The Ringer NFL Show - Solving the Mystery Around the Patriots Offense

Episode Date: July 29, 2022

Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz team up to try to figure out some of the mystery around what the Patriots offense is going to look like this season. They discuss who they think is going to call plays and what that could look like, expectations for Mac Jones in Year 2, and more. Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's the NFL preseason. Check out the Ringer Fantasy Football Show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Also, if you need fantasy rankings, we've got our rankings and sleepers at Fantasyfuttle. So come listen to Danny Highfitts Craig Horlebeck and me, Danny Kelly, on the Ringer fantasy football show. And welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Pinsiotti and I'm here with Stephen Ruiz. Stephen, how are you doing this morning?

I'm doing good. I'm doing good. I'm not out at camps yet. So I can't say that I'm in it yet. But you have been to it. camp. How's it feeling? I've been to two camps. I am back home this morning after stops in Jacksonville and Tampa. Uh, so a little Florida swing. Very hot. Jacksonville, great vibes. Uh, I love to hear it. The, the post urban Meyer era is a lot sunnier, I think. Tampa became a little

bit of a bummer because Ryan Jensen got injured at the practice that I attended. And I was actually scheduled to talk to him. And then he got hurt like two plays before. practice ended. So that was sort of a bummer all around, much more so for him than for me. But that's the update. Yeah, I'm blaming the injury on you now. Yeah, I kind of think it felt really, it felt really targeted. But I, I love Ryan Jensen. And I wish that hadn't happened. So I don't appreciate that, Stephen, but I can't deny the weird correlation. But as you said, training camps are getting into full swing. You will be out there soon. A lot of us have been making the rounds.

And that means that reporters everywhere, ourselves certainly included, are trying our hardest to figure out what all these teams are going to look like in 2022. And in New England, which is who, what, the team that we're going to talk about today, that is particularly true of the offense where the departure of Josh McDaniels, a bunch of personnel moves and the apparently newly swole Mack Jones entering year two all have the potential to bring a bunch of change. changes. But unfortunately, one thing that has not changed is that when it comes to what this all means or actually who will even call the plays, since there is no offensive coordinator currently with the Patriots, Bill Belichick is not inclined to tell us very much. Yeah, we're not really big on titles and all that. So I think everybody, you know, it's important that we all work together and create a good final product. And so that's what we're going to try to do. That's what we've always done.

So Bill is not helping. So Stephen, I'm hoping you will help me solve the mystery of the Patriots offense today. Do you think we can do that ourselves? Yeah, why not? Why not? We have walkie-talkie evidence. That's kind of what I've been following is the walkie-talkie tweets. And it seems like between Joe Judge and Matt Patricia, that that's kind of been the only evidence we have of anybody calling play so far.

Yeah. So why don't we start there? I think we're going to talk about sort of the personnel changes, the coordinator. or lack thereof change and what's new with Mac Jones. But let's start with the coordinator situation where Matt Patricia has been walking around with a walkie-talkie during the first couple of days of practice. His title is senior football advisor slash offensive line. There is, of course, also Joe Judge, whose title is offensive assistant.

this is another thing that Bill Belichick is saying doesn't matter and we're far away away from calling any plays and stop asking. What do you make of all this, Stephen? I've even read that Patricia has the walkie-talkie during 11 on 11s and judges had it during 7 on 7. So it's kind of like a first team, second team reps type of deal, which is just hilarious to me. And I hope like we get them switching off during the preseason games.

I know they'll never say that. Bill will never be like oh yeah Joe had it in the second half Matt was in the first half but it's almost like their very own quarterback competition like this is the most intriguing positional battle across the league in my opinion it looks like Patricia's going to win it but like I'm more vexed at like who's going to call plays compared to like who's going to start in Carolina or even Seattle so this is the battle for me this is the battle I'm watching and I don't know how do we know none of these guys have ever called offense in their careers What are we supposed to make of this?

