The Ringer NFL Show - Six Coaches on the Hot Seat and Quarterbacks in Crisis

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

Following the firing of Bears offensive coordinator Shane Waldron, Sheil Kapadia and Nora Princiotti take a look at six NFL head coaches who may not return to their roles next year (02:10). And in ��QB Corner,” The Ringer’s resident QB guru, Steven Ruiz, examines four QBs who are entering crisis mode (42:15). Check out Sheil’s Week 10 review article here. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia, Nora Princiotti, and Steven Ruiz Producer: Troy Farkas Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Brian Curtis from The Ringer, and I want to tell you about the Press Box podcast. The Press Box is a podcast for anybody who likes news, whether it's about sports or politics or pop culture, and wants to understand how that news really gets made. We have news shows every Monday and Thursday. We have long interviews with everyone from John Crackauer to Joe Buck. Your social media feeds are bursting with information every day. Let us help you sort it out. Join us on the show.

press box. Welcome to the ringer NFL show. Shield Capadia here with Nora Princeati. We're going to do a little hot seat check-in. The tensions are high with some of these organizations. Coaches are starting to feel the heat. We're going to take a look at six coaches and try to assess how are we feeling about these guys? How safe are their jobs? Now, how safe will their jobs be when the season's over? So that's going to be the first segment. Then we bring in Stephen Ruiz for a special QB corner. He wanted to look at the quarterbacks who are under some turmoil, spotlight on them this week. So we'll go over those guys in the second segment. Nora, I was thinking earlier today, I like this time of year, because I'm just like, some of these teams, I'm just like, see you later. Now we can focus on the

storylines that matter. I don't need to pay much attention to you. And so I feel like this is Week 11, I'll remember for future seasons, week 11 is when that starts to happen. Yeah, this feels like a sort of satisfying week because we can cross some teams off. A couple really good matchups coming up on Sunday. Maybe we'll get some answers there too. Things are starting to fall into place. It's a good week. It's a good week.

We got big games coming up in week 11. But first, we got to get to these coaches because. There's stuff going. A lot of these teams around the NFL. There are questions about these coaches. Are they going to last the season? Are they definitely gone after the season? Are they maybe gone after the season?

So we're going to look at six of them. Matt Eberfluse of the Chicago Bears. Nick Siriani of the Philadelphia Eagles. Mike McCarthy of the Dallas Cowboys. Brian Daiball of the New York Giants, Doug Peterson of the Jacksonville Jaguars, and Antonio Pierce of the Las Vegas. Raiders. It's funny as I look at this and I'm like, Nick, Nick's here on, he's seven and two.

He's like, come on, you can't give me a break? Like, all these other teams stink. My team says one, five in a row and I'm still part of the conversation. But we're going to place them all in one of three categories. The first one is, it's over. Self-explanatory. You know what that means. Safe for now. That's kind of the next step towards maybe being safe. And then check back with me in January where we're not saying everything's fine, but maybe things are trending. in the right direction. Nora, we have to start with the Chicago Bears. I feel like they're the spotlight team this week.

They fire offensive coordinator, Shane Waldron, after going 22 straight possessions without scoring a touchdown. Where are you? I buried the Bears on our Sunday night show and in my column on the ringer.com. I think it's over for them this season. But in terms of Matt Iberfluse, his job security, how the next couple months are going to play out.

Where are you with the Chicago Bears and Iber Fluse? Well, I put Iber Fluse in the sort of safe for now category, which I was thinking of in terms of, I don't think this is looking great, but I'm also not anticipating this necessarily be something that is going to be a mid-season move. And a big part of that is, you know, they let go Shane Waldron today.

First of all, I do think, you know, that is the textbook panic move. of you want to save your job, so you cut the offensive coordinator and battled offensive coordinator loose. But the other thing is that I kept seeing people bring up today that the Bears organization, even just letting the offensive coordinator go, this is like a thing that they just historically do not do midseason. And they haven't done it with a head coach and that it would be very unlikely for the Bears to do a midseason firing just organizationally. So I think that one is just sort of a fact of how they like to do business, but two, I do think it buys zebra flus a little bit of time.

I think this is a team that has been in total meltdown, basically, since the commander's game. And I don't think that bodes very well for him. I think we're starting to see a lot of comments from the locker room that indicate a lack of trust in the coaching. but here is just the sliver of hope for him that I will say. There was a time in early October when this team was scoring 30 plus points a game. Caleb Williams looked good. Everybody was getting excited. And the defense overall, they're doing pretty well, especially in the advanced metrics.

So there's a world in which I think Iber Fluse can make the case for himself. if they get back to what they looked like a few weeks ago before it all started to fall apart. But I don't feel, I want to be very clear, I don't feel optimistic for him on this one. Yeah, no, I agree with you. You know, you look at it on paper and you say, all right, it's not, you know, horrible. They're still kind of in the mix for a playoff spot if they can turn it around. It's just the way that they've gotten here. I mean, the last three weeks couldn't have gone any worse.

when you have Tyreeks Stevenson and that, you know, talking to the fans as the ball's being snapped for a game losing Hail Mary one week. When you have DJ Moore leaving the field in the middle of a play and then he and Matt Eberfluse give different versions of why that happened. And that's the next week you get blown out against the Arizona Cardinals. And then, of course, we see what happened this last week. You're at home, six and a half point favorites against the quarterback who got taken after Caleb Williams.

And that guy looks way more comfortable, way more comfortable. way more competent, even though he doesn't have a great supporting cast, and you don't score a touchdown in that game either. And now you fire your offensive coordinator. So they're checking like every box for team that is just in full meltdown mode. And I think for Matt Eberfluse, you know, when you're a defensive-minded head coach, most important hire is offensive coordinator. And he's had two shots at this. Luke Getsy didn't work out. And now Shane Waldron. And now there's this fun inside football topic, which you and I will appreciate. appreciate having covered teams, but I'm seeing circulating around Chicago. I don't know if you've seen this. I didn't realize this until today that Ryan Poles, Matt Iberfluse, and Shane Waldron are all represented by the same agent, Trace Armstrong, which happens all the time in the NFL. A coach, when a coach gets hired and he's not sure who am I going to bring on to my staff, a lot of times you go check the page of that agency.

And, oh, this is the offensive coordinator. he settled on. Oh, this is the defensive coordinator. He settled on. And it happens a lot with just the GM coach combinations too. A GM gets hired. And it's like, well, who am I going to hire? It's my head coach.

Sometimes they have an idea. Other times it's like, well, we should interview these three people. And oh, they just happen to be represented by the same agent. So you've got those stories circulating in Chicago as well. Well, and there are just not that many. You know, there's plenty of inside baseball going on, but there's not that many coaching agents. Right.

There are a lot more, I don't know if people really know that. Like, there are a lot of player agents. They're not that many agents who specialize in coaches and then especially front office. So there's just a lot of, you know, there's a lot of opportunities for, oh, I know this guy and I know this guy and I know this guy. But it doesn't reflect well on how you're doing business. Yeah. So that's not looking good in Chicago. They had the hardest remaining schedule in the NFL.

So I think you're right. The one thing they have going for them is that that defense and that past defense specifically can be really, really good and really, really suffocating and keep you in games where if your offense can just be like league average for a stretch, you have a chance to win some of these games. But for me, they're checking every box for a team where this is going to go downhill in a hurry. They haven't hit rock bottom yet. And I think they're going to be looking for a new coach at the end of the season. I do too.

