. Hope you had a lovely, lovely long weekend with the fam.

Thank you. I did. You see that the Capadias, we base our family thing on guilt. So it's like if you say, I can't take you now because your flight got pushed back, I would be hearing about that for a long time. So trust me, this is in the best interest for everybody. Airport pick up and drop off, I think is a lost art. Now, this depends on where you live.

I used to live in Boston, in the city of Boston, where I was about 12 minutes door to door from my apartment to Logan Airport. That is obviously one thing. I don't want this take to come back and haunt me if someone wants me to drive them to JFK at rush hour. Also, I don't have a car. But I do, I think that I think that favor doing for friends and families. is becoming something that in our era of convenience and also of like protecting yourself and taking care of yourself and setting boundaries is becoming something where it's like we don't do these things for the people that we love. And I think that's a shame because sometimes when

someone drops you out at the airport, picks you up at the airport, like it really, it hits home. It makes you feel really good. Biden's America, man. Nobody's giving rides to the airport. anyway. See, I will drop someone off at the airport, but picking someone up from the airport is just too daunting. The timing aspect, like, you can't be in the lane. You can't park. That's too much for me. I will call you an Uber, though. I will call you an Uber. I want to say that I'm not calling anyone out except for really myself. I was having dinner with my mom last night, and she mentioned picking her fiance up at the airport. And I thought to myself, when was the last time I did something like that. And what would I do if one of my loved ones said, can you pick me up at the airport? Because I think

honestly, honestly, my first instinct would be, are you fucking kidding me? Right, right, right. And I think I'm, I'm doing a little bit of self-analysis based on that. And I do think that these are things that maybe I should investigate devoting a little bit more time and energy to. Anyway, it has to be a certain level of relationship to even make the ass. And it's got to be a two-way street. You can't. just always be asking and not giving in that type of relation. Honestly, that that's the best take. I mean, I was like just mesmerized by where you were going with that take. So I loved it.

But listen, yes, as you said, anyway, we are going to get to some. It's late May. We can have some airport talk on the pot. There's nothing wrong with that. OTAs going on. Maybe a mini camp will sprout up. I don't know. I always get confused when one starts and the other ends.

But the format this week is very simple. We're playing a little game we like to call silly or serious. There are all these storylines floating on the internet. You might see some headlines. You might see some tweets, whatever. And you're saying, is this something I need to pay attention to? It's been going on for months now. And we're going to run through some of those.

We didn't tell each other what our narratives, themes, the headlines are. We're going to run through some of those and say, is this something you need to pay attention to? Is this silly? Is this serious? Is this somewhere in between? I mean, we cheat. We've each got two. And if we duplicate, we've each got a backup.

So there we go. Which one of you wants to go first? I mean, I can go first since we wasted so much time talking about the airport. Let's get on to something very serious. Wasted. To a tag of Iloa is skinnier now. And he's 10 to 15 pounds skinnier. And Cam Wolf of the NFL network reports that it's in an effort to become more quick to avoid pressure, to extend plays a little bit more.

And I do wonder, because. last year, I feel like we kind of joked about Tua doing the jiu-jitsu thing to learn how to fall, but it kind of worked. Like, not only did he stay healthy, there were several examples of him falling backwards in the same way that he fell backwards in 2022 and kind of rolling and using his momentum, whatever he learned in his off-season studies. But I want to know, like, do you guys think that it's possible for this guy to actually add that layer to his game, something that we haven't really seen from him since, I would say

Alabama since the hip injury at Alabama. And would that change things for Miami's offense? So I just did a quick Google search of this because I had missed the two weight loss. I may or may not have a weight loss among my headlines. We'll see. But yeah, it says here, this is via Fox Sports, that he dropped weight from 235 to 220. And it says that the dolphins asked him to lose that weight. Mike McDaniel calling it saying he's spelt.

about Tua, Tunga Vailoa. What do you think, what do you think, Nora? Is this going to allow him to be a little more creative? Do we make anything of this? Or is this nothing to see here, move on? So here's my question. I, in general, as a sort of, on a fundamental level, I think quarterback fitness stories in May,

I have a strong predisposition to say silly. Here's the part of this story that interests me. is the dolphins asking Tua to get skinnier. Yeah. Because the first time that I saw this headline, I reread it because I wondered if I was reading it wrong. Because I'm reading that they felt like if he dropped a little bit of weight, he would be,

because he would be lighter, he would have a little bit more mobility and a little bit more of that fluidity. I have always thought of kind of the nexus of the concern around Tua and injuries to have a little bit more to do with, actually the fact that he's small versus the fact that versus the speed with which he's evading pressure

or running around. Now the dolphins have a bigger window into that than I do. But when I first read this, my first reaction was hold on, you're asking Tua to have less body armor? Right. Yeah. Does this make sense? Is this a good idea? And I do actually, I mean,

far be it from me to ever articulate that an NFL team is not capable of making a big mistake. I do on some level believe that the dolphins have just like a lot more insight into how fast he is moving when he needs to break the pocket and whether or not something like this would be a good idea for him from a strength and conditioning standpoint. But just first level reaction, first impression was was anyone asking Tua to get skinnier before the dolphins woke up one morning and we're like, you know what you need to do? is drop 15 pounds.

I will say this. His personal trainer did say in March that that was the plan for the offseason. So, I mean, they could have went to them beforehand and said that. But there is some contention about, like, who asked who to do this. Like McDaniel has been asked. And he was like, I don't know. Like, it's up to Tuba to do that on his own. So I do think there is a point of contention there.

But from the Fox Sports report from Henry McKenna, a source did tell him that it was about, like, being more twitchy and elusive in the pocket. It's like the coach is talking like that. I'm assuming the coaches are also thinking. on that same wavelength. So whether it's independent or not, I feel like it is something the coaches want to do. But I'm like, like, you might think I think it's silly

just because I rag on two a lot. But I think it might matter a little. He hasn't been this light since his rookie year. He hasn't been 220 since his rookie year. And that was the only year he ever posted positive EPA on out of structure plays in the NFL. He's been negative and near the bottom of the league ever since that, in the three years since that.

But in his rookie year, when he was skinnier, And like you go back and watch some of those games. The game against the Cardinals in particular, he had a lot of plays out of structure where he created it. So I do wonder if it's him saying like, I remember being this weight. I remember what I could do and I can no longer do it. But that's like the thing with these quarterbacks, these quarterbacks where they have this limited skill set, physical skill set, I'll say. Like he's not the biggest guy. He doesn't have the strongest arm.

He doesn't have the most body armor on him. I feel like you're always kind of like playing with the sliders trying to find the right balance. And it's kind of hard to find it. Like he got heavier to stay healthy. Then he stays healthy and now he's getting skinnier again. It's kind of like a drug addict coming out of rehab and being like, oh, you're clean now. How about some crack? Like, why is he going back after doing the thing that worked?

I don't know. So for me, it's in between us. Bring her NFL show, Dolphins to Tua. How about some crack? I'm sorry. I can only come up with toxic comparisons. I can't come up with a good one, like a wholesome one. It's interesting, though, because I think I read this story as I read most stories about Tua through the lens of,

of how do we keep this man healthy and safe? And it sounds like the more you sort of explain and share that detail about his out-of-structure play is being better when he was closer to 220 when he was a rookie. It sounds as though that's actually not what this is about, right? Like this is about adding an element of creativity and out-of-structure creativity back into what he's able to do. So I guess the question is,

is doing that worth the increased risk on, you know, you run a lot of those types of plays, you end up taking more hits. You take more hits at a lower body mass, body weight. You're more susceptible to injuries. So it's maybe playing with fire a little bit there. But I guess through the perspective of this is about out of structure creation versus like he's going to take fewer hits because he's going to run away from pressure. Because I think we we sort of know that that's a that's a double-edged sword, right?

because then you end up being in situations where you sometimes take bigger hits. I guess you're leading me to understand this a little bit better. So I don't know if we're going to make a ruling here. I guess I don't think completely silly. Not silly. Yeah, that's what I was going for. I was trying to make the argument that it wasn't silly. I was setting up the premise as if it was, but I had some evidence that it wasn't.