Like, I think the only way we could kind of read the tea leaves around the Patriots offense is by looking at the personnel changes. And they have been significant. I think, I think the, is it Jakob Johnson or Jacob Johnson? Jacob. Jacob. Jacob. He goes with the, that's better.

Stuttgart, Germany's finest. Jakob Johnson, fullback. I feel like him dropping that little, that little nugget that the Patriots weren't going to have a fullback this year is like the most important thing, the most important revelation of the Patriots off season. so far. Yeah. So, so Jakub Johnson said that he was not offered a contract

there because they're essentially eliminating the position. They're not going to have a fullback. New England has been one of the teams that's held out and been committed to the fullback other than like San Francisco for a long time now. So when you look Stephen at that, maybe

in combination with some of the moves like adding Devante Parker, do you think that there's real change afoot for this offense? and what might that look like? I think there has to be because there isn't a fullback on the roster and maybe like you put a tight end body at those positions. Johnny Smith certainly can play in the backfield,

but that was such a big part of the Patriots offense, as you said. And I think if there is no fullback, I think it's a change for the better. And I think it's a change that makes sense for Mack Jones. Mac Jones is like that point guard type quarterback, the distributor. He's going to get the ball out quickly. He's going to get the ball in his playmaker's hands. And I think that's easier to do from more special.

spread out formations when there isn't extra bodies and extra beef in the backfield. And if you look at his splits last year, he was way better in the gun. He was way better when they were, when they called those quick passes compared to the, the more long developing pass plays, the ones that you'll see from under center. So it makes sense. It's, it's Bill Belichick doing what Bill Belichick does, playing to the strengths of his players, not asking them to do something that we don't know if they can do it or not. And I think last year was a little, it was a little iffy because they still had Cam Newton

on the roster. They had given them money in the offseason. They didn't know they were going to draft Mac Jones or be able to draft Mac Jones before they made that that signing. So we kind of saw an offense that was built for both of those quarterbacks. Like we saw like a run heavy offense built for a run heavy quarterback like Cam Newton. And they kind of had to rejigger the offense around Mac Jones on the fly. I think this year you're really starting to see what the vision is for Mac Jones's career. And it's kind of like the change the Patriots made back in 2007 when they went to that more spread out offense when they got West Welker.

And that helped Brady take off. Maybe it will have the same effect for Mac Jones in year two. So if they do indeed spread it out a little bit more, let Mac Jones be that point guard. How do you think this group of receivers will fare, particularly as they've added Parker, you know, they still have Jacoby Myers, Kendrick Bourne. What do you think the role the roles look like if that is the direction they move in? I think Parker's the key. Parker has to like emerge as that number one guy that you can.

kind of isolate and put on his own and then you put the other three receivers to the other side of the formation and he can dictate coverages. He has to be that same Devante Parker that we saw. I think it was in 2019 when he had a lot of success against the Patriots against Stefan Gilmore. If he can if he can dominate one-on-one matchups and that forces teams to put a safety over the top of him, that's going to open things up for Kendrick Bourne, who I really like in Jacoby Myers, two guys that I think they aren't playmakers like explosive playmakers, but they get open. They're reliable and they create separation, which is

pivotal for a quarterback like Mac Jones. He doesn't have the best arm, but he's accurate. He's going to put the ball where it needs to be. Devante Parker, I think he has the ability to force defenses to back off. And that was a problem towards the end of the season. Defense is just for constricting space.

And I think he can allow them to or he can force them to back off. And that will open up so much more for this offense. So some of that, a little bit of that, I think had to do, with Mack Jones's maybe not quite arm strength per se, but the,

the vim and vigor of his particular downfield passing. And I'm just going to read you a little Belichick quote from the other day. I believe it was Tuesday. Asked about what he was expecting for Jones in year two. He said, I think there's a dramatic improvement.

And then I'm going to skip a few lines. He said, he's made tremendous strides. he did a great job last year, but he's starting it from a much, much, much, much, than where he started last year. His off-season work has been significant. I think everyone recognizes how well he prepares and how much further along he is than he was a year ago.