I mean, to me, the thing is, is the player comments. Because you could make a case that, okay, what's been the worst thing about this team? It's been, it's been these sort of calamity moments, but more broadly than that, it's been the offense. They've had a lot of injuries on the offensive line. And I think there's probably some conversation about what's going on with Caleb Williams, why he's not able to create outside of the pocket like he did in college. But, you know, let's remember that this is a player very early. on in his transition to the NFL, you could pin a lot of that stuff on Shane Waldron if you

wanted to. And of course, that does go back to, okay, part of your job as head coach is to choose who you hire. But if you wanted a scapegoat here, you could find one. And then in theory, if, you know, they got back to going, making things look a little bit easier for Caleb in the pocket, they start scoring some more points, they don't have these disaster moments, they don't do the weird stuff, like the third and one handoff to the backup center, like you get out of the headlines that way, then maybe it starts to look okay.

And, you know, I think based on what we've just watched with the Jets over the last few weeks, I think moving on from Iberfluse in season could potentially not be a great idea just because, okay, then what if your defense falls apart? And at least for the time being, like, that's the thing that you can hang your hat on. the reason though that I can't really like fully put my chest into that argument is just the number of things that go wrong. And then we hear from players like I think it was more who criticized the third and one handoff that play at the goal line. You know, we've obviously there's been the benchings and just the number of headlines where it feels like it's just a disorganized team. it's not a team that's all on the same page.

It's not a team that necessarily has a lot of respect for its leadership. That to me is the part where I can't, like, I can't pin that on Shane Waldron not being a great offensive coordinator. And that ultimately is why I think it's going to be the end. And that's kind of unusual. Usually dirt when the coach is still there, the players will usually like stick up for the head coach, unless they just don't like the head coach,

which we saw in your life with the Saints players where they were on shy about speaking up about how they felt about Dennis Allen. It hasn't quite gotten to that point, but it also hasn't gotten to the point where they're like, no, we believe in this guy. We're going to write the ship, that kind of thing. So the vibes are not good in Chicago. All right, next coach on our list. Nick Siriani, maybe had the hottest seat in the NFL coming into the season. Now they're seven and two. They've won five in a row. Nora, if you go to his, if you go a pro football reference, Nick Siriani's page.

He is 41 and 19 as a head coach. 683 winning percentage. That is ninth in NFL history ahead of George Hallis and Don Chula, Nora, and we're doing a hot seat segment about him. I was actually looking at this earlier today because I was doing a segment about, you know, kind of how people are thinking about Tomlin right now with how good that team has been. and sort of where he rates.

And I was like, okay, active coaches who have a better winning percentage. And it did, I saw, you know, I was going through and thinking like, okay, which ones of these, if I were starting a team, which of these guys would I hire before I hired Mike Tomlin?

And you've actually, you've got Jim Harbaugh on the list, you've Andy Reed. But the Nick Siriani, I was like, LOL. I literally have that on my Google doc. Yeah, LOL, with next to his winning percentage.

have a joke on the ringer's uh philly special that you can tell what we do a show uh me and e j smith from the philadelphia inquire we do a show every thursday night like previewing the next week's game and we joke you can tell what kind of week nick syriani's had uh by whether his name gets we do a nick syriani temperature check does that come before the first break or after the first break if it comes before the first break seriani did something this week and we got to talk about it if it's after the first break it's like oh syriani stayed out of the first break it's like oh syriani stayed out of way this week, nothing to see here. So that's been kind of his job is to stay out of the way in the first four or five weeks of the season. He did not do a good job of that. Now things have calmed

a little bit. And so I've got him in the safe for now camp. Any given week, there could be something with him where I totally changed my mind and say, no, no, no, this isn't going to work out well. But for now, at least, it feels like things have calmed down. Yeah, I mean, you are the expert here. I put him in check back in January. Just because like you said, this is a seven and two team. I know it was a little bit of a clown show in the early weeks there. But if they finished the season with that type of record, I mean, do you think Jeffrey Lurie would do it?

Well, yeah, last year they finished 11 and 6, but it was the way they got there. They started 10 and 1 and then they fell apart. Right. And they have an embarrassing loss in the wildcard round. But if it's sort of a competent operation where they pile up wins and, you know, they don't get to the Super Bowl, but it's like a respectable type loss. I think all those things are pretty much at play. But you're right. I mean, there comes a point where if they're, if they're like the winning the NFC East and getting to the divisional round, are you really going to fire that head coach? Now, we can have like a spirit conversation about, well, how much is Siriani doing? I've said it all along. Where does he give you the edge? Is he additive? You know, I think you can look at this team and say, you got to.

Vic Fangio, who's coached up that defense. Their seventh and defensive DVOA now. So that's the defense. And then offensively, it's like the most talented unit in the NFL. I mean, their wide receivers are a top five unit. They're running back as a top five player. Their offensive line is top five. They paid Jalen Hertz a lot of money.

And he's played well in recent weeks. So it's like, I don't know. I am noticing that one of those things was not quite like the other. Yeah, I mean, Jail and Hertz is in the best position of any quarterback in the NFL. There's no doubt about it. I don't think he's the one lifting everybody up. Like, I sometimes wonder about past what other quarterbacks look at that eagle situation and are like, give me a break.

I would love to be in that spot. But you look at all that and you go, is Siriani the reason? So that's why it's like, yeah, it looks good now. But I think you just have to see kind of how the season ends. How often is he in the headlines? What's he bringing to the table? How do the playoffs go? Because I do think after last season, they gave a hard look at do we make a move?

now decided to run it back. I thought that was a bad move. But like you said, now there's seven and two, so maybe I'm wrong. Yeah, I guess I just default to, I think in general, these owners are pretty averse to making a move.

They do think on some level of these coaching hires is a reflection of their own choices. And if Siriani kept his job after the way last season ended, then I feel like that is basically saying if you can do better than that this year,

you'll keep it. That wasn't bad enough for him to get fired then. And therefore, I think they're basically just, that's the bar, you've got to clear that bar. This season has not been a perfect Eagles season. They're not my NFC Super Bowl pick. I don't get the sense that this season is shaping up for the kind of disaster that the end of last season was. And if that wasn't enough, it's just hard for me to say that this will be because it seems like what would you say that he did necessarily?

Yeah, if his job is to kind of get out of the way and manage the locker room and do the press conferences while Fangio coaches the off the defense and the talent kind of takes over. on offense, then I think he's done that in recent weeks. Again, volatile situation. Is that such a bad coaching situation? I'm so tempted to say, like, if they, you know, if these owners were more committed to, like, truly getting an edge from their coaching, they would make moves more often. I'm with you. It's hard to say, like, where does he add wins to your team?

Right. But also, then what you just described where it's like, okay, you kind of have this CEO, he lays back. Fangio does Fangio stuff. that's working out. And then on offense, the machine just kind of carries on. I'm like, that's probably a better coaching situation than half the league. Right.

It's certainly limited. You don't know personnel control. You know, they're telling you what to do from the top. So it is a unique coaching situation for sure in Philadelphia. All right. Next guy. This one's interesting because I wonder, I went back and forth on this guy. And that might surprise some people, but I totally know who this is going to be.

Mike McCarthy. Yeah. In Dallas. So they're three and six. They're horribly coached. I mean, their season's over. Dack is done. And yet, I'm not convinced Mike McCarthy isn't going to survive this and be the head coach next year.

Shield, can we just acknowledge that neither you or I can answer this question because Mike McCarthy's fate rests within the heart and mind of a deranged and elderly man. Like, I don't know. You think I can tell you what Jerry Jones is going to do in January? He's like out here talking about the moon. Curtains. I went with this over because it should be over. But I do think that like Jerry has a weird relationship with the coaches that he hires. Yes.

