The Ringer NFL Show - Spinning the QB Roulette Wheel With Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, and More

Episode Date: March 14, 2025

Sheil, Steven, and Diante get together in the midst of the NFL free agency frenzy to talk about all of the big QB moves around the league. They begin their conversation by analyzing Aaron Rodgers’s viability as a starter and debating which team could still benefit from his services. Then, they shift their focus to Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins, scanning the league for possible fits for their aging skill sets (30:37). They end the pod by taking a close look at Daniel Jones and Mac Jones’s new deals and discussing their pathways to success next season (47:25). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia, Steven Ruiz, and Diante Lee Producer: Chris Sutton Social: Kiera Givens Production Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's happening? It's Todd McShay, host of the McShay show at the Ringer and Spotify. Listen, I love all aspects of football from the college to the professional game, but the draft is my grind. Listen and watch the McShay show for all of my draft analysis. And if you want more, subscribe to my newsletter, the McShay report, where you can find my mock drafts and big boards and all the buzz and intel I'm hearing from NFL decision makers.

Make sure to like, follow, subscribe to the McShay show on the ringer, Spotify, and wherever you watch or listen to podcasts. And subscribe to the McShay report today for a special introductory offer. Google the McShay report or find it on the ringer.com. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. Shield Capadia here with Stephen Ruiz and Deonté Lee. We are back and we are waiting. The football world waits to find out when will Aaron Rogers get off the beach

and decide what team he's going to play on. Ruiz. You think Rogers is loving this, and he might extend the new cycle a little bit longer, huh? Yeah, he might extend this into June. I don't know. I feel like he loves all the attention. And I do think it's a tough choice for him, because there are two situations where you're going to an established program in Pittsburgh where you're like, I don't know if I'm going to have the freedom I had in past stops. And then you have the giants where you can probably just run the show because Joe Shane doesn't want any attention at all these days. So if I was him, I would be walking on the beach too with a blanket around me pondering the rest of my football career. There you go. Deonti, you might not be too far from you.

I don't know what beach he was on. He's so, yeah, I think he's somewhere in Southern California. Go find him in Southern California. Yeah. Somewhere in Southern California. I was just laughing at the photo because he looks exactly like I would expect an extra on White Lotus to look like walking a beach after just the worst week of your life, pondering all of your decisions that lead you up to this point. And I love the old iPhone, old iPhone headphones. Like nobody even, they don't even manufacture these anymore. Like $18 to get. You probably, you probably get better quality stuff buying at off market. So yeah, that was just a really funny thing to see this morning. There you go. White Lotus, season four, 41 year old quarterback deciding is he going to play in

Pittsburgh, New York, or what's the other place I'm missing? Minnesota, Minnesota, maybe. All right, we're going to talk a little bit about quarterback roulette. And we are, if you're listening to this, go, who cares? We're going to get into that conversation, too. Does it matter where these guys sign? But right now, that is the story in the NFL because a lot of the big free agents have already signed. And it feels like you have, you know, three or four teams waiting for those quarterback dominoes to fall. So we're going to talk about where we are right now with the teams that still need a quarterback.

Because, of course, this affects the draft as well when we look at the quarterbacks that could go early. in the first round in the draft. And we're going to look at the teams, the quarterback situations, all those things, what the Falcons are doing with Kirk Cousins. Is he going to become available? When is he going to become available? So we'll get into all of that. And then we actually did have some quarterback moves.

Daniel Jones, Lance in Indianapolis, Mac Jones, Lance in San Francisco, where I know when I saw that news, all I thought about is when are we getting the Ruiz segment on what this means for the 49ers. So if you're waiting for that, don't worry, we're going to get to that. And by the way, if you're a team that has Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson and you like to just get the league-wide, I mean, just take a second to appreciate that life is good for you right now with some of these conversations we're about to have with the quarterback have not.

So guys, the teams I have written down that still need a quarterback, this one's under the radar. The Tennessee Titans, I kind of just forgot about. but it's either Will Levis or draft. And they obviously have the number one pick. Would they just take Cam Ward number one? That's a possibility. The New York Giants tried to get Matthew Stafford struck out. I guess they're hoping for Aaron Rogers.

If that doesn't happen, I don't know what their plan C is. The Pittsburgh Steelers, there's a report from the Pittsburgh Post Gazette that they have made an offer to Aaron Rogers, but I guess have not heard back. And they signed Mason Rudolph to a two-year, $8 million deal. You have the Cleveland Browns who traded for Kenny Pickett, I guess to maybe set some kind of floor there for, hey, at least we have a guy who has started games in the NFL before. They've got the number two overall pick. They're obviously potentially in the mix here for a guy like Russell Wilson or maybe even Kirk Cousins. And then maybe the most interesting team that a lot of rumors out there reports that the Vikings are a sleeper that could potentially jump in here for Aaron Rogers.

So let's start with the man on the beach. Aaron Rogers. Ruiz, we can start with you. You mentioned he has different options. What do you think he's looking at? What do you think about his fits with these different teams? If you feel like making a prediction on where he lands, go ahead and do that as well. I mean, I think it comes down to the offense he's getting placed into. At least that's what it is for me when I think about it. And I just think about his fit in an Arthur Smith offense. And while Pittsburgh is probably the most attractive option in terms of infrastructure, being able to win because they win nine games seemingly every year. But his fit in that offense just doesn't make a lot of sense to me because this is

an offense that likes to put heavy bodies on the field, likes to load the box up and likes to run the football. And Aaron Rogers is very particular in how he likes to play quarterback. He likes to be in the gun. He likes to spread things out. He likes to kind of be the run game orchestrator. Like he likes to, if the look's not there in the box, he changes the play to a like a quick game. a quick pass play. And that's the one thing that he's still very good at when you watch his tape.

He's still very good in that quick passing game in that role. But that's a role that is substituted for in this offense by the run game. You don't really have those opportunities to run

that style of pass play. So if I'm, I think that's where the tension is with him because I think he knows the Steelers give him a better chance of kind of reclaiming this,

his narrative, I guess over the last couple years where he's turned into this quarterback who is sort of a pariah. He's like a guy you don't really want in your locker room because you have to deal with all this stuff outside of the lines.

But going to New York, we've seen quarterbacks just flail in that environment. And it doesn't look any better on paper than it did last year or the last couple of years with Daniel Jones. And I just don't see how that ends up working out in the long run where he's getting what he wants, which is to look like a good NFL quarterback again. Yeah, Deonti, the Giants to me, I wouldn't even like that just feels like a horrible situation from both sides, but specifically for trying to get an Aaron Rogers head, unless they're just offering, you know, the financials are just so much better.

And like moving sucks. We've said that before. You know, maybe he just doesn't want to move. And that's a factor. Or like Ruiz said, maybe he just wants to go somewhere where he gets to run the show. Because as Ruiz was describing the Arthur Smith offense, I'm thinking, well, he did in Green Bay. You know, he was. They were play action.

And he was doing that. And he was winning MVP. and they had an unbelievable winning percentage. But obviously, he still had a preference because that's not how he wanted to play when he went to his next team with the jet. So maybe we just do it team by team, the Giants, Deonti, as it, do you see anyway?