Now, that's like more praise than Bill Belichick offered Tom Brady in 20 years. Like, what do you make of that? And do you think that that has anything to do with Mac apparently showing up with a little bit more muscle tone and definition this summer. I think that definitely has to do with it. I think Bill Belichick knows the value of strong football players. Strong football players tend to beat up on weak football players. So the fact that he's adding weight is good.

But I think it, I think the confidence they have in Mac Jones. It's a really good insight right there. Thank you. I know ball. I know ball. Big guys are better than small guys at football. Groundbreaking research by me. But maybe this means that they have more confidence in him.

and sort of like the operational aspects of running the offense, like calling the plays, changing the plays before the snap. And I really hope that's the case because there are, while this offense isn't like blessed with obvious playmaking, it does, they do have like a bunch of interesting pieces that kind of like fit well together. Like they have guys in clearly defined roles. And I think what that helps you do is kind of run a faster offense. And that was like the big thing when Tom Brady was here, right? It was like high-paced offense. They got to the line quickly so Tom Brady could make changes. He could read the defense and react accordingly. Last year, that wasn't the case. They were the 27th slowest offense, I guess, fastest offense in the league.

They were at the bottom of the league. And I think the fact that Mack Jones has taken command of this offense and by all accounts, he's like really taken ownership over it means the Patriots can get back to that Tom Brady style of offense, where they're going quickly. They're changing formations. They're kind of playing with formations. Maybe you have Johnny Smith line up at running back. one formation and then the next one he's a tight end. Maybe you have Thai Montgomery doing that. I think if it allows the Patriots to play faster, it's going to mean a lot. Because I know like the big thing with Mack is his arm strength and is his arm going to get

stronger. Is he going to get faster? Is he going to be able to make more plays? But I really think this offense can take a leap if they can just go faster. And it sounds like they'll be able to do that. Do you think, and I don't mean to be harping on like yoked Mac, but do you think that the pace and the arm strength thing are at all related because I do think there were times, you know, you could see it with Jacoby Myers or Agilor a little bit.

Like there were times when they were slowing a little bit on downfield routes because he wasn't necessarily going to be like zipping it into them. Is that something that an offseason of effective conditioning can make a difference toward? Like I think there are so many things with arm strength that we talk about that are a little bit overrated or just like not particularly meaningful. But do you think there's, is there a kernel of meaning? Yeah, I do. I think like his core strength is very important.

Being able to get throws off when there's not a lot of space around him. That was like when you saw the accuracy issues. I don't, I think he was one of the more accurate quarterbacks in league. But when you did see accuracy issues, it's when space and time was constricted and you had to get a throw off quickly. It's not just about like your arm, like your isolated arm strength. It's about your whole body and getting your core into the throw. And I think if he can become a more rotational thrower like Tom Brady did after working with Tom House,

then I think you could see like him add a few miles per hour to his fastball. And that's going to go a long way too. I really think there are small improvements Mac Jones can make to make the leap to the next tier. And if he makes them, I wouldn't be surprised if he's a top, like firmly entrenched as like a top 15 to 10, top 10 quarterback from here on out. do you have like a galaxy brain take on what it means that Bill is saying such nice things? Because it's actually not just Mac. They extended Godshaw the other day and he was like, he's one of the best.

Like he was really, really nice in those answers too. Like what's going on? What's going on with this guy? Grandpa Belichick. I feel like he's evolved. It's kind of like Tom Coughlin kind of softened as he went along. and I think Bill Belichick realizes he has a different team, a new generation of players. He doesn't have, like, he could afford to be mean to Tom Brady because he's Tom Brady.

I don't know if you can afford to break down the psyche of a young quarterback right now. Like even Tom Brady back then, he was a sixth round pick. Like, who cares if you break him? If you break Matt Jones, like, that's a problem. They don't just come along. So I don't know. Maybe he just doesn't care. He doesn't care like he didn't care about hurting feelings back then.