My gut says that the fact that McCarthy is not, he actually wouldn't have to be fired. he's on an expiring contract so they could kind of make it a cling and like parting of ways. I wonder if that is enough to just make it feel better for Jerry because I really truly think that that's what we're talking about here. Like I, you know,

oh, he's got a good win record. Oh, how many games would he need to win with Cooper Rush in order to keep the job? Like, none of this matters. This is about the feelings of a strange billionaire. And I feel like it's, the NFL. Like, that's a best summation of what the NFL is that I've ever heard.

Yeah. Feelings of strange billionaires. I think based on that, like, and my best way of reading the tea leaves about the feelings of a strange billionaire is that because he doesn't actually have to fire him, that this will be the year that Jerry Jones actually says goodbye to Mike McCarthy. That is literally all. Like, I have a note here that's like, I don't know, maybe he could scapegoat Zimmer. But like, maybe we're.

we're talking about a very mercurial person at the helm of an organization who has already shown us a lot of the chaos and silliness that ensues because of that. And I just have, I have nothing to say to you to suggest that whether Mike McCarthy loses or keeps his job will follow any other type of internal logic. I think you said it well. I will add a couple things. A couple things to remember here. Number one, I love the point you made about Jerry's relationships with his head coaches. Jason Garrett got nine seasons in Dallas. Nine seasons.

He won two playoff games. He went eight and eight for three straight seasons to start his career, did not make the playoffs, and still was not fired. So what is the lesson there? The lesson in there is Jerry is patient if he likes the guy personally. See, we make the mistakes. A mistake of saying, well, who's going to give the Cowboys the best chance to win the Super Bowl? No, if we want to get inside that deranged, that deranged head of Jerry Jones, that isn't the priority. He's told us that's not the priority.

The priority is, I mean, they like making money. We've seen that. They view themselves as an entertainment product. We've seen that. Jerry doesn't want a coach who's going to challenge him. We know that. He wants control. He wants authority.

Mike McCarthy, check. those boxes. He wants a coach who he can have lunch with or have a nice bourbon with in the evening. And, you know, hey, this is fun. This guy's a good hang. It seems to me like they understand each other. I don't know if they like each other or not. It seems like they would have no issue doing those things where some other coaches on the market, you would say, I can't really see them playing the games with Jerry when Jerry's holding a press conference in the hallway after you just lose a game and he's answering the questions before you get to the podium. So I add all those things up. and I'm looking at the market for coaches, Bill Belichick isn't going to want to deal with that.

Is he, Mike Frable's not going to want to deal with that? That's not going to be a good, Ben Johnson, we already saw he was picky last year. I don't think he's just going to go to Dallas all of a sudden when it's not a great situation. So I add those things up. And then I look at Jerry and I say, he might look at this and say, Mike McCarthy gave us three straight 12 win seasons. All right, we didn't have playoff success, but we were a pretty good team for three straight seasons. We got hit with bad injury luck, but that happens. I'm going to bring him back. I don't have a better option right now. I'm comfortable. I like the setup. We'll get Dak Prescott

healthy. We're going to have a high draft pick probably. We'll add a little bit here and there, and we'll be back in the playoff mix next year. So I actually have this as a check back with me in January because I'm not sure that Mike McCarthy is not going to be the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys next season. Wow. I don't know. I wouldn't totally rule out that given the opportunity, Belichick would fully turn up his nose at Dallas.

Because he and Jerry get along. Some people like Mercurial billionaires. There you go. All right. So we will see what happens with the Dallas Cowboys. Dak Prescott, of course, announced today out for the, season. So they're going to have a tough stretch here over the next eight weeks and going to be a hot topic of conversation, what they do at head coach, and who would potentially want to take

that job. All right. Let's take a break. We come back. We got three more to hit on Brian Daiball, Doug Peterson, and Antonio Pierce. All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. I find this one to be kind of tough as well. Brian Daible, the New York Giants are not a good team. They're 17, 26, and one since Daibald got there. Good first season. They make the playoffs. Everyone's excited about him. They give Daniel Jones that ridiculous contract, which was a mistake at the time.

And this is in hindsight. Go back to listen to the ringer NFL shows from all of us. Why don't you just give the franchise tag to Daniel Jones? Now they were stuck with him. Two bad seasons. They can get out of it at the end of the year. Where are you with Brian Daibal, the New York Giants and his job security? So I put check back with me.

in January on this. I think that I was actually leaning that his seat would be a little hotter. But last week, this is not to take everything that an NFL owner says, you know, completely to the bank, but last week, there was an NFL films event where John Morrow was interviewed and said, we are not making any changes this season. And I do not anticipate making any changes in the off season either, which I I don't think it means it's like written in stone that Daibald's going to stick around. But I do think that that's like a window into how ownership there is, is thinking about this job, which honestly surprised me a little bit.

You know, I don't think, I think the problems with this Giants team, this Giants offense in particular, it's the quarterback well before it's the coaching. Maybe watch this team. there are open receivers that Daniel Jones is just not throwing the ball to. Obviously, the offense has been designed with a lot of his limitations in mind, and it's certainly not the most explosive entity. But I don't think Brian Dable's, like, done a horrible job of trying to make it better there. But what I know is that the thing that's going to happen in the near term is they're going to sit Jones because they're not going to want his injury guarantees to potentially trigger.

if he got hurt. I forgot about that. Yeah, you're right. That's going to be, I think that's, I mean, they've started answering, both Dayball and Joe Shane have started answering questions this week, giving the types of answers that to me

say that this is coming soon because they're just, they won't, it's very easy to commit to a quarterback if you're committed to a quarterback and they won't do it. And so that's going to happen. You know, I don't know if they'll get a lot worse when that happens,

but presumably this is going to continue to be a bad team. And they're looking at the draft where they'll probably have a pretty high pick. And I guess I just don't think that that Daibol has done enough over the course of the tenure there. His best product basically being that season where they squeaked into the playoffs. And that was fun, but that was not a juggernaut team by any means. I don't know how you could look at that and say, like, I feel great about this being the guy

who we're going to let have. help pick the next quarterback and then coach the next quarterback. I'm a little cautioned against that based on the quotes about ownership, not feeling like they're going to make any changes. But at least I think that means he's not in like imminent danger and should be totally safe to play out the year. I'm still defaulting to it would be the right idea to move on. And I wonder if they'll end up there just because it's been such an underwe.

season. Yeah, I'm going to check back with me in January as well because of the points you made. I mean, is there a case that just could anyone design an offense with Daniel Jones playing the way he's playing in this offensive line? Like, I don't know. You could certainly say, we know what the Giants thought. They had the cameras on all off season. They were trying to get rid of Daniel Jones. And Brian Daibald, now I was thinking about there was the one scene where they brought up Jane and Daniels. And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I would love to have him. He's looking pretty good for that right now, but they weren't able to make a move at quarterback and they're going to have to try again this offseason. So you've got that. I almost feel like just Joe Shane is under more

pressure or his seat is hotter than Brian Davel, which you touched on. I mean, their, you know, their front office moves have not worked out when you look at it. And we know that ownership was not on board with all the moves that Joe Shane made last off season. So you add all those things up. I also think the giants want to be looked at, you know, their ownership, like, we are a stable franchise. We are not impulsive and reactionary. Like, we're going to be patient with our coaches. This is a good place to work.

We're the classy New York Giants. Even though the results haven't said that, I think like that sort of, you know, they want that out there that they're not just going to fire a guy at the first sign of trouble here. So I add all those things up. And actually, yeah, I think he's got a chance, you know, a chance. to stay. I actually think this is a team where how the rest of the season plays out kind of matters, even though they're not in the playoff things. Like we were saying with Iberfluse, are the players like, no, it's not on dayball. Are they, you know, are they a little frisky? Are they more competitive?