And I will say that the source from the Henry McKenna piece did mention the delicate balance between wanting him to extend plays and wanting to keep him healthy. So I do think it's something the dolphins are thinking about and weighing and balancing. I do think it might be a sign that maybe they didn't take the jujitsu thing seriously last offseason. And then they saw how it helped during the season. They're like, oh, that helps. You could just lose the weight now that you put on. I will simply never forget when the jujitsu story was first coming out,

Mike McDaniel giving some quote where he was like, well, we're going to try it and see what happens. You guys should have seen the bad ideas we considered doing. And I'm just desperate. it someday. I just want to know the suggestions that were left on the cutting room floor in terms of what Tua was going to do to attack last offseason. An inflatable on the back of his helmet that like deploys when he when he falls backwards. That could help. Yeah. I picture. I mean with this like I picture when I'm picturing success for the dolphins,

it's in rhythm. Mike McDaniel came up with something and Tua is operating the offense. It's not now I didn't know that. That was a good nugget. from Ruiz. Like I honestly, my memory is terrible. I don't remember any, what year was that? 2020, you said? 2020. Yeah. 2020. I don't remember the great Cardinals, Dolphins game from week 13 in 2020. I wasn't grinding that film. What weekday was it on? It was probably on like a Wednesday afternoon. Yeah. Yeah, like when I picture to it, it's hard for me to even picture the creativity. Like when I almost picture that, I cringe a little bit because it feels like the longer he holds onto the football,

bad things are going to happen, just envisioning that offense here the last couple of years. But I don't know. Like, it's hard for me. Even when we say, are it a little bit lighter, is there increased injury risk? I don't know. You can make the argument. Well, it allows you to be more elusive and avoid the big hits. I don't know.

So I'm still going to go a little silly. I'm going to go with my initial reaction. And we'll see if Tua is just, you know, eluding defenders in week one and throwing bombs downfield into Tyree kill. You guys can remind me that I made fun of this. But I think the number one goal for him still should always. be stay as healthy as possible. And if this is a, goes towards that,

uh, moves towards that goal, then fine. But if it's to add the creativity element, I'm just kind of like, uh, I don't know that there's going to be enough upside there, uh,

for the juice to be worth the squeeze as our friend Ben Solak likes to say. It's, it's very rare where I'm not the two a hater on a podcast. I feel it feels good. It feels good to be different this time. There you go. I appreciate it a little bit. All right. What do you got? Can I, can I first share and maybe this says something about me, maybe this says something about, the NFL this time of year.

I had a strong inclination to just say that everything was silly. I mean, when I was going through stories here, I was like silly, silly, silly, silly, silly. And then I'm looking at myself and I'm challenging myself to find one that where I'm like, okay, all right. Could be a little something here. So I'll start with this one because I think both of mine,

I'm looking for us all to make a ruling. But this one to me, it's maybe a little bit, closer to the closer on the serious side of the scale. So there's been some buzz since the draft. There was some buzz around draft night that the Vikings who had all of that intrigues surrounding what they were going to do at quarterback actually contemplated making a trade up with the chargers and we're sniffing around the number five pick in order to draft a receiver.

And there's been some pro football. talk blurbs to to suggest as much. And then over the weekend, the St. Paul Pioneer Press reported that Minnesota did indeed try to trade up with the Chargers for the number five pick with which they would have taken Malik neighbors. And then this is quoting from this article, had that trade occurred, Justin Jefferson would have been traded and neighbors would have been the number one receiver.

And so the suggestion here is that what happened is that the charges decided to stay put don't know what the offer was um but the chargers decided to stay put took joe alt and uh neighbors becomes a giant and and the rest is history right the backdrop to this of course is that justin jefferson missed the o tas last week uh he is i'm not going to say holding out because that's obviously a voluntary activity but he's he's working on getting a new contract and and um presumably using whatever forms of leverage he has to make that happen. They've been negotiating for over a year. That is obviously going to be a big contract.

It figures to be bigger than the $32 million a year that A.J. Brown got. And I think the fact that Minnesota apparently has or had explored other options and explored an idea of drafting a potential new number one receiver, does make me think a little bit differently than how I've been thinking about the Jefferson situation, which is basically like the Vikings over their cold dead body will they let Justin Jefferson go anywhere. It's going to be a big number. When we all do the reaction podcast, we're going to be on here going like, holy, you know,

35 million a year for a wide receiver or whatever it ends up as. Like, it's, it's the highest non-quarterback contract. It sets all these records. And then it's going to be like, Justin Jefferson is one of the best, if not the best receiver in the NFL. When you draft and develop that player, you do not let him go. All of these big numbers start to look smaller and smaller as time passes. Like, big whoop we've seen this movie before. And I'm not going to say that I'm not still sort of ultimately inclined to that line of thinking here.

But I'm just, I'm reading this and I'm hearing had that trade occurred, Jefferson would have. have been traded. Not like it would have been easier to trade Justin Jefferson if some team offers the farm. Justin Jefferson would have been traded. And Malik Neighbors ends up as the Vikings number one receiver. It does make me, and it's just one, it's one report. But if we trust the reporting there, it makes me think a little bit differently about where the Vikings are, having been negotiating with Jefferson's side for over a year at this point, basically, and not having gotten anywhere. It makes me wonder if they are considering what life would be like without him and opportunities

and options they have in that case more so than I would have been thinking if they had. What do you think, Ruiz? I'm not going to lie. Like, you dropped a bomb on me. I had missed this story. I missed everything so far, which kind of shows you maybe where my head's at on a Tuesday after Memorial Day weekend, but it's nice. It's like you're surprising me.

This is actually fun. Right. It feels like I'm getting the news delivered. I'll give you a little bit. I'll give you a little more context that. This was like a nugget at the bottom of a sort of like news and notes column. Right. So it's if we do a little media analysis, it's interesting that like this wasn't a number one headline story.

Vikings explored trading Justin Jefferson during the draft. It was it was buried a little bit. And I'm always curious, you know, as a former beat reporter myself, like when you have something juicy like that, why you don't go full throttle with it? And I wonder, because the language was not equivocating, it was pretty clear. But I guess I'm weighing sort of the placement of the story with the language of the story. But, you know, it's a, it's a local paper. I trust beat reporting. And yeah, it was a bomb for me as well when I, when I read it.

I would say, like, even, like, maybe the Vikings are just doing their due diligence and just having those conversations. But even beyond that, I feel like the valuation of Jefferson, like the terms of the trade, kind of make me also change my thinking on how this deal will get done eventually. I do think it, the most likely outcome is they signed him to a long-term deal. But like the fact that it was a trade basically to replace him, it's not, it's not like apples to apples to Stefan Diggs trade. but it kind of is. And like I just assumed Minnesota saw Jefferson as a transcendent wide receiver talent, like even beyond what Diggs was because that's how I view him. Like he's the top receiver in the league.

He changes everything for defenses. He changes everything for an offense. Yeah. So that kind of surprises me. It makes me think that maybe this isn't like a sure thing. And maybe if they do get a Godfather offer, they would take it. The other thing that it makes me think is, God damn it, Greg Roman. Is it Greg Roman's fault that I don't get to see Justin Herbert throw passes to Jeff?

Oh, I didn't even realize that, right? It would have been, okay, you have the chart. I didn't even realize the Chargers aspect to that. Yeah. Would this be, have been the same trade where they move up for neighbors and then a separate trade for Jefferson? There's no, there's nothing in it that indicated that the Chargers would have been on the receiving end for Justin Jefferson. Oh, okay.