Is there a way to sell me on? No, no, this might be a good idea for either side. I think to me, the Giants, the Giants strike me is best schematic fit, worst environment. Yeah, for me, for Rogers. Like, Daible will get you in the spread looks that you would like to be in. They have Slayton.

They have neighbors. So you've got enough speed on the outside where he can kind of pepper the ball around in terms of quick game, assuming his health and assuming that they're able to protect him, right? So I would, I don't hate it. If you're Aaron Rogers and you're sitting, you're laying out all your options, I can understand him looking at the Giants and saying, A, don't have to move, right, assuming that that's a priority for him. B, I'm going to go to a coach that probably doesn't have enough sway to tell me no.

If there's something that I want, I think that that also kind of weighs in as well. Like he can kind of move his weight around a bit there because everybody would be kind of on their hot seat. It will be kind of a lame duck year for all parties involved. So I think that he will be able to appeal to ownership or to Joe Shane as general manager and say, hey, I want this guy. I want the offense to look this way. I want the organization to move in Aaron Rogers's direction. So I could see that.

I just don't imagine how that's not just miserable for all parties. Five, six weeks into the season. I think that we all kind of know exactly what that would look like. because we got two years of sample size in New York already to kind of base that off of. So that will be the Giants for me. I think for all the same reason that Stephen kind of ruled out the Steelers, I look at them the same as well. Like that to me is best supporting cast, worst system.

And not worse system because Aaron Rogers is incapable of operating within it. Like I think maybe the best thing for Aaron Rogers is to go be Ryan Tannahill for a year. Go get under center. Play action passes. you're throwing those deep end breakers. You're going to be playing behind an offensive line that can move bodies in the run game that's going to buy you some time in the pocket. You're going to get hit less because it's less drop back, less on your shoulders.

We just know that Aaron Rogers didn't want to operate that way. Otherwise, he'd still be, he would have wanted to stay with Matt LaFleur for an extra year, right? There was, I don't want to say, it wasn't necessarily animosity, but there was clearly tension schematically with the way that Aaron Rogers wanted to play because you saw how many concessions Matt LaFleur was making on a year by year basis. to try to accommodate what Rogers wanted. And the second he left, they get an extra tight in. They start doing more power spread stuff

where you're chucking the ball deep downfield off of play action. So I think that that was probably, that's probably not a good fit for him mentally because that's just not the scheme that he wants to plan. I think sneakily, and even though I don't necessarily understand it from the organizational perspective, if I'm him, I am going to call Kevin O'Connell and say, hey, if I go there, am I going there to be a mentor?

or am I going there to be the guy? Because if I'm here in Rogers, I don't want to go there to be the guy and throw to Jordan Addison and Justin Jefferson, right? And you know, I think schematically, that's probably the best of both worlds, considering what the Giants wanted to do. We talked about thinking about what the Steelers want to do offensively. You get a healthy mix of both. And we know that Kevin O'Connell has proven himself to be almost an expert at knowing exactly

what kind of offensive infrastructure he needs to make the quarterback feel most comfortable. You've got evidence of what he's done with age. quarterback's with Kirk Cousins before he left for Atlanta. So you just have all this evidence. I think that works out well in your favor. If I were Aaron Rogers, I would want to go to Minnesota. If not Minnesota, then the next best idea to me would be Pittsburgh. I just think that for all the reasons we laid out that that's not going to happen.

So maybe Minnesota is just the best landing spot. I guess we can't really rule out that Arthur Smith could change his offense. I mean, that's possible. We just haven't seen him change his offense for any of the quarterback. But I agree with you. I think that's probably the best case scenario. It's kind of like the discussion we had with Joe Burrow last year, where it's like just kind of give in to the offense.

It's going to make your life a lot easier. You won't have so much on your plate. You won't have so much on your shoulders. I think Cincinnati was in a spot where Joe Burrow is obviously in his prime. He's still capable of being that quarterback down to down. And then they have Jamar Chase and they have T. Higgins, two guys that can make a quick game style of offense, an explosive offense, as we saw.

I don't know if D.K. Metcalf and, George Pickens are those receivers. So I do think they would have to lean into the scheme a little bit more, and Aaron Rogers would have to adjust. The one thing that I wouldn't necessarily be concerned with if he went to Pittsburgh is like the locker room fit and everything else that comes with Aaron Rogers because Mike Tomlin has been doing this for decades. Forget about the wide receivers and Labion Bell and all those guys.

Ben Roslberger, similar to Aaron Rogers, he didn't have a podcast, but he had a weekly show appearance on Pittsburgh Radio, where he just used to throw players under the bus all the time. He used to say players ran the wrong route all the time. I remember he did it with Antonio Brown on an interception. That's similar to what Aaron Rogers is doing. And I don't think Tomlin is necessarily scared off from that. I think he used that as a challenge.

I think he's a coach who likes to take on those coaching challenges. It's almost like someone playing a video game and trying to complete side quests. Mike Tomlin would get a very good achievement if he was able to maintain Aaron Rogers in that locker room environment. Listen, after Antonio Brown, it's just like, he probably feels like, please, bring anybody. You think I'm going to be afraid to cut you? I'm not going to be able to handle Aaron Rogers.

That's going to be a breeze here. I do think the Steelers fit is the one where you look at it and say, they won 10 games last year with Russell Wilson and Justin Fields. In their mind, there's not like another great option for them right now. in a perfect world. Their defense fell apart at the end of last season, which shouldn't get forgotten. But if their defense overall can be good and it was pretty good for most of last year,

like you said, you added DK. Metcalf to George Pickens. Now you have a situation where you say, he doesn't have to be perfect. You kind of need to say, can you get close to average quarterback play? And maybe that'll be good enough to make the playoff.

I don't even think that's the conversation Tomlin's having, though. I think Tomlin is thinking, can we have a quarterback that's not going to screw everything at? everything up for the rest of the team, for the defense in particular. Are we going to have a guy that doesn't throw interceptions? Well, that's a checkboxer, Aaron Rogers,

because we know almost to a fault he doesn't throw interceptions. He's not going to take sacks anymore. He throws away the football all the time now. If you just want a quarterback that's going to dig and dunk and get you those five yards when that's all you need,

then I think he's a pretty good fit. The question is, in that offense, is he going to be able to supply those five-yard gains and is he going to play the same style of play we've seen the last couple of years where he is avoiding mistakes at a high level still. Deonta, you mentioned

Kevin O'Connell and the Vikings. So I get it from Rogers' perspective. I'm with you. If he's like, yeah, I'll go play with Justin Jefferson and play indoors and Sam Darnold had success there last year or that from a football perspective. Let's go ahead and let's go do that.

If I'm the Vikings, like sell me on the idea that you let Sam Darnold walk in free agency, you used a first round pick on J.J. McCarthy, let's assume McCarthy is going to be healthy enough. I get it. If you're like, we have concerns, McCarthy's not where we want him to be, then it makes all the sense in the world.

But if you feel like McCarthy is going to be healthy enough to be in your offense, is there a way to sell me on Rogers has a significantly higher ceiling or can get you to a point that J.J. McCarthy cannot. No, I think really the sales pitch is like, Hey, the kid lost his rookie year to injury. We want a slow walk this. Let's make sure he's totally healthy. Let's make sure that we have totally built an infrastructure around him to be successful.