Do they look like, all right, they're well coached, but they don't have the guys? Or are they just a complete embarrassment that you're like, this team's terrible? You got to move on from the coach. I actually think that might matter to ownership. So while I won't be grinding the New York Giants film down the stretch here, you know, there are reasons sort of league-wide to pay attention to them. Well, and Daples has been an interesting character kind of personality-wise because I have the impression that usually he's been pretty well-liked, that he was pretty well-liked in Buffalo, that Josh Allen really loved him, that there's a lot of support.

And obviously, he goes to the Giants sort of as part of a collective with Shane. and there's a relationship there. So generally, I think of him as a guy who has a lot of people on his side. I imagine that extends to the locker room. It doesn't seem like for all of the issues they've had that they have big problems with buy-in. But then on the flip side,

there was that weird power struggle with Wink Martindale last season. And I don't know. I think because that felt like it sort of came out of nowhere, it's really stuck in my head as like how many people, are there people in this organization that actually aren't pulling for this guy or maybe find him a little bit abrasive? And now I don't know that that's something that would rise to the level of getting to ownership. But I'm just, it's something I remain curious about. And sometimes

when teams struggle, those stories have a way of coming to the surface and you find out a lot. Yeah. No, it's a good point. Last 10 years, Nora, I have a question for you. How many more wins do you think the Giants have than the New York Jets over the last 10 years. I know I'm just throwing this out at you. So you can any, no wrong answers. Sheila, you know what my first thought was what year is it? So that's 2014 to 2024. I'm including this year's year.

So 15 to 2024. Yeah, including this season. 15 to 2024. Yeah. Okay. Seven? Good guess. It's two.

The Giants over the last 10 years are 56 101. that is 30th in winning percentage in the NFL. The Jets are 54 and 103 for a 344 winning percentage. That's 31st in the NFL. And then the Jaguars are last there with 53 wins. Over the last 10 years, the only teams that have fewer wins than the New York Giants are the Jets and the Jaguars. That's to the Jets listeners out there. You've been through enough. But remind everybody, the Giants have kind of sucked as much as we've sucked over the last decade. We have all the bagels. Yeah.

New York is great. I love New York. Yeah, I'm just saying, this were Jets fans who they get ragged on all the time. And they're thinking, come on, the giants have been terrible too. Throw some of that stuff their way. Pizza, great Italian food. It's making me so hungry. Fall in New York is amazing.

It's okay, guys. Autumn in the Northeast. You know, I was having a sentimental today. Just walking around. I'm like, this is the best time to take a walk. There's nothing like it. There you go. All right.

We got two more coaches to get to here. Doug Peterson, he used to take some walks in the Northeast. Now, yeah, I think he's going to have a lot of time to take some walks pretty soon because this Jaguars team is 2 and 8. Trevor Lawrence looks like could be out the rest of the year. I thought this one was pretty easy. I don't know what you thought. This is a, it's over for me.

It's just a matter of whether ownership wants him to play out the season or just say, like if he's gone next week, that would not. shock me. I mean, to me, the only thing that was challenging about this one is like, should we invent another category that's like, I'm shocked. It's not over already. Yeah. Yeah. How are you still here? 145 total net yards in that game against the Vikings. That is the worst ever for a Peterson-led team. Wow. And, you know, obviously that the injury to Trevor Lawrence is a factor in that. But two things, the week before against the Eagles wasn't that much better. 115 instead of 145.

And then here's the thing. That game plan for Mac Jones, I mean, this is not to say that Mac Jones is going to give you a lot out there. That was a terrible game plan for Mac Jones. There's like no effort on the offensive side of the ball to use RPO's, use play action, do the type of stuff that, you know, when Mac Jones has strung together decent performances, that's been the type of stuff that a team has done. Now, obviously, like, the offensive line and the overall infrastructure,

structure there is just not in a good state. But if there is one thing, like, if you're Doug Peterson, you're trying to fight to keep your job, what is your resume built on? It's built on being able to take quarterbacks. And actually, quarterbacks who don't have skill sets that are terribly different than someone like Mack Jones and come up with something that's going to play to their strengths and make it look okay. And so I just, I mean, this is two.

really bad weeks in a row. And I'm surprised he's still sitting in that seat. Yeah. I wonder if he's like, can we just end this now? Yeah, I don't know how much he's. I mean, they have the same record at this point in the season that they did under Urban Meyer. Wow. That's well.

Yeah, I think this will be it for Doug Peterson. I don't think you'll coach again. I think he will golf a lot. I could like, there's part of me who wonders, would he take like a quarterback's coach job or something with one of his buddies or like a consultant. I don't know. Maybe, but I could also see him just being like, all right, it was a good run. I won a Super Bowl.

There's a statue of me outside Lincoln Financial Field in Philadelphia. I always forget that. Yeah, he could be like, I reached the pinnacle. I pants Bill Belichick in the Super Bowl, you know, like I got stuff on my resume. He totally did. He did. Like, no one can ever take. No.

This is like. it's a weird, I'm like shocked they're as bad as they are. Yeah. But they are that bad. Yeah. I mean, year one, they get to the divisional round and it looks like the arrow's pointing up. Last year was easily explained away, kind of, because Trevor Lawrence had all the

injuries. I picked him to make the playoffs this year because of kind of what you just said. I'm like, all right, they can bounce back. They have had some bad lock. You know, I think they're one and six or something in one score game. so maybe it hasn't been as bad, but it certainly has not been good. And the bottom line is they're two and eight.

And I'm sure ownership has been thinking about a new head coach for some time. So I think Dougie Pee will enjoy his post football coaching life. And yeah, that one is just a matter of time? And is this last one just a matter of time? Nora Antonio Pierce, they're two and seven. It was the quietest offensive coordinator firing, I feel like, in a long time. I forgot about it. so preparing for this pod, that they also fired their offensive coordinator,

who was previously the Bears offensive coordinator, Luke Getzzi, along with three assistant coaches. I just, I mean, I guess nothing would surprise me, but I had this as it's over. It's just kind of a matter of time. Yeah. I mean, I think that the three firings that they did make got overshadowed by the Dennis Allen move. And were it not for that, people probably would have spent a lot.

more time that week talking about the dysfunction with the Raiders and then they were on a buy. So I totally agree with you that they're sort of skating some of this negative attention. I wonder if moving on from the three assistants sort of buys him the season. I also, I mean, I know they're, you know, they're bringing in Norv Turner. But you start to get to a point where how many people are on that staff, right? like you need you need some bodies just to keep the train on the tracks through the end of the season. And so at a certain point, I'm not sure like what the, necessarily what the point is in moving on midseason. I do think it's pretty clear that this is going to be over at the end of the year.

And that he'll be won and done as an interim who got elevated to the top role, which the history of that is not great. So I guess I have him as safe for now because I just, I don't feel like this is going to be a midseason thing, but I would expect it to be over on Black Monday. I had this as it's over only because the like the relationships with the players have been weird with him this season. That's true. He kind of kept the job because the players are like,

you can't get rid of Max Crosby. It's like, you got to trade me if you get rid of this guy. And I think they're like, all right, well, the players really, really love this. guy, and that's just gone out the window. I mean, Devante Adams asked for the trade out of the blue, it seemed like. He made the business decisions, comment, you know, there's been other stuff. It seems like just reading, I think I was reading the athletics coverage today, or it just seems like weird stuff there with Antonio Pierce's relationship with the players. And so I do wonder

if it reaches a point where they're just like, all right, you know, we know we're going to make a move at the end of the season. Let's just make the move now. and move on. But, I mean, they're two and seven. They don't have a plan. They don't, they have like three good players on the roster. Let me ask you this last thing.