Because the trade, I mean, it doesn't say that it's not, right? And there's a certain internal logic to that, but just that, you know, the Vikings had a lot of draft capital, right? and presumably since they were in on McCarthy and wanted to make that happen, it wouldn't have, they would have had to figure something out with other compensation or other picks if they wanted to hang on to that. I mean, that's obviously another,

we don't know this, we're sort of extrapolating. I am assuming that whatever they were offering was not, did not include the, I think it was the number 14 pick was what they ended up getting, McCarthy with obviously the eventuality where they wanted to do this so badly that they were going to give up their their shot at the quarterback would take things to a whole new level. I'm assuming that's not the case, which could include Jefferson going back as part of it, but also could be any number of things. Didn't say that that's what it was. Even so I think there's still a concern with like the Chargers.

You still want to blame Greg Roman. Yeah. Yeah, let me still, I can find a way to blame him here. Let me work, let me work. They got offered a trade, which I'm assuming was a great trade to move down from Joe Alt. And Greg Roman was like, no, I need my tackle. I need my road grading tackle in the run game. And that's more important.

How do you know that it wasn't a harbaugh who said I need, because I do. Because I'm blaming Greg Roman here. Very clearly said, I need my, I need my right tackle. No, it was great. Everything that, everything bad that happens with the Chargers is Greg Roman's fault. Everything good that happens is Harbaugh. Herbert, okay? I mean, it was already kind of like, that's a good preview of the 20,

24 chargers. Yes. It was kind of like an already such a football hardo move for them to be like, we are taking this tackle at number five. We are not taking a receiver here. Oh, and by the way, like he's not even going to play the blind side. We just want like beef. And then for it to be additionally that they had like some sort of crazy opportunity and

they were like, nope, you know what this organization needs Joe all. I like Joel. They couldn't go back at that point. Like Harbaal probably had his shirt off at that point. Gray Rowan was getting to sight and drawn up run plays that go for three yards. Like you can't go back on that after the, they're like, yeah, we're already locked in. Joe Ald. The charges piece of that.

Yeah, it is interesting. Justin Jefferson, Justin Herbert would have been an interesting tandem. When I did my trade value column last summer, I had Jefferson ninth overall. I think the only non-quarterback I had ahead of him. was Micah Parsons, and that was really like a kind of a coin flip to me. Like, I'm sure there's another version I wrote of that where I had Jefferson ahead of Parsons. So I was just trying to think of the compensation and how would this make sense for the Vikings? I mean, I think you're talking about certainly like the number of non-quarterbacks who I

think would get multiple first round picks is very low. And I think Jefferson is certainly in that category. I mean, the guy's going to turn 25 years old in June. Like there. And what is weird about this? And the reason I think it's a good one. to bring up Norris. Just like, what is the hold up here? You know, usually you have a guy like this, top of the market, young, productive. I mean, he had more receiving yards

in his first three seasons than any wide receiver in NFL history. And there's nothing fake about that. I mean, we can all think of these games that Bill's game sticks out in my mind. We're like how many wide, we can love a bunch of wide receivers. How many of them can just take the game over? It's like old school.

I feel like, you know, 20 years ago was more like, man, they just can't guard this guy. He's got like 11 catches. And you know it's going to him and he's catching it every day. time. Like that is Justin Jefferson. I can't imagine when you have that player in his prime in your grasp. Like shouldn't, in my opinion, this should just be, all right, we're going to make you the highest paid non-quarterback in the NFL. I think that's Nick Bosa right now at 34. So you go $35 million

per year. I don't know. Maybe Jefferson's like maybe he wants more than that. Maybe there's more to it than that. But if that's not being offered, then I'm not even having a conversation yet if I'm Justin Jefferson in his camp. So it is bizarre. Just a player of this stature. Again, there's There's nothing unless, I don't know, he missed some games last year. His first three years, he was very durable, very, even last year, right? He played 10 games. He had 1,074 yards in 10 games. I mean, like, it's all, like, you can't control all the injuries.

He was an absolute monster last year. So that's why it is that they would trade up for a wide receiver yet, because I'm like, they'd have Addison. They're going to go Addison and neighbors and trade Jefferson and maybe do something with those multiple first round picks that, gets you a quarterback to me, it feels like overthinking it. But it's an interesting nugget that I completely miss. I don't see how you replace that type of player like Jefferson in the aggregate. Like I don't think you can bring in two receivers who like maybe if you put them together

production-wise equal his production, but like just the effect he has being out on the field just changes so much. Their offense was viable with like Josh Dobbs out there and stuff because of a player like that. In that Bill's game, in that Bill's game, Kirk Cousins didn't play well at all and they still came back from like 20 down because of the receiver. It's insane. Especially when you're going into a new era with a new quarterback, a young quarterback who needs some support, needs some dynamism on the field.

I just, I, it's really simple, like the simplest explanation is sometimes the right one. If you have a Justin Jefferson, like just don't let him go, man. But it is,

I mean, as you guys are pointing out, this has been a topic, even since last off season is like, okay, this is coming down the pipeline. I believe last summer was when the talk sort of started for the first time. This was a huge story at the Combine, right?

It was a huge story. Um, or it was a big story around the draft and around the off season when it was, you know, what's happening with Kirk Cousins. What's going to happen? Um, now that once the Vikings were sort of in on quarterback in the draft, it's just like they have been, they've been talking. Yeah. I mean, Questi Duff.

events I know has said that has described them as as very close. But that at this point was like, maybe that was at the combine. It's, it's, you know, the clock, the clock has been ticking. And as we talk about all the time, it doesn't get cheaper. And at a certain point, I would say, the thinking does not shift to, oh, well, they're going to, you know, they're going to move on from Jefferson. I just, I still think that's just so unlikely. I just, I just think you've got to be kind of out of your mind to do that if if you're the Vikings. There's just some potential for like a kind of Lamar-ish situation. Yeah, for sure. Where maybe it's a tag. Maybe it's like, you, you know, you dare some team to give you two first round picks and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, which is just like, you don't, as the Ravens have

shown us, like there are situations in which that's fine. It just seems unnecessarily messy to me. I think one thing helping Jefferson kind of in these negotiations is like he doesn't, Minnesota doesn't really offer him much. Like he doesn't have a quarterback he's leaving. This isn't Tyreeke Hill leaving Mahomes. This isn't Devante Adams leaving Aaron Rogers. It's JJ McCarthy. He's never played with him before.

Kirk's gone. So if I'm him, I'm feeling like all the confidence I need to carry this holdout into however deep I need to carry it. It's not a holdout yet, but if it comes to that. Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, even if they want to use the tag, you're not happy about it. guess what the second year? Now what are you going to do?

Like, are you going to use the tag again? Like he'll be 27 years old. After what, two tags. And like you said, I mean, the Vikings need him more than he needs them. I mean, you plug Justin Jefferson into pretty much any offense in the NFL. And they're going to be fireworks. I mean, just such a fun guy to watch.

I'm just like a Charlie Walters is the reporter columnist for the Pioneer Press, who included this kind of at the bottom like you mentioned, Nora, of a notes column there. Until something gets done, you're feeling a little angsty if you're a Vikings fan. But I'm with you both. I think the most likely scenario is at some point in the months ahead, Vikings signed Justin Jefferson to whatever, $35 million per year, most guaranteed money of a non-quarterback in NFL history, all the, and he'd be like, yeah, okay, that's probably what you should do for a 25-year-old who is elite at a premium position.

That's absolutely what you should do. All right. Wait, what do we decide? So is this silly or serious? I think it's silly of the Vikings to be having these talks, but I've been convinced I've changed my mind. It's serious. It's serious-ish. Yeah.

Yeah, that's a good way to put it. I'm going silly again. I'm going to be the hater on the pod today. No, I, everything is, everything is silly. It's all so silly. Like, everyone is just a silly goose, a silly goose all around. But it's, it's a little, there's a little sprinkle of seriousness. We're grading on a curve here.

Okay. That's true. You're right. All right. I'll keep that in mind with the future ones. All right. All right, let's take a break. We'll come right back. All right, we are back on the ringer NFL show. My first one, I almost thought of, you know, jumping the line and just going second, because I've got, like I said, I've got another quarterback dropping weight story.