We're going to bring in a vet to compete with them. We think he can win the job. And if he doesn't, it doesn't speak ill of him because we brought in this future Hall of Fame, legend level quarterback to come in and be a bridge for him for another year while he really gets his sea legs underneath them from an NFL perspective. And I think if you spin it that way, I think it's, there's you get enough buy-in from fans. I think that for me as an analyst, I would look at that and just say timeline-wise.

You have now used up two very valuable years of rookie contract quarterback. I don't know if you're going to get enough return on investment out of those two years, having Donald been there. And those are obviously circumstances that are outside of Minnesota's control. It's not like they were anticipating J.J. McCarthy getting hurt. But I think that if you bring a guy in, if you're pessimistic, now you're saying, oh, is he not ready, is the ankle worse than you thought? Did you guys see something in practices or while he's in the building that lead you to believe that he needs more time to find himself as a leader in the

locker room? All those other questions starts cropping up. So I think it can work from a football perspective. I just think that from personality type perspective, I don't know what that says about JJ McCarthy if you're saying, we don't believe that we can drop him into the fire after taking this quote unquote medical red shirt year and being able to step in and be the starter. And not only that, not sharing the room with Sam Donald, who was kind of like a happy, go lucky, hey man, I'm just here to play quarterback and have a good time guy.

Now you're going to be sharing the room with Aaron Rogers, who is probably going to be a little grouchy. There's a lot of direction to you're going to the building. You know, so I don't know if I'd want that for my young quarterback who's effectively going to be a rookie again this season. Yeah.

The one thing is like, if you're the Vikings, can you afford to think like that? Can you afford to think like, kind of like in the online brain, type of view of the league where it's like, oh, we have to prioritize developing this rookie. No, they won, what do they win? 14 games last year. And if they had better quarterback play, they might have made the Super Bowl, who knows? And I think Aaron Rogers,

like, say what you want about Aaron Rogers at this point. I think he's a better quarterback than Sam Darnel still. And I think he's better in the ways where Sam Darnett was bad, where he can get fooled by a defense. I don't, Aaron Rogers can get fooled by a defense. So don't get me wrong. He's not like Tom Brady where he's like this computer who just processed. everything. He gets things wrong all the time. But he is better, more equipped to deal with that style of defense that you're going to see in the playoffs than Sam Darnold has ever been. And I think that Sam Darnold wasn't a good player when he was moved off his spot. So even that thing you lost

with Aaron Rogers when he's kind of past his prime now where he can't move and create throws. Sam Darnold wasn't doing that either. And at least the benefit with Rogers is that he throws away the football. He doesn't make mistakes where Sam Darnold, that's where he got into trouble for the most part, was when he got into those situations. So, like, I could totally see a situation where not only does Aaron Rogers give you a higher ceiling than you had last year with Sam Darnold, I think without a doubt he gives you a higher ceiling than you would with Jay J.J. McCarthy coming in next year, didn't have a rookie season. You got to pare down the offense.

You can't be as expansive as it was last year, especially in the dropback passing game. If I'm the Vikings, I am worried about everything that comes along with Aaron Rogers. but if I'm Kevin O'Connell, I'm also like, I'm a good coach, and this is what I get paid to do. I get paid millions of dollars to coach these things and to manage locker rooms like this. I would have confidence of myself to be able to do that, and I think he gives them the best chance of winning a Super Bowl right now, even if it stalls out JJ McCarthy's development, in five years, if JJ McCarthy did develop, and the Vikings missed this little mini Super Bowl winner they have with this defense, and Brian Flores, I don't think he's going to be there for much longer.

Is that a win for you? just because you have pro-bowl level play out of your quarterback now where you could have gone for a championship? I don't know. I think that's the question you have to ask, and it's a complicated one. But if I had to answer it, I would lean towards, you know,

bringing in Rogers and just going for it. I think there's something you said there to just kind of piqued a thought in my mind that I think that one of the sublima messages that would come out of Aaron Rogers going to Minnesota, to me at least. And I've made this statement about Kyle Shanahan before, but it's that Kevin O'Connell believes

he's the quarterback of the Minnesota Vikings. If you go out and you seek out another veteran to come in, and it's not J.J. McCarthy. But if it's Rogers, do you still think that? I think it's such like a commanding personality that it's, I don't know. I see what you're saying. To me, I don't think Kevin O'Connell believes that any quarterback could come in and change the way that Kevin O'Connell wants to conduct his business.

That's what I think. It's like, I think that if he goes on and gets another veteran, he's getting another veteran because he believes it's the Kevin O'Connell show. And I don't even mean that as a pejorative. The data says, no matter who plays quarterback for Kevin O'Connell, Kevin O'Connell's offense is going to work and work very well. And I would be really fascinated to just see what that means for their team building strategy going forward, right? Like, did they just pick J.J. McCarthy because that was just a need and he was available there? Or do they genuinely believe that he is a franchise quarterback?

Because if it's the former, then I think that that's even more confirmation that Kevin O'Connell believes that all he really needs is a warm body who can put a ball on a sports. spot. And that's all this offense needs to be to run the way that O'Connell wants it to. I think the messaging, though, is like something that we worry about, not something that a football team should be worried about. Like, what is Mike Florey going to write a blog about it? Like, who cares? Yeah, they have to, if they think, now, I don't know that I agree with it. You know, I think Ruiz, probably you like Rogers at this stage of his career more than I do. But I think if they look at it, and I do think coaches will kind of look at Roger. I think you're seeing that right now.

There's multiple teams interested who are like, hey, you know, he can still sling it. This is Aaron. He can. I'm telling you. You know, I know nobody was watching Jets games at the end because I would not have been watching them if I didn't have to for these goddamn quarterback rankings, but I had to watch this guy every week. I'm telling you, he got better. By the end of the year, he looked pretty damn good. The arm is still there.

I will say that. If you look at it statistically here, I was pulling some of his stats before the show. 24th in EPA per pass play, 25th in success rate, 24th in pressure to sack rate, fifth lowest A-dot in the NFL. Really, his biggest strength was what Ruiz was mentioning, which is why I think the Steelers might be the team that lands him, is that he's not going to turn the ball over.

Fourth lowest turnover worthy playper, and it's been that way his entire career. He's also, I can't discount that this is like almost uncharted territory for a quarterback, 42 years old. Super Bowl era, two starting quarterbacks. Tom Brady and Warren Moon played at this age. Maybe he can be the exception. He did stay healthy last season,

so it's not like he completely fell apart physically there. I just, to me, maybe he could do it for a year. What do you think those numbers? Okay, let me ask you this. You put Sam Darnold in that same offense. What do you think his numbers look like? Do they look like that? I think that what those numbers say more than like,

oh, Aaron Rodgers is one of the 10 worst quarter. in the NFL now is that he's no longer a player that's going to, you know, rise above his situation. He's going to be a part of however good your offensive supporting cast. He's one of those quarterbacks that can get the most out of it, but he's not going to elevate it. In Minnesota, that's enough because there were times, like Sam Darnold did play well at times last year. But when you look at the overall results, like I saw you getting a lot of pushback because you said he played mediocre football in Minnesota. But when you have one of the best play players in the NFL, one of the best past. catching groups in the NFL, a competent offensive line, a productive running back in Aaron Jones,

and you're finishing 12th in offensive efficiency? Why, why is that the case? If you're getting good quarterback play, you're one of the best five best offenses in the NFL. If you're getting mediocre quarterback play, yeah, you hover around 10th in offensive efficiency, which is exactly what they did. I think you have to shoot for more than that, for more than mediocre quarterback play. And at this point, your best bet is Aaron Rogers, even over J.J. McCarthy, who could be better down the road and maybe you give up some of his development time and maybe that stalls his development. But you've got to go for the Super Bowl when you have a chance. And the NFC is open. Like you can win the NFC right now. I don't think you can win it with JJ McCarthy. I just, unless

he's like Jaden Daniels from the Gicto, which I don't think he has the physical ability to kind of fill in the gaps in his game as a passer like Jaden had last year, then that's not going to be the case. They're not going to win a Super Bowl. But with Aaron Rogers, if it works, then I think they have a chance. I just don't think Aaron Rogers is that kind of quarterback anymore, man. I just don't see it.