But now I think he does. It's a more sensitive Bill Belichick. Or, like, I do think that he might know that he kind of just can't. Like, I do think that there is something to the idea of him adjusting to a new generation of athletes. And even, like, you look at them maybe just saying, okay, let's play ball with the rest of the modern NFL and see if we can run a good offense by spreading it out a little bit more and letting back go to work and try to play point guard. You even see it like? they're admitting that they have to have smaller, more athletic linebackers. Bill also might be admitting that he has to be nice to the players.

And then maybe he just gets all of the like, I'm going to mess with your psyche out in the walkie-talkie hijinks. Like maybe that's just his outlet this summer for trying to mess with. Yeah, it's just Joe Judge and Matt Patricia just caught up in his web. That might be it. And it might be like him being more involved with the offense. Like offensive coaches are like a different breed than defensive coaches. I feel like they're a little more understanding.

They tend to be a little younger and be able to relate with players more. So maybe this is just his offensive phase, like that he's trying to embrace. He's going to show up on the sideline with like a visor and like frosted tips next season. Oh my God. He's so terrifying. Also, just to clarify, I'm making jokes. I don't think that's what's, I actually think that if anything, Bill is. has a lot of affection and respect for Joe Judge and Matt Patricia and is offering one, if not both of them,

sort of an opportunity to do a little bit of career revamping on the side of the ball that tends to lead to more coaching interviews down the line. I know there are a lot of questions internally about why someone like Nick Cayley, who would actually fit more of that like young offensive coordinator kind of profile does not seem to be getting the nod for this. But he doesn't have the walkie-talkie. So I don't know what else to tell you. Yeah. It's all in the truth is in the walkie-talkie.

I think I don't mean to rag on Matt Patricia too much. But I just remember covering a training camp practice in Detroit. trait when they had joint practices. And he spent the entire day just driving around in this golf cart. And he seemed so happy to be in this big jacked up golf cart. Like the wheels were like pumped up to the high heavens. I just have to imagine that there is a little bit too much power in that walkie talkie right now.

With a big walkie talkie comes great responsibility. And I'm just not sure that the senior football advisor to the head coach is, is really ready for it. Do you think he says over at the end of all of his, his comments on the walkie-talkie? Like frankly, yes, Stephen. I actually really do. Do you think,

like, can we, so Matt Patricia made his career on the defensive side of the ball. Joe Judge, and two, clarify, one, just from what it's looked like

at those training camp practices there, Patricia seems to be well in the lead for play caller, de facto offensive coordinator, whatever that's going to be. There's also been reporting, from people like Mike Reese at ESPN, who's covered the team for forever,

who has reported that it's going to be Patricia. It's almost definitely going to be Patricia. So I don't want to paint this as more of a competition that it actually seems to be. But I will open this question up to either Patricia or Joe Judge. Do you have any insight into what an offense designed, coordinated, called by either one of those guys would be likely to look like? Well, Matt Jones says the offense is the same.

Like the Patriots offense is always going to be the Patriots offense. And I think he means like more conceptually and philosophically. The formations do change. So I think the plays are going to stay the same as the same that we've seen throughout the Josh McDaniels era. I have like no way of like even conjecture. I don't know. I really don't know.

Based on Matt Patricia's defensive play calling, maybe they're going to put more receivers out on the field. Like that's already a given because there's no full back. but he liked to play a lot of dime. He liked to play a lot of nickel. He like to play a lot of man coverage. I don't know. Like that's the only thing I could come up with.

That's the only thing I could tell you. I would assume that it's going to be a more pass heavy offense compared to last year. I do think they're ready to give Mack Jones that leeway. And they're going to get back to like the early down play calling that we saw at the end of the Tom Brady era. That's the old. That's the one thing I'm confident about saying. Everything else, who knows? I think that's right.