What do you think Tom Brady's role involvement? Like, do you think, assuming this happens and they're looking to start a new with new quarterback, new coach, probably new GM, although we don't know if Tom Telesco will survive that? Do you think Tom Brady is going to be like pretty involved and we're going to be reading stories or maybe not even reading.

stories, but we look at who they hire and we're like, that has Tom, that person has a connection with Tom Brady, that person has a connection with Tom Brady, or do you think that might be a little bit overblown? I guess I lean to it being a little overblown just because that would really fly in the face of what a typical minority ownership role of an NFL team is. Now, obviously, Tom Brady owning a few people. percentage points of the Raiders is not quite the same as Lewis Hamilton owning a few percentage points of the Broncos. But, you know, these NFL owners don't like to give up real control.

I do think it would not shock me if we hear some stories about the Raiders doing their interviews and, you know, Mark Davis doing interviews potentially with Tom Brady by his side. You know, they'd They do it at his big house wherever it is or on a boat somewhere. And it kind of ends up being maybe it's a little bit fun for Mark Davis to kind of have Tom Brady as his buddy to hang out with to be his partner going through a coaching search. And I'm sure there would be some amount of influence that Brady would be able to have based on that. You know, if Mike Vrable ends up the next coach of the Raiders, maybe I've been proven wrong in this. Yeah. I guess it would follow that if Phil Belichick does, I've been proven right, maybe.

But I don't think Brady's going to have like a huge role in making the call. Yeah. I'm interested to say, like, owners love, I mean, remember, like, Adam Gase got that Jets job because Peyton Manning called him up. Like they kind of, you know, they listen to some of these quarterbacks and they're like, oh, yeah, they think it's a good idea. Let's go for it. So it's certainly something to keep an eye on whenever that.

that move comes with Antonio Pierce. All right. Those are the coaches hot seat checking. Who knows? Norwe might be doing a breaking news pod in the weeks ahead. And then, you know, we don't root for anybody to get fired, but they'll be okay. Listen, the checks keep cashing. Team CTC, you get the direct deposit and you get to go do whatever you want with your life. So you'll be okay. But certainly a lot of ones to keep an eye on it. It will be an interesting head coaching hiring cycle with Belichick out there with Rabel out there with Ben Johnson, whoever else emerges here in the last eight weeks of this season. All right, Norprinciotti, thanks for joining us. We'll be back in a minute with Stephen Ruiz.

All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. Shield Capati here with Stephen Ruiz, QB Corner, but we're doing a little change-up this week. Ruiz, you thought maybe let's look at what, some of the quarterbacks who are in some turmoil, explain the conceit of this segment to the people. Yeah, that's the theme. Quarterbacks are offenses that are in crisis and how that's affecting the quarterbacks and what we can learn from those quarterbacks and their games in this bad environment.

Yeah, this is, it feels like a crisis week around the NFL where, you know, for a while, it's like, oh, this team's not living up the expectations. I was just talking with Nora, like, this is the week where stuff is ratcheted up to, like, panic levels. Like, there's only eight weeks left in the season. coordinators are getting fired left and right. Coaches are like, I got to make sure I keep my job. Like my career's on the line in the next eight weeks,

which is wild when you kind of think about it that way. So I think it's a good topic to talk about these guys. And not only for this season, but some of these guys, it's beyond this season. What moves do their organizations make? So we're going to get to those guys in a minute. But right now, it is time for today's better together segment presented by State Farm. When it comes to football season, some things are just better together.

And one guy we're going to talk about in this segment is C.J. Stroud. You know, two guys that are better together? C.J. Stroud and wide receiver, Nico Collins. So maybe Stroud hasn't had the sophomore campaign that some people have expected. But guess what? He could get Nico Collins back this week. This is a guy who was playing, like, legitimately a top five wide receiver earlier this season. when he was healthy. He was awesome last year with C.J. Stroud. And so I think Stroud and Collins are really

one of the best quarterback wide receiver tundoms in the NFL. And there's a chance that any issues that Houston's offense has had, Collins is really going to help them right away. You know, I said after they're lost to the lion Sunday night, I'm still in on this team. The defense has been really good. And Collins gives Stroud that option that he can trust, hey, get rid of the ball quickly. He can pick up yards after the catch. He can create, explore. place. So a big one for the Texans, Monday night against the Dallas Cowboys. If Collins comes back, remember, he was activated last week. So it seems like there's a really good chance he can come back for this game. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a monster game

against that Cowboys defense. And at this time next week, we could be talking about C.J. Stroud and Nico Collins, one of the best duos in the NFL. By the way, you know what else is better together? Bundling your home and auto and with the personal price plan from State Farm. The personal price plan lets you call the plays so you can choose the right coverage at a price that's right for you. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility

vary by state. All right, Ruiz, let's talk a little bit more about C.J. Stroud. What direction do you want to take that conversation? Yeah, I kind of want to start with the Nico Collins thing, because I do think Nico Collins has a chance of solving some of the issues that he's had. And I think the major issue isn't like something you could point to in his game. You can't be like, oh, he isn't as accurate as he was before. He's not as confident in the pocket as he was. He's not reading the field as well. I think he's just pressing. And I think you saw it. it on Sunday night against the Lions. There's one play that stood out to me in particular. It's second and 11 down near the end zone. I think it was in the first or second quarter. And no one's

open. So he tries to hit his checkdown. He hitches up in the pocket and the checkdown's covered. And instead of just throwing the ball away, he like almost tries to like drop it in a bucket over the defender and to the checkdown guy, which is good. Like if you're throwing it downfield, but when the reward or the payoff is three yards, then you don't want to do that. You don't want to take that risk. But I think it just shows how desperate he was to avoid third and 11 because it's what he's been in all year. Like he's just been in third and 10, third and 11, more so than any other quarterback. And so he's playing in hard mode. And now he doesn't really have that other playmaker that he could just, you know, that he could trust with the ball. Like if a guy, if a play

design doesn't work out and Nico Collins is there and there's a guy next to him, there's a good chance that he's going to win that battle if you give him a chance on a 50-50 ball. And I think Stroud was giving him those chances. And right now he doesn't have that pressure release valve that he can he can throw to when the play design doesn't work. And I think Nico Collins coming back, you'll see him press less. Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. I'm not giving up like, I don't really know what all the discourse has been around.

CJ Stroud. It doesn't feel like he's getting ripped a lot. It feels like people kind of understand the situation. I mean, this offensive line is bad. He's being pressured at the fourth highest rate. They come into the season. and wide receivers seemed like a strength. They trade for Stefan Diggs.

They're getting tanked out back from injury. And you have Nico Collins. It's like, all right, this is, you know, that's why a lot of people, including myself, were bullish on the Texans going into the season. But then you lose Collins, then you lose Diggs for the season. And then the offensive line is way worse than I expected it to be. And you can kind of understand why maybe the season hasn't gone the way.

You were expected to go. I was looking at some numbers on him. And there's reason to still believe. I mean, when he's pressured, he's still 10th in EPA per pass play. You look at, you know, third and fourth downs. He's still performing at a high level. Some of those metrics that you look at and nothing's perfect, but you try to say, this is when the quarterback really kind of has to problem solve and lift everyone else up.

He's still performing at a high level there. So I think what you said makes sense not only like from the numbers, but from the eye test. I remember early in this season, it was like, man, he's got to create way too much here. Like, he can do that. but he, you know, from the pocket, he was so good last year. So, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised get Nico Collins back if this offense goes on a little bit of a run. Yeah, it feels like that playmaking burden has just broken him over the last couple games.

But even when you watch the film, like, it's still like 85% good and 15% bad. It just used to be 5% bad and 95% good. I think that's the one change you've seen. But there are no, like, fatal flaws that have popped up where I'm like, okay, this is a problem. This is an issue we didn't see last year. And he's going to have to figure it out and work all. this in the offseason. It's just more like, let's get him some easier layups in the offense. And as long as he doesn't try to do too much, I think he's going to be fine going forward.