And I said, do we want to pair of those together? But I said, we can mix it up a little bit. It's no big deal. So I've got Ravens Lamar Jackson drops. Why everyone's dropping weight? Why is everyone dropping weight? Go eat a pizza. Come on. Let me a little. Patrick Mahomes. Yeah. Ravens Lamar Jackson dropped weight in effort to be more agile. This is from ESPN and the athletic. The athletics Jeff Rebeck says Lamar Jackson looked noticeably thinner at a practice last week that was open to the media. And Lamar has addressed this.

He talked to complex sports last month. He said he's down to 205 pounds. He was 215 last year, 230 in 2022. He says he feels more agile. He, quote, I'll say it was important enough to be able to move around a little bit extra. That's all, just so I can be more agile and be able to move more. So I was looking at this. I was trying to, you know, look, well, how did Lamar Jackson run the football last year?

A couple interesting things here. He still ran for over 800 yards last year, but 448 of those were on scrambles. in terms of like the designed runs or the option runs that were actual design part of the offense, he had 23.9 yards per game, which was a career low. He had 4.2 attempts per game on designed runs, which was also a career low. And so I don't know where they under Todd Monkin saying we don't need to use him as much in this capacity because we have an actual passing game and we can just do that rather than run Lamar as much as he's been run throughout the course of his career. but I don't know, that number 205, like now you're talking about one of the more, like,

slighter quarterbacks in the NFL at that number. Most quarterbacks are going to be above that number. So Nora, let's start with you. What do you think? Lamar Jackson shedding some weight and some background on this. He put on some weight after I think it was the 2020 season or in 2022, he was 230 pounds. and last year who was 215 pounds. So a lot of kind of fluctuation there.

And this coming off an MVP season, which is also part of the bizarreness of this story. What do you think, Norris, is this silly, serious, make anything of it? What did you think when you heard this? Well, it might be serious in the sense, like serious, not as a problem, right? Like, I'm very much inclined to sort of trust how Lamar feels about his body.

And I think if they do want to kind of add back some of the, some other wrinkles to the offense after they kind of reconfigured everything under Monkin last year. I'm inclined to say, like, Lamar knows what he needs and some of the stats that you just had about what he's been able to do and the distribution of the run game in terms of designed runs versus scrambles, says that as long as he's comfortable at that and as long as it's not a health risk, which I think generally speaking, you know, we talk about injuries with Lamar

so much, but I think historically, it has been kind of more of the first. freak accidents than he's not actually, he's not durable. He doesn't have the body armor. He's not able to, he is such an elusive runner that I think he is pretty good at protecting himself that way. So in the sense that it, I believe that that could add back an extra element to his game as a runner. I guess I would say serious in the sense that it could genuinely be good for them.

But I got to know what Stephen thinks about this as the, resident Lamar, hype man. I'm more concerned with Lamar's immune system. He seems to get sick like every season. I feel like he's missed games because of sickness as much as like injuries. All right. So you're saying get some of those supplements in his system.

Forget about the weight, focus on the immune system. Okay. Isn't it good if he's getting, if he's coming down with something in the off season, isn't it good that like hopefully, you get those antibodies, you're,

who knows, like hay fever. There's always stuff going around. It could strengthen his immune system. No, no, no, that's a good call. I will say this. Last year was the first. I've got allergies is a good call.

No, that if he gets sick now, his immune system will be stronger in the winter. It'll be better. He'll get through the season. I feel like that's more important than weight. We talked about this with the two-a-thing. I don't think there's any proof that, like, heavier quarterbacks withstand hits better than heavier quarterbacks or lighter

quarterbacks. I don't think there's any proof out there. I think actually when it's been looked up, opposite has been true. Like, skinnier quarterbacks tend to stay healthy. I will say this. He didn't reach over 20 miles per hour per next gen stats last year at any point.

It was the only time that's happened in his career besides 2021, where he had an ankle injury for a lot of the year. So I do think maybe he was. Sorry, I don't mean to cut you out. Isn't there some research and indication that, like, less so lighter versus heavier, but that, like,

stockier quarterbacks tend to absorb hip. hits better and aren't hurt as much. Yeah, I think it's body composition. Body composition rather than just like, yeah, weight. Yeah. So I don't know. Maybe he just got leaner. Like maybe he has more muscle and he's just leaner.

I don't know. It's kind of hard. I don't think it's going to change his game fundamentally. I am interested to see how it changed, how the offense changes, not as a result of him losing weight, but there are like these little Easter eggs, like Lamar losing weight. Then drafting like a pocket quarterback at the end of the draft, I think is significant because they've always put a fast backup. had him a mobile threat behind it, but kind of maybe hints at them changing the offense a little bit

and not relying on the run game stuff, like the design run game stuff so much. So I think there might be something there, but I really don't think this is going to change his game fundamentally. So I think it's more silly than not. Yeah, I'm on the same page that he, you know, kind of trust it. And this wasn't a Ravens asked him to do this type situation, kind of like to the reports where, I mean, they, that John Harbaugh was asked about it and they were basically saying what you guys are saying that Lamar knows his body. And it's a weird thing. but I do feel like when you have such a supreme athlete, like Lamar Jackson,

you want him to do what he needs to do to feel that athletic, if that makes sense, you know? Like, I don't know if you guys have interviewed athletes before and like they want to feel a certain way. And I think that certainly is the case with Lamar Jackson. But yeah, they already started moving away a little bit, not totally, but moving away a little bit from using him on the designed runs and letting him use his legs as a scrambler last year.

That next-gen stats thing, Ruiz, was interesting because I read that, yeah, in an ESPN article from Jameson Hensley that in Lamar Jackson, his first three seasons, he had nine runs where he hit a max speed of 20 miles per hour or more. And in the past three seasons, he's had one and he did not have any last season. Like that surprised me. I didn't watch Lamar at any point last year as he was winning the MVP and running for 800 yards and going he doesn't look like the same athlete he was before. But it's a minor thing, but it is an interesting little piece of data that now I'm going

going to look at it this year. All right. Is he reaching? Does he still have that top gear that he had when he was younger? And he has had some injuries and you have wear and tear. It's probably the normal chain of events for somebody who has run the football as well as he has in his career. But yeah, I don't know. Even if he's at what 80% athleticism, he's still the most athletic quarterback in the NFL. Since we're on the subject of miles per hour, I forgot to read the stat off during the Tua section. Tua hasn't reached over 18 miles per hour on a run since his rookie year. So he's kind of in the same boat where he's kind of trying to get back to speed that he used to have. there you go. Yeah, I think we're more likely to be talking about the Ravens sort of turnover on offense, the offensive line. Do they have a great more so than Lamar Jackson's weight this season? I think he's going to be fine there. So yeah, I'm going to go silly on. I can't go silly on R. I mean, I have some seriousness coming up, but I'm going three for three silly. You guys sound like you're silly on this one. The most silly were worth so far. Yeah, okay. I'm not saying it's, I have a little bit of serious and are just in terms of like, I don't think, I don't think that's like a fluffy, like even to your point, Sheila, about if Lamar feels good this way,

then it's a worthwhile thing to do. So I think in that sense, like, you know, there's a piece of like even, even the Viking story is like serious in a different way where I'm like, oh, does this getting a little, it's probably fine, but is this getting a little weird? I read that and I go like, Yeah, this is fine.

This might help. This might help in a way where it's just like good for him. Cool. One of my favorite stories as a kid was when, like, you know, sports talk radio callers were just calling and ripped on him and McNabb for getting too jacked. He can't. He's put on weight.

He's getting too jacked. He can't throw the ball. Look at those. Look at those. They're throwing them right. So I do enjoy a quarterback body composition story as much. Who's our most yoked quarterback? That's a good question.

Will Levis for sure. Right. Yeah. It was a concern, actually, before the draft. I wish our most yoked quarterback was like a little bit more relevant, frankly. Yeah, and Levitt shows it, right? He's got the short, like the sleeves are very short up there. Yeah.