I don't see it. In what way, though, that's what I would ask. I agree, he's not that type of quarterback where he can move and create out of structure, but if the structure's there

and it's a good environment, he's going to get the most out of it. Like, he's that type of quarterback at this point in his career. I agree with that. He's like in the 10 to 15 range. He's no longer in the 1 to 5 range. Like he used to be when he was in an MVP,

10 to 15 range is better than what had in Darnold because in a vacuum Darnold is more in like that 20 to 25 range. I don't know. I think it raises their ceiling. It also lowers their floor. It's entirely possible. It's entirely possible. I think that maybe my lens is colored very heavily by like the first 10, 11 weeks of the season where the offense were really not even just the offense, but Aaron Rogers himself was really cratering under pressure.

It seemed like he was losing some of the answers that I expected to have versus a blitz versus tight coverage. I think that by the end of the season, like you said, Stephen, once things kind of smoothed out, I mean, everybody got fired and they were definitely playing a much more pared down version of the offense than they had been throughout the season. And I think that he was functional. I guess I just struggle with, I struggle with where to rank just a functional Aaron Rogers. Maybe the delta between who he is today and what I expect of him has just grown so wide because of how he's aged and the way that he looked at his worst last season that I just struggled to kind of get over that hill in terms of belief in him in the right environment. I just think the bar for what the environment needs to be as much higher maybe than you do to be able to get contends through Super Bowl contention level play from a quarterback position if Aaron Rogers is your guy. I think that's fair, but I think when you don't have a quarterback, you have you. just have to take bets.

Like, you have to take bets when you're, when you're devoid of a, like, a franchise forever quarterback, like some of these teams have. And sometimes you've got to bet on upside. Otherwise, like, what is the ceiling with JJ McCarthy? I guess it's impossible for us to answer because we haven't really seen him. But knowing what you knew about him coming into the league, like, I thought he was probably worth, like, I would say a low first round pick. Like, he's not going to be a transcendent quarterback, but we saw it Michigan.

He makes winning plays. I don't think he's going to lose you football games. He has a better arm than I think people gave him credit for, but it's not like a talented arm where he can shape passes and change trajectory on his throws a lot. You even saw that in the preseason when you saw the difference between him and Donald throwing in football. And I don't know how that works right now for Minnesota

with where they are, with what their Super Bowl window looks like, and with what type of quarterback he's going to be from the get-go. It's going to be the offense is going to be pared down. He's going to have growing pains. for sure. And in that division, there's no margin for error. I almost think, like, it's a bet you have to take at this point. I'm kind of talking myself into this.

Like, if they don't sign them, I'm going to be disappointed. Yeah, as you're talking about it, it could be, hey, maybe Rogers gives you a better chance this year. Playing McCarthy gives you a better chance in the next three years. I mean, maybe it's like as simple as that. That you play him. What do you have? He gets his reps. And now you're in a great spot next year.

I mean, he's still on a rookie contract. They've spent a lot here. The Rogers conversation, I don't, like, when you made the, you know, point that if you put Sam Darnold in that Jets environment, does it look much different? I agree with you. It probably doesn't look that much different. But then you come back to, well, is the environment that way because of Aaron Rogers. Like, I think if you told Kevin O'Connell, Rogers is going to come in and play how you want him to play in the system. You want him to play in. And it's going to, like, if you told him, hey, you're going to do what you did with Sam Darnett last year, except you're plugging Aaron Rogers in there, he would be more likely to sign up. It's just a question of, well, is that reality? Is that actually what's going to happen with Aaron Rogers at this stage? Is he going to come in and say, all right, what do we got? Hand me the playbook. Oh, yeah.

Sounds good. Yeah, don't really. Like, I don't know. Nothing we've seen recently suggests that he's willing to do that. But that is also part of coaching. Can you get him to do that? Like, and you need one year out of him. Can you get that out of him?

So it's an interesting conversation. There's certainly the wild card here. All right, let's end the Rogers discussion on this. make a little prediction, where does he sign? I'll start us off. I think it's going to end up being Pittsburgh. That to me feels like the merging of we know the team is interested and Rogers might look at it and say, go play for Mike Tomlin for one year and see what happens.

The Minnesota thing is we just had a good conversation about it. Maybe if Kevin O'Connell gets there, I could see that being Rogers preference, but I would predict if I had to say right now that it ends up the Steelers. Deontay, who do you got? Where does he end up? I think it's the Steelers. Track record tells you they're going to want a veteran in the building. They struck out bringing in a rookie in Kenny Pickett a few years ago.

Mike Tomlin kind of seems to have kind of taken the reins of, I want guys that I can trust and depend upon that have done this for a long enough time to where I don't have to concern myself with the development of a quarterback. That to me feels like Pittsburgh is going to lay out whatever the conditions are necessary to make sure that Aaron Rogers gets in the building. And I think that that's just, it's the safest bet. to me. I think anything else, New York, Minnesota, you know, any other team that might have been a suitor throughout this process, those situations are just too volatile for me. Pittsburgh feels very

clean and easy. Step in, be the starter in 2025. Yeah, I'm going to go with. Ruiz. I think Pittsburgh is the safest bet. And I think New York is not going to happen. I just don't see Aaron Rogers making that mistake. I think he knows what he is at this point. I think he knows what he needs around them. And I think Minnesota gives them the best shot at that. I don't know if Minnesota is going to be on board, just because they do have the first round quarterback on the roster. I hope as a football fan that it's Minnesota, just to see Rogers get one last chance with a good team. But I think Pittsburgh just makes the most sense on paper.

Vikings are best for content. Steelers are most likely. And Giants are only if he's just like, man, I love this house. We got a nice finished basement. I got the TVs on the wall. It's going to be such a pain. His podcast gear. Yeah, listen, we know what that life is like.

It's no joke. You don't want to have to do that unless you have to. All right, we'll see. We'll see when that ends up finding a resolution. We will talk about it. Then let's take a break. We're going to come back. We got Russell Wilson.

We got Kirk Cousins and we got some other quarterback moves to get to. All right. We're back on the Ringer NFL show. All right. We got Aaron Rogers out of the way. Russell Wilson is traveling to meet the Browns as we speak today, according to Adam Schaefter. And then we'll fly to New York to visit with the New York.