And he's going to look more like that quarterback we saw in September where I thought he looked like a top five quarterback. He looked like an elite quarterback. I was throwing around that word with him. It's obviously falling off of the past couple weeks. But that guy is still in there. We still see flashes of them. Yeah, I agree. The turnover regression, I remember looking at it in the summer. That was always going to happen. I think they were very lucky with turnovers last year. wasn't necessarily something that was going to carry over from one season to the next. All right, who's up next? Who's the next quarterback situation in turmoil? I wanted to talk about Caleb, who is going to have a new offensive coordinator, the Bears fired Shane Waldron this week, and they're

replacing him with Thomas Brown, who takes over as offensive coordinator, an interim offensive coordinator for the second straight year for the number one overall pick. But there's a lot of discourse around Caleb right now. There may not be discourse around Stroud, but I think people are starting to wonder if Caleb Williams is a bust. I'm hearing that word get thrown around. I'm hearing people talk about his issues holding onto the ball, going into playground mode a little too often. But you turn on the tape, and like my reaction to that is, if anything, he needs to do more of the playground stuff. And he needs to take more chances with the ball. Here's a key stat. Since over the last three weeks, zero turnover worthy plays. Zero. And only one big time.

I think those two things are related. He's not pushing the ball downfield as much as he did over the first month. He's not throwing into tight windows nearly enough, in my opinion. I think that's the one thing you can nit or you could criticize about his film is there are NFL open guys, like NFL open and he's not testing those windows nearly enough. It's not happening often. And it's like really the only way the bears get open. They don't get wide ass open for Caleb Williams.

And, you know, he's kind of hesitant to make those throws. And maybe it's playing under a defensive mind. head coach, he's telling him, hey, man, we have a great defense. As long as you don't turn over the ball, we're going to be good. Maybe it's the offense, because this offense just, it's not catered to Caleb Williams. It is very much the Shane Waldron offense. I don't care who my quarterback is. I'm running the same offense.

I ran in Seattle with Gino Smith, which makes no sense to me because those are two different quarterbacks. And I think the sign that, like, a coach or a coordinator gets it with a young quarterback is when they borrow from the college offense they played in. Like, you always hear that with the success stories and the run. rookie year. Like Patrick Mahomes, that was a big thing. Andy Reid, like, went through the Texas Tech film and picked out some plays, and Mahomes had some input on that. And you don't see that. Like, they're not running RPO's, which was a big thing in Lincoln Riley's offense at USC.

And I think it would kind of solve some of the issues that people have had with Caleb Williams, which is like holding onto the ball too long. You put an RPO out there. You have no choice but to get rid of the ball instantly. And I think it would take advantage of that underneath accuracy that has translated on tape that we have seen when he does let go of the ball. So, I mean, I'm not hitting the panic button on him. I know I'm predisposed to liking him just because I was high on him before the draft. And maybe I'm clinging to my pre-draft priors. But like I'm saying when you turn on the film, there aren't plays to be made that he's leaving on the field outside of those like tight window throbes he could test and he could take.

And the mistakes he's making is just reading out to play a little too long, which like every rookie in the NFL has that same flaw. Literally at Jaden Daniels, it takes him the same amount of time to read out of play. Bo Nix, it takes him the same amount of time. Drake May, it takes him the same amount of time. The only difference is those guys have, I think, schematic support, especially with Jada Daniels, who, you know, they're spamming RPO's. They're spamming, hurry up offense. I think Bo Nix is definitely getting schematic support to play his style of quarterbacking.

Drake May, it's a little more in between. I think the Patriots could do more to suit his game. But with Caleb and the Bears, it's just like a total disconnect. The offense doesn't fit the quarterback. The offense isn't good to begin with. and the receiving core and the offensive line. They aren't playing well in tandem with the quarterback. So it's a lot of issues there.

And honestly, when I watch the film, I think Caleb is the least of their problems right now. And they solved their biggest problem with the Waldron firing. I think we disagree. But I don't know the degree to which we disagree. So let's talk it out. I'm on board that schematically, I don't know that anyone would defend this scheme,

this offensive line. Hey, this is the best situation for Caleb Williams. I'm totally on board with all that. I did watch the Caleb Williams film this week, and I was pretty concerned with what I saw in that game. I think some of these sacks that he's taking, and it could be just a rookie quarterback thing. I'm not saying it's not,

but some of them are definitely on him. And I think you're right. I don't know if at some point this year it was like he was hearing the noise about how, hey, you're trying to create too much and play out of structure because he's just standing in there and just like, going through his progressions, they're not there. And then he takes a sack where it's like, go. Like, we watch you in college.

We have seen you do this before. There was none of that this past week. He is, his pressures are turning into sacks at the second highest rate in the NFL behind only Will Levis. He has been horrible under pressure. 29th in EPA per pass play when pressured. So that part of his game is concerning to me. And a little bit surprising, honestly, because it like, again, in college, even in the

preseason, the, clips that where I was like, whoa, look at what he can do here. So that's got to be coach better. We know it's in there somewhere, but that certainly showed up in a big way. The accuracy, I thought in this game was kind of all over the place where he was missing layups in this game where I remember watching him at USC and being like, I love how he can just be point guard and just he's like robotic with his accuracy. That wasn't there in this game.

So those are kind of the three things. The taking sacks, performance under pressure, the accuracy. and then it's like, where is the creation mode? So he looks like a guy who is just like, this is a bad situation in Chicago, and it's getting to him. Again, I'm not saying he's not going to bounce out of it. Like, this is very early in a rookie quarterback's career,

but I did watch that film from this last week and was like, man, this is kind of worse than I thought it was going to be. I do think he missed a couple of throws, but I don't think accuracy had been a problem in his bad games in the past, like outside of the deep accuracy issue that you talked about. Yeah, this might have been one of his worst games of the season.

Yeah, and like we're only two games removed from that Washington game where we had such high hopes for him. He was coming off that, like, Torrid stretch, and then he played well in the fourth quarter of that Washington game. The overall numbers weren't great, but you came away from that game feeling pretty good about your quarterback. So it's really only been two weeks. New England's defense isn't very good, but they can't play mad coverage, and that's what they did. They just spammed man coverage all day long, and Chicago's receivers couldn't get open. I do agree he did miss the throws. And, like, to your point, he is holding onto the ball.

It's like the opposite of the CJ Stroud thing. Like he should be pressing more to make plays. And he's trying to be that quarterback who stays in the pocket. And that's when he's taking the sacks. He's not creating the sacks. He's just holding on to the ball too long because nothing's open downfield. But yeah, I'm with you on your criticisms of him, especially at that point. He needs to take off faster.

And we've seen when he does take off, he's pretty good at it. I feel like he has one of the quickest ejector seats out of the pocket. Even on there was a fourth down pickup that he had in this game where he got it. He just accelerated out of the pocket. and then picked it up. It's in there. We know that Caleb could be that playground guy. I think where people are getting their criticism wrong is they're saying that he's doing

that too much when you turn on the film. He's not doing it at all. He's not doing it at all. This last guy, I mean, it was, yeah, I was like begging for him to double. Like, go, go do something. Why don't just stand there? You're right. He had a couple scrambles in this game, at least two, I think, that he picked up a

first down. Yeah, I don't know if they need to be like, get some of that bozo and you're like, yeah, I don't think it's a bad idea to be like, don't, we don't care about if you turn the football over in this game. Now, that's easy for me to say. Matt Eberflu's like coaching for his job. So I know he's not saying that. But if you're talking about development, I agree with you. He looks very like cautious, unsure of himself. It's not that he, you're right. Like, I think he can go through his progressions and, uh, reason everything like that. But it's just, I don't know if it's trying, it might just be trying to be perfect, but also not just letting like the talent you have let that

shine through. Like maybe it's one of those old school, uh, motivational tactics where you show him clips of himself at USC. Where's this guy? Where's this guy from the preseason? Like, we want that guy to show up this week, uh, that kind of thing. We do have to point out that among the rookies, he probably has the most on his plate in terms of like pre-snap responsibilities and mental burden that the offense puts on him. Like they ask him to operate kind of like a veteran quarterback would where he's changing things before the snap. So, and you wonder, was that a good decision? Like is that one of those things where it could go either way, where down the road we say, hey, he had that bumpy start, but man, it really paid off.