Exposing the arms to make you know that he is the most yoked quarterback. Yeah, that's right. He's got a little smearthium going. There were a couple of Philly radio callers in the anonymous scouts sections of the, of those pre-draft stories, because they were going to play. They were like, oh, it's like he cares about his body more than throwing a football. I don't know if that. That's what that means.

Yeah, I don't know either. All right, that was my first one. All right, Ruiz, you're back up. What do you have for number two? I'm going to go. I actually had three plans. I'm going to go with my third one. I'm going to skip the Gino one.

I'm going to skip, save any Gino talk for future pods. But I'm going to go with the kickoff rule. The kickoff rule changing. Now that we have, like, we have mini camps back, special teams coordinators are talking about it, talking about it, their thoughts on it. So I do think we've heard different thinking about it in the last week. I want to know how much you guys think this is actually going to be a thing and changes

things. Because I've looked at the research that the NFL has put out on the XFL, and I don't think it's going to be that big of a deal. I really don't, like in terms of field position and stuff, you're going to see more returns. It's going to quadruple the amount of returns, I think. The NFL is hoping for 50 to 60 percent return rate. And the XFL was 80 to 90 percent. I don't think that's going to happen. But the one change, the one big change was that field position was around 29 in the XFL where it's like around 25 in the NFL. So that's going to change a little bit. I think it's going to be easier to score.

But in terms of like excitement of the play, I don't think it's going to change the game all that much. So I am excited because it's something different. And, you know, I'll just do a public apology, not to Solac. I think we may have hurt his feelings. What rule changed did he bring up the one time? And we all yelled at him about the hip drop tackle. Yeah.

I mean, that lingered. I don't know if it lingered for you guys or if that was a me. thing, but I was hearing about that for weeks afterwards. So, so like, congrats. I know. And you actually, this is a good time to talk about this. He brought that up on maybe your last extra point taken or one of the last ones. And he blamed you, Sheal.

And it was really, I was like, oh, that was me. Like, I did that. I came at you, Ben Solac. And you are blaming your co-host for the sins of Nora Fransiotti. I don't take it back. Neither do I. Any anti-

I hip drop hype. I don't, I don't care about this rule change. I don't think it's going to change anything. I mean, it was like months before owners meetings. All right. We should, I shouldn't have brought it up. This is good. If he's listening to this with the baby on the shoulder. Thank you for reminding me what a giant weirdo Ben was on that pot. There you go. We miss you, I love. Love you so. I'm sorry. You're not here to defend your zone. All right. So, uh, so my point was is I ignored this kickoff rule for a while and then like maybe like three weeks ago. I'm like, all right, I actually need to learn what is going on here. And I'm kind of with you.

I'm excited that it's a new thing and there is like real strategy to it. It seems like you're going to be able to tell who the well-coached teams are and who the poorly coach teams are, just and stuff like getting lined up. Like it's very different than it used to be where you could see teams, the poorly coached teams just getting penalties left and right. I wonder, though, so if you really want to make this something that you're good at, you have to commit practice time to it. And I wonder how many teams are going to view the upside there versus what you just said, Ruiz,

because that's the number that came to mind. If you kick a touchback, the other team gets the ball at the 30 yard line. Right. And the average kickoff return in the XFL, it's only one piece of data, was the 29 yard line. So if you're kicking off, you have to decide, all right, do we really feel like we can pin them back? We've practiced this. We have an edge here. Let's go ahead and kick it in that landing's.

zone where we're going to get a return or do you just say like what if you have a kicker who can kick it through the end zone every time you could just say we're not even really going to practice this much the coverage aspect of it and let's just give them the ball at the 30 yard line because we don't want to screw this up and allow them to have a monster return here so that's what I'm interested in like which teams uh it's really a coaching decision it's not just in game at that moment what are we going to do it's kind of like a training camp OTA's mini camp story we're like how much are you willing to commit practice time to getting good at this and being a good team. So that was one thing. That was one of the main things I thought about when I really read up on this and understood the

rule. So the Raven Special Teams Coordinator made the point, he made this point, I think it was last week when he was asked about it, that it actually makes it easier for them in practice. Obviously, they have to relearn this like new way of playing, but it makes it easier because of reps because the players aren't running as much. Like they're not running 40 yards. And he was like, that's what made it so hard to practice kickoffs was all the commitment. First of all, you need a full field, you need to be running 40 yards every play. Now you can just line up. And he said they run like 20 yards.

And apparently like the strategy, in the XFL at least, was to kick it as far as you can but not get it in the end zone. Like you get it in that landing zone. And so you want to get it between like the one and five yard line. And if you can do that, like the average starting field position is like the 21 yard line, which is a big deal for defenses. So I think the only thing that really changes and maybe I'm wrong is the type of kicker you put on, you give that duty to.

Because before it was just like, who can kick it the furthest? We just want to touch back. Now it's like we need some precision. We need some accuracy. We need some touch. So I do think that's going to change. I think body types on special teams units are going to change with like change roster composition.

But other than that, like I think how we feel it on Sundays, I really don't think it's going to be that different other than like how it looks. I think for the most part, that's true. But I do think to your point, there will be some teams that take it seriously. like I didn't the Steelers that rule got passed and the Steelers signed Corderole Patterson in like 30 minutes. And that to me seemed like a pretty clear one to one like, oh, we think maybe there's an opportunity here. And this guy, I mean, Corderole Patterson obviously are really accomplished, accomplished return specialist, among other things. He's 33 years old.

So I don't know quite how much flash he's got left in the tank. But clearly the Steelers felt like that was worth a go. So I do think you'll see some teams take it seriously. And it does seem like, it does seem like there are at least significantly more opportunities for like big flashy return plays. So I think like week to week are you, are you all of a sudden, um,

you know, seeing one of those plays start and going like, oh, I'm ready for something super exciting. Probably not. But do we get a couple more return? turned for touchdowns, a couple more sort of highlight reels out of those moments. I think we will. I think early in the season, it's going to be really interesting because no team knows what

other teams are going to do. Like, if it's week six and one team is just having these unbelievable returns, then it's like, all right, this makes our, uh, our decision simple. Let's just kick it into the end zone and not have to worry about it. But like I do think there's going to be some like I think there's going to be a storyline in certainly the first three, four weeks of the season as teams get adjusted to it. I mean, it's really, it's not like, a total kickoff. It's not a run play. It's almost like, you know, there's no point of attack block. Like there's going to be five yards between the blockers for the return and the defensive players. Like you said, Rhys, who do you put out on the field for that? Like, are you putting a starting

offensive linemen out there for that? Are you putting a starting tight end on the field for that? If you're like, are you putting your running back back, like the Saquan Barkley go back there and return one of these. If there's less injury risk and you just want the most dynamic player on your team, that the football, there's so many questions that, uh, I think it's going to be fun. Yeah, I just do wonder how many returns we actually get and if it achieves. Because I think the initial one was that a touchback would give them the ball at the 35 yard line. And it might not sound like much, but I think that's a big deal.

Like if it's the 35, then I think teams would say, no, we're kicking it in the landing zone and let's tackle them. If it's the 30 versus the average kickoff return in the XFL was the 29.1, then it's almost like, I don't know what's really the point of this. So, yeah, the touchback. is 30 for this year, but Rich McKay did say they're going to move that number maybe, like based on results. It could be 35 next year. It could change based on like they just. Yeah, they needed that to get the results. I think, right? The 30 or something. So it'll be, I'm generally not interested in much rule stuff at all. But once I dug into this a little bit,

I'm like, all right, I've at least got a little bit of interest in this. This is all I say. I think the gimmick wears off in preseason. I think we're all like, oh, this is a big deal. And then by the week one, where like every team's running the same kickoff and running the same styles. Well, do you think teams will show in preseason? Like, do you, will they want the reps or will they just be like, we're not showing anything? That's a good question. Yeah. I think you need the reps though, right?