Giants. I don't know that we need to spend a half an hour on Russell Wilson here, but Deontay, how do you think this ends up for Russell Wilson? Is he a starter somewhere next season? I think the saddest timeline and the most realistic one, very similar to what we were just talking about with Aaron Rogers, is that a team like Cleveland brings them in and that he ends up being the starter there. And it just sounds, I hesitate saying it because it just sounds so gross, leaving my lips right now. But I think for Russell Wilson, I think that we can say one thing

for certain is that he is not the kind of guy that wants to go to a place where there's any confusion about what the quarterback situation is going to be. I think he did that in the Pittsburgh situation he took because he was promised a starting job and the second he was healthy enough to take it back. He got it back. I can imagine

Cleveland looking at their quarterback situation saying, hey, we don't want to tie ourselves to a quarterback, a rookie quarterback, I should say, or anything long-term, you can bring Russell Wilson in on a one-year deal, just kind of give them the reins, take your lumps, try to clear your books a little bit, and start your roster pivot from the 2026 offseason and beyond. Cleveland, to me, just seems to make the most sense. I can't imagine Tennessee or any other team taking a swing at bringing them in.

Yeah, it feels like Ruiz Wilson is kind of shopping himself to these teams. He'll be 37 years old. I will point out just statistically, I'm just saying statistically, there wasn't really much of a difference between Wilson and Rogers. Last year, Wilson was not in a great environment. I actually think Wilson played better than I was expecting him to play last year. It wasn't just him who fell apart there down the stretch. It was their defense as well. Do you think he finds a starting job?

Both those situations would be sad. I mean, Pickett last year requested a trade after they signed Wilson. And so they traded him to the Eagles. the Giants, if it's Russell Wilson starting for this Giants team with Joe Shane with his job on the line, that also would be pretty sad, I think. It's pretty sad for Kenny Pickett when you think about it.

When he's like, oh, man, they're bringing in Russell Wilson. Now I got no chance of winning the job. That's pretty sad on his part. And if he's just as intimidated this year, then maybe he's done for it. But, I mean, I don't know how that helps you as the Browns. I just think that he's a quarterback that it's hard to find use for him.

Just because of what he's become, and he's not going to stand in the pocket. He's not going to throw over the middle of the field. He's lost his ability to extend plays. He can still throw the moonball, but it's not as consistent as it was. Like, it's really hard to kind of pitch Russell Wilson, which I think is why he kind of has to go around from team and team and pitch himself. I guess my answer to the question is it doesn't really matter.

I don't think he's going to be a factor next season. I think if he is starting games for you, then you are looking forward to the 2026 draft already. Because I just don't think he's a useful quarterback. back at this point in his career. Yeah, I think you're right about that. Well, this all leads to sort of the Cam Ward question, and I'm behind on the draft, but I keep, you know, I have looked at kind of the top of the draft, the top names here

because, like, are the Titans just going to draft Cam Ward? If they don't, then the Browns have a pretty, I think it might be a nice solution at number two to just take a gamble on Cam Ward. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. But it's kind of, I don't want to say get out of jail free, but it's sort of. like what other option do you have to find a quarterback at this point if you're the Cleveland Brown? So I am looking at that. Deonti, do you have, if you had to like, you predict and we'll do a lot of this over the next six, eight weeks, whatever it is. But like, where do you think

Cam Ward goes? Because he's going to factor into this one way or the other. I think the longer I think about it, the more I think that Tennessee just ends up taking them one overall. I think the fact that Tennessee has not really been in the sweepstakes for any of these veteran quarterbacks is a signal that they must be seriously considering taking a rookie quarterback in this draft. And if you have control over which quarterback you can get, which you do when you have the number one pick, I can imagine them just taking the top quarterback on their board. And I think that for me, if Cleveland takes a Russell Wilson, that to me must mean that they've done a little bit of recon and probably feel pretty confident that Cam Ward, if that is their number one quarterback, is not going to be available to them once it's their time to turn in their card.

So that's kind of the way that I'm looking at it right now. And they've spent big on their offensive line, the Titans. Like they sign Kevin Zitler and I'm going, why are they signing Kevin Zitler, 35 year old guard to a one year, $9 million deal? It's like what? You need Will Levis to be like, why aren't you playing a young guy? But then I was thinking about it. I'm like, well, I guess if you're drafting Cam Ward, you know, they signed Dan Moore to play left tackle.

They signed Kevin Zitler to play guard. Last year it was Lloyd Cush and Barry. They spent big money on. They have two high draft picks on their office. offensive line. Are they trying to build this environment where they could say, hey, we can bring a young quarterback into this and he's not going to just have sort of the Caleb Williams treatment from last year. Ruiz, do you, are you with Deonti? Do you think that the Titans are going to spend the first overall pick on Cam Ward? Because if not, like I said, the Browns might be in kind of a

nice spot here. Yeah, I'm with both of you. Like I'm with Deonti where I think that makes the most sense. And I'm with you where it's like, we haven't really heard anything about the Titans taking them as taking him as a possibility, which is odd to me. I forgot about the Titans needed a quarterback until 10 minutes or 30. They need a quarterback. So it seems like an obvious match, but it's not when you see a bunch of mock drafts. Abdul Carter, I think he's a good prospect, but I don't think he's like some blue chip prospect that you have.

He's not Miles Garrett, for instance, that you have to take first overall. I don't even think he's like Chase Young, at least as a prospect. It would make the most sense in this draft. I don't know. Maybe trading down would make more sense for them long term because they're not really in the position to support. a rookie quarterback at this point. But again, you can't really think like that if you're an NFL team

and you don't know when you're going to be in the position to handpick your quarterback prospect. And I think Cam Ward is, he's not like I can't miss prospect, but he's got good enough tools where I could buy into him developing it into a franchise quarterback one day. He has that physical skill set. The Browns could also, if the Titans don't love Cam Ward or if they're bluffing, Browns could obviously move up to number one. And if you're the Titans, you get something for it.

Browns get Kim Ward, but at least you get additional draft capital. So we'll have a lot of draft talk, obviously, in the weeks ahead. Last veteran quarterback we got to talk about. So this is, I mean, this is something, the Atlanta Falcons. There is reporting out there. I think Charles Robinson and Yahoo. I think NFL network Ian Rappaport saying, if you thought the Falcons were bluffing about keeping Kirk Cousins on their roster, you're going to be sadly mistaken.

because they are going to hold on to him. Now, the key here is March 17th, the Atlanta Falcons, oh, Kurt Cousins, a $10 million roster bonus. Now, I don't know what Terry Fontano is doing to convince the owner, Arthur Blank, that let's go ahead and give Kurt Cousins $10 million here. I guess the way you would potentially sell the owner on this is we can get a legit draft pick for him.

So it's kind of like you're paying money for a draft pick in a way that, hey, we're going to pay him $10 million, but we're going to get draft pick X and a team's going to get desperate and it'll be worth it. Because other than that, I have no idea how you don't just say this is a sunk cost. We screwed it up. It's okay. We got panics. Let's just release Kurt Cousins right now. And he becomes a free agent because the other tricky part is Kurt Cousins has a no trade clause. So now you got to find a team that is willing to give up.

draft capital and a team that Kurt Cousin says, yes, I will go there and play for them. So I'm still not convinced. I still think this is a big bluff. And by the time we get to March 17th, they're just going to release him. But there is reporting out there where some reporters at least are convinced that they are actually going to hold on to him. Ruiz, I know you called this the worst bluff in NFL history. And I agreed with you on a recent show. Have you changed your mind at all? Do you think the Falcons could actually go through with this? Or is Kirk Cuthons going to be available in four or five days? No, I think he's going to be available.

The detail you kind of left out is that the 10 million bonuses for next year. So you have the $40 million cap hit for this year, and then another $10 million for next year that you're committing to Kirk Cousins. When you could just wipe your hands of him in the situation totally right now, I think this is just the one last hand they had to play. maybe leak it out there, hey, we're serious about this, let a reporter report it out, and then maybe teams come calling. Like, if I was running an NFL team and I had this situation on my hands,

that's how I would approach it. And I think the timing of it makes sense with that. Like, there's still plenty of times for some team to come in and offer him a deal. But it's not going to work because it's basically free agency for Kirk Cousins because of the no trade clause. Like if he was going to okay a trade to a team, that means presumably he would sign with that team on the open market. So why would you give up a draft pick?

And if they do give up a draft pick, it's not going to be worth $10 million. It's going to be like a six-round pick. If you are the Pittsburgh Steelers, are you sure you would rather have Aaron Rogers than wait this out? See. For Kirk Cousin, Deontay? You said exactly what I was thinking about. I don't want to be too presumptive, right? Because the reporting out there is still a little vague on what the market is for Kirk Cousins,

which leads me to believe that, A, there's either one team, like maybe one team involved, or there's nobody involved and the Falcons are trying to drum up more interest. I think if you're the Steelers, you'd probably rather have, you'd probably rather have Kirk if for no other reason than Kurt can operate within that offense, right? I think a lot easier.

I think that there's less push and pull involved if you bring in a healthy Kirk Cousins to be able to operate within that deal. And I think that that would make a lot of sense. Again, from Mike Tomlin's perspective, having an adult in the room that you don't have to police, you know, every day on the practice field in terms of how they're handling their business, the decisions

that they're making with the football. I do think, though, and Stephen, you said this, and I think we're all the lockstep on this. You put out a report like this on Thursday knowing that that Monday deadline is looming as a last gas for negotiation tactic. To me, this feels like maybe Pittsburgh is the team, and they're trying to say, hey, you never know. He could go to Minnesota.

He could go to New York. Wouldn't you rather just have the certainty? hand us a sixth rounder, you know, and help us out a little bit and we can get this deal done. And I think that that might just be what it is. Because I cannot imagine that there is real draft compensation on the line that they are trying to parse out right now. This to me just feels like trying to speed up the timeline thing so that way they don't get left hold in the bag after Monday when that roster bonus ends up cash in there. And a $40 million backup quarterback just makes no sense whatsoever. I know they were keeping him on the roster, I can't buy it.

And that does more harm than good for Michael Penix, too, because you have a guy making $40 million who played pretty well over the first 10 weeks of the season. So Pennix kind of stumbles a little bit. There might be some calls for Kirk Cousins. I don't know who in their right mind would want to see Kirk Cousins in 2025, but there are some sickos out there. And I think Arthur Smith is one of those sickos.

And I think it kind of works for his offense. Because we talked about how he didn't really fit in the offense last year because he couldn't move and they couldn't really do the wide zone. and they couldn't do the play action off of the outside zone. But Arthur Smith, he runs a similar offense, but it's off a different run action. They're not necessarily an outside zone. They're a downhill run team.

So the play action fakes are going to ask less of Kirk Cousin. So I think that even helps them out a little bit. And we've talked about how the structure of the offense just kind of fits in with what Kirk Cousins has been doing his whole career. I would flat out rather have Kirk Cousins than Aaron Rogers or Russell Wilson right now, especially if I'm the pitch. Wilson. Especially if I'm the Pittsburgh Steelers right now, because I'm with you, there were stretches, I don't want to, you know, overdo it. There were stretches of good play from Kirk Cousins last

year in the first half of the season. And I could sell myself, listen, you're not selling yourself on any of these that they're definitely going to work. But I could at least say he's 37 in August. He'll be another year removed from that Achilles injury. Like there is a theory there that maybe he could look better physically. He's going to come in, be a good teammate, run the offense the way you want to run the offense. It's not going to be like, you know, this guy in the building who you're not sure of, oh my gosh, what did he say on his podcast? This guy's annoying. He's throwing the receiver under the bus. You're not going to get any of that. He's going to be well liked in the locker room. If it's just a, hey, let's take one shot and see what it looks like. You traded for

DK Metcalfe. You got George Pickens. You have a defense that, you know, maybe could be good. I could much easier more easily talk myself into that working out than I could with the other two guys. So yeah, that's something to just keep an eye on here in the next four days. Maybe if you're the Steelers, you're like, Aaron, take your time, man. You don't need to call us back. Let's just get to that March 17th deadline and see if the Falcons are actually bluffing. And then we can make a decision. So if you're Rogers, I'm sure he doesn't think this way.

But if I was advising him, I'm like, let's go ahead and make our decision now. If we have a strong preference about where we want to go before another guy is on the market. Again, I don't think Aaron Rogers is probably thinking that way that Kirk Cousins is competition for him. I think he kind of wants to go to Minnesota. I think that's probably what he's waiting. It feels that way, right? Yeah, I agree with you. Which would be funny.

If he follows the Brett Farr pathway to a T, Green Bay, New York, Minnesota. I mean, he seems like, I don't know. Do you think that would be like a red flag to him? Or do you think that would be like, oh, the universe is telling me this is what I should do type of thing. You can go either way without. I could go. I was going to try to answer. And then I'm like, I'm not.

going to try to get near Rodgers's head. I'm just going to, I don't know. I'm just going to say, I don't know. But that's what he wants. You're giving him what he wants. He wants you to think like that. He wants you to be like, oh, it's mysterious and dark in there. No, it's not. It's not. I'm sorry. Well, that's why I'm not guessing. It's because I just don't think, not because I think he's a complicated thinker, just because none of his decision making ever makes sense to me. That's the real issue. Now, the last thing on this is Daniel Jeremiah I saw throughout, what if Kirk Cousins returned to Minnesota. What if they are in this spot that we just discussed with the Vikings and Aaron Rogers, why wouldn't they have a similar thinking with bringing Kurt Cousins back in a system that he already

knows playing indoors and hey, come be our starting quarterback for one year. Deonti, would that make any sense to you? Not really, honestly. Not really. I don't think that anybody needs to go do that again. And it's not even that there was some acrimonious ending or, that they significantly underachieve during the Kirk Cousins era. We talked about some of the tricky messaging that would come out of bringing in another veteran. We were talking about Aaron Rogers earlier in the show. I think that it's even weirder maybe to kind of understand in the building why you would bring him back, especially if you're bringing him back to compete for the starting job, right?

It would be different. If we believed, if we were all under the belief that that Denver game where it really kind of started to come apart for him was the cliff. and not just a symptom of how hurt he was, not just a reflection on him being injured, then I could understand maybe bringing him in, hey, you're a backup, feel good story, this is probably going to be your last year, come hang out,

and then that'll be the career for you. But if you think that he can still play, which I do think he can still play at least at a functional level as quarterback, why bring him in to go compete? I just don't know what purpose that would serve. Yeah, it makes it weird because they kind of moved off him

to get J.J. McCarthy and like going back to him. That makes it even a weirder thing to spin than the Aaron Rogers thing. It's more of the same. You're not actually taking a chance at that point. I think Aaron Rogers would give you something different. I don't know if it would be better, but at least it would be different. Yeah, if I'm JJ, I would be more upset about you bringing Kirk Cousins back than I ever would be you bringing in Aaron Rogers, I think. Okay. All right. There you go. All right. Let's take a break. We come back. We talk about some of the moves that have already been made. We'll close the show with old Daniel Jones and Matt Jones.

back in our lives in San Francisco. All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. I had a content idea as I was thinking about this. So Daniel Jones, Lance in Indianapolis, one year, $14 million going to compete with Anthony Richardson for the starting job. I think the Ringer sends Stephen Ruiz to Westfield, Indiana for training camp. I just want you watching every single practice documenting this Daniel Jones, Anthony Richardson, quarterback competition. It's a nice facility there. They have a nice PR staff. I'm sure you can get whatever access you want. There was a nice coffee shop the one time I was there that I went to.

I just want you charting every day, daily reports, Daniel Jones versus Anthony Richardson. As you made the joke in the last podcast, maybe you wear a helmet on the sideline just in case we want you staying safe out there. Ruiz, are you interested in spending a month this summer in Westfield, Indiana for this quarterback competition in the name of content? I would be down for it. I'd be down for it. I've always been a Daniel Jones isn't that bad guy. And I've obviously been an Anthony Richardson backer.

He just needs more time. Just give him more time. One more year, bro. That's all we need, I promise. No, but I do think it's an interesting competition. I think we've seen sadder competitions in the past. I still think that Anthony Richardson has a ceiling that he could reach, perhaps. Maybe if he takes the off the field stuff a little more seriously,

that was the chatter coming out of him getting benched in the season. in Indianapolis. I think if he is more motivated and he figures out his accuracy problem, which is a big if, then I think there's a chance that he not only wins his job going away, but he solidifies himself as a starter going forward

beyond next year. And then I think Daniel Jones is at least competent enough to be a decent bridge starter in that offense, which I think is going to make good use of his athleticism, which I think was the issue in New York is they never really fully committed to him as a true dual-threat quarterback.

At times you kind of saw it with Dayball at the end there when they made the playoffs, when they had Sequin in the backfield as well. And I think this sort of offensive environment in Indianapolis could get the best out of Daniel Jones. Now, I don't know what the best out of Daniel Jones means. Maybe it's like the 20th, 18th best quarterback in the NFL, that kind of level of play.

But there are two intriguing options where I don't think they're going to go into the season with bottom five quarterback play, unless both of them are just terrible and worse forms of what we see from them before they both have. regress, which is certainly on the table. Yeah, my thing with Daniel Jones is like there have been times throughout his career where I agree with you, where I'm like, I see the flashes, he's athletic. He's had serious injuries that now I sort of wonder just, is that guy gone?

You know, that was 2022, 2022, 2023 and 2024. He hasn't looked like the same guy. They haven't, they didn't use him in the run game as much either of those two years. And so now he's young enough. so maybe he needed some time off and he'll get healthy and there will be at least a, okay, this guy, like you said, is a certain level of adequate quarterback. It might not be that high, but not a complete train wreck like he's looked like the last two years here.

So that part is interesting to me, but again, I just wonder if just the injuries have taken a toll and he's not never going to look like that guy. Again, and then the Richardson part of it, man, it just feels like you hate your quarterback and you're telling everybody, but you're just like letting everybody know the issues you have with your quarterback. And I'm just, if I were an agent, I would just be like, you drafted my guy in the first round. And yes, maybe like he didn't do everything that you wanted him to do. But where is the organizational structure where you're helping him and teaching him and coaching him and showing him good habits rather than leaking to whoever, you know, any reporter of Pat McAfee, whoever about his work ethic and his habits, it's like, it's like they're just.

And you're telling everyone like, Daniel Jones, probably the favorite, you know, to win this job. Like, why are you, first of all, why are you doing it that way? It was just two years ago you felt good enough about this guy to draft him in the first round. And I just feel like the process that has gone on there has not been. I'm not taking Anthony Richardson off the hook. I'm sure some of the reports we see about that stuff are true. I get that. But I would also like an organization to provide an environment where you can work through those things with a young player.

If you believe in his talent, I don't feel like they've done that. And I just feel like at this point, I mean, it feels like they don't believe there's any chance. Anthony Richardson is their long-term answer. You know, this isn't, it's just like it feels like they're telling everyone, Daniel Jones is probably going to win this QB competition. It's going to be a real competition. Jones is the favorite. And so I just don't know what the point is.

So, Deont, that's my long way of saying that my dream of them trading Anthony Richardson to the Pittsburgh Steelers, I'm keeping that alive until, you know, either side reaches a solution. I'm going to say, I think that they should shop them. And I kind of think that they should shop them, even though I don't think that they'd trade them. And to me, this all comes down to the same organizational failure that we were hammering them over midseason when they did bench them, right? I think that every move in a vacuum, if you take away the messaging and the way that they handled it, every move that has happened with Anthony Richardson has made all the sense in the world. You give a young guy an opportunity to start and prove himself. He's got warts.

He's got issues. Okay, cool. Gets hurt. Let's try to reset. It still looks like he's not ready. take them off the field. That's fine. What they didn't have to do was tell everybody with ears that, oh man, we think these guys got a problem with his work ethic. We don't know if he's applying himself properly. We don't think that he's doing enough in the locker room to get the vets to buy in.

Nobody needed to know that. You did not have to be on front street with that information. And then we're bringing in Daniel Jones to me in a vacuum, this is like the perfect quarterback for someone like Anthony Richardson to be competing with. Because a lot of the issues that Daniel Jones has, Anthony Richardson should be able to beat if he's the kind of quarterback that they believe that he is because he is going to put the ball in harm's way. Daniel Jones does have problems with handling pressure. You're not always going to get the most out of his explosive arm potential with Daniel Jones, even though we know it's there.

For Anthony Richardson, you come in and say, hey, take care of the ball, don't take bad sacks, which he really doesn't. He's really good at evading pressure, right? Be accurate, you know, play on time and then push the ball downfield when the opportunities are there and make those. plays work and you'll be better than Daniel Jones, you'll be a better fit in this offense, I should say, that Daniel Jones would be. And that's a great benchmark for Anthony Richardson, a guy who came in so young that we knew needed time to develop. If you're better than Daniel Jones,

who was like fringe starter level quarterback, then you'll probably be okay, at least for this next year. But again, you're bringing Daniel Jones, and now you've got your former punter on TV, again, kicking in the back of your current starting quarterback. What purpose is, you? does this serve? And now it just makes it look like they're almost putting off every issue over the last two years has existed with this franchise off onto Anthony Richardson for not being the savior. It's not a fair position to put this guy into. You shouldn't have drafted him if the expectation was for him to be the savior and not a developmental piece. If you're not developing him, then that means that there's no need for Shane Sykin to be here because the whole reason he's here is that he was

great with the last quarterback, last couple quarterbacks that he's worked with. I just don't get the messaging. I don't get the posturing from Indianapolis. I can just see them bungling this 100% of the way Daniel Jones ended up being a starter. That's a disaster. You've got to go back to Anthony Richardson. And you've got another year now where you don't know how good your young quarterback is and you've ruined the vibes. It definitely just feels like we are on a crash course for a similar ending to next season that we had this past one. I have a more positive spin on this situation than I think the two of you do. I think, Okay. Honestly, I think this is all by design, like the chatter, the move, like the chatter after the move to get Jones.

Because last year they were all in. Like I talked to their offensive coordinator and their quarterback coach before training camp, or during training camp last year. And the messaging was totally different. It was like, oh, yeah, this guy works so hard. This guy's in the field room. And maybe they were just trying to put that out there. I think this year, after seeing how bought in they were and kind of seen how Anthony Richardson, and reacted to that because that's when

during the season you started hearing about the lack of work ethic. I think maybe they thought he got too comfortable and now they're making him uncomfortable this offseason to motivate him to come back to training camp a better player. I think it's just way too early to give up on him. 395 career dropbacks.

That's it. That's it. And he played like 13 games in college. You knew that drafting him that he was going to be a project. And I think he's been a project in areas Like DeAndi said, there are areas where he does shine in certain respects. Like he doesn't take sacks.

He 5.7 sack rate when he's getting pressured 37% of the time. That's insane. That's like a very good sack rate for him. He's not accurate, but we know he can throw down field. We know he can run and he's a factor in the run game. We saw what happened to that Holtz run game when he came out of the lineup, which is why they kind of had to go back to him later on in the year. I don't know.

I just see no way that Daniel Jones beats him out this training camp. Like I would bet money on. it right now that there's no way that he beats him out. I think Anthony Richardson is the week one starter. And I think the Colts coaching staff is hoping that he's the week one starter, which makes sense because the investment. But I think they think that he's going to be the week one starter, regardless of what they're leaking to the insiders right now. All right. So you think it's sort of a kick in the butt, motivational. I don't know. I'm not willing to give them if this were another organization. I just don't have any benefit

of the doubt. Yeah, I'm not getting it. Let's see. You might be right. Let's see where we are in September. Maybe it does. By the way, I would like to, can we see like an elite run game? Like, it's been a good run game. I just feel like with Richardson and Jonathan Taylor, come on, Steichen. Like, this should be like an unstoppable run game. It wasn't a league, but he was on the field.

When those two were on the field, it was like a top five run game last year. All right, top five. Keep them on the field, though. Let's get to top three. Yeah. Well, top five last year was a pretty big deal with those run games we have. I mean, they're not going to beat Philly in Baltimore. All right.

All right. All right. Let's see what happens in Indianapolis. All right, the main event. Enough of all the appetizers. Let's get to the main event. Kyle Shanahan, finally, years later, after so much reporting and rumors that no, no, no, no,

he wanted Mack Jones in that draft. He got convinced that Tray Lance was a better option. They collaborated. They land on Tray Lance. Ends up being a disaster. But now, years later, Kyle Shanahan gets his hand. on Mack Jones who joins the San Francisco 49ers. Ruiz, I don't even know what my...

Well, all right, here. I'm going to throw out some prompts, and then you take it wherever you want to take it. The odds... All right, how would Mack Jones perform in this offense with Kyle Shanahan? That's one thing. I would like to get your thoughts on.

The chances of Matt Jones supplanting Brock Purdy at some point next season. the odds of Matt Jones potentially being the 49ers quarterback in 2026 or beyond. Deonté, am I missing something? Help me out here before you. We just got to tee them up here. I just wanted to lay out the scenario.

I'm just looking for the agenda. Answer to your first question, mediocre. All right. Go ahead. Answer to your second question. Not happening. Answer to your third question. No way in hell it's happening.

I would love to come on here and be like, oh, they're bringing in competition for Brock Bernie and he's going to steal a job. Matt Jones stinks. He's not good. And if you saw him in Jacksonville, he was one of the worst quarterbacks I watched last year. He was one of the worst first round picks in modern history. And I still don't understand how he went first overall. They drafted Nick Mullins with the first over with a 15th overall pick or whatever he ended up going.

Brock Purdy's a better quarterback than him. And I think like both that were overrated in the same ways in the same ways. Like Mac Jones was hailed as this elite processor, even though he was in a play action RPO offense at Alabama. We saw him get to the league, and guess what? The processing went away. Brock Purdy, I think, was overrated as a processor, but he's much better, especially in that offense because we've seen it. He's much of a better processor than Mack Jones.

Mac Jones can't move. We know Brock Bertie can scramble around. I think arm-wise, Brock Bertie probably has a stronger arm, which is probably a low bar going up against Mac Jones in that regard. I just think this is a Kyle liked him before the draft, and that's why he's bringing him in. I just don't think he's any type of. competition for Brock Bertie at this point, which is saying a lot coming from me, because I'm not the highest on Brock Bertie.

But I just think he outclasses Mac Jones in every way as a quarterback. Deontae, I'm so disappointed. Where are you? Same. I mean, what did you want me to say? I thought we were getting a full-blown agenda. I'm disappointed. I'm not going to, I'm not, I know people think I, I spout out these takes just for for clicks, but no, I'm not going that far. Mac Jones is where I draw the line. Sam to Arnold, yeah, two years ago, if you asked me the same question, I would have, I would have had a full list of takes.

I've been like Sam Darnold's is the better quarterback. Sam Darnold beats the Chiefs in that Super Bowl. But Mack Jones, I can't go that far. I'm sorry. Mack Jones and Kenny Picker are where I draw the line. Two of the worst first round picks in history. And you can talk about Anthony Richardson all you want, but I'd rather spend $2 on a lottery ticket where I can win a million dollars

than spend $2 on a lottery ticket where I can win $3, which is essentially what the Patriots did. And they didn't win the $3, by the way. They didn't win the $3. They had one nice season, and then it all. all fell apart after that. Well, listen, we still have time. I know how Ruiz feels now.

Let's see. Let's get a couple preseason games in there. Maybe we send him to 49ers training camp, and he's, you know, seeing some things live with his own eyes. That will make it worse, trust me. I think that would make it worse. Maybe week four, week five, you know, 49ers get off to a slow start.

Although I'm not giving up hope. I'm not giving up hope. It would be funny, but it's not going to happen. All right. All right. I agree with you for the record. I like Purdy more than you do, though. So I think, yeah, there is a wide gap between how those two guys would perform in Kyle Shanahan's offense.

Not too wide of a gap. Let's not exaggerate now. I think very wide. I think very wide. I think very wide. Same. Between Purdy and Mack Jones. But you know what?

We're going to have a lot of time to talk about the San Francisco 49ers. So that'll do it for this show. We will see what happens here in the days ahead. will there be breaking news, then we will, of course, be back. Otherwise, we'll be back on Monday of next week. We'll kind of zoom out a little bit. Hey, what are some of the signings we like the most? Which teams had the best free agency period?

Which had the worst? Who's most confusing? We'll get into all of those things now that we've kind of gone. Transaction by transaction, we'll zoom out a little bit there. So that certainly will be fun. And then before you know it, start talking some draft in the weeks ahead as well. All right. Thank you to Deonti Lee and Steve.

Stephen Ruiz. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgapal. I'm Shil Kapadia. We'll talk to you next time on The Ringer NFL show.