The Ringer NFL Show - Sunday Divisional-Round Recap

Episode Date: January 24, 2022

Kevin and Nora are joined by Benjamin Solak to discuss the wild games between the Chiefs and Bills (1:58) and the Rams and Bucs (28:40). Hosts: Kevin Clark and Nora Princiotti  Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It is the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Kevin Clark, joined tonight by Nora Princiotti. Nora, hello? Hello, Kevin. a joy to be with you on this marvelous day of football and this marvelous day here on Earth. And we're also joined by Ben Solac. We were all on a Zoom for overtime in the last five minutes to that fourth quarter. It was touch and go whether or not Ben was going to survive Bill's Chiefs.

How you doing, buddy? My heart is racing. I told you in the pre-show, I lost two layers across the fourth quarter of that game. We had quarter-zip and a sweater. We went down to quarter-zip. Now we're just down to the T-shirt. we are, we are a high octane. I am without words.

That is, it's, it is so cool that we get to live in this world and do this thing, man. It is so freaking sick. At one point you just yelled, I need five and just left the room. Because I did. Okay. Nobody asked. Nobody was denying you five. I just, I needed a breather.

I needed to walk it out. If my mother were here right now, she would tell the story about how I could never sit down when I was watching football games when I was eight and how she always knew you got to whatever. I just, sometimes. you can't sit and you can't sit when Patrick Mahomes gets the ball with 13 seconds left.

Two plays. Field goal range. Okay. So, let's start. Chiefs 42, Bill's 36 and overtime. When I was watching this game, I thought a couple things. Number one, football is the best sport in the world.

Most of us here knew that. That a good football game is as good as anything in the world. And that this is why we watch. There's a lot of things you have to slog through to be a really dedicated football fan. Like, this is why you scour message boards in May, looking at undrafted free agents and see who's going to provide depth, right?

This is why you watch YouTube videos of training camp trying to glean what these teams are going to look like. This is why you sit through preseason games and blowout losses. You're all going towards and building towards a moment like this. This was perfect football. This was amazing. This was two fan bases who had seen their team build perfectly every step of the way, saw a team that had done the same thing.

and it was down to the quarterbacks, a couple of plays, and some of the most exhilarating things I've ever seen on the football field. Nora, I'll start with you. Your first takeaway from this game. Well, it was all of that. And first and foremost, it was two absolutely incredible quarterbacks just operating on all cylinders. I think in regulation, Allen and Mahomes combined 54 for 75.

That's 72% completions. 638 yards, six touchdown zero picks. This game had, the chance going into it to be great because of the two guys playing quarterback. And it's just so exciting that we potentially get to watch these two go at it again over the next few years. Obviously, there's a little bit of remorse about overtime and Josh Allen not getting to touch the football because in a perfect world, you would get to see the two of them

do battle in that sense as well. But hats off to both of them. That was just unbelievable to watch. So let's go through this. So there were four scores after the 154 mark. So the first one is Gabriel Davis. Just stupid. Fucking ridiculous.

So Gabriel Davis, 27-yard touchdown. That was the one that Mike Hughes fell down on. Two-point conversion passes Stefan Diggs made it 29 to 26. 41 seconds later, Tyree Khill scored on a 64-yard pass from Mahomes. We remember that. Put up the piece sign, did not get flagged. So like I love that in the chat. Then, exactly one minute later, Davis catches a pass for 19 yards.

I believe that was over-logerious need, but it was just kind of a busted coverage in general. And then with two seconds left, Harrison Butker makes the 49-yard fuel goal. As time expires, we go to overtime, and obviously we get the Kelsey touchdown then. Ben, if you were to isolate one thing that mattered in the scan, you start where? Oh, my goodness. I have no idea. All right, they just group them all together. Just list 10.

I think, I think, I'll, I'll say this. We, I will never forget the final 20 minutes of this game, the final 15 minutes game clock, final five minutes, final two minutes of game clock. But we for the first 30 to 35 minutes, first 40 minutes of this game, saw two defenses, take away explosives, right? Deep passes were not accessible until that Gabe Davis shot, which really just uncorked this whole thing. Explosive runs really weren't happening.

outside of Mahomes crambles until Clyde Edwards O'Lear scooted for a couple of big ones there in that third quarter. For over a half, these defenses took the best offenses and kept them from explosives. A, it didn't matter because 28, 31 points were scored in those first 35, 40 minutes of game clock. And then B, it didn't matter again because the levees break, baby. Offense beats defense. Like this is, this, the rules are too slanted. The universe is too shifted. This is gravity. it is inarguable offense and especially explosive offense is going to win.

So this was a reminder that you can be perfect for as long as you want. But there are inevitabilities in this world and they are named Joshua Allen and Patrick Mahomes. And yes, somebody had to win. It's the playoffs. And that's how that works. But I mean, these are forces of nature, dude.

And that's why like my main takeaway leaving this game is, oh, everybody's talking about this is the next Brady Manning. This is beyond Brady Manning. I mean, it didn't. Calm down. But the thing is like, it didn't look like that, man. Kevin needs five. It didn't look like that.

Like the longevity of Brady Manning. Yeah, it lasted 15 years. Right. The longevity is separate. But no singular game in Brady Manning looked like that where it was just Titans. I mean, it was just, like I said, forces of nature, just clashing in celestial fashion. That, to me, those fireworks unmatched. Now you're talking Titans, so Kevin's on board.