I think, you know, they still have a strong. stable of running backs, a pretty good offensive line. So I think, you know, we're not going to see this team and this offense completely abandoned running the ball. I think they will still do that. But I do agree that I think more passing and probably a little bit more downfield passing are the two things that we can look at and say, okay, there's probably more of that incoming for this offense in 2022 because of the personnel. and probably because of Mac Jones's development. From the coordinator or non-coordinator perspective, that's sort of a mystery.

But I agree with you that you can probably take those couple of things to the bank. Which leads me to the question of, I mean, do you think it will work, Stephen? What are your expectations for the Patriots offense this season? I do think it will work. I don't think they're going to be as successful as their overall. production, like the picture their overall production pain. I think they finished like 10th in offensive DVOA, but they were really inconsistent. Like they had these big games against the Titans and the Browns and the Falcons or Texans.

I forget which the other one was. But then they also had these loals, these like just ugly, ugly games. And I think that was because they had to, with the way their offense was set up, they had to get in a certain game script. They had to be able to continue to run the ball. They had to continue to be able to have that full back on the field. and you can't really do that if you fall behind early. I think it will be more consistent this year

because I do think Mack Jones is better at the things that I'm expecting them to ask him to do, the spread out stuff, the maybe more RPO. They barely ran to any last year, and that was like his big thing at Alabama. I do wonder if we're going to see more mistakes out of Mac Jones, though, because he was protected last year with the play calling.

They did run the ball a lot on early downs. They did get into those third and short situations and kind of protect him from third and long, which is when you see the mistakes from the younger quarterbacks. But I think even if his efficiency numbers, take a step back and maybe throws a few more interceptions, takes a few more sacks, I think it will be a positive step in his overall development.

And I really think that's what matters. And I kind of think that's why, this is my Galaxy Brain take on the Joe judge, Matt Patricia thing. I think Belichick wants Mack Jones to spend a year hearing from coaches with the perspective of a defensive play caller, like Matt Patricia in particular. Because that was so big for Brady's development. Like Bill Belichick spent a lot of time with him,

kind of developing his ability to understand what the defense was throwing at him. And I think he wants Mack to get that same education. And if it takes one year of maybe disjoint it football, because you don't have an experience, offensive play caller in his headset, then so be it. I think Mac will be better for this experience this year. Wow.

That's interesting. I'm surprised you feel that optimistically about it because I sort of agree with you that I bet there's a kernel of that they're excited about for him. I'm just frankly skeptical that it's a good idea. In part because there is a limit to how much this could have been premeditated just because you're relying on, you know, the coming together of, okay, this is the year that Josh decides to take a head coaching job

and winds up somewhere else. And then there's two guys that get fired and in certain cases are still earning a paycheck from other organizations. And then they can come in and there are coaches that Bill is really close with. It all can't quite have been orchestrated. Like it's too sort of circumstantial for this to have been a clear plan. And I just worry about, you know, the best asset the team has in that kind of. situation where you look at like basically every other successful football team. They have an offensive coach coaching the offense.

And it's just a little bit odd to me, even though like if I said that to Bill, it would be immediately like both of them have been a part of the offense. Joe judge coach receivers. It's all holistic. It's better to see it from from both sides. I just, I don't know, man. It just seems weird. The walkie talkie thing just seems weird.

It's not going to work in 2000. Like in 2022, no, it's, I don't think we're going to look back on and go, that was a success. But I think it will have more long-term benefits that won't be readily apparent this year. But no, for 2022, I think they might be the worst offense in the, in the division, depending on with Zach Wilson and the steps he takes. But when Mac Jones in 2050 goes into the Hall of Fame, he'll be citing the year he spent with Matt Patricia, letting him see football through the defense's eyes that just like really sparked his development. He'll write a book. It'll be my year with Matt. I guess we will have to wait and see. This has been the Ringer NFL show. Thank you for listening.

Thank you to Stephen for joining me on this episode. We'll be back on the feed Monday with more from training camps and previewing the upcoming season. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely for production on this episode with additional production supervision by Connor and Evans.