Or it could be like, why did they do all that early on? You know, I don't know what the like general coaching philosophy is, but you're right about that. He's up there. He's directing stuff. He's changing plays. And that's a lot for a rookie quarterback to have to do, especially in this environment. If you had a great, if you had a veteran offensive line and like, you know, a great offensive coordinator, then all right.

Maybe it's like they're taking care of other stuff. But that stuff's not buttoned up. And now you're doing that. I wonder if they have like second thoughts about whether they should have done that or not. Yeah, there are some like quarterbacks who are in like year four or five that don't have the responsibilities that he has. And like it has to, I've asked coaches about this. Like when do you know a guy is ready for that? And like they never have a great answer. It's like you just kind of know. You can just tell. And I think it's a good sign that he was able to do that from from day one.

But like you said, it's it might be there might be a downside and maybe he grows out of this. and he comes out of it, a better quarterback for it. But right now, it's not looking good. Yeah, it's hard to tell. Maybe, yeah, you could see a scenario where five years from now, someone writes a story like, oh, man, and he's like, that rookie year of those reps I got, I was getting my butt kicked. Everyone was killing me after that game against the Patriots.

But you know what? I had this one rep in that game. So, like, you never know. It's hard to know, but there's just no reason to kind of trust that environment right now in Chicago. All right. Who's the next quarterback? What do we got? All right.

We're going to go to Dallas. where Dak Prescott had season ending surgery. Cooper Rush has obviously come in and played. I think they're going to stick with Cooper Rush. They're not going to give Tray Lance. I don't know what the point of a developmental prospect if you're not going to play them, especially when the season seems to be over. But I think this is one of those absence makes the heart grow fonder situations for Dallas.

I think they're going to realize how good of a quarterback they have in Dak, Prescott, and how bad of a offense they have. I know you watched the film because they played the Eagles. First play of the game, Mike McCarthy special. Slant flat to one side, double slant on the other side. Of course. And Cooper Rush went under center for only two dropbacks in this game. I think that's the most telling thing, is that this offense changed its quarterback.

And these are radically different quarterbacks, Dak Prescott and Cooper Rush. And it was the same offense for Dak Prescott that it was for Cooper Rush. And I remember when Cooper Rush played in 2022, the offense changed significantly when Kellen Moore was the offensive coordinator. They went under center. Dak doesn't like to be an under center, turn your back to the defense, play action guy. But when Dak went out, Kellyn Moore spam those plays with Cooper Rush, and that's why they were able to have some success before they ran into a good Philly team that kind of ate his lunch.

But now you're not seeing that. Now that Kellyn Moore's gone, and it's Mike McCarthy running the offense, no changes whatsoever. They're not running that offense for Cooper Rush, even though it would probably be more effective. And I think that's the biggest red flag from this whole situation, is that Mike McCarthy, he has the same answers he had last year whenever things went wrong that he had in Green Bay when things went south with Aaron Rogers. And he just hasn't evolved as a coach. And I think that we're going to see how bad this Cowboys offense truly is over the next two months. And I know Dak Prescott wasn't playing well. We both noticed that his accuracy wasn't what it once was. The type window throws weren't there like they were the year before.

Some of the decision making was a little suspect. But I still think for the most part, he was propping up that office. more than we could even imagine, and we're going to see that now. And he was also pressing. I mean, his turnover worthy plays were way up this year. But yeah, he was like, you look at, I mean, when you were just describing that, they might have the worst offense in the NFL the rest of the season. That's in play. They can't run the ball.

They have one wider. If C.D. Lamb goes down there, they're going to be the worst offense in the NFL. And C.D. Lam's not going to be happy playing for, like, this is going to be miserable. He was unhappy with DAC at times. now with, I mean, that offense had no chance. Like sometimes you watch these games and you're just like, this offense has zero chance. Like it would take a miracle for them to score a touchdown on this possession. That's kind of what it feels like for the Cowboys.

Let me ask you this, Nora and I did a hot seat check-in in the first segment. And I am not fully convinced that they're going to move on from Mike McCarthy at the end of the season. And my argument was that Jerry Jones doesn't prioritize winning. He prioritizes like, he. you know, it's an entertainment product. He wants a coach who he's comfortable with. He wants to have control. He seems like he gets a long fine with Mike McCarthy.

I think he could talk himself into, hey, we won 12 games, three years in a row with this coach and this quarterback. Also, do coaches like the big name coaches, do they want to go in that environment if they have other options? What's your certainty that when Dak Prescott comes back from injury next season, that he's going to have a different head coach. I kind of just assumed that they would make a coaching change, but now that you've laid it out, I'm kind of on your side and I kind of buy it.

I mean, this is a guy that just held on to Jason Garrett for how long. That's what I said, nine seasons. So, no, I can totally see it. And I think the fact that we don't know for sure that they're going to move on, like, not like that the news is already broken and like, you know, they made the decision already. But the fact that the momentum isn't already there, I feel like is a sign of Jerry Jones It's just, I don't think he's the wheeler, dealer, business guy. He's not going to take no for an answer that guy he used to be,

the guy that we used to consider him in the 90s. And I think it's been a while since he's been that guy. And it kind of started at the beginning of the end of the Jason Garrett coaching tenure. Yeah, they don't do anything. Like their personnel guy, Will McLeigh has made some amazing picks. Dak Prescott, Micah Parsons. I mean, we can, Tyler Smith, with CD-Land, we could go on and on. if they had like below average drafting, I mean, who knows what this era would look like if they didn't

luck into Dak Prescott in the fourth round one? Who was it? They wanted the other guy. I can't remember. Do you remember this? Was it Paxton Lynch? That sounds, yes, I think it was, right? Yeah, they wanted that guy. And they luck into Dak Prescott and they didn't do anything with it. So I will say this. Maybe the first, worst first round pick quarterback in the last two decades, three decades. I think he got like six starts. And they were like, no, we've seen enough. Barely played.

Yeah, barely playing. I will say this because I have ripped the Cowboys pretty much nonstop since last off season to this one. As I was preparing for this segment, there is a path where this isn't the worst thing in the world for them, you know, long term. So, DAC got injured. They're going to stink the rest of the way. They're going to get a high draft pick. And they badly need, like, if they get a wide receiver in the first round who can play right away, and now you have that guy and CD Lamb, you have Dak Prescott coming back from injury, you're starting.

two rookies on the offensive line this season. So assuming those guys get better next year, you still have two very good guards. And now if you're bringing a coach, like a competent offensive coach, that should be a team that could bounce back pretty quickly next season. So that's something to keep in mind if you're a Cowboys fan.

I don't know that it's going to turn out that way, but there's a chance that you're right back in this day after one down year. Yeah, you had the quarterback. And that's like the hardest thing to find. I don't know if he's one of these elite quarterbacks that can win you a Super Bowl on his own, but he could win you a Super Bowl as long as you put the right pieces around him and get the right coaching staff. So at least you have that going for you.