Yeah, exactly. So what was it then, Ben? Like, why do the explosive happen? Was it just the inevitability of the quarterback and the wide receiver pairings? I mean, this was peak offense. This was amazing play calls. This was some defensive miskeys. Mike Hughes is falling down.

Not what you want. But was this just if these guys play for whatever game time ended up being, 63 minutes, whatever, that eventually there will be a run where the defense can't keep up with them? Yes. In the set, like, let's take the Gabe Davis touchdown for an example. You got Gabe Davis on the big post with Dawson. and Knox run in the bender, right?

So Knox is breaking at like 15, 18 yards. That's an explosive pass right there. Like by most objective measure, that's an explosion pass. Chiefs are playing with too high, right? One Thornhill is sitting there, and he's in conflict. He's either got to run deep with Gabe Davis or he's got to sit on top of the bender. He, by human quarterback estimations, by the laws of man, is taken away the deep post, and you can throw the bender.

The bender is open. There is nobody around it. Josh and Stephen Ruiz was making this point all week. said the bills solve the too high problem by just throwing deeper than deep. They don't like, oh, let's go underneath. Let's go on scratch. They just like, oh, you're taking away deep. We're going to throw it deeper.

Like we have the solution. We have the howitzer. It doesn't matter. Stand on the goal line or else. Exactly. So Josh Allen just goes Clark Kent and says, I'm throwing it over the top of Juan Thornehill and drops it in a bucket 60 yards down the field on a line. The ball traveled for two seconds.

It was unbelievable throw. That is the sort of thing where like structurally the chiefs answered it. But again, by the rules of man, like the expression. explosive was taken away. But once you choose, like, all right, we're going nuclear. Like, we are opening the tank. Pedal to the floor. You choose. And then you see Mahomes come back and say, all right, they've been chasing us all over the field on crossers for 40 minutes. They're tired. We're just going to keep on running them. We're just going to keep on running them. If you get the ball, Tyree Kill in momentum, you get the ball. Miko Harmony, you're moving.

Keep moving. And we're just going to run these boys all over the yard, right? There's just a duration there that can't be withstood. Okay. I want to break this down into pieces because there was so much that we have to digest. And if we keep asking the question of like what stood out, there was so much overload. Ben, you made the point when we were on the Zoom. Like,

you've forgotten everything because it was just too much football. It was just too much football. So we'll start with you, Nora. The Bills and Josh Allen, this performance said what about his place in the league? Everything the bills have done over the past couple of years, master class and team building. We can get into that.

But this meant what to Josh Allen and the bills tonight? To be in this kind of game. I think it, It shows that even in a year where we talk so much about, you know, the regression potential after last season, their ceiling is elite, elite, elite. And I keep going back to the point that Stephen Ruiz made last week about them saving him as a runner, maybe learning the lessons of working with Cam Newton, which so many guys in that building did. and using him to solve their problem of not having much of a viable running game for parts of the season

and just being unstoppable when they're clicking in both modes. But I do think that this game, particularly on offense for the bills, just, and it sucks they didn't win, right? Like you wish both of these teams could keep playing because it's the culmination of so much team building dedicated to, having an explosive passing game and just believing, right, like Ben said, offense is going to beat defense eventually. That's why you end up with Gabe Davis, right? You draft him the fourth round after you drafted Docs and Knox in the third the year before

you keep adding. You keep adding guys, even when you're getting veterans like Beasley, like Diggs. You just keep attacking that so that you have all of those different weapons when the quarterback puts it together. And they tested. that theory, right? How much can you invest in the passing game before your deficiencies in the run game come back to bite you during, at times during the season, Alan ended up being being the fix to that. But I just, you know, this had to be the game that they were imagining themselves in when

they were building that way. And again, it stinks that the quarterback doesn't get to touch the football. But I can't, you know, they must be able to at least feel like they gave it everything they could. quickly would you change O T rules you know I've always been a stickler of like I don't really care it is what it is this might be the game that gets me to change my mind I'm in a similar boat like if if they change it it'll be because of this game I'm fine with either way to be honest

part of part of football is getting a stop and listen offense always wins but part of football is getting a stop right and if you're able to do that defensively then you're able to get the win Also, you know, tails never fails. Maybe write that down there. Whoever the select, I forget who's selected for the bills. But come on, buddy heads. Ridiculous.

Also, worth noting that without kicking a touchback, it's possible that we don't go to OT. Right. No squib, right? No squib. Special team, what a weekend for special teams, guys? Special teams is the last thing you see before you die. How upset is Belichick the missed special teams weekend?

That's a good point. How upset is Joe Judge? I mean, his team was right there, the process, baby. It was, we were peaking. We were close. Special teams weekend is, like, infrastructure week. It's just, it's a little, it's a little, like, they, everybody goes on a camping trip and they talk about,

what is it? John Harbaugh and Bill Belichick always tell the competition committee never took the foot out of the game, and they both missed this. So, there you go. I think Rex Ryan said something similar. Ben, did you learn anything about the bills? Yeah. I would say, number one,

that the, I thought Brian Dable came in with a really good game plan and then had blinders on a little bit. And he said, we're going to be able to get Devin Singletary involved in the passing game. We're able to get our backs involved. Isaiah McKinsey involved in the passing game. We're going to be able to manipulate these linebackers. We're going to be able to work our way down the field and eat clock.