You need the live reps in that. There's a lot of questions. There hasn't been anything like this in the NFL for a long time where it's a totally different play than anything we've seen before. So I think that at least adds a little intrigue to it. I did. I'll just say, I didn't need more excitement from my NFL games. Like, I'm like, kick off.

Okay, I'll check my phone. I'll go to the bathroom. I'll go to the kitchen. Like I was okay with like, God forbid, you know, like a two-minute break in the course of an NFL game. But that's okay. They want the excitement. If you like the excitement, you're getting more of it. All right, take one more break.

We'll come back. Nora will have her second one. And I will finish off with my last one. All right, we're back on the ringer and Fletcher. I can't see. I always forget the gimmick. Like last time we plotted, I forgot the rule. This time I forget the gimmick.

So I'm saying serious for kickoff rule. I'm interested in it. I think it's going to be a strong. I think it's the most serious one we've had, the one that like translates from offseason to actual games that we've talked about. When Skinny Tua wins MVP, you're going to look back on this pod with regret. I'll just say that.

There you go. Skinny Tua is almost like as powerful as right-handed Tua. Imagine if he was skinny and right-handed, it'd be over. There you go. Skinny, right? Maybe that'll be next off season. Jiu-Jitsu, lose weight, throw with your right hand. Who knows?

All right, Nora, what do you got? All right. I've got a story from New England. And this is mostly from the portion of the first Patriots OTAs, the portion that reporters were able to see. So just putting that out there in case when they have their next one, all of a sudden we start hearing that things have changed and this becomes moot. But a story out of the first Patriots OTAs was that Drake May. was taking third team reps. Was the quarterback taking third team reps for the Patriots offense? That means that he was running behind Jacoby Berset and behind Bailey Zappy.

Now should definitely caveat that Gerard Mayo was asked if it was correct to say that those reps were going to be divided similarly throughout the remaining OTAs, particularly sessions that reporters weren't going to be able to see. and he said, no, don't assume that what's happening today is what's happening the next time and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I'm inclined to say this is the one where I think it's mostly silliness or perhaps entirely silliness because I think it is just so clear that Drake May is obviously thoroughly in the Patriots plans. I will say it's interesting to me that Bailey Zappy is getting the second team reps just because Bailey Zappy is a player who I don't look at as being in New England's long term plans. So I have a little bit of a question here of just like, what is it about Drake May or what is it about what the Patriots want right now that leads them to think that, you know, those reps are more valuable for Bailey Zappy or it's more valuable for the team as a whole for Bailey Zappi to be running with the two's.

over Drake May. However, I really think that the idea that this, because this has been a little bit of subject of some, uh, consternation, beflufflement making up words in New England, I think the idea that this says that Drake May is somehow like behind or struggling is like really silly to me.

He was always going to be a player who was going to need some sort of like, fundamental work, to basics. Let's build this quarterback from the ground up. It's probably not going to start right away. He, you know, it's much more important that he is ready to win games in 2025, 2026, 2027 than like anything that could possibly happen this season for the Patriots. And the fact that they were drilling a lot of footwork very heavily just says to me that they're they're kind of, you know, he's a lump of clay and they want to build. it from the ground up, which I think is a smart strategy. So I am going silly, silly, silly all the way

on this being a thing. Stephen, you are quarterback guru. If you saw Drake May hopping out there running behind Bailey Zappy at Patriots OTAs, would you think twice about it? No. Like if it's August and this is still happening, then I don't think it's silly anymore. I think it's kind of sad. But right now, I think... Silly serious or sad? The priority is, yeah, right. The priority is like... getting this young offense together into gel. And I think if you have a quarterback who needs his handheld through calling plays, getting through a huddle, getting people lined up, like, why would you waste reps on that?

Instead of reping him on footwork and stuff that could actually help him improve down the line. I don't think, I don't, I think this is silly. I don't think the idea that Drake May isn't ready to start, though, is silly. And I think, like, if you, if that's what you're reading from these tea leaves, then I think that's fine. I don't think you're being silly. And it's not surprising. I think Jacoby percent is like a starter in this league.

I'm kind of surprised he hasn't been able to start over the last couple of years. So if he does, if Drake May does start the season on the bench, I don't think it's a red flag at all. He has to overcome a really good quarterback, relatively speaking, to get that that week one starter's job. That's what I was kind of wondering because I remember like in January or February, that was a legit conversation that if the Patriot draft Drake May, do you sit him as a rookie? When do you play him? what can he handle? That's a little bit about Drake May. That's a little bit about the sort of supporting cast and all the change in New England

this offseason. So Nora, what do you think? Like, what's the percentage chance you think in your mind right now that Drake May starts in week one? Or do you have a week where you're like, that's the over under for when he gets out there? Are you just expecting him to be out there when the season starts? Let me pull up the Patriot schedule here.

I think the odds that he is out there when the season starts. I don't know. I guess I would say 10% or something like that. I mean, I don't think that I don't think there is any hard and fast rule there or that, you know, Elliot Wolf is thinking about or that Gerard Mayo is thinking about that says Drake May will not start in week one. But I do think that they don't, I don't think that that is like meaningful to them in any way other than if Drake May starts in week one. I'm sure they'd be thrilled about it because it would mean. that he had beaten out Jacoby Brissette, which I think, as Stephen said, is going to be no small feat and would mean that Drake May is probably like maybe leaps and bounds is a little strong, but I think that would mean that Drake May is significantly ahead of where the Patriots expect him to be in week one, which fits perfectly with like who they thought he was when they drafted him with the third overall pick, right? Like when they made that selection, I think they felt that they were drafting a quarterback

whose best interest was not necessarily going to be served by starting right away, particularly within a roster context that's, you know, relatively weak. And I think that has to do with, you know, why Jacoby is the guy who's there. I think beating out Jacoby Rusette would be pretty tough, particularly. for a player like Drake May, who I think was a great pick, I think is a really talented player, but who needs a lot of work. I mean, they're running these drills, which, you know, are relatively common, but it looked like there were some really good videos. I think Chad Graff from the Athletic posted a bunch of them. So if people want to go check it out, they can do that where they devoted

what looked like a lot of time during those OTAs or during the first one to like pretty basic footwork drills where the quarterbacks would all, they would take different dropbacks and then there were different like bags set up. So they would have to go back in a straight line. If they, you know, boot it out in one direction. Like they have to do it in a certain way where they end up in the right spacing around the bag and they don't run into the bag. And there were a couple times when Drake May ran into the bag. You know, he kicks it over and then he has to do it again. And so it's clearly like they're working on that fundamental stuff, which I think is is the right way to go about it. Again, I'm sure the Patriots would be thrilled if Drake May started in week one for them

because I think it would mean that he was like way ahead of the schedule that they think is reasonable. And ultimately, the difference between that, like being ready for one of the first few weeks of the season versus, you know, hopping in. even in like December, right, is just not ultimately that meaningful because I just don't think that this Patriot season is about what happens in 2024. It's about next year and the year after and beyond that. I'm looking at the schedule. I'm trying to figure out where I think would be the most reasonable spot. You look at the schedule and then I want to come back and say,

pick, pick the game that you think he's going to start Ruiz. Do you agree that? you see him starting the season on the bench? Yeah, for sure. And I don't think it's really a statement about him. I just think Prissette is that good of a quarterback. Like I'm not saying Jacoby Preset's a top 15, top 10 type of quarterback, but I do think he's a top 20, 25 level quarterback.