There are a lot of teams that wish they had that. Yeah. And that's, I mean, we have to throw this season kind of out of the window because like you said, I think any metric you look at their passing game was not good this season. Historically, when Dak Prescott has been healthy, their offense and their passing offense has been very good. And that's been with multiple coordinators. Now, he is entering his age 32 season. This is kind of the third year in five seasons where he's had some kind of injuries.

So those things matter as well. But 32 is not like 37 or 38. So Cowboys will be in the news once again here. All right. Last one we're finishing on. Trevor Lawrence, we did talk about Doug Peterson in the hot seat check-in. And I think that's about as over as over gets. It's just a matter of what week it's going to happen or whether they wait till the end of the season.

But it sounds like he's probably going to be out for the rest of the season, right? Trevor Lawrence? Yeah, that's what it sounds like. And I think this is another absence makes the heart grow fonder. The Jags just had one of their worst performances, offensive performances in the history of the franchise. And this is a franchise with a healthy track record of bad offenses. So that will, that ought to tell you something. And I also, I was surprised when I looked up the numbers, but Trevor also hasn't really played that badly compared to like how we talk about him, he's 10th in passing grade in PFF. He's 9th in QBR. I have him 12th in my quarterback rankings that I'm known as like a Trevor Apologist and these other sources have

them actually playing better than I do this year. And I think he's another guy where when you get dropped into this style of offense, you just see the worst of these guys. And I think we tend to overindex those weaknesses. And we're like, oh, Trevor, he has accuracy issues. Oh, he has turnover issues, decision-making issues. But when you, like, step back and compare him to the other quarterbacks and you put his film next to theirs, you don't see accuracy issues on Trevor's take, really.

Like, you see him miss some throws every once in a while. And then you see him throw some interceptions every once in a while. But he protects the ball for the most part, and he doesn't take sacks for the most part. He gets rid of the ball on time. So a lot of the criticisms of him, I think, are being reverse engineered. We're like, oh, the offense is bad.

The team is performing poorly. So obviously Trevor's not playing well. What's the worst part of his game? And then we decide that that's the reason why the offense isn't working as well as it should be. When really, when you just look at how the team is built, a bad offensive line, a scheme that isn't very complex, and a receiving cord that is prone to mistakes. Like we have young receivers. We have receivers like Christian Kirk, who hasn't been great at the catch point. Brian Thomas is a rookie.

Doesn't always run his routes at the right depth, which is expected because he's a rookie. Evan Ingram is one of the least reliable pair of hands for. someone I would call a decent to good tight end. And they've had a bunch of injuries in the receiving court. And the fact that he still managed to put up these numbers and still be a fringe top 10 quarterback by the numbers, objectively speaking, I think is a testament to his skill set. And I think it's a testament to the fact that we kind of overrate his weaknesses, quote unquote. Yeah, we probably disagree a little bit on Lawrence. I'm with you.

I don't think he was as there was a time in this season when he was being talked about like one of the worst quarterbacks in the N. NFL and you just look at, I think they kind of bounced back when no one was paying that much attention. The games were nationally televised. But yeah, he's like slightly below average in a lot, you know, success rate EPA per pass plays. He's right around 20th. And they were hitting on a lot of explosive plays. It wasn't pretty. I probably have more issues with his accuracy than you do. I think he misses too many throws. I'm not giving up on him. I'm not like, I'm probably not as confident as you are that if, hey, if you get a better supporting cast and better coaching, that it's going to happen. I think the floor is probably higher than people think. Like,

I don't think he, you know, he's, he's not going to be one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL. I think there's a level of mediocrity that you're going to get with him. And we've seen that over the last, you know, a couple seasons here that the offenses haven't been great, but they've been okay. And then we saw that one season in 2022 where his numbers were like off the charts. First year with Doug Peterson. It was not like the best supporting cast. And he was like sixth in EPA per pass by 10th in success rate. So I do like that. We've seen it once at least in four years. So he's young. He's 25. I've reset my expectations for him. Like, I don't think he's going to be one of the five best quarterbacks in the NFL over like a prolonged period of time. I think he's going to be

mediocre to slightly above average most years. But I do believe that in the right spot, he can have those seasons where we're like, oh, it's all coming together where I can hear you. I can hear you. saying that year like he hasn't changed the pieces of rat like i do think that type of year is in the cards with him so i want to see what it looks like how they change uh how they change things up once he comes back from this injury it's been a very weird career like as i was prepping for this i was looking back like i don't know how do i feel about him there's been times i've ripped him there's been times i've defended him he had urban mire uh what is it you know he's had he's had injuries now two years in a row so to me uh i understand why people get mad and they're like

everybody's apologizing for him because I think there is some clinging to the prospect we all, you know, everybody thought he was going to be that quarterback. I don't believe that that guy is going to happen, but I don't think you're crazy if you do think that's going to happen given how young he is. I don't get the prospect thing. I understand that everyone was like, everyone's worked up

about the fact that we call them a generational prospect and right now he's maybe the 11th or 12th best quarterback in the NFL. But that can happen with a generation. We call them generational prospects. We don't call them generational players. And I think the fact that this passing game hasn't been a total disaster with all of the problems.

At one point, they were down to like their fourth string wide receiver. We know how bad the offensive line is. We think the play calling is bad. It's always hard to separate, you know, offensive performance from the play calling. The play calling doesn't seem to be too good. And the issues that we've had with the play calling and with the offense were some of the issues that we saw at the end of Doug Peterson's tenure in Philadelphia. I remember a lot of breakdowns where people were like, this throw looks inaccurate, but really the wide receiver ran the

route at the wrong depth or broke the wrong way. That's what's happening when you watch. When you watch his misses, they are timing routes where both players need to be on the same page, the receiver and the quarterback. That's how the offense is based. It's a West Coast timing based offense in the passing game. And when you have unreliable receivers and receivers that are changing every week, you're going to look inaccurate at times. It's not always, your fault. And I do think that exacerbates some of his issues that he has. But I mean, 10th and passing grade from PFF and 9th and QBR with this supporting cast, I think, is it, he is elevating the offense in some way. And like, that's what you want to see out of a

quarterback. Maybe he's not going to elevate the offense to being a top five passing game, but the fact that he's still elevating the offense and not actively making it worse like some other quarterbacks do that play in bad offenses, I think that's the difference. And that's why it's easy for me to hold on to my priors and cling to my priors and have faith that he's to turn it around. I agree that I don't think he's ever going to be a top five quarterback. But the reason why I think that is because the top five of the NFL is too freaking good for him to break into it. Yeah, no, that's true as well. I also think when he's had some really bad games on like national TV or when he does miss, it looks really bad. I mean, I'm not in a part,

like I don't think he is like he played at a top 10, top 12 level this year. So reasonable people can disagree on that. I think he's probably more in that like, I don't know, 15 to 12. I don't know even how much of a difference that is. Like after the top, whatever, five or six, it's really hard. Like, you go from seven to 20 or whatever. Two throws make the difference between. Yeah, and they had some bad luck. I mean, they were, what, one and six and one score games?

Like, there's a, again, it's been a very weird career so far for Trevor Lawrence. We'll see who they bring in there and what that looks like next season. All right, that's Stephen Ruiz. You can check out his QB rankings on the ringer.com. every week he'll be back with me and Deonté Lee later this week. We got some awesome games to break down as we look ahead to week 11. That's going to be a lot of fun as well. So thank you to Nora Preciati.

Thank you to Stephen Ruiz, Troy Farkas for producing additional production supervision by Connor and Arjuna, Ram Gopal. I'm Sheila Kapal. We'll be back later this week on the ringer NFL show.