And then for the rest of the game, anytime he got into like second and four, second and three, he was like, sick. I get to run it now. And he kept doing it. And he kept losing yards. Picking up zero yards, picking up one yard. You get to third and one, third and two and go, I can do this. this. I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can, I can put together these methodical

drives. And it usually did not work. And man, coming into that final drive where they got the ball, not final drive, what felt like it was tried, they were trying to make it the final drive. It ended up being there was like four more drives afterward. But they got the ball left with about six and a half minutes and made it very clear from the jump. We are running the football. We are throwing underneath. We are trying to eat the entire clock and never give this ball back to Mahomes. Obvious why they were trying to do that. It is now very clear why that was the plan, but that felt very dangerous. That felt very scary because that's not really how this team was built. And I wish, I think, if you go back and you look at things that you'd like

to change, especially knowing what we know now that like Mahomes went and got the game time field with literally 13 seconds on the clock, you emphasize clock a lot less in that moment. I know you're doing it because you want to keep Mahomes on the bench and I get it. But you have the Mahomes answer in Allen because he's just as dangerous. He worries them on that sideline the same way my home's wearing you on your sideline, let him throw it on the sticks, let him open it up a little bit. So Brian Daibah, whether he's in Buffalo next year or otherwise, I think he had the solution and he got a little bit too focused in on this idea of like, we can be a methodical team, we can be a running team, we can be a short yardage team, when it's just simply not the DNA of how talented Alan is and how talented that receiver room is. And to me, that that's the big mistake that I see if there's one to talk about in Buffalo. And the thing I'm worried about about Daible going forward is figuring out that balance when you have such a unique talent.

like Josh. Nora, playing against Mahomes seems like a nightmare. Like, I know this is well worn ground, but tonight, like,

he turned into Jonathan Taylor on that first drive. Like, he is a, he's the perfect football player because, I mean, we've been talking for 75 years about taking what the defense

can give you. And I don't think anyone does that as well as, as Patrick Mahomes, in every single attribute of the game. Yeah, he really, I do think, has mature.

and that's sort of an overdone talking point at this point with him. But you do see how calm he is in just, especially early in the game, taking what's there. And then when it gets to the point where you have 13 seconds, you have to score, it's just like, oh, he's back to doing Mahomes nonsense. And the defense is exhausted and there's no way to stop it. It's unbelievable. And that was one of the things when we've talked to this before,

but when he and I talked in August, he basically said he didn't want to flee the problem. pocket. He didn't, he wanted to stay in there playing rhythm. I think he was, he was the number one in rhythm passer in the NFL this year. And when he had under 2.5 seconds, he had one of the best ratings of football this year. But be kind of beyond that, once he realized he needed to do that to win the game, he was totally fine with adjusting. And we've seen that over and over and over again. And like, you know, the Nick Wright point, we joked about it last week, but the Nick Wright point about how the Chiefs offensive line was playing so well, it was taking some of the

improvisation skills away from the Holmes. We didn't have that problem tonight. They were able to, the bills were able to get pressure. There were problems kind of keeping them upright on all evening. And Mahomes was able to do the types of things that took our breath away three years ago, two years ago. That was what was amazing. Anything about Mahomes, Ben, that you want to emphasize? Yeah, the running ability as well. We got to remember last year's AFC championship game turf toe.

He wasn't doing that. And they still won that game. And then he comes around this year. And what do you see on the first drive? Upwards of 40 rushing yards. right and that that buffalo was getting in third downs like that was an opportunity to go out scoring the opening drive get a stop in arrowhead set a tone build a lead and he was taking hits he was popping right back up yep and he was scooting i mean he was moving faster than he's ever moved and

that's not a really high bar but homes always looks like he's kind of jogging like a little bit uh but it was it was impressive to see him move the way he did that kept the chiefs afloat on offense for the first couple of drives he had 69 rushing yards in the first three quarters which was a career high already i don't i don't remember what he put together at the end of the game but he pretty ended their leading rusher and a critical rusher for them. Alan was obviously doing the same by the end of the game. But that was really important from Mahomes because the same thing that's true for Allen, right, in terms of how much do we want to use this guy as a runner in the regular season

is true for Mahomes. He is a very, very, very valuable runner. You just only want to unlock that when you really need it. And this is an instance in which they were able to mistake free football from the Holmes too. Man, oh man, it could feel like you need to push. It could feel like you need to go for the kill shot. And he never did.

And that's maturation. And a mature Patrick Mahomes is the. the scariest Patrick Mahomes, man. Completely agree. It was amazing. And by the way, you're talking about his running. I think he was 18 miles per hour at one point today, which is why fast he's ever moved.

And then beyond that, I did see Danny Kelly is the king of what he runs like tweets. And so he said something about somebody. And then somebody replied, I don't have the name. I'm sorry. Somebody replied that Mahomes runs like he's trying not to spill a beer. Yeah.

Justice Muscat of SB Nation had that original image. And it's the best one ever. It's just perfect. It's just perfect. So that will be ingrained in my head forever. Anything else in the way this game was played before we get to big picture topics? Harrison Butker? Man, what a save.

What a win for Harrison. What a turnaround. Harrison Butker's name could have been said with a lot different tone and many, many, many, many Kansas City bars, and it will not be. Shout out to Harrison. This is a good question from Kalin, Senegal. Which quarterback played better, then? Mahomes.

But at this point, man, I mean, like, What's the difference between like, you know, a king and a god? Like, I mean, it's just you have no complaints in either direction. Mahomes won the game. And I would say, Mom's able to avoid probably a couple more sacks, right? I mean, I don't think Mahomes took like one sack and it was on third and goal or something like that. Like it was, it was an unbelievably mistake free high-scaling performance. Man, that first touchdown throw from Mahomes, I forgot about this.