And I think that's hard to unseat as a rookie. But like, if you're a Patriots fan, these are the things that you are not concerned about Drake May having to work on or put an extra work on, like footwork, like getting in and out of the huddle. Like, that's a question of does he know. how to play. That's not a question of can he play. If he had probably, like, if he was getting outplayed by Bailey's appy and outplayed by Jacoby Percent in training camp and in preseason, I'd be concerned. But like, this is the stuff you expect him to have to work on. And he's

going to be better for it. And like when we look back at all the quarterbacks who have worked that did sit on the bench, usually the thing that changed most with them is their footwork. Like Aaron Rogers became a totally different passer when he was on the bench, when he was sitting on the bench. Like in terms of mechanics, fluidity and all that. He was a rigid passer before. Patrick Mahomes, like, if you go back to his Texas tech tape, he throws a pass, you can't even tell what direction he's throwing the passing based on his feet because they're all over the place. And he's become a much better pass. And I think sitting on the bench helped. So it's not just like, I'm not just being like, oh, we've seen other guys sit on the bench and

work out. It's this style of quarterback that has sat on the bench and then eventually worked out. Yeah, you don't want them to develop. I'm always in favor of. You can't, you know, simulate the actual game reps. And so if you're not going to shatter a guy's confidence and that he's able to work on things while playing, I'm generally in favor of that. But at the same time, we've seen other times where that just messes somebody up and they do develop bad habits. So I think that's probably what they're weighing. All right, Nora, what do we got? You're looking at the schedule. Do we have a game

where we're going to say, that's going to be a Drake May game? Well, so here's the thing is that I think the most reasonable one is all the way in week 15 because the Patriots have a late buy. Their buy is in week 14. So that would be Patriots at Cardinals. Week 15, you have the, you have the buy week to to get him ready and then finish out with Cardinals, Bills, Chargers, Bills are the last four opponents. Bill's obviously a tough divisional opponent. Chargers could surprise some people this year. But that would be the situation in which he does play this year, but they wait basically as long as possible. I mean, I think the only situation in which Drake May plays this year, but starts later

than after that would be, you know, nothing to play for. Let's just get him in and get him some reps if he's still working on it. I also do think that that, you know, despite the fact that I think there are some factors in what his role is like on the Patriots team that probably doesn't have a lot to play for this year. Also, team. whose, you know, lead front office executive comes from that Packers organization where quarterbacks have start, have sat for significant periods of time. Despite all that, I do want to acknowledge that the history of quarterbacks who get drafted in a position like where Drake May has been drafted says that they're going to play.

But I'm just inclined to say like month of December, they have the Patriots have a reasonably tough schedule. I mean, if he's looking, if he's looking good early, I think you want to avoid, there's a stretch. What is this? Week one, two, weeks three and four, they've got at the Jets. Potentially, that's before things fall off the rails in New York. And then at 49ers. And, you know, I don't want my young quarterback super early on dealing with that defense. Then you come home. You've got the Dolphins at home. That's October 6th. You know, if he's way ahead of schedule, maybe somewhere in there. Week 9, maybe. I was thinking week 9 after like you said, this schedule is hard.

It's a hard schedule. One of the hardest schedules in the NFL. Jets defense, Niners defense, like that Miami defense could be a lot better, a lot of talent on it. Mike McDonald type defense now coming down there. Demico's Ryan's defense the week after that. The Jags are fine. And then the Jets again. And then after that are the Titans. I feel like that's a good first start for him. All right. I have one more scenario. Let me see if the mic picks up this knock.

Hey, Gerard, yeah. It's Robert and Jonathan. How you doing? Yeah. So we're one in four. The fan base is kind of annoyed. I know this schedule's been tough, but we didn't think the defense was good.

I know we lost the best defensive coach in NFL history, but, you know, people were telling me this defense was going to be good going into the season. And we did a little excitement where, you know, these Drake May jerseys, Like maybe we, are you sure the kid's not ready to be out there? I'm just saying, we know the owners are involved in a lot in New England now. There's going to be some point, like they can say they're going to be patient. At some point they're going to want to see this gem that they drafted here, be on the field

and get the fan, add a little juice to the fan base, add a little excitement to the operation. And so that's something else to keep in mind. When do the crafts want Drake May to be out there? it might not necessarily just be a Gerard Bayo decision. I just wonder which direction that cuts, though, because like, okay, week seven, they have the Jaguars. They're in London. They're at Wembley.

They're playing the Jaguars. I don't know how to look at that, right? Because I can see it being, you know, they had that Colts, that international Colts game that was just like such a low point of last year. It was embarrassing. I think the crafts were embarrassed. They really care about the international stuff, the grow the game stuff. Are you looking at that going, you know, knock, knock, Gerard, we want to unveil our third

overall pick at Wembley Stadium, you know, it's the international game against the Jaguars. Everybody loves it because that's what they think even though that's fair. And if he if he plays poorly, no one knows because it happened at 9.30 a.m. I know, but they really know. I can't explain to you how hard. it hit in the reasons why Bill Belichick got fired that, where was that, that cold scheme was in, that was the one in Frankfurt. It was in Germany, I think it was Germany, yeah, that they got embarrassed in Germany. It was like a big deal.

Well, yeah, I mean, like you said, it's either, I guess you it's national TV, but it's also in another country. If there's potential for embarrassment, which way do you go there? And it's like a Jacobi. Do we need a Jacobi? Do we need a Jacobi? Do we need a Jacobi? scapegoat meter going on? Like, what is Jacob? How well does Jacoby have to play to keep Drake May off the bench, no matter what's going on? Like, let's say the defense is bad, and they're putting up 23 points a game, and Jacoby is like 12th in QBR or something.

Are they taking them out then, or are we like, let's just keep letting Jacoby play? I just want Jacobi percent to get to start one season. Can I get that once? I think it has very little to do with him and more so when do they think Drake May is ready. Like, they're not going to put Drake May in because they think he's better. than Jacoby Burset, they're going to put him in because they think, all right, he's going to be okay and take his lumps as a rookie. At least that's what I could be wrong. Now, if they start out like, you know, three and two, four and one, it's like, hey, maybe this team has a chance to get the

wild card. Then I think you're potentially correct there that then they would say leave him in. But unless that's the case, I think it's more about May and less about percent. I'm with you. I mean, there are other teams that should have just signed Jacobi Bresset this offseason to a low-level deal and just been like you're starting for us this year. If he's the 20th best quarterback in the NFL, that's a, you know, great outcome for what he's getting paid. So it was a little surprising that he went to New England, a team that a rookie is going to start at some point.

Whatever having to try to win games. He's playing this absolutely perfectly, though, because he's just been like, he says all the right things. He says, like, I'm here to help him. I want to help him, which I could not care less if that's true or not. That's not his job. That's the coaching staff's job. But he is making it.

like Jacoby Brissette is a hard is a hard person to scapegoat. Now NFL teams they can scapego just about anybody when they said their minds to it. But he doesn't make it easy. We won't fall for it. This show, this website, we will not fall. I just want to say like Jacoby's agent.

Like pick better teams. He can't pick the Patriots, obviously, but you're playing behind the greatest quarterback of all time. You go to Miami. You're playing behind a first round pick and Tua. You go to Cleveland. You're playing behind a quarterback with a 230 million, fully garri- guaranteed deal. Now you go to New England and you're playing behind another first, a top five pick. And then you go to Washington, a team that needed to make Howell work or else they were

getting fired. So he just needs to pick his teams better. Go to like the Saints. You can beat Derek Carr out. Come on now. I agree. You know what? That's a great. I agree. How about this? I have no idea who his agent is. I don't even know if he has an agent. Hey, Jason Light. You want you want to pay Baker 40 million per year or you want to give my guy eight million. for one year. We don't even need another year on that bad boy. I mean, that should be a pretty easy decision if you're the bucks. Plug for set into that offense.

I mean, is there a drop off? No, is there an upgrade? Maybe if it's going to be the same range, I'm with you. Yeah, I think there have been teams that have needed sort of a, not even just a bridge, but are looking for competent starting quarterback play. Maybe they're in that middle ground. And those should be the teams he's on, not the teams that he's found himself too. I'm going to throw in an extra ruling.

This is not silly. This talk we just had. This is some serious talk. Yeah. I appreciate that. I agree. All right. There you go.

All right. My last one. I'm sticking with the rookie quarterbacks. This is from ESPN.com. Bears vets lift up Caleb Williams after struggles in practice. Now, let me be clear. I'm not. We're not drawing a big conclusion out of one practice.

I know that would be silly. Let's go a little bit further. But here's what happened last week. Again, Bears practice is open to the media. Caleb Williams takes some sacks. He holds on to the ball. He's laid on some throws. Kevin Byard, the safety is talking afterwards saying we had a good day.

I'm not going to sit here and lie about it, but it's to be expected. You know, you have a good defense. You have a rookie quarterback. That's what it's supposed to look like. DJ Moore says it's frustrating, but we also know that we're learning a new system. And so I just read this and I thought to myself, like I picked the bear. I think right now if I had to make my playoff predictions, I've got the Bears get again.

And I went back and I looked just to say, we know QB wins or wins is not a QB stat, but at the same time, how often has a rookie quarterback, like been on a team that has won a lot of games? And I guess I was a little bit surprised here. The last 10 years, there have been 21 first-round picks

who have made at least 10 starts as a rookie, and two of them, Mack Jones and C.J. Stroud are the only ones who have been on teams, when they've started that have won at least nine games, if that makes sense. So two out of 21 rookie quarterbacks have won nine games as a rookie. That's first round picks. If we expand it to all picks, it's three out of 27.

So we're talking like 10%, 11% of the time. And I was trying to check myself with the recency bias, with the C.J. Stroud stuff. But then I was also being like, no, she'll, don't do that. Go back to your initial take because the bears are not a usual team with the number one overall pick. This was a solid team last year. They had the Panthers pick, and that's why they're getting Caleb Williams. So I'm curious what you two think. Again, it's not about the one day of practice. We know rookie quarterbacks are going to struggle in spring. But as we think about, is there too much optimism around the Bears? Not enough optimism around the Bears, given those

numbers I just cited, Nora, where do you think? Where are you on Caleb Williams and the Bears and whether this is a transition year or it's going to be a year where they actually sneak in and get some playoff excitement. Look, I think I'm still in. I'm still in. I'm still all the way in.

Now, the playoff thing, because I think there's, you got to deal with the Lions, you got to deal with the Packers in that division. Who knows what's going to happen with Minnesota. I think it's not an easy, like it's not a slam dunk. They're making the playoffs for me.

I think it's going to be tough and I think there's going to be inevitable growing pains even though I think that Caleb has the potential to be a special player and to be a player who within a context that's a lot better than a number one overall pick would usually enter into can get up to speed relatively quickly. I still think they're kind of on that cuspy. Like they'll be in the hunt all year. Maybe they make it. Maybe they don't. I don't feel like, you know, I might go out on a limb for them because it's sort of fun and we are all team content.

But I don't know that I feel like totally sure. what I will say is I am so full silly season on the idea that like he's behind schedule in any way based on those practices. I just think like what are you doing there, right? You're working on developing timing, which is something that an offense has to do. And then you get your defense in there and it's one of the, you know, it's the middle of May. All they've got to do is react. So you get a new quarterback in there. he's working on stuff that the offense is a step behind the defense with anyway.

And then he's not used to those players. He's getting used to a new situation. It just looks a little, it looks a little messy. And that's a good defense. We saw that defense really, really take some steps forward at points last season. So I'm still excited about the bears. I do think it's a, it's a good point by you or a good sort of line of thinking by you, shield that it is very possible to get out over our skis with hyping up Caleb Williams as

the next Mahomes and all of a sudden the Bears are going to be Super Bowl contenders right away. That's not my expectation for them in 2024. But I think this is just fine. And they're still one of the teams that I'm the most looking forward to watching this season. Ruiz, what do you think? Yeah, I would say

I would say the Bears hype is justified but I feel like the source of the hype is coming from the wrong places like I think the hype is based on Caleb Williams and like Keenan Allen joining this offense which like Caleb Williams he was my QB1 I think he's going to be a great player he's a rookie quarterback learning a new system

and having to adapt from an air raid offense Keenan Allen like I think was a very productive player on a bad offense and who is older on the wrong side of 30 has slowed down in past years. I don't think the offensive evolution is going to be the reason they make the playoffs. I think it's what we saw in the second half of last year with the defense, and how good that defense was. This team won four of their last six games with Justin Fields at quarterback.

Caleb Williams doesn't have to be C.J. Stroud for them to make the playoffs. He has to be like, I don't, Andy Dalton with the Bengals his rookie year. Like, that's all he has to be. And I think he can be that if this defense is as good as it was last year and carries the momentum it had in the second half from last year, which I think is totally possible. I don't think this is like some weird first half, second half split. There was a big trade they made. And we saw how that changed the defense.

And the defense got better. And their personnel got better. And I think that's real. And I think it's going to carry over. So I don't think Caleb has to be, he could go through growing pains and they could still make the playoffs. So I'll say, no, it's not silly. Like the bear's hype.

I do think like concerning yourself over this stuff is silly, though. Yeah, I think we're all on the same page. I think I looked it up a couple. It was last year or the year before, just sort of the average rookie quarterback who plays. Where do they rank among starters? And it was like the 24th or the 26th best starter in the NFL. So on general, the average season, they're going to struggle.

But then think about what Ruiz just said. Like if he's the 19th or 20th best starter in the NFL with everything else, the supporting cast around him, you've got a new OC and Shane Waldron. You expect the defense to be good. The schedule is favorable for them. like that could be enough to get you to nine or ten wins and make the playoffs. Right now on Fandals, they are at 50-50.

Yes and no, minus 110 both. So I think it's, you know, they're kind of right where we're describing them that a team that's going to be competitive in the mix and it could be injuries. It could be his growth. It could be, you know, a turnover here and there, a bad call here and there that determines in week 18 whether they get in or whether they're not in. But yes, I mean, I don't remember. reading spring reports for a rookie quarterback unless it was, unless it was just nonsense reports

where you're just like this guy's lighting it up. I mean, it's just, it is every single year a rookie quarterback in the spring, especially. Now, to Ruiz's point, in August, you want to read some of those days. Hey, you know, Caleb Williams, you want to hear Kevin Byard being like, man, you know, the young kid carved us up a little bit today and he's making progress. You want to see those stories. And we can determine at that point, whether they're nonsense or not. But yeah, in May, this is what happens.

It is a hard transition and the defense is a good defense. Well, and here's what I, the other thing that I would say is like if, if the bears get to the end of next season and DBOA, pitch or pick your set of metrics or whatever, if they finish ranked better defensively than offensively, I actually have enough confidence in Caleb Williams being, you know, half decent or better relative to. to other rookie starting rookie quarterbacks who start to say that I think that's good news for the Bears. I think that equates to the Bears having a pretty successful season and being a pretty well-rounded team that can can withstand some of the ups and downs of a young player getting used to a new team transitioning into a new offense and figuring it out in a way that that probably correlates with Bears success.

So I actually don't, I don't think this is, you know, Caleb Blooms is the most important person in that organization. So obviously you don't want to hear about him struggling. But actually, I don't think that's really bad news for the bears at all. Right. If he was carving them up. In a context in which they should make some plays. Yeah, if he's carving up that defense, you're like, wait, hold up now. He couldn't carve up Utah's defense a couple months ago.

Yeah, no, it's a good point. And they're young. Yeah, the bear's defense is young. So to your point, it's not like, I mean, Byard's old, but most of their starters, they have a lot of up and coming. players, they spent a lot of draft capital there that those guys theoretically should improve. All right. There you go. Silly or serious.

I don't know if I did it right. As you guys know, I have trouble, you know, following rules and guidelines on some of these games. Well, listen, we got to a lot of good stuff. It was fun surprises in there. Some of those that I didn't even know, oh, this is the Tua thing. I feel like, wait, I think I heard this. The Justin Jefferson thing, I hadn't heard.

So it was fun to get to all of those. Thank you to Nora Princiotti and Stephen Ruiz. also producer Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to him and Kiera Givens on social. Additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgobal. I'm Shil Kapadia. We will talk to you next time on the Ringer NFL show.