Holy smokes. The Byron Pringle touchdown, the reverse rollout moving to his right, flipping his hips. Get the fuck out of town, chief. I mean, goodness gracious, what a throw. Yeah, it was my homes. All right, let's go big picture. Nora, next week, the Chiefs play the Bengals. Where do you start?

Good luck to the Bengals. I'm sorry. Either one of these teams, no matter and recency bias, whatever. Like, I absolutely trust in my heart of hearts that what we just saw, they are exhausted, I'm sure, and they are on an emotional high. and there is a come down from that and they will have to figure out how to deal with it.

But we just saw two of the absolute best teams that the NFL has to offer. And them going up against a team that just barely beat, sorry Kevin, the Titans, I know who I'm picking. Okay. Are we sure that the Bengals are also

not coming off an emotional high after, I mean, two wins. Zach Taylor was out here throwing game balls into the crowds after the wild card win. The Bengals are on this. And every Bengals player was like, yeah, whatever we expect to be doing this, which I think is its own version of immense swag.

But we are talking about two different levels here. And I don't know how you watch that and I don't come away with that feeling. Also, like, I think in probably at Kansas City locker room, like, yeah, there's a lot of motions. You're going to come off a crazy high. This is nuts. You get a fourth consecutive AFC home game, AFC championship home game. that's banana's cream pie.

All right. That's just not, that's a record. That is going to help you out in terms of getting emotionally ready for this game. The other thing is that you lost to the chiefs in a way that you probably did not feel

as very just like last month. That was an interestingly refereed game. And I think that's going to resonate for a week. And so if this were Buffalo coming off of the New England game and then a win against Kansas City, I'd be really worried about emotions and energy coming into this Bengals game. There's a couple mitigating factors

that I think helped the chiefs out a lot in terms of making sure they're up and ready to go. I love the Bengals. I absolutely love what they've done. And I think the defense is underrated the number of pieces that showed up last week. I was super impressive yesterday. I don't know what Dan is.

Lost in mind. That's a different. This is a different. It's just a different thing. It's interesting to me because I know that Andy, the book on Andy Reid was that he couldn't win the big game. But the Mahomes era chiefs, I've been to a bunch of those practices.

and they are so no nonsense and they just run the play and they don't repeat the play and they just get out of there. And I've read so much and heard Andy Reid talk so much about how he just gives him the barement of information

that they need and then he just moves on. It's not going to be raw, raw stuff. I think before the championship game two years ago, Eric B. Enemy addressed the team. But Reed isn't really that guy necessarily. So emotions, A, they come from the locker room.

But B, I just feel like they're really good at being able to take the emotion out of it. That's why I think, they're able to come back from double digits all the time and be a quick strike offense, is that they play a very unemotional brand of football. So if anybody who's getting an emotional letdown, I doubt it's the chiefs. Okay, so real quick before we start moving on here,

how will you remember this game in 5, 10, 15 years? I mean, I will remember the last two minutes of the game as the entire game. I will remember it as just like two young quarterbacks being shot out of a cannon at each other and absolutely taking names. I'll remember Gabe Davis putting Mike Hughes on his bottom fourth and 14. Josh Allen so scared of messing up that he threw the ball so hard to a wide open Gabe Davis that it literally knocked Davis over in the end zone. And in that moment, I'll remember how positive I was that they beat Mahomes.

And I will always look back fondly on how wrong I was. not just because Mahomes drove down the field once, but because he did it twice, and then he did it a third time. And that will be a great reminder that like, and the early game this week as well was the same thing. Like sometimes it feels over. It is not over.

I forgot the early game even happened. I know. It took me a while to remember which team's blood. Couldn't have anyone. One of the things, guys, that I think this game is going to be remembered as. And the Rams and the Chiefs from a couple years ago, was the start of this, I think.

And by the way, those two teams are still alive. This could happen again. But I kind of feel like we're going to remember this playoff game is the start of more playoff games like this, where the quarterback depth, as we talked with us yesterday, the quarterback depth around the league is so good. And there are teams that will optimize their rosters like the chiefs have, like the Bills have.

I mean, the Bills had one of the best three-year plans I've ever seen. And it was funny because I was thinking in my head during overtime actually, but a quote Josh Allen said to me in July where he said, you know, year one, let's just get in there. Year two was the line. Your three was the weapons. Your four, it's go time. This was their year, I think they felt.

And that's why they drafted the past rushing guys in the first two rounds because they wanted to beat the Chiefs. There was just so much that they had organized their life around to win this game. And they didn't do it. And there's going to be more teams like the bills who have a stacked roster and they get to the divisional round

and they get to the conference championship game and they see a team that's just like them has an elite quarterback, has the roster. And that's why I think that this could be maybe the start of, it's already a golden era of quarterbacks probably, but we might see something really, really, really special. Ben, what do you think about the bills

going forward as a franchise? It's tough to figure out how you finish this game, look at your decision makers and go, okay, now let's make sure we give the chiefs best shot next year so that we can beat them because the entire feeling in that building after the 2021 loss was all right let's circle the wagons let's build the team and let's give them the shot let's go back and beat them and you just turned out that for four quarters and like you're probably going to lose dable and if not head coaching cycle you might lose leslie fraser in the head coaching

cycle and you got to sit down and and look at new coordinators and look at sean mcderman and brand and bean and say okay how do what do we do now to make it even better like at this point i don't I don't know what you do emotionally to say we're going to be able to build a better shot, a better chance. I'm sure you talk yourself into something. But that's what's really scary right now is that feeling of like that that wasn't enough. Yes. But just remember that this was a sound rebuild, right? Like the free agents were important, but they were supplemental to what was ultimately built through the draft.

I think their bottom half in cap space going into next year, but it's not terrible. Yeah, it's fine. I just the main thing I'm worried about is replacing dable and fraser right which if you keep fraser sick that feels great they did a really impressive job replacing trade reviews white this year schematically they're really good they're very very well coached team on defense awesome offensively like dable was building out a flame thrower in terms of this passing game one like I said earlier I wish you relied on more uh you got to be able to get that higher right immediately and that's that's scary there's a lot of leverage in that there's gonna be a lot of guys lining up, take that job, and you got to figure out the right one. That's tough to do. Ken Dorsey's in the building, but he obviously doesn't have a huge history. He's a play caller. He's, I believe he's the, at least the passing game coordinator. He might also be the quarterback's coach. It'll be really interesting to see how those domino's fall. Leslie Frazier's job in the last, I think Tradevius White went out on Thanksgiving. In the last five weeks, six weeks of the

season is one of the best coaching jobs of the year. And being, I think, allowing the fewest passings in the NFL after you lose a superstar corner, that was unbelievable. So the The Bills will be back. And I feel, what I'm going to tell you. I know how fandom works. Bills fans aren't even listening to this podcast because they're so depressed right now. But they can take solace in the fact that there will be many more years of this kind of stuff.

Anything else since this game, guys? I'm happy. Thank you. Would you? Thank you to the quarterbacking gods. Nora, would you want to be a fan of one of these teams during that game or not? Would you want to be dealt out? Oh, my gosh.

Yes. Yes, I think, I think just for the sake of feeling something unbelievable, I think you put it all in the line. I just know how I feel during like a, you know, like the Florida State Miami game this year where the two coaches working on getting fired. And I couldn't handle that. And now all of a sudden, it's just, you know, the big, the, one of the biggest games in the sport. Like, you battle for four years for this game. I couldn't, I could not have handled that. Ben, if this was an Eagles game, would you have died? Eagles, Eagles kind of did play a game like this. Yeah, are we talking about the Super Bowl? Super Bowl?

Yeah, I ended up in five inches in front of the TV with my shirt off in front of my entire nuclear family. So that's where I was emotionally for that game. So I, when did the shirt come off and why did it stay off? I want to say it was, I think it was right before the Philly Special actually. Or maybe perhaps it was during. So it was when they chose to go out for a while. No, I mean, eventually it went back on.

But again, I'm telling you guys, I just, I just, I get, I get a lot of emotions and I get high temperature. I'm moving around and then just it gets everywhere. I would be through a wall right now, if this is one of my teams. I would not be on this podcast. I'd probably no longer be employed by this company for the things that I said during the game. I'm very happy I was not a fan of this team of either one of these teams at this time. I would not want to be a fan of one of these teams and then have to do a podcast afterwards. Yeah.

That much is true. Wolf. Let's move on. it's Rams 30, Tampa Buccaneers, 27. This game was equally amazing. It's going to be completely overshadowed by the fact that we saw the best game we've ever seen on Sunday night. But wow, the Rams tried to give this away. The buck screwed up.

The offensive line was awful. I think that Vaughn Miller had a 25% pressure rate in this game. It's kind of all you need to know. The Rams fumbled more times than any teams since the Broncos in Super Bowl 50. And boy, mistakes were made. Ben, where do you start? Yeah, talk about watching the meteor descend, man, in terms of the inevitability of the elite.

You're up 27 to 3 on Tom Brady, and it's halfway through the third quarter, and you're like, baby, pass rush is cooking. Worf's out, back up to Worf's out. Chris Godwin's out, AJ Brown's out. We traded for Vaude Miller. Feeling good. You give up a field goal, you're like, shucks.

27 and six, three touchdowns. We're feeling okay. It's run off the clock. The buck's throwing interception. We're loving it. We're going to go ahead. We're going to score on this drive. A fumble, that's embarrassing.

That's a bad mistake. Got to execute better. Buck's go down, score, 2713. You know what? Whole fourth quarter, this is getting a little bit dicey. We're going to be okay. You get a couple turnovers on downs on defense. We're going to be all right.

Brady scores that touchdown. Three minutes left. 55-yard bond to Mike Evans. And that's when the thought first worms in your head of just like, not us, man. Please, God, not us. We can't. We can't, Falcon. Please, God, do not let us talk.

Right. And you would successfully. avoided 27 to 3, or 28 to 3. You're at 27 to 3. You're like, that's safe, right? You can't meme 27 to 3. You've already meme 28 to 3. And then you hand the ball off to Cam Acres, who has already fumbled in this game.

Yeah. And then Domit and Sue just gets one paw on that thing, knocks it out, Levanti, David, falls on it. And Brady comes jogging back out on the field. And you're like, man, how did I ever fool myself into believing? We were going to survive a four-score lead in the second half against the Terminator, all 44 years of him, all 22 years of NFL experience. He goes, they score. And then the bucks bust.

The bucks bust on Cooper Cup streaking down the field. And I don't know, I wrote about this after the game. It gave this sense of mortality to Brady that we're just not used to. I don't think it means he's going to retire. I don't think it means that the magic is gone. But certainly, we know Brady to always get back in those games. It felt very peculiar to watch him tie it up. and then the defense not finish the job.

That was a new and I think a rather uncharted feeling. You could see how it kind of deflated Brady was in his press conference, just bringing in these new emotions that he didn't really have to reconcile with in Belichick's defense for 20 years. I don't happen a couple times, but still, like, generally, they were just so good at finishing these comebacks or maintaining these leads or whatever. And so there was that peculiar reminder there that, oh, wait, Brady's 44,

and some other teams in the league can throw up pretty far down the field pretty fast as well. And so Rams move on, but it was a weird watch to watch Brady get all the way back up there and then fall just a little bit short. Nora, I think there was a kind of a thought going around after the game that, oh, the Rams must feel terrible coming out of this game or they don't feel good.

I think they may be in the back of their mind, like, that sucked, but they're more happy to just survive in advance. Like, just the playoffs should just beat Tom Brady. But how did you feel about the Rams coming out of this game? I think they just,

you just move on and wash it. This sounds a little silly. I think the just, genuine chaos that we've seen this entire weekend kind of helps you mentally. I think if you're Stafford and he had to have been thinking, right? Brady's coming back like, oh God, I'm trying to do this

playoff thing for the first time ever. Excuse me. Holy crap. Holy crap. He had a post game presser where he said like, the guys on the sideline told me I went to a dark place. And he was like, I didn't realize it. But he's like, I was back there. I was like not in a good spot mentally. But I really genuinely think it helps to just look around the league and go, all right, that was a wild divisional round. And it was wild for us too. And Tom Brady is inevitable until he isn't.

I want to talk about that final play just a little bit more because Bruce Ariens after the game said that they had decided to blitz Stafford. And Aryan said that it wasn't communicated to everybody on defense. So some players knew that that was the call. Some players didn't resulted in the coverage best. least as Ariens is describing it, Cups said that the overrout that he was running on that call

is just designed to draw coverage so much that he and Stafford nicknamed it the for the love of the game route because you're never going to catch the ball on it and then obviously... It's the clear route route on dagger. It's not real. It's not the progression. It doesn't exist. Well, it was real tonight. Yeah. Awesome.

And the thing that's interesting to me and is so, okay, maybe it wasn't totally communicated to everybody on defense. The decision to Blitz is fascinating because that's what Todd Bulls loves to do, but they came out blitzing super, super heavy. And that was when Stafford was just picking it apart. I get it to a degree. You do what got you there. You do what you love to do.

But blitzing, you're blitzing a quarterback who had 17 touchdowns and one pick against the blitz all season. And so even the call, right? Right? Like whatever confusion went into the bust is its own thing, but the call to me is questionable too. Ben, this Brady thing. It's interesting to me. He was, I mean, at one point, Aaron Donald was on Wells and he just kind of knew how that was going to end. Donovan Smith struggled all game long. I believe the number of pressures that Brady had this week was the most he's had all season. was there anything he could have done to have a better game in the first three quarters this game? No, I mean, they probably got away from the four net targets a little bit early.

He was really, really oriented on gronk targets. You could tell that he knew this is the sort of defense could get chunk gains to the tight end, too, and he's not wrong with that. It's just gronks body's not built for 17, 18, 19 games anymore, man. I mean, every single game after the Godwin injury and the Antonio Brown absence, we were all kind of waiting for the gronk explosion game. to come and it just didn't come. He just looks so slow.

He don't look quick at all. I think that's just, you know, Grunk coming back to play with Brady is understandable and respectable, but it's, it's tough to watch him out there, try to try to move and get to his route. So he's trying to get Gronk down the field. It's just not happening.

So they get back to the four net targets, get the ball out quick, right? They're trying to get Evans involved more in the quick game. If he has Godwin, this is a 15 target Godwin game. I mean, this is where Godwin lives is against defenses like this. And he just don't have them.

And for as much as Tyler Johnson's supposed to have those skills because on the scouting report he does johnson just cannot put it together for whatever reason you can't separate on third downs brady and him are never on the same page and you had no brashad paraman and you had no cyril graysons they were on scotty miller and john brown who they signed like three weeks ago right and they just didn't have the receiver talent body type chemistry combination of the three in order to run the quick passing game they needed to run to really nullify this rush so as i think was expected coming into this game uh if the bucks were to lose it would be the accumulation of so many inconvenient offensive injuries.

That was just too much to overcome. And that's certainly how it felt for two and a half quarters. And then all of a sudden it felt like not, but that really actually was what happened. It was just too many injuries and too many key spots and made it really difficult to execute a game plan. Nora, Tom Brady after the game said he physically felt great, but he said he hadn't put a lot of thought into his future.

It's going to take it a day at a time, see where we're at. He says he's not thinking about anything past five minutes from now. There was buzz this week that may be possible. this could be it from. He's 44 years old. Bruce Ariens is obviously not going to coach forever. Rob Bernkowski's already retired once. He's not going to play forever. Game this out for me. If you're taking bets, you're doing what?

Can I, this is, okay, I'm not betting on this, but I would like to pose, pose an outcome. Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers should switch teams. Just for the experiment? Just to see what it looks like. Go for it. Just try it. You're both, you're both on a team that,

a sometimes persnickety elderly quarterback recently decided to stick with or go to. And one was the sort of blueprint for what Rogers wanted Green Bay to be. Just try switching places. See how it goes. Great idea. Thank you. Would Aaron Rogers want to do that? I guess what Tom Brady wanted to do that?

Remember, remember is Tom Brady? whole thing was that he was upset a little bit how dark it got early in New England. Now he's going to Green Bay. That's a good point. He likes warm weather and boats. He also likes Montana, though. Green Bay, Wisconsin, famously Montana. Hey, there's only one way to find out.

And that's Nora gets both Jason Light and Brian Gutenkunds on a conference call and tries to hash this out. Hey, fellas. Free idea. No, no, better. they both come on an episode of the ringer NFL show and we do it with everybody. What would it take? Who says no?

Okay, honest answer. Do I think he retires? No. I think he is addicted to football. But at some point, I mean, he can't play until he's 60. He just think he'll play until he physically cannot play? Yes.

Hmm. Then? Same question. I think he won't be satisfied going out like that. I think that my experience of Brady is such that he will make it very clear that he does not intend to retire with a big hoopla, with a big swan song season the way that Ben Rothesberger did, and then inevitably backdoor his way into getting one of those. I think it would be very non-Bradie for him to just lose to the Rams in a tough, close game that looked almost like a classic Brady game,

but it's clear the magic's run out, so he just retires. I just, that doesn't seem like Tom. He had a great season. He said, and this, this I very much believe him,

he, he doesn't want to go out playing badly. He'll retire before he's like, totally over the hill, you know, just dragging the shell of himself around the field. He is not there.

He is still an incredible quarterback. Ninkovich said on ESPN, after like week 16, 17, they're like, oh, maybe it would be Brady's last season. And left with, got asked about it and said, Tom's playing really well.

Next question. And I think that that kind of tells you what you need to know is that like, Brady's throwing the ball faster than he ever has, right? Like, it's not like like late stage Peyton where it's like clearly athletically gone, but always still playing well. He's athletically like all he was in terms of a thrower. He led the league in passing attempts, passing yards, and passing touchdowns. He also set a single season record for passing completions.

I don't know why you would retire after having that season, right? It just doesn't, like he cited like, I want to check it with my family. Like my kids are getting older. I want to make sure I treat them right. And like that's the reason. That's awesome. But I don't see a football reason why he would go out at all.

No, seriously, that is the reason why he would retire is because his wife would like him to. But I think they, it seems, you know, this is a total outsider's opinion. It seems like they have found something that works where, you know, Ariens allows for a lot more veteran time off than Belichick does. And he's taking more off season time for himself. and if that works for them and they're enjoying Florida, I don't think that he personally would like to stop playing football. Yeah, I think it's one of those fascinating questions. I mean, there could be a huge seat change to the entire league

or could just be exactly what it was. We went through this last year where we thought there was going to be some great movement in quarterbacks and there just wasn't. So it is the story of next two months. Ben, I hate to nitpick and a win, but Sean McVeigh? I'm very fine nitpicking in a win, especially when it's playoff time and Sean McVeigh hasn't just set the stage. Stephen Ruiz, after a Bengals win yesterday, compared Joe Burroughs future to Andrew Lux within

the first 10 seconds. So we're in nitpicking and wins on the Ringer NFL show. There's nothing better than following up Stephen because Stephen just comes in with heat and I'm just here like, hey, you know, it's a reasonable opinion. This was the greatest game of two quarterbacks ever played. It's like, yeah, that's fine. That's not the craziest thing we've heard this weekend. We can also pick the Blake Bell option, by the way.

He should have kept it. If you're going to be the quarterback on Speedoff. Yeah, that was the problem. Yeah, that was the problem. Okay. Play goal's not great. But you got to tell Blake Bell, listen, this is the only player you're getting all game.

We need a yard. If you pitch this thing before you have died for that yard, you have failed us. And he pitched that thing way too quickly. Regardless. The Patriots used to have a rule that was just only 12 throws the football. And eventually in the playoffs, they went away from it. I'm about to say, very interesting rule to put in the framework of how many times they've tried to throw a touchdown with Jacoby Myers this year.

Regardless, Sean McVeigh. McVeigh hasn't beaten Shanahan since 2018. That feels extremely important. Now, this is the first time he'll get three cracks at him. But if you right now are Los Angeles and two calendar weeks ago, you could have kept the 49ers out of the playoffs if you've handled a 14 point second half lead and you didn't and they took you overtime and then they beat you in overtime and all of a sudden they get to see you back in the NFC championship game and again you have not beaten Shanahan

in three years how do you feel great like you're going to build your game plan awesome you're going to go out there you're going to throw the ball around the yard they got bad corners sick you're going to build a lead and you are not going to feel good about it because Shanahan has fought his way back from those deficits, deficits multiple times this year. He's already done it against you before and you just tried to hand this, this ball, this game away with five turnovers. That's a scary situation to be in. I would hope that they decide to come out and be full flame thrower with Stafford. I would hope that they decide to be spread and shred and make you put as many of these injured corners, these young corners, Josh Norman out on the field, nullify that pass rush by being

super heavy in the quick game. But this is going to be a sweaty, sweaty game for the Rams. They are absolutely the better team in terms of personnel. But man, does Shannon have their number dialed up? He's had it for a while. This, this to me, was the ideal NFC championship game outcome. Once we got to divisional round, it was, man, if we get Niners Rams

part three, that's going to be a hoot and a holler. And here we are. All right, Nora, let's break down next week's game against 49ers. You start where? Yeah, well, I think we start number one, sort of, as Ben just said, are they able to make this a game

where the 49ers situation of cornerback matters. We just saw a game where that didn't really matter. You weren't thinking about it. You weren't talking about it. It wasn't showing up on the field. They have to find a way to do that.

Joe Note Boone filled in really, really, really well on the line. But curious if they will have Whitworth for that because that front is scary. And then McVeigh's got to get over the Shanahan thing, right? Like, Shanahan leads the league

in opposing coach soul stolen this season, it seems like. And that could come back to haunt them. I think it just seems like those guys who he's worked with think of him as someone who can find a way and can outsmart them and it gets in their heads. And I don't know if that's true or if that's just what it seems like, but it's another opportunity to find out. What do you think, Kevin? I think the Rams are going to win.

I think that the Rams, listen, as long as Stafford, and I know this sounds like a good joke, but as long as Stafford doesn't make a catastrophic mistake, which is possible, that is exactly, that is on the table. I think that the way the Rams have built their team

can win a lot of games and can, you know, the way that, Von Miller having a 25% pressure rate today, I know it was beating Donovan Smith and all that stuff, but they just have so much talent, and their talent seems to be peaking. Aside from Jill and Ramsey getting burned by Mike Evans,

that's going to happen over a million routes if it's single coverage, all that stuff. But this seems to all be going to plan, and I think they win, and I think that Stafford just going to play better than Jimmy Groppel. Am I wrong, Ben? I mean, no, Stafford's going to play better than Jimmy. But at this point, all right,

Jimmy's thrown no touchdowns. He's thrown two of the worst timed, placed interceptions ever. He's averaging 6.9 yards per attempt. He's taking four sacks, and liners are two in all in the playoffs. I don't know if there is a floor to Jimmy's game from which Shanahan Rahim Morris can, or not Rehombo, uh, D'Meco Ryans can pick this thing up off the ground, scrape it into some semblance of a football team and eke this thing out.

I want so badly, Jimmy versus Mahomes part two. It would be the funniest thing in the world to run that back in the Super Bowl with the number three overall picks sitting on the sidelines. It would be the greatest storyline ever. Handsome Man Fails Up is undefeated. Never lost, baby. Yeah, it's, I can't really get a read on this game. I will say this.

Sean Payton was on Sunday's Day last year, and he said, beware of the teams that start winning games on the road. And obviously the Rams were on the road today and all that. But those teams start to get ahead of steam, and they start to get a kind of nice. Nobody believes in that's vibe. And also, it's just hard to win road games. And you think about it.

But everybody won road games except the Chiefs. That don't we have to beware of everybody? No, but he was talking about the Bucks last year and going on and winning every single being on the road the entire, the entire playoffs. And just kind of making that a rallying cry a little bit. And that's why he actually picked. He picked the Bucks without picking the Bucs on the show because he said, when you have that mentality, you're extremely, extremely dangerous.

and I'm getting those vibes from the 49ers going into Lambo. I know that Lambo is not the kind of playoff fortress that it's made out to be, but going into winning that game is super, super impressive to me. And I think it's going to be really close. That's my case for the Niners, so they just have that feeling about them. And obviously, they're a tough physical team. I don't want to tackle Debo Samuel. We'll see on the injuries.

I guess Kyle Shannon's going to make announcements on Monday, but George Kittle, obviously. Trent Williams at one point was hobbling around. So there's some huge, huge health questions there, which also kind of trends for me with the Rams. But that's marketing for the Niners. Having said that, I just like the Rams talent. Anything else about this game, guys?

Rams, Bucks? Yeah. What happened? Oh, my God, it's been such a long day. Over the last five minutes, I've fallen off the cliff. Like, I don't even know what world I'm in right now. Oh, man. Well, the Bucks almost came back, and then the Rams.

one because Matt's Matt Stafford's clutch. Also, dude, also shout out Matt Gay. Matt Gay and Harrison Butker, man could have had some real bad days in terms of miskicks and they got their butt saved by their offenses. Shout out special team. Shoutout kickers. Matt Gay Revenge Game. Hey, here's a good question from Brett F.

Soak. I have a 20 to one bet on the Bengals to win the NFC. Cash out, hedge, or let it ride. Generally, hedging is negative EV over the long term, right? you're just introducing more juice in your books. In this instance, having seen what we've seen by the Kansas City Chiefs, I would probably hedge. And that's because I am quite confident in the outcome of the AFC championship game.

But listen, those tickets are always really fun. So if you want to ride, let it ride. That's what makes gambling those long shots a lot of fun. I agree. Guys, this was fun. This was a fun day of football. Ben, you can take five now. Thank you.

I'm going to need 15 probably. days. No, man, I can't. Like, all, it's, it's, these sort of games are so electric, right? Like, I want to, all I want to do is either go to sleep or write like 10,000 words about it. You know what I mean? It's like, I'm on two poles right now. What are you going to do?

I got, there's like five chocolate chip cookies downstairs. That's all I've been thinking about for the last, like, 10 minutes. I'm probably going to go eat all those. And I got leftover chicken. Oh, man, it's going to be a good night. Beautiful. All right. Guys, we'll be back this week.

I'll be back on Wednesday. the player show on Tuesday, Nora and Malware on Thursday. Ben's going to be on the Ringer Gambling show and then the show on Friday with K-1 and Stephen Ruiz. We have a slow news day with one of the most famous people in the sport tomorrow. Hopefully that'll be up on Tuesday. Thank you to Isaiah Blake, the production help, additional productions provision by Arjuna, Ramqqbal.

He's been the Ringar NFL show and the Ringer Podcast